Rankers share issue plan falls short of £10m target

[MurrayfieldHibs]

I hope Leann left greyskull with a cheque last night. Wouldn't trust this mob with credit......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28678687

[Col2]

I hope Leann left greyskull with a cheque last night. Wouldn't trust this mob with credit......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28678687

Squeaky bum time again for the new club.

Does anyone know how many points they will lose if/when they go into administration? Even if they get a few points ahead of us there is always the chance this could happen mid season.

[Sylar]

Squeaky bum time again for the new club.

Does anyone know how many points they will lose if/when they go into administration? Even if they get a few points ahead of us there is always the chance this could happen mid season.

As a second offense in such a short space of time, I don't think it's a standard punishment - we've seen Dundee docked 25 points, whereas Livingston were dumped back into the third division.

Given this combined with the lack of ST renewals, their board must be worried. Wonder how long it'll be til they pawn off Murray Park?

[CropleyWasGod]

Squeaky bum time again for the new club.

Does anyone know how many points they will lose if/when they go into administration? Even if they get a few points ahead of us there is always the chance this could happen mid season.


As a second offense in such a short space of time, I don't think it's a standard punishment - we've seen Dundee docked 25 points, whereas Livingston were dumped back into the third division.

Given this combined with the lack of ST renewals, their board must be worried. Wonder how long it'll be til they pawn off Murray Park?

Definitely 25.

Was standardised after TRFC went into admin first time round.

[Sylar]

Definitely 25.

Was standardised after TRFC went into admin first time round.

Cheers CWG.

I wasn't aware it had since been agreed upon though it makes sense given the merger of the SPL and SFL bodies.

[DaveF]

Nobody would miss those moron's so a step back to Div3 or oblivion is fine with me.

[MurrayfieldHibs]

Given the behaviour of their "fans" at the game yesterday would we really be sad to see them go bust :hmmm:

And having walked through Rosburn park on the way home I can't say I am too impressed with their green counterparts either.

[bingo70]

Definitely 25.

Was standardised after TRFC went into admin first time round.

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?

[J-C]

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?

Now there's a good point.

[Keith_M]

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?


They have two choices:

1) Stick to their current line that they are the same club and get a 25 point deduction

2) Decide they are a new club after all, thereby discarding the previous claim to over 140 years of history and to the trophies won, to get a 10 point deduction instead.


Dontcha just love it :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

judging by empty seats last night they may be dwindling in their capacity to fool their fans ongoing with promises of Jam tomorrow

[s.a.m]

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?

I don't know the answer to that but, if that was the case, no liquidated club would ever be able to suffer a second insolvency event / 25 point penalty, because they would be a new entity every time :dunno: which would be a bit of a fail on the part of the football authorities. A club could be a serial liquidator, and never suffer more than a first time penalty. The The The The The The The Rangers yo-yoing up and down the leagues ad infinitum.

[MurrayfieldHibs]

I don't know the answer to that but, if that was the case, no liquidated club would ever be able to suffer a second insolvency event / 25 point penalty, because they would be a new entity every time :dunno: which would be a bit of a fail on the part of the football authorities. A club could be a serial liquidator, and never suffer more than a first time penalty. The The The The The The The Rangers yo-yoing up and down the leagues ad nauseum.

There I fixed that for you :wink:

[s.a.m]

There I fixed that for you :wink:

:greengrin
That works better.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?
Nope. It is seen as the same club with different owners.

The rules specifically cover such a situation, and it is seen as a second insolvency event. If it is within 5 years of the first, there is a 25 point penalty.

[Weststandwanab]

They have two choices:

1) Stick to their current line that they are the same club and get a 25 point deduction

2) Decide they are a new club after all, thereby discarding the previous claim to over 140 years of history and to the trophies won, to get a 10 point deduction instead.


Dontcha just love it :greengrin

Spot on- a quandry for the bears with half a brain

Doncha wish you had Lawell !

[Iggy Pope]

Please. Let's not start this utter gash again.

[MyJo]

Is the new rule for administration not a 15 point deduction or one third of the previous seasons points total whichever is the highest?

if that is the case then administration this season would be a 34 point deduction.

[southsider]

Spot on- a quandry for the bears with half a brain

Doncha wish you had Lawell !
Lawell.... after tonight makes Petrie look like Paul Getty. Gers 2 going bust. Celtic humiliated against Abbeyhill FC.Dontcha just love it.

[Aldo]

I friend of mine works in stocks and shares and his company was asked to do the work on Der Hun in this up and coming share issue. The company carried out it's 'Due Dilligence' and as far as he's concerned they are totally skint and may not last the season.

[portycabbage]

Is the new rule for administration not a 15 point deduction or one third of the previous seasons points total whichever is the highest?

if that is the case then administration this season would be a 34 point deduction.

I think that was the old new rule, as opposed to the new new rule-

http://spfl.co.uk/spfl/rules-and-articles/

(p37 of "rules" bit)

[tamig]

Given the behaviour of their "fans" at the game yesterday would we really be sad to see them go bust :hmmm:

And having walked through Rosburn park on the way home I can't say I am too impressed with their green counterparts either.

Their fans could have behaved like angels last night but I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to see that mob disappear forever.

[BH Hibs]

When you read the article on one hand they talk about being financially stable by the end of next season then on the other hand they're talking about income from the Champions League in 3 years. How much money will they have to throw at that. They're barking mad. :lolrangers:

[magpie1892]

I don't know the answer to that but, if that was the case, no liquidated club would ever be able to suffer a second insolvency event / 25 point penalty, because they would be a new entity every time :dunno: which would be a bit of a fail on the part of the football authorities. A club could be a serial liquidator, and never suffer more than a first time penalty. The The The The The The The Rangers yo-yoing up and down the leagues ad nauseam.

There, fixed that for you - with correct spelling and everything this time.

[magpie1892]

When you read the article on one hand they talk about being financially stable by the end of next season then on the other hand they're talking about income from the Champions League in 3 years. How much money will they have to throw at that. They're barking mad. :lolrangers:

Celtic are streets ahead of the new hun and they were turned over home and away by a Polish side with very little in the way of European pedigree, and so CFC are of CL qualifying before even the play-off tie.

New hun are going to get into the Champions League within three years? How does that work?

[BH Hibs]

Celtic are streets ahead of the new hun and they were turned over home and away by a Polish side with very little in the way of European pedigree, and so CFC are of CL qualifying before even the play-off tie.

New hun are going to get into the Champions League within three years? How does that work?

That's my point they'd have to bankrupt themselves again to assemble a squad to challenge for CL qualification but they seem to be taking it as a given for potential revenue streams. No wonder their scheme failed

[Keith_M]

Please. Let's not start this utter gash again.


This happens to be news, like it or not.

If not, feel feel to go elsewhere.

[SanFranHibs]

Out of interest and I am sure someone will know, what are the rules allowing a share float or whatever the correct term is. I suppose, what I am asking is, could Hibs issue(?) more shares to raise 3million for team building?

[Sudds_1]

Would this not be classed as a first time. Was a different club that went into admin last time?

That's what I always believed,,,,,,,,but then there's the 5 stars above the badge.

They've not been in existence long enough to win 5 European titles....have they?

[Keith_M]

Out of interest and I am sure someone will know, what are the rules allowing a share float or whatever the correct term is. I suppose, what I am asking is, could Hibs issue(?) more shares to raise 3million for team building?


Would anybody be prepared to buy them?

[CropleyWasGod]

Out of interest and I am sure someone will know, what are the rules allowing a share float or whatever the correct term is. I suppose, what I am asking is, could Hibs issue(?) more shares to raise 3million for team building?

They could, and there is little to stop them, but whether they would ....?

The last time something like that was attempted still brings me the shivers.

[SanFranHibs]

Would anybody be prepared to buy them?

That I did not touch on. I asked about the rules governing a share issue, not the attractiveness of the offer.

I have been googling it and though I am now more aware of aspects of it such as share dilution and pre-emptive rightst, I have not yet found a definitive law that says something like, your current assets don't allow it, or you can only do this once in every share transfer window :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

That's what I always believed,,,,,,,,but then there's the 5 stars above the badge.

They've not been in existence long enough to win 5 European titles....have they?

The club has. Sevco bought the club for a fiver from TRFC.

[SanFranHibs]

They could, and there is little to stop them, but whether they would ....?

The last time something like that was attempted still brings me the shivers.

I do recall that and I was not advocating it, just wondering what the rules are and how easy a share issue is to do.

You still got your shares? :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Obviously a bit strapped for cash then. Well done to all the Hibbies who didn't chuck back the coins that the new boys fans threw at them. Every little helps.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm still at a loss to understand how a new club with debts wiped out from its previous incarnation and 38,000 ST holders can end up in squillions of debt getting out of the two lowest leagues in Scotland. Eye watering mismanagement by the sound of it.

This is all good news for us. The SPFL will bend over backwards to get them into the Premiership with full cooperation ( threats and begging ) from celtic and if they do get a 25 point deduction the only way to do that is an expanded Premiership.

In the event that doesn't happen, even Hibs couldn't be bad enough to let the Zombies make up a 25 point deficit. Especially this Zombie team.

[Hibrandenburg]

Please. Let's not start this utter gash again.

Why not? First time round was a blast.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm still at a loss to understand how a new club with debts wiped out from its previous incarnation and 38,000 ST holders can end up in squillions of debt getting out of the two lowest leagues in Scotland. Eye watering mismanagement by the sound of it.

This is all good news for us. The SPFL will bend over backwards to get them into the Premiership with full cooperation ( threats and begging ) from celtic and if they do get a 25 point deduction the only way to do that is an expanded Premiership.

In the event that doesn't happen, even Hibs couldn't be bad enough to let the Zombies make up a 25 point deficit. Especially this Zombie team.

If they get a 25 point deduction and lose all their players, they would need to expand the premiership to about 22 teams to get them in.

[bobbyhibs1983]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;4119825]I'm still at a loss to understand how a new club with debts wiped out from its previous incarnation and 38,000 ST holders can end up in squillions of debt getting out of the two lowest leagues in Scotland. Eye watering mismanagement by the sound of it.
QUOTE]


At i guess and its just *imo* considering there restarted in div 3 were they still not paying big wages? same with last season, i recall somone saying(or reading it) that the manager was on sometihng mad like 10k A WEEK!

think of the players they have had in the last season or 2, im sure a few would be on more money than some of our players last season. Plus im sure there st price would be a heck of alot lower to.
As for the question sanfranhibs has asked i do not think it would be a problem in theory, though as i understand it it would cost some money(not a HUGE amount prob about 100k?)
the problem in I see is why would people want to buy shares in a football club?prob emontional reasons,
I do dabble in shares and the only reasons i do it is 1. to make money either through the shares going way way up!! or 2 diverends.I dont think hibs would be able to do either of those.
As someone im sure has mentioned there are other options to help hibs was there not talk of like a fund?
Hope this helps!!

[--------]

There I fixed that for you :wink:


There, fixed that for you - with correct spelling and everything this time.

Rats! I was going to do that!

[Keith_M]

Could someone maybe help those of us that are a bit dim please :greengrin


The Thread Title says the Share Issue 'falls short of 10M target'. Does that means they actually DID raise money and, if so, how much?


Cheers.

[Keith_M]

At i guess and its just *imo* considering there restarted in div 3 were they still not paying big wages? same with last season, i recall somone saying(or reading it) that the manager was on sometihng mad like 10k A WEEK!



He was paid 780k in the first season and for at least half of the second. He's alleged to have taken a pay cut of 50%, but that figure was from a misleading newspaper headline that everyone just repeated, in the absence of facts. One other estimate was that he's been on 10k per week since January.

Add that all together and they've so far paid him, since new Hun was started 25 months ago, in the region of £1.5 Million

When you add on the ridiculous salaries and bonuses paid out to the Players and Directors, it's no surprise they're in so much trouble

[bobbyhibs1983]

He was paid 780k in the first season and for at least half of the second. He's alleged to have taken a pay cut of 50%, but that figure was from a misleading newspaper headline that everyone just repeated, in the absence of facts. One other estimate was that he's been on 10k per week since January.

Add that all together and they've so far paid him, since new Hun was started 25 months ago, in the region of £1.5 Million

When you add on the ridiculous salaries and bonuses paid out to the Players and Directors, it's no surprise they're in so much trouble


Fair enough, really,I think most football fans weather you are good with money or not will understand if you spend MORE money than YOU are receving then after a while there will be a problem .

[Ozyhibby]

Could someone maybe help those of us that are a bit dim please :greengrin


The Thread Title says the Share Issue 'falls short of 10M target'. Does that means they actually DID raise money and, if so, how much?


Cheers.

No they haven't raised a bean. They went door to door in London and got laughed out of town.
They are now going to try to get the money of existing shareholders.

[Keith_M]

No they haven't raised a bean. They went door to door in London and got laughed out of town.
They are now going to try to get the money of existing shareholders.


Cheers, that's good to hear


:thumbsup:

[BH Hibs]

He was paid 780k in the first season and for at least half of the second. He's alleged to have taken a pay cut of 50%, but that figure was from a misleading newspaper headline that everyone just repeated, in the absence of facts. One other estimate was that he's been on 10k per week since January.

Add that all together and they've so far paid him, since new Hun was started 25 months ago, in the region of £1.5 Million

When you add on the ridiculous salaries and bonuses paid out to the Players and Directors, it's no surprise they're in so much trouble

Agree with all of that tbh. I would also factor in the ego or arrogance cost. By that I mean the think that they are Rangers and have to spend big money on International players and pay the biggest wages as they are the biggest club in the country. Instead of doing what Gretna, Livingston and other clubs did and buying the best players from the lower leagues at a fraction of the cost they had to overspend massively to satisfy the massive demands of their fans who wouldn't have accepted a team full of good lower league players who would have still got them out the league easily.

[bobbyhibs1983]

No they haven't raised a bean. They went door to door in London and got laughed out of town.
They are now going to try to get the money of existing shareholders.

What i do not understand maybe i am being a little bit thick here but how can they get money out of shareholders,by offering them more shares?
currently rangers were trading in and around 30p(thats right 30pences) per share,so in theory its in and around 3 and a bit shares to a £1 and they need £10million:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

What i do not understand maybe i am being a little bit thick here but how can they get money out of shareholders,by offering them more shares?
currently rangers were trading in and around 30p(thats right 30pences) per share,so in theory its in and around 3 and a bit shares to a £1 and they need £10million:greengrin

They ask the shareholders for money, in return for new shares.

[Hibiza]

How many times does this "club" ask for money. Last year they got pelters for having a few days at a 5 star hotel prior to a game with Forfar or whoever , with all the trimmings etc. So they go for a pre season to California , super Ally with the "Aviator" specs , :clown: hope they get a deduction . p.s Lee Wallace a "headless thug chicken" .:flag:

[Ozyhibby]

How many times does this "club" ask for money. Last year they got pelters for having a few days at a 5 star hotel prior to a game with Forfar or whoever , with all the trimmings etc. So they go for a pre season to California , super Ally with the "Aviator" specs , :clown: hope they get a deduction . p.s Lee Wallace a "headless thug chicken" .:flag:

They got the Florida trip for free.

[--------]

What i do not understand maybe i am being a little bit thick here but how can they get money out of shareholders,by offering them more shares?
currently rangers were trading in and around 30p(thats right 30pences) per share,so in theory its in and around 3 and a bit shares to a £1 and they need £10million:greengrin

Thirty-three million new shares? :devil:

Why am I suddenly thinking "Ponzi Scheme"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

[Hibiza]

They got the Florida trip for free.

So did "Super Pally" with his specs. shower ey humps.

[--------]

They got the Florida trip for free.


Really? Florida?

Who paid for them? Somebody in the pharmaceutical industry? :devil:

I hope the Customs searched their luggage really thoroughly when they got back.

And got the rubber gloves out as well ....

[bobbyhibs1983]

They ask the shareholders for money, in return for new shares.


ok thank you for clearing that up .As doddie has said that d be one heck of new shares so to speak

[CropleyWasGod]

ok thank you for clearing that up .As doddie has said that d be one heck of new shares so to speak

It's less about the number of shares than their cost, and the percentage held as a result.

[ano hibby]

They got the Florida trip for free.

All about developing (actually introducing) the 'The' brand :)

[Keith_M]

What i do not understand maybe i am being a little bit thick here but how can they get money out of shareholders,by offering them more shares?
currently rangers were trading in and around 30p(thats right 30pences) per share,so in theory its in and around 3 and a bit shares to a £1 and they need £10million:greengrin


They ask the shareholders for money, in return for new shares.


IIRC, they were going to offer any new shares to existing shareholders at a 'preferential rate'. The first batch of shares were given to Green and his backers, plus McCoist, for a penny a share. It was mentioned in the MSM that they might do so again.

[CropleyWasGod]

IIRC, they were going to offer any new shares to existing shareholders at a 'preferential rate'. The first batch of shares were given to Green and his backers, plus McCoist, for a penny a share. It was mentioned in the MSM that they might do so again.

That might be their only way out, barring a complete change of ownership....a la Dave King, which they're obviously trying to avoid.

It would, in the short term at least, reduce the value of the present shareholdings... but with the hope that, with the financial future more stable, that value would be recovered in time.

[Eyrie]

At i guess and its just *imo* considering there restarted in div 3 were they still not paying big wages? same with last season, i recall somone saying(or reading it) that the manager was on sometihng mad like 10k A WEEK!

think of the players they have had in the last season or 2, im sure a few would be on more money than some of our players last season. Plus im sure there st price would be a heck of alot lower to.
As for the question sanfranhibs has asked i do not think it would be a problem in theory, though as i understand it it would cost some money(not a HUGE amount prob about 100k?)
the problem in I see is why would people want to buy shares in a football club?prob emontional reasons,
I do dabble in shares and the only reasons i do it is 1. to make money either through the shares going way way up!! or 2 diverends.I dont think hibs would be able to do either of those.
As someone im sure has mentioned there are other options to help hibs was there not talk of like a fund?
Hope this helps!!
Buying new shares in Hibs would be a donation in much the same way that the East Stand stones were, or for those of us old enough, the bricks used for the Famous Five. Based on what happened on the wrong side of the city it would be reasonable to expect to raise around £1m but with the key differences that we would actually receive share certificates and the cash would stay with the club.

As regards the bit in bold - have a look at this thread (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?280410-Kicks-For-Kids-Fundraiser-2014-15-45-Season-Tickets-Bought-So-Far) to learn how you can support two good causes with one donation :aok:

[tamig]

I'm still at a loss to understand how a new club with debts wiped out from its previous incarnation and 38,000 ST holders can end up in squillions of debt getting out of the two lowest leagues in Scotland. Eye watering mismanagement by the sound of it.

This is all good news for us. The SPFL will bend over backwards to get them into the Premiership with full cooperation ( threats and begging ) from celtic and if they do get a 25 point deduction the only way to do that is an expanded Premiership.

In the event that doesn't happen, even Hibs couldn't be bad enough to let the Zombies make up a 25 point deficit. Especially this Zombie team.
They screwed up big time under Chuckie and co. They had no strategy and simply carried on as though they were a Champions League club.
Newhun should have grown organically - keeping their wage bill under tight control. Fatty McCoist should have had his salary cut to a max of £100k. Then you get the bonus boys in the board room. There are so many examples as to where it all went wrong.

[southsider]

I think that the entire first team squad ALL stay in a top class hotel the night before (Friday or Sat) a match. The are totally skint and throwing money about like a man with no arms. Sevco 2 or The The rangers is with every day looking a mighty real possibility. omg i do hope so.

[Ozyhibby]

I think that the entire first team squad ALL stay in a top class hotel the night before (Friday or Sat) a match. The are totally skint and throwing money about like a man with no arms. Sevco 2 or The The rangers is with every day looking a mighty real possibility. omg i do hope so.

And a 25pt penalty would leave us and the yams in a straight race for promotion.
:-)

[PatHead]

When do they need the money by and what happens if they fail? Administration?

[Scouse Hibee]

I think that the entire first team squad ALL stay in a top class hotel the night before (Friday or Sat) a match. The are totally skint and throwing money about like a man with no arms. Sevco 2 or The The rangers is with every day looking a mighty real possibility. omg i do hope so.

Yes even when playing as close as Edinburgh the whole squad were in 5 star hotels the night before a match, plain crazy waste of money.

[macca70]

Sallyukas, Boyd and Miller won't have signed on for peanuts either, it's beyond belief that they can be living out with there means by adding to the wage bill with these 3.

[southsider]

They are strutting about like they are Real Madrid when in fact they have about 18.000 ST holders. Teams like Derby or Sheffield Wed. have more. They (and hert7s) given their spending are heading for the grubber.

[Keith_M]

HMRC are to make a second attempt at appealing the decision (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/fans-accuse-the-taxman-of-witch-hunt-against-rangers.24987451) on the Big Tax Case.


The article hghlights the fact that Rangers current incarnation are still paying ridiculous sums of money to current Directors, with some Part-Time consultant getting 200k per year and Wallace could receive up to 630k for this year.


Instead of looking for external funding to plug a shortfall, wouldn't it be better if they stopped leaking money at such a ridiculous rate?

:confused:

[CyberSauzee]

HMRC are to make a second attempt at appealing the decision (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/fans-accuse-the-taxman-of-witch-hunt-against-rangers.24987451) on the Big Tax Case.


The article hghlights the fact that Rangers current incarnation are still paying ridiculous sums of money to current Directors, with some Part-Time consultant getting 200k per year and Wallace could receive up to 630k for this year.


Instead of looking for external funding to plug a shortfall, wouldn't it be better if they stopped leaking money at such a ridiculous rate?

:confused:

Of course not. Let them spend, spend spend.

[southsider]

HMRC are the good guys in this. By taking a stand in protecting each and every taxpayer in the UK. How is it possible for a footballer earning £40,000 per week to pay no tax whilst a window cleaner at THe or HEAR7S gets bumped by those crooks and still has to pay tax.