The Takeover Megathread (David Low Bid Rejected)

[marinello59]

Really, did he tell you that?

Have you read what Low said?

[Bostonhibby]

[QUOTE=CentreLine;4127228]Does anyone think for one moment that there would be vultures circling our club if it was not for the fantastic facilities and huge potential it now has? These were things put in place but the current administration and in as far as they go the current administration should be given great credit for that. Including Rod Petrie. Where exactly wre all ther would be owners when the hard work needed to be done? Are people so desperate to get rid of RP that they are willing to accept some annonymous group of alleged bidders as better than what we now have? How would it be if Mr Low finally raises the curtain on his bidders and they turn out to be a binch of asset strippers? Lets face it the value in our club at present, for right reason or none, is in the property it owns.

There can be no question that the football decisions on the other hand have been all but disastrous and everyone accepts that something needs to be done about that. Then, lo an behold we see that something has been done, we have all of these new people in place, a sitation that was spoken about by the club before relegation. Not only that but most people would seem to be delighted with the progress being made by the new team, another plus for the current administration of the club.


:agree: all of this bit - Petrie has to go because of the consequences of the last 5 or 6 years of decisions that affect the footballing side directly in my view but we should not underestimate what his legacy could have been - STF put him in to steady the ship and prevent a repeat of the factors that combined to make us a soft touch for the mercers and Rowlands of this world - he did this and more in terms of the infrastructure. Fans will rightly devalue this the longer the bad run continues and he is there.

[madhibby]

His statement said "On 18 June 2014 I made an offer for the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings Limited, Sir Thomas Farmer and Mr Roderick Petrie on behalf of myself and other investors. That offer was rejected by Mr Petrie yesterday evening (12 August). The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC.."

It didn't mention the £3.5m.

I don’t know if you are deliberately trying to ignore the fact that David Low’s consortium were offering £3.5m to acquire the shares of Hibernian holdings - with the 90:10 split STF receives £3.150m and RP gets the rest - £350k. The adviser, appointed by STF, said that wasn’t in Hibs interest supposedly ignoring any personal financial considerations for STF or RP. I have said previously the Hibs supporters should be given access to the justification behind the adviser’s view.

[Liberal Hibby]

Really, did he tell you that?

No. But he is quoted as saying, "However, it is apparent that Mr Petrie’s decision has more to do with personal wealth management than any Legacy for Leith".

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/david-low-takes-swipe-at-rod-petrie-over-hibs-bid-snub-1-3508125

[CentreLine]

[QUOTE=CentreLine;4127228]Does anyone think for one moment that there would be vultures circling our club if it was not for the fantastic facilities and huge potential it now has? These were things put in place but the current administration and in as far as they go the current administration should be given great credit for that. Including Rod Petrie. Where exactly wre all ther would be owners when the hard work needed to be done? Are people so desperate to get rid of RP that they are willing to accept some annonymous group of alleged bidders as better than what we now have? How would it be if Mr Low finally raises the curtain on his bidders and they turn out to be a binch of asset strippers? Lets face it the value in our club at present, for right reason or none, is in the property it owns.

There can be no question that the football decisions on the other hand have been all but disastrous and everyone accepts that something needs to be done about that. Then, lo an behold we see that something has been done, we have all of these new people in place, a sitation that was spoken about by the club before relegation. Not only that but most people would seem to be delighted with the progress being made by the new team, another plus for the current administration of the club.


:agree: all of this bit - Petrie has to go because of the consequences of the last 5 or 6 years of decisions that affect the footballing side directly in my view but we should not underestimate what his legacy could have been - STF put him in to steady the ship and prevent a repeat of the factors that combined to make us a soft touch for the mercers and Rowlands of this world - he did this and more in terms of the infrastructure. Fans will rightly devalue this the longer the bad run continues and he is there.

But the bad run may not be continuing so all that is left is the "he is there" bit. Does that bit really matter if we finally see some success on the pitch? My whole point is perfectly clear that people need to look forward instead of back but that does not seem to be within the abilities of many of our fans? I do not use the term supporters because people who spend so much time complaining and knocking our club are certainly not supporting it,

[CropleyWasGod]

I don’t know if you are deliberately trying to ignore the fact that David Low’s consortium were offering £3.5m to acquire the shares of Hibernian holdings - with the 90:10 split STF receives £3.150m and RP gets the rest - £350k. The adviser, appointed by STF, said that wasn’t in Hibs interest supposedly ignoring any personal financial considerations for STF or RP. I have said previously the Hibs supporters should be given access to the justification behind the adviser’s view.

That's not what he said. He said "the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings" That's different from the shares OF HFC Holdings.

His statement, as many have said, reeks of ****-stirring. As many have said on here, it is designed to set fans against Petrie. However, IMO, it is deliberately opaque to confuse us.

It's working. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Mate, seriously any chance you could post something positive about Hibs. Everything is so downbeat from you. Aberdeen are in as bad a financial state as us. They also need a new stadium and don't have a training facility like ours. That will add massively to their debt. They hVe massively underachieved for years like us but they have a decent season and all of a sudden you want us to be like them???

There is not a lot to be positive about in our situation.
I'm pissed of that the owners can not even admit culpability and want to remain in post.
Still if we win on Sunday I promise to be a happy clapper for a week. :-)

[Bostonhibby]

[QUOTE=Bostonhibby;4127237]

But the bad run may not be continuing so all that is left is the "he is there" bit. [B]Does that bit really matter if we finally see some success on the pitch. My whole point is perfectly clear that people need to look forward instead of back but that does not seem to be within the abilities of many of our fans? I do not use the term supporters because people who spend so much time compaining and knocking our club are certainly not supporting it,

No, for many it wouldn't matter and maybe it shouldn't anyway(?) because his powers as chairman should really be very little and his influence the same - all that makes it different here is his place at the holding company table - that would remain if he resigned from the football club, it's an odd one. I think he is hanging around to ensure his SFA place and whatever happens if we see more success attributable to the new regime, more power to them.

Onward and upward.

[madhibby]

That's not what he said. He said "the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings" That's different from the shares OF HFC Holdings.

I am not going to quibble over English. Are you disputing that David Low’s consortium were going to pay £3.5m to acquire Hibs and roughly 90% of that sum was going to STF with the balance to Rod Pertrie?

[CentreLine]

[QUOTE=CentreLine;4127245]

No, for many it wouldn't matter and maybe it shouldn't anyway(?) because his powers as chairman should really be very little and his influence the same - all that makes it different here is his place at the holding company table - that would remain if he resigned from the football club, it's an odd one. I think he is hanging around to ensure his SFA place and whatever happens if we see more success attributable to the new regime, more power to them.

Onward and upward.

:aok:

[Gustavo Fring]

i hope this is the beginning of the end for that ****bag petrie but i wont get my hopes up just yet

petrieOUT

[brog]

Just muddle along as we are in the 1st Division with the highest debt in Scottish football seems to be in our best interests. Now shut up and buy a season ticket.

In the space of 3 posts you've gone from saying our debt was about £6m to asking if it was about £12m & whether that was the highest debt in Scottish football to telling us we have the highest debt in Scottish football! Congrats, you made the leap from ignorance to expert in 3 easy leaps! Tomorrow, Hibs having the highest debt in Scottish football will be a Net Fact! As ever there are many ways in which numbers can be interpreted but based on last year's accounts Hibs are in an extremely stable situation. I look forward to your detailed analysis of the financial stability, gearing & debt ratios of the other 41 Scottish clubs!

[CropleyWasGod]

I am not going to quibble over English. Are you disputing that David Low’s consortium were going to pay £3.5m to acquire Hibs and roughly 90% of that sum was going to STF with the balance to Rod Pertrie?
My expectation would be that was the case. However, Low's latest statement throws that into doubt. iMO, it's deliberately ambiguous.

[zero-seven]

Petrie only owns 10% of the shares, its STF that is making the decision not to sell......numpty

get off yer high horse....who cares what Petrie owns or doesnt own..buck stops with him and STF...he is the spokes man for the club on this topic and is and has made terrible decisions for the club...he and you are numpties of the highest order if you think the club doesnt need restructure or investment

[Liberal Hibby]

get off yer high horse....who cares what Petrie owns or doesnt own..buck stops with him and STF...he is the spokes man for the club on this topic and is and has made terrible decisions for the club...he and you are numpties of the highest order if you think the club doesnt need restructure or investment

Be careful what you wish for. The club has just had a major restructure with Leann Dempster taking control and the football side being shaken up radically.

Yes invesment would be good - but who's going to chuck money at Hibs without wanting some sort of return - for example development land?

[cocopops1875]

Be careful what you wish for. The club has just had a major restructure with Leann Dempster taking control and the football side being shaken up radically.

Yes invesment would be good - but who's going to chuck money at Hibs without wanting some sort of return - for example development land?
Where is the development land ?

[Libby Hibby]

In the space of 3 posts you've gone from saying our debt was about £6m to asking if it was about £12m & whether that was the highest debt in Scottish football to telling us we have the highest debt in Scottish football! Congrats, you made the leap from ignorance to expert in 3 easy leaps! Tomorrow, Hibs having the highest debt in Scottish football will be a Net Fact! As ever there are many ways in which numbers can be interpreted but based on last year's accounts Hibs are in an extremely stable situation. I look forward to your detailed analysis of the financial stability, gearing & debt ratios of the other 41 Scottish clubs!

Well said Brog...Ozyhibby deliberately trolling here as are others.

Facts are - there was contact between Low and Hibs, it's been rejected, a club statement released stating the contact and subsequent rejection and asking us to move on and concentrate on the derby...so for once, we should all take heed.

Lilies this thread to stop the trolling please Admins. For once the club have dealt with this in the right manner with their statement and they will keep us updated if there is any other interest I'm sure

[Thecat23]

CWG says that the book price for the company was £13.5m and the offer of £3.5m seems to be a bit complicated now.

As to price I remember a few guys saying that STF (and/or his companie(s)) was at least £8m down on the deal, possibly as much as £12m.

£12m is a lot of cash in anyone's world if true. I'd also be knocking back £3.5m. As I say though he should name his price as he knows how much he wants and if he gets it then he can go. I'm not convinced him or Rod want to sell the club!

[NW]

£12m is a lot of cash in anyone's world if true. I'd also be knocking back £3.5m. As I say though he should name his price as he knows how much he wants and if he gets it then he can go. I'm not convinced him or Rod want to sell the club!

Let's be realistic re values. Realistcally what is ER worth? No one bar apart from a football team would buy it , also look at what rangers killie pars and hearts recently all sold ground for.

[Thecat23]

Let's be realistic re values. Realistcally what is ER worth? No one bar apart from a football team would buy it , also look at what rangers killie pars and hearts recently all sold ground for.

I personally think he wouldn't get more than £5m.

[marinello59]

Let's be realistic re values. Realistcally what is ER worth? No one bar apart from a football team would buy it , also look at what rangers killie pars and hearts recently all sold ground for.

Obviously it suits those involved in making a bid to talk down the value of the club every chance they get. Hard to resist I guess.

[oregonhibby]

Obviously it suits those involved in making a bid to talk down the value of the club every chance they get. Hard to resist I guess.

Easter Road plus significant land at East Mains. The difference between Hibs and the others noted above is that they had nowhere to go. They were bust or effectively bust, Hibs is not and with STF behind them won't be.

If the seller is leaning over a barrel that normally gives any purchaser the edge over a seller. In this situation that is not the case. Normally businesses are sold as a multiple of NAV or revenues. Conveniently Low's bid will be based on the latter, the economic circumstances of Scottish football and their perception of the sellers need to sell. They have missed that the NAV is between £8-10m and the seller won't sell to people who do not have the best interests of the Club at heart or will not specify how they will protect the Club for us in the future. Also the seller is in no economic trouble.

So my assessment is that at £3.5m compared to a simple NAV basis at par completely undervalues the Club. It would be a great purchase at that number because at East Mains, there is potential planning gain on the unused land. If the seller - and lets forget the personalities - sold low they would then look and feel pretty stupid in a few years time when Barratt or Persimmon or whoever announced a major development on the land or a parcel of the land.

STF has had the best interests of the Club at heart for years. The ire seems to be against RP and Low is cynically using that to put pressure on the seller. Why did he not say STF is more interested in wealth management and only point out RP?

The thing about hostile takeover attempts is that everyone is damaged. It also makes people fight harder unless there is a realistic deal on the table. If they want to win any PR battle put facts and a realistic deal on the table - simple.

Just a view.

[NW]

Obviously it suits those involved in making a bid to talk down the value of the club every chance they get. Hard to resist I guess.

It's also called reality, but let's not worry. Let's just overvalue

[Hibs07p]

IMO, FWIW I've always believed that STF would leave Hibs to "the fans", in whatever guise that might be. IIRC, the last time there was serious discontent amongst the fans, was when Brian Kennedy came calling. STF didn't give him the time of day and chased him. STF, I believe was proved right then, and will be proved right now. Having said that, I think STF knows it is now time for him to get out, and his legacy before he goes will be the ongoing safe keeping of HFC. STF is obliged to listen to any offers regarding HFC, and the one he accepts will meet that criteria. This is not about personal "wealth management" for STF, but doing the right thing. I don't believe the highest bid will secure his shares, but the knowledge that the club is being passed onto the best group of people to secure Hibs future, in perpetuity. The only group who will satisfy that criteria is us, the fans.

GGTTH

[marinello59]

It's also called reality, but let's not worry. Let's just overvalue

Your comments are hardly impartial are they? :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

Easter Road plus significant land at East Mains. The difference between Hibs and the others noted above is that they had nowhere to go. They were bust or effectively bust, Hibs is not and with STF behind them won't be.

If the seller is leaning over a barrel that normally gives any purchaser the edge over a seller. In this situation that is not the case. Normally businesses are sold as a multiple of NAV or revenues. Conveniently Low's bid will be based on the latter, the economic circumstances of Scottish football and their perception of the sellers need to sell. They have missed that the NAV is between £8-10m and the seller won't sell to people who do not have the best interests of the Club at heart or will not specify how they will protect the Club for us in the future. Also the seller is in no economic trouble.

So my assessment is that at £3.5m compared to a simple NAV basis at par completely undervalues the Club. It would be a great purchase at that number because at East Mains, there is potential planning gain on the unused land. If the seller - and lets forget the personalities - sold low they would then look and feel pretty stupid in a few years time when Barratt or Persimmon or whoever announced a major development on the land or a parcel of the land.

STF has had the best interests of the Club at heart for years. The ire seems to be against RP and Low is cynically using that to put pressure on the seller. Why did he not say STF is more interested in wealth management and only point out RP?

The thing about hostile takeover attempts is that everyone is damaged. It also makes people fight harder unless there is a realistic deal on the table. If they want to win any PR battle put facts and a realistic deal on the table - simple.

Just a view.

And an accurate view in my opinion. At 3.5m the numbers in the deal leave plenty for an asset stripper to tap into if they want to. Even if you ignore whatever the value of the footballing product is there would still be a profit on the property assetts and even shorter term revenue to be had.

Not a million miles removed from Mercer and Rowlands plan - its a risk and I do believe that for all the criticism STF has stuck to preserving the club and is likely to deal with any offers on this basis going forward.

[Bostonhibby]

It's also called reality, but let's not worry. Let's just overvalue

Its the certification of our accounts by auditors that creates a value, not well meaning Hibbies. The Very thing some of the clubs with dodgier finances struggle to get and in some cases deliberately avoid!

[NW]

Your comments are hardly impartial are they? :wink:

Nor inaccurate

[Mon Dieu4]

Whilst ST has made mistakes I genuinely believe he has the best interests of Hibs at heart so I'm confident that he would only sell to someone who can assure the safe custody of the club, so if he didn't like this guys intentions then that's good enough for me, besides he owns us, it's up to him what figure he would be willing to accept

You wouldn't accept a low offer on your house because some of your neighbours didn't like what you've done with the place

I'm all for a new regime but only if it suits all parties and that STF is convinced the person can take us forward with a guaranteed future

[NW]

Its the certification of our accounts by auditors that creates a value, not well meaning Hibbies. The Very thing some of the clubs with dodgier finances struggle to get and in some cases deliberately avoid!

It's what people are prepared to pay that creates a value

[marinello59]

Nor inaccurate

Well you would say that wouldn't you?

[Cropley10]

£12m is a lot of cash in anyone's world if true. I'd also be knocking back £3.5m. As I say though he should name his price as he knows how much he wants and if he gets it then he can go. I'm not convinced him or Rod want to sell the club!

The reality is it's not a sellers market.

Whatever STF spent or has invested in Hibs the chances of him ever seeing that money again are slim, almost non-existent.

People constantly bringing up what he's forked out over 20 years are missing the point. IMHO.

[NW]

Well you would say that wouldn't you?

What would you value a football stadium at in a city of 2 teams, where one team would never want to use it?

[Hibrandenburg]

Does anyone think that these business men think they could take hibs to the champions league, and that money from that could be invested in the club, it could be that these business men see hibs as able to challenge, everything is in place and at the moment it would not take much to be challenging Celtic, they aren't that great, just a thought!

Pie in the sky.

[marinello59]

What would you value a football stadium at in a city of 2 teams, where one team would never want to use it?

I don't know. But then again I am not involved in any bids. What do you value it at?

[Lucius Apuleius]

I thought the majority of our "debt" is in mortgages? If so I assume anyone wanting to take us on also have to pay our mortgages for us? I would also think that any new owner would be able, in the eyes of the bank, to repay this mortgage. Something else sits in my mind. People saying we are only worth between 3.5 and 5 million but the ground is only worth 13 if it is sold for housing?That worries me. Now, I am no fonancial expert and I certainly won't become one just by reading what Low has had to say. Bit like the number of expert football managers because they play FM.

[NW]

I don't know. But then again I am not involved in any bids. What do you value it at?

Well given the other football stadium was effectively on the market for a good while and it would be safe to assume that no non football offer was made then the value is what football people are prepared to pay. I guess it then becomes a game of cat and mouse. Personally if I was writing a cheque then it would be a small 7 figure sum

[CentreLine]

get off yer high horse....who cares what Petrie owns or doesnt own..buck stops with him and STF...he is the spokes man for the club on this topic and is and has made terrible decisions for the club...he and you are numpties of the highest order if you think the club doesnt need restructure or investment

We have our restructure and we have huge investment in the infrastructure and management team already. It is essential to see investment in the team and we look like doing that. It looks like you can't get past focusing on one individual. The bigger picture is much more optimistic than that. Recent disappointments have raised a rabble and a noisy one at that but it does not help the club or the team when this minority of noisy fans create nothing but negativity.

Last time we went down STF financed our quick return through debt forgiveness and signs are that is happening again. I think it is time the noisy minority backed off and started being supporters again.

[Thecat23]

The reality is it's not a sellers market.

Whatever STF spent or has invested in Hibs the chances of him ever seeing that money again are slim, almost non-existent.

People constantly bringing up what he's forked out over 20 years are missing the point. IMHO.

Correct, there really is no way he'd get anything near what he's put in. I'd honestly like to know how much he values Hibs and what he wants for it!

£3.5m is maybe to low but he won't get much more than that IMO. But as I say, still don't think he wants to sell.

[s.a.m]

Correct, there really is no way he'd get anything near what he's put in. I'd honestly like to know how much he values Hibs and what he wants for it!

£3.5m is maybe to low but he won't get much more than that IMO. But as I say, still don't think he wants to sell.

As you say, he may be in no rush to sell. In which case, anybody who wanted to buy would either have to make him an offer he couldn't refuse, or persuade him that the greater good of Hibs, now and in the future, was going to be ensured by the new owners.


Don't know if this is entirely serious(from the Scotsman online edtor), and don't think it would be likely to happen. I would think that MM would have an inkling what they were up to, if this was their end-game:


Stephen Emerson @Stephen_Emerson · 1h
Hibs takeover is interesting.Includes Ralph Lynch whose Da owned Celtic Nation-exit plan north and south of border being planned for Celtic?

Even if they managed to turn Hibs into Celtic, his 'da' has sold Celtic Nation, which was in the minds of some, thought to be a potential route into England for Celtic. Difficulty getting a foothold in English football would possibly thwart any plan. Seems a bit far-fetched.

[Caversham Green]

I am not going to quibble over English. Are you disputing that David Low’s consortium were going to pay £3.5m to acquire Hibs and roughly 90% of that sum was going to STF with the balance to Rod Pertrie?

I would certainly dispute that - indeed Low's statement itself disputes it.

As far as I'm aware the sum of £3.5m has only ever been mentioned by the media and they got one other fundamental point very wrong.

Low's statement says that he made an (unspecified) offer for the club's share capital and that that offer
involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC That's not quibbling over English, that's what he said in a no doubt carefully considered statement. That suggests that, as well as getting nothing for their shares they were also expected to write off the inter-company balances.

What I surmise from that is that the offer was to buy the club's debt at a discount (which may or may not have been passed on to the club) and offer a nominal sum for the shares - effectively an administration without the legal process.

My other thought on hearing the personalities that are known to be involved (rather than just rumoured) was that the intention was to turn Hibs into a feeder club for Celtic.

[HFC 0-7]

Have you read what Low said?

I have, although what I was referring to was the purpose of what he said. The person I quoted thinks it's in a bid to make the hibs fans force Petrie out. IMO, that's nonsense, what if Petrie is the issue and he is telling the truth. Some fans go from wanting change to not trusting anyone that comes near us. I think we should listen to them. He said he would reveal the investors if the bid was accepted and not proceed with the purchase until the fans are included.

[HFC 0-7]

No. But he is quoted as saying, "However, it is apparent that Mr Petrie’s decision has more to do with personal wealth management than any Legacy for Leith".

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/david-low-takes-swipe-at-rod-petrie-over-hibs-bid-snub-1-3508125

Did he tell you that he said that so that it would make the fans force Petrie out? That's what you said in your previous post.

[Thecat23]

As you say, he may be in no rush to sell. In which case, anybody who wanted to buy would either have to make him an offer he couldn't refuse, or persuade him that the greater good of Hibs, now and in the future, was going to be ensured by the new owners.

What worries me is what is his vision for "the greater good?" Hypothetically speaking, someone's vision for us may not match his yet we could well be better off under this new owner.

Farmer has done many great things for Hibs, getting the stadium done and training centre. Sadly on the pitch and let's be honest what most supporters want to see is a winning team or at least an entertaining side he's failed to get this right.

He's no interest in the football so now would be a good time to hand over to someone else. I'm confident there are folk willing to invest in Hibs purely to see the club do well not just to rip us off. 3 groups have apparently spoke with Farmer so remains to be seen if any can step up and take control.

[Spike Mandela]

I would certainly dispute that - indeed Low's statement itself disputes it.

As far as I'm aware the sum of £3.5m has only ever been mentioned by the media and they got one other fundamental point very wrong.

Low's statement says that he made an (unspecified) offer for the club's share capital and that that offer That's not quibbling over English, that's what he said in a no doubt carefully considered statement. That suggests that, as well as getting nothing for their shares they were also expected to write off the inter-company balances.

What I surmise from that is that the offer was to buy the club's debt at a discount (which may or may not have been passed on to the club) and offer a nominal sum for the shares - effectively an administration without the legal process.

My other thought on hearing the personalities that are known to be involved (rather than just rumoured) was that the intention was to turn Hibs into a feeder club for Celtic.

Interesting analysis as ever CWG. Only thing I would say is haven't we always been a feeder club for Celtic?:cb

[Turkish Green]

£3.5m is maybe to low but he won't get much more than that IMO. But as I say, still don't think he wants to sell.
Budgie paid 2.5M to buy the yams and the PBS from the insolvent Lithuanians yet you feel a viable Hibernian FC plus it's assets have only a value of 3.5M. In which case I do not see STF selling.

While I want PETRIE Out or at least to distance himself from the decision making, I do not see how the best interest of Hibernian FC is best served by selling out on the cheap to some Celtic-minded asset stripper.

Better the devil we know, eh!

[Caversham Green]

Interesting analysis as ever CWG. Only thing I would say is haven't we always been a feeder club for Celtic?:cb

Not really, we've sold players to Celtic in the past, we'd be giving them away as a feeder club. It would also involve keeping Hibs in the lower leagues, selling ER and groundsharing with Hearts but keeping East Mains to develop Celtic's players.

Lovely.

Even if we weren't a true feeder, consider what would happen if, say, Sam Stanton developed into an excellent player, The Team That Replaced Rangers offered £2m and Celtc offered £100k. Who do you think these guys would sell to?

Finally, I am not and never have been CWG.

[Thecat23]

Budgie paid 2.5M to buy the yams and the PBS from the insolvent Lithuanians yet you feel a viable Hibernian FC plus it's assets have only a value of 3.5M. In which case I do not see STF selling.

While I want PETRIE Out or at least to distance himself from the decision making, I do not see how the best interest of Hibernian FC is best served by selling out on the cheap to some Celtic-minded asset stripper.

Better the devil we know, eh!

If you read my post mate I think the offer is low. I don't think he'd get more than £5m but that's just my opinion I'm no expert!

I don't get the whole "better the devil you know." Farmer said he wouldn't sell to someone who would put the club in danger. So if he does sell the club surely we would be fine no?

[Spike Mandela]

Finally, I am not and never have been CWG.

Ha ha sorry. Not sure if it's a back handed compliment or an insult. Anyway,he never offers interesting analysis.:wink:

[Caversham Green]

Ha ha sorry. Not sure if it's a back handed compliment or an insult. Anyway,he never offers interesting analysis.:wink:

He's an accountant - what do you expect.

[SMAXXA]

Not really, we've sold players to Celtic in the past, we'd be giving them away as a feeder club. It would also involve keeping Hibs in the lower leagues, selling ER and groundsharing with Hearts but keeping East Mains to develop Celtic's players.

Lovely.

Even if we weren't a true feeder, consider what would happen if, say, Sam Stanton developed into an excellent player, The Team That Replaced Rangers offered £2m and Celtc offered £100k. Who do you think these guys would sell to?

Finally, I am not and never have been CWG.

They would sell to the highest bidder let's no kid ourselves on anything different

[Weststandwanab]

Careful CG, we are reading whilst bean counting

[Gordy M]

If you read my post mate I think the offer is low. I don't think he'd get more than £5m but that's just my opinion I'm no expert!

I don't get the whole "better the devil you know." Farmer said he wouldn't sell to someone who would put the club in danger. So if he does sell the club surely we would be fine no?
Thing is tc, we have folk on here(not you) saying they dont believe a word that stf and rp say, yet want to believe that they will only sell to a person/consortium who have hibs best interests at heart? Which is it? Cant have it both ways!

[Caversham Green]

They would sell to the highest bidder let's no kid ourselves on anything different

Put yourself in charge of a club like Alloa (for example) - HoMFC put in a big bid for your best player, Hibs put in a much smaller bid. Would you turn the boy into a yam? I certainly wouldn't. And these guys aren't just Celtic fans - one was instrumental in rescuing the club, the other has apparently been trying to 'spread the word' south of the border, and spending his own money in doing so.

[dangermouse]

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

How does that help the team? Right now we need to get back to the premiership at the first time of asking. The best way to do this is to get right behind the team.

Now that Leann Dempster is running the football side, it looks like we may have found a half decent manager who seems to have a plan B when plan A doesn't work. Pertie's failings in the past have been appointing the wrong man but more often than not the "wrong man" was initially welcomed by the supporters until it went tits up. Apart from the Calderwood fiasco, most fans, IMHO, were initially happy with the appointment of Collins, Mixu, Yogi and Butcher. Fenlon was a bit left field but we got right behind him to pick up the pieces but he too was eventually hounded out by the fans.

I get the impression that some people on here must think Hibs should be the Barcelona of Scotland, they need a wake up call.

[Keith_M]

Dear STF, please do not listen to some of the posters on here and sell our club to the first bunch of shysters on here purely on the basis that they are not you and Petrie.


Thanks,

Concerned Fan.

[SMAXXA]

Put yourself in charge of a club like Alloa (for example) - HoMFC put in a big bid for your best player, Hibs put in a much smaller bid. Would you turn the boy into a yam? I certainly wouldn't. And these guys aren't just Celtic fans - one was instrumental in rescuing the club, the other has apparently been trying to 'spread the word' south of the border, and spending his own money in doing so.

When I'm running the club as a business and have investment interest and looking for returns of course you would be looking for the best offer. Even the most football minded businessmen would put shekels before anything.

[madhibby]

I still think regime change is required and too many people on here are prepared to think the worst of any buyers of Hibs rather than look at the positives. I know there is real North American based interest in buying Hibs and their motives are to make Hibs successful, not based on making a financial return or a quick buck by selling off land etc. To suggest Hibs will come Celtics feeder club just because one (or two) of the parties involved in the Low bid are Celtic fans is just nonsense. What about SFA and League rules and Directors fiduciary duty?

Sometimes Hibs fans lack of ambition for the club staggers and frustrates me. Yes we had a bad experience with Wallace Mercer but it seems some Hibs fans are happy for us just to exist and not to at least challege for the best club after the Old Firm.

It is between Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen who has the largest support in Scotland and we are the biggest underachievers in Scotland. Remember with the Famous Five (before my time) we had average gates of over 30,000 the only team in Scoltand who has ever achieved that outside Rangers and Celtic.

There can be a successful future for Hibs beyond STF and lets consider that future rather than suggest more of the same is all Hibs can achieve.

[Ozyhibby]

I really wish Paul Kane would get his and his groups a*** in gear and let us know their plans.

[bingo70]

Interesting that Lowe's mate Fergus McCain is in the paper today drumming up support for Celtic to join a European league.

This could lend weight behind cavershams feeder club theory. On a less cynical note it could also be a reason why he's looking to invest now, the level playing field he spoke of would certainly be the case were Celtic, and probably the rangers to leave Scottish football.

[Jpdhfc]

Budgie paid 2.5M to buy the yams and the PBS from the insolvent Lithuanians yet you feel a viable Hibernian FC plus it's assets have only a value of 3.5M. In which case I do not see STF selling.

While I want PETRIE Out or at least to distance himself from the decision making, I do not see how the best interest of Hibernian FC is best served by selling out on the cheap to some Celtic-minded asset stripper.

Better the devil we know, eh!

That was for a debt free club though
I presume you buy hibs you take on the debt

[Jim44]

As I haven't been keeping up to speed on this issue, I hope this question isn't considered a bit pedantic, but what exactly would the buyers get for their £3.5m.? If it was the Farmer/Petrie shares, what is the situation with the stadium, training ground and player stock etc.?

[CropleyWasGod]

As I haven't been keeping up to speed on this issue, I hope this question isn't considered a bit pedantic, but what exactly would the buyers get for their £3.5m.? If it was the Farmer/Petrie shares, what is the situation with the stadium, training ground and player stock etc.?

If you buy the shares in HFC Holdings, you own 98% of the company that "is" the club. That company owns those assets, and has all the related liabilities as well.

[Caversham Green]

I still think regime change is required and too many people on here are prepared to think the worst of any buyers of Hibs rather than look at the positives. I know there is real North American based interest in buying Hibs and their motives are to make Hibs successful, not based on making a financial return or a quick buck by selling off land etc. To suggest Hibs will come Celtics feeder club just because one (or two) of the parties involved in the Low bid are Celtic fans is just nonsense. What about SFA and League rules and Directors fiduciary duty?

Sometimes Hibs fans lack of ambition for the club staggers and frustrates me. Yes we had a bad experience with Wallace Mercer but it seems some Hibs fans are happy for us just to exist and not to at least challege for the best club after the Old Firm.

It is between Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen who has the largest support in Scotland and we are the biggest underachievers in Scotland. Remember with the Famous Five (before my time) we had average gates of over 30,000 the only team in Scoltand who has ever achieved that outside Rangers and Celtic.

There can be a successful future for Hibs beyond STF and lets consider that future rather than suggest more of the same is all Hibs can achieve.

Are you disputing that David Low's statement suggests that they proposed to pay nothing for the shares?

What are the SFA/League rules about clubs transferring players at a price agreed between them? As for the Directors' duties, they are to act in the best interests of the company - those best interests can only be decided by the shareholders, who appear to be heavily Celtic-minded. How would you feel if it was Chris Robinson and Leslie Deans that were bidding? Or David Murray? There may well be interest from North America - there certainly was for Hearts and the now-defunct Rangers, but there's also interest from Edinburgh from a group fronted by someone who I know for sure has the best interests of the club at heart.

Personally, I would have absolutely no problem with a change of ownership if the club went to the right people - David Low's statement has convinced me that his group are not the right people - whether Paul Kane's group are remains to be seen, but change for change's sake is a dangerous route.



I really wish Paul Kane would get his and his groups a*** in gear and let us know their plans.

Amen to that.

[Jim44]

If you buy the shares in HFC Holdings, you own 98% of the company that "is" the club. That company owns those assets, and has all the related liabilities as well.

What's to stop someone buying 'cheaply' or at least well below the market value of a company's tangible and intangible assets and then doing a bit of asset stripping?

[SanFranHibs]

Not trying to be a peacebroker or even claiming that war has broken out on this thread but I think some people have lost sight of the main issue for fans, which is, when a bid is submitted is it good for Hibs? Not, who gets what? How much are his shares worth?

'Is it good for Hibs?' is of course an open ended question and we could immediately get into arguing what is good for Hibs? Quick sale? Petrie out? More debt ploughed straight into the team? We can only let the bottom line of any offer be judged by STF and his advisers. Surely we cannot accuse STF and Petrie of holding out solely for a better deal for themselves. I don't think STF would ever have bought Hibs if he was looking at his return on the deal. And I think in his situation RP is not trying to kill offers because he thinks they should hold out and maybe get 4 million thus pushing up his 10% another 50k. It might also be argued that if someone was really interested in Hibs as a football club would he have given up at first attepmt and resorted to publicly blaming others for his failed bid?

Our bottom line as fans should be is it good for the long term future of Hibs and do we trust the intent of the buyer(s). It is ok to say that some people have been successful in making money so if they buy Hibs, make money at Hibs it must be because they have us challenging at the top end of the SPL or at least playing fast, flowing football attracting a few more fans. Not true. We all know there are very different kinds of business people with very different aims and very different methods. One aspect of STF's business history is longevity. He has not made his money by 'travel light, get in, get out, don't look back in anger!'.

We really should not care if Petrie is going to get 10%, or if STF will get all his money back. STF is no fool and perhaps he never actually put as much of his money into the club as some might think. I certainly don't know his investment amount or what he hopes to take away from it but I do trust his motives. I do believe that once STF and his accountants have sorted out their bottom line he will then look at deal and say, 'Ok, the numbers are good, now what about the future of Hibernian'.

We all desperately want Hibs to improve on the field of play but it cannot be at any cost. If someone comes along and says "I'm going to invest in the team, we'll be up there at the top of the SPL", the first thing I would ask him is 'How much are you going to invest in the team?' and more importantly, 'Where is that money coming from?'. Do we really believe that someone is going to buy Hibs, plough serious money into the team from their own pockets? We are not talking thousands here. Hibs are currently investing thousands in the team and frankly it gets you very little these days. If it was that easy would we not be happening now? If someone ploughs money into Hibs it is money leveraged against some asset and it won't be their house the creditors go after if it all goes Lithuanian on us!

Do I think this regime has acheieved some great things for Hibs? Yes I do. Do I think this regime could have done better for us? I certainly do. Do I think they could have taken (or attempted) a few 'calculated' risks, i.e. Griffiths? Yes I do. Do I think this whole relegation shambles and even this takeover business could have been avoided without putting the club completly into hock? Yes I do. Do I think this regime has now accepted that changes had to be made, i.e. LD? Yes I do.

However, do I think this regime can psychologically modify its strategy somewhat and adopt a less rigid strategy? Alas, I cannot answer a definite yes.

Even though the merits and long term aims of a takeover seem 'honourable', nothing is assured. However, I am not against a takeover and though we cannot influence what bidders offer and we cannot influence what STF and his accountants consider a fair offer on paper, I see no problems with us as fans being more concerned with the long term future of the club and I just think it right that STF and his advisers feel it is incumbent upon them to try and ensure that it is the right deal for Hibernian Football Club.

Right, now back to Griffiths......

[Russ]

I still think regime change is required and too many people on here are prepared to think the worst of any buyers of Hibs rather than look at the positives. I know there is real North American based interest in buying Hibs and their motives are to make Hibs successful, not based on making a financial return or a quick buck by selling off land etc. To suggest Hibs will come Celtics feeder club just because one (or two) of the parties involved in the Low bid are Celtic fans is just nonsense. What about SFA and League rules and Directors fiduciary duty?

Sometimes Hibs fans lack of ambition for the club staggers and frustrates me. Yes we had a bad experience with Wallace Mercer but it seems some Hibs fans are happy for us just to exist and not to at least challege for the best club after the Old Firm.

It is between Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen who has the largest support in Scotland and we are the biggest underachievers in Scotland. Remember with the Famous Five (before my time) we had average gates of over 30,000 the only team in Scoltand who has ever achieved that outside Rangers and Celtic.

There can be a successful future for Hibs beyond STF and lets consider that future rather than suggest more of the same is all Hibs can achieve.

You say the lack of ambition by some fans frustrate you yet your ambition is to be the best team outwith the old firm ? What challenge have Hibs put up to the old firm in our history other than our glory years of the late 40's early 50's and a couple of seasons in the early 70s?.

Some people just have to accept the fact that we are not as big a club as they like to think we are and with our ground capacity as it is now compared to the old firms we never will be , no matter how good a team we can put on the park. They can out muscle us financially 10 times over and no amount of money by any takeover party is going to change that , unless we get an arab sheikh with billions in his bank account and that's not likely to happen.

I like the majority of Hibs fans are not happy where we find ourselves at the moment but our bigger picture looks rosier than most in the Scottish game if we can get it right on the park , and that doesn't necessarily mean throwing good money after bad to achieve it .

Look at our history and see how many trophies we won when we had far bigger crowds than we could ever get today and our financial clout was a lot more favourable in comparison to the ugly sisters of the west than it is today. Money won us nothing then and there's no reason to suggest it will now under far less favourable conditions.

In Sir Tom I trust.

[Gustavo Fring]

I still think regime change is required and too many people on here are prepared to think the worst of any buyers of Hibs rather than look at the positives. I know there is real North American based interest in buying Hibs and their motives are to make Hibs successful, not based on making a financial return or a quick buck by selling off land etc. To suggest Hibs will come Celtics feeder club just because one (or two) of the parties involved in the Low bid are Celtic fans is just nonsense. What about SFA and League rules and Directors fiduciary duty?

Sometimes Hibs fans lack of ambition for the club staggers and frustrates me. Yes we had a bad experience with Wallace Mercer but it seems some Hibs fans are happy for us just to exist and not to at least challege for the best club after the Old Firm.

It is between Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen who has the largest support in Scotland and we are the biggest underachievers in Scotland. Remember with the Famous Five (before my time) we had average gates of over 30,000 the only team in Scoltand who has ever achieved that outside Rangers and Celtic.

There can be a successful future for Hibs beyond STF and lets consider that future rather than suggest more of the same is all Hibs can achieve.

you've hit the nail right on the head

iv not read anything on here for ages but when this david low bid came about, 1 thing i was certain that hibs.net would be full of folk panning david low as some sort of villain and bumming up petrie and hey presto i was right

[carnoustiehibee]

you've hit the nail right on the head

iv not read anything on here for ages but when this david low bid came about, 1 thing i was certain that hibs.net would be full of folk panning david low as some sort of villain and bumming up petrie and hey presto i was right

So what has convinced you david low is the right man?

[ahibby]

you've hit the nail right on the head

iv not read anything on here for ages but when this david low bid came about, 1 thing i was certain that hibs.net would be full of folk panning david low as some sort of villain and bumming up petrie and hey presto i was right

We are not a big club due to poor football management over the past umpteen seasons. A good team would have attracted 10k+ season ticket holders which would have seen us one of the biggest clubs in Scotland. Unfortunately our form has slid down the rankings and so has our st numbers.

However, until we hear exactly what a new owner has in mind for the club and what their interests are in owning the club why shouldn't we be suspicious. Even though we became crap in football terms, at least our finances are reasonably secure with the current owners.

[silverhibee]

Few folk talking about EM and the extra land that was bought down there, i was under the impression that the land could not be developed down at EM so why do folk think all of a sudden if folk buy the club that they can start building houses down at EM, thought that was a no no.

Good to read on the PM board that there is plans to get more out of EM than we are currently doing just now, how good would it be if EM could pay for it self with income from other ventures.

How much is EM worth, not a lot i would think unless another football club wanted to buy it.

[blackpoolhibs]

So what has convinced you david low is the right man?

Nothing has convinced me he's the right man for Hibs, but in reality we've heard very little of what his offer was, and are guessing about most of it.

And as others have said, just because we have the wrong men in charge now, does not mean we should jump into bed with the first person that comes along.

But this bid and Kano's bid does blow out the water those frightened wee rabbits who kept telling us there was nobody out there willing to purchase Hibernian football club.

There are people out there, and if the Petrie out campaign has done one thing, it's shown us there are people out there willing to put money into buying a football club.

STF is not the only show in town, and he needs to be transparent and let everyone know just what he wants for the club, as i'm convinced he does not want to sell.

He's a man happy with mediocrity.

[Liberal Hibby]

It's what people are prepared to pay that creates a value

And what those who are selling are prepared to accept that creates a deal. I don't want Farmer to sell to the first shyster that comes along simply to satisfy demand from some fans for new owners.

[Gustavo Fring]

So what has convinced you david low is the right man?

where did i say he was the right man , i said there would be a load of folk on here lining up to say he is the wrong man - which there is . so what has convinced everyone he's the bad guy ?

[Russ]

Nothing has convinced me he's the right man for Hibs, but in reality we've heard very little of what his offer was, and are guessing about most of it.

And as others have said, just because we have the wrong men in charge now, does not mean we should jump into bed with the first person that comes along.

But this bid and Kano's bid does blow out the water those frightened wee rabbits who kept telling us there was nobody out there willing to purchase Hibernian football club.

There are people out there, and if the Petrie out campaign has done one thing, it's shown us there are people out there willing to put money into buying a football club.

STF is not the only show in town, and he needs to be transparent and let everyone know just what he wants for the club, as i'm convinced he does not want to sell.
He's a man happy with mediocrity.

Who says Sir Tom is happy with mediocrity ? A guy who chose to abandon supporting his team when the club needed them most still calling for new ownership and a spend spend spend policy.... oh the irony. Put yer money where yer mouth is , support the club and all we need to do is get it right on the park , that is down solely to players on the park , and the right management team it has s f a to do with Sir Tom.

[Liberal Hibby]

Did he tell you that he said that so that it would make the fans force Petrie out? That's what you said in your previous post.

Read my post again and then read the posts on this thread. Low is trying to drive a wedge between the fans and current owners. It's why he is unsuitbale as a new owner - regardless of his allegiences, business plan or bid amount (of which we know next to nothing about).

[Caversham Green]

where did i say he was the right man , i said there would be a load of folk on here lining up to say he is the wrong man - which there is . so what has convinced everyone he's the bad guy ?


Low and Lynch's previous and ongoing activities suggest that they are more than just Celtic supporters. Hence my fears about becoming Celtic's true feeder club or at least diet Tims.
While he came across quite well in the interview that was linked on this thread, in truth his comments were empty populism. Do you believe there's a level playing field in Scottish football? His frequent use of that phrase made me suspicious of his motives.
If there was a confidentiality clause over Paul Kane's negotiations then there will also have been one over Low's. Kane has honoured it, Low did not.
His subsequent statement reeks of sour grapes and blame-shifting and was malicious in nature. It also indicates that his offer was opportunistic speculation.
There appears to be a more attractive offer in progress.

[BSEJVT]

It's what people are prepared to pay that creates a value

I disagree

The seller places a value on an asset

If people meet that value the seller might consider selling it.

If they don't he doesn't have to and keeps the asset.

Your point is only relevant in a forced sale and there is no chance of us becoming a forced sale.

Loads of people acquire assets below and above market value, houses for example, but that doesn't change the underlying value

[Thecat23]

Thing is tc, we have folk on here(not you) saying they dont believe a word that stf and rp say, yet want to believe that they will only sell to a person/consortium who have hibs best interests at heart? Which is it? Cant have it both ways!

Yeah I know what you mean bud. I don't trust them 100% if I'm honest with you. I think there is more than anyone is letting on.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who says Sir Tom is happy with mediocrity ? A guy who chose to abandon supporting his team when the club needed them most still calling for new ownership and a spend spend spend policy.... oh the irony. Put yer money where yer mouth is , support the club and all we need to do is get it right on the park , that is down solely to players on the park , and the right management team it has s f a to do with Sir Tom.

Show me where i have said i want a new owner to spend spend spend? I want the owner to run the club properly, but he's never done that because he's been an absent owner since day 1.

We need an owner to run the club, not put a puppet up front to run it for him.

[lobster]

Low and Lynch's previous and ongoing activities suggest that they are more than just Celtic supporters. Hence my fears about becoming Celtic's true feeder club or at least diet Tims.
While he came across quite well in the interview that was linked on this thread, in truth his comments were empty populism. Do you believe there's a level playing field in Scottish football? His frequent use of that phrase made me suspicious of his motives.
If there was a confidentiality clause over Paul Kane's negotiations then there will also have been one over Low's. Kane has honoured it, Low did not.
His subsequent statement reeks of sour grapes and blame-shifting and was malicious in nature. It also indicates that his offer was opportunistic speculation.
There appears to be a more attractive offer in progress.



Very much :agree: with the small exception of the first part of point two.

[CropleyWasGod]

What's to stop someone buying 'cheaply' or at least well below the market value of a company's tangible and intangible assets and then doing a bit of asset stripping?

An owner who decides that the offer is not in the best interests of Hibs. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

where did i say he was the right man , i said there would be a load of folk on here lining up to say he is the wrong man - which there is . so what has convinced everyone he's the bad guy ?

His statement after his bid was rejected. It's nasty, ambiguous and does nothing to suggest to me that he would be anything like the right man.

[hibIBZ]

This idea of low's bid becoming a Celtic feeder club is not true IMO His bid has Malcolm McPherson on board who is a die hard hibs fan and would not allow anything like that

[Gustavo Fring]

His statement after his bid was rejected. It's nasty, ambiguous and does nothing to suggest to me that he would be anything like the right man.

i thought his statement pretty much sums up petrie in a nutshell

[Gustavo Fring]

Low and Lynch's previous and ongoing activities suggest that they are more than just Celtic supporters. Hence my fears about becoming Celtic's true feeder club or at least diet Tims.
While he came across quite well in the interview that was linked on this thread, in truth his comments were empty populism. Do you believe there's a level playing field in Scottish football? His frequent use of that phrase made me suspicious of his motives.
If there was a confidentiality clause over Paul Kane's negotiations then there will also have been one over Low's. Kane has honoured it, Low did not.
His subsequent statement reeks of sour grapes and blame-shifting and was malicious in nature. It also indicates that his offer was opportunistic speculation.
There appears to be a more attractive offer in progress.



are you on rod petries payroll

[Caversham Green]

This idea of low's bid becoming a Celtic feeder club is not true IMO His bid has Malcolm McPherson on board who is a die hard hibs fan and would not allow anything like that

He was rumoured to have McPherson on board. If true surely he would have been the best man to front the bid.


i thought his statement pretty much sums up petrie in a nutshell

IMO it tells us much more about Low than it does about Petrie


are you on rod petries payroll

And that response tells us all we need to know about you.

[CropleyWasGod]

i thought his statement pretty much sums up petrie in a nutshell

Really?

So it's RP that has control here? A 10% shareholder in a company has the power to reject a deal? If STF wanted the deal to go ahead, it would have gone ahead, regardless of RP's opinion or personal attitude.

A deal which, on the face of it, was giving RP and STF nothing for their shares, and nothing for the money that their company has lent to the club.

[Mikey]

are you on rod petries payroll

Can we keep this to a reasonable level of debate please.

[CropleyWasGod]

are you on rod petries payroll

There's no need for that.

CG, and I, are trying our best to use our own experience to shed some light on some of what has been going on.

I, like CG I think, want RP to leave. However, if you're going to hang the man, at least do it on the basis of facts and evidence.

[Bostonhibby]

Can we keep this to a reasonable level of debate please.

Aw, just when we were getting some really well thought out one liners as well :-)

[SanFranHibs]

Aw, just when we were getting some really well thought out one liners as well :-)

Yes, but Mikeys' is the best one-liner so far.

:greengrin

[Bad Martini]

SOME "facts" that aren't .net or anything else kind of facts...merely, "real" facts.

1) Tom Farmer owns the majority of our club.
2) He also has a nice wee nest egg for his remaining years on this mortal coil (a none too shabby £170m+ a few years ago).
3) He's getting on and doesn't want or need to hold out for a few grand on his "investment" (I dont recall him ever calling it that either).
4) He's also not holding out for approval or any praise from anyone on here or anywhere else...to be honest, if he'd read this board over the years, he'd be forgiven for thinking what a bunch of ungrateful *******s they are
5) Like him or not, he done what he said he would. He said many years ago he woud listen to any proposals/offers for the club, in the interests of the club.

...why do we have any reason to doubt he's not smart enough to separate bull**** from a good deal? Refer back to his bank balance and how he made it. He's no ejit. He's also getting on and I don't doubt would probably quite like to have someone responsible, with our best interests come along and take over, improve the club and move us on.......clearly thats no been the case though.

There is nowt in it for Farmer and he doesnt need anything he could ever "make" from Hibs. Ask yourself if all these potential new owners can say the same and/or have the cash when the **** hits the fan to keep us going? Or when the bank demands their money/loans?

I dont have blind faith in anyone but myself. But, I would suggest there's little in Hibs for Farmer...other than pelters from lots of our fans.

Til something and someone better comes along, WITH cash and a PROVEN record and a SOLID plan....I'm happy with STF. Investment or not. Our problems didnt start and end with Farmer...we've HAD good teams, we HAD good players.....our problems were caused by a stupid board selling our best players and replacing them with ****, sending us backwards when we could've been moving on in the football world....but that, is another story/debate/23049304 page argument :greengrin

ENDOF :aok:

[Lago]

Can we keep this to a reasonable level of debate please.
Sure can, bid rejected, end of debate, simple.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Celtic feeder club? ....... Asset strippers?

There are a few theories flying about with regard to the David Low bid. Whether it was rejected out of greed or altruism is open to question because of the lack of information available regarding the details of STF's / RP's side of things. I.E. what would they accept as a bid which was good for them and good for Hibs.

I'm not prepared to dismiss out of hand doubts about any bid for the club, even though I think if done right new ownership could take us forward. Its right and proper for us as fans wherever possible to question the aims and motives of any bid for Hibs. No matter what folks opinion of the clubs on field performance under STF's tenure, there is no doubt that the clubs existence as a football club which will not be asset stripped, or become some sort of feeder club is safe under him.

Because of this my support would certainly be behind any scenario in which power was given to the people whose love of the club over and above any thought of personal gain will ensure it is never in danger of asset stripping or being used as a bigger clubs plaything. I.E. us.

That is why I wish with all my heart that STF would come out now and say that he is going to start a process which has the aim of doing that while leaving the door open for new investment ........ how difficult can that be?

[Pretty Boy]

Just a couple of points from me:

1. People saying STF should 'name his price'. Firstly What kind of businessman works on that principle? Secondly by demanding detailed info from potential new owners STF is able to carry out his own 'due diligence' before any formal proceeding begin. This quickly discourages, or roots out, potential Craig Whyte, Charles Green, Angelo Massone types who have ulterior motives for their interest.

2. I think the point about being wary of welcoming any Tom, Dick or Harry simply because they aren't Rod is a valid one. I'd question the motive of anyone looking to invest in Scottish football at the moment who didn't have a persoal link to the club they were looking at. It's an extreme example but look at the mess Hearts got in by throwing their arms open to Vlad simply because he wasn't Chris Robinson. I know alow has said he won't go ahead without the fams approval but if he and STF come to an agreement there is very little we can then do whether we agree with his plans or not.

3. I really wish Paul and Forever Hibernian would get something out ASAP.

[marinello59]

you've hit the nail right on the head

iv not read anything on here for ages but when this david low bid came about, 1 thing i was certain that hibs.net would be full of folk panning david low as some sort of villain and bumming up petrie and hey presto i was right

Nonsense. I don't see anybody doing that. Maybe you should back that up or withdraw it.

[#2 Double Tap]

3.5m surely wasnt a serious offer......how much did it cost to build the stadium and east mains??

[blackpoolhibs]

3.5m surely wasnt a serious offer......how much did it cost to build the stadium and east mains??

Surely they are mortgaged and bought through players sales? :confused:

[brog]

Well said Brog...Ozyhibby deliberately trolling here as are others.

Facts are - there was contact between Low and Hibs, it's been rejected, a club statement released stating the contact and subsequent rejection and asking us to move on and concentrate on the derby...so for once, we should all take heed.

Lilies this thread to stop the trolling please Admins. For once the club have dealt with this in the right manner with their statement and they will keep us updated if there is any other interest I'm sure

Thanks! Just as a matter of interest I took a very quick look at the a/cs or public information of the other 3 major Scottish clubs & ourselves. Obviously Yams don't do a/cs & I hesitate to call them a major club! It makes interesting reading;
The Rangers have £30.7m debt due to their Parent co in one year. Celtc have a long-term loan of a minimum of £12.1m due to Co-operative bank. There's no details on repayment schedules, they appear to be paying interest only but there's also some suggestions true debt is £20m higher, but held in associated company a/cs. That may be a malicious Newco story! Aberdeen have to repay £15m in the next 5 years.
Hibs have a total debt of £12.1m, £5.8m of which ( at 31/7/13 ) was due within a year. Against that however we had £0.7m in debtors due within a year, therefore a net current debt of £5.1m. We also had £1.4m in cash. Much of our debt consists of a parent company loan, repayable at £250k a year & 2 mortgages repayable at £240k a year & variable, (£131k in 12/13 ). These are scheduled repayments which have been in place for years. The only major chunks of expenditure on the horizon are the final payments of mortgage 1, £1.6m due in 8/18 & the repayment of the £2.5m loan due in 7/20. My expectation would be that if STF remains in place then the final payments may be re-scheduled or forgiven. ( that's not a pitch for STF, just my thoughts ).
Basically to summarise, of the 4 clubs I looked at we have the lowest debt so we can put the nonsense of the highest debt in Scotland, (not that on its own that means too much), to bed.

[Caversham Green]

Thanks! Just as a matter of interest I took a very quick look at the a/cs or public information of the other 3 major Scottish clubs & ourselves. Obviously Yams don't do a/cs & I hesitate to call them a major club! It makes interesting reading;
The Rangers have £30.7m debt due to their Parent co in one year. Celtc have a long-term loan of a minimum of £12.1m due to Co-operative bank. There's no details on repayment schedules, they appear to be paying interest only but there's also some suggestions true debt is £20m higher, but held in associated company a/cs. That may be a malicious Newco story! Aberdeen have to repay £15m in the next 5 years.
Hibs have a total debt of £12.1m, £5.8m of which ( at 31/7/13 ) was due within a year. Against that however we had £0.7m in debtors due within a year, therefore a net current debt of £5.1m. We also had £1.4m in cash. Much of our debt consists of a parent company loan, repayable at £250k a year & 2 mortgages repayable at £240k a year & variable, (£131k in 12/13 ). These are scheduled repayments which have been in place for years. The only major chunks of expenditure on the horizon are the final payments of mortgage 1, £1.6m due in 8/18 & the repayment of the £2.5m loan due in 7/20. My expectation would be that if STF remains in place then the final payments may be re-scheduled or forgiven. ( that's not a pitch for STF, just my thoughts ).
Basically to summarise, of the 4 clubs I looked at we have the lowest debt so we can put the nonsense of the highest debt in Scotland, (not that on its own that means too much), to bed.

Just to add to this, the £12.1m includes just under £3m accruals and deferred income which isn't debt in any true sense. Deferred income will make up the bulk of that and consists of season ticket money for the 2013-14 season which had been collected before 31 July 2013. That has been cleared now but will be replaced by the corresponding amount for 2014-15 which is likely to be much lower.

Debt in the normally accepted meaning was just under £7m including a parent company loan of £250k and there was a further £1.5m 'soft' loan from the parent company. It appears David Low was expecting that £1.75m to be written off in recognition of his £3.5m payment.

[oregonhibby]

Just to add to this, the £12.1m includes just under £3m accruals and deferred income which isn't debt in any true sense. Deferred income will make up the bulk of that and consists of season ticket money for the 2013-14 season which had been collected before 31 July 2013. That has been cleared now but will be replaced by the corresponding amount for 2014-15 which is likely to be much lower.

Debt in the normally accepted meaning was just under £7m including a parent company loan of £250k and there was a further £1.5m 'soft' loan from the parent company. It appears David Low was expecting that £1.75m to be written off in recognition of his £3.5m payment.

As they say, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

[Ozyhibby]

Just to add to this, the £12.1m includes just under £3m accruals and deferred income which isn't debt in any true sense. Deferred income will make up the bulk of that and consists of season ticket money for the 2013-14 season which had been collected before 31 July 2013. That has been cleared now but will be replaced by the corresponding amount for 2014-15 which is likely to be much lower.

Debt in the normally accepted meaning was just under £7m including a parent company loan of £250k and there was a further £1.5m 'soft' loan from the parent company. It appears David Low was expecting that £1.75m to be written off in recognition of his £3.5m payment.

Thanks for that.
Is the £1.75m soft loan over and above the £7m or part of it?

[Golden Bear]

As they say, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

Irrelevant it would appear. WE should have accepted the first "bid" (good or bad) if only to pacify the Farmer/Petrie ootsters - I think that's the jist of it.

[Caversham Green]

Thanks for that.
Is the £1.75m soft loan over and above the £7m or part of it?

The £1.5m part is over and above the £7m. I call it soft because it's described as an inter-company balance rather than a loan, and doesn't charge interest - the £250k does and is called a loan.

[Jonnyboy]

Easter Road plus significant land at East Mains. The difference between Hibs and the others noted above is that they had nowhere to go. They were bust or effectively bust, Hibs is not and with STF behind them won't be.

If the seller is leaning over a barrel that normally gives any purchaser the edge over a seller. In this situation that is not the case. Normally businesses are sold as a multiple of NAV or revenues. Conveniently Low's bid will be based on the latter, the economic circumstances of Scottish football and their perception of the sellers need to sell. They have missed that the NAV is between £8-10m and the seller won't sell to people who do not have the best interests of the Club at heart or will not specify how they will protect the Club for us in the future. Also the seller is in no economic trouble.

So my assessment is that at £3.5m compared to a simple NAV basis at par completely undervalues the Club. It would be a great purchase at that number because at East Mains, there is potential planning gain on the unused land. If the seller - and lets forget the personalities - sold low they would then look and feel pretty stupid in a few years time when Barratt or Persimmon or whoever announced a major development on the land or a parcel of the land.

STF has had the best interests of the Club at heart for years. The ire seems to be against RP and Low is cynically using that to put pressure on the seller. Why did he not say STF is more interested in wealth management and only point out RP?

The thing about hostile takeover attempts is that everyone is damaged. It also makes people fight harder unless there is a realistic deal on the table. If they want to win any PR battle put facts and a realistic deal on the table - simple.

Just a view.

All of this and especially the highlighted part :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

The £1.5m part is over and above the £7m. I call it soft because it's described as an inter-company balance rather than a loan, and doesn't charge interest - the £250k does and is called a loan.

Sorry to be a pest but what are the total payments per year that the club needs to make to service the loans?

[Islington Hibs]

SOME "facts" that aren't .net or anything else kind of facts...merely, "real" facts.

1) Tom Farmer owns the majority of our club.
2) He also has a nice wee nest egg for his remaining years on this mortal coil (a none too shabby £170m+ a few years ago).
3) He's getting on and doesn't want or need to hold out for a few grand on his "investment" (I dont recall him ever calling it that either).
4) He's also not holding out for approval or any praise from anyone on here or anywhere else...to be honest, if he'd read this board over the years, he'd be forgiven for thinking what a bunch of ungrateful *******s they are
5) Like him or not, he done what he said he would. He said many years ago he woud listen to any proposals/offers for the club, in the interests of the club.

...why do we have any reason to doubt he's not smart enough to separate bull**** from a good deal? Refer back to his bank balance and how he made it. He's no ejit. He's also getting on and I don't doubt would probably quite like to have someone responsible, with our best interests come along and take over, improve the club and move us on.......clearly thats no been the case though.

There is nowt in it for Farmer and he doesnt need anything he could ever "make" from Hibs. Ask yourself if all these potential new owners can say the same and/or have the cash when the **** hits the fan to keep us going? Or when the bank demands their money/loans?

I dont have blind faith in anyone but myself. But, I would suggest there's little in Hibs for Farmer...other than pelters from lots of our fans.

Til something and someone better comes along, WITH cash and a PROVEN record and a SOLID plan....I'm happy with STF. Investment or not. Our problems didnt start and end with Farmer...we've HAD good teams, we HAD good players.....our problems were caused by a stupid board selling our best players and replacing them with ****, sending us backwards when we could've been moving on in the football world....but that, is another story/debate/23049304 page argument :greengrin

ENDOF :aok:

Good post. While I am inclined to think a fresh broom may be needed the rejection of this bid is wholly positive. Speculative and almost certainly under financed and I suspect not in long term interests. Change may be but not at any price.

[Bostonhibby]

Thanks! Just as a matter of interest I took a very quick look at the a/cs or public information of the other 3 major Scottish clubs & ourselves. Obviously Yams don't do a/cs & I hesitate to call them a major club! It makes interesting reading;
The Rangers have £30.7m debt due to their Parent co in one year. Celtc have a long-term loan of a minimum of £12.1m due to Co-operative bank. There's no details on repayment schedules, they appear to be paying interest only but there's also some suggestions true debt is £20m higher, but held in associated company a/cs. That may be a malicious Newco story! Aberdeen have to repay £15m in the next 5 years.
Hibs have a total debt of £12.1m, £5.8m of which ( at 31/7/13 ) was due within a year. Against that however we had £0.7m in debtors due within a year, therefore a net current debt of £5.1m. We also had £1.4m in cash. Much of our debt consists of a parent company loan, repayable at £250k a year & 2 mortgages repayable at £240k a year & variable, (£131k in 12/13 ). These are scheduled repayments which have been in place for years. The only major chunks of expenditure on the horizon are the final payments of mortgage 1, £1.6m due in 8/18 & the repayment of the £2.5m loan due in 7/20. My expectation would be that if STF remains in place then the final payments may be re-scheduled or forgiven. ( that's not a pitch for STF, just my thoughts ).
Basically to summarise, of the 4 clubs I looked at we have the lowest debt so we can put the nonsense of the highest debt in Scotland, (not that on its own that means too much), to bed.

B****r, faced with these inconvenient financial truths, can I just say.......STF oot, lowe in - especially because he seems to have offered £3.5m that might not be worth even that, if he did indeed offer that amount............:crazy:

Failing that the Aberdeen model seems quite attractive! - how are they going to generate that sort of money in Scotland over the next 5 years? - oil? - the solution to everything and everyone wants it.

[Caversham Green]

Sorry to be a pest but what are the total payments per year that the club needs to make to service the loans?

About £370k pa - there's no obligation to pay the parent company loans.

[Bostonhibby]

you've hit the nail right on the head

iv not read anything on here for ages but when this david low bid came about, 1 thing i was certain that hibs.net would be full of folk panning david low as some sort of villain and bumming up petrie and hey presto i was right

Ok - I will bite - I know you maybe haven't been able to read the analysis of Lowes bid, or possibly the detail of the thread recently but is there any chance your understandable desire to see RP move away has blurred your objectivity about David Lowe in particular and anyone else that fancies a bid for our club? - any thoughts now that some more detail about Hibs numbers have been discussed here?

No real point in anyone defending Petrie against anyone bidding as most appreciate that Petrie going, or indeed staying, in any shape or form doesn't change the ownership which is what the thread is about.

[oregonhibby]

Indeed, people should replace RP and STF's names and replace them with theirs and look at the bald facts of the offer based on the analysis done here, particularly CGs and decide what they would do.

[brog]

Just to add to this, the £12.1m includes just under £3m accruals and deferred income which isn't debt in any true sense. Deferred income will make up the bulk of that and consists of season ticket money for the 2013-14 season which had been collected before 31 July 2013. That has been cleared now but will be replaced by the corresponding amount for 2014-15 which is likely to be much lower.

Debt in the normally accepted meaning was just under £7m including a parent company loan of £250k and there was a further £1.5m 'soft' loan from the parent company. It appears David Low was expecting that £1.75m to be written off in recognition of his £3.5m payment.

Cheers CG, I was going to get into the accruals part but ran out of gas! :greengrin Unfortunately I don't expect this year's accounts to be so healthy but I doubt there will be a huge change in the overall picture.

[BSEJVT]

Surely they are mortgaged and bought through players sales? :confused:

Not sure of the point you are making BH?

Whether they were are or weren't doesn't change their value?

[HFC 0-7]

Low and Lynch's previous and ongoing activities suggest that they are more than just Celtic supporters. Hence my fears about becoming Celtic's true feeder club or at least diet Tims.
While he came across quite well in the interview that was linked on this thread, in truth his comments were empty populism. Do you believe there's a level playing field in Scottish football? His frequent use of that phrase made me suspicious of his motives.
If there was a confidentiality clause over Paul Kane's negotiations then there will also have been one over Low's. Kane has honoured it, Low did not.
His subsequent statement reeks of sour grapes and blame-shifting and was malicious in nature. It also indicates that his offer was opportunistic speculation.
There appears to be a more attractive offer in progress.



All assumptions and no facts. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Why haven't the club come out and clearly stated how the bid was made up, whether the bid offered money for the shares or not.

The club could easily put this to bed by telling us what the bid was how it was made up and EXACTLY why it was declined. Lows comments and hibs comments are open to interpretation and leave out detail as to what happened. I think your feeder club theory is off the mark, we don't produce enough talent to be a feeder club for a team like Celtic. People seemed to have panicked and their imaginations have gone into overdrive. I am not saying we should go for low's bid, but I would like to hear more about it, and I would like the club to be a lot more transparent about it.

[Liberal Hibby]

I am not saying we should go for low's bid, but I would like to hear more about it, and I would like the club to be a lot more transparent about it.

Surely it is up to the bidder to be transparent too? Low's bid basically said - if it's accepted we'll tell you the details and then we'll get the fans on board. If bidders want to be accepted they'll have to do much better than Low in detailing their structure, key players, financial position and actually engage with fans rather than talk about being 'green enough'.

I am struggling to understand how anyone with the long term interest of Hibs would think the Low bid is the way forward - other than an irrational wish to see Farmer and Petrie gone at any cost.

[brog]

All assumptions and no facts. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Why haven't the club come out and clearly stated how the bid was made up, whether the bid offered money for the shares or not.

The club could easily put this to bed by telling us what the bid was how it was made up and EXACTLY why it was declined. Lows comments and hibs comments are open to interpretation and leave out detail as to what happened. I think your feeder club theory is off the mark, we don't produce enough talent to be a feeder club for a team like Celtic. People seemed to have panicked and their imaginations have gone into overdrive. I am not saying we should go for low's bid, but I would like to hear more about it, and I would like the club to be a lot more transparent about it.

Nothing to stop Low being transparent about it either is there? As you say his comments are open to interpretation.

[Caversham Green]

All assumptions and no facts. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Why haven't the club come out and clearly stated how the bid was made up, whether the bid offered money for the shares or not.

The club could easily put this to bed by telling us what the bid was how it was made up and EXACTLY why it was declined. Lows comments and hibs comments are open to interpretation and leave out detail as to what happened. I think your feeder club theory is off the mark, we don't produce enough talent to be a feeder club for a team like Celtic. People seemed to have panicked and their imaginations have gone into overdrive. I am not saying we should go for low's bid, but I would like to hear more about it, and I would like the club to be a lot more transparent about it.

The question was "what has convinced everyone Low is the bad guy" and I answered with the factors that moved me to that conclusion - others are free to draw their own conclusions from the information available. My very first reaction was that the deal had been done because Low was talking openly about it in the press and I have no doubt the same confidentiality provisions were in place that had restricted what Paul Kane can say. My second reaction when reading about Low and Lynch was that their intention was to turn Hibs into a feeder club because we're a lower league side with excellent training facilities and a disgruntled and diminishing support - ideal for farming out and developing young players if you don't support the club. We don't currently produce enough talent but we do have the potential to do so.

As far as Low's statement is concerned, unless he's a fool he will have chosen his words very carefully and I stand by my interpretation of those words. Again others are free to draw their own conclusions but I've seen nothing so far that would make me change mine.

[madhibby]

The question was "what has convinced everyone Low is the bad guy" and I answered with the factors that moved me to that conclusion - others are free to draw their own conclusions from the information available. My very first reaction was that the deal had been done because Low was talking openly about it in the press and I have no doubt the same confidentiality provisions were in place that had restricted what Paul Kane can say. My second reaction when reading about Low and Lynch was that their intention was to turn Hibs into a feeder club because we're a lower league side with excellent training facilities and a disgruntled and diminishing support - ideal for farming out and developing young players if you don't support the club. We don't currently produce enough talent but we do have the potential to do so.

As far as Low's statement is concerned, unless he's a fool he will have chosen his words very carefully and I stand by my interpretation of those words. Again others are free to draw their own conclusions but I've seen nothing so far that would make me change mine.

Previous posts from myself have made it clear that I disagree with this interpretation. Hibs should publish the information that led the owners “independent” adviser come to the conclusion that the bid was not in the best interest of the club. Confidentiality restrictions imposed by the owners do the supporters no favours.

Your view that the Low bid is about turning Hibs into a Celtic feeder club is just an opinion and one I think there is no evidence to support that view.

I do remember on the Hearts fiasco yourself and a few other posters were the financial experts on what would happen to Hearts and you seemed to get that wrong so I take what you say as a accountant and a finance expert with a pinch of salt (and I am an accountant myself!)

[Cropley10]

I still think regime change is required and too many people on here are prepared to think the worst of any buyers of Hibs rather than look at the positives. I know there is real North American based interest in buying Hibs and their motives are to make Hibs successful, not based on making a financial return or a quick buck by selling off land etc. To suggest Hibs will come Celtics feeder club just because one (or two) of the parties involved in the Low bid are Celtic fans is just nonsense. What about SFA and League rules and Directors fiduciary duty?

Sometimes Hibs fans lack of ambition for the club staggers and frustrates me. Yes we had a bad experience with Wallace Mercer but it seems some Hibs fans are happy for us just to exist and not to at least challege for the best club after the Old Firm.

It is between Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen who has the largest support in Scotland and we are the biggest underachievers in Scotland. Remember with the Famous Five (before my time) we had average gates of over 30,000 the only team in Scoltand who has ever achieved that outside Rangers and Celtic.

There can be a successful future for Hibs beyond STF and lets consider that future rather than suggest more of the same is all Hibs can achieve.

Great post. Currently the limit of our ambition is to survive.

[marinello59]

Previous posts from myself have made it clear that I disagree with this interpretation. Hibs should publish the information that led the owners “independent” adviser come to the conclusion that the bid was not in the best interest of the club. Confidentiality restrictions imposed by the owners do the supporters no favours.

Your view that the Low bid is about turning Hibs into a Celtic feeder club is just an opinion and one I think there is no evidence to support that view.

I do remember on the Hearts fiasco yourself and a few other posters were the financial experts on what would happen to Hearts and you seemed to get that wrong so I take what you say as a accountant and a finance expert with a pinch of salt (and I am an accountant myself!)

So does that entitle you to make derogatory ( and inaccurate) personal digs? No need for that really is there? Sad stuff.

[Beefster]

I do remember on the Hearts fiasco yourself and a few other posters were the financial experts on what would happen to Hearts and you seemed to get that wrong so I take what you say as a accountant and a finance expert with a pinch of salt

Other folk might be too polite to tell you bluntly so I'll step up - this bit is utter horsecock.

[Caversham Green]

Previous posts from myself have made it clear that I disagree with this interpretation. Hibs should publish the information that led the owners “independent” adviser come to the conclusion that the bid was not in the best interest of the club. Confidentiality restrictions imposed by the owners do the supporters no favours.

Your view that the Low bid is about turning Hibs into a Celtic feeder club is just an opinion and one I think there is no evidence to support that view.

I do remember on the Hearts fiasco yourself and a few other posters were the financial experts on what would happen to Hearts and you seemed to get that wrong so I take what you say as a accountant and a finance expert with a pinch of salt (and I am an accountant myself!)

My comments about the feeder club are indeed an opinion - I thought I'd made that clear enough. I've given my opinion on all matters in this thread and tried to explain the reasoning behind those opinions at some length - you disagree with some of them but I don't see any coherent reasoning behind that disagreement. Likewise, I don't recall you disputing any of my comments on the Hearts administration thread, but hindsight is always 20:20. I would have thought that as an accountant you would understand the desirability of confidentiality in negotiations such as these and that a full explanation of the reasons for rejection could run to many pages and would probably be counter-productive when other negotiations are in progress.

It seems to boil down to you choosing to believe that the club is lying and me choosing to believe that the David Low consortium was not in the club's best interests - for reasons I've already given. I very much doubt if labouring the point any further is going to change either of our minds.

[The Falcon]

All assumptions and no facts. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Why haven't the club come out and clearly stated how the bid was made up, whether the bid offered money for the shares or not.

The club could easily put this to bed by telling us what the bid was how it was made up and EXACTLY why it was declined. Lows comments and hibs comments are open to interpretation and leave out detail as to what happened. I think your feeder club theory is off the mark, we don't produce enough talent to be a feeder club for a team like Celtic. People seemed to have panicked and their imaginations have gone into overdrive. I am not saying we should go for low's bid, but I would like to hear more about it, and I would like the club to be a lot more transparent about it.


Could it be the bidder insisted on the details of the bid and those involved in it also remain confidential?

[proud_and_green]

SOME "facts" that aren't .net or anything else kind of facts...merely, "real" facts.

1) Tom Farmer owns the majority of our club.
2) He also has a nice wee nest egg for his remaining years on this mortal coil (a none too shabby £170m+ a few years ago).
3) He's getting on and doesn't want or need to hold out for a few grand on his "investment" (I dont recall him ever calling it that either).
4) He's also not holding out for approval or any praise from anyone on here or anywhere else...to be honest, if he'd read this board over the years, he'd be forgiven for thinking what a bunch of ungrateful *******s they are
5) Like him or not, he done what he said he would. He said many years ago he woud listen to any proposals/offers for the club, in the interests of the club.

...why do we have any reason to doubt he's not smart enough to separate bull**** from a good deal? Refer back to his bank balance and how he made it. He's no ejit. He's also getting on and I don't doubt would probably quite like to have someone responsible, with our best interests come along and take over, improve the club and move us on.......clearly thats no been the case though.

There is nowt in it for Farmer and he doesnt need anything he could ever "make" from Hibs. Ask yourself if all these potential new owners can say the same and/or have the cash when the **** hits the fan to keep us going? Or when the bank demands their money/loans?

I dont have blind faith in anyone but myself. But, I would suggest there's little in Hibs for Farmer...other than pelters from lots of our fans.

Til something and someone better comes along, WITH cash and a PROVEN record and a SOLID plan....I'm happy with STF. Investment or not. Our problems didnt start and end with Farmer...we've HAD good teams, we HAD good players.....our problems were caused by a stupid board selling our best players and replacing them with ****, sending us backwards when we could've been moving on in the football world....but that, is another story/debate/23049304 page argument :greengrin

ENDOF :aok:

Completely agree.

I also think it is a bit rich for Low to complain that RP and STF rejected the bid because of concerns about their personal wealth.

[Malthibby]

In STF we trust, & I have seen nothing to doubt that thus far.
GG
ps Admins, the Madhibby name is very close in to Malthibby; can you please scrap Madhibby, on account of my being here first?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think the Low bid was ever going to be successful. Not enough engagement with fans.
Let's hope Kane & co are watching carefully and have a full PR strategy to accompany their bid, especially as they are going to be coming to the fans for cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

Completely agree.

I also think it is a bit rich for Low to complain that RP and STF rejected the bid because of concerns about their personal wealth.
He didn't though. He singled out RP for that criticism. That said a lot about him IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

Other folk might be too polite to tell you bluntly so I'll step up - this bit is utter horsecock.
You saying I don't have a horse's cock???

[Just Alf]

:shock:

[Ozyhibby]

In STF we trust, & I have seen nothing to doubt that thus far.
GG
ps Admins, the Madhibby name is very close in to Malthibby; can you please scrap Madhibby, on account of my being here first?

Can anyone with 'hibby' in their name be banned too? Lately I've been getting mistaken for a negative grumpy b****** and I feel this is the only possible explanation.
Hope this can be done soon.
;-)

[marinello59]

Can anyone with 'hibby' in their name be banned too? Lately I've been getting mistaken for a negative grumpy b****** and I feel this is the only possible explanation.
Hope this can be done soon.
;-)

:greengrin

[Deansy]

We have our restructure and we have huge investment in the infrastructure and management team already. It is essential to see investment in the team and we look like doing that. It looks like you can't get past focusing on one individual. The bigger picture is much more optimistic than that. Recent disappointments have raised a rabble and a noisy one at that but it does not help the club or the team when this minority of noisy fans create nothing but negativity.

Last time we went down STF financed our quick return through debt forgiveness and signs are that is happening again. I think it is time the noisy minority backed off and started being supporters again.

Everyone has their own opinion and are quite rightly entitled to them, but calling fellow-Hibees 'a rabble' because their opinions don't match yours, is OTT. The well-organised and well-behaved protest over RP's leadership was anything but 'a rabble' !. One poll amongst the fans gave a score of 92% FOR Rod Petrie to leave so neither are they a 'minority'. Don't get me wrong, RP has done a fantastic job re our infrastructure and finances but, unfortunately, the same can't be said to matters on the park. We've been relegated twice during his time in charge and his 'Business 1st - Football 2nd' ethos has led to countless insipid, uninspired, emotionless etc displays from various Hibs-teams over the years - never more so evident than in the derby-games !. 'Last time we went down STF financed our quick return' - imho, if those teams had been better financed in the first place, relegation may never have occurred in the first place. STF will go down in history for saving us and, personally, I will go to my grave thankful for him doing that !. However, it's well-known he has no interest in football (same has been said of RP) and I honestly believe he is quite content for Hibs to 'just exist' and nothing more. We are historically one of the 'Big four' teams in Scotland but if we continue in the way we have over the last decade or so, then that will no longer apply to us - attendances, season-ticket sales show that we're losing supporters and if this continues, I truly worry for the future of our club !. We are in dire need of a board/owner(s) who are more 'Football-minded', dedicated to ensuring success on the pitch and that we become an actual football-club again, rather than being famous for being 'well-run'. We are a Football Club, first and foremost and should operate on a 'Football 1st - Business 2nd' basis rather than the other way round - imho.

[blackpoolhibs]

Everyone has their own opinion and are quite rightly entitled to them, but calling fellow-Hibees 'a rabble' because their opinions don't match yours, is OTT. The well-organised and well-behaved protest over RP's leadership was anything but 'a rabble' !. One poll amongst the fans gave a score of 92% FOR Rod Petrie to leave so neither are they a 'minority'. Don't get me wrong, RP has done a fantastic job re our infrastructure and finances but, unfortunately, the same can't be said to matters on the park. We've been relegated twice during his time in charge and his 'Business 1st - Football 2nd' ethos has led to countless insipid, uninspired, emotionless etc displays from various Hibs-teams over the years - never more so evident than in the derby-games !. 'Last time we went down STF financed our quick return' - imho, if those teams had been better financed in the first place, relegation may never have occurred in the first place. STF will go down in history for saving us and, personally, I will go to my grave thankful for him doing that !. However, it's well-known he has no interest in football (same has been said of RP) and I honestly believe he is quite content for Hibs to 'just exist' and nothing more. We are historically one of the 'Big four' teams in Scotland but if we continue in the way we have over the last decade or so, then that will no longer apply to us - attendances, season-ticket sales show that we're losing supporters and if this continues, I truly worry for the future of our club !. We are in dire need of a board/owner(s) who are more 'Football-minded', dedicated to ensuring success on the pitch and that we become an actual football-club again, rather than being famous for being 'well-run'. We are a Football Club, first and foremost and should operate on a 'Football 1st - Business 2nd' basis rather than the other way round - imho.


Has he really done such a good job, we have debt. We are in the 2nd tier of a football backwater, and millions of pounds has gone out the door in pay offs for sheite managers and players. I'd say he's been a complete failure, and we the supporters are being asked to pay for all his mistakes.

[BSEJVT]

Has he really done such a good job, we have debt. We are in the 2nd tier of a football backwater, and millions of pounds has gone out the door in pay offs for sheite managers and players. I'd say he's been a complete failure, and we the supporters are being asked to pay for all his mistakes.

I think even if we had been in the champions league we would have had debt as its long term mortgage debt, so that parts a bit unfair.

The rest is pretty much spot on.

I think the difference would have been had we continued the "upward spiral" because the "infrastructure was finished" the money made would have been reinvested in the team and the team would have performed better and ............

Its a great shame that we couldn't have maintained the progress started under Mowbray for even another couple of years longer than we did as things would have turned out very differently.

I personally warned him of the danger he was taking with undertaking both East Mains & the East Stand in such short order, but he chose to literally ignore me and many others and there's no question that investment in the team was compromised.

Its hard to believe that he could have appointed so many numpties in succession and then compounded that by backing them far too long and letting them blow what little cash there was on absolute dross.

His post League Cup tenure reads like a lesson in how to **** up totally the management of a football club and for that reason he simply has to go.

There is a lesson in there though and its the fact that he got seduced by the success of the golden generation, upward spiral and cup win into believing he was the all seeing all knowing oracle and took on far to large a bet, without the funds to cover it or the ability to play a different hand if the game changed.

My judgement on any potential takeover is compromised by that lesson as I wouldn't want live through the last 7 years again if another grand plan went tits up.

I am encouraged by the appointment of LD and the others and my hope would be that having more football people at the club will put a stop to the total mismanagement of the football team.

That depends I suppose on whether they are the right people. Time will tell.

It is however a long road back from where we are to where we should be and its a journey I hope we wont be sharing with him.

[Brooster]

I've not read much of this thread so apologies if this has been covered but what makes Low think he can buy the club for £3.5m when east mains alone is worth over £6m?

[NW]

I've not read much of this thread so apologies if this has been covered but what makes Low think he can buy the club for £3.5m when east mains alone is worth over £6m?

£6m? That's maybe cost but value???

[Jack]

Let's be realistic re values. Realistcally what is ER worth? No one bar apart from a football team would buy it , also look at what rangers killie pars and hearts recently all sold ground for.

Personally speaking I hope any 'investors' would be buying Hibs to carry on as a football club.

Maybe that's where the issue is.

Carpetbaggers: The land is only worth £3.5m. It's only worth more with all these facilities to a football club and that's a niche market.

STF and RP: We are a football club.*

*I appreciate it was probably the advisers that told them.

[Brooster]

£6m? That's maybe cost but value???

What is East Mains and surrounding land worth?

[NW]

What is East Mains and surrounding land worth?

Depends on usage I would say. Land worth maybe tops 1 m, academy only worth more if has long term tenant.

All in my opinion

[Just Alf]

East mains used to get young players from Newcastle/Sunderland plus extras from the surrounding NE area for training... "We" must have been doing something right at one point... If only we could get back to that. There's bound to be a positive knock on effect?

[judas]

horsecock.

:shocked:

Lol.

[Jack]

The reality is it's not a sellers market.

Whatever STF spent or has invested in Hibs the chances of him ever seeing that money again are slim, almost non-existent.

People constantly bringing up what he's forked out over 20 years are missing the point. IMHO.

Being inquisitive here with no malice intended.

What has STF forked out over the years?

[ahibby]

What is East Mains and surrounding land worth?

I am sure that STF was looking far in to the future when the land at EM was bought. Around that time he made a statement to the effect that Hibs had been around for over one hundred years and his intentions are to make sure that they are around for another hundred years and more. That tells me he has extremely long term plans:wink: I am also sure that in decades time spare land around the training centre will prime for building and will release money to the club similar to the old car park sale at the stadium. STF sees that as a long term asset for Hibs and I wonder if any new buyer would see it in the same vein. You'd imagine they would as investors don't normally look that far ahead to make a killing but there is always that nagging doubt.

[ahibby]

Being inquisitive here with no malice intended.

What has STF forked out over the years?

RP has on many occasions gone to STF for money to pay debts. I was at a dinner about seven years ago at ER at which RP made a speech during which he looked at STF and said it's about time that we tried to give this man some of the money back he has put in to the club. A season or two before that dinner STF had reputedly put in around £1million, to help balance the books. Whether it was a loan or not I'm not sure but in addition to that there were other times when he'd put in £100k here and £100k there when Hibs were short. No one at that dinner complained when he made that statement and the tables were full of Hibs fans and ex players. RP also said that looking ahead we had to try and be more self sufficient and not rely on STF to bail us out each time we had a bad year.

[CropleyWasGod]

RP has on many occasions gone to STF for money to pay debts. I was at a dinner about seven years ago at ER at which RP made a speech during which he looked at STF and said it's about time that we tried to give this man some of the money back he has put in to the club. A season or two before that dinner STF had reputedly put in around £1million, to help balance the books. Whether it was a loan or not I'm not sure but in addition to that there were other times when he'd put in £100k here and £100k there when Hibs were short. No one at that dinner complained when he made that statement and the tables were full of Hibs fans and ex players. RP also said that looking ahead we had to try and be more self sufficient and not rely on STF to bail us out each time we had a bad year.

It will be interesting to see the 2014 accounts to see the extent to which STF has contributed this year. I say STF, but it is probably fair to say that we mean HFC Holdings, and the "loans" which the club has from them. If I have interpreted David Low's statement correctly, it is these loans that he proposed should not be repaid in the event of his bid being accepted.

[blackpoolhibs]

RP has on many occasions gone to STF for money to pay debts. I was at a dinner about seven years ago at ER at which RP made a speech during which he looked at STF and said it's about time that we tried to give this man some of the money back he has put in to the club. A season or two before that dinner STF had reputedly put in around £1million, to help balance the books. Whether it was a loan or not I'm not sure but in addition to that there were other times when he'd put in £100k here and £100k there when Hibs were short. No one at that dinner complained when he made that statement and the tables were full of Hibs fans and ex players. RP also said that looking ahead we had to try and be more self sufficient and not rely on STF to bail us out each time we had a bad year.

And yet he still employed that prick Petrie, and wished we had another 100 of him? The man employed someone to run the club in his absence, and he ran it that well he had to go begging for handouts. :rolleyes:

[Weir7]

RP has on many occasions gone to STF for money to pay debts. I was at a dinner about seven years ago at ER at which RP made a speech during which he looked at STF and said it's about time that we tried to give this man some of the money back he has put in to the club. A season or two before that dinner STF had reputedly put in around £1million, to help balance the books. Whether it was a loan or not I'm not sure but in addition to that there were other times when he'd put in £100k here and £100k there when Hibs were short. No one at that dinner complained when he made that statement and the tables were full of Hibs fans and ex players. RP also said that looking ahead we had to try and be more self sufficient and not rely on STF to bail us out each time we had a bad year.
These are loans. Which he charges interest. Only requied because "his amazing 100 Petrie's" has mucked up

Yes we must be self sufficient but very hard when continually paying players coaches ann managers who no longer are at club

[CropleyWasGod]

These are loans. Which he charges interest. Only requied because "his amazing 100 Petrie's" has mucked up

Yes we must be self sufficient but very hard when continually paying players coaches ann managers who no longer are at club

In the last accounts, £5,033 on a loan of £250k.

Not a bad interest rate, TBF.

[marinello59]

Depends on usage I would say. Land worth maybe tops 1 m, academy only worth more if has long term tenant.

All in my opinion

Keep talking it down. :wink:

[steviehibsleith]

Has he really done such a good job, we have debt. We are in the 2nd tier of a football backwater, and millions of pounds has gone out the door in pay offs for sheite managers and players. I'd say he's been a complete failure, and we the supporters are being asked to pay for all his mistakes.

In 1990 we had a stadium needing a upgrade no training facilities, threatened with bankruptcy and a twat trying to take us over and kill us

Sir TF came in and appointed RP and we now have a great stadium and training facility with manageable debt. I for one am indebted but you say a complete failure !

RP has a let down/failure and that has been addressed in Leanne Dempster is now in charge of footballing matters , she appointed Stubbs and I am happy with both appointments.

[Caversham Green]

These are loans. Which he charges interest. Only requied because "his amazing 100 Petrie's" has mucked up

Yes we must be self sufficient but very hard when continually paying players coaches ann managers who no longer are at club

There's a long-standing loan of £250k from the holding company on which interest is charged at 1.5% over base. There was a further advance from HFC of £1.5m on which no interest was charged. Total interest paid on loans was £5,033 in 2013.

[ScottB]

In 1990 we had a stadium needing a upgrade no training facilities, threatened with bankruptcy and a twat trying to take us over and kill us

Sir TF came in and appointed RP and we now have a great stadium and training facility with manageable debt. I for one am indebted but you say a complete failure !

RP has a let down/failure and that has been addressed in Leanne Dempster is now in charge of footballing matters , she appointed Stubbs and I am happy with both appointments.

STF / Petrie stabilised things and built up the infrastructure, but since that project was completed we've been on a steady slide down.

I welcome LD's arrival, but it's a good few years late. The earlier successes of the STF led regime are being tarnished by the decline on the park.

I'm not so sure we need new owners, unless there's some mad billionaire happy to spend money he'll never see again, but certainly the removal of Petrie from the club completely would be a positive step forward.

[Caversham Green]

Depends on usage I would say. Land worth maybe tops 1 m, academy only worth more if has long term tenant.

All in my opinion

That may be the case currently, but the car park land cost £375k and sold for over £9m after a change in planning restrictions.

[steviehibsleith]

STF / Petrie stabilised things and built up the infrastructure, but since that project was completed we've been on a steady slide down.

I welcome LD's arrival, but it's a good few years late. The earlier successes of the STF led regime are being tarnished by the decline on the park.

I'm not so sure we need new owners, unless there's some mad billionaire happy to spend money he'll never see again, but certainly the removal of Petrie from the club completely would be a positive step forward.

I do totally agree Rp should have given up the footballing reigns years ago .

[greenginger]

That may be the case currently, but the car park land cost £375k and sold for over £9m after a change in planning restrictions.


Come on you East Lothian Planners !:thumbsup:

[Caversham Green]

STF / Petrie stabilised things and built up the infrastructure, but since that project was completed we've been on a steady slide down.

I welcome LD's arrival, but it's a good few years late. The earlier successes of the STF led regime are being tarnished by the decline on the park.

I'm not so sure we need new owners, unless there's some mad billionaire happy to spend money he'll never see again, but certainly the removal of Petrie from the club completely would be a positive step forward.

I think the appointment of Hyland and Lindsay was an attempt to make the change immediately after the infrastructure was completed but for reasons that will always be debated the change didn't work. Let's hope this one does regardless of the identity of the owner and chairman.

[ahibby]

I'm sure interest payments are tax deductible so paying interest of £5k means paying less tax and you have £5k which can go back in to the club if needed (I guess that's the case although I'm not a financial expert/professional).

There's nothing wrong with STF getting some money back when you know that deep down if we needed it again, it would again come back to us. What other investors could we be so sure about.

STF isn't a football man and saw attributes in RP that were desirable to uphold the clubs professional and trustworthy approach to running finances. I agree that RP has made costly mistakes, some of which were made to appease fans and some were made naïvely when trying to maximize income for the club but not all of the mistakes were entirely his doing. For example, I heard a lot of Hibs fans asking for Butcher to be appointed before he was and therefore the fans have also made mistakes. I admire RPs qualities of honesty and integrity and no one can argue that he hasn't maximized potential income from player sales over the years. Hibs were well known as a club in a position which meant players needn't and wouldn't be sold cheaply. Having said all of that I have detested (it's not true strong a word in this situation) the way the footballing side of the club has deteriorated over the last ten years and it's hard for me to stomach because I saw this relegation coming years ago and spoke out about it and felt frustrated that too few realized what was coming. RP is responsible for that also. He has been a success most of the time when it comes to making Hibs a respectable, responsible and professional club in business terms and he has failed to improve our overall football prowess. It's time for him to plan on moving on but that doesn't mean we should be sold to any Tom, Dick or Harry.

[Weir7]

There's a long-standing loan of £250k from the holding company on which interest is charged at 1.5% over base. There was a further advance from HFC of £1.5m on which no interest was charged. Total interest paid on loans was £5,033 in 2013.

There has been interest paid on loans over last twenty years.

Lets not forget the fantastic rent the club pays farmer for ticket office. From memory was it £70k ish a year. Well over xa million cwe have paid.

Could have built many ticket offices.

When challenged about this at an agm they stopped publishing figures in accounts

[Caversham Green]

There has been interest paid on loans over last twenty years.

Lets not forget the fantastic rent the club pays farmer for ticket office. From memory was it £70k ish a year. Well over xa million cwe have paid.

Could have built many ticket offices.

When challenged about this at an agm they stopped publishing figures in accounts

The ticket office rent is £24k pa. HFC Holdings runs at a loss most years.

And those figures are available in the published accounts.

[ahibby]

There has been interest paid on loans over last twenty years.

Lets not forget the fantastic rent the club pays farmer for ticket office. From memory was it £70k ish a year. Well over xa million cwe have paid.

Could have built many ticket offices.

When challenged about this at an agm they stopped publishing figures in accounts

How are they allowed to just stop publishing figures in that way. Surely accounts have to be transparent?

[CropleyWasGod]

There has been interest paid on loans over last twenty years.

Lets not forget the fantastic rent the club pays farmer for ticket office. From memory was it £70k ish a year. Well over xa million cwe have paid.

Could have built many ticket offices.

When challenged about this at an agm they stopped publishing figures in accounts

I think that the word horsecock comes into play again.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm sure interest payments are tax deductible so paying interest of £5k means paying less tax and you have £5k which can go back in to the club if needed (I guess that's the case although I'm not a financial expert/professional).

.

We don't pay tax. We had losses built up in past years, which are carried forward to set against the profits we have made in recent years.

So, the £5k is £5k.

[BSEJVT]

How are they allowed to just stop publishing figures in that way. Surely accounts have to be transparent?

Honestly you are wasting your breath.

You could provide some Hibs supporters with detailed proof against every allegation made against STF and RP and they would still believe tittle tattle from disaffected people because it's suits their agenda and their chip on the shoulder mentality.

These peoples minds (such as they are) are already made up and like the keyboard warriors they are like to cast aspirations on people who have integrity they don't and couldn't aspire to own.

Whilst I still want rid of Petrie, it may be that things are finally on the up for the team.

I have to say though that some of my fellow Hibs supporters attitudes disgust me to the point of giving it all up completely

[Gustavo Fring]

I have to say though that some of my fellow Hibs supporters attitudes disgust me to the point of giving it all up completely

is that the ones that dare to call the current regime into question and get panned and besmirched from all angles ...

or the ones that are top level financial/legal experts that know the ins and outs of absolutely everything right down to the tiniest of detail and are never known to be wrong about anything

[CropleyWasGod]

is that the ones that dare to call the current regime into question and get panned and besmirched from all angles ...

or the ones that are top level financial/legal experts that know the ins and outs of absolutely everything right down to the tiniest of detail and are never known to be wrong about anything

Or the ones who take what is in the public domain, and exercise their independent judgement on that, rather than the agenda-led myths and rumours?

[flash]

There has been interest paid on loans over last twenty years.

Lets not forget the fantastic rent the club pays farmer for ticket office. From memory was it £70k ish a year. Well over xa million cwe have paid.

Could have built many ticket offices.

When challenged about this at an agm they stopped publishing figures in accounts

Quit while you are miles behind.

[blackpoolhibs]

In 1990 we had a stadium needing a upgrade no training facilities, threatened with bankruptcy and a twat trying to take us over and kill us

Sir TF came in and appointed RP and we now have a great stadium and training facility with manageable debt. I for one am indebted but you say a complete failure !

RP has a let down/failure and that has been addressed in Leanne Dempster is now in charge of footballing matters , she appointed Stubbs and I am happy with both appointments.

How long do we have to keep saying thankyou for saving us? And have we just to put up and say nothing while having all this investment, which has mostly been paid for by the fans?

Of course relegation is just part and parcel of this investment, and we should be happy to be playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, because we have a wonderful stadium??????

There is a middle ground in all this, but of course wanting the club to just punch its weight seems to be frowned upon, because we should look at the bigger picture.

Yet for me the bigger picture is watching a piss poor football team wearing green and white, the only reason we go to the football is to watch the team.

What is the point of having a quality football stadium, when the product on show fills it to less than half of its capacity.

Dont bother answering, i know the answer.

Have a little patience. :yawn2::yawn2::yawn2::yawn2:

[BSEJVT]

is that the ones that dare to call the current regime into question and get panned and besmirched from all angles ...

or the ones that are top level financial/legal experts that know the ins and outs of absolutely everything right down to the tiniest of detail and are never known to be wrong about anything

Excellent mate

Fantastic revisionist history

The current regime should be called into question, I and many others have and will continue to do so

besmirched from all angles? I take it that's irony?

It's one thing to question a regime and how it has managed its affairs in the same way as it is to call people out on their behaviour and comments

It's quite another to repeatedly cast false accusations about people that have been disproved time and time again, isn't that besmirching people?

This board is full of opinion some of it informed, some less so.

Some times opinion is overtaken by events.

You have a choice on whose opinion you believe and accept but sometimes applying a little thought to an expressed opinion rather than just blandly accepting it helps.

The issue raised isn't who is right or who is wrong, but about having a little respect for people whose worst fault is that they got some of it wrong.

[Weir7]

Quit while you are miles behind.

I'll decide

[Weststandwanab]

We don't pay tax. We had losses built up in past years, which are carried forward to set against the profits we have made in recent years.

So, the £5k is £5k.

Correct at present but there is the potential for tax relief to be given to future "assessable profits" assuming they are made or indeed if Hibs were sold o a Company that had taxable profits.

[BSEJVT]

I'll decide

Or will you just hear something from someone and rather than considering the likelihood of it being true just blandly accept it and regurgitate it for evermore?

Deciding upon something suggests having given it rigorous intellectual consideration and weighing up the pro and cons of the argument in the light of what is known about the parties involved.

nah sod it that's far to difficult it's much quicker and easier to believe that a man with over £170 million personal wealth is screwing a club he helped save for excess rent!

Did it occur to you on any level that any money withdrawn from the club reduces its value and for him would be like swapping change from his left trouser pocket to his right as he owns both the assets.

By the way he would also have to pay tax on the rent So he wasn't just swapping change he was dropping and losing some if it in the effort!

All it takes is to look a little further than what's in Front of your nose.

[Weir7]

Or will you just hear something from someone and rather than considering the likelihood of it being true just blandly accept it and regurgitate it for evermore?

Deciding upon something suggests having given it rigorous intellectual consideration and weighing up the pro and cons of the argument in the light of what is known about the parties involved.

nah sod it that's far to difficult it's much quicker and easier to believe that a man with over £170 million personal wealth is screwing a club he helped save for excess rent!

Did it occur to you on any level that any money withdrawn from the club reduces its value and for him would be like swapping change from his left trouser pocket to his right as he owns both the assets.

By the way he would also have to pay tax on the rent So he wasn't just swapping change he was dropping and losing some if it in the effort!

All it takes is to look a little further than what's in Front of your nose.

Save your lectures. Not interested. Farmer and Petrie out.

[BSEJVT]

Save your lectures. Not interested. Farmer and Petrie out.

Interestingly enough that's exactly the response I expected.

When the going gets tough or awkward questions are asked the tough.......fold their tent like a wee child caught with their hand in the sweetie tin.

Way to go champ!

You have convinced hundreds by the power of your logic and argument.

[CropleyWasGod]

Save your lectures. Not interested. Farmer and Petrie out.

Most of us are in agreement with your last comment.

However, there is more chance of that being achieved if we stick to facts and evidence, rather than some of the refutable nonsense that is spouted.

"haven't made a profit in years"

"£70k a year in rent for the ticket office"

... these being a couple that you have come out with.

[Weir7]

Interestingly enough that's exactly the response I expected.

When the going gets tough or awkward questions are asked the tough.......fold their tent like a wee child caught with their hand in the sweetie tin.

Way to go champ!

You have convinced hundreds by the power of your logic and argument.

Correct. Spot on. Too clever for me. I know the truth. Farmer and Petrie's patsies don't. #sheep

[flash]

Correct. Spot on. Too clever for me. I know the truth. Farmer and Petrie's patsies don't. #sheep

Ah i get it. You are like one of those parody accounts on Twitter.

[Gustavo Fring]

Excellent mate

Fantastic revisionist history

The current regime should be called into question, I and many others have and will continue to do so

besmirched from all angles? I take it that's irony?

It's one thing to question a regime and how it has managed its affairs in the same way as it is to call people out on their behaviour and comments

It's quite another to repeatedly cast false accusations about people that have been disproved time and time again, isn't that besmirching people?

This board is full of opinion some of it informed, some less so.

Some times opinion is overtaken by events.

You have a choice on whose opinion you believe and accept but sometimes applying a little thought to an expressed opinion rather than just blandly accepting it helps.

The issue raised isn't who is right or who is wrong, but about having a little respect for people whose worst fault is that they got some of it wrong.

hit me with some examples

[marinello59]

Correct. Spot on. Too clever for me. I know the truth. Farmer and Petrie's patsies don't. #sheep

Why don't you provide the evidence to back up these truths. There's a good debate going here with a vast range of viewpoints being expressed. Surely you can do better this?

[marinello59]

hit me with some examples

Fair request.
Maybe you could help weir7 gather up his evidence to back his "truths" up. :thumbsup:

[BSEJVT]

hit me with some examples

See weir 7 earlier in this thread

Anything by Edwards

There is a whole litany of it on this forum and some on this thread

I am not that IT literate but if you are able to search a particular word either Petrie, Farmer or STF should get you there.

[BSEJVT]

Correct. Spot on. Too clever for me. I know the truth. Farmer and Petrie's patsies don't. #sheep

Since I have consistently expressed my dislike for Petrie and the need for change you are going to have to explain that to me.

However inconvenient as it may be the truth is the truth and telling lies and besmirching people to use someone else's word isn't big or clever.

[RIP]

I think the appointment of Hyland and Lindsay was an attempt to make the change immediately after the infrastructure was completed but for reasons that will always be debated the change didn't work. Let's hope this one does regardless of the identity of the owner and chairman.

I had a lot of time for Fife and Scott. They worked long hours for our club. Both left with no job to go to although happily both have been successful since. I think Fife is up North but Scott and his family still go to more or less every game.

I've always felt they lacked the empowerment to carry out the CEO role as they would have liked. Maybe that's just a daft hunch - I don't know

[Nelly070]

I had a lot of time for Fife and Scott. They worked long hours for our club. Both left with no job to go to although happily both have been successful since. I think Fife is up North but Scott and his family still go to more or less every game.

I've always felt they lacked the empowerment to carry out the CEO role as they would have linked. Maybe that's just a daft hunch - I don't know

Yes Fife works up in Aberdeen

[Beefster]

I've not read much of this thread so apologies if this has been covered but what makes Low think he can buy the club for £3.5m when east mains alone is worth over £6m?

Apparently, if you're not looking to sell something and there is only one person trying to buy it, you should just accept their offer. I'm going to try buy some houses that aren't up for sale for £5.


Depends on usage I would say. Land worth maybe tops 1 m, academy only worth more if has long term tenant.

All in my opinion

The land at East Mains with planning permission for residential housing (and ELC haven't been shy about granting planning permission for the surrounding areas) would be worth a lot more than £1m IMHO.

[greenginger]

Correct. Spot on. Too clever for me. I know the truth. Farmer and Petrie's patsies don't. #sheep


You know the truth do you ?

The Club accounts for the past 6 years state the ticket office rent is £ 24,000 but your truth is that it is £ 70,000.

What does truth mean in your world ? :confused:

[J-C]

I had a lot of time for Fife and Scott. They worked long hours for our club. Both left with no job to go to although happily both have been successful since. I think Fife is up North but Scott and his family still go to more or less every game.

I've always felt they lacked the empowerment to carry out the CEO role as they would have linked. Maybe that's just a daft hunch - I don't know

As far as I'm aware, it was Petries stubborness in the boardroom and constant interference in their jobs which led to them leaving, lets hope he allows Leeann to carry out het duties without sticking his nose in.

[Mikey]

If anyone wants to check the accounts you can see them for 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 here........

http://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?37-hibs-net-Vault

They're stickies at the top of the forum page.

[The Falcon]

I had a lot of time for Fife and Scott. They worked long hours for our club. Both left with no job to go to although happily both have been successful since. I think Fife is up North but Scott and his family still go to more or less every game.

I've always felt they lacked the empowerment to carry out the CEO role as they would have linked. Maybe that's just a daft hunch - I don't know

I thought they did have jobs to go to. Scott remained a director with the community foundation until last month.

[RIP]

I thought they did have jobs to go to. Scott remained a director with the community foundation until last month.

Voluntary role?

[oregonhibby]

£70k per annum for the rent on the ticket office - an example - wrong.

When challenged on it at the AGM they stopped publishing the accounts - an example - wrong.

[Bostonhibby]

£70k per annum for the rent on the ticket office - an example - wrong.

When challenged on it at the AGM they stopped publishing the accounts - an example - wrong.

I'm sure a man in a pub somewhere said it was 70k so it must be right?

[Eyrie]

I'm sure a man in a pub somewhere said it was 70k so it must be right?

For something to be a fact it needs to be corroborated. Fortunately I read on the internet (in this very thread in fact) that it was £70k, so I'd agree with you.

[The Falcon]

Voluntary role?

Think they all are RIP. Leanne replaced Scott as a director and a few of the directors of the football club are also directors with the Community Foundation. Scott became chairman after he left his role as chief exec of the football club. Scott is now head of finance and IT at the SFA.

FWIW Fife went straight to the Drum Property Group from ER and Scott started up a consultancy business, SSL consultants.

[Bostonhibby]

For something to be a fact it needs to be corroborated. Fortunately I read on the internet (in this very thread in fact) that it was £70k, so I'd agree with you.

Man in pub also does legal advice, financial advice, marital dispute resolution, world political solutions, cures for all known diseases and unbeatable horse racing tips. Usually after 18 pints of lager.

[Russ]

Show me where i have said i want a new owner to spend spend spend? I want the owner to run the club properly, but he's never done that because he's been an absent owner since day 1.

We need an owner to run the club, not put a puppet up front to run it for him.
He runs it as a viable business , as stated from day 1 when he acquired the club . We were all more than happy when he stepped in and thwarted Mercer's takeover and if he hadn't we wouldn't be on this site now having this debate. For years you have been calling for a spend spend spend policy on the assumption it will bring success on the park and it will get you fair weather fans back .

[NAE NOOKIE]

You know the truth do you ?

The Club accounts for the past 6 years state the ticket office rent is £ 24,000 but your truth is that it is £ 70,000.

What does truth mean in your world ? :confused:

I don't pay a lot of attention to accounts coz most of the time they are double Dutch to me. Which is quite funny in that I have had to scrutinise quite a few over the years when I was working.

I will admit that I am at a loss to understand why Hibs would pay £24,000 a year to rent the ticket office when we have the stadium right next door. When the East was built why didn't they put a ticket office in the north corner ..... apart from anything else, on big ticket sale weeks folk could queue in the East concourse out of the rain. If we had spent £50,000 doing that in 2010 we would already have saved over £24,000. Why did nobody think of that at the time? Spending the likes of £50,000 once to save £24,000 year on year sounds like good business to me.

[Russ]

SOME "facts" that aren't .net or anything else kind of facts...merely, "real" facts.

1) Tom Farmer owns the majority of our club.
2) He also has a nice wee nest egg for his remaining years on this mortal coil (a none too shabby £170m+ a few years ago).
3) He's getting on and doesn't want or need to hold out for a few grand on his "investment" (I dont recall him ever calling it that either).
4) He's also not holding out for approval or any praise from anyone on here or anywhere else...to be honest, if he'd read this board over the years, he'd be forgiven for thinking what a bunch of ungrateful *******s they are
5) Like him or not, he done what he said he would. He said many years ago he woud listen to any proposals/offers for the club, in the interests of the club.

...why do we have any reason to doubt he's not smart enough to separate bull**** from a good deal? Refer back to his bank balance and how he made it. He's no ejit. He's also getting on and I don't doubt would probably quite like to have someone responsible, with our best interests come along and take over, improve the club and move us on.......clearly thats no been the case though.

There is nowt in it for Farmer and he doesnt need anything he could ever "make" from Hibs. Ask yourself if all these potential new owners can say the same and/or have the cash when the **** hits the fan to keep us going? Or when the bank demands their money/loans?

I dont have blind faith in anyone but myself. But, I would suggest there's little in Hibs for Farmer...other than pelters from lots of our fans.

Til something and someone better comes along, WITH cash and a PROVEN record and a SOLID plan....I'm happy with STF. Investment or not. Our problems didnt start and end with Farmer...we've HAD good teams, we HAD good players.....our problems were caused by a stupid board selling our best players and replacing them with ****, sending us backwards when we could've been moving on in the football world....but that, is another story/debate/23049304 page argument :greengrin

ENDOF :aok:

Spoken like a true Hibby...:top marks

[grunt]

If anyone wants to check the accounts you can see them for 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 here........

Where's 2008? #ocdondisplay

[blackpoolhibs]

He runs it as a viable business , as stated from day 1 when he acquired the club . We were all more than happy when he stepped in and thwarted Mercer's takeover and if he hadn't we wouldn't be on this site now having this debate. For years you have been calling for a spend spend spend policy on the assumption it will bring success on the park and it will get you fair weather fans back .

Thats complete bollox, i have wanted the club to spend whatever it spends better. And the only way thats going to be achieved is if we have a new owner or a completely new way the club is run.

Farmer owns the club, and Petrie has been running it for him. BADLY.

Now we have Dempster running things, it might be run better, but once again we have to be bloody patient, and lots of fans have said sod that and had enough.

I have never wanted the club to spend spend spend, you can twist what i have said all you like, but thats complete bollox.

In fact i am on record here saying Petrie has given and backed EVERY manager all the tools he's needed, but the FACT that he's employed every numpty who's wasted all that money makes him just as much to blame than the clowns he's appointed.

Just how much more money should we spend spend spend to finish higher than Ross ****in County?

[Mikey]

Where's 2008? #ocdondisplay

Same place as 2006 and before. Not there :greengrin

[Eyrie]

Man in pub also does legal advice, financial advice, marital dispute resolution, world political solutions, cures for all known diseases and unbeatable horse racing tips. Usually after 18 pints of lager.

Sounds the perfect guy to advise me on my planned takeover bid for Hibs. I see myself as the next David Low.

[green day]

Just read David Lows twitter feed(@heavidor).

Why would anyone with our interests at heart be hobnobbing with Fergus McCann at Celtic Park?

We should ignore this guy, he is not one of us.

Ask yourself, a cup final, where would his loyalties lie? It would be another billy brown moment.

[theonlywayisup]

SOME "facts" that aren't .net or anything else kind of facts...merely, "real" facts.

1) Tom Farmer owns the majority of our club.
2) He also has a nice wee nest egg for his remaining years on this mortal coil (a none too shabby £170m+ a few years ago).
3) He's getting on and doesn't want or need to hold out for a few grand on his "investment" (I dont recall him ever calling it that either).
4) He's also not holding out for approval or any praise from anyone on here or anywhere else...to be honest, if he'd read this board over the years, he'd be forgiven for thinking what a bunch of ungrateful *******s they are
5) Like him or not, he done what he said he would. He said many years ago he woud listen to any proposals/offers for the club, in the interests of the club.

...why do we have any reason to doubt he's not smart enough to separate bull**** from a good deal? Refer back to his bank balance and how he made it. He's no ejit. He's also getting on and I don't doubt would probably quite like to have someone responsible, with our best interests come along and take over, improve the club and move us on.......clearly thats no been the case though.

There is nowt in it for Farmer and he doesnt need anything he could ever "make" from Hibs. Ask yourself if all these potential new owners can say the same and/or have the cash when the **** hits the fan to keep us going? Or when the bank demands their money/loans?

I dont have blind faith in anyone but myself. But, I would suggest there's little in Hibs for Farmer...other than pelters from lots of our fans.

Til something and someone better comes along, WITH cash and a PROVEN record and a SOLID plan....I'm happy with STF. Investment or not. Our problems didnt start and end with Farmer...we've HAD good teams, we HAD good players.....our problems were caused by a stupid board selling our best players and replacing them with ****, sending us backwards when we could've been moving on in the football world....but that, is another story/debate/23049304 page argument :greengrin

ENDOF :aok:

Have to admit I have kept away from this thread as I thought it would be full of guff and counter-guff.

Bad Martini's post above has restored my faith. The most sensible overview that I have read to date. The honest truth is that we have invested in our team much more than many SPL teams. It is just that we had a series of rubbish managers, the majority of which were accepted by Hibs fans, and they spent it badly.

[Bostonhibby]

Sounds the perfect guy to advise me on my planned takeover bid for Hibs. I see myself as the next David Low.

Are you celtc minded then? :-)

[greenginger]

I don't think David Low would have been good for us.

David James Saint Clair Low to give him his full name comes over as a football carpetbagger looking for distressed assets he can get on the cheap.

Looking back at his recent past, I see he was one of the names associated with Charles Green's investment plans at Govan until the Blue Knights outed him as a Celtic Man.

Anyone willing to team up with guy like Green is immediately struck off my " suitable " list for Hibernian F C.

[Russ]

Thats complete bollox, i have wanted the club to spend whatever it spends better. And the only way thats going to be achieved is if we have a new owner or a completely new way the club is run.

Farmer owns the club, and Petrie has been running it for him. BADLY.

Now we have Dempster running things, it might be run better, but once again we have to be bloody patient, and lots of fans have said sod that and had enough.

I have never wanted the club to spend spend spend, you can twist what i have said all you like, but thats complete bollox.

In fact i am on record here saying Petrie has given and backed EVERY manager all the tools he's needed, but the FACT that he's employed every numpty who's wasted all that money makes him just as much to blame than the clowns he's appointed.

Just how much more money should we spend spend spend to finish higher than Ross ****in County?


Hit a nerve did I ? What backing are you giving the club right now ? You were in agreement with Rod when he sacked Mixu were you not? You wanted Yogi , a personally blame people like you for the mess we're in right now.

[blackpoolhibs]

Hit a nerve did I ? What backing are you giving the club right now ? You were in agreement with Rod when he sacked Mixu were you not? You wanted Yogi , a personally blame people like you for the mess we're in right now.

Hit a nerve my arse, :faf: aye because if you are going to tell bare faced lies, you need to back them up? And of course its my fault managers have been sacked, i take full responsibility. :rolleyes:

I never said i wanted Hughes, i had no say on who we got, just like i have no say on whoever we bring in as manager.

My backing the club is as a pay at the gate punter now, and next week against Falkirk i shall be giving my £22 or whatever it is to get in, do you have a problem with that?

The club can spend spend spend all of it before the window closes. :faf:

[Eyrie]

Are you celtc minded then? :-)

The guy in the pub spots the flaw in my cunning plan. I knew I'd overlooked some details so I'll need to get a lobotomy, develop a taste for Buckfast and invent a few Irish ancestors to be misty-eyed about.

[Leithenhibby]

Was PK not going to tell more about his plans this week? :confused:

[Keith_M]

I see this Thread has upheld the same kind of level-headed, reasoned debate it had the last time I looked at it.


:greengrin


"You said this."

"Naw, Ah didnae"

"It's a Fact"

"Naw, it's no"

"Petrie Lover"

"Petrie Hater"


We can now close the Thread, everything that needs to be said has been said :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

I see this Thread has upheld the same kind of level-headed, reasoned debate it had the last time I looked at it.


:greengrin


"You said this."

"Naw, Ah didnae"

"It's a Fact"

"Naw, it's no"

"Petrie Lover"

"Petrie Hater"


We can now close the Thread, everything that needs to be said has been said :wink:

No it hasn't.

[Juice-Terry]

Was PK not going to tell more about his plans this week? :confused:

That's what he said after the Livy game.

[Leithenhibby]

I see this Thread has upheld the same kind of level-headed, reasoned debate it had the last time I looked at it.


:greengrin


"You said this."

"Naw, Ah didnae"

"It's a Fact"

"Naw, it's no"

"Petrie Lover"

"Petrie Hater"


We can now close the Thread, everything that needs to be said has been said :wink:

You have a very valid point, if it's not going to happen how do they, (PK Gang) expect the fans backing when nothing is forth coming!...

[silverhibee]

Was PK not going to tell more about his plans this week? :confused:

He was tight lipped at the derby on Sunday.

[Leithenhibby]

He was tight lipped at the derby on Sunday.

"No news is good news"

I have my doubts :wink:

[Beefster]

He was tight lipped at the derby on Sunday.

That's good if they're formulating a plan and don't expect the fans to fund a large part of their plan. Not so good otherwise.

[ancient hibee]

1 they don't have enough money to buy the club

2 they don't have any extra money to put into the club


Other than that everything is going as planned.

[blindsummit]

No it hasn't.

is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

[CropleyWasGod]

is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

:aok:

[ancient hibee]

This is becoming a pantomime-full of low humour.

[Jack]

He was tight lipped at the derby on Sunday.

A first? :giggle:

[brog]

That's good if they're formulating a plan and don't expect the fans to fund a large part of their plan. Not so good otherwise.

You're actually pretty much spot on here B.

[NW]

Was PK not going to tell more about his plans this week? :confused:

The week is not over as yet and things are moving

[Leithenhibby]

The week is not over as yet and things are moving


Big news day today!! :aok:

[NW]

Big news day today!! :aok:

Progress is being made so that things can be done in correct manner

[TRC]

Could this be the reason signings are at a stand still?

[NW]

Could this be the reason signings are at a stand still?

I cannot see that at all, and still hope for new players in this window regardless of anything else.

[Beefster]

Progress is being made so that things can be done in correct manner

No offence but statements like that are meaningless.

[Keith_M]

No offence but statements like that are meaningless.


:agree:

Bland business speak with the intention to fob people off.

If people have something to say, then just say it.

[jdships]

No offence but statements like that are meaningless.

:agree::thumbsup:

Just as in "Political Spin" : nothing more nothing less !!
Absolutely meaningless.:rolleyes:
Remember the old saying " It's not finished until the fat lady sings " - that's how it will be in this instance
:flag:

[Spike Mandela]

Big news day today!! :aok:

Malky MacKay has texted his support?

[CropleyWasGod]

Malky MacKay has texted his support?

.... cue the line about "I hope he's washed it first".....

c. Les Dawson 1976.

[Leithenhibby]

Progress is being made so that things can be done in correct manner

Poor attempt to "drip feed" the fans. IMO


No offence but statements like that are meaningless.

:agree:


:agree:

Bland business speak with the intention to fob people off.

If people have something to say, then just say it.

See above :wink:

[NW]

Big news day today!! :aok:

Is this not drip feeding too??

[Beefster]

Is this not drip feeding too??

I took that post to be a slightly sarcastic response to yours. I could be wrong.

[Leithenhibby]

Is this not drip feeding too??

It was directed at you, hence the reason for "quote".

Your the one that's running the show if I'm not mistaken!!.... :cb

[NW]

It was directed at you, hence the reason for "quote".

Your the one that's running the show if I'm not mistaken!!.... :cb

Did you not attend a meeting yesterday?

[NW]

It was directed at you, hence the reason for "quote".

Your the one that's running the show if I'm not mistaken!!.... :cb

You are mistaken and you know that. There are many people doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.

[Leithenhibby]

Did you not attend a meeting yesterday?

:confused:

[Mibbes Aye]

You are mistaken and you know that. There are many people doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.

Just so I'm clear.

There are many people.

But they aren't proceeding.

(What is it they would be proceeding with?)

They're not even finding ways to proceed.

But they are doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.

What does this work involve?????

[Viva_Palmeiras]

No offence but statements like that are meaningless.

But in the 24x7 news world we live in the demand for repeats of breaking news every 15 mins what's a spokesperson/whomever supposed to do - radio silence has been a criticism of management over the years... Whilst oddly releasing news when there's something to say has been criticised too !!!

[blackpoolhibs]

But in the 24x7 news world we live in the demand for repeats of breaking news every 15 mins what's a spokesperson/whomever supposed to do - radio silence has been a criticism of management over the years... Whilst oddly releasing news when there's something to say has been criticised too !!!

:agree:

[Benny Brazil]

You are mistaken and you know that. There are many people doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.

Who are they? And what are the ways to proceed?

Why cant we have a bit of transparency - fans deserve to know who it is that is trying to takeover the club and how they plan to do it - especially if they are expecting the fans to get involved.

Otherwise - I'm oot.

[jdships]

Who are they? And what are the ways to proceed?

Why cant we have a bit of transparency - fans deserve to know who it is that is trying to takeover the club and how they plan to do it - especially if they are expecting the fans to get involved.

Otherwise - I'm oot.

Got to agree !!
These people are practicing the " Mushroom Syndrom"
" KEEP THEM IN THE DARK AND THROW THEM A HANDFUL OF SHONET EVERY SO OFTEN TO KEEP THEM HAPPY "
If they are " for real" they have to be honest /transparent to and earn respect of the fans .

Like you "Otherwise - I'm oot"
:flag:

[Beefster]

You are mistaken and you know that. There are many people doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.

I have a vision of 'many' people running about in trench-coats and fedoras talking to fake rocks and hiding behind trees.

[down-the-slope]

Who are they? And what are the ways to proceed?

Why cant we have a bit of transparency - fans deserve to know who it is that is trying to takeover the club and how they plan to do it - especially if they are expecting the fans to get involved.

Otherwise - I'm oot.

I think when D-Day was planned it was ridiculous that only a few people were given the plan until the day it was happening - there should have been more transparency via newspaper adverts / radio messages etc so everyone was clear......:rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

In 1990 we had a stadium needing a upgrade no training facilities, threatened with bankruptcy and a twat trying to take us over and kill us

Sir TF came in and appointed RP and we now have a great stadium and training facility with manageable debt. I for one am indebted but you say a complete failure !

RP has a let down/failure and that has been addressed in Leanne Dempster is now in charge of footballing matters , she appointed Stubbs and I am happy with both appointments.

Was Rod Petrie the only person on earth who could oversee the rebuilding of Easter Road and the building of East Mains?

With the amount of money that man has wasted, we could have probably filled in the corners? The only reason we go to the less than half empty ground is to watch the team.

That team has been in decline for the best part of 7 years, and apart from a couple of seasons the rest has not been that good either.

But dont worry, we have a wonderful empty ground to look at, and a nice training centre.

[greenginger]

You are mistaken and you know that. There are many people doing lots of work to try and find ways to proceed.


Has anyone within the group ran the bare bones of the proposal past the club owner/adviser/ Dempster and got the slightest nod of encouragement ?

In other words, is what you are proposing to propose likely to be considered by the Club owner as meeting his criteria ?

[Smartie]

One of the hallmarks of Petrie's transfer policy was never to comment on speculation and only announce something when there was something worth announcing.

When you're dealing with something as major as the ownership of the entire club I can't see anyone being loose-lipped, blabbing wildly and possibly jeopardising any deal from going through.

Whether we like it or not we don't have any right to know the inner workings of any negotiations. We should just focus on supporting the team and when something's put in front of us we can comment then.