PDA

View Full Version : takeover



Pages : [1] 2

cloudy
05-07-2014, 12:08 PM
Anyone heard about a takeover? I know it was talked about last month but thought it was all wishful thinking, until I was discussing hibs with a fellow golfer and his words were " I just wish this takeover would hurry up" he seemed shocked I had never heard of this, I had my doubts but now ive had the chance to think it over it would explain why we're shipping players out with no replacements coming in, the guy seems to think it'll happen in 2/3 wks and we're talking multi million pound investment.... as I say I have my doubts but could it be possible? anyone else heard anything about this

IanM
05-07-2014, 12:12 PM
Not heard a thing, I think quite a lot of fans are at the stage we'll just bother about on the pitch than off!

Your mate got anymore info?

Alfred E Newman
05-07-2014, 12:15 PM
Anyone heard about a takeover? I know it was talked about last month but thought it was all wishful thinking, until I was discussing hibs with a fellow golfer and his words were " I just wish this takeover would hurry up" he seemed shocked I had never heard of this, I had my doubts but now ive had the chance to think it over it would explain why we're shipping players out with no replacements coming in, the guy seems to think it'll happen in 2/3 wks and we're talking multi million pound investment.... as I say I have my doubts but could it be possible? anyone else heard anything about this

No.:yawn:

cloudy
05-07-2014, 12:16 PM
Im playing golf again with him this midweek I'll quiz him a little more then

Keith_M
05-07-2014, 12:22 PM
Do you have any names?

Diclonius
05-07-2014, 12:27 PM
Ultimately anticlimactic 10 pager. Calling it now.

Keith_M
05-07-2014, 12:28 PM
Ultimately anticlimactic 10 pager. Calling it now.


:agree:

cloudy
05-07-2014, 12:28 PM
Not 100% on the name mentioned I want to say Edgar was the name but as I say I didnt think much of it until I thought about it later

Keith_M
05-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Not 100% on the name mentioned I want to say Edgar was the name but as I say I didnt think much of it until I thought about it later


Edgar Davids to take over Hibs!


:thumbsup:

cloudy
05-07-2014, 12:40 PM
Haha sorry think that was his surname, admin feel free to delete this thread if you think ive been set up or its an old story that has been proven to be false

Hibbyradge
05-07-2014, 12:40 PM
Edgar Davids to take over Hibs!


:thumbsup:

More chance of it being Edgar Allan Poe. :agree:

Michael
05-07-2014, 12:47 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if someone does take control of Hibs, but it won't be anyone with money. Even Rangers can't get someone with money.

hibee_nation
05-07-2014, 01:56 PM
Haha sorry think that was his surname, admin feel free to delete this thread if you think ive been set up or its an old story that has been proven to be false

Delete it yourself if you want you started it, i would if i was you, loaday pash.

hibs4thecup1988
05-07-2014, 04:09 PM
Delete it yourself if you want you started it, i would if i was you, loaday pash.

It is!? I was told at the Hamilton game that sir Tom farmer was looking to sell up as he had ill health. Was told also the buyer owned a big Edinburgh company and that he would put 2 million in for players. So there we go.

HibbySpurs
05-07-2014, 04:26 PM
Believe this sort of chat only when something concrete comes out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Phil D. Rolls
05-07-2014, 04:28 PM
Anyone heard about a takeover? I know it was talked about last month but thought it was all wishful thinking, until I was discussing hibs with a fellow golfer and his words were " I just wish this takeover would hurry up" he seemed shocked I had never heard of this, I had my doubts but now ive had the chance to think it over it would explain why we're shipping players out with no replacements coming in, the guy seems to think it'll happen in 2/3 wks and we're talking multi million pound investment.... as I say I have my doubts but could it be possible? anyone else heard anything about this

Not heard a thing. Did he mention World Cup stars by any chance?

hfc rd
05-07-2014, 04:31 PM
When's Roman Abramovich coming to Hibs?

Hermit Crab
05-07-2014, 04:35 PM
Complete rubbish.

Deansy
05-07-2014, 04:40 PM
Rumour I heard was some guys involved with some mega-money 'Video-games' outfit in Scotland/Leith ??.

Turkish Green
05-07-2014, 04:42 PM
Not 100% on the name mentioned I want to say Edgar was the name but as I say I didnt think much of it until I thought about it later
The only businessman in Edinburgh with a first name of Edgar is Edgar Stewart.

HIBERNIAN-0762
05-07-2014, 04:43 PM
Complete rubbish.

Really?

I hope it's true.

Thecat23
05-07-2014, 04:47 PM
Guys this is true, it's not a take over though they want to clear the debt and own the ground I'm told. It's Edgar Ramsay who's leading it. He's met Petrie a few times and someone else on here also knows about it.

I've known for a few weeks but didn't want to post as it was a shambles the last time.

CropleyWasGod
05-07-2014, 04:47 PM
Rumour I heard was some guys involved with some mega-money 'Video-games' outfit in Scotland/Leith ??.

Nah. He just spent all his cash on buying Stockbridge Church :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
05-07-2014, 04:50 PM
The only businessman in Edinburgh with a first name of Edgar is Edgar Stewart.

Not so :cb

bingo70
05-07-2014, 04:50 PM
Guys this is true, it's not a take over though they want to clear the debt and own the ground I'm told. It's Edgar Ramsay who's leading it. He's met Petrie a few times and someone else on here also knows about it.

I've known for a few weeks but didn't want to post as it was a shambles the last time.

I'd have thought if it was just an investment it would have started with his company sponsoring us?

brog
05-07-2014, 04:52 PM
Why do people on here seem to get their kicks by putting posters down? The OP said from the start that the story/rumour was unsubstantiated but thought he would share something he had heard with us. That's why we have a forum, to share things. At no stage was he claiming to be ITK, nor was he saying "I'm hearing"! For his helpfulness & openness he gets abuse. FWIW I think the story, as told, is unlikely, though an eventual sale could happen, but I thank the OP for taking the time to share his information.

Fergus52
05-07-2014, 04:52 PM
Charlie and Craig Reid were approached to see if they'd be willing to put money in for it.

Disc O'Dave
05-07-2014, 04:54 PM
Guys this is true, it's not a take over though they want to clear the debt and own the ground I'm told. It's Edgar Ramsay who's leading it. He's met Petrie a few times and someone else on here also knows about it.

I've known for a few weeks but didn't want to post as it was a shambles the last time.

Hmm.......Eddie Ramsey owning Powderhall worked out splendidly......

bingo70
05-07-2014, 04:58 PM
Hmm.......Eddie Ramsey owning Powderhall worked out splendidly......

Probably did for him!

(Should point out I've no knowledge of what yer on about but I'm assuming he bumped the monarchs to make money on the housing that was built?)

Thecat23
05-07-2014, 05:05 PM
Hmm.......Eddie Ramsey owning Powderhall worked out splendidly......

My thoughts as well.

ScottB
05-07-2014, 05:09 PM
I can't think of a single example of a football ground and a football club having different ownership ever leading to anything positive...

GGTTH07
05-07-2014, 05:10 PM
Heard this aswell from a very good 'source'.

Hibs07p
05-07-2014, 05:11 PM
Is this the same guy?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-raid-cheque-cashing-shop-3222573

bingo70
05-07-2014, 05:11 PM
I can't think of a single example of a football ground and a football club having different ownership ever leading to anything positive...

Is that what's being proposed here?

ScottB
05-07-2014, 05:12 PM
Is that what's being proposed here?

Isn't that what TheCat23 posted? Clear the debt and own the ground, not takeover the club?

Keith_M
05-07-2014, 05:13 PM
Guys this is true, it's not a take over though they want to clear the debt and own the ground I'm told. It's Edgar Ramsay who's leading it. He's met Petrie a few times and someone else on here also knows about it.

I've known for a few weeks but didn't want to post as it was a shambles the last time.


Genuine question here so please take it the right way....


Is the guy who posted on here as GlobalHibby involved in this? He said he was going to work with other people behind the scenes.

BT58
05-07-2014, 05:15 PM
Damn....bumped into STF down at Rosslyn chapel today,,had i got a better internet signal and known about this i would have asked him all about it,, but all i could do was stare at a marvellous auld relic (the chapel)
Lol

bingo70
05-07-2014, 05:18 PM
Isn't that what TheCat23 posted? Clear the debt and own the ground, not takeover the club?

Sorry, miss read the cats post earlier.

Could he be buying the commercial elements to the stadium? To get a busy match day bar, a restaurant and office space near the city centre it might not be a bad deal for all parties.

Thecat23
05-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Genuine question here so please take it the right way....


Is the guy who posted on here as GlobalHibby involved in this? He said he was going to work with other people behind the scenes.

Not sure mate. Will find out though!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SunshineOnLeith
05-07-2014, 05:36 PM
Has Hibernian Retro/Global Hibee got another account yet? I imagine we'll have to wait until he re-registers before another 'takeover bid' appears, sadly.

weonlywon6-2
05-07-2014, 05:36 PM
Is this the same guy?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-raid-cheque-cashing-shop-3222573

Oh my goodness,makes Romanov look like a guardian angel,eh no thanks

Keith_M
05-07-2014, 05:43 PM
Not sure mate. Will find out though!



Cheers.

Hibs07p
05-07-2014, 05:49 PM
Oh my goodness,makes Romanov look like a guardian angel,eh no thanks

My thoughts exactly.

Ramsay, from Ormiston, East Lothian, has a trail of 23 dissolved companies spanning four decades.

He runs ClearACheque with his son Stuart Ramsay, 39, and his daughter Louise Hislop, 44, who jointly own the business. The shop’s website says it cashes thousands of cheques each week, exchanges foreign currency and has agents across the UK.

Ramsay once owned Edinburgh’s Powderhall and Glasgow’s Ashfield greyhound stadiums and tried to buy Livingston FC.

Hibrandenburg
05-07-2014, 05:56 PM
Anyone heard about a takeover? I know it was talked about last month but thought it was all wishful thinking, until I was discussing hibs with a fellow golfer and his words were " I just wish this takeover would hurry up" he seemed shocked I had never heard of this, I had my doubts but now ive had the chance to think it over it would explain why we're shipping players out with no replacements coming in, the guy seems to think it'll happen in 2/3 wks and we're talking multi million pound investment.... as I say I have my doubts but could it be possible? anyone else heard anything about this

Why didn't you ask him?

hibIBZ
05-07-2014, 05:59 PM
I have heard something along these lines and that a former chairman and an American based businessman is involved

Dave-O
05-07-2014, 06:02 PM
I know Eddie and as much as I would like a new owner, there's no way I'd want him owning our ground, nice enough guy but it's all about the money for him, STF would be risking every good thing he's done for us since taking over if he sells to Eddie. :tsk tsk:

HIBERNIAN-0762
05-07-2014, 06:04 PM
Is this the same guy?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-raid-cheque-cashing-shop-3222573

I know him from way back :wink:

Proper crook :greengrin

Sergey
05-07-2014, 06:05 PM
My thoughts exactly.

Ramsay, from Ormiston, East Lothian, has a trail of 23 dissolved companies spanning four decades.

He runs ClearACheque with his son Stuart Ramsay, 39, and his daughter Louise Hislop, 44, who jointly own the business. The shop’s website says it cashes thousands of cheques each week, exchanges foreign currency and has agents across the UK.

Ramsay once owned Edinburgh’s Powderhall and Glasgow’s Ashfield greyhound stadiums and tried to buy Livingston FC.

Eddie Ramsay - someone is on the wind-up as the guy doesn't have a pot to piss in.

I've known him for over 40 years when he owned the Meadowbank Snooker hall and he lost them in gambling debts to Pilmar Smith at Powderhall. I bumped into someone else who knows him who said he recently seen him working behind the bar at Wimbledon dog track.

For all Petrie's faults, there's absolutely no way he would even discuss business with Ramsay.

As I said, someone is at it with this rumour.

emerald green
05-07-2014, 06:46 PM
Anyone heard about a takeover? I know it was talked about last month but thought it was all wishful thinking, until I was discussing hibs with a fellow golfer and his words were " I just wish this takeover would hurry up" he seemed shocked I had never heard of this, I had my doubts but now ive had the chance to think it over it would explain why we're shipping players out with no replacements coming in, the guy seems to think it'll happen in 2/3 wks and we're talking multi million pound investment.... as I say I have my doubts but could it be possible? anyone else heard anything about this

Are you sure the "fellow golfer" wasn't just winding you up? Do you know what team he supports?

"Multi million pound investment". Seriously? Seems to good to be true, and if it seems too good to be true it usually is.

smurf
05-07-2014, 07:21 PM
I don't think it's any secret that there is more than one possible alternative ownership?

cloudy
05-07-2014, 07:28 PM
Why didn't you ask him?

Ask him what?

Turkish Green
05-07-2014, 11:48 PM
Not so :cb

Edgar Ramsay is no businessman. Crook maybe but no businessman.

s2hart
06-07-2014, 12:15 AM
Haha this cracked me up, Eddie Ramsay!! I like the guy, I've worked with him in the past, known him for years the guy is a dreamer though, I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club. He would have some money but nowhere near anything that would make a difference.

The Falcon
06-07-2014, 08:24 AM
Eddie Ramsay - someone is on the wind-up as the guy doesn't have a pot to piss in.

I've known him for over 40 years when he owned the Meadowbank Snooker hall and he lost them in gambling debts to Pilmar Smith at Powderhall. I bumped into someone else who knows him who said he recently seen him working behind the bar at Wimbledon dog track.

For all Petrie's faults, there's absolutely no way he would even discuss business with Ramsay.

As I said, someone is at it with this rumour.

That he is friends with Paul Ferris, let alone thinks he's a "good guy", says all I need to know about the man.

Lucius Apuleius
06-07-2014, 08:29 AM
Edgar Ramsay is no businessman. Crook maybe but no businessman.

Not savvy about law but think it is pretty risky to call someone a crook publicly.

The Falcon
06-07-2014, 08:32 AM
Not savvy about law but think it is pretty risky to call someone a crook publicly.

I suspect Ferris will be in charge of complaints.

down-the-slope
06-07-2014, 08:42 AM
Edgar Ramsay holds 7 appointments at 6 active companies, has resigned from 10 companies and held 23 appointments at 17 dissolved companies. Edgar began their first appointment at the age of 41 and their longest current appointment spans 16 years and 4 months at CLEARACHEQUE LIMITED.

The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Edgar holds a current appointment equals £80,360, with a combined assets value of £1,351,735 and liabilities of £1,230,361. Roles associated with Edgar Ramsay within the recorded businesses include: Director, Company Secretary



If this is him? he changes companies more often than some on here do their undies:rolleyes:

Beefster
06-07-2014, 08:49 AM
I'd trust Farmer and Rodders to only get involved with reputable people who wouldn't harm Hibs.

down-the-slope
06-07-2014, 08:53 AM
I'd trust Farmer and Rodders to only get involved with reputable people who wouldn't harm Hibs.

:agree:......don't think this 'character' fits the bill

Article from 3 months ago....

A CHEQUE cashing shop run by an ex-bookie pal of gangster Paul Ferris was raided over an alleged £350million scam.
Fraud squad detectives seized documents from ClearACheque in Edinburgh’s Tollcross area, which is run by Eddie Ramsay, 66.
Ramsay said the raid was nothing to do with him and claimed it was about deals being lined up by former business partner Michael McLetchie, 57.
It’s claimed that McLetchie told investors he is involved in a deal and is on the brink of securing £350million held in Dubai.
Ramsay and McLetchie, who was once convicted but later cleared of a £12million fraud, were personal guests of Ferris, 50, at last year’s Glasgow premiere of his seedy movie The Wee Man.
Ramsay said: “The police did a raid, thinking the £350million was there but there’s not £350million. McLetchie got everyone convinced that this money came from Dubai. He talks a good game.
“Officers came to the shop and took documents away. They never told us what it was about.
“We’ve never been charged, we’ve done nothing wrong.”
Ramsay, from Ormiston, East Lothian, has a trail of 23 dissolved companies spanning four decades.
He runs ClearACheque with his son Stuart Ramsay, 39, and his daughter Louise Hislop, 44, who jointly own the business. The shop’s website says it cashes thousands of cheques each week, exchanges foreign currency and has agents across the UK.
Ramsay once owned Edinburgh’s Powderhall and Glasgow’s Ashfield greyhound stadiums and tried to buy Livingston FC.
He has also been a director of three companies of which McLetchie also held directorships.
McLetchie, originally from Glasgow, was once convicted of a £12million film scam but later won his appeal.
Ramsay said his only connection with Ferris is through friendship. He added: “Paul Ferris is not involved – he’s a good guy.”
Police have also spoken with former ClearACheque director John Auchie, 49, who resigned from the firm seven days before the raid.
Auchie, from Livingston, claimed he is owed money by Ramsay and reported him to police over alleged abusive phone calls.
Police Scotland said: “We carried out a search of a business premises in Home Street as part of an ongoing financial investigation.”
McLetchie did not respond to our calls.

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 09:02 AM
I'd trust Farmer and Rodders to only get involved with reputable people who wouldn't harm Hibs.

Unless people were to make life so intolerable at Hibs, that they decide to get out, and sod the consequences. That's why people have to be careful how they protest.



:agree:......don't think this 'character' fits the bill

Article from 3 months ago....

A CHEQUE cashing shop run by an ex-bookie pal of gangster Paul Ferris was raided over an alleged £350million scam.
Fraud squad detectives seized documents from ClearACheque in Edinburgh’s Tollcross area, which is run by Eddie Ramsay, 66.
Ramsay said the raid was nothing to do with him and claimed it was about deals being lined up by former business partner Michael McLetchie, 57.
It’s claimed that McLetchie told investors he is involved in a deal and is on the brink of securing £350million held in Dubai.
Ramsay and McLetchie, who was once convicted but later cleared of a £12million fraud, were personal guests of Ferris, 50, at last year’s Glasgow premiere of his seedy movie The Wee Man.
Ramsay said: “The police did a raid, thinking the £350million was there but there’s not £350million. McLetchie got everyone convinced that this money came from Dubai. He talks a good game.
“Officers came to the shop and took documents away. They never told us what it was about.
“We’ve never been charged, we’ve done nothing wrong.”
Ramsay, from Ormiston, East Lothian, has a trail of 23 dissolved companies spanning four decades.
He runs ClearACheque with his son Stuart Ramsay, 39, and his daughter Louise Hislop, 44, who jointly own the business. The shop’s website says it cashes thousands of cheques each week, exchanges foreign currency and has agents across the UK.
Ramsay once owned Edinburgh’s Powderhall and Glasgow’s Ashfield greyhound stadiums and tried to buy Livingston FC.
He has also been a director of three companies of which McLetchie also held directorships.
McLetchie, originally from Glasgow, was once convicted of a £12million film scam but later won his appeal.
Ramsay said his only connection with Ferris is through friendship. He added: “Paul Ferris is not involved – he’s a good guy.”
Police have also spoken with former ClearACheque director John Auchie, 49, who resigned from the firm seven days before the raid.
Auchie, from Livingston, claimed he is owed money by Ramsay and reported him to police over alleged abusive phone calls.
Police Scotland said: “We carried out a search of a business premises in Home Street as part of an ongoing financial investigation.”
McLetchie did not respond to our calls.

It doesn't prove he's a crook, but at least it shows he knows crooks. Calling Ramsay a crook would require him to have been convicted of something. This clearly doesn't mention any charges or convictions, so we can't call him a crook.

I think it's fair to call him a Face though.

down-the-slope
06-07-2014, 09:09 AM
Unless people were to make life so intolerable at Hibs, that they decide to get out, and sod the consequences. That's why people have to be careful how they protest.




It doesn't prove he's a crook, but at least it shows he knows crooks. Calling Ramsay a crook would require him to have been convicted of something. This clearly doesn't mention any charges or convictions, so we can't call him a crook.

I think it's fair to call him a Face though.


I never mentioned the C word...I was suggesting that his 'business credentials' were not those of a potential safe custodian of our club that our current custodians would see as someone to do business with

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 09:11 AM
This is not even under starters orders, i want a new owner but not one like this.

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 09:11 AM
I never mentioned the C word...I was suggesting that his 'business credentials' were not those of a potential safe custodian of our club that our current custodians would see as someone to do business with

I don't like the look of him either, and crook or not, he doesn't seem like the sort of guy to be running Hibs. He makes Kano look like Richard Branson.

smurf
06-07-2014, 09:14 AM
I don't like the look of him either, and crook or not, he doesn't seem like the sort of guy to be running Hibs. He makes Kano look like Richard Branson.

Why the Paul Kane dig?

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 09:22 AM
Why the Paul Kane dig?

Because I don't want him to run Hibs either. Not a dig, merely a comparison. Why you bothered?

BigT-Hibeez
06-07-2014, 09:28 AM
Im playing golf again with him this midweek I'll quiz him a little more then

You playing with Brucie Forsyth and Bernard manning?? Jimmy Saville couldn't make it cos he's brown bread? Jimmy Turbuck is on standby

smurf
06-07-2014, 10:01 AM
Because I don't want him to run Hibs either. Not a dig, merely a comparison. Why you bothered?

Paul Kane is like most of us 100% a Hibby through and through. Recently he's given up a lot of time to pull a lot of other people together to investigate all possibilities to make us a better and more successful football club. I'm bothered because the caricature that many like to present of the man is no more than pathetic snobbery.

Greenworld
06-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Paul Kane is like most of us 100% a Hibby through and through. Recently he's given up a lot of time to pull a lot of other people together to investigate all possibilities to make us a better and more successful football club. I'm bothered because the caricature that many like to present of the man is no more than pathetic snobbery.
what is happening on that front paul and co seem to have disappeared

smurf
06-07-2014, 10:18 AM
what is happening on that front paul and co seem to have disappeared

I think hard and diligent work is taking place. Sir Tom has requested confidentiality?

DarlingtonHibee
06-07-2014, 10:27 AM
I think hard and diligent work is taking place. Sir Tom has requested confidentiality?

Can you share with us who is doing the hard and diligent work - I'm assuming someone who is ready to put £10m in the club as a minimum.

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 10:47 AM
Can you share with us who is doing the hard and diligent work - I'm assuming someone who is ready to put £10m in the club as a minimum.

Why would £10m minimum be needed to take over the club? :confused:

Greenworld
06-07-2014, 10:49 AM
I think hard and diligent work is taking place. Sir Tom has requested confidentiality?
Not being cheeky but do you know that for a fact

Greenworld
06-07-2014, 10:52 AM
Why would £10m minimum be needed to take over the club? :confused:
What value do you place on hibs

NAE NOOKIE
06-07-2014, 11:04 AM
Unless people were to make life so intolerable at Hibs, that they decide to get out, and sod the consequences. That's why people have to be careful how they protest.

Not sure why you feel the need for that comment FR. Its not unusual for shady characters to crawl out of the woodwork at times like this. For all that many feel a new owner is needed none of us want to see the club owned by a crook. If you are suggesting that STF would sell up to someone with anything less than good intentions out of spite at the protest, which as far as I can see has been pretty dignified up to this point, then it doesn't say a lot for him. I highly doubt he would do such a thing.

Whatever the case ......... anybody who does come forward with a plan to own the stadium but not the club should be punted instantly.

oldbutdim
06-07-2014, 11:09 AM
There are at least two serious bids being worked on.
Whether either will succeed is a different matter.

Thecat23
06-07-2014, 11:13 AM
Again guys, what I was told was this wasn't a takeover. No idea how much of it Edgar is investing as it's part of a group. It was just to clear the debt and to own the ground.

As another has said it's not the only group interested in this.

Edit.. I personally don't know Edgar in case there is any confusion.

DarlingtonHibee
06-07-2014, 11:16 AM
Why would £10m minimum be needed to take over the club? :confused:

Rough estimate of assets via debt ?

DarlingtonHibee
06-07-2014, 11:17 AM
there are at least two serious bids being worked on.
Whether either will succeed is a different matter.

lol

Jack Hackett
06-07-2014, 11:18 AM
Why do people on here seem to get their kicks by putting posters down? The OP said from the start that the story/rumour was unsubstantiated but thought he would share something he had heard with us. That's why we have a forum, to share things. At no stage was he claiming to be ITK, nor was he saying "I'm hearing"! For his helpfulness & openness he gets abuse. FWIW I think the story, as told, is unlikely, though an eventual sale could happen, but I thank the OP for taking the time to share his information.

:top marks

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 11:24 AM
What value do you place on hibs

I have no idea, that is why i asked the question?

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 11:25 AM
Rough estimate of assets via debt ?

Is £10m what STF wants to sell, or would he walk away for nothing?

DarlingtonHibee
06-07-2014, 11:33 AM
Is £10m what STF wants to sell, or would he walk away for nothing?
He would walk away for a lot less- his priority is the next owner and long term safety of Hibernian FC.

Where is stage 2 /3 of Kanos/ Pia / Reilly offer - you kidnapped them in Blackpool :thumbsup:

oneone73
06-07-2014, 11:37 AM
Paul Kane is like most of us 100% a Hibby through and through. Recently he's given up a lot of time to pull a lot of other people together to investigate all possibilities to make us a better and more successful football club. I'm bothered because the caricature that many like to present of the man is no more than pathetic snobbery.

This

Turkish Green
06-07-2014, 11:44 AM
There are at least two serious bids being worked on.
Whether either will succeed is a different matter.
Then there are the spivs, like Massone, who are in it for what they can make. The stadium footprint is probably worth more for development than as a sports stadium. Thankfully STF is not in a position where he must sell ASAP.

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 12:04 PM
Paul Kane is like most of us 100% a Hibby through and through. Recently he's given up a lot of time to pull a lot of other people together to investigate all possibilities to make us a better and more successful football club. I'm bothered because the caricature that many like to present of the man is no more than pathetic snobbery.

The worst kind of snobbery, is inverted snobbery IMO.

I don't think he's done a good job of convincing people he has the experience to take on the job. Nothing against him, but a lot of his supporters say things like, "he's a good Hibby" as if tats all that's needed.

I hate all this " give it a right good go" attitude. How would you feel about someone with no medial training, taking out your gall bladder? Chances are you'd look for someone that could prove they know what they are doing.

Maybe Kano, has more credentials than Ramsay, but its not saying much. It just emphasises how naff Ramsay would be, that he isn't even as good as Kano.

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 12:05 PM
He would walk away for a lot less- his priority is the next owner and long term safety of Hibernian FC.

Where is stage 2 /3 of Kanos/ Pia / Reilly offer - you kidnapped them in Blackpool :thumbsup:

His strategy for the long term safety of the club has hardly been great, and the negotiations from the Kane consortium was asked by STF to be kept between those involved for the meantime.

Unless you'd prefer STF's wishes to be ignored, and i find that unlikely, i'd say thats whats happening with it at the moment.

NORTHERNHIBBY
06-07-2014, 12:06 PM
Who is Edgar? An anagram of Radge?

Turkish Green
06-07-2014, 12:17 PM
Paul Kane is like most of us 100% a Hibby through and through. Recently he's given up a lot of time to pull a lot of other people together to investigate all possibilities to make us a better and more successful football club. I'm bothered because the caricature that many like to present of the man is no more than pathetic snobbery.

Kano is being treated as an object of ridicule by a section of Hibs' supporters similar to how a section of the yams treat Gary Mackay mainly due to them not being eloquent when they speak. Both are die-in-the-wool supporters of their respective club and both have put their own time and effort into "saving" their club.

Kano has my support.

Eyrie
06-07-2014, 12:26 PM
Kano is being treated as an object of ridicule by a section of Hibs' supporters similar to how a section of the yams treat Gary Mackay mainly due to them not being eloquent when they speak. Both are die-in-the-wool supporters of their respective club and both have put their own time and effort into "saving" their club.

Kano has my support.

I don't think Kane's love of the club and willingness to help us is in question. The concern expressed is whether he has the right credentials and plans in place to take us forward.

And a "lack of eloquence" can be a hindrance when speaking publicly because it makes it harder to communicate your message.

Smartie
06-07-2014, 12:35 PM
The worst kind of snobbery, is inverted snobbery IMO.

I don't think he's done a good job of convincing people he has the experience to take on the job. Nothing against him, but a lot of his supporters say things like, "he's a good Hibby" as if tats all that's needed.

I hate all this " give it a right good go" attitude. How would you feel about someone with no medial training, taking out your gall bladder? Chances are you'd look for someone that could prove they know what they are doing.

Maybe Kano, has more credentials than Ramsay, but its not saying much. It just emphasises how naff Ramsay would be, that he isn't even as good as Kano.

I think though, when we're entertaining the notion of somebody coming in and owning our football club we always have to question their motives. Who is going to want to get involved with us and why? Who is going to make money at Hibs, without it being massively at the fans' expense and to the detriment of the club?

At least with Kano he has an emotional interest in the club's wellbeing (as a fan) and a business one too (Hibs succeeding and getting bigger crowds will only ever benefit his pub).

Look at the charlatans that have pitched up at Livingston, Dundee etc over the years - at least having Kano as part of it will filter out some of the dodgier characters.

I also think he's a far smarter businessman than many people give him credit for. His style is a bit unique to say the least, but he's done well out of his football career and beyond. He's also well connected so will know people who will be able to potential make up for his own shortcomings.

My only problem with Kano here is that is is a bit of a personal crusade against Petrie without a great deal of though to what happens if he goes. But I don't doubt that there's a lot happening behind the scenes at the moment and when we need to know something then we will.

SunshineOnLeith
06-07-2014, 12:43 PM
Why the Paul Kane dig?

Unless you feel that Paul Kane is on the same level as Richard Branson when it comes to business nous, I really don't think the post you quoted constitutes a 'dig'.

The_Horde
06-07-2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think Kane's love of the club and willingness to help us is in question. The concern expressed is whether he has the right credentials and plans in place to take us forward.

And a "lack of eloquence" can be a hindrance when speaking publicly because it makes it harder to communicate your message.

The thing is though. We're talkin about a football team here.

Football is a working class sport in Scotland. Kano is a working class man who speaks working class lingo. In other words the fans he's speaking to understand him perfectly. He's a hibs supporter and ex football player not a bloody MP.

He doesn't have to talk the Petrie political jargon because he doesn't have to. In fact I bet more people understand him than they do Rod.

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 01:19 PM
;4088715']The thing is though. We're talkin about a football team here.

Football is a working class sport in Scotland. Kano is a working class man who speaks working class lingo. In other words the fans he's speaking to understand him perfectly. He's a hibs supporter and ex football player not a bloody MP.

He doesn't have to talk the Petrie political jargon because he doesn't have to. In fact I bet more people understand him than they do Rod.

:agree: And the way some people talk, you'd think Hibs were some sort of multi million world brand, we are a tin pot club in a tin pot league with a turnover of around £7m. There are countless folk in this country who run similar and much bigger companies than us, and some even speak with a dodgy leith accent.

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 01:29 PM
:agree: And the way some people talk, you'd think Hibs were some sort of multi million world brand, we are a tin pot club in a tin pot league with a turnover of around £7m. There are countless folk in this country who run similar and much bigger companies than us, and some even speak with a dodgy leith accent.

I never criticised Kane's accent. I criticised the fact he hasn't convinced me he's bright enough to run Hibs.

blackpoolhibs
06-07-2014, 01:37 PM
I never criticised Kane's accent. I criticised the fact he hasn't convinced me he's bright enough to run Hibs.

I never said you did FH, and he's not done anything to convince me either. STF has asked for confidentiality on this for the moment, and thats how it will be i'd imagine. I mean if Kane was to come out and ignore what was requested, that would also be wrong.

Its a wait and see scenario, and the sly digs are a bit stupid in my opinion.

Smartie
06-07-2014, 01:39 PM
I never criticised Kane's accent. I criticised the fact he hasn't convinced me he's bright enough to run Hibs.

Has he ever said that he wanted to?

As far as I'm aware, all he has so far stated is that he knows who he doesn't want to run Hibs, and many of us agree with him.

He may or may not be part of other plans going forward, as I'm sure will become clear over time, but at this point I don't think he has.

RIP
06-07-2014, 01:54 PM
Some personal reflections - posted this on the Pertie thread on the Bounce last week

Winds of change
In my view Rod Petrie stepped back from executive management for 2 reasons:-
An acknowledgement that he was trying to do 2 jobs.


Chairman - where some say he did a reasonable job (maybe in his eyes - not in mine)
A CEO where it is patently obvious that he failed miserably


To work with Tom Farmer to manage their exit from the current ownership model
Changes set in motion in 2013 I've heard from a number of sources that Sir Tom and Rod have been actively working on the ownership question over the winter.
WT activists had been lobbying fiercely for the headhunting of a CEO (specifically LD) from the summer of 2013 although the approach from Rod only came in February.
One of our directors had carried out a strategic review of the academy last season and a lot of the the current changes would have been approved by the Board late last year, with LD brought in to resource and implement themCommunity Ownership
STF and RP will have been watching the Hearts model with interest and both RP and LD will have had access to case studies from Supporters Direct. I predict this discussion will grow over forthcoming months

Paul Kane Consortium
Paul has a strong team of experienced businesspeople working on the two propositions put before STF and RP. In media reports Paul has implied he is operating under the standard HFC Holdings NDA. I would think he is very keen to keep supporters informed but cannot move beyond the Farmer/Petrie handcuffs. Anyone who thinks PK is no more than a passionate ex-footballer with a strong local accent does not know the man. The only way to get rid of Rod is to buy him out - unless any of us can see signs that he's for resigning?

Other bids
I'm also pretty sure that RP and STF will be considering other bids - there are sure to be competing proposals on the table if not already under scrutiny by HFC Holdings accountants

Lack of Transparency
It's the worst possible treatment of a company's principal investment group (Supporters) to keep them in the dark in this situation. It shows a corporate lack of respect for the people who keep the football club afloat. I cannot imagine these secretive practices being legal in other types of business. Is it not high time Hibs supporters groups stood up for ourselves and demanded board transparency and a stake in discussions about the ownership of our football club?

GGTTH

The Falcon
06-07-2014, 02:12 PM
;4088715']The thing is though. We're talkin about a football team here.


We are a football team and we are a business. Both parts need to succeed but sometimes that can be somewhat paradoxical.

Phil D. Rolls
06-07-2014, 03:21 PM
I never said you did FH, and he's not done anything to convince me either. STF has asked for confidentiality on this for the moment, and thats how it will be i'd imagine. I mean if Kane was to come out and ignore what was requested, that would also be wrong.

Its a wait and see scenario, and the sly digs are a bit stupid in my opinion.


Has he ever said that he wanted to?

As far as I'm aware, all he has so far stated is that he knows who he doesn't want to run Hibs, and many of us agree with him.

He may or may not be part of other plans going forward, as I'm sure will become clear over time, but at this point I don't think he has.

What follows is not aimed at anyone in particular. It's a reflection of some of my concerns about who will run Hibs, and why.

The dig wasn't really an attempt to get at Kane, merely to dismiss Ramsay out of hand. At the same time though, it's a bit worrying how some people are defending him, and using the "good ole boy" stuff as the only justification they have.

As for all the "working class hero" business, that's nothing short of pitiful. If people are using class as an argument, they have nothing else to offer IMO.

I don't want a middle class, or a working class Hibs, I want one that aspires to be world class.

Beefster
06-07-2014, 04:27 PM
I cannot imagine these secretive practices being legal in other types of business.

You can't imagine it being legal for other businesses to keep ownership/investment discussions private? Really?

TRC
06-07-2014, 05:07 PM
Are there not certain fans that are share holders and as such if there is something going those share holders have to be told?

CropleyWasGod
06-07-2014, 07:11 PM
Are there not certain fans that are share holders and as such if there is something going those share holders have to be told?

Probably not. The fan-shareholders are largely irrelevant in the process.

If there is an offer, it will be for the majority shareholding in Hibs, ie the 98% currently owned by the holding company. If the offer is successful, the new owners will have the right to make an offer for the rest of the shares, ie those owned by supporters.

WHUHibs
06-07-2014, 08:59 PM
You can't imagine it being legal for other businesses to keep ownership/investment discussions private? Really?

Beefster Gogs is 100% correct.

For example I work for a private company( shares not on stock exchange) and if we had an offer but were not asked to disclose as part of the management board Then I would have to sign a document.It's normal for a company that has received a letter of intent and due diligence was being undertaken. I would then set up a data room( virtual) where questions can be submitted and data would be provided. This would be in conjunction with an accountancy firm doing due diligence. In the past 9 years I have been involved in 3 such situations.

Paul will have been asked to sign a confidentiality document and this information would be provided in order to assess a bid. A little company like Hibs would not normally attract such a protocol but this is a football club and is different.

In my experience when buying a company we look at the bottom line Ebita and use a formula of multiplication thus establishing a fair offer. In terms if hibs where it runs at a loss in the last 12 months I would look at a 3 month period I.e the most recent and then exprapolate that for a 12 month period.

Hibs in value terms is virtually nil apart from the assets minus liabilities and working capital is taken into consideration. The need to produce volume income I.e season tickets, plus sponsorship monies are now vital to establish a realistic price for the club.

The final piece of the jigsaw is the CEO and any take over requires a CEO of standing to ensure this process goes through!

Now it's a Hibs we are talking about so this could be different :wink:

TRC
06-07-2014, 09:15 PM
Probably not. The fan-shareholders are largely irrelevant in the process.

If there is an offer, it will be for the majority shareholding in Hibs, ie the 98% currently owned by the holding company. If the offer is successful, the new owners will have the right to make an offer for the rest of the shares, ie those owned by supporters.
Thanks

Charnley 4
06-07-2014, 10:11 PM
Genuine question here so please take it the right way....


Is the guy who posted on here as GlobalHibby involved in this? He said he was going to work with other people behind the scenes. If the guy who posted Global Hibee is the same guy as Hibernian Retro... he will not be making any bid to take over Hibs haha. He is DJ Kid, a drum and bass DJ from Edinburgh.

Jonnyboy
06-07-2014, 10:28 PM
If the guy who posted Global Hibee is the same guy as Hibernian Retro... he will not be making any bid to take over Hibs haha. He is DJ Kid, a drum and bass DJ from Edinburgh.

He's not

Charnley 4
06-07-2014, 10:34 PM
He's not

Thanks. Didn't think it would be him! Not sure why a lot of people saying it is!

Beefster
06-07-2014, 10:37 PM
Beefster Gogs is 100% correct.

I'm not questioning what G posted about the process. I was querying the complaint about the process being kept private and the claim that the same type of confidentiality/privacy/secrecy wouldn't happen with other businesses.

WHUHibs
06-07-2014, 10:45 PM
I'm not questioning what G posted about the process. I was querying the complaint about the process being kept private and the claim that the same type of confidentiality/privacy/secrecy wouldn't happen with other businesses.

Think confidentiality is the norm, from everything I have ever been involved in! It would be to acquire the majority I.e 98% therefore there is no need to keep anything in the open?

Peevemor
06-07-2014, 11:21 PM
Think confidentiality is the norm, from everything I have ever been involved in! It would be to acquire the majority I.e 98% therefore there is no need to keep anything in the open?

You touched on it briefly in one of your earlier posts, but does the fact that Hibs' shares (or HFC Holdings or whoever) are not traded on the open market not make a huge difference?

WHUHibs
06-07-2014, 11:41 PM
You touched on it briefly in one of your earlier posts, but does the fact that Hibs' shares (or HFC Holdings or whoever) are not traded on the open market not make a huge difference?

If it's traded on the open market you have to announce it to the stock exchange but if your buying a private company or where it's not traded as such you don't need to.

Where this is different to 15 years ago STF made it clear via leaked information to the press that buyers where in the picture. Whether those buyers were correct or good for Hibs is conjecture. However, in this case with minimal information being put in the public domain suggests that this is more of a possibility than before.

My understanding is STF would like to make a change and options could be his son having the reins but he and Petrie (allegedly) don't see eye to eye. Another option is fan/trust ownership in some form or a number of hibs investors who would like to buy the club. However, STF in some guise would prefer to have the assets in some way,,,,if I read between the lines.

Clearly as Gogs has stated moves are probably being made and for the reasons I have outlined change of ownership would not be a surprise.

RIP
07-07-2014, 05:27 AM
There is a crucial difference in principle between a standard firm with shareholders, staff and customers and Hibernian FC.

A football club's parent company assets may in law belong to it's shareholders but the football club is a community asset that belongs to it's supporters. We are the main investors and custodians - this gives us a role as a key stakeholder.

The challenge for us is how to leverage that role

Jack
07-07-2014, 06:56 AM
There is a crucial difference in principle between a standard firm with shareholders, staff and customers and Hibernian FC.

A football club's parent company assets may in law belong to it's shareholders but the football club is a community asset that belongs to it's supporters. We are the main investors and custodians - this gives us a role as a key stakeholder.

The challenge for us is how to leverage that role

While the law stands as it does, and STF effectively owns us lock, stock and barrel, he can do as he pleases with Hibs. We are not the main investors in Hibs, no more than shoppers own M&S; we are not the custodians, don't make me laugh.

I've said many times we are the emotional shareholders in Hibs but in law that counts for nothing.

We have no rights whatsoever.

In my opinion its good to have a dream [of having legal input into our club] but its also very important to be realistic about our current position in the great scheme of things.

To suggest we have a role as 'key stakeholders' in current takeover discussions is airy fairy nonsense.

Caversham Green
07-07-2014, 07:32 AM
Any discussion about the sale of the club will be at a very early stage and will revolve around the current going concern value and the price to be paid for the shares. That is a matter to be discussed between the owners and prospective buyers only and publication of any details could easily jeopardise the deal, particularly where the emotions of a section of the general public are involved. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a NDA at this stage, and even if that was the case I would hope common sense would dictate that the parties keep the negotiations between themselves.

The problem with the apparent move fronted by Paul Kane is that there's a perception that they've recruited unwitting fans to their cause by using the Petrie out campaign as an avenue to further their deeper ambitions. I don't know whether that perception is accurate or unfortunate but it's not a good start IMO. Hopefully in the fullness of time all will become clear but publishing details of the negotiations at this stage would do more harm than good IMO.


There is a crucial difference in principle between a standard firm with shareholders, staff and customers and Hibernian FC.

A football club's parent company assets may in law belong to it's shareholders but the football club is a community asset that belongs to it's supporters. We are the main investors and custodians - this gives us a role as a key stakeholder.

The challenge for us is how to leverage that role

As it stands, and in the context of purchase and sale of the club, it's a personal 'enterprise' to be sold to the buyer that the owner deems to be most appropriate. Like it or not, the fans are just customers and the nature of their stakeholding is a matter for the owner's discretion. Having said that the reason the club exists is to serve the supporters rather than to make a profit for the owner so alienation of the fans would be foolish and counter-productive. In truth I can't see that changing completely, nor do I think it's particularly desirable - the future of HoMFC is likely to be fraught with difficulties - but a degree of supporter involvement - possibly along the Swansea City lines - can only be a good thing.

A start could be made by converting the club into a Community Interest Company. That would effectively tie in the stadium to the club and kill off any concerns about asset-strippers, along with engaging with the supporters more than is currently the case..

Phil D. Rolls
07-07-2014, 07:32 AM
While the law stands as it does, and STF effectively owns us lock, stock and barrel, he can do as he pleases with Hibs. We are not the main investors in Hibs, no more than shoppers own M&S; we are not the custodians, don't make me laugh.

I've said many times we are the emotional shareholders in Hibs but in law that counts for nothing.

We have no rights whatsoever.

In my opinion its good to have a dream [of having legal input into our club] but its also very important to be realistic about our current position in the great scheme of things.

To suggest we have a role as 'key stakeholders' in current takeover discussions is airy fairy nonsense.

Well said. I wish people would just get back to supporting the team.

The more people open their mouths on the subject of takeover, the more obvious it becomes that they are out of their depth.

NW
07-07-2014, 07:37 AM
While the law stands as it does, and STF effectively owns us lock, stock and barrel, he can do as he pleases with Hibs. We are not the main investors in Hibs, no more than shoppers own M&S; we are not the custodians, don't make me laugh.

I've said many times we are the emotional shareholders in Hibs but in law that counts for nothing.

We have no rights whatsoever.

In my opinion its good to have a dream [of having legal input into our club] but its also very important to be realistic about our current position in the great scheme of things.

To suggest we have a role as 'key stakeholders' in current takeover discussions is airy fairy nonsense.

Jack, surely we cannot be viewed simply as customers like at M&S, without us there is nothing, without our gate money and our emotional investment there is a breakdown. If you dont like what M&S sell you go to another shop, that doesnt work in the world of Football. I think there are examples out there that show that supporters can influence positive change and drive their club forward.

The fans role in saving the club from Mercer was vast and in many ways the same spirit, desire, drive and belief can be shown again and this phoenix can again rise

Phil D. Rolls
07-07-2014, 07:42 AM
Jack, surely we cannot be viewed simply as customers like at M&S, without us there is nothing, without our gate money and our emotional investment there is a breakdown. If you dont like what M&S sell you go to another shop, that doesnt work in the world of Football. I think there are examples out there that show that supporters can influence positive change and drive their club forward.

The fans role in saving the club from Mercer was vast and in many ways the same spirit, desire, drive and belief can be shown again and this phoenix can again rise

1. We can, get over it.
2. Give some examples.
3. A Phoenix is dead before it rises.

WHUHibs
07-07-2014, 08:05 AM
1. We can, get over it.
2. Give some examples.
3. A Phoenix is dead before it rises.

FR not sure what your trying to prove by saying get over it? The poster is making his own observation that might be right or yours might be but don't understand why there is a need for that?

If posters what to speculate about a take over they can and to say some people are out of their depth they may well be in understanding how these things operate. However, again it's a right to express how they feel and their understandings ?

A message board is a way to communicate information they feel is relevant and a number of posters do have experience in this field.

I believe there are options to look at and I don't think they way the current regime I.e STF has run Hibs has been successful in terms of the product on the pitch. Looking at how the club could be run differently could be positive for us all and it will be interesting to see what develops.

I'm sure speculation won't stop fans being passionate about how the team progresses regardless of regime changes if it happens. To be sure I hope that whatever the future holds Petrie will not be part of it but that's just my view.

Jack
07-07-2014, 08:07 AM
Jack, surely we cannot be viewed simply as customers like at M&S, without us there is nothing, without our gate money and our emotional investment there is a breakdown. If you dont like what M&S sell you go to another shop, that doesnt work in the world of Football. I think there are examples out there that show that supporters can influence positive change and drive their club forward.

The fans role in saving the club from Mercer was vast and in many ways the same spirit, desire, drive and belief can be shown again and this phoenix can again rise

I agree with your sentiment. Football is a funny old game and becomes really odd when mixed in with business!

The Mercer period one was emotionally raw for us and the Hibs support showed great determination.

At the end of the day though, then and now, we are governed by the Law of the Land, and without the business/legal side of things getting sorted away from all that emotion, the rallying of the support could/would have counted for nothing.

Phil D. Rolls
07-07-2014, 08:16 AM
FR not sure what your trying to prove by saying get over it? The poster is making his own observation that might be right or yours might be but don't understand why there is a need for that?

Reality check.

If posters what to speculate about a take over they can and to say some people are out of their depth they may well be in understanding how these things operate. However, again it's a right to express how they feel and their understandings ?

Yes but to say nothing would give people the idea nobody disagreed with them.

A message board is a way to communicate information they feel is relevant and a number of posters do have experience in this field.

Its also a place for people to say they disagree.

I believe there are options to look at and I don't think they way the current regime I.e STF has run Hibs has been successful in terms of the product on the pitch. Looking at how the club could be run differently could be positive for us all and it will be interesting to see what develops.

Cant dispute that.

I'm sure speculation won't stop fans being passionate about how the team progresses regardless of regime changes if it happens. To be sure I hope that whatever the future holds Petrie will not be part of it but that's just my view.

I think Petries days are numbered. I know there are people that have got good ideas about how to go forward. There are also others with a complete misunderstanding of the fans' place in the scheme of things.

It worries me that people who are so ill informed, yet are happy to make demands, bring lots of negative energy to the debate. The worst thing you can do is listen to these people IMO.

I've had plenty to say about the officious, self-serving, lunatics that took Hearts to the brink. The last thing we need is the same thing happening at Hibs.

It also pees me off to hear grown men talking like children. People going on about rights need to really consider what it is they are saying. People going on about emotional investment might like to take a step back and consider what is really at stake.

I am not saying that we shouldn't talk about change, but those that want that change to come need to show some maturity.

The demands of the mob, aren't always what everyone wants. But the rest if us have to live with it anyway.

NW
07-07-2014, 08:30 AM
I think Petries days are numbered. I know there are people that have got good ideas about how to go forward. There are also others with a complete misunderstanding of the fans' place in the scheme of things.

It worries me that people who are so ill informed, yet are happy to make demands, bring lots of negative energy to the debate. The worst thing you can do is listen to these people IMO.

I've had plenty to say about the officious, self-serving, lunatics that took Hearts to the brink. The last thing we need is the same thing happening at Hibs.

It also pees me off to hear grown men talking like children. People going on about rights need to really consider what it is they are saying. People going on about emotional investment might like to take a step back and consider what is really at stake.

I am not saying that we shouldn't talk about change, but those that want that change to come need to show some maturity.

The demands of the mob, aren't always what everyone wants. But the rest if us have to live with it anyway.

FR, what do you feel is the best way forward and the best way to get there if indeed you feel change is needed?

Caversham Green
07-07-2014, 08:56 AM
FR, what do you feel is the best way forward and the best way to get there if indeed you feel change is needed?

Personally, I don't think there's much wrong with the current ownership model, it's just the execution in recent years that has been wanting. Indeed, If Petrie's attempt to step down a couple of years ago had worked out he'd be viewed in a much better light by most now (not by all though, some seem to simply despise the man and would never give him credit for anything). Maybe all we need to do is appoint a new CEO with fresh ideas and get the right football people in the right places - the identity of the owner should be irrelevant. Offering a supporter's group a significant (but not controlling) stake in the club would not be a bad idea IMO and conversion to a CIC should be the way for all Scottish football clubs to go.

Given that the club was effectively dead in 1990 and now has rock-solid foundations I think history will view the Farmer project as a success, current circumstances notwithstanding. I don't think a change of ownership now is necessarily a bad thing though.

IWasThere2016
07-07-2014, 08:58 AM
;4088715']The thing is though. We're talkin about a football team here.

Football is a working class sport in Scotland. Kano is a working class man who speaks working class lingo. In other words the fans he's speaking to understand him perfectly. He's a hibs supporter and ex football player not a bloody MP.

He doesn't have to talk the Petrie political jargon because he doesn't have to. In fact I bet more people understand him than they do Rod.


:agree: And the way some people talk, you'd think Hibs were some sort of multi million world brand, we are a tin pot club in a tin pot league with a turnover of around £7m. There are countless folk in this country who run similar and much bigger companies than us, and some even speak with a dodgy leith accent.

Well said gents - and the c.£7m will fall in 14/15

Phil D. Rolls
07-07-2014, 09:08 AM
FR, what do you feel is the best way forward and the best way to get there if indeed you feel change is needed?

At this point, we need to give the new CEO time. I am not in favour of fan ownership, as too many people would want a say. That would lead to a cumbersome decision making process.

Keith_M
07-07-2014, 09:27 AM
At this point, we need to give the new CEO time. I am not in favour of fan ownership, as too many people would want a say. That would lead to a cumbersome decision making process.


I'm glad somebody else said this as I have my doubts about how that would work as well. I'm all in favour of fan representation on the Board and also of partial Fan ownership but you still need to come to a decision at some point and you can't please all of those fans, no matter what decision you make.

The German ownership model is often mentioned and I think the general idea is sound. You can still have one person with almost 50% ownership but the other shareholders are still there to stop them if they go too far (e.g. banning the number 17 from the club (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/leeds-united/10943155/Paddy-Kenny-excluded-from-Leeds-United-first-team-because-owner-Massimo-Cellino-does-not-like-number-17.html) becuase you have a phobia about it).

NAE NOOKIE
07-07-2014, 11:06 AM
While the law stands as it does, and STF effectively owns us lock, stock and barrel, he can do as he pleases with Hibs. We are not the main investors in Hibs, no more than shoppers own M&S; we are not the custodians, don't make me laugh.

I've said many times we are the emotional shareholders in Hibs but in law that counts for nothing.

We have no rights whatsoever.

In my opinion its good to have a dream [of having legal input into our club] but its also very important to be realistic about our current position in the great scheme of things.

To suggest we have a role as 'key stakeholders' in current takeover discussions is airy fairy nonsense.

In legal terms I would guess this is correct.

But heaven help any football club which took a stance on the relationship between the club and its supporters based on pure legality as outlined above. In reality the supporters of any club have ultimate power. Any decisions regarding the club made by owners, current or prospective, must be made with the supporters in mind legal rights or not ...... any other way would be extremely foolish.

Its often said that this club or that club were watched by x amount of supporters in a season, but that's not exactly true as we all know. If in the 13/14 season Hibs 19 home league matches were watched by 171,000 home supporters, that doesn't mean 171,000 people watched Hibs, it means that more or less 9,000 people watched Hibs 19 times.

Without the good will of those 9,000 people who are willing to regularly pay for a product which has been sub standard for a number of years out of pure loyalty and sentiment there would be no Hibernian F.C.

If that goodwill were to be withdrawn a billion law books piled up from here to the moon wouldn't be worth a hill of beans. Take my word for it, any similarity between the 'customers' of Hibernian Football Club and customers of supermarkets living or dead is purely coincidental.

People who think that they can do what they like with a football club and dismiss the supporters right to a moral claim as stakeholders in the club are as much, if not more, detached from reality than those of us being accused of indulging in "airy fairy nonsense"

WHUHibs
07-07-2014, 11:13 AM
I think Petries days are numbered. I know there are people that have got good ideas about how to go forward. There are also others with a complete misunderstanding of the fans' place in the scheme of things.

It worries me that people who are so ill informed, yet are happy to make demands, bring lots of negative energy to the debate. The worst thing you can do is listen to these people IMO.

I've had plenty to say about the officious, self-serving, lunatics that took Hearts to the brink. The last thing we need is the same thing happening at Hibs.

It also pees me off to hear grown men talking like children. People going on about rights need to really consider what it is they are saying. People going on about emotional investment might like to take a step back and consider what is really at stake.

I am not saying that we shouldn't talk about change, but those that want that change to come need to show some maturity.

The demands of the mob, aren't always what everyone wants. But the rest if us have to live with it anyway.


Fair comment, debate is useful mob rule isn't..I'm not really in favour of fan ownership either but representation on the board in some way would be a step in the right direction. I felt that Bruce would have given us more input but any work he may have done in the background is tarnished I think. LD gives me more confidence providing she is allowed to do the job. With Petrie gone I would feel sure but whilst he is there I am a little more guarded.

greenpaper55
07-07-2014, 11:13 AM
In legal terms I would guess this is correct.

But heaven help any football club which took a stance on the relationship between the club and its supporters based on pure legality as outlined above. In reality the supporters of any club have ultimate power. Any decisions regarding the club made by owners, current or prospective, must be made with the supporters in mind legal rights or not ...... any other way would be extremely foolish.

Its often said that this club or that club were watched by x amount of supporters in a season, but that's not exactly true as we all know. If in the 13/14 season Hibs 19 home league matches were watched by 171,000 home supporters, that doesn't mean 171,000 people watched Hibs, it means that more or less 9,000 people watched Hibs 19 times.

Without the good will of those 9,000 people who are willing to regularly pay for a product which has been sub standard for a number of years out of pure loyalty and sentiment there would be no Hibernian F.C.

If that goodwill were to be withdrawn a billion law books piled up from here to the moon wouldn't be worth a hill of beans. Take my word for it, any similarity between the 'customers' of Hibernian Football Club and customers of supermarkets living or dead is purely coincidental.

People who think that they can do what they like with a football club and dismiss the supporters right to a moral claim as stakeholders in the club are as much, if not more, detached from reality than those of us being accused of indulging in "airy fairy nonsense"

:top marksWell said, Owners take fans for granted but they should never forget that we have ultimate power.

Brightside
07-07-2014, 11:23 AM
Football hasnt been a working class sport for as long as there hasnt been a working class!

Keith_M
07-07-2014, 11:25 AM
......

Its often said that this club or that club were watched by x amount of supporters in a season, but that's not exactly true as we all know. If in the 13/14 season Hibs 19 home league matches were watched by 171,000 home supporters, that doesn't mean 171,000 people watched Hibs, it means that more or less 9,000 people watched Hibs 19 times.

......


As I just LOVE being pernickity :wink:.......


It's extremely unlikely that we had only 9,000 people attending Hibs matches last season. For instance, we sold 16,000 tickets for the home end in two matches, which would have meant most of the 9,000 people had duplicated themselves.

The most likely scenario is that we had people that attended a range of home games, anything from only 1 match up to all 19. It is, in fact, entirely possible that we had 30,000 Hibs fans that attended at least one game during the season. That would mean that the vast numbers that turn up for Cup Finals aren't actually strangers to Easter Road after all, they're just that bit more selective about what games they attend.


Other than that, you're post was very good :greengrin

Charnley 4
07-07-2014, 11:35 AM
As I just LOVE being pernickity :wink:.......


It's extremely unlikely that we had only 9,000 people attending Hibs matches last season. For instance, we sold 16,000 tickets for the home end in two matches, which would have meant most of the 9,000 people had duplicated themselves.

The most likely scenario is that we had people that attended a range of home games, anything from only 1 match up to all 19. It is, in fact, entirely possible that we had 30,000 Hibs fans that attended at least one game during the season. That would mean that the vast numbers that turn up for Cup Finals aren't actually strangers to Easter Road after all, they're just that bit more selective about what games they attend.


Other than that, you're post was very good :greengrin :thumbsup: Interesting thought.

NAE NOOKIE
07-07-2014, 12:01 PM
As I just LOVE being pernickity :wink:.......


It's extremely unlikely that we had only 9,000 people attending Hibs matches last season. For instance, we sold 16,000 tickets for the home end in two matches, which would have meant most of the 9,000 people had duplicated themselves.

The most likely scenario is that we had people that attended a range of home games, anything from only 1 match up to all 19. It is, in fact, entirely possible that we had 30,000 Hibs fans that attended at least one game during the season. That would mean that the vast numbers that turn up for Cup Finals aren't actually strangers to Easter Road after all, they're just that bit more selective about what games they attend.


Other than that, you're post was very good :greengrin

I know I was trying to keep it simple :greengrin

Keith_M
07-07-2014, 03:31 PM
I know I was trying to keep it simple :greengrin


Simple Minds and all that....


:wink:

Phil D. Rolls
07-07-2014, 04:37 PM
Football hasnt been a working class sport for as long as there hasnt been a working class!

Well said.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
07-07-2014, 04:42 PM
:top marksWell said, Owners take fans for granted but they should never forget that we have ultimate power.


I agree, but that power is only virtual until we use it.

We may have the power, but blind loyalty means it is often, in reality, non-existent power.

Despite what they claim, football (or at least Scottish football) is NOT a business like any other. In my view clubs should remember that.

I would be in favour of some fan representation on the Board, but im with Filled Rolls on this one - fan ownership is a bad idea.

The Falcon
07-07-2014, 05:21 PM
The fans role in saving the club from Mercer was vast and in many ways the same spirit, desire, drive and belief can be shown again and this phoenix can again rise


The effort was vast and commendable but, ultimately, it came down to David Duff's decision not to sell his shares to Mercer. Slightly earlier than that it was Sheila Rowland not doing her ex husbands bidding. If either of those had fallen Mercer's way we were gone.

Peevemor
07-07-2014, 05:50 PM
Fair comment, debate is useful mob rule isn't..I'm not really in favour of fan ownership either but representation on the board in some way would be a step in the right direction. I felt that Bruce would have given us more input but any work he may have done in the background is tarnished I think. LD gives me more confidence providing she is allowed to do the job. With Petrie gone I would feel sure but whilst he is there I am a little more guarded.

In a similar discussion a few weeks ago, somebody pointed out that the other male board members are long standing Hibs fans, so is there not already supporter representation?

Assuming STF/RP appointments don't fulfil the general conception of "fans", how do you choose the representative? Look at the outrage shown by some on here when Mike Riley (sp?) is asked his opinion by the EEN.

I liked LD's response when asked about supporter representation on the board. She said something along the lines of it only being right if they have a defined role and a function to fulfil, ie. not just being there for the sake of it.

Stonewall
07-07-2014, 05:55 PM
Well said gents - and the c.£7m will fall in 14/15

You sound like that makes you happy.

WHUHibs
07-07-2014, 06:11 PM
In a similar discussion a few weeks ago, somebody pointed out that the other male board members are long standing Hibs fans, so is there not already supporter representation?

Assuming STF/RP appointments don't fulfil the general conception of "fans", how do you choose the representative? Look at the outrage shown by some on here when Mike Riley (sp?) is asked his opinion by the EEN.

I liked LD's response when asked about supporter representation on the board. She said something along the lines of it only being right if they have a defined role and a function to fulfil, ie. not just being there for the sake of it.

Probably thinking about it there isn't an easy solution and both the guys you mention have been there through a time where the board haven't really covered themselves in glory.

Perhaps it's just a romantic notion of bringing on people who are genuinely Hibs fans who can make a difference. Perhaps the only person I could think of that would be quite a universally accepted appointment is Pat Stanton? His value is to provide a players input, fans input and an ambassador for the brand.

Just a thought!

RIP
07-07-2014, 06:37 PM
The more people open their mouths on the subject of takeover, the more obvious it becomes that they are out of their depth.

Any chance you could run a course?

If Farmer is definitely selling up you may have some takers. Remember what happened when David Murray sold his stake in the Huns? The club has been a shambles ever since.

That's what happens when supporters sleepwalk during a takeover. How do we stop that happening at Hibs? Or do we assume ownership disasters can only happen over on the dark side?

NW
07-07-2014, 07:34 PM
Well given that STF is deffo in talks with 2 seperate parties he must be willing and keen to step aside. Massone still haant found a way back in to football as yet

Jack
07-07-2014, 09:20 PM
In legal terms I would guess this is correct.

But heaven help any football club which took a stance on the relationship between the club and its supporters based on pure legality as outlined above. In reality the supporters of any club have ultimate power. Any decisions regarding the club made by owners, current or prospective, must be made with the supporters in mind legal rights or not ...... any other way would be extremely foolish.

Its often said that this club or that club were watched by x amount of supporters in a season, but that's not exactly true as we all know. If in the 13/14 season Hibs 19 home league matches were watched by 171,000 home supporters, that doesn't mean 171,000 people watched Hibs, it means that more or less 9,000 people watched Hibs 19 times.

Without the good will of those 9,000 people who are willing to regularly pay for a product which has been sub standard for a number of years out of pure loyalty and sentiment there would be no Hibernian F.C.

If that goodwill were to be withdrawn a billion law books piled up from here to the moon wouldn't be worth a hill of beans. Take my word for it, any similarity between the 'customers' of Hibernian Football Club and customers of supermarkets living or dead is purely coincidental.

People who think that they can do what they like with a football club and dismiss the supporters right to a moral claim as stakeholders in the club are as much, if not more, detached from reality than those of us being accused of indulging in "airy fairy nonsense"

I appreciate exactly where you're coming from and like many on here I have invested financially and more so emotionally.

Any company or organisation that ignores its users does so at its peril.

Having said that I'll give you Ratners and their jewellery that wouldn't last as long as a prawn sandwich in the West Stand, it crashed.

On the other hand you have the Royal Bank of Scotland who have continually and royally mucked up, in so many ways, over the last decade at least but still have misplaced customer loyalty.

Hibs have lost thousands of customers/supporters over the last 7 years/4 decades, take what you will depending on age. In my opinion they, the owners, are pushing our luck.

The supporters are important, we will always be there apart from the missing thousands with their unending excuses, but impotent at the same time in the current and similar situations. We will remain so without the millions it would probably take to prise our club from a single/corporate owner.

I'm basically with you and can see valid reasons why SFT should hand the club over to the community for no more than a quid. As the current legal owner though its 100% upto STF, not the fantasising fans, nor the steadfast and passionate support.

NAE NOOKIE
07-07-2014, 09:37 PM
I agree, but that power is only virtual until we use it.

We may have the power, but blind loyalty means it is often, in reality, non-existent power.

Despite what they claim, football (or at least Scottish football) is NOT a business like any other. In my view clubs should remember that.

I would be in favour of some fan representation on the Board, but im with Filled Rolls on this one - fan ownership is a bad idea.

I agree outright fan ownership wouldn't work, we just don't have the numbers needed to put enough money in. But some form of partial fan ownership could be viable through a foundation or fans trust.

SunshineOnLeith
07-07-2014, 10:33 PM
In a similar discussion a few weeks ago, somebody pointed out that the other male board members are long standing Hibs fans, so is there not already supporter representation?

Assuming STF/RP appointments don't fulfil the general conception of "fans", how do you choose the representative? Look at the outrage shown by some on here when Mike Riley (sp?) is asked his opinion by the EEN.

I liked LD's response when asked about supporter representation on the board. She said something along the lines of it only being right if they have a defined role and a function to fulfil, ie. not just being there for the sake of it.

This is the point of the 'fan ownership' argument that rankles with me. Just because someone is an accountant or otherwise has the business experience to merit a seat on the board doesn't preclude them from being/acting as a fan. There's members of the Hibs board I'd sooner have speak on my behalf as a fan than the likes of Mike Reilly (not meaning to single him out in a derogatory way, just he's the name that the press always dig out).

RIP
07-07-2014, 10:38 PM
The supporters are important, we will always be there apart from the missing thousands with their unending excuses, but impotent at the same time in the current and similar situations. We will remain so without the millions it would probably take to prise our club from a single/corporate owner.

I'm basically with you and can see valid reasons why SFT should hand the club over to the community for no more than a quid. As the current legal owner though its 100% upto STF, not the fantasising fans, nor the steadfast and passionate support.

Thanks Jack - a good measured post apart from another dismissive inference to fantasising fans. I'm yet to meet one although Hibernian Retro came close. Nobody needs to read Hibs.Net to obtain a lesson in corporate law. We know how it is. Paul Kane's consortium knows how it is. The other bidders know how it is. We have a private ownership model if you count STF/RP as a team of one who own almost all the shares.

But the current situation will change fairly soon whether we like it or not. Is Tom Farmer any different to every other single benefactor owner in Scottish football? His time to pass the club on may be imminent, probably this year, next year at the latest. He will leave a lasting legacy of infrastructure and for the most part our thanks for effective stewardship.

What have we learned from the experience of Rangers, Dunfermline and Hearts fans who were hostages to fortune when David Murray, Gavin Masterton and Vladimir Romanov walked away? Are we not witnessing long, drawn out sagas at Motherwell, Killie and St Mirren with Boyle, Johnston and Gilmour? Is it not apparent that the single ownership models that stood Scottish Football in good stead for so long are nearing the end of their useful shelf life? Banks, politicians, business consortiums and fans groups need to work together to design and implement more sustainable operating models for the game in this country.

As Hibs Supporters, how to we ensure we exercise due diligence and mitigate risks over the future of our football club as it moves into the post-Farmer era? What contribution should we make to these discussions? Fans at other clubs have been active for years working on community ownership solutions. Is it not time for us to do likewise?

That's neither fantasy nor immaturity. It is about accepting responsibility for stewardship and placing our rights at the very heart of discussions. It is simply a different vision of a club rooted in a talented/articulate supporter base, strong family traditions, community and business interests.

NW
08-07-2014, 09:44 AM
The future has to be green and with the right people behind it with ambition, realism and a strong affection for our club. I want no charlatan getting near us. STF has been a safe custodian and we are still here with a good infrastructure. Financially we need some work and on the park is the key and the way to drive it all. It's not rocket science.

gorgie greens
09-07-2014, 05:34 AM
The future has to be green and with the right people behind it with ambition, realism and a strong affection for our club. I want no charlatan getting near us. STF has been a safe custodian and we are still here with a good infrastructure. Financially we need some work and on the park is the key and the way to drive it all. It's not rocket science.

The good thing about STF is he has already stated that Charlatans need not apply as he wont just sell to anyone,and i think thats why if there is two possible bids on the table then hes obviously doing his homework on these guys,think that would rule out The Massones and the Brian Kennedys that hover about like vultures over clubs

NW
09-07-2014, 07:01 AM
The good thing about STF is he has already stated that Charlatans need not apply as he wont just sell to anyone,and i think thats why if there is two possible bids on the table then hes obviously doing his homework on these guys,think that would rule out The Massones and the Brian Kennedys that hover about like vultures over clubs
I agree but what if the right bid is not on the table? It's our club we must safeguard it

Greenworld
09-07-2014, 07:33 AM
The good thing about STF is he has already stated that Charlatans need not apply as he wont just sell to anyone,and i think thats why if there is two possible bids on the table then hes obviously doing his homework on these guys,think that would rule out The Massones and the Brian Kennedys that hover about like vultures over clubs
Correct If?

Moon unit
09-07-2014, 08:10 AM
Football hasnt been a working class sport for as long as there hasnt been a working class!
Which Ivory tower did [ Quote] person live in?...the working class make up the majority of the nation. You have people who like to pretend that they are Middle class because they have a bloody I pad or a wee motor!
People should not be ashamed to admit that they are Working class!

Brightside
09-07-2014, 08:17 AM
What we have now is Benefits class, lower middle, middle, upper. But if you think working class make up the majority of supporters you'd be miles off. Working class people simply wouldn't be able to afford football!

sadtom
09-07-2014, 08:42 AM
What we have now is Benefits class, lower middle, middle, upper. But if you think working class make up the majority of supporters you'd be miles off. Working class people simply wouldn't be able to afford football!

What complete and utter p1$h.
Sounds like you are yet another of those folk suckered into the 'classification' myth.
Do you employ other people? No?
Do you manage other people for the benefit of another? No?
Do you make an income from owning land/property? No?
Then i'm dreadfully sorry to burst you bubble but no matter what 'trinkets' you own, from a house to a laptop, or whether you are out of work, in part time work, recieving benefits, as part of the so-called 'underclass' (which has always existed but in reality is just a reserve army of labour, and still part of the working class). Tgen i'm sorry to break the news but you, like the vast majority if the population and the football attending crowds are WORKING CLASS!
You dont have to have your backside hanging out you trousers to be working class, nor does wearing a tie make you middle class.
You sound like an american sociologists dream.

greenpaper55
09-07-2014, 08:45 AM
What complete and utter p1$h.
Sounds like you are yet another of those folk suckered into the 'classification' myth.
Do you employ other people? No?
Do you manage other people for the benefit of another? No?
Do you make an income from owning land/property? No?
Then i'm dreadfully sorry to burst you bubble but no matter what 'trinkets' you own, from a house to a laptop, or whether you are out of work, in part time work, recieving benefits, as part of the so-called 'underclass' (which has always existed but in reality is just a reserve army of labour, and still part of the working class). Tgen i'm sorry to break the news but you, like the vast majority if the population and the football attending crowds are WORKING CLASS!
You dont have to have your backside hanging out you trousers to be working class, nor does wearing a tie make you middle class.
You sound like an american sociologists dream.

Is any of this chat to do with a takeover ?.

#2 Double Tap
09-07-2014, 08:46 AM
:greengrin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

marinello59
09-07-2014, 08:52 AM
Which Ivory tower did [ Quote] person live in?...the working class make up the majority of the nation. You have people who like to pretend that they are Middle class because they have a bloody I pad or a wee motor!
People should not be ashamed to admit that they are Working class!

I don't think anybody has said that have they?

sadtom
09-07-2014, 09:02 AM
Is any of this chat to do with a takeover ?.

Did you ask the same question to the poster who took us on this tangent. I was merely replying to them.
That ok with you?

Kato
09-07-2014, 09:19 AM
Working class people simply wouldn't be able to afford football!

Snobbish waffle.

greenpaper55
09-07-2014, 09:35 AM
Did you ask the same question to the poster who took us on this tangent. I was merely replying to them.
That ok with you?

Sorry, didn't know i had to ask your permission to post !. What has any of this to do with a takeover.

Iggy Pope
09-07-2014, 09:42 AM
Sorry, didn't know i had to ask your permission to post !. What has any of this to do with a takeover.

This is how discussion works. You can't control the power of the Hibs.net meander.
If we were all in a boozer, what a rammy would ensue.

boab1875
09-07-2014, 09:51 AM
Sorry, didn't know i had to ask your permission to post !. What has any of this to do with a takeover.

why are you so upset that people have decided to go off on a tangeant? It seems to bother you for some reason. They can speak about whatever they want. The main problem with this place is that if people express an opinion that is not in line with the majority or is about a different topic they are subject to personal abuse and unjust criticism. I just don't understand this place sometimes.

#2 Double Tap
09-07-2014, 09:54 AM
why are you so upset that people have decided to go off on a tangeant? It seems to bother you for some reason. They can speak about whatever they want. The main problem with this place is that if people express an opinion that is not in line with the majority or is about a different topic they are subject to personal abuse and unjust criticism. I just don't understand this place sometimes.

the main problem with hibs.net is the amount of yams who post here imo

IWasThere2016
09-07-2014, 09:56 AM
You sound like that makes you happy.

Well you'd be awfy wrong. I have been vilified but vindicated as I have been ascertaining that RP would lead us here. He is a liability IMHO.

Crazyhorse
09-07-2014, 09:56 AM
What complete and utter p1$h.
Sounds like you are yet another of those folk suckered into the 'classification' myth.
Do you employ other people? No?
Do you manage other people for the benefit of another? No?
Do you make an income from owning land/property? No?
Then i'm dreadfully sorry to burst you bubble but no matter what 'trinkets' you own, from a house to a laptop, or whether you are out of work, in part time work, recieving benefits, as part of the so-called 'underclass' (which has always existed but in reality is just a reserve army of labour, and still part of the working class). Tgen i'm sorry to break the news but you, like the vast majority if the population and the football attending crowds are WORKING CLASS!
You dont have to have your backside hanging out you trousers to be working class, nor does wearing a tie make you middle class.
You sound like an american sociologists dream.

Today it makes more sense to talk about socio-economic groups based on several, usually interrelated factors:
Personal income
Household income
Educational qualifications

'Class' in any essentialist sense is a nonsensical notion.

IWasThere2016
09-07-2014, 09:58 AM
Personally, I don't think there's much wrong with the current ownership model, it's just the execution in recent years that has been wanting. Indeed, If Petrie's attempt to step down a couple of years ago had worked out he'd be viewed in a much better light by most now (not by all though, some seem to simply despise the man and would never give him credit for anything). Maybe all we need to do is appoint a new CEO with fresh ideas and get the right football people in the right places - the identity of the owner should be irrelevant. Offering a supporter's group a significant (but not controlling) stake in the club would not be a bad idea IMO and conversion to a CIC should be the way for all Scottish football clubs to go.

Given that the club was effectively dead in 1990 and now has rock-solid foundations I think history will view the Farmer project as a success, current circumstances notwithstanding. I don't think a change of ownership now is necessarily a bad thing though.

:top marks - on the last bit, I personally think it is essential now.

Iggy Pope
09-07-2014, 09:58 AM
Today it makes more sense to talk about socio-economic groups based on several, usually interrelated factors:
Personal income
Household income
Educational qualifications

'Class' in any essentialist sense is a nonsensical notion.

What about if we spoke in an existentialist sense instead?

Brightside
09-07-2014, 09:58 AM
It's snobbish to claim that football is working class.
It's also not snobbish to admit to not being working class. And it's just daft to say that anyone who works is working class.
The tangent was taken by someone claiming it was a working class sport for working class people. Which is bull.
:-)

Brightside
09-07-2014, 09:59 AM
Today it makes more sense to talk about socio-economic groups based on several, usually interrelated factors:
Personal income
Household income
Educational qualifications

'Class' in any essentialist sense is a nonsensical notion.
Spot on. Anyone must dash I have a chimney to sweep.

Keith_M
09-07-2014, 10:04 AM
I used to be a Window Cleaner but I gave it up because it made me look like a Social Climber.

IWasThere2016
09-07-2014, 10:04 AM
Spot on. Anyone must dash I have a chimney to sweep.

You get some impish minor from the workhoose to do it surely!

Kato
09-07-2014, 10:12 AM
It's snobbish to claim that football is working class.
It's also not snobbish to admit to not being working class. And it's just daft to say that anyone who works is working class.
The tangent was taken by someone claiming it was a working class sport for working class people. Which is bull.
:-)

Why wouldn't "working class" people be able to afford to attend football games?

Lucius Apuleius
09-07-2014, 10:24 AM
Why wouldn't "working class" people be able to afford to attend football games?

Not going to get into a class debate. I was not a social worker so don't know the current official parlance . There is however a group of people whocannot afford to go to football matches. This is shown time and again on this board. I obviously don't know why these people cannot afford to go, whether it is because they are unemployed and have better use for their money,like housing and feeding their family or whether they are inlow paid jobs with the same restrictions orwhether they just left to spend their money on other things which ofcourse is there prerogative. I find it extremely sad when I read posts from people saying they just cannot afford a game when others spend more than that in the pub before going to the game . Not a clue what the answer is though. Cheaper entrance will only lead to a lesser, if possible, product, unless of course we can persuade footballers to take massive wage cuts.

Kato
09-07-2014, 10:29 AM
Not going to get into a class debate. I was not a social worker so don't know the current official parlance . There is however a group of people who cannot afford to go to football matches. This is shown time and again on this board. I obviously don't know why these people cannot afford to go, whether it is because they are unemployed and have better use for their money,like housing and feeding their family or whether they are inlow paid jobs with the same restrictions orwhether they just left to spend their money on other things which ofcourse is there prerogative. I find it extremely sad when I read posts from people saying they just cannot afford a game when others spend more than that in the pub before going to the game . Not a clue what the answer is though. Cheaper entrance will only lead to a lesser, if possible, product, unless of course we can persuade footballers to take massive wage cuts.

I agree with what you are saying broadly speaking but I know of many "ordinary working people" whose main luxury and focus in life is their football team. There are also people who earn a bit more than that but are still "working class" who put a lot into Hibs.

Crazyhorse
09-07-2014, 10:45 AM
What about if we spoke in an existentialist sense instead?

Good idea you start a thread on metaphysics Jean-Paul. I'll join you later, I promise.

Iggy Pope
09-07-2014, 11:14 AM
Good idea you start a thread on metaphysics Jean-Paul. I'll join you later, I promise.

Great. But after last night, I'm veering more towards Nietzsche. His use of irony suits the thread better.

MrSmith
09-07-2014, 11:18 AM
Not Hibs class! :cb:flag:

jacomo
09-07-2014, 11:43 AM
A fairly remarkable individual called Bill Ash died recently.

His life story is quite a read:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/29/bill-ash

He was a committed socialist, and had this to say about the class system, which I think rings pretty true:


"As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is one pay cheque ahead of disaster is working class."

Lucius Apuleius
09-07-2014, 12:05 PM
I agree with what you are saying broadly speaking but I know of many "ordinary working people" whose main luxury and focus in life is their football team. There are also people who earn a bit more than that but are still "working class" who put a lot into Hibs.

Absolutely correct and that of course is their prerogative. Second sentence absolutely correct yet again. I would never consider myself anything but working class no matter the accoutrements of life that I have gathered. dad was a miner, wife's dad was a fireman, don't see how I could be anything but working class.:agree:

blackpoolhibs
09-07-2014, 12:24 PM
I'm aspiring to be working class, someone give me a job please. :wink:

Lucius Apuleius
09-07-2014, 12:26 PM
I'm aspiring to be working class, someone give me a job please. :wink:

:greengrin Actually I'm the same!!!! Only 58 and on the scrapheap with no income or **** all!!!!

bighairyfaeleith
09-07-2014, 12:28 PM
I'm aspiring to be working class, someone give me a job please. :wink:

No ****ing danger!!

marti1875
09-07-2014, 12:36 PM
So by looking at the past 1.5 pages on this alleged "takeover" thread i do assume there is no takeover at all seeing no-one's talking about any sort of takeover whatsoever and seems to have been takenover by people not talking about any potential takeover? :greengrin:greengrin

Keith_M
09-07-2014, 12:50 PM
So by looking at the past 1.5 pages on this alleged "takeover" thread i do assume there is no takeover at all seeing no-one's talking about any sort of takeover whatsoever and seems to have been takenover by people not talking about any potential takeover? :greengrin:greengrin


You're gonna wish you hadn't wrote that

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286717-forever-Hibernian


:wink:

marti1875
09-07-2014, 01:05 PM
You're gonna wish you hadn't wrote that

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286717-forever-Hibernian


:wink:

Eh? That's a completely different thread though? Funny enough i'm talking about this thread hence me posting on this thread....now if i posted my comment on the thread you have gave a link to i agree :na na::greengrin

number9dream
09-07-2014, 01:18 PM
From Simon Pia... Pie in the sky or the start of a realistic project??


Hibernian supporters today announced the next stage of their campaign to secure the long-term future of the club for the fans.

The Forever Hibernian campaign will set out to buy the club and the stadium from the current owner with a majority shareholding held by the fans, in perpetuity.

Last week the first proposal put to HFC Holding Ltd, the club’s parent company, was rejected due to tax and investment complications.

However Paul Kane, spokesperson for the fans group, said:

"It is a step forward and we are over the first hurdle.

“We met with Sir Tom Farmer a couple of weeks ago and put in a proposal. That has been rejected at this stage, but the door has not been closed.

"We are now drawing up a proposal for a Newco Hibernian Fans Co-Operative to own the club and the stadium.

“The key point is the fans will own a 51 per cent majority shareholding through a membership scheme and we will attract finance for the other 49 per cent.

"We have already talked to potential investors in the business community who are Hibs supporters as well as other potential investors.

“We know we are going in the right direction and can reach an agreement with the club owner with both parties acting in good faith.

“The current owner acknowledges the club is entering a new era and we are confident we can establish common ground.

“Sir Tom Farmer has always said he saved Hibs for the community. Now is the time to establish his legacy for Hibs with the fans at the very heart of the club.

“It is also crucial both sides act in an open and transparent manner. We are busy making sure we get the right model and no doubt there will be adjustments regards the membership scheme, details of the co-operative and trust etc.

“We are working with the Hibs Supporters Association and all the people involved, putting in a lot of effort in the background, are Hibs people with one common goal - Forever Hibernian.

“We will present more details to the fans as soon as we can in the near future about the membership scheme. Overall we are in for the long haul.

“Meanwhile football clubs know they are in a new era of openness and transparency where they have to involve and respect the fans – especially with social media where their views cannot be ignored.

“The Hibs support has had serious concerns about how the club has been run by the current board and chairman. They want radical change as was seen at the rally at Easter Road on June 7. Since then we have come up with our first proposal. There were some problems which we feel we can rectify. Now it is stage two with the new proposal.

“There is now a hard-headed realism in Scottish football. There are few if any sugar daddies out there who are going to come in and buy the club for millions. But we are confident we can now build a new future for Hibs with the fans forever at the heart of it.”

Islington Hibs
09-07-2014, 01:51 PM
From Simon Pia... Pie in the sky or the start of a realistic project??


Hibernian supporters today announced the next stage of their campaign to secure the long-term future of the club for the fans.

The Forever Hibernian campaign will set out to buy the club and the stadium from the current owner with a majority shareholding held by the fans, in perpetuity.

Last week the first proposal put to HFC Holding Ltd, the club’s parent company, was rejected due to tax and investment complications.

However Paul Kane, spokesperson for the fans group, said:

"It is a step forward and we are over the first hurdle.

“We met with Sir Tom Farmer a couple of weeks ago and put in a proposal. That has been rejected at this stage, but the door has not been closed.

"We are now drawing up a proposal for a Newco Hibernian Fans Co-Operative to own the club and the stadium.

“The key point is the fans will own a 51 per cent majority shareholding through a membership scheme and we will attract finance for the other 49 per cent.

"We have already talked to potential investors in the business community who are Hibs supporters as well as other potential investors.

“We know we are going in the right direction and can reach an agreement with the club owner with both parties acting in good faith.

“The current owner acknowledges the club is entering a new era and we are confident we can establish common ground.

“Sir Tom Farmer has always said he saved Hibs for the community. Now is the time to establish his legacy for Hibs with the fans at the very heart of the club.

“It is also crucial both sides act in an open and transparent manner. We are busy making sure we get the right model and no doubt there will be adjustments regards the membership scheme, details of the co-operative and trust etc.

“We are working with the Hibs Supporters Association and all the people involved, putting in a lot of effort in the background, are Hibs people with one common goal - Forever Hibernian.

“We will present more details to the fans as soon as we can in the near future about the membership scheme. Overall we are in for the long haul.

“Meanwhile football clubs know they are in a new era of openness and transparency where they have to involve and respect the fans – especially with social media where their views cannot be ignored.

“The Hibs support has had serious concerns about how the club has been run by the current board and chairman. They want radical change as was seen at the rally at Easter Road on June 7. Since then we have come up with our first proposal. There were some problems which we feel we can rectify. Now it is stage two with the new proposal.

“There is now a hard-headed realism in Scottish football. There are few if any sugar daddies out there who are going to come in and buy the club for millions. But we are confident we can now build a new future for Hibs with the fans forever at the heart of it.”

This is great but we need to be very careful. I trawl through this site shows there are a thousand different views and timescales. The club needs committed professional management that can take a reasonably long term view. I am not against fan ownership but this must be done in a sustainable way allowing the management a decent period of time to prove themselves. It cannot be run as a cabal with short term amateurish decisions. The club also needs access to capital and that is not easy to achieve with a fan ownership model. We need to be very carful here

Crazyhorse
09-07-2014, 01:55 PM
Great. But after last night, I'm veering more towards Nietzsche. His use of irony suits the thread better.

He would have loved football forums.

Iggy Pope
09-07-2014, 02:03 PM
He would have loved football forums.

I reckon he may have been binned by now.
Then again, he might be Dashing Bob.......if he exists.

jacomo
09-07-2014, 02:07 PM
From Simon Pia... Pie in the sky or the start of a realistic project??


Hibernian supporters today announced the next stage of their campaign to secure the long-term future of the club for the fans.

The Forever Hibernian campaign will set out to buy the club and the stadium from the current owner with a majority shareholding held by the fans, in perpetuity.

Last week the first proposal put to HFC Holding Ltd, the club’s parent company, was rejected due to tax and investment complications.

However Paul Kane, spokesperson for the fans group, said:

"It is a step forward and we are over the first hurdle.

“We met with Sir Tom Farmer a couple of weeks ago and put in a proposal. That has been rejected at this stage, but the door has not been closed.

"We are now drawing up a proposal for a Newco Hibernian Fans Co-Operative to own the club and the stadium.

“The key point is the fans will own a 51 per cent majority shareholding through a membership scheme and we will attract finance for the other 49 per cent.

"We have already talked to potential investors in the business community who are Hibs supporters as well as other potential investors.

“We know we are going in the right direction and can reach an agreement with the club owner with both parties acting in good faith.

“The current owner acknowledges the club is entering a new era and we are confident we can establish common ground.

“Sir Tom Farmer has always said he saved Hibs for the community. Now is the time to establish his legacy for Hibs with the fans at the very heart of the club.

“It is also crucial both sides act in an open and transparent manner. We are busy making sure we get the right model and no doubt there will be adjustments regards the membership scheme, details of the co-operative and trust etc.

“We are working with the Hibs Supporters Association and all the people involved, putting in a lot of effort in the background, are Hibs people with one common goal - Forever Hibernian.

“We will present more details to the fans as soon as we can in the near future about the membership scheme. Overall we are in for the long haul.

“Meanwhile football clubs know they are in a new era of openness and transparency where they have to involve and respect the fans – especially with social media where their views cannot be ignored.

“The Hibs support has had serious concerns about how the club has been run by the current board and chairman. They want radical change as was seen at the rally at Easter Road on June 7. Since then we have come up with our first proposal. There were some problems which we feel we can rectify. Now it is stage two with the new proposal.

“There is now a hard-headed realism in Scottish football. There are few if any sugar daddies out there who are going to come in and buy the club for millions. But we are confident we can now build a new future for Hibs with the fans forever at the heart of it.”

1. Is this for real?
2. If it is, did he really say Newco? Surely he doesn't mean that? Surely he means buying the existing company (by which I mean Hibernian Football Club and associated assets) as a going concern?
3. Being rejected 'due to tax and investment complications' does not sound good. In fact, it sounds as if the proposal was in not credible.

SunshineOnLeith
09-07-2014, 02:23 PM
We are working with the Hibs Supporters Association and all the people involved, putting in a lot of effort in the background, are Hibs people with one common goal - Forever Hibernian.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEi4I6UWuDQ

Cringe.

marinello59
09-07-2014, 03:00 PM
1. Is this for real?
2. If it is, did he really say Newco? Surely he doesn't mean that? Surely he means buying the existing company (by which I mean Hibernian Football Club and associated assets) as a going concern?
3. Being rejected 'due to tax and investment complications' does not sound good. In fact, it sounds as if the proposal was in not credible.

I thought he had submitted 2 proposals. That always struck me as strange though as it suggested a lack of focus. Surely this isn't a hurriedly thought out third proposal though.

Greenworld
12-07-2014, 07:03 AM
This is great but we need to be very careful. I trawl through this site shows there are a thousand different views and timescales. The club needs committed professional management that can take a reasonably long term view. I am not against fan ownership but this must be done in a sustainable way allowing the management a decent period of time to prove themselves. It cannot be run as a cabal with short term amateurish decisions. The club also needs access to capital and that is not easy to achieve with a fan ownership model. We need to be very carful here
You bet we need to be careful fans are not buying season tickets as it stands so I have my doubts about them buying into a club ownership scheme

Phil D. Rolls
12-07-2014, 08:00 AM
You bet we need to be careful fans are not buying season tickets as it stands so I have my doubts about them buying into a club ownership scheme

Maybe it's the uncertainty that's putting them off. Once they know what they're being asked to support, they'll make up their minds. Thank god, we don't need to resort to selling cakes out of Betterware boxes.

Keith_M
12-07-2014, 10:25 AM
....
3. Being rejected 'due to tax and investment complications' does not sound good. In fact, it sounds as if the proposal was in not credible.


Is it possible that these complications relate to the current setup and how it would be transferred to new ownership?

For instance, if STF has guaranteed any loans, they would need to work out how to transfer those loans to a different guarantor. It could just be a case that the 'devil is in the detail'.

Steven_Hibs
14-07-2014, 06:23 PM
I've just heard Sir Tom is definitely going to sell up. Kano is definitely going to buy us!

nribs
14-07-2014, 06:25 PM
I've just heard Sir Tom is definitely going to sell up. Kano is definitely going to buy us!

When did Kano get rich??

Malthibby
14-07-2014, 06:29 PM
When did Kano get rich??

Indeed. Go on then and tell us, source? Irony? Trolling?

Brightside
14-07-2014, 06:40 PM
I've just heard Sir Tom is definitely going to sell up. Kano is definitely going to buy us!

Oh FFS.

Paperboy
14-07-2014, 06:40 PM
When did Kano get rich??

I take it you've never bought a pint in the Tor!

Steven_Hibs
14-07-2014, 06:49 PM
Indeed. Go on then and tell us, source? Irony? Trolling?

The same negative boring responses when I post my info on here. Take my word for it. No timescale yet but Kano has investors!

Steven_Hibs
14-07-2014, 06:51 PM
Oh FFS.

Ok

DarlingtonHibee
14-07-2014, 07:47 PM
The same negative boring responses when I post my info on here. Take my word for it. No timescale yet but Kano has investors!

Given your age you will understand my caution - when are we getting a view of potential investors, who are ready to lose a stack of cash, or are they looking to buy Hibs on the cheap?

bigwheel
14-07-2014, 07:53 PM
The same negative boring responses when I post my info on here. Take my word for it. No timescale yet but Kano has investors!

Well considering the whole premise is based on enough Hibs fans supporting the deal committing funds , and he has committed to initially gauge interest before progressing any deal ..added to that The fact that this hasn't been done yet, and Kano has no idea the level of actual support he will get for his proposal of community ownership of the 51% - it is miles too early to suggest a change of ownership - and it certainly won't be "Kano buying Hibs"...

The Falcon
14-07-2014, 08:04 PM
Does anybody know how much these %'s are in actual cash?

Ronniekirk
14-07-2014, 08:11 PM
I've just heard Sir Tom is definitely going to sell up. Kano is definitely going to buy us!
From his interview on sports sound on Saturday it is clear there is ongoing dialogue and that he feels he has investors in the pipeline but he also made it clear he doesn't have all the answers and that lots more work needs done on the type of model and percentages etc He also made it clear he would put in some of his own money but he was open to others coming on board so it's certainly not any done deal but sounds like there is an opportunity for something to come out of this but equally it has to be right for Hibs going forward and not something rushed as it gets rid of Rod ,because it's clear he isn't going anywhere quickly which is what we all thought But at least demonstration has brought about constructive talks which it it's self has been positive step IMO

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2014, 08:16 PM
From his interview on sports sound on Saturday it is clear there is ongoing dialogue and that he feels he has investors in the pipeline but he also made it clear he doesn't have all the answers and that lots more work needs done on the type of model and percentages etc He also made it clear he would put in some of his own money but he was open to others coming on board so it's certainly not any done deal but sounds like there is an opportunity for something to come out of this but equally it has to be right for Hibs going forward and not something rushed as it gets rid of Rod ,because it's clear he isn't going anywhere quickly which is what we all thought But at least demonstration has brought about constructive talks which it it's self has been positive step IMO

:agree: Especially when anyone who suggested Farmer should sell up, were told there was nobody out there who'd be able to do so or even want to. That was always bollox.

Gerard
14-07-2014, 09:57 PM
:agree: Especially when anyone who suggested Farmer should sell up, were told there was nobody out there who'd be able to do so or even want to. That was always bollox.

Perhaps that is a part of the 'Winds of change process'?

blackpoolhibs
14-07-2014, 10:21 PM
Perhaps that is a part of the 'Winds of change process'?

Could be, but those who say there's nobody out there who want to takeover the reigns of the club have always been wrong.

The_Horde
15-07-2014, 12:49 AM
Looks like I opened up a class debate and didn't even notice. I don't really think it matters.

People got my general point that Paul Kane is a normal, every day gadgey who loves the hibs and he's speaking for normal, every day hibs supporters like ourselves.

If you think you can do a better job then put your proposal forward!

CB_NO3
15-07-2014, 02:42 AM
;4097166']Looks like I opened up a class debate and didn't even notice. I don't really think it matters.

People got my general point that Paul Kane is a normal, every day gadgey who loves the hibs and he's speaking for normal, every day hibs supporters like ourselves.

If you think you can do a better job then put your proposal forward!
Its all very good, but surely 'Kano the fan' should let the 'fans' no his intention. I know its early doors yet but as current things stand I would not want Paul Kane near the club. Nothing against the guy but running a pub is different to running a football club. I also don't want the club to go into more debt to help fund the purchase. I also dont want to pay a monthly DD in to help fund a takeover as I would rather put it in to the current setup with Dempster in control.

Suppose everything will come out in the end.

HUTCHYHIBBY
15-07-2014, 08:20 AM
Amazing that there are still people around going on about Kano running the club.

brian6-2
15-07-2014, 08:33 AM
My "source" tells me the proposal was hand written with crayons on the back of an old shopping list.

Seriously though, cannot for the life of me see STF selling up.

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 09:08 AM
Its all very good, but surely 'Kano the fan' should let the 'fans' no his intention. I know its early doors yet but as current things stand I would not want Paul Kane near the club. Nothing against the guy but running a pub is different to running a football club. I also don't want the club to go into more debt to help fund the purchase. I also dont want to pay a monthly DD in to help fund a takeover as I would rather put it in to the current setup with Dempster in control.

Suppose everything will come out in the end.

I thought the intentions of Kano / FH were well known by now. A change of ownership of the club to a model where fans own 51% .... The discussion has moved on to ......... A) Can that be achieved? ...... B) How will the club be run if it is?

As for the Kano has no idea coz he runs a pub / pubs pish I keep hearing: Anybody who has managed to keep pubs going in a climate where thousands close every year cant be that bad at running a business. In what way did running a building firm make Tom Hart fit to run a football club. Or a bookie like Kenny Waugh, or a man whose business was selling tyres?

David Murray owned a huge multi million pound business and Vlad Romanov owned a bank. Perhaps its better to have an honest publican than a dishonest or stupid business genius. Anyway, whatever the outcome of this Paul Kane will neither own or run Hibs.

For my part I would rather pay a monthly DD into a scheme which in the long term will make Hibernian FC and the people all over the world who support it one and the same thing. "We are Hibernian FC" wouldn't just be a song ..... It would be a statement of fact.

Lago
15-07-2014, 09:20 AM
Its all very good, but surely 'Kano the fan' should let the 'fans' no his intention. I know its early doors yet but as current things stand I would not want Paul Kane near the club. Nothing against the guy but running a pub is different to running a football club. I also don't want the club to go into more debt to help fund the purchase. I also dont want to pay a monthly DD in to help fund a takeover as I would rather put it in to the current setup with Dempster in control.

Suppose everything will come out in the end.

At last some one talking sense. This Paul Kane intiative totally lacks any transparency.

RIP
15-07-2014, 09:23 AM
At last some one talking sense. This Paul Kane intiative totally lacks any transparency.

Do you mean someone talking sense or someone who agrees with you?

What aspect of a Tom Farmer non-disclosure agreement do you not understand?

The secrecy is at the insistence of the owner

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 09:31 AM
At last some one talking sense. This Paul Kane intiative totally lacks any transparency.

In large part because of a gagging order demanded by STF and RP ....... Whether someone is talklng sense depends on your point of view I suppose.

RIP
15-07-2014, 09:36 AM
My "source" tells me the proposal was hand written with crayons on the back of an old shopping list.

Seriously though, cannot for the life of me see STF selling up.

If that is the case why have Petrie and Farmer spent the past nine months engaged in talks with various parties and looking at different models of ownership?

ian omand
15-07-2014, 09:42 AM
I thought the intentions of Kano / FH were well known by now. A change of ownership of the club to a model where fans own 51% .... The discussion has moved on to ......... A) Can that be achieved? ...... B) How will the club be run if it is?

As for the Kano has no idea coz he runs a pub / pubs pish I keep hearing: Anybody who has managed to keep pubs going in a climate where thousands close every year cant be that bad at running a business. In what way did running a building firm make Tom Hart fit to run a football club. Or a bookie like Kenny Waugh, or a man whose business was selling tyres?

David Murray owned a huge multi million pound business and Vlad Romanov owned a bank. Perhaps its better to have an honest publican than a dishonest or stupid business genius. Anyway, whatever the outcome of this Paul Kane will neither own or run Hibs.

For my part I would rather pay a monthly DD into a scheme which in the long term will make Hibernian FC and the people all over the world who support it one and the same thing. "We are Hibernian FC" wouldn't just be a song ..... It would be a statement of fact.

Absolutely spot on, get off Kano's back all those who seem to think he is beneath putting
together a plan to move our club forward.
It is not as though those experts in business and finance such as STF and Petrie
have been hugely successful in the running of the club over the past seven years or so.
Indeed this is STF's second relegation.

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 10:13 AM
My "source" tells me the proposal was hand written with crayons on the back of an old shopping list.

Seriously though, cannot for the life of me see STF selling up.

Perhaps STF doesn't have to sell up in the full sense of the term.

In the German model 49% of each club is up for grabs as it would be with Hibs in this scenario and that works very well over there.

For example percentages of many clubs are owned by local businesses, Addidas own 10% of Bayern Munich. Perhaps in our case Crabbies would be interested in holding a percentage of the club. Perhaps STF would be happy to retain his family's association with the club. In Germany the club president is elected by the members ..... It would be nice to think that the first ever club president elected by the members would be STF .... If he didnt want it the obvious choice would be Pat Stanton.

If the likes of Andy & Jamie Murray, Craig & Charlie Reid and Dougray Scott could be persuaded to be part owners of the 49% ... even 5% or less each, their international profile would be invaluable in attracting sponsors and other investment.

The more you look at it the possibilities for the future are endless and if done right very positive.

brian6-2
15-07-2014, 10:27 AM
Perhaps STF doesn't have to sell up in the full sense of the term.

In the German model 49% of each club is up for grabs as it would be with Hibs in this scenario and that works very well over there.

For example percentages of many clubs are owned by local businesses, Addidas own 10% of Bayern Munich. Perhaps in our case Crabbies would be interested in holding a percentage of the club. Perhaps STF would be happy to retain his family's association with the club. In Germany the club president is elected by the members ..... It would be nice to think that the first ever club president elected by the members would be STF .... If he didnt want it the obvious choice would be Pat Stanton.

If the likes of Andy & Jamie Murray, Craig & Charlie Reid and Dougray Scott could be persuaded to be part owners of the 49% ... even 5% or less each, their international profile would be invaluable in attracting sponsors and other investment.

The more you look at it the possibilities for the future are endless and if done right very positive.

Dont get me wrong i agree completely with the idea and if done correctly, by the right people, it works.

Lago
15-07-2014, 10:33 AM
In large part because of a gagging order demanded by STF and RP ....... Whether someone is talklng sense depends on your point of view I suppose.
I totally agree it does depend on your point of view, and that applies to both sides of the debate. Some of my concern lies in the fact that there appears to be a number, whether true or not, who would appear to have more information than the majotity. Also I fear there could be a head long rush into the new order with out due consideration of all the facts and possible out comes, just because it's new and will remove RP.
I will, if the Kane proposal, is sound and sustainable, fully support it because I want a strong competitive club to be here long after I've gone to the big ER in the sky.

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 10:58 AM
I totally agree it does depend on your point of view, and that applies to both sides of the debate. Some of my concern lies in the fact that there appears to be a number, whether true or not, who would appear to have more information than the majotity. Also I fear there could be a head long rush into the new order with out due consideration of all the facts and possible out comes, just because it's new and will remove RP.
I will, if the Kane proposal, is sound and sustainable, fully support it because I want a strong competitive club to be here long after I've gone to the big ER in the sky.

I guess that in any situation like this there will be certain folk closer to the action with more information than others, no matter how much we would prefer that not to be the case.

I highly doubt we are talking about a headlong rush here either. Everything has an element of risk, from this model to selling lock stock and barrel to a new owner we know little about. This is long past the Rod Petrie question. I do not think that he was used as an excuse by what has become 'Forever Hibernian' to make a pre planned move. I do think that he was the catalyst for their existence though.

This is not a new path to go down in reality ...... Its new to us, but over the North Sea there is a wealth of information, experience and expertise to tap into and learn from, something I hope Forever Hibernian will use to its fullest extent ..... In fact not to do so would be very foolish.

The Germans have proved up till now that the 51 / 49 model can work and is sustainable. Can it work here? ...... why not?

Keith_M
15-07-2014, 10:59 AM
.......

Seriously though, cannot for the life of me see STF selling up.


Can you see him finding the Potion of Eternal Life?

bigwheel
15-07-2014, 11:01 AM
There is nothing of real clarity in what's been outlined by the Forever Hibernian camp to make me consider supporting it. It's a high level outline, perhaps, at best, a set of principles. I await much more detail before I would have a view one way or the other. Equally, I wait with the same opinion on what Dempster will bring to the fans around they current boards view of the way forward. Then I'll form a view.

Whilst I like the boldness of Kano for being prepared to step forward and take a lead. No one else has! The content of his communications so far have been pretty unassured, lacking impact and come over more as a passionate fan, with a network. I want a leader of change with more than that. Someone who inspires me, drives new thinking and clear strategy, has deep capabilities and credibility, and has a history of driving businesses with the complexity of Hibs forward. I've not seen much of that from the takeover team yet. They need to step up their game. They don't have impending liquidation to mobilise support...they have to do it through strong impact and persuasion. I see much more of these business attributes in the team that Dempster is forming.

What I would dearly welcome, is for the two sides to sit down and look to bring the best of both. And both parties show us the really care about what's best for the club, rather than any individual or group ego's. Let's change the ownership model, taking away the majority share from Farmer, but also build on the new elements of the team already at the club.

Keith_M
15-07-2014, 11:08 AM
There has been no real canvassing of fans opinion of whether they would be willing to take part in a new joint ownership scheme from Kane's group. It may have been a better idea if he had canvassed the opinion of fans first, to see if they would be willing to do that.

The thing is, I'm not exactly sure as to what would be the best way to go about doing something like that. The only attempt recently to do something similar was on this very site, which led to widespread ridicule from a large number of posters.

brian6-2
15-07-2014, 11:21 AM
Can you see him finding the Potion of Eternal Life?

You clearly dont know STF as well as you make out, he's had that since the age of 3.

The_Horde
15-07-2014, 11:24 AM
Its all very good, but surely 'Kano the fan' should let the 'fans' no his intention. I know its early doors yet but as current things stand I would not want Paul Kane near the club. Nothing against the guy but running a pub is different to running a football club. I also don't want the club to go into more debt to help fund the purchase. I also dont want to pay a monthly DD in to help fund a takeover as I would rather put it in to the current setup with Dempster in control.

Suppose everything will come out in the end.

Kane has no intention of running the club personally.

Also, he won't be allowed to speak of the proposal as he'll have been made to sign an agreement before putting it forward.

Lago
15-07-2014, 11:27 AM
QUOTE NAE NOOKIE;4097349]I guess that in any situation like this there will be certain folk closer to the action with more information than others, no matter how much we would prefer that not to be the case.

I highly doubt we are talking about a headlong rush here either. Everything has an element of risk, from this model to selling lock stock and barrel to a new owner we know little about. This is long past the Rod Petrie question. I do not think that he was used as an excuse by what has become 'Forever Hibernian' to make a pre planned move. I do think that he was the catalyst for their existence though.

This is not a new path to go down in reality ...... Its new to us, but over the North Sea there is a wealth of information, experience and expertise to tap into and learn from, something I hope Forever Hibernian will use to its fullest extent ..... In fact not to do so would be very foolish.

The Germans have proved up till now that the 51 / 49 model can work and is sustainable. Can it work here? ...... why not?[/QUOTE]

There is much of what you say with which I agree, mainly that this is no longer about RP, he is to a degree an irrelevance in the greater scheme of things. I do worry however about this constant reference to the German model. We operate in a small league with limited access to external funding, which will limit the success of Hibs both locally and in Europe. At that point will the fan base be willing to continue funding through direct debits or will it be like the ST problem Hibs are currently experiencing, fans saying stuff this.
It's fine when your in a leaque where money is thrown at clubs (Man. Utd) £75mil per year shirt sponsorship, same big money in Germany, not in Scotland I'm afraid.

jdships
15-07-2014, 12:31 PM
If that is the case why have Petrie and Farmer spent the past nine months engaged in talks with various parties and looking at different models of ownership?

:thumbsup:
I understand from a friend who is a retired Accountant who specialised in Administration cases that Kano & Co's " Business Plan" didn't really stand up to close scrutiny and STF advised them so .
Can't add anything further as that was all that was said to me :rolleyes:

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 12:45 PM
There has been no real canvassing of fans opinion of whether they would be willing to take part in a new joint ownership scheme from Kane's group. It may have beena better idea if he had canvassed the opinion of fans first, to see if they would be willing to do that.

The thing is, I'm not exactly sure as to what would be the best way to go about doing something like that. The only attempt recently do something similar was on this very site, which led to widespread ridicule from a large number of posters.

Apart from a show of hands at the protest which cant apply to this situation you are correct. If the club were to allow FH access to the database which covers more fans than just ST holders a mailshot could be done. That would require cooperation from Hibs and perhaps even involve data protection issues. Other than that it would have to be done on line, which is open to all sorts of mischief making. Even H.Net or the Bounce cant be viewed as fully representative ..... though can be a reasonable guide to the fans thinking in the absence of other more scientific evidence.

The previous attempt you refer to, if its the one I'm thinking of, was treated with suspicion by many and derision by some, because folk thought to use H.Net for an opening gambit was strange and there was scepticism regarding the authenticity of the poster and what he was proposing ...... an accusation which cant be levelled at Forever Hibernian in my opinion.

If a poll was conducted on here for research purposes the question would have to be in two parts:

1) Is fan ownership of 51% of the club is something you agree with?

2) Would you be prepared to pay to be a member of Hibernian FC?

Just because you say no to 1 doesn't mean you couldn't say yes to 2 and vice versa of course.

Pray4Marc
15-07-2014, 12:57 PM
Iam happy for Sir Tom Farmer to keep ownership of the club, he is clearly trying to change our onfield issues with the appointment of Leanne Dempster and allowing her to change the structure of the footballing side of the club. We are in a financial sound position with Sir Tom Farmer.

No offence to Paul Kane but he's out of his depth imo and fan ownership is not the answer.

IWasThere2016
15-07-2014, 01:00 PM
Iam happy for Sir Tom Farmer to keep ownership of the club, he is clearly trying to change our onfield issues with the appointment of Leanne Dempster and allowing her to change the structure of the footballing side of the club. We are in a financial sound position with Sir Tom Farmer.

No offence to Paul Kane but he's out of his depth imo and fan ownership is not the answer.

You believe STF appointed LD? Why then do we need the 'conduit'?

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 01:13 PM
There is much of what you say with which I agree, mainly that this is no longer about RP, he is to a degree an irrelevance in the greater scheme of things. I do worry however about this constant reference to the German model. We operate in a small league with limited access to external funding, which will limit the success of Hibs both locally and in Europe. At that point will the fan base be willing to continue funding through direct debits or will it be like the ST problem Hibs are currently experiencing, fans saying stuff this.
It's fine when your in a leaque where money is thrown at clubs (Man. Utd) £75mil per year shirt sponsorship, same big money in Germany, not in Scotland I'm afraid.

Apples and Oranges Lago. Man Utd need a £75,000,000 shirt deal because they pay the likes of Wayne Rooney £200,000 per week and their domestic competition is Mega rich Man City and Chelsea. Over and above that the prize is the Champions league with Bayern Munich, Real Madrid etc which has nothing to do with Hibs or any other club outside of about ( lets be kind ) 15 clubs in Europe who will ever have a chance of winning it.

Hibs need enough finance to compete with our peers and hopefully one day win the cup or make the group stages of the Europa League. I don't think that it is impossible to achieve that kind of financial input under a fan ownership model, if we can attract the outside investment we need to go along with it.

As things stand we would be the first club in Scotland to operate in this way and its not outwith the bounds of possibility that many big companies would want to be associated with something new.

Juice-Terry
15-07-2014, 01:17 PM
:thumbsup:
I understand from a friend who is a retired Accountant who specialised in Administration cases that Kano & Co's " Business Plan" didn't really stand up to close scrutiny and STF advised them so .
Can't add anything further as that was all that was said to me :rolleyes:

That's no doubt because of the amount they offered.

Lago
15-07-2014, 01:24 PM
Apples and Oranges Lago Man Utd need a £75,000,000 shirt deal because they pay the likes of Wayne Rooney £200,000 per week and their domestic competition is Mega rich Man City and Chelsea. Over and above that the prize is the Champions league with Bayern Munich, Real Madrid etc which has nothing to do with Hibs or any other club outside of about ( lets be kind ) 15 clubs in Europe who will ever have a chance of winning it.

Hibs need enough finance to compete with our peers and hopefully one day win the cup or make the group stages of the Europa League. I don't think that it is impossible to achieve that kind of financial input under a fan ownership model, if we can attract the outside investment we need to go along with it.

As things stand we would be the first club in Scotland to operate in this way and its not outwith the bounds of possibility that many big companies would want to be associated with something new.

I think there are areas we agree on and many we don't. I will wait to see the detail of the proposal, thats where the devil will be, but what I dont want is the fan base to become split and bitter overthe coming months what ever the out come there is a mammoth rebuilding task ahead at Hibs.

--------
15-07-2014, 01:34 PM
QUOTE NAE NOOKIE;4097349]I guess that in any situation like this there will be certain folk closer to the action with more information than others, no matter how much we would prefer that not to be the case.

I highly doubt we are talking about a headlong rush here either. Everything has an element of risk, from this model to selling lock stock and barrel to a new owner we know little about. This is long past the Rod Petrie question. I do not think that he was used as an excuse by what has become 'Forever Hibernian' to make a pre planned move. I do think that he was the catalyst for their existence though.

This is not a new path to go down in reality ...... Its new to us, but over the North Sea there is a wealth of information, experience and expertise to tap into and learn from, something I hope Forever Hibernian will use to its fullest extent ..... In fact not to do so would be very foolish.

The Germans have proved up till now that the 51 / 49 model can work and is sustainable. Can it work here? ...... why not?

There is much of what you say with which I agree, mainly that this is no longer about RP, he is to a degree an irrelevance in the greater scheme of things. I do worry however about this constant reference to the German model. We operate in a small league with limited access to external funding, which will limit the success of Hibs both locally and in Europe. At that point will the fan base be willing to continue funding through direct debits or will it be like the ST problem Hibs are currently experiencing, fans saying stuff this.
It's fine when your in a leaque where money is thrown at clubs (Man. Utd) £75mil per year shirt sponsorship, same big money in Germany, not in Scotland I'm afraid.[/QUOTE]


Yup. :agree:

The differences between Hibs situation - operating in a small League, historically dominated by two teams much richer and stronger than the others, situated on the periphery of Europe and not even an independent member of the economic community of which we're part, probably mean that the German model's irrelevant to us.

(Actually, not only are we on the periphery of Europe, we're pretty effectively marginalised in terms of our place in the UK. This makes attracting finance and building relationships with European football as a whole a lot more difficult than for Germany, right at the heart of Europe, or even England, with their capital sitting conveniently at the north end of the Channel Tunnel.)

The countries we should be looking at are probably the Scandinavians like Norway and Sweden - Norway more than Sweden, probably, in terms of size and geography.

I'm beginning to think Scottish football in the future will have to piggy-back on the EPL. Scots will follow teams in the EPL - a lot of us are doing so already. Most people who post on this forum have a 'favourite' English team and follow them on Sky and BT Sports weekend by weekend. They also - mostly - will go to watch Hibs, if Hibs aren't playing like they were last season and the games are marketed better than they have been in the past.

This probably will mean that the club will have to accept the need to drop prices somewhat - £400 a season to watch dross really isn't going to see very well, and £50 a shirt for replica kit that doesn't please the fans isn't a hugely great idea either. But if the quality of the club merchandise is good, and the club do their market research properly, there's no reason why the shop can't be a better earner in the future than it is now.

And there's no reason that people who watch EPL matches on TV won't come along to ER to watch less important matches live and in the flesh. But I would expect that the matchday atmosphere and experience at ER and other Scottish grounds will have to change. Too much hate, too much violent and abusive language, too many people coming to matches (not just at ER, of course) to vent their frustrations and anger. But that's another subject, related, but too big to deal with here.

Besides, the Germans don't have an Old Firm. They have Bayern Munich, but they still seem to manage to distribute the revenue from TV and Leage/FA sponsorship deals a lot more fairly than the SPFL and SFA do. That has to change, and quickly. But I'm afraid I'm not very hopeful that there'll be any change here, so clubs like Hibs need to work VERY hard to maximise their own revenue and hiusband their own resources much better than they have hitherto.

It doesn't help that SFA and League seem to be caught in a vicious circle of head-hunting executives from England to run the game - the differences between the Scottish and English games are as massive as those between the Scottish and German games. We ight be better advised looking to countries like The Netherlands or France or the Scandinavians for managerial ideas.

Sorry to have gone on so long. You're absolutely right to suspect the "German model" as a modle for us here.

blackpoolhibs
15-07-2014, 01:51 PM
I think there are areas we agree on and many we don't. I will wait to see the detail of the proposal, thats where the devil will be, but what I dont want is the fan base to become split and bitter overthe coming months what ever the out come there is a mammoth rebuilding task ahead at Hibs.

All because we have been run into the ground under the super safe guidance of Rod Petrie acting on behalf of STF. I often wonder just how all these other clubs have managed without those two running their clubs?

And then i wake up and realise most do it better than we do, and dont get themselves relegated.

This next bit does not include you, but we all need to wait and see just what the proposals are, but we dont need all the snidey remarks like the use of crayons, what Kano is wearing or indeed his accent. None of us know what been on the table yet, or even who wants to be involved.

--------
15-07-2014, 02:04 PM
All because we have been run into the ground under the super safe guidance of Rod Petrie acting on behalf of STF. I often wonder just how all these other clubs have managed without those two running their clubs?

And then i wake up and realise most do it better than we do, and dont get themselves relegated.

This next bit does not include you, but we all need to wait and see just what the proposals are, but we dont need all the snidey remarks like the use of crayons, what Kano is wearing or indeed his accent. None of us know what been on the table yet, or even who wants to be involved.


I've come to the settled conclusion that Farmer and Petrie's "sound financial stewardship" is a myth. One Hibs supporters have swallowed uncritically for far too long.

They've been running the club like a business. It's not a business, it's a football club. There are any number of differences between the two. Not least that the bottom line at a football club isn't the balancing of the accounts, but the position of the team in the league. That's not to advocate spending money we don't have; I just don't believe STF and RP have been getting anything like the best team available for the money they've been reluctantly devoting to that team.

What we need in charge at Hibs are people who will run Hibs as a football club, and do so in a thoughtful and business-like manner. This is NOT the same as running the club like a business.

So when I hear that STF didn't reckon that Paul Kane's proposal was acceptable, I'm neither impressed nor convinced. That's not to say that PK should be the guy to take over. Just that after the last 7-8 years at ER, neither STF nor RP are in any position to criticise anyone else's proposals for the running of the club.

And when people start with the comments about Paul's shirt, or his sweater, or his accent, or making like he's writing his business plan with crayons - all that tells me is that the people doing it don't like PK but are having trouble finding credible reasons for that dislike.

Hate to say it, BH, but more of us should have been listening to you a bit more attentively in the past few years.

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 02:06 PM
Iam happy for Sir Tom Farmer to keep ownership of the club, he is clearly trying to change our onfield issues with the appointment of Leanne Dempster and allowing her to change the structure of the footballing side of the club. We are in a financial sound position with Sir Tom Farmer.

No offence to Paul Kane but he's out of his depth imo and fan ownership is not the answer.

It appears to me that the on field issues this club has suffered from for 7 years were treated as an afterthough by those running it until those issues finally reared up and bit them on the arse, in spite of all the signs pointing to eventual catastrophe for the last 3 seasons. Their failure to dig deep in at least an attempt to solve our goalscoring issues in January was bloody criminal ......... I for one am fed up paying good money and driving a 100 mile round trip to watch a club who's owner and chairman care less about its on field fortunes than I do.

I want the club to be owned by those who shut the stable door before the horse has bolted ... not those who look at its sticking out ribs and wobbly legs and congratulate themselves on how much they have saved on straw.

On what evidence have you formulated your opinion that Paul Kane is out of his depth, because he says Leif instead of Leith? The closest I've ever been to him is having a pish in the Tor bogs at the same time as he was, which probably means I know him better than you. There are other people involved with FH other than Paul Kane, including I believe a guy who was a big hitter with the huge Deutsche Bank .... I doubt he will be out of his depth.

There is evidence from elsewhere that fan ownership can very much be the answer. To be pedantic we are talking about majority fan ownership, which leaves the door open for other investment.

IWasThere2016
15-07-2014, 02:06 PM
I've come to the settled conclusion that Farmer and Petrie's "sound financial stewardship" is a myth. One SOME Hibs supporters have swallowed uncritically for far too long.

They've been running the club like a business. It's not a business, it's a football club. There are any number of differences between the two. Not least that the bottom line at a football club isn't the balancing of the accounts, but the position of the team in the league. That's not to advocate spending money we don't have; I just don't believe STF and RP have been getting anything like the best team available for the money they've been reluctantly devoting to that team.

What we need in charge at Hibs are people who will run Hibs as a football club, and do so in a thoughtful and business-like manner. This is NOT the same as running the club like a business.

So when I hear that STF didn't reckon that Paul Kane's proposal was acceptable, I'm neither impressed nor convinced. That's not to say that PK should be the guy to take over. Just that after the last 7-8 years at ER, neither STF nor RP are in any position to criticise anyone else's proposals for the running of the club.

Well said Doddie. I have added a slight change with SOME above :wink:

--------
15-07-2014, 02:10 PM
Well said Doddie. I have added a slight change with SOME above :wink:


I accept your amendment and endorse it. I should not make generalisations about the whole Hibs support. :devil:

NAE NOOKIE
15-07-2014, 02:14 PM
I've come to the settled conclusion that Farmer and Petrie's "sound financial stewardship" is a myth. One Hibs supporters have swallowed uncritically for far too long.

They've been running the club like a business. It's not a business, it's a football club. There are any number of differences between the two. Not least that the bottom line at a football club isn't the balancing of the accounts, but the position of the team in the league. That's not to advocate spending money we don't have; I just don't believe STF and RP have been getting anything like the best team available for the money they've been reluctantly devoting to that team.

What we need in charge at Hibs are people who will run Hibs as a football club, and do so in a thoughtful and business-like manner. This is NOT the same as running the club like a business.

So when I hear that STF didn't reckon that Paul Kane's proposal was acceptable, I'm neither impressed nor convinced. That's not to say that PK should be the guy to take over. Just that after the last 7-8 years at ER, neither STF nor RP are in any position to criticise anyone else's proposals for the running of the club.

And when people start with the comments about Paul's shirt, or his sweater, or his accent, or making like he's writing his business plan with crayons - all that tells me is that the people doing it don't like PK but are having trouble finding credible reasons for that dislike.

Hate to say it, BH, but more of us should have been listening to you a bit more attentively in the past few years.

This post is so good it should be set to music followed by a fireworks display http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

bigwheel
15-07-2014, 02:15 PM
All because we have been run into the ground under the super safe guidance of Rod Petrie acting on behalf of STF. I often wonder just how all these other clubs have managed without those two running their clubs?

And then i wake up and realise most do it better than we do, and dont get themselves relegated.

This next bit does not include you, but we all need to wait and see just what the proposals are, but we dont need all the snidey remarks like the use of crayons, what Kano is wearing or indeed his accent. None of us know what been on the table yet, or even who wants to be involved.

Personally, I don't care what Kano wears or how he speaks, but I do care about "what" he says...and up until now it is neither particularly convincing nor compelling. Nobody disputes the need for significant change, Forever Hibernian need to convince many that they are the right change for our club. They need to up their game big time.

Kaiser1962
15-07-2014, 02:24 PM
That's no doubt because of the amount they offered.

There is doubt because we don't know how much was offered or how much he wants. The only figures I have seen have been 49% and 51%, nothing else.

IWasThere2016
15-07-2014, 02:27 PM
I accept your amendment and endorse it. I should not make generalisations about the whole Hibs support. :devil:

:greengrin

blackpoolhibs
15-07-2014, 02:27 PM
Personally, I don't care what Kano wears or how he speaks, but I do care about "what" he says...and up until now it is neither particularly convincing nor compelling. Nobody disputes the need for significant change, Forever Hibernian need to convince many that they are the right change for our club. They need to up their game big time.

I dont know if what he has to say now or even in the future will be the right thing for our club, but i'm sure as hell convinced the people who have been running it and do own the club are not.

We are putting a lot of faith in Dempster, and her ability to get us out of this sorry mess we are in. I'd be more happy and confident if she did it with another owner and Petrie out the door too.

Lago
15-07-2014, 02:30 PM
All because we have been run into the ground under the super safe guidamake of Rod Petrie acting on behalf of STF. I often wonder just how all these other clubs have managed without those two running their clubs?

And then i wake up and realise most do it better than we do, and dont get themselves relegated.

This next bit does not include you, but we all need to wait and see just what the proposals are, but we dont need all the snidey remarks like the use of crayons, what Kano is wearing or indeed his accent. None of us know what been on the table yet, or even who wants to be involved.

Gosh now I am a bit worried. I agree with you, and you excluded me from your 3rd para.must be doing something right, the point you make is exactly mine, that name calling and sarcasm will will take over what untill now has been 90% measured and sensible debate. Long may it last.

Gerard
15-07-2014, 02:33 PM
I dont know if what he has to say now or even in the future will be the right thing for our club, but i'm sure as hell convinced the people who have been running it and do own the club are not.

We are putting a lot of faith in Dempster, and her ability to get us out of this sorry mess we are in. I'd be more happy and confident if she did it with another owner and Petrie out the door too.

I think that a new owner or owners and for Mr P to stand down is the right way to go.:wink:

Kaiser1962
15-07-2014, 02:40 PM
They've been running the club like a business. It's not a business, it's a football club. There are any number of differences between the two. Not least that the bottom line at a football club isn't the balancing of the accounts, but the position of the team in the league.


By those criteria Rangers are/were (depending on your viewpoint) the most successful Football Club in history.

blackpoolhibs
15-07-2014, 02:43 PM
By those criteria Rangers are/were (depending on your viewpoint) the most successful Football Club in history.

That's the problem on here, there is no middle ground when discussing how Hibs should be run. Its either Petrie's and Famers way or its Leeds Portsmouth Hearts or Rangers way, these are the only other options it appears.

Kaiser1962
15-07-2014, 02:58 PM
That's the problem on here, there is no middle ground when discussing how Hibs should be run. Its either Petrie's and Famers way or its Leeds Portsmouth Hearts or Rangers way, these are the only other options it appears.

The statement was that

"Not least that the bottom line at a football club isn't the balancing of the accounts, but the position of the team in the league."

Are Rangers not the most successful Scottish Club ever?

Clearly there is a balance to be had but who decides where that line is?