Logical conclusion.....Butcher going

[Forza Fred]

Aftera period of inactivity on both transfer and management news accompanied byMs Dempster diplomatically avoiding the question on Butcher's future, thankfully the only logical conclusion I can draw is that he will get his P45 next week.

While I will be delighted to see the back of him, it leaves us only a short time to recruit a manager and get a team in place for the start of the season .

Question is.....who can we get/will come and do it?

[SuperAllyMcleod]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

[Scouse Hibee]

If he goes I hope he resigns at no cost to the club, now that would be ideal.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

At the end of the day he will either stay, or go.

[Forza Fred]

At the end of the day he will either stay, or go.

which day?:rolleyes:

[Iain G]

Given how little of last seasons squad is still with us, and that most of our transfer targets won't be interesting in dropping down to the championship, does it make any difference in offloading the management team? Fresh start all round may help the healing process. Unless Terry actually does have signing targets lined up who are still willing to come to ER, otherwise a new manager is rummaging around over the next 8 weeks trying to build a team...

[LancsHibs]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

If your right then that's her 1st big mistake!!

[Diclonius]

which day?:rolleyes:

All of them.

[hibeejeebies]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

Very true Mr McLeod and most, myself included, would agree. However if TB & Co were to be punted, and (God forbid) it all goes t!ts up again with someone else, can you envisage yourself ever saying "if only we'd stuck with Butcher..."?

[HFC 0-7]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

Thats risky IMO, we need someone focused on the job at hand, not someone that is unsure. If you need convincing then you are not the right person. The scale of rebuilding, is a bigger task than ever before as we have to get the numbers and quality up. Signings need to start now, as if what's been wrote on .net about players being told they can find new clubs, the manager won't actually know the scale of rebuilding required.

i would want a committed manager, sure of what he is going to do, not someone that needs convincing.

[The Green Goblin]

I just watched her interview.

The fact that she didn't categorically say that TB was the manager said a lot. Her body language was also a wee bit unsettled/restless when she answered that question. I would say it's undecided. She did refer to the emotion/atmosphere post Hamilton game as being difficult, so I would guess that her and TB agreed to let some dust settle and give themselves time to have a calmer think about things before meeting to discuss it again. This would also give her a few days to suss out more about the club.

Very very impressed with her. And good luck to her.

[Nutmegged]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

The whole "we cant keep changing managers" point is one I was actively promoting before Relegation, however, if it wasn't abundantly clear beforehand it is now that Terry Butcher is an extraordinarily poor manager and was the number one factor in us losing pur Premiership place, some people say we cant keep changing managers, others will say if we keep knowingly going down the wrong road it'll tske us even longer yo get back on the right track.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Whilst I agree we cannot continue to dump managers the way we have in recent seasons the fact remains that Butcher took over a struggling mid table team and turned them into a relegation side, no mean feat. He canot moan if sacked. A big decision to be made by our new CEO.

[Onion]

If there is or was any chance whatsoever of Butcher resigning and us getting rid of him at no cost, we should jump at the chance. I also thought her response to the question threw some doubt over Butcher's future. Hopefully this time next week, he'll be gone.

[TornadoHibby]

Very true Mr McLeod and most, myself included, would agree. However if TB & Co were to be punted, and (God forbid) it all goes t!ts up again with someone else, can you envisage yourself ever saying "if only we'd stuck with Butcher..."?

Definitely not, he did nothing whilst "managing" the team last season, and I use that term very loosely, to suggest that has the slightest clue how to build or manage a good team successfully!

Would never be disappointed or regretful if a new team management was brought in capable of getting the right players in and getting them playing good entertaining skillful football which would win most matches!

[patch1875]

I think butcher is getting interviewed for the job again, if he doesn't fit in with the ceo's vision he will get punted.

butcher appears to be very old school and I feel/hope he going to flunk it. It's time to embrace leann as the new boss and move on from the Petrie stuff she has a plan to build the club again on her terms and we don't have time on our side in getting it started.

[Leith Green]

My school of thought is that Dempster will want to show that she is the one making the decisions, if butcher was axed immediately after her arrival, then it would look like it wasnt her choice. I think Butcher will go, and i expect us to announce/ make clear a footballing vision/ethos for the club, i think our new manager will have to fit into this frame rather than the other way around.

If this is correct then fair play to her, as it shows people early doors that she is the boss, whilst also spelling out what she wants the playing side of the club to be all about.

Fingers crossed because with butcher in charge we are quite clearly never going to produce the type of football we want to be associated with going forward. Throw into the mix the fact that next season with butcher in charge, we are 2 or 3 bad results away from more carnage. Dempster isn't daft, she will know this, and i think its all about timing on this one. If that is correct then id be amazed if didn't have someone else lined up already.

[jimmyboco1875]

I think butcher is getting interviewed for the job again, if he doesn't fit in with the ceo's vision he will get punted.

butcher appears to be very old school and I feel/hope he going to flunk it. It's time to embrace leann as the new boss and move on from the Petrie stuff she has a plan to build the club again on her terms and we don't have time on our side in getting it started.
I said those exact words to my mate yesterday

[southsider]

Given the £500,000 parashoot payment added to the 4 hea7ts/ the range7s games i think it is not vital we return to the top league in one season, although that would be nice. I would therefore go for a young guy, perhaps Ian Murray to rebuild the club and start playing good football again. The fans may just return in their numbers if we do this and Petrie does one.

[Yuillsy]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.
I agree we need to stop changing managers. In this instance though it could be perfect.
Butcher has emptied every single player whose contract was up. Other than 7 or 8 players a new manager would effectively have a clean slate and would more or less be able to build his preferred team straight away. Previous managers have only had the chance to add a few players to the existing deadwood.
If Butcher keeps his job so be it, we just have to get behind him and trust him to build a decent squad however a new manager may see this as a great chance to really put his stamp on a new team.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

Did you attend many games this season? I think in the majority of cases the support has been more than patient and supportive right up til the final playoff game. We gave them time to ignite something and stated with them in the main but they came up short. Repeatedly. And then some.

[AlbertK86]

Butcher just been interviewed on SSN re England World Cup chances.

No mention of Hibs

Find it strange he is prepared to be interviewed re England but not a peep from him about the Hibs since the day after relegation.

Gagged ?

[macca70]

He'll be on holiday, no signings or manager sackings will happen until he returns, hence the inactivity.

[AlbertK86]

He'll be on holiday, no signings or manager sackings will happen until he returns, hence the inactivity.

He was in an indoor football facility with what looked like kids games going on in background

Not sure if he has kids that might have been taking part

[clerriehibs]

The whole "we cant keep changing managers" point is one I was actively promoting before Relegation, however, if it wasn't abundantly clear beforehand it is now that Terry Butcher is an extraordinarily poor manager and was the number one factor in us losing pur Premiership place, some people say we cant keep changing managers, others will say if we keep knowingly going down the wrong road it'll tske us even longer yo get back on the right track.

This.

Most of our mgmt changes have been premature, all due in part to fan pressure, a malicious MSM and Petrie's inability to hold firm.

Butcher going now, however, is exactly the right time. That group of players should have kept us mid-table. Butcher absolutely does not have it tactically, and if the players weren't motivated, he's no man-motivator either.

Begone, Butcher.

[truehibernian]

The minute I saw Jack Ross at a couple of games and then Nid and JR together at the Killie game, my money was/is on that being our new management team - absolutely nothing has changed my opinion.

It would also be in keeping with the new broom, 'breath of fresh air' and the football plan/philosophy - Murray wants his team playing attacking football which is reflected in them being second top scorers in the league - mind Hamilton scored 10 in one game so they would have finished top. Defensive record wasn't great, but if you score more than the opposition you win the 3 points.

Ian will be our new boss - I am certain of it.

[macca70]

He was in an indoor football facility with what looked like kids games going on in background

Not sure if he has kids that might have been taking part

With being such a big English Football icon I would imagine he probably gets involved in other footy orientated stuff even in his own time.

Every club in Britain will have broken up until players return for pre season end of June/July

[erin go bragh]

Its a hard one imo . Butcher has managed in the very league were now in . Winning it with ICT . Granted there was no The Rangers or Hearts in it . So do we stick with him or go with a new man . No one wants Hibs to play football the way it should be played more than me , but to get out of this league first time of asking ,a league which is going to be a dog fight imo .might just suit TB . Then we part company with TB and get someone in who plays football the way it should be played .

Ggtth

[Callum_62]

The minute I saw Jack Ross at a couple of games and then Nid and JR together at the Killie game, my money was/is on that being our new management team - absolutely nothing has changed my opinion.

Ian will be our new boss - I am certain of it.

I really really really hope you're wrong

[Pretty Boy]

I've said for sometime that we need to give a manager time to build the team again. It's not an overnight job but there has to be a noticeable improvement quickly, especially next season. That hasn't happened lately.

However whilst giving a manager time is important, I've also argued it is folly to persist with the wrong manager too long. I felt Fenlon should have gone after the Celtic cup final, he could have left with his head held high. I feel Butcher should go now. He seems to have alienated almost every player at the club. If we are going to focus on club philosophies and elite academies then Butcher isn't the man to facilitate that. We need to make the change quickly.

[truehibernian]

I really really really hope you're wrong

Why as a matter of interest ? I think you might be disappointed

[nribs]

which day?:rolleyes:

Every day :)

[Callum_62]

Why as a matter of interest ? I think you might be disappointed


I want Butcher to stay - but will understand if he goes

Nothing against Ian, but I think this job is too soon for him

If Butcher goes, I have no clue who we should appoint, but I think Murray is too inexperienced at this point

[jacomo]

Given the £500,000 parashoot payment added to the 4 hea7ts/ the range7s games i think it is not vital we return to the top league in one season, although that would be nice. I would therefore go for a young guy, perhaps Ian Murray to rebuild the club and start playing good football again. The fans may just return in their numbers if we do this and Petrie does one.

What happens when the parachute payment stops?

We need to get out of the Championship at the first time of asking.

[Turkish Green]

Given the £500,000 parashoot payment added to the 4 hea7ts/ the range7s games i think it is not vital we return to the top league in one season, although that would be nice. I would therefore go for a young guy, perhaps Ian Murray to rebuild the club and start playing good football again. The fans may just return in their numbers if we do this and Petrie does one.
Very much this.

no point in retaining TB just because it would mean getting rid of another manager.

I would appoint the promising Murray and give him 2 seasons to get back to Premiership.



PETRIE OUT

[truehibernian]

I want Butcher to stay - but will understand if he goes

Nothing against Ian, but I think this job is too soon for him

If Butcher goes, I have no clue who we should appoint, but I think Murray is too inexperienced at this point

I hate the phrase 'lost the dressing room' but it is abundantly clear that Butcher has lost the players, those that are gone and those that remain - Malpas has not helped the situation with his crowd interaction, Marsella's face and demeanour sums up the mood of the whole place - glum and uninteresting.

I think what you get with Ian is 'smarts' - both on and off the field. He has handled himself really well in the media last season and clearly developed a respect from the pundits. That is important in this day and age. He looks the part - for me appearance is everything. Ian looks professional at all times. He is completing his badges and he has had a season and a half in the league we are in - he knows the teams, knows the grounds, knows the managers.

In his career he has played under some very good successful managers - McLeish (who he rates the highest), Walter Smith, Mowbray.....he's also been quoted as saying that berating players all the time is unecessary, pointless and counter productive - which means he is rational.

His playing career tells you that he worked hard, despite injury, and was respected amongst his peers.

His CV for me is perfect - he is a modern manager for the modern era of football, and if we are developing a football plan we need a progressive manager. The fact he also supports Arsenal I can forgive :greengrin

[Col2]

Butcher just been interviewed on SSN re England World Cup chances.

No mention of Hibs

Find it strange he is prepared to be interviewed re England but not a peep from him about the Hibs since the day after relegation.

Gagged ?

Just seen that and chocked on my cornflakes. "Very excited about the teams chances, young team and think they will do well". Except he was talking about England and was with Graeme Le Saux at some indoor training thing (looks FA related). Might be in his own time (eg holiday) but cant believe first time we hear from our current manager two weeks after relegation is nothing to do with who pays him.

Another reason IMHO that it is only matter of time its announced he is away - hopefully tomorrow.

[Turkish Green]

I want Butcher to stay - but will understand if he goes

Nothing against Ian, but I think this job is too soon for him

If Butcher goes, I have no clue who we should appoint, but I think Murray is too inexperienced at this point
I hate making comparisons with the other side of the city but when Levein was first appointed (as a cost saving measure after Jefferies blew the budget trying to buy success) he was young, stopped playing early due to injury and had only been managing Cowdenbeath for a couple of years.

i feel Murray has the potential to be a great manager and he will have the experienced LD to help with the off-field responsibilities.

Of course it is a gamble but how many on here voted for TB as being the right man to replace PF, and look how that ended up.



PETRIE OUT

[hibeejeebies]

Its a hard one imo . Butcher has managed in the very league were now in . Winning it with ICT . Granted there was no The Rangers or Hearts in it . So do we stick with him or go with a new man . No one wants Hibs to play football the way it should be played more than me , but to get out of this league first time of asking ,a league which is going to be a dog fight imo .might just suit TB . Then we part company with TB and get someone in who plays football the way it should be played .

Ggtth

I take your point EGB but the thought of letting Butcher recruit a team full of bruisers makes me want to put my laptop in the freezer and never think about football again.

[Vini1875]

I agree that TB and co need to go, but IM just not have enough experience to handle a club which is the turmoil we are in. Rod Petrie won't go which means an ongoing battle between fans and board. The pressure to win this league will be intense and if there is a slide or losing ground then the fans will ramp up that pressure. To me IM is still learning and has done very well, but I would be looking for him to have out grown Dumbarton by the time he comes to Hibs.

I hope TB goes but not be surprised if Hibs fudge this one.

[Turkish Green]

Just seen that and chocked on my cornflakes. "Very excited about the teams chances, young team and think they will do well". Except he was talking about England and was with Graeme Le Saux at some indoor training thing (looks FA related). Might be in his own time (eg holiday) but cant believe first time we hear from our current manager two weeks after relegation is nothing to do with who pays him.

Another reason IMHO that it is only matter of time its announced he is away - hopefully tomorrow.
I agree. All signs are that he's gone. Unless the extended England trip was already agreed and planned with RP back in the season before it all went pear shaped. But even if TB was off on WC duties, wouldn't MM be seen around the place.

I was originally in the RP OUT - TB IN camp but after two weeks I am now firmly of the OUT - OUT view.



PETRIE OUT

[NOLA]

The minute I saw Jack Ross at a couple of games and then Nid and JR together at the Killie game, my money was/is on that being our new management team - absolutely nothing has changed my opinion.

It would also be in keeping with the new broom, 'breath of fresh air' and the football plan/philosophy - Murray wants his team playing attacking football which is reflected in them being second top scorers in the league - mind Hamilton scored 10 in one game so they would have finished top. Defensive record wasn't great, but if you score more than the opposition you win the 3 points.

Ian will be our new boss - I am certain of it.



He just signed a new contract with dumbarton.

[Pretty Boy]

I agree. All signs are that he's gone. Unless the extended England trip was already agreed and planned with RP back in the season before it all went pear shaped. But even if TB was off on WC duties, wouldn't MM be seen around the place.

I was originally in the RP OUT - TB IN camp but after two weeks I am now firmly of the OUT - OUT view.



PETRIE OUT

TB is on holiday at the moment, his family went without him as he stayed behind due to the play offs, he joined them later. That was confirmed yesterday. He's due back tomorrow to meet LD.

[Heedersnvolleys]

I agree. All signs are that he's gone. Unless the extended England trip was already agreed and planned with RP back in the season before it all went pear shaped. But even if TB was off on WC duties, wouldn't MM be seen around the place.

I was originally in the RP OUT - TB IN camp but after two weeks I am now firmly of the OUT - OUT view.



PETRIE OUT
Was he even asked about Hibs though? I find it strange they had stuff on the protest all day and then get the manager of said club but don't ask him about. Or they are so blinded by the World Cup they forgot.

[madhatter]

Was he even asked about Hibs though? I find it strange they had stuff on the protest all day and then get the manager of said club but don't ask him about. Or they are so blinded by the World Cup they forgot.

Blinded by World Cup? Yes. Media coverage of the World Cup will solely focus on that and be biased. Prepare to hear a lot of that was a slightly mistimed tackle by England player, yellow at most (shown a red rightly). Then when someone tackles Gerrard, that's a red as it was a shocking tackle (yellow rightfully given). Shows how the media coverage is when you've got them acting smart during a thunderstorm and treating American organisers like idiots on live TV. Oh during a friendly as well.

[Allant1981]

I think TB will be gone and i think it will screw us up even more, im wasnt huge fan of butchers tactics last year like many others but if he goes just now it will probably be another couple of weeks before someone comes in and i just dont think that is enough time to get a strong squad together.

[greenpaper55]

A new man might be lined up already if Butcher is to go, also i don't think the yams are in a much better place than us player wise.

[JimBHibees]

I hate the phrase 'lost the dressing room' but it is abundantly clear that Butcher has lost the players, those that are gone and those that remain - Malpas has not helped the situation with his crowd interaction, Marsella's face and demeanour sums up the mood of the whole place - glum and uninteresting.

I think what you get with Ian is 'smarts' - both on and off the field. He has handled himself really well in the media last season and clearly developed a respect from the pundits. That is important in this day and age. He looks the part - for me appearance is everything. Ian looks professional at all times. He is completing his badges and he has had a season and a half in the league we are in - he knows the teams, knows the grounds, knows the managers.

In his career he has played under some very good successful managers - McLeish (who he rates the highest), Walter Smith, Mowbray.....he's also been quoted as saying that berating players all the time is unecessary, pointless and counter productive - which means he is rational.

His playing career tells you that he worked hard, despite injury, and was respected amongst his peers.

His CV for me is perfect - he is a modern manager for the modern era of football, and if we are developing a football plan we need a progressive manager. The fact he also supports Arsenal I can forgive :greengrin

Assuming Jack Ross is Murray's assistant at present.

[Turkish Green]

To plagiarise the words of Hall & Oats - HE'S GONE.


PETRIE OUT

[DC_Hibs]

He just signed a new contract with dumbarton.

He'd be daft not to have a clause or two in that contract based on the success he had last season.

Anyway, with major squad rebuilding work needed this summer and an early start to next season we wouldn't delay bulleting Butcher for more than 2 weeks. We're stuck with him unfortunately....for now.

[truehibernian]

He just signed a new contract with dumbarton.

I know, but that will mean nothing when Hibs call - I'd think about it this way - if you succeed in getting Hibs promoted, this season, after years of mediocrity and turmoil, how high is your managerial stock going to be. It's a gamble for sure, but think about the potential from a managerial career point of view ? Two or three years at Hibs, turning them around.......you've made your bones and much bigger sides would come calling. Scotland is a small pool and there are bigger riches out there, and bigger jobs - Hibs for IM is perfect in my opinion, and he would turn us around I'm certain of it.

[skipster7]

I hate the phrase 'lost remember Ian Murraydressing room' but it is abundantly clear that Butcher has lost the players, those that are gone and those that remain - Malpas has not helped the situation with his crowd interaction, Marsella's face and demeanour sums up the mood of the whole place - glum and uninteresting.

I think what you get with Ian is 'smarts' - both on and off the field. He has handled himself really well in the media last season and clearly developed a respect from the pundits. That is important in this day and age. He looks the part - for me appearance is everything. Ian looks professional at all times. He is completing his badges and he has had a season and a half in the league we are in - he knows the teams, knows the grounds, knows the managers.

In his career he has played under some very good successful managers - McLeish (who he rates the highest), Walter Smith, Mowbray.....he's also been quoted as saying that berating players all the time is unecessary, pointless and counter productive - which means he is rational.

His playing career tells you that he worked hard, despite injury, and was respected amongst his peers.

His CV for me is perfect - he is a modern manager for the modern era of football, and if we are developing a football plan we need a progressive manager. The fact he also supports Arsenal I can forgive :greengrin

I think this could be a decent move tbh. Anyone else remember Ian Murray in the press complaining about Hibs fans expectations during his second spell ? Think we were mid table at that time as well.
We dont expect much tbh. For a club our size bare minimum top 6 ideally top 4 with regular cup semis and finals. Accept that and the jobs yours ;-)

[Turkish Green]

TB is on holiday at the moment, his family went without him as he stayed behind due to the play offs, he joined them later. That was confirmed yesterday. He's due back tomorrow to meet LD.

Oh well! We live in hope. I've been reading to much into things. Great expectations and all that...

[The Leith Dutch]

I think a couple of people have alluded to this already but the fact that we change managers regularly needs to be seen in terms of when we change them.

Since Alex Miller was punted in 1996 we've had 11 managers and only 2 of them were put in place during the close season - Yogi and TM.
All the rest have been mid season with 6 of them arriving pre Christmas.

This is obviously not a good time to change managers and with several of those we've staggered into a season with a fair percentage of the fans having little or no faith that we have the right guy for the job.

In the case of both managers brought in during the close season they've started well.

That for me means Butcher must go now.

[MrRobot]

If he goes, I can see him being dignified and leaving with no cost to the club.

That said, I hope he stays and turns it round. A new manager every season is one of the ain problems at Hibs.

Has it not been stated before that we have still being paying 2-3 managers at a time through sacking them?

[Russ]

Aftera period of inactivity on both transfer and management news accompanied byMs Dempster diplomatically avoiding the question on Butcher's future, thankfully the only logical conclusion I can draw is that he will get his P45 next week.

While I will be delighted to see the back of him, it leaves us only a short time to recruit a manager and get a team in place for the start of the season .

Question is.....who can we get/will come and do it?

Who says their has been a period of inactivity? you don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes. Hopefully Terry will still be in place and I have a feeling the announcement next week will be to confirm just that and a few signings.

[Russ]

Definitely not, he did nothing whilst "managing" the team last season, and I use that term very loosely, to suggest that has the slightest clue how to build or manage a good team successfully!

Would never be disappointed or regretful if a new team management was brought in capable of getting the right players in and getting them playing good entertaining skillful football which would win most matches!
How did you rate Turnbull as a manager?

[truehibernian]

Who says their has been a period of inactivity? you don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes. Hopefully Terry will still be in place and I have a feeling the announcement next week will be to confirm just that and a few signings.

A good manager doesn't take a team that is 7th mid season and relegate them - he should be nowhere near Hibs come start of the season in my opinion. The cloud over the club isn't just because of Rod, although he is a major contributor. Terry Butcher has completely underestimated the job and that is what cost us. I still think he is dazed and confused by it all.

I posted after the 2-1 ER derby defeat that in my time supporting the side, it's the most despressing and morose bench and management team I'd seen at Hibs, ever. The players looked dejected, the staff around the bench looked utterly unhappy. And that was as play raged on - it was very surreal to see.

That in itself conveys itself to the fans and the team. People moan about our fans - we had every right to moan about the management and the players - they lacked fight, desire, passion and above all, there was no smiles on faces around the place.

Next time you look at the side warming up - look at the opposition staff on the pitch, then look at ours - there seems to be no enjoyment. It's crucial to have that in a football side.

[Onion]

Its a hard one imo . Butcher has managed in the very league were now in . Winning it with ICT . Granted there was no The Rangers or Hearts in it . So do we stick with him or go with a new man . No one wants Hibs to play football the way it should be played more than me , but to get out of this league first time of asking ,a league which is going to be a dog fight imo .might just suit TB . Then we part company with TB and get someone in who plays football the way it should be played .

Ggtth

IMO there's now just to much pressure on Butcher. He'll always be one loss away from scathing abuse from Hibs fans. Will we buy into his signings? formations ? Style of play?

Like Petrie, his rep is knackered.

[DH1875]

Cant believe that there's folks out there still looking to keep TB. While it's not ideal to keep changing the manager, we can't keep this twat just for the bloody sake of it.

[Russ]

A good manager doesn't take a team that is 7th mid season and relegate them - he should be nowhere near Hibs come start of the season in my opinion. The cloud over the club isn't just because of Rod, although he is a major contributor. Terry Butcher has completely underestimated the job and that is what cost us. I still think he is dazed and confused by it all.

I posted after the 2-1 ER derby defeat that in my time supporting the side, it's the most despressing and morose bench and management team I'd seen at Hibs, ever. The players looked dejected, the staff around the bench looked utterly unhappy. And that was as play raged on - it was very surreal to see.

That in itself conveys itself to the fans and the team. People moan about our fans - we had every right to moan about the management and the players - they lacked fight, desire, passion and above all, there was no smiles on faces around the place.

Next time you look at the side warming up - look at the opposition staff on the pitch, then look at ours - there seems to be no enjoyment. It's crucial to have that in a football side.
Since you brought up the the ER derby game it was the most depressing atmosphere I can ever remember prior to a derby game. I don't know if it was due to it being a Sunday joke time KO but it was brutal. It reminded me of the semi final against them where our much vaunted support once more accepted defeat before a ball was kicked, no wonder it transfers itself on to the pitch.

If Terry stays it will be HIS players he has to work with and they will be professionals, not champagne swilling fannies who don't give a toss about the fans or the club.

[TheReg!]

It will be a mutually agreed termination, I think TB has or will throw the towel in.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Stuart mccall

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[Thecat23]

He's a goner if you ask me. Said from the min we went down that he's be away. Just can't see Leeann keeping him as a lot of fans just won't take to the management team now.

[Green Reaper]

Do we give TB time and let him bring players in to fit into his system? No for me because I think he is not capable and we will end up sacking him and will be left with his players. This then costs to replace/ pay off TB and players or new manager stuck with his players

[Keith_M]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.
....


From what Dempster said, that sounded about right. She said that people were 'emotional' (I think) and suggested discussing this after his holiday.

Maybe once he's had his break, he could come back with a different view and feel he's ready for the challenge.



p.s I'm not suggesting he should either stay or go, as I keep changing my own mind ;)

[hibeejeebies]

From what Dempster said, that sounded about right. She said that people were 'emotional' (I think) and suggested discussing this after his holiday.

Maybe once he's had his break, he could come back with a different view and feel he's ready for the challenge.



p.s I'm not suggesting he should either stay or go, as I keep changing my own mind ;)


Interesting how it can be read different ways Keekaboo. My personal take on it was that Leeann was trying to hint to us as much as she could that we should expect a change in management.

Will hopefully find out for certain this week.

[Westie1875]

He's a goner if you ask me. Said from the min we went down that he's be away. Just can't see Leeann keeping him as a lot of fans just won't take to the management team now.

Agree, I really can't see how he could stay on. Hopefully an announcement on his departure tomorrow and we can all move on.

[nickwhibs]

Agree, I really can't see how he could stay on. Hopefully an announcement on his departure tomorrow and we can all move on.

Really hope so. Fresh start at all levels is needed.

[RIP Bestie]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.
The same thing you are saying about the players should surely apply to the manager. The players that failed have a proven track record at other clubs but couldn't cut it here for one reason or another. Butcher came in and made them worse in my opinion. I agree that we cannot continually change managed after every setback but nor can we afford to change players at the rate we have over the past few years. Any good manager should be able to get something out of his employees, Butcher got nothing. Butcher can't cut it at any club where there is an expectancy of success.

[Hibiza]

Butcher & Co :bye:

[JustSimplyHibs]

Stuart mccall

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I'm thinking the same... Butcher out by Weds and McCall new manager by Friday.

Reckon LD knows what she wants and will do her upmost to get it and i just get this feeling that McCall is her man to lead us to the Championship. Looking at her interviews - Butcher is not her man.

Anyone know when the meeting is???

[Glorious St Pat]

Would be a bit of a scoop for LD getting McCall...but why would he come after steering Motherwell to 2nd? Unless he sees the bigger picture and potential here

[bighairyfaeleith]

Would be a bit of a scoop for LD getting McCall...but why would he come after steering Motherwell to 2nd? Unless he sees the bigger picture and potential here

Money and potential, where can he go with motherwell now?

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[ScottB]

Would be a bit of a scoop for LD getting McCall...but why would he come after steering Motherwell to 2nd? Unless he sees the bigger picture and potential here

With 'Well cutting costs he's not likely to achieve that again, Hibs is a bigger job, and if he can promote us and lead us to a success, it could well lead to a bigger job.

Bit of a McLeish parallel I guess. A relegated Hibs turning to a Motherwell manager to turn us around...

[Cropley10]

Two plus two equals five.

[Gordy M]

Did albion rovers(3rd div) not put motherwell out the cup under mccall? Wonder how that would go down on here.....:cb

[truehibernian]

Did albion rovers(3rd div) not put motherwell out the cup under mccall? Wonder how that would go down on here.....:cb

Morton beat Celtic, Raith beat The Rangers.......one off results happen.

M'well have been consistently good throughout a season for the last 3 years. Two second places and a 3rd.

Hibs have been 7th, 11th and relegated.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Not sure if this is true but I hear mccalls salary at well is half of what we pay butchet

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[Just Alf]

Interesting how it can be read different ways Keekaboo. My personal take on it was that Leeann was trying to hint to us as much as she could that we should expect a change in management.

Will hopefully find out for certain this week.

I tend to agree, LD also said a lot of work was going on behind the scenes re players so it might be the new manager (if there IS one) will be off to a running start?

[Gordy M]

Morton beat Celtic, Raith beat The Rangers.......one off results happen.

M'well have been consistently good throughout a season for the last 3 years. Two second places and a 3rd.

Hibs have been 7th, 11th and relegated.
Yep i totally agree, hasnt stopped us using it as a stick to beat previous managers with though. That was my point.

[Kaff]

We can't hide behind it as a club I do want to mention that our good form under Butcher was prior to and just following the tragic passing of David Paul, we won one game after his funeral. Did this affect any uplift that we had from his appointment and subsequently was it hard to raise spirits?
We'll never know and as I say we can't hide behind this situation but I thought I would share that observation.

[Eternal Hibbie]

Really hoping to hear that Butcher and Malpas are away by the middle of the week.

Would be delighted if LD can entice Stuart McCall to follow her to Hibs.

What he has achieved with Motherwell over the past two or three seasons has been terrific - what would we have given for these top three finishes and they try to play the game the right way, great fit for us, sign him up on a good length contract Leeann. ;)

[hihohibby]

Butcher can't win. If he stays, he knows he will be under an excruciatingly painful microscope, with every result and performance analysed and dissected, and with the added pressure of having his results measured against those of Hearts and Rangers. If Hibs are chasing both clubs within the first few weeks of a new season the pressures on him will be unbearable.
On the other hand, if Butcher goes, his reputation will be in tatters and he will find it difficult convincing any club of his ability to manage at a higher level and/or under pressure.
If I were in his shoes I think I'd be looking to keep a low profile for a while, take stock of my life and ask myself "Is managing a football club worth the stress?"
For what it's worth, I want him to go -preferably resign at no cost to the club who have paid him handsomely for a shocking performance.

[weonlywon6-2]

LDs meeting with butcher wil be one of the most significant meetings at hibs for a long time,i hope butcher walks away as we need a totally fresh start and i would accept some like ian murray cause it is a work in progress,doubt it will happen
Stuart mccall is the obvious choice for me
Going to be interesting !!

[Pete]

He's a goner if you ask me. Said from the min we went down that he's be away. Just can't see Leeann keeping him as a lot of fans just won't take to the management team now.

I've read some nonsense from some people on here trying to reinforce their argument by belittling his record at Inverness. It's been needless in my opinion, as you've just stated the most compelling argument for parting company with them.

We need total unity going forward and if a fresh squad is to get a fair chance and 100% support there needs to be no hangovers from relegation. It's all very well talking about fresh starts but when the going gets tough will we collectively turn on the management team? It's all about perception and association and wether they like it or not, they will always be associated with taking us down.

I wouldn't mind them staying as I recognise what they are capable of but the question that needs to be honestly asked by the board is wether it's now too late. Will this be a toxic presence next season?

[Lmc2105]

Having seen the interviews by Leeann on Hibernian TV & when asked the question RE butcher i think the body language said a lot, Having met her in person yesterday i do believe that when they meet this week butcher will be surplus to requirements,

When she was approached we were 7th in the table with a chance of the top Six, between now and then whats happened and a believe that's what she will judge the performance of the manager on.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

My take is almost the same although I'd guess Butcher offered to resign rather than tried to.

I can't decide whether I want him to leave or not. He's had a shocker so far at Hibs but did very well with Inverness, which I don't believe was a fluke and more the result of being given time to build a team.

There's also the practical question of who would replace him and whether we can afford to pay him off. McCall would be great but did we not try and get him after Fenlon left? It's far from a given he'd join us.

With the high manager turnover in recent years, I'm probably leaning towards giving him another chance but not fussed either way and LD seems like a good person to make the decision.

[Greenblood70]

He has to go, there is no way you can relegate a club the size of Hibs from a very, historically poor SPL and expect to keep your job. Given the embarrassing tactics, the fans not seeing anything approaching or resembling football, his extremely outdated motivational techniques, second rate psychological tricks and his point blank refusal to pick our best players at various times due to personality issues I can't wait to see the back of him.

He is an absolute charlatan of a football manager, I would put him right up there with Calderwood and Duffy, and maybe even give the title of worst manager in my lifetime.


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[Pete]

Having seen the interviews by Leeann on Hibernian TV & when asked the question RE butcher i think the body language said a lot, Having met her in person yesterday i do believe that when they meet this week butcher will be surplus to requirements,

When she was approached we were 7th in the table with a chance of the top Six, between now and then whats happened and a believe that's what she will judge the performance of the manager on.

On the other hand, did she not say she liked "fast-foodflowing, pressing football" when asked what her ideal style was?

That sounds quite Butcherish.

[Lmc2105]

On the other hand, did she not say she liked "fast-foodflowing, pressing football" when asked what her ideal style was?

That sounds quite Butcherish.


One thing she did say yesterday was that she would like the ball to be played on the deck, no one likes to see the football that we have been playing for the last few years.

IMO Butcher got the tactics wrong continually asking for the ball to be hoofed up to the striker, that showed with us scoring the least goals in the premiership, the football was dire to watch and i believe that this has to fall on the shoulders as to why the manager should be removed, I could go on but everyone knows his biggest mistake was publicly saying the players were out in the summer. Poor management leads to no confidence and no morale.

[Winston Ingram]

Having seen the interviews by Leeann on Hibernian TV & when asked the question RE butcher i think the body language said a lot, Having met her in person yesterday i do believe that when they meet this week butcher will be surplus to requirements,

When she was approached we were 7th in the table with a chance of the top Six, between now and then whats happened and a believe that's what she will judge the performance of the manager on.

She strikes me as rational and reasonable and on the basis that there are no rational reasons to support him remaining i'd suspect he's gone. :agree:

[Lmc2105]

She strikes me as rational and reasonable and on the basis that there are no rational reasons to support him remaining i'd suspect he's gone. :agree:

Exactly WI, if she supported him outright i do believe that would have been shown as soon as she took over the role. As she said yesterday that meeting she had with him on Monday was nothing really she was in post at MFC and emotions were running very high.

[greenpaper55]

I've read some nonsense from some people on here trying to reinforce their argument by belittling his record at Inverness. It's been needless in my opinion, as you've just stated the most compelling argument for parting company with them.

We need total unity going forward and if a fresh squad is to get a fair chance and 100% support there needs to be no hangovers from relegation. It's all very well talking about fresh starts but when the going gets tough will we collectively turn on the management team? It's all about perception and association and wether they like it or not, they will always be associated with taking us down.

I wouldn't mind them staying as I recognise what they are capable of but the question that needs to be honestly asked by the board is wether it's now too late. Will this be a toxic presence next season?

Sorry, i've seen what they are capable of.

[Callum_62]

Hopefully we find out on Monday

If he goes - id love to get McCall in

Cant see that happening at all though

[Baader]

My reading is that Butcher tried to resign but LD has asked him to take some time to calm down and think about it.

This constant cycle of new managers has to stop as it's crippling the club. Each new manager needs to get rid of the players brought in by the previous one and bring in players he wants. Butcher hasn't even had that chance yet.

I know that some say he should have done better with what he had but let's face it, the players were not up to it mentally and couldn't handle the pressure that we, the fans, heaped on them.

The last paragraph is a joke right? Pressure of fans? We're not Barcelona!

SPFL survival and a home win against Hamilton was all we were asking in the end!!

[trev the hat]

I'm not sure when LD meeting with Butcher is although I'd guess its tomorrow. Given this weeks events I'm hoping / expecting the current management team exit ER & an announcement confirming Mon/Tues this week. Followed by an approach for McCall by end of week.
i just can't see any way a management team that's clearly failed is allowed to continue under her stewardship.
This alone will IMO give her instant credence throughout the support in her autonomy to act as she sees fit.
Here's hoping & would definitely have my full backing

[ehf]

The last paragraph is a joke right? Pressure of fans? We're not Barcelona!

SPFL survival and a home win against Hamilton was all we were asking in the end!!

Or a draw. Or even a one goal defeat. Or even a win on penalties. Which we would have achieved if Butcher hadn't wasted our three substitutions on Harris (x2) and OTJ.

[Greenworld]

Stuart mccall

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[jonny]

Rumours circulating online that Butcher's already been told his services will no longer be required, allegations that the meeting arranged is for the discussion of settlement. It's on the Hibernian FC rumours and transfers FB page. The guy posting it is the site admin and vlaims to have a source inside the club.
I'll wait to hear anything official before believing a guy on FB but the page has a couple of thousand followers and the admin is laying his reputation on the line posting that

[jacomo]

The last paragraph is a joke right? Pressure of fans? We're not Barcelona!

SPFL survival and a home win against Hamilton was all we were asking in the end!!

Maybe we should copy the Spanish fans and wave white hankies at the team?

FWIW I think the pressure at Hibs IS greater than at many other Scottish clubs - the stands can get very angry and the players can hear all sorts of abuse from the idiots in our support.

However, it's also possible to impress us... get the ball down and play. Mon the return to a hard-working, well organised, brave Hibs team.

[GloryGlory]

I'm not sure when LD meeting with Butcher is although I'd guess its tomorrow. Given this weeks events I'm hoping / expecting the current management team exit ER & an announcement confirming Mon/Tues this week. Followed by an approach for McCall by end of week.
i just can't see any way a management team that's clearly failed is allowed to continue under her stewardship.
This alone will IMO give her instant credence throughout the support in her autonomy to act as she sees fit.
Here's hoping & would definitely have my full backing

When LD mentioned that she had spoken to Butcher and told him to go on leave and then meet her this week, does anyone else also think she asked (told) him to consider his position as manager? She did say there were too many emotions at the time to talk about the future.

[Chris.igoe]

I hope this works. It's the tb interview from talk sport . Go to the 6 min mark. I think he will still be at Hibs next season.

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[Chris.igoe]

http://talksport.com/football/back-four-will-be-englands-weak-link-world-cup-says-three-lions-legend-14060995126#cZTphiAv32LsDRwS.01


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[AlbertK86]

Yep just listened to it

Said he doesn't want to talk about last season but agreed with Alan Brazil that we will be looking to lick wounds and bounce back

Was interesting to hear him say he would like to see England play by breaking with pace down the sides and get balls into head and feet

No mention of Hoofball !

[Speedway]

Yep just listened to it

Said he doesn't want to talk about last season but agreed with Alan Brazil that we will be looking to lick wounds and bounce back

Was interesting to hear him say he would like to see England play by breaking with pace down the sides and get balls into head and feet

No mention of Hoofball !

What would he have said?

[AlbertK86]

[QUOTE="Speedway;4053915"] What would he have said?

About Hibs or England ?

[Callum_62]

hmmm, not convinced that means he is staying at all

[DanHFC1875]

hmmm, not convinced that means he is staying at all

sounded more like he was going. Very short n sweet.

[Crazyhorse]

I'm not sure when LD meeting with Butcher is although I'd guess its tomorrow. Given this weeks events I'm hoping / expecting the current management team exit ER & an announcement confirming Mon/Tues this week. Followed by an approach for McCall by end of week.
i just can't see any way a management team that's clearly failed is allowed to continue under her stewardship.
This alone will IMO give her instant credence throughout the support in her autonomy to act as she sees fit.
Here's hoping & would definitely have my full backing

Well we will see soon enough. It may be that she has to consult the conduit and the conduit will have to step behind the curtain and consult with the owner and benefactor and then return and transmit the words of the owner and benefactor. Remember no one but the conduit is allowed into the presence of the owner and benefactor.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

The last paragraph is a joke right? Pressure of fans? We're not Barcelona!

SPFL survival and a home win against Hamilton was all we were asking in the end!!

Aye, a fair point, we are not Barcelona but what other reason is there for our shocking home record over the past few seasons (not just Butcher and Fenlon).

I agree that the attitude was all wrong in the second game against Hamilton and he should have been able to do something about it.

Having read the replies to my original post, I can certainly see the other point of view but I can't forget how ICT played against us before he arrived - however, as has been pointed out, they were playing against us.