Media nonsense about Hibs manager 'Casualty Rate'

[Shore Thing]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

[PeterboroHibee]

It is nonsense to suggest we have a particularly high turnover of managers compared to any club. In modern football no manager is in a post for any significant period of time. If you look at the English football for example, only 12 managers in the top 4 leagues have been in position more than 3 years, which leaves 80 clubs who have changed managers within the last 3 years...

It would be nice if we had that sort of stability, as the constant changing of squads combined with being badly run at the top has led us to the position we are in, but it just doesnt really happen these days.

[kev1875]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

Exactly the kind of coverage which has supporters trying to embed coins into the skull of those providing it. Meanwhile, don't pay businesses, charities and taxpayers of another country, and rip them off to the tune of £80 million and they will paint you as the victims, and the heroes when you get away with it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well clearly changing the manager every season had nothing to do with the state we find ourselves in.

[Islington Hibs]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

Interesting stat and quite surprising. Doesn't really put any of the clubs in a good light at all. I for one hope we can have stability both of manager and players.

Given the Petrie inspired cock-up's it is not that suprising the press are having a pop but I do agree few journo's are very sympathetic to Hibs. It cannot be good for football clubs to have such instability.

[Shore Thing]

Well clearly changing the manager every season had nothing to do with the state we find ourselves in.

The two have gone hand in hand, along with other problems throughout the club.
I'm hopeful that these are now being addressed.

I suppose the lazy media are going to pick up on any half-story and sell it as FACT. As long as we all know that it's a bullsh*t line that they keep regurgitating then I suppose it doesn't matter what they say.

Success on the pitch would give them something new to talk about!

[Thecat23]

Simple answer..

If we had appointed the right person to start with it wouldn't be near that number.

[Dashing Bob S]

We have a very low turnover at senior level in the boardroom - that's where the problem has been.

[MB62]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

They also give the impression that all our managers have been SACKED, which simply is not the case.
Fenlon and Collins left on their own accord, they were NOT sacked.
Mixu, I believe, left by mutual consent (ok, we all know what that really means)
McLeish and Mowbray were head hunted by other clubs, they were NOT sacked

Of the others remaining, they should have been shot NOT sacked.

[Posh Swanny]

They also give the impression that all our managers have been SACKED, which simply is not the case.
Fenlon and Collins left on their own accord, they were NOT sacked.
Mixu, I believe, left by mutual consent (ok, we all know what that really means)
McLeish and Mowbray were head hunted by other clubs, they were NOT sacked

Of the others remaining, they should have been shot NOT sacked.

Was Williamson not headhunted by Plymouth too?

[ekhibee]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!
Sorry but even the stats you quoted are wrong. Dundee Utd have only had 8 managers unless u count Hegarty and Dodds who were both caretaker managers over that period, and Aberdeen have only had 6 unless you include Gardner Speirs and Neil Simpson/Cooper who were also caretakers for 1 game each. Like you I'm not one of these raincoats that spends their time digging up useless facts, but our turnover of managers is still poor, sadly there's no disguising it.

[Ozyhibby]

I think that the high turnover in managers is here to stay regardless of how well Stubbs does. And it will remain the same for all clubs.
What is important is the new set up is designed to seemlessly transition from one head coach to the next.

[Turkish Green]

The weegia are still living in the past. If you adopt LD's continental-style Head Coach model then we can expect to switch coaches on a season-by-season basis. The DOF does the bulk of the player recruitment and sets out the playing style. The coach does just that: coach. All that is missing at ER is a DOF, but it looks like LD is filling this role herself.

If Stubbs lasts 2 seasons before he moves on then I'll be chuffed.

[Shore Thing]

Sorry but even the stats you quoted are wrong. Dundee Utd have only had 8 managers unless u count Hegarty and Dodds who were both caretaker managers over that period

I'd still include Hegarty, who had 18 games. Otherwise I'm claiming Butcher was just a caretaker manager for Hibs :wink:

I do agree though that things might have been different if change had been made at boardroom level sooner.

Fingers crossed that the new set up provides more continuity. I'm glad as well, that for the first time in years we have got a new manager in BEFORE the start of the season - AND the previous manager's stop-gap players have mostly moved on.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Hibs fans say Petrie must go because he has been through too many managers - Barry!
Journalists say Hibs have gone through too many managers - *******s!

You get so full of fear you can't follow their rules.

[PatHead]

Was Williamson not headhunted by Plymouth too?

Was sure he was told his contract was not being renewed before Plymouth approached him. But may be wrong.

[MB62]

Was sure he was told his contract was not being renewed before Plymouth approached him. But may be wrong.

He was. Not sacked as such, just given a years' notice that his contract would not be re-newed.

[Smartie]

I think our turnover of managers, for whatever reason they have left, is absolutely shameful and we deserve to be pilloried in the press.

We took a hard time for our guff football in the press last year and folk were on here complaining about it bing the fault of the papers/ Sportscene/ whoever. The fact was, we were honking and deserved every last bit of criticism that came our way.

If we hold on to Stubbs for longer and build a team that plays well then we'll get the praise that goes with it. We'll have to earn it but we will deserve it.

A bout of "whataboutery" where we discuss the turnover of managers at other clubs like Aberdeen and Dundee United (who have been as unimpressive as we have over the period in question, if not more, albeit they have both picked up recently) wildly misses the point imo.

Whether our failed succession of managers is down to the managers being the wrong appointment and not being good enough or not backed adequately is another argument, but I'm inclined to agree with the poster above who states that it's the slow turnover in the boardroom that contributes most to our current predicament.

[lord bunberry]

He was. Not sacked as such, just given a years' notice that his contract would not be re-newed.

I think it was on the morning of the goc last minute winner against that mob that he was given his notice

[RP1875]

They also give the impression that all our managers have been SACKED, which simply is not the case.
Fenlon and Collins left on their own accord, they were NOT sacked.
Mixu, I believe, left by mutual consent (ok, we all know what that really means)
McLeish and Mowbray were head hunted by other clubs, they were NOT sacked

Of the others remaining, they should have been shot NOT sacked.


Mixu resigned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/5408828/Mixu-Paatelainen-resigns-as-Hibs-manager.html

[--------]

We have a very low turnover at senior level in the boardroom - that's where the problem has been.


As you say indeed, Bob. :agree:

[weonlywon6-2]

We have had a high turn over of managers which i hate to think must have cost the club.
Hopefully alan stubbs will settle thi gs and we get a good few years out of him

[ekhibee]

I'd still include Hegarty, who had 18 games. Otherwise I'm claiming Butcher was just a caretaker manager for Hibs :wink:

I do agree though that things might have been different if change had been made at boardroom level sooner.

Fingers crossed that the new set up provides more continuity. I'm glad as well, that for the first time in years we have got a new manager in BEFORE the start of the season - AND the previous manager's stop-gap players have mostly moved on.
Yeh, totally agree, the timing was important as far as getting a new manager in is concerned. Onwards and upwards hopefully!

[Sumner]

As Stubbs stood for photos that muppet Phil Goodlad was spouting off to camera asking how long will he last with the turnover here.. very disrespectful.. for a Northern donkey faced twat of the highest order

[emerald green]

Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

This guy claims to be a Hibs supporter, but I think he really wants to be a Yam.

[RP1875]

Since 2000 fair enough but recently out turn around and choices of managers have been frankly shocking.

We got relegated because of the downward spiral the club has had with managers. What do you expect? It would be different if we where top 6 SPL sacking managers because there's no Europe but were in the first division and all the former managers since Mowbray have played a collective part in this. I would excuse Collins and Mixu and even Yogi having stokes sold end of window. Everyone since then has been a complete disaster.

[Sir David Gray]

Since Mowbray was appointed in May 2004, we've had eight managers.

The teams in next season's Premiership and Championship have had the following number of managers in that time;

Aberdeen - 4
Celtic - 5
Dundee - 8
Dundee Utd - 6
Hamilton - 3
Inverness CT - 6
Kilmarnock - 5
Motherwell - 6
Partick Thistle - 5
Ross County - 8
St Johnstone - 5
St Mirren - 3

Alloa - 3
Cowdenbeath - 8
Dumbarton - 6
Falkirk - 4
Hearts - 13
Hibs - 8
Livingston - 12
Queen of the South - 7
Raith Rovers - 5
Sevco - 1 (4 if you include the previous club as well)

So out of the top two leagues in Scotland, only Hearts and Livingston have had more permanent managers than us in the last 10 years.

[lEXO]

Simple answer..

If we had appointed the right person to start with it wouldn't be near that number.

Spot on.

[Liberal Hibby]

Yup the revolving door in the manager's office has to stop. But that I fear means we as fans need to be a wee bit more patient.

[RP1875]

Yup the revolving door in the manager's office has to stop. But that I fear means we as fans need to be a wee bit more patient.

Mate, with all due respect, our support is the most patient in world football. From what we had in 2006-07 to be patient the training ground and stadium is complete when our team was being ripped appart. To Calderwood, Fenlon, that final, malmo, relegation, im not sure how more patient you want people to be? We're a brilliant support having gone through all of that.

Even before then, last time we went down we came in numbers. Our support in general, for all the **** the club has put us through is nothing more than outstanding.

[Tinribs]

To be fair and honest, with Celtic's budget most of us could win the league as a manager. As for us, and other clubs working within a budget maybe 10 times smaller, we need a pro who knows what he is doing. He also needs good contacts, and be seen as a person who can bring on prospects from bigger clubs who loan us players.

As for the media, they are slightly biased (lol), towards the west of the country, they see all the manager stuff as being fun to write a few paragraphs about and laugh at the rest of the Clubs. **** them all.

[Albion Hibs]

Welcome Alan Stubbs. I wish you a long and successful time at Hibs.

I'm sick of the media bleating on about the turnover of Hibs managers so incredibly high. It's not. It's fairly average for the SPFL.
Out of interest, I had a quick look on Wikipedia.

Since the millennium Hibs have now had 10 managers.
Dundee Utd 10
Aberdeen 8
and those clowns across the city have had... wait for it... 20 (Twenty!) - albeit 6 of them were caretaker managers.

Celtic have had less, but then with their budget they can afford to buy the manager's first choice players, and experience more 'success' so the fans stay 'happier' with their manager.

I got bored after checking the first few, I'm not that much of a statto.

Anyway, bring on the new Hibee dawn! Clowns like Aidan Smith in todays Hootsmon, and the BBC, can GTF!

True, but the media in this country love nothing more than to slate the scottish game, players, managers and clubs...then turn round and have a go at attendances, is it any wonder when all they do is make front page headlines out of negative stats that they actively seek out.

[RIP]

The high turnover of managers at Hibs has but one cause

Every single one worked for the worst boss in the SPL.

A good boss creates a vision. After recruiting you they create an environment for you to succeed, provide you with the staff you need, motivate you, mentor you, inspire you and manage your performance.

They set high standards and make sure you match them.

The simple fact is that our Chairman demonstrates none of these leadership and man-management qualities. For these failures he has to accept responsibility and leave.

[mikewynne]

Since Mowbray was appointed in May 2004, we've had eight managers.

The teams in next season's Premiership and Championship have had the following number of managers in that time;

Aberdeen - 4
Celtic - 5
Dundee - 8
Dundee Utd - 6
Hamilton - 3
Inverness CT - 6
Kilmarnock - 5
Motherwell - 6
Partick Thistle - 5
Ross County - 8
St Johnstone - 5
St Mirren - 3

Alloa - 3
Cowdenbeath - 8
Dumbarton - 6
Falkirk - 4
Hearts - 13
Hibs - 8
Livingston - 12
Queen of the South - 7
Raith Rovers - 5
Sevco - 1 (4 if you include the previous club as well)

So out of the top two leagues in Scotland, only Hearts and Livingston have had more permanent managers than us in the last 10 years.

Thanks for this. I really think it's since Mowbray that we've developed this (justifiably bad) reputation.

[Sumner]

The high turnover of managers at Hibs has but one cause

Every single one worked for the worst boss in the SPL.

A good boss creates a vision. After recruiting you they create an environment for you to succeed, provide you with the staff you need, motivate you, mentor you, inspire you and manage your performance.

They set high standards and make sure you match them.

The simple fact is that our Chairman demonstrates none of these leadership and man-management qualities. For these failures he has to accept responsibility and leave.

100% correct. The Tache must go.

[SouthamptonHibs]

I think we should give Stubbs our full backing and judge him after the derby on 16th August.
If Hibs loose this game he should be punted.
Hibs should Bring in a culture that loosing derby' s is unacceptable = price to pay is your job.

After derby defeat least we could have a laugh about who our next manager would be....

[Sumner]

The high turnover of managers at Hibs has but one cause

Every single one worked for the worst boss in the SPL.

A good boss creates a vision. After recruiting you they create an environment for you to succeed, provide you with the staff you need, motivate you, mentor you, inspire you and manage your performance.

They set high standards and make sure you match them.

The simple fact is that our Chairman demonstrates none of these leadership and man-management qualities. For these failures he has to accept responsibility and leave.

100% correct. The Tache must go.

[IanM]

I think we should give Stubbs our full backing and judge him after the derby on 16th August.
If Hibs loose this game he should be punted.
Hibs should Bring in a culture that loosing derby' s is unacceptable = price to pay is your job.

After derby defeat least we could have a laugh about who our next manager would be....

Losing a derby is unacceptable but the only punishment should be make sure we don't lose the next.. We'd go through 4 managers a season with your plan!

[The Falcon]

Simple answer..

If we had appointed the right person to start with it wouldn't be near that number.


I think that when all clubs appoint the manager, whoever they are, they believe it to be the right person.

[Kaiser1962]

Well clearly changing the manager every season had nothing to do with the state we find ourselves in.

A lot of folk trying it.

Scottish league managers in post

Less than one year = 22
one to two years = 12
two to three years = 4
three to four years = 3
More than four = 1

[Thecat23]

I think that when all clubs appoint the manager, whoever they are, they believe it to be the right person.

Yeah and it shows how ridiculously bad he was at that!! Maybe after messing up the second or third time he'd have left it.


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[The Falcon]

Yeah and it shows how ridiculously bad he was at that!! Maybe after messing up the second or third time he'd have left it.


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From the stats above your post more than half the Scottish senior clubs have had a manager in place for under a year and over 80% less than two years.

It would seem that the people that can pick managers are not running football clubs.

[Thecat23]

I'm not fussed about other clubs. I'm interested in my club. We have went through far to many duds and we know who's fault that is.

I'm hopeful LD though knows more about the football side than the clown who was dealing with it before her!


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[emerald green]

The high turnover of managers at Hibs has but one cause

Every single one worked for the worst boss in the SPL.

A good boss creates a vision. After recruiting you they create an environment for you to succeed, provide you with the staff you need, motivate you, mentor you, inspire you and manage your performance.

They set high standards and make sure you match them.

The simple fact is that our Chairman demonstrates none of these leadership and man-management qualities. For these failures he has to accept responsibility and leave.

:agree: :top marks

[Hibercelona]

I wonder what our manager casualty rate would have been had we of gotten rid of managers when they deserved to go, instead of holding onto them longer out of desperation.

The casualty rate doesn't tell you much, as some clubs will tolerate poor managerial performances for longer than other clubs.