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View Full Version : Champions League: Legia Warsaw ask Celtic for meeting



Humo
10-08-2014, 03:41 PM
Possible rematch but there is no way i could see Celtic agreeing to this as home or away they will get beaten by them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28732601

easty
10-08-2014, 03:43 PM
I wouldn't want Hibs to agree to a rematch if it was us. Why would Celtc? Nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Sylar
10-08-2014, 03:49 PM
I hate that they're getting a reprieve but this is a matter for UEFA and Celtc should ignore any approach from Legia.

Why would they, from a financial point of view, potentially toss away whatever the income is for reaching the group stage of the Europa/Champions League group stage accordingly?

SMAXXA
10-08-2014, 03:54 PM
In the interests of fair play maybe? Probably everything that's wrong with modern day football, the financial benefit for Celtic will rule on this one as that's what things will be based on rather then a perception of integrity and gentlemanly conduct as such.

a simplistic view is they broke the rules so tuff, but looking at the context I think the guy got a couple of minutes and the tie was well and truly over so a view could be that let common sense prevail and play the match again......but it won't.

Dave-O
10-08-2014, 03:58 PM
Celtic have just issued a statement, I must say it's very short......





























































BOLT.......:greengrin

Sylar
10-08-2014, 04:07 PM
In the interests of fair play maybe? Probably everything that's wrong with modern day football, the financial benefit for Celtic will rule on this one as that's what things will be based on rather then a perception of integrity and gentlemanly conduct as such.

a simplistic view is they broke the rules so tuff, but looking at the context I think the guy got a couple of minutes and the tie was well and truly over so a view could be that let common sense prevail and play the match again......but it won't.

Fair play in what sense? Celtc didn't hound UEFA for this decision and it's well within the laws of the game and precedence exists for the punishment. Aye, they've been hammered by a far better team and the 'infraction' they've (Legia) been tossed out for is a joke in my opinion (disproportionate to the crime) but that's not Celtcs problem.

sh00byd00
10-08-2014, 04:07 PM
I don't think they should nor would i expect Hibs to agree to such an offer if we were ever in that position. I know the player made no difference to the score, but rules are rules and as soon as you make concessions for one team, then it opens a whole lot of bother in the future. UEFA should be telling Legia that they won't recognise the game if for some bizarre reason Celtic agreed to play the game. It's between Legia and UEFA to sort out, not for Celtic to decide.

The open letter is an embarrassment.

cabbageandribs1875
10-08-2014, 04:10 PM
I don't think they should nor would i expect Hibs to agree to such an offer if we were ever in that position. I know the player made no difference to the score, but rules are rules and as soon as you make concessions for one team, then it opens a whole lot of bother in the future. UEFA should be telling Legia that they won't recognise the game if for some bizarre reason Celtic agreed to play the game. It's between Legia and UEFA to sort out, not for Celtic to decide.

The open letter is an embarrassment.



indeed :agree:

SMAXXA
10-08-2014, 04:12 PM
Fair play in what sense? Celtc didn't hound UEFA for this decision and it's well within the laws of the game and precedence exists for the punishment. Aye, they've been hammered by a far better team and the 'infraction' they've (Legia) been tossed out for is a joke in my opinion (disproportionate to the crime) but that's not Celtcs problem.

In the sense that the rules are a bit harsh and the punishment IMO doesn't fit the crime. Any rational person can see in a pure football sense it's very harsh and doesn't fit well with me. Agree celtic didn't hound them but similarly they could have taken a view we lost to the better side and an administrative error shouldn't change that.

i know people won't agree but that's how I see it.

lyonhibs
10-08-2014, 04:18 PM
I don't think they should nor would i expect Hibs to agree to such an offer if we were ever in that position. I know the player made no difference to the score, but rules are rules and as soon as you make concessions for one team, then it opens a whole lot of bother in the future. UEFA should be telling Legia that they won't recognise the game if for some bizarre reason Celtic agreed to play the game. It's between Legia and UEFA to sort out, not for Celtic to decide.

The open letter is an embarrassment.

Yup. As soon as anyone resorts to a cringeworthy open letter to get sympathy, my respect for them goes oot the windae

Sylar
10-08-2014, 04:29 PM
In the sense that the rules are a bit harsh and the punishment IMO doesn't fit the crime. Any rational person can see in a pure football sense it's very harsh and doesn't fit well with me. Agree celtic didn't hound them but similarly they could have taken a view we lost to the better side and an administrative error shouldn't change that.

i know people won't agree but that's how I see it.

Don't get me wrong, I love kicking that lot at any given opportunity but they're doing nothing wrong here IMO.

I agree that the rules are a bit harsh and that the punishment is disproportionate - however, that's UEFA's call and any grievance 'neutrals' have here is with UEFA's rules and their application of them with no recourse to consider on a case by case basis.

I find it particularly galling that financial fair play rules and violations of them are met with a subjective assessment and usually a fine, which is a far greater advantage than a 2 minute appearance by a player who didn't even touch the ball.

J-C
10-08-2014, 04:39 PM
i don't think Celtic actually complained about this as they were unaware it had happened, Warsaw put their hands up and admitted their mistake, so why should Cltic even contemplate talking to them, it's in EUFA's hands, let them deal with it.

GreenLake
10-08-2014, 04:40 PM
It is a difficult situation which in the letter of the law Celtic appear to be not to blame and quite right to continue through to the next round. However, due to the complete humiliations in the two games by Legia, the honourable thing to do would be to withdraw admitting they are not worthy to take part in the Champions League. If they do play in the next stage, I hope the commentators refer to them as "the poops" rather than "the hoops". :greengrin

Hibbyradge
10-08-2014, 05:09 PM
If Rory McIlroy goes out and beats the course record in the PGA tonight then forgets to sign his card, he'll be disqualified.

Harsh, for sure, but those are the rules.

Same applies for Legia Warsaw.

The person responsible, Legia's manager?, should be sacked for gross incompetence.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-08-2014, 05:43 PM
In the interests of fair play maybe? Probably everything that's wrong with modern day football, the financial benefit for Celtic will rule on this one as that's what things will be based on rather then a perception of integrity and gentlemanly conduct as such.

a simplistic view is they broke the rules so tuff, but looking at the context I think the guy got a couple of minutes and the tie was well and truly over so a view could be that let common sense prevail and play the match again......but it won't.

Clear your PM's when you get the chance pal.

Sir David Gray
10-08-2014, 05:43 PM
There's no way Celtc will, or should, accept a rematch.

It's up to UEFA to rule on such matters. I personally think Legia have solid grounds for an appeal and it should be taken through the correct channels.

Why would Celtc agree to a rematch against a side that has just beaten them comprehensively twice in the past couple of weeks, when millions of pounds is at stake?

I wouldn't expect any club in Celtc's position to agree to a rematch.

weecounty hibby
10-08-2014, 05:59 PM
But this is Celtic we are talking about. You know the ones who are always on the side of fairness, justice etc. Always fighting for lost causes and always against any kind of authority figures. The ones who hate UEFA. Surely they will stand by their Polish brothers in the fight against an unfair ruling no matter that it is the only punishment possible.
No I thought not

ballengeich
10-08-2014, 06:09 PM
I don't know whether the UEFA rules allow any discretion on the punishment for this kind of offence. If they do then a smaller punishment should be applied. If not, they should be amended.

Legia did get a slight advantage in the previous round as they were able to choose from 25 players instead of 24, but I doubt whether that was of any significance in their win over St Pat's. Personally I think justice would have been served if Legia had been fined and the player ruled out for another couple of games.

southern hibby
11-08-2014, 12:40 PM
As much as it pains me to say this but glad at least one Scottish club has benefitted from a form of cheating ( albeit a mistake ). Most of us on here was dead against Rangers and Hertz getting away with anything. We slated the SFA, the media for not having the backbone to stand up to them.

EUFA has made a decision that shows cheats don't prosper. Maybe now teams will start to understand that if your caught you will pay the consciquencies. GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
11-08-2014, 12:44 PM
As much as it pains me to say this but glad at least one Scottish club has benefitted from a form of cheating ( albeit a mistake ). Most of us on here was dead against Rangers and Hertz getting away with anything. We slated the SFA, the media for not having the backbone to stand up to them.

EUFA has made a decision that shows cheats don't prosper. Maybe now teams will start to understand that if your caught you will pay the consciquencies. GGTTH

I'm dont think LW cheated, they made a dreadful mistake and the punishment does seem extreme, but thats the rules.

HibbySpurs
11-08-2014, 12:48 PM
No chance Celtic would play a re-match.

Simply because they would get hosed again, this time with no reprieve from a rules violation....

And if it was Hibs? We wouldnt do it either.

Keith_M
11-08-2014, 01:12 PM
Firstly, I think Legia have been gven a totally innapropriate punishment for what was a clerical error and one that they genuinely gained no advantage from. I think a fine might have been a better solution.

However, this is really not Celtc's fault. They played no part in this whatsoever and they also have no power to overturn UEFA's
decision.

Trying to appeal their better nature (I don't believe they have one anyway) serves no useful purpose.

southern hibby
11-08-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm dont think LW cheated, they made a dreadful mistake and the punishment does seem extreme, but thats the rules.

Maybe I never came over the way I meant too, but that was my point it was a mistake and they've been well and truly hammered. However the SFA and our media let both Rangers and hertz away with ( pardon the pun ) daylight robbery. Yes The Rangers ended up I'n pour lowest league but that was because teams I'n the SPL never voted them I'n.

If we had a stronger SFA that actually had a backbone we could have had a league that Scottish fans would be proud of.

GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
11-08-2014, 02:11 PM
Maybe I never came over the way I meant too, but that was my point it was a mistake and they've been well and truly hammered. However the SFA and our media let both Rangers and hertz away with ( pardon the pun ) daylight robbery. Yes The Rangers ended up I'n pour lowest league but that was because teams I'n the SPL never voted them I'n.

If we had a stronger SFA that actually had a backbone we could have had a league that Scottish fans would be proud of.

GGTTH

No problem matey, i agree about our beaks. They do seem to have no balls and dont want to apply rules as they should be applied. The one last year when the hearts player had not served his ban was typical of the cowards who run our game, and dont even start me on sevco.

If you break the rules then you have to take the punishment, and the laws are there for all to see. Celtic have just got very lucky, but its not their fault LW cocked up.

--------
11-08-2014, 02:20 PM
In the interests of fair play maybe? Probably everything that's wrong with modern day football, the financial benefit for Celtic will rule on this one as that's what things will be based on rather then a perception of integrity and gentlemanly conduct as such.

a simplistic view is they broke the rules so tuff, but looking at the context I think the guy got a couple of minutes and the tie was well and truly over so a view could be that let common sense prevail and play the match again......but it won't.

That view isn't 'simplistic' at all. 'Simplistic' means 'treating complex issues and problems as if they were much simpler than they really are' as in the phrase 'simplistic solutions'.

It means that whoever's proposing those solutions has substantially missed the point of the problem.

The rules make clear just what a club has to do to register players as eligible to play for that club.

For whatever reason, Legia failed to comply with those rules.

The rules state that the penalty for breaking these rules is to have the match awarded to your opponents with a score of 3-0.

Celtic didn't make those rules up. Nor, as far as I can see, did they seek special treatment from UEFA.

Throw out the rule-book and make decisions according to 'common sense'? Aye, right.

What you mean is, we make up the rules as we go along, according to some vague idea of 'sportsmanship' and 'fair play'. That'll end in chaos, confusion, and a lot of very angry people all through the sport of football.

Whether we like it or not, Legia have fouled up big time, and are going to have to take their medicine. The fact that it's Celtic who benefit is neither here nor there, but one thing I can guarantee - if the same thing ever happens to Hibs, the landslide majority view on this forum won't be for us TO GIVE THE OPPOSITION A SECOND CHANCE THEY DON'T DESERVE.

NORTHERNHIBBY
11-08-2014, 02:20 PM
Rules are rules and that is fair. Hopefully UEFA can come up with equally well defined criteria for sectarianism, racism and simulation, with this kind of stringent punishment.

--------
11-08-2014, 02:21 PM
Rules are rules and that is fair. Hopefully UEFA can come up with equally well defined criteria for sectarianism, racism and simulation, with this kind of stringent punishment.

Indeed. :agree:

GreenLake
11-08-2014, 02:26 PM
No problem matey, i agree about our beaks. They do seem to have no balls and dont want to apply rules as they should be applied. The one last year when the hearts player had not served his ban was typical of the cowards who run our game, and dont even start me on sevco.

If you break the rules then you have to take the punishment, and the laws are there for all to see. Celtic have just got very lucky, but its not their fault LW cocked up.

Remember when Paulo Di Canio caught the ball instead of quite legally scoring when the goalkeeper was down injured? He was not playing by the rules but acting at a higher level in the spirit of fair play. Celtic should have caught the ball here.

blackpoolhibs
11-08-2014, 02:29 PM
Remember when Paulo Di Canio caught the ball instead of quite legally scoring when the goalkeeper was down injured? He was not playing by the rules but acting at a higher level in the spirit of fair play. Celtic should have caught the ball here.

No not for me, Paulo Di Canio also pushed the ref over. :wink:

Nutmegged
11-08-2014, 02:35 PM
Remember when Paulo Di Canio caught the ball instead of quite legally scoring when the goalkeeper was down injured? He was not playing by the rules but acting at a higher level in the spirit of fair play. Celtic should have caught the ball here.

Do you think Paulo would have stopped the game if the ball wasn't at such an awkward height?

you can't compare a player having a potentially serious injury to Celtic taking the wrap just because Legia didn't follow the rules.

Anyway, whose to say that if this guy was included in the squad vs St Pats that would have allowed him to serve his ban that he wouldn't have taken the a squad place of a guy who had a big impact in the St Pats tie

Hibbyradge
11-08-2014, 02:41 PM
In the interests of fair play maybe? Probably everything that's wrong with modern day football, the financial benefit for Celtic will rule on this one as that's what things will be based on rather then a perception of integrity and gentlemanly conduct as such.

a simplistic view is they broke the rules so tuff, but looking at the context I think the guy got a couple of minutes and the tie was well and truly over so a view could be that let common sense prevail and play the match again......but it won't.

I do understand your point of view, but what would happen if the next time, a team fielded a player for, say 8 minutes, and were only winning 4-1. Should that game be replayed?

What if it was only 3-1? What if the player was on for 10 minutes?

The rules would have to change to say that games would be replayed if teams fielded ineligible players for less than X minutes if they were winning by X margin.

I'm not sure if I've made my point very well, but you see what I mean? Where would it stop?

Onion
11-08-2014, 02:44 PM
Really has nothing to do with Celtic now. UEFA could defuse this in a second by declaring any re-match or agreement between C & L as null n void. The issue is between L & UEFA.

But like the idea of Celtic withdrawing due to the hammering they took :) As much chance of that happening as Yams paying their debts.

GreenLake
11-08-2014, 03:04 PM
Do you think Paulo would have stopped the game if the ball wasn't at such an awkward height?

you can't compare a player having a potentially serious injury to Celtic taking the wrap just because Legia didn't follow the rules.

Anyway, whose to say that if this guy was included in the squad vs St Pats that would have allowed him to serve his ban that he wouldn't have taken the a squad place of a guy who had a big impact in the St Pats tie
:faf:

If he could catch the ball I am sure he was tempted to perform an elevated sideways bicycle kick.:greengrin

Scottie
11-08-2014, 03:09 PM
Septic will keep there head down and ignore any notion of replays or meeting's because there is £1.6 million reasons to do so.

They WILL be the laughing stock of the Champions League elite this year not only on the pitch but off it.

Brother in law is a season ticket holder at Darkheid and he is so disgusted he won't be attending any group or latter stages of the CL this year if they get through. I'll remind him of this fact if they get through and have any BIG games. :hahaha:

Hermit Crab
13-08-2014, 10:12 AM
Mate put on Facebook that Celtic being reinstated will be overturned in the next 24hrs. Said his source was a Celtic player.

jgl07
13-08-2014, 11:28 AM
Mate put on Facebook that Celtic being reinstated will be overturned in the next 24hrs. Said his source was a Celtic player.
It must be true then!

What the hell would a Celtic player know about UEFA machinations? Why would he blab about it to all and sundry?

There is an appeal in effect at the moment. If that fails Legia will appeal to the CAS. That is likely to be too late to overturn the results with the playoff rounds starting next week.

Smartie
13-08-2014, 11:36 AM
This is what I hate about football authorities.

Rules are rules and MUST be enforced. The rules MUST be the same for all teams.

If they placed a player who was not registered, there MUST be something in the rules that declare what happens in such a case. No ambiguity whatsoever.

I don't care that the guy was only on the pitch for 4 minutes. If he was ineligible he shouldn't have played. If he did, the tie should be forfeited. No ifs, no buts, no appeals.

It is the weakness of the authorities in situations like this, often out of a misplaced but well-meaning desire to show common-sense that sees teams like Hearts and the old Rangers to take the p**s out of them.

This is not up to Legia or Celtic. UEFA are in charge here.

Hermit Crab
13-08-2014, 11:54 AM
It must be true then!

What the hell would a Celtic player know about UEFA machinations? Why would he blab about it to all and sundry?

There is an appeal in effect at the moment. If that fails Legia will appeal to the CAS. That is likely to be too late to overturn the results with the playoff rounds starting next week.


No no asking you to believe it. If you don't like it don't read it or comment.

Rearrange the following words. Messenger shoot the don't.

Iggy Pope
13-08-2014, 12:35 PM
No not for me, Paulo Di Canio also pushed the ref over. :wink:

:greengrin
He is also a fascist and a self proclaimed football thug.

Keith_M
13-08-2014, 12:43 PM
This is what I hate about football authorities.

Rules are rules and MUST be enforced. The rules MUST be the same for all teams.

If they placed a player who was not registered, there MUST be something in the rules that declare what happens in such a case. No ambiguity whatsoever.

I don't care that the guy was only on the pitch for 4 minutes. If he was ineligible he shouldn't have played. If he did, the tie should be forfeited. No ifs, no buts, no appeals.

It is the weakness of the authorities in situations like this, often out of a misplaced but well-meaning desire to show common-sense that sees teams like Hearts and the old Rangers to take the p**s out of them.

This is not up to Legia or Celtic. UEFA are in charge here.


You missed out one part: Punishment MUST be appropriate for any breaking of aforementioned rules.

marti1875
13-08-2014, 12:57 PM
MY old boy showed me a story in the Daily Rangers that the player was warned beforehand that he may not be eligible to play and that the club knew. It says it could seriously now affect any outcome of any appeal as a keeper has allegedly came out and said all this that they knew and were pre warned about it!........bit it is the Daily Rangers though so who knows......:confused:

Nutmegged
13-08-2014, 01:02 PM
:faf:

If he could catch the ball I am sure he was tempted to perform an elevated sideways bicycle kick.:greengrin

He might have attempted such but in that split second it was far easier to just catch it and be the good guy.

Don't swallow the nonsense that he gave up a certain goal just for fair play, watch it again

SanFranHibs
13-08-2014, 01:11 PM
I do understand your point of view, but what would happen if the next time, a team fielded a player for, say 8 minutes, and were only winning 4-1. Should that game be replayed?

What if it was only 3-1? What if the player was on for 10 minutes?

The rules would have to change to say that games would be replayed if teams fielded ineligible players for less than X minutes if they were winning by X margin.

I'm not sure if I've made my point very well, but you see what I mean? Where would it stop?

It's simple !!! Whichever team we dislike the most gets the raw deal. Or in a more positive spin the team we prefer gets the rub of the green!

:greengrin

cabbageandribs1875
13-08-2014, 08:07 PM
off topic a tad,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28777621

Celtic are "extremely disappointed" after a proposal to introduce safe-standing failed to receive approval from Glasgow City Council.


Bad news for us that would love to have standing back in stadiums again :grr: sitting in freezing cauld grounds during the colder months no ta

HUTCHYHIBBY
14-08-2014, 02:28 PM
Appeal KB'd by UEFA, onto CAS we go. What a pantomime!

Golden Bear
14-08-2014, 02:33 PM
Appeal KB'd by UEFA, onto CAS we go. What a pantomime!

It's common practice to appeal an appeal if the result of original appeal didn't appeal to the appellant.

It's what makes the world go round and keeps the Legal profession from visiting food banks.

Geo_1875
14-08-2014, 02:40 PM
Just thinking if Legia had scored either of the penalties they were awarded in the first leg they'd have gone through. They've nobody to blame but themselves (and their Secretary).

Nutmegged
14-08-2014, 06:27 PM
Just thinking if Legia had scored either of the penalties they were awarded in the first leg they'd have gone through. They've nobody to blame but themselves (and their Secretary).


Thats all a bit simplistic isn't it though, I don't think the result was 4-1 at the time at the time the missed either pen so theres a good chance they still wouldn't have scored more goals

cabbageandribs1875
15-08-2014, 07:20 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28797122


Legia Warsaw have submitted their appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas) after losing their Champions League place to Celtic



i can see the poles getting booted out of the Europa League as well :rolleyes: yer root a toot oot, accept it and move on