Ryan Mcgivern on his way

[Golden Bear]

You reap what you sow , supporters have eyes in their heads and do not like being treated as mugs.

[BSEJVT]

Seems like I'm in a minority of 1 but I'm appalled at the abuse being handed out to RM here. Without doubt he had a terrible season, not many players didn't, but I think our opinions of him are influenced by our original high expectations. At no stage however did I think he was shirking or not giving his all for Hibs. In a season where nearly every player was hiding & treating the ball like a hot potato he showed up more often than most. In the last game, either he's an Oscar winning actor or he was devastated. I've been following Hibs for 60 years, & last season was worse than conceding 18 goals in 3 finals to Celtc, our prior 2 relegations & other more recent games. However, a torrent of abuse to a young man who's already had many challenges in his career does not, IMO, reflect well on this board & remember, at present AFAIK he remains a Hibs player.

To be honest I think you could substitute nearly every player on the books for RM into this thread and get a similar if slightly less vociferous response.

The current level of emotions ranging from disconnected to hatred of the current and recent playing staff at ER is IMO one of our biggest problems.

Even Leigh had his detractors.

I honestly didn't rate RM that much, but lots of people here need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Scottish football has deteriorated massively in last 20 years and continues to do so.

Consequently the standard of player and standard of professional we are able to attract has done too.

People could save themselves a lot of angst and the club and it's players a lot of grief by either accepting times have changed or just stop ranting over it.

Oh and by the way it's going to continue to get worse in the short term and will eventually bottom out somewhere around English Div 2.

Maybe in 50 years time when everyone who saw us in the days of Sauzee or Mowbray's team has died off and expectations are a bit more realistic, we can get back to loving and supporting the club and feeling something other than contempt at its players.

Sadly I won't be here to see it, but if the whole supporting Hibs experience continues to be as negative as it has been the last few years I won't be seeing that much longer either.

[hihohibby]

Agreed. The latter 2 have been a consistent part of the last 5 years hibs teams. Simply not good enough I'm afraid trying hard just isn't enough.

I 100% agree with this statement. Mediocrity is what we get with both Stevenson and Hanlon, honest effort, but mediocrity. Better quality and game-changing players are what we need now.

[snooky]

I 100% agree with this statement. Mediocrity is what we get with both Stevenson and Hanlon, honest effort, but mediocrity. Better quality and game-changing players are what we need now.

It's not the mediocre players that's the problem, it's the crap ones.
Being realistic, we'll never have a team of superstars so some of the team will always be mediocre. I can live with that.
Let's get rid of the rubbish. I sure an average player would up his game if he was playing alongside a player with some talent and class.

[Baader]

Talent and effort, as we all know, are two different things. Lack of the former is understandable. Lack of the latter, unforgivable.

[SanFranHibs]

Seems like I'm in a minority of 1 but I'm appalled at the abuse being handed out to RM here. Without doubt he had a terrible season, not many players didn't, but I think our opinions of him are influenced by our original high expectations. At no stage however did I think he was shirking or not giving his all for Hibs. In a season where nearly every player was hiding & treating the ball like a hot potato he showed up more often than most. In the last game, either he's an Oscar winning actor or he was devastated. I've been following Hibs for 60 years, & last season was worse than conceding 18 goals in 3 finals to Celtc, our prior 2 relegations & other more recent games. However, a torrent of abuse to a young man who's already had many challenges in his career does not, IMO, reflect well on this board & remember, at present AFAIK he remains a Hibs player.

but not alone.

Another poster opened his posting saying that RM steadily declined at Hibs but I don't think he appreciated the importance of his remark. RM is certainly not alone in this category. Seems that most of our players and coaching staff could be similarly assessed. Something is rotten in the State of Hibernian. Just about everyone has under performed at Hibs in the past few years....if they were here long enough to start a steady decline.

Not to say that all our ex players are setting the football world on fire but look at Spoonie at St. Johnstone, MAC at Hamilton, Donaldson signing for Birmingham, Rankin playing well for Dundee Utd....all players who were not 'Hibs Class'. Time we all accepted these players ARE or WERE Hibs class, at least in the recent setup. It is Hibs that went out and signed these players. Not the players who signed Hibs. Perhaps this is an endorsement of LD's quality over quantity strategy. We certainly have been subject to quantity over quality. However, I tihnk we must also accept that most, if not all, the players we have signed are better than what we got from them and I do not think it was a lack of committment or effort. Something is wrong in the State of Hibernian. We have hounded players out, managers out and yet the slide continued. Not RM's fault alone or in league with Nelson. We have had a lot of scapegoat candidates in the past few years including RP, who I still think has proven only that he can sell our best players. All pointless now.

Without trying to be too flowery we must hope that our predicament leads to a better tomorrow, which one might think is not too optimistic given last seasons debacle. However, I am sure we all had similar feelings last summer.

Let's hope. I am.

:flag:

[trev the hat]

Hey bud, what was our bet again? Not being funny but I can't mind and can't remember the thread lol. Was it about Butcher going?

Hey Cat i'm glad to say you won :-)
Seriously yes I will be buying 2 KFK tickets (ie 1 kid 1 carer)
We did say 2 but as you need a carer too it's basically only 1 ticket.
Unless that is you wanna match me ? :-)
I'm heading out of Southampton today for 2wk hol & will settle with Suzy when I get back, Suzy if you read this please drop me a pm.
This is one bet I'm more than happy to lose.
Ps how's your leg, did you not have an op recently ? Hope it's on the mend & maybe catch a beer at Livi game if your about.

[Thecat23]

Hey Cat i'm glad to say you won :-)
Seriously yes I will be buying 2 KFK tickets (ie 1 kid 1 carer)
We did say 2 but as you need a carer too it's basically only 1 ticket.
Unless that is you wanna match me ? :-)
I'm heading out of Southampton today for 2wk hol & will settle with Suzy when I get back, Suzy if you read this please drop me a pm.
This is one bet I'm more than happy to lose.
Ps how's your leg, did you not have an op recently ? Hope it's on the mend & maybe catch a beer at Livi game if your about.

Mate I'll be more than happy to also buy one. That way everyone is a winner. I'm booking two hols this month but last day of this month I'll drop Suzy a pm and sort out getting the cash to her.

I'll be at the Livi game so yeah be good to grab a beer. Will drop you a pm nearer the time.

Yeah I did, and it went really well and hopefully that's the last one. Thanks for asking appreciate that mate. Take it easy and enjoy the holiday :) and I'll speak to you soon!

[trev the hat]

Gentleman Cat (big thumbs up)
I'll do likewise if i hear from Suzy & can get a signal while at sea.
Speak soon mate

[leggeto]

Had his good games, unfortunately more bad than good, wish him luck but

[Nevi_SOL]

We should be aiming higher than Ryan McGivern. Attitude was his problem.
But......

If Stubbs can get the best out of him I'll gladly give the boy another chance. Clean slate and all that

[Turkish Green]

Here's the thing with McGivern; although he came through the Man City youth system and was with them for 6 years yet he only ever made 1 sub appearance for their 1st team (20 min in a 5-0 home gubbing of Sunderland in 2011). In his 6 years with City he was loaned out 6 times: Morecambe (2009), Leicester (2010), Walsall (2011), Palace (2012), Bristol City (2012) and finally Hibs (2013). He is still only 24, so he may not have found his level, but IMO it is not at Hibs.

He is prone to costly errors at the wrong time, as his lapse to let Boyd score in the last game in the league. Defensive errors cost Hibs games last season especially when the strikers were not striking.

[lord bunberry]

To be honest I think you could substitute nearly every player on the books for RM into this thread and get a similar if slightly less vociferous response.

The current level of emotions ranging from disconnected to hatred of the current and recent playing staff at ER is IMO one of our biggest problems.

Even Leigh had his detractors.

I honestly didn't rate RM that much, but lots of people here need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Scottish football has deteriorated massively in last 20 years and continues to do so.

Consequently the standard of player and standard of professional we are able to attract has done too.

People could save themselves a lot of angst and the club and it's players a lot of grief by either accepting times have changed or just stop ranting over it.

Oh and by the way it's going to continue to get worse in the short term and will eventually bottom out somewhere around English Div 2.

Maybe in 50 years time when everyone who saw us in the days of Sauzee or Mowbray's team has died off and expectations are a bit more realistic, we can get back to loving and supporting the club and feeling something other than contempt at its players.

Sadly I won't be here to see it, but if the whole supporting Hibs experience continues to be as negative as it has been the last few years I won't be seeing that much longer either.
I don't agree with you that the standard of professional we can expect at hibs has to decline with the amount of money we are paying. I would have thought that the vast majority of professional football players are dedicated to being as good as they can, most of them won't be out getting drunk during the week, they will be training hard and looking after themselves.
You say supporting hibs is a negative expirience(which is true at the moment) but your post is one of the most negative things I've read on here for a while. Things are pretty bad for us right now but we've just brought in a new manager, a new head of football operations, a new CEO and we're looking to engage the local community and bring back some pride and success to hibs. Every cloud has a silver lining, let's hope the last 7 years of utter dross will be the catalyst for the change that's been needed for a long time.

[basehibby]

Seems like I'm in a minority of 1 but I'm appalled at the abuse being handed out to RM here. Without doubt he had a terrible season, not many players didn't, but I think our opinions of him are influenced by our original high expectations. At no stage however did I think he was shirking or not giving his all for Hibs. In a season where nearly every player was hiding & treating the ball like a hot potato he showed up more often than most. In the last game, either he's an Oscar winning actor or he was devastated. I've been following Hibs for 60 years, & last season was worse than conceding 18 goals in 3 finals to Celtc, our prior 2 relegations & other more recent games. However, a torrent of abuse to a young man who's already had many challenges in his career does not, IMO, reflect well on this board & remember, at present AFAIK he remains a Hibs player.

:agree: As usual a player is assessed by many on Hibs.net as either amazing or sheight with no options in between. Either an uber-pro or a character-assassinated alleged piss head. For what it's worth I sometimes saw Ryan out and about as I think his digs were near where I live. I OCCASIONALLY saw him in one of my locals - it was notable on these occasions that he would NURSE a bottle of beer to within an inch of it's life - I never once saw him anything approaching pissed and never saw him out at all anywhere near the eve of a game.
AS a player I think he had his limitations but was very far away from being anything near as bad as stated by some on here. Not as talented a ball player as Calum Booth for example (who some on here also seem fond of assasinating) but was able to step into the breach while Calum was seemingly not ready for top flight defensive duties.
Ryan was responsible for giving away a few goals last season , but it's worth noting that it was not our defensive record that got us relegated but a lack of creativity and finishing power. I'd like to wish the guy good luck in his career wherever he ends up - and if it ends up being at Hibs for another year then that will in no way be a disaster IMO although I would like to see Booth given a run at Left back.

[Smartie]

but not alone.

Another poster opened his posting saying that RM steadily declined at Hibs but I don't think he appreciated the importance of his remark. RM is certainly not alone in this category. Seems that most of our players and coaching staff could be similarly assessed. Something is rotten in the State of Hibernian. Just about everyone has under performed at Hibs in the past few years....if they were here long enough to start a steady decline.

Not to say that all our ex players are setting the football world on fire but look at Spoonie at St. Johnstone, MAC at Hamilton, Donaldson signing for Birmingham, Rankin playing well for Dundee Utd....all players who were not 'Hibs Class'. Time we all accepted these players ARE or WERE Hibs class, at least in the recent setup. It is Hibs that went out and signed these players. Not the players who signed Hibs. Perhaps this is an endorsement of LD's quality over quantity strategy. We certainly have been subject to quantity over quality. However, I tihnk we must also accept that most, if not all, the players we have signed are better than what we got from them and I do not think it was a lack of committment or effort. Something is wrong in the State of Hibernian. We have hounded players out, managers out and yet the slide continued. Not RM's fault alone or in league with Nelson. We have had a lot of scapegoat candidates in the past few years including RP, who I still think has proven only that he can sell our best players. All pointless now.

Without trying to be too flowery we must hope that our predicament leads to a better tomorrow, which one might think is not too optimistic given last seasons debacle. However, I am sure we all had similar feelings last summer.

Let's hope. I am.

:flag:

Excellent post.

It's too easy just to fire all our vitriol at McGivern but there are reasons why he and many others go into such deep decline at ER and we need to find out fast what is going on and reverse it.

[zlatan]

The masochist in me is wanting talks to breakdown and him to sign a new deal at Hibs just for the reaction in this thread.

[Allant1981]

Im probably in the minority but i would have kept him, granted he wasnt great last year but i honestly think he would have strolled it in the 1st division, we are going to need experienced players to get out of this league

[BSEJVT]

I don't agree with you that the standard of professional we can expect at hibs has to decline with the amount of money we are paying. I would have thought that the vast majority of professional football players are dedicated to being as good as they can, most of them won't be out getting drunk during the week, they will be training hard and looking after themselves.
You say supporting hibs is a negative expirience(which is true at the moment) but your post is one of the most negative things I've read on here for a while. Things are pretty bad for us right now but we've just brought in a new manager, a new head of football operations, a new CEO and we're looking to engage the local community and bring back some pride and success to hibs. Every cloud has a silver lining, let's hope the last 7 years of utter dross will be the catalyst for the change that's been needed for a long time.

Thanks for your reply.

Don't disagree with much of it.

I think for the first time in years there are genuine signs that we may be getting it right off the pitch.

If it were only RM getting the stick and his reported off field indiscretions were the reason, I would be in almost complete agreement, but it is without exception every player on the books ( see Cummings thread, I mean WTF)

Until people realise the drop in standards Scottish Football has suffered and IMO will continue to suffer and adjust their expectations, then the negativity you mention will continue.

It's like wading through a swamp reading Hibs net at the moment.

[J-C]

Liked a bevvy all too often during the week when he should've been more professional, this also goes for Taiwo, Collins and unfortunately Handling and it showed in their respective performances for our club. Thought he was billy big baws and too good for our club, even showed that by almost having square goes with supporters outside the ground, will not be missed by me.

[Lago]

:agree:

QUOTE=zlatan;4079074]The masochist in me is wanting talks to breakdown and him to sign a new deal at Hibs just for the reaction in this thread.[/QUOTE]

[lord bunberry]

Thanks for your reply.

Don't disagree with much of it.

I think for the first time in years there are genuine signs that we may be getting it right off the pitch.

If it were only RM getting the stick and his reported off field indiscretions were the reason, I would be in almost complete agreement, but it is without exception every player on the books ( see Cummings thread, I mean WTF)

Until people realise the drop in standards Scottish Football has suffered and IMO will continue to suffer and adjust their expectations, then the negativity you mention will continue.

It's like wading through a swamp reading Hibs net at the moment.

I agree with you about the abuse of some of the players, that doesn't help anyone, I just think there's reasons to be optimistic at the moment, obviously i would rather we hadn't been relegated but if we can get promoted (which I believe we can) then we can put the last seven years behind us and become the team our fans and our infrastructure deserve.

[NAE NOOKIE]

To be honest I think you could substitute nearly every player on the books for RM into this thread and get a similar if slightly less vociferous response.

The current level of emotions ranging from disconnected to hatred of the current and recent playing staff at ER is IMO one of our biggest problems.

Even Leigh had his detractors.

I honestly didn't rate RM that much, but lots of people here need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Scottish football has deteriorated massively in last 20 years and continues to do so.

Consequently the standard of player and standard of professional we are able to attract has done too.

People could save themselves a lot of angst and the club and it's players a lot of grief by either accepting times have changed or just stop ranting over it.

Oh and by the way it's going to continue to get worse in the short term and will eventually bottom out somewhere around English Div 2.

Maybe in 50 years time when everyone who saw us in the days of Sauzee or Mowbray's team has died off and expectations are a bit more realistic, we can get back to loving and supporting the club and feeling something other than contempt at its players.

Sadly I won't be here to see it, but if the whole supporting Hibs experience continues to be as negative as it has been the last few years I won't be seeing that much longer either.

I'm not sure how another tiresome diatribe about the state of Scottish football is a defence of the shortcomings of Ryan McGivern, or Hibs for that matter . In fact it should be the very opposite.

Here is a player who a top EPL club felt was worth keeping on the books for the best part of a decade and who gets a game for his country. The 'state' of the game here should have made a player with that background a stand out, strolling through games, not one who went on a downward spiral after signing culminating in him making some crucial errors in the second part of the season.

FWIW there were some really good games last season not least of which was the Scottish cup final. The Dundee Utd team which ripped us a new erse at ER a few months ago weren't too shabby as I recall.

Of all the negativity folk moan about on this board the never ending delight some seem to take in knocking our game is the most annoying. Nobody is pretending its not been at a better level in the past. But I for one don't believe that it cant or wont get better, or that for all its shortcomings it cant be entertaining.

I'm happy to say that the 40,000 fans who followed Aberdeen to the LC final or the 30,000 who turned out for Dundee Utd or the 15,000 St Johnstone managed to find .... or for that matter the 18,000 of our own fans Hibs managed at home to Hamilton shows that this country still loves the game of football. Lets not forget the 8,000 or so Yams who were prepared to put into the FoH thing just to keep their club going.

In conclusion ...... If folk are angry and negative about Hibs and its players at the moment its because in the current climate its not unreasonable to expect us to be a Barracuda in the stagnant pond you describe .... not a constantly floundering minnow. If the game here is rubbish we should aim for being the best of that rubbish ... something we cant even get close to.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Anyone know if he has passed medical and agreed terms?

[hibs4thecup1988]

So is he away?

[RP1875]

Yes. He's away. 100%

[Golden Bear]

Yes. He's away. 100%

Thanks Rod.

[kj79]

Yes. He's away. 100%

Best Moment of World Cup 2014 for me :flag::flag:

[Stuarty27]

ya beuty!!

[FranckSuzy]

Maybe there's a case for strikers standing out more and being in more demand? Who knows.

Personally, I think you'd be mad to say either of the two were world beaters. However, I think you'd have to be equally as mad to think they're the source of all our problems and should be punted.

For the last few years of shocking football, they've both been a small positive. Two home grown players who give 100% to the club, can play a bit and have consistently been two of our best players over the recent years (Hanlon has shown a lot of improvement over the last two years, especially last year before his initial injury).

Currently, they are two of our best players. Currently, we're not where we want to be, or where we feel a club our size should be. If we do improve over the next few years (which I think we will with Dempster's approach to the complete revamp of our club), then we'll have better players, a better a squad, and be playing against better opposition in Europe.

If either Paul Hanlon or Lewis Stevenson are not good enough for a good Hibs squad, then fair enough, we'll have to replace them if they can't reach our standards/are holding us back. But right now, they're two of the only players we have that actually adhere to any standard. They get the club, they play for the jersey and they would be very useful assets to our squad over the next few years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

:top marks

[FranckSuzy]

Hey Cat i'm glad to say you won :-)
Seriously yes I will be buying 2 KFK tickets (ie 1 kid 1 carer)
We did say 2 but as you need a carer too it's basically only 1 ticket.
Unless that is you wanna match me ? :-)
I'm heading out of Southampton today for 2wk hol & will settle with Suzy when I get back, Suzy if you read this please drop me a pm.
This is one bet I'm more than happy to lose.
Ps how's your leg, did you not have an op recently ? Hope it's on the mend & maybe catch a beer at Livi game if your about.


Mate I'll be more than happy to also buy one. That way everyone is a winner. I'm booking two hols this month but last day of this month I'll drop Suzy a pm and sort out getting the cash to her.

I'll be at the Livi game so yeah be good to grab a beer. Will drop you a pm nearer the time.

Yeah I did, and it went really well and hopefully that's the last one. Thanks for asking appreciate that mate. Take it easy and enjoy the holiday :) and I'll speak to you soon!

Cheers guys :thumbsup: Top class :agree:

[Sir David Gray]

I see he's snubbed Port Vale and become a panelist on a Question of Sport.

Check out BBC1 just now if anyone's confused! :greengrin

[DH1875]

I've only read the first page of the thread so don't know if this is true or not but if it is, all I can say is, about ducking time. Guy has been a disaster since he signed full time with us. Even going as far back as the final against celtic, he was the worst player on the park and cost us two goals. How he's an international defender is beyond me.

[Del Boy]

I'm not sure how another tiresome diatribe about the state of Scottish football is a defence of the shortcomings of Ryan McGivern, or Hibs for that matter . In fact it should be the very opposite.

Here is a player who a top EPL club felt was worth keeping on the books for the best part of a decade and who gets a game for his country. The 'state' of the game here should have made a player with that background a stand out, strolling through games, not one who went on a downward spiral after signing culminating in him making some crucial errors in the second part of the season.

FWIW there were some really good games last season not least of which was the Scottish cup final. The Dundee Utd team which ripped us a new erse at ER a few months ago weren't too shabby as I recall.

Of all the negativity folk moan about on this board the never ending delight some seem to take in knocking our game is the most annoying. Nobody is pretending its not been at a better level in the past. But I for one don't believe that it cant or wont get better, or that for all its shortcomings it cant be entertaining.

I'm happy to say that the 40,000 fans who followed Aberdeen to the LC final or the 30,000 who turned out for Dundee Utd or the 15,000 St Johnstone managed to find .... or for that matter the 18,000 of our own fans Hibs managed at home to Hamilton shows that this country still loves the game of football. Lets not forget the 8,000 or so Yams who were prepared to put into the FoH thing just to keep their club going.

In conclusion ...... If folk are angry and negative about Hibs and its players at the moment its because in the current climate its not unreasonable to expect us to be a Barracuda in the stagnant pond you describe .... not a constantly floundering minnow. If the game here is rubbish we should aim for being the best of that rubbish ... something we cant even get close to.

Great post and I totally agree.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Seems like I'm in a minority of 1 but I'm appalled at the abuse being handed out to RM here. Without doubt he had a terrible season, not many players didn't, but I think our opinions of him are influenced by our original high expectations. At no stage however did I think he was shirking or not giving his all for Hibs. In a season where nearly every player was hiding & treating the ball like a hot potato he showed up more often than most. In the last game, either he's an Oscar winning actor or he was devastated. I've been following Hibs for 60 years, & last season was worse than conceding 18 goals in 3 finals to Celtc, our prior 2 relegations & other more recent games. However, a torrent of abuse to a young man who's already had many challenges in his career does not, IMO, reflect well on this board & remember, at present AFAIK he remains a Hibs player.

Definitely not alone Brog. Personally I despise what appears to be a demonisation of a young man. Should also say that a footballer's job is not the ninety minutes on a Saturday, it includes the training for it. Just an aside to all thr HR experts as well. Should players have individual performance KPIs and targets? If they fail to achieve them then we could sack them half way through a season if they are achieving neither. Guess that leads on to another question. Could fan satisfaction be incorporated as one of the KPIs?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Interesting to see how many people are unhappy with the way McGivern is being treated by the fans.

Just goes to show, "everybody" is not the same as "everybody I know".

FACT

[Ronniekirk]

Definitely not alone Brog. Personally I despise what appears to be a demonisation of a young man. Should also say that a footballer's job is not the ninety minutes on a Saturday, it includes the training for it. Just an aside to all thr HR experts as well. Should players have individual performance KPIs and targets? If they fail to achieve them then we could sack them half way through a season if they are achieving neither. Guess that leads on to another question. Could fan satisfaction be incorporated as one of the KPIs?

Don't agree with personal abuse ,but on basis of some of his performances latterly Stubbs has to decide if he thinks that he can get him back to the performance level he showed when he first came because if he can't then his sloppy casual defending will cost us goals .I remember a great through ball he played at Pittodrie and remember thinking he looks a player .Unfortunately Kugi was theIntended recipient .Now he was a complete waste of a signing .

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I've only read the first page of the thread so don't know if this is true or not but if it is, all I can say is, about ducking time. Guy has been a disaster since he signed full time with us. Even going as far back as the final against celtic, he was the worst player on the park and cost us two goals. How he's an international defender is beyond me.


I have a feeling that McGivern may come good at Port Vale and can have a chance to start his career again. FWIW, I think that he lacked guidance and someone giving him a long term plan. When he came here, I think he thought he was a proper Manchester City player, rather than just being on their books. He came here, really to learn the game, but often played like he knew it all, was better than Hibs, and that just turning up should have been enough. Him leaving works for both player and club.

[sahib]

Definitely not alone Brog. Personally I despise what appears to be a demonisation of a young man. Should also say that a footballer's job is not the ninety minutes on a Saturday, it includes the training for it. Just an aside to all thr HR experts as well. Should players have individual performance KPIs and targets? If they fail to achieve them then we could sack them half way through a season if they are achieving neither. Guess that leads on to another question. Could fan satisfaction be incorporated as one of the KPIs?
:agree:

People should remember players don't pick themselves for games. At least two managers thought he was the best available for selection at that time. No one ever seems to remember the tackles that did come off, the headers that were won or the passes that did reach a team mate. (there must have been some)
I didn't think he was as effective a player as he should have been as he did seem to have ability and a good physique.

[Beefster]

The hatred for McGivern is based as much on the fishwives' tales on here about his social life as it is about his performances. It's not like McGivern was any worse than anyone else under Butcher.

[weonlywon6-2]

The hatred for McGivern is based as much on the fishwives' tales on here about his social life as it is about his performances. It's not like McGivern was any worse than anyone else under Butcher.

Very true,i dont think any player showed what they were capable of due to the butcher effect,slide down the table etc etc

[hihohibby]

I'm not sure how another tiresome diatribe about the state of Scottish football is a defence of the shortcomings of Ryan McGivern, or Hibs for that matter . In fact it should be the very opposite.

Here is a player who a top EPL club felt was worth keeping on the books for the best part of a decade and who gets a game for his country. The 'state' of the game here should have made a player with that background a stand out, strolling through games, not one who went on a downward spiral after signing culminating in him making some crucial errors in the second part of the season.

FWIW there were some really good games last season not least of which was the Scottish cup final. The Dundee Utd team which ripped us a new erse at ER a few months ago weren't too shabby as I recall.

Of all the negativity folk moan about on this board the never ending delight some seem to take in knocking our game is the most annoying. Nobody is pretending its not been at a better level in the past. But I for one don't believe that it cant or wont get better, or that for all its shortcomings it cant be entertaining.

I'm happy to say that the 40,000 fans who followed Aberdeen to the LC final or the 30,000 who turned out for Dundee Utd or the 15,000 St Johnstone managed to find .... or for that matter the 18,000 of our own fans Hibs managed at home to Hamilton shows that this country still loves the game of football. Lets not forget the 8,000 or so Yams who were prepared to put into the FoH thing just to keep their club going.

In conclusion ...... If folk are angry and negative about Hibs and its players at the moment its because in the current climate its not unreasonable to expect us to be a Barracuda in the stagnant pond you describe .... not a constantly floundering minnow. If the game here is rubbish we should aim for being the best of that rubbish ... something we cant even get close to.

Excellent response and post.:agree:

[Turkish Green]

It is the same in most jobs: a young single man working away from home is always going to follow his peers and head out to the social scene to find entertainment and to avoid boredom. Is it not the job of club captain to see that the players keep out of trouble. In which case Craig was maybe a poor choice.

But why is it that I only read about Hibs players being out and about in the city. Do players at other clubs have other past times to keep them out of mischief?

[Zazu62]

I keep hearing about him causing trouble/drinking . Can't remember hearing anything about this

[Cameron1875]

Allegedly drinks a lot
Hoofs the ball every chance he gets
Can't mark at corners
Soft as s****
Never seen him put in a decent cross

Missed anything? Imo he was the worst of the lot last season even though its very close between him and Nelson.

[HoboHarry]

I keep hearing about him causing trouble/drinking . Can't remember hearing anything about this
I have often wondered why the Saturday night warriors who claim that they seen him blootered on the town rarely have photos to back it up. Funny thing that.....

[Stuarty27]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.

[bingo70]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.

Nonsense.

Terry butcher is 1. 2 and 3 in your list

[Diclonius]

The hatred for McGivern is based as much on the fishwives' tales on here about his social life as it is about his performances. It's not like McGivern was any worse than anyone else under Butcher.

I can't think of any player who cost us more goals via individual mistakes last season than McGivern.

[Stuarty27]

Nonsense.

Terry butcher is 1. 2 and 3 in your list

Was it Terrys fault that these 3 players couldnt do the simplest of tasks. ie tackle, pass, head to your own players?

[MyJo]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.

Should be

1. Butcher & Malpas
2. McGivern
3. Collins

[steviehibsleith]

I have often wondered why the Saturday night warriors who claim that they seen him blootered on the town rarely have photos to back it up. Funny thing that.....

Few reasons spring to mind firstly he is big ****** you really think he is going to just stand there and allow his photo to be taken while hes on the lash ?
Anyone trying to take a photo witout permission would be evicted by the bouncer hence they go to VIP lounges
Do you after i night out on the drink yourself see someone and pull your phone out to take a picture ?
The list goes on

[silverhibee]

Very true,i dont think any player showed what they were capable of due to the butcher effect,slide down the table etc etc

They were hardly setting the place on fire before Butcher arrived.

[Lang Toun Hibs]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.

Utterbollocks!

1. Butcher
2. Butcher
3. Butcher

Liam Craig will be a great player for us if played in the right position. If not he will do well somewhere else. McGivern will do well too in my opinion - he's not the only one who likes a drink!

[bingo70]

Was it Terrys fault that these 3 players couldnt do the simplest of tasks. ie tackle, pass, head to your own players?

They wouldn't have made it to being professional footballers if they couldn't do those things.

Yes, I blame butcher for stripping them of their confidence and making them unable to perform what should be simple tasks for them.

They didn't choose to lose their confidence

[SMAXXA]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4080421]I have often wondered why the Saturday night warriors who claim that they seen him blootered on the town rarely have photos to back it up. Funny thing that.....[/QUOT

I personally witnessed him and Matt Done coming out of ynot with a bottle of vodka in McGiverns hand a week before the Scottish cup final. Was told that the manager told them to have a day off and go enjoy themselves to which I replied I don't think he quite meant walk out a club at 3am with a bottle of vodka a week before our biggest game for years.

utter plum

[Beefster]

I personally witnessed him and Matt Done coming out of ynot with a bottle of vodka in McGiverns hand a week before the Scottish cup final. Was told that the manager told them to have a day off and go enjoy themselves to which I replied I don't think he quite meant walk out a club at 3am with a bottle of vodka a week before our biggest game for years.

utter plum

You should definitely drag that up 13 months later. That should help him/the team/the club.

I heard Thomson disrespect Hibs once ages ago but I'm not one for holding grudges.

[HoboHarry]

Few reasons spring to mind firstly he is big ****** you really think he is going to just stand there and allow his photo to be taken while hes on the lash ?
Anyone trying to take a photo witout permission would be evicted by the bouncer hence they go to VIP lounges
Do you after i night out on the drink yourself see someone and pull your phone out to take a picture ?
The list goes on
No I wouldn't. But then I wouldn't be drunk in a night club either. Nor would I make stuff up on this forum.
My list could go on too.....

[Smartie]

McGivern gave the ball away in horrific fashion for the first Hamilton goal in the play-off and there was a sighting of him cavorting around Tempus with a bucket of Champagne in the close aftermath of the Killie debacle in the last game of the season. These are the main reasons why he's getting it tight from some people at the moment imo.

He was honking in a honking team last year, but miles down my list of who was to blame for our relegation and that is list that has many, many candidates and would be tough to pin down to 3.

On the pitch, the main reason we were relegated was because we couldn't score. McGivern contributed to this with his hoofing and beachball crosses but there were many more to blame further up the park for our impotence up front.

Oh, and I'd say that Forster was individually to blame for more goals than anyone in the latter part of the season.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

McGivern gave the ball away in horrific fashion for the first Hamilton goal in the play-off and there was a sighting of him cavorting around Tempus with a bucket of Champagne in the close aftermath of the Killie debacle in the last game of the season. These are the main reasons why he's getting it tight from some people at the moment imo.

He was honking in a honking team last year, but miles down my list of who was to blame for our relegation and that is list that has many, many candidates and would be tough to pin down to 3.

On the pitch, the main reason we were relegated was because we couldn't score. McGivern contributed to this with his hoofing and beachball crosses but there were many more to blame further up the park for our impotence up front.

Oh, and I'd say that Forster was individually to blame for more goals than anyone in the latter part of the season.

And how many season does seasoned pro Forster have under his belt?
if anything I hope our plight and future apparent reliance on youth sees some sense of perspective break out amongst a number of our support. Otherwise imo we're impairing the ability of our youth and manager to flourish.

As supporters we have a choice if the consensus is that we cannot permit youth to experiment and try things then the players and Stubbs have their work cut out for them.

[TheFamous1875]

Who's to blame?

(In order)

1. Petrie/Farmer

2. Butcher

3. Fenlon


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Smartie]

And how many season does seasoned pro Forster have under his belt?
if anything I hope our plight and future apparent reliance on youth sees some sense of perspective break out amongst a number of our support. Otherwise imo we're impairing the ability of our youth and manager to flourish.

As supporters we have a choice if the consensus is that we cannot permit youth to experiment and try things then the players and Stubbs have their work cut out for them.

By mentioning Forster I was mainly referring to a poster above who said that McGivern was to blame for most of the goals we gave away and pointing out that imo Forster gave away most. Coupled with the fact that he was probably our most potent threat going forward, even from centre-half I'm more than happy to cut Forster a bit of slack.

Forster is imo even further down the list of who is culpable for our relegation than McGivern and I totally a agree that our "blame" culture absolutely has to change and that the scapegoating of certain individuals is counter-productive.

[SMAXXA]

You should definitely drag that up 13 months later. That should help him/the team/the club.

I heard Thomson disrespect Hibs once ages ago but I'm not one for holding grudges.

Who's dragging it up I responded to a post about a situation like that. Wtf has Thomson got to do with this thread? :confused:

If he or the team or club are looking on this site and a post could affect them then they need to get a grip as there's more important things to do with their time. Fail to see your point whatsoever.

[Beefster]

Who's dragging it up I responded to a post about a situation like that. Wtf has Thomson got to do with this thread? :confused:

If he or the team or club are looking on this site and a post could affect them then they need to get a grip as there's more important things to do with their time. Fail to see your point whatsoever.

I'm totally scunnered with the incessant bitching at everything Hibs on here. If it's not Rodders, it's Dempster, Butcher, Nelson, McGivern, Stevenson, Collins, Craig and on and on.

FFS, I was one of the first ones to say that Nelson wasn't good enough towards the end of 2013 but the current scapegoating of Nelson and McGivern is ridiculous. It's become fashionable to blame everything on Butcher, Collins, Nelson and McGivern. Seeing as two of them are gone, all the hatred is now focussed on the two we have left.

I guess seeing your post about something that happened 13 months ago, when you'd probably defend Thomson even if he took a dump in the ER centre circle, was particularly galling.

[SMAXXA]

I'm totally scunnered with the incessant bitching at everything Hibs on here. If it's not Rodders, it's Dempster, Butcher, Nelson, McGivern, Stevenson, Collins, Craig and on and on.

FFS, I was one of the first ones to say that Nelson wasn't good enough towards the end of 2013 but the current scapegoating of Nelson and McGivern is ridiculous. It's become fashionable to blame everything on Butcher, Collins, Nelson and McGivern. Seeing as two of them are gone, all the hatred is now focussed on the two we have left.

I guess seeing your post about something that happened 13 months ago, when you'd probably defend Thomson even if he took a dump in the ER centre circle, was particularly galling.

Moronic comment

[BSEJVT]

I'm not sure how another tiresome diatribe about the state of Scottish football is a defence of the shortcomings of Ryan McGivern, or Hibs for that matter . In fact it should be the very opposite.

Here is a player who a top EPL club felt was worth keeping on the books for the best part of a decade and who gets a game for his country. The 'state' of the game here should have made a player with that background a stand out, strolling through games, not one who went on a downward spiral after signing culminating in him making some crucial errors in the second part of the season.

FWIW there were some really good games last season not least of which was the Scottish cup final. The Dundee Utd team which ripped us a new erse at ER a few months ago weren't too shabby as I recall.

Of all the negativity folk moan about on this board the never ending delight some seem to take in knocking our game is the most annoying. Nobody is pretending its not been at a better level in the past. But I for one don't believe that it cant or wont get better, or that for all its shortcomings it cant be entertaining.

I'm happy to say that the 40,000 fans who followed Aberdeen to the LC final or the 30,000 who turned out for Dundee Utd or the 15,000 St Johnstone managed to find .... or for that matter the 18,000 of our own fans Hibs managed at home to Hamilton shows that this country still loves the game of football. Lets not forget the 8,000 or so Yams who were prepared to put into the FoH thing just to keep their club going.

In conclusion ...... If folk are angry and negative about Hibs and its players at the moment its because in the current climate its not unreasonable to expect us to be a Barracuda in the stagnant pond you describe .... not a constantly floundering minnow. If the game here is rubbish we should aim for being the best of that rubbish ... something we cant even get close to.

Was there really any need to start your post that way, it shows a distinct lack of class

FWIW it wasn't a defence of RM or of Hibs, more a lament at how unpleasant it has all become the relationship between the fans themselves, the fans and the club and the especially the fans and the players.

To be honest though I am more concerned about the total disconnect between our support and the club and players, (not just RM them all) than your opinion.

But then again if people like you feel the need to respond to someone's opinion in they way did, should I be surprised at the level of vitriol directed to our players by those that pretend to support them, probably not?

The great pity in all this is that there is so much unnecessary unpleasantness involved in debating about or supporting Hibs these days that people are increasingly tuned off doing so.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4080421]I have often wondered why the Saturday night warriors who claim that they seen him blootered on the town rarely have photos to back it up. Funny thing that.....[/QUOT

I personally witnessed him and Matt Done coming out of ynot with a bottle of vodka in McGiverns hand a week before the Scottish cup final. Was told that the manager told them to have a day off and go enjoy themselves to which I replied I don't think he quite meant walk out a club at 3am with a bottle of vodka a week before our biggest game for years.

utter plum

The more I'm reading on here, the more I wish I had McGivern's job.:greengrin

[SMAXXA]

[QUOTE=SMAXXA;4080447]

The more I'm reading on here, the more I wish I had McGivern's job.:greengrin

But would reading criticsm on here upset you too much :wink:

[J-C]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.


No chance, the reasons we got relegated were

1. Petrie for watching over a sinking ship since Mowbray/Collins left
2. Fenlon for not having the balls to go after the Malmo debacle
3. Butcher for alienating nearly a whole squad because he and his neanderthal assistant worked in the dark ages of football management and didn't have a scooby.

[Cameron1875]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4080421]I have often wondered why the Saturday night warriors who claim that they seen him blootered on the town rarely have photos to back it up. Funny thing that.....[/QUOT

I personally witnessed him and Matt Done coming out of ynot with a bottle of vodka in McGiverns hand a week before the Scottish cup final. Was told that the manager told them to have a day off and go enjoy themselves to which I replied I don't think he quite meant walk out a club at 3am with a bottle of vodka a week before our biggest game for years.

utter plum

How did McGivern get on in that cup final too? At fault for possibly all 3 goals so you are spot on there.

Fail to Prepare, Prepare to Fail. Couldn't be appropriate in this person's case.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;4080530]

But would reading criticsm on here upset you too much :wink:

For a bottle of Vodka, I'd live with it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Was there really any need to start your post that way, it shows a distinct lack of class

FWIW it wasn't a defence of RM or of Hibs, more a lament at how unpleasant it has all become the relationship between the fans themselves, the fans and the club and the especially the fans and the players.

To be honest though I am more concerned about the total disconnect between our support and the club and players, (not just RM them all) than your opinion.

But then again if people like you feel the need to respond to someone's opinion in they way did, should I be surprised at the level of vitriol directed to our players by those that pretend to support them, probably not?

The great pity in all this is that there is so much unnecessary unpleasantness involved in debating about or supporting Hibs these days that people are increasingly tuned off doing so.

I'm not sure exactly why being annoyed at yet another post which not only takes the easy route of rubbishing Scottish football, but also points at the state of Scottish football as the reason for Hibs failures in domestic competition shows a "lack of class" .... utter nonsense my friend.

Perhaps you should read your own post again before you comment on mine. You cited the current 'state' of Scottish football as the reason why we have players who are poor, like McGivern turned out to be, and why Hibs are in the state they are in on the park. I was not commenting either way on the rest of what you said.

Nobody expects Hibs players to be world beaters ..... but in that context the part of your post I was commenting on doesn't, and cant, hold up for the simple reason that we expect Hibs players to play as well or better than those of other clubs who are only in a position to attract at best similar players to what we have. The fact that many of our players over the last few years have failed to match the results achieved by similar, or worse, players at other often smaller clubs cannot be attributed to the 'state' of Scottish football, for the simple reason that these players and clubs also play in Scottish football.

In short, to blame Scottish football for our failure to do well in Scottish football doesn't make sense.

Classy enough for you?

Oh and by the way ...... at no point in my post did I insult you personally, all I did was disagree with you, hardly vitriolic.

[H18Y GW]

The top 3 reasons we were relegated:

1.Ryan McGivern
2. Micheal Nelson
3.Liam Craig

All 3 should never play for us again.

I'm bamboozled how Williams and Forster are exempt on these defensive and culpable for losing games/goals.

The two I mention were horrific week in week out for the last 4 months , but it's never mentioned

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I'm bamboozled how Williams and Forster are exempt on these defensive and culpable for losing games/goals.

The two I mention were horrific week in week out for the last 4 months , but it's never mentioned

What a carnage-fest this is becoming... Bring on the new season.

[sahib]

What a carnage-fest this is becoming... Bring on the new season.

:agree:

I would just like to say, however, that it wasn't Mcgivern, Foster or anyone else's mistakes that did really did us in. It was (imho) our inability to create chances and hence score goals. You can always blame some defender for a goal being scored if you want to.

[weonlywon6-2]

They were hardly setting the place on fire before Butcher arrived.

No we werent but they were not bottom of the pile either

[weonlywon6-2]

The reason we got relegated was we couldnt score ,leighs goals papered over the cracks last season,hibs tried to get a scorer in colli s to replace him but it didnt work,along comes butcher and his words of wisdom to an already fragile squad and hey ho were down,so therefore the blame goes back several years and you can point the finger at a few people for it,not one person.
Now we have the chance to pick up the pieces and move onwards and upwards with the new changes and staff in place.
I would not be surprised if we see a different liam craig and michael nelson this year

[AlbertK86]

This is getting beyond a joke

If any of our young players read these pages they would quite rightly be wanting to leave

Is it not about time we concentrated on getting behind the new manager and the team with a bit positivity

Everybody knows the shortcomings of the last few seasons

Everybody slating players and insulting each other on here is picked up by lazy journos who then turn it into a big issue and print it nationally. Just keeps eating away at the club and the negativity will continue to spread

Let's get behind Stubbs and the team

GGTTH

[DanHFC1875]

http://i.imgur.com/JO4uMRz.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JO4uMRz.gif (http://i.imgur.com/JO4uMRz.gif)

Gutted we won't be seeing more of this guy... The Mexico coach that is.

[Heisenberg]

@OfficialPVFC: A warm welcome to centre-back Ryan McGivern who has signed on a two-year deal http://t.co/yRKez3uJHy

[SteveHFC]

@OfficialPVFC: A warm welcome to centre-back Ryan McGivern who has signed on a two-year deal http://t.co/yRKez3uJHy

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_BHNsNH5SvI/U2pXyC8za6I/AAAAAAAACSM/ZLgEee85Kw4/s1600/anchorman-celebration-gif.gif

[TRC]

Notice centre back not full back

[Billy Whizz]

A Hibs player was saying to me that Ryan McGivern has been playing for months with an injury and not had much of a break for the past 3 seasons with Internationals, Europe etc

[AlbertK86]

Good luck Ryan

[SteveHFC]

Celebration gifs galore :greengrin

[Stevie Reid]

Was very happy when we signed him permanently. Much happier now he'll never play for us again.

[GreenCastle]

@OfficialPVFC: A warm welcome to centre-back Ryan McGivern who has signed on a two-year deal http://t.co/yRKez3uJHy

Centre back...

Looks like we now have 4 defenders left - if you include Nelson as a footballer.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/PlayerProfileIndex/0,,10290,00.html

Looking at our squad we are gash - severely need some quality.

[PeterboroHibee]

Good news for the club that McGivern is gone. Excellent in his first 6 months with us, but he was dire last season. I wish him all the best though.


Centre back...

Looks like we now have 4 defenders left - if you include Nelson as a footballer.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/PlayerProfileIndex/0,,10290,00.html

Looking at our squad we are gash - severely need some quality.

It really isnt good viewing. The only defender Im convinced with is Hanlon. I think Forster is one for the future as he makes too many at the moment, and unless Nelson cuts out the hoofball nonsense, I dont think we can really accommodate him in the team. Booth is a bit of an unknown, although having spent some time on loan he deserves a chance in the team.

[Lago]

Good luck to him, hopefully a new club will ger him back to the level he was at when he first joined hibs

[hibsbollah]

Centre back...

Looks like we now have 4 defenders left - if you include Nelson as a footballer.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/PlayerProfileIndex/0,,10290,00.html

Looking at our squad we are gash - severely need some quality.

Its that old 'move Lewis Stevenson to left back' chestnut.