Ownership of Hibs - where are the statements from Farmer and Petrie?

[RIP]

In the corporate business world of Maidencraig Investments, Infocus Investments, HFC Holdings and the Farmer family trust it appears to be the standard way to do business to seek a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with any senior employee, business associate, corporate partner or prospective buyer.

In the past few weeks we have had news of an offer (2 proposals?) by Paul Kane and his consortium, allegations of a possible discussion earlier this year between STF/RP and a millionnaire IT company owner/supporter(Same type of company as Ann Budge?), a new CEO recruited with community ownership credentials, a supporters trust on the other side of the city working with Supporters Direct/new owner and a clandestine 'wind of change' promised by Rod Petrie.

I'm sure I'm not the only Hibs supporter that does not want to suffer the kind of long drawn out pantomime we have seen at Ibrox, Tynecastle, East End Park, Rugby Park and to a lesser degree at Fir Park and St Mirren Park. Campaigns, bids, offers, investors, media circus, secrecy, rumour, controversies blah blah blah.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a statement from HFC Holdings that they are (or are not) investigating alternative ownership models and that Sir Tom and Rod will undertake an open and transparent consultation process to keep supporters informed? Why can't they drop their corporate secrecy and actually tell us WTF is going on for once, even if they can't give us all the details? Or is it yet another example of football club owners treating its supporters like mushrooms?

A club is nothing without its supporters/main investors yet we get kept in the dark

[Hibbyradge]

Why don't the protagonists tell us what they've offered.

[Golden Bear]

Why don't the protagonists tell us what they've offered.

:agree:

As part of the Hibernian "Community" I demand to know what's been offered on my/our behalf.

[Baldy Foghorn]

:agree:

As part of the Hibernian "Community" I demand to know what's been offered on my/our behalf.

I demand to know how much the Club is valued at, for potential investors?

[MyJo]

In the corporate business world of Maidencraig Investments, Infocus Investments, HFC Holdings and the Farmer family trust it appears to be the standard way to do business to seek a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with any senior employee, business associate, corporate partner or prospective buyer.

In the past few weeks we have had news of an offer (2 proposals?) by Paul Kane and his consortium, allegations of a possible discussion earlier this year between STF/RP and a millionnaire IT company owner/supporter(Same type of company as Ann Budge?), a new CEO recruited with community ownership credentials, a supporters trust on the other side of the city working with Supporters Direct/new owner and a clandestine 'wind of change' promised by Rod Petrie.

I'm sure I'm not the only Hibs supporter that does not want to suffer the kind of long drawn out pantomime we have seen at Ibrox, Tynecastle, East End Park, Rugby Park and to a lesser degree at Fir Park and St Mirren Park. Campaigns, bids, offers, investors, media circus, secrecy, rumour, controversies blah blah blah.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a statement from HFC Holdings that they are (or are not) investigating alternative ownership models and that Sir Tom and Rod will undertake an open and transparent consultation process to keep supporters informed? Why can't they drop their corporate secrecy and actually tell us WTF is going on for once, even if they can't give us all the details? Or is it yet another example of football club owners treating its supporters like mushrooms?

A club is nothing without its supporters/main investors yet we get kept in the dark

I'm sure whatever alternatives to Sir Tom are being considered are completely underwhelming.

[Gerard]

In the corporate business world of Maidencraig Investments, Infocus Investments, HFC Holdings and the Farmer family trust it appears to be the standard way to do business to seek a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with any senior employee, business associate, corporate partner or prospective buyer.

In the past few weeks we have had news of an offer (2 proposals?) by Paul Kane and his consortium, allegations of a possible discussion earlier this year between STF/RP and a millionnaire IT company owner/supporter(Same type of company as Ann Budge?), a new CEO recruited with community ownership credentials, a supporters trust on the other side of the city working with Supporters Direct/new owner and a clandestine 'wind of change' promised by Rod Petrie.

I'm sure I'm not the only Hibs supporter that does not want to suffer the kind of long drawn out pantomime we have seen at Ibrox, Tynecastle, East End Park, Rugby Park and to a lesser degree at Fir Park and St Mirren Park. Campaigns, bids, offers, investors, media circus, secrecy, rumour, controversies blah blah blah.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a statement from HFC Holdings that they are (or are not) investigating alternative ownership models and that Sir Tom and Rod will undertake an open and transparent consultation process to keep supporters informed? Why can't they drop their corporate secrecy and actually tell us WTF is going on for once, even if they can't give us all the details? Or is it yet another example of football club owners treating its supporters like mushrooms?

A club is nothing without its supporters/main investors yet we get kept in the dark

RIP a good post. As members of the Hibernian Family we should be told about any plans to see our club being sold. The time has come to tell the HF about any possible moves to buy our club.:wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Why don't the protagonists tell us what they've offered.

STF has asked that details are not disclosed.

[Hibbyradge]

STF has asked that details are not disclosed.

lol

No offers have been received.

However, you could have explained that to the OP.

[IWasThere2016]

lol

No offers have been received.

However, you could have explained that to the OP.

I meant of the discussions .. and I should've quoted the OP. Been a long day...

[Baldy Foghorn]

RIP a good post. As members of the Hibernian Family we should be told about any plans to see our club being sold. The time has come to tell the HF about any possible moves to buy our club.:wink:

Not having a go a you Gerard, But it boils my blood when Hibs call us the "family".....IMO we are only Family when money is needed, yet we are kept in the dark for much of the Year...

[greenginger]

I think the number one priority has been getting the manager in place,the second priority should be getting some decent signings made.

After that the club and its Chief Executive might have some time to consider ownership alternatives.

[Golden Bear]

I demand to know how much the Club is valued at, for potential investors?

I've a massive holding of 100 shares.

Offers?

:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

;););););)
Not having a go a you Gerard, But it boils my blood when Hibs call us the "family".....IMO we are only Family when money is needed, yet we are kept in the dark for much of the Year...
sounds like family to me :)

Sent from my C2105 using Tapatalk

[Baldy Foghorn]

I've a massive holding of 100 shares.

Offers?

:greengrin

£25......

[SunshineOnLeith]

I've a massive holding of 100 shares.

Offers?

:greengrin

I demand that you tell me how much you want for them.

[Gerard]

Not having a go a you Gerard, But it boils my blood when Hibs call us the "family".....IMO we are only Family when money is needed, yet we are kept in the dark for much of the Year...

Exactly we should be kept in 'the loop' regardless of when money is being asked from us. WT is the gateway that IMO creates good working relations with the Hibs Family in all its branches. The Hibs Family give far more money than any other revenue stream period. I have a dream......... Hibs will one day soon be owned as a community club then there will be full transparency in the way the club is run and we shall all then be one Hibs family

[Golden Bear]

I demand that you tell me how much you want for them.

Ah ha. The hook line and sinker smiley not available from phone.

[greenpaper55]

Folk should remember that it's the fans money that keeps the club afloat year on year and not petrie and Co and it's the fans money that is wasted year on year.

[Keith_M]

I don't think they'll be making any statements, as they've circled the wagons. Petrie has never been so quiet and it just makes me suspect he's doing his level best to keep his head down, outfox the opposition and hope it all just goes away.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think they'll be making any statements, as they've circled the wagons. Petrie has never been so quiet and it just makes me suspect he's doing his level best to keep his head down, outfox the opposition and hope it all just goes away.

Or maybe doing the job that he's supposed to be doing.

:devil:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I'm sure whatever alternatives to Sir Tom are being considered are completely underwhelming.

Theres that word again. We can sit there a spraff about various things being underwhelming. But it gets us nowhere. "Here we are now entertain us!" I'm afraid we've a hard period before we reach there. Whether it's Stubbs or someone else we need to get over whatever feelings and get back to what we do best - we've been severely tested but one more time (yet again) we wait for a manager to pull things together...

As I've said on other threads I'd love to do away with such negative words like that. That's not to say support is blind but we need to find some positivity and nurture not strangle it at birth Imo.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Exactly we should be kept in 'the loop' regardless of when money is being asked from us. WT is the gateway that IMO creates good working relations with the Hibs Family in all its branches. The Hibs Family give far more money than any other revenue stream period. I have a dream......... Hibs will one day soon be owned as a community club then there will be full transparency in the way the club is run and we shall all then be one Hibs family

And that's no silver bullet IMO.

[Keith_M]

Or maybe doing the job that he's supposed to be doing.

:devil:


If only we knew what that was exactly.



:hmmm:

[Gerard]

And that's no silver bullet IMO.

Perhaps no silver bullet. Do we need a silver bullet? :greengrin. Do we want the status quo where our club is owned almost by one man or a situation where the fans in time own 51 percent of the club. I am aware of the fact that there are apprx 60 million shares valued at 50p per share:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Petrie has never been so quiet

Aye, keekaboo, he's usually a right chatterbox.

I cant tell you the number of times I've logged into hibs.net and thought to myself, "look at all the threads about Rod Petrie's incessant communications". :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Perhaps no silver bullet. Do we need a silver bullet? :greengrin. Do we want the status quo where our club is owned almost by one man or a situation where the fans in time own 51 percent of the club. I am aware of the fact that there are apprx 60 million shares valued at 50p per share:greengrin

Who valued them at that?

[Caversham Green]

Exactly we should be kept in 'the loop' regardless of when money is being asked from us. WT is the gateway that IMO creates good working relations with the Hibs Family in all its branches. The Hibs Family give far more money than any other revenue stream period. I have a dream......... Hibs will one day soon be owned as a community club then there will be full transparency in the way the club is run and we shall all then be one Hibs family

I feel a campaign coming on. I think Hibs should be a Community Interest Company - that would make factual ownership more or less irrelevant and if prospective new owners pledged to convert the club to a CIC they would start to get my support as would Sir Tom and Rod. Stenhousemuir, Clyde and now Dunfermline have gone down that road, but I think Hibs would be the biggest club to do it so far. I think it's the way to go for 'local' clubs - i.e the ones that will never be European giants.

[Gerard]

Who valued them at that?

I am not sure who the exact person is but if you want to buy shares they cost 50p per share and stamp duty. You need to find a person willing to sell shares. The Erin Trust recently purchased 5000 shares and we were charged 50 p per share. This was done by contacting Hibs.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am not sure who the exact person is but if you want to buy shares they cost 50p per share and stamp duty. You need to find a person willing to sell shares. The Erin Trust recently purchased 5000 shares and we were charged 50 p per share. This was done by contacting Hibs.

If all 60 million shares were valued at 50pence, that would value the club at £30m. That's way OTT IMO.

I suspect that the 50 pence for small holdings will have been set at a level that makes it administratively economic to do so. Either that, or the person who sold Erin Trust their shares was at it. £2,500 for something that cost nothing? Bandit......:greengrin

[Gerard]

If all 60 million shares were valued at 50pence, that would value the club at £30m. That's way OTT IMO.

I suspect that the 50 pence for small holdings will have been set at a level that makes it administratively economic to do so. Either that, or the person who sold Erin Trust their shares was at it. £2,500 for something that cost nothing? Bandit......:greengrin

We know the person who sold us the shares:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

We know the person who sold us the shares:wink:

Hope he's put it on his Tax Return. :greengrin

Editor's note:- if the seller is on this board, by "bandit", I mean "financially astute".

[RIP]

How much money would it take to buy the club back from Petrie and Farmer? There would be land and buildings but unless HFC holdings wanted to sell to a property developer to build flats, then market values are not particularly relevant.

Then there are bank and Farmer loans and mortgages. Would they all be taken on by a buyer, given the poor financial stewardship in recent years?

I can't see any prospective buyers paying much tbh. It's more about the gradual transition of control from the owner/benefactor model to the public/private/community model giving investing supporters a greater stake in the running of the club.

[CropleyWasGod]

How much money would it take to buy the club back from Petrie and Farmer? There would be land and buildings but unless HFC holdings wanted to sell to a property developer to build flats, then market values are not particularly relevant.

Then there are bank and Farmer loans and mortgages. Would they all be taken on by a buyer, given the poor financial stewardship in recent years?

I can't see any prospective buyers paying much tbh. It's more about the gradual transition of control from the owner/benefactor model to the public/private/community model giving investing supporters a greater stake in the running of the club.

If the shares were being bought, almost certainly yes.

[Caversham Green]

How much money would it take to buy the club back from Petrie and Farmer? There would be land and buildings but unless HFC holdings wanted to sell to a property developer to build flats, then market values are not particularly relevant.

Then there are bank and Farmer loans and mortgages. Would they all be taken on by a buyer, given the poor financial stewardship in recent years?

I can't see any prospective buyers paying much tbh. It's more about the gradual transition of control from the owner/benefactor model to the public/private/community model giving investing supporters a greater stake in the running of the club.

It's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Commercially, the club is worth the break-up value (which is where market value becomes relevant) plus a going concern premium. You'd be buying the whole club - assets less encumbrances (mortgages/loans etc) - including player contracts which would add to the going concern premium since they're worthless on break-up. We've seen from across the city that market value is not necessarily very high (admittedly that was in a very strange part of town) but the superior infrastructure at Hibs would up the price quite a bit (again in commercial terms). On the other hand, I doubt if STF is really looking for a commercial return and would probably sell at a reasonable price to someone who would guarantee that he or his descendants would not have to bail the club out again in the future.

The shorter answer is - dunno.

As an aside, there are rumours down here that one of the latest sales of Reading FC fell through because Sir John Madejski (silent j) would not accept the renaming of the Madejski Stadium. In some ways I don't blame him, but never underestimate the ego of the club saviour.

[Jack]

There hasn't been even the slightest hint that our current owners have ever considered any sort of community/fan ownership. Indeed some of our financial gurus having looked at what evidence there is I'm sure have suggested any Trust will in time be held in some sort of ownership Trust by STFs family! That's longer term planning!

I disagree with the line Leeann Dempster has been brought in to introduce a Motherwell model which is currently on its knees.

As a support I think we have more chance of ridding the club of Rodders than ever seeing Hibs as a true community or fan owned club.

While I'd like to see both, realistically there's absolutely nothing to indicate either will happen anytime soon or in the foreseeable future.

Sir Alex Ferguson for our manager.

[Gerard]

There hasn't been even the slightest hint that our current owners have ever considered any sort of community/fan ownership. Indeed some of our financial gurus having looked at what evidence there is I'm sure have suggested any Trust will in time be held in some sort of ownership Trust by STFs family! That's longer term planning!

I disagree with the line Leeann Dempster has been brought in to introduce a Motherwell model which is currently on its knees.

As a support I think we have more chance of ridding the club of Rodders than ever seeing Hibs as a true community or fan owned club.

While I'd like to see both, realistically there's absolutely nothing to indicate either will happen anytime soon or in the foreseeable future.

Sir Alex Ferguson for our manager.

All the points you make are points that have validity. Time will tell if the old model of having a club owned by one person is the best model for Hibs. I take the view that if you do not ask then you will probably not get:wink:

[Weststandwanab]

Not having a go a you Gerard, But it boils my blood when Hibs call us the "family".....IMO we are only Family when money is needed, yet we are kept in the dark for much of the Year...

I have to agree 100%

[RIP]

Not having a go a you Gerard, But it boils my blood when Hibs call us the "family".....IMO we are only Family when money is needed, yet we are kept in the dark for much of the Year...

IIRC management nicked that phrase from LWT.It was first used in the Vision project to describe the far flung corners of the club. The underlying philosophy is that we - the supporters, the community, team, history and former players are the club. We are all Hibernian FC.

Referring to hired Board members and salaried staff as 'Hibs' or 'the Club' gives them a title they have not earned and do not merit.

So Gerard's use, our use of the phrase The Hibernian Family to describe ourselves is valid IMO. However I wholeheartedly agree that the management and PR use of the phrase is more patronising bland marketing schtick rather than a guiding philosophy.