John Collins.

[spike220]

Get Petrie out and put Collins in, if anyone has unfinished business it is JC.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42699000/jpg/_42699097_football_416.jpg

[Scottie]

Get Petrie out and put Collins in, if anyone has unfinished business it is JC.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42699000/jpg/_42699097_football_416.jpg
Brilliant photo. Hibs class :aok:

[Spike Mandela]

And his assistant...................
12764

[Mark79]

I liked his philosophy, however the players revolt killed any chance of him staying.

He then managed in belgium and did hee haw.

[IainA]

Brilliant photo. Hibs class :aok:

How good would that scenario be? In my opinion that move would really regenerate Easter Road!:flag:

[Lewis77]

Get Petrie out and put Collins in, if anyone has unfinished business it is JC.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42699000/jpg/_42699097_football_416.jpg

Ahhhhh! Ohhhhhh! One of the happiest days of my life and you delivered it to me John, Oh who am I kiddin' I'd still have you back!

Mmmm, just read that back and it comes over a touch, errrrrr ? Oh f*** it I don't care, come back John.

[Paisley Hibby]

How good would that scenario be? In my opinion that move would really regenerate Easter Road!:flag:

Respect to your opinion but for me it's a very big NO. I can't think of many candidates less likely to regenerate Easter Road :rolleyes:

[col02]

If Hibs are looking to bring thru young players they could do a lot worse than bringing JC back. Probably the last time I genuinely enjoyed watching Hibs was when Collins was in charge. With him being involved in the Scotland youth team could well know a few quality players to bring along.

[kaimendhibs]

Thanks but no thanks


Sent from my iphone

[Springbank]

Always welcome at ER is our JC

One of our own

Champions League Class

[HibbySpurs]

Get Petrie out and put Collins in, if anyone has unfinished business it is JC.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42699000/jpg/_42699097_football_416.jpg

:top marksI'd have JC back in a moment. Some will say it was TM's team but we totally humiliated Killie that day. Ran ****ing rings round them. JC has the right philosophy and sad as it sounds now you can draw a line straight back to the player revolt and his eventual demise to the sorry state we are in now. The day the Chairman (or was he CEO) met players behind the managers back is now the day that I reckon we should have seen this coming. No wonder JC rapped it soon after even if it was blabbing on about money or whatever. RP showed his true colours then and we've seen it time and again ever since..... It's directly related to that why I want Petrie out.... What manager could trust a chairman knowing he had done that to a previous incumbent??? Get Petrie out & let Collins finish what he began... His way this time:aok:

[Winston Ingram]

His track record since is justification alone:rolleyes:

[Peevemor]

Not for me I'm afraid.

[johnbc70]

John Collins as DoF with remit to reshape the club from top to bottom and Ian Murray as First Team Coach - my dream team. This would make me buy my first season ticket since 2012.

[Coco Bryce]

Just seen JC down the shore. Think he was out with the new tic boss.

[HibbySpurs]

His track record since is justification alone:rolleyes:

The last incumbent of the managers office at Easter Road had been sacked 4 times previously before joining us but he was welcomed. I just don't get that because it hasn't worked out for Collins since he's automatically a duff manager?

[Unseen work]

we need to move on from collins as a manager imo. He finished 6th with us and was 5th when he left so he isnt as amazing as what everyone thinks aswell that all his signings were terrible.

I think there could be a role in the club for jc somewhere working with the youth teams, going around the different ages speaking to them passing on his knowledge, sharing his football, nutrition and gym habbits that made him succesful. He would definetley improve the youths with his experience and guidance of a role model

[Kaff]

The last incumbent of the managers office at Easter Road had been sacked 4 times previously before joining us but he was welcomed. I just don't get that because it hasn't worked out for Collins since he's automatically a duff manager?

Absolutely bring him home, he would thrive within a set up where there were set goals and parameters. He has never continued in a job where the waters have been muddied. Hibs - player revolt and not backed to his satisfaction (any Petrie Out campaigners who say Petrie told the players to gtf are wanting their cake and eat it) Charleroi - he was asked to keep them up, which he easily achieved, but when they wanted him to stay on a new contract he turned them down citing a lack of funds for the club to progress. He subsequently received another offer to manage in Belgium if my memory is right. Livingston - his choice as manager was sacked, isn't rocket science that an honourable man would do that, again what are the main reasons the Petrie haters are giving for his removal? Yes, you chose the duff managers so you should go too.
Get Collins in with a good scouting system and we'll be sorted , many want Stuart McCall in but he had to be persuaded from resigning at Bradford as he felt he was doing such a bad job but he was a club hero and their fans urged him to continue. No chance of that at Hibs it seems

[Hibbyradge]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

[HibbyAndy]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.


All in your opinion ofcourse.

[weststandhibby]

:top marksI'd have JC back in a moment. Some will say it was TM's team but we totally humiliated Killie that day. Ran ****ing rings round them. JC has the right philosophy and sad as it sounds now you can draw a line straight back to the player revolt and his eventual demise to the sorry state we are in now. The day the Chairman (or was he CEO) met players behind the managers back is now the day that I reckon we should have seen this coming. No wonder JC rapped it soon after even if it was blabbing on about money or whatever. RP showed his true colours then and we've seen it time and again ever since..... It's directly related to that why I want Petrie out.... What manager could trust a chairman knowing he had done that to a previous incumbent??? Get Petrie out & let Collins finish what he began... His way this time:aok:
Spot on. JC has unfinished business at ER . Get Petrie tae xxxxx and let one of our own back

[Jones28]

He'll be at Celtic in some capacity IMO.

JC he may have unfinished business, but he also has a lack of man-management skills, a poor eye for a player and came to Hibs with a wonderful team already in place.

He got lucky. He did very well with the luck that came his way, but he got lucky.

He did however give me one of the greatest days I have ever had as a Hibbie, and he was cool as ****. So for that I will be eternally greatful.

[R'Albin]

The idea of him signing an entire first team makes me shudder. No thanks.

[erskine-hibby]

:top marksI'd have JC back in a moment. Some will say it was TM's team but we totally humiliated Killie that day. Ran ****ing rings round them. JC has the right philosophy and sad as it sounds now you can draw a line straight back to the player revolt and his eventual demise to the sorry state we are in now. The day the Chairman (or was he CEO) met players behind the managers back is now the day that I reckon we should have seen this coming. No wonder JC rapped it soon after even if it was blabbing on about money or whatever. RP showed his true colours then and we've seen it time and again ever since..... It's directly related to that why I want Petrie out.... What manager could trust a chairman knowing he had done that to a previous incumbent??? Get Petrie out & let Collins finish what he began... His way this time:aok:

If only!

[nribs]

I'm glad he won't be getting the gig. Think he knows how the game should be played but his man management skills are poor plus he really doesn't have an eye for a player.

[Iain G]

I'm glad he won't be getting the gig. Think he knows how the game should be played but his man management skills are poor plus he really doesn't have an eye for a player.

In the right management team, with good coaches and a good scouting network and with the development of young players coming through from the Academy, it could just work.

And that cup final, oh how far we have fallen since then. :agree:

[Deansy]

:top marksI'd have JC back in a moment. Some will say it was TM's team but we totally humiliated Killie that day. Ran ****ing rings round them. JC has the right philosophy and sad as it sounds now you can draw a line straight back to the player revolt and his eventual demise to the sorry state we are in now. The day the Chairman (or was he CEO) met players behind the managers back is now the day that I reckon we should have seen this coming. No wonder JC rapped it soon after even if it was blabbing on about money or whatever. RP showed his true colours then and we've seen it time and again ever since..... It's directly related to that why I want Petrie out.... What manager could trust a chairman knowing he had done that to a previous incumbent??? Get Petrie out & let Collins finish what he began... His way this time:aok:

Cheers for that - saved me from having to type the same thoughts !!

[bingo70]

Back page of the sun today saying Collins in the frame.

Lot of people go on about his man management skills being poor but imo he made a good few individuals better players, that to me is a good man manager, even if he wasn't universally popular.

I also think he'd have learned lessons from the last time, he strikes me as that kind of a guy.

I'd be delighted if he came back, just what we need to get the most out of a young squad imo

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:top marksI'd have JC back in a moment. Some will say it was TM's team but we totally humiliated Killie that day. Ran ****ing rings round them. JC has the right philosophy and sad as it sounds now you can draw a line straight back to the player revolt and his eventual demise to the sorry state we are in now. The day the Chairman (or was he CEO) met players behind the managers back is now the day that I reckon we should have seen this coming. No wonder JC rapped it soon after even if it was blabbing on about money or whatever. RP showed his true colours then and we've seen it time and again ever since..... It's directly related to that why I want Petrie out.... What manager could trust a chairman knowing he had done that to a previous incumbent??? Get Petrie out & let Collins finish what he began... His way this time:aok:

More the fool Petrie for not dispelling the myth around this more clearly. Dispelling harmful myths such as these was one of the point I raised with Scott Lindsay. For me they have been as much a millstone around the club are other things. Communication is imperative going forward this vacuum that non-communication (annually after reflections were told the club acknowledges it needs to be better but now it simply must do it).

[Brooster]

No thanks. His signings were horrendous and none of the staff had any time for him.

[SanFranHibs]

we need to move on from collins as a manager imo. He finished 6th with us and was 5th when he left so he isnt as amazing as what everyone thinks aswell that all his signings were terrible.

I think there could be a role in the club for jc somewhere working with the youth teams, going around the different ages speaking to them passing on his knowledge, sharing his football, nutrition and gym habbits that made him succesful. He would definetley improve the youths with his experience and guidance of a role model

And if he has unfinished business here it is because he quit !

JC is welcome back to ER for all the memories he gave us but in my opinion he should not return as manager or DoF. Does not react in a positive way when there are problems. I believe he quit his only other DoF role. (Sure I will be corrected if this is wrong).

I suppose I really just want a 'clean' break and if we are moving on let's not look back to a time when problems were surfacing between manager and players and between manager and board. Also, if Petrie were still here and we did not give the manager much money to rebuild what would be the point even for JC?



I think the youth

[RIP]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

[Ship Hibs]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

Yip and remember him making one of the most tactically inept decisions I've ever seen in playing Ross Chisholm at centre defence against Aberdeen, the guy was 5 foot nothing predictably someone out jumped him and scored

[AlbertK86]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

Correct .... None

As for him being quoted in the papers.... Typical lazy journos .... No way will he come back unless Petrie is gone

As for walking out on jobs... Due to his success as a a player, he has saved and invested his money sensibly. He is a man of principle who can walk if he is not being backed when he wants to apply his principles to the role

Loads on here want football played the Hibs way........... Exactly how John goes about his business

Loads on here bemoan the players for being unfit lazy barstewards .... Exactly what John Collins strives to eradicate in his teams

Would definitely have him as DOF if KING ROD did the honourable thing and stood down

[Aldo]

Yip and remember him making one of the most tactically inept decisions I've ever seen in playing Ross Chisholm at centre defence against Aberdeen, the guy was 5 foot nothing predictably someone out jumped him and scored

It was actually Kevin McCann.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

100% and wasn't that part of the problem for many of us? And by first picks do you mean first choice signing targets?

Don't know what to believe and that is part of the problem. And I'm glad Leeann iirc has mentioned greater transparency.

[AlbertK86]

It was actually Kevin McCann.

Who wasn't five ft nothing !!

Shock horror .... Manager struggling for centre backs plays a right back who was starring for Scotland. u 21s at the time in Central defence to help out.... No many others have done that right enough

[zlatan]

Who wasn't five ft nothing !!

Shock horror .... Manager struggling for centre backs plays a right back who was starring for Scotland. u 21s at the time in Central defence to help out.... No many others have done that right enough

Sorry there is no justifying that decision that day. No one could believe it at the time and it still galls me now as much as his decision to start Damon Gray over Steven Fletcher in the cup semi replay against Dunfermline.

Quick look at Soccerbase shows Jonny Leith was on the bench that day against Aberdeen so there certainly was options. Also shows Kevin McCann is 5ft 8 inches, and played alongside the similarly small in frame CB in Chris Hogg.

N/A (G) Y Makaba-Makalamby
N/A (D) K McCann
N/A (D) D Murphy
N/A (D) T Gathuessi
N/A (D) C Hogg
N/A (M) G Beuzelin (76)
N/A (M) M Zemmama (55)
N/A (M) B Kerr
N/A (M) L Stevenson
N/A (F) S Fletcher
N/A (F) M Antoine-Curier (55)

N/A (G) A McNeil
N/A (D) T Joneleit
N/A (M) R Chisholm
N/A (M) F Morais (55)
N/A (M) D Shiels (76)
N/A (F) C Donaldson
N/A (F) A Benjelloun (55)

Collins signed dreadful players, had us playing a system that was being found out and pussed out and ran the second the going got tough imo. He also had significantly more to spend then his successors and signed some of the worst of the lot we've been stuck with over these past few years. Would be very disappointed to see him back.

[hibs4thecup1988]

Collins coming back would be perfect in my eyes. Think he would get the chance to be a manager for us and that Leeann would support him.

10/1 is huge

[SouthMoroccoStu]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

This.

The lack of fitness and driver in our team last year was appalling

JC will fix that within weeks.

This is what will get us out of the championship

[matty_f]

Collins would be great if we could get someone else in with him to handle the press, identify players, do the training, team selections, man management, and sticking around when something happens he doesn't like.

[TowerHibs]

Collins would be great if we could get someone else in with him to handle the press, identify players, do the training, team selections, man management, and sticking around when something happens he doesn't like.

People slating man management skills but celtic wanting him as their number 2 I would argue that you need to be a better "people" person as an assistant.

Collins would bring Bouzy into his coaching team which would get the players onside. 100%

Would also suggest him and Dempster would work well. Both driven and determined characters.

[nribs]

People slating man management skills but celtic wanting him as their number 2 I would argue that you need to be a better "people" person as an assistant.

Collins would bring Bouzy into his coaching team which would get the players onside. 100%

Would also suggest him and Dempster would work well. Both driven and determined characters.

How do you know Collins would bring Bouzy into his coaching team?

[500miles]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

Makalamby and Clayton Donaldson off the top of my head.

[Www1875hfc]

John Collins will be unveiled as Celtic Assistant manager on Friday or later today.

[southern hibby]

I remember we beat Celtic at Easter Road. Collins had Strachan second guessing his every move. During the game we constantly swapped formation from 4,4,2 to 4,5,1 then back and just did everything correct that day. Collins does has his faults. Tactically he can change a game, how many first pick players did he actually get to sign?

Let's be honest here, the few players who keep themselves fit and look after their body play the game longer. He identified a culture at Easter Road and tried to change it. It never happened and we've been possibly the unfittest team I'n the league for most of those seasons since.

If nothing else I would have him as our fitness coach. At least we might get players to actually look interested I'n chasing a ball, tracking back and who's re-actions to a 50-50 ball might improve our chances of winning said 50-50 ball.

GGTTH

[davym7062]

Yip and remember him making one of the most tactically inept decisions I've ever seen in playing Ross Chisholm at centre defence against Aberdeen, the guy was 5 foot nothing predictably someone out jumped him and scored

That wasn't the worst IMO Damon Gray up front in the SC semi with Dunfermline with Steven fletcher on the bench

[The Falcon]

How many of John Collins' first picks did Petrie sign?

Yves Makalamby and Alan O'Brien off the top of my head.

[jdships]

collins coming back would be perfect in my eyes. Think he would get the chance to be a manager for us and that leeann would support him.

10/1 is huge

no thankyou

[jdships]

John Collins will be unveiled as Celtic Assistant manager on Friday or later today.


:agree::thumbsup:

[Vini1875]

I have JC back but doubt it will happen. However we do a manger with his mentality for the club. He wanted us to raise standards all over the place and I think he did, maybe too high for some players. As has been said our Petries defining moment was when he sided with the players behind the managers back. Their strop and the loss of the Scottish Cup semi to Dunfermline was for me where our slide began.

Also I think some managers suit certain clubs TB at Inverness and JC at Hibs, its just a pity the board would not back him.

[jacomo]

The idea of him signing an entire first team makes me shudder. No thanks.

As I've said, get at least one good scout sand a more approachable figure as his assistant - maybe Ian Murray or Boozy. JC has ambition and ideas but needs a no.2 who can put an arm round the players when necessary.

[Brightside]

I'd have JC back at the club in a heartbeat.

[bigwheel]

I'd have JC back at the club in a heartbeat.

As Manager ? When the whole team , other than 2 players , protested against his management style ? And he has failed to secure another management role other than a 6 month stint since then ?

There is no doubt he has a great football mind , but any role where he is people managing must be a question mark

[Weststandwanab]

John Collins will be unveiled as Celtic Assistant manager on Friday or later today.

Excellent, maybe he can get Griffiths sacked.

[Brightside]

As Manager ? When the whole team , other than 2 players , protested against his management style ? And he has failed to secure another management role other than a 6 month stint since then ?

There is no doubt he has a great football mind , but any role where he is people managing must be a question mark
I've stood next to him at SFA sessions. He's a fantastic coach and motivator. Our club was honking. He wasn't allowed to fix that.

[bigwheel]

I've stood next to him at SFA sessions. He's a fantastic coach and motivator. Our club was honking. He wasn't allowed to fix that.

The skill of coaching and the skills of management are markedly different - I'd be delighted if Collins was running our training sessions ...the feedback from those around him, is he has very poor man management skills - so probably why he has failed to secure other jobs and , for me , qualifies him out of our job

[bingo70]

I've stood next to him at SFA sessions. He's a fantastic coach and motivator. Our club was honking. He wasn't allowed to fix that.

Agree.

He made Kevin McCann, Lewis Stevenson, Scott Brown, Chris Hogg, benji and zemmama better players. How someone with such bad man management skills could do that I don't know? The sickening thing is there's pish managers that people think are good man managers because they're liked.

He demands high standards, something that's been missing from our club for years. He'd get the best out of forster, Stanton abd Harris, I'm absolutely certain of that.

My only concern with him is his record in the transfer market but hopefully he'd have learnt from his mistakes.

[Brightside]

He's been working with the SFA for a while and had no lack of offers. He doesn't have poor man management. He identified that we had a lazy unfit squad. That has never been fixed and was something butcher said right after he started. I'd happily let him and Leeann replace every single player that won't walk the line.

[bigwheel]

He's been working with the SFA for a while and had no lack of offers. He doesn't have poor man management. He identified that we had a lazy unfit squad. That has never been fixed and was something butcher said right after he started. I'd happily let him and Leeann replace every single player that won't walk the line.

I'm sorry , I'd rather take the view of the players he has managed - almost every Hibs player thought he was a terrible man manager - don't get me wrong I really value his football philosophy and what he tried to do at Hibs , but in people management it is as much about how you do it, not just what you do ..

[Paloschi]

I would like to have Collins back as DOF or Gaffer. I'd have Mowbray and McLeish before him though.

That being said my preference would be someone like Owen Coyle or a foreign manager.

I have a bad feeling about McCall!

[Hibs History]

Back page of The Sun.....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203183376538497&set=gm.749293938425436&type=1

[Turkish Green]

JC will come nowhere need the Club while RP is anywhere near the boardroom. Hatred may be a lose term.




PETRIE OOT

[inglisavhibs]

Always welcome at ER is our JC

One of our own

Champions League Class
Always welcome but not as a manager.

[Brightside]

I'm sorry , I'd rather take the view of the players he has managed - almost every Hibs player thought he was a terrible man manager - don't get me wrong I really value his football philosophy and what he tried to do at Hibs , but in people management it is as much about how you do it, not just what you do ..

Players who were lazy and unwilling to change diet and lifestyle.

[skipster7]

Get Petrie out and put Collins in, if anyone has unfinished business it is JC.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42699000/jpg/_42699097_football_416.jpg

Ivan Sproule in the Sunday Mail at the weekend with an article saying JC was the best manager he'd worked under in his career. huge on motivation. The night before the cup final he gave each member of the squad a dvd of their personal highlights of the season." We walked into Hampden feeling 10ft tall and knew we were going to win. ":greengrin JCGAWA

[bigwheel]

Players who were lazy and unwilling to change diet and lifestyle.

I'm sorry, but Steven Fletcher, Scott Brown, Rob Jones, Chris Hogg ect etc...were neither lazy or unwilling to develop...

[VPHIBEE]

John Collins has to rank up there beside Terry Butcher in the awful man manager stakes. I have said this before:

When he took over the last time, I said to my wife, I am not happy about this appointment. I can see all the players turning round and saying aye right John.

What happened, exactly what I predicted.

That team won the league cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was a knob and couldn't wait to get away when the chance came. With a good manager that team may have stayed together a bit longer than it did.

Not for me, no way, never.

[bigwheel]

John Collins has to rank up there beside Terry Butcher in the awful man manager stakes. I have said this before:

When he took over the last time, I said to my wife, I am not happy about this appointment. I can see all the players turning round and saying aye right John.

What happened, exactly what I predicted.

That team won the league cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was a knob and couldn't wait to get away when the chance came. With a good manager that team may have stayed together a bit longer than it did.

Not for me, no way, never.

you shouldn't sit on the fence - say what you think man! :-)

[Turkish Green]

I know from the 1 v 1 coaching my lad got from JC that he is is an excellent coach. But I somehow got the impression that he did not suffer fools, nor players that he considered to have inferior ability to himself nor those players that did not give (in his eyes) 100% effort.

His does not have the nature to be a manager. Should stick to punditry.

[skipster7]

John Collins has to rank up there beside Terry Butcher in the awful man manager stakes. I have said this before:

When he took over the last time, I said to my wife, I am not happy about this appointment. I can see all the players turning round and saying aye right John.

What happened, exactly what I predicted.

That team won the league cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was a knob and couldn't wait to get away when the chance came. With a good manager that team may have stayed together a bit longer than it did.

Not for me, no way, never.
With the greatest respect thats bollocks. we would probably lost to ST J. in the semis under Mowbray. Why on earth would the players turn round and say aye right to a guy who has played at the very top level ? Dont you think if they'd had anything about them they should have been busting a gut to impress him. :confused:

[Bad Martini]

Bring him home. Johnny Collins green and white army :greengrin:

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

I'm sorry, but Steven Fletcher, Scott Brown, Rob Jones, Chris Hogg ect etc...were neither lazy or unwilling to develop...

All these players improved under JC.

[Betty Boop]

Bring him home. Johnny Collins green and white army :greengrin:

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Yea love him (and his six pack) ! You're all jealous on here ! :na na:

[jacomo]

John Collins has to rank up there beside Terry Butcher in the awful man manager stakes. I have said this before:

When he took over the last time, I said to my wife, I am not happy about this appointment. I can see all the players turning round and saying aye right John.

What happened, exactly what I predicted.

That team won the league cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was a knob and couldn't wait to get away when the chance came. With a good manager that team may have stayed together a bit longer than it did.

Not for me, no way, never.

Laugable post. JC got 90 minute performances that Butcher couldn't even dream about. Not sure I have ever seen a Hibs team execute a tactical plan (eg against OF) so completely.

I'm feeling sorry for your wife.

[Gatecrasher]

No thanks, he's done nothing since leaving us that should be a warning in its self.

[IanM]

a John Collins, Ian Murray, Boozy dreamteam in essence is exactly what we're looking for - be nice if we could morph all 3 to keep the wage down tho!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

And was so hopeless, he won the CIS cup as Manager:rolleyes:

[bingo70]

And was so hopeless, he won the CIS cup as Manager:rolleyes:

Someone criticized him earlier in the thread cos we went from 5th to 6th under him, considering the players he lost that's not a bad effort.

[.Sean.]

And was so hopeless, he won the CIS cup as Manager:rolleyes:
'Aye wi' Mowbray's team', nonsense.

I'd take JC back in a heartbeat.

[IanM]

'Aye wi' Mowbray's team', nonsense.

I'd take JC back in a heartbeat.

agree, that isnt even an argument..

if that's the thinking then Terry Butcher wasn't to blame for us getting relegated as that was Pat's team.. utter tosh..

[leggeto]

Can't see him coming back while rod is still here after trying to sell all his players under his nose

[Baldy Foghorn]

'Aye wi' Mowbray's team', nonsense.

I'd take JC back in a heartbeat.

Me too Sean, still idolise the man......

[stantonhibby]

'Aye wi' Mowbray's team', nonsense.

I'd take JC back in a heartbeat.


Funny how Mowbray couldn't win anything with Mowbrays team .

For a start he would probably still have had Zibi in goals so that would be us 1 down.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Someone criticized him earlier in the thread cos we went from 5th to 6th under him, considering the players he lost that's not a bad effort.

He made some mistakes, who doesn't? I would love him to come in, and apply a new fitness regime to the player's, and with the right number 2, help him guide us to bigger and better things........

[Baldy Foghorn]

Can't see him coming back while rod is still here after trying to sell all his players under his nose

Maybe further proof that RP isn't going to be involved, if JC came back?

[robinp]

'Aye wi' Mowbray's team', nonsense.

I'd take JC back in a heartbeat.

My response to that has always been we would have lost the semi final against St Johnstone if TM was in charge.

[bingo70]

He made some mistakes, who doesn't? I would love him to come in, and apply a new fitness regime to the player's, and with the right number 2, help him guide us to bigger and better things........

I remember the difference in the team from a fitness perspective the summer after he got in Roger propos, remember thinking we were finally looking like a professional outfit and looked physically as strong as anyone including Celtic and rangers.

[Lmc2105]

Me too Sean, still idolise the man......


Could not agree more! he would bring back the supporters am sure of that! if he wasn't stabbed in the back he could have done great things at our football club!

[Bronson]

It would appear he's in the frame for the job according to The Scotsman. I'd definitely take him myself, much better appointment than the likes of Danny Lennon or dare I say it... Kenny Shiels who have been linked with us in the Daily Rangers. Please Leeann, don't do it:pray:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I remember the difference in the team from a fitness perspective the summer after he got in Roger propos, remember thinking we were finally looking like a professional outfit and looked physically as strong as anyone including Celtic and rangers.

Yes agree bingo......

[Stevie Reid]

I can't be arsed dragging up everything that I've written about him before, but every measurable aspect of JC's tenure at Hibs - trophy wins, league position, derby record, OF wins, home record, win ratio, goals scored - point to Collins being a very good Hibs manager.

Yes he left under curious circumstances, and the early signs were that many of the newer signings weren't going to be that good - but if Collins is the definition of a bad Hibs manager (as many on here would have you believe), then we've never had a good one.

I'm not convinced he's the man for us now, but he was good for us first time round.

[18Craig75]

John Collins SOS!!

Anyone with doubts should watch the video of us passing Rangers of the park at Ibrox... 'Oleee, olleee, olleee ...' Oh to be at a Hibs game enjoying myself like that again. I've forgotten what it feels like.

[truehibernian]

I remember the difference in the team from a fitness perspective the summer after he got in Roger propos, remember thinking we were finally looking like a professional outfit and looked physically as strong as anyone including Celtic and rangers.

The core fitness of the side was amazing - Hibs scored a great many goals in the last 10 of games due to them being far fitter than the opposing side. Not only that they defended well as a unit.

I'd never seen Benji so lean and our midfied so competitive - the downside was that Mickey Stewart I think played on 'illness' rather a lot (which was convenient) and that I disagreed with his use of Deano.......Deano was not an 'impact player' for me, he was a great starting player in a side.

[bigwheel]

Most of us love JC's philosophy, his more modern thinking, his football values. He has many attributes that are perfect for the role. Unfortunately, he is missing a key skill set - an ability to consistently build trust, motivate and lead a group of men..if he had that in his locker as well as his technical skills, frankly, he'd be managing at a much higher level than us.

I'd love JC to be a great football manager - the facts suggests he doesn't have the full range of attributes required for the role.

[Kato]

I can't be arsed dragging up everything that I've written about him before, but every measurable aspect of JC's tenure at Hibs - trophy wins, league position, derby record, OF wins, home record, win ratio, goals scored - point to Collins being a very good Hibs manager.




...except for man management, which is 80% of the job.

[Stevie Reid]

John Collins has to rank up there beside Terry Butcher in the awful man manager stakes. I have said this before:

When he took over the last time, I said to my wife, I am not happy about this appointment. I can see all the players turning round and saying aye right John.

What happened, exactly what I predicted.

That team won the league cup despite him, not because of him. They all thought he was a knob and couldn't wait to get away when the chance came. With a good manager that team may have stayed together a bit longer than it did.

Not for me, no way, never.

A guy who managed a team to a national cup win by beating a team that finished above us in the SPL 5-1 (along with many other notable results, as if that wasn't enough) is on a par with the guy who took over an average SPL team and turned into the worst in the league, and got us relegated, in the space of 6 months? Wow.

This would be one of the most unbelievable posts I've read on here, but they're make remarkably often about Collins. He is one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy for us - for that, he should be revered, full stop.

[Stevie Reid]

...except for man management, which is 80% of the job.

80%? Really? How is the other 20% broken down?

So if a manager fails/is poor at everything else I listed and gets poor results - but the players love him - he is a success as he's got 80% of his job right?

Sounds reasonable.

[The Falcon]

Laugable post. JC got 90 minute performances that Butcher couldn't even dream about. Not sure I have ever seen a Hibs team execute a tactical plan (eg against OF) so completely..

so what do think went wrong against Dunfermline a month later?

[loanheadhibby]

A guy who managed a team to a national cup win by beating a team that finished above us in the SPL 5-1 (along with many other notable results, as if that wasn't enough) is on a par with the guy who took over an average SPL team and turned into the worst in the league, and got us relegated, in the space of 6 months? Wow.

This would be one of the most unbelievable posts I've read on here, but they're make remarkably often about Collins. He is one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy for us - for that, he should be revered, full stop.

Agreed,

However, he did also bring us Alan O'Brien, Brian Kerr, Makacalamity, Hong Kong Thierry Gatussei and Tommy Craig to name but a few. I'd love it to be Collins but not sure he has an eye for a player. I reckon assistand manager at Celtic will be more appealing to him.

Owen Coyle for me if he would take it.

[Kato]

80%? Really? How is the other 20% broken down?

Tactics and handling the budget.

Man management used to be considered 90% of a managers job up until recently when tactics have become slightly more important.

You could be the best tactician in the world but if you can't get the players to put it all out there for you then the tactical know-how is rendered useless.

It's well known that Jock Stein had zero tactical nous, Bobby Murdoch and Bertie Auld sorted all that out, but every player who played under him would run through a brick wall for him (rather than run to the Chiarman to complain.)

Brian Clough left most tactics to Peter Taylor and the more intelligent players but again he had that aura where players worshipped him.

It's not a computer game, you don't type your tactics in and the little pixelated figures put them into practice, it's an emotional game and much of it played in the players minds and mind-set. Some players liked JC and some thought he was the worst ever, without unity throughout the side nothing will come off for you and I doubt he has the "people skills" to bring that unity.

[Kato]

so what do think went wrong against Dunfermline a month later?

He lost the respect of some of the players so his tactical know how counted for f*** all.

[jacomo]

so what do think went wrong against Dunfermline a month later?

Hibs switched off. JC was focused on the next win but the team had already won the League Cup and went into holiday mode.

This is quite common with teams who win silverware infrequently. Winning is a habit and a discipline and winning the 2nd trophy is often harder than winning the 1st.

Other examples:

Birmingham win League Cup under McLeish, relegated same season.

Spurs win League Cup, form collapses, Juande Ramos sacked 6 months later.

[gegs70]

I.don't think Collins is the answer bup did highlight that he wanted to bring in a better calibre of player than hibs were willing to pay out for. And that was.when players were starting to be sold on for big money....the.penny pinching started at that point!

[Stevie Reid]

Tactics and handling the budget.

Man management used to be considered 90% of a managers job up until recently when tactics have become slightly more important.

You could be the best tactician in the world but if you can't get the players to put it all out there for you then the tactical know-how is rendered useless.

It's well known that Jock Stein had zero tactical nous, Bobby Murdoch and Bertie Auld sorted all that out, but every player who played under him would run through a brick wall for him (rather than run to the Chiarman to complain.)

Brian Clough left most tactics to Peter Taylor and the more intelligent players but again he had that aura where players worshipped him.

It's not a computer game, you don't type your tactics in and the little pixelated figures put them into practice, it's an emotional game and much of it played in the players minds and mind-set. Some players liked JC and some thought he was the worst ever, without unity throughout the side nothing will come off for you and I doubt he has the "people skills" to bring that unity.

Conversely, you could be a great motivational speaker, but it wouldn't mean you should be allowed anywhere near a football team. You make some interesting points, but you're mainly talking about people who managed decades ago - and above all, given all the considerations in the modern game, I really think you've simplified the role of the manager to quite a ridiculous degree, purely based on conjecture (however, if you now point out that you've managed a football team at a high level, I'll reconsider that last part).

I don't know how a manager's role is, or should be, broken down these days, but I do know that Collins' achievements with Hibs are tangible - whilst the revolt is well documented (and was utterly ridiculous given that the players involved had just gained winners' medals), his man management failings are much harder to quanfity; especially since a trophy was won in the midst of it all.

You placing so much emphasis on it in light of what Collins achieved in his time here, doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny IMO.

[judas]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

this

[judas]

Agreed,

However, he did also bring us Alan O'Brien, Brian Kerr, Makacalamity, Hong Kong Thierry Gatussei and Tommy Craig to name but a few. I'd love it to be Collins but not sure he has an eye for a player. I reckon assistand manager at Celtic will be more appealing to him.

Owen Coyle for me if he would take it.

He won't get the Celtic assistant job. Scott Brown told the Celtic chieftans he was a cock.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Tactics and handling the budget.

Man management used to be considered 90% of a managers job up until recently when tactics have become slightly more important.

You could be the best tactician in the world but if you can't get the players to put it all out there for you then the tactical know-how is rendered useless.

It's well known that Jock Stein had zero tactical nous, Bobby Murdoch and Bertie Auld sorted all that out, but every player who played under him would run through a brick wall for him (rather than run to the Chiarman to complain.)

Brian Clough left most tactics to Peter Taylor and the more intelligent players but again he had that aura where players worshipped him.

It's not a computer game, you don't type your tactics in and the little pixelated figures put them into practice, it's an emotional game and much of it played in the players minds and mind-set. Some players liked JC and some thought he was the worst ever, without unity throughout the side nothing will come off for you and I doubt he has the "people skills" to bring that unity.

John Collins did get players to perform for him though. The players that actually bought into his way of doing this, the training, the lifestyle, the fitness really improved under him. Stevenson has only went backwards since then. Petrie should never have gave in to the players that revolted. They should have been told to do one. It's that type of player that has been responsible for getting us into the mess we're in.

So what if some of the players didn't like his methods? Tough for them. They don't like it, leave. Collins methods worked. The guy had such a great career through dedication to football, and the training and lifestyle required to be successful. He was quite right to demand that level of dedication from his players.

I honestly can't believe the level of stick on here for a guy that had us fitter than I've ever seen, playing some great football and won us a cup. The problems at this club really started the moment Petrie backed the players in that revolt.

[spike220]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

Is that you Rod?

[raeburnhibs]

this

ludicrous, were you there the day we won the cup under Collins? It was my greatest day as a Hibs fan, easily. Cup win = legend.

[Kato]

John Collins did get players to perform for him though. The players that actually bought into his way of doing this, the training, the lifestyle, the fitness really improved under him. Stevenson has only went backwards since then. Petrie should never have gave in to the players that revolted. They should have been told to do one. It's that type of player that has been responsible for getting us into the mess we're in.

So what if some of the players didn't like his methods? Tough for them. They don't like it, leave. Collins methods worked. The guy had such a great career through dedication to football, and the training and lifestyle required to be successful. He was quite right to demand that level of dedication from his players.

I honestly can't believe the level of stick on here for a guy that had us fitter than I've ever seen, playing some great football and won us a cup. The problems at this club really started the moment Petrie backed the players in that revolt.

He got them to perform for a while.

I think he should have made certain things optional for the older players and graded his methods into the whole squad as the squad changed personel. No matter why the players revolted, they revolted under his watch so he lost some of them.

How to Petrie "give in" to those players? It's well known he told them that the manager was in charge and that they do as he said.

[nribs]

The difference is Collins inherited a very decent squad. This time he'd have to build a team. I dont fancy that idea.

[leggeto]

Maybe further proof that RP isn't going to be involved, if JC came back?

Maybe if LD backed him completely and rod had nothing to do with him,does he want a manager job like us or a nice wee cooshy job with no pressure, its perfect for whoever comes in as we have an almost clean slate to work with and that might suit him,I think it will be either Stuart McCall or ian Murray who comes in

[blackpoolhibs]

He's been working with the SFA for a while and had no lack of offers. He doesn't have poor man management. He identified that we had a lazy unfit squad. That has never been fixed and was something butcher said right after he started. I'd happily let him and Leeann replace every single player that won't walk the line.

Thats just complete bollox.

[paul_hfc3]

His signings were very poor. But he was a good manager for us.

I wouldn't mind JC being the manager and Steve Marsella buying the players.

[nribs]

His signings were very poor. But he was a good manager definitely.

I wouldn't mind JC being the manager and Steve Marsella buying the players.
I hope this never happens

[Kato]

Conversely, you could be a great motivational speaker, but it wouldn't mean you should be allowed anywhere near a football team.

I never said being a great motivational speaker should allow you near a football team, sometimes saying nothing is good man management. Your simplifiing the idea of man management. There was a good discussion on the radio during this season (can't remember who) but during it someone said tactics are only 15% of a match for any team, the rest si coping with the other team and working the ball into positions whereby tactics can be put into practice. That's just graft and a good manager who gets people to graft for them is a good man manager.



You make some interesting points, but you're mainly talking about people who managed decades ago - and above all, given all the considerations in the modern game, I really think you've simplified the role of the manager to quite a ridiculous degree, purely based on conjecture (however, if you now point out that you've managed a football team at a high level, I'll reconsider that last part).

Football is still a simple game, always has been. The best teams make it look easy because the execution of tactics is easy if your fit, trust your team-mates and trust your manager - all this brings confidence. Jose Mourinho is an example of someone who is almost wholly a man manager, he's never kicked a ball in anger himself but knows how to delegate tactical instruction and all his players want to please him as he has the knack of getting them to play for him. If he were a cack-handed twat around the players he signed he wouldn't get the performances he does out of them.


I don't know how a manager's role is, or should be, broken down these days, but I do know that Collins' achievements with Hibs are tangible - whilst the revolt is well documented (and was utterly ridiculous given that the players involved had just gained winners' medals), his man management failings are much harder to quanfity; especially since a trophy was won in the midst of it all.

True he won a trophy and no-one can take that away, his tactics and his fitness regime went a long way to winning that as did the players initially buying into his ideals. His man management failings are pretty easy to quantify in that it's very rare for a group of players to go to the Chairman in the way that group did. We had a great chance of winning the SC as well but he failed to keep them together. If he had some kind of understanding of his players as people that wouldn't have happened and we would haev at least a chance to play a poor Celtic side in the final.

If Collins returns I'll support him but would hope he's learned his lesson, saying that I don't know if that personal connection across a range of personalities is something that can be learned.


You placing so much emphasis on it in light of what Collins achieved in his time here, doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny IMO.

I could easily say you are wanting to gloss over the man managament aspect to cover his short-falls in that area. Look at any history book on football or any good up and coming manager and you'll see managers who are understand people.

[Lago]

Collins would be great if we could get someone else in with him to handle the press, identify players, do the training, team selections, man management, and sticking around when something happens he doesn't like.

Tommy Craig:thumbsup:

[Hiber-nation]

He won't get the Celtic assistant job. Scott Brown told the Celtic chieftans he was a cock.

Aye, Dermot Desmond will hang on Broony's every word right enough.

[Peevemor]

Tommy Craig:thumbsup:

Gottle o' geer, gottle o' geer ...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I never said being a great motivational speaker should allow you near a football team, sometimes saying nothing is good man management. Your simplifiing the idea of man management. There was a good discussion on the radio during this season (can't remember who) but during it someone said tactics are only 15% of a match for any team, the rest si coping with the other team and working the ball into positions whereby tactics can be put into practice. That's just graft and a good manager who gets people to graft for them is a good man manager.

Football is still a simple game, always has been. The best teams make it look easy because the execution of tactics is easy if your fit, trust your team-mates and trust your manager - all this brings confidence. Jose Mourinho is an example of someone who is almost wholly a man manager, he's never kicked a ball in anger himself but knows how to delegate tactical instruction and all his players want to please him as he has the knack of getting them to play for him. If he were a cack-handed twat around the players he signed he wouldn't get the performances he does out of them.

True he won a trophy and no-one can take that away, his tactics and his fitness regime went a long way to winning that as did the players initially buying into his ideals. His man management failings are pretty easy to quantify in that it's very rare for a group of players to go to the Chairman in the way that group did. We had a great chance of winning the SC as well but he failed to keep them together. If he had some kind of understanding of his players as people that wouldn't have happened and we would haev at least a chance to play a poor Celtic side in the final.

If Collins returns I'll support him but would hope he's learned his lesson, saying that I don't know if that personal connection across a range of personalities is something that can be learned.

I could easily say you are wanting to gloss over the man managament aspect to cover his short-falls in that area. Look at any history book on football or any good up and coming manager and you'll see managers who are understand people.

Is htis not tactics? Tactics dont only work in certain areas of a pitch.

Also, your redctionism around Mourinho i have to take issue with. To say he delegates tactical is certainly not my understanding of someone who is the one of the most tactically astute and aware managers going. From what i have read of him, he is very hands-on, and goes to great degrees of detail on every aspect of his team. This to me is why he is so effective - as you point out, his amazing man management skills, allied to amazing tactical skills are why he is better than almost any other coach around.

That being said, he has still had some relative failures (Real Madrid for a spell...), and anothe great man manager that springs to mind, Martin O'Neill has had likewise (Sunderland, after initially doing very well).

Its my view that sometimes people just fit a job at a certain time. Failing at one job doesnt make a bad manager any more than succeeding at one makes a good one.

I dont know whether or not Collins is a good manager. But i know that he was a brilliant Hibs manager at that time. Easily the most accomplished displays i saw from Hibs ever came under him. And dont give me this 'Mowbray's team' nonsense. Anyone who watched Hibs then would have seen the transition from Mowbray's team (fairly indisciplined, poor defensively, pretty straight forward tactically, soft centred and easily bullied) to Collins team, which rectified many of those weaknesses. That it never kicked-on was a shame (and gien we have been in decline ever since, would suggest something deeper than just Collins falling out with players), but Collins Hibs were the best Hibs team since McLeish's in my opinion.

Lastly, look how many individual players improved under Collins. Noticeably, and while i dont deny he clearly fell out with some players, his man management and prep leading up to that final were magnificient, and drew the most magnificiant Hibs performance since Turnbull's time.

Im not saying he should get the job now. But dont try and paint his Hibs reign as anything other than hugely successful.

[Brightside]

You'd have to not watch much football to think Jose isn't one of the most tactically astute managers in football. He gets on well with players that follow him and do as they are told. If they don't they are quickly sold. There is nothing wrong the management skills of Collins. He highlighted players that were not being professional and should have been punted. If he'd had his way back then we be top 3 year in year out.

[AlbertK86]

John Collins did get players to perform for him though. The players that actually bought into his way of doing this, the training, the lifestyle, the fitness really improved under him. Stevenson has only went backwards since then. Petrie should never have gave in to the players that revolted. They should have been told to do one. It's that type of player that has been responsible for getting us into the mess we're in. So what if some of the players didn't like his methods? Tough for them. They don't like it, leave. Collins methods worked. The guy had such a great career through dedication to football, and the training and lifestyle required to be successful. He was quite right to demand that level of dedication from his players. I honestly can't believe the level of stick on here for a guy that had us fitter than I've ever seen, playing some great football and won us a cup. The problems at this club really started the moment Petrie backed the players in that revolt.

Great post

[Lago]

Gottle o' geer, gottle o' geer ...

Every time I think of that press conference I just burst out laughing, classic.

[AlbertK86]

ludicrous, were you there the day we won the cup under Collins? It was my greatest day as a Hibs fan, easily. Cup win = legend.

Likewise .... My laddie was 10 and had been to Hamden regularly only for it to end in disappointment.

He still goes on about it.

For me it was the best day as a Hibby. Yep I'd seen them win the league cup twice before but to be there with my laddie and witness such an accomplished footballing performance will live with me forever.

It is up there with the best footballing performances I've seen from Hibs

7-0, 6-2 v them and the two 0-3s at ibrox

Collins demands football be played the proper way by dedicated professionals who want to learn under a proper fitness regime....... Just what nearly everybody on this forum demands we should get

[Stevie Reid]

I never said being a great motivational speaker should allow you near a football team, sometimes saying nothing is good man management. Your simplifiing the idea of man management. There was a good discussion on the radio during this season (can't remember who) but during it someone said tactics are only 15% of a match for any team, the rest si coping with the other team and working the ball into positions whereby tactics can be put into practice. That's just graft and a good manager who gets people to graft for them is a good man manager.

I'm not in any way simplifying the idea of man management - I'm making the point that when tangible success is achieved with Collins' style, it's hard to argue with. I'd take a player revolt every year if it followed on the heels of a trophy win. The players involved in that revolt had seemed to have lost sight of why they had become footballers - what part of playing in a successful team, winning medals, and playing football that fans are happy to watch, didn't fit in with their dreams and ambitions? If training is boring but leads to good performances and success on the park- so what? Get on with it. If Collins is aloof but his methods are working on the park - so what? Get on with it.

You've quoted a few old school managers in your posts - Brian Clough once punched a player right in the mouth after a game; what do you think he would make of a journeyman nobody like Simon Brown comparing the conditions in Hibs luxury training complex in Spain to a prison camp? And all because they weren't allowed a bevvy?! Collins may have been deficient in his man management, but some of those players clearly needed their head read.

FWIW, these random percentages that you're throwing around (tactics 15% of a match, for example) are not helping your argument in my eyes.



Football is still a simple game, always has been. The best teams make it look easy because the execution of tactics is easy if your fit, trust your team-mates and trust your manager - all this brings confidence. Jose Mourinho is an example of someone who is almost wholly a man manager, he's never kicked a ball in anger himself but knows how to delegate tactical instruction and all his players want to please him as he has the knack of getting them to play for him. If he were a cack-handed twat around the players he signed he wouldn't get the performances he does out of them.

Jose Mourinho takes tactics to an unbelievable level of depth and detail, way beyond simple - he is obviously a great man manager also, but you can't possibly attribute his success as mainly being down to that. He is a perfect modern day manager, with many, many facets.



True he won a trophy and no-one can take that away, his tactics and his fitness regime went a long way to winning that as did the players initially buying into his ideals. His man management failings are pretty easy to quantify in that it's very rare for a group of players to go to the Chairman in the way that group did. We had a great chance of winning the SC as well but he failed to keep them together. If he had some kind of understanding of his players as people that wouldn't have happened and we would haev at least a chance to play a poor Celtic side in the final.

If Collins returns I'll support him but would hope he's learned his lesson, saying that I don't know if that personal connection across a range of personalities is something that can be learned.


The success is much easier defined in a trophy win than the effect of the revolt on performances - though a few of them were poor after that cup win.



I could easily say you are wanting to gloss over the man managament aspect to cover his short-falls in that area. Look at any history book on football or any good up and coming manager and you'll see managers who are understand people.

You could easily say that, but I don't see how it's backed up. I'm not glossing over anything, the gloss is already there - provided by all of Collins' successes here. Conversely, you're picking away the gloss to try and show that the issues underneath were more significant that they actually were. It was a good Hibs team, that achieved something that very few others have - the revolt prevented them from achieving more, but it doesn't devalue Collins' achievements that went before it.

[Kato]

Is htis not tactics? Tactics dont only work in certain areas of a pitch.

Also, your redctionism around Mourinho i have to take issue with. To say he delegates tactical is certainly not my understanding of someone who is the one of the most tactically astute and aware managers going. From what i have read of him, he is very hands-on, and goes to great degrees of detail on every aspect of his team. This to me is why he is so effective - as you point out, his amazing man management skills, allied to amazing tactical skills are why he is better than almost any other coach around.

That being said, he has still had some relative failures (Real Madrid for a spell...), and anothe great man manager that springs to mind, Martin O'Neill has had likewise (Sunderland, after initially doing very well).

Its my view that sometimes people just fit a job at a certain time. Failing at one job doesnt make a bad manager any more than succeeding at one makes a good one.

I dont know whether or not Collins is a good manager. But i know that he was a brilliant Hibs manager at that time. Easily the most accomplished displays i saw from Hibs ever came under him. And dont give me this 'Mowbray's team' nonsense. Anyone who watched Hibs then would have seen the transition from Mowbray's team (fairly indisciplined, poor defensively, pretty straight forward tactically, soft centred and easily bullied) to Collins team, which rectified many of those weaknesses. That it never kicked-on was a shame (and gien we have been in decline ever since, would suggest something deeper than just Collins falling out with players), but Collins Hibs were the best Hibs team since McLeish's in my opinion.

Lastly, look how many individual players improved under Collins. Noticeably, and while i dont deny he clearly fell out with some players, his man management and prep leading up to that final were magnificient, and drew the most magnificiant Hibs performance since Turnbull's time.

Im not saying he should get the job now. But dont try and paint his Hibs reign as anything other than hugely successful.


Mourinho knows what he wants out on the park but has a back room staff to instruct him/the players on how to put it into practice.

I never gave you any "Mowbray's team nonsense" and don't buy into that idea. We won the Cup because Collins improved various aspects of the playing side and did it very well. Fact remains he didn't handle that group of players very well the whole time he had them so his man management skills come into question, no? However brilliant he was for the first few months it soon went into decline and don't forget it was he who left and didn't have the balls to stick around.

I've always wondered why he felt he should be allowed to spend £5M. A young manager usually comes with a few mates who are willing to play for him, and he had four years out of the game to build up that network yet we ended up with some very indifferent players. I wouln't give any rookie £5M to spend until he had proved himself in the transfer market. Collins never did prove himself there and I'm still glad we didn't give him what he wanted.

[Kato]

I'm not in any way simplifying the idea of man management - I'm making the point that when tangible success is achieved with said style, it's hard to argue with. I'd take a player revolt every year if it followed on the heels of a trophy win. The players involved in that revolt had seemed to have lost sight of why they had become footballers - what part of playing in a successful team, winning medals, and playing football that fans are happy to watch, didn't fit in with their dreams and ambitions? If training is boring but leads to good performances and success on the park- so what? Get on with it. If Collins is aloof but his methods are working on the park - so what? Get on with it.

But we don't knwo the whole story, only those who were involved do. One ex-player told me to be considered for the first team on a Saturday you had to run from Suaghton Park back to ER on the previous Thursday. That suits some players down to the ground and other will struggle but those who struggle to do that might still have a part to play as a football player coem Saturday.


You've quoted a few old school managers in your posts - Brian Clough once punched a player right in the mouth after a game; what do you think he would make of a journeyman nobody like Simon Brown comparing the conditions in Hibs luxury training complex in Spain to a prison camp? And all because they weren't allowed a bevvy?! Collins may have been deficient in his man management, but some of those players clearly needed their head read.

One punch in the mouth doesn't make Clough a bad man manager and one trophy doesn't make John Collins a great man manager,


FWIW, these random percentages that you're throwing around (tactics 15% of a match, for example) are not helping your argument in my eyes.

That's OK. I'm only regurgitating some sh*t I've heard professional regurgitating. Point remains you could be the best tacticuian in the world but if your man management is poor then they#'ll never be put into practice. A poor tactician who has very player fighting his corner can still gouge out results.





Jose Mourinho takes tactics to an unbelievable level of depth and detail, way beyond simple - he is obviously a great man manager also, but you can't possibly attribute his success as mainly being down to that. He is a perfect modern day manager, with many, many facets.

Agree but he gets his players to work hard to put those tactics (whoever thinks them up) because as person he's capable of getting other people to work very very hard for him.



The success is much easier defined in a trophy win than the effect of the revolt on performances - though a few of them were poor after that cup win.

Is it just coincidence we went from thumping Kilmarnock in a thrilling display to two of our most indifferent semi-final performances ever against a poor Dunfermline post the "revolt"?



You could easily say that, but I don't see how it's backed up. I'm not glossing over anything, the gloss is already there - provided by all of Collins' successes here. Conversely, you're picking away the gloss to try and show that the issues underneath were more significant that they actually were. It was a good Hibs team, that achieved something that very few others have - the revolt prevented them from achieving more, but it doesn't devalue Collins' achievements that went before it.

I'm taking his tenure as a whole. Great start, weird middle, indifferent ending. The gloss is the LC win and some very good League performances and I've already said no-one can argue with that. It's you who wants to only see the gloss and ignore the aftermath. Best chance we've had to win the SC for years but he failed to keep the group together as a team.

I'm unaware of his "successes" there was only one, right, the League Cup win?

[Weststandwanab]

80%? Really? How is the other 20% broken down?

So if a manager fails/is poor at everything else I listed and gets poor results - but the players love him - he is a success as he's got 80% of his job right?

Sounds reasonable.


Guesswork.

[ekhibee]

As I said in a previous post, IMO there's no chance of Collins coming back to Hibs while Petrie's still here. Another memory I have, and I had a certain amount of sympathy that way, was the Chris Killen situation. Killen was injured (again) for ages, and despite that Collins offered him a new contract. Killen held off and held off (whilst still injured) until Cardiff came in for him then he did the dirty on them too and signed for Celtic.

[Kato]

80%? Really? How is the other 20% broken down?

So if a manager fails/is poor at everything else I listed and gets poor results - but the players love him - he is a success as he's got 80% of his job right?

Sounds reasonable.

Aye, it does sound reasonable. But his job isn't to get 80% of anything right, it's to get results.

[Brightside]

Mourinho knows what he wants out on the park but has a back room staff to instruct him/the players on how to put it into practice.

I never gave you any "Mowbray's team nonsense" and don't buy into that idea. We won the Cup because Collins improved various aspects of the playing side and did it very well. Fact remains he didn't handle that group of players very well the whole time he had them so his man management skills come into question, no? However brilliant he was for the first few months it soon went into decline and don't forget it was he who left and didn't have the balls to stick around.

I've always wondered why he felt he should be allowed to spend £5M. A young manager usually comes with a few mates who are willing to play for him, and he had four years out of the game to build up that network yet we ended up with some very indifferent players. I wouln't give any rookie £5M to spend until he had proved himself in the transfer market. Collins never did prove himself there and I'm still glad we didn't give him what he wanted.

This is simply wrong. Jose decides on the tactics for every game.

[yekimevol]

Collins was hopeless at people management, hopeless at recruiting players, and hopeless at working within the confines of a budget.

He was hopeless at staying the distance when things got tough, and he's been hopeless at getting another manager's position since he last walked out of the job.

He'll never manage a football club again.

:top marks

[AlbertK86]

This is simply wrong. Jose decides on the tactics for every game.

Nah it was the old Scottish boy who is his Physio or whatever that gave the half time team talk was it not 😉

[Stevie Reid]

But we don't knwo the whole story, only those who were involved do. One ex-player told me to be considered for the first team on a Saturday you had to run from Suaghton Park back to ER on the previous Thursday. That suits some players down to the ground and other will struggle but those who struggle to do that might still have a part to play as a football player coem Saturday.



One punch in the mouth doesn't make Clough a bad man manager and one trophy doesn't make John Collins a great man manager,



That's OK. I'm only regurgitating some sh*t I've heard professional regurgitating. Point remains you could be the best tacticuian in the world but if your man management is poor then they#'ll never be put into practice. A poor tactician who has very player fighting his corner can still gouge out results.






Agree but he gets his players to work hard to put those tactics (whoever thinks them up) because as person he's capable of getting other people to work very very hard for him.




Is it just coincidence we went from thumping Kilmarnock in a thrilling display to two of our most indifferent semi-final performances ever against a poor Dunfermline post the "revolt"?




I'm taking his tenure as a whole. Great start, weird middle, indifferent ending. The gloss is the LC win and some very good League performances and I've already said no-one can argue with that. It's you who wants to only see the gloss and ignore the aftermath. Best chance we've had to win the SC for years but he failed to keep the group together as a team.

I'm unaware of his "successes" there was only one, right, the League Cup win?

I spend a lot of time spelling out exactly what my argument is, so I really shouldn't have to point out what it is not - at no time have I ever said that Collins is a great man manager, indeed I have acknowledged that he is deficient in that area. My argument is that it doesn't matter what it's like when you're successful on the park.

You're right that neither one of us knows the whole story of the revolt, which just makes you taking such a harsh view of Collins because of it even more puzzling. But from what little we do know, players complaining about the management style after winning (what was in some cases their only one) a trophy and a medal as a result of them, is at best unreasonable, and at worst, just plain crazy.

I also didn't claim that Clough was a bad man manager, but you referenced him as being a great man manager, and he punched one of his players in the face - and you criticize Collins for his style. It doesn't really add up.

As for the performances after the revolt, I did say that it could have been that which was responsible - however, after winning 6 and drawing the other 3 of our first 9 league games the following season, we then had one win in the next 9. There was no revolt then - teams at the level Hibs were then quite often went through good spells and bad spells. Regardless, I am just as angry as you at the opportunity we missed in the Scottish Cup that year - however, I hold the players responsible, not Collins.

No matter how strong your feelings are, wait until the end of the season before raising your grips (or leaving) - no matter how bad things apparently were for the players, it wasn't reflected in their performances before the revolt. If it was indeed the revolt that was responsible for their bad performances afterwards, it just further reinforces how ridiculously misguided it was.


I'm unaware of his "successes" there was only one, right, the League Cup win?

This kind of thing always reveals a lot - your flippancy with regards to a trophy win for Hibs ('just one'), only stands to show that you have an unreasonable dislike of John Collins - which you have admitted in your last post is based on something we all know very little about. My admiration for him is based on things that are clear for everyone to see - the successes that I was referring to, and indeed I mentioned in my very first post on this thread. Trophy win, great win ratio, great home record, wins home and away against Old Firm, wins home and away against Hearts, lots of goals scored, 6-1 away win at Motherwell.

If you're taking his 14 months as a whole - as you say you are - a trophy win alone would override everything else. But there was more to his tenure than that. Your continued attempts to make out that his failings as a man manager somehow outweigh the winning of a national cup final 5-1, is utterly perplexing.

I would also like to re-iterate again that I do not believe that he's the man for us right now. I am only evaluating his time here before, which can only be viewed as a success.

[500miles]

Football managers have to be all things to all men these days. They can't JUST be a great coach or man-manager, they have to be a tactician, have an eye for a player. They may excel in one aspect, but they cannot be so weak in another that it undermines the rest.

Collins' man management was shocking, and his signings weren't great. However, I think if he was with the players, he would have been able to get more out of his signings in a dressing room with an atmosphere conducive to developing talent.

[jacomo]

This thread really is unbelievable.

There's a constant Hibs.net mantra about the club neglecting the thing that really matters... the team on the park.

JC provides attractive, winning football on the park, and people pile in to slag off this and that.

For the record, I'd take him back in any capacity, thanks. I watched his team a lot when he was in charge, and I liked what I saw. Thrilling like Mowbray's side, but less of a soft underbelly.

[Kato]

I spend a lot of time spelling out exactly what my argument is, so I really shouldn't have to point out what it is not - at no time have I ever said that Collins is a great man manager, indeed I have acknowledged that he is deficient in that area. My argument is that it doesn't matter what it's like when you're successful on the park.

You're right that neither one of us knows the whole story of the revolt, which just makes you taking such a harsh view of Collins because of it even more puzzling. But from what little we do know, players complaining about the management style after winning (what was in some cases their only one) a trophy and a medal as a result of them, is at best unreasonable, and at worst, just plain crazy.

I also didn't claim that Clough was a bad man manager, but you referenced him as being a great man manager, and he punched one of his players in the face - and you criticize Collins for his style. It doesn't really add up.

As for the performances after the revolt, I did say that it could have been that which was responsible - however, after winning 6 and drawing the other 3 of our first 9 league games the following season, we then had one win in the next 9. There was no revolt then - teams at the level Hibs were then quite often went through good spells and bad spells. Regardless, I am just as angry as you at the opportunity we missed in the Scottish Cup that year - however, I hold the players responsible, not Collins.

No matter how strong your feelings are, wait until the end of the season before raising your grips (or leaving) - no matter how bad things apparently were for the players, it wasn't reflected in their performances before the revolt. If it was indeed the revolt that was responsible for their bad performances afterwards, it just further reinforces how ridiculously misguided it was.



This kind of thing always reveals a lot - your flippancy with regards to a trophy win for Hibs ('just one'), only stands to show that you have an unreasonable dislike of John Collins - which you have admitted in your last post is based on something we all know very little about. My admiration for him is based on things that are clear for everyone to see - the successes that I was referring to, and indeed I mentioned in my very first post on this thread. Trophy win, great win ratio, great home record, wins home and away against Old Firm, wins home and away against Hearts, lots of goals scored, 6-1 away win at Motherwell.

If you're taking his 14 months as a whole - as you say you are - a trophy win alone would override everything else. But there was more to his tenure than that. Your continued attempts to make out that his failings as a man manager somehow outweigh the winning of a national cup final 5-1, is utterly perplexing.

I would also like to re-iterate again that I do not believe that he's the man for us right now. I am only evaluating his time here before, which can only be viewed as a success.

Just pointing out he had one success.

I neither like nor dislike John Collins as I've never met him other in passing.

He seems like a nice guy and was a great player for Hibs and I've no doubt he wishes Hibs well.

Putting aside all the tactics/man manager stuff for a secnd, I just don't want him back as manager of our club especially at this time when we haev to get the appointment right. He was willing to walk out last time with zero warning to anyone, whose to say he wouldn't do the same again.

PS- Clough punching that guy wasn't his style, that was one incident. It doesn't mark out his style as a man manager nor does do him any favours. I really don't know why you think that is a water-mark for his career nor do I understand why Collins should be held up as great example of a manager because he won a Cup. Look at each of their careers as a whole to see hwo they shape up.

[0762]

Not the answer for me. Collins inherited a good team, and pee'd them off pretty quickly (hence player revolt - there was no revolt under Mowbray). He brought in a series of dross players and left the club in the lurch the day after we opened a training centre. I never subscribe to the he didn't get money to spend. he got more than most as we paid money to get O'Brien/Makalamby where not up to the SPL. Add to that Kerr, Gathuessi, Joneleit, and Noubissie ........Oh dear! Not sure about his record in Belgium but told from the dressing room at Livingston at the time that he managed to pee off the players there as well in his DoF role. In summary a good coach who plays the game the right way but no Manager or DoF. I'd pass on this one - we need someone to build a team.

[Kato]

This thread really is unbelievable.

There's a constant Hibs.net mantra about the club neglecting the thing that really matters... the team on the park.

JC provides attractive, winning football on the park, and people pile in to slag off this and that.

For the record, I'd take him back in any capacity, thanks. I watched his team a lot when he was in charge, and I liked what I saw. Thrilling like Mowbray's side, but less of a soft underbelly.

Did you enjoy every game?

[Barman Stanton]

Mourinho knows what he wants out on the park but has a back room staff to instruct him/the players on how to put it into practice.

I never gave you any "Mowbray's team nonsense" and don't buy into that idea. We won the Cup because Collins improved various aspects of the playing side and did it very well. Fact remains he didn't handle that group of players very well the whole time he had them so his man management skills come into question, no? However brilliant he was for the first few months it soon went into decline and don't forget it was he who left and didn't have the balls to stick around.

I've always wondered why he felt he should be allowed to spend £5M. A young manager usually comes with a few mates who are willing to play for him, and he had four years out of the game to build up that network yet we ended up with some very indifferent players. I wouln't give any rookie £5M to spend until he had proved himself in the transfer market. Collins never did prove himself there and I'm still glad we didn't give him what he wanted.

If I remember rightly the players he wanted o sign included Naysmith and Robson, who have since proven would have been excellent signings. As he wasn't given any kind of a decent budget he ended up with poor players.

[CropleyWasGod]

If I remember rightly the players he wanted o sign included Naysmith and Robson, who have since proven would have been excellent signings. As he wasn't given any kind of a decent budget he ended up with poor players.

That's not how I remember it. He was given an excellent budget, he just didn't spend it very well.

[Kato]

If I remember rightly the players he wanted o sign included Naysmith and Robson, who have since proven would have been excellent signings. As he wasn't given any kind of a decent budget he ended up with poor players.

He paid half a mil for Liam O'Brien.

[nribs]

If I remember rightly the players he wanted o sign included Naysmith and Robson, who have since proven would have been excellent signings. As he wasn't given any kind of a decent budget he ended up with poor players.

Naysmith went to the wedgie cheats for about £500k and I have no idea what wages he would have been on. Hibs wouldn't pay that really would they?

[nribs]

Naysmith went to the wedgie cheats for about £500k and I have no idea what wages he would have been on. Hibs wouldn't pay that really would they?

Actually wiki says Naismith went for £1.9m ?

[Peevemor]

He paid half a mil for Liam O'Brien.

Crikey, I don't remember him at all - he must have been even more anonymous than Alan! :greengrin

[Barman Stanton]

That's not how I remember it. He was given an excellent budget, he just didn't spend it very well.

Can't imagine Kerr, Curier, maka or Donaldson would have been on huge wages? O'Brien probably was in fairness. Don't think he spent anything on transfer fees? Happy to be proven wrong though.

[Barman Stanton]

He paid half a mil for Liam O'Brien.

Assume you mean Alan? And half a mil? Not what I remember.

[Kato]

Crikey, I don't remember him at all - he must have been even more anonymous than Alan! :greengrin

There you go, he was memorable I got him mixed up with someone!! Wish i could forget him completely actually.

[Weststandwanab]

Assume you mean Alan? And half a mil? Not what I remember.

Baht ?

[Kato]

Assume you mean Alan? And half a mil? Not what I remember.

AYe, maybe I'm wrong.

He still had a budget though probably far more than Mowbray, and did nothing like as well with the money allowed him.

[Peevemor]

Can't imagine Kerr, Curier, maka or Donaldson would have been on huge wages? O'Brien probably was in fairness. Don't think he spent anything on transfer fees? Happy to be proven wrong though.

I heard that Maka was one of our top earners - might be pish though. :dunno:

[TowerHibs]

He paid half a mil for Liam O'Brien.

Alan O'Brien.........small error like the rest of your posts on this thread. Never mind

[Barman Stanton]

AYe, maybe I'm wrong.

He still had a budget though probably far more than Mowbray, and did nothing like as well with the money allowed him.

I don't disagree with that mate, Mowbray seemed to have far more contacts. One of the reasons I would love Mowbray back.

[Barman Stanton]

I heard that Maka was one of our top earners - might be pish though. :dunno:

I just assumed not as he had never played a first team game before he signed. Crazy decision if so.

[Kato]

This kind of thing always reveals a lot - your flippancy with regards to a trophy win for Hibs ('just one'), only stands to show that you have an unreasonable dislike of John Collins - which you have admitted in your last post is based on something we all know very little about.



BTW on looking at that again I resent that and your argument falls down by trying to make it personal about me.
I already stated I admired aspects of Collins tenure way way back, I tried to get you to look at the whole his spell rather than just League Cup coloured specs you were using the start (not unreasonable) and I get that kind of waffle back.

I was being flippant about your statement of "successes", not Collins cup win.

What were his other successes did he have while he was here exactly?

If his managerial career had come in reverse, indifferent start, weird middle and successful ending then I'd be champing at the bit to have him back but he chose to walk out as downward spiral was kicking in, no one forced him, the fans were patient and still onside with him, he may not have had the budget he wanted but very few managers do.

He chose to leave.

[Kato]

Alan O'Brien.........small error like the rest of your posts on this thread. Never mind

Cheers and thanks

[97hills]

I think it's quite widely known that Collins won't touch Hibs whilst Petrie is still involved. All the more reason for Petrie OUT!

However one thing which I don't think is mentioned often enough with JC is that he's is potentially a magnificent manager. There's so many good (and bad) points from the past which have been raised on this forum. Most importantly though, if he was a success, I could imagine JC being the Hibs manager for a very long time. We have the same problems with players and managers - if they are successful, they will move on to bigger things. If they are not very good, they will be sacked/released. JC is set up for life and is pretty much the only candidate that I could see staying with us for a long term project, even if he's being scouted by bigger clubs. I would love to see what he could do with complete control of a club from top to bottom. Given time, I think George Street stories would certainly become a thing of the past!

[Smartie]

I don't disagree with that mate, Mowbray seemed to have far more contacts. One of the reasons I would love Mowbray back.

Was it Mowbray who had the contacts though? I honestly don't know, but would John Park have had a role to play in bringing in Boozy, Murphy, Jones, Sheils etc?

[Barman Stanton]

Was it Mowbray who had the contacts though? I honestly don't know, but would John Park have had a role to play in bringing in Boozy, Murphy, Jones, Sheils etc?

Was John Park not still there under JC though? If so the standard of signings wouldn't have changed if Park was finding them.

[matty_f]

Having had a think about it for a bit longer, I wouldn't be against Collins coming back to Hibs as manager. His signings were abysmal, there were some real shockers in there but if you look at what's come out in the time since Collins left about the lack of a coherent and effective scouting network at the club then can he really have this held against him. No manager of a any club of note scouts and identifies all their signings themselves, they need people to do the work for them. Collins signings were by and large as a result of having players offered to him by agents and/or coming on trial at the club.

The cup final was immense, one of the absolute highlights of my Hibs supporting lifetime. Given a clean slate and not having to deal with a post-Mowbray hang-over (by that I mean having to live up to the man-management style that Mowbray had and the affection that the players had for him), we might find that this is the ideal time for him to come to the club.

He has a philosophy for football that is exactly in line with how the Academy plays and what many of us see as the type of football a Hibs side should be playing. He has high standards and if he can replicate that across the board then why not give him another go?

[weonlywon6-2]

As much i loved winning the cup under colins i cant think for the life of me why we would want colli s back,put simply,what has he achieved in the last 7 years?
He will always be a hero but we need to leave it at that and move on

[portohibee]

No thanks, the thought of Alan O'Brian type players send shivers, thanks for the memories though john


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[loanheadhibby]

He won't get the Celtic assistant job. Scott Brown told the Celtic chieftans he was a cock.

Oh jeez the irony! I suppose it takes one to know one.

[The Falcon]

Petrie should never have gave in to the players that revolted. They should have been told to do one. It's that type of player that has been responsible for getting us into the mess we're in. .

How do you work out the Petrie "gave in to the players"?
Rob Jones issued a public apology and Collins stayed on saying that he had been fully supported?

[rcarter1]

Having had a think about it for a bit longer, I wouldn't be against Collins coming back to Hibs as manager. His signings were abysmal, there were some real shockers in there but if you look at what's come out in the time since Collins left about the lack of a coherent and effective scouting network at the club then can he really have this held against him. No manager of a any club of note scouts and identifies all their signings themselves, they need people to do the work for them. Collins signings were by and large as a result of having players offered to him by agents and/or coming on trial at the club.

The cup final was immense, one of the absolute highlights of my Hibs supporting lifetime. Given a clean slate and not having to deal with a post-Mowbray hang-over (by that I mean having to live up to the man-management style that Mowbray had and the affection that the players had for him), we might find that this is the ideal time for him to come to the club.

He has a philosophy for football that is exactly in line with how the Academy plays and what many of us see as the type of football a Hibs side should be playing. He has high standards and if he can replicate that across the board then why not give him another go?

Don't think he knows how to deal with people. I.e never a manager in a million years.

[jacomo]

Did you enjoy every game?

I enjoyed a higher proportion of games then than I do now.

[craigmounthibby]

He'll be at Celtic in some capacity IMO.

JC he may have unfinished business, but he also has a lack of man-management skills, a poor eye for a player and came to Hibs with a wonderful team already in place.

He got lucky. He did very well with the luck that came his way, but he got lucky.

He did however give me one of the greatest days I have ever had as a Hibbie, and he was cool as ****. So for that I will be eternally greatful.
:top marks

One of the best posts I have seen.

There's a reason why people have fond memories of him, and to an extent, rightly so. But the suggestion of him being brought back as manager is quite scary. It would be an absolutely shocking decision.

[Captain Trips]

I am up for seeing what JC can do for us with basically a blank canvas.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am up for seeing what JC can do for us with basically a blank canvas.

When he had the basis of a very good side, he supplemented it with Brian Kerr and Alan O'Brien. Two of the worst midfielders i ever saw till this season.

Throw in a juggler for a keeper and a right back i Gatheussi that was better at kung foo than football, then you wont be surprised i disagree. :wink:

I fear we'd be relegated if he had a blank canvas.

[Captain Trips]

When he had the basis of a very good side, he supplemented it with Brian Kerr and Alan O'Brien. Two of the worst midfielders i ever saw till this season.

Throw in a juggler for a keeper and a right back i Gatheussi that was better at kung foo than football, then you wont be surprised i disagree. :wink:

I fear we'd be relegated if he had a blank canvas.

I am of the thinking that he came in and had to replace some fantastic players something he was never going to do, I do agree the ones he brought in were not very good. Any new manager is hope my basis is just that. 7 yrs on he has learned and is better for it.

[hibsbollah]

The poll I did the other day 120 of us were for him coming back, 90 against.

[Peevemor]

I am up for seeing what JC can do for us with basically a blank canvas.

:dunno:

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/ingall_011812_620px.jpg

[Captain Trips]

:dunno:

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/ingall_011812_620px.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/11/17/article-1228761-001A7007000004B0-953_468x375.jpg

[Peevemor]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/11/17/article-1228761-001A7007000004B0-953_468x375.jpg

It was a joke you know.

[easty]

It was a joke you know.

I laughed.

[blackpoolhibs]

:dunno:

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/ingall_011812_620px.jpg

:faf::faf::top marks

[Dave-O]

I laughed.

As did I............:top marks

[erskine-hibby]

:dunno:

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/ingall_011812_620px.jpg

Lol!

[Captain Trips]

:dunno:

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/ingall_011812_620px.jpg

:greengrin You know that was funny I just wondered though where you may have got that idea from :wink:

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?284898-Petrie-Out-Butcher-Out&p=4041307&viewfull=1#post4041307

[Peevemor]

:greengrin You know that was funny I just wondered though where you may have got that idea from :wink:

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?284898-Petrie-Out-Butcher-Out&p=4041307&viewfull=1#post4041307

Very good! But I honestly didn't see that.

[matty_f]

Very good! But I honestly didn't see that.

Great minds and all that... :wink:

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Anyone got a copy of that spoof commentary of the penalty Collins scored against Brazil? :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

Great minds and all that... :wink:

Now now matty come on he isn't that good yet.

[brog]

I have mixed feelings re JC but putting the blame on the signings of AOB & Kerr down to him is wrong. They both played under Tommy Craig at Newcastle & both players were his signings. We can blame JC for accepting Craig's advice but this was his first managerial role & it was reasonable for him to trust the experienced man's judgment.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I have mixed feelings re JC but putting the blame on the signings of AOB & Kerr down to him is wrong. They both played under Tommy Craig at Newcastle & both players were his signings. We can blame JC for accepting Craig's advice but this was his first managerial role & it was reasonable for him to trust the experienced man's judgment.

Good point, and there has or never will be a manager that doesn't sign a few duds.

[Peevemor]

Good point, and there has or never will be a manager that doesn't sign a few duds.

True, but JC had a 100% record at Hibs.

[nribs]

True, but JC had a 100% record at Hibs.

Morais is still only 28 and a free agent :)

[Hibernian Verse]

Morais is still only 28 and a free agent :)

We could do worse than him in the championship.

[Unseen work]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Brian Kerr (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Brian_Kerr_(footballer))

Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)

Free



Clayton Donaldson (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Clayton_Donaldson)

York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/York_City_F.C.)

Free



Alan O'Brien (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alan_O%27Brien)

Newcastle (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.)

£200,000



Yves Makabu-Makalambay (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Yves_Makabu-Makalambay)

Chelsea (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Chelsea_F.C.)

£100,000



Thierry Gathuessi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thierry_Gathuessi)

Sète (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_S%C3%A8te)

Free



Filipe Morais (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Filipe_Morais)

Millwall (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Millwall_F.C.)

Free



Mickaël Antoine-Curier (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Micka%C3%ABl_Antoine-Curier)

Haugesund (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/F.K._Haugesund)

Nomial Fee



Patrick Noubissie (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Patrick_Noubissie)

Swindon Town (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Swindon_Town_F.C.)

Free



Ian Murray (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ian_Murray_(footballer))

Norwich City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Norwich_City_F.C.)

Free



John Rankin (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/John_Rankin_(footballer))

Inverness CT (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C.)

£110,000



Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colin_Nish)

Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)

£100,000



Abderraouf Zarabi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Abderraouf_Zarabi)

Gueugnon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_Gueugnon)

Undisclosed fee



Martin Canning (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Martin_Canning)
Torben joneilt

All singed in the collins/mixu season. bear in mind think murray down was mixu
majority are terrible though

[Bronson]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Brian Kerr (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Brian_Kerr_(footballer))
Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
Free


Clayton Donaldson (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Clayton_Donaldson)
York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/York_City_F.C.)
Free


Alan O'Brien (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alan_O%27Brien)
Newcastle (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.)
£200,000


Yves Makabu-Makalambay (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Yves_Makabu-Makalambay)
Chelsea (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Chelsea_F.C.)
£100,000


Thierry Gathuessi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thierry_Gathuessi)
Sète (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_S%C3%A8te)
Free


Filipe Morais (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Filipe_Morais)
Millwall (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Millwall_F.C.)
Free


Mickaël Antoine-Curier (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Micka%C3%ABl_Antoine-Curier)
Haugesund (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/F.K._Haugesund)
Nomial Fee


Patrick Noubissie (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Patrick_Noubissie)
Swindon Town (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Swindon_Town_F.C.)
Free


Ian Murray (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ian_Murray_(footballer))
Norwich City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Norwich_City_F.C.)
Free


John Rankin (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/John_Rankin_(footballer))
Inverness CT (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C.)
£110,000


Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colin_Nish)
Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)
£100,000


Abderraouf Zarabi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Abderraouf_Zarabi)
Gueugnon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_Gueugnon)
Undisclosed fee


Martin Canning (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Martin_Canning)
Torben joneilt

All singed in the collins/mixu season. bear in mind think murray down was mixu
majority are terrible though




Christ there's some belters in there, some truly horrific signings.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't be against a JC return.

[paul_hfc3]

After some thought tonight I've changed my mind. I don't think having John Collins would be a good move for Hibs. His people management is awful. His transfer record is very poor. Lets not forget if he was appointed again he might play the card of wanting to sign loads of players who were going to cost the club a lot of money for a club like Hibs. Hes tactically aware I'll give him that, but not for me in these times at the club.

[Stevie Reid]

Just pointing out he had one success.

I neither like nor dislike John Collins as I've never met him other in passing.

He seems like a nice guy and was a great player for Hibs and I've no doubt he wishes Hibs well.

Putting aside all the tactics/man manager stuff for a secnd, I just don't want him back as manager of our club especially at this time when we haev to get the appointment right. He was willing to walk out last time with zero warning to anyone, whose to say he wouldn't do the same again.

PS- Clough punching that guy wasn't his style, that was one incident. It doesn't mark out his style as a man manager nor does do him any favours. I really don't know why you think that is a water-mark for his career nor do I understand why Collins should be held up as great example of a manager because he won a Cup. Look at each of their careers as a whole to see hwo they shape up.

Fair enough, I've said that I wouldn't necessarily want him back either. I just think you're not giving him enough praise for what he did with us - or more accurately criticising him too much for an incident we know little about.

Btw - I was in no way comparing JC and Clough as managers, I only mentioned the face punching incident as you'd mentioned how good a man manager he was, yet criticised Collins' style though he did nothing as severe as that. That was all. Brian Clough achieved some incredible things at Derby and Forest, in particular. Collins did something very good with Hibs. They're worlds apart in managerial terms.

[Stevie Reid]

BTW on looking at that again I resent that and your argument falls down by trying to make it personal about me.
I already stated I admired aspects of Collins tenure way way back, I tried to get you to look at the whole his spell rather than just League Cup coloured specs you were using the start (not unreasonable) and I get that kind of waffle back.

I was being flippant about your statement of "successes", not Collins cup win.

What were his other successes did he have while he was here exactly?

If his managerial career had come in reverse, indifferent start, weird middle and successful ending then I'd be champing at the bit to have him back but he chose to walk out as downward spiral was kicking in, no one forced him, the fans were patient and still onside with him, he may not have had the budget he wanted but very few managers do.

He chose to leave.

I'm not making anything personal at all. Just having an argument.

I have looked at Collins whole spell, acknowledging his faults and highlighting his successes. It's all there, I take a very objective view when analysing all things Hibs. I've made my feelings on JC abundantly clear - and spelt out what I feel his successes were - over many posts.

And - once again - I'm not saying I want him back.

[Cropley10]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Fenlon signed some shockers, so did Calderwood.

Just think for a moment, did Hibs 'just' allow a complete novice to go and sign these players, or did the Board/RP get involved.

Collins was a novice and had no experience in signing players, no wonder he got it wrong.

Pat Fenlon, by contrast, got through a raft of players and was given more time and more money.

What Collins had to put up with was selling David Murphy and there being absolutely no replacement.

[Springbank]

Guy wins trophy 5-1 for Hibs

Hibs fans don't want him back

Really?

[Up The Bracket]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Brian Kerr (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Brian_Kerr_(footballer))
Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
Free


Clayton Donaldson (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Clayton_Donaldson)
York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/York_City_F.C.)
Free


Alan O'Brien (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alan_O%27Brien)
Newcastle (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.)
£200,000


Yves Makabu-Makalambay (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Yves_Makabu-Makalambay)
Chelsea (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Chelsea_F.C.)
£100,000


Thierry Gathuessi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thierry_Gathuessi)
Sète (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_S%C3%A8te)
Free


Filipe Morais (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Filipe_Morais)
Millwall (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Millwall_F.C.)
Free


Mickaël Antoine-Curier (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Micka%C3%ABl_Antoine-Curier)
Haugesund (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/F.K._Haugesund)
Nomial Fee


Patrick Noubissie (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Patrick_Noubissie)
Swindon Town (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Swindon_Town_F.C.)
Free


Ian Murray (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ian_Murray_(footballer))
Norwich City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Norwich_City_F.C.)
Free


John Rankin (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/John_Rankin_(footballer))
Inverness CT (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C.)
£110,000


Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colin_Nish)
Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)
£100,000


Abderraouf Zarabi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Abderraouf_Zarabi)
Gueugnon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_Gueugnon)
Undisclosed fee


Martin Canning (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Martin_Canning)
Torben joneilt

All singed in the collins/mixu season. bear in mind think murray down was mixu
majority are terrible though




The bottom 5 were Mixu signings as he took over before the January window, but yes, I agree completely, some fans have very short memories, Collins got us playing good football but his signings were truly horrific and it'd be a disastrous appointment IMO.

Ian Murray's the only man that jumps out at me.

He took charge of Dumbarton in November 2012 when they had 5 points and finished with 43 and beat every single team in the league.

The following season he built on that success, with Dumbarton finishing just outside the play-off's and at one point it seemed like they may have snuck in also achieving their highest league position in a generation.

On top of that he reached the Scottish Cup Quarter Final, which is Dumbarton's best run in decades.

He knows the club inside out, knows what the fans expect, and he'd also be absolutely determined to beat Hearts as he hates them just as much as every Hibs fan on this forum.

Some may say he's inexperienced and a gamble, possibly, but he is clearly proven at Championship level. In the position we're in at the moment, there are no affordable options that aren't considered as a gamble.

I'll be dissappointed if Ian Murray isn't the Hibs manager by the time we start the season, no brainer IMO.

[Kato]

I'm not making anything personal at all. Just having an argument.

I have looked at Collins whole spell, acknowledging his faults and highlighting his successes. It's all there, I take a very objective view when analysing all things Hibs. I've made my feelings on JC abundantly clear - and spelt out what I feel his successes were - over many posts.

And - once again - I'm not saying I want him back.

Aye, sorry man. It was an argument. My posts lacked praise for Collins as I was trying to balance yours.

I wish it had worked out for JC but it's water under the bridge now. I don't think we should look back.

[Green Cabbage 7]

I would take him, bringing in a continental approach the way forward for me, also maybe he would get backed with his signings this time as he had to scrape the barrel, which all the rest have had to do since, we can see this as every transfer window we have waited until the end of the windows, and the quote from Leanne recently suggests there are more options earlier, as she put it a bigger pool of players, so obviously the guff we have been fed before that better players are available later in the window has been crap!

[Stevie Reid]

Aye, sorry man. It was an argument. My posts lacked praise for Collins as I was trying to balance yours.

I wish it had worked out for JC but it's water under the bridge now. I don't think we should look back.

Fair enough mate, let's leave it there then. And there's really no need to apologise - we're both passionate Hibbies, and I enjoyed debating the issue with you.

[JJP]

Can't see this one happening. He left because Petrie did not share him ambition for the club. Petrie is still here.

[Just_Jimmy]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Brian Kerr (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Brian_Kerr_(footballer))
Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
Free


Clayton Donaldson (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Clayton_Donaldson)
York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/York_City_F.C.)
Free


Alan O'Brien (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alan_O%27Brien)
Newcastle (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.)
£200,000


Yves Makabu-Makalambay (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Yves_Makabu-Makalambay)
Chelsea (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Chelsea_F.C.)
£100,000


Thierry Gathuessi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thierry_Gathuessi)
Sète (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_S%C3%A8te)
Free


Filipe Morais (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Filipe_Morais)
Millwall (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Millwall_F.C.)
Free


Mickaël Antoine-Curier (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Micka%C3%ABl_Antoine-Curier)
Haugesund (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/F.K._Haugesund)
Nomial Fee


Patrick Noubissie (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Patrick_Noubissie)
Swindon Town (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Swindon_Town_F.C.)
Free


Ian Murray (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ian_Murray_(footballer))
Norwich City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Norwich_City_F.C.)
Free


John Rankin (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/John_Rankin_(footballer))
Inverness CT (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C.)
£110,000


Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colin_Nish)
Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)
£100,000


Abderraouf Zarabi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Abderraouf_Zarabi)
Gueugnon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_Gueugnon)
Undisclosed fee


Martin Canning (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Martin_Canning)
Torben joneilt

All singed in the collins/mixu season. bear in mind think murray down was mixu
majority are terrible though




Joneilt was on loan.
Bottom 5 were signed by Mixu

MA-C has just played as part of a side that beat us over two legs to replace us in the SPL.
Kerr was welcomed at the time by most fans on this site.
Many wanted us to pay a fee to get Donaldson early, rather than wait til the summer. He still scores every weekend in England.
O'Brien and Maka came from Premiership sides - many said we should target that level.
The rest were frees.

Now they were all poor at Hibs in different ways, but many were looked at as potentially decent, many were clearly second, third even fourth choice targets. Who's fault is that?

We sold Murphy for £2mill (i think). JC wanted Hammill to replace him. He got no one. Hammill went to Motherwell and played really well. Hibernian still don't have a left back worthy of the position or that could polish David Murphy's boots.

Saying that I don't want Collin's back. He had many flaws, not just his eye for a player.

[Unseen work]

Joneilt was on loan.
Bottom 5 were signed by Mixu

MA-C has just played as part of a side that beat us over two legs to replace us in the SPL.
Kerr was welcomed at the time by most fans on this site.
Many wanted us to pay a fee to get Donaldson early, rather than wait til the summer. He still scores every weekend in England.
O'Brien and Maka came from Premiership sides - many said we should target that level.
The rest were frees.

Now they were all poor at Hibs in different ways, but many were looked at as potentially decent, many were clearly second, third even fourth choice targets. Who's fault is that?

We sold Murphy for £2mill (i think). JC wanted Hammill to replace him. He got no one. Hammill went to Motherwell and played really well. Hibernian still don't have a left back worthy of the position or that could polish David Murphy's boots.

Saying that I don't want Collin's back. He had many flaws, not just his eye for a player.

yes like i said from murray down was mixu. If you want to sign players that have played for teams that have bet us then that will be a long list of terrible players.
Yes kerr, o'brien. donaldson and maka were players at the time we were optimistic about, they never played well or anywhere near the standard we require, and ultimatley as a manager it is your job and responsibility to get that out of them.

[Ronniekirk]

Can't see this one happening. He left because Petrie did not share him ambition for the club. Petrie is still here.

Collins could afford to Buy Petrie out if he wanted to I would imagine but that then becomes a different proposition Collins made it velar he couldn't operate in the basement budget of the player Marley and his dig kings confirmed this Unless he was part of a consortium injecting new cash he would need to be working on probably smaller budget than he had then so on that basis he would rule himself out I think

[Just_Jimmy]

yes like i said from murray down was mixu. If you want to sign players that have played for teams that have bet us then that will be a long list of terrible players.
Yes kerr, o'brien. donaldson and maka were players at the time we were optimistic about, they never played well or anywhere near the standard we require, and ultimatley as a manager it is your job and responsibility to get that out of them.

But the point is you can't beat the guy with the fact he signed players who a) we all, or most, thought were going to odd something or b) players who were 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice.

These players didn't live up to what they did before or what some have done since. Why?

It's hardly a new theme with Hibs players so why is that Collins fault?

Why didn't he get first choice signings? Who is to blame for that? Again, that is hardly a new thing is it?

[Broken Gnome]

But the point is you can't beat the guy with the fact he signed players who a) we all, or most, thought were going to odd something or b) players who were 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice.

These players didn't live up to what they did before or what some have done since. Why?

It's hardly a new theme with Hibs players so why is that Collins fault?

Why didn't he get first choice signings? Who is to blame for that? Again, that is hardly a new thing is it?

We were never ever going to be able to sign some of the players he wanted.

[Just_Jimmy]

We were never ever going to be able to sign some of the players he wanted.

I agree. The fact remains though, is he the first or last Hibs manager to encounter that problem? If not, why not?

Either someone stops them, or someone doesn't give them a proper remit when they are hired.

My point on Hammell is valid though. We failed to get him despite him being achieveble and we still have no recongnised left back worth of the name.

[J-C]

We were never ever going to be able to sign some of the players he wanted.

We got a lot of money for certain players and JC wanted to sign players of similar quality, nothing wrong in trying to take the club forward and we've been doing it on the cheap ever since.

[Scouse Hibee]

Would rather have James Collins back!

[Broken Gnome]

We got a lot of money for certain players and JC wanted to sign players of similar quality, nothing wrong in trying to take the club forward and we've been doing it on the cheap ever since.

Steven Naismith and Barry Robson would not have batted an eyelid at Hibs. Did we not even bid 850k for Naismith?

Hammell and Jamie Smith were achievable. I can't recall the fifth player on the list.

[Paloschi]

Having JC back would be the right thing for Hibs if Petrie goes. I can't see him taking the job otherwise.

I would like to see a management team of John Collins, Ian Murray and Boozy.

IMO we need someone that knows the club. McCall I have a bad feeling against. Could be another TB?

Collins has the drive, passion, ambition and leadership we need just now. My only issue with him is his signings the first time round. This was down to him not getting his first targets though. Will he be backed by LD? so many questions at the moment. The clock is ticking.

[SanFranHibs]

We were never ever going to be able to sign some of the players he wanted.

Easy to target players whose fee/wages were not going to be met by Petrie. Hell, I could do that !!!

Collins quit us, quit Charleroi, quit Livi as DoF. Not a great relationship builder with players and boardrooms, Petrie is still here and though his position vis a vis LD might not be clear he would still be someone that JC would have to deal with. Also, JC's budget might still be completely inadequate for his vision so what is the point of his return?

I do not think Hibs would thrive under JC's approach and do not think Collins would thrive with the restrictions placed upon his player acquisitions.

[Hibercelona]

Collins won't come back here as long as Farmer has ownership of the club.

[jacomo]

collins getting to sign a whole team would be terrifying



Brian Kerr (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Brian_Kerr_(footballer))

Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)

Free



Clayton Donaldson (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Clayton_Donaldson)

York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/York_City_F.C.)

Free



Alan O'Brien (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alan_O%27Brien)

Newcastle (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.)

£200,000



Yves Makabu-Makalambay (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Yves_Makabu-Makalambay)

Chelsea (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Chelsea_F.C.)

£100,000



Thierry Gathuessi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thierry_Gathuessi)

Sète (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_S%C3%A8te)

Free



Filipe Morais (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Filipe_Morais)

Millwall (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Millwall_F.C.)

Free



Mickaël Antoine-Curier (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Micka%C3%ABl_Antoine-Curier)

Haugesund (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/F.K._Haugesund)

Nomial Fee



Patrick Noubissie (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Patrick_Noubissie)

Swindon Town (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Swindon_Town_F.C.)

Free



Ian Murray (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ian_Murray_(footballer))

Norwich City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Norwich_City_F.C.)

Free



John Rankin (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/John_Rankin_(footballer))

Inverness CT (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C.)

£110,000



Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colin_Nish)

Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)

£100,000



Abderraouf Zarabi (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Abderraouf_Zarabi)

Gueugnon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/FC_Gueugnon)

Undisclosed fee



Martin Canning (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Martin_Canning)
Torben joneilt

All singed in the collins/mixu season. bear in mind think murray down was mixu
majority are terrible though




Murray, Rankin, Nish and Canning all Mixu/Petrie signings.

AOB and Kerr were gifts from Tommy Craig (thanks). Which leaves:

Big Maka - well, I liked him. :wink:

Clayton Donaldson - not a bad signing. Slow start but Mixu didn't fancy him and he moved on. Could have turned into an effective player for us.

Hong Kong Thierry - bombscare, but sheer unpredictability added to the fun sometimes. Young and raw, didn't work out for him. Fail.

Morais - JC probably liked him because he had good technique and probably lived well. All flash and no end product. Fail.

MAC - not the worst striker we've signed. No doubt a cheap option though and not really good enough.

Noubissie - really can't remember much about him. Didn't make an impression, wasn't missed when he went. Fail.

Overall then, not great. But it's not quite the scenario that "Collins signed a team full of the worst players to ever play for Hibs".

[TowerHibs]

Collins won't come back here as long as Farmer has ownership of the club.

why's that?? Genuine question as TF has shown that he does not get involved in the club so why would that be a factor???

[ballengeich]

Collins has the drive, passion, ambition and leadership we need just now.

No he doesn't. He's resigned from all three of his jobs in management. We need someone who'll stick around when things get difficult, not someone who has so much money from his playing days plus media work that he prefers an easy life.

[Paloschi]

Murray, Rankin, Nish and Canning all Mixu/Petrie signings.

AOB and Kerr were gifts from Tommy Craig (thanks). Which leaves:

Big Maka - well, I liked him. :wink:

Clayton Donaldson - not a bad signing. Slow start but Mixu didn't fancy him and he moved on. Could have turned into an effective player for us.

Hong Kong Thierry - bombscare, but sheer unpredictability added to the fun sometimes. Young and raw, didn't work out for him. Fail.

Morais - JC probably liked him because he had good technique and probably lived well. All flash and no end product. Fail.

MAC - not the worst striker we've signed. No doubt a cheap option though and not really good enough.

Noubissie - really can't remember much about him. Didn't make an impression, wasn't missed when he went. Fail.

Overall then, not great. But it's not quite the scenario that "Collins signed a team full of the worst players to ever play for Hibs".

Donaldson was a Mowbray signing. All was agreed before Collins was appointed.

Morais and MAC were not bad players and Noubissie looked OK in his few games for Hibs. JC was reliant on Tommy Craig for signing advice though as he had the experience and they both mucked it up overall TBH.

[Coco Bryce]

Collins won't come back here as long as Farmer has ownership of the club.

As I posted on another thread, hearing rumours about John Collins and a French consortium considering taking over the club :confused:

My source :tsk tsk:

[Paloschi]

No he doesn't. He's resigned from all three of his jobs in management. We need someone who'll stick around when things get difficult, not someone who has so much money from his playing days plus media work that he prefers an easy life.

Easy life is exactly what he was against in Football. The players disagreed. Collins wanted them to work harder, train harder and eat well to further the club and challenge the OF.

He quit at Hibs down to the simple fact that the players and the Chairman did not back him. As a manager you have nowhere to go.

I don't know what went on in Belgium and at Livingston but I feel he has the qualities that you disagree with above. I respected his decision to quit at the time.

[The_Horde]

Donaldson would've been good for us in time. He had a horrible time of it because expectations were sky high after GOC and Deeks and we also had the likes of Benji and Fletch.

[leggeto]

As I posted on another thread, hearing rumours about John Collins and a French consortium considering taking over the club :confused:

My source :tsk tsk:

Hmmm interesting Monaco millionaires

[ballengeich]

Easy life is exactly what he was against in Football. The players disagreed. Collins wanted them to work harder, train harder and eat well to further the club and challenge the OF.

He quit at Hibs down to the simple fact that the players and the Chairman did not back him. As a manager you have nowhere to go.

I don't know what went on in Belgium and at Livingston but I feel he has the qualities that you disagree with above. I respected his decision to quit at the time.

I've always been sceptical about the belief that the players' revolt was a simple objection to being asked to work harder. Players might have moaned about that, but I think they would have done what was being asked if they could have seen future benefits from the work so I believe there was something more to it. In any part of life, you're not a leader if people don't want to follow you and Collins failed there.

The support for Collins largely rests on the League Cup win. It was a great day. However, the results on the way to it were wins over Hearts, division 1 St Johnstone and Kilmarnock. I reckon that with the team Mowbray left, a lot of managers could have achieved these three results. After the win a good manager could have built and taken that team into Europe either through its league placing or by beating relegation-bound Dunfermline in the Cup semi. Collins didn't achieve either of these so I look on his time with us as a wasted opportunity, both for the club and for the man himself.

While I think Collins had potential as a manager, he hasn't devoted himself to building a career and I doubt whether he will. I'm standing by my previous post, so we're just going to have to agree to differ about this.

[Glorious St Pat]

Would be delighted with a Collins appointment along with a dream team of Ian Murray and Boozy. Collins would be director of football type role with Murray manager. My opinion is that he does have the correct vision and footballing philosophy as long as the whole club bought into it - from boys, youths to first team - call it 'the Hibernian way' - with a mission statement visually prominent throughout the whole club.

Would also put Turnbull's "hibs class" quote on the inside of the shirts as a reminder to the players as to what the shirt means. Believe Celtic did something similar with a Jock Stein quote.

With proper backing and joined up scouting and training...it is an appointment that could work and excite the fans once again.

All three are Passionate Hibs minded individuals - another thing I want to see. Someone who 'gets it' and doesn't just talk a good game.

Erin go Bragh....onwards to victory.

[blackpoolhibs]

Collins resigns more than Kevin Keegan, we need someone who will build the club up from the bottom and i dont think he has the stomach :wink: for that, or indeed the ability but thats a different argument.

[Baker9]

Hmmm interesting Monaco millionaires

Like Sauzee and his buddies? Pure speculation and wishful thinking on my part. :not worth

[GloryGlory]

Hmmm interesting Monaco millionaires

David Rowland was/is a Monaco millionaire. :wink:

[leggeto]

David Rowland was/is a Monaco millionaire. :wink:

That shark, we should have an asbo against him

[leggeto]

Like Sauzee and his buddies? Pure speculation and wishful thinking on my part. :not worth

Collins, sauzee,pires,viera would be nice

[KeithTheHibby]

I could be wrong however under JC the following players were sold;

Thomson 2m
Brown 4m
Whittaker 2m
Murphy 2m
Sproule 0.5m

Basically 5 top players which brought in over 10m. Collins was given next to nothing to replace these players, it was no wonder he walked, I would have done the same. I don't think it was unreasonable for JC to aim big and try bring in a higher quality of player given the players sold under his feet.
I also don't think the players he brought in were any worse than some of the crap we have watched in the last few years and certainly wouldn't have had us relegated. It staggers me some of the crap spouted about the man on here.

Instaed of backing him and pushing on as a club we built the new east stand and paid off some debt. That worked out well 7 years later.

[Callum_62]

I wasnt for Collins initially, but the more I think about, the keener I get

We are primed and ready to be overhauled from top to bottom - a new direction, a new ethos

I liked Collins ideas on how professional we should be

He would end up with a squad full of his own players (so they should buy into his thinking......also scary as his dealings wernt good last time round).

Id be fairly OK if it turns out to be him - as long as hes allowed free reign to make us a modern, progressive club

[allezsauzee]

I could be wrong however under JC the following players were sold;

Thomson 2m
Brown 4m
Whittaker 2m
Murphy 2m
Sproule 0.5m

Basically 5 top players which brought in over 10m. Collins was given next to nothing to replace these players, it was no wonder he walked, I would have done the same. I don't think it was unreasonable for JC to aim big and try bring in a higher quality of player given the players sold under his feet.
I also don't think the players he brought in were any worse than some of the crap we have watched in the last few years and certainly wouldn't have had us relegated. It staggers me some of the crap spouted about the man on here.

Instaed of backing him and pushing on as a club we built the new east stand and paid off some debt. That worked out well 7 years later.

Spot on!

PS Nish was signed by Mixu

[jdships]

Collins won't come back here as long as Farmer has ownership of the club.

What evidence to prove that statement ?
JC had NO " man management" skills and lost the respect of the players nothing to do with STF
Ask any player who was at the club at that time :rolleyes:

JC would " bring nothing to the table " if he returned to ER :flag:

[jdships]

Collins resigns more than Kevin Keegan, we need someone who will build the club up from the bottom and i dont think he has the stomach :wink: for that, or indeed the ability but thats a different argument.


:agree::top marks

[Keith_M]

As I posted on another thread, hearing rumours about John Collins and a French consortium considering taking over the club :confused:

My source :tsk tsk:

OK, so that's us now the target of:



A Scottish Consortium
A joint US/Scottish Consortium
Abramovich
JC et Les Français

[Callum_62]

OK, so that's us now the target of:



A Scottish Consortium
A joint US/Scottish Consortium
Abramovich
JC et Les Français


Just wait till we punt Nelson.....the Abu Dhabi group will be all over us

[jacomo]

Just wait till we punt Nelson.....the Abu Dhabi group will be all over us

Surely it's the French who would be happiest at that turn of events? :wink:

[number9dream]

Hmmm interesting Monaco millionaires

Like wee Craig Whyte???

[leggeto]

Like wee Craig Whyte???

A wee hidey hole for tossers that place,with the sounds of it

[LeithBoozy]

I thought the FACT John boy could do 1,000 more press-ups than any player at the time, unnerved them. :wink: and he had the six-pack to prove it. :greengrin

[jacomo]

What evidence to prove that statement ?
JC had NO " man management" skills and lost the respect of the players nothing to do with STF
Ask any player who was at the club at that time :rolleyes:

JC would " bring nothing to the table " if he returned to ER :flag:

Respectfully, I would suggest that you have very little evidence for the above either - it's all your opinion, which of course you are entitled to.

I remember you saying that JC had little rapport with the youth players, but that wasn't the main focus of his job. The Hibs manager should certainly trust and understand what all the coaches are doing, but their main focus has to be the senior squad.

[Finbar]

With regards to Collins' signings, were they really any worse than any other hibs manager recently? And to his credit he didn't sign Colin Nish.

[Dave-O]

With regards to Collins' signings, were they really any worse than any other hibs manager recently? And to his credit he didn't sign Colin Nish.

No but a lot of his signings where. :greengrin

Seriously wouldn't mind seeing him and Ian Murray as a double act. :agree:

[sauzee_4]

To clear up what went on in Belguim, Collins took on a 6 month contract at Charleroi who were staring at relegation. Collins kept them up. His contract ran out and he didn't renew.

The reasons he gave were that his kids were at an important stage in their schooling and he didn't wish to uproot his family.

He took on a role as DOF at Livingston, employed Gareth Evans as manager, and Evans was sacked, against Collins wishes and despite Gareth doing well. If the DOF is allowed to hire a manager surely it is his remit to sack him, not the rest of the boards?

As someone else has said All the measurable ways of judging a manager show that Collins was a success as a manager. God help the next Hibs manager who wins a cup final 5-1

[AlbertK86]

To clear up what went on in Belguim, Collins took on a 6 month contract at Charleroi who were staring at relegation. Collins kept them up. His contract ran out and he didn't renew. The reasons he gave were that his kids were at an important stage in their schooling and he didn't wish to uproot his family. He took on a role as DOF at Livingston, employed Gareth Evans as manager, and Evans was sacked, against Collins wishes and despite Gareth doing well. If the DOF is allowed to hire a manager surely it is his remit to sack him, not the rest of the boards? As someone else has said All the measurable ways of judging a manager show that Collins was a success as a manager. God help the next Hibs manager who wins a cup final 5-1

Was Rod P's twin brother running the show at Livi ?

[Golden Bear]

To clear up what went on in Belguim, Collins took on a 6 month contract at Charleroi who were staring at relegation. Collins kept them up. His contract ran out and he didn't renew.

The reasons he gave were that his kids were at an important stage in their schooling and he didn't wish to uproot his family.

He took on a role as DOF at Livingston, employed Gareth Evans as manager, and Evans was sacked, against Collins wishes and despite Gareth doing well. If the DOF is allowed to hire a manager surely it is his remit to sack him, not the rest of the boards?

As someone else has said All the measurable ways of judging a manager show that Collins was a success as a manager. God help the next Hibs manager who wins a cup final 5-1

:agree:

The 2007 League Cup win will be etched in my Hibernian memory forever and for that I'm eternally grateful.

I can't see JC ever returning to ER but I live in hope.

[Eyrie]

If winning trophies is all that matters, let's bring back Miller. At least he was with us for the long haul and didn't quit at the first sign of trouble.

And one of the complaints about Butcher was his inability to man manage, so Collins won't be an improvement there.

[jdships]

Respectfully, I would suggest that you have very little evidence for the above either - it's all your opinion, which of course you are entitled to.

I remember you saying that JC had little rapport with the youth players, but that wasn't the main focus of his job. The Hibs manager should certainly trust and understand what all the coaches are doing, but their main focus has to be the senior squad.



I apologise for going against my promise not to comment on my relatives at Hibs but your post is suggesting I am not telling the truth
The Manager requires the respect of all his players and staff and has to return that respect for him to manage well - FACT
The relatives who were there at that time were under 21 players one of them asked JC twice for help on a personal football matter because he he could not get satisfaction from his immediate " boss" He was turned down on both occasions and a senior player ended up advising the lad
This is not "my opinion" it actually happened and there were other instances which it would not be correct to tell about on here , being personal to those players involved
Does that answer your question ? Please let me know :wink::greengrin
Also I would add I have met JC on many occasions socially at functions and he is a lovely man - it is a pleasure to be in his company .

Football management is no different to any other business mangement .The person in charge has to EARN the respect of the peopl under his control

[jdships]

If winning trophies is all that matters, let's bring back Miller. At least he was with us for the long haul and didn't quit at the first sign of trouble.

And one of the complaints about Butcher was his inability to man manage, so Collins won't be an improvement there.

:agree::thumbsup:

[hibsbollah]

To clear up what went on in Belguim, Collins took on a 6 month contract at Charleroi who were staring at relegation. Collins kept them up. His contract ran out and he didn't renew.

The reasons he gave were that his kids were at an important stage in their schooling and he didn't wish to uproot his family.

He took on a role as DOF at Livingston, employed Gareth Evans as manager, and Evans was sacked, against Collins wishes and despite Gareth doing well. If the DOF is allowed to hire a manager surely it is his remit to sack him, not the rest of the boards?

As someone else has said All the measurable ways of judging a manager show that Collins was a success as a manager. God help the next Hibs manager who wins a cup final 5-1

:agree:

[Golden Bear]

If winning trophies is all that matters, let's bring back Miller. At least he was with us for the long haul and didn't quit at the first sign of trouble.

And one of the complaints about Butcher was his inability to man manage, so Collins won't be an improvement there.

They say you learn from experience. (unless your name is TB)


Seriously, first time round the Hibs job probably came around too quickly for JC and both he and the Club would have benefited if he'd earned his spurs elsewhere. I've a feeling things could be different now but I doubt if we'll ever find out (sadly)