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View Full Version : Terry Butcher relieved of duties



Dashing Bob S
10-06-2014, 02:32 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

AllyT
10-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

Sauce?

silverhibee
10-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.


Who has gone.

calumhibee1
10-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Official site. Good stuff.

Turkish Green
10-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Who has gone.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140610/terry-butcher_2262950_3895617


And Petrie attended the meeting.

I'm_cabbaged
10-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

Thumbs up smiley.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:35 PM
Bums, I wanted to be the one to post this................


Terry Butcher Gone (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140610/terry-butcher_2262950_3895617)

Pretty Boy
10-06-2014, 02:35 PM
Good stuff. Never nice to see someone lose their job but that is the right decision.

New CEO, new team, new manager. A fresh start.

yeezus.
10-06-2014, 02:36 PM
Just saw that on my Facebook from HFC website.

Thank god.

matty_f
10-06-2014, 02:36 PM
For the best, IMHO. I had thought for long enough that he needed time but I've read and heard some real horror stories about his time here, so best move to make.

Look forward to seeing who comes in next.

Boyle89
10-06-2014, 02:36 PM
Took long enough.
Now time to move forward.

lugz
10-06-2014, 02:36 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

dmc1875
10-06-2014, 02:36 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140610/terry-butcher_2262950_3895617


And Petrie attended the meeting.

Honestly so what? I have full faith and trust in LD.

He has been sacked. You can't sack someone without a witness.

Pray4Marc
10-06-2014, 02:37 PM
Good too see him gone. One thing that did concern me was he was able to punt mcpake and Thommo when he no doubt knew he himself was getting punted

dmc1875
10-06-2014, 02:37 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

This is the bit I don't understand

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Yeeeee haaaaaa!

GoldenMeerkat
10-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Hallelujah!

matty_f
10-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Interesting comment about Malpas at the bottom of the article, that'll be a nice surprise for him to come back his holidays to!:greengrin

--------
10-06-2014, 02:39 PM
This is the bit I don't understand


Me neither.

leggeto
10-06-2014, 02:39 PM
They are going to do a press conference at 4.30 apparently the butcher is going

easty
10-06-2014, 02:39 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

The players who got us relegated. They're out of Hibs for the same reason he is. Not. Good. Enough.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:39 PM
Good too see him gone. One thing that did concern me was he was able to punt mcpake and Thommo when he no doubt knew he himself was getting punted


Maybe the decision was made after the players were released.

stubru59
10-06-2014, 02:40 PM
The right decision.

easty
10-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Who'll be next? I cannae really think of anyone to come in and do the job. Go for a foreigner?

I'd love Ian Murray to be a successful boss at Hibs, maybe too early for him though.

s.a.m
10-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Interesting comment about Malpas at the bottom of the article, that'll be a nice surprise for him to come back his holidays to!:greengrin


Maybe he's getting the job. :dunno:







:tee hee:

Eternal Hibbie
10-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Nice one Leeann. :D:D:D

skipster7
10-06-2014, 02:41 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange
No. The players were out of contract and mostly gash tbh

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 02:42 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

GloryGlory
10-06-2014, 02:42 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

He's not the only one that is relieved! :greengrin :wink:

gillythehibby
10-06-2014, 02:42 PM
Good ! I didny want um in the first place. He got found out big time. :flag:

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:42 PM
"Our first aim must be to try to win the league and gain promotion automatically."



Leeann agrees with me :greengrin

johnrebus
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
One down.

One to go!!!!!


:na na:

NOLA
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
probably the right course, difference on appproach to the championship apparently

GloryGlory
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
No. The players were out of contract and mostly gash tbh

:agree: He may have been the one doing the dirty work, but I suspect that, after relegation, he was acting under orders from the board.

patch1875
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Woo hoo new boss stamping her at authority.

dmc1875
10-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Interesting comment about Malpas at the bottom of the article, that'll be a nice surprise for him to come back his holidays to!:greengrin

Thought that. Surely they have already told him before announcing it.

If not I'd love to see the state of the holiday place he's in. He'll be smashing chairs up, burning buildings, the works.

Turkish Green
10-06-2014, 02:44 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

To be honest, my wife could have picked the players to leave. It was that obvious.

easty
10-06-2014, 02:44 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

If we hadnt brought in Dempster I'd be saying the same. I'm happy enough to let her have a go at running the club with a clean slate though, and to do that TB had to go. Just a shame we're not able to empty more of the imposters who were playing for us last season.

Boyle89
10-06-2014, 02:44 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

Really? I think you'll be in the minority.

Brightside
10-06-2014, 02:44 PM
Give it to James.

Hibs History
10-06-2014, 02:44 PM
Good ! I didny want um in the first place. He got found out big time. :flag:

You must have been one a of very select group

sambajustice
10-06-2014, 02:45 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange


Not really, he comes in, does the dirty work and is the bad guy then leaves. Whoever comes in next has no baggage to deal with, no dirty work to do, he will purely be building his own team - fresh start.

Besides, were most of the players who left not out of contract anyway??

Turkish Green
10-06-2014, 02:45 PM
"Our first aim must be to try to win the league and gain promotion automatically."

I would tend to agree as Hibs don't do Play-Offs.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-06-2014, 02:46 PM
Well done Dempster !!

Pete
10-06-2014, 02:46 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

Agree to an extent as I believe he could have turned us round. Sad ending.

However, with a new manager coming and Petrie not in charge any more we now have a true clean slate.
A real chance to get the unity back that we need to move forward.

skipster7
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Imo there was no way he could continue after a shambolic last few months. Plenty will say the players didnt give a **** which might be true to an extent but he should/could have played the ones that did even if it meant playing the whole U20s team.
Good riddance Terry.

PeeJay
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Well, maybe there are a few things in the pipeline in the upcoming days/weeks that will convince me otherwise, but nothing I've read and heard so far suggest that this club has any concept of where it is heading in future other than further downwards ... not convinced the decision re. Butcher is the right one, but it's immaterial now ...

Danderhall Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
The players who got us relegated. They're out of Hibs for the same reason he is. Not. Good. Enough.


No. The players were out of contract and mostly gash tbh

Exactly - of those released who would a new manager want to keep?

Maybe Collins and Craig (is he away yet anyway?) are/were worth a shot but I think a majority are too far gone with them to give them a 2nd chance.

Pedantic_Hibee
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Ian Murray for me.

Stevie Reid
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Interesting comment about Malpas at the bottom of the article, that'll be a nice surprise for him to come back his holidays to!:greengrin

Sounds like he's getting the undignified exit his (apparent) behaviour deserves :greengrin

Wonder if SM will be retained as a scout. Pretty much the only thing we can salvage from this mess.

LordBamba
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Bit disappointing but the way he set Hibs up to play was torture. Hopefully the manager appointed plays good football

Scorrie
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Correct decision. Lets get the next appointment right this time though eh?

Hibstrooper
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
I feel a massive sense of relief and renewed optimism for next season. Really wasn't looking forward to watching Butcher football again.

Danderhall Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:48 PM
What's everyone saying to Petrie being involved?

dmc1875
10-06-2014, 02:48 PM
No more HOOOOOOOOF

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 02:48 PM
Really? I think you'll be in the minority.

That doesn't bother me.

Shaggy
10-06-2014, 02:49 PM
Least its not mid season,
but we let a guy empty an entire squad and pumped him to boot.

Morris must go as well please.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:49 PM
Now in Evening News (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-sack-manager-terry-butcher-1-3439274)

Joe
10-06-2014, 02:50 PM
A) The buck can't stop with Butcher, Petrie has to go as well. He can't throw us a bone and hope we'll go away. Hibs didn't get relegated just because we had a bad five months, it was a culmination of years of miss management.

B) If he was going to be sacked then why was he allowed to have a say in who could go and who could stay? There's no way we'll convince a player of the class of Kevin Thomson to come having just released Kevin Thomson!

C) Where does this leave players like Craig who have been told they aren't in the plans of a manager who has been shown the door? Do they get another chance?

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 02:50 PM
Agree to an extent as I believe he could have turned us round. Sad ending.

However, with a new manager coming and Petrie not in charge any more we now have a true clean slate.
A real chance to get the unity back that we need to move forward.

I'm willing to bet Petrie had a big say in today's news. Trying to save himself again. He must follow terry out the door.

GloryGlory
10-06-2014, 02:50 PM
Sounds like he's getting the undignified exit his (apparent) behaviour deserves :greengrin

Wonder if SM will be retained as a scout. Pretty much the only thing we can salvage from this mess.

Hope not. We need footballers in, not hoofballers.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:50 PM
Ian Murray for me.


The MP?????

Stevie Reid
10-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Hope not. We need footballers in, not hoofballers.

There is no doubt that Inverness have signed some very good SPL players in the last few seasons. If he was responsible, he is worth keeping rather than paying him off and hiring someone else. His arrival along with TB was crucial at the time.

The Green Goblin
10-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

This is different though. This is the end of the merry-go-round and he's the last one from the old Hibs era to go. He had to go. He failed badly...simple as that.

BVB Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Was happy with the decision when he came in. Equally happy he's now gone. Going on the run he went on at the end of the season is a sackable offence. How many games was it that we only needed 3 points? Started against St J where 3 could have seen us into the top 6 and safe. Had plenty of chances to turn it around, and had he managed to save a 2-0 at home against Hamilton he'd probably have been spared. Really, there wasn't much to save him in the role, and he'll have been expecting it I reckon.

Thanks for the Derby win Terry, now don't let the door hit you on the way out.

steakbake
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
Disappointing as I think Terry could have done a job. However, understandable given the free fall. There needs to be a clean sweep through the club. We've all read or heard of various things alleged and factually known about what goes on behind the scenes at Hibs. Perhaps finally, the club is going to handle this situation.

No idea who we should get next, but I wouldn't mind someone from outside of Scotland/the UK to come in and bring a new direction to the football.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
I'm willing to bet Petrie had a big say in today's news. Trying to save himself again. He must follow terry out the door.


I get where you're coming from but I have a feeling that this genuinely was Dempster's decision.

FWIW, the article said the Board's decision was unanimous.

gem
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

Exactly why on earth let him make any decisions when they didnt plan on keeping him!! Im not his biggest fan but that is just typical Hibs letting this happen!

hibeeleicester
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
Great decision by Petrie. He still calls the shots doesn't he?

Gerard
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
I hope that the CEO and Hibs BODs have made the right decision...... I hope the next Head Coach has more success and is given more time to make the team successful.

Danderhall Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
Is Owen Coyle out of our reach?

His stock's fallen in England and Celtic weren't interested so needs to rebuild his career (bit like McInnes) so maybe he'd take a chance?

greenpaper55
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
That doesn't bother me.

Clearly you couldn't have been at the Hamilton game ?, the worst performing Hibs team i have seen in fifty years of going to ER, he should have been sacked the day after the game but i bet oor Rod wanted to keep him.

Danderhall Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
I hope that the CEO and Hibs BODs have made the right decision...... I hope the next Head Coach has more success and is given more time to make the team successful.

Or less time if his records even close to being as bad as Butchers?

SMAXXA
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Maybe the decision was made after the players were released.

It was but could the club not give certain players a heads up on the QT not to rush into anything until after their holidays or to that effect. What's done is done I just know some players sold like to have stayed and look on the bright side those still here that were told to go will be delighted :wink:.

correct decision imo

matty_f
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Sounds like he's getting the undignified exit his (apparent) behaviour deserves :greengrin

Wonder if SM will be retained as a scout. Pretty much the only thing we can salvage from this mess.

I would doubt it, Marsella has been slated by a number of folk and was cited as one of the key reasons for Williams' exit. I don't think there will be much appetite at the club to retain any of Butcher's staff.

Going by Leeann's comment that it was "unacceptable" that Hibs had only 3 paid for scouts on the books, I would expect the scouting set-up to change very soon anyway which negates the need for Marsella.

BoltonHibee1875
10-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Get in!! Bye bye


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Great decision by Petrie. He still calls the shots doesn't he?

Put your mortgage on it.

Danderhall Hibs
10-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Clearly you couldn't have been at the Hamilton game ?, the worst performing Hibs team i have seen in fifty years of going to ER, he should have been sacked the day after the game but i bet oor Rod wanted to keep him.

Rod just sacked him?

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 02:55 PM
Clearly you couldn't have been at the Hamilton game ?, the worst performing Hibs team i have seen in fifty years of going to ER, he should have been sacked the day after the game but i bet oor Rod wanted to keep him.

I clearly was at both Hamilton matches. You clearly weren't at Dingwall the week before. That was worse, but you know best.

brog
10-06-2014, 02:55 PM
I was thrilled when we appointed TB but I believe his position was untenable after the farce that was the last 6 months. Like others on this board I'm surprised that decisions re players' futures were made, presumably by a manager who himself had no future. I'm also puzzled why TB could enjoy tremendous success at ICT with a squad of players who apparently fully supported his methods yet those same methods created mayhem at ER. To paraphrase, we could not afford not to sack him!

GlasgowHibee
10-06-2014, 02:55 PM
What I don't understand is why he was given the power to decide on our squad.

What happens if the new manager had come in and decided he wanted to keep some of the players?

Apart from that it was the correct decision IMO.

Yuillsy
10-06-2014, 02:55 PM
Thought that. Surely they have already told him before announcing it.

If not I'd love to see the state of the holiday place he's in. He'll be smashing chairs up, burning buildings, the works.
He'll be running about his holiday village screaming "It's all that **** Jeffers fault"!!!!

LancashireHibby
10-06-2014, 02:57 PM
Every sympathy for Butcher, I personally thought he needed to be given a full pre season to get new players in and have a decent chance to work with them. That said, if this decision was going to be made then it should have been made within 24 hours of the Hamilton farce, but instead we're left with yet another Hibs manager playing catch up. God only knows who's going to be daft enough to take the job on.

silverhibee
10-06-2014, 02:57 PM
The players who got us relegated. They're out of Hibs for the same reason he is. Not. Good. Enough.

:agree:

woodyloon
10-06-2014, 02:58 PM
It's good news all round, Butcher can go to Brazil without having to worrying about rebuilding a football club.

Stevie Reid
10-06-2014, 02:58 PM
I would doubt it, Marsella has been slated by a number of folk and was cited as one of the key reasons for Williams' exit. I don't think there will be much appetite at the club to retain any of Butcher's staff.

Going by Leeann's comment that it was "unacceptable" that Hibs had only 3 paid for scouts on the books, I would expect the scouting set-up to change very soon anyway which negates the need for Marsella.

Here's hoping, Matty. I just figured that the one thing that should still be the same since we recruited the three was Marsella's ability to find talent, but I guess it's just indicative of a disastrous appointment from us!

Glad Butcher's gone, but it really puts into further context just how utterly, utterly horrendous the last 6 months have been.

Weststandwanab
10-06-2014, 03:00 PM
The MP?????

Soon to be the ex M.P. !

Reaper
10-06-2014, 03:00 PM
This is different though. This is the end of the merry-go-round and he's the last one from the old Hibs era to go. He had to go. He failed badly...simple as that.

Whilst I agree with you, part of me feels sorry for him. He was obviously not the right man in the first instance if the club are now saying they need a new style. In a way hes been a victim of another catastrophoc managerial appointment.

21.05.2016
10-06-2014, 03:00 PM
Anyone else think Petrie might be trying to appease the fans a bit to get us off his back a little?

Thank god tho - sorry butcher all the best for the future n that but I'm glad your not our manger anymore.

greenpaper55
10-06-2014, 03:00 PM
I clearly was at both Hamilton matches. You clearly weren't at Dingwall the week before. That was worse, but you know best.

And you wanted to keep him !.

Greenworld
10-06-2014, 03:01 PM
I'm willing to bet Petrie had a big say in today's news. Trying to save himself again. He must follow terry out the door.

Think your totally wrong ....he had to back whatever LD thought was the correct decision
Reading the threads looks to me like a very large section wanted him out.

To me it close to a clean start...

Capt Mainwaring
10-06-2014, 03:01 PM
Not paricularly palatable to dance on anyone's dismissal but even accepting that TB had an abysmal squad of players to deal with - a decent Manager could and should have kept us in the SPFL.

His tactics were appalling, his motivation non existent, and his "dealings" in the January Transfer Window makes you wonder if he knows what a good footballer looks like!

He's paid the price that all under performing Managers do

He had to go - clean slate required.

Diclonius
10-06-2014, 03:01 PM
Gutted for Butcher and totally dismayed that the revolving door at Easter Road continues to turn but in all honesty it was the right decision. He ****ed it up after he went mental at the players and lost the dressing room. That was the final nail in the coffin of the last 7 miserable years.

Yet, the man who employed these failures still remains. Get him the **** out.

jeffers
10-06-2014, 03:02 PM
The right decision, just a pity it took so long and it was his choice which players contracts were allowed to end. Said all along if he got us relegated he should have gone, if he'd any honour he should have done so of his own volition straight after the Hamilton game.

Bye TB, you won't be missed, the worst manager I've ever seen at ER. And take that pr*ck MM with you.

Next RP.

Togs91
10-06-2014, 03:03 PM
Worrying news. The right decision however its taken far too long. With a limited amount of time left we need to find a manager, and find a team to prepare for one of the most important seasons in our history. Hopefully leanne has an idea in mind before giving him the boot. I hope petrie was at the meeting only in good gesture as he appointed him as manager, and that he now stays well clear of any footballing matters, leave leanne to do her job petrie, then get out!!

Greenworld
10-06-2014, 03:04 PM
Is Owen Coyle out of our reach?

His stock's fallen in England and Celtic weren't interested so needs to rebuild his career (bit like McInnes) so maybe he'd take a chance?

Not a bad call......just saw Stuart McCall sitting in a car round the corner from the stadium :wink:

ionahibby
10-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Interesting to see what the press conference is about. Do they usually have one after a sacking?

Pete
10-06-2014, 03:05 PM
A big decision has been made after Leeann stating that she has full control.

This board: "it was Petrie"

I despair.

ALF TUPPER
10-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Really liking our CEO.

:thumbsup:

eggbamyasi
10-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Gutted for BT and staff . But it didn't work and relegation means it had to happen . Another manager gone ! Who's next to not do amazing and be berated till they leave I wonder ? Hope it's not Ian Murray because I really don't want another good his man being booted from the club . intersting couple of weeks coming up me thinks ...........

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Aldo
10-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Is Owen Coyle out of our reach? His stock's fallen in England and Celtic weren't interested so needs to rebuild his career (bit like McInnes) so maybe he'd take a chance?

Don't think so. Maybe having paid TB and the gang off we maybe looking at a manager that won't cost us compensation.

Would maybe prefer a foreign manager with a different approach.

Looks like our search for players will be on the back burner once again. A week or so to install a new manager doesn't leave much time??

Unseen work
10-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Makes it very odd that Collins was allowed to be sold IMO.

And really frustrating that Thomson left!

LancashireHibby
10-06-2014, 03:08 PM
Is Owen Coyle out of our reach?

His stock's fallen in England and Celtic weren't interested so needs to rebuild his career (bit like McInnes) so maybe he'd take a chance?
His stock has fallen for a reason. He's a tactically inept clown.



Should fit in fine at ER then.



:boo hoo:

Stevie Reid
10-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Interesting to see what the press conference is about. Do they usually have one after a sacking?

Aye. Jim Duffy actually spoke in a very dignified manner at his, IIRC.

J-C
10-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Been on the phone to Scottish Power and BT for past 2 hrs and just came back on, yippee this has made my week, thank you Leeann for doing the right thing, now do the next right thing and get a manager capable of taking this once proud club back to where it belongs and that's at the top end on the premier league. :greengrin:thumbsup::flag:

leggeto
10-06-2014, 03:09 PM
How much is this going to cost us,or was a clause in the contract for relegation and you may be out

BSEJVT
10-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Thanks God for that,

A lot, but not enough of the playing dross gone, more to follow please

1 down (Hendry, Petrie, Malpas & Marsella next please) from our under achieving management structure.

Butcher was quite easily the worst Hibs Manager of my lifetime

His departure (as I hope that of the other 4 jokers detailed above will follow) was necessary bloodletting as we simply cant go into the new season as divided as we are and with such a horrible undercurrent of in-fighting and anti certain player sentiment as we have.

( I accept that far from all Hibs Supporters wanted Butcher gone)

Unfortunately his continued presence was always going to be too divisive and if we had started badly as I think we are likely to, given level of rebuild, it would have been a bloodbath.

If we can get shot of above 4 and the Craig's, Tudour Jones's, Heffernan's, Nelson's & McGivern's of this world I will feel genuinely optimistic for our future for the first time in god knows how long.

Lets get back to a Hibs team built on young guys who want to be there striving to make their future in the game playing football the proper way, rather than the hackneyed old pros looking to top up their pension funds.

TornadoHibby
10-06-2014, 03:10 PM
For the best, IMHO. I had thought for long enough that he needed time but I've read and heard some real horror stories about his time here, so best move to make.

Look forward to seeing who comes in next.

Never thought that I'd see the day when I agreed 100% with something you posted Matty but here we have it today! :wink: :greengrin

Hopefully we can now take steps to repair the damage of the past few years and of last season particularly without wasting any more time at it! :agree:

J-C
10-06-2014, 03:11 PM
Makes it very odd that Collins was allowed to be sold IMO.

And really frustrating that Thomson left!

Maybe LD had more to do with all that, a clean slate needed all round starting with the underachieving players and the out of contract ones, also may have a new manager in line who didn't fancy them.

Greenworld
10-06-2014, 03:11 PM
What I don't understand is why he was given the power to decide on our squad.

What happens if the new manager had come in and decided he wanted to keep some of the players?

Apart from that it was the correct decision IMO.

I understand what your saying but name a good one

lucky
10-06-2014, 03:11 PM
It was the right decison he led us to relegation. Only Petrie to go and the clear out will be done. Players , coaches and we now it must be the Chairman

Winston Ingram
10-06-2014, 03:11 PM
:flag::taxi:bye::party::rockin::hug::applause:

GloryGlory
10-06-2014, 03:12 PM
How much is this going to cost us,or was a clause in the contract for relegation and you may be out

Said he has been "relieved of duties" which I take to mean gardening leave. He will still be on the payroll, until he finds a new job or his contract expires, whichever is sooner.

Itsnoteasy
10-06-2014, 03:12 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

YEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAA:top marks:not worth:thumbsup::bye:

GordonHFC
10-06-2014, 03:13 PM
Can someone get round quickly to the club shop and see who is currently in there. That'll be the guy for the job me thinks. That is the way it works isn't it?

Hibiza
10-06-2014, 03:13 PM
Brill. malpas foul mouth :bye:

Itsnoteasy
10-06-2014, 03:13 PM
It was the right decison he led us to relegation. Only Petrie to go and the clear out will be done. Players , coaches and we now it must be the Chairman

Still a few players to go hopefully

I'm_cabbaged
10-06-2014, 03:14 PM
Brill. malpas foul mouth :bye:

Is that the best reason you can think of?

Barman Stanton
10-06-2014, 03:14 PM
So he decided what players were allowed to leave then we get rid of him. Strange

Other than Collins the players were out of contract and clearly not good enough.

s.a.m
10-06-2014, 03:15 PM
Makes it very odd that Collins was allowed to be sold IMO.

And really frustrating that Thomson left!

Maybe he said he wanted to go?

On the subject of Thomson, I liked him as a player but am happy that the new manager will be picking his own senior players (mostly), and won't be having to deal with many disgruntled players left over from former managers. That hasn't worked out for us in the past.

nribs
10-06-2014, 03:16 PM
Quickest 4 page thread I have ever seen.

Aldo
10-06-2014, 03:17 PM
:flag::taxi:bye::party::rockin::hug::applause:

Party at Winston's !!!! :-) ;-)

PS don't drink his LAGER!!! ;-)

leggeto
10-06-2014, 03:18 PM
Said he has been "relieved of duties" which I take to mean gardening leave. He will still be on the payroll, until he finds a new job or his contract expires, whichever is sooner.

More money wasted on x3 wages as I take it malpas and marsella will be going too

The Green Goblin
10-06-2014, 03:18 PM
Whilst I agree with you, part of me feels sorry for him. He was obviously not the right man in the first instance if the club are now saying they need a new style. In a way hes been a victim of another catastrophoc managerial appointment.

Agree with you there. I think it was the right call but I'm definitely not jumping for joy about it or anything. Sad times at Hibs all round, but hopefully this is the lowest point and it's upwards from here.

s.a.m
10-06-2014, 03:18 PM
Michael Stewart ‏@mstewart_23 26m (https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/476374173221400576) Butcher gone it had to happen. @LeeannDempster (https://twitter.com/LeeannDempster) clearly made that decision as well. TB killed youngsters and football while there. Who now

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Hibrandenburg
10-06-2014, 03:19 PM
"Our first aim must be to try to win the league and gain promotion automatically."



Leeann agrees with me :greengrin

We're in deeper **** than I thought! :greengrin

Unseen work
10-06-2014, 03:19 PM
His stock has fallen for a reason. He's a tactically inept clown.



Should fit in fine at ER then.





:boo hoo:

Could do a lot worse IMO, done well in Scotland and will have a lot of contacts

tamsonsbairn
10-06-2014, 03:20 PM
my money is on Russell Latapy.

Paisley Hibby
10-06-2014, 03:20 PM
Relieved of his duties with immediate effect.

Sorry it didn't work out but this is SO the right decision.

sesoim
10-06-2014, 03:21 PM
I am so angry right now. Terry has had an appalling start, but Petrie and all his duff managerial appointments have contributed to this. I think with a new batch of players, Terry would have turned us round and gotten us back to the top four in the SPFL fairly quickly. Now we have had to shell out to sack him, and we'll probably get a cheap option in as a replacement. And Petrie is still at the club, and Dempster herself said the decision was made after a meeting with Petrie yesterday, so he is clearly still heavily involved whatever he says. Clearly he wants it to look like her decision, and that is why there has been such a delay. He is is a coward.

I am so angry with the club now on so many levels, but I'm going to stop now before i get chucked off Hibs.net for saying too much. One thing's for sure, I'm not going near Easter Road again till Petrie goes. Today's actions have made my mind up.

Unseen work
10-06-2014, 03:22 PM
Maybe he said he wanted to go?

On the subject of Thomson, I liked him as a player but am happy that the new manager will be picking his own senior players (mostly), and won't be having to deal with many disgruntled players left over from former managers. That hasn't worked out for us in the past.

Understand what your saying but IMO u can't see much managers not wanting to have a player like Kevin Thomson in this league

J-C
10-06-2014, 03:22 PM
Michael Stewart‏@mstewart_23 26m (https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/476374173221400576) Butcher gone it had to happen. @LeeannDempster (https://twitter.com/LeeannDempster) clearly made that decision as well. TB killed youngsters and football while there. Who now

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Michael Stewart did say on sportsound that Butcher would either be a great success or an absolute disaster, he obviously knew a few more in and outs about how TB and Malpas worked to make that statement.

Keith_M
10-06-2014, 03:23 PM
We're in deeper **** than I thought! :greengrin


Beat it you!!!!



:na na:

Lucius Apuleius
10-06-2014, 03:23 PM
Unbelievable, a couple of weeks ago most people saying the whole shebang should go from Petrie down. Now every time someone is booted its the wrong decision according to some. Get rid ofthe bloody lot of them. I also have no worries about Petrie being involved. In myopinion it is only right that the person who hired him it's present at his dismissal whilst he still has a position in the club. The fact he has to go as well is immaterial at the minute.

AlbertK86
10-06-2014, 03:23 PM
Anyone else think Petrie might be trying to appease the fans a bit to get us off his back a little? Thank god tho - sorry butcher all the best for the future n that but I'm glad your not our manger anymore.

As he always does

KING ROD GTF

brog
10-06-2014, 03:24 PM
A few days ago I was looking at MM's managerial record. Truly appalling, sacked after one season at Motherwell ( finished 10th! ) & at Swindon. His one season at Well was when we beat them 6-1 on their ground, that season we won all 3 games vs them scoring 11 & conceding 2. Interestingly in that one season Well also only won one game in the last 3 months! MM's been living off TB ever since, he's now practically unemployable, with the exception of the SFA!

archiebald
10-06-2014, 03:25 PM
What a mess,but hey ho that's what most fans wanted again

Baader
10-06-2014, 03:25 PM
Had to happen. Had to go as much to unify the support for what is a huge campaign ahead. LD would have known this regardless of what she thought about Butchers ability to get us back up. A disasterous appointment. Good riddance

davy malcolm
10-06-2014, 03:28 PM
I am so angry right now. Terry has had an appalling start, but Petrie and all his duff managerial appointments have contributed to this. I think with a new batch of players, Terry would have turned us round and gotten us back to the top four in the SPFL fairly quickly. Now we have had to shell out to sack him, and we'll probably get a cheap option in as a replacement. And Petrie is still at the club, and Dempster herself said the decision was made after a meeting with Petrie yesterday, so he is clearly still heavily involved whatever he says. Clearly he wants it to look like her decision, and that is why there has been such a delay. He is is a coward.

I am so angry with the club now on so many levels, but I'm going to stop now before i get chucked off Hibs.net for saying too much. One thing's for sure, I'm not going near Easter Road again till Petrie goes. Today's actions have made my mind up.

Totally agree I have not renewed but I will when rod walks

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

TowerHibs
10-06-2014, 03:28 PM
Those asking why TB was allowed to make these decisions should listen to LD interviews last week.

She was still employed by motherwell and was not in role. This should have been Petrie's job to tell Butcher to hang fire and wait til LD had spoken to him. I know for a fact that one player was told we can't afford him and to find a new club. He has instructed his agent to look (who is medals mackay btw). Then same players gets a call from LD on Friday to say he is wanted and won't be leaving.

Someone jumped the gun by releasing the players. or in my eye, noone had the brain to stop Butcher and think LD would have kept him

Further mismanagement from Petrie and since the golden generation have left he has done nothing but waste OUR money. How he thinks he can stay is beyond me

J-C
10-06-2014, 03:29 PM
I can't for the life of me understand why there are so many coming on here feeling sorry for TB, he took a mediocre team and made them the worst in the league, the stories coming out of ER are truly amazing and some of you people are unhappy and sad he's left, well good ****ing riddance to the dinosaur and his 2 cronies.

Sir David Gray
10-06-2014, 03:33 PM
I'm a bit more enthusiastic about the future now that we have Leeann Dempster on board however I'll say what I said seven months ago when Fenlon left which is that nothing much will be achieved until Petrie is out of the club.

How can we have had so many failed management appointments (this new guy, whoever it may be, will be our eighth manager in the last ten years) and the man at the top of the club for all those years remains at the club?

I have no feelings either way towards Butcher, although it's hard to defend his position given the sort of run we have had over the last four or five months.

We're now in for yet another period of transition and we need one of those like a hole in the head.

Eternal Hibbie
10-06-2014, 03:35 PM
;);)
Those asking why TB was allowed to make these decisions should listen to LD interviews last week.

She was still employed by motherwell and was not in role. This should have been Petrie's job to tell Butcher to hang fire and wait til LD had spoken to him. I know for a fact that one player was told we can't afford him and to find a new club. He has instructed his agent to look (who is medals mackay btw). Then same players gets a call from LD on Friday to say he is wanted and won't be leaving.

Someone jumped the gun by releasing the players. or in my eye, noone had the brain to stop Butcher and think LD would have kept him

Further mismanagement from Petrie and since the golden generation have left he has done nothing but waste OUR money. How he thinks he can stay is beyond me
Are you thinking of changing your user-name ?

Golden Bear
10-06-2014, 03:37 PM
Quelle surprise but a very welcome one at that!

Whoever comes in has certainly got a job in his hands to sign an entire squad of players then get them playing as a unit with a realistic chance of winning the Championship. It's a very tall order in such a short space of time.

blackpoolhibs
10-06-2014, 03:38 PM
Ah ffs that will mean Titus Bramble wont be coming now. :bye::party::applause::applause::LOL::cheers::part yhibb

TowerHibs
10-06-2014, 03:41 PM
;);)
Are you thinking of changing your user-name ?

Christ...didn't even think of that!!!

Any suggestions?
Butcherslastnail?

greenpaper55
10-06-2014, 03:41 PM
Ah ffs that will mean Titus Bramble wont be coming now. :bye::party::applause::applause::LOL::cheers::part yhibb

:faf: Phew !.

Islington Hibs
10-06-2014, 03:50 PM
Chairman Rod Petrie and Chief Executive Leeann Dempster met with Terry yesterday. The Board met this morning and after a full discussion unanimously agreed the course of action.

The Chairman said that Leeann will now lead the process to find a new Manager to take the Club forward in what promises to be a challenging season.

Sadly I think it the right decision but I am alarmed that the chairman still says this and the chairman that. I have no doubt LeeAnn had a big say but it is alarming who (having made the decision to bring Butcher in) still seems to be back seat driving. He is not welcome and should do the honourable thing and resign.

Greencore
10-06-2014, 03:51 PM
Big mistake. It wasn't his players, had to get one full season with us. The way he had ict play with his own signings was great. Goodbye supper scout steve. Whoever we get in the fans won't be happy. Terry had experience in both leagues and this nation. Who is better then him? Mother manager? He won't come to Hibs, no way. Terrible decision. This time next year we will have the same situation sack another manager.... More money down the drain. And of you were a manager would you come to Hibs? No chance. Let's get Ian Murray in! He had lack of experience then butcher but hey he's Ian Murray...

Unseen work
10-06-2014, 03:57 PM
I agree it wasn't his players but look at managers that have went places with the exact same players and made a massive difference

Gordon Strachan at Scotland is the main one

trev the hat
10-06-2014, 04:02 PM
Delighted with this news & fully expected it after recent events, now let's remove Mgivern & Nelson ASAP
Now Owen Coyle for me with no compo required as opposed to previous choice McCall

Golden Bear
10-06-2014, 04:05 PM
Delighted with this news & fully expected it after recent events, now let's remove Mgivern & Nelson ASAP
Now Owen Coyle for me with no compo required as opposed to previous choice McCall

:agree:


How Mcgivern retained his place week in, week out is one of life's mysteries. Ultimately it may have cost Butcher his job.

Franck Stanton
10-06-2014, 04:07 PM
Can someone get round quickly to the club shop and see who is currently in there. That'll be the guy for the job me thinks. That is the way it works isn't it?

My thoughts exactly.

Jaymz
10-06-2014, 04:07 PM
The right decision IMO. THought he would do good for us when first appointed. Even though the team was pants. However failed to deliver big time. New start needed all round.

--------
10-06-2014, 04:07 PM
Chairman Rod Petrie and Chief Executive Leeann Dempster met with Terry yesterday. The Board met this morning and after a full discussion unanimously agreed the course of action.

The Chairman said that Leeann will now lead the process to find a new Manager to take the Club forward in what promises to be a challenging season.

Sadly I think it the right decision but I am alarmed that the chairman still says this and the chairman that. I have no doubt LeeAnn had a big say but it is alarming who (having made the decision to bring Butcher in) still seems to be back seat driving. He is not welcome and should do the honourable thing and resign.


YES. :agree:

Lucius Apuleius
10-06-2014, 04:08 PM
Chairman Rod Petrie and Chief Executive Leeann Dempster met with Terry yesterday. The Board met this morning and after a full discussion unanimously agreed the course of action.

The Chairman said that Leeann will now lead the process to find a new Manager to take the Club forward in what promises to be a challenging season.

Sadly I think it the right decision but I am alarmed that the chairman still says this and the chairman that. I have no doubt LeeAnn had a big say but it is alarming who (having made the decision to bring Butcher in) still seems to be back seat driving. He is not welcome and should do the honourable thing and resign.

The fact the chairman has a say in his removal worries me not a whit. He should have no say in the appointment of the successor. LD should also appoint him before signing up for hibs.net and totally ignore any suggestions from here. In fact I shall be delighted if the first thread we see on here after the appointment is one of dismay with everyone disappointed.

Gustavo Fring
10-06-2014, 04:14 PM
petrie should have been 1st out the door

the fact that he is still here , still firing people is sickening

Gordy M
10-06-2014, 04:19 PM
petrie should have been 1st out the door

the fact that he is still here , still firing people is sickening
So it was RP that fired him, 5 days after LD arrived? Why not do it before she arrived then? I want RP to go, but i think we have to give LD the chance to prove she is making the decisions and i think she has made this decision.

Bob Box Fish
10-06-2014, 04:20 PM
Awesome

Wellbankhibby
10-06-2014, 04:21 PM
That doesn't bother me.

I am pretty sure there are quite a number of Hibs fans who are dissapointed in this decision. We need stability at the club. yes he made some poor decisions but lets be honest the so called players should be ashamed of themselves. In my opinion they were very unprofessional. Your not telling me that they gave a t*** about beating Hamilton at ER. Its happened now but it wont matter who is the new boss if he loses a few games half of the support will want him out as well. As for Ian Murray its far too early to have him as Manager we need someone strong with good man-management skills.
Perhaps a Hibs Manager in the future but not for now. :flag:

hibby67
10-06-2014, 04:25 PM
see ya .....:bye::bye::bye:

just not good enough... even though they were not his players he should have got more out of them,
might have given him a chance if we were bottom when he took over. but we had a healthy lead over 11th place at the time so had to go

Criswell
10-06-2014, 04:29 PM
Don't agree with this decision. After being relegated with ICT he took them straight back up again and established them as a top 6 side challanging for honours and Europe. All this on a miniscule budget!

I really don't know where we go from here. The season starts in about 7 weeks and in that time we have to appoint a manager and he in turn has to identify and recruit the players needed to get us out of this division. The farce that is Hibernian Football Club shows no sign of ending!

schinkenotto
10-06-2014, 04:37 PM
Don't think so. Maybe having paid TB and the gang off we maybe looking at a manager that won't cost us compensation.

Would maybe prefer a foreign manager with a different approach.

Looks like our search for players will be on the back burner once again. A week or so to install a new manager doesn't leave much time??
Why should Butcher get compensation? He was a total failure on every count.

Jack Hackett
10-06-2014, 04:40 PM
Christ...didn't even think of that!!!

Any suggestions?
Butcherslastnail?

How about 'ButchersHook"?

Aldo
10-06-2014, 04:40 PM
Why should Butcher get compensation? He was a total failure on every count.

If he's been sacked then there will be compensation of some description. Unfortunately that's how it works.

Who knows what really has happen but he's not here so we may or may not take a hit??

Unseen work
10-06-2014, 04:42 PM
I can see the new manager keeping than mcgivern tbh

ionahibby
10-06-2014, 04:46 PM
Anybody know what happened in the press conference?

erskine-hibby
10-06-2014, 04:47 PM
Didn't want this to happen, but now it has we need someone in ASAP, we need to get players in and ready for next season... that's if there is any money left after paying TB and probably the rest of his staff off.
It will be interesting to see if there is an uptake of STs, after all, Petrie is still there.

TornadoHibby
10-06-2014, 04:47 PM
If he's been sacked then there will be compensation of some description. Unfortunately that's how it works.

Who knows what really has happen but he's not here so we may or may not take a hit??

Depends upon the contract how much and when it will get paid! :agree:

No need for it to be paid as a lump sum in the current climate from a club that can ill afford to do so! :wink:

I imagine that the contract will be tight on this bearing in mind that we have a top employment lawyer on the Board! :wink: :agree:

blackpoolhibs
10-06-2014, 04:48 PM
Don't agree with this decision. After being relegated with ICT he took them straight back up again and established them as a top 6 side challanging for honours and Europe. All this on a miniscule budget!

I really don't know where we go from here. The season starts in about 7 weeks and in that time we have to appoint a manager and he in turn has to identify and recruit the players needed to get us out of this division. The farce that is Hibernian Football Club shows no sign of ending!

Whats your view on the rest of his illustrious managerial career?

Aldo
10-06-2014, 04:49 PM
Depends upon the contract how much and when it will get paid! :agree: No need for it to be paid as a lump sum in the current climate from a club that can ill afford to do so! :wink: I imagine that the contract will be tight on this bearing in mind that we have a top employment lawyer on the Board! :wink: :agree:

Matters in hand then TH!!

Aldo
10-06-2014, 04:52 PM
Don't agree with this decision. After being relegated with ICT he took them straight back up again and established them as a top 6 side challanging for honours and Europe. All this on a miniscule budget! I really don't know where we go from here. The season starts in about 7 weeks and in that time we have to appoint a manager and he in turn has to identify and recruit the players needed to get us out of this division. The farce that is Hibernian Football Club shows no sign of ending!

We've turned a small corner. Just need to get shot of Petrie and we'll be doing even better. I am certain that this hadn't been done without a bit of thought from LD and as others have mentioned the new man may if been spoken to and his list of players handed over already??

Butcher had to go.

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 04:53 PM
I am pretty sure there are quite a number of Hibs fans who are dissapointed in this decision. We need stability at the club. yes he made some poor decisions but lets be honest the so called players should be ashamed of themselves. In my opinion they were very unprofessional. Your not telling me that they gave a t*** about beating Hamilton at ER. Its happened now but it wont matter who is the new boss if he loses a few games half of the support will want him out as well. As for Ian Murray its far too early to have him as Manager we need someone strong with good man-management skills.
Perhaps a Hibs Manager in the future but not for now. :flag:

No way do i want him as manager of Hibs.............. Yet

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 04:57 PM
Petrie will be thinking this news will help move season tickets when in reality it's Petrie going out the door that will sell season tickets.

PETRIE OUT NOW!!!!!!:protest::protest::grr::grr:

weonlywon6-2
10-06-2014, 04:58 PM
Michael Stewart ‏@mstewart_23 26m (https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/476374173221400576) Butcher gone it had to happen. @LeeannDempster (https://twitter.com/LeeannDempster) clearly made that decision as well. TB killed youngsters and football while there. Who now

:shocked::shocked::shocked:


Im guessing this is the mikey stewart that played for us?

Hes got a good point

emerald green
10-06-2014, 04:59 PM
It was the correct and only decision IMO. How anyone would want Butcher & Malpas to remain in charge at ER after they presided over the most horrendous sequence of results, and "style" of football, I have ever seen at HFC resulting in a catastrophic relegation, is beyond belief.

I also have to say that some of the players under their charge were either 1) not good enough, 2) not giving 100% effort for reasons they themselves will know deep down, or 3) not suited to Butcher's way of playing, whatever that was. Hoofball anyone? Possibly a bit of all three I suspect.

It's easy to be clever in hindsight. I was one of many who thought/hoped Butcher's appointment was a good one. However, it has turned out to be yet another catastrophic failure of an appointment by Petrie. Why this should have happened again at ER I really don't know. I do not buy this argument that Hibs fans are too demanding. That's complete nonsense. If anything, Hibs fans have put up with too much s*** for far too long. Football fans worldwide will criticise their team when it's crap and losing every week.

It's up to STF as to whether Petrie goes too now, but I cannot see that happening in the foreseeable future. Maybe a wee while further down the line that might happen, but in the meantime I would urge all Hibs supporters give LD their full backing as she tries to repair the damage done at this club. IMO she has started off really well.

WhileTheChief..
10-06-2014, 05:01 PM
Probably one of the easier decions that LD will make whilst at Hibs.

Well chuffed with both LD and RP on this one.

New league, new players and new manager. Exciting stuff ahead :)

Hermit Crab
10-06-2014, 05:03 PM
Probably one of the easier decions that LD will make whilst at Hibs.

Well chuffed with both LD and RP on this one.

New league, new players and new manager. Exciting stuff ahead :)


Well chuffed that we will now have to use thousands of pounds in severence packages for the management team?? :confused: Money that could and should have been used to buy in players

weecounty hibby
10-06-2014, 05:06 PM
Well chuffed that we will now have to use thousands of pounds in severence packages for the management team?? :confused: Money that could and should have been used to buy in players
You don't know that though. If Hibs board has any sense there will be clauses in the contracts of TB, MM and SM that if relegated they will be entitled to very little in pay offs. I would fully expect that to be the case

Hibernia Na Eir
10-06-2014, 05:07 PM
stv news just headlined the sacking. Diabolical made up report. WTF was that all about? !!

HibbiesandtheBaddies
10-06-2014, 05:07 PM
Jamie Borthwick, reporter on STV news.

What a shambles :faf:

jimmyboco1875
10-06-2014, 05:08 PM
stv news just headlined the sacking. Diabolical made up report. WTF was that all about? !!

What was said

Sumner
10-06-2014, 05:10 PM
Jamie Borthwick, reporter on STV news.

What a shambles :faf:

Stuttered more than the old "Stu-Stu-Studio Line" advert
.. had the nerves really bad.. Petrie will give him a job on that performance

PETRIE OUT

Dave-O
10-06-2014, 05:11 PM
I was happy when he was appointed manager tbh, but what an unmitigated disaster he's been, Leeann dinnae listen to us, you pick the next manager hen. :wink:



#petrieout

HibbiesandtheBaddies
10-06-2014, 05:27 PM
Stuttered more than the old "Stu-Stu-Studio Line" advert
.. had the nerves really bad.. Petrie will give him a job on that performance

PETRIE OUT

looks like he's been subbied....

but the replacement cannae look straight at the camera...

madhatter
10-06-2014, 06:03 PM
I'm just in - what did Leeann say? Is it likely to be on STV player or something or does someone have link? Cheers.

HKhibby
10-06-2014, 06:21 PM
Ridiculous decision. Merry go round of managers continues to turn.

It is a ridiculas merry go round of managers!...who does she have in mind? who will come to a championship team? maybe she has done her homework already but i cant imagine there are many candidates out there willing to give it a try...maybe Mcleish, thats my first choice but it wont happen!

Lago
10-06-2014, 06:26 PM
So Terrys been butchered, now a new management team to be recruited, substantial number of new players to be recruited, players to be molded into a winning team, all in 7 weeks I can see this all ending ina bucket full of tears.

eastterrace
10-06-2014, 06:28 PM
So Terrys been butchered, now a new management team to be recruited, substantial number of new players to be recruited, players to be molded into a winning team, all in 7 weeks I can see this all ending ina bucket full of tears.

well its was going to end in tears with butcher the dud in charge anyway.

Lago
10-06-2014, 06:44 PM
well its was going to end in tears with butcher the dud in charge anyway.
Guess that makes it all ok then