Messi best player at the World Cup - Hibs content!

[Paperboy]

Sort of!

there's an article on the BBC (sorry, can't post!) about Messi getting the player of the tournament and the fact that not everyone seems to be happy with it. It it was awarded by FIFA's Technical Study Group.

this group is made up of 13 people who analyse international matches and one of them happens to be 'former Hibernian manager' Mixu! Glad he's obviously learned from his time at Easter Road when it comes to spotting talent!

[lord bunberry]

Messi was never the best player in the tournament

[silverhibee]

Messi was never the best player in the tournament

He wasn't even close to it.

[Jonnyboy]

This reminds me of the Sponsors Man of the Match at ER which invariably goes to the person the sponsors want to meet rather than the best player on the day.

I'm a huge fan of Lionel Messi but giving him that award is a travesty IMO. He wasn't even the best Argentinian player!

[Dave-O]

Messi was never the best player in the tournament

This..........I think even he was embarrassed when he got it, f***ing joke. :rolleyes:

[LaMotta]

Should have been Hames Rodreegez, by far the most exciting player in the World Cup.

Messi wasn't even the best player in the Argentina Team, funny that the Adidas Golden ball won by Adidas's most iconic sponsoree :hmmm:

[emerald green]

Schweinsteiger & Boateng of Germany were miles better than Messi, and that was just last night's game.

As one of the pundits said last night (was it Hansen?) the Barcelona team Messi has been playing in for years is much better than that Argentina national team.

[CropleyWasGod]

As I said on the other thread, the awards will be based on technical data, not personal preference.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Lahm for me

[ManBearPig]

Big Jim Rodriguez for me also boy was incredible but messi was not even in my top 5 of the tournament.

[Weststandwanab]

This reminds me of the Sponsors Man of the Match at ER which invariably goes to the person the sponsors want to meet rather than the best player on the day.

I'm a huge fan of Lionel Messi but giving him that award is a travesty IMO. He wasn't even the best Argentinian player!

I agree on both points.

[jacomo]

Schweinsteiger & Boateng of Germany were miles better than Messi, and that was just last night's game.

As one of the pundits said last night (was it Hansen?) the Barcelona team Messi has been playing in for years is much better than that Argentina national team.

It's not based on just one game though, is it?

I don't think Messi should have won it, but if he had scored his big chance last night no one would quibble. He definitely played his part in getting Argentina to the final.

[Bostonhibby]

Major sponsor makes sure their player wins award, its how football at that level works, the ordinary fans see through it but ain't really able to do much about it.

[Eyrie]

Messi was anonymous in both the semi and the final. Rodriguez or Schweinsteiger for me.

[Gordy M]

Do you i had this very discussion with guys at work today and although we disagreed about messi we couldnt really think of anyone else?!? Maybe thomas muller, neuer or mascherano. Rodriguez was good but only got to quarters and did nothing against brazil. Swiensteiger didnt start in the german team, he was a sub, tho played well last night. I dont think anyone stood out for me. Its prob gone on stats and a player who appeared in the final?

[emerald green]

It's not based on just one game though, is it?

I don't think Messi should have won it, but if he had scored his big chance last night no one would quibble. He definitely played his part in getting Argentina to the final.

:agree: You're right, it is based on more than one game. I was just really impressed by those two German players in particular I mentioned in my earlier post.

I'm not slagging off Messi by the way - he's a great player - but I also agree with you that he should not have been awarded a trophy as best player at the World Cup. He looked like he could have thrown the thing away. I don't know if he wanted it himself.

[hibbysam]

'He wasn't even the best Argentina player' - really? People genuinely mean that? He dragged a terrible Argentina team through the groups and into the semi where he struggled against a well drilled Dutch side... I also thought he had a very good first half in the final then faded second half!

You can't give a player of the tournament award to someone who got dumped out in the quarters and wasn't good that day... Neuer maybe but he got the goalie award so no complaints there... Then none of the other Germans were exceptional, they did well as a team but had there struggles as well... Without messi's group goals Argentina would have been away home with 2 points...

[emerald green]

'He wasn't even the best Argentina player' - really? People genuinely mean that? He dragged a terrible Argentina team through the groups and into the semi where he struggled against a well drilled Dutch side... I also thought he had a very good first half in the final then faded second half!

You can't give a player of the tournament award to someone who got dumped out in the quarters and wasn't good that day... Neuer maybe but he got the goalie award so no complaints there... Then none of the other Germans were exceptional, they did well as a team but had there struggles as well... Without messi's group goals Argentina would have been away home with 2 points...

They didn't struggle much to destroy Brazil 7-1 in their own back yard. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

'He wasn't even the best Argentina player' - really? People genuinely mean that? He dragged a terrible Argentina team through the groups and into the semi where he struggled against a well drilled Dutch side... I also thought he had a very good first half in the final then faded second half!

You can't give a player of the tournament award to someone who got dumped out in the quarters and wasn't good that day... Neuer maybe but he got the goalie award so no complaints there... Then none of the other Germans were exceptional, they did well as a team but had there struggles as well... Without messi's group goals Argentina would have been away home with 2 points...

As I said earlier, I'm a massive fan of Messi and to a degree you are right that he was influential in getting Argentina to the final but IMO, having watched all their games, Mascherano contributed more to their progress than Lionel did

[lord bunberry]

He wasn't even close to it.

Apparently he didn't even have a shot on target after the group stages.

[eastterrace]

Do you i had this very discussion with guys at work today and although we disagreed about messi we couldnt really think of anyone else?!? Maybe thomas muller, neuer or mascherano. Rodriguez was good but only got to quarters and did nothing against brazil. Swiensteiger didnt start in the german team, he was a sub, tho played well last night. I dont think anyone stood out for me. Its prob gone on stats and a player who appeared in the final?

thought robben has been superb, but messi up there with pele maradona and cruyf , he aint anywhere near these guys.

[Fenriz]

How did Mixu end up on this panel?

[CropleyWasGod]

How did Mixu end up on this panel?

He's an international manager.

[hibbysam]

As I said earlier, I'm a massive fan of Messi and to a degree you are right that he was influential in getting Argentina to the final but IMO, having watched all their games, Mascherano contributed more to their progress than Lionel did

Mascherano was good in the final few games yes... But was part of a defence that looked as bad as ever and took a whole load of flack in the group stages conceding four in just the 3 games. If Robben got the player of the tournament it would have been a kick in the teeth for fair play after he cheated his way past Mexico.

[Jonnyboy]

Mascherano was good in the final few games yes... But was part of a defence that looked as bad as ever and took a whole load of flack in the group stages conceding four in just the 3 games. If Robben got the player of the tournament it would have been a kick in the teeth for fair play after he cheated his way past Mexico.

I guess we'll need to agree to disagree Sam and I'll go on thinking LM is the best player in the world :greengrin

[hibbysam]

I guess we'll need to agree to disagree Sam and I'll go on thinking LM is the best player in the world :greengrin

Knowing LM is the best player in the world :greengrin:not worth

[Jonnyboy]

Knowing LM is the best player in the world :greengrin:not worth

Indeed :thumbsup:

[LaMotta]

Do you i had this very discussion with guys at work today and although we disagreed about messi we couldnt really think of anyone else?!? Maybe thomas muller, neuer or mascherano. Rodriguez was good but only got to quarters and did nothing against brazil. Swiensteiger didnt start in the german team, he was a sub, tho played well last night. I dont think anyone stood out for me. Its prob gone on stats and a player who appeared in the final?


The Brazilians attempted to boot him out the game, yet he still looked class, and managed to set up a penalty with a sublime through ball leading to the one on one - and he then converted the pen! wee bit more than nothing :greengrin

[weonlywon6-2]

Messi was never the best player in the tournament

Cannot see how he was the best player,he walked about more than often than not on the pitch.
The world cup had better players than him

[TRC]

Lahm it had to be Lahm was outstanding the whole tournament played a few different positions.

[Unseen work]

No chance

James Rodriguez - was carrying Columbia and every touch was genius, cracking prospect

Shwiensteiger - the pulse of Germany, plays with so much passion and literally bleeds German

Neur- what a keeper, best in the world by such a distance. So quick off his line to take the pressure off his defence and good on the ball, can tell he's a massive influence and confidence booster to have in your team

Special mention to Ecuador striker Valencia who really impressed me too

[Unseen work]

In fact i wouldn't of eve said messi was the best Argentinian player, masherano was brilliant IMO

[Hibbyradge]

Messi was never the best player in the tournament

He wasn't even the best player in the Argentina team!

[Hibbyradge]

In fact i wouldn't of eve said messi was the best Argentinian player, masherano was brilliant IMO

Boooooooo!

:greengrin

[Unseen work]

Boooooooo!

:greengrin

Not a fan I take it? :D

[Haymaker]

Knowing LM is the best player in the world :greengrin:not worth

Lionel Messi is not the best player in the world.

Cristiano Ronaldo is.

Fact.

[heretoday]

He missed two sitters. One in the quarters and one in the final. He's not the best in the world any more.

[TRC]

At least we're still better known than Kilmarnock as it says ex Hibernian manager!

[WeeRussell]

Argentina 2 - 1 Bosnia... Messi picks up the ball plays a 1-2 (taking a few defenders out the game) and slots the ball perfectly into the bottom left corner. Turns out to be the winning goal and 3 points in the Argentine's opening game.

Argentina 1 - 0 Iran. Iran are well drilled and cause the Argies a few problems throughout the game. Messi picks the ball up in a seemingly safe position... knocks the ball past a couple of defenders and curls his effort perfectly into the top left corner. Wins the game in the last minute and puts Argentina on 6 points.. on their way through.

Argentina 3 - 2 Nigeria. Argentina's defence looks ropey as they lose two goals to Nigeria. Messi however scores after 3 minutes, and again in the first half with a superb free-kick (having had a similar effort saved by the keeper minutes earlier).. once again, his goal is the deciding one and Argentina go through as group-leaders taking maximum points.

Argentina 1 - 0 Switzerland. Argentina are held until extra time. Messi picks the ball up and bursts away from the Swiss midfield/defence, lays the ball on a plate for Di Maria and the Argentines progress to the quarters.

Argentina 1 - 0 Belgium. Great work from Messi as he turns 3 Belgium players to set-up an attack down the right. Higuain finishes off the move with a great finish into bottom corner. Argentina go through.

Argentina (p) 0 - 0 Netherlands. Argentina get through on pens having looked in relative control throughout. Messi (and the rest of the Argentines) slot their pens with minimal fuss. Macherano MOTM in the first game of the tournament that Messi hasn't been the most important Argentine on the field.

Argentina 0 - 1 Germany (AET)... Messi and Argentina have a positive first half, playing largely on the counter attack. Messi and Lavezzi get behind the left back quite a few times. Higuain misses great chance and also has goal correctly chopped off. Messi doesn't have the best of second halves, mainly down to missing a chance you would normally see him stick away. Doesn't appear to happen for him in Extra time and the Germans pip the Argies before pens.


Fair enough - it can be argued that he wasn't the best performer at the World Cup and also that he wasn't at his brilliant best... but it is hardly scandalous that he was given the award considering his contribution throughout, and some of the comments regarding him and his performance have been ridiculous. Yes the Barca teams he has played in are better than that Argentinian team.. hence it was all the more impressive that he was able to carry them through and progress all the way to the final.

Of course he is still the best player in the world. "Not in the same bracket as Pele and Maradona" etc I imagine is being used largely by people who have seen a few minutes worth of the older guys' footage. The boy is, and always will be unbelievable.

[--------]

Lionel Messi is not the best player in the world.

Cristiano Ronaldo is.

Fact.


Nope. OPINION. :devil:

And since this award was about the best player in THIS WORLD CUP ....

To do Messi credit he was clearly embarrassed by the award and seemed very unwilling to receive it. There were very few really outstanding players this time around; I'm not sure who stood out enough to be given the trophy without controversy. Irritating as he can be, I think I'd probably have voted for Schweinsteiger ...

[stoneyburn hibs]

Big Bastian was the standout for me throughout the tournament. Especially his performance in the final.

[lord bunberry]

Big Bastian was the standout for me throughout the tournament. Especially his performance in the final.

That's who I'd have went for, he was pulling the strings for Germany in most games.

[--------]

That's who I'd have went for, he was pulling the strings for Germany in most games.

He's a very good player. My choice too. :agree:

[Haymaker]

Nope. OPINION. :devil:

And since this award was about the best player in THIS WORLD CUP ....

To do Messi credit he was clearly embarrassed by the award and seemed very unwilling to receive it. There were very few really outstanding players this time around; I'm not sure who stood out enough to be given the trophy without controversy. Irritating as he can be, I think I'd probably have voted for Schweinsteiger ...

No. FACT.

Ronaldo is reigning World Player of the Year. Therefore he IS the Worlds best player. FACT.

[poolman]

This reminds me of the Sponsors Man of the Match at ER which invariably goes to the person the sponsors want to meet rather than the best player on the day.

I'm a huge fan of Lionel Messi but giving him that award is a travesty IMO. He wasn't even the best Argentinian player!


:agree: When RL was playing for us we used to call it the Russell Latapy Man Of The Match Award :tee hee:

[Eyrie]

Argentina 2 - 1 Bosnia... Messi picks up the ball plays a 1-2 (taking a few defenders out the game) and slots the ball perfectly into the bottom left corner. Turns out to be the winning goal and 3 points in the Argentine's opening game.

Argentina 1 - 0 Iran. Iran are well drilled and cause the Argies a few problems throughout the game. Messi picks the ball up in a seemingly safe position... knocks the ball past a couple of defenders and curls his effort perfectly into the top left corner. Wins the game in the last minute and puts Argentina on 6 points.. on their way through.

Argentina 3 - 2 Nigeria. Argentina's defence looks ropey as they lose two goals to Nigeria. Messi however scores after 3 minutes, and again in the first half with a superb free-kick (having had a similar effort saved by the keeper minutes earlier).. once again, his goal is the deciding one and Argentina go through as group-leaders taking maximum points.

Argentina 1 - 0 Switzerland. Argentina are held until extra time. Messi picks the ball up and bursts away from the Swiss midfield/defence, lays the ball on a plate for Di Maria and the Argentines progress to the quarters.

Argentina 1 - 0 Belgium. Great work from Messi as he turns 3 Belgium players to set-up an attack down the right. Higuain finishes off the move with a great finish into bottom corner. Argentina go through.

Argentina (p) 0 - 0 Netherlands. Argentina get through on pens having looked in relative control throughout. Messi (and the rest of the Argentines) slot their pens with minimal fuss. Macherano MOTM in the first game of the tournament that Messi hasn't been the most important Argentine on the field.

Argentina 0 - 1 Germany (AET)... Messi and Argentina have a positive first half, playing largely on the counter attack. Messi and Lavezzi get behind the left back quite a few times. Higuain misses great chance and also has goal correctly chopped off. Messi doesn't have the best of second halves, mainly down to missing a chance you would normally see him stick away. Doesn't appear to happen for him in Extra time and the Germans pip the Argies before pens.


Fair enough - it can be argued that he wasn't the best performer at the World Cup and also that he wasn't at his brilliant best... but it is hardly scandalous that he was given the award considering his contribution throughout, and some of the comments regarding him and his performance have been ridiculous. Yes the Barca teams he has played in are better than that Argentinian team.. hence it was all the more impressive that he was able to carry them through and progress all the way to the final.

Of course he is still the best player in the world. "Not in the same bracket as Pele and Maradona" etc I imagine is being used largely by people who have seen a few minutes worth of the older guys' footage. The boy is, and always will be unbelievable.
No-one is disputing Messi's overall talent, but even you are admitting that he wasn't the best performer at the World Cup.

He was anonymous in their two biggest games when other players rose to the occasion, and that alone should disqualify him for the award.

[--------]

No. FACT.

Ronaldo is reigning World Player of the Year. Therefore he IS the Worlds best player. FACT.

No. That's still opinion. The opinion of a small group of people who consider themselves more expert than lesser mortals.

You telling me that whatever piece of cacophonous drivel wins the Eurovision Song Contest's always the best "song" entered?

What a very simple world you live in.

"The jury is always right." :devil:

[hibbysam]

No. FACT.

Ronaldo is reigning World Player of the Year. Therefore he IS the Worlds best player. FACT.

Ronaldo was the world player of the year for 2013... This is now July 2014 and he has barely kicked a ball since getting that award! Just because Germany won the World Cup this year doesn't mean they'll still be the worlds best side in 2017! Fact is messi had been twice the player of Ronaldo this year and stats will prove that... Injuries hampered messi last year, Ronaldo has been done with them this year... Ronaldo's Portugal got dumped out the tournament in the groups!

[Scouse Hibee]

We can safely say that if there had been a fans player of the tournament award it would not have been awarded to Messi!

[skipster7]

Argentina 2 - 1 Bosnia... Messi picks up the ball plays a 1-2 (taking a few defenders out the game) and slots the ball perfectly into the bottom left corner. Turns out to be the winning goal and 3 points in the Argentine's opening game.

Argentina 1 - 0 Iran. Iran are well drilled and cause the Argies a few problems throughout the game. Messi picks the ball up in a seemingly safe position... knocks the ball past a couple of defenders and curls his effort perfectly into the top left corner. Wins the game in the last minute and puts Argentina on 6 points.. on their way through.

Argentina 3 - 2 Nigeria. Argentina's defence looks ropey as they lose two goals to Nigeria. Messi however scores after 3 minutes, and again in the first half with a superb free-kick (having had a similar effort saved by the keeper minutes earlier).. once again, his goal is the deciding one and Argentina go through as group-leaders taking maximum points.

Argentina 1 - 0 Switzerland. Argentina are held until extra time. Messi picks the ball up and bursts away from the Swiss midfield/defence, lays the ball on a plate for Di Maria and the Argentines progress to the quarters.

Argentina 1 - 0 Belgium. Great work from Messi as he turns 3 Belgium players to set-up an attack down the right. Higuain finishes off the move with a great finish into bottom corner. Argentina go through.

Argentina (p) 0 - 0 Netherlands. Argentina get through on pens having looked in relative control throughout. Messi (and the rest of the Argentines) slot their pens with minimal fuss. Macherano MOTM in the first game of the tournament that Messi hasn't been the most important Argentine on the field.

Argentina 0 - 1 Germany (AET)... Messi and Argentina have a positive first half, playing largely on the counter attack. Messi and Lavezzi get behind the left back quite a few times. Higuain misses great chance and also has goal correctly chopped off. Messi doesn't have the best of second halves, mainly down to missing a chance you would normally see him stick away. Doesn't appear to happen for him in Extra time and the Germans pip the Argies before pens.


Fair enough - it can be argued that he wasn't the best performer at the World Cup and also that he wasn't at his brilliant best... but it is hardly scandalous that he was given the award considering his contribution throughout, and some of the comments regarding him and his performance have been ridiculous. Yes the Barca teams he has played in are better than that Argentinian team.. hence it was all the more impressive that he was able to carry them through and progress all the way to the final.

Of course he is still the best player in the world. "Not in the same bracket as Pele and Maradona" etc I imagine is being used largely by people who have seen a few minutes worth of the older guys' footage. The boy is, and always will be unbelievable.
spot on imo

[--------]

We can safely say that if there had been a fans player of the tournament award it would not have been awarded to Messi!

Probably not. Here's a thought, though - who would get to vote?

The fans in the stadiums? The fans watching on the big screens outside the stadiums as well? Fans watching on big screens in other countries like Germany? Fans watching on TV in Brazil? Fans watching on TV worldwide? Fans following on the Internet?

Arguably everyone watching on TV has contributed towards the cost of the tournament, or contributed to the profits it has made. So who gets to vote? Can I vote? Who would get the Liverpool vote? (I'm guessing not a former Man Utd player. :wink:)

And even supposing the whole world-wide TV and live audience gets to vote, the winner's STILL only the Player of the Tournament.

There is no way any player can ever be said to be unarguably and incontrovertibly the Best Player in the World. There were the same sort of arguments about Puskas and Di Stefano in the 50's as we have now about Messi and Ronaldo. No one ever really got to the end of it.

But then we didn't put an X-Factor type jury on the job then.

[heretoday]

Schurrle was the MOM in the final. That head injury was a boon for Germany.

[Haymaker]

No. That's still opinion. The opinion of a small group of people who consider themselves more expert than lesser mortals.

You telling me that whatever piece of cacophonous drivel wins the Eurovision Song Contest's always the best "song" entered?

What a very simple world you live in.

"The jury is always right." :devil:


Not a simple world. He is the best based on opinions of football people.

You love a DV but there isnt one here.

Messi is not the worlds best player. FACT.

[Haymaker]

Ronaldo was the world player of the year for 2013... This is now July 2014 and he has barely kicked a ball since getting that award! Just because Germany won the World Cup this year doesn't mean they'll still be the worlds best side in 2017! Fact is messi had been twice the player of Ronaldo this year and stats will prove that... Injuries hampered messi last year, Ronaldo has been done with them this year... Ronaldo's Portugal got dumped out the tournament in the groups!

Hasnt kicked a ball?

I guess scoring in this years - that would be 2014 - Champions League final is not kicking a ball. Or two in the Semi finals.

What winners medals did Messi receive this season?

Messi is a great player. He is NOT CURRENTLY the worlds best player. That, once again, is FACT.

[hibbysam]

Hasnt kicked a ball?

I guess scoring in this years - that would be 2014 - Champions League final is not kicking a ball. Or two in the Semi finals.

What winners medals did Messi receive this season?

Messi is a great player. He is NOT CURRENTLY the worlds best player. That, once again, is FACT.

Sorry, your bang on, I'm wrong... Ronaldo won that final on his own by scoring that penalty... His team were 3-1 up in the last minute.. Remind me of his celebration? He did nothing for 120 minutes yet celebrated as always, like it was his goal that won the cup...

Messi had a 'poor' World Cup according to accounts... Yet was 2nd? Top scorer and got his side to the final... A horrendous team that meant he had to play some deep role to get the ball and try and score at the other end!

Ronaldo's side got humped in the groups.

Winners medals don't make you a great player, if they did then messi is unarguably the best ever without a doubt!

Individual stats and worth to a team make you the best...

[Haymaker]

Hibbysam I cannot quote your post on my phone but here is my reply.

Is Messi the current, reigning, WORLD PLAYER OF THE YEAR?

No.

He is not.

Why?

Because he is not considered, currently, to be the best player in the world. Voted by actual football managers.

You say he hasnt "kicked a ball" in 2014. Now literally that isnt true so behave.

Messi wasnt 2nd top goalscorer. Rodriquez was 1st, Muller 2nd. Messi scored 4 I believe.

You also said Messi had a horrendous team yet you slate Ronaldo for going out early? He dragged that team there. (watch the playoff game)

[WeeRussell]

Hibbysam I cannot quote your post on my phone but here is my reply.

Is Messi the current, reigning, WORLD PLAYER OF THE YEAR?

No.

He is not.

Why?

Because he is not considered, currently, to be the best player in the world. Voted by actual football managers.

You say he hasnt "kicked a ball" in 2014. Now literally that isnt true so behave.

Messi wasnt 2nd top goalscorer. Rodriquez was 1st, Muller 2nd. Messi scored 4 I believe.

You also said Messi had a horrendous team yet you slate Ronaldo for going out early? He dragged that team there. (watch the playoff game)

And then failed to get out the group, scoring 1 goal. Messi "dragged" his team to there, scored 4 goals and took them all the way to the final... FACT?

I suspect you just have a personal problem with Lionel Messi or a special thing for Cristiano Ronaldo and it bothers you that he isn't quite on the same level.. but I'll go on in any case...

Does this then, by your logic, mean that Messi WAS the best player at the tournament... seeing as he won an award which says so and all? FACT?

Therefore - as his award was more recent and Ronaldo played at the same tournament.... does this not mean that Messi is the best player in the world again?

Or does it depend on what "Experts" are giving these opinions, whether or not the result then makes a FACT?

[hibbysam]

And then failed to get out the group, scoring 1 goal. Messi "dragged" his team to there, scored 4 goals and took them all the way to the final... FACT?

I suspect you just have a personal problem with Lionel Messi or a special thing for Cristiano Ronaldo and it bothers you that he isn't quite on the same level.. but I'll go on in any case...

Does this then, by your logic, mean that Messi WAS the best player at the tournament... seeing as he won an award which says so and all? FACT?

Therefore - as his award was more recent and Ronaldo played at the same tournament.... does this not mean that Messi is the best player in the world again?

Or does it depend on what "Experts" are giving these opinions, whether or not the result then makes a FACT?

Amen! Discussion over.

[Haymaker]

And then failed to get out the group, scoring 1 goal. Messi "dragged" his team to there, scored 4 goals and took them all the way to the final... FACT?

I suspect you just have a personal problem with Lionel Messi or a special thing for Cristiano Ronaldo and it bothers you that he isn't quite on the same level.. but I'll go on in any case...

Does this then, by your logic, mean that Messi WAS the best player at the tournament... seeing as he won an award which says so and all? FACT?

Therefore - as his award was more recent and Ronaldo played at the same tournament.... does this not mean that Messi is the best player in the world again?

Or does it depend on what "Experts" are giving these opinions, whether or not the result then makes a FACT?

They did fail to get out of the group after he dragged them to the World Cup. He did score 1 goal. However, if we are going to class that as any requirement to be a top player then Gareth Bale will never be decent eh?

I do not have any problem with Lionel Messi. Or anything special for Cristiano Ronaldo. They are both equally brilliant in different styles. Messi is, however, currently not the Worlds best player - Cristiano Ronaldo currently is. That is, once again, fact.

By my logic it does indeed mean he was the best player in the Tournament - Personally I would have chosen Rodriquez but Messi has been awarded it and so he was the best player at the WC. It is NOT a trophy that gives him status as the "Best in the World." There is only one of those and it currently resides at a Mr C. Ronaldos house.

[WeeRussell]

They did fail to get out of the group after he dragged them to the World Cup. He did score 1 goal. However, if we are going to class that as any requirement to be a top player then Gareth Bale will never be decent eh?

I do not have any problem with Lionel Messi. Or anything special for Cristiano Ronaldo. They are both equally brilliant in different styles. Messi is, however, currently not the Worlds best player - Cristiano Ronaldo currently is. That is, once again, fact.

By my logic it does indeed mean he was the best player in the Tournament - Personally I would have chosen Rodriquez but Messi has been awarded it and so he was the best player at the WC. It is NOT a trophy that gives him status as the "Best in the World." There is only one of those and it currently resides at a Mr C. Ronaldos house.


I will never, ever class Gareth Bale in the same bracket as Messi or Ronaldo. And to me, I don't class how someone's international team performs as a requirement to be a top player (hence the "Messi needs to win a world cup to be considered alongside Maradona" nonsense irritates me), I was simply continuing on from your analysis, but you make a fair point.

So is Ronaldo really the best player in the world until the Balan D'Or is handed over to someone else, and then when as soon as the new player receives that award.. he becomes the best? Really? What if Ronaldo retires before then?


... or is it perfectly feasible that the people who win these awards, have done so through opinion. Opinions that differ largely amongst many supporters and give us all something else on football to debate?

Were Greece the best football team in Europe for the 4 years they held onto the trophy?

[Haymaker]

I will never, ever class Gareth Bale in the same bracket as Messi or Ronaldo. And to me, I don't class how someone's international team performs as a requirement to be a top player (hence the "Messi needs to win a world cup to be considered alongside Maradona" nonsense irritates me), I was simply continuing on from your analysis, but you make a fair point.

So is Ronaldo really the best player in the world until the Balan D'Or is handed over to someone else, and then when as soon as the new player receives that award.. he becomes the best? Really? What if Ronaldo retires before then?


... or is it perfectly feasible that the people who win these awards, have done so through opinion. Opinions that differ largely amongst many supporters and give us all something else on football to debate?

Were Greece the best football team in Europe for the 4 years they held onto the trophy?

The Gareth Bale comment may have been stretching it but I am glad you see my point.

Yes, Ronaldo is the best player until it is awarded to someone else (realistically only back to Messi) just as Manchester City are the Champions of England until someone takes it away (or doesn't obviously) or Real Madrid are Champions of Europe until someone takes that away. Were Greece the best football team in Europe? They won it, beating every team to the final and winning the trophy making them Champions of Europe - the best in Europe.

However comparing international sides with individual players is difficult - One lucky tournament and you're European Champions same as you can have a great side and get pumped out at the group stages. To be awarded the Ballon D'or is so a full 12 months of excellence at all levels, domestic, European and international regardless of results or trophies really (although if you're in the running for it I would guess you have a decent shot at trophies!)

[brian6-2]

They did fail to get out of the group after he dragged them to the World Cup. He did score 1 goal. However, if we are going to class that as any requirement to be a top player then Gareth Bale will never be decent eh?

I do not have any problem with Lionel Messi. Or anything special for Cristiano Ronaldo. They are both equally brilliant in different styles. Messi is, however, currently not the Worlds best player - Cristiano Ronaldo currently is. That is, once again, fact.

By my logic it does indeed mean he was the best player in the Tournament - Personally I would have chosen Rodriquez but Messi has been awarded it and so he was the best player at the WC. It is NOT a trophy that gives him status as the "Best in the World." There is only one of those and it currently resides at a Mr C. Ronaldos house.

Heres a wee FACT for you seeing as your hell bent on stating them.

Messi has won it 3 times. Ronaldo 1 time.

Messi is the best in the world.

End of discussion.

[Haymaker]

Heres a wee FACT for you seeing as your hell bent on stating them.

Messi has won it 3 times. Ronaldo 1 time.

Messi is the best in the world.

End of discussion.


If you're going to state FACTs get them correct.

Messi has 4, Ronaldo has 2.

If you ignore the "merger" of the best player award. It's still the same award.

[brian6-2]

If you're going to state FACTs get them correct.

Messi has 4, Ronaldo has 2.

If you ignore the "merger" of the best player award. It's still the same award.

Ok you got me there, but my point still stands. Surely the person who has won it most times is the best?

All about opinion though really, and in mine neither of them could lace diego maradonna's puma kings.

[WeeRussell]

If you're going to state FACTs get them correct.

Messi has 4, Ronaldo has 2.

If you ignore the "merger" of the best player award. It's still the same award.

Thing is - you can't really just ignore the merger and call it the same award as it would go against the point you are trying to make.

The Balan D'or used to be for the best player in Europe (not the World).. which would mean any of these do not count towards the FACTS. However I appreciate it wasn't you that was counting the amount won over the years in the first place

[Haymaker]

Thing is - you can't really just ignore the merger and call it the same award as it would go against the point you are trying to make.

The Balan D'or used to be for the best player in Europe (not the World).. which would mean any of these do not count towards the FACTS. However I appreciate it wasn't you that was counting the amount won over the years in the first place

Well yes, it was the trophy for best European player, then best player in Europe and now best player in the world. That said, has any player playing outside Europe ever been seriously considered? Europe has always been the best area to play in so you can count them in my opinion.

If we don't ignore it the basic fact remains the same anyway - Messi has two more than Ronaldo.

It still, and this is my main point, doesn't mean Messi is the best player because it is currently Ronaldo that is considered by his peers and managers to be the best.

Should that change in December then it will be that player who is the best and no one else.

EDIT: Had a cheeky wee check and the FIFA World Player of the Year and Balon D'or Winners were usually the same player prior to the Merge back to 2005.

[HibbyAndy]

James Rodriguez was the best player at the tournament, I can think of at least 10 players of the top of my heid that were better than Messi.

[--------]

Not a simple world. He is the best based on opinions of football people.

You love a DV but there isnt one here.

Messi is not the worlds best player. FACT.


SOME football people.

Not ALL football people.

And even the FACT that SOME football people say Ronaldo's the best player in the world is, as you yourself admit in the post quoted above, simply a matter of on their collective OPINION.

And I'm not suggesting Messi is the world's best player. I said I thought the award for player of the tournament (NOT world's best player) should probably have gone to Sebastian Schweinsteiger.

You're the one who's insisting that Ronaldo's the best in the world.

Which is your opinion, to which you're entirely entitled.

You may well be right.

But it's still your opinion, based on the opinions of others who voted him a title based on their opinions of him and of a number of other possible candidates.

But you really shouldn't pass off your opinions (or the opinions of others) as FACT. :devil: