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View Full Version : NHC Celtic back in Champions League (merged)



hibee_girl
07-08-2014, 06:41 PM
All over twitter right now

“@ScottishSun: Celtic could land a Champions League lifeline after Legia Warsaw confirmed UEFA investigation into the availability of one of their players”

Onceinawhile
07-08-2014, 06:43 PM
Just read about it. Legia released a statement saying they may have fielded an ineligible player.

HibbyAndy
07-08-2014, 06:46 PM
Aww naw your joking!!!

Hibbyradge
07-08-2014, 06:50 PM
Celtic will be awarded a 2-0 home victory.

Bostonhibby
07-08-2014, 06:52 PM
Cannae see the best fitba fans in the world accepting advancement based on a technicality when they were thumped by 6-1, if it was a close run thing and the offence made a difference perhaps but true fitba people like the best fans in the world will surely know they were thrashed and accept it.

Jonnyboy
07-08-2014, 06:52 PM
Celtic will be awarded a 2-0 home victory.

I sure hope so :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
07-08-2014, 06:54 PM
Celtic will be awarded a 2-0 home victory.

Would be funny as if this was the case. :greengrin

Stranraer
07-08-2014, 06:55 PM
Oh dear. Didn't this happen with FC Thun a few years back?

Bostonhibby
07-08-2014, 06:59 PM
Hang on a minute though, didn't celtc field an ineligible player as well? They have been bleating for ages about Griffiths not being celtc (or simple) minded or whatever it is so this must balance it out surely? They can't have it both ways.

hibs4thecup1988
07-08-2014, 07:13 PM
Surely just a fine would ensue?

3pm
07-08-2014, 07:27 PM
While we were rightly criticised for getting a pasting off Malmo, I take it Celtic getting pumped 6-1 doesn't constitute a national embarrassment?

Bostonhibby
07-08-2014, 07:32 PM
While we were rightly criticised for getting a pasting off Malmo, I take it Celtic getting pumped 6-1 doesn't constitute a national embarrassment?

Is there a difference to the coefficient between a 6-1 and 9-0 defeat? if there is then you can really appreciate what Delila was on about earlier.

Borderhibbie76
07-08-2014, 07:32 PM
While we were rightly criticised for getting a pasting off Malmo, I take it Celtic getting pumped 6-1 doesn't constitute a national embarrassment?
Very good point mate...if anything there result is worse given their resources! !

Ringothedog
07-08-2014, 07:35 PM
While we were rightly criticised for getting a pasting off Malmo, I take it Celtic getting pumped 6-1 doesn't constitute a national embarrassment?

Don't be silly, they could have got pumped 10-1 and it would have been glossed over and turned into a moral victory.

Ronniekirk
07-08-2014, 07:41 PM
Surely just a fine would ensue?
That would be what should happen as it's not as if Celtic Genuinely think that one player made all the difference but precedents have been set so they may get a reprieve . but that won't placate the Fans they know how bad they played in those two legs and they have been embarrassed by it .

ekhibee
07-08-2014, 07:42 PM
It's a difficult one to fathom out really. The player was sent off in some game at the end of last season, they didn't play him in either of the ties against St Pats or the home leg against Celtic. It was a 3 game ban but seemingly there was a problem regarding his registration which means that he wasn't fully registered for the St Pats games. On that basis they are contravening the rules and would forfeit their place in the CL.

easty
07-08-2014, 07:50 PM
If you're a football team competing to get into the champions league you should be well enough run/organised that this just doesn't happen. If they're booted out it's their own fault and I've nae sympathy for them.

Scouse Hibee
07-08-2014, 07:55 PM
If you're a football team competing to get into the champions league you should be well enough run/organised that this just doesn't happen. If they're booted out it's their own fault and I've nae sympathy for them.

:agree: If they broke the rules then they have to accept the appropriate punishment, Celtic should quite rightly benefit despite me not wanting them to :greengrin

Tinribs
07-08-2014, 07:57 PM
If you're a football team competing to get into the champions league you should be well enough run/organised that this just doesn't happen. If they're booted out it's their own fault and I've nae sympathy for them.

idd, but i have no sympathy for Celtic either, and a lot of their fans seem to feel the same. They were reamed, well and truly.
One guy did not destroy them, they were just found wanting in all departments and the right thing for them to do would be to say let the result stand.

ekhibee
07-08-2014, 08:01 PM
Oh dear. Didn't this happen with FC Thun a few years back?
I remember it happening with Stuttgart when they were playing Leeds and sent on a sub that was an ineligible player. They were kicked out and Leeds were beaten comfortably by the team that is now Sevco.

ekhibee
07-08-2014, 08:12 PM
A statement on Legia's official website read: "The club announces that in connection with the Celtic FC-Legia Warsaw match in the second leg of the third qualifying round of the Champions League, UEFA opened an investigation into the participation of Bartosz Bereszynski.
"The club is preparing the relevant information and explanations, which will be sent to UEFA today.
"The result of the investigation will be announced immediately after its completion."

I'm not sure what the 'relevant information and explanations' will amount to, but the result was so conclusive I'm just not sure that they'd let the Smellies in through the back door. By rights Warsaw should be kicked out though.

Baldy Foghorn
07-08-2014, 08:15 PM
idd, but i have no sympathy for Celtic either, and a lot of their fans seem to feel the same. They were reamed, well and truly.
One guy did not destroy them, they were just found wanting in all departments and the right thing for them to do would be to say let the result stand.

Player came on with 4 minutes to go, score at 0-2 (1-6)......Celtic have no morals if they take Legia's place

southsider
07-08-2014, 08:15 PM
If smelik get back i it would just prove the game is crooked to the core.

MyJo
07-08-2014, 08:18 PM
Celtic have no morals.

fixed that for you :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
07-08-2014, 08:20 PM
fixed that for you :greengrin

Aye, that is what I meant Myjo:wink:

DC_Hibs
07-08-2014, 08:35 PM
the boy played 2 mins at 1-6 FFS, they've no chance. (it's a conspiracy)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28693855


"However, in 2010, Uefa fined Debrecen £15,000 but rejected a protest from opponents Litex Lovech, who wanted the Hungarian side kicked out of the tournament for fielding an ineligible player.

Debrecen argued that they fielded Peter Mate in good faith as a substitute in Bulgaria when they were leading 4-1 on aggregate.

Uefa ruled that Debrecen had "no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour".

Ozyhibby
07-08-2014, 08:47 PM
the boy played 2 mins at 1-6 FFS, they've no chance. (it's a conspiracy)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28693855


"However, in 2010, Uefa fined Debrecen £15,000 but rejected a protest from opponents Litex Lovech, who wanted the Hungarian side kicked out of the tournament for fielding an ineligible player.

Debrecen argued that they fielded Peter Mate in good faith as a substitute in Bulgaria when they were leading 4-1 on aggregate.

Uefa ruled that Debrecen had "no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour".

That was an intelligible player. The Warsaw player was banned.

Gordy M
07-08-2014, 09:01 PM
Player came on with 4 minutes to go, score at 0-2 (1-6)......Celtic have no morals if they take Legia's place
Much as i dislike celtic, it really isnt anything to do with them. If legia have broken the rules and get punted out then thats not celtics fault, thats between legia and uefa? If celtic had complained then maybe thats slightly different, but i dont think they have?

SanFranHibs
07-08-2014, 09:02 PM
the boy played 2 mins at 1-6 FFS, they've no chance. (it's a conspiracy)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28693855


"However, in 2010, Uefa fined Debrecen £15,000 but rejected a protest from opponents Litex Lovech, who wanted the Hungarian side kicked out of the tournament for fielding an ineligible player.

Debrecen argued that they fielded Peter Mate in good faith as a substitute in Bulgaria when they were leading 4-1 on aggregate.

Uefa ruled that Debrecen had "no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour".

Yes, but LW definitely had an interest because if they did not play him it might have ended up 1-7. By puting him on they kept the score at 1-6. They have to thrown out for that surely.

Hibbyradge
07-08-2014, 09:03 PM
If smelik get back i it would just prove the game is crooked to the core.

Seriously?

ekhibee
07-08-2014, 09:04 PM
Yes, but LW definitely had an interest because if they did not play him it might have ended up 1-7. By puting him on they kept the score at 1-6. They have to thrown out for that surely.
On Sportsound they were saying that apparently 1 of the options is to award the game to Celtic 3-0 which would take them through. I don't know how they arrive at that though.

blackpoolhibs
07-08-2014, 09:08 PM
I remember Tom Hart wanted Leeds United thrown out after they beat us, because Don Revie was standing with his players on the park during the penalties.

Morals go out the window in football, when there's a chance you can **** over another team. :wink:

GreenLake
07-08-2014, 09:08 PM
On Sportsound they were saying that apparently 1 of the options is to award the game to Celtic 3-0 which would take them through. I don't know how they arrive at that though.

6 - 2 = 4

1 + 3 = 4

4-4 on aggregate, Celtic progress on away goals rule.

magpie1892
07-08-2014, 09:19 PM
Celtic will be awarded a 2-0 home victory.

3-0, and go through on away goals.

bobbyhibs1983
07-08-2014, 09:19 PM
As someone above have mentioned surely the team should know who cna and whom cannot play? its a major screw up if it comes tot ehm getitng punted.

On a side note the thing that sorta borthers me (just a little mind you) is why celtic as champions of scotland are not in the group stages of the CL?

As far as i understand it, every country in europe, The winners of there respective league goes into the CL.

I sense it has soemtihng to do with scotland's international ranking, but surely its not the CL is we do not have the winners of the league from every country

Hibbyradge
07-08-2014, 09:32 PM
3-0, and go through on away goals.

I know this.

My post was a joke.

The_Exile
07-08-2014, 09:42 PM
Doesnae matter if they get another crack at it as they'll get absolutely pummeled again in the next round aswell.

magpie1892
07-08-2014, 09:47 PM
I know this.

My post was a joke.

Hilarious! What venue is your fringe show at?

Northernhibee
07-08-2014, 09:47 PM
Doesnae matter if they get another crack at it as they'll get absolutely pummeled again in the next round aswell.

This. That'd be even funnier.

Sir David Gray
07-08-2014, 09:49 PM
They have no chance of being reinstated.

If found guilty, Legia Warsaw will receive a fine.

They can't possibly throw a club out of a competition for playing someone for the last two minutes of a tie that they were winning 6-1 on aggregate.

Especially when there's a precedent been set for this kind of thing in the past.

3pm
07-08-2014, 11:07 PM
I remember Tom Hart wanted Leeds United thrown out after they beat us, because Don Revie was standing with his players on the park during the penalties.

Morals go out the window in football, when there's a chance you can **** over another team. :wink:

And try and get £20m in the process!

Nutmegged
07-08-2014, 11:34 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/aug/04/newsstory.sport2

just saw in Twitter that an almost identical situation interms of scoreline has happened, precedent set...

I'd not be surprised if Celtic get another bite

lord bunberry
08-08-2014, 12:13 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/aug/04/newsstory.sport2

just saw in Twitter that an almost identical situation interms of scoreline has happened, precedent set...

I'd not be surprised if Celtic get another bite

It's hard to see from reading that why they wouldn't award Celtic a 3-0 victory.

ekhibee
08-08-2014, 12:56 AM
6 - 2 = 4

1 + 3 = 4

4-4 on aggregate, Celtic progress on away goals rule.
I actually meant how did they arrive at the 3-0 scoreline, but I deserve that reply cos I didn't make that clear in the first place!

SMAXXA
08-08-2014, 04:57 AM
This happened in the juniors last season (I know not CL but an example anyhow) a player had signed for Edinburg United who registered him etc but hadn't paid a £30 reinstatement fee from east of Scotland to the juniors. They beat Dunbar 6-2 but when Dunbar reported them they lost the points, all the goals and Dunbar were awarded a 3-0 victory.

suspect celtic will get the tie, lucky *******s.

Hibs07p
08-08-2014, 06:31 AM
UEFA are good at setting precedents, here's another...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/uefa-launch-probe-over-legia-player-eligibility-1-3502882

However, there is a precedent that suggests there is no cut-and-dried policy ensuring that a club guilty of fielding an ineligible player must forfeit the tie. In 2010, Uefa fined Debrecen £15,000 but rejected a protest by opponents Litex Lovech, who argued that the Hungarian side should be kicked out of the tournament.

Debrecen stressed that they had fielded Peter Mate in good faith as a substitute in Bulgaria when they were already leading 4-1 on aggregate. Uefa ruled that Debrecen had “no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour”.

Celtic are out.

GGTTH

Future17
08-08-2014, 06:34 AM
I remember it happening with Stuttgart when they were playing Leeds and sent on a sub that was an ineligible player. They were kicked out and Leeds were beaten comfortably by the team that is now Sevco.

I don't think Stuttgart were kicked out. If memory serves they and Leeds played a 3rd match to decide it which Leeds won 3-0.

Hibbyradge
08-08-2014, 06:42 AM
Hilarious! What venue is your fringe show at?

lol

http://i.imgur.com/Bn3cb.gif

SanFranHibs
08-08-2014, 07:02 AM
If smelik get back i it would just prove the game is crooked to the core.

Maybe not crooked to the core but at the core !!

I do recall and will be corrected if wrong, back in the mists of time Hibs went through to Celtic Park when John collins was still playing for us and we beat them 2 - 1, effectively allowing Hearts into the Uefa at Celtics expense.

Was a great day, sunny, a huge Hibs support, Collins playing well, McStay throwing his jersey into the jungle at games end as it was thought it was his last game for Celtic, Hibs fans singing endlessly and every time the Celtic fans would try and start a song we would burst into 'Always look on the bright side of life'. Was a great day.

My friends and I returned to Edinburgh and went into the Polwarth Tavern and a few Hearts fans burst into 'Hail , Hail, the Hibs are here' because they thought we would lie down at Celtic and Hearts could only get into Europe if we beat Celtic. (Of course a few Hearts fans took exception to ever singing a Hibs song and a bit of a tiff ensued amonst them).

Be that as it may, my point is that the following week UEFA decided to have 3 Scottish teams in Europe thus allowing Celtic in as the third team. I am sure other Hibs fans will recall that game and tell me where my memory has been a victim of historical romance.

However, I am not suggesting UEFA are looking for a way to get Celtic back into the CL. Celtic were mauled and are out and it seems to me there is no chance of UEFA, given the margin of Warsaws victory, reversing it. A fine would be the natural punishment in this situation. In my opinion of course.

The Baldmans Comb
08-08-2014, 07:03 AM
Football is just a magnificently corrupt sport with UEFA the worst offenders.

Play an inelligible subby for the last 4 mins when 6:1 up and you might get chucked from the competition.

Racially abuse the opposition players for 90 mins and you get a 10,000 Euro fine.

s.a.m
08-08-2014, 07:04 AM
I actually meant how did they arrive at the 3-0 scoreline, but I deserve that reply cos I didn't make that clear in the first place!

It's the standard scoreline when a side is awarded a tie against another.

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 07:31 AM
lol

http://i.imgur.com/Bn3cb.gif

That's not bad but only applies if I missed a joke..!

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 07:33 AM
Maybe not crooked to the core but at the core !!

I do recall and will be corrected if wrong, back in the mists of time Hibs went through to Celtic Park when John collins was still playing for us and we beat them 2 - 1, effectively allowing Hearts into the Uefa at Celtics expense.

Was a great day, sunny, a huge Hibs support, Collins playing well, McStay throwing his jersey into the jungle at games end as it was thought it was his last game for Celtic, Hibs fans singing endlessly and every time the Celtic fans would try and start a song we would burst into 'Always look on the bright side of life'. Was a great day.

My friends and I returned to Edinburgh and went into the Polwarth Tavern and a few Hearts fans burst into 'Hail , Hail, the Hibs are here' because they thought we would lie down at Celtic and Hearts could only get into Europe if we beat Celtic. (Of course a few Hearts fans took exception to ever singing a Hibs song and a bit of a tiff ensued amonst them).

Be that as it may, my point is that the following week UEFA decided to have 3 Scottish teams in Europe thus allowing Celtic in as the third team. I am sure other Hibs fans will recall that game and tell me where my memory has been a victim of historical romance.

However, I am not suggesting UEFA are looking for a way to get Celtic back into the CL. Celtic were mauled and are out and it seems to me there is no chance of UEFA, given the margin of Warsaws victory, reversing it. A fine would be the natural punishment in this situation. In my opinion of course.

I remember that game - I had to watch it from the Celtic end for reasons I won't bore you with.

Anyway, what you write all seems reasonable enough but I have a horrible feeling that Legia are stuffed and Celtic will be reinstated.

Bill Milne
08-08-2014, 07:40 AM
I can't begin to imagine the seethe on Sellik forums if Legia are not expelled. I would guess that they are already discussing their play-off round opponents.

lord bunberry
08-08-2014, 07:45 AM
I don't think Stuttgart were kicked out. If memory serves they and Leeds played a 3rd match to decide it which Leeds won 3-0.

They did play a third match, it was at the Nou Camp

Lucius Apuleius
08-08-2014, 07:46 AM
WTF would UEFA, crooked or not, do something with the sole result being celtc reinstated? They might be reinststated but it certainly won't be because UEFA are biased towards celtc.

HibbySpurs
08-08-2014, 07:52 AM
I can't begin to imagine the seethe on Sellik forums if Legia are not expelled. I would guess that they are already discussing their play-off round opponents.

More than likely

HibbySpurs
08-08-2014, 07:59 AM
WTF would UEFA, crooked or not, do something with the sole result being celtc reinstated? They might be reinststated but it certainly won't be because UEFA are biased towards celtc.

I don't think that's what people are getting at though?

No one doubts LW have probably ****ed up here, the point is that the player in question made no significant impact on the tie and only played three minutes or so at the very death of the tie which by then was well beyond Celtic.

Celtic were thrashed 6-1 on aggregate by an obviously superior side and for them to be reinstated would be an affront to sportsmanship given the nature of their defeat.

The punishment should fit the crime and on the basis of the minimal effect this had on the outcome a fine would surely be sufficient?

Had this player come on with ten minutes to go and the tie evenly poised at say 1-1 and he then set up or scored a winning goal then of course the punishment that fits would be forfeit of the tie.

AndyM_1875
08-08-2014, 08:00 AM
I can't begin to imagine the seethe on Sellik forums if Legia are not expelled. I would guess that they are already discussing their play-off round opponents.

It will be marvelous seeing the patronizing twonks greeting about it and I shall thoroughly enjoy it.
Mon the Legia.

blackpoolhibs
08-08-2014, 08:03 AM
And try and get £20m in the process!

Ah the money argument. I'd imagine there would have been a very good amount of dosh had we won that appeal at the time, maybe not £20m but are you saying its ok to have no morals if the amount of money is a smaller amount?

7 Hills
08-08-2014, 08:09 AM
Maybe not crooked to the core but at the core !!

I do recall and will be corrected if wrong, back in the mists of time Hibs went through to Celtic Park when John collins was still playing for us and we beat them 2 - 1, effectively allowing Hearts into the Uefa at Celtics expense.

Was a great day, sunny, a huge Hibs support, Collins playing well, McStay throwing his jersey into the jungle at games end as it was thought it was his last game for Celtic, Hibs fans singing endlessly and every time the Celtic fans would try and start a song we would burst into 'Always look on the bright side of life'. Was a great day.

My friends and I returned to Edinburgh and went into the Polwarth Tavern and a few Hearts fans burst into 'Hail , Hail, the Hibs are here' because they thought we would lie down at Celtic and Hearts could only get into Europe if we beat Celtic. (Of course a few Hearts fans took exception to ever singing a Hibs song and a bit of a tiff ensued amonst them).

Be that as it may, my point is that the following week UEFA decided to have 3 Scottish teams in Europe thus allowing Celtic in as the third team. I am sure other Hibs fans will recall that game and tell me where my memory has been a victim of historical romance.

However, I am not suggesting UEFA are looking for a way to get Celtic back into the CL. Celtic were mauled and are out and it seems to me there is no chance of UEFA, given the margin of Warsaws victory, reversing it. A fine would be the natural punishment in this situation. In my opinion of course.

That was the last game of '91 - '92, the season we won the Skol Cup. Collins was with Celtic by that point, I think though? It also turned out later that the late American comedian, Bill Hicks, had been in the Hibs end at that match with some friends from Edinburgh, although Celtic fans get excited over a photo of him taken outside Celtic Park!

bob12345
08-08-2014, 08:14 AM
I don't think that's what people are getting at though?

No one doubts LW have probably ****ed up here, the point is that the player in question made no significant impact on the tie and only played three minutes or so at the very death of the tie which by then was well beyond Celtic.

Celtic were thrashed 6-1 on aggregate by an obviously superior side and for them to be reinstated would be an affront to sportsmanship given the nature of their defeat.

The punishment should fit the crime and on the basis of the minimal effect this had on the outcome a fine would surely be sufficient?

Had this player come on with ten minutes to go and the tie evenly poised at say 1-1 and he then set up or scored a winning goal then of course the punishment that fits would be forfeit of the tie.

But this means you're trying to bring opinion into a black and white rules matter. The examples you've stated make sense, but it's impossible to define where the border is between trivial and impact.

hibee_girl
08-08-2014, 08:55 AM
Celtic are back in Champions League

hibee_girl
08-08-2014, 08:56 AM
“@STVNews: BREAKING: Celtic reinstated in Champions League play-offs after Legia forfeit http://bit.ly/1oKxDTu”

Tha Cabbage Kid
08-08-2014, 08:56 AM
legia disqualified!!

typical!

DarrenSQH
08-08-2014, 09:02 AM
Celtic are the luckiest team ever.

So so stupid from Legia

Gettin' Auld
08-08-2014, 09:04 AM
Well that sure was an expensive mistake to make..........

A hefty fine and ordering the match to be replayed would have been a fairer outcome. (Especially as the ****ers would have never qualified anyway)

Keith_M
08-08-2014, 09:04 AM
That's a crazy decision for a guy that appeared on the pitch a few minutes before the end of a game where they were winning 6-1.

DaveF
08-08-2014, 09:05 AM
Ridiculously harsh punishment.

flash
08-08-2014, 09:06 AM
That's a crazy decision for a guy that appeared on the pitch a few minutes before the end of a game where they were winning 6-1.

its the correct one though. The crazy decision was made by Legia when they brought him on.

easty
08-08-2014, 09:07 AM
its the correct one though. The crazy decision was made by Legia when they brought him on.

Absolutely. If that was Hibs being booted out a competition for something like that I'd be ******g raging that we'd been so stupid. Basic organisation required to play an eligible team of players.

Stevie Reid
08-08-2014, 09:09 AM
Shocking decision - I know Legia were stupid, but the guy didn't influence the result in any way. Also, given that football's governing bodies never seem to disqualify teams from Europe for much more severe crimes like failing to meet financial fair play rules, racial abuse of players, supporter violence etc, this is ridiculously harsh.

cabbageandribs1875
08-08-2014, 09:10 AM
that's a heck of a lot of money Legia will lose out on now, somebody at the club will get their collar felt i imagine

easty
08-08-2014, 09:13 AM
Shocking decision - I know Legia were stupid, but the guy didn't influence the result in any way. Also, given that football's governing bodies never seem to disqualify teams from Europe for much more severe crimes like failing to meet financial fair play rules, racial abuse of players, supporter violence etc, this is ridiculously harsh.

I (respectfully :greengrin) disagree. In my opinion UEFA will never refuse to let the big teams (PSG, Man City, etc) compete in the Champions League because they've flouted FFP rules, the competition needs the biggest teams in it.

As for the racial abuse and supporter violence things, of course they're horrible, but I think that would be more unfair to kick a team out of a competition because of it. The clubs can't directly control what their fans do, they can directly make sure they run themselves properly, and Legia havent done that.

Off the bar
08-08-2014, 09:14 AM
Shocking decision - I know Legia were stupid, but the guy didn't influence the result in any way. Also, given that football's governing bodies never seem to disqualify teams from Europe for much more severe crimes like failing to meet financial fair play rules, racial abuse of players, supporter violence etc, this is ridiculously harsh.

this

Stevie Reid
08-08-2014, 09:14 AM
See they've been awarded a 3-0 and go through on away goals! Wonder if the 'walkover' result would have been greater had Legia scored one or both of their penalties from the first leg.

dangermouse
08-08-2014, 09:16 AM
With a number of different precedents set, highlighted in this thread, I thought A fine for LW would have sufficed. You'd think by now UEFA would have rules in place and their punishments for these sort of things but looks like they just make it up as they go along. A bit like Scottish Football.

The_Todd
08-08-2014, 09:16 AM
Pretty poor decision.

ScottB
08-08-2014, 09:17 AM
Always mystified as to why this happens, surely UEFA (or whichever governing body for the match) should look over the squad lists submitted for each game pre match, and sign them off or not?

It seems like what's happened here is, Legia didn't 'register' this boy for their first 2 European games, presumably because they knew he couldn't play, and brought him into the squad for this tie, thinking he would be eligible for the second leg. Nice that nobody at UEFA didn't take 30 seconds out of their day to point out their error...

JHFC
08-08-2014, 09:17 AM
is that them in the group stages or is there another game for them to play?

lucky
08-08-2014, 09:18 AM
If Hibs had been on the receiving end of this decision I would be gutted but equally happy if we got one our way. Celtic were awarded a 3-0 win so go through on away goals. It will be worth £280k to every premiership club if they qualify. At the end of the day LW broke the rules and have been punished. This is actually good news for Scottish football

ScottB
08-08-2014, 09:19 AM
is that them in the group stages or is there another game for them to play?

Another round yet, possibly against our old friends Malmo or Maribor

Keith_M
08-08-2014, 09:20 AM
its the correct one though. The crazy decision was made by Legia when they brought him on.

It would be the correct decision to punish them in some way, but that doesn't necessarily mean booting them out of the competition for an ineligible player that made a cameo appearance when the tie was already done and dusted.

Aldo
08-08-2014, 09:20 AM
Another round yet, possibly against our old friends Malmo or Maribor

They've played 3 qualifying rounds have they not. Thought that was them into the group stages.

MyJo
08-08-2014, 09:21 AM
Disgusting. The worst part is that Celtic will take that place and carry on as if they deserve to be in the competition without a single ounce of shame.

Sylar
08-08-2014, 09:21 AM
Staggering decision by UEFA - guy had no influence in the game/score and from what I've read, didn't even touch the ball?

A fine or a replay would have been suitable punishments but to expel Warsaw and put those *******s back in is laughable.

Another £14 million into the Celtc pot and the chance at a group stage windfall...hope whoever they get in the next round rattles them.

JimBHibees
08-08-2014, 09:25 AM
Shocking decision - I know Legia were stupid, but the guy didn't influence the result in any way. Also, given that football's governing bodies never seem to disqualify teams from Europe for much more severe crimes like failing to meet financial fair play rules, racial abuse of players, supporter violence etc, this is ridiculously harsh.

Agree with that particularly your last line. Racial incidents for example are much more common place than they have been for years in European football totally down to the lack of real punishments handed out. Similar to when Rangers were getting threatened with UEFA action the inexcusable songs stopped, now there has been no action they are back as much as ever.

Now they are seeded and at the very least be in the Europa League groups. Incredibly lucky.

JimBHibees
08-08-2014, 09:27 AM
They've played 3 qualifying rounds have they not. Thought that was them into the group stages.

This is the 3rd game coming up. Even if they lose they are definitely into the Groups for Europa league though.

J-C
08-08-2014, 09:31 AM
Too many saying it's a harsh punishment for a guy 2 mins on the pitch, that has nothing to do with it, no matter how long he was on the pitch, the rules were broken, what if he started and had scored the goals that night.

Bishop Hibee
08-08-2014, 09:31 AM
If you actually look at the UEFA rule it is totally unambigious that if you field a suspended player your goosed. Lucky sods though.

Gordy M
08-08-2014, 09:32 AM
Agree with that particularly your last line. Racial incidents for example are much more common place than they have been for years in European football totally down to the lack of real punishments handed out. Similar to when Rangers were getting threatened with UEFA action the inexcusable songs stopped, now there has been no action they are back as much as ever.

Now they are seeded and at the very least be in the Europa League groups. Incredibly lucky.

Im sorry, but it is the correct decision. You cannot play an ineligible player, its as simple as that. What part he has in the game has no bearing on the punishment unfortunately. What if he had scored or missed a great chance, or committed a foul that influenced the game? Where do you draw the line. Its fairly and squarely the fault of Legia Warsaw.

With regards to the crowd violence, racisim etc, its a difficult one. Yes the punishment should be harsher, but again how do you legislate? Ive seen missiles thrown from the hibs crowd in the past? Is that worse than racist abuse? Should the club be deducted 3 points? Not sure there is an easy answer tbh.

Sylar
08-08-2014, 09:35 AM
Too many saying it's a harsh punishment for a guy 2 mins on the pitch, that has nothing to do with it, no matter how long he was on the pitch, the rules were broken, what if he started and had scored the goals that night.

Which would perfectly valid if there were a set punishment for such a crime - it's subjective and carries a range of options from fine to replay to expulsion. Warsaw deserve punishment but in this instance, it's disproportionate IMO.

He was suspended for 3 games, which he served but Warsaw didn't list him on the squad so it didn't count. Seems like a genuine administrative mistake rather than a malicious attempt to bend the rules.

Not the first time these jammy gits have benefited from this either - anyone remember FC Sion?

Cilla Black
08-08-2014, 09:36 AM
So are Celtic in the group stages or are there more qualifying rounds?

Stevie Reid
08-08-2014, 09:37 AM
I (respectfully :greengrin) disagree. In my opinion UEFA will never refuse to let the big teams (PSG, Man City, etc) compete in the Champions League because they've flouted FFP rules, the competition needs the biggest teams in it.

As for the racial abuse and supporter violence things, of course they're horrible, but I think that would be more unfair to kick a team out of a competition because of it. The clubs can't directly control what their fans do, they can directly make sure they run themselves properly, and Legia havent done that.

You make good counterpoints - but I disagree.

But I still think that what was an innocent (yet unbelievably stupid) mistake by Legia is being weighed up as a much more severe crime than the many other horrible things that FIFA and UEFA claim to want eradicated from the game. Clubs have never been able to control their supporters completely, but many (Celtic included) have done various things to try and mitigate the problems such as shutting problem areas down.

Also, I would argue that teams who feel that they are playing in an unsafe environment and/or having players subjected to disgusting abuse from the stands are at a bigger disadvantage and more likely to be adversely affected than a team playing against a side with an ineligible player - especially one who didn't influence the result. I respect your opinion but simply cannot agree that teams being eliminated for those other crimes would be unfair but this case isn't - and if the governing bodies are truly serious about removing these problems from the game, the punishments will have to be severe ones.

I would imagine supporter behaviour (in most cases but not all, as there are some serious fascistic/right wing elements at some teams who obviously use football as an excuse to organise a mob in public) would change if teams were punished severely - likewise I would believe that the biggest teams would play by financial rules if flouting them denied them playing on the biggest stage. Fining teams that have an infinite supply of money and pay players a million pounds a month is insane.

Incidentally, your final point kinda contradicts your first :greengrin Teams flouting financial fair play rules is also a case (arguably a much bigger one) of them failing to run themselves properly - yet they won't be eliminated. Failing to keep your finances in check over a whole year (especially with such strong, constant revenue streams), is a much bigger crime than one administrative oversight.

Carheenlea
08-08-2014, 09:37 AM
If Celtic had any morals whatsoever they would forfeit also. They have been absolutey ripped 6-1 fairly and squarely for 174 minutes of the tie. They truly are desperate and classless.

Lucius Apuleius
08-08-2014, 09:38 AM
I don't think that's what people are getting at though?

No one doubts LW have probably ****ed up here, the point is that the player in question made no significant impact on the tie and only played three minutes or so at the very death of the tie which by then was well beyond Celtic.

Celtic were thrashed 6-1 on aggregate by an obviously superior side and for them to be reinstated would be an affront to sportsmanship given the nature of their defeat.

The punishment should fit the crime and on the basis of the minimal effect this had on the outcome a fine would surely be sufficient?

Had this player come on with ten minutes to go and the tie evenly poised at say 1-1 and he then set up or scored a winning goal then of course the punishment that fits would be forfeit of the tie.

Nope, a comment was that this would just show how crooked UEFA was. UEFA could not give a flying **** about celtc anymore than they do for whoever beat them. You either break a rule or you don't. I do not see any grey issues there. Much as I detest celtc, and believe me my dislike for hertz and the huns are eclipsed when it comes to this shower, they broke the rules and precedent as far as I can see is getting kicked out the competition.

The_Exile
08-08-2014, 09:39 AM
There's another qualifying round to go before the group stages, the draw is, I think, at 11am this morning.

Cilla Black
08-08-2014, 09:44 AM
so could celtic potentially miss out on the europe league if they get another doing?

Sylar
08-08-2014, 09:47 AM
so could celtic potentially miss out on the europe league if they get another doing?

Quite sure they drop straight into the group stages if they go out at the final qualifying hurdle?

No way Celtic will 'do the moral thing' - they stand to gain £14 million + the potential of the windfall for reaching the group stages - as a business decision it's a no-brainer.

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 09:48 AM
If Celtic had any morals whatsoever they would forfeit also. They have been absolutey ripped 6-1 fairly and squarely for 174 minutes of the tie. They truly are desperate and classless.

:agree: celtc class, real class would be a forfeit as you suggest or offer a replay.

danhibees1875
08-08-2014, 09:52 AM
Celtic should forfeit too? Do people actually believe this or do they just like to stick the boot into Celtic?

I hate Celtic as much as the next person, but their opponents broke the rules (whether they gained an advantage is irrelevant) and have been punished.

Would people expect hibs to forego a second chance in cup competition if it were us in the situation?

LancsHibs
08-08-2014, 09:55 AM
Celtic are ****, I despise that mob more than the Huns and our cheating neighbours. Nothing surprises me in football anymore. Total disgrace

greenlex
08-08-2014, 09:56 AM
this is great news for Scottish fitba.:cb

Dashing Bob S
08-08-2014, 09:58 AM
My sympathies are with the fans of Legia Warsaw, but the club is clearly staffed by idiots. Yes, mistakes can happen in life, but player registration should be a straightforward matter, and if you can't get something basic like that right, then you having to question the fitness of the organisation to take part in competitions. Very harsh but ultimately all UEFA can do.

Scotthibs1875
08-08-2014, 09:58 AM
If Celtic had any morals whatsoever they would forfeit also. They have been absolutey ripped 6-1 fairly and squarely for 174 minutes of the tie. They truly are desperate and classless.

It's not Celtic's fault Legia Warsaw fielded an illegible player. It states in the Uefa rules that 'A match is declared a forfeit if a player who has been suspended following a disciplinary decision participates in the match'. If Hibs had managed to get back into the champions league like Celtic have would you be saying the same thing? I doubt it.

NORTHERNHIBBY
08-08-2014, 10:00 AM
No that fussed TBH but it will be funny if they try the global conspiracy stuff after this one.

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 10:03 AM
Celtic should forfeit too? Do people actually believe this or do they just like to stick the boot into Celtic?

I hate Celtic as much as the next person, but their opponents broke the rules (whether they gained an advantage is irrelevant) and have been punished.

Would people expect hibs to forego a second chance in cup competition if it were us in the situation?

Both Dan.

I know football has become a cynical money driven game but if this was Hibs, having been totally hammered 6-1 I would feel better walking about as a Hibby if we had done the sporting thing and I wouldn't be celebrating getting through by default.

Still, to everyone bar the official self proclaimed greatest fans in the world they will carry the smell of this development about with them for a while to come.

SanFranHibs
08-08-2014, 10:04 AM
Bereszynski was sent off against Apollon in the final match of Legia's Europa League campaign last season, earning a three-match suspension. He missed both legs of Legia's tie against St Patrick's in the second qualifying round and also sat out the 4-1 first-leg victory over Celtic.

However, it has emerged that Bereszynski had not been registered in Legia's squad for the second qualifying round, and so the matches did not count towards his suspension.


So it is becasse Warsaw did not know or forgot that they had to register him for a tie (the 2nd qualifying round) even though he was ineligble to play and in which they had no intention of playing him as they knew he was suspended. They then sat him out the first game against Celtic. So they thought they were doing the right thing and he had served his 3 match suspension.

Oh dear....admin job available in Warsaw I think I might apply for.

Has every team that fielded an ineligble player been booted straight out?

Stranraer
08-08-2014, 10:05 AM
Celtic are ****, I despise that mob more than the Huns and our cheating neighbours. Nothing surprises me in football anymore. Total disgrace

May I ask why you despise them more than Sevco and the Yams!? Tuesday proved why I hate the huns more than anyone.

coco22
08-08-2014, 10:05 AM
No big deal. Rules are rules.
It gives us another opportunity to laugh at them getting pumped by another average European team.

danhibees1875
08-08-2014, 10:09 AM
Both Dan.

I know football has become a cynical money driven game but if this was Hibs, having been totally hammered 6-1 I would feel better walking about as a Hibby if we had done the sporting thing and I wouldn't be celebrating getting through by default.

Still, to everyone bar the official self proclaimed greatest fans in the world they will carry the smell of this development about with them for a while to come.

I just can't see it myself BH.

Its not as if Celtic have went scowering through the rulebook trying to find any little thing their opponents done wrong. (Having said that, I don't actually know how the information came to light).

They've just been handed a lifetime which absolutely any club would take, and would be foolishly not too.

lord bunberry
08-08-2014, 10:10 AM
So it is becasse Warsaw did not know or forgot that they had to register him for a tie (the 2nd qualifying round) even though he was ineligble to play and in which they had no intention of playing him as they knew he was suspended. They then sat him out the first game against Celtic. So they thought they were doing the right thing and he had served his 3 match suspension.

Oh dear....admin job available in Warsaw I think I might apply for.

Has every team that fielded an ineligble player been booted straight out?

They didn't get booted straight out, Celtic were awarded the game 3-0 and went through on away goals. 3-0 is the scoreline always awarded in these cases.

Gettin' Auld
08-08-2014, 10:13 AM
Celtic have now been drawn against Maribor.

Moon unit
08-08-2014, 10:15 AM
Brass neck!...

SanFranHibs
08-08-2014, 10:16 AM
May I ask why you despise them more than Sevco and the Yams!? Tuesday proved why I hate the huns more than anyone.

Where the hell is Schrute Farms Morrissey? Honesdale, PA? Can there be more than 1? lol

Don't worry, I aint gonna turn up on your doorstep.

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 10:16 AM
I just can't see it myself BH.

Its not as if Celtic have went scowering through the rulebook trying to find any little thing their opponents done wrong. (Having said that, I don't actually know how the information came to light).

They've just been handed a lifetime which absolutely any club would take, and would be foolishly not too.

:agree: There's rules and there's the spirit of the game etc...........this enhances no ones reputation. I don't expect celtc to do the "big" thing here but I know how it will be seen, and in many respects that is just as enjoyable as they do need to be loved. Cant wait for the draw so I know which teams strip to buy.

silverhibee
08-08-2014, 10:17 AM
I just can't see it myself BH.

Its not as if Celtic have went scowering through the rulebook trying to find any little thing their opponents done wrong. (Having said that, I don't actually know how the information came to light).

They've just been handed a lifetime which absolutely any club would take, and would be foolishly not too.


It seems that the Polish side realised there mistake and tweeted about it straight away, seems they new they had done wrong and maybe by making it public straight away they may have thought they might get a lighter punishment than what they did.
This is not celtcs fault and you can't blame them for taking the place in the next round of the knock out stages.

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 10:18 AM
So it is becasse Warsaw did not know or forgot that they had to register him for a tie (the 2nd qualifying round) even though he was ineligble to play and in which they had no intention of playing him as they knew he was suspended. They then sat him out the first game against Celtic. So they thought they were doing the right thing and he had served his 3 match suspension.

Oh dear....admin job available in Warsaw I think I might apply for.

Has every team that fielded an ineligble player been booted straight out?

The Legia staff and some of their players were right in front of the press area. At full time, they went mental and some nearby Celtic fans (repeat: NOT 'Declans') were up at the stewards, pointing at the LW personnel's celebrations and pitching for them to be thrown out for being provocative.

Sticks in the craw that those same Celtic fans' team are back in the competition they were royally shafted in over the two legs after running to daddy because their opponents had the temerity to celebrate.

The answer to your question: no.

Gettin' Auld
08-08-2014, 10:18 AM
:agree: There's rules and there's the spirit of the game etc...........this enhances no ones reputation. I don't expect celtc to do the "big" thing here but I know how it will be seen, and in many respects that is just as enjoyable as they do need to be loved. Cant wait for the draw so I know which teams strip to buy.

It's Maribor. :greengrin

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 10:18 AM
Celtic have now been drawn against Maribor.

Mon the Maribor, always liked them, soon to become everyones second team.

danhibees1875
08-08-2014, 10:19 AM
:agree: There's rules and there's the spirit of the game etc...........this enhances no ones reputation. I don't expect celtc to do the "big" thing here but I know how it will be seen, and in many respects that is just as enjoyable as they do need to be loved. Cant wait for the draw so I know which teams strip to buy.
:greengrin

Hope they enjoy the accolade of being pumped out of a tournament in two consecutive qualifying rounds!

JimBHibees
08-08-2014, 10:19 AM
so could celtic potentially miss out on the europe league if they get another doing?

No straight into the Group stages of Europa League if they lose against Maribor.

danhibees1875
08-08-2014, 10:21 AM
It seems that the Polish side realised there mistake and tweeted about it straight away, seems they new they had done wrong and maybe by making it public straight away they may have thought they might get a lighter punishment than what they did.
This is not celtcs fault and you can't blame them for taking the place in the next round of the knock out stages.
Thanks silver.

Credit to them for that. :agree: I do feel sorry for them.

Gettin' Auld
08-08-2014, 10:21 AM
Legia apparently plan to appeal the decision.........

http://asia.eurosport.com/football/champions-league/2012-2013/celtic-to-face-maribor-after-legia-warsaw-kicked-out_sto4351906/story.shtml

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 10:30 AM
Legia apparently plan to appeal the decision.........

http://asia.eurosport.com/football/champions-league/2012-2013/celtic-to-face-maribor-after-legia-warsaw-kicked-out_sto4351906/story.shtml

Not a prayer. Sign up to UEFA and leave your legal rights at the door.

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 10:32 AM
Not a prayer. Sign up to UEFA and leave your legal rights at the door.

And you morality round the back, next to the brown envelopes:wink:.

Bishop Hibee
08-08-2014, 10:48 AM
Not a prayer. Sign up to UEFA and leave your legal rights at the door.

People on here have moaned when the SFA/SPFL rules have been ambigious. UEFA's rule on this is unambigious. I hope Celtc get pumped but from amateur pub leagues upwards, the rules have to be enforced.

neil7908
08-08-2014, 10:53 AM
Cant believe how lucky they are! Not there fault Legia fielded a suspended player but I think the fact he came on with 2 minutes to go when the tie was well and truly over means its a harsh punishment.

A good draw for them as well although still think they'll get put out.

TowerHibs
08-08-2014, 10:57 AM
A lot of hypocrisy going on here. Yes they are lucky but the rules are clear on this one for UEFA and players who are suspended.

Whe there its 2 mins or 90 mins doesn't make a difference (or at least that's what my Mrs keeps reassuring me with).

We would be up in arms if a team had done this against Hibs. This is what the suits get paid for and the is LW mistake, not Celtic or UEFA. Celtic are lucky but we need our teams to do well in Europe or it makes it twice as hard for everyone else

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 11:07 AM
People on here have moaned when the SFA/SPFL rules have been ambigious. UEFA's rule on this is unambigious. I hope Celtc get pumped but from amateur pub leagues upwards, the rules have to be enforced.

Like I said, the proposed appeal has no chance of success.

WeeRussell
08-08-2014, 11:20 AM
A lot of hypocrisy going on here. Yes they are lucky but the rules are clear on this one for UEFA and players who are suspended.

Whe there its 2 mins or 90 mins doesn't make a difference (or at least that's what my Mrs keeps reassuring me with).

We would be up in arms if a team had done this against Hibs. This is what the suits get paid for and the is LW mistake, not Celtic or UEFA. Celtic are lucky but we need our teams to do well in Europe or it makes it twice as hard for everyone else

Agree with all of this bar the part that hints that you would like to see Celtic do well in the competition.

Rules are rules and, as annoying as it is in this case, they should stand.

3pm
08-08-2014, 11:23 AM
Ah the money argument. I'd imagine there would have been a very good amount of dosh had we won that appeal at the time, maybe not £20m but are you saying its ok to have no morals if the amount of money is a smaller amount?

Not at all. I think we are saying the same thing, No morals.

My point was more in relation to Celtic than Hibs a few years back.

HibbyCal
08-08-2014, 11:26 AM
Too many saying it's a harsh punishment for a guy 2 mins on the pitch, that has nothing to do with it, no matter how long he was on the pitch, the rules were broken, what if he started and had scored the goals that night.

But he didn't. He didn't influence the score in any way.

Personally, if it was Hibs in this case I wouldn't be complaining, however it is extremely harsh.

Just get to sit and watch Celtic get pumped off a team at a better standard than 10th in a Polish league!

3pm
08-08-2014, 11:29 AM
Maribor will tuck Celtic away.

Jim_in_Canada
08-08-2014, 11:31 AM
4-1 down after the first leg - must be the best comeback since Hibs v Napoli !

What a joke decision!

TRC
08-08-2014, 11:31 AM
If this had happened say vs man utd, no chance Celtic would have been put through. I'd say its all down to money and they know they can sell more matches with Celtic in it than legia

Book of Kamberi
08-08-2014, 11:41 AM
That was the last game of '91 - '92, the season we won the Skol Cup. Collins was with Celtic by that point, I think though? It also turned out later that the late American comedian, Bill Hicks, had been in the Hibs end at that match with some friends from Edinburgh, although Celtic fans get excited over a photo of him taken outside Celtic Park!

Not just our strip and players but our dead celebrity fans. The shame!

Half Pint
08-08-2014, 11:45 AM
If Celtic had any morals whatsoever they would forfeit also. They have been absolutey ripped 6-1 fairly and squarely for 174 minutes of the tie. They truly are desperate and classless.

:agree: How embarrassing for everyone connected with them. Pumped 6-1 fairly and squarely

They would never ever forfeit this opportunity due to the financial gains involved

BH Hibs
08-08-2014, 11:49 AM
Good news betting wise I had a tenner on Legia at fours. Hopefully Maribor will be priced up around the same. Also could they be the first team to be papped out of Europe 3 times in one season? :wink:

sidjames
08-08-2014, 11:52 AM
Thing is the guy actually sat out his 3 game ban. The club failed to do the paperwork. Ouch.

BarneyK
08-08-2014, 11:59 AM
Thing is the guy actually sat out his 3 game ban. The club failed to do the paperwork. Ouch.

That's what I thought. So they are done on a point of beaurocracy?

scoopyboy
08-08-2014, 12:10 PM
But he didn't. He didn't influence the score in any way.

Personally, if it was Hibs in this case I wouldn't be complaining, however it is extremely harsh.

Just get to sit and watch Celtic get pumped off a team at a better standard than 10th in a Polish league!

Ok then how many minutes does a player have to play to influence the score?

2 minutes no, what about 10 minutes, what about 30 minutes?

What if he played the whole of the second leg as a striker but didn't score?

What if he was sent off for a professional foul after 10 minutes of the first leg?

Bottom line is he either played or didn't play. He played therefore it has no bearing how long or what he did in that time.

Do you expect UEFA to say aye its ok to play a protest for x minutes but it isn't ok for them to play any longer than that?

SteveHFC
08-08-2014, 12:11 PM
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=272235&st=300 :faf:

Haymaker
08-08-2014, 12:20 PM
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=272235&st=300 :faf:

Seething.

Still. **** celtc

givescotlandfreedom
08-08-2014, 12:23 PM
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=272235&st=300 :faf:

Funny to see The The Huns raging about fair play and justice. Sort of like Hearts fans taking the moral high ground over loitering in toilets or nicking off charities.

sidjames
08-08-2014, 12:25 PM
That's what I thought. So they are done on a point of beaurocracy?

Indeed. Boy served ban but authorities not notified.

GreenLake
08-08-2014, 12:26 PM
This is low.

HibbyCal
08-08-2014, 12:38 PM
Ok then how many minutes does a player have to play to influence the score?

2 minutes no, what about 10 minutes, what about 30 minutes?

What if he played the whole of the second leg as a striker but didn't score?

What if he was sent off for a professional foul after 10 minutes of the first leg?

Bottom line is he either played or didn't play. He played therefore it has no bearing how long or what he did in that time.

Do you expect UEFA to say aye its ok to play a protest for x minutes but it isn't ok for them to play any longer than that?

Well no cause starting from the start has an influence on the score. You were on the pitch when the goals were scored. Even if he had no physical assistance in scoring the goals, his presence would potentially be helping create the opportunity to score.

I think for somebody playing for 2 minutes when the game was over, it is extremely harsh. But hold on the now while I change my mind and celebrate Celtic's 'success' and see it as a fair punishment.

--------
08-08-2014, 01:10 PM
A lot of hypocrisy going on here. Yes they are lucky but the rules are clear on this one for UEFA and players who are suspended.

Whe there its 2 mins or 90 mins doesn't make a difference (or at least that's what my Mrs keeps reassuring me with).

We would be up in arms if a team had done this against Hibs. This is what the suits get paid for and the is LW mistake, not Celtic or UEFA. Celtic are lucky but we need our teams to do well in Europe or it makes it twice as hard for everyone else


That's what I thought. So they are done on a point of beaurocracy?


Not bureaucracy. (sp)

Like TowerHibs says in his post, the rules are clear. Legia failed to register the player as a member of their squad for the second leg of the tie.

They brought him on with a couple of minutes remaining, presumably to run the clock down - in other words, waste time.

He wasn't registered to play.

This is illegal - penalty, a 3-0 win to the other team, which in this case, means Celtic go through on away goals.

UEFA quite rightly have applied the rules.

If Hibs had been in Celtic's position, we would expect the rules to be applied.

All the bleating about how Celtic should "offer a replay" or "show more class than accept the lifeline" is so much horsefeathers.

The rule about player registration is to prevent clubs fielding "ringers" - players borrowed from other clubs just for the occasion. It's also to prevent the scenario where a team transfers in a player right before a major game in order to gain an advantage.

Legia screwed up big time. Tough. Celtic are perfectly entitled to accept the second chance they've been offered.

If it had turned out that Hamilton had fielded an ineligible sustitute for the last couple of minutes of added time in the playoff, even supposing that player hadn't come anywhere near taking one of their penalties, do you think we would just have shrugged our collective shoulders and said, "Naw, we'll say nothing. We'll just accept relegation 'cos that's the 'Hibs class' way we do things at ER"?

Aye, right. We'd have been screaming for JUSTICE. And rightly so.

scoopyboy
08-08-2014, 01:26 PM
Well no cause starting from the start has an influence on the score. You were on the pitch when the goals were scored. Even if he had no physical assistance in scoring the goals, his presence would potentially be helping create the opportunity to score.

I think for somebody playing for 2 minutes when the game was over, it is extremely harsh. But hold on the now while I change my mind and celebrate Celtic's 'success' and see it as a fair punishment.

You've not answered the question.

How long is it acceptable to play a protest for?

The_Exile
08-08-2014, 01:49 PM
Genius from the Daily Mash, as per usual :greengrin

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/celtic-award-bull****-goals-to-fictional-player-2014080889421


CELTIC has invented a fictional hero to take credit for the three goals it never scored.
The club was awarded a completely made-up 3-0 Champions League qualifying victory over Legia Warsaw after the Polish team accidentally fielded an invincible football robot for two minutes of injury time.
Now the Glasgow club has honoured the achievement by awarding the goals to the fictional attacking midfielder, Declan Sanchez.
A club spokesman said: “Declan is a working class boy from Galway whose grandfather was an Argentinian human rights activist and a close friend of Che Guevara.
“Declan joined Celtic at the age of seven after being spotted by Kenny Dalglish, adopted by Charlie Nicholas and trained by Henrik Larsson. When he is not creating and scoring magnificent goals he writes poetry about imperialist oppression.
“And he has the voice of an angel.”

Scouse Hibee
08-08-2014, 01:57 PM
Fair play to Celtic for accepting their reinstatement rather than bottling it and forfeiting the tie!

HibbyCal
08-08-2014, 02:11 PM
You've not answered the question.

How long is it acceptable to play a protest for?

I'd say it's pointless having a set time, I would though expect to see some common sense used.

Do you think that 2 minutes of time justifies Celtic going through?

superfurryhibby
08-08-2014, 02:12 PM
Fair play to Celtic for accepting their reinstatement rather than bottling it and forfeiting the tie!

Remarkable fortitude, magnanimity and indefatigability even!

Ross4356
08-08-2014, 02:27 PM
If Celtic had any morals whatsoever they would forfeit also. They have been absolutey ripped 6-1 fairly and squarely for 174 minutes of the tie. They truly are desperate and classless.

If you think we would do this, you're a dreamer

Ross4356
08-08-2014, 02:28 PM
Quite sure they drop straight into the group stages if they go out at the final qualifying hurdle?

No way Celtic will 'do the moral thing' - they stand to gain £14 million + the potential of the windfall for reaching the group stages - as a business decision it's a no-brainer.

What is the £14m for?

heretoday
08-08-2014, 02:31 PM
If you think we would do this, you're a dreamer
Exactly. Why the hell should they?

greenlex
08-08-2014, 02:41 PM
If Celtic get through to the group stages do Hibs stand to get a wad of dosh as in years go by?

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 03:05 PM
Genius from the Daily Mash, as per usual :greengrin

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/celtic-award-bull****-goals-to-fictional-player-2014080889421


CELTIC has invented a fictional hero to take credit for the three goals it never scored.
The club was awarded a completely made-up 3-0 Champions League qualifying victory over Legia Warsaw after the Polish team accidentally fielded an invincible football robot for two minutes of injury time.
Now the Glasgow club has honoured the achievement by awarding the goals to the fictional attacking midfielder, Declan Sanchez.
A club spokesman said: “Declan is a working class boy from Galway whose grandfather was an Argentinian human rights activist and a close friend of Che Guevara.
“Declan joined Celtic at the age of seven after being spotted by Kenny Dalglish, adopted by Charlie Nicholas and trained by Henrik Larsson. When he is not creating and scoring magnificent goals he writes poetry about imperialist oppression.
“And he has the voice of an angel.”

Upset at their use of the word 'Declan' there. That's racist.

--------
08-08-2014, 03:14 PM
Upset at their use of the word 'Declan' there. That's racist.

You serious? :rolleyes:

Ross4356
08-08-2014, 03:17 PM
Upset at their use of the word 'Declan' there. That's racist.

Surely trolling

southsider
08-08-2014, 03:30 PM
Are the Polish side not going to appeal this ? Many, many teams have broken the rules with a much less harsh punishment. Do you really think Real Madrid or Manchester United would have been given a 0-3 defeat. No chance, the whole thing is run by crooks. Barca are on a transfer embargo.... but they can sign players until their appeal is heard. Some embargo as they have just made £100m worth of signings.

The_Exile
08-08-2014, 03:30 PM
Nightmare scenario, what do I now call my cousin Declan? Dec? Deccy? Decarooney? :paranoid:

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 03:42 PM
You serious? :rolleyes:

Of course not! I got pulled up for using the word 'Declans' on another thread ('Griffiths')...

p.s. you defended me on said thread?!

magpie1892
08-08-2014, 03:43 PM
Surely trolling

Not guilty. See above. Being told use of 'Declans' to describe Celtic fans is 'racist'... now that's trolling!

HibbySpurs
08-08-2014, 03:48 PM
Nope, a comment was that this would just show how crooked UEFA was. UEFA could not give a flying **** about celtc anymore than they do for whoever beat them. You either break a rule or you don't. I do not see any grey issues there. Much as I detest celtc, and believe me my dislike for hertz and the huns are eclipsed when it comes to this shower, they broke the rules and precedent as far as I can see is getting kicked out the competition.

Rules are rules and if the rule is clear in the book then obviously the correct decision has been taken.

I dont for a second think UEFA are having any sort of love in with Celtic.

Sometimes though rules are unduly harsh and a bit of interpretation should be allowed, wouldnt you agree?

Having said that it is sometimes better to live in a black and white world......

emerald green
08-08-2014, 04:04 PM
I seem to recall an awful lot of talk, not so long ago, about "sporting integrity" in connection with the punishment that had to be given to Rangers FC, as they were then known.

I know "rules are rules" (lol) but if Celtic FC had any "sporting integrity", on this occasion I think they should decline, and offer the place in the next round to Legia. They would come up in my estimation if they did so, but I don't suppose there's a hope in hell of that happening.

Weststandwanab
08-08-2014, 04:06 PM
More chance of me being Pope tonight

marinello59
08-08-2014, 04:11 PM
I seem to recall an awful lot of talk, not so long ago, about "sporting integrity" in connection with the punishment that had to be given to Rangers FC, as they were then known.

I know "rules are rules" (lol) but if Celtic FC had any "sporting integrity", on this occasion I think they should decline, and offer the place in the next round to Legia. They would come up in my estimation if they did so, but I don't suppose there's a hope in hell of that happening.

I take it then that you were just as sympathetic towards Hearts over the Danny Wilson affair.

Jim44
08-08-2014, 04:24 PM
Spawny barstewards they may be, but let's face it, they didn't cause or instigate the issue. Look on a wee positive off-shoot. Anything that really upsets one half of the Old Firm can't be bad.

emerald green
08-08-2014, 04:25 PM
I take it then that you were just as sympathetic towards Hearts over the Danny Wilson affair.

Sorry, but can you remind me what that was about please?

Canongatehibs
08-08-2014, 04:33 PM
Spawny barstewards they may be, but let's face it, they didn't cause or instigate the issue. Look on a wee positive off-shoot. Anything that really upsets one half of the Old Firm can't be bad.

Aye, can think of one or two huns fans who'll be mightily miffed :-)

scoopyboy
08-08-2014, 04:36 PM
I'd say it's pointless having a set time, I would though expect to see some common sense used.

Do you think that 2 minutes of time justifies Celtic going through?

You have to have rules.

Of course I think it is mental that Legia Warsaw lose out because they brought a protest on for two minutes, but they did it nevertheless.

You are completely missing the point I am trying to get across to you.

What I am trying to say is if you let a team to break the rules for two minutes where does it end?

You either allow teams to play ineligible players or you don't. Common sense says therefore it is easier to state any club that plays an ineligible player forfeits the tie.

You cannot possibly expect a delegation to sit in a committee meeting to determine whether a player has had a major effect on a tie or not.

The fact that it is Celtic shouldn't come into it, even although it sticks in the throat.

iwasthere1972
08-08-2014, 04:41 PM
Oscar Pistorius has been in touch with Celtic to find out who their solicitor is after hearing that they won their case to be reinstated to the Champions League after losing two legs.

woodythehibee
08-08-2014, 04:54 PM
Oscar Pistorius has been in touch with Celtic to find out who their solicitor is after hearing that they won their case to be reinstated to the Champions League after losing two legs.

After having 4 shots...

iwasthere1972
08-08-2014, 04:55 PM
After having 4 shots...

:greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
08-08-2014, 05:01 PM
If it had been a near run thing the punishment would have been acceptable, but rules or not this seems very harsh. Sellik got creamed over the 2 legs, they should be embarrassed to go through like this.

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2014, 05:16 PM
Breaking news! Oscar Pistorius has just sacked his legal team and hired Celtics after hearing you can lose both legs and still win.

Bugger, too late!

Eyrie
08-08-2014, 06:01 PM
Shocking decision given that the player concerned had already missed the three games required and that there is a precedent (Debrecen).

The Septic fan at work had the good grace to be embarrassed by their reinstatement and took it well when I told him that Lawwell plans to appeal UEFA's decision to avoid having to spend big money buying eleven new players to make them competitive for the next round.

CelticEnd
08-08-2014, 06:51 PM
Shocking decision given that the player concerned had already missed the three games required and that there is a precedent (Debrecen).

The Septic fan at work had the good grace to be embarrassed by their reinstatement and took it well when I told him that Lawwell plans to appeal UEFA's decision to avoid having to spend big money buying eleven new players to make them competitive for the next round.

Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.

marinello59
08-08-2014, 07:34 PM
Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.

Hopefully Maribor provide that by absolutely horsing you over both legs.

iwasthere1972
08-08-2014, 07:38 PM
Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.

What would your feelings had been had it been the other way around?

I don't know about you but I'm pretty certain that the Celtic team and management will be feeling pretty embarrassed. I know rules are rules but when you get hammered 6-1 it puts a different complexion on things.

tamig
08-08-2014, 07:43 PM
What would your feelings had been had it been the other way around?

I don't know about you but I'm pretty certain that the Celtic team and management will be feeling pretty embarrassed. I know rules are rules but when you get hammered 6-1 it puts a different complexion on things.
Pretty sure if it had happened after Malmo last season we'd have gladly been booking our seats to Swansea. Good bit of hypocrisy on this thread.

SanFranHibs
08-08-2014, 07:58 PM
Pretty sure if it had happened after Malmo last season we'd have gladly been booking our seats to Swansea. Good bit of hypocrisy on this thread.

Would have been for us as it is for Celtic, Victory without Honour.

However, if we or they even tried to refuse such good fortune however undeserved then it probably would be in breach of some rule and result in expulsion from all UEFA competitions this year. Don't know for certain if that would happen but I imagine UEFA would be most displeased if Celtic or anyone else refused to continue in the CL. And even if Celtic were to throw themselves upon their sword technically Warsaw would still be out as they broke a rule which prevents their continued participation.

So, as embarrassing as it is for Celtic they have to accept their re-instatement and we can only hope that this episode is a lesson to all teams in the future, especially Hearts as they are so close to fulfilling their promise of CL glory within five years.

iwasthere1972
08-08-2014, 07:59 PM
Pretty sure if it had happened after Malmo last season we'd have gladly been booking our seats to Swansea. Good bit of hypocrisy on this thread.

Still think we would be embarrassed in getting through after getting thrashed. :agree:

Blocks Biloxi
08-08-2014, 08:22 PM
Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.

Surely it's way harder for Polish teams to get legible players on the team sheet though?

Sir David Gray
08-08-2014, 08:32 PM
Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.

Is that like the sign that the Green Brigade brought along to Easter Road a few years ago?

CELTC. :greengrin

emerald green
08-08-2014, 08:40 PM
I take it then that you were just as sympathetic towards Hearts over the Danny Wilson affair.


Sorry, but can you remind me what that was about please?

Just thought I should add that my only sympathies lie with Legia Warsaw in this matter.

It goes without saying Rangers got what they deserved, and I would never be sympathetic towards Hearts. Ever.

Bostonhibby
08-08-2014, 08:58 PM
Is that like the sign that the Green Brigade brought along to Easter Road a few years ago?

CELTC. :greengrin

:greengrin

This one?

CELTC - semi littrit since 1888

13231

Eyrie
08-08-2014, 10:31 PM
Debrecen is a red herring.

There is a totally different rule between playing an illegible player and playing a suspended player.

The precedent is there with Sweden U21's, Maccabi etc who recorded comfortable wins only to forefit having played a guy who was suspended.

Bizarre that people in the media who supposedly know what they're talking about keep bringing up Debrecen.

Anyway it's not the way anyone wants to go through but you can only comply with the rules of the tournament and we have been given a second chance.

I don't see that Celtic have done anything wrong at all and therefore can see no reason why their should be any embarrassment.
Usual self-justifying crap from The Most Paranoid Fans In The World.

If it had been the other way round you'd have been squealing that the suspended player had missed three games and only featured for a couple of minutes at the end of a tie which was already a foregone conclusion, and you'd be right. There is a clear difference between a player who has not missed the requisite number of games and one who has.

As regards embarrassment, a reminder of the aggregate scoreline should suffice.

Radium
10-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Legia owner on SSN. Has been trying to contact Celtic to get support for their appeal ... he hasn't been able to speak to anyone though ... States they will take it all the way to the Court of Arbitration

Future17
10-08-2014, 02:06 PM
Legia have issued an open letter to Celtc requesting a playoff to decide who goes through. I can only imagine the noise of the laughter echoing through the corridors of Parkhead...