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View Full Version : Petrie Out-It has all gone quiet



Forza Fred
21-06-2014, 11:09 PM
From where I view things anyway.

Have Petrie and Farmer effectively killed off the campaign by obtaining the commitment for 'confidentially' after the meeting, when in reality, words and media coverage are the main drivers of the campaign.

Certainly suits Petrie if it's all quiet on the western front I'd suggest?

HUTCHYHIBBY
21-06-2014, 11:14 PM
The silence is certainly deafening, most odd.

Scottie
21-06-2014, 11:24 PM
Have the club shut up shop early for the summer holidays ?

Maybe LD and the new manager have had to sign a pre nup with Rod or maybe he's splashed the cash to buy their silence. :rolleyes:

Peevemor
21-06-2014, 11:32 PM
Kano met STF. Kano demanded RP's removal and STF politely told him to do one. Kano then put forward his secret phase 2 proposals and STF, wanting to get him out the door, said to submit something in writing, which would only be considered if total confidentiality was guaranteed.

Hence, not a peep since.

Obviously I'm guessing, but I don't think I'm far off.

hfc rd
22-06-2014, 12:05 AM
Kano met STF. Kano demanded RP's removal and STF politely told him to do one. Kano then put forward his secret phase 2 proposals and STF, wanting to get him out the door, said to submit something in writing, which would only be considered if total confidentiality was guaranteed.

Hence, not a peep since.

Obviously I'm guessing, but I don't think I'm far off.


Neither do I

Gerard
22-06-2014, 12:36 AM
Time will tell with regard to the person who is the non exec chair of the Hibs board

Iain G
22-06-2014, 12:59 AM
Kano met STF. Kano demanded RP's removal and STF politely told him to do one. Kano then put forward his secret phase 2 proposals and STF, wanting to get him out the door, said to submit something in writing, which would only be considered if total confidentiality was guaranteed.

Hence, not a peep since.

Obviously I'm guessing, but I don't think I'm far off.

Mayb the focus is moving onto new manager and the new season now that the immediate pain of relegation has diminished? Am sure Leann onboard and commuicating effectively and clearly has had a positive impact

HappyHibby93
22-06-2014, 01:48 AM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 02:18 AM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

We are all entitled to our opinions but I don't agree, and my reason for starting the thread was not to be critical.

I just wonder if the campaign though has been effectively stopped in its tracks because they may have, with the best of intentions, nevertheless been out manoeuvred by two very experienced businessmen.

Hermit Crab
22-06-2014, 02:20 AM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2


Why?

Are you suggesting the man who's appointed 5 dud managers in a row and singlehandedly sucked all the life and ambition out of our club should stay to oversee yet another new manager and possibly overrule Leanne Dempster when important decisions need to be made?

Seriously?

You out will definitely need your tin hat, oh and look out for the "L T Y F" comments.

Hibercelona
22-06-2014, 04:14 AM
We are all entitled to our opinions but I don't agree, and my reason for starting the thread was not to be critical.

I just wonder if the campaign though has been effectively stopped in its tracks because they may have, with the best of intentions, nevertheless been out manoeuvred by two very experienced businessmen.

Of course they were out manoeuvred. This was always going to be the case.

Petrie is a master when it comes to stifling an angry mob or protest group and has succeeded in doing so on more than one occasion.

This time is no different than any of the other times that fans have been upset after another poor season. A short out burst of anger, which is quickly extinguished by the same false hopes and promises we hear over and over again.

Obviously (like everybody else) I hope that this time will be different. But its just hard to see how that is even possible while Petrie still lingers.

zero-seven
22-06-2014, 04:47 AM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

Since he was appointed the team has gone from average to garbage

common denominator in all these failed appointments ? I give you ... PETRIE

he has to leave or be sacked

Sumner
22-06-2014, 05:06 AM
.. the man thinks he can grin it away in the main stand.. he will drive 1000s away

Lewis77
22-06-2014, 05:34 AM
It's gone quiet because the reality is sinking in that he's not going anywhere. The only way to get him out is buy the club? He is still the senior presence at ER. He's the Hibs equivalent of 'the claw' from Penelope Pitstop.

Weststandwanab
22-06-2014, 06:12 AM
It's gone quiet because the reality is sinking in that he's not going anywhere. The only way to get him out is buy the club? He is still the senior presence at ER. He's the Hibs equivalent of 'the claw' from Penelope Pitstop.

Hit the nail right on the head there,

Gustavo Fring
22-06-2014, 06:17 AM
im doing my best to be positive

petrie will be gone by the start of the season

TornadoHibby
22-06-2014, 06:25 AM
We are all entitled to our opinions but I don't agree, and my reason for starting the thread was not to be critical.

I just wonder if the campaign though has been effectively stopped in its tracks because they may have, with the best of intentions, nevertheless been out manoeuvred by two very experienced businessmen.

Once the "establishment" speaks you are wasting your time trying to debate the issue at hand on here IMO! :rolleyes:

lucky
22-06-2014, 06:27 AM
He will face pressure and abuse once the season starts from the stands.

Separately, Kane should open his mouth and let everyone know what's going on. He is the self appointed leader of the rebellion but is being as elusive as the present regime when it comes to communicating with the support

HibeeMassive
22-06-2014, 06:54 AM
He will face pressure and abuse once the season starts from the stands.

Separately, Kane should open his mouth and let everyone know what's going on. He is the self appointed leader of the rebellion but is being as elusive as the present regime when it comes to communicating with the support

I could be wrong, but seem to remember reading that STF had shared with PK the plans the club have in process, but he had asked PK to keep it quiet until they are able to officially announce them?

I assume PetrieOut will also be finalising their phase 2 proposal in the meantime?

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 07:05 AM
I could be wrong, but seem to remember reading that STF had shared with PK the plans the club have in process, but he had asked PK to keep it quiet until they are able to officially announce them?

I assume PetrieOut will also be finalising their phase 2 proposal in the meantime?

I would be happy for an update on phase 1

Gustavo Fring
22-06-2014, 07:15 AM
Once the "establishment" speaks you are wasting your time trying to debate the issue at hand on here IMO! :rolleyes:

post of the day contender :top marks

bingo70
22-06-2014, 07:18 AM
I would be happy for an update on phase 1

Was phase 1 not to politely request the removal of petrie?

Lucius Apuleius
22-06-2014, 07:34 AM
Once the "establishment" speaks you are wasting your time trying to debate the issue at hand on here IMO! :rolleyes:


Oh dear.

Lucius Apuleius
22-06-2014, 07:34 AM
post of the day contender :top marks

Oh dear, oh dear.

Gustavo Fring
22-06-2014, 07:49 AM
Oh dear, oh dear.

right on cue :not worth

RIP
22-06-2014, 07:58 AM
To be honest we are only in Round 2. This contest will drag on until Petrie leaves. No one man is bigger than Hibernian FC.

Moon unit
22-06-2014, 08:00 AM
Of course they were out manoeuvred. This was always going to be the case.

Petrie is a master when it comes to stifling an angry mob or protest group and has succeeded in doing so on more than one occasion.

This time is no different than any of the other times that fans have been upset after another poor season. A short out burst of anger, which is quickly extinguished by the same false hopes and promises we hear over and over again.

Obviously (like everybody else) I hope that this time will be different. But its just hard to see how that is even possible while Petrie still lingers.


This is will not go away!...the difference was that it was not a small mob that protested,but thousands of good Hibbies! National and international coverage was given to the event. Even TF would not have been able to ignore this! Too many people on this forum (not including yourself) have made snide remarks about Paul Kane about his role...he should be applauded from the rooftops as he has the Balls to take on the stiffs that lurk around within the boardroom...full credit to the man !
:flag:

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 08:07 AM
Was phase 1 not to politely request the removal of petrie?

I always thought phase 1 was to ensure the REMOVAL of Rod Petrie, not just request it.

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 08:15 AM
This is will not go away!...the difference was that it was not a small mob that protested,but thousands of good Hibbies! National and international coverage was given to the event. Even TF would not have been able to ignore this! Too many people on this forum (not including yourself) have made snide remarks about Paul Kane about his role...he should be applauded from the rooftops as he has the Balls to take on the stiffs that lurk around within the boardroom...full credit to the man !
:flag:

I fully support Paul and the other guys in their aim to remove Petrie, I want to make that clear.

However as I said in my original post from where I sit - a long way away, granted- the campaign appears to have stalled.

Spike Mandela
22-06-2014, 08:20 AM
Petrie has turned the club into a mirror image of himself...boring, uncommunicative, cautious, lacking flair, bean counting as priority and a greater opinion of ourselves than we merit but all with a professional veneer.

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 08:31 AM
To misquote Edmund of Bladders Slack: He's as cunning as a fox that's just been made Professor of cunning at Oxford University.

STF and RP are hardened businessmen, they were always going to have the upper hand over Kano and his mob. Now we will just sit back and watch things peter out.

A one-off demonstration during the off-season was always going to have minimal impact on STF and RP. The non purchase of STs directly hurts the club but will have little effect on RP who will just reduce the budget to reflect the reduced revenue.

Going back to the New Manager thread, we had a Jambo take a photo of RP in a city centre pub enjoying himself without any hassle by Hibs supporters whatsoever.

As far as I can see there is no PETRIE OOT campaign. It appears that Kano's silence has been bought out.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 08:31 AM
Once the "establishment" speaks you are wasting your time trying to debate the issue at hand on here IMO! :rolleyes:

See I would argue the exact opposite, assuming I've correctly interpreted what you mean by 'establishment'.

I'm broadly in agreement with Peevemor's stance, but few people actually seem to read what he has to say, choosing instead to throw petty insults at him for daring take a more moderate view. Over the past few weeks this board has been flooded with posts trying to find different ways of saying the same old thing, or just repeating the same old thing anyway - the 'establishment' as you put it has been completely drowned out.

It's boring, depressing, damaging to our club and in the short term, it ain't gonna work. If you want Petrie out (and I believe he should leave) you need to start picking your battles carefully, and picking ones that you can win.

Ronniekirk
22-06-2014, 08:38 AM
From where I view things anyway.

Have Petrie and Farmer effectively killed off the campaign by obtaining the commitment for 'confidentially' after the meeting, when in reality, words and media coverage are the main drivers of the campaign.

Certainly suits Petrie if it's all quiet on the western front I'd suggest?

When there is something to Report we will be updated .
Getting rid of Petrie was never going to happen quickly . They were told to submit written plans so these will be getting worked up and if Farmer is considering selling then he will want discussions confidential until he sees whether any proposal is in his and the Clubs best interest .
I would think Petrie was hoping to groom Leeann and she would at some point buy him out but that is just pure speculation .However the fact he has Headhunted her suggests he thinks highly of her and if her plans come to fruition and she navigates us back up in a season and shows she has made all the big calls correctly then she won't need Rod anymore and she looks like a determined single minded ambitious individual with a ruthless streak so maybe she is our best bet to persuade Rod it's time to move on

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 08:44 AM
When there is something to Report we will be updated .
Getting rid of Petrie was never going to happen quickly . They were told to submit written plans so these will be getting worked up and if Farmer is considering selling then he will want discussions confidential until he sees whether any proposal is in his and the Clubs best interest .
I would think Petrie was hoping to groom Leeann and she would at some point buy him out but that is just pure speculation .However the fact he has Headhunted her suggests he thinks highly of her and if her plans come to fruition and she navigates us back up in a season and shows she has made all the big calls correctly then she won't need Rod anymore and she looks like a determined single minded ambitious individual with a ruthless streak so maybe she is our best bet to persuade Rod it's time to move on

No disrespect, but I don't think Ms Dempster ever had, or will have intentions of buying Rod Petrie,s shares.

She is pursuing her career as the CEO, an employee of the club, and I don' think she has any intentions of embarking on any kind of management buy out.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 08:59 AM
See I would argue the exact opposite, assuming I've correctly interpreted what you mean by 'establishment'.

I'm broadly in agreement with Peevemor's stance, but few people actually seem to read what he has to say, choosing instead to throw petty insults at him for daring take a more moderate view. Over the past few weeks this board has been flooded with posts trying to find different ways of saying the same old thing, or just repeating the same old thing anyway - the 'establishment' as you put it has been completely drowned out.

It's boring, depressing, damaging to our club and in the short term, it ain't gonna work. If you want Petrie out (and I believe he should leave) you need to start picking your battles carefully, and picking ones that you can win.

Got my tin hat on, and ready for the GTF Petrie post's.

It will be interesting to see the stage 2,3 proposal's.

Kano is a good Hibby - but not a clue as to how to run a football club like Hibs.

Simon has had an agenda against STF and RP from day one - that's how he makes his living - don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Mike Reilly - seems to love the media spotlight - don't think he offers more than sound bites for David Hardie.

I've said before if STF was in talks regarding selling the club, and the plan's were secret this board would exploed.

LD is getting on with the job - lets focus on that, and get behind the club.

Jack
22-06-2014, 09:00 AM
Paul Kane has been on holiday = Paul Kane has been quiet.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 09:13 AM
To misquote Edmund of Bladders Slack: He's as cunning as a fox that's just been made Professor of cunning at Oxford University.

STF and RP are hardened businessmen, they were always going to have the upper hand over Kano and his mob. Now we will just sit back and watch things peter out.

A one-off demonstration during the off-season was always going to have minimal impact on STF and RP. The non purchase of STs directly hurts the club but will have little effect on RP who will just reduce the budget to reflect the reduced revenue.

Going back to the New Manager thread, we had a Jambo take a photo of RP in a city centre pub enjoying himself without any hassle by Hibs supporters whatsoever.

As far as I can see there is no PETRIE OOT campaign. It appears that Kano's silence has been bought out.

Are you suggesting Hibs fans should be leaning over Petrie when he is eating, making life unpleasant for him? Or is it Jambos taking photographs that should be getting hassled?

Onion
22-06-2014, 09:16 AM
This is no different to failed politicians. Simple response is to ride it out in the hope that it just goes away. Those that eventually resign are those that cannot shake off the media pressure. Football fans are fickle and have ultra short memories. A couple of decent signings or a home win will soon get these pesky fans off Petrie's back - he knows it, STF knows it.

Kano's plan appears to be "make it up as we go along" starting with a an out of season protest. There's no momentum and the agenda has moved on. Petrie has survived (again).

GreenArmy1875
22-06-2014, 09:21 AM
Rod Petrie played it very well. Everyone wanted change at the top he has brought in LD to inspire and get people on board and sacked Butcher. He has done this for years any time pressure is mounting on him. Sacks the manager gives a bulls**t statement signs a couple of ex players and its all hail Sir Rod. I want him gone too but unless we keep the pressure on nothing will change.

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 09:24 AM
This is no different to failed politicians. Simple response is to ride it out in the hope that it just goes away. Those that eventually resign are those that cannot shake off the media pressure. Football fans are fickle and have ultra short memories. A couple of decent signings or a home win will soon get these pesky fans off Petrie's back - he knows it, STF knows it.

Kano's plan appears to be "make it up as we go along" starting with a an out of season protest. There's no momentum and the agenda has moved on. Petrie has survived (again).

Agree with most of what you generalise about, but knowing Kano and a couple of the others involved, I would be both surprised and disappointed if the 'make it up as we go along.' comment applied.

The current silence DOES bother me, hence my original post - guess well just have to hope that things are afoot behind the scenes and an announcement is hopefully made soon.

Otherwise....:confused:

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 09:27 AM
Agree with most of what you generalise about, but knowing Kano and a couple of the others involved, I would be both surprised and disappointed if the 'make it up as we go along.' comment applied.

The current silence DOES bother me, hence my original post - guess well just have to hope that things are afoot behind the scenes and an announcement is hopefully made soon.

Otherwise....:confused:

Fred maybe you could expand on your knowledge of "Kano and a couple of others" experience in running a business with a multi million pound turnover?

1987kev
22-06-2014, 09:32 AM
Kane and co knew they couldn't get Petrie out but used it in there favour to launch a bid for the club.

FranckSuzy
22-06-2014, 09:34 AM
To misquote Edmund of Bladders Slack: He's as cunning as a fox that's just been made Professor of cunning at Oxford University.

STF and RP are hardened businessmen, they were always going to have the upper hand over Kano and his mob. Now we will just sit back and watch things peter out.

A one-off demonstration during the off-season was always going to have minimal impact on STF and RP. The non purchase of STs directly hurts the club but will have little effect on RP who will just reduce the budget to reflect the reduced revenue.

Going back to the New Manager thread, we had a Jambo take a photo of RP in a city centre pub enjoying himself without any hassle by Hibs supporters whatsoever.

As far as I can see there is no PETRIE OOT campaign. It appears that Kano's silence has been bought out.

Said photo was over a year old and also showed a 'lady' making the 5-1 gesture so not sure it's relevant here..............? :aok:

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 09:35 AM
Kane and co knew they couldn't get Petrie out but used it in there favour to launch a bid for the club.

So who is taking on the secured debts of approx. £6m for the stadium mortgages - Kano?

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 09:40 AM
Fred maybe you could expand on your knowledge of "Kano and a couple of others" experience in running a business with a multi million pound turnover?

I have a mate who posts on here, he run and part owned a business thats global :greengrin and dwarfs Hibs turn over. He thinks the way Hibs have been run has been a shambles, who can argue with him on that score?

Its starting to become apparent that, some folk on here think only STF and Petrie can run a business with a turnover of around £8m, when that is just not the case.

In fact my mate started his company off from nothing. What is clear is we need real change at the club, not just a tinkering of one or two bits of it.

While Petrie is at the club, there is still a divide that some people wont ever close. And in my opinion its time for Petrie to go, and STF to follow him.

Could any new owners even rookie owners do any worse than the current ones, i mean for a start they might actually care about the club enough to be involved daily. They might actually be approachable and answerable to the support and give us the idea they actually care what happens to our club.

Any new owner might also be hopeless, but FFS this real life apathy thats riddled right through the club needs to change, and the only way to change it is a new owner and for Petrie to go.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 09:44 AM
I have a mate who posts on here, he run and part owned a business thats global :greengrin and dwarfs Hibs turn over. He thinks the way Hibs have been run has been a shambles, who can argue with him on that score?

Its starting to become apparent that, some folk on here think only STF and Petrie can run a business with a turnover of around £8m, when that is just not the case.

In fact my mate started his company off from nothing. What is clear is we need real change at the club, not just a tinkering of one or two bits of it.

While Petrie is at the club, there is still a divide that some people wont ever close. And in my opinion its time for Petrie to go, and STF to follow him.

Could any new owners even rookie owners do any worse than the current ones, i mean for a start they might actually care about the club enough to be involved daily. They might actually be approachable and answerable to the support and give us the idea they actually care what happens to our club.

Any new owner might also be hopeless, but FFS this real life apathy thats riddled right through the club needs to change, and the only way to change it is a new owner and for Petrie to go.

Really - lets hear who it is.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 09:47 AM
This is no different to failed politicians. Simple response is to ride it out in the hope that it just goes away. Those that eventually resign are those that cannot shake off the media pressure. Football fans are fickle and have ultra short memories. A couple of decent signings or a home win will soon get these pesky fans off Petrie's back - he knows it, STF knows it.

Kano's plan appears to be "make it up as we go along" starting with a an out of season protest. There's no momentum and the agenda has moved on. Petrie has survived (again).


Rod Petrie played it very well. Everyone wanted change at the top he has brought in LD to inspire and get people on board and sacked Butcher. He has done this for years any time pressure is mounting on him. Sacks the manager gives a bulls**t statement signs a couple of ex players and its all hail Sir Rod. I want him gone too but unless we keep the pressure on nothing will change.[/]

FACT.

[QUOTE=DarlingtonHibee;4071945]Fred maybe you could expand on your knowledge of "Kano and a couple of others" experience in running a business with a multi million pound turnover?

Theyll pick it up as they go along. Look how quickly they worked out what mandates and business plans are.


Kane and co knew they couldn't get Petrie out but used it in there favour to launch a bid for the club.

Right, it's just that they said they only had one objective.


So who is taking on the secured debts of approx. £6m for the stadium mortgages - Kano?

We will owe it to ourselves.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 09:48 AM
I have a mate who posts on here, he run and part owned a business thats global :greengrin and dwarfs Hibs turn over. He thinks the way Hibs have been run has been a shambles, who can argue with him on that score?

Its starting to become apparent that, some folk on here think only STF and Petrie can run a business with a turnover of around £8m, when that is just not the case.

In fact my mate started his company off from nothing. What is clear is we need real change at the club, not just a tinkering of one or two bits of it.

While Petrie is at the club, there is still a divide that some people wont ever close. And in my opinion its time for Petrie to go, and STF to follow him.

Could any new owners even rookie owners do any worse than the current ones, i mean for a start they might actually care about the club enough to be involved daily. They might actually be approachable and answerable to the support and give us the idea they actually care what happens to our club.

Any new owner might also be hopeless, but FFS this real life apathy thats riddled right through the club needs to change, and the only way to change it is a new owner and for Petrie to go.

I don't think they are the only ones that can do it. I just don't think Kano can.

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 09:50 AM
Really - lets hear who it is.

So what criteria would any prospective new owner have to satisfy before you considered him/her better than the current lot?

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 09:53 AM
Fred maybe you could expand on your knowledge of "Kano and a couple of others" experience in running a business with a multi million pound turnover?

I could, but I won't as the post was referring to the "Petrie Out" campaign, ie the removal of Rod Petrie, not the ownership of Hiberniin Football Club being taken over by them.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 09:55 AM
I don't think they are the only ones that can do it. I just don't think Kano can.

I dont think Kano would be the one running the club, he's just the front man is he not?

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 09:58 AM
I dont think Kano would be the one running the club, he's just the front man is he not?

I don't know, this group have a credibility problem, for me. That's down to their amateurish approach, and the fact that their story seems to change as they go along.

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 09:58 AM
Really - lets hear who it is.

Easy..he's obviously referring to his mate Richard:hibees

easty
22-06-2014, 10:02 AM
So what criteria would any prospective new owner have to satisfy before you considered him/her better than the current lot?

Having any sort of criteria at all would be a start I suppose.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 10:06 AM
I don't know, this group have a credibility problem, for me. That's down to their amateurish approach, and the fact that their story seems to change as they go along.

They were slaughtered for only having the Petrie out as their main theme. In fact folk were clamoring to know if they got what they wanted then what was next?

A proper plan to take over the club cant just be thrown together in a couple of days, and it must be a very difficult job to get it all right, and keep everyone happy at the same time.

This is never going to be as straight as a b c, with so many fractions they will never get it right for some.

Even if they fail, it could flush out someone else who has the ability and the knowledge it takes to make a proper takeover happen.

WhileTheChief..
22-06-2014, 10:07 AM
It was never a campaign in the first place, it was just a lot of anger being vented.

Thankfully most folk have moved on to enjoy the World Cup and look forward to a new manager, new players and a fresh start under LD and, by the looks of it, Alan Stubbs.

RP is an irrelevance now apart from being someone to take the blame for any ills in the future. Quite canny of LD to keep him around really!

easty
22-06-2014, 10:07 AM
I don't know, this group have a credibility problem, for me. That's down to their amateurish approach, and the fact that their story seems to change as they go along.

Totally agree FR.

The day before the protest I posted on here that I wasn't going because I had no idea exactly what the protest was to achieve, a few folk said it's to get rid of Petrie, and that's all.

The next day the chat is that Kane wants a meeting about a takeover. If that was the plan before the protest then we should have been told. Either they don't know what they're doing, or they deliberately didn't tell people the whole story.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 10:08 AM
I could, but I won't as the post was referring to the "Petrie Out" campaign, ie the removal of Rod Petrie, not the ownership of Hiberniin Football Club being taken over by them.

Aah right - this is getting more like the Masons every day :blah:

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 10:12 AM
It was never a campaign in the first place, it was just a lot of anger being vented.

Thankfully most folk have moved on to enjoy the World Cup and look forward to a new manager, new players and a fresh start under LD and, by the looks of it, Alan Stubbs.

RP is an irrelevance now apart from being someone to take the blame for any ills in the future. Quite canny of LD to keep him around really!

She has no control over whether RP stays or goes....she is but an employee and he is board member and second highest shareholder.

Not a case of LD being canny or not.....it's not up to her.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 10:14 AM
So what criteria would any prospective new owner have to satisfy before you considered him/her better than the current lot?

Open, honest, and a long term secure strategy for the club - it is a business as well as having the emotional tag of being a football club.

Re RP the one criticism I would have is communications, but he is an accountant, and their profiles don't suit communications - CWG and CG excluded :greengrin

WhileTheChief..
22-06-2014, 10:19 AM
She has no control over whether RP stays or goes....she is but an employee and he is board member and second highest shareholder.

Not a case of LD being canny or not.....it's not up to her.

For crying out loud, it was a tongue in cheek comment, hence the !!!

What I'm saying is that with RP around he will get the blame for everything that goes wrong whilst LD will get the praise for anything that works well.

Take Stubbs as an example. If he's successful everyone will praise LDs judgement but if he's another Butcher then folk will claim it was RP interfering.

It's like good cop / bad cop!

Peevemor
22-06-2014, 10:39 AM
For crying out loud, it was a tongue in cheek comment, hence the !!!

What I'm saying is that with RP around he will get the blame for everything that goes wrong whilst LD will get the praise for anything that works well.

Take Stubbs as an example. If he's successful everyone will praise LDs judgement but if he's another Butcher then folk will claim it was RP interfering.

It's like good cop / bad cop!

:agree: and it wouldn't surprise me if that's one of the reasons why he's sticking around. He never seeks the limelight (even on the odd occasion when things are going well) and IMHO is prepared to take some flack if it lets others get on with their job.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 10:48 AM
I dont think Kano would be the one running the club, he's just the front man is he not?


They were slaughtered for only having the Petrie out as their main theme. In fact folk were clamoring to know if they got what they wanted then what was next?

A proper plan to take over the club cant just be thrown together in a couple of days, and it must be a very difficult job to get it all right, and keep everyone happy at the same time.

This is never going to be as straight as a b c, with so many fractions they will never get it right for some.

Even if they fail, it could flush out someone else who has the ability and the knowledge it takes to make a proper takeover happen.

This is what makes me uneasy about the Kane mutiny. To take the attitude that is frequently adopted towards Petrie, we have a group of shady businessmen pulling Paul Kane's strings while staying in the background themselves. They've started out on the single issue of Petrie out while all along they had a hidden agenda, and in doing so they have worked an already angry mob into a frenzy. In other words they are manipulating both Paul Kane and the fans.

Would all this have happened if we had avoided relegation or is it a knee-jerk reaction? If the former, why was there no wind of it until the end of the season; if the latter, are they equipped for the peace if they win the war? From the outside this campaign looks like a shambles and gives me no confidence that the people hiding behind Paul Kane are the right people to take our club forward. Do the fans not deserve to know who they are?

For the record I would welcome the right people buying out Sir Tom Farmer and removing as much of the current board as they deemed necessary - I would hope they'd retain Leeann Dempster though. I'm yet to be convinced that these are the right people, and in any case it's not going to happen tomorrow or the next day. In the meantime the club has a promotion to chase - that's the pressing issue.

GlenrothesHibee
22-06-2014, 10:51 AM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

I am of the same opinion. Whole thing was embarrassing

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 10:58 AM
For crying out loud, it was a tongue in cheek comment, hence the !!!



Apologies then Wtc.

However, it is difficult to distinguish between what is said in jest and what is not I have discovered in this matter, as even some of the main players seem unsure how the corporate governance structure works

There were some, and for all Iknow may still be some who think Ld has the power to sack RP!

Obviously you arenot one of them.

Rasta_Hibs
22-06-2014, 10:58 AM
I am of the same opinion. Whole thing was embarrassing

Hmm its no more embarrassing than the empty seats that will be on show due fan staying away if he continues.

John_the_angus_hibby
22-06-2014, 11:00 AM
To misquote Edmund of Bladders Slack: He's as cunning as a fox that's just been made Professor of cunning at Oxford University.

STF and RP are hardened businessmen, they were always going to have the upper hand over Kano and his mob. Now we will just sit back and watch things peter out.

A one-off demonstration during the off-season was always going to have minimal impact on STF and RP. The non purchase of STs directly hurts the club but will have little effect on RP who will just reduce the budget to reflect the reduced revenue.

Going back to the New Manager thread, we had a Jambo take a photo of RP in a city centre pub enjoying himself without any hassle by Hibs supporters whatsoever.

As far as I can see there is no PETRIE OOT campaign. It appears that Kano's silence has been bought out.

Er the photo was a year old.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 11:03 AM
Open, honest, and a long term secure strategy for the club - it is a business as well as having the emotional tag of being a football club.

Re RP the one criticism I would have is communications, but he is an accountant, and their profiles don't suit communications - CWG and CG excluded :greengrin

One thing we surely can agree on Dh, and that is with the possible exception of the Duff/ Gray partnership...and I'm not even sure about that - that under the current owners we in as big a shambles as We ever have been

John_the_angus_hibby
22-06-2014, 11:05 AM
This is what makes me uneasy about the Kane mutiny. To take the attitude that is frequently adopted towards Petrie, we have a group of shady businessmen pulling Paul Kane's strings while staying in the background themselves. They've started out on the single issue of Petrie out while all along they had a hidden agenda, and in doing so they have worked an already angry mob into a frenzy. In other words they are manipulating both Paul Kane and the fans.

Would all this have happened if we had avoided relegation or is it a knee-jerk reaction? If the former, why was there no wind of it until the end of the season; if the latter, are they equipped for the peace if they win the war? From the outside this campaign looks like a shambles and gives me no confidence that the people hiding behind Paul Kane are the right people to take our club forward. Do the fans not deserve to know who they are?

For the record I would welcome the right people buying out Sir Tom Farmer and removing as much of the current board as they deemed necessary - I would hope they'd retain Leeann Dempster though. I'm yet to be convinced that these are the right people, and in any case it's not going to happen tomorrow or the next day. In the meantime the club has a promotion to chase - that's the pressing issue.

Agree, but I would go further than "not sure" they are the right people to take over, as I am 100% sure they are not. Basically because I have no data and so the only behavioural evidence this far is shadiness. It's OK people "in the know" tipping the rest of us mere mortals a wink, but when it comes to our/my club that does not wash.

If someone is serious then come out and be open.


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Kaff
22-06-2014, 11:09 AM
Paul Kane has been on holiday = Paul Kane has been quiet.

Tbh if he is on holiday that is poor form. Light the touch paper and then slink off on holiday while a lot of folk are wondering what phase 1 & 2 mean? This is the amateurism and even lack of transparency that many are worried about from this group demanding huge change at the club.
Of course he's entitled to go on holiday but someone should be updating us on any progress (even if there happens to be none)

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 11:10 AM
They were slaughtered for only having the Petrie out as their main theme. In fact folk were clamoring to know if they got what they wanted then what was next?

A proper plan to take over the club cant just be thrown together in a couple of days, and it must be a very difficult job to get it all right, and keep everyone happy at the same time.

This is never going to be as straight as a b c, with so many fractions they will never get it right for some.

Even if they fail, it could flush out someone else who has the ability and the knowledge it takes to make a proper takeover happen.

Too difficult a job for them, IMO. I am probably wrong about their abilities, or being over cautious. It just seems to me their performance up till this point, means I'm looking for a more trustworthy opponent to Farmer.


Totally agree FR.

The day before the protest I posted on here that I wasn't going because I had no idea exactly what the protest was to achieve, a few folk said it's to get rid of Petrie, and that's all.

The next day the chat is that Kane wants a meeting about a takeover. If that was the plan before the protest then we should have been told. Either they don't know what they're doing, or they deliberately didn't tell people the whole story.

I think it sums up the schoolboy approach by the Kane Gang.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 11:20 AM
This is what makes me uneasy about the Kane mutiny. To take the attitude that is frequently adopted towards Petrie, we have a group of shady businessmen pulling Paul Kane's strings while staying in the background themselves. They've started out on the single issue of Petrie out while all along they had a hidden agenda, and in doing so they have worked an already angry mob into a frenzy. In other words they are manipulating both Paul Kane and the fans.

Would all this have happened if we had avoided relegation or is it a knee-jerk reaction? If the former, why was there no wind of it until the end of the season; if the latter, are they equipped for the peace if they win the war? From the outside this campaign looks like a shambles and gives me no confidence that the people hiding behind Paul Kane are the right people to take our club forward. Do the fans not deserve to know who they are?

For the record I would welcome the right people buying out Sir Tom Farmer and removing as much of the current board as they deemed necessary - I would hope they'd retain Leeann Dempster though. I'm yet to be convinced that these are the right people, and in any case it's not going to happen tomorrow or the next day. In the meantime the club has a promotion to chase - that's the pressing issue.

Cav, its not really a Kane mutiny is it?, This has been brewing for a number of years, and the attitude towards Petrie is hardly a knee jerk reaction.

I agree with you and others who have reservations about this, and they really do need to come out soon and tell us all what the plan is.

I personally think the campaign to get Petrie out should continue, and as you say any buy out could take quite a while, but the main aim of Kano's 1st plan was to get him out. And the strength of support for this was shown a couple of weeks ago, and that's something that should not be forgotten in all this.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 11:33 AM
Maybe people have just had a dose of reality and accepted that Petrie being non-exec chairman makes sense.

Lucius Apuleius
22-06-2014, 11:40 AM
right on cue :not worth

As I said, oh dear. Part of theestablishment? LOL.

Eyrie
22-06-2014, 11:40 AM
The problem started when "Phase two" was mentioned without any detail.

The entire campaign should have been limited to Petrie's resignation and not obscured by rumours of anything more being involved. Only once Petrie had accepted responsibility for his many mistakes culminating in Butcher's appointment should anything else have even been considered.

Petrie needs to go, but I can't see that happening now.

NAE NOOKIE
22-06-2014, 11:50 AM
Amazing:

People are saying the Petrie out campaign has stalled because nobody has heard anything ..... even though its common knowledge that at the request of STF details of the meeting between the two parties involved were kept confidential.

Folk saying that Kane and the rest are just being used as puppets by some nefarious shady characters lurking in the shadows and accusing members of Kano's group of having ulterior motives ..... which can only mean not having the good of Hibs at heart. So in a nutshell these unknown folk are making mugs of Kano et al, and Kano and his group are making mugs of Pat Stanton, Jackie McNamara etc. If so, what is the end game? ...... what do all these folk want for Hibs if Hibs are just a means to some other end? Perhaps those chucking this stuff about will enlighten us.

As for criticism of Kano because Hibs is a business with a turn over of £8,000,000 a year and his group couldn't handle that .... lets put the size of Hibs into perspective here .... my wee brother runs a man with a van business on Merseyside and turns over about £100,000 per annum. In perspective that hardly makes Hibs ICI does it.

I'm fair enjoying the World cup and looking forward to Hibs getting a new manager and 'please Lord' signing some decent players .... but if the Petrie out campaign announced they were holding another rally at ER in 2 hours from now I would be digging out the car keys.

WestStandMoaner
22-06-2014, 12:10 PM
Maybe people have just had a dose of reality and accepted that Petrie being non-exec chairman makes sense.

The only reality is Petrie is bad for Hibs, If Petrie had Hibs at heart he would have resigned, Kano has made a mistake giving STF confidentiality, the campaign had to be full on and STF has played a blinder. The silence from the Petrie Out campaign has weakened if not stopped it. However, what amazes me is how so many on here think the only Farmer and Petrie can run Hibs.

FARMER OUT, PETRIE OUT

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 01:00 PM
Er the photo was a year old.

Was it? I assume the Wifie doing the 5-1 hand jive was photo-shopped into the foreground by some yam looking to cause mischief.

My point still stands about nobody hassling RP. He still has it cushy.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 01:05 PM
Cav, its not really a Kane mutiny is it?, This has been brewing for a number of years, and the attitude towards Petrie is hardly a knee jerk reaction.

I agree with you and others who have reservations about this, and they really do need to come out soon and tell us all what the plan is.

I personally think the campaign to get Petrie out should continue, and as you say any buy out could take quite a while, but the main aim of Kano's 1st plan was to get him out. And the strength of support for this was shown a couple of weeks ago, and that's something that should not be forgotten in all this.

I was using the Kane mutiny thing as a 'clever' play on words - wasted with this audience :duck:. I agree the Petrie out side of things has been rumbling on for years - in fact, not long after the split I decided that as soon as we were mathematically safe from relegation I would start a thread laying out reasons why I thought Petrie should resign, but circumstances overtook that thought. The apparent buy out is a new thing though (at least in specific terms), and I'm not impressed by the way they've gone about it so far. If they want support they need to tell us what it is we would be supporting.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 01:13 PM
One thing we surely can agree on Dh, and that is with the possible exception of the Duff/ Gray partnership...and I'm not even sure about that - that under the current owners we in as big a shambles as We ever have been

Fred, you really believe that ? Put the Fosters and class A drugs away.

Put up with the names of these so called saviours of Hibs that you claim to know.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 01:19 PM
Amazing:

People are saying the Petrie out campaign has stalled because nobody has heard anything ..... even though its common knowledge that at the request of STF details of the meeting between the two parties involved were kept confidential.

Folk saying that Kane and the rest are just being used as puppets by some nefarious shady characters lurking in the shadows and accusing members of Kano's group of having ulterior motives ..... which can only mean not having the good of Hibs at heart. So in a nutshell these unknown folk are making mugs of Kano et al, and Kano and his group are making mugs of Pat Stanton, Jackie McNamara etc. If so, what is the end game? ...... what do all these folk want for Hibs if Hibs are just a means to some other end? Perhaps those chucking this stuff about will enlighten us.

As for criticism of Kano because Hibs is a business with a turn over of £8,000,000 a year and his group couldn't handle that .... lets put the size of Hibs into perspective here .... my wee brother runs a man with a van business on Merseyside and turns over about £100,000 per annum. In perspective that hardly makes Hibs ICI does it.

I'm fair enjoying the World cup and looking forward to Hibs getting a new manager and 'please Lord' signing some decent players .... but if the Petrie out campaign announced they were holding another rally at ER in 2 hours from now I would be digging out the car keys.

Just to clarify, as I said in my post I was using the sort of approach that has been used against Petrie - still pulling the strings, LD only appointed to take the heat off him etc. - what do you think Petrie wants for Hibs?However, at least some of it is accurate - BH said Kane was just a front man - do we know who he's fronting?

And they have been less than forthcoming so far - they kept stage 2 of their plan a secret until the rally - do we know what stage 3 is yet? My view is that 'petrieout' needs to go on the back burner, because it's not going to succeed in the short term and continuing with it just now is counter-productive - he's more likely to dig in than fold and in the meantime the club is trying to gear up for a very difficult season. If they want to negotiate with STF and Petrie about buying the club then get on with it but if they want my support they need to tell me what I'll be supporting. And stick 'petrieout' where it deserves to be - a sideshow.

DarlingtonHibee
22-06-2014, 01:27 PM
Just to clarify, as I said in my post I was using the sort of approach that has been used against Petrie - still pulling the strings, LD only appointed to take the heat off him etc. - what do you think Petrie wants for Hibs?However, at least some of it is accurate - BH said Kane was just a front man - do we know who he's fronting?

And they have been less than forthcoming so far - they kept stage 2 of their plan a secret until the rally - do we know what stage 3 is yet? My view is that 'petrieout' needs to go on the back burner, because it's not going to succeed in the short term and continuing with it just now is counter-productive - he's more likely to dig in than fold and in the meantime the club is trying to gear up for a very difficult season. If they want to negotiate with STF and Petrie about buying the club then get on with it but if they want my support they need to tell me what I'll be supporting. And stick 'petrieout' where it deserves to be - a sideshow.

Carefull - thats a bit sensible.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 01:40 PM
One thing we surely can agree on Dh, and that is with the possible exception of the Duff/ Gray partnership...and I'm not even sure about that - that under the current owners we in as big a shambles as We ever have been

Beg to differ. Kenny Waugh had us in a far worse state (saved from relegation twice due to league reconstruction). In fact we were in such a bad state that we never asked any questions when Duff and Gray came along with a whole lot of promises.

It sounds worryingly familiar.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 01:45 PM
I was using the Kane mutiny thing as a 'clever' play on words - wasted with this audience :duck:. I agree the Petrie out side of things has been rumbling on for years - in fact, not long after the split I decided that as soon as we were mathematically safe from relegation I would start a thread laying out reasons why I thought Petrie should resign, but circumstances overtook that thought. The apparent buy out is a new thing though (at least in specific terms), and I'm not impressed by the way they've gone about it so far. If they want support they need to tell us what it is we would be supporting.

:greengrin Its the use of words like mutiny, and christ even the kind of clothes he's wearing that add to the division we are seeing on this whole episode.

2 thousand fans marched on easter road to protest about the way the club has been run over the years, and to a man they all wanted Petrie out.

The only way for this to happen is to keep the pressure on, but i know it could be counter productive with folk not all being behind the team.

I personally would like to see a buy out, and like yourself i dont really have much faith that Kane can do it. Yet while Petrie is still at the club, there are some folk who see him as the devil, me being one of them.

If we are to go forward together, STF and Petrie must know its not going to happen with Petrie there, as nothing that Petrie says or does anymore is believed by a lot of Hibs fans.

I dont see our problems disappearing by doing nothing, and any buy out that may be on the agenda will take a long time imo.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 01:46 PM
Just to clarify, as I said in my post I was using the sort of approach that has been used against Petrie - still pulling the strings, LD only appointed to take the heat off him etc. - what do you think Petrie wants for Hibs?However, at least some of it is accurate - BH said Kane was just a front man - do we know who he's fronting?

And they have been less than forthcoming so far - they kept stage 2 of their plan a secret until the rally - do we know what stage 3 is yet? My view is that 'petrieout' needs to go on the back burner, because it's not going to succeed in the short term and continuing with it just now is counter-productive - he's more likely to dig in than fold and in the meantime the club is trying to gear up for a very difficult season. If they want to negotiate with STF and Petrie about buying the club then get on with it but if they want my support they need to tell me what I'll be supporting. And stick 'petrieout' where it deserves to be - a sideshow.

I know which party is coming across as more trustworthy. I still think he has to go though, because there is a faction that demand it now.

I just get uneasy at the blind faith that some are showing towards the rebels. Ultimately these ate the people that will divide the support, having dug themselves so far into a hole they can't get out.

Already, we are seeing people making excuses for Kane and co. The only evidence being offered in support, is that Pat Stanton is involved, so if we question Kane and MacLean, we must be anti-Paddy.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2014, 01:50 PM
Once the "establishment" speaks you are wasting your time trying to debate the issue at hand on here IMO! :rolleyes:

:confused:

Don't you need to hear 2 sides in a debate?

If folk can't counter "the establishment" argument, where does the fault lie?

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 01:52 PM
I know which party is coming across as more trustworthy. I still think he has to go though, because there is a faction that demand it now.

I just get uneasy at the blind faith that some are showing towards the rebels. Ultimately these ate the people that will divide the support, having dug themselves so far into a hole they can't get out.

Already, we are seeing people making excuses for Kane and co. The only evidence being offered in support, is that Pat Stanton is involved, so if we question Kane and MacLean, we must be anti-Paddy.

I'm not pro Kane or Pro Pat Stanton, i'm anti Petrie. I'm not even that bothered at this moment in time if we are bought out, although i'd like a different owner.

Only a few weeks ago there was a very large rally to oust Petrie, my opinion has not changed.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 01:56 PM
I'm not pro Kane or Pro Pat Stanton, i'm anti Petrie. I'm not even that bothered at this moment in time if we are bought out, although i'd like a different owner.

Only a few weeks ago there was a very large rally to oust Petrie, my opinion has not changed.

The very large rally didn't even add up to 25% of season ticket holders.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2014, 01:57 PM
right on cue :not worth

This is the problem for me.

Too many folk are very able to criticise and mock, but lucid arguments are harder to come by.

I've mainly stayed out of the Petrie must go discussion, partly because I think it's a total waste of time, and I'm glad that I have.

It seems to me that if you're not the angriest Petrie hater in the world, you're labeled as a lackey, a Petrie lover or part of "the establishment".

It's too easy to scream destructive abuse at a pantomime bogeyman.

Coming up with some real and constructive solutions takes a bit more intelligence.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 02:05 PM
:greengrin Its the use of words like mutiny, and christ even the kind of clothes he's wearing that add to the division we are seeing on this whole episode.

2 thousand fans marched on easter road to protest about the way the club has been run over the years, and to a man they all wanted Petrie out.

The only way for this to happen is to keep the pressure on, but i know it could be counter productive with folk not all being behind the team.

I personally would like to see a buy out, and like yourself i dont really have much faith that Kane can do it. Yet while Petrie is still at the club, there are some folk who see him as the devil, me being one of them.

If we are to go forward together, STF and Petrie must know its not going to happen with Petrie there, as nothing that Petrie says or does anymore is believed by a lot of Hibs fans.

I dont see our problems disappearing by doing nothing, and any buy out that may be on the agenda will take a long time imo.

The most frustrating thing for me is that Petrie could go tomorrow without having any effect on the club assuming he really is just the non-exec chairman. There doesn't need to be a stage 2, one of the other directors could take the chair and there would be an immediate improvement in relations. I can understand that STF will still want him there as his 'conduit' though, having worked with him for as long as he has he obviously trusts him and they talk the same language. Neither will take kindly to being told what to do though, and that's why I think the campaign has become counter-productive - I doubt if demands will get them very far with STF, who is really the one that needs persuading.

And I wish Rod would stop using obscure words like 'conduit' when he's addressing thick people. He will be telling STF what goes on at board meetings and relaying STF's thoughts to the board - he's a message boy.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 02:40 PM
The very large rally didn't even add up to 25% of season ticket holders.

Probably more than 50% of current season holders.

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 02:55 PM
Already, we are seeing people making excuses for Kane and co. The only evidence being offered in support, is that Pat Stanton is involved, so if we question Kane and MacLean, we must be anti-Paddy.
This is what I found strange. Was Paddy there because of what he believed or out of friendship?

i will be honest and say that Stanton joining the Kane mutiny added some respectability to what was just a bunch of angry men.

i wear my heart on my sleeve and want PETRIE OOT for the good of the club but I am no supporter of Kane's campaign.

NAE NOOKIE
22-06-2014, 03:08 PM
I know which party is coming across as more trustworthy. I still think he has to go though, because there is a faction that demand it now.

I just get uneasy at the blind faith that some are showing towards the rebels. Ultimately these ate the people that will divide the support, having dug themselves so far into a hole they can't get out.

Already, we are seeing people making excuses for Kane and co. The only evidence being offered in support, is that Pat Stanton is involved, so if we question Kane and MacLean, we must be anti-Paddy.

As far as I can see most of the support want Petrie gone. I for one am too long in the tooth to have blind faith in anything, but the Petrie out campaign needed a focus which these guys have provided. If at any point I think they have anything but the good of the club at heart I will be out. If not agreeing with those who are determined to see ulterior motives and hidden agendas based on little evidence is blind faith, so be it.

Being prepared to give Kano and his group time in order to see what transpires, rather than belittling them at every turn, isn't making excuses for them. Anyway is it not true that the current silence and lack of information is the result of a request from STF and by implication Petrie. Given the fact that this is now being jumped on by some as evidence of a lack of transparency by the Petrie out campaign perhaps they were stupid to agree to it ..... but I'm willing to bet STF and RP made it a condition of even talking .... very clever, or underhanded perhaps.

As for the bit about Pat Stanton: ..... What folk are saying is why would Pat Stanton get involved with a group who didn't want the best for Hibs. Unless you think Pat is stupid or being duped then his involvement with this group gives it credence. I am willing to bet that Pat is as aware of whats going on as the group is, so if he is willing to stick with it I'm willing to believe that things are above board. In view of that criticism of Paul Kane etc is indeed criticism of Pat Stanton ......... but that's fine in my book, if I was in the other camp I wouldn't hesitate if I thought I was right, Hibs legend or not.

If you do indeed think he is being lied to and used by folk who don't have the best intentions for the club then as I said before, please tell us what they are hoping to gain?

The Green Goblin
22-06-2014, 03:22 PM
I think that the Petrie Out leaders clearly moved to strike while the iron was hot in the immediate relegation aftermath. And why not? It was the culmination of a disastrous few years on the pitch.

It seems to me that this same haste has (perhaps temporarily - perhaps not) undone them.

In hindsight, it might have been better to resist the urge to react and take a bit more time but get the right people to lead in place and draw up a credible and detailed plan put together with the input and blessing of as many supporters associations and fans as possible before being open about what that plan was and moving forward with it in a way that would have been sustainable longer term.

Like it or not, the protest feels like a flash in the pan that happened a long time ago and there is still no evidence that those at the head of it have come up with an idea to move forward which will continue to guarantee the ongoing financial security of the club.

I feel that it would be better for the club if RP moved on, as I think his leadership of the club has failed football-wise, but that doesn't mean I will automatically back a protest group simply because they exist. Fair play to them for being prepared to act, but they have to be more open and they have to be a lot more convincing regarding the question of whether or not they know what they are doing and that their plans are viable in ensuring the club's future.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 03:48 PM
As far as I can see most of the support want Petrie gone. I for one am too long in the tooth to have blind faith in anything, but the Petrie out campaign needed a focus which these guys have provided. If at any point I think they have anything but the good of the club at heart I will be out. If not agreeing with those who are determined to see ulterior motives and hidden agendas based on little evidence is blind faith, so be it.

Being prepared to give Kano and his group time in order to see what transpires, rather than belittling them at every turn, isn't making excuses for them. Anyway is it not true that the current silence and lack of information is the result of a request from STF and by implication Petrie. Given the fact that this is now being jumped on by some as evidence of a lack of transparency by the Petrie out campaign perhaps they were stupid to agree to it ..... but I'm willing to bet STF and RP made it a condition of even talking .... very clever, or underhanded perhaps.

As for the bit about Pat Stanton: ..... What folk are saying is why would Pat Stanton get involved with a group who didn't want the best for Hibs. Unless you think Pat is stupid or being duped then his involvement with this group gives it credence. I am willing to bet that Pat is as aware of whats going on as the group is, so if he is willing to stick with it I'm willing to believe that things are above board. In view of that criticism of Paul Kane etc is indeed criticism of Pat Stanton ......... but that's fine in my book, if I was in the other camp I wouldn't hesitate if I thought I was right, Hibs legend or not.

If you do indeed think he is being lied to and used by folk who don't have the best intentions for the club then as I said before, please tell us what they are hoping to gain?

Maybe they're trying to gain the same things as Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 03:52 PM
Probably more than 50% of current season holders.

Fair enough, I think it is dangerous for people to see themselves as representing everyone's views though. If there is no change, and people buy season tickets, will that be seen as an endorsement of Petrie.

If I was him, or STF, I'd be saying "if people are so unhappy, how come they keep coming back?"

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 03:57 PM
Fair enough, I think it is dangerous for people to see themselves as representing everyone's views though. If there is no change, and people buy season tickets, will that be seen as an endorsement of Petrie.

If I was him, or STF, I'd be saying "if people are so unhappy, how come they keep coming back?"

But they are not all coming back are they, around 4-5k down on mowbrays time.

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 03:59 PM
As far as I can see most of the support want Petrie gone. I for one am too long in the tooth to have blind faith in anything, but the Petrie out campaign needed a focus which these guys have provided. If at any point I think they have anything but the good of the club at heart I will be out. If not agreeing with those who are determined to see ulterior motives and hidden agendas based on little evidence is blind faith, so be it.

Being prepared to give Kano and his group time in order to see what transpires, rather than belittling them at every turn, isn't making excuses for them. Anyway is it not true that the current silence and lack of information is the result of a request from STF and by implication Petrie. Given the fact that this is now being jumped on by some as evidence of a lack of transparency by the Petrie out campaign perhaps they were stupid to agree to it ..... but I'm willing to bet STF and RP made it a condition of even talking .... very clever, or underhanded perhaps.

As for the bit about Pat Stanton: ..... What folk are saying is why would Pat Stanton get involved with a group who didn't want the best for Hibs. Unless you think Pat is stupid or being duped then his involvement with this group gives it credence. I am willing to bet that Pat is as aware of whats going on as the group is, so if he is willing to stick with it I'm willing to believe that things are above board. In view of that criticism of Paul Kane etc is indeed criticism of Pat Stanton ......... but that's fine in my book, if I was in the other camp I wouldn't hesitate if I thought I was right, Hibs legend or not.

If you do indeed think he is being lied to and used by folk who don't have the best intentions for the club then as I said before, please tell us what they are hoping to gain?

I think we'll have to wait and see. As I've said, they don't appear too clever. I just wish you'd all keep Paddy out of this.

I didn't say he was being lied to, or used. I didn't really go into what their motives are, only pointed out that - whatever it is they want - its not entirely clear. That might be because they are playing a clever game, or because they are out of their depth.

Bishop Hibee
22-06-2014, 04:01 PM
Fair enough, I think it is dangerous for people to see themselves as representing everyone's views though. If there is no change, and people buy season tickets, will that be seen as an endorsement of Petrie.

If I was him, or STF, I'd be saying "if people are so unhappy, how come they keep coming back?"

Fair point. I'll be there next season as I have already paid 3 installments of my ST. There will be thousands who have waited and will vote with their feet.

The long game is to get Petrie out and find out what Farmer intends do with the club medium-long term. The shambles is there for all to see coming back to pre-season with 15 senior players and no keepers. Many of these players despised by the fans and some previously told to leave. Petrie appointed Butcher and that is the legacy we are left with.

PETRIE OUT!

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 04:02 PM
And I wish Rod would stop using obscure words like 'conduit' when he's addressing thick people. He will be telling STF what goes on at board meetings and relaying STF's thoughts to the board - he's a message boy.

Worth quoting this since it got stuck at the bottom of the last page and people might miss it, as it neatly sums up what Petrie's role at Hibs is now. He won't be drawing a salary or any bonuses etc either.

Therefore, what's the big deal?

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:05 PM
Worth quoting this since it got stuck at the bottom of the last page and people might miss it, as it neatly sums up what Petrie's role at Hibs is now. He won't be drawing a salary or any bonuses etc either.

Therefore, what's the big deal?

My question is why does it have to be Petrie who is the message boy, if its no big deal why cant he piss off and let someone else do that job?

The minute he does leave, Hibs then become a more solid unit all working together, while he's still there its not.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 04:05 PM
But they are not all coming back are they, around 4-5k down on mowbrays time.

And Mowbray's time was 4-5k up on Williamson's tenure. When Hibs are good, we get Mowbray-level crowds. When we're rubbish we get the current level. Nothing to do with Petrie.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:07 PM
And Mowbray's time was 4-5k up on Williamson's tenure. When Hibs are good, we get Mowbray-level crowds. When we're rubbish we get the current level. Nothing to do with Petrie.

Really, are you being serious?

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 04:09 PM
1.0. Mr Paul Kane (Kano) was introduced to all attendees: Sir Tom Farmer (STF) and Mr Rod Petrie (RP).
2.0 STF asked Kano the object of requesting the meeting. Kano replied "We want Petrie Out""
3.0 STF asked if Kano had a plan. Kano replied "naw".
4.0 STF asked if Kano could come up with a plan. Kano replied "aye".
5.0 STF said "very good" and requested that Kano go away and put a plan together but that it had to be kept confidential.
6.0 Kano agreed.
7.0 it was noted that RP said **** all.
8.0 Meeting closed.
9.0 Date of next meeting: 12th of Never,

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 04:14 PM
My question is why does it have to be Petrie who is the message boy, if its no big deal why cant he piss off and let someone else do that job?

The minute he does leave, Hibs then become a more solid unit all working together, while he's still there its not.

The answer to your question is that he's Sir Tom Farmer's choice as message boy.

He who pays the piper gets to choose the message boy.

Persuade Sir Tom - don't demand, persuade.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:18 PM
The answer to your question is that he's Sir Tom Farmer's choice as message boy.

He who pays the piper gets to choose the message boy.

Persuade Sir Tom - don't demand, persuade.

Getting an audience with the pope is easier, Farmer is a stubborn old goat. The only way is by keeping the pressure on in my opinion, and backing the Petrie out campaign.

HappyHibby93
22-06-2014, 04:18 PM
Why?

Are you suggesting the man who's appointed 5 dud managers in a row and singlehandedly sucked all the life and ambition out of our club should stay to oversee yet another new manager and possibly overrule Leanne Dempster when important decisions need to be made?

Seriously?

You out will definitely need your tin hat, oh and look out for the "L T Y F" comments.

For me the campaign is to simplistic. For me, and this of course is just my opinion, everyone seems to think that once Petrie goes, everything will just fall into place, and I don't think it will. For me there have been serious failings in scouting players and youth development. That is where our most serious problems lie. Thankfully, LD seems to have moved quickly to resolve this problem, however, it will take a long time to fix. Petrie will not interfere with LD. I don't think we have to worry about that, as I think Dempster will be more than strong enough to deal with that.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:21 PM
For me the campaign is to simplistic. For me, and this of course is just my opinion, everyone seems to think that once Petrie goes, everything will just fall into place, and I don't think it will. For me there have been serious failings in scouting players and youth development. That is where our most serious problems lie. Thankfully, LD seems to have moved quickly to resolve this problem, however, it will take a long time to fix. Petrie will not interfere with LD. I don't think we have to worry about that, as I think Dempster will be more than strong enough to deal with that.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

Thats a very simplistic take on things if you ask me. Of course things would suddenly not all be rosy in the garden, we'd still be up sheite creek without a paddle, but we be able to unite as one for the first time in a very long time.

ionahibby
22-06-2014, 04:22 PM
Tin hat on here. The Petrie out campaign is a farce. I am not trying to wind people up here, but I think the campaign is a nonsense. I hope it stays quiet.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

I see where you are coming from especially as i didn't agree with the way Kano and co went about things, but they were entitled to protest and were passionate enough to at least do something about it so for that they should be applauded. Calling it a farce is a bit too much though!

greenpaper55
22-06-2014, 04:26 PM
And Mowbray's time was 4-5k up on Williamson's tenure. When Hibs are good, we get Mowbray-level crowds. When we're rubbish we get the current level. Nothing to do with Petrie.

It's the fans fault for not turning up to watch gash !, Petrie must have had nothing to do with picking the crap managers that picked crap players of course !.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 04:29 PM
My question is why does it have to be Petrie who is the message boy, if its no big deal why cant he piss off and let someone else do that job?

The minute he does leave, Hibs then become a more solid unit all working together, while he's still there its not.

If it wasn't him it would be somebody else from STF's business empire who wouldn't have the same knowledge and familiarity of operations at Hibs.

Petrie no longer has anything to do with the day-to-day operations of Hibs, how would replacing him make the club a 'more solid unit all working together'? All it would do would damage the quality of engagement between the club and STF, and provide 'mob justice' for a protest group who won't tell us their medium-long term plans.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 04:30 PM
Getting an audience with the pope is easier, Farmer is a stubborn old goat. The only way is by keeping the pressure on in my opinion, and backing the Petrie out campaign.

'Kano' managed it didn't he?

You're right though he is stubborn - successful people usually are (BTW you're not lacking in the stubborn stakes yourself) and that's why going to him with demands won't work.

Is he more likely to say "Oh, OK then - Rod you're fired." or "You're not coming to me with your dodgy shirt and telling me how to run my business, come back when you're properly dressed and we'll discuss what needs to be done in a civilised manner."?

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:32 PM
If it wasn't him it would be somebody else from STF's business empire who wouldn't have the same knowledge and familiarity of operations at Hibs.

Petrie no longer has anything to do with the day-to-day operations of Hibs, how would replacing him make the club a 'more solid unit all working together'? All it would do would damage the quality of engagement between the club and STF, and provide 'mob justice' for a protest group who won't tell us their medium-long term plans.

Mob justice :faf: disgruntled fans who have had enough of his pish, and an absent owner who we see less often than hayleys comet.

The club is rudderless under both these charlatans, the sooner both are gone the better. Petrie first please and lets keep the mob justice going. :faf:

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:34 PM
'Kano' managed it didn't he?

You're right though he is stubborn - successful people usually are (BTW you're not lacking in the stubborn stakes yourself) and that's why going to him with demands won't work.

Is he more likely to say "Oh, OK then - Rod you're fired." or "You're not coming to me with your dodgy shirt and telling me how to run my business, come back when you're properly dressed and we'll discuss what needs to be done in a civilised manner."?

He did, and why was that Cav? The more pressure the more he has to look at what harm its doing, and there's only one option.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 04:40 PM
Really, are you being serious?

2003/04: 9,137 (Williamson)

2006/07: 14,587 (Peak of Mowbray/Collins)

2013/14: 11,027 (Last season's omnishambles)

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 04:41 PM
He did, and why was that Cav? The more pressure the more he has to look at what harm its doing, and there's only one option.

But the outcome was, Petrie's still in place.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 04:44 PM
Mob justice :faf: disgruntled fans who have had enough of his pish, and an absent owner who we see less often than hayleys comet.

The club is rudderless under both these charlatans, the sooner both are gone the better. Petrie first please and lets keep the mob justice going. :faf:

If you and other similarly minded people want rid of Petrie then someone needs to buy the club from STF. Simple as that.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:52 PM
But the outcome was, Petrie's still in place.

For the moment, i believe keeping the pressure on will get rid of him.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 04:53 PM
If you and other similarly minded people want rid of Petrie then someone needs to buy the club from STF. Simple as that.

You and other similarly minded people keep saying this, but its not set in stone.

Bishop Hibee
22-06-2014, 05:01 PM
If you and other similarly minded people want rid of Petrie then someone needs to buy the club from STF. Simple as that.

No it isn't. Petrie owns 10% of the holding company that owns the club. No guarantee he'd sell if STF did.

We only have guesstimates of what price Farmer would sell his share for. Same goes for Petrie. They should name their price publicly and see what happens. Who announces their house is up for sale but doesn't advertise the price or how to find it out?

Smartie
22-06-2014, 05:17 PM
And Mowbray's time was 4-5k up on Williamson's tenure. When Hibs are good, we get Mowbray-level crowds. When we're rubbish we get the current level. Nothing to do with Petrie.

Williamson was dismantling a highly-paid team and replacing them with kids. He was unpopular but it was a tough job and we hadn't really bought into it. Petrie was probably the driving force behind removing the high earners and playing the kids.

Mowbray took the kids after they'd had a bit of experience, got them playing decent stuff and the crowds flocked. We bought into it.

Petrie/Hibs flogged the kids and got decent cash. We accepted it (largely), Petrie's stock was still relatively high off the back of helping Mowbray create the decent team and we were generally behind this approach. At least we got the money for these players. Fans still reasonably happy with Petrie.

Money invested in infrastructure. Some may agree, some may disagree with the merits of this. More money frittered on panic buys, punting failed managers, constant restructuring of the squad. Year-on-year decline, fans get more fed up. Successive cup finals seriously flatter season tickets sales or we'd have been at panic stage much earlier. Petrie losing support as every year goes by.

Culmination in relegation. Utterly shambolic. Pitifully badly balanced squad, another failed managerial appointment. Fans finally lose patience with Petrie and campaign to oust him starts in earnest.

What is my point? I agree with you that when Hibs play well, the crowds flock to ER and when they play badly they don't. I totally disagree that this has nothing to do with Petrie. More than anyone I would argue, he has influenced our fortunes over the past 10 years. He got very lucky with Mowbray and has failed with every managerial appointment - and failed to adequately back every one, since. Last season's "omnishambles" had his grubby pawprints all over it. The surplus of defensive midfielders, nae wide players, missing out on targets such as Lyle Taylor and Griffiths last summer, a failure to improve the squad in January - all of this reeks of Petrie. No manager worth their salt would have built the squad the way we did.

Petrie has all along played a blinder convincing us that it's been a succession of poor managers who have been to blame. I'm not fooled.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2014, 05:17 PM
No it isn't. Petrie owns 10% of the holding company that owns the club. No guarantee he'd sell if STF did.

We only have guesstimates of what price Farmer would sell his share for. Same goes for Petrie. They should name their price publicly and see what happens. Who announces their house is up for sale but doesn't advertise the price or how to find it out?

If you're actively looking to sell your house, you put a value on it.

I don't think you need to publicise a value in any other circumstances.

My house isn't for sale, but make me a juicy enough offer and I'll sell it to you.

Don't expect any help with the price though.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 05:20 PM
No it isn't. Petrie owns 10% of the holding company that owns the club. No guarantee he'd sell if STF did.

We only have guesstimates of what price Farmer would sell his share for. Same goes for Petrie. They should name their price publicly and see what happens. Who announces their house is up for sale but doesn't advertise the price or how to find it out?

But they're not actively looking to sell the club, nor have they, to my knowledge, announced it is up for sale.

To use your analogy, if someone wanted to buy my house which I was happily living in I'd expect them to tell me how much they're going to offer for it, and if they demanded I tell them how much I want for it I'd laugh in their face.

On the point of Petrie's shareholding, why does it matter? If I bought STF's ~90% I'd get my own man in as Chairman and Petrie would be of no more concern to me than any of the posters on here who own shares in Hibs.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 05:25 PM
Williamson was dismantling a highly-paid team and replacing them with kids. He was unpopular but it was a tough job and we hadn't really bought into it. Petrie was probably the driving force behind removing the high earners and playing the kids.

Mowbray took the kids after they'd had a bit of experience, got them playing decent stuff and the crowds flocked. We bought into it.

Petrie/Hibs flogged the kids and got decent cash. We accepted it (largely), Petrie's stock was still relatively high off the back of helping Mowbray create the decent team and we were generally behind this approach. At least we got the money for these players. Fans still reasonably happy with Petrie.

Money invested in infrastructure. Some may agree, some may disagree with the merits of this. More money frittered on panic buys, punting failed managers, constant restructuring of the squad. Year-on-year decline, fans get more fed up. Successive cup finals seriously flatter season tickets sales or we'd have been at panic stage much earlier. Petrie losing support as every year goes by.

Culmination in relegation. Utterly shambolic. Pitifully badly balanced squad, another failed managerial appointment. Fans finally lose patience with Petrie and campaign to oust him starts in earnest.

What is my point? I agree with you that when Hibs play well, the crowds flock to ER and when they play badly they don't. I totally disagree that this has nothing to do with Petrie. More than anyone I would argue, he has influenced our fortunes over the past 10 years. He got very lucky with Mowbray and has failed with every managerial appointment - and failed to adequately back every one, since. Last season's "omnishambles" had his grubby pawprints all over it. The surplus of defensive midfielders, nae wide players, missing out on targets such as Lyle Taylor and Griffiths last summer, a failure to improve the squad in January - all of this reeks of Petrie. No manager worth their salt would have built the squad the way we did.

Petrie has all along played a blinder convincing us that it's been a succession of poor managers who have been to blame. I'm not fooled.

I was probably a bit flippant with the 'nothing to do with Petrie' comment. I just meant that fans weren't choosing to attend or not attend based on whether or not they supported his presence at the club.

He definitely shoulders a degree of the blame for our present circumstances. How much of the blame should be attributed to him and what consequences he should face are entirely valid issues for reasoned debate.

Stonewall
22-06-2014, 05:30 PM
Why?

Are you suggesting the man who's appointed 5 dud managers in a row and singlehandedly sucked all the life and ambition out of our club should stay to oversee yet another new manager and possibly overrule Leanne Dempster when important decisions need to be made?

Seriously?

You out will definitely need your tin hat, oh and look out for the "L T Y F" comments.

It's perfectly possible to want Petrie out and to to think the campaign is a farce.

I'm glad that there's been silence of late as I have cringed at what they've come up so far.

Hopefully it means there's some serious adult discussions going on and thank god for the cessation of the empty, rabble rousing rhetoric.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2014, 05:32 PM
entirely valid issues for reasoned debate.

Good luck with that! :wink:

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 05:36 PM
On the point of Petrie's shareholding, why does it matter? If I bought STF's ~90% I'd get my own man in as Chairman and Petrie would be of no more concern to me than any of the posters on here who own shares in Hibs.

I agree, RP's shareholding is an irrelevance and is a smokescreen. 87% is the magic number to have outright control of a company (and be entitled to offer to buy the other 13%). RP's 10% is just like any other worker being given shares in the company they works for. It may allow him to use the executive toilets but it gives him zero power except that he is STF's whelp.

The question is: does STF (or the Farmer family) want to sell their shares. I have seen no signs that this the case. Therefore it's same as it ever was, same as it ever was...

Phil D. Rolls
22-06-2014, 05:38 PM
It's perfectly possible to want Petrie out and to to think the campaign is a farce.

I'm glad that there's been silence of late as I have cringed at what they've come up so far.

Hopefully it means there's some serious adult discussions going on and thank god for the cessation of the empty, rabble rousing rhetoric.

:agree:

basehibby
22-06-2014, 05:43 PM
For what it's worth I want to stick my oar in to the debate.

I personally take Petrie's standpoint at it's face value - ie with the arrival of Dempster the operational decision making is now out of his hands. However, I do think that we have come to a point where, regardless of his blame or the lack thereof for our current predicament, his presence on the board has become a negative in that some fans don't see his stepping back to non-executive chairman as enough and are likely to stay away until he is gone. Petrie should therefore be looking for an exit strategy if, as I believe to be the case, he has the good of the club at heart.

It is not as simple as him just packing his stuff and leaving though - Petrie remains partial owner of Hibs with a 10% stake in the club and is entitled as such to some sort of representation at board level. Also, crucially, he retains the backing of the owner of the other 90% who also sees him as his own representative - therefore as such Petrie has a wider responsibility other than just to himself and it would be remiss of him to simply depart the scene. So, what the Petrie out lobby are effectively asking for is at least a partial change of ownership.

This isn't something which can be sorted with a wave of a magic wand - it requires a consortium or individual with a massive wedge to spend - and surely of course we should be able to draw some lessons from the experiences of our Pink neighbours - ie be careful what you wish for - if Petrie and perhaps Farmer as well were to sell their interest in the club then we need to know that whoever the buyer is represents a trust worthy pair of hands to take the club forward - not something you can really go about doing in a hurry!

I am glad that Kano and others have taken a lead on protesting the current state of affairs at Hibs - there's no denying that our relegation was the catastrophic culmination of years of failure on the football pitch and that something needs to change to address this - and they have done a good job of providing a focus for the expression of the anger and frustration of the support. However, I think there's a danger of splitting the support by obsessing over the immediate removal of Petrie when in reality that is not something that we should either want or expect to happen overnight. Change is needed but it needs to be an evolution rather than a revolution and in the meantime this should not distract us from supporting the club right now when our support is desparately needed.

Golden Bear
22-06-2014, 05:49 PM
For what it's worth I want to stick my oar in to the debate.

I personally take Petrie's standpoint at it's face value - ie with the arrival of Dempster the operational decision making is now out of his hands. However, I do think that we have come to a point where, regardless of his blame or the lack thereof for our current predicament, his presence on the board has become a negative in that some fans don't see his stepping back to non-executive chairman as enough and are likely to stay away until he is gone. Petrie should therefore be looking for an exit strategy if, as I believe to be the case, he has the good of the club at heart.

It is not as simple as him just packing his stuff and leaving though - Petrie remains partial owner of Hibs with a 10% stake in the club and is entitled as such to some sort of representation at board level. Also, crucially, he retains the backing of the owner of the other 90% who also sees him as his own representative - therefore as such Petrie has a wider responsibility other than just to himself and it would be remiss of him to simply depart the scene. So, what the Petrie out lobby are effectively asking for is at least a partial change of ownership.

This isn't something which can be sorted with a wave of a magic wand - it requires a consortium or individual with a massive wedge to spend - and surely of course we should be able to draw some lessons from the experiences of our Pink neighbours - ie be careful what you wish for - if Petrie and perhaps Farmer as well were to sell their interest in the club then we need to know that whoever the buyer is represents a trust worthy pair of hands to take the club forward - not something you can really go about doing in a hurry!

I am glad that Kano and others have taken a lead on protesting the current state of affairs at Hibs - there's no denying that our relegation was the catastrophic culmination of years of failure on the football pitch and that something needs to change to address this - and they have done a good job of providing a focus for the expression of the anger and frustration of the support. However, I think there's a danger of splitting the support by obsessing over the immediate removal of Petrie when in reality that is not something that we should either want or expect to happen overnight. Change is needed but it needs to be an evolution rather than a revolution and in the meantime this should not distract us from supporting the club right now when our support is desparately needed.

That's a cracking post but it's far too sensible to be taken seriously on this Messageboard.

:wink:

Smartie
22-06-2014, 05:59 PM
I was probably a bit flippant with the 'nothing to do with Petrie' comment. I just meant that fans weren't choosing to attend or not attend based on whether or not they supported his presence at the club.

He definitely shoulders a degree of the blame for our present circumstances. How much of the blame should be attributed to him and what consequences he should face are entirely valid issues for reasoned debate.


This I agree with 100%.

TornadoHibby
22-06-2014, 06:13 PM
See I would argue the exact opposite, assuming I've correctly interpreted what you mean by 'establishment'.

I'm broadly in agreement with Peevemor's stance, but few people actually seem to read what he has to say, choosing instead to throw petty insults at him for daring take a more moderate view. Over the past few weeks this board has been flooded with posts trying to find different ways of saying the same old thing, or just repeating the same old thing anyway - the 'establishment' as you put it has been completely drowned out.

It's boring, depressing, damaging to our club and in the short term, it ain't gonna work. If you want Petrie out (and I believe he should leave) you need to start picking your battles carefully, and picking ones that you can win.



:confused:

Don't you need to hear 2 sides in a debate?

If folk can't counter "the establishment" argument, where does the fault lie?

I always feel the need to bow to the superior "knowledge" of what happens "backstage" on matters such as the RP OUT" that some chaps appear to have on here and again feel that just now! :wink:

For what it's worth, and my previous posts on the subject will demonstrate that I have always felt that RP micro manages most aspects of Hibs operations to the point where it is wrong to suggest that he is not a huge part of the reason why Hibs are where they find themselves right now. :agree:

This view that I have is based upon discussions I have had with former staff at Hibs and with former colleagues of or people who have worked with RP in his finance life before his life at Hibs.

I am not naming names so little point in asking and if my thoughts are marginalised as a result then that would be another characteristic of what I was referring to as "the Establishment" on here, many of those that will not accept the views of others unless or until "the sources" are "outed"! :rolleyes:

I actually don't give a flying one as to whether anyone falling into that category accepts my view or not!

However, that said, I have also stated in many previous posts that IMO RP will not give up his "right of (effective) veto" on material decision making at Hibs, despite what LD might say as he part owns the club and will do nothing unless he feels that it will improve his personal overall position at Hibs, particularly regarding the value of his shareholding IMO! :agree:

The fans based campaign has only a chance of succeeding if that is taken care of for RP and what are the chances of STF and his "trusted lieutenant" sell out to an incoming investor group that they believe will look after the longer term interests of the average Hibs supporters whilst looking after their own shorter term interests of getting the best value for their shares as they can get!

What type of market exists and how big is it for that kind of deal from potential investors in Scottish (Championship) Football?

Over and out!

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 06:31 PM
It's not a case of him having to 'give up' his veto. He quite simply doesn't have it any more.

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 06:34 PM
For the moment, i believe keeping the pressure on will get rid of him.

We're clearly never going to agree completely on this - you being a stubborn old goat and me being a reasonable and sensible debater (some call me a master debater) - but my main concern is that the Petrie out campaign does not weaken the club's chances of gaining promotion in what is one of the most important seasons this century. By all means keep the pressure up, but understand that it's a point of principle and don't let it detract from the vital issues of the coming season.

blackpoolhibs
22-06-2014, 06:37 PM
We're clearly never going to agree completely on this - you being a stubborn old goat and me being a reasonable and sensible debater (some call me a master debater) - but my main concern is that the Petrie out campaign does not weaken the club's chances of gaining promotion in what is one of the most important seasons this century. By all means keep the pressure up, but understand that it's a point of principle and don't let it detract from the vital issues of the coming season.

:greengrin I agree that hopefully it does not detract us from doing well this season, although what i will say is sometimes you need to take the medicine before the patient gets better.

Under Petrie and STF this club is floundering, change is needed, but it has to be for the better. :agree:

Caversham Green
22-06-2014, 06:54 PM
No it isn't. Petrie owns 10% of the holding company that owns the club. No guarantee he'd sell if STF did.

We only have guesstimates of what price Farmer would sell his share for. Same goes for Petrie. They should name their price publicly and see what happens. Who announces their house is up for sale but doesn't advertise the price or how to find it out?

That's not how it works. HFC Holdings Ltd owns around 98% of the club's share capital, therefore it is for HFC Holdings to decide whether to sell all or part of that holding. HFC alone will gain or lose on that sale, the shareholding ratio of HFC is irrelevant apart from making that one decision whether to sell or not - Petrie can't sell his interest separately.

Regarding the house selling scenario, as with so many analogies that one only holds true up to a point, beyond which it becomes worse than irrelevant. You advertise your house for sale because there is an open market for houses and to some extent you don't care who buys it so long as they produce the readies. In the case of football clubs, the market is very limited and in the case of Hibs, STF is clearly very concerned that it goes to the right people so advertising/naming your price is absolutely the wrong strategy - meeting with people who express an interest or putting discreet feelers out is the way to go.

A similar situation has developed down here (the parallels between Hibs and Reading are surprisingly strong) and, to quote Sir John Madejski from a few years ago: "I bought the club 20 years ago and I've been trying to sell it for 20 years". He's given up and is selling to the next chancer that turns up - I pray Sir Tom doesn't go the same way.

down-the-slope
22-06-2014, 07:29 PM
For what it's worth I want to stick my oar in to the debate.

I personally take Petrie's standpoint at it's face value - ie with the arrival of Dempster the operational decision making is now out of his hands. However, I do think that we have come to a point where, regardless of his blame or the lack thereof for our current predicament, his presence on the board has become a negative in that some fans don't see his stepping back to non-executive chairman as enough and are likely to stay away until he is gone. Petrie should therefore be looking for an exit strategy if, as I believe to be the case, he has the good of the club at heart.

It is not as simple as him just packing his stuff and leaving though - Petrie remains partial owner of Hibs with a 10% stake in the club and is entitled as such to some sort of representation at board level. Also, crucially, he retains the backing of the owner of the other 90% who also sees him as his own representative - therefore as such Petrie has a wider responsibility other than just to himself and it would be remiss of him to simply depart the scene. So, what the Petrie out lobby are effectively asking for is at least a partial change of ownership.

This isn't something which can be sorted with a wave of a magic wand - it requires a consortium or individual with a massive wedge to spend - and surely of course we should be able to draw some lessons from the experiences of our Pink neighbours - ie be careful what you wish for - if Petrie and perhaps Farmer as well were to sell their interest in the club then we need to know that whoever the buyer is represents a trust worthy pair of hands to take the club forward - not something you can really go about doing in a hurry!

I am glad that Kano and others have taken a lead on protesting the current state of affairs at Hibs - there's no denying that our relegation was the catastrophic culmination of years of failure on the football pitch and that something needs to change to address this - and they have done a good job of providing a focus for the expression of the anger and frustration of the support. However, I think there's a danger of splitting the support by obsessing over the immediate removal of Petrie when in reality that is not something that we should either want or expect to happen overnight. Change is needed but it needs to be an evolution rather than a revolution and in the meantime this should not distract us from supporting the club right now when our support is desparately needed.
:agree:90% of what I would have typed on the subject.

Its very simplistic to assume that all who feel that our club would be better served if RP moved on, do so for the same reasons or all agree on the way to achieve it

Hermit Crab
22-06-2014, 07:44 PM
We will hear news if and when there is something we need to be told.

Forza Fred
22-06-2014, 08:19 PM
Fred, you really believe that ? Put the Fosters and class A drugs away.

Put up with the names of these so called saviours of Hibs that you claim to know.

I do not know of any saviours.

I am aware of the publicly announced people, like anybody else who reads newspapers, who are reported as heading the Petrie Out campaign.

They are Messrs Kane, McLean, Riley and Pia.

I know three of them, I have not met Simon Pia.

Simple as that....not sure why one would try and make it sound like a conspiracy, as far as I am aware the Petrie Out campaigners have nailed their colours pretty hard to the mast so to speak.

TornadoHibby
22-06-2014, 08:42 PM
It's not a case of him having to 'give up' his veto. He quite simply doesn't have it any more.

You say that in a way that suggests that you believe that you know that as fact rather than an opiniont!? :confused:

I wonder how you could have gathered that information in that way? :hmmm: :dunno:

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 08:47 PM
You say that in a way that suggests that you believe that you know that as fact rather than an opiniont!? :confused:

I wonder how you could have gathered that information in that way? :hmmm: :dunno:

Because a non-executive chairman doesn't have the authority to over-rule/veto the chief executive's decisions.

MyJo
22-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Because a non-executive chairman doesn't have the authority to over-rule/veto the chief executive's decisions.

http://i.imgur.com/bglDipa.jpg

FranckSuzy
22-06-2014, 09:04 PM
Because a non-executive chairman doesn't have the authority to over-rule/veto the chief executive's decisions.

He/they do. It's how all boards operate, as per Brian Houston/Leeann Dempster. Although they also said that it would be very unlikely to happen and BH couldn't remember an instance of it at Hibs.

Criswell
22-06-2014, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=Caversham Green;4072160]I was using the Kane mutiny thing as a 'clever' play on words - wasted with this audience.

I geddit! Humphrey Bogart wasn't it?

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 09:39 PM
He/they do. It's how all boards operate, as per Brian Houston/Leeann Dempster. Although they also said that it would be very unlikely to happen and BH couldn't remember an instance of it at Hibs.

From the UK Corporate Governance Code:

"There should be a clear division of responsibilities at the head of the company between the running of the board and the executive responsibility for the running of the company’s business. No one individual should have unfettered powers of decision."

Petrie - responsible for running of the board.

Dempster - responsible for running Hibs.

UK Corporate Governance Code (https://www.frc.org.uk/Our-Work/Publications/Corporate-Governance/UK-Corporate-Governance-Code-September-2012.pdf)

down-the-slope
22-06-2014, 09:55 PM
From the UK Corporate Governance Code:

"There should be a clear division of responsibilities at the head of the company between the running of the board and the executive responsibility for the running of the company’s business. No one individual should have unfettered powers of decision."

Petrie - responsible for running of the board.

Dempster - responsible for running Hibs.

UK Corporate Governance Code (https://www.frc.org.uk/Our-Work/Publications/Corporate-Governance/UK-Corporate-Governance-Code-September-2012.pdf)

While you are quoting correct stuff you are drawing wrong conclusion from it. Its referring to not wanting in effect the chairman to also to be CEO (one individual to have all control) Hibs are however not a corporation - they are in effect a private SME where the major shareholders could replace the entire board on a whim.

Suz - it was not a question about Chairman / CEO that BH was answering to.

SunshineOnLeith
22-06-2014, 10:13 PM
While you are quoting correct stuff you are drawing wrong conclusion from it. Its referring to not wanting in effect the chairman to also to be CEO (one individual to have all control) Hibs are however not a corporation - they are in effect a private SME where the major shareholders could replace the entire board on a whim.

Suz - it was not a question about Chairman / CEO that BH was answering to.

It was the closest parallel I could think of and I'm tired because I'm addicted to watching the World Cup but still have a 7am alarm :boo hoo:

For all I'm posting in this thread, my actual opinion is that none of this matters unless someone is realistically going to buy the club from STF.

down-the-slope
22-06-2014, 10:18 PM
It was the closest parallel I could think of and I'm tired because I'm addicted to watching the World Cup but still have a 7am alarm :boo hoo:

For all I'm posting in this thread, my actual opinion is that none of this matters unless someone is realistically going to buy the club from STF.


:agree: that is the crux of it all - his ball so he decides who 'plays'

FranckSuzy
22-06-2014, 10:29 PM
While you are quoting correct stuff you are drawing wrong conclusion from it. Its referring to not wanting in effect the chairman to also to be CEO (one individual to have all control) Hibs are however not a corporation - they are in effect a private SME where the major shareholders could replace the entire board on a whim.

Suz - it was not a question about Chairman / CEO that BH was answering to.

The sun must have gone to my head then as I was sure BH said that at Hibs, as per all boards, the Chairman can veto a decision made by the CEO BUT that it was unlikely to happen. Hence the "LD is a puppet" theories :wink:

Turkish Green
22-06-2014, 10:36 PM
For all I'm posting in this thread, my actual opinion is that none of this matters unless someone is realistically going to buy the club from STF.
This is the crux of the matter. We can argue among ourselves until the proverbial cows come home, but it would make not one bit of difference unless STF is willing to sell his shares.

Thankfully I am on medication for high blood pressure or these past weeks would have blown me through the roof. How long until the 1st friendly game?

banarc7062
23-06-2014, 06:06 PM
Has this topic ran its race and died a death or does it show that STF and RP can quickly shut these things down?

lord bunberry
23-06-2014, 06:08 PM
Has this topic ran its race and died a death or does it show that STF and RP can quickly shut these things down?

I'm not sure, but this thread shows your not paying attention, there's two threads on the first page about this topic

Golden Bear
23-06-2014, 06:11 PM
Has this topic ran its race and died a death or does it show that STF and RP can quickly shut these things down?

I doubt if this is the last we'll hear of it and frequent threads like this will continue to rise to the surface.

WestStandMoaner
23-06-2014, 07:01 PM
For what it's worth I want to stick my oar in to the debate.

I personally take Petrie's standpoint at it's face value - ie with the arrival of Dempster the operational decision making is now out of his hands. However, I do think that we have come to a point where, regardless of his blame or the lack thereof for our current predicament, his presence on the board has become a negative in that some fans don't see his stepping back to non-executive chairman as enough and are likely to stay away until he is gone. Petrie should therefore be looking for an exit strategy if, as I believe to be the case, he has the good of the club at heart.

It is not as simple as him just packing his stuff and leaving though - Petrie remains partial owner of Hibs with a 10% stake in the club and is entitled as such to some sort of representation at board level. Also, crucially, he retains the backing of the owner of the other 90% who also sees him as his own representative - therefore as such Petrie has a wider responsibility other than just to himself and it would be remiss of him to simply depart the scene. So, what the Petrie out lobby are effectively asking for is at least a partial change of ownership.

This isn't something which can be sorted with a wave of a magic wand - it requires a consortium or individual with a massive wedge to spend - and surely of course we should be able to draw some lessons from the experiences of our Pink neighbours - ie be careful what you wish for - if Petrie and perhaps Farmer as well were to sell their interest in the club then we need to know that whoever the buyer is represents a trust worthy pair of hands to take the club forward - not something you can really go about doing in a hurry!

I am glad that Kano and others have taken a lead on protesting the current state of affairs at Hibs - there's no denying that our relegation was the catastrophic culmination of years of failure on the football pitch and that something needs to change to address this - and they have done a good job of providing a focus for the expression of the anger and frustration of the support. However, I think there's a danger of splitting the support by obsessing over the immediate removal of Petrie when in reality that is not something that we should either want or expect to happen overnight. Change is needed but it needs to be an evolution rather than a revolution and in the meantime this should not distract us from supporting the club right now when our support is desparately needed.

Petrie should have resigned but instead he would rather split the support, having 10% of the club does not mean he cannot go quickly, the man is a toxic brand and should be chased out of ER and take Farmer with him. Hibs will be a better club without them

Waxy
23-06-2014, 07:06 PM
It annoys me people saying STF should go too.Without him where would we be? Meadowbank is my guess.

Phil D. Rolls
23-06-2014, 07:07 PM
It annoys me people saying STF should go too.Without him where would we be? Meadowbank is my guess.

It can still be arranged.

WestStandMoaner
23-06-2014, 07:14 PM
It annoys me people saying STF should go too.Without him where would we be? Meadowbank is my guess.

Well we are playing Livi first game, so looks like STF has taken us to that level anyway

Waxy
23-06-2014, 07:14 PM
It can still be arranged.That's part of why it annoys me.Though it's mostly people with few posts wanting him out.

Waxy
23-06-2014, 07:16 PM
Well we are playing Livi first game, so looks like STF has taken us to that level anywaySTF was not a footie man but his cash saved us. He didn't take us down, the people he trusted the club with did.

WestStandMoaner
23-06-2014, 07:27 PM
STF was not a footie man but his cash saved us. He didn't take us down, the people he trusted the club with did.


That's the problem mate we have no footie men at the club who are hurting like the fans, STF will always be remembered for saving us, but his legacy is being soured by his top man. STF has the power and the money to make Hibs one of the top clubs but instead he allowed his right hand man to take us down.

You would think we are the club coming out of administration with the mess we are in. Time for change STF out PETRIE out

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:31 PM
That's the problem mate we have no footie men at the club who are hurting like the fans, STF will always be remembered for saving us, but his legacy is being soured by his top man. STF has the power and the money to make Hibs one of the top clubs but instead he allowed his right hand man to take us down.

You would think we are the club coming out of administration with the mess we are in. Time for change STF out PETRIE out

Replaced by whom ?

WestStandMoaner
23-06-2014, 07:39 PM
Replaced by whom ?

Listen this seems to be the response on here, if Farmer comes out and informs the media Hibs are for sale people come forward, there will be life after STF and Petrie

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:47 PM
Listen this seems to be the response on here, if Farmer comes out and informs the media Hibs are for sale people come forward, there will be life after STF and Petrie

And you believe in the tooth fairy as well. I must have missed all the potential buyers lining up.

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 07:49 PM
Is STF the only person in the world who can own Hibs?

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:50 PM
And you believe in the tooth fairy as well. I must have missed all the potential buyers lining up.

When STF pops his clogs, do Hibs die too? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you don't half talk some ***** on this particular subject

CropleyWasGod
23-06-2014, 07:51 PM
Listen this seems to be the response on here, if Farmer comes out and informs the media Hibs are for sale people come forward, there will be life after STF and Petrie

He said some years ago that he would listen to people who were interested in buying the club. I've no reason to think he has changed his mind.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:53 PM
Is STF the only person in the world who can own Hibs?

No, but he is the safe option at present - until we see the options from the four in hand.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:55 PM
When STF pops his clogs, do Hibs die too? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you don't half talk some ***** on this particular subject

SRF has plans for Hibs, but please tell me who is going to buy the club - do you know - yes or no ?

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 07:58 PM
No, but he is the safe option at present - until we see the options from the four in hand.

The safe option, thank god for that. Imagine what could happen if we had an idiot in charge, christ we could be playing in the championship if that were to happen. :rolleyes:

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 07:59 PM
SRF has plans for Hibs, but please tell me who is going to buy the club - do you know - yes or no ?

I have no idea, but does that mean nobody can, yes or No?

Onion
23-06-2014, 08:00 PM
Is STF the only person in the world who can own Hibs?

It would appear so.

If Petrie thinks this will all blow over he's misjudged the situation (consistent with his previous managerial misjudgements). He will get dogs abuse every time he steps inside ER - and rightly so. If he had any sense or professional integrity he would be done the right and proper thing. Now he just looks like an ass. IMO all good things that happen at Hibs will be in spite of Petrie and all bad things will be because of him. His positive "infrastructure" legacy is being neutralised every day with his presence at the club.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:02 PM
The safe option, thank god for that. Imagine what could happen if we had an idiot in charge, christ we could be playing in the championship if that were to happen. :rolleyes:

BH - like CG we are never going to agree :greengrin

I just worry that people think Hibs are a worth while investment - they are not, Scottish football has no brand, no corporate deals, and a support that is declining, mostly due to kids / families having other options.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:06 PM
I have no idea, but does that mean nobody can, yes or No?

As you say you have no idea.

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 08:08 PM
BH - like CG we are never going to agree :greengrin

I just worry that people think Hibs are a worth while investment - they are not, Scottish football has no brand, no corporate deals, and a support that is declining, mostly due to kids / families having other options.

Yet clubs who are owned by people with little money compared to STF are doing much better than us. Under STF and Petrie's leadership we have been relegated, this is a complete fail in anybody's world.

The safe pair of hands you think is such a good thing is not working, and has not worked for the last 7 years. Why cant we have new owners if they both left the club?

If STF and Petrie left the club tomorrow, do you honestly think nobody would take over at the club?

And why do you think any new owner would look at it as an investment, couldnt they think of it as running a football club better than the current ones are doing?

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Yet clubs who are owned by people with little money compared to STF are doing much better than us. Under STF and Petrie's leadership we have been relegated, this is a complete fail in anybody's world.

The safe pair of hands you think is such a good thing is not working, and has not worked for the last 7 years. Why cant we have new owners if they both left the club?

If STF and Petrie left the club tomorrow, do you honestly think nobody would take over at the club?

And why do you think any new owner would look at it as an investment, couldnt they think of it as running a football club better than the current ones are doing?

List me one potential new owner (excludng four in hand pub)

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:14 PM
As you say you have no idea.

Many people I assume could buy Hibs, I don't personally know who is going to at this point, and wouldn't expect to. These things are generally private matters. So onto the question you so conveniently dodged.

Because I don't know who is going to buy Hibs, does that mean no one can, yes or no?

You are either extremely thick or are just on the wind up which one is it?

hibbymick
23-06-2014, 08:16 PM
SRF has plans for Hibs, but please tell me who is going to buy the club - do you know - yes or no ?

Ah someone with a bit inside info,,,,,,,please share these plans you talk about. :aok:

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 08:18 PM
List me one potential new owner (excludng four in hand pub)

How the hell would i know who might want to buy us, although if we look a few miles over the city, we have new owners of them. And thats a club thats up to their neck in sheite, yet someone has taken them over?

If STF said he was leaving tomorrow, we'd have folk wanting to take over from him. Just because i dont know who is very naive to think there wouldnt.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:23 PM
Many people I assume could buy Hibs, I don't personally know who is going to at this point, and wouldn't expect to. These things are generally private matters. So onto the question you so conveniently dodged.

Because I don't know who is going to buy Hibs, does that mean no one can, yes or no?

You are either extremely thick or are just on the wind up which one is it?
My view is that STF priority is to secure the long term future of Hibernian.

I believe that the club will move towards a community model under LD.

We do however need a secure source of revenue, and that at the momment is STF.

Hope that helps.

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Nope, not one little bit

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Nope, not one little bit

Thats fine - we are all able to give our views, what would you do to change the strategy that we currently have - ie live within our budget, with the safeguard of STF ?

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Ah someone with a bit inside info,,,,,,,please share these plans you talk about. :aok:

You dont believe STF has succession plans in place ?

HUTCHYHIBBY
23-06-2014, 08:41 PM
List me one potential new owner (excludng four in hand pub)

Any chance of giving the 4IH stuff a rest, its tedious in the extreme.

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:45 PM
Thats fine - we are all able to give our views, what would you do to change the strategy that we currently have - ie live within our budget, with the safeguard of STF ?

Too much to go I to here via a phone. But any strategy I might have would not include STF or RP.

You still have not really answered my questions, one which was a simple Yes or No. So for now I think I'll leave it there.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:52 PM
Any chance of giving the 4IH stuff a rest, its tedious in the extreme.

HH - as a shareholder, and someone who spends a few quid coming up to games with my son, I'm keen to know what stage 2 and 3 are, and who is involved.

Skol
23-06-2014, 08:52 PM
It annoys me people saying STF should go too.Without him where would we be? Meadowbank is my guess.

My guess ,without STF, we would just have emerged from a messy administration and be paying £20 per month plus our season tickets in an effort to get fan ownership as part of one Edinburgh team

Jonnyboy
23-06-2014, 08:54 PM
List me one potential new owner (excludng four in hand pub)

Ah the stock answer when anyone has the nerve to question STF's ownership.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:54 PM
Too much to go I to here via a phone. But any strategy I might have would not include STF or RP.

You still have not really answered my questions, one which was a simple Yes or No. So for now I think I'll leave it there.

No STF ? who's picking up the security on the £6m debt on the stands ?

Hibercelona
23-06-2014, 08:55 PM
SRF has plans for Hibs

What plan is that? Going backwards?

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 08:57 PM
No STF ? who's picking up the security on the £6m debt on the stands ?

Maybe i'm being stupid here, but the new owner would discuss that with the bank i'd imagine?

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Ah the stock answer when anyone has the nerve to question STF's ownership.

JC - bit dissapointed with that response given your history with the club, tell me who is waiting to take over, as I've said I believe the long term plan is to move to a community based club.

Peevemor
23-06-2014, 08:58 PM
What plan is that? Going backwards?

Yeah, of course!

BoltonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:02 PM
No STF ? who's picking up the security on the £6m debt on the stands ?

That depends on a number of things, I'm sure you can work it out.

Jonnyboy
23-06-2014, 09:03 PM
JC - bit dissapointed with that response given your history with the club, tell me who is waiting to take over, as I've said I believe the long term plan is to move to a community based club.

My apologies but it is indeed the stock answer. Like all Hibs fans I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Sir Tom for saving us from extinction. I do, however, feel that he has allowed us to stagnate by keeping his conduit in post for too long. Changing things at the top is within his remit and I'm delighted we now have LD in place but I'm struggling to see why RP is still there. Petrie has become a toxic brand and because he's Sir Tom's man, that toxicity is now spreading to STF.

I agree we could be moving to become a community based club but it's a pity our owner hasn't seen fit to make that announcement himself. RP is seen as aloof and STF, by many, as a step higher than that

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:03 PM
Maybe i'm being stupid here, but the new owner would discuss that with the bank i'd imagine?

Who in their right mind is going to pick this up - the club has been avaialble since STF gained control - any bids in 20 years ?

HUTCHYHIBBY
23-06-2014, 09:03 PM
HH - as a shareholder, and someone who spends a few quid coming up to games with my son, I'm keen to know what stage 2 and 3 are, and who is involved.

I'm sure you are perfectly well aware that T4IH pub has no intention of taking over Hibs. Your constant jibes in that direction do you know favours.

SunshineOnLeith
23-06-2014, 09:05 PM
Ah the stock answer when anyone has the nerve to question STF's ownership.

It's valid, though. STF can't just up sticks and leave Hibs, he owns the club. What are people suggesting, that he puts his share certificates in the centre circle at half time and shouts "SCRAMBLE!"?

Of course someone/some people other than STF could own Hibs. Make him an acceptable proposal to acquire his shareholding.

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 09:08 PM
Who in their right mind is going to pick this up - the club has been avaialble since STF gained control - any bids in 20 years ?

You do know any new owners wont actually have to pay it out there own pockets? The loans will continue to be paid as they have done without any default by the money we generate.

And by running the club a damn site better than the current incumbents, they might just pay it off early?

I see you have failed to answer why any new owner has to see the club as an investment?

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:08 PM
My apologies but it is indeed the stock answer. Like all Hibs fans I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Sir Tom for saving us from extinction. I do, however, feel that he has allowed us to stagnate by keeping his conduit in post for too long. Changing things at the top is within his remit and I'm delighted we now have LD in place but I'm struggling to see why RP is still there. Petrie has become a toxic brand and because he's Sir Tom's man, that toxicity is now spreading to STF.

I agree we could be moving to become a community based club but it's a pity our owner hasn't seen fit to make that announcement himself. RP is seen as aloof and STF, by many, as a step higher than that

JC - no worries - we go back to HOH meetings, and I know you have the club in your blood - I agree RP is not a communicator -hence why LD has been brought in. I just get frustrated when people think that Hibs will survive no matter what, we have never been in a more difficult position football wise, hence the need for financial stability

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:10 PM
You do know any new owners wont actually have to pay it out there own pockets? The loans will continue to be paid as they have done without any default by the money we generate.

And by running the club a damn site better than the current incumbents, they might just pay it off early?

I see you have failed to answer why any new owner has to see the club as an investment?

So somebody's coming in with a view to not making money ?

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 09:14 PM
[/B]

So somebody's coming in with a view to not making money ?

The club should be aiming to spend every penny it earns after bills on the product on the park, it will never make money for any investor.

SunshineOnLeith
23-06-2014, 09:15 PM
The club should be aiming to spend every penny it earns after bills on the product on the park, it will never make money for any investor.

Finally, you and Petrie agree on something! :wink:

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 09:19 PM
Finally, you and Petrie agree on something! :wink:

:agree: Even Darlington has said there is nobody out there wanting to take over, so its only logical to assume thats because there is no money to be made?

It does not mean that someone else cant run the place a damn site better than the current clowns who remember have actually put us in this mess.

Crazyhorse
23-06-2014, 09:23 PM
That's part of why it annoys me.Though it's mostly people with few posts wanting him out.

How many posts do you need to have made to:
1. be a proper fan?
2. be entitled to an opinion on important issues about our club?

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:28 PM
:agree: Even Darlington has said there is nobody out there wanting to take over, so its only logical to assume thats because there is no money to be made?

It does not mean that someone else cant run the place a damn site better than the current clowns who remember have actually put us in this mess.

Im coming down to Blackpool this summer, so you can buy me a few beers, might even invite CG :thumbsup:

blackpoolhibs
23-06-2014, 09:31 PM
Im coming down to Blackpool this summer, so you can buy me a few beers, might even invite CG :thumbsup:

I'm getting the snipers ready at the end of the M55.

DarlingtonHibee
23-06-2014, 09:32 PM
I'm getting the snipers ready at the end of the M55.

LOL :thumbsup:

Suburban Hibby
23-06-2014, 09:34 PM
Has this topic ran its race and died a death or does it show that STF and RP can quickly shut these things down?

I bumped into Kano at lunchtime today, parked in Heriot Row. I don't know him but asked him ' when are you getting Petrie out?'

Not expecting any answer he said they had met with Farmers team this morning and have been given the green light to talk through proposed details with his accounting team. He was very frustrated at having his hands tied to speak publicly in detail as he knows the fans want/ need to hear.

No detail to report but things are definitely moving along in the right direction.

Jonnyboy
23-06-2014, 09:59 PM
JC - no worries - we go back to HOH meetings, and I know you have the club in your blood - I agree RP is not a communicator -hence why LD has been brought in. I just get frustrated when people think that Hibs will survive no matter what, we have never been in a more difficult position football wise, hence the need for financial stability

You've got me there :greengrin

Forza Fred
24-06-2014, 02:59 AM
[/B]

So somebody's coming in with a view to not making money ?

Nobody in their right mind would invest in a football club, particularly a Scottish championship club with a view to make money.

It would only ever be for emotional or community reasons.

Dodgy goings on at Ibrox notwithstanding, but even Anne Budge is investing with conditions, based on her emotional attachment to her club.

Somehow this thread, which I created to ask a question about the Petri Out campaign has evolved into an 'Ownership' debate.

That was not my intention, and I would question, whether the Petrie Out leaders actually represent those who showed the support for the Petrie Out move, in any ownership discussions, as I am unaware of any mandate for that.

That is not to say I may not support any initiatives they may suggest, but as yet nothing has been shared with the support in regard to this.

smurf
24-06-2014, 07:24 AM
Williamson was dismantling a highly-paid team and replacing them with kids. He was unpopular but it was a tough job and we hadn't really bought into it. Petrie was probably the driving force behind removing the high earners and playing the kids.

Mowbray took the kids after they'd had a bit of experience, got them playing decent stuff and the crowds flocked. We bought into it.

Petrie/Hibs flogged the kids and got decent cash. We accepted it (largely), Petrie's stock was still relatively high off the back of helping Mowbray create the decent team and we were generally behind this approach. At least we got the money for these players. Fans still reasonably happy with Petrie.

Money invested in infrastructure. Some may agree, some may disagree with the merits of this. More money frittered on panic buys, punting failed managers, constant restructuring of the squad. Year-on-year decline, fans get more fed up. Successive cup finals seriously flatter season tickets sales or we'd have been at panic stage much earlier. Petrie losing support as every year goes by.

Culmination in relegation. Utterly shambolic. Pitifully badly balanced squad, another failed managerial appointment. Fans finally lose patience with Petrie and campaign to oust him starts in earnest.

What is my point? I agree with you that when Hibs play well, the crowds flock to ER and when they play badly they don't. I totally disagree that this has nothing to do with Petrie. More than anyone I would argue, he has influenced our fortunes over the past 10 years. He got very lucky with Mowbray and has failed with every managerial appointment - and failed to adequately back every one, since. Last season's "omnishambles" had his grubby pawprints all over it. The surplus of defensive midfielders, nae wide players, missing out on targets such as Lyle Taylor and Griffiths last summer, a failure to improve the squad in January - all of this reeks of Petrie. No manager worth their salt would have built the squad the way we did.

Petrie has all along played a blinder convincing us that it's been a succession of poor managers who have been to blame. I'm not fooled.

Fantastic post that articulates all the issues, frustrations and faults of the conduit. His position is untenable. He is entirely responsible for the position we find ourselves in through a complete lack of vision, strategy and leadership.

Brightside
24-06-2014, 07:26 AM
The club should be aiming to spend every penny it earns after bills on the product on the park, it will never make money for any investor.

So nobody will ever buy it....

If it becomes the "fans club" what happens with the lost income? If we as fans lump into the club do we get free entry? Or do we pay Season tickets on top of buying into the club? I dont get how fan ownership works.

blackpoolhibs
24-06-2014, 08:00 AM
So nobody will ever buy it....

If it becomes the "fans club" what happens with the lost income? If we as fans lump into the club do we get free entry? Or do we pay Season tickets on top of buying into the club? I dont get how fan ownership works.

Google is your friend then, do a little research.

Keith_M
24-06-2014, 08:45 AM
So nobody will ever buy it....


Not necessarily. It could be someone, or a group, that purely has an emotional attachment to the club.



If it becomes the "fans club" what happens with the lost income?

I think the idea would be to run the club to make neither a profit nor a loss.


If we as fans lump into the club do we get free entry? Or do we pay Season tickets on top of buying into the club?

If you put money in to owning the club, you get shares in the club. You would still have to pay to watch games.

However, clubs like Barcelona have discounts for their club members, but they have to pay roughly €140 annually for the privilege. It all depends on the particular ownership/membership model.

Brightside
24-06-2014, 08:53 AM
right have googled.... will never work for a top ranking. Fine of we want to stay in the position we are now, but clubs need real investement to improve. Fan Ownership just keeps them alive.

Keith_M
24-06-2014, 08:55 AM
right have googled.... will never work for a top ranking. Fine of we want to stay in the position we are now, but clubs need real investement to improve. Fan Ownership just keeps them alive.


You mean like Barcelona?

Brightside
24-06-2014, 09:06 AM
totally different - which im sure you know. Unless you are suggesting the fans fund £40m player purchases?

Forza Fred
24-06-2014, 09:13 AM
totally different - which im sure you know. Unless you are suggesting the fans fund £40m player purchases?

So can you tell me who DOES fund such player purchases for Barcelona?

Brightside
24-06-2014, 09:43 AM
So can you tell me who DOES fund such player purchases for Barcelona?

The bank. And just add it to the 655m debt!

Forza Fred
24-06-2014, 09:58 AM
The bank. And just add it to the 655m debt!

Barca need Rod Petrie then!

Wonder if they would do swap with us...we get Messi, they get El Tacho..:greengrin

jacomo
24-06-2014, 10:37 AM
Fantastic post that articulates all the issues, frustrations and faults of the conduit. His position is untenable. He is entirely responsible for the position we find ourselves in through a complete lack of vision, strategy and leadership.

:agree:

Golden Bear
24-06-2014, 10:49 AM
:agree:

And maybe the Players themselves should shoulder some responsibility for their pathetic showings and attitude? For all his failings RP cannot be held accountable for shambolic defending, misplaced passes and astonishing misses in front of goal.

jacomo
24-06-2014, 10:55 AM
And maybe the Players themselves should shoulder some responsibility for their pathetic showings and attitude? For all his failings RP cannot be held accountable for shambolic defending, misplaced passes and astonishing misses in front of goal.

Sure. But do we start with the players who didn't turn up for the Scottish Cup Finals, the players who participated in the revolt, the ones who got turned over way too often by Hearts, the ones who played against Malmo, or the ones who finally got us relegated?

I don't expect much from footballers - certainly not loyalty or any wider sense of responsibility. If they offer more then great, but I don't expect it.

Hibs is a sporting institution which needs to get the maximum performance and potential out of its employees, same as any club. We compete in the same marketplace to sign the best players we can and have better resources than most to support them. Why, then, have we been doing this so badly for so long?

Golden Bear
24-06-2014, 11:07 AM
Sure. But do we start with the players who didn't turn up for the Scottish Cup Finals, the players who participated in the revolt, the ones who got turned over way too often by Hearts, the ones who played against Malmo, or the ones who finally got us relegated?

I don't expect much from footballers - certainly not loyalty or any wider sense of responsibility. If they offer more then great, but I don't expect it.

Hibs is a sporting institution which needs to get the maximum performance and potential out of its employees, same as any club. We compete in the same marketplace to sign the best players we can and have better resources than most to support them. Why, then, have we been doing this so badly for so long?

A conundrum I can't answer. We've been under performing for years despite the frequent turnover in both Managers and playing staff.
On paper, each incoming Manager seemed to fit the bill and met with the approval of the majority of fans and we signed some good players who subsequently proved to be a disaster as soon they pulled a Hibs jersey on.

The malaise seemed to start with RP's reported clandestine meeting with JC's rebel players and we've been on the slide ever since.

But we've said it all before.

blackpoolhibs
24-06-2014, 11:29 AM
totally different - which im sure you know. Unless you are suggesting the fans fund £40m player purchases?

Why would we need that kind of money in Scotland?

Keith_M
24-06-2014, 11:40 AM
totally different - which im sure you know. Unless you are suggesting the fans fund £40m player purchases?


It was merely an answer to your question about whether any successful clubs are supporter owned. I don't believe I mentioned anything about player transfers.

Tell me what you define as a 'successful' club, then maybe I could answer your question more accurately.

Brightside
24-06-2014, 11:45 AM
Have any of the English ones gone on to be succesfull? Or are they all just sitting middle of divison 3?

blackpoolhibs
24-06-2014, 11:55 AM
Have any of the English ones gone on to be succesfull? Or are they all just sitting middle of divison 3?

I don't know, do you?

Brightside
24-06-2014, 12:00 PM
Off the top of my head... :wink:
1874 Northwich F.C.
AFC Croydon Athletic
AFC Liverpool
AFC Rushden & Diamonds
AFC Telford United
AFC Wimbledon
Aylesbury United F.C.
Bromsgrove Sporting F.C.
Cambridge City F.C.
Canterbury City F.C.
Chelmsford City F.C.
Chesham United F.C.
Chester F.C. -
Darlington 1883
Dorchester Town F.C.
Enfield Town F.C.
Exeter City F.C.
Lewes F.C. -
Maine Road F.C.
Newport (IOW) F.C.
Portsmouth F.C. -
Saffron Walden Town F.C.
Scarborough Athletic F.C.
Scarborough Town F.C.
Windsor F.C.
Wycombe Wanderers F.C.

blackpoolhibs
24-06-2014, 12:23 PM
Off the top of my head... :wink:
1874 Northwich F.C.
AFC Croydon Athletic
AFC Liverpool
AFC Rushden & Diamonds
AFC Telford United
AFC Wimbledon
Aylesbury United F.C.
Bromsgrove Sporting F.C.
Cambridge City F.C.
Canterbury City F.C.
Chelmsford City F.C.
Chesham United F.C.
Chester F.C. -
Darlington 1883
Dorchester Town F.C.
Enfield Town F.C.
Exeter City F.C.
Lewes F.C. -
Maine Road F.C.
Newport (IOW) F.C.
Portsmouth F.C. -
Saffron Walden Town F.C.
Scarborough Athletic F.C.
Scarborough Town F.C.
Windsor F.C.
Wycombe Wanderers F.C.

Sorry basically small clubs in the grand scheme of things, with no real comparison to Hibs with our standing in the Scottish game.

Brightside
24-06-2014, 12:27 PM
Sorry basically small clubs in the grand scheme of things, with no real comparison to Hibs with our standing in the Scottish game.

Yes - so my point is is fan ownership not really just something for "wee" teams?

Caversham Green
24-06-2014, 12:41 PM
Swansea City are 20% fan owned - I think it's a supporters' trust that owns the shares but I might look a bit deeper to see if I can work out how they work.

Brightside
24-06-2014, 01:04 PM
Was just reading about Swansea....i can see how a 20% standing could work.

Forza Fred
24-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Yes - so my point is is fan ownership not really just something for "wee" teams?

Cannae be just for wee teams.

I mean Hertz are moving to that kind of structure and just ask them if they consider themselves a wee team.:wink:

RIP Bestie
26-06-2014, 03:14 AM
One more thread and this was on the second page.
You guys are slacking. :wink: