Thomson on Butcher

[TowerHibs]

May as well start the thread as someone else will in a moment. KT speaks out against Butcher. Nothing new although kev has always liked a over friendly chat with the press. Just let's all be glad Butcher is away and we can rebuild

New Dundee captain Kevin Thomson has lifted the lid on his troubled season at Hibs and his strained relationship with Terry Butcher.

Thomson has a smile on his face again, having signed for the Scottish Premiership new boys, but admits it was tough when he was slapped on the transfer list by former Easter Road manager Butcher back in January before being released following Hibs’ relegation to the Championship at the end of the season.

Thomson had a spring in his step as he returned yesterday from Dundee’s gruelling week-long training camp in Budapest, and the former Rangers and Middlesbrough midfielder has revealed he was intent on preserving his own reputation during those trying times at Easter Road when he found himself frozen out.

Thomson said: “The hard thing for me at Hibs was that I was going through a spell where I wasn’t enjoying going into training. He [Butcher] made it really difficult for me but fortunately for me the way I have always been in my career, I just kept my head down and working away.

“I think everyone thought it was an unusual situation at Hibs. I never touted myself around as the best player at Hibs or anything like that. But a lot of people were saying ‘how can the best player sit on the bench’?

“Maybe if I had been 23 or 24 I would have been kicking doors in every day demanding that I wanted to play a bit more. But I am more experienced now and I never gave him any opportunity to say anything bad about me.

“I think that made it harder that I tried to do everything asked of me and I still didn’t get an opportunity. I don’t want to get into a war of words with him.

“I just want to move on and I now have a manager [Paul Hartley] who really believes in me and hopefully I can repay him.

“He has been brilliant with me as has every other manager I have worked with in my career, apart from the last six months under Terry Butcher which was a sickener for me but hopefully there will be good times ahead again. It is a good group of boys at Dundee and a great club – so far so good.”

[seven nowt]

May as well start the thread as someone else will in a moment. KT speaks out against Butcher. Nothing new although kev has always liked a over friendly chat with the press. Just let's all be glad Butcher is away and we can rebuild

New Dundee captain Kevin Thomson has lifted the lid on his troubled season at Hibs and his strained relationship with Terry Butcher.

Thomson has a smile on his face again, having signed for the Scottish Premiership new boys, but admits it was tough when he was slapped on the transfer list by former Easter Road manager Butcher back in January before being released following Hibs’ relegation to the Championship at the end of the season.

Thomson had a spring in his step as he returned yesterday from Dundee’s gruelling week-long training camp in Budapest, and the former Rangers and Middlesbrough midfielder has revealed he was intent on preserving his own reputation during those trying times at Easter Road when he found himself frozen out.

Thomson said: “The hard thing for me at Hibs was that I was going through a spell where I wasn’t enjoying going into training. He [Butcher] made it really difficult for me but fortunately for me the way I have always been in my career, I just kept my head down and working away.

“I think everyone thought it was an unusual situation at Hibs. I never touted myself around as the best player at Hibs or anything like that. But a lot of people were saying ‘how can the best player sit on the bench’?

“Maybe if I had been 23 or 24 I would have been kicking doors in every day demanding that I wanted to play a bit more. But I am more experienced now and I never gave him any opportunity to say anything bad about me.

“I think that made it harder that I tried to do everything asked of me and I still didn’t get an opportunity. I don’t want to get into a war of words with him.

“I just want to move on and I now have a manager [Paul Hartley] who really believes in me and hopefully I can repay him.

“He has been brilliant with me as has every other manager I have worked with in my career, apart from the last six months under Terry Butcher which was a sickener for me but hopefully there will be good times ahead again. It is a good group of boys at Dundee and a great club – so far so good.”

Brilliant player. Big fan of him. Sad to see him away from the club to be honest. I expect other Hibs fans will be giving him pelters, even though he was the best player we had.

[BoltonHibee]

****ing disgrace the way butcher played or didn't play him. Everyone knows the score that's involved on the game. Butcher you ****

[Smartie]

I loved Thomson as a player first time round. He wasn't so good second time round but still should have been good enough to stroll it over the past couple of years.

It seems to be that this site is going to generally go down the "it was all Butcher's fault" route but I reckon there will have been bucket loads of blame on both sides.

Butcher and his approach, with hindsight, was absolutely 100% not what we needed at the time and I'm glad we're shot of him.

I'm also glad we're shot of so many of the players who let us down last year, and I simply refuse to believe that Thomson will have been an entirely innocent party. Look at the article and see how often he refers to "I" and "me" - only in the last sentence does he refer to the Dundee team, no mention of Hibs or the team in there.

I reckon he was a prima donna and along with several others who have left we're well shot of him, regardless how good a player he is.

Mowbray wasn't slow to move on Brebner and McManus when he took over, presumably because he didn't like their attitude. It'll be interesting to see if Stubbs nudges anyone else towards the exit over the next few weeks. I'm behind him all the way if he does.

[RIP Bestie]

I loved Thomson as a player first time round. He wasn't so good second time round but still should have been good enough to stroll it over the past couple of years.

It seems to be that this site is going to generally go down the "it was all Butcher's fault" route but I reckon there will have been bucket loads of blame on both sides.

Butcher and his approach, with hindsight, was absolutely 100% not what we needed at the time and I'm glad we're shot of him.

I'm also glad we're shot of so many of the players who let us down last year, and I simply refuse to believe that Thomson will have been an entirely innocent party. Look at the article and see how often he refers to "I" and "me" - only in the last sentence does he refer to the Dundee team, no mention of Hibs or the team in there.

I reckon he was a prima donna and along with several others who have left we're well shot of him, regardless how good a player he is.

Mowbray wasn't slow to move on Brebner and McManus when he took over, presumably because he didn't like their attitude. It'll be interesting to see if Stubbs nudges anyone else towards the exit over the next few weeks. I'm behind him all the way if he does.
It should, cos it was.

[lord bunberry]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

[ekhibee]

I loved Thomson as a player first time round. He wasn't so good second time round but still should have been good enough to stroll it over the past couple of years.

It seems to be that this site is going to generally go down the "it was all Butcher's fault" route but I reckon there will have been bucket loads of blame on both sides.

Butcher and his approach, with hindsight, was absolutely 100% not what we needed at the time and I'm glad we're shot of him.

I'm also glad we're shot of so many of the players who let us down last year, and I simply refuse to believe that Thomson will have been an entirely innocent party. Look at the article and see how often he refers to "I" and "me" - only in the last sentence does he refer to the Dundee team, no mention of Hibs or the team in there.

I reckon he was a prima donna and along with several others who have left we're well shot of him, regardless how good a player he is.

Mowbray wasn't slow to move on Brebner and McManus when he took over, presumably because he didn't like their attitude. It'll be interesting to see if Stubbs nudges anyone else towards the exit over the next few weeks. I'm behind him all the way if he does.
Totally agree with you mate, every word actually, but on this board you're not allowed to suggest that others were also at fault, the post right after yours proves it.

[Wilson]

It should, cos it was.

Seems to somehow leave under a cloud every time he leaves Hibs yet it is always everybody else's fault. Something doesn't feel quite right about Thomson - other than the fact he us greatly overrated. Glad he has gone.

[we are hibs]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

Thomson did play a part in our relegation but he also tried his hardest every time he stepped onto the park for hibs and he also tried to play the right way, even if it didn't come off for him all the time.

[RIP Bestie]

Totally agree with you mate, every word actually, but on this board you're not allowed to suggest that others were also at fault, the post right after yours proves it.
Tell me how it wasn't Butchers fault.

[RIP Bestie]

Seems to somehow leave under a cloud every time he leaves Hibs yet it is always everybody else's fault. Something doesn't feel quite right about Thomson - other than the fact he us greatly overrated. Glad he has gone.
Thomson wasn't the only player Butcher slaughtered publicly. That's why Butcher must shoulder the blame. This job was far too big for him. As for leaving under a cloud, I think that this time around, Thomson maintained a high level of dignity. He gas left Hibs twice, only once under a cloud in my opinion.

[weonlywon6-2]

Article in the scotsman about his time at hibs and butcher,decent read and tels us just what was thought was going on

Dunno how to copy the link

[HibeesLA]

Article in the scotsman about his time at hibs and butcher,decent read and tels us just what was thought was going on

Dunno how to copy the link

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/terry-butcher-difficult-to-please-kevin-thomson-1-3473409

[Hibrandenburg]

Thomson wasn't the only player Butcher slaughtered publicly. That's why Butcher must shoulder the blame. This job was far too big for him. As for leaving under a cloud, I think that this time around, Thomson maintained a high level of dignity. He gas left Hibs twice, only once under a cloud in my opinion.

That's awful, no wonder Butcher lost the dressing room when Thomson kept leaving gas clouds.

[hibsbollah]

His interviews always leave the impression that he's an arrogant bellend. 'I never said I was the best player' but at the same time throws in; 'a lot of people were saying how can the best player sit on the bench?' And no, Kevin, you dont 'always get your head down and keep working away', you quite often go crying to the papers with tales of being bullied by managers or your mum being skint.

A shadow of the player he was, but unfortunately he seems to be the same character.

[easty]

Tell me how it wasn't Butchers fault.

Cos when he did play he contributed the same as most of the rest of them. **** all.

Was Butcher being stubborn? Aye.

Did KT show he should be in the team when he did get a chance? Naw.

[Golden Bear]

I really wish this thread had never been started. We all know that the content of the posts will ultimately turn into yet another a pro Thommo/against Thommo debate.

We've entered a new era so let's forget the dark and dismal days of the last few seasons and hopefully look forward to a brighter future.

[lapsedhibee]

"He has been brilliant with me as has every other manager I have worked with in my career, apart from the last six months under Terry Butcher."

:faf::faf::faf:

[Spike Mandela]

A very poor team with a manager and coach who sideline some players and who ultimately couldn't inspire the team to improve. Recipe for disaster.

Thomson though, would be better to keep his mouth shut, nothing is ever his fault it would seem.

[blackpoolhibs]

Never wanted Thomson back, but i cant lay any of the blame for last seasons shambles at his door. He was immediately dropped as soon as butcher walked in the door, so the team could play his hoofball. Then he' played him periodically for the odd 10 minutes in games we'd already lost.

Or in one famous game at ST Mirren, put him straight in alongside OTJ who also had not played any kind of football in months, both hung out to dry by the master tactician.

In fact when he came on against Hearts at tynecastle, when we were a goal down. He was the best player on the park for the 15 or so minutes that clown gave him, but guess where he was the following week, yes back on the bench.

Never got a chance of a run of games under that clown, no i dont blame Thomson at all.

[Weir7]

Cos when he did play he contributed the same as most of the rest of them. **** all.

Was Butcher being stubborn? Aye.

Did KT show he should be in the team when he did get a chance? Naw.

Hahahah and you have the temerity to comment on my people skills and co

[Deansy]

"He has been brilliant with me as has every other manager I have worked with in my career, apart from the last six months under Terry Butcher."

:faf::faf::faf:

Yeah, I had a little s****** at that line, too !

[PeeJay]

Don't quite understand the reason for this post - the link to the article in the Scotsman hardly reveals anything at all about the Thompson/Butcher relationship, except it was "difficult" - so, what exactly was the problem? What happened between them, what does Thompson think about the Butcher's training, tactics, team talks, why was he dropped/not played, what should Butcher have done differently: who knows? Nothing in the article: nothing in the OP. What is the point of this type of thread or Thompson's article, they tell us absolutely nothing? Maybe Thompson doesn't actually have anything specific to level at Butcher?

[easty]

Hahahah and you have the temerity to comment on my people skills and co

Insightful and co

[DH1875]

So there's no news there then.

[Turkish Green]

A very poor team with a manager and coach who sideline some players and who ultimately couldn't inspire the team to improve. Recipe for disaster.

Thomson though, would be better to keep his mouth shut, nothing is ever his fault it would seem.

Butcher made a total mess-up in January by broadcasting to the players which ones were going and which were not. He then finds that those that were staying could not do the business and when he drafted in those with black spots was surprised to find that they would not do the business. Just poor poor man management skills.

As a long standing Hibbee, I would have expected a bit more fight from Thomson, but I suppose he had already resigned himself to leaving at the end of the season.

[DarrenSQH]

Wish we had kept him for this season. Should have been Captain but then Butcher is an Idiot.

[TrinityHibs]

Butchers gone. Thomsons gone. Neither performed for Hibs. Neither are a loss to Hibs. I'm glad to see the back of both of them.

[IWasThere2016]

Brilliant player. Big fan of him. Sad to see him away from the club to be honest. I expect other Hibs fans will be giving him pelters, even though he was the best player we had.


****ing disgrace the way butcher played or didn't play him. Everyone knows the score that's involved on the game. Butcher you ****

Summed up perfectly both.

He should still be at ER with the captain's armband IMHO.

[TowerHibs]

Don't quite understand the reason for this post - the link to the article in the Scotsman hardly reveals anything at all about the Thompson/Butcher relationship, except it was "difficult" - so, what exactly was the problem? What happened between them, what does Thompson think about the Butcher's training, tactics, team talks, why was he dropped/not played, what should Butcher have done differently: who knows? Nothing in the article: nothing in the OP. What is the point of this type of thread or Thompson's article, they tell us absolutely nothing? Maybe Thompson doesn't actually have anything specific to level at Butcher?

Dont read it or comment on it. High level of hypocrasy in your post here. Its a forum where people are talking about football.

Settle down PJ, no intentions of wasting your time. Happy to forward all posts/threads/newspaper articles to you for approval before putting on the board though chief.

[PeeJay]

Dont read it or comment on it. High level of hypocrasy in your post here. Its a forum where people are talking about football.

Settle down PJ, no intentions of wasting your time. Happy to forward all posts/threads/newspaper articles to you for approval before putting on the board though chief.

Hypocrisy?
Your post and the KT article have little to no information in them regarding Butcher, apart from the fact his name gets mentioned, that's my point. Think it's fair - even on a football forum - to comment on something suggesting there is news on a topic of interest to Hibs fans only to find out it is completely devoid of any news.

Don't worry about me wasting my time - I don't do it all the time, but when I do, I've found this is as good a place as any to waste it and enjoy it even ... :greengrin

[Stevie Reid]

Never wanted Thomson back, but i cant lay any of the blame for last seasons shambles at his door. He was immediately dropped as soon as butcher walked in the door, so the team could play his hoofball. Then he' played him periodically for the odd 10 minutes in games we'd already lost.

Or in one famous game at ST Mirren, put him straight in alongside OTJ who also had not played any kind of football in months, both hung out to dry by the master tactician.

In fact when he came on against Hearts at tynecastle, when we were a goal down. He was the best player on the park for the 15 or so minutes that clown gave him, but guess where he was the following week, yes back on the bench.

Never got a chance of a run of games under that clown, no i dont blame Thomson at all.

:agree:

He also drove us on superbly in the Partick 1-1 draw at ER, the only point we took in the bottom 6 - we lost our way after he went off injured. He was fit and ready to play in the 2nd leg of the play off, a game that was crying out for him, and yet Butcher chose to bump him. Disgraceful stuff.

When KT returned my only concern was whether he'd stay fit - the idea of him not being good enough for us was never in the equation. Unbelievably, he stayed fit for ages, but wasn't picked - then when we finally called upon his services, he got injured.

Yes he slowed things down a bit too much in Fenlon's ponderous side of this season, but that was mainly due to the lack of any creative/pacey outlets to give the ball to. If he truly wanted to stay to help us out of this division and our former manager was allowed to prevent that from happening, then it sums up the whole ridiculous episode perfectly.

[CraigHibee]

Seems to somehow leave under a cloud every time he leaves Hibs yet it is always everybody else's fault. Something doesn't feel quite right about Thomson - other than the fact he us greatly overrated. Glad he has gone.

not even a fraction of the gladness i feel that butcher is no longer here, thomson was a decent player, butcher turned a mediocre team into a shambolic team that in the end were scared of their own shadows.

[Hibbyradge]

Non-story.

[Thecat23]

Terry Butcher is the biggest fraud in football. Fooled me abut thankfully found out. I hope he never sets foot in ER again and as for MM I actually can't stand the man.

[SMAXXA]

Non-story.

:agree: This is a nothing to see here moment for me also, not like he's came out and slaughtered hibs or the previous management team. Let's move on wish him well and stop these threads, as someone says you can practically copy and paste what's been said on numerous KT threads! it's tiresome.

[jacomo]

:agree:

He also drove us on superbly in the Partick 1-1 draw at ER, the only point we took in the bottom 6 - we lost our way after he went off injured. He was fit and ready to play in the 2nd leg of the play off, a game that was crying out for him, and yet Butcher chose to bump him. Disgraceful stuff.


:agree:

2-0 from the first leg, controlled and ponderous would have been just fine. Instead he tinkers with a winning team from the 1st leg to bring Danny Haynes in - a striker who'd not been in the team and not done much of note when he had been involved.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

2-0 from the first leg, controlled and ponderous would have been just fine. Instead he tinkers with a winning team from the 1st leg to bring Danny Haynes in - a striker who'd not been in the team and not done much of note when he had been involved.

Made such an arse of it, he had to sub the sub after 60 minutes.

[Scottie]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

:agree: The love in for KT surprises me as he's been on gardening leave at Hibs for the last 18 months

[Stevie Reid]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

He played nowhere near as big a part as others. Only appeared 22 times and didn't feature at all between 21 December and 22 March.

[GlenrothesHibee]

Just my opinion but I thought he looked a class act every time I saw him last season. Dundee have a right good player.

[Speedway]

His interviews always leave the impression that he's an arrogant bellend. 'I never said I was the best player' but at the same time throws in; 'a lot of people were saying how can the best player sit on the bench?' And no, Kevin, you dont 'always get your head down and keep working away', you quite often go crying to the papers with tales of being bullied by managers or your mum being skint.

A shadow of the player he was, but unfortunately he seems to be the same character.

:agree:

[Big_Franck]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

This for me.

Posters week after week would claim he was one of our best players but when he played he showed nothing at all, bar a couple of games.

For me he isn't a loss, even more so after reading his comments in that interview which shows me he isn't the kind of character i'd want around the club.

[Stevie Reid]

His interviews always leave the impression that he's an arrogant bellend. 'I never said I was the best player' but at the same time throws in; 'a lot of people were saying how can the best player sit on the bench?' And no, Kevin, you dont 'always get your head down and keep working away', you quite often go crying to the papers with tales of being bullied by managers or your mum being skint.

A shadow of the player he was, but unfortunately he seems to be the same character.

He may well be, I don't know - I don't care how arrogant a player is as long as they care about playing for Hibs, which Thomson clearly did. And, arrogant or not, despite there clearly being no love lost between him and Butcher, he still came out with stories such as these, as he obviously had the best interests of the club at heart: -

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/thomson-butcher-is-ideal-man-to-lift-hibs-1-3198386

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hibs-kevin-thomson-rubbishes-talk-of-malpas-rift-1-3296067

If Butcher cared about Hibs as much as Thomson did, we may have survived last year. Besides, it hardly sounds like Butcher is Mr Humility does it?

[jacomo]

:agree:

You don't have to like Katie as a person to understand that he could have been of use last season. Not the player he was, but TB then brought both him and Taiwo in after telling both they'd played their last game for the club. Awful management.

[lord bunberry]

He played nowhere near as big a part as others. Only appeared 22 times and didn't feature at all between 21 December and 22 March.

We didn't win one game when he came back after the 22nd of March, if he was as good a player as people are making out then he would have had a much more positive impact on the team. Under Fenlon he played his part in all our shocking early results, I'm not saying it was all his fault but he's just as much to blame as the rest of them IMO. Good luck to the guy but I'm not bothered that he's left.

[lord bunberry]

You don't have to like Katie as a person to understand that he could have been of use last season. Not the player he was, but TB then brought both him and Taiwo in after telling both they'd played their last game for the club. Awful management.

You make it sound like he didn't play, he played plenty times and didn't make a difference.

[Stevie Reid]

We didn't win one game when he came back after the 22nd of March, if he was as good a player as people are making out then he would have had a much more positive impact on the team. Under Fenlon he played his part in all our shocking early results, I'm not saying it was all his fault but he's just as much to blame as the rest of them IMO. Good luck to the guy but I'm not bothered that he's left.

I think you've made an extremely simplistic argument, with respect. All but two of his his appearances after that date (and after not playing for 3 months) were from the bench - no one is making the point that he is so good that he would have won games single handedly for us, only that someone with his attributes, experience and desire to play for Hibs would most likely have helped us had he been utilised much earlier; as opposed to being told he is surplus to requirements, before being thrown back in when we were in a full blown crisis.

He appeared 22 times, starting 17 games. He's nowhere near as complicit as others.

[ekhibee]

Tell me how it wasn't Butchers fault.
I didn't say it wasn't. It was a shared responsibility. To say that the players don't have to share the responsibility is utter bollocks.

[Big_Franck]

You make it sound like he didn't play, he played plenty times and didn't make a difference.

Some fans argue that we were a better team with Thomson than we were without him. A quick look at his stats for last season from soccerbase and our results from the official site don't seem to back that up.

In the matches that Kevin Thomson played last season we won 3 of the 22 games. A win ratio of 13.6%.

We played 24 games without KT, winning 8 of those. A win ratio of 33%.

This obviously doesn't take into account things such as the opposition, or whether he started or came on as a sub, but I think it's interesting nonetheless.

[cmcd]

His interviews always leave the impression that he's an arrogant bellend. 'I never said I was the best player' but at the same time throws in; 'a lot of people were saying how can the best player sit on the bench?' And no, Kevin, you dont 'always get your head down and keep working away', you quite often go crying to the papers with tales of being bullied by managers or your mum being skint.

A shadow of the player he was, but unfortunately he seems to be the same character.
KT never at any time said his mum was skint He said he wanted to help her have a better life which is what any self respecting person in his position would want for his parents Also he did not go to the press they came to him

[Stevie Reid]

Some fans argue that we were a better team with Thomson than we were without him. A quick look at his stats for last season from soccerbase and our results from the official site don't seem to back that up.

In the matches that Kevin Thomson played last season we won 3 of the 22 games. A win ratio of 13.6%.

We played 24 games without KT, winning 8 of those. A win ratio of 33%.

This obviously doesn't take into account things such as the opposition, or whether he started or came on as a sub, but I think it's interesting nonetheless.

It's certainly not black and white, and we'll never know either way for sure. There was certainly a case for Butcher not playing Thomson when we were winning without him, but after Robertson got injured and our massive decline began, there was surely cause for him being brought back earlier. There was definitely no excuse at all for him being jettisoned completely, which then made bringing him back such a big call.

He has played at a very high level, including in a UEFA Cup final, and his experience would have been vital - and he showed in his fleeting appearances towards the end of the season that he had an appetite for the relegation battle. He was very good after he came on against Hearts at Tynie, and as I mentioned before, drove us on with a very good performace v Partick until he got injured.

All things considered I'm inclined to believe that we would have picked up the points required to stay up had he featured again earlier - or not got injured v Partick - but it's purely conjecture.

[lapsedhibee]

He has played at a very high level, including in a UEFA Cup final, and his experience would have been vital

This is often quoted, but I rarely understand why. Alen Orman has played in the Champions League. So what? IF Katie was crap for us last year, he was crap. His experience long ago at the the Huns is of almost no relevance to that.

[easty]

Also he did not go to the press they came to him

Dunno how true that is.

[gillythehibby]

I think the whole episode shows how badly wrong Butcher played this. He gambled big time on still being here and shipping out players he didn't rate. What he didn't bank on was Dempster. Thank god I say. I personally didn't want Butcher and Malpas at ER. They're style of football is not for me and if you think you can get the best out of players by shouting and bullying, then your out of yer depth. As for KT, you need a manager who can make him feel a bit special. He likes to be pampered somewhat. He may not be as good as he thinks he is or was, but an arm round him telling him he's Hib's captain blah blah, would have had him on-side. Same with Taiwio. One minute he's "my best midfielder" and the next he's oot the team !! I think Malpas has a major influence on Butcher and he's a banger ! Glad we got rid. Onwards and upwards. GBTH

[Stevie Reid]

This is often quoted, but I rarely understand why. Alen Orman has played in the Champions League. So what? IF Katie was crap for us last year, he was crap. His experience long ago at the the Huns is of almost no relevance to that.

You rarely understand why a player's past experience is quoted? Really?

The point that I was making was that someone who has such experience was unlikely to be phased by a relegation battle where you have five chances to win one game against (what were initially) the five teams below you in the league.

And he was never crap last season - most of his performances were indifferent, but as I said he'd certainly found his stride when he got injured against Partick.

[Cameron1875]

"fortunately for me the way I have always been in my career, I just kept my head down and working away."

LIAR. Absolute fud of a man, good riddance.

[J-C]

"fortunately for me the way I have always been in my career, I just kept my head down and working away."

LIAR. Absolute fud of a man, good riddance.

Is there any need :rolleyes::confused:

[Golden Bear]

True to life the content of this thread has hit a predictable low with the emphasis being on KT rather than the the weaknesses of TB's management style.

Is it not time to move on?

[lord bunberry]

True to life the content of this thread has hit a predictable low with the emphasis being on KT rather than the the weaknesses of TB's management style.

Is it not time to move on?
I don't see how this thread could have went any other way, Thomson said that people were saying he was our best player in that article and that's what's being discussed on this thread. I know some threads can descend into player bashing but this one is only debating the points made by Thomson himself.

[Carheenlea]

Terry Butcher is the biggest fraud in football. Fooled me abut thankfully found out. I hope he never sets foot in ER again and as for MM I actually can't stand the man.

Fooled a lot of us. Sadly his being found out has come at a catastrophic cost to us.
I remember travelling to the Friday night game against Motherwell and Chick Young revealing it was a done deal for Butcher coming to Hibs and all the pundits were raving about what a great appointment it was going to be. I bought it, and so did many fans that I spoke to that night who were getting excited at the news. The thread on here leading up to the announcement was largely of excitement - how foolish we were. We were simply conned, and Butcher won't work in football again.

[Dashing Bob S]

Fooled a lot of us. Sadly his being found out has come at a catastrophic cost to us.
I remember travelling to the Friday night game against Motherwell and Chick Young revealing it was a done deal for Butcher coming to Hibs and all the pundits were raving about what a great appointment it was going to be. I bought it, and so did many fans that I spoke to that night who were getting excited at the news. The thread on here leading up to the announcement was largely of excitement - how foolish we were. We were simply conned, and Butcher won't work in football again.

My initial reaction was that Butcher was rubbish, a drill sarge windbag who had lucked out at Inverness after being a serial failure everywhere else. Then I started to be swayed by the early results and comments of those around me, that he was what we needed, and that with MM and SM, we had found a dream team.

Then freefall.

I wish I had stuck to my guns.

[lapsedhibee]

You rarely understand why a player's past experience is quoted? Really?

No. I rarely understand why Katie's past experience is quoted.



The point that I was making was that someone who has such experience was unlikely to be phased by a relegation battle where you have five chances to win one game against (what were initially) the five teams below you in the league.


Yet on the single most important occasion at the very end of the season when his seasoned, experienced, played-at-the-highest-level, cool head was required, he messed up badly. His experience counted for absolutely nothing that day.



And he was never crap last season - most of his performances were indifferent, but as I said he'd certainly found his stride when he got injured against Partick.

Ok you're saying he was mostly indifferent. Hardly a ringing endorsement for someone with all that footballing nous, nor much of an argument for keeping him on. Butcher was a clown, but it's no disaster at all that Katie's gone.

[cmcd]

Dunno how true that is.
You do because i just told you

[lord bunberry]

My initial reaction was that Butcher was rubbish, a drill sarge windbag who had lucked out at Inverness after being a serial failure everywhere else. Then I started to be swayed by the early results and comments of those around me, that he was what we needed, and that with MM and SM, we had found a dream team.

Then freefall.

I wish I had stuck to my guns.

That's how it was with me. He is great at saying what the fans want to hear, he talked the talk but he couldn't walk the walk

[jacomo]

My initial reaction was that Butcher was rubbish, a drill sarge windbag who had lucked out at Inverness after being a serial failure everywhere else. Then I started to be swayed by the early results and comments of those around me, that he was what we needed, and that with MM and SM, we had found a dream team.

Then freefall.

I wish I had stuck to my guns.

Don't beat yourself up about it.

A lot of us (me included) fancied Butcher from the off. We wanted and got his two lieutenants too. But what do most fans know? We see matches and results and a managers public demeanor. We don't meet the people in question, or ask those who know them.

Hibs failed to do their background before appointing him. If they had, they'd have realised his have-a-go approach would bomb here.

[BigT-Hibeez]

I loved Thomson as a player first time round. He wasn't so good second time round but still should have been good enough to stroll it over the past couple of years.

It seems to be that this site is going to generally go down the "it was all Butcher's fault" route but I reckon there will have been bucket loads of blame on both sides.

Butcher and his approach, with hindsight, was absolutely 100% not what we needed at the time and I'm glad we're shot of him.

I'm also glad we're shot of so many of the players who let us down last year, and I simply refuse to believe that Thomson will have been an entirely innocent party. Look at the article and see how often he refers to "I" and "me" - only in the last sentence does he refer to the Dundee team, no mention of Hibs or the team in there.

I reckon he was a prima donna and along with several others who have left we're well shot of him, regardless how good a player he is.

Mowbray wasn't slow to move on Brebner and McManus when he took over, presumably because he didn't like their attitude. It'll be interesting to see if Stubbs nudges anyone else towards the exit over the next few weeks. I'm behind him all the way if he does.

Stubbs hasn't got a chance!! He's keeping Liam Craig, surely our worst ever captain!!! First signing is a right back who is at best, average!!! Poor

[lapsedhibee]

Stubbs hasn't got a chance!! He's keeping Liam Craig, surely our worst ever captain!!! First signing is a right back who is at best, average!!! Poor

How can Liam Craig have been our worst ever captain when Kevin Thomson was captain!!! Have you just moved to London from the East!! I ask because there are certain similarities between your posting style and another user's!! He was in Hong Kong!!

[FranckSuzy]

How can Liam Craig have been our worst ever captain when Kevin Thomson was captain!!! Have you just moved to London from the East!! I ask because there are certain similarities between your posting style and another user's!! He was in Hong Kong!!

:hmmm:

[Stevie Reid]

No. I rarely understand why Katie's past experience is quoted.

Ok, so if you understand why other player's pasts are relevant, why not his?



Yet on the single most important occasion at the very end of the season when his seasoned, experienced, played-at-the-highest-level, cool head was required, he messed up badly. His experience counted for absolutely nothing that day.

You referring to his missed penalty I take it? I would liked to have seen Thomson start the game, not come on (for another sub) during a match where we had shat it from the first minute and were under the cosh. We'll never know for sure but had Butcher utilised KT properly in the bottom 6 games, things may have been different. They certainly couldn't have been any worse. Butcher mishandled every player, just like he mishandled Thomson - not one player improved under him, every one of them to a man got worse.


Ok you're saying he was mostly indifferent. Hardly a ringing endorsement for someone with all that footballing nous, nor much of an argument for keeping him on. Butcher was a clown, but it's no disaster at all that Katie's gone.

I never said it was a disaster he's gone - I said if he wanted to stay and help us out of the division we're in and Butcher stopped that from happening, it's pretty ridiculous.

[silverhibee]

KT never at any time said his mum was skint He said he wanted to help her have a better life which is what any self respecting person in his position would want for his parents Also he did not go to the press they came to him


He could have refused to speak to them, and now that i think of it he was paid by the DR for his column in the sports pages of that paper.

[silverhibee]

I don't see how this thread could have went any other way, Thomson said that people were saying he was our best player in that article and that's what's being discussed on this thread. I know some threads can descend into player bashing but this one is only debating the points made by Thomson himself.

Was there not folk on here saying that Butcher had said to KT that he was the best player in the squad. :dunno:

[SMAXXA]

Was there not folk on here saying that Butcher had said to KT that he was the best player in the squad. :dunno:

:agree: Correct this was when he turned down the bid to take him on loan to Finland with Shefki Kuqis team

[Up The Bracket]

Thomson barely kicked a ball all last season under Fenlon or Butcher, he played his part in our relegation just like Nelson and Mcgivern.

Very much so, and our "best player" was at fault for the goal that took us to the penalties we lost, incredibly glad he's away

[jacomo]

Very much so, and our "best player" was at fault for the goal that took us to the penalties we lost, incredibly glad he's away

When are you coming back, Jorge?

Alan Stubbs is yet to sign a midfielder so I can only assume this is the reason why.

[JimBHibees]

Very much so, and our "best player" was at fault for the goal that took us to the penalties we lost, incredibly glad he's away

Thomson was at fault for the second goal v Accies ? Try as I might to erase that nightmare from my consciousness :greengrin however can think of 2 or 3 players much more culpable such as Nelson and OTJ.

[heretoday]

Butchers gone. Thomsons gone. Neither performed for Hibs. Neither are a loss to Hibs. I'm glad to see the back of both of them.

Hear Hear!

[lapsedhibee]

Ok, so if you understand why other player's pasts are relevant, why not his?



Perhaps not a fair comparison, but you could see fairly early on how bringing Sauzee to ER at that stage of his career (got to European Final blablabla) made sense. He stamped himself and his experience all over Hibs games, and imo would have done so whatever the level of his teammates. I don't think that ever happened, or ever looked likely to happen, with Katie. He was just older - don't think there was much if any evidence of him using all his experience to affect the outcome of Hibs matches. Always plenty of people on here quoting his experience as if the fact alone was bound to make a difference on the pitch for Hibs, but imo that difference just didn't occur.

[jdships]

My initial reaction was that Butcher was rubbish, a drill sarge windbag who had lucked out at Inverness after being a serial failure everywhere else. Then I started to be swayed by the early results and comments of those around me, that he was what we needed, and that with MM and SM, we had found a dream team.

Then freefall.

I wish I had stuck to my guns.


I was a " Jury's out" man on Butcher in the vote we had in the pub the night he was appointed.
It was interesting in as much there were 15 Hibbees in the boozer
9 said YES
2 said NO
4 said Jury's out .

Unfortunately like many before him he " talked the talk" but couldn't " walk the walk"

Wonder if we will ever know what the full extent of the financial loss is/will be due to relegation ?

:rolleyes::rolleyes: