Hibernian after Butcher: The Latest Glass of Port and Revolver

[One Day Soon]

We are now a Championship club which will have to compete with The Rangers and Hearts to get out of that league next season. Our budget is being cut and the playing squad is going to be kept at a smaller size. Which proven manager do we think is going to want to come to Hibs in these circumstances?

I suspect we are going to have to take a punt on someone relatively unproven for the reasons above and because of the reputation that we are now dragging around like a ball and chain. Butcher was sacked after a disagreement on how to approach getting out of the Championship. That, to me, is code for "he wanted to spend money on decent players, the players he already had identified and lined up". Instead we are now going to see a different manager in post - eventually - trying to play catch up on who is available and who to bring in and working with an utterly threadbare squad as a starting point.

I'm not saying that sacking Butcher was the wrong decision or the right decision, but I am saying that despite the outpourings of satisfaction that this deed has been done the cold stark reality is that we are now a few weeks from the start of the new season without a manager, without a squad, without signing targets and the likelihood that meaningful pre-season fitness and tactical training either won't happen or will be perfunctory. Butcher may have been the next Sir Alex in waiting or he may have been the worst calamity ever in waiting, but from a player signing point of view at least he was Terry Butcher, former England captain with a giant network of contacts and Marsella feeding him gems from his own scouting.

Who, exactly, is going to take the job and be capable of bringing in a full squad - with quality - in time to make promotion a credible possibility? Unless we have a quality alternative already lined up and in place pretty much next week - and even if we do - I think we are up the creek because filling our club with players recommended by agents rather than through scouting looks to me how they are going to have to fill most of the squad places for next season.

I'd say our chances of getting out of the Championship at the first attempt just dropped pretty dramatically.

[southsider]

We are now a Championship club which will have to compete with The Rangers and Hearts to get out of that league next season. Our budget is being cut and the playing squad is going to be kept at a smaller size. Which proven manager do we think is going to want to come to Hibs in these circumstances?

I suspect we are going to have to take a punt on someone relatively unproven for the reasons above and because of the reputation that we are now dragging around like a ball and chain. Butcher was sacked after a disagreement on how to approach getting out of the Championship. That, to me, is code for "he wanted to spend money on decent players, the players he already had identified and lined up". Instead we are now going to see a different manager in post - eventually - trying to play catch up on who is available and who to bring in and working with an utterly threadbare squad as a starting point.

I'm not saying that sacking Butcher was the wrong decision or the right decision, but I am saying that despite the outpourings of satisfaction that this deed has been done the cold stark reality is that we are now a few weeks from the start of the new season without a manager, without a squad, without signing targets and the likelihood that meaningful pre-season fitness and tactical training either won't happen or will be perfunctory. Butcher may have been the next Sir Alex in waiting or he may have been the worst calamity ever in waiting, but from a player signing point of view at least he was Terry Butcher, former England captain with a giant network of contacts and Marsella feeding him gems from his own scouting.

Who, exactly, is going to take the job and be capable of bringing in a full squad - with quality - in time to make promotion a credible possibility? Unless we have a quality alternative already lined up and in place pretty much next week - and even if we do - I think we are up the creek because filling our club with players recommended by agents rather than through scouting looks to me how they are going to have to fill most of the squad places for next season.

I'd say our chances of getting out of the Championship at the first attempt just dropped pretty dramatically.
Gems ? Like the 3 at the last window. Poor man-manager, hopeless coach and relegation was mostly his fault. BYYYYYE

[One Day Soon]

Gems ? Like the 3 at the last window. Poor man-manager, hopeless coach and relegation was mostly his fault. BYYYYYE


You are blaming Marsella for our relegation? If you think you get anything sensible during the January window I'm astonished.

Still, we've been treated to a good old fashioned witch burning so warm yourself by the fire before tomorrow's very cold winds come.

Do we even have enough players on the books to be able to begin pre-season training in three week's time?

[Beefster]

Butcher was sacked after a disagreement on how to approach getting out of the Championship. That, to me, is code for "he wanted to spend money on decent players, the players he already had identified and lined up".

I think that's a pretty big assumption to make. I think it's more likely that Butcher and Dempster couldn't agree on way the club was to be run than Butcher wanting to spend loads of cash.

I think the rest of your post is overly pessimistic too.

[hibsbollah]

Not for the first time, your cheerful-sounding user name is at odds with your pessimistic opinions, ODS.

Why not take a dive into the pool of unbridled optimism? the water's lovely. And remember, our new manager will be busy watching potential signings strut their stuff in Brazil, with his pockets stuffed with Leanne's newly acquired Farmer cash:party:

[Criswell]

We are now a Championship club which will have to compete with The Rangers and Hearts to get out of that league next season. Our budget is being cut and the playing squad is going to be kept at a smaller size. Which proven manager do we think is going to want to come to Hibs in these circumstances?

I suspect we are going to have to take a punt on someone relatively unproven for the reasons above and because of the reputation that we are now dragging around like a ball and chain. Butcher was sacked after a disagreement on how to approach getting out of the Championship. That, to me, is code for "he wanted to spend money on decent players, the players he already had identified and lined up". Instead we are now going to see a different manager in post - eventually - trying to play catch up on who is available and who to bring in and working with an utterly threadbare squad as a starting point.

I'm not saying that sacking Butcher was the wrong decision or the right decision, but I am saying that despite the outpourings of satisfaction that this deed has been done the cold stark reality is that we are now a few weeks from the start of the new season without a manager, without a squad, without signing targets and the likelihood that meaningful pre-season fitness and tactical training either won't happen or will be perfunctory. Butcher may have been the next Sir Alex in waiting or he may have been the worst calamity ever in waiting, but from a player signing point of view at least he was Terry Butcher, former England captain with a giant network of contacts and Marsella feeding him gems from his own scouting.

Who, exactly, is going to take the job and be capable of bringing in a full squad - with quality - in time to make promotion a credible possibility? Unless we have a quality alternative already lined up and in place pretty much next week - and even if we do - I think we are up the creek because filling our club with players recommended by agents rather than through scouting looks to me how they are going to have to fill most of the squad places for next season.

I'd say our chances of getting out of the Championship at the first attempt just dropped pretty dramatically.

100% agree with this. For me sacking Butcher is a bigger gamble than retaining him. Can't see us getting anyone of the quality needed; in management or players!

[jeffers]

You are blaming Marsella for our relegation? If you think you get anything sensible during the January window I'm astonished.

Still, we've been treated to a good old fashioned witch burning so warm yourself by the fire before tomorrow's very cold winds come.

Do we even have enough players on the books to be able to begin pre-season training in three week's time?

Aberdeen managed it. Pretty sure St Mirren did and I know Partick did. Lyle Taylor or Danny Haynes ?? Know who I'd choose.

[skipster7]

I thought it was code for play one up front then lob the ball repeatedly into the corners, it must work eventually...

[Hibbyradge]

Butcher was a disaster from the word go. For example;

Almost as soon as he walked in the door, Butcher told players that they weren't required, then eventually picked them for the first team.

He substituted Harris in the first game against Hamilton, saying he was playing poorly because had lost his confidence. Then, after 8 minutes, he put him on in the home tie, only to substitute him again, because he was poor.

Butcher couldn't motivate his squad to win the one game in the last 13 SPFL matches that would have kept us in the league, 8 of which were against bottom 6 clubs.

He relegated us after we had been fighting for a top 6 finish. The type of football he had them playing was so awful, that many long in the tooth fans, just stopped going.

I can find nothing, nothing at all, in his Hibs record that suggests he has what it takes to keep our heads above water in the Championship, never mind win the division.

I'm pleased he's been sacked and frankly, I'd rather an extra year in the Championship with a new man who will buy into the "new direction", than have to put up with Butcher's "style", "tactics" and "man-management" any longer.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Did you watch the team under butcher? It was atrocious football. I think the Hibs job would be attractive to any manager, 2nd biggest budget in the league? The rangers facing their first difficult league in 3 years, the windae lickers still in a shambles, with a tiny budget and a rookie manager (and an idiot DoF).

SM is not the only person in football with a good set of connections, the manager we bring in will have his own and will bring in his own players with the helping an experience CEO who track record proves she can do it.

The only negative thing about Hibs at the moment is the fact Petrie is still here. There is only reason for optimism at the moment, and this is coming from me, one of the biggest cynics I know.

[PeeJay]

Who, exactly, is going to take the job and be capable of bringing in a full squad - with quality - in time to make promotion a credible possibility? Unless we have a quality alternative already lined up and in place pretty much next week - and even if we do - I think we are up the creek because filling our club with players recommended by agents rather than through scouting looks to me how they are going to have to fill most of the squad places for next season.

I'd say our chances of getting out of the Championship at the first attempt just dropped pretty dramatically.

:top marksSpot on ... good post - The sacking smacks to me of cheap actionism to appease the fans at short notice, as ever. The "official statement" was all a bit vague too IMO, she could have expanded on the "different approach" for example: what exactly does she want for our club, why hasn't she put it out there, now would be a good time to do so?

What we need is some major financial investment into a mix of top players and youngsters, coupled with a good manager who wants us playing modern football, and a management/owner team who have a clear vision for this club: we simply must get out of the Championship NEXT season, but I don't believe for a second that any of that will be forthcoming. We'll be down for a few seasons with the "real culprits still in charge, still just plodding around, hoping something will turn up ... seems to me we're leaping from one mistake to another ...

[cleanyman]

I wanted Stuart Mccall.

The fans wanted Butcher but some including myself knew he was going to be a complete disaster.

He's relegated one of Scotland's biggest clubs from a near impossible position.

He should have been sacked weeks ago and I agree with the OP that we are now well behind our rivals.

[woodyloon]

Looks like the rumours might of been true re the first meeting at EM with LD that the budget was getting cut, and supposedly Malpas was not happy at that time.

[erskine-hibby]

We are now a Championship club which will have to compete with The Rangers and Hearts to get out of that league next season. Our budget is being cut and the playing squad is going to be kept at a smaller size. Which proven manager do we think is going to want to come to Hibs in these circumstances?

I suspect we are going to have to take a punt on someone relatively unproven for the reasons above and because of the reputation that we are now dragging around like a ball and chain. Butcher was sacked after a disagreement on how to approach getting out of the Championship. That, to me, is code for "he wanted to spend money on decent players, the players he already had identified and lined up". Instead we are now going to see a different manager in post - eventually - trying to play catch up on who is available and who to bring in and working with an utterly threadbare squad as a starting point.

I'm not saying that sacking Butcher was the wrong decision or the right decision, but I am saying that despite the outpourings of satisfaction that this deed has been done the cold stark reality is that we are now a few weeks from the start of the new season without a manager, without a squad, without signing targets and the likelihood that meaningful pre-season fitness and tactical training either won't happen or will be perfunctory. Butcher may have been the next Sir Alex in waiting or he may have been the worst calamity ever in waiting, but from a player signing point of view at least he was Terry Butcher, former England captain with a giant network of contacts and Marsella feeding him gems from his own scouting.

Who, exactly, is going to take the job and be capable of bringing in a full squad - with quality - in time to make promotion a credible possibility? Unless we have a quality alternative already lined up and in place pretty much next week - and even if we do - I think we are up the creek because filling our club with players recommended by agents rather than through scouting looks to me how they are going to have to fill most of the squad places for next season.

I'd say our chances of getting out of the Championship at the first attempt just dropped pretty dramatically.

Pretty much what I've been thinking.
Any players identified and lined up are now going to think twice.
The fact that we are now looking for a new manager will definitely curtail our preseason preparations. Do we get someone in quickly, or do we take our time? Time that we don't have. All this and Petrie is still there!
What a shambles.

[jacomo]

Pretty much what I've been thinking.
Any players identified and lined up are now going to think twice.
The fact that we are now looking for a new manager will definitely curtail our preseason preparations. Do we get someone in quickly, or do we take our time? Time that we don't have. All this and Petrie is still there!
What a shambles.

Any players we'd identified would have been thinking twice anyhow. That's because we were relegated.

It's almost impossible to overstate how badly TB f***** it up, after a warm welcome and initial bounce. We then get relegated and he goes completely silent and disappears on holiday, after months of constant chat and telling us about cancelling days off for the players after defeats.

It's true we are behind in our preparations for next season, but frankly TB should take the blame for that. I cannot believe he didn't offer to resign.

[greenpaper55]

Just listened to the podcast on the BBC and LD seemed to intimate that the squad was to big recently and reading between the lines i hope it's quality over quantity.

[BH Hibs]

You ask who is going to take the job? I would say a manager with ambition because if he turns us round he can move on almost anywhere. This job is still a big job in terms of Scottish football and should be looked on as a shop window not a poisoned chalice. I'm sick of this fans have unrealistic expectations at Hibs pish as well. The job was too big for Fenlon and Calderwood and now you can add Butcher too the list. Wasn't too big for Mowbray or Mcleish they relished the challenge and moved on to bigger if not better things. New manager needed *****bags need not apply

[Lewis77]

He was hired to do a job which he failed at, so he got the boot! I liken it to a carpenter being given an unstable chair, then handing it back to the client with one leg and no back rest.

Some of the football we played under him is the worst I've ever seen by Hibs. I honestly think it's hard to justify him (Butcher) not being fired.

Perhaps some folks think that Hibs would make progress If Butcher was given the opportunity to build a team of 'his' players, that he did a good job at ICT and that he has a reputation (of sorts) in the game, a stature of which Hibs will find hard to replace? All of which I believe is slightly desperate, clutching at straws a wee bit.

He was given a football team to do a job on and handed it back in a far worse position than he received it, the result of this is he lost his job.

[erskine-hibby]

Any players we'd identified would have been thinking twice anyhow. That's because we were relegated.

It's almost impossible to overstate how badly TB f***** it up, after a warm welcome and initial bounce. We then get relegated and he goes completely silent and disappears on holiday, after months of constant chat and telling us about cancelling days off for the players after defeats.

It's true we are behind in our preparations for next season, but frankly TB should take the blame for that. I cannot believe he didn't offer to resign.

And why would he?
When he took the job on it was clear, and stated, that there was a huge rebuild needed. He never got 1 closed season to change things or start the restructure of the squad.
Well now we have no team and no manager. Regardless of how LD comes across, at the moment, we're screwed.