Kevin Thomson - here's how to take a penalty!

[Hibbyradge]

:wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27678434

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Thomson wasnt a bad player nor was he treated fairly by butcher or some sections of our fans..... This is the player who played for free when he had better offers on the table....dundee will see the best of him ... its just a shame he want given a fair crack of the whip

[Itsnoteasy]

Thomson wasnt a bad player nor was he treated fairly by butcher or some sections of our fans..... This is the player who played for free when he had better offers on the table....dundee will see the best of him ... its just a shame he want given a fair crack of the whip
Doubt he is going to play for free if he had better offers. Playing for Spartans for a tenner a week would be a better offer. Even when coming on against Hamilton he made no difference.

[madhatter]

Thomson wasnt a bad player nor was he treated fairly by butcher or some sections of our fans..... This is the player who played for free when he had better offers on the table....dundee will see the best of him ... its just a shame he want given a fair crack of the whip


Was he also not the same player that said he couldn't wait to get to Rangers? He did get a decent crack of the whip to be fair. Since returning to Hibs he played at least 15-20 games across the 2 seasons whether it be as a sub or start and in all of those I've not seen much from him, same goes for Taiwo.

Both of whom, I think will do well elsewhere but for whatever reason they didn't do it for Hibs. Happy to see the back of all the players that got us relegated apart from youths as they didn't deserve the responsibility to get us out of it. I won't hold it against them personally and I wish them all the luck but just because KT is "one of our own" doesn't mean he wasn't crap each time he played. He got a rapturous reception in the playoff and I only remember him passing the ball out of play and perhaps being composed in our own half. We need good players that do their talking on the park.

Way I see it, KT was playing, OTJ was playing, Liam Craig was playing and Roberston was playing - who was responsible for getting up to support Cummings (18 year old), Stanton...
Liam Craig was playing LB with McGivern and either too unfit or too scared to advance in the slightest, KT, OTJ were playing virtually at CB and only broke up the pitch to the half-way line at most. Roberston was put wide-right and like Liam Craig was either so central or playing RB to make any impact. However much people dislike Butcher and Malpas, I can assure you that they'd not tell a team to play so central, play so defensive - I was at the game and both were screaming to push up, yet (as we've seen for the whole season) they are so nonchalant with their attempt that we get picked off. Case and point, Hamilton's equaliser in last minute.

Whilst I appreciate Thomson playing for free, some would say it's the least he could do after how he left. Showing massive disrespect I recall. He and Brown will always have my support because of what they meant to me at Hibs those years ago. However, club is more important than player.

[skipster7]

I would fall flat on my puss trying that pen:greengrin FWIW i dont like left footers taking pens, most seem a little easier to read imo.

[keep the faith]

What about Cummings? Should he watch too??

[Onceinawhile]

There's a much better version of that penalty, taken by an Spanish U-21's (I Think) player, where he totallt hammers it in.

[SMAXXA]

Doubt he is going to play for free if he had better offers. Playing for Spartans for a tenner a week would be a better offer. Even when coming on against Hamilton he made no difference.

:confused:But he did.....and did have better more lucrative offers

[SlickShoes]

Guy posts a jokey thread, everyone starts greetin as usual, hibs.net

[(((Fergus)))]

There's a much better version of that penalty, taken by an Spanish U-21's (I Think) player, where he totallt hammers it in.

Yep, and in a competitive fixture, not just arseing about in training


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXnoQdEunE

[Nutmegged]

Even when coming on against Hamilton he made no difference.

I think you're seriously underestimating how difficult it can be to get into the rhythm of a game, particularly one like the Hamilton game when the tide was well and truly against us, plus, if our midfield constantly see the ball fly over their head I don't understand how they can be expected to make a difference anyway.

[madhatter]

I think you're seriously underestimating how difficult it can be to get into the rhythm of a game, particularly one like the Hamilton game when the tide was well and truly against us, plus, if our midfield constantly see the ball fly over their head I don't understand how they can be expected to make a difference anyway.

Valid but he's gone and did nothing this time around.

[Gordy M]

what about this pen from an actual penalty shoot out!!! Lol

http://youtu.be/6sB7x5Nckj0

[Nutmegged]

Valid but he's gone and did nothing this time around.

I disagree, I thought he was our best player this Season, granted its not been a brilliant list but I felt when he had a run of games under his belt he shown above anything else we had.

Yes he's gone, that will be our loss IMO

[madhatter]

I disagree, I thought he was our best player this Season, granted its not been a brilliant list but I felt when he had a run of games under his belt he shown above anything else we had.

Yes he's gone, that will be our loss IMO

He looked the best out of a bad bunch. Never thought he looked the best on the pitch though. Opposition players looked fitter, quicker and more mobile. They created more chances and drove forward with conviction.

Team formed is more important. If TB forms a team like ICT then it won't be our loss.

[Nutmegged]

He looked the best out of a bad bunch. Never thought he looked the best on the pitch though. Opposition players looked fitter, quicker and more mobile. They created more chances and drove forward with conviction.

Team formed is more important. If TB forms a team like ICT then it won't be our loss.

Terry Butcher wont form a team like ICT, at Easter Road its a far bigger job, more expecation, more pressure, far more focus, in Inverness he was given all the time he ever needed, as a Former England captain he was the biggest name their club ever had, he was allowed to get on with it and playing in front of 3k fans most weeks at home meant the expectation level was never going to push him to a limit where he'd feel pressurised.

its far easier to get a club to punch above their weight than it is to get a club to realise their potential, Butcher isn't that man, its painfully obvious!

[Keith_M]

Guy posts a jokey thread, everyone starts greetin as usual, hibs.net



:hnetinq:

[madhatter]

Terry Butcher wont form a team like ICT, at Easter Road its a far bigger job, more expecation, more pressure, far more focus, in Inverness he was given all the time he ever needed, as a Former England captain he was the biggest name their club ever had, he was allowed to get on with it and playing in front of 3k fans most weeks at home meant the expectation level was never going to push him to a limit where he'd feel pressurised.

its far easier to get a club to punch above their weight than it is to get a club to realise their potential, Butcher isn't that man, its painfully obvious!

I see your point but to this day Butcher hasn't signed a single player for Hibs so making these claims now is a bit too much like a rumour. I don't know and you don't know whether Butcher would be a success.

Ludicrous that people are listing McLeish as their dream manager. It could be identical to his time...Ex rangers man gets Hibs relegated. Gets time and turns it round. Why did McLeish deserve time and Butcher doesn't?

[Keith_M]

.....

Ludicrous that people are listing McLeish as their dream manager. It could be identical to his time...Ex rangers man gets Hibs relegated. Gets time and turns it round. Why did McLeish deserve time and Butcher doesn't?


McLeish joined Hibs much later than Butcher did and oversaw a minor revival at the end of the season.

Oh and ex-Ranger? McLeish only went to Ibrox after managing Hibs, he never played there.

[Nutmegged]

McLeish at the time was a young vibrant manager who had turned Motherwell, his only managerial job to date into a very good side, Motherwell after the Scottish Cup win in 1991 and the success of Tommy McLean also had high standards, McLeish bettered those standards in my opinion.

McLeish also had a very good Hearts team to go up against, Rangers were going for 10 in a row and Celtic where on course to win their first title in a decade, three teams filled with some very good players.

Butcher doesn't have Rangers to deal with and Hearts should have been inconsequential given their start, McLeish had a far harder job in my opinion but was a young rising manager, Butcher on the other hand failed in a League were given our resources and the teams who were already put of the equation should have been impossible to finish outside of the top 6 at worst, Butcher is also a dinosaur.

This is the third time with THREE different clubs that Terry Butcher has finished a season with his club having won the least amount of points in the Division.

There is simply no comparison between Butcher and McLeish for me

[madhatter]

McLeish joined Hibs much later than Butcher did and oversaw a minor revival at the end of the season.

Oh and ex-Ranger? McLeish only went to Ibrox after managing Hibs, he never played there.

You are correct I was trying to put known Rangers man. However, I still don't understand how, whilst knowing emptied players had downed tools, and knowing that TB did get revival until he said these players aren't good enough, that fans would rather get McLeish back and pay up TB, MM, SM contracts than give butcher time to get his own players in. People were happy to give Fenlon time for Christ's sake.

[madhatter]

McLeish at the time was a young vibrant manager who had turned Motherwell, his only managerial job to date into a very good side, Motherwell after the Scottish Cup win in 1991 and the success of Tommy McLean also had high standards, McLeish bettered those standards in my opinion.

McLeish also had a very good Hearts team to go up against, Rangers were going for 10 in a row and Celtic where on course to win their first title in a decade, three teams filled with some very good players.

Butcher doesn't have Rangers to deal with and Hearts should have been inconsequential given their start, McLeish had a far harder job in my opinion but was a young rising manager, Butcher on the other hand failed in a League were given our resources and the teams who were already put of the equation should have been impossible to finish outside of the top 6 at worst, Butcher is also a dinosaur.

This is the third time with THREE different clubs that Terry Butcher has finished a season with his club having won the least amount of points in the Division.

There is simply no comparison between Butcher and McLeish for me

Resources? To gain promotion, McLeish got money for Sauzee, Latapy and the likes. TB has spent nothing and whoever is in charge for this coming season will get nothing to work with. You are right, no comparisons because since McLeish time, I can't think of many other managers that have got to spend the sorts of cash he did. Especially recently. TB may be a dinosaur but McLeish is no longer a young up and coming manager. People need to stop living in the past glories. He, like KT left Hibs in undignified fashion and people want him back? New foreign manager or give Butcher time for me.

[hibbysam]

Was he also not the same player that said he couldn't wait to get to Rangers? He did get a decent crack of the whip to be fair. Since returning to Hibs he played at least 15-20 games across the 2 seasons whether it be as a sub or start and in all of those I've not seen much from him, same goes for Taiwo.

Both of whom, I think will do well elsewhere but for whatever reason they didn't do it for Hibs. Happy to see the back of all the players that got us relegated apart from youths as they didn't deserve the responsibility to get us out of it. I won't hold it against them personally and I wish them all the luck but just because KT is "one of our own" doesn't mean he wasn't crap each time he played. He got a rapturous reception in the playoff and I only remember him passing the ball out of play and perhaps being composed in our own half. We need good players that do their talking on the park.

Way I see it, KT was playing, OTJ was playing, Liam Craig was playing and Roberston was playing - who was responsible for getting up to support Cummings (18 year old), Stanton...
Liam Craig was playing LB with McGivern and either too unfit or too scared to advance in the slightest, KT, OTJ were playing virtually at CB and only broke up the pitch to the half-way line at most. Roberston was put wide-right and like Liam Craig was either so central or playing RB to make any impact. However much people dislike Butcher and Malpas, I can assure you that they'd not tell a team to play so central, play so defensive - I was at the game and both were screaming to push up, yet (as we've seen for the whole season) they are so nonchalant with their attempt that we get picked off. Case and point, Hamilton's equaliser in last minute.

Whilst I appreciate Thomson playing for free, some would say it's the least he could do after how he left. Showing massive disrespect I recall. He and Brown will always have my support because of what they meant to me at Hibs those years ago. However, club is more important than player.

Butcher wouldn't tell his side to play so defensive? Would he not? 451 all year... He took heffernan off and put OTJ on... That left us with an 18 year old laddie up front on his tod for 30 minutes of Extra time! They played for a draw against a first division side that we had just beaten 2-0 away from home!

[madhatter]

Butcher wouldn't tell his side to play so defensive? Would he not? 451 all year... He took heffernan off and put OTJ on... That left us with an 18 year old laddie up front on his tod for 30 minutes of Extra time! They played for a draw against a first division side that we had just beaten 2-0 away from home!

Spain play 451, and sometimes 460 so basing playing defensive on a formation doesn't make any sense. He took Heffernan off because in 2nd half, Heffernan did nothing and was barely running. He left 18 year old on because he was still chasing after lost balls and putting pressure on defenders. Not rocket science really. He brought OTJ because I think there would have been a riot had he brought on Collins and we were struggling in midfield, even with experienced players in the centre. Didn't play for a draw. Played fine up until McGivern passed it to them and Scotland turned Nelson (give me 2mins and I'll eventually turn 180...). Played to win but unfortunately the players weren't good enough. Both goals easily avoidable. OTJ should have taken ball, man, pitch, everything to stop the developing play for the equaliser. Did none of these.

ICT also played 451 whilst Butcher was there and I wouldn't have called them defensive when they were humping us.

Lets be honest, we were lucky to be ahead 2-0 in the first leg. Great strikes but 1 should have been offside (Heffernan) and the other the goallie should have at least got a touch on it. How about blame past managers for Butcher having these options: Upfront: Collins (where's the net?), Heffernan (injury prone), Cummings (I think I've got bum fluff coming out!), Vine (haha). Wingers: Cairney (1 trick wonder - scorching hot/ice age type form), Harris (I'm just back from long injury - I'm scared of everything), Zoubir (merde). Centre mids: Taiwo (master of the sideways pass), OTJ (injured I am), Robertson (I'm box to box), Thomson (I'll sit deep and ping passes), Stevenson (I'll run so far and pass it back to McGivern), Liam Craig (I'll shout at ref and team mates a lot but do nothing myself), Stanton (I'll try my best but I'm still learning). Defence: McGivern (like my hair?), Hanlon (injured), Nelson (Admiral Nelson turns as quickly as the ship he's in command of), McPake (I'm fit gaffer, 15mins later needs taken off after challenging for header), Maybury (I'm 37 but the only RB at the club...), Forster (I'm learning the trade - badly of these lot I might add).

How do you play attacking free-flowing football with the above? No pace and our best defender has been injured for some of the crucial TBs games. Deep playing CMs and Liam Craig the ranter that doesn't do much. Plus a choice of 3 wingers: scaredy cat, polar form man and Je ne comprends pas l'anglais. Great choices...

He should have strengthened in January but lets not forget our "Petrie Out" campaign because we have no confidence of him backing managers...

[The_Horde]

Spain play 451, and sometimes 460 so basing playing defensive on a formation doesn't make any sense. He took Heffernan off because in 2nd half, Heffernan did nothing and was barely running. He left 18 year old on because he was still chasing after lost balls and putting pressure on defenders. Not rocket science really. He brought OTJ because I think there would have been a riot had he brought on Collins and we were struggling in midfield, even with experienced players in the centre. Didn't play for a draw. Played fine up until McGivern passed it to them and Scotland turned Nelson (give me 2mins and I'll eventually turn 180...). Played to win but unfortunately the players weren't good enough. Both goals easily avoidable. OTJ should have taken ball, man, pitch, everything to stop the developing play for the equaliser. Did none of these.

ICT also played 451 whilst Butcher was there and I wouldn't have called them defensive when they were humping us.

Lets be honest, we were lucky to be ahead 2-0 in the first leg. Great strikes but 1 should have been offside (Heffernan) and the other the goallie should have at least got a touch on it. How about blame past managers for Butcher having these options: Upfront: Collins (where's the net?), Heffernan (injury prone), Cummings (I think I've got bum fluff coming out!), Vine (haha). Wingers: Cairney (1 trick wonder - scorching hot/ice age type form), Harris (I'm just back from long injury - I'm scared of everything), Zoubir (merde). Centre mids: Taiwo (master of the sideways pass), OTJ (injured I am), Robertson (I'm box to box), Thomson (I'll sit deep and ping passes), Stevenson (I'll run so far and pass it back to McGivern), Liam Craig (I'll shout at ref and team mates a lot but do nothing myself), Stanton (I'll try my best but I'm still learning). Defence: McGivern (like my hair?), Hanlon (injured), Nelson (Admiral Nelson turns as quickly as the ship he's in command of), McPake (I'm fit gaffer, 15mins later needs taken off after challenging for header), Maybury (I'm 37 but the only RB at the club...), Forster (I'm learning the trade - badly of these lot I might add).

How do you play attacking free-flowing football with the above? No pace and our best defender has been injured for some of the crucial TBs games. Deep playing CMs and Liam Craig the ranter that doesn't do much. Plus a choice of 3 wingers: scaredy cat, polar form man and Je ne comprends pas l'anglais. Great choices...

He should have strengthened in January but lets not forget our "Petrie Out" campaign because we have no confidence of him backing managers...

95/100! :wink:

Seriously though I agree with that. It looked a strong - grind out results kind of team at first but you can't grind out results without a good defence and a goal scorer.

[Nutmegged]

Resources? To gain promotion, McLeish got money for Sauzee, Latapy and the likes. TB has spent nothing and whoever is in charge for this coming season will get nothing to work with. You are right, no comparisons because since McLeish time, I can't think of many other managers that have got to spend the sorts of cash he did. Especially recently. TB may be a dinosaur but McLeish is no longer a young up and coming manager. People need to stop living in the past glories. He, like KT left Hibs in undignified fashion and people want him back? New foreign manager or give Butcher time for me.

Whoa Whoa Whoa - easy tiger, YOU'RE the one who brought McLeish into this conversation, not once have I said Eck should be the manager, we simply aren't a big enough lure for him anyway at the moment, for reasons known only to you, you decided to ask me whats the difference between McLeish ans Butcher, I gave you then you decided to turn it around as me wanting McLeish, I'd take him as he is and always has been a far superior manager than Terry Butcher but thats not me championing him for the job.

You're correct that McLeish got funds though in the First Division, its blatently obvious why though isn't it?

1- He proved beyond doubt in his time trying to save our Premier Divison skins that he was capable of getting results
2 - the players were fully behind him
3 - The fans having witnessed our survival attempt believed in him
4 - the most crucial aspect, we were the big fish in the small pond in 1998-99, in the new SFL1 we were red hot favourites to win the League ans promotion, that allowed us to shell out on players that could win us promotion

Fast forward to 2014 - we'll be 3rd favourites at best for the title, we've got a monster in Rangers and also got Hearts who we're notoriously bad against, if the club throw money at it this year and dont go up they could put themselves into financial trouble, thats why Butcher might not be allowed to spend money like McLeish did in 98'

[hibbysam]

Spain play 451, and sometimes 460 so basing playing defensive on a formation doesn't make any sense. He took Heffernan off because in 2nd half, Heffernan did nothing and was barely running. He left 18 year old on because he was still chasing after lost balls and putting pressure on defenders. Not rocket science really. He brought OTJ because I think there would have been a riot had he brought on Collins and we were struggling in midfield, even with experienced players in the centre. Didn't play for a draw. Played fine up until McGivern passed it to them and Scotland turned Nelson (give me 2mins and I'll eventually turn 180...). Played to win but unfortunately the players weren't good enough. Both goals easily avoidable. OTJ should have taken ball, man, pitch, everything to stop the developing play for the equaliser. Did none of these.

ICT also played 451 whilst Butcher was there and I wouldn't have called them defensive when they were humping us.

Lets be honest, we were lucky to be ahead 2-0 in the first leg. Great strikes but 1 should have been offside (Heffernan) and the other the goallie should have at least got a touch on it. How about blame past managers for Butcher having these options: Upfront: Collins (where's the net?), Heffernan (injury prone), Cummings (I think I've got bum fluff coming out!), Vine (haha). Wingers: Cairney (1 trick wonder - scorching hot/ice age type form), Harris (I'm just back from long injury - I'm scared of everything), Zoubir (merde). Centre mids: Taiwo (master of the sideways pass), OTJ (injured I am), Robertson (I'm box to box), Thomson (I'll sit deep and ping passes), Stevenson (I'll run so far and pass it back to McGivern), Liam Craig (I'll shout at ref and team mates a lot but do nothing myself), Stanton (I'll try my best but I'm still learning). Defence: McGivern (like my hair?), Hanlon (injured), Nelson (Admiral Nelson turns as quickly as the ship he's in command of), McPake (I'm fit gaffer, 15mins later needs taken off after challenging for header), Maybury (I'm 37 but the only RB at the club...), Forster (I'm learning the trade - badly of these lot I might add).

How do you play attacking free-flowing football with the above? No pace and our best defender has been injured for some of the crucial TBs games. Deep playing CMs and Liam Craig the ranter that doesn't do much. Plus a choice of 3 wingers: scaredy cat, polar form man and Je ne comprends pas l'anglais. Great choices...

He should have strengthened in January but lets not forget our "Petrie Out" campaign because we have no confidence of him backing managers...

Comparing Hibs 451 to Spains? :rolleyes:

He brought on two defensive midfielders to try and hold on to a game, that is a fact! No getting round it, no blaming other managers, **** all... Butcher blew that on team selection and formation. We needed to try and push up the pitch in the last 10 minutes but he brought Heffernan off and played an extra defensive midfielder which only meant one thing, to sit deeper. Keep an extra striker on and try and put pressure on further up the pitch... Even putting Collins on and putting Cummings to left midfield would have been a more sensible way to go 451 as he did this at Hamilton and Cummings still got up and down the line.

Offside when a boy wins the ball 45 yards out and scores a 30 yard screamer? We played the perfect game away from home, we hit the post and had a couple of other chances and won 2-0 while fairly solid defensively. To then not even have an attempt on goal because he was more content to sit on that 2-0 lead than score 1 goal and kill the tie is utterly embarrassing against a lower league side.

Is Robertson a deep lying Centre midfielder? no.. Is Stanton? No Butcher is trying to make him one. Is Craig? No he actually scored goals early in season by getting past striker, until Butcher tried to make him into Makelele.

Butcher tried and failed with the same team/defence/formation for weeks and weeks and weeks without changing anything at all..

I can't see though how taking a striker off and putting a second defensive midfielder on while having to centre midfielders playing virtually as full backs isn't playing defensively or narrowly. You cannot blame the players for playing 5 centre midfielders to finish with and taking your second striker off for a midfielder.

[madhatter]

Comparing Hibs 451 to Spains? :rolleyes:

He brought on two defensive midfielders to try and hold on to a game, that is a fact! No getting round it, no blaming other managers, **** all... Butcher blew that on team selection and formation. We needed to try and push up the pitch in the last 10 minutes but he brought Heffernan off and played an extra defensive midfielder which only meant one thing, to sit deeper. Keep an extra striker on and try and put pressure on further up the pitch... Even putting Collins on and putting Cummings to left midfield would have been a more sensible way to go 451 as he did this at Hamilton and Cummings still got up and down the line.

Offside when a boy wins the ball 45 yards out and scores a 30 yard screamer? We played the perfect game away from home, we hit the post and had a couple of other chances and won 2-0 while fairly solid defensively. To then not even have an attempt on goal because he was more content to sit on that 2-0 lead than score 1 goal and kill the tie is utterly embarrassing against a lower league side.

Is Robertson a deep lying Centre midfielder? no.. Is Stanton? No Butcher is trying to make him one. Is Craig? No he actually scored goals early in season by getting past striker, until Butcher tried to make him into Makelele.

Butcher tried and failed with the same team/defence/formation for weeks and weeks and weeks without changing anything at all..

I can't see though how taking a striker off and putting a second defensive midfielder on while having to centre midfielders playing virtually as full backs isn't playing defensively or narrowly. You cannot blame the players for playing 5 centre midfielders to finish with and taking your second striker off for a midfielder.

Offside? Yes, I think you'll find heffernan was offside for the second goal. Perfect game? Hamilton if they had started Scotland would've scored against us, had plenty possession and Williams had to save us again by flying out.

Hate to say this but you've got a real bee in the bonnet over Butcher. He's made mistakes but claiming he's trying to make all our midfielders defensive minded is garbage. He had us bombing forward in his first 5-6 games. Robertson is box to box and Stanton has always been placed at front of diamond...Stanton has regularly went deeper because everyone else behind is playing back 10. Plus he had to make up for other more experienced players mistakes.

No blame on other managers? Are you kidding? Even before butcher took over I thought this was the most imbalanced, slow, uncreative, short, weak team I can recall. Please look at options I listed in previous post. They options were truly awful. butcher as I said should have strengthened in January but didn't for one reason or another. Fenlon and CC before him should have built better teams as well.

I'd have preferred having Hamiltons team that's how bad ours was. mcgivern passed to their player and Nelson got turned easily by a man 3 years older and about 6 stone heavier. These both weren't brought in by butcher but were virtually only choice. And you say it is his fault that we played 5 mids deep? Once again, both him and Malpas were screaming on the touch line for them to move up and they didn't. Also, who was he to bring on? Options were Collins... He'd have been boed on and berated for obvious reasons and we'd likely have lost by more.

No proper left back, no right back, few wingers and no goalscorer. This is Butchers fault right enough. January with Petrie as your chairman is when it all goes down right enough...Fenlon had many transfer windows and didn't do it. Butcher has had one. He needs to get us playing better granted but if you think players or ex managers are not to blame, you've got a few screws loose. Can't blame one man for our 7 year decline unless your talking about Petrie.