PDA

View Full Version : Wasted time planning for next season



Spike Mandela
10-06-2014, 11:12 PM
What about all the planning Butcher, Malpas and Marsella had done as regards players for next season?
Butcher said he liked to get players in early so I am sure many players had been lined up albeit relegation will have meant these deals would be getting reviewed no doubt.

Now all this planning is thrown out the window. These deals surely shelved whilst a new manager is sourced. This new guy then has to form a management team, assess what's left of the squad (mostly deadwood as Butcher and we fans already know) and then start scouting and signing players.

Have we thrown the baby out with the bath water?

jacomo
10-06-2014, 11:37 PM
Nope. He was the wrong man, appointed for the wrong reasons. His silence post relegation confirmed it... As did failure to offer his resignation.

He's left us in a right mess but we start tomorrow with a better chance of getting out of it.

Peevemor
10-06-2014, 11:55 PM
With regard to the OP, that was the main (only?) 'plus' in my mind when trying to decide whether I wanted Butcher to continue. We really need to hit the ground running come the start of the season.

I wonder if any of his identified targets may still sign for us? Also if someone else is already lined up, will he already have targets in mind?

HKhibby
11-06-2014, 03:31 AM
With regard to the OP, that was the main (only?) 'plus' in my mind when trying to decide whether I wanted Butcher to continue. We really need to hit the ground running come the start of the season.

I wonder if any of his identified targets may still sign for us? Also if someone else is already lined up, will he already have targets in mind?

well pre season training starts in 3 -4 weeks? So whoever this Leaane has in mind will need to move fast indeed to build some sort of team around whoever is lrft there. You have to ask one question though, why was Butcher allowed to empty the who team practically, then only 2 weeks later he is terminated! Yes everyone will say that was before Leaane Dempster came in, yes it was but only a week before..... I cant imagine there was not any sort of dialogue in sort of way with an incoming CE together with Petrie!

Twa Cairpets
11-06-2014, 04:36 AM
well pre season training starts in 3 -4 weeks? So whoever this Leaane has in mind will need to move fast indeed to build some sort of team around whoever is lrft there. You have to ask one question though, why was Butcher allowed to empty the who team practically, then only 2 weeks later he is terminated! Yes everyone will say that was before Leaane Dempster came in, yes it was but only a week before..... I cant imagine there was not any sort of dialogue in sort of way with an incoming CE together with Petrie!

'Whoever this Leaane"? Really? Dismissive mysogynism much?

HibeesLA
11-06-2014, 04:52 AM
well pre season training starts in 3 -4 weeks? So whoever this Leaane has in mind will need to move fast indeed to build some sort of team around whoever is lrft there. You have to ask one question though, why was Butcher allowed to empty the who team practically, then only 2 weeks later he is terminated! Yes everyone will say that was before Leaane Dempster came in, yes it was but only a week before..... I cant imagine there was not any sort of dialogue in sort of way with an incoming CE together with Petrie!

They were out of contract and left by not being offered a new one. Would you rather they were all offered 2 year deals and then have the manager sacked? That way any new manager wouldn't have funds to shape his team.
This way, a new manager can always reach back out to any out of contract players and bring them back in. However, based on te comments throughout the end of the season, I didn't think many people were rushing to want to keep any of them anyway.

The Leith Dutch
11-06-2014, 05:51 AM
What about all the planning Butcher, Malpas and Marsella had done as regards players for next season?
Butcher said he liked to get players in early so I am sure many players had been lined up albeit relegation will have meant these deals would be getting reviewed no doubt.

Now all this planning is thrown out the window. These deals surely shelved whilst a new manager is sourced. This new guy then has to form a management team, assess what's left of the squad (mostly deadwood as Butcher and we fans already know) and then start scouting and signing players.

Have we thrown the baby out with the bath water?

I think it's 50/50 - whoever we get in is going to have to move quickly in the transfer market which may affect his deals but we will at least be starting a season with a new manager for the first time since Yogi rather than someone coming in mid season.

Additionally if he knows his own mind and Leeann Dempster works with him in a decisive fashion then there's no reason, even with only 8 or so weeks left, that we can't make a better job of the transfer window than we usually make. It's not like we usually do a stellar job even with all the bits in place - I mean look at last year's attempts to get a striker in.....

I think the statement that we're looking to win the league and get out at the first time of asking is the key here.

If that's a genuine statement of intent then it has to be backed with money - and probably money we can't really afford - and if that's done then we maybe pay a bit more than we like but at least we get the players we want.

This being Hibs of course I would not be at all suprised by it being Kenny ******ing Shiels brought in late July along with a bunch of loanees from the Johnstone's Paint league in Englandshire......

LancsHibs
11-06-2014, 06:15 AM
Should have gone 2 weeks ago, being indecisive has now cost us 2 weeks of perpetration for this huge season for us ahead. A manager should now be in place as we are behind Rangers & Hearts who have already in place a management team and the basis of a settled squad.

Aldo
11-06-2014, 06:30 AM
Should have gone 2 weeks ago, being indecisive has now cost us 2 weeks of perpetration for this huge season for us ahead. A manager should now be in place as we are behind Rangers & Hearts who have already in place a management team and the basis of a settled squad.

I wonder though LH if Dempster has been putting the feelers out last week to see who is available or not as the case maybe??

I would agree though that the timing could of been better and that he should of gone pretty much the week we got relegated.

gorgie greens
11-06-2014, 06:33 AM
I wonder though LH if Dempster has been putting the feelers out last week to see who is available or not as the case maybe??

I would agree though that the timing could of been better and that he should of gone pretty much the week we got relegated.

Agree totally,think they must have someone ready to come in or he would have been sacked 2 weeks ago,and it takes a little bit of heat of Petrie (for a day then crank it up)

erskine-hibby
11-06-2014, 06:39 AM
Yes the club has yet again cocked up.
They should have either backed Butcher in his plans to clear out and redevelop the team, or have sacked him earlier, regardless whether LD was here or not.

ackeygraham
11-06-2014, 06:40 AM
If I'm right in thinking the club has been on holiday so to speak, hence the delay on TB who himself was on holiday and LD has done the correct thing and had face to face meeting.

I've got a feeling she's been working in the background as did say she would be moving fast on footballing matters this week.

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

Aldo
11-06-2014, 06:45 AM
Agree totally,think they must have someone ready to come in or he would have been sacked 2 weeks ago,and it takes a little bit of heat of Petrie (for a day then crank it up)

She has sounded very positive with regards to promotion so she knows she has to get this right and at the first time of asking so she'll have a plan (and no not a 5 year plan).

Wonder if she's also a list of targets suggested to her by the potential new manager??? Maybe way off the mark with this but to leave it till now just doesn't sit right.

stoneyburn hibs
11-06-2014, 06:51 AM
She has sounded very positive with regards to promotion so she knows she has to get this right and at the first time of asking so she'll have a plan (and no not a 5 year plan).

Wonder if she's also a list of targets suggested to her by the potential new manager??? Maybe way off the mark with this but to leave it till now just doesn't sit right.

Who says she has to get it right at the first time of asking ?

Aldo
11-06-2014, 06:54 AM
Who says she has to get it right at the first time of asking ?

Sorry I meant for promotion. That's the clubs or her main aim..... So in theory she'll have to get it right. We are already behind others in respect of set up and planning for new players so we need to step it up once the new manager comes in and get a team in place.

erskine-hibby
11-06-2014, 06:54 AM
Who says she has to get it right at the first time of asking ?

I'm pretty sure that the fans will.

stoneyburn hibs
11-06-2014, 07:02 AM
We are already miles behind other teams in preparation for next season.
The best we can hope for next season is a play off.

Gustavo Fring
11-06-2014, 07:04 AM
We are already miles behind other teams in preparation for next season.
The best we can hope for next season is a play off.

oh great another relegation playoff to look forward to

erskine-hibby
11-06-2014, 07:05 AM
We are already miles behind other teams in preparation for next season.
The best we can hope for next season is a play off.

Yup that's what I think too. We will also fall further behind now that we have to find a new manager also.

Just Alf
11-06-2014, 07:06 AM
We are already miles behind other teams in preparation for next season.
The best we can hope for next season is a play off.

Unfortunately I think you're right.

The only saving grace is the parachute payment in year 2 ( although it's halved at £250k ) .... If we don't make it up after that then we'll end up being a championship side for a bit ...... Makes the next 2 seasons absolutely critical to our aspirations at being a top level club.

jacomo
11-06-2014, 09:28 AM
Unfortunately I think you're right.

The only saving grace is the parachute payment in year 2 ( although it's halved at £250k ) .... If we don't make it up after that then we'll end up being a championship side for a bit ...... Makes the next 2 seasons absolutely critical to our aspirations at being a top level club.

:agree:

We need a sustainable business model. But staying in the Championship is not sustainable with our infrastructure and overheads. There's a risk in spending more than we've got but a bigger risk of continuing longer term decline.

LD has big plans it seems, both a 'football plan' and a 'non-football plan'. For those to be given space to work we need to get back into the habit of winning football matches again.

I've been fully supportive of the decisions made this week but I hope everybody at the club is 100% committed to rebuilding - and spending money if necessary.

Turkish Green
11-06-2014, 09:59 AM
I am sure Butcher would have left behind the fag packet with all his notes on, to assist LD.

Keith_M
11-06-2014, 10:11 AM
The Transfer Window opened on 9th June (only two days ago) and doesn't close yet for another ten and a half weeks. I agree we need the core of a team in for the start of the season but I disagree that sacking Butcher has now made it an impossible timeline to get in a decent set of players.

Maybe Butcher did have his eye on some players, therefore making us a little behind schedule, but it could also be the case that those players wouldn't want to play in the Championship.

I realise that there are fans that disagree with sacking Butcher, which is fair enough, but I genuinely don't think the situation is as bad as the OP is making out.

Iggy Pope
11-06-2014, 10:26 AM
Apologies if covered elsewhere (and I am sure it has been), but have Liam Craig, Ross Caldwell and the like actually gone anywhere and have they even been told to find clubs? Have the club said they are listening to offers? Does anyone have a link to that or has it come about through in the know posting?

The official site covered the release of out-of-contract players (probably more a financial decision than a footballing one, therefore Butcher's involvement was maybe negligible anyway).
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140526/out-of-contract-players_2262950_3858888

I look at the squad list on the club site and they are all still there, including Zoubir.
(Mind you, so is James Collins......wonder who decided he was surplus to requirements.....)

Eyrie
11-06-2014, 06:57 PM
Apologies if covered elsewhere (and I am sure it has been), but have Liam Craig, Ross Caldwell and the like actually gone anywhere and have they even been told to find clubs? Have the club said they are listening to offers? Does anyone have a link to that or has it come about through in the know posting?

The official site covered the release of out-of-contract players (probably more a financial decision than a footballing one, therefore Butcher's involvement was maybe negligible anyway).
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140526/out-of-contract-players_2262950_3858888

I look at the squad list on the club site and they are all still there, including Zoubir.
(Mind you, so is James Collins......wonder who decided he was surplus to requirements.....)
Craig has been linked with St Johnstone but nothing has happened. Both Caldwell and Handling are out of contract, although there was a rumour that they'd been offered new deals.

At present our squad (without promoting any u20s) is
No goalkeepers
Forster, Nelson, Hanlon, McGivern, Booth
Harris, Stanton, Robertson, Stevenson, Craig, Tudur Jones
Heffernan, Cummings

So the OP has a very valid point. Firing Butcher immediately would mean that we could have already appointed his replacement and the new man would be lining up signing targets and approaching any out of contract player that he wanted to retain right now, rather than after a further two weeks delay.

Onion
11-06-2014, 07:10 PM
Not sure why they allowed a man who they didn't think worthy of managing the team to release players ? He was bound to get shot if those he thought let him down ? Or have I just missed something ?

Ozyhibby
11-06-2014, 08:30 PM
Lots of people complaining that we should have given Butcher more time.
Lots of people complaining that the players should not have been released.
You would like to think it is not the same people given how truly awful we were last season but you can never be sure on here.

spike220
11-06-2014, 08:32 PM
What about all the planning Butcher, Malpas and Marsella had done as regards players for next season?
Butcher said he liked to get players in early so I am sure many players had been lined up albeit relegation will have meant these deals would be getting reviewed no doubt.

Now all this planning is thrown out the window. These deals surely shelved whilst a new manager is sourced. This new guy then has to form a management team, assess what's left of the squad (mostly deadwood as Butcher and we fans already know) and then start scouting and signing players.

Have we thrown the baby out with the bath water?

There was no baby and there was no bath water, it was all PISH.

Phil D. Rolls
11-06-2014, 08:39 PM
I wonder though LH if Dempster has been putting the feelers out last week to see who is available or not as the case maybe??

I would agree though that the timing could of been better and that he should of gone pretty much the week we got relegated.

I would be surprised if no one has been in touch with her. Correction, at one time I would have been surprised.

Paisley Hibby
11-06-2014, 08:55 PM
Yes the club has yet again cocked up.
They should have either backed Butcher in his plans to clear out and redevelop the team, or have sacked him earlier, regardless whether LD was here or not.

Could you imagine the meltdown on here if such a fundamental decision was taken BEFORE the new CEO started thus tying her hands? Get real.

erskine-hibby
11-06-2014, 09:09 PM
Could you imagine the meltdown on here if such a fundamental decision was taken BEFORE the new CEO started thus tying her hands? Get real.

Her hands are tied, and will be as long as Petrie remains at ER.

Eyrie
11-06-2014, 09:37 PM
Could you imagine the meltdown on here if such a fundamental decision was taken BEFORE the new CEO started thus tying her hands? Get real.

There was enough evidence to fire Butcher immediately after the playoff. The applications to replace him would arrive during the next few days, giving Dempster a list of candidates to consider as her first appointment when she officially started.

But I would expect her to have an idea of who would be available and suitable from her previous role. She would have had to consider the impact of McCall leaving for another job and have a contingency plan in place for his replacement at Motherwell.

Dashing Bob S
11-06-2014, 09:56 PM
As all this great planning activity by those geniuses (hopefully) didn't include playing in a lower division, they doubtless would have had to go back to the drawing board anyway, had they stayed, which I'm delighted to say has not been the case.

flash
11-06-2014, 10:24 PM
Her hands are tied, and will be as long as Petrie remains at ER.

Go and tell her that because she doesn't think so.

erskine-hibby
11-06-2014, 10:27 PM
Go and tell her that because she doesn't think so.

That doesn't make it not so though, does it?

Peevemor
11-06-2014, 10:27 PM
Go and tell her that because she doesn't think so.

Obviously she has no idea of what's really going on...