The Takeover Megathread (David Low Bid Rejected)

[FRes Hibbie]

To be honest I hate anything that connects us in any way to Celtic. The only similarity between us and them is the colours we wear, in their case stolen from us. We were set up as a charitable organisation and continued to be so . They were set up as a charitable organisation for about a minute or two and then the whites and kellys of this world immediately saw a business idea. We openly supported Irish republicanism, to the point of almost being expelled from SFA , they never did. We had a policy of only playing Irish Catholics who regularly attended Mass, they never did. They have actually pretended to do all of those things as it has turned out to be profitable for them.
We have moved on to become a 21st century football club, very proud of our roots and our struggles back then. They are stuck in their 1970s fake Irishness that frankly is embarrassing. For someone to say "they're green enough for me"? What does he mean by that? We're almost Celtic but not quite? Celtic are my first choice but they already have guys richer than me? Not sure that statement gets me on board at all
We do need change, we do need to move forward, we do need investment but, in my opinion, it needs to be be because it is the right thing for the club, not to make profit as almost no one profits from football clubs. It has to be from the heart for clubs like ours. There is no profit to be made so if after a season or two these guys realise that, then what? Disappear taking their funding with them leaving us up **** creek? We need to be very careful and the fans have a big role to play in this

I haven't been keeping 100% up to date with this thread but I love this post.

[Keith_M]

And why is that? Because they have Celtic allegiances? McCann never really had any real allegiance to Celtic yet get delivered what he promised. I share Blackpool's comment - too many afraid and unwilling to share into any dialogue post Farmer. The Farmer era has in my opinion been a failure as to where we should be. If some fans are happy with that then I despair at their ambition levels.


Not true, he was a massive Celtc fan. Before he moved to Canada, he ran a Celtc Supporters Club.

I'm sorry but I can't get behind some guy who appears to have just jumped on the Bandwagon here despite having no links to the Club. He's the front for a group of Businessmen that he refuses to name and already abandoned one Football Experiment in England.

When you add all those things together, it really doesn't fill me with confidence. Yes I believe STF should sell up but I have no reason whatsoever to think this is the right guy.

[BSEJVT]

Is this another STF apologist? Do you think things will come good? Are you happy with our overall record over the past 21 years?

Give it a rest with this STF apologist ****.

What does he have to apologise for.

He has done nothing other he said he would.

You mentioned in an earlier post that McCann's era at Celtic deliverd what they said it would.

The problem for many with these supposed bids is that other than veiled hints about investing in the team that have said nothing about their plans.

I am not quite ready to hand over our history and future for that to people I know nothing of or of their motivations for the takeover or plans for the short medium and long term future of the club.

There is absolutely no chance investing into Hibs is a business opportunity, there is no prospect of seeing a return on that investment other than by selling it on again, probably to the support.

Would I prefer my club in the hands of someone with the clubs interests at heart, rather than people for whom we are sufficiently green.

Wtf does that mean?

We need to be careful that in our desire for change we obtain change for the better not for changes sake.

We need to be careful that we don't allow our animosity at Petrie in particular to drive us into an unsuitable marriage just to escape from the frying fan to the fire.

Btw anyone with a similar or different opinion to the above is entitled to it, the attempted demonisation of anyone with a different view to that expressed by the poster of the moment,on whatever topic, has been one of Hibs Net's less glowing achievements in recent years.

[Greenworld]

Sufficiently green..........This simply means hibernian have met all their required carbon footprint obligations. .......you can read to much into things ;-)

[bawheid]

He said its "green enough" for me.

I'm out.

[Kaiser1962]

My concerns would be primarily that it's not his own money he will be using and we don't really know (at this stage) where/who the money is coming from? Are these "investors" expecting a financial return, or even their money back? If they do they I expect they will be sorely disappointed on both fronts and if that is their expectation then we should steer clear of them for that reason.

The only person I recall who bought our club with another's money was David Duff.

[down-the-slope]

It's interesting to hear from other Hibbies about the Celtic connection. The guy is attracted to the club for its potential. He said its "green enough" for me. If his intentions are honourable give the guy a chance. To muddle along as we are is no option. The current non-executive chairman and owner are no real football persons so why put all faith in them. They have delivered off the park but not on where it counts.


What potential is that?


Football potential? - would be odd if you are not a supporter?
Money making potential? - Is that possible in SPFL, if it were it would be made on our backs?
PR / kudos potential? - just a way to raise profile for other business / vanity?


:dunno:

[marinello59]

It's interesting to hear from other Hibbies about the Celtic connection. The guy is attracted to the club for its potential. He said its "green enough" for me. If his intentions are honourable give the guy a chance. To muddle along as we are is no option. The current non-executive chairman and owner are no real football persons so why put all faith in them. They have delivered off the park but not on where it counts.

When does a businessman become a real football person? It's a term that keeps coming up here but I really have no idea what that means.

[s.a.m]

To be honest I hate anything that connects us in any way to Celtic. The only similarity between us and them is the colours we wear, in their case stolen from us. We were set up as a charitable organisation and continued to be so . They were set up as a charitable organisation for about a minute or two and then the whites and kellys of this world immediately saw a business idea. We openly supported Irish republicanism, to the point of almost being expelled from SFA , they never did. We had a policy of only playing Irish Catholics who regularly attended Mass, they never did. They have actually pretended to do all of those things as it has turned out to be profitable for them.
We have moved on to become a 21st century football club, very proud of our roots and our struggles back then. They are stuck in their 1970s fake Irishness that frankly is embarrassing. For someone to say "they're green enough for me"? What does he mean by that? We're almost Celtic but not quite? Celtic are my first choice but they already have guys richer than me? Not sure that statement gets me on board at all
We do need change, we do need to move forward, we do need investment but, in my opinion, it needs to be be because it is the right thing for the club, not to make profit as almost no one profits from football clubs. It has to be from the heart for clubs like ours. There is no profit to be made so if after a season or two these guys realise that, then what? Disappear taking their funding with them leaving us up **** creek? We need to be very careful and the fans have a big role to play in this

I agree with all of that.

[gegs70]

We need change and I suspect that STF will not sell if he feels that it is not right for hibernian. However change is needed...I've not listened to the all the podcast but he does make sense however all details are still to be made clear?

[greenginger]

When does a businessman become a real football person? It's a term that keeps coming up here but I really have no idea what that means.

When the Club he buys start winning things ! :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

I have no idea what any of these folk who say they are interested in taking over Hibs have to offer, because no real facts have emerged yet.

That says to me we have to be wary, but not close our minds to them until such times as we hear the proposals.

Our current guardian anger is not a real Hibs fan, he hardly follows football at all. And his puppet is supposed to be a dons fan.

That combination has us at our worst ebb in my lifetime, a club relegated with a real chance of not being promoted first time.

Some folk are frightened of change, i'm actually frightened where we might go under the current owner.

[marinello59]

When the Club he buys start winning things ! :greengrin

:greengrin

[Ray_]

When does a businessman become a real football person? It's a term that keeps coming up here but I really have no idea what that means.

I can't say I've noticed it but I would imagine it would be like comparing Tom Hart to Tom Farmer. Tom Hart bought Hibs for his love of the club and Tom Farmer for his love of the community the club shared. Both honourable in their own way but very different people.

[Ozyhibby]

Me too.

If there's such good Hibbies in the background then the sensible thing, in my opinion, would have been for them to front the bid with him in the background.

I suspect that David Low has been chosen to front the bid because he has a level of expertise in that part of it.
I also think the shyness of individuals to put their name forward at this point is natural. You want to make sure that your offer is in the ball park etc. No one wants to be the next Pat the plumber or shoe salesman.
I think both the bids need to be heard out once they have met STF's asking price. From there we can judge the merits of each bid and decide which one to get behind. Hopefully there will be other bidders.

[Ozyhibby]

When the Club he buys start winning things ! :greengrin

I know your joking but it would be nice if that was our target under the new regime.
I've never felt under Farmer that we ever had a plan to win anything, just that it would be nice if it happened.

[Ronniekirk]

We need change and I suspect that STF will not sell if he feels that it is not right for hibernian. However change is needed...I've not listened to the all the podcast but he does make sense however all details are still to be made clear?
There was an article last week I read saying sir Tom has made it clear he isn't actively looking to sell but in looking at offers coming in he would be looking for assurances in certain matters so that he was convinced if he did decide to sell that hibs were in good hands going forward
anyone any Idea what these assurances would be and how they could be honoured if he is no longer involved at the club for eg is he looking for an assurance that hibs remain at Easter Road and that strong community ties remain and are actively pursued in the Lieth Area. Would he want an assurance that East Mains remains a club facility Nd isn't sold off Have no idea what they would be but more importantly how could he ensure any assurances were legally binding .?
Have never understood why he hasn't brought on board another investor with his business links you would of thought that there must have been oppertunities along that way for that to happen .
We will be revealing a loss when our next set of accounts are published so are current investors thinking sir tom Might want to bail out now and in thePetrie out campaign they see an oppertunity to try and milk fans along the way .
It would be interesting if when sir Tom does decide if he is seriously looking to move the club on whether he would meet with fans groups or representatives of them to spell out the differences of bids being considered and ask our view or at least explain why he is opting for one and spell out assurances he has got so we at least can hold any future investors to account if these assurances were broken .
Probably not made my point very succinctly but hope folk get the general drift of it .
We are at difficult point with winds of change process and one assumes Sir Tom would want to see that through now they have embarked on it .So don't see any quick deal being done and yet it's difficult to see new owners / investors not wanting to impose thier own ideas and put thier own people in .having just gone through all this change would this really be best time for more upheaval and the impact that could have on promotion challenge .
For me there are still too many imponderables but as Kano has had fAce to face talks he must know what these assurances are and if he and his business associates are serious about some form of fan ownership then I think we now need to hear more about thier proposal and Sir Tom needs to make it clear that is his preferred option and be involved in making it happen if that's what he thinks is best way to take club forward

[oregonhibby]

There was an article last week I read saying sir Tom has made it clear he isn't actively looking to sell but in looking at offers coming in he would be looking for assurances in certain matters so that he was convinced if he did decide to sell that hibs were in good hands going forward
anyone any Idea what these assurances would be and how they could be honoured if he is no longer involved at the club for eg is he looking for an assurance that hibs remain at Easter Road and that strong community ties remain and are actively pursued in the Lieth Area. Would he want an assurance that East Mains remains a club facility Nd isn't sold off Have no idea what they would be but more importantly how could he ensure any assurances were legally binding .?
Have never understood why he hasn't brought on board another investor with his business links you would of thought that there must have been oppertunities along that way for that to happen .
We will be revealing a loss when our next set of accounts are published so are current investors thinking sir tom Might want to bail out now and in thePetrie out campaign they see an oppertunity to try and milk fans along the way .
It would be interesting if when sir Tom does decide if he is seriously looking to move the club on whether he would meet with fans groups or representatives of them to spell out the differences of bids being considered and ask our view or at least explain why he is opting for one and spell out assurances he has got so we at least can hold any future investors to account if these assurances were broken .
Probably not made my point very succinctly but hope folk get the general drift of it .
We are at difficult point with winds of change process and one assumes Sir Tom would want to see that through now they have embarked on it .So don't see any quick deal being done and yet it's difficult to see new owners / investors not wanting to impose thier own ideas and put thier own people in .having just gone through all this change would this really be best time for more upheaval and the impact that could have on promotion challenge .
For me there are still too many imponderables but as Kano has had fAce to face talks he must know what these assurances are and if he and his business associates are serious about some form of fan ownership then I think we now need to hear more about thier proposal and Sir Tom needs to make it clear that is his preferred option and be involved in making it happen if that's what he thinks is best way to take club forward

Something along the lines of the following - and more:

• The current infrastructure is kept in place and that any purchaser has no ability to speculate on the property at Easter Road and East Mains and that the assets are not used as collateral to raise further debt or used for anything other than the purpose they are employed today.
• That the purchasers prove that they have the capital and access to free cash flow to service the debt and deliver at least the equivalent, if not more, annual budget to put a team on the park to sustain a challenge in the Premier League.
• That in providing that budget they are able to break even every season or on average break even over three seasons.
• That the purchaser provides in detail how fan involvement and ownership will work and that they have the financial capital and free cash flow to underwrite this involvement in the event of a failure in funding from this source.
• That the purchaser – or investor – is transparent about the source of funds, the vehicle that will be used to invest and how the investors will seek to make a return and eventually exit.
• Finally, that the purchaser or investor provides a detailed list of criteria and guarantees that these criteria would be used to protect the Club for it supporters in the event of a sell on – these being basically the above.

Then it come down to price I suppose.

The problem we have, in my view, is getting the right football management team in place and a team on the park to win games. These issues are being addressed. There are few owners in Scotland or indeed Britain who continue to support any Club like STF. I imagine he could come up with a way for more supporter involvement throughout the Club and that he could still provide the support he has so far.

We have performed poorly over a sustained period, nobody is denying that, but all the foundations are there including his financial clout. We would have to be very sure before we moved away that any new owners could do the same or have the deep pockets that when March comes and the funds are needed to keep things going that they can supply working capital.

LD is making all the right moves and it is all around the football side. I am sure she will address other shortcomings shortly.

[s.a.m]

I suspect that David Low has been chosen to front the bid because he has a level of expertise in that part of it.
I also think the shyness of individuals to put their name forward at this point is natural. You want to make sure that your offer is in the ball park etc. No one wants to be the next Pat the plumber or shoe salesman.
I think both the bids need to be heard out once they have met STF's asking price. From there we can judge the merits of each bid and decide which one to get behind. Hopefully there will be other bidders.

The quote from yesterday's EN suggests that we won't be hearing detail about the Low bid and bidders unless it's accepted. If so, merit judging won't be coming into it.

[Aldo]

STF saved the club from oblivion and will always be a hero in my eyes for this.

Yeah both him and RP have got the infrastructure of the club in place and it all bodes we'll however that's where they've went wrong in my eyes.

Success off the pitch (EM, crackin stadium etc) has not been mirrored in the park. This is where it should if been balanced a lot better.

I believe that if we get a team playing and winning then the fans will return.

I have been a fervent support of RP and STF in the past but with all the recent management/back room staff changes I personally think we need an owner that will show a bit of ambition and invest something in the team. I'm not saying break the bank but some ambition.

The fans will return if the team play well and win.

I think it's time STF sold the club and allowed others to come in and try and take the club forward.

2 trophies and two relegations doesn't just do it for me. We could and must do better

[CRAZYHIBBY]

I would prefer it if we were taken over by oil rich Arabs myself

[Jpdhfc]

I have no idea what any of these folk who say they are interested in taking over Hibs have to offer, because no real facts have emerged yet.

That says to me we have to be wary, but not close our minds to them until such times as we hear the proposals.

Our current guardian anger is not a real Hibs fan, he hardly follows football at all. And his puppet is supposed to be a dons fan.

That combination has us at our worst ebb in my lifetime, a club relegated with a real chance of not being promoted first time.

Some folk are frightened of change, i'm actually frightened where we might go under the current owner.

Status-quo just no good mate i agree with you

[BSEJVT]

Have never understood why he hasn't brought on board another investor with his business links you would of thought that there must have been oppertunities along that way for that to happen .
We will be revealing a loss when our next set of accounts are published so are current investors thinking sir tom Might want to bail out now and in thePetrie out campaign they see an oppertunity to try and milk fans along the way .
It would be interesting if when sir Tom does decide if he is seriously looking to move the club on whether he would meet with fans groups or representatives of them to spell out the differences of bids being considered and ask our view or at least explain why he is opting for one and spell out assurances he has got so we at least can hold any future investors to account if these assurances were broken .

I think the problem is that "investors" of any ilk want something in return.

Whether that's control or a return on their investment depends on their motivation and the size of their pockets

One of the most exposed situations you can be in is to be a minority shareholder in a business when some individual and /or their cohorts holds a majority share.

You can be voted down on anything that doesn't suit and can end up with zero influence for a substantial cost.

Its not really an attractive proposition and you could look at the Pieman's time at the Jambo's and his fall out with former partner (in the Jambo acquisition from the FTB) Leslie Deans as an example of what can and does go wrong.

In all honesty assurances aren't worth a damn, you only need to look at the amount of takeover's in the Corporate world and the litany of broken promises that have followed without any action being taken for proof.

If STF is seeking assurances, my guess is that it would be in the character and motivation of those seeking to takeover and for me that would rule out any speculator bid such as that proposed by the ex -celtic guy.

Personally I wouldn't give then the oxygen of publicity but am keen to hear more of Forever Hibernian's plans

[silverhibee]

Why don't you contact David and his backers and check if they need an official Hibs.Net champion?

You are doing a fabulous job on these threads


Did you think there hadn't been enought posts quoting the link already? Or is it just part of the publicity?

What's the problem Gogs, everyone is allowed there say or should everything be run by you first.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Three options then at this stage.

The status quo:

STF and RP ... Twice winners of Scotland's 3rd most important trophy and two relegations in 23 years. Great job off the park with the infrastructure. Is that enough for a club with our supposed potential?

Forever Hibernian:

No doubting their Hibby credentials, but if some on here are to be believed a bunch of clueless amateurs who couldn't be trusted to run a stall at East Fortune market.

The Low bid:

A bunch of as yet unknown investors led by a guy who supports the wrong Greens ... his use of the word 'investors' is not a good choice, there is little prospect of a return for anyone 'investing' in any football club. Makes folk nervous about how any return would be achieved.

What a mess ................ Time for all of these folk to get together and let us know whats going on. Like that's going to happen.

[Green&White]

Low's bid rejected

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-reject-david-low-s-bid-for-club-1-3508007

[Ringothedog]

Low's bid rejected

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-reject-david-low-s-bid-for-club-1-3508007

I have no problem with the initial bid not being accepted. I will only be concerned if all future bids are rejected as there appears to be no plan in place by the current owners to get us out of the deep doo doo that they have got us into at this current time.

[Beefster]

I have no problem with the initial bid not being accepted. I will only be concerned if all future bids are rejected as there appears to be no plan in place by the current owners to get us out of the deep doo doo that they have got us into at this current time.

No plan to get promoted?

[Greencore]

http://heavidor.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/statement-re-the-hibernian-football-club-limited-hibernian-fc/

Statement re The Hibernian Football Club Limited (“Hibernian FC”)
On 18 June 2014 I made an offer for the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings Limited, Sir Thomas Farmer and Mr Roderick Petrie on behalf of myself and other investors. That offer was rejected by Mr Petrie yesterday evening (12 August). The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC.

I acknowledge that both gentlemen are entitled to reject any offer they do not consider to be in their best financial interests and I accept their decision.

However, it is apparent that Mr Petrie’s decision has more to do with personal wealth management than any Legacy for Leith and, consequently, their estimation of the value of their investment bears no relation to the reality of the marketplace.

Regretfully, there will be no sunshine on Leith yet.

Best wishes to all Hibernian fans. Be seen in green! Serva Fidem!

David Low

Found on his twitter

Twitter.com/@Heavidor

His pictures about the rangers and celtic are interesting.

[Ringothedog]

No plan to get promoted?

There may or may not be a plan to get promoted, if there is a plan what are the timescales ? Is it one year, two years or more ? Our current owners don't have the balls to come up with a plan. They are afraid to set a goal and that is why we will always fail because of their lack of vision and leadership. The sooner they go the more chance this club has of reaching its potential rather than staggering along like a drunk with one and a half legs

[Beefster]

There may or may not be a plan to get promoted, if there is a plan what are the timescales ? Is it one year, two years or more ? Our current owners don't have the balls to come up with a plan. They are afraid to set a goal and that is why we will always fail because of their lack of vision and leadership. The sooner they go the more chance this club has of reaching its potential rather than staggering along like a drunk with one and a half legs

You said there appears to be no plan then said there might be a plan then said they don't have the balls to come up with a plan...

Dempster has said that the plan is to get promoted this season. Case closed on the 'is there, isn't there a plan?' debate.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Me too.

If there's such good Hibbies in the background then the sensible thing, in my opinion, would have been for them to front the bid with him in the background.

And me too.

[Elephant Stone]

Status-quo just no good mate i agree with you

It's been changed enormously, though. New manager, new assistant manager, new first team coach, new head of football development, new head of youth and most importantly, a new chief executive. All this change seems positive so far and there's a sense of optimism that's been missing for ages. Why is this 'no good'?

[Elephant Stone]

They had hoped to purchase Sir Tom’s 90 per cent stake in HFC Holdings, the club’s parent company, with Low claiming a “fantastic opportunity” exists with Scottish football enjoying a level financial playing field for a well-managed, well-financed club to challenge for honours and to “take Celtic on”.

Low, a self-confessed Celtic fan who was closely involved in Fergus McCann’s takeover at Parkhead, believed Hibs could be just that club, adamant that a change of ownership would help persuade disaffected fans, frustrated by the way in which the club has badly under-performed in recent years, back to Easter Road.

So we've got a Celtic fan here wanting to build a team to challenge Celtic. Sounds credible. :cb

[Lucius Apuleius]

Me too.

If there's such good Hibbies in the background then the sensible thing, in my opinion, would have been for them to front the bid with him in the background.

And me too.

[FranckSuzy]

To be honest I hate anything that connects us in any way to Celtic. The only similarity between us and them is the colours we wear, in their case stolen from us. We were set up as a charitable organisation and continued to be so . They were set up as a charitable organisation for about a minute or two and then the whites and kellys of this world immediately saw a business idea. We openly supported Irish republicanism, to the point of almost being expelled from SFA , they never did. We had a policy of only playing Irish Catholics who regularly attended Mass, they never did. They have actually pretended to do all of those things as it has turned out to be profitable for them.
We have moved on to become a 21st century football club, very proud of our roots and our struggles back then. They are stuck in their 1970s fake Irishness that frankly is embarrassing. For someone to say "they're green enough for me"? What does he mean by that? We're almost Celtic but not quite? Celtic are my first choice but they already have guys richer than me? Not sure that statement gets me on board at all
We do need change, we do need to move forward, we do need investment but, in my opinion, it needs to be be because it is the right thing for the club, not to make profit as almost no one profits from football clubs. It has to be from the heart for clubs like ours. There is no profit to be made so if after a season or two these guys realise that, then what? Disappear taking their funding with them leaving us up **** creek? We need to be very careful and the fans have a big role to play in this

:top marks

[Ozyhibby]

Seems the bid was knocked back because they wanted more money?

[Lago]

I have no idea what any of these folk who say they are interested in taking over Hibs have to offer, because no real facts have emerged yet.

That says to me we have to be wary, but not close our minds to them until such times as we hear the proposals.

Our current guardian anger is not a real Hibs fan, he hardly follows football at all. And his puppet is supposed to be a dons fan.

That combination has us at our worst ebb in my lifetime, a club relegated with a real chance of not being promoted first time.

Some folk are frightened of change, i'm actually frightened where we might go under the current owner.
Yip good post agree with what you say, but to me it doesn't look as if the current owner is in any hurry to move aside.

[Keith_M]

Yip good post agree with what you say, but to me it doesn't look as if the current owner is in any hurry to move aside.


The comment from Low seems to suggest that it's mostly Petrie that's the problem.

[madhibby]

http://heavidor.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/statement-re-the-hibernian-football-club-limited-hibernian-fc/

Statement re The Hibernian Football Club Limited (“Hibernian FC”)
On 18 June 2014 I made an offer for the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings Limited, Sir Thomas Farmer and Mr Roderick Petrie on behalf of myself and other investors. That offer was rejected by Mr Petrie yesterday evening (12 August). The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC.

I acknowledge that both gentlemen are entitled to reject any offer they do not consider to be in their best financial interests and I accept their decision.

However, it is apparent that Mr Petrie’s decision has more to do with personal wealth management than any Legacy for Leith and, consequently, their estimation of the value of their investment bears no relation to the reality of the marketplace.

Regretfully, there will be no sunshine on Leith yet.

Best wishes to all Hibernian fans. Be seen in green! Serva Fidem!

David Low

Found on his twitter

Twitter.com/@Heavidor

His pictures about the rangers and celtic are interesting.

I would hope the owners of Hibs make available to the public (and therefore to Hibs fans) some statement on why the bid was rejected. I tend to agree that £3.5m seems a reasonable bid so we need some justification why it was rejected. My understanding STF does not need the money and wants Hibs to go to “safe hands that can take the club forward”. The fans deserve to know what scuppered this.

[bawheid]

Guy comes across like a complete fud in his statement. It's a big no thanks from me.

[oregonhibby]

Might be wrong but I thought it was "fidem servare" : keep the faith. Probably me as latin was not my strongest subject! It was placed in the public domain by the potential investors and has been rejected publicly by the owners. I take it this means we will have the distraction of attacks, personal and otherwise, against RP at a time when we need to focus on the football as he seems to have been singled out.

Time to support the team.

[Golden Bear]

Guy comes across like a complete fud in his statement. It's a big no thanks from me.


:agree:

His statement smacks of sour grapes and at the same time he's intent on stirring things up.

[Spike Mandela]

Ignoring the irrelevant sideshow of who the bid spokesman supports the main point I picked up from Davis Low's interview was pretty much what a lot of us have been saying. The infrastructure at Hibs is in place, no capex is required by new owners and the time is right to focus on football matters and getting the football operation functioning at all levels.

The current owners have made these moves already and most of us on here are happy with the changes so the question is why change owners? Again David Low addresses this. He fairly states that rightly or wrongly the current regime (we all know he means Farmer but more importantly Petrie) are perceived to be the reason for fans current disgruntlement and apathy. Both sides see the potential in Hibs but the new owners would provide us with real tangible change, let's be frank the removal of Petrie, and hopefully with a new focus on the team on the park this would be enough to bring thousands of fans back regularly.

Low and the other members of the consortium were not proposing radical changes to things going on just now, just new faces, fresh ideas and ideally bonding together Hibs fans in the all for one fashion that has bonded our city rivals in the last year or two.

If this bid is now over due to purely Petrie and Farmers lack of financial gains then there could be sticky times ahead for our current owners unless the team really kicks on in the Championship.

[steviehibsleith]

I would hope the owners of Hibs make available to the public (and therefore to Hibs fans) some statement on why the bid was rejected. I tend to agree that £3.5m seems a reasonable bid so we need some justification why it was rejected. My understanding STF does not need the money and wants Hibs to go to “safe hands that can take the club forward”. The fans deserve to know what scuppered this.

Why does 3.5 million seem reasonable ?
If this is for 90 percent of the stadium and East Mains I'd be looking for 6 million .

[Keith_M]

:agree:

His statement smacks of sour grapes and at the same time he's intent on stirring things up.


:agree:


Bad mouthing Petrie has surely killed his bid stone dead.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I would hope the owners of Hibs make available to the public (and therefore to Hibs fans) some statement on why the bid was rejected. I tend to agree that £3.5m seems a reasonable bid so we need some justification why it was rejected. My understanding STF does not need the money and wants Hibs to go to “safe hands that can take the club forward”. The fans deserve to know what scuppered this.

Maybe the owner should say what price he is actually wanting, and break it down per assets, debt and of course what he and RP want personally, to give clarity to the situation? All this ambiguity just muddy the waters IMO

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe the owner should say what price he is actually wanting, and break it down per assets, debt and of course what he and RP want personally, to give clarity to the situation? All this ambiguity just muddy the waters IMO

That would involve the owner engaging with the fans. When has that ever happened before?

[FranckSuzy]

Maybe the owner should say what price he is actually wanting, and break it down per assets, debt and of course what he and RP want personally, to give clarity to the situation? All this ambiguity just muddy the waters IMO

:agree:

[Baldy Foghorn]

That would involve the owner engaging with the fans. When has that ever happened before?

This is true:wink:.....

Both David Low and Hibs Forever saying they have bid for Club, but on both occasions the goalposts were moved.....Jeez.....

[ehf]

I would hope the owners of Hibs make available to the public (and therefore to Hibs fans) some statement on why the bid was rejected. I tend to agree that £3.5m seems a reasonable bid so we need some justification why it was rejected. My understanding STF does not need the money and wants Hibs to go to “safe hands that can take the club forward”. The fans deserve to know what scuppered this.

Petrie's greed, by the sound of it.

[ancient hibee]

This is true:wink:.....

Both David Low and Hibs Forever saying they have bid for Club, but on both occasions the goalposts were moved.....Jeez.....

Considering both bids were totally different the goal posts would have been constantly moving!

David Low in his statement spoke about a debt free environment-considering debt last July was around £12million-it would be interesting to know where he thought that was going.

[carnoustiehibee]

So what would he be getting for his 3.5m? Easter road and east mains?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

petrie g.t.f.!

Now!.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Considering both bids were totally different the goal posts would have been constantly moving!

David Low in his statement spoke about a debt free environment-considering debt last July was around £12million-it would be interesting to know where he thought that was going.

Which is why I said in an earlier post Hibs should clarify their position. All this speculation does nothing

[oregonhibby]

From The Carlisle News and Star

"It has led to speculation that Frank Lynch is involved in the takeover attempt less than a month after he dramatically withdrew his financial support for the Carlisle non-league club."

He sold it back to its former owner saying he found it difficult to run the Club from the other side of the Atlantic.

[ancient hibee]

So what would he be getting for his 3.5m? Easter road and east mains?

He would be getting 98% of the shares of HFC Holdings Ltd.who own Hibs.

[madhibby]

So what would he be getting for his 3.5m? Easter road and east mains?

They would have purchased all the shareholdings of Hibernian Holdings who 100% own Hibernian FC. They would therefore have aquired all the assests including the stadium and east mains as well as all the liababilties of Hibs (including mortgage debt etc).

[BSEJVT]

Petrie's greed, by the sound of it.

Have a word, its all very well to decry the guy for his failures as our Chief Exec / Chairman but that's utter bollocks

He owns 10% he cant influence a damn thing re sale of shares.

If STF wanted to sell even 51% of his shares to anybody for a penny, Petrie couldn't stop him and that buyer could do whatever the hell he wanted (legally) with the business.

Every time it came to a vote he would win

Exactly how much power do you think a 10% shareholder has in any company acting in isolation, not a damn thing

His minority shareholding is worth only what someone will pay for it.

His best hope is that someone buys all STF's shareholding and then has to make same offer to other shareholders.

Make no mistake STF is calling the shots here and Petrie is acting in concert and as his mouthpiece.

I don't like RP personally but I am beginning to feel a wee bit sorry for him as he gets blamed for everything and anything even if its out of his control.

Another thing to ponder on is that this might just have been a polite way of saying get stuffed I wouldn't let you near Hibs with a bargepole.

[bighairyfaeleith]

quite glad this is not going ahead, didn't sound kosha to me.

[ehf]

Have a word, its all very well to decry the guy for his failures as our Chief Exec / Chairman but that's utter bollocks

He owns 10% he cant influence a damn thing re sale of shares.

If STF wanted to sell even 51% of his shares to anybody for a penny, Petrie couldn't stop him and that buyer could do whatever the hell he wanted (legally) with the business.

Every time it came to a vote he would win

Exactly how much power do you think a 10% shareholder has in any company acting in isolation, not a damn thing

His minority shareholding is worth only what someone will pay for it.

His best hope is that someone buys all STF's shareholding and then has to make same offer to other shareholders.

Make no mistake STF is calling the shots here and Petrie is acting in concert and as his mouthpiece.

I don't like RP personally but I am beginning to feel a wee bit sorry for him as he gets blamed for everything and anything even if its out of his control.

Think you will find it is actually the other way round.

[SanFranHibs]

Have a word, its all very well to decry the guy for his failures as our Chief Exec / Chairman but that's utter bollocks

He owns 10% he cant influence a damn thing re sale of shares.

If STF wanted to sell even 51% of his shares to anybody for a penny, Petrie couldn't stop him and that buyer could do whatever the hell he wanted (legally) with the business.

Every time it came to a vote he would win

Exactly how much power do you think a 10% shareholder has in any company acting in isolation, not a damn thing

His minority shareholding is worth only what someone will pay for it.

His best hope is that someone buys all STF's shareholding and then has to make same offer to other shareholders.

Make no mistake STF is calling the shots here and Petrie is acting in concert and as his mouthpiece.

I don't like RP personally but I am beginning to feel a wee bit sorry for him as he gets blamed for everything and anything even if its out of his control.

Another thing to ponder on is that this might just have been a polite way of saying get stuffed I wouldn't let you near Hibs with a bargepole.

Nonsense. Did Petrie write this for you??

:wink:

[marinello59]

The comment from Low seems to suggest that it's mostly Petrie that's the problem.

It looks more like a clumsy attempt to make Petrie the centre of all this and cause further unrest amongst the Hibs fans to suit their agenda. The good of the club?

[HFC 0-7]

So many people bad mouthing low and his comments. Pretty much all of the fans want Petrie out and along comes someone who has background in this sort of thing and we immediately don't like him. I think his comments seem quite fair. As others have said, why don't they come out and say what they want for the club. The club has said it wants to be transparent, so let's see it. Official comms from them on whether they will or will not sell and how much for. Either try and move it along or put it to bed.

[carnoustiehibee]

They would have purchased all the shareholdings of Hibernian Holdings who 100% own Hibernian FC. They would therefore have aquired all the assests including the stadium and east mains as well as all the liababilties of Hibs (including mortgage debt etc).

Thanks for that

David lows statement put me off, seems abit arsey

[Pretty Boy]

I find it difficult to understand how a group can say they won't proceed without the support of the fans but then make a bid anyway having told us nothing.

That goes for both groups. The fans, customers if you will, no absolutely nothing about them. How are they going to fund spending on the team? How are they going to increase turnover? How many of the current staff will be removed? Is Denpster safe? Stubbs? Craig?

I'm not happy with they way things are at the moment but I can't throw support behind bid I know hee haw about. Obviously there are confidentiality agreements in place re the negotiations but surely that doesn't stop each party outlining their 'vision' for the future.

Sorry but for me the next owner of Hibs has to be the right one, it's time for change but I'm not going to throw support behind a secretive bid for the sake of it.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

It looks more like a clumsy attempt to make Petrie the centre of all this and cause further unrest amongst the Hibs fans to suit their agenda. The good of the club?

But he is.....:rolleyes:

Simply cannot believe some posters on here are on Petrie's side, who could ever forget that arrogant smirking after the Hamilton game? almost like he planned it that way...

I want him OUT! and so do many others, only a matter of time before it happens IMO

[BSEJVT]

Think you will find it is actually the other way round.

You are going to have to explain it to me simply how someone with a 10% shareholding can tell someone with a 90% shareholding what to do?

Your posts encapsulate a real danger in all this

People are so blinded by their hatred of RP and to a lesser extent STF that they will jump at anything without having a clue over what the real situation is and why one bid is better than another or the unlikely event that the status quo should continue.

IMO the Low bid is exactly that, an attempt to rally the ill informed into a cause and for it to acquire momentum and become so petty, degrading, insulting and divisive for STF & RP to say stuff it lets just sell up and leave them to it.

[carnoustiehibee]

Is 3.5m a fair valuation of hibs then?

Seems abit cheap,but I'm not an accountant.

What's lows plans to take us forward. Just coming out and saying my bid was rejected cause petrie n farmer are tight fisted *******s isn't gona work.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

You are going to have to explain it to me simply how someone with a 10% shareholding can tell someone with a 90% shareholding what to do?

Your posts encapsulate a real danger in all this

People are so blinded by their hatred of RP and to a lesser extent STF that they will jump at anything without having a clue over what the real situation is and why one bid is better than another or the unlikely event that the status quo should continue.

IMO the Low bid is exactly that, an attempt to rally the ill informed into a cause and for it to acquire momentum and become so petty, degrading, insulting and divisive for STF & RP to say stuff it lets just sell up and leave them to it.

So what you are saying is let's boot out every single offer for the club that comes in then?

Deary me....

As far as I'm concerned Low's offer looked good but he simply cannot put all his cards on the table until at least the bid has a chance of success.

[HFC 0-7]

It looks more like a clumsy attempt to make Petrie the centre of all this and cause further unrest amongst the Hibs fans to suit their agenda. The good of the club?

Or it could be Petrie? One minute the fans want the guy put, he is no good for hibs. The next minute he can do no wrong. If hibs don't want unrest why doesn't Petrie come out and tell everyone, publicly, not for sale don't even bother coming back,or, say we will entertain the idea if we get x million!

Petrie is is leaving the door open IMO for more offers like this, where the 2 groups could be miles apart. Low is right in what he is saying, if Petrie wants more money for his shareholding then it does dilute the pot left over for investing in the club.

[carnoustiehibee]

I find it difficult to understand how a group can say they won't proceed without the support of the fans but then make a bid anyway having told us nothing.

That goes for both groups. The fans, customers if you will, no absolutely nothing about them. How are they going to fund spending on the team? How are they going to increase turnover? How many of the current staff will be removed? Is Denpster safe? Stubbs? Craig?

I'm not happy with they way things are at the moment but I can't throw support behind bid I know hee haw about. Obviously there are confidentiality agreements in place re the negotiations but surely that doesn't stop each party outlining their 'vision' for the future.

Sorry but for me the next owner of Hibs has to be the right one, it's time for change but I'm not going to throw support behind a secretive bid for the sake of it.

Exactemundo

[HFC 0-7]

I find it difficult to understand how a group can say they won't proceed without the support of the fans but then make a bid anyway having told us nothing.

That goes for both groups. The fans, customers if you will, no absolutely nothing about them. How are they going to fund spending on the team? How are they going to increase turnover? How many of the current staff will be removed? Is Denpster safe? Stubbs? Craig?

I'm not happy with they way things are at the moment but I can't throw support behind bid I know hee haw about. Obviously there are confidentiality agreements in place re the negotiations but surely that doesn't stop each party outlining their 'vision' for the future.

Sorry but for me the next owner of Hibs has to be the right one, it's time for change but I'm not going to throw support behind a secretive bid for the sake of it.


If they get get a bid accepted it doesn't mean they will buy the club. What low said previously is that they will get a bid accepted and the be transparent in who the investors are and they won't proceed without the backing of the fans. I read it as at that point they will engage with the fans and try to agree on how it would work. Some people are trying their hardest to find the negatives in anything to do with this guy. Oh how we would have longed for investment and the ability to move forward, this could be the chance and we are not willing to listen to him, making ill informed judgements about his credentials and motives.

[BSEJVT]

But he is.....:rolleyes:

Simply cannot believe some posters on here are on Petrie's side, who could ever forget that arrogant smirking after the Hamilton game? almost like he planned it that way...

I want him OUT! and so do many others, only a matter of time before it happens IMO

I don't see many folk on Petrie's side, I have made it clear that I don't like him. I would be more than happy to see him out of ER for his miss-handling of the club over the past 7 years.

But the truth is the truth and no matter how you spin it or how much you don't want to believe it, it is.

There's a saying somewhere that I don't fully recall about truth being the first casualty.

Petrie shareholding is no more significant in the sale of Hibs than my 50 shares.

Far too many people IMO are polluting the debate by getting their jollies at the thought of Petrie on a handcart on his way to the ritual witch burning and forgetting that whilst that might be a happy outcome ( figuratively speaking!) of the sale of the club, its not or at least shouldn't be the main event.

Heaven help us if it because then the lunatics will be running the asylum.

[Ozyhibby]

I find it difficult to understand how a group can say they won't proceed without the support of the fans but then make a bid anyway having told us nothing.

That goes for both groups. The fans, customers if you will, no absolutely nothing about them. How are they going to fund spending on the team? How are they going to increase turnover? How many of the current staff will be removed? Is Denpster safe? Stubbs? Craig?

I'm not happy with they way things are at the moment but I can't throw support behind bid I know hee haw about. Obviously there are confidentiality agreements in place re the negotiations but surely that doesn't stop each party outlining their 'vision' for the future.

Sorry but for me the next owner of Hibs has to be the right one, it's time for change but I'm not going to throw support behind a secretive bid for the sake of it.

First of all they have to find out if the owner is willing to sell at a price they can afford. If he is, then you go to the fans with your plans for the club and try win their support. Only if you succeed in getting the fans behind you do you then proceed with the purchase of the club.
Seems simple to me.
I can't see how you would do it in any other order.

[BSEJVT]

So what you are saying is let's boot out every single offer for the club that comes in then?

Deary me....

As far as I'm concerned Low's offer looked good but he simply cannot put all his cards on the table until at least the bid has a chance of success.

How did you get that from what I said?

You are just being silly!

I asked you to clarify how someone with 10% told someone with 90% what to do

I don't like the Low bid, it looks like opportunism on a grand scale mixed in with an agenda I don't want for Hibs

I have said I want to hear more about the Forever Hibernian bid

I will be delighted if we can get a new owner capable of taking the club forward but also with a bigger eye on protecting our future and heritage

Again you are going to have to explain simply to me how you took that inference from anything I have posted on this topic

[schinkenotto]

What names fill you with no confidence?

As I said previously "none" of those mentioned to date,and the remarks in Mr Low's latest statement on the refusal of his "bid" more than confirm my view.

[TowerHibs]

How did you get that from what I said?

You are just being silly!

I asked you to clarify how someone with 10% told someone with 90% what to do

I don't like the Low bid, it looks like opportunism on a grand scale mixed in with an agenda I don't want for Hibs

I have said I want to hear more about the Forever Hibernian bid

I will be delighted if we can get a new owner capable of taking the club forward but also with a bigger eye on protecting our future and heritage

Again you are going to have to explain simply to me how you took that inference from anything I have posted on this topic

Can i ask....what makes you not like Low's bid? What is the mixed agenda???

Sreious question

[MyJo]

So they are unwilling to reveal who is part of this consortium and what sort of investment they are planning for the club until an offer is accepted but they are quite happy to publicly reveal the details of discussions with Petrie/Farmer in the hope of stirring up ill-feeling in the fanbase to help them with their takeover.

what a fud.

[Ozyhibby]

So they are unwilling to reveal who is part of this consortium and what sort of investment they are planning for the club until an offer is accepted but they are quite happy to publicly reveal the details of discussions with Petrie/Farmer in the hope of stirring up ill-feeling in the fanbase to help them with their takeover.

what a fud.

It's a takeover. These things sometimes get rough.

[s.a.m]

First of all they have to find out if the owner is willing to sell at a price they can afford. If he is, then you go to the fans with your plans for the club and try win their support. Only if you succeed in getting the fans behind you do you then proceed with the purchase of the club.
Seems simple to me.
I can't see how you would do it in any other order.

Not sure that's how David Low sees it. This is what he said on the subject in yesterday's Evening News :

David Low, the financial advisor heading a consortium which has launched a £3.5 million bid for Hibs, has insisted he won’t reveal the identities of those backing the deal unless their offer is accepted.

But Low promised that if the move to buy owner Sir Tom Farmer’s shares in the club’s parent company HFC Holdings is successful, the details of everyone involved will be revealed, adding: “There will be full transparency.”

[blackpoolhibs]

So they are unwilling to reveal who is part of this consortium and what sort of investment they are planning for the club until an offer is accepted but they are quite happy to publicly reveal the details of discussions with Petrie/Farmer in the hope of stirring up ill-feeling in the fanbase to help them with their takeover.

what a fud.

Really? I'd have thought going to STF with what they propose would be the first thing to do, then if it goes well we will all get to know what the plans are.

If as its been refused, its time for him to go back to the others and see if another approach, a different approach will work?

Buying a football club is not as straight forward as buying a car, there will be lots of things we will never be privy to, and to call someone a fud because the fans are not told the ins and outs of their bid is just silly.

[carnoustiehibee]

First of all they have to find out if the owner is willing to sell at a price they can afford. If he is, then you go to the fans with your plans for the club and try win their support. Only if you succeed in getting the fans behind you do you then proceed with the purchase of the club.
Seems simple to me.
I can't see how you would do it in any other order.

What go through all the hassle of agreeing a price and then try n win over the fans?

Surely they would show the fans what plans are in place,get there backing for a takeover then put pressure on farmer n petrie to sell

[Elephant Stone]

Really? I'd have thought going to STF with what they propose would be the first thing to do, then if it goes well we will all get to know what the plans are.

If as its been refused, its time for him to go back to the others and see if another approach, a different approach will work?

Buying a football club is not as straight forward as buying a car, there will be lots of things we will never be privy to, and to call someone a fud because the fans are not told the ins and outs of their bid is just silly.

He said he wouldn't proceed without the support of the fans and has just made a bid after telling us absolutely **** all. Dick head behavior.

[blackpoolhibs]

He said he wouldn't proceed without the support of the fans and has just made a bid after telling us absolutely **** all. Dick head behavior.

I listened to the podcast, and i'm sure he said they would make a bid for the club and if it was accepted they would not move forward with the purchase without the backing of the fans.

Whats wrong with that?

[southsider]

Why don't Low's Group and Forever Hibernian with fan invovement join forces ? We would then be unstopable. Onwards and upwards and......Petrie no more.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

How did you get that from what I said?

You are just being silly!

I asked you to clarify how someone with 10% told someone with 90% what to do

I don't like the Low bid, it looks like opportunism on a grand scale mixed in with an agenda I don't want for Hibs

I have said I want to hear more about the Forever Hibernian bid

I will be delighted if we can get a new owner capable of taking the club forward but also with a bigger eye on protecting our future and heritage

Again you are going to have to explain simply to me how you took that inference from anything I have posted on this topic

The way you come across as a fan who would rather suffer mediocrity again and not vote for change.

In my opinion the Paul Kane consortium looks like a bit of a joke to me, I really don't think he has the money and would hate to think we would accept his bid "just because he's a Hibby"

I would have liked to have seen Low's full intentions laid on the table but for some reason you don't want us to have anything to do with him and yet on the other hand there has been no transparency from Kane or his backers...has there?

PS I'm not silly either, I only want the best for the club so less of the insults please, thanks.

[BSEJVT]

Can i ask....what makes you not like Low's bid? What is the mixed agenda???

Sreious question

The alarm bells started ringing at suitably green, which IMO was a misplaced attempt to ingratiate himself to us.

Little Celtic is pretty close to the top of the list of things I wouldn't like us to become.

Quite how that "green ness jibs with his involvement with the The Rangers, escapes me, but it does show a useful insight into the measure of the man and and his motivations.

The guy is a predator, interested only in turning a quick buck.

It could just as easily be any other club which fits his agenda, he has no more interest in us for the future than flying in the air

He is long on rhetoric and short on facts, probably because there are none.

My main concern is where and how would they leave us if we didn't fulfil their grand plan, you don't have to look far beyond Edinburgh, let alone Scotland to see what happens to clubs where their owners lose enthusiasm / funding gets tight.

I want new owners but I want their first and last consideration to be for the long term good of the club, not for it to be an afterthought.

I don't have huge expectations for any new owner but I desperately want my great grandchildren and theirs to be able to watch us as they grow up.

We have had some pretty rough years but Hibs have still given me some of my happiest days on the planet, some of which I was blessed to share with my children.

When I am on my deathbed, these are the moments that will sustain me, not whether we were 2nd, 3rd or 11th in the league.

One of those infrequent glorious moments wipes out a lot of the mediocrity

[Elephant Stone]

I listened to the podcast, and i'm sure he said they would make a bid for the club and if it was accepted they would not move forward with the purchase without the backing of the fans.

Whats wrong with that?

They only want to be transparent once they're effectively in? Does that not worry you?

[blackpoolhibs]

The way you come across as a fan who would rather suffer mediocrity again and not vote for change.

In my opinion the Paul Kane consortium looks like a bit of a joke to me, I really don't think he has the money and would hate to think we would accept his bid "just because he's a Hibby"

I would have liked to have seen Low's full intentions laid on the table but for some reason you don't want us to have anything to do with him and yet on the other hand there has been no transparency from Kane or his backers...has there?

PS I'm not silly either, I only want the best for the club so less of the insults please, thanks.

Its posts like this that make me howl with laughter. Who is in the consortium with Kane, and what kind of money do they have?

None of them have told us anything yet, how anyone can make their minds up either way yet is strange in my opinion.

[Smartie]

How did you get that from what I said?

You are just being silly!

I asked you to clarify how someone with 10% told someone with 90% what to do

I don't like the Low bid, it looks like opportunism on a grand scale mixed in with an agenda I don't want for Hibs

I have said I want to hear more about the Forever Hibernian bid

I will be delighted if we can get a new owner capable of taking the club forward but also with a bigger eye on protecting our future and heritage

Again you are going to have to explain simply to me how you took that inference from anything I have posted on this topic

I have to say that without having all of the details that is what it smacks of to me.

We've been relegated and our finances are in all probability worsening. This will attract opportunists as they may see us as being "weakened" and ripe for being picked up cheaply.

When we discussed in depth Petrie and his pros and cons earlier this summer, I pointed out that Petrie's greatest strength is in negotiating when he has something that you want. If Farmer has instructed Petrie to get the best possible price for their shares then I would imagine nobody better at doing just that.

This has only started but could go on and on and on imo.

To be honest I'm not that uncomfortable about the status quo. Whilst it was years too late, Petrie finally stumbling across some self-awareness, realising his failings and appointing Dempster may well prove to be the best thing he ever does for us. It's early days but I have total faith in the football side of our club right now.

We really need to be careful what we wish for off the pitch. "Anyone but Petrie" just won't do.

[blackpoolhibs]

They only want to be transparent once they're effectively in? Does that not worry you?

Why should it, STF has said he wont sell to anyone who is untrustworthy, and if nothing happens we are left with him, the man we all trust 100% now.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Its posts like this that make me howl with laughter. Who is in the consortium with Kane, and what kind of money do they have?

None of them have told us anything yet, how anyone can make their minds up either way yet is strange in my opinion.

There are several wealthy Edinburgh based businessmen involved, thought you would have known about that.

I don't know who they are either but at least Low let us know who was in his group of investors.

[blackpoolhibs]

There are several wealthy Edinburgh based businessmen involved, thought you would have known about that.

I don't know who they are either but at least Low let us know who was in his group of investors.

You said you don't think they have the money, but now say there are several wealthy businessmen involved. Do these people not have enough money, i have no idea but you apparently know their wealth.

[BSEJVT]

The way you come across as a fan who would rather suffer mediocrity again and not vote for change.

In my opinion the Paul Kane consortium looks like a bit of a joke to me, I really don't think he has the money and would hate to think we would accept his bid "just because he's a Hibby"

I would have liked to have seen Low's full intentions laid on the table but for some reason you don't want us to have anything to do with him and yet on the other hand there has been no transparency from Kane or his backers...has there?

PS I'm not silly either, I only want the best for the club so less of the insults please, thanks.

I am not silly either and did not say you were, I said your comments were silly, to deliberately avoid insulting you!

So why did you misrepresent my comments into something they bore no relation to?

But IMO the long term future of the club is the over riding concern.

Whether we like or it or not, Hibs as has most of Scottish Football operated in a sea of mediocrity since the effect of TV money changed the game forever.

I don't see there being a complete game changing bid anywhere that will change that.

I firmly believe the club can and should have been better managed / focussed, on on the field success.

If you asked me to define what that on the field success would /should look like I would begin to struggle but I don't think it unreasonable that we should finish in the top 6 every year and 2 out of 3 should make a serious challenge at 2nd with at least 1 cup run to at least the semis annually.

The lead that Celtic have and as far as I can see always will have, unless the continued dis-affection of their fans snowballs makes anything else extremely problematical in my view, as unfortunately in the majority of instances money talks.

I cant see even the most beneficial owner we could have seriously challenging that wealth so for me preservation is almost as important as success on which I will take the same chance as any of the other "big clubs" in the Scottish set up.

People see what they want to see I have made it as abundantly clear as I can that I am in favour of change but you don't see that because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe either of me or the situation.

I am still waiting for you to tell me how someone with a 10% shareholding can tell someone with a 90% shareholding what to do?

[Spike Mandela]

My main concern is where and how would they leave us if we didn't fulfil their grand plan, you don't have to look far beyond Edinburgh, let alone Scotland to see what happens to clubs where their owners lose enthusiasm / funding gets tight.

I want new owners but I want their first and last consideration to be for the long term good of the club, not for it to be an afterthought.

I don't have huge expectations for any new owner but I desperately want my great grandchildren and theirs to be able to watch us as they grow up.


David Low and 'the bunnet' laid great foundations for Celtic without the spend spend spend attitude of David Murray. It wasn't popular with Celtic fans at the time but it is probably fair to say Celtic reaped the benefits whilst Rangers got liquidated.

Many questions have to be answered by any new prospective owners but i don't think David Low has suggested anything that would endanger the future of our club any more than the current regime would.

As a fanbase we are in danger of putting so many caveats in front of any potential new owners that nothing will ever change.

[BSEJVT]

I have to say that without having all of the details that is what it smacks of to me.

We've been relegated and our finances are in all probability worsening. This will attract opportunists as they may see us as being "weakened" and ripe for being picked up cheaply.

When we discussed in depth Petrie and his pros and cons earlier this summer, I pointed out that Petrie's greatest strength is in negotiating when he has something that you want. If Farmer has instructed Petrie to get the best possible price for their shares then I would imagine nobody better at doing just that.

This has only started but could go on and on and on imo.

To be honest I'm not that uncomfortable about the status quo. Whilst it was years too late, Petrie finally stumbling across some self-awareness, realising his failings and appointing Dempster may well prove to be the best thing he ever does for us. It's early days but I have total faith in the football side of our club right now.

We really need to be careful what we wish for off the pitch. "Anyone but Petrie" just won't do.

Agree entirely

My biggest concern is that many of the posters on this board think that anyone but Petrie will do.

[BSEJVT]

David Low and 'the bunnet' laid great foundations for Celtic without the spend spend spend attitude of David Murray. It wasn't popular with Celtic fans at the time but it is probably fair to say Celtic reaped the benefits whilst Rangers got liquidated.

Many questions have to be answered by any new prospective owners but i don't think David Low has suggested anything that would endanger the future of our club any more than the current regime would.

As a fanbase we are in danger of putting so many caveats in front of any potential new owners that nothing will ever change.

That is certainly one interpretation of McCann's time at Celtic and I wouldn't disagree that they were in a far better place when he left.

But he left with a huge wedge in his back pocket.

There is no huge wedge anywhere near Hibs and even if there were it would come out of and ultimately hurt the club.

Problem is David Low has not said anything, other than sound bites, look at me and the bad men wont give me the ball.

I don't find that too helpful in our current situation!

I only have 3 criteria for a new owner and don't think even they will all be met.

I want them invested emotionally, historically and financially in the club.

I don't want them to sell us to a "scrap merchant" like an old car that has lost its lustre when the new shinier model comes along.

I want them to safeguard our future as their first consideration.

I want them to improve our performances on the pitch

Doesn't seem too onerous to me

[Spike Mandela]

That is certainly one interpretation of McCann's time at Celtic and I wouldn't disagree that they were in a far better place when he left.

But he left with a huge wedge in his back pocket.

There is no huge wedge anywhere near Hibs and even if there were it would come out of and ultimately hurt the club.

Problem is David Low has not said anything, other than sound bites, look at me and the bad men wont give me the ball.

I don't find that too helpful in our current situation!

I only have 3 criteria for a new owner and don't think even they will all be met.

I want them invested emotionally, historically and financially in the club.

I don't want them to sell us to a "scrap merchant" like an old car that has lost its lustre when the new shinier model comes along.

I want them to safeguard our future as their first consideration.

I want them to improve our performances on the pitch

Doesn't seem too onerous to me

In effect you are stating the status quo. All we have to do is sit tight and wait the inevitable cyclical turn of football where we get a decent team every 10-15 years or so and all will be well.

Many Hibs fans don't have that patience any more.

[silverhibee]

I listened to the podcast, and i'm sure he said they would make a bid for the club and if it was accepted they would not move forward with the purchase without the backing of the fans.

Whats wrong with that?


Come on BH, just look at the state of The Rangers Leeds and Portsmouth, surely the alarm bells are ringing for you...

[BSEJVT]

In effect you are stating the status quo. All we have to do is sit tight and wait the inevitable cyclical turn of football where we get a decent team every 10-15 years or so and all will be well.

Many Hibs fans don't have that patience any more.

I don't see it that way.

We can and must do much better, whether that's with old or new owners doesn't in itself concern me, but I do think that the baggage the current owners now carry makes change a better option.

I don't have sufficient patience either but I cant advocate anything that leaves the club less secure (from an ownership perspective) than it does now.

I fully accept that that security carries a cost of under investment, but am hopeful that a fan ownership model at least in part can address that issue somehow.

For me its risk v reward, there's not sufficient reward out there for me to risk our future as IMO its not ours to risk, all we are are this generations supporters.

I am hopeful that in due course any interested parties will expand on their plans for the club and that we can have a better informed and more balanced debate on their relative merits than is currently possible.

[marinello59]

But he is.....:rolleyes:

Simply cannot believe some posters on here are on Petrie's side, who could ever forget that arrogant smirking after the Hamilton game? almost like he planned it that way...

I want him OUT! and so do many others, only a matter of time before it happens IMO

I hope that isn't aimed at me because if it is I would like to know how you came to that conclusion. I have said time and time again that he should be gone but that doesn't mean that we should blindly back every bid for the club just because it will remove him, that would be madness.

[Dashing Bob S]

Wanting rid of Petrie and/or Farmer and jumping in to slavishly support anybody who comes along aren't necessarily the same thing.

[GreenCastle]

Come on BH, just look at the state of The Rangers Leeds and Portsmouth, surely the alarm bells are ringing for you...

For every Rangers, Leeds and Portsmouth - there are many clubs that have got close to their potential and done well.

We as a capital city club are no where near reaching our potential and have been turning fans off from the club.

If new ownership happened - and the club had some ambition I am sure the fans would come back in numbers.

[blackpoolhibs]

Come on BH, just look at the state of The Rangers Leeds and Portsmouth, surely the alarm bells are ringing for you...

You forgot about the gorgie mutants, apparently the only way to run a football club these days is STF's way or those clubs mentioned, everyone else are just folk on the make.

Even though nobody has heard a word about how they are going to fund any takeover or who indeed everyone actually involved.

Its right folk want transparency, but its also right that we the fans need to know the truth. And if this means STF and Petrie keep the club, then fine.

They better tell us just why though, because folk will want to know why they refused any of these offers, and why they want to keep the club.

[PHEONIXHIBS]

The clubs official statement if anyone has missed it. http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/4739 apologies if already posted

[marinello59]

The clubs official statement if anyone has missed it. http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/4739 apologies if already posted

''Potential benefit to the club was put ahead of any personal consideration''

So the club are saying that claims that Rod Petrie's greed caused this bid to be dismissed are untrue.

[blackpoolhibs]

''Potential benefit to the club was put ahead of any personal consideration''

So the club are saying that claims that Rod Petrie's greed caused this bid to be dismissed are untrue.

Who issued the statement, was it Petrie? :wink:

[Spike Mandela]

Who issued the statement, was it Petrie? :wink:

Petrie is The Club. :fishin:

[Moulin Yarns]

The clubs official statement if anyone has missed it. http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/4739 apologies if already posted


Could you copy and paste it? some of us are stuck at work and are forced to use Internet Explorer version 8 (really!)

[PHEONIXHIBS]

Could you copy and paste it? some of us are stuck at work and are forced to use Internet Explorer version 8 (really!)

A statement on behalf of the Board of Hibernian Football Club
As it has been for 23 years, the first consideration for any proposal received for the football club is whether it is in the best long-term interests of Hibernian.
Mr Low was given every courtesy to explain the benefits to the football club of his proposals to an independent expert.
Potential benefit to the club was put ahead of any personal consideration.
The advice given to the Club was that the proposals set out in heads of terms dated 10 July received from Mr Low's lawyers, and again set out at a subsequent meeting held between Mr Low and the independent adviser, were not in the best interests of the Club.
That point was made specifically in the letter to Mr Low's lawyers rejecting the offer.
Hopefully now in the run up to the Edinburgh Derby the club and supporters can remain focused on the football contest on the pitch.

[Bishop Hibee]

I've said it before, Farmer and Petrie need to lay out the detailed conditions under which they would sell the club. That would be true transparency.

[GreenCastle]

I've said it before, Farmer and Petrie need to lay out the detailed conditions under which they would sell the club. That would be true transparency.

:agree:

Hardest men to deal with!

[madhibby]

I am not impressed with the club’s statement.

They (Rod Petrie and STF aided by some independent adviser) are of the opinion the bid is not in the best long term interests of Hibs. I think they should have the decency to explain to the fans where it falls down compared with the current ownership arrangements. I thought the new CEO, LD spoke about real engagement with the Hibs support. This statement fails miserably. The same engagement with the fans is required on the Paul Kane plus others plus potential fans bid. I wonder if it might be useful if the two potential bids (assuming there are not others) join forces without necessarily forcing up the price? Remember the more paid the less available to invest in the team.

[GlenrothesHibee]

Great news tbh. We don't need even more upheaval at the moment. We are structured much better now and im really looking forward to the future under the current ownership

[Weststandwanab]

Madhibby I agree 100%

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Great news tbh. We don't need even more upheaval at the moment. We are structured much better now and im really looking forward to the future under the current ownership

:bitchy:

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

You said you don't think they have the money, but now say there are several wealthy businessmen involved. Do these people not have enough money, i have no idea but you apparently know their wealth.

They are wealthy but how much they would put together to buy the club remains to be seen, I simply don't think they could match Low's offer, hope I'm wrong of course.

I know one of them personally and can assure you he won't say a single word to anyone who asks, I find that very strange.

Whatever the outcome I want Petrie out and Farmer to move on as quickly as possible.

[BSEJVT]

I am not impressed with the club’s statement.

They (Rod Petrie and STF aided by some independent adviser) are of the opinion the bid is not in the best long term interests of Hibs. I think they should have the decency to explain to the fans where it falls down compared with the current ownership arrangements. I thought the new CEO, LD spoke about real engagement with the Hibs support. This statement fails miserably. The same engagement with the fans is required on the Paul Kane plus others plus potential fans bid. I wonder if it might be useful if the two potential bids (assuming there are not others) join forces without necessarily forcing up the price? Remember the more paid the less available to invest in the team.

I think they may have some problem doing so as there will almost certainly be confidentiality clauses within any offer from both parties.

Its not in the bidder's interests to tip off their opponents (other potential bidders) in relation to what's in their bid and its not in the sellers interest to give away what made the bidders bid worthy of discussion.

There is however nothing to stop all parties revealing their plans for the running and management of the club and the projected I & E budgets should they wish.

Other than that the actual sale price of the club is of no interest to other than the buyer or seller unless like Man Utd the club takes on the repayment of the debt incurred to buy the club.

The whole thing is incredibly destabilising which I am certain is the bidders intention, and leaves the supporters squabbling over nothing other than the motivations of those involved because there is nothing factual to argue about.

[TowerHibs]

I am not impressed with the club’s statement.

They (Rod Petrie and STF aided by some independent adviser) are of the opinion the bid is not in the best long term interests of Hibs. I think they should have the decency to explain to the fans where it falls down compared with the current ownership arrangements. I thought the new CEO, LD spoke about real engagement with the Hibs support. This statement fails miserably. The same engagement with the fans is required on the Paul Kane plus others plus potential fans bid. I wonder if it might be useful if the two potential bids (assuming there are not others) join forces without necessarily forcing up the price? Remember the more paid the less available to invest in the team.

kind of agree. People dismissing Low's comments and bid want to know the facts - of which ifull agree with.

Yet when RP and STF reject the bid as its not the best for the club - we need to know why. RP best interests of the club have been badly misguided in the last 7-10 years

[silverhibee]

You forgot about the gorgie mutants, apparently the only way to run a football club these days is STF's way or those clubs mentioned, everyone else are just folk on the make.

Even though nobody has heard a word about how they are going to fund any takeover or who indeed everyone actually involved.

Its right folk want transparency, but its also right that we the fans need to know the truth. And if this means STF and Petrie keep the club, then fine.

They better tell us just why though, because folk will want to know why they refused any of these offers, and why they want to keep the club.

And not forgetting the mighty Gretna FC, gone forever from Scottish football.

I think you are right though, it seems some folk are scared of change and the only way forward/back is to stick with Mr Steady Farmer, if he has no intentions of selling the club then why no statement from him, FFS how hard a decision is it for him to make his mind up if the club is up for sale or not, the silence from him just isn't helping things, treating his customers very poorly imo, at this time we need leadership and i keep saying it but it has to come from the top, time for him to make a statement on the future of HFC.

[BSEJVT]

They are wealthy but how much they would put together to buy the club remains to be seen, I simply don't think they could match Low's offer, hope I'm wrong of course.

I know one of them personally and can assure you he won't say a single word to anyone who asks, I find that very strange.

Whatever the outcome I want Petrie out and Farmer to move on as quickly as possible.

To be honest mate you don't have much credibility if you cant answer questions put to you or extract yourself from some of the holes you have dug for yourself.

You know one of them personally, but he wont say a word to anyone who asks, so by inference you don't know any of the others.

However you don't think they could match Low's offer!

Like many of your posts I am struggling to see the train of logic that took you on that journey.

[lobster]

I welcome the boards statement. It basically says P*** off Low in Legalese.
Good. Chancers.

[BSEJVT]

Like many I am not enamoured by our current custodians, but also like may many I am not for change at any price.

There are plenty negative stories /examples around alternative owners / ownership models, but I don't think I have ever seen one lauded as the panacea for all ills.

To help the debate rather than saying what we don't want, what do we do we want as I don't think I have seen that expressed either?

Who else has the model you think we should aspire to? Why?

Genuine question

In my heart I lean towards a fan ownership model, but in truth its a romantic notion as I have no idea what it would entail or how it would work in practice and what are the benefits and pitfalls.

[Ozyhibby]

I have to say that without having all of the details that is what it smacks of to me.

We've been relegated and our finances are in all probability worsening. This will attract opportunists as they may see us as being "weakened" and ripe for being picked up cheaply.

When we discussed in depth Petrie and his pros and cons earlier this summer, I pointed out that Petrie's greatest strength is in negotiating when he has something that you want. If Farmer has instructed Petrie to get the best possible price for their shares then I would imagine nobody better at doing just that.

This has only started but could go on and on and on imo.

To be honest I'm not that uncomfortable about the status quo. Whilst it was years too late, Petrie finally stumbling across some self-awareness, realising his failings and appointing Dempster may well prove to be the best thing he ever does for us. It's early days but I have total faith in the football side of our club right now.

We really need to be careful what we wish for off the pitch. "Anyone but Petrie" just won't do.

We are in the 1st division and you have complete faith in the football side of the club?

[Weir7]

I am not impressed with the club’s statement.

They (Rod Petrie and STF aided by some independent adviser) are of the opinion the bid is not in the best long term interests of Hibs. I think they should have the decency to explain to the fans where it falls down compared with the current ownership arrangements. I thought the new CEO, LD spoke about real engagement with the Hibs support. This statement fails miserably. The same engagement with the fans is required on the Paul Kane plus others plus potential fans bid. I wonder if it might be useful if the two potential bids (assuming there are not others) join forces without necessarily forcing up the price? Remember the more paid the less available to invest in the team.
http://heavidor.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/statement-re-the-hibernian-football-club-limited-hibernian-fc/

So low's version is different from farmer and petries


Hibs and low should issue the letter that they received informing us why bid was rejected

[--------]

I have to say that without having all of the details that is what it smacks of to me.

We've been relegated and our finances are in all probability worsening. This will attract opportunists as they may see us as being "weakened" and ripe for being picked up cheaply.

When we discussed in depth Petrie and his pros and cons earlier this summer, I pointed out that Petrie's greatest strength is in negotiating when he has something that you want. If Farmer has instructed Petrie to get the best possible price for their shares then I would imagine nobody better at doing just that.

This has only started but could go on and on and on imo.

To be honest I'm not that uncomfortable about the status quo. Whilst it was years too late, Petrie finally stumbling across some self-awareness, realising his failings and appointing Dempster may well prove to be the best thing he ever does for us. It's early days but I have total faith in the football side of our club right now.

We really need to be careful what we wish for off the pitch. "Anyone but Petrie" just won't do.

I'm not sure about having 'total faith' in the football side - I'm a lot happier than I was, and I consider we've made a number of positive moves recently for which I'm grateful. But I totally agree - little faith I may have in RP on the football side of things, but 'anyone but Petrie' is, as you rightly imply, a recipe for disaster.

[Smartie]

We are in the 1st division and you have complete faith in the football side of the club?

The football side of the club - currently - bears no resemblance to the one that saw us relegated to the First Division and I honestly don't think the current management team should be associated with it. I've genuinely given them a clean slate and so far it looks like they're taking advantage of it.

The last 6 or 7 years have been an utter shambles and the performance of the football side of the club over that time period is indefensible. But for the first time in a long time we have taken a very different approach and I welcome it with open arms.

Dempster and Stubbs in particular have impressed me in the short time they have been here. They have worked wonders in a very short time. They have earned my support and with the backing of more people I'm sure they will get us back where we belong.

These are the people we need to get behind because they are the ones that can most affect the outcome of our game this weekend. Not Celtic supporter led consortia of faceless people, fans groups about whom we know nowt, Russian sailors, Mikey Forrester etc etc.

I am in no way an apologist for Petrie - if I am his friend I really hate to see what his enemies are like. But we shouldn't just drop our drawers for the first offer that comes our way. We're worth more than that, even in the First Division.

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28774574


8th Para.

" The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian F C. "

That reads to me that the offer from Low was, we will take over the Club and give you nowt for your shares and not repay any loans you have made to the Club.

And, they are upset it was rejected . :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

It takes a faith level of arrogance for Farmer and Petrie to claim to know what's in the best interests of the club given where they have taken us.

[Russ]

kind of agree. People dismissing Low's comments and bid want to know the facts - of which ifull agree with.

Yet when RP and STF reject the bid as its not the best for the club - we need to know why. RP best interests of the club have been badly misguided in the last 7-10 years

The fact they support that filth from the west is as good a reason as any to reject their bid. We're in safe hands with the current owners. It amazes me a lot of the people shouting for a change of ownership on here are the ones who spat the dummy out last season and stopped going WHEN THE CLUB AND THE TEAM NEEDED THEM MOST. Jog on chaps.

[Stonewall]

But he is.....:rolleyes:

Simply cannot believe some posters on here are on Petrie's side, who could ever forget that arrogant smirking after the Hamilton game? almost like he planned it that way...

I want him OUT! and so do many others, only a matter of time before it happens IMO

One man's smirk is another man's grimace: at least it looked like a grimace to me.

I'm not sure anyone's backing Petrie, just some aren't blaming him for everything.

[Thecat23]

As I've said before I'm honestly not convinced Farmer wants to sell. If he does name the price for Hibs. Don't just keep saying "I'll listen to offers" that is a very empty statement in my book.

I'm not saying this offer was a good deal, but Hobs statement doesn't sit right with me! I listened to the guy on the podcast and he spoke well about the club and what his vision was. He isn't going to blow silly money either as he explained.

Farmer and his puppet have had their day with us and I honestly thank him for saving the club. But that doesn't mean we can't now be better off with new owners. Hopefully they come back or someone else is lined up.

For all the folk who say "who wants to invest in Scottish football" there is clearly some and it's not all about filing their pockets. It's about wanting success and that's two very different things.

Had a chat a while ago with a guy who was trying to explain that not all are con men and some want clubs to do well and for them to be recognised as the ones who helped do it!

[marinello59]

As I've said before I'm honestly not convinced Farmer wants to sell. If he does name the price for Hibs. Don't just keep saying "I'll listen to offers" that is a very empty statement in my book.

I'm not saying this offer was a good deal, but Hobs statement doesn't sit right with me! I listened to the guy on the podcast and he spoke well about the club and what his vision was. He isn't going to blow silly money either as he explained.

Farmer and his puppet have had their day with us and I honestly thank him for saving the club. But that doesn't mean we can't now be better off with new owners. Hopefully they come back or someone else is lined up.

For all the folk who say "who wants to invest in Scottish football" there is clearly some and it's not all about filing their pockets. It's about wanting success and that's two very different things.

Had a chat a while ago with a guy who was trying to explain that not all are con men and some want clubs to do well and for them to be recognised as the ones who helped do it!

If he wants to get the best deal he can for the club why on earth would he name his price? He has the position of strength, he would be crazy to relinquish that.

[DavieB]

It takes a faith level of arrogance for Farmer and Petrie to claim to know what's in the best interests of the club given where they have taken us.

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

[--------]

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

Yup - I want them gone, but not just to the first offer than comes along.

What we need is a lot more transparency in the matter and that's not going to happen, I guess.

"Don't you worry your pretty little heads about this, people - Papa Tom and Uncle Rod will sort it all out. You just settle down and buy your season tickets."

[Thecat23]

If he wants to get the best deal he can for the club why on earth would he name his price? He has the position of strength, he would be crazy to relinquish that.

Well he clearly has a price that he thinks it's worth add £2m more then if it gets knocked down he's still happy. He'll never sell so it's a pointless thread to be honest.

[Spike Mandela]

Like many I am not enamoured by our current custodians, but also like may many I am not for change at any price.

There are plenty negative stories /examples around alternative owners / ownership models, but I don't think I have ever seen one lauded as the panacea for all ills.

To help the debate rather than saying what we don't want, what do we do we want as I don't think I have seen that expressed either?

Who else has the model you think we should aspire to? Why?

Genuine question

In my heart I lean towards a fan ownership model, but in truth its a romantic notion as I have no idea what it would entail or how it would work in practice and what are the benefits and pitfalls.

We don't need change at any price agreed. The current ownership model isn't working on the football side though and needs to change, indeed the last 3-4 years has been the consistently worst football I have witnessed in 37 years of attending. Leigh Griffiths being the only bright spot in that time for me. Change has happened of course but the first team still looks weak to me.

I am yet to be convinced that genuine fan ownership would work in a Scottish context. Hearts have been ultimately forced down that road but many pitfalls lie ahead for them imo. It may work in Germany and Spain but could it work on the level of our fan base, perhaps, perhaps not.

We all have respect for Sir Tom and I certainly feel the club is safe in his hands for future generations. If purely and simply the ONLY thing you want of your football club is guaranteed survival then he and Petrie offer is as a safe a pair of hands as you can get. Whether that is in the top league or not, for a few years at least, remains to be seen. I fear under the current ownership we may be in for our longest stint in the lower leagues in the modern era of football.

It has also been stultifyingly dull. Hibs appear to have become a reflection of Sir Tom and Petries cautious personalities. Perhaps Dempster will turn this around. The David Low consortium might or might not be the best vehicle for taking Hibs forward but from what I listened to they weren't promising outrageous acheivements or mega spending but listening to David Low's interview i heard more passion for football, Scottish football and sport in general than I have heard from Petrie o STF ever.

So in essence I want change, I want passion, I want excitement, I want my clubs future secure and I want it to be challenging in all cups , challenging for European spots and I want ER to become a feared place to visit for opposition teams. I don't think STF/Petrie will deliver all of that.

Nothing lasts forever and at some point we will have to pin our hopes on someone other than Sir Tom, perhaps not change at any price but change can also be as good as a rest and the time just seems right.

[Ozyhibby]

The football side of the club - currently - bears no resemblance to the one that saw us relegated to the First Division and I honestly don't think the current management team should be associated with it. I've genuinely given them a clean slate and so far it looks like they're taking advantage of it.

The last 6 or 7 years have been an utter shambles and the performance of the football side of the club over that time period is indefensible. But for the first time in a long time we have taken a very different approach and I welcome it with open arms.

Dempster and Stubbs in particular have impressed me in the short time they have been here. They have worked wonders in a very short time. They have earned my support and with the backing of more people I'm sure they will get us back where we belong.

These are the people we need to get behind because they are the ones that can most affect the outcome of our game this weekend. Not Celtic supporter led consortia of faceless people, fans groups about whom we know nowt, Russian sailors, Mikey Forrester etc etc.

I am in no way an apologist for Petrie - if I am his friend I really hate to see what his enemies are like. But we shouldn't just drop our drawers for the first offer that comes our way. We're worth more than that, even in the First Division.

I'm afraid we are going need a lot more than good interviews and some good performances in pre season to convince me. Only consistent results over a sustained period of time will convince me we have turned the corner.

[Smartie]

We don't need change at any price agreed. The current ownership model isn't working on the football side though and needs to change, indeed the last 3-4 years has been the consistently worst football I have witnessed in 37 years of attending. Leigh Griffiths being the only bright spot in that time for me. Change has happened of course but the first team still looks weak to me.

I am yet to be convinced that genuine fan ownership would work in a Scottish context. Hearts have been ultimately forced down that road but many pitfalls lie ahead for them imo. It may work in Germany and Spain but could it work on the level of our fan base, perhaps, perhaps not.

We all have respect for Sir Tom and I certainly feel the club is safe in his hands for future generations. If purely and simply the ONLY thing you want of your football club is guaranteed survival then he and Petrie offer is as a safe a pair of hands as you can get. Whether that is in the top league or not, for a few years at least, remains to be seen. I fear under the current ownership we may be in for our longest stint in the lower leagues in the modern era of football.

It has also been stultifyingly dull. Hibs appear to have become a reflection of Sir Tom and Petries cautious personalities. Perhaps Dempster will turn this around. The David Low consortium might or might not be the best vehicle for taking Hibs forward but from what I listened to they weren't promising outrageous acheivements or mega spending but listening to David Low's interview i heard more passion for football, Scottish football and sport in general than I have heard from Petrie o STF ever.

So in essence I want change, I want passion, I want excitement, I want my clubs future secure and I want it to be challenging in all cups , challenging for European spots and I want ER to become a feared place to visit for opposition teams. I don't think STF/Petrie will deliver all of that.

Nothing lasts forever and at some point we will have to pin our hopes on someone other than Sir Tom, perhaps not change at any price but change can also be as good as a rest and the time just seems right.

:top marks

Absolutely bang on the money.

[Kaiser1962]

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

How have they done that exactly?

[Smartie]

I'm afraid we are going need a lot more than good interviews and some good performances in pre season to convince me. Only consistent results over a sustained period of time will convince me we have turned the corner.

It's not something I'd really want to do to another Hibby but I will.

Let me take you back to the final whistle at the Hamilton home game. Not that long ago. What more could have been done between then and now?

I've not said we're the finished article, just that we have come far enough that those (currently) in charge of the football side of our club have earned my full faith. I have no problem if you disagree and understand that there was a very long way back for the club in many people's eyes.

We were an utter shambles and in a very dark place. An utterly, utterly horrible place at that time and we've come a long way in a short time. More than 9000 Hibs fans went to our first league game and I expect our average attendance to be higher over the coming season. We've sold out our allocation for the derby this Sunday. Could you really have seen that happening at the final whistle at the Hamilton game? Some people out there agree with me, I'd love it more got on board but I fully understand if you're not there yet.

[lEXO]

Low made his bid public. He spoke about his bid. However when it is rejected he has a pop at Petrie but explains nothing. A cheap dig and away he goes. Looks more like a tantrum than a statement. He can get tae....................

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28774574


8th Para.

" The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian F C. "

That reads to me that the offer from Low was, we will take over the Club and give you nowt for your shares and not repay any loans you have made to the Club.

And, they are upset it was rejected . :confused:

That's my take on it, GG.

It also begs the question. Where was the £3.5m going, if it wasn't to the shareholders?

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

In what way?

[Ozyhibby]

It's not something I'd really want to do to another Hibby but I will.

Let me take you back to the final whistle at the Hamilton home game. Not that long ago. What more could have been done between then and now?

I've not said we're the finished article, just that we have come far enough that those (currently) in charge of the football side of our club have earned my full faith. I have no problem if you disagree and understand that there was a very long way back for the club in many people's eyes.

We were an utter shambles and in a very dark place. An utterly, utterly horrible place at that time and we've come a long way in a short time. More than 9000 Hibs fans went to our first league game and I expect our average attendance to be higher over the coming season. We've sold out our allocation for the derby this Sunday. Could you really have seen that happening at the final whistle at the Hamilton game? Some people out there agree with me, I'd love it more got on board but I fully understand if you're not there yet.

We may have come a long way or we may not. We won't know that until we see results on the park improve. Just because some fans think everything is now sorted doesn't mean it is or isn't.
All that has happened since the Hamilton game is a lot of faces in the coaching team have changed, a lot of players have left and a lot less have arrived. We don't know how it's going to go. Might be great, might not.

[DavieB]

It takes a faith level of arrogance for Farmer and Petrie to claim to know what's in the best interests of the club given where they have taken us.


In what way?

Did Hibs benefit from the sale of the area behind the East Stand or was it HFC Holdings. Do Hibs take all the hospitality and catering monies on matchdays or does some of that go to HFC Holdings.

[CropleyWasGod]

Taking GG's post a bit further.

The Net Assets of the club in the last accounts were £13.5m.

Low wanted STF to write off the loans made by HFC Holdings. That was £250k then, and may be more now.

So, for a company with a book value of approaching £14m, he was offering nothing.

He talked about £3.5m, but that, it seems, was going nowhere near the shareholders. Where was it going, and what terms?

Hibs statement talks about the bid being rejected for the good of the club. Whether it was good for the club or not, the idea of expecting to get a £14m company for nothing is laughable.

[marinello59]

Did Hibs benefit from the sale of the area behind the East Stand or was it HFC Holdings. Do Hibs take all the hospitality and catering monies on matchdays or does some of that go to HFC Holdings.

Oh FFS. Not this old ***** again.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did Hibs benefit from the sale of the area behind the East Stand or was it HFC Holdings. Do Hibs take all the hospitality and catering monies on matchdays or does some of that go to HFC Holdings.

The East Stand question has been done to death on here. You should go back and read some of the many threads on that.

Hospitality income is Hibs'.

Catering income belongs to the caterers. AFAIK, they pay a fee to Hibs.

So....no, no and no.

[Beefster]

It looks more like a clumsy attempt to make Petrie the centre of all this and cause further unrest amongst the Hibs fans to suit their agenda. The good of the club?

Indeed. It doesn't bode well that Low thinks he can manipulate the support before he's even taken over. That's a couple of times already that his statements have been obviously bull**** designed to get the fans onside or thinking a certain way.

[basehibby]

Got to say that the price offered (£3.5M) seems as cheap as chips to me.

Not sure of the exact paper value of Hibs but it's surely shedloads more than that (Assets - Stadium and training ground - turnover c £8M - debt c£6.5M)

Hearts were effectively sold for about £3.5M (or rather their debt was paid off for that knock down price) but they are a total ****ing shambles and therefore not really a meaningful comparison - even to an unexpectedly relegated Hibs.

Given the paltry nature of the offer and the fact that the people behind it are apparently private individuals without direct ties to the club (as opposed to for example a fans collective of some sort), I do not blame Farmer for giving the offer short shrift.

Will be interested to see if Kano's Hibernian Forever group are given any more credence - their offer is touted as being roughly the same in cash but involves a (proposed) fans collective, which may make a big difference to Farmer's thinking IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

Got to say that the price offered (£3.5M) seems as cheap as chips to me.

Not sure of the exact paper value of Hibs but it's surely shedloads more than that (Assets - Stadium and training ground - turnover c £8M - debt c£6.5M)

Hearts were effectively sold for about £3.5M (or rather their debt was paid off for that knock down price) but they are a total ****ing shambles and therefore not really a meaningful comparison - even to an unexpectedly relegated Hibs.

Given the paltry nature of the offer and the fact that the people behind it are apparently private individuals without direct ties to the club (as opposed to for example a fans collective of some sort), I do not blame Farmer for giving the offer short shrift.

Will be interested to see if Kano's Hibernian Forever group are given any more credence - their offer is touted as being roughly the same in cash but involves a (proposed) fans collective, which may make a big difference to Farmer's thinking IMO.

See my post above. The book value of Hibs a year ago was £13.5m.

[Bristolhibby]

For me a "jam tomorrow" offer ain't a proper offer.

I genuinely believe STF wants to keep Hibs alive for generations. As fans we want to kick on from sustainability and translate that into the pitch.

Unfortunately we need someone who isn't afraid to lose money in the short term as there just ain't that much quick cash to be made in Scottish football.

IMO we have turned a corner, it's a shame we had to go down to turn that corner.

[Lucius Apuleius]

The East Stand question has been done to death on here. You should go back and read some of the many threads on that.

Hospitality income is Hibs'.

Catering income belongs to the caterers. AFAIK, they pay a fee to Hibs.

So....no, no and no.

Drat, must have missed these threads!

:greengrin

[HFC 0-7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28774574


8th Para.

" The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian F C. "

That reads to me that the offer from Low was, we will take over the Club and give you nowt for your shares and not repay any loans you have made to the Club.

And, they are upset it was rejected . :confused:

What is the 3.5 million for then?

[greenginger]

That's my take on it, GG.

It also begs the question. Where was the £3.5m going, if it wasn't to the shareholders?


Could it be something like, Give us the club for nowt and we promise we will invest £ 3.5 million over a certain period, and we promise we will not pay ourselves £ 3.5 million in fees ,charges etc. etc .

[BSEJVT]

We don't need change at any price agreed. The current ownership model isn't working on the football side though and needs to change, indeed the last 3-4 years has been the consistently worst football I have witnessed in 37 years of attending. Leigh Griffiths being the only bright spot in that time for me. Change has happened of course but the first team still looks weak to me.

I am yet to be convinced that genuine fan ownership would work in a Scottish context. Hearts have been ultimately forced down that road but many pitfalls lie ahead for them imo. It may work in Germany and Spain but could it work on the level of our fan base, perhaps, perhaps not.

We all have respect for Sir Tom and I certainly feel the club is safe in his hands for future generations. If purely and simply the ONLY thing you want of your football club is guaranteed survival then he and Petrie offer is as a safe a pair of hands as you can get. Whether that is in the top league or not, for a few years at least, remains to be seen. I fear under the current ownership we may be in for our longest stint in the lower leagues in the modern era of football.

It has also been stultifyingly dull. Hibs appear to have become a reflection of Sir Tom and Petries cautious personalities. Perhaps Dempster will turn this around. The David Low consortium might or might not be the best vehicle for taking Hibs forward but from what I listened to they weren't promising outrageous acheivements or mega spending but listening to David Low's interview i heard more passion for football, Scottish football and sport in general than I have heard from Petrie o STF ever.

So in essence I want change, I want passion, I want excitement, I want my clubs future secure and I want it to be challenging in all cups , challenging for European spots and I want ER to become a feared place to visit for opposition teams. I don't think STF/Petrie will deliver all of that.

Nothing lasts forever and at some point we will have to pin our hopes on someone other than Sir Tom, perhaps not change at any price but change can also be as good as a rest and the time just seems right.

Cant argue with any of that.

Fan ownership does intrigue me though.

What if you could harness another source of income from folk who don't go for whatever reason but have some past affinity for the club.

What if some of the support would be prepared to chip into that too.

5000 folk at £20 a month brings in £1.2million.

Imagine if that money was spent on the player pool, unlike the Jambos who will need it to repay debt

Local businesses fund the community aspect of the club through giving to charity which would be tax deductible.

All of sudden you have more folk invested in the day to day fabric of the club who in time might become supporters.

The alternative is to chuck a large sum at in on day 1 in the hope of the famed upward spiral and eventually recouping your investment through that.

The problem is it can easily become a downward one through bad choices and you are back to square 1

At least with fan ownership as described above you have continued income in good times and bad

We shall see what time brings

[Jonnyboy]

I listened to that and heard Low's statement being read out. To me it sounded like a pi55 poor attempt to get fan backing by targeting RP as the stumbling block


I listened to it as well and thought he was very honest and open about all the questions he was asked. Talked about Hibs challenging for the spl or at the highest level. Felt he was looking for the fans approval and emphasised how important the fans were to the club. Emphasised his consortium had money to plough into the team which is what we need right now to take us forward.

Oh and that phanny petrie is a stumbling block now


Petrie GTF


Sorry, confusion here. I listened to his press release being read out, not his audio interview and my comments were based on that. It just struck me that aiming his ire at RP was a not so subtle attempt to get the Hibs fans onboard

Here's what I said several pages back and my response to edwards following my initial post

After hearing DL's statement today, I'm even more convinced he's playing the Petrie card to try and get the support onboard. In any event, it's not Petrie that needs to be convinced, it's STF and he seems to have accepted the independent advice regarding the bid.

I'm not against a change of ownership, I just want the club to pass into safe hands

[BSEJVT]

In what way?

In the way that if people tell a lie often enough others will believe it and spread it.

I absolutely despair at some of the cretins we have who claim to be Hibs supporters who wouldn't know an original thought if it bit them on the arse.

Some folk blindly believe whatever suits their point of view and have neither the intelligence or the integrity to question anything that doesn't reinforce that view.

Sad thing is whoever or whatever our new ownership structure is will face exactly the same criticism in a matter of weeks. I have already cast aspiration on the Low bid just because it doesn't feel right to me so I am no better.

I think you would have to be absolutely mental to get involved with any football club that didn't have a 50% chance or better of winning something annually.

I bang on about fan ownership but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy to be that poor sod who was one of the fans representatives on any management body.

I have no doubt that within the confines of their particular knowledge and beliefs that STF & RP act in Hibs best interests.

I have no doubt that any fans representatives would do also, but the minute things went wrong or they didn't act in the way a certain faction of the support thought they should, even if that faction had no understanding of the issues involved, they would be criticised and branded forever.

Its pathetic,

I will repeat STF & RP aren't perfect and are past their sell by date but unless you believe they have acted dishonestly their vilification by certain sections of the support is an absolute embarrassment to the good name of Hibs.

If I were a potential investor I would be looking in thinking is the limited upside worth the grief, I don't think so.

Apologies for the rant and decrying some of our support but other than poor choices in management and consequent poor choices by management in players, overspending on the infrastructure and failing to throw more personal money at the club I don't see what they have done wrong. Oops forgot Petrie's arrogance as well!

These are pure and simply mistakes not with any malice aforethought borne in part out of Petrie's bean counter background and a reluctance to either incur the necessary costs or give up the necessary control as they have now with LD and other appointments.

Unfortunately they have left it far too late and their bridges with a large part of the support are burnt beyond repair.

For the good of the unity of the club they have to go, I just wonder how long it will take for the next incumbents to be treated the same

[DarlingtonHibee]

http://heavidor.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/statement-re-the-hibernian-football-club-limited-hibernian-fc/

Statement re The Hibernian Football Club Limited (“Hibernian FC”)
On 18 June 2014 I made an offer for the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings Limited, Sir Thomas Farmer and Mr Roderick Petrie on behalf of myself and other investors. That offer was rejected by Mr Petrie yesterday evening (12 August). The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC.

I acknowledge that both gentlemen are entitled to reject any offer they do not consider to be in their best financial interests and I accept their decision.

However, it is apparent that Mr Petrie’s decision has more to do with personal wealth management than any Legacy for Leith and, consequently, their estimation of the value of their investment bears no relation to the reality of the marketplace.

Regretfully, there will be no sunshine on Leith yet.

Best wishes to all Hibernian fans. Be seen in green! Serva Fidem!

David Low

Found on his twitter

Twitter.com/@Heavidor

His pictures about the rangers and celtic are interesting.

David - hope you enjoyed your 2 minutes of fame - now bolt. Well done STF and RP.

Nothing more than a market trader chancer.

Never read such rubbish in my life.

[Eyrie]

I read Low's statement at work and immediately he blamed Petrie I thought "GTF". It comes over as a cheap attempt to blame someone that we all want gone rather than a serious explanation of why Low's bid was rejected. In addition the tone of the press release guarantees that Farmer won't be interested in another offer from Low which would call into question Low's commitment to our club.

I place more faith in the club's response, as I find it hard to believe that a group of "investors" are looking to put more into the club than they want to take back out. This is Scottish football, and even a successful Hibs team that wins a couple of cups every decade and regularly qualifies for Europe isn't going to make anyone a profit.

[Bristolhibby]

The football side of the club - currently - bears no resemblance to the one that saw us relegated to the First Division and I honestly don't think the current management team should be associated with it. I've genuinely given them a clean slate and so far it looks like they're taking advantage of it.

The last 6 or 7 years have been an utter shambles and the performance of the football side of the club over that time period is indefensible. But for the first time in a long time we have taken a very different approach and I welcome it with open arms.

Dempster and Stubbs in particular have impressed me in the short time they have been here. They have worked wonders in a very short time. They have earned my support and with the backing of more people I'm sure they will get us back where we belong.

These are the people we need to get behind because they are the ones that can most affect the outcome of our game this weekend. Not Celtic supporter led consortia of faceless people, fans groups about whom we know nowt, Russian sailors, Mikey Forrester etc etc.

I am in no way an apologist for Petrie - if I am his friend I really hate to see what his enemies are like. But we shouldn't just drop our drawers for the first offer that comes our way. We're worth more than that, even in the First Division.

Agree with this.

Also liking the Trainspotting reference.

J

[DarlingtonHibee]

Why is this guy not investing in his beloved Celtic _ aah they would tell him to bolt as well.

£3.5 m - you are having a laugh - still, got him some publicity - whats the latest on Hibernian Forever ?

[blackpoolhibs]

Why is this guy not investing in his beloved Celtic _ aah they would tell him to bolt as well.

£3.5 m - you are having a laugh - still, got him some publicity - whats the latest on Hibernian Forever ?

Probably still trying to take over a 2nd division Scottish football club.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I'd rather we were owned, run and managed by Rod Petrie alone, with him playing upfront, than see the club sold to a Celtc fan who considers us "green enough". The very idea gies me the boak.

[DarlingtonHibee]

I'd rather we were owned, run and managed by Rod Petrie alone, with him playing upfront, than see the club sold to a Celtc fan who considers us "green enough". The very idea gies me the boak.

:top marks

[bingo70]

Is it the fact he's a Celtic fan or that he's not a hibs fan that's the problem for people?

[Ozyhibby]

I'd rather we were owned, run and managed by Rod Petrie alone, with him playing upfront, than see the club sold to a Celtc fan who considers us "green enough". The very idea gies me the boak.

Lucky for you, that's almost what you have got. Petrie doesn't play up front but there were times last season I wished he did.

[Ozyhibby]

Is it the fact he's a Celtic fan or that he's not a hibs fan that's the problem for people?

It's that he's not Sir Tom. People don't like change.

[Bristolhibby]

Is it the fact he's a Celtic fan or that he's not a hibs fan that's the problem for people?

Both. IMO you need to have a connection to Hibs to do right by Hibs.

STF it was the social and cultural thing for the Leith area.

TBH unless you are a fan, you are in it to try and make a quick buck.

J

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it the fact he's a Celtic fan or that he's not a hibs fan that's the problem for people?

It's the fact that he thinks he can get a £14m company for nowt that is my problem.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Is it the fact he's a Celtic fan or that he's not a hibs fan that's the problem for people?

The fact his interest seems to stem from regarding us as their "wee cousins"

[bingo70]

Both. IMO you need to have a connection to Hibs to do right by Hibs.

STF it was the social and cultural thing for the Leith area.

TBH unless you are a fan, you are in it to try and make a quick buck.

J

Don't agree with that tbh.

I get the whole Celtic fan thing being a problem, the green enough for me bit may be cringe. Dare say I could look past that though If we started investing real money on the team.

I think most people thought like you did when abramovic took over Chelsea. Obviously in England there's greater possibilities to make money but by the same token it costs billions to get involved down there now if you want to win things.

[Weir7]

It's the fact that he thinks he can get a £14m company for nowt that is my problem.

His bid was for zero pounds? And took farmer two months to reject it.

[The Falcon]

As I've said before I'm honestly not convinced Farmer wants to sell. If he does name the price for Hibs. Don't just keep saying "I'll listen to offers" that is a very empty statement in my book.


CWG says that the book price for the company was £13.5m and the offer of £3.5m seems to be a bit complicated now.

As to price I remember a few guys saying that STF (and/or his companie(s)) was at least £8m down on the deal, possibly as much as £12m.

[CropleyWasGod]

His bid was for zero pounds? And took farmer two months to reject it.

The bid of £3.5m wasn't for the shares, apparently.

And it was made just over a month ago. The bid was reviewed by an external adviser.

[Ozyhibby]

It's the fact that he thinks he can get a £14m company for nowt that is my problem.

£14m is the break up value. As a going concern it's a lot less than that.

[Weir7]

The bid of £3.5m wasn't for the shares, apparently.

And it was made just over a month ago. The bid was reviewed by an external adviser.

What was it for?

[The Falcon]

It's that he's not Sir Tom. People don't like change.

I think people are fine with change. What makes folk nervous is when things don't stack up.

[CropleyWasGod]

£14m is the break up value. As a going concern it's a lot less than that.

It's the book value.

Break up, book or going concern, it's not worth nothing.

[CropleyWasGod]

What was it for?

We don't know.

[Weir7]

£14m is the break up value. As a going concern it's a lot less than that.

Correct. Hibs isn't worth much. Hardly over farmers regime has it made money.

Assets only worth money if flats built on pitch. With all the new flats built around the ground. Council won't allow a massive development on the stadium.

[The Falcon]

Correct. Hibs isn't worth much. Hardly over farmers regime has it made money.

Assets only worth money if flats built on pitch. With all the new flats built around the ground. Council won't allow a massive development on the stadium.

Who has?

[Weir7]

We don't know.

Im confused. You said they want hibs fir nothing But they've bid £3.5m for something.

[Weir7]

Who has?

The club. Majority of years lost money.

[Weir7]

I think people are fine with change. What makes folk nervous is when things don't stack up.

what isn't stacking up. What were the details of the bid?

[CropleyWasGod]

The club. Majority of years lost money.

That's not correct. We have made a profit in 7 of the last 10 years.

As for the £3.5m, we don't know what it was for.

According to Low, though, there was to be no money for shares or loans made by STF.

[Ozyhibby]

It's the book value.

Break up, book or going concern, it's not worth nothing.

I agree that it's not worth nothing. I just feel that banding the £14m figure about is way of the mark when we have just seen Hearts sold for £2.5m and the assets of the old Rangers for £5.5m.
The only way to realise £14m is to fold the club and sell the land for development.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree that it's not worth nothing. I just feel that banding the £14m figure about is way of the mark when we have just seen Hearts sold for £2.5m and the assets of the old Rangers for £5.5m.
The only way to realise £14m is to fold the club and sell the land for development.

Of course I realise that. I'm highlighting the £14m to underline the cheek of the bid.

Given that, it wouldn't be a huge step to wonder if realising the worth of the assets was the prime motivation. I'd have a better handle on that if I knew what the £3.5m was for.

[blackpoolhibs]

Nobody in their right mind would pay 12-13m for Hibs, if thats what Farmer wants then he's going to be the owner until he dies.

If he's waiting for any money the club owe him he's a very long wait, or he can cut his losses and get out, there are only 2 options here.

[Ozyhibby]

Back in 2012 our debt situation was

£2.8m payable at £20k per month and £1.6m in Aug 2018
£1.37m due in Oct 2023
£2.5m due as a one off payment in 2020.

I make that £6.7m debt

Today I keep seeing a figure of £12m being used. Where is this from?

[MyJo]

Has someone told this chancer that we aren't insolvent and being sold by an administrator?

I have absolute faith that STF will not sell the club unless he is satisfied it is being taken over by the right kind of people for the right reasons and despite what this attention seeking clown says I cant imagine STF considering his own personal financial gain as the most important thing in any offer.

If he was that interested in making money he would have steered well clear of us when he took over but instead he saved us for the good of Leith and the community and while he hasn't been hands on in running the club he has overseen and facilitated a massive amount of change and modernisation for the better, if and when STF sells up i doubt he will be any better off for it but even if he does end up in profit on the deal then i certainly cant begrudge him that for allowing me to not be a maroon wearing Edinburgh FC supporter.

The mutants from Gorgie hounded out Chris Robinson to the stage where he took the first offer that came along from the mad one and it very nearly cost them thier club. Rangers, despite what the fans tell you, died thanks to a Shyster like Craig Whyte being allowed to breeze into Ibrox as some sort of saviour without anyone seeing/caring what a conman he was.....be careful what you wish for IMO

[CropleyWasGod]

Back in 2012 our debt situation was

£2.8m payable at £20k per month and £1.6m in Aug 2018
£1.37m due in Oct 2023
£2.5m due as a one off payment in 2020.

I make that £6.7m debt

Today I keep seeing a figure of £12m being used. Where is this from?

The 2013 accounts. They're in the vault.

[Bostonhibby]

In what way?

Confusing isn't it? I am not an accountant, but the shareholders statement that I get every year suggests HFC have never taken a dividend, or anything else out of the club they own by way of return on their investment - happy to be put right if I am wrong.

Re Low's bid - I wouldn't have wanted it to be accepted and his side swipe at being unsuccessful vindicates that view - pretty unprofessional. I am aware of many bids being made for businesses (other than football clubs) and when they fail practically nothing is said or leaked for fear of damaging those businesses involved or prejudicing any future involvement / offers. Moment in the limelight, and if he ever approaches me he won't get my shares :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Has someone told this chancer that we aren't insolvent and being sold by an administrator?

I have absolute faith that STF will not sell the club unless he is satisfied it is being taken over by the right kind of people for the right reasons and despite what this attention seeking clown says I cant imagine STF considering his own personal financial gain as the most important thing in any offer.

If he was that interested in making money he would have steered well clear of us when he took over but instead he saved us for the good of Leith and the community and while he hasn't been hands on in running the club he has overseen and facilitated a massive amount of change and modernisation for the better, if and when STF sells up i doubt he will be any better off for it but even if he does end up in profit on the deal then i certainly cant begrudge him that for allowing me to not be a maroon wearing Edinburgh FC supporter.

The mutants from Gorgie hounded out Chris Robinson to the stage where he took the first offer that came along from the mad one and it very nearly cost them thier club. Rangers, despite what the fans tell you, died thanks to a Shyster like Craig Whyte being allowed to breeze into Ibrox as some sort of saviour without anyone seeing/caring what a conman he was.....be careful what you wish for IMO

:agree: This.:thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

Confusing isn't it? I am not an accountant, but the shareholders statement that I get every year suggests HFC have never taken a dividend, or anything else out of the club they own by way of return on their investment - happy to be put right if I am wrong.

Re Low's bid - I wouldn't have wanted it to be accepted and his side swipe at being unsuccessful vindicates that view - pretty unprofessional. I am aware of many bids being made for businesses (other than football clubs) and when they fail practically nothing is said or leaked for fear of damaging those businesses involved or prejudicing any future involvement / offers. Moment in the limelight, and if he ever approaches me he won't get my shares :greengrin

I can't remember Hibs ever paying a dividend. If they had, you would have got it.

[Alfred E Newman]

Has someone told this chancer that we aren't insolvent and being sold by an administrator?

I have absolute faith that STF will not sell the club unless he is satisfied it is being taken over by the right kind of people for the right reasons and despite what this attention seeking clown says I cant imagine STF considering his own personal financial gain as the most important thing in any offer.

If he was that interested in making money he would have steered well clear of us when he took over but instead he saved us for the good of Leith and the community and while he hasn't been hands on in running the club he has overseen and facilitated a massive amount of change and modernisation for the better, if and when STF sells up i doubt he will be any better off for it but even if he does end up in profit on the deal then i certainly cant begrudge him that for allowing me to not be a maroon wearing Edinburgh FC supporter.

The mutants from Gorgie hounded out Chris Robinson to the stage where he took the first offer that came along from the mad one and it very nearly cost them thier club. Rangers, despite what the fans tell you, died thanks to a Shyster like Craig Whyte being allowed to breeze into Ibrox as some sort of saviour without anyone seeing/caring what a conman he was.....be careful what you wish for IMO
Spot on.
Duff and Gray promised the earth and almost took us to the point of extinction. There might not be a Tom Farmer waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces the next time.

[Ozyhibby]

The 2013 accounts. They're in the vault.

So we are £12m in debt? Is that the highest debt in Scottish football?
And people are still defending them. Amazing.

[Bostonhibby]

I can't remember Hibs ever paying a dividend. If they had, you would have got it.

Never have had one pre and post STF holdings, wouldn't want it.

It really isn't a shareholding that many Hibbies would buy for a return. It's a futile holding in terms of influencing the clubs future but it's a piece of our club and the chance to shout at an AGM every so often! If I get 0% in the £ dividend imagine how big STF & RP's zeroes must be:greengrin.

Sir Tom has stuck to his promise to preserve the club all these years but we haven't been investing on the playing side for quite a large part of his tenure now. Its a difficult one - the winner in my eyes would be someone who would buy and own the shares on the same basis as him but with the desire to raise new funds - perhaps with a rights issue to fans - for players, in return for a proper board representation selected by those fans? I favour a meaningful slice of the existing structure being fan owned - enough to influence any future sales.

I am wary of all current bids, real or imagined because of the lack of detail or alternatively the fact that perhaps a few are in the privileged position of having some detail or maybe (worse in my view) are advancing what they feel is right again without gauging support more widely - time will tell.

[zero-seven]

So Petrie what us in hibs best interests ? The way you have taken us from the premier league to championship? The way you have sold our best players to our rivals ? The way way you have put in charge crap managers ? Jeez. Must have been a really crap deal. Did they offer to outdo you by taking us down another league ?.. Numpty

[MyJo]

So Petrie what us in hibs best interests ? The way you have taken us from the premier league to championship? The way you have sold our best players to our rivals ? The way way you have put in charge crap managers ? Jeez. Must have been a really crap deal. Did they offer to outdo you by taking us down another league ?.. Numpty

Petrie only owns 10% of the shares, its STF that is making the decision not to sell......numpty

[edwards]

Agreed, can't believe some of the views on this, Farmer & Petrie must go before Hibs can move forward. They've milked Hibs for years under the guise of HFC Holdings and now they are looking to be overly recompensed for their shareholdings. I won't be back until they go.

Totaly agree with this, David Lowes first offer was never going to be accepted. As hibs fans we need to waken up and realise there isn't any multi million hibs fan out there prepared to put millions into the club. We want petrie out and we want him out now.



Petrie GTF

[Ozyhibby]

Just muddle along as we are in the 1st Division with the highest debt in Scottish football seems to be in our best interests. Now shut up and buy a season ticket.

[matty_f]

That decision was made following independent advice.

[Forza Fred]

Petrie only owns 10% of the shares, its STF that is making the decision not to sell......numpty

While many could rush to suggest that anything is better than what we currently have in place.....that is not necessarily true, and say what you like about Tom Farmer, I'd be inclined to support his judgement on this one.

[blackpoolhibs]

That decision was made following independent advice.

Thats the quote from the club, STF and Rod are the club, i dont believe anything that STF or Rod Petrie say these days.

[MyJo]

Just muddle along as we are in the 1st Division with the highest debt in Scottish football seems to be in our best interests. Now shut up and buy a season ticket.

How much is The Rangers debt? How much are Killie in debt or Aberdeen for that matter?

[WestEndHibee]

While many could rush to suggest that anything is better than what we currently have in place.....that is not necessarily true, and say what you like about Tom Farmer, I'd be inclined to support his judgement on this one.

I would agree 100%

[Bostonhibby]

Totaly agree with this, David Lowes first offer was never going to be accepted. As hibs fans we need to waken up and realise there isn't any multi million hibs fan out there prepared to put millions into the club. We want petrie out and we want him out now.



Petrie GTF

I definitely continue to want Petrie to go, his time has been and gone.

The problem, for the purposes of the take over thread is that if he handed over his entire holding in the holding company that would not constitute a takeover nor do I imagine it would be of any interest to any of the buyers, real or imagined, as it gives them the second largest but still insignificant share of the owners of Hibs. STF holds all the cards.

[MyJo]

While many could rush to suggest that anything is better than what we currently have in place.....that is not necessarily true, and say what you like about Tom Farmer, I'd be inclined to support his judgement on this one.

:agree:

the numpty was aimed at the OP rather than Sir Tom just to clarify :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Totaly agree with this, David Lowes first offer was never going to be accepted. As hibs fans we need to waken up and realise there isn't any multi million hibs fan out there prepared to put millions into the club. We want petrie out and we want him out now.



Petrie GTF

So how have HFC milked Hibs?

[Weir7]

That decision was made following independent advice.

Hahaha brilliant. Petrie worked for a top merchant banker bbefore coming to hibs. This type of deal is bread and butter. farmer don't need advice. More PR bull **** for people to lap up.

[matty_f]

Thats the quote from the club, STF and Rod are the club, i dont believe anything that STF or Rod Petrie say these days.

Bit of an easy lie to call out though, if it's not true.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I could have sworn there was already a 24 page thread on the front page of the forum about this.

[blackpoolhibs]

Bit of an easy lie to call out though, if it's not true.

Is it Matty, who were these independent advisors? :confused:

[weecounty hibby]

Totaly agree with this, David Lowes first offer was never going to be accepted. As hibs fans we need to waken up and realise there isn't any multi million hibs fan out there prepared to put millions into the club. We want petrie out and we want him out now.



Petrie GTF
Yes we want him out but not just to any old passing celtic supporter who thinks we are just about green enough! The more i think about that statement the angrier i get. Arrogant prick!
At least the others know that 3.5mil isn't enough

[CropleyWasGod]

So we are £12m in debt? Is that the highest debt in Scottish football?
And people are still defending them. Amazing.

I didn't say that. You asked where people were getting the figures from.

The debt to external funders, which is probably what you mean, was about £7m a year ago. All of it is secured on property valued at £21m, on a replacement cost basis.

There was a further £1.5m due to HFC Holdings.

[Pretty Boy]

Is it Matty, who were these independent advisors? :confused:

Do you not think if Low hadn't met these independent advisors, as Hibs stated, he would be shouting it from the rooftops?

It would show Petrie and STF as liars and that has to be good PR for him

[Weir7]

Is it Matty, who were these independent advisors? :confused:

Price waterhouse coopers. A publicity stunt by farmer and petrie to shift blame for rejecting bid

[CropleyWasGod]

Price waterhouse coopers. A publicity stunt by farmer and petrie to shift blame for rejecting bid

Where did you get PWC from?

[blackpoolhibs]

Do you not think if Low hadn't met these independent advisors, as Hibs stated, he would be shouting it from the rooftops?

It would show Petrie and STF as liars and that has to be good PR for him

I have no idea if Low met the advisors, i have no idea how these things work? Could Low have met with STF and Petrie and handed over his proposals, that were then given to their advisors to look through?

[Thecat23]

Nobody in their right mind would pay 12-13m for Hibs, if thats what Farmer wants then he's going to be the owner until he dies.

If he's waiting for any money the club owe him he's a very long wait, or he can cut his losses and get out, there are only 2 options here.

Spot on.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have no idea if Low met the advisors, i have no idea how these things work? Could Low have met with STF and Petrie and handed over his proposals, that were then given to their advisors to look through?

"The advice given to the Club was that the proposals set out in heads of terms dated 10 July received from Mr Low's lawyers, and again set out at a subsequent meeting held between Mr Low and the independent adviser, were not in the best interests of the Club. "

[matty_f]

Is it Matty, who were these independent advisors? :confused:

I don't know but the bidders will. If it's bull then it would be easy enough for them to call it out.

[weecounty hibby]

Price waterhouse coopers. A publicity stunt by farmer and petrie to shift blame for rejecting bid

So you think that if a major company like PWC advises not yo accept the bid it is a publicity stunt. Would you be happy to see RP an STF out at any cost? Do you believe they should sell to the first outfit who come along. I think that would be very short sighted and extremely dangerous for us as a club

[Pretty Boy]

I have no idea if Low met the advisors, i have no idea how these things work? Could Low have met with STF and Petrie and handed over his proposals, that were then given to their advisors to look through?

Hibs statement said:

'The advice given to the club was that the proposal set out in heads of term dated 10th July received from Mr Lows lawyers, and again at a subsequent meeting between Mr Low and the independent advisor....'

That seems pretty clear that Low met the advisor.

[matty_f]

Hahaha brilliant. Petrie worked for a top merchant banker bbefore coming to hibs. This type of deal is bread and butter. farmer don't need advice. More PR bull **** for people to lap up.

Good one. I wish I was you.

[blackpoolhibs]

"The advice given to the Club was that the proposals set out in heads of terms dated 10 July received from Mr Low's lawyers, and again set out at a subsequent meeting held between Mr Low and the independent adviser, were not in the best interests of the Club. "

Thanks, could the independent advisors have a pre requisite set of conditions Low would have to meet, given to them by the club before they'd met?

And if so, could that influence their opinion?

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks, could the independent advisors have a pre requisite set of conditions Low would have to meet, given to them by the club before they'd met?

And if so, could that influence their opinion?

I'd say that it would be almost certain that STF would have his own criteria regarding what was "best for the club".

It would be the adviser's job to measure the proposals against those.

[Smartie]

When I skim past the thread title on the main board I keep reading the "David Low bid rejected" bit as David Rowland.

It's enough to bring me out in a cold sweat.

[Bostonhibby]

Spot on.

Cannae really agree that it is.

If this was a hostile owner, someone just wanting to offload, or we were in the yam or the new boys previous situation and a sale was to be forced then Hibs are not in a bad place on a liability to asset basis.

If HFC and the mortgage holders wanted their £8.5 approx. as at a year ago there is @£21m in going concern assets to exercise it against - funnily enough the positive situation here makes us not a bad target for asset strippers and it's the polar opposite to the aforementioned who demonstrated by their own published creditors lists that their liabilities massively exceeded their liabilities. I know who I'd want to have a secured business loan with:wink:

[Alfred E Newman]

Nobody in their right mind would pay 12-13m for Hibs, if thats what Farmer wants then he's going to be the owner until he dies.

If he's waiting for any money the club owe him he's a very long wait, or he can cut his losses and get out, there are only 2 options here.

Or he is not fussy about the money and won't sell till he feels it is in the best interest of the club.

[Ozyhibby]

I didn't say that. You asked where people were getting the figures from.

The debt to external funders, which is probably what you mean, was about £7m a year ago. All of it is secured on property valued at £21m, on a replacement cost basis.

There was a further £1.5m due to HFC Holdings.

So £8.5m.
Still not very good and prob only second to Aberdeen in Scotland and they have an owner who gives a **** and are in the premier league.

[down-the-slope]

I know your joking but it would be nice if that was our target under the new regime.
I've never felt under Farmer that we ever had a plan to win anything, just that it would be nice if it happened.

2 cup wins in his tenure......1 in similar period previous :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd say that it would be almost certain that STF would have his own criteria regarding what was "best for the club".

It would be the adviser's job to measure the proposals against those.

:aok:

[silverhibee]

So we are £12m in debt? Is that the highest debt in Scottish football?
And people are still defending them. Amazing.

Administration can't be far away for us. :cb

[blackpoolhibs]

Or he is not fussy about the money and won't sell till he feels it is in the best interest of the club.

I dont know, in fact nobody knows what he wants?

[marinello59]

So £8.5m.
Still not very good and prob only second to Aberdeen in Scotland and they have an owner who gives a **** and are in the premier league.
That will be the same Stewart Milne that the Aberdeen fans derided for years for lack of investment during a series of poor manager apointments. I guess he started giving a **** when he appointed McInnes. Will you be saying STF cares about the club if Stubbs gets it right?

[madhibby]

"The advice given to the Club was that the proposals set out in heads of terms dated 10 July received from Mr Low's lawyers, and again set out at a subsequent meeting held between Mr Low and the independent adviser, were not in the best interests of the Club. "

I think the owners of the club (i.e. Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie) should publish the advice on why the bid is not in the best interest of the club. The fans deserve that information.

If STF paid around £3m for Hibs then he should be getting around that back for passing the club on. He should not benefit financially from the Club investing player sale proceeds in the stadium or the training ground. I understand STF is a very wealthy man and has the best interests of Hibs at heart. I don’t think what I state is an ureasonable request?

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the owners of the club (i.e. Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie) should publish the advice on why the bid is not in the best interest of the club. The fans deserve that information.

If STF paid around £3m for Hibs then he should be getting around that back for passing the club on. He should not benefit financially from the Club investing player sale proceeds in the stadium or the training ground. I understand STF is a very wealthy man and has the best interests of Hibs at heart. I don’t think what I state is an ureasonable request?

According to Low, STF was getting nothing, though.

[Bostonhibby]

I think the owners of the club (i.e. Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie) should publish the advice on why the bid is not in the best interest of the club. The fans deserve that information.

If STF paid around £3m for Hibs then he should be getting around that back for passing the club on. He should not benefit financially from the Club investing player sale proceeds in the stadium or the training ground. I understand STF is a very wealthy man and has the best interests of Hibs at heart. I don’t think what I state is an ureasonable request?

Yep I agree, if STF can be sure he is passing the club to someone who is not looking to capitalise on the assets or otherwise earn from the future revenue however small - once sold there's no way back.

[Ozyhibby]

That will be the same Stewart Milne that the Aberdeen fans derided for years for lack of investment during a series of poor manager apointments. I guess he started giving a **** when he appointed McInnes. Will you be saying STF cares about the club if Stubbs gets it right?

I've lowered my ambitions now. I just want to be above Ross County. When he makes that happen, I'll cut him some slack.
:-)

[weecounty hibby]

So £8.5m.
Still not very good and prob only second to Aberdeen in Scotland and they have an owner who gives a **** and are in the premier league.

Mate, seriously any chance you could post something positive about Hibs. Everything is so downbeat from you. Aberdeen are in as bad a financial state as us. They also need a new stadium and don't have a training facility like ours. That will add massively to their debt. They hVe massively underachieved for years like us but they have a decent season and all of a sudden you want us to be like them???

[madhibby]

According to Low, STF was getting nothing, though.

Not my understanding - David Low’s statement said they offered £3.5m for the shares of Hibernian Holdings with the two shareholders of that company being STF 90% ad Rod Petrie 10%. My understanding is they want more than £3.5m.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not my understanding - David Low’s statement said they offered £3.5m for the shares of Hibernian Holdings with the two shareholders of that company being STF 90% ad Rod Petrie 10%. My understanding is they want more than £3.5m.

His statement said "On 18 June 2014 I made an offer for the shares in Hibernian FC owned by HFC Holdings Limited, Sir Thomas Farmer and Mr Roderick Petrie on behalf of myself and other investors. That offer was rejected by Mr Petrie yesterday evening (12 August). The principal reason given by Mr Petrie was that it involved no financial consideration in respect of their equity interest and shareholder loan in Hibernian FC.."

It didn't mention the £3.5m.

[CentreLine]

Does anyone think for one moment that there would be vultures circling our club if it was not for the fantastic facilities and huge potential it now has? These were things put in place but the current administration and in as far as they go the current administration should be given great credit for that. Including Rod Petrie. Where exactly were all these would be owners when the hard work needed to be done? Are people so desperate to get rid of RP that they are willing to accept some annonymous group of alleged bidders as better than what we now have? How would it be if Mr Low finally raises the curtain on his bidders and they turn out to be a bunch of asset strippers? Lets face it the value in our club at present, for right reason or none, is in the property it owns.

There can be no question that the football decisions on the other hand have been all but disastrous and everyone accepts that something needs to be done about that. Then, lo an behold we see that something has been done, we have all of these new people in place, a sitation that was spoken about by the club before relegation. Not only that but most people would seem to be delighted with the progress being made by the new team, another plus for the current administration of the club.

I just don't get what all the fuss is about, people have made heir protest and something has been done. What is past is past, can't we all just get on with the future which actually looks fairly promising if people would get behind the club instead of finding excuses to grumble. All this guff about Petrie Out is just a comic side show of the worst kind providing enless humour for every outside looking in and of no relevance to the present where, it seems to be generally accepted, we have a very good management team on place supported by a proven and well respected Chief Executive. What is so wrong or is it compulsory for people to complain incessantly these days?

Just asking?:tin hat:

[Bostonhibby]

Mate, seriously any chance you could post something positive about Hibs. Everything is so downbeat from you. Aberdeen are in as bad a financial state as us. They also need a new stadium and don't have a training facility like ours. That will add massively to their debt. They hVe massively underachieved for years like us but they have a decent season and all of a sudden you want us to be like them???

A quick rough look at AFC last published accounts show that their liabilities were already @140% of their assets and they have been spending since they were filed - not criticising if they manage to earn on the back of their spending - time will tell.

A straight comparison shows us to be at @41%. Much stronger position as long as we pay our way. We could be braver but for all the money we have spent on failure on the pitch, paying off managers and seeing income drop due to their and RP's efforts.

[Liberal Hibby]

The mutants from Gorgie hounded out Chris Robinson to the stage where he took the first offer that came along from the mad one and it very nearly cost them thier club. Rangers, despite what the fans tell you, died thanks to a Shyster like Craig Whyte being allowed to breeze into Ibrox as some sort of saviour without anyone seeing/caring what a conman he was.....be careful what you wish for IMO

This needs repeating ad nauseum.

There are a number of posters on this board who are putting the club's future at risk because they cannot put their hatred of Rod Petrie into perspective. It's exactly why Low implied Pertie was being greedy in turning down his bid. Low hopes that these fans will do his dirty work by forcing out Farmer and Petrie.

[HFC 0-7]

This needs repeating ad nauseum.

There are a number of posters on this board who are putting the club's future at risk because they cannot put their hatred of Rod Petrie into perspective. It's exactly why Low implied Pertie was being greedy in turning down his bid. Low hopes that these fans will do his dirty work by forcing out Farmer and Petrie.

Really, did he tell you that?