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Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 05:54 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.

Scouse Hibee
02-06-2014, 05:57 PM
So your source has found out on Monday that TB will be sacked on Friday, why the long wait?

nribs
02-06-2014, 05:57 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.

Why wait until Friday? If he was to be sacked do it now time isn't really on our side.

Heisenberg
02-06-2014, 05:57 PM
No chance IMO.

smurf
02-06-2014, 05:59 PM
Was Terry Butcher mentioned in the statement today? I thought it weird he wasn't...

Just Alf
02-06-2014, 06:00 PM
No chance IMO.

Agree, can't see it ...

Unseen work
02-06-2014, 06:01 PM
hes had a horrid start to his hibs career but i really cant see what good it will do sacking him. We all said he need time to turn the club (not just squad) around and to do that he need time and this summer to get a team of players he has confidence in and playing his style. Also a team that respect him and will run through a brick wall for him. Also all they need to do is look at the players they have found before for caley to see he does know how to assemble a winning team

Who would we get to replace him? ian murray? not for me, he is only 33 and is far to big a jump, one which i dont think he would take as he knows the massive pressure he will be under. There not 1 manager out there that i beleive we could realistcally sign that would make us better

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 06:02 PM
If he hadn't been allowed to release all those players last week I would find it much easier to believe any rumours about him being sacked, as things stand I find it impossible to believe that he would be allowed to make that call then be sacked.

puff the dragon
02-06-2014, 06:02 PM
I'd be shocked but not surprised. Petrie might use it to try stop folk going to the rally.

it'll not stop me going tho.

petrie out.

Aldo
02-06-2014, 06:04 PM
I think that if he was going to be sacked he would of went by now!!!

You never know tho it is Hibs after all

Wheat Hound
02-06-2014, 06:04 PM
Was Terry Butcher mentioned in the statement today? I thought it weird he wasn't...

I agree.

There has been absolutely no mention of Butcher in any of the club statements post relegation. Additionaly, aside from his immediate post match interview, there has been nothing at all from Butcher himself. Appreciate he may just be away on his hols but I still thought his predeliction for media relations would have seen him feature in some way. Strange.

Saorsa
02-06-2014, 06:05 PM
I'd be shocked but not surprised. Petrie might use it to try stop folk going to the rally.

it'll not stop me going tho.

petrie out.:agree: Even if TB does go the real problem will remain, he'll just have seen out another one of his **** ups. See you there.


petrie GTF

Nailrod
02-06-2014, 06:06 PM
If TB is sacked the compo will cripple us financially. We will be left with next to nothing to put together a squad for next season.

The upside is that we will be able to harp on constantly about our 'young colts' when Alloa beat us, and fill the media with lamentations about how well our kids are standing up to the challenge (if they do).

Cropley10
02-06-2014, 06:06 PM
Only any good if:

1.It costs us nothing or next to nothing - maybe Malpas is guilty of Gross Misconduct :dunno:

2. We've got a replacement manager lined up, immediately.

3. Replacement manager knows what's required from a playing staff perspective.

Likelihood of this happening are therefore very slim, but not impossible.

Gerard
02-06-2014, 06:10 PM
TB needs a chance to bring in his players and see what he does with his team. Hibs need to keep a manager at least 2 seasons. The club needs stability at this time. If there was a very wealthy benefactor who was going to gift our club millions of pounds then perhaps a change might succeed.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 06:13 PM
So your source has found out on Monday that TB will be sacked on Friday, why the long wait?

That's the soonest that she can meet with Butcher to discuss future plans/proposals. He's on hols. This will help with stopping the protest!

Scouse Hibee
02-06-2014, 06:17 PM
That's the soonest that she can meet with Butcher to discuss future plans/proposals. He's on hols. This will help with stopping the protest!


Fair enough. :aok:

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 06:18 PM
TB needs a chance to bring in his players and see what he does with his team. Hibs need to keep a manager at least 2 seasons. The club needs stability at this time. If there was a very wealthy benefactor who was going to gift our club millions of pounds then perhaps a change might succeed.

Butcher had a chance to bring in players in January. He's been an unmitigated disaster and should already have been sacked. If getting hibs relegated from the position we were in when he took over isn't a stackable offence I'd love to know what is.

The Green Goblin
02-06-2014, 06:19 PM
I'd be shocked but not surprised. Petrie might use it to try stop folk going to the rally.


:agree: When's the next AGM again? The latest patsy to appease the masses (although admittedly if he does go, he will arguably have contributed to his own demise more than other recent managers have). Just a rumour though....so we'll have to wait and see.

Bobby's Cinema
02-06-2014, 06:19 PM
I hope he goes. But surely this would only indicate further crazy mismanagement, if the wrong man has been allowed to shape the squad through releasing players who might have otherwise stayed.

GoldenEagle
02-06-2014, 06:20 PM
If TB is sacked the compo will cripple us financially. We will be left with next to nothing to put together a squad for next season.

The upside is that we will be able to harp on constantly about our 'young colts' when Alloa beat us, and fill the media with lamentations about how well our kids are standing up to the challenge (if they do).

Oh FFS, almost all the jibes at Hibs that I've read so frequently on JKB over the years rolled into one.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 06:22 PM
:agree: When's the next AGM again? The latest patsy to appease the masses (although admittedly if he does go, he will arguably have contributed to his own demise more than other recent managers have). Just a rumour though....so we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah just a rumour! Will be interesting to see how it unfolds

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:22 PM
Butcher had a chance to bring in players in January. He's been an unmitigated disaster and should already have been sacked. If getting hibs relegated from the position we were in when he took over isn't a stackable offence I'd love to know what is.

When have hibs or anybody else in our market made a great signing in January? You're looking at players with potential at bit clubs or players who've not set the heather alight at lower clubs. I can only remember us signing one decent player in January in recent years - sparky. And even he didn't settle immediately.

Gerard
02-06-2014, 06:23 PM
Butcher had a chance to bring in players in January. He's been an unmitigated disaster and should already have been sacked. If getting hibs relegated from the position we were in when he took over isn't a stackable offence I'd love to know what is.

Not quite the players he wanted. The Jan TW is not an easy window to bring in quality players. In any case we can not afford to sack him. If we could sack him we will find it V difficult to bring in a quality manager.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:23 PM
TB is going nowhere IMO. And I'm glad.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 06:24 PM
Fair enough. :aok:

In my opinion. Someone needs to take the bullet over relegation. 1 win in 19 games (2 in 21) is a sackable offence IMO. It's a way to get the fans onside with Leanne. And onside in general

BT58
02-06-2014, 06:26 PM
This will help with stopping the protest!
Is LD gonna sack RP too?????? the only way the protest is going to stop is if RP goes,,,,,
victor

Waxy
02-06-2014, 06:27 PM
If he hadn't been allowed to release all those players last week I would find it much easier to believe any rumours about him being sacked, as things stand I find it impossible to believe that he would be allowed to make that call then be sacked.he released no one.He only said bye to players whos contracts had ended.

Diclonius
02-06-2014, 06:29 PM
Petrie's scapegoat out, Petrie's scapegoat in. :aok:

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 06:30 PM
;4044879']When have hibs or anybody else in our market made a great signing in January? You're looking at players with potential at bit clubs or players who've not set the heather alight at lower clubs. I can only remember us signing one decent player in January in recent years - sparky. And even he didn't settle immediately.

He didn't need to sign great players in January all he needed to do was sign a couple of players good enough to keep us away from the relegation battle that we weren't even involved in in January.

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 06:33 PM
he released no one.He only said bye to players whos contracts had ended.

Your right, but if he was being sacked he shouldn't have been allowed to do that. It's also been rumoured that he has told numerous players that they're free to find other clubs, if he was about to be sacked he also shouldn't have been allowed to do that.

Golden Bear
02-06-2014, 06:33 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.

So now we know but TB doesn't (unless he reads hibs net of course)

Sammy7nil
02-06-2014, 06:33 PM
If TB is sacked the compo will cripple us financially.


Mr Butcher could go on gardening leave. It would cost us a weekly wage until he finds new employment when perhaps a 3 month severence package could be agreed. TB wont want to be out the game long so he may be employed again quite soon.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:34 PM
He didn't need to sign great players in January all he needed to do was sign a couple of players good enough to keep us away from the relegation battle that we weren't even involved in in January.

We were never as far away from relegation as some make out but apart from that I agree.

Who says he didn't try to? He tried for Adam Rooney and lost out to the sheep. Who's to say he wasn't dealt the same hand with other targets?

Petrie out.

Beefster
02-06-2014, 06:35 PM
"The way for Dempster to prove she's in charge is to go against Petrie's statement and sack Butcher"

Rumour Butcher is to be sacked after Dempster takes over...

"It's Petrie trying to stop the protest"

Lee Marvin
02-06-2014, 06:36 PM
hes had a horrid start to his hibs career but i really cant see what good it will do sacking him. We all said he need time to turn the club (not just squad) around and to do that he need time and this summer to get a team of players he has confidence in and playing his style. Also a team that respect him and will run through a brick wall for him. Also all they need to do is look at the players they have found before for caley to see he does know how to assemble a winning team

Who would we get to replace him? ian murray? not for me, he is only 33 and is far to big a jump, one which i dont think he would take as he knows the massive pressure he will be under. There not 1 manager out there that i beleive we could realistcally sign that would make us better

I think I'd make hibs better

Viva_Palmeiras
02-06-2014, 06:38 PM
In times of crises like these we really could do with a time-bound rumour - oh! Here it is!

yekimevol
02-06-2014, 06:38 PM
TB needs a chance to bring in his players and see what he does with his team. Hibs need to keep a manager at least 2 seasons. The club needs stability at this time. If there was a very wealthy benefactor who was going to gift our club millions of pounds then perhaps a change might succeed.


Ive always been confused with this idea. In most other walks of life when someone become a manager of something; a shop, warehouse whatever ... they are expected to get better results with what is present, they dont just walk in and sack everyone to get there best pals in. So its always confused me that football manager have always been able to use this as an excuse to avoid being questioned on there initial stint at a club, to me butcher has failed and should have handed in his notice when he dragged a mid table team to relegation.

I do believe that a mid-table team was present there, notice that most of the regular player will end up at SPL teams that probably do well.

RIP Bestie
02-06-2014, 06:39 PM
;4044879']When have hibs or anybody else in our market made a great signing in January? You're looking at players with potential at bit clubs or players who've not set the heather alight at lower clubs. I can only remember us signing one decent player in January in recent years - sparky. And even he didn't settle immediately.
We never signed Griffiths in January. But there is no point in bringing players in who are no better than the ones you have. Butcher done that and whether he likes it or not he should be judged on that.

Hibeesmad
02-06-2014, 06:42 PM
Petrie and Dempster met Butcher after he told the players they would be leaving last Monday..he then refused to speak to any media (not like him)

Possibly Dempster told him then that he would be leaving the club or that the club will be considering his future? Giving him their final verdict on Friday?

Might be a load of rubbish but just a suggestion as to what's happening and may also be the reason behind no transfer business as of yet

Scouse Hibee
02-06-2014, 06:43 PM
Ive always been confused with this idea. In most other walks of life when someone become a manager of something; a shop, warehouse whatever ... they are expected to get better results with what is present, they dont just walk in and sack everyone to get there best pals in. So its always confused me that football manager have always been able to use this as an excuse to avoid being questioned on there initial stint at a club, to me butcher has failed and should have handed in his notice when he dragged a mid table team to relegation.

I do believe that a mid-table team was present there, notice that most of the regular player will end up at SPL teams that probably do well.


There's very little comparison with jobs in football and the real world of employment, massive payouts for failure and loss of your job is another remarkable achievement.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:43 PM
Or he was raging at the result from the day before and didn't want to talk to anybody? I know I never left the house.

Viva_Palmeiras
02-06-2014, 06:43 PM
I would have thought one of the questions any prospective Managerial candidate for the Hibs job would be asked so you have no budget and need to work with what you have - what do you do? And anyone that says "fit a team around my tried and tested system" is binned.

Strachan admitted he was wrong just as Potter was wrong and others before and after them will be. Assess the players and find a system to suit their capabilities before moving on. Really thought TB would have done better with the resources at his disposal.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 06:43 PM
Is LD gonna sack RP too?????? the only way the protest is going to stop is if RP goes,,,,,
victor

You never know :greengrin

greenpaper55
02-06-2014, 06:44 PM
The last paragraph from todays EN on Dempster ,

She is expected to face the media in the coming days and is also likely to meet Terry Butcher towards the end of the week.

Waxy
02-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Your right, but if he was being sacked he shouldn't have been allowed to do that. It's also been rumoured that he has told numerous players that they're free to find other clubs, if he was about to be sacked he also shouldn't have been allowed to do that.We're paying him.Might as well use him for something.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:45 PM
We never signed Griffiths in January. But there is no point in bringing players in who are no better than the ones you have. Butcher done that and whether he likes it or not he should be judged on that.

We did :wink:

We had to get his loan extended in one of the January windows.

Scouse Hibee
02-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Meanwhile other clubs consolidate by signing players.

Cropley10
02-06-2014, 06:46 PM
"The way for Dempster to prove she's in charge is to go against Petrie's statement and sack Butcher"

Rumour Butcher is to be sacked after Dempster takes over...

"It's Petrie trying to stop the protest"

Well spotted. Two situations that aren't mutually exclusive.

Rod gets an A for cunning, I'll say that

Waxy
02-06-2014, 06:47 PM
Perhaps STF got Petrie to Bring LD in.

heretoday
02-06-2014, 06:49 PM
Butcher should be sacked. He's lost the motivational power that he used to have.

There is no point trusting him in the transfer market. We'll just waste time and money doing that.

Get a young manager in - Lennon or Murray for god's sake.

Kato
02-06-2014, 06:50 PM
Petrie's scapegoat out, Petrie's scapegoat in. :aok:

Exactly. Manager after manager undermined and hung to dry. If Butcher goes and Petrie stays because RP is trying to "undermine" the protest then that would show the measure of the man.

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 06:50 PM
We're paying him.Might as well use him for something.

The problem is that if he's sacked, the new manager might come in and say why did we let Thomson go, or that Hanlon has got himself a better deal than the one he's on and doesn't want to stay. We could be leaving the next manager a real problem.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:53 PM
Butcher should be sacked. He's lost the motivational power that he used to have.

There is no point trusting him in the transfer market. We'll just waste time and money doing that.

Get a young manager in - Lennon or Murray for god's sake.

How do you know? Has he tried to motivate you in the recent past?

Viva_Palmeiras
02-06-2014, 06:54 PM
Butcher should be sacked. He's lost the motivational power that he used to have.

There is no point trusting him in the transfer market. We'll just waste time and money doing that.

Get a young manager in - Lennon or Murray for god's sake.

Cryptonite is green - no cooncidence you'll find I'm sure ;)

greenpaper55
02-06-2014, 06:56 PM
;4044938']How do you know? Has he tried to motivate you in the recent past?

Hes'e not paid to motivate the fans but to motivate the players, in this he has clearly failed.

SMAXXA
02-06-2014, 06:58 PM
I don't believe he is going to be sacked

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 06:59 PM
Hes'e not paid to motivate the fans but to motivate the players, in this he has clearly failed.

Nelson Mandela couldn't motivate those imposters.

heretoday
02-06-2014, 07:01 PM
;4044938']How do you know? Has he tried to motivate you in the recent past?

Yeah. He's motivated me to stay in Saturdays and watch Everton on the telly.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 07:02 PM
And aside from that surely a professional should be more than capable of motivating himself?

Case in example: millennium derby - watch the youtube videos. You'll see that the manager wasn't mentioned in any of the player interviews.

southsider
02-06-2014, 07:03 PM
He didn't need to sign great players in January all he needed to do was sign a couple of players good enough to keep us away from the relegation battle that we weren't even involved in in January.
If Petrie had coughed up the cash to buy Adam Rooney in January we would not have been relegated. FACT

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 07:03 PM
Yeah. He's motivated me to stay in Saturdays and watch Everton on the telly.

Very good.

I hope you continue to watch Everton when the good times come again.

Lewis77
02-06-2014, 07:10 PM
I hope he does go, he can afford it and then in dream world I'd have Roy Keane take charge. A) would annoy Celtic. B) He's mental enough to scare the team into playing well, which is what it needs, a firm kick up the arse!

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 07:14 PM
I hope he does go, he can afford it and then in dream world I'd have Roy Keane take charge. A) would annoy Celtic. B) He's mental enough to scare the team into playing well, which is what it needs, a firm kick up the arse!

They don't like a kick up the arse though! Apparently it was a foot up the arse that got us relegated..

We need to appoint someone cuddly and nice should butcher go. Maybe we should approach The Sun and ask for talks with Deidre.

Vini1875
02-06-2014, 07:19 PM
Is TB et al on half wages as well I wonder?

Waxy
02-06-2014, 07:21 PM
Could we get that countdown clock put up? yous know the one.Or is that a bit too nasty?

jacomo
02-06-2014, 07:21 PM
TB needs a chance to bring in his players and see what he does with his team. Hibs need to keep a manager at least 2 seasons. The club needs stability at this time. If there was a very wealthy benefactor who was going to gift our club millions of pounds then perhaps a change might succeed.

Sorry, I've peddled this line myself before but I can't buy into now. Had Butcher kept us up, he would have earned the right to make big changes and put together his team.

However, he failed miserably to steady the ship and assistant seemed to achieve little apart from p***ing people off. I think TB is a duffer, and his success at ICT will be the highlight of his managerial career.

Scouse Hibee
02-06-2014, 07:23 PM
If Petrie had coughed up the cash to buy Adam Rooney in January we would not have been relegated. FACT


Must be then!

Lewis77
02-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Could we get that countdown clock put up? yous know the one.Or is that a bit too nasty?



Please God Please can we get Rachel Riley also? I have never met her, but I can tell you now, I love her! I say love, what I'm really talking about is the best 20 seconds of bliss she'd ever have.

KDY Hibs
02-06-2014, 07:28 PM
I hope Butcher does not get sacked-still too early.

Northern Hibby
02-06-2014, 07:30 PM
We need to Back Butcher, Malpas & Marsella (BBMM), I think it's all about new blood appreciating the chance being given to them by the manager, rather just another new manager trying to change things on his own, everybody knows we need to change things, RP brought in LD before the drop so change was happening anyway, I think RP gambled by being too financially prudent, kinda the opposite of rangers & hearts, but with unfortunately the same outcome, maybe for that he needs to go, but I still think he did it with good intent, but agree to much emphasis was put on financial stability rather than football.

Waxy
02-06-2014, 07:32 PM
Please God Please can we get Rachel Riley also? I have never met her, but I can tell you now, I love her! I say love, what I'm really talking about is the best 20 seconds of bliss she'd ever have.I'd press the conundrum buzzer quicker than 20 seconds.

Kaiser1962
02-06-2014, 07:33 PM
"The way for Dempster to prove she's in charge is to go against Petrie's statement and sack Butcher"

Rumour Butcher is to be sacked after Dempster takes over...

"It's Petrie trying to stop the protest"

Its brilliant isn't it. :greengrin

EdinMike
02-06-2014, 07:35 PM
Is TB et al on half wages as well I wonder?

:hmmm:

RoslinInstHibby
02-06-2014, 07:38 PM
Please God Please can we get Rachel Riley also? I have never met her, but I can tell you now, I love her! I say love, what I'm really talking about is the best 20 seconds of bliss she'd ever have.

Class!

Fwiw i dont believe butcher will be sacked

Kaiser1962
02-06-2014, 07:44 PM
There's very little comparison with jobs in football and the real world of employment, massive payouts for failure and loss of your job is another remarkable achievement.

Agree with this and would add that the primary purpose of a business is to make money which is something that doesn't happen too often in football.

borstalboy
02-06-2014, 07:46 PM
Even if this does happen, it proves once again that Rod can't be trusted and should really leave the club!! I for one will not relent on the Petrie Out campaign!

Considering they both met with Butcher that day, when all the players were being released, why wouldn't they have just sacked him then?!....why leave it 2 weeks?....trying to pull the wool over our eyes if this does in fact happen, which I seriously have my doubts about anyway!

People should not be fooled!

Alfred E Newman
02-06-2014, 07:52 PM
;4044879']When have hibs or anybody else in our market made a great signing in January? You're looking at players with potential at bit clubs or players who've not set the heather alight at lower clubs. I can only remember us signing one decent player in January in recent years - sparky. And even he didn't settle immediately.

Aberdeen? In fact most of our bottom six rivals did.

Peevemor
02-06-2014, 07:54 PM
Even if this does happen, it proves once again that Rod can't be trusted and should really leave the club!! I for one will not relent on the Petrie Out campaign!

Considering they both met with Butcher that day, when all the players were being released, why wouldn't they have just sacked him then?!....why leave it 2 weeks?....trying to pull the wool over our eyes if this does in fact happen, which I seriously have my doubts about anyway!

People should not be fooled!

I don't understand your logic. RP will know TB a lot better than LD does. Maybe it's her that wants time to decide?

banchoryhibs
02-06-2014, 08:02 PM
Butcher had a chance to bring in players in January. He's been an unmitigated disaster and should already have been sacked. If getting hibs relegated from the position we were in when he took over isn't a stackable offence I'd love to know what is.

Totally agree:agree:

He had chance after chance to ensure that we survived in the top tier and failed every time; his style of football is horrendous; he fails to change tactics when they are obviously not working; he failed to bring any meaningful players in during the January window; Malpas spends more time swearing at fans than directing players on the pitch and the atmosphere in the camp was rotten - no wonder when he told everyone that they were crap and would be replaced in the summer.

If he was a man of integrity he would have resigned.

So why do we want to give him another chance?

The_Todd
02-06-2014, 08:04 PM
I'd be shocked but not surprised.

How does that work?

Onion
02-06-2014, 08:06 PM
I'd be shocked but not surprised. Petrie might use it to try stop folk going to the rally.

it'll not stop me going tho.

petrie out.

The latest sacrificial lamb. Fully deserved though.

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 08:06 PM
I don't believe he is going to be sacked

Does he do walking away though?

Peevemor
02-06-2014, 08:06 PM
How does that work?

Maybe like when you stick your fingers into an empty light bulb socket? :dunno:

lord bunberry
02-06-2014, 08:07 PM
How does that work?

Via the medium of electricity.

SouthamptonHibs
02-06-2014, 08:08 PM
Happy days, I was gonna avoid the beer this weekend but if him and Malpas get punted I'll have a few pints. Wage thiefs

Waxy
02-06-2014, 08:10 PM
How does that work?You pee on a lampost.

staunchhibby
02-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Where is Malpas hiding during this debacle

Cropley10
02-06-2014, 08:15 PM
How does that work?

:tee hee:

Heedersnvolleys
02-06-2014, 08:18 PM
You pee on a lampost.

I think if he had held his water until Wednesday or Thursday we might have believed him, I hope so but can't see it!

jacomo
02-06-2014, 08:30 PM
The latest sacrificial lamb. Fully deserved though.

Sacrificial mutton, really.

TheFamous1875
02-06-2014, 08:31 PM
Most clubs supplement their squads in January in accordance with injuries, style of play, etc. We haven't had a balanced squad since 2007. You're very rarely going to find main players to build your squad around in a January window. Most good players are only available in the summer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Wont be at all surprised if he does go

I can understand completely too, and think he will be lucky to keep his job

I dont want him to go though

He has built up teams in the past. I trust a huge amount of leg work has went into signings for this year (some will probably not come now, but some still will im sure).

If he is punted on Friday - we have what, 4 weeks or so until pre season starts?

How could we possibly appoint a new manager and assemble a whole new squad in that amount of time?

I have alot of doubts about Butcher (even tho I absolutely blame the shambles of a squad more than him), but I also worry about what the alternative is

I hope he stays and is backed

bingo70
02-06-2014, 08:43 PM
Wont be at all surprised if he does go

I can understand completely too, and think he will be lucky to keep his job

I dont want him to go though

He has built up teams in the past. I trust a huge amount of leg work has went into signings for this year (some will probably not come now, but some still will im sure).

If he is punted on Friday - we have what, 4 weeks or so until pre season starts?

How could we possibly appoint a new manager and assemble a whole new squad in that amount of time?

I have alot of doubts about Butcher (even tho I absolutely blame the shambles of a squad more than him), but I also worry about what the alternative is

I hope he stays and is backed

He's not built up good teams in the past, he built up one good team. Even then let's no get carried away, they weren't anything special.

Butcher is far more experienced at destroying teams.

4 weeks till pre season starts is a much better time to appoint a new manager than 10 games into the season when the transfer window is closed

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 08:58 PM
He's not built up good teams in the past, he built up one good team. Even then let's no get carried away, they weren't anything special.

Butcher is far more experienced at destroying teams.

4 weeks till pre season starts is a much better time to appoint a new manager than 10 games into the season when the transfer window is closed

Cant agree with that - Caley were punching way above there weight

He done a remarkable job there

He had 2 years out of football from 2007 - 2009 (Brentford to Inverness)

Whos to say he didnt improve over that time etc?

Similar to Mixu (im sure people would take him back now)

He might be poor next year - but I think he has less chance of that that appointing a new manager (and who would that be/who can we realistically afford now?)

For me, if he goes - I wont have many complaints, but will understand the boards decision

I just hope he stays

Either way, in for an interesting league next year - im actually really looking forward to see how it pans out

3pm
02-06-2014, 09:12 PM
Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!

'Not revealing my source' ....because I don't have one.

Hermit Crab
02-06-2014, 09:12 PM
Don't believe this rumour to be honest and I'd be disappointed if he does get sacked. He's on holidays apparently so no decision will have been made about his employment in my opinion.

BroxburnHibee
02-06-2014, 09:13 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.

Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 09:15 PM
Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

Bit harsh no?

Guy passes on info he has heard - stating he doesnt think its 100%

Plenty other people who are usually spot on have been wrong in the past - doesnt mean they were launched!

oldbutdim
02-06-2014, 09:16 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.

I'm sorry to hear that son.

I'm not the full shilling either.
:Ummm:

ehf
02-06-2014, 09:16 PM
He didn't need to sign great players in January all he needed to do was sign a couple of players good enough to keep us away from the relegation battle that we weren't even involved in in January.

That's the bottom line for me; St Mirren, Partick, Ross County and Killie all signed players who made a difference. We didn't. For that alone, Butcher should go.

BroxburnHibee
02-06-2014, 09:18 PM
Bit harsh no?

Guy passes on info he has heard - stating he doesnt think its 100%

Plenty other people who are usually spot on have been wrong in the past - doesnt mean they were launched!

When has this guy been spot on before? Feel free to point it out to me.

Winston Ingram
02-06-2014, 09:22 PM
He's not built up good teams in the past, he built up one good team. Even then let's no get carried away, they weren't anything special.

Butcher is far more experienced at destroying teams.

4 weeks till pre season starts is a much better time to appoint a new manager than 10 games into the season when the transfer window is closed

This.

The incessant p!sh that he was a success story at ICT is laughable. 1 above average season is all he managed. It's not as if he won anything. He finished 4th. It's decent but hardly manager of the year material.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 09:28 PM
When has this guy been spot on before? Feel free to point it out to me.

Yer a plonker. I'm spot on there :greengrin

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 09:29 PM
I'm sorry to hear that son.

I'm not the full shilling either.
:Ummm:

I think we're all going through that stage ATM

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 09:31 PM
Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

Out of where? You going to throw me out? I don't want an apology. Even if it's turns out to be incorrect, I'm still a hibee and I'm still going to post on here. I won't name and shame the person that told me, cause I personally don't think there's much chance of it happening. Just thought I'd pass it on incase anyone else heard something similar.

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 09:32 PM
When has this guy been spot on before? Feel free to point it out to me.

Does that really matter?

Or is it only people with x amount of post or a track record that can post rumours?

Be a pretty quiet forum if thats the case

SuperAllyMcleod
02-06-2014, 09:33 PM
Wont be at all surprised if he does go

I can understand completely too, and think he will be lucky to keep his job

I dont want him to go though

He has built up teams in the past. I trust a huge amount of leg work has went into signings for this year (some will probably not come now, but some still will im sure).

If he is punted on Friday - we have what, 4 weeks or so until pre season starts?

How could we possibly appoint a new manager and assemble a whole new squad in that amount of time?

I have alot of doubts about Butcher (even tho I absolutely blame the shambles of a squad more than him), but I also worry about what the alternative is

I hope he stays and is backed

I couldn't agree more - I remember how ICT played against us before Butcher arrived and it was just how I'd like to see Hibs play.

That was a team that he (plus Malpas etc) built - it didn't happen overnight though but you could see the difference in them once Yogi took over - they were going backwards.

Ok, Butcher made the mistake of being honest with some Hibs players too early but it was something all the fans were thinking.

Of the team that played in the last few weeks of the season (taking the players under 21 out of the argument) there was one, maybe two, players that I wanted to keep. The rest were just not good enough.

The fact that we are screaming for his head only goes to show the additional pressure that we place on our manager and players. I hate to say it but the Yams have shown what unity can do for the team this year - hopefully that won't last as Budget starts to control the spending.

All that said, we are Hibs and it wouldn't surprise me if we sacked him or he walked, I just hope we give him the time he needs - the turnover of managers is getting embarrassing.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 09:36 PM
Does that really matter?

Or is it only people with x amount of post or a track record that can post rumours?

Be a pretty quiet forum if thats the case

Exactly. I've Clearly stated it's a rumour. A wild one at best. I'll get pelters if it doesn't happen. But that's the chance you take posting a Chinese whisper. I'm sure I'll handle it!

Winston Ingram
02-06-2014, 09:39 PM
Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

Is that how it works here now? Posting an unoffensive rumour that an admin doesn't like then they get binned?:confused:

Hibby 2005
02-06-2014, 09:43 PM
Exactly. I've Clearly stated it's a rumour. A wild one at best. I'll get pelters if it doesn't happen. But that's the chance you take posting a Chinese whisper. I'm sure I'll handle it!

Where are all the guys In The Know?

Rumours, whispers, Greggs, it must be summertime!

Is Petrie still here?

NOLA
02-06-2014, 09:44 PM
in the financial climate we find ourselves in theres no way we can afford to sack butcher and his backroom staff.

Steven_Hibs
02-06-2014, 09:46 PM
Is that how it works here now? Posting an unoffensive rumour that an admin doesn't like then they get binned?:confused:

Unreal if true!?

cleanyman
02-06-2014, 09:46 PM
Its too late to sack Butcher.

It should have been done 26th May at the very latest.

One Day Soon
02-06-2014, 09:46 PM
This.

The incessant p!sh that he was a success story at ICT is laughable. 1 above average season is all he managed. It's not as if he won anything. He finished 4th. It's decent but hardly manager of the year material.

He finished 4th with frikkin ICT. That is quite an achievement.

3pm
02-06-2014, 09:49 PM
One of the 'in the know' folk like Bob Marley's Dug will know. Boaby?

BOB MARLEYS DUG
02-06-2014, 09:52 PM
One of the 'in the know' folk like Bob Marley's Dug will know. Boaby?

Not heard anything mate.

silverhibee
02-06-2014, 09:54 PM
That's the soonest that she can meet with Butcher to discuss future plans/proposals. He's on hols. This will help with stopping the protest!


No it won't, it would add more to the attendance on Saturday.

Lester B
02-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Mr Butcher could go on gardening leave. It would cost us a weekly wage until he finds new employment when perhaps a 3 month severence package could be agreed. TB wont want to be out the game long so he may be employed again quite soon.

To describe that scenario as unlikely would be charitable. It's not how employment contracts in football work. Ever seen that happen before? There's a reason why you haven't.

silverhibee
02-06-2014, 09:59 PM
I don't believe he is going to be sacked

Neither do i.

Winston Ingram
02-06-2014, 10:00 PM
He finished 4th with frikkin ICT. That is quite an achievement.

It's alright. It's not uncommon for clubs of that size to finish there or thereabouts. That season, clubs of similar size like Motherwell & St J finished 2nd & 3rd. They finished a point ahead of Ross C who'd only just got promoted. All 3 are a hell of a lot more impressive. It's decent but hardly wow.

silverhibee
02-06-2014, 10:01 PM
Must be then!


Defo :agree:

Winston Ingram
02-06-2014, 10:02 PM
Its too late to sack Butcher.

It should have been done 26th May at the very latest.

There's still 2 months til the season starts. There's plenty time to bin him. The new boss only started today.

steakbake
02-06-2014, 10:05 PM
Might be a relegation clause in the contract? Or is that just on football manager?

snooky
02-06-2014, 10:15 PM
That's the bottom line for me; St Mirren, Partick, Ross County and Killie all signed players who made a difference. We didn't. For that alone, Butcher should go.

:agree: Inexcusable.

WHUHibs
02-06-2014, 10:28 PM
Perhaps he couldn't sign the right people due to lack of funds provided!

Not sure TB was able to do much with his hands tied , might be wrong but that's my gut feeling!

Baldy Foghorn
02-06-2014, 10:33 PM
Perhaps he couldn't sign the right people due to lack of funds provided!

Not sure TB was able to do much with his hands tied , might be wrong but that's my gut feeling!

Indeed, 3 loan "signings" on last day, not an ounce of quality amongst them........

RIP Bestie
02-06-2014, 10:33 PM
;4044924']We did :wink:

We had to get his loan extended in one of the January windows.
Aye ok. Very good. :top marks

Lester B
02-06-2014, 10:34 PM
Perhaps he couldn't sign the right people due to lack of funds provided!

Not sure TB was able to do much with his hands tied , might be wrong but that's my gut feeling!

Or perhaps he is nowhere as good as a manager as he clearly thinks he is? That's not a gut feeling. That's based on watching the last few months.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 10:48 PM
Aye ok. Very good. :top marks

Kind of sums up how poor or January windows tend to be under every manager.

Hibernia&Alba
02-06-2014, 11:05 PM
;4044949']Nelson Mandela couldn't motivate those imposters.

The dead Nelson Mandela is more inspirational than Butcher. The man has totally failed, and I hope the OP is correct.

WHUHibs
02-06-2014, 11:25 PM
Or perhaps he is nowhere as good as a manager as he clearly thinks he is? That's not a gut feeling. That's based on watching the last few months.

I just think there is so much wrong with the club that it's not all down to him,,, he was an inspiration on the pitch for England and his clubs,,therefore I believe that he should be able to communicate this as a manager.

We have all seen under performing managers and often go in to better things,, if the club was in good shape I'm sure he would be able to improve the team.

Ronniekirk
02-06-2014, 11:27 PM
On Friday after meeting with Leanne. Not revealing source. As I'm not 100%.
Lee Ann did say in her Statement she would be Ruthless

JCHibby
02-06-2014, 11:28 PM
I couldn't agree more - I remember how ICT played against us before Butcher arrived and it was just how I'd like to see Hibs play.

That was a team that he (plus Malpas etc) built - it didn't happen overnight though but you could see the difference in them once Yogi took over - they were going backwards.

Ok, Butcher made the mistake of being honest with some Hibs players too early but it was something all the fans were thinking.

Of the team that played in the last few weeks of the season (taking the players under 21 out of the argument) there was one, maybe two, players that I wanted to keep. The rest were just not good enough.

The fact that we are screaming for his head only goes to show the additional pressure that we place on our manager and players. I hate to say it but the Yams have shown what unity can do for the team this year - hopefully that won't last as Budget starts to control the spending.

All that said, we are Hibs and it wouldn't surprise me if we sacked him or he walked, I just hope we give him the time he needs - the turnover of managers is getting embarrassing.


Great post... Got to stick with this guy, backwards step but blank canvas to work from.

The_Horde
02-06-2014, 11:33 PM
I just think there is so much wrong with the club that it's not all down to him,,, he was an inspiration on the pitch for England and his clubs,,therefore I believe that he should be able to communicate this as a manager.

We have all seen under performing managers and often go in to better things,, if the club was in good shape I'm sure he would be able to improve the team.

He's not covered himself in glory at all in our relegation fight but too many people are avoiding blaming the players. That lot couldn't be motivated because they were **** scared of playing in front of an expectant crowd and they'll go nowhere in the game.

Butcher has previous for building teams to win the championship, he's also good at getting into players minds and creating a siege mentality.

Sacking another manager will leave us at square one. This manager has already identified a plan of action and I think we're in a position where we have to go with it and back him.

I think the alternative is worse. We already have a smaller budget than we require (apparently) and sacking Terry and his team would leave us in a worse position than we are in now.

Scottie
02-06-2014, 11:34 PM
I just think there is so much wrong with the club that it's not all down to him,,, he was an inspiration on the pitch for England and his clubs,,therefore I believe that he should be able to communicate this as a manager.

We have all seen under performing managers and often go in to better things,, if the club was in good shape I'm sure he would be able to improve the team.

Just because your an inspiration player dosen't make you an inspirational manager

Callum_62
02-06-2014, 11:36 PM
;4045393']He's not covered himself in glory at all in our relegation fight but too many people are avoiding blaming the players. That lot couldn't be motivated because they were **** scared of playing in front of an expectant crowd and they'll go nowhere in the game.

Butcher has previous for building teams to win the championship, he's also good at getting into players minds and creating a siege mentality.

Sacking another manager will leave us at square one. This manager has already identified a plan of action and I think we're in a position where we have to go with it and back him.

:agree:

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 01:31 AM
It doesn't matter that he can influence players to work hard, siege mentality, building a team for promotion.

His 'Style' of football is the reason Scotland haven't qualified for a major tournament since 98
Its the reason guys like Jim Goodwin and Ross Tokely get signed for clubs
Its the reason big lads are signed by Hutchy Vale at 13 instead of the more talented wee fella
Its the reason centre mids need neck surgery at the end of a season due to watching the ball bypass them.

Him and his dinosaur football can grab its drum and F*****g beat it. Its not the way football should be played now and this club won't get another penny from me if its continued to play like that. But its not about me, 18k of us shouldn't be put through it.

I wouldn't even mind us finishing 4th/5th next season if it meant we had any semblance of long term plan with youth development, and style of play beginning with the 5 year olds. It is totally wrong that the under 18s and under 21's can be asked to play fluid, passing football then when they reach the first team Butcher says "right lads, get stuck right in". Its the most depressing thing in football for me.

I understand when there are financial constraints.
Celtic physically can't beat a Barcelona playing flowing football cause they don't have the same standard of player. So they tweak their strengths and battle for a win. Same with Scotland against a team like France.

However there is no excuse for not even attempting flowing football when you are playing absolutely diddies in a pennyless league. Managers that come out with "its only results that matter" e.g. Allardyce are just interested in saving their own skin and showing blatant disrespect to fans.

Butcher and managers of his ilk, OUT.

Ahh and breath...

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 02:00 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but I'd urge you to look at any ICT highlights of the past 2-3 seasons. It's not the kind of "dinosaur football" you describe.

HoboHarry
03-06-2014, 02:06 AM
;4045414']You're entitled to your opinion but I'd urge you to look at any ICT highlights of the past 2-3 seasons. It's not the kind of "dinosaur football" you describe.
You are way too level headed and sensible for this site. :aok:

The Green Goblin
03-06-2014, 02:10 AM
Lee Ann did say in her Statement she would be Ruthless

Maybe she'll sack Petrie :greengrin

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:11 AM
I refuse to believe Harris, Craig, and Robertson completely lost their ability to control and pass a ball. I realise confidence played a part but who's fault was it for eroding their confidence. A Mr Terry Butcher.

Even though it seems for some that the answer is The Fans which is just utterly ludicrous considering the backing we gave the team at Partick, Killie and Hamilton.

Edit: And i'd like to think I'm being calm and rationale here tbh

HoboHarry
03-06-2014, 02:17 AM
I refuse to believe Harris, Craig, and Robertson completely lost their ability to control and pass a ball. I realise confidence played a part but who's fault was it for eroding their confidence. A Mr Terry Butcher.

Even though it seems for some that the answer is The Fans which is just utterly ludicrous considering the backing we gave the team at Partick, Killie and Hamilton.

Edit: And i'd like to think I'm being calm and rationale here tbh
What specifically did TB do to take away their ability to control and pass a ball?

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 02:22 AM
I refuse to believe Harris, Craig, and Robertson completely lost their ability to control and pass a ball. I realise confidence played a part but who's fault was it for eroding their confidence. A Mr Terry Butcher.

Even though it seems for some that the answer is The Fans which is just utterly ludicrous considering the backing we gave the team at Partick, Killie and Hamilton.

Edit: And i'd like to think I'm being calm and rationale here tbh

Yep big bad butcher took their confidence away.

Any player who has the ability to make it at the top level should have an arrogance and a confidence to play regardless of what any fan, manager or pundit has to say about them.

We had a squad of chicken hearted "professionals" who's confidence was shot long before Butcher got here.

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:22 AM
What specifically did TB do to take away their ability to control and pass a ball?

He instructed Craig to get the ball directly from throw ins and hoof it down the line or to a striker. This is rather than just pivoting an passing to a CM

Part of his "get it up the pitch into attacking areas" nonsense. I believe he actually said that quote when he first joined Hibs about the fact the ball is in more attacking areas puts pressure on defenders. No Terry, running at defenders with the ball and playing through balls puts them under pressure.

Sorry i know we'll disagree but I think he's a total trumpet. I really wish it will work though :(

HoboHarry
03-06-2014, 02:25 AM
He instructed Craig to get the ball directly from throw ins and hoof it down the line or to a striker. This is rather than just pivoting an passing to a CM
Part of his "get it up the pitch into attacking areas" nonsense.
Ok - so a player of Craigs ability lost his confidence because he had been told to pass it longer than he was accustomed to? Have I got that right?

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:27 AM
Ok - so a player of Craigs ability lost his confidence because he had been told to pass it longer than he was accustomed to? Have I got that right?

There's a difference between a long guided pass and a blind hoofed clearance. Craig's passing for the last 6 months was the latter.

Basically i don't believe Butcher is the type of manager that will get his team playing a long 'pass' not a long 'ball'. He is more interested in putting a ball into an attacking area than proper position.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 02:29 AM
Because he's a *****bag with no composure. Hence he's getting the heave.

HoboHarry
03-06-2014, 02:29 AM
There's a difference between a long guided pass and a blind hoofed clearance. Craig's passing for the last 6 months was the latter.
Well I don't see that but I still go back to my question - how did that impact on Craig's confidence? A good player can do both of these things.

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:31 AM
Well I don't see that but I still go back to my question - how did that impact on Craig's confidence? A good player can do both of these things.

Sorry i've added a wee extra bit in after an edit. It looks like we are gonna have to agree to disagree bud.

But I do think Liam Craig will prove people wrong at another Scottish Premiership club. And you can quote me on that :wink:

California-Hibs
03-06-2014, 02:33 AM
I think we'll be making a huge mistake letting Butcher go. As mentioned, look at how Inverness played football the last 2-3 years, it was far from how described on here!

We can't afford to sack Butcher, by doing so we'll be taking away a massive chunk of our cash to use on players. We need stability and to give a manager a few years instead of comstantly changing!

Also, by sacking him it would severely hurt our perpetration for the new season, depending on how long it would then take to find a replacement.

Really hoping this isn't true and he stays. I don't care if I'm in the minority with my opinion.

RIP Bestie
03-06-2014, 02:36 AM
It doesn't matter that he can influence players to work hard, siege mentality, building a team for promotion.

His 'Style' of football is the reason Scotland haven't qualified for a major tournament since 98
Its the reason guys like Jim Goodwin and Ross Tokely get signed for clubs
Its the reason big lads are signed by Hutchy Vale at 13 instead of the more talented wee fella
Its the reason centre mids need neck surgery at the end of a season due to watching the ball bypass them.

Him and his dinosaur football can grab its drum and F*****g beat it. Its not the way football should be played now and this club won't get another penny from me if its continued to play like that. But its not about me, 18k of us shouldn't be put through it.

I wouldn't even mind us finishing 4th/5th next season if it meant we had any semblance of long term plan with youth development, and style of play beginning with the 5 year olds. It is totally wrong that the under 18s and under 21's can be asked to play fluid, passing football then when they reach the first team Butcher says "right lads, get stuck right in". Its the most depressing thing in football for me.

I understand when there are financial constraints.
Celtic physically can't beat a Barcelona playing flowing football cause they don't have the same standard of player. So they tweak their strengths and battle for a win. Same with Scotland against a team like France.

However there is no excuse for not even attempting flowing football when you are playing absolutely diddies in a pennyless league. Managers that come out with "its only results that matter" e.g. Allardyce are just interesting in saving their own skin and showing blatant disrespect to fans.

Butcher and managers of his ilk, OUT.

Ahh and breath...
I agree wholeheartedly with most of this.
firstly I would say that it is vitally important for us as a club to finish in the top three next season to at least give us a chance of promotion to the premiership.
i think the problem with Scottish Football is very deep rooted.
Everyone seems to have gone into Hedgehog mode and we seem to have accepted that we are third rate and have adopted a very defensive and gutless stance.
You are 100% correct in your assessment of some of the players who are making careers out of the game when in essence if truth be told they couldn't kick snow of a dyke. But that is nothing new as the likes of Tom Forsyth, Peter Grant and Doug Rougvie made very good careers out of their respective clubs and enjoyed a fair degree of success. Some Hibs supporters would rather see a McPake than a Thomson and that for me says a lot of what our expectation of the beautiful game has come down to in Scotland.
This is why we are seeing the likes of Inverness coming to the fore in Scottish Football. They have adapted to this better than we have. Their whole foundation was built on the big guys, we have never been able to handle that. Our record against them has been appalling. Since then they have adapted their style slightly but I have never thought that they were all that great to watch. I know a lot on here will disagree with that but that's maybe down to how low our expectations have become.
Look at Celtic, they are taking the piss. They are going out and buying all these unknown players on the back of promising them exposure at Champions League level with the sole intention of selling them on to the highest bidder. It's a great business model for them but it's not doing much for the game as a whole here. When was the last time Celtic paid a fee to a Scottish club for a player? In fact outwith celtic and Wanyama, when was the last big transfer from a Scottish club?
We as a nation have always had to play the underdog and fight our corner, but we have always managed to produce a gem or two. There is nobody in Scottish Football who is a native that I have been excited about for a number of years, the ones I have been have probably pished their own careers away.x
You look at the boy Mackay-Stevens, who wasn't impressed with him when he broke into the Dundee United team? How exciting would it have been to watch a team that could get the ball out to him so that he could produce some magic and create chances or score goals? That doesn't happen here we don't adapt to good players, good players have to adapt to the football we play here. He should have been a stand out player in our League, now he's just another statistic.
there are times when it is more important to get the result in football, unfortunately it is more the norm here and if truth be told I would reluctantly accept 36 one nil victories next season.

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:38 AM
Inverness CT were a little like Hibs Fenlon 2012-13 team. You might laugh but hear me out!

They had a strong bunch of pro's with a few young pacy lads then a superstar leading the line. Meekings and Warren were better than Hanlon and Mcpake.
Doran was better than Harris and Shinnie was better than Wotherspoon.

Mckay was their Griffiths and put away the goals. The lads they had in midfield like Draper, Tudor Jones, Foran are much of a muchness with Thomson, inform Deegan and Claros imo.

RIP Bestie
03-06-2014, 02:44 AM
Inverness CT were a little like Hibs Fenlon 2012-13 team. You might laugh but hear me out!

They had a strong bunch of pro's with a few young pacy lads then a superstar leading the line. Meekings and Warren were better than Hanlon and Mcpake.
Doran was better than Harris and Shinnie was better than Wotherspoon.

Mckay was their Griffiths and put away the goals. The lads they had in midfield like Draper, Tudor Jones, Foran are much of a muchness with Thomson, inform Deegan and Claros imo.
The players you mention for the probably all knew their jobs. And were probably played to their strengths, can we seriously say that the Hibs players you have mentioned could feel the same way?

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 02:46 AM
The players you mention for the probably all knew their jobs. And were probably played to their strengths, can we seriously say that the Hibs players you have mentioned could feel the same way?


Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!

RIP Bestie
03-06-2014, 03:22 AM
Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!
I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 03:27 AM
[/B]I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

Literally. :boo hoo:

Beefster
03-06-2014, 05:43 AM
Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

If you binned everyone who posts rumours and gets them wrong, it would be scoops and Brooster left.

NOLA
03-06-2014, 08:52 AM
I think we'll be making a huge mistake letting Butcher go. As mentioned, look at how Inverness played football the last 2-3 years, it was far from how described on here!

We can't afford to sack Butcher, by doing so we'll be taking away a massive chunk of our cash to use on players. We need stability and to give a manager a few years instead of comstantly changing!

Also, by sacking him it would severely hurt our perpetration for the new season, depending on how long it would then take to find a replacement.

Really hoping this isn't true and he stays. I don't care if I'm in the minority with my opinion.
have to agree with all that :agree:

Speedway
03-06-2014, 09:08 AM
If you binned everyone who posts rumours and gets them wrong, it would be scoops and Brooster left.

And Big-Mo

Lester B
03-06-2014, 09:09 AM
What specifically did TB do to take away their ability to control and pass a ball?

Specifically? No idea. But as I keep saying here, there and everywhere, he made a mediocre team into a truly appalling one. That is objectively observable. I cannot see how anyone can keep defending that man.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 09:27 AM
I just think there is so much wrong with the club that it's not all down to him,,, he was an inspiration on the pitch for England and his clubs,,therefore I believe that he should be able to communicate this as a manager.

We have all seen under performing managers and often go in to better things,, if the club was in good shape I'm sure he would be able to improve the team.

Certainly he should be able to motivate and inspire. He clearly can't.

My old man had a fascinating theory that managers were often very different beasts in that role than they were as players. Tony M was a meat and potatoes centre half but his teams played purist, passing football. Butcher was an inspirational figure as a player. From the touchline he huffs, puffs and shouts but as far as I can make out he couldn't motivate a bulimic to have a sandwich

Nailrod
03-06-2014, 09:32 AM
Specifically? No idea. But as I keep saying here, there and everywhere, he made a mediocre team into a truly appalling one. That is objectively observable. I cannot see how anyone can keep defending that man.
The worrying thought is that clearly Butcher had no idea what he was doing either. Otherwise he would have stopped doing it, and done something different.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 09:34 AM
[/B]I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 09:38 AM
;4045716']Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

weonlywon6-2
03-06-2014, 09:39 AM
Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!

The one big difference between hibs and inverness is the size of the support and the expectations.butcher was not facing thousands of fans clambering for his head when he took caley down,they probably dont expect to much there ,at hibs very different story.
The pressure now on but her to turn things around is huge ,far more than anything he experienced at caley

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 09:40 AM
No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

You can't tell me they don't?

They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned. Then big bad Butcher told one or two they weren't in his plans and yet again they downed tools. Almost going through 2 managers in one season.

MrRobot
03-06-2014, 09:54 AM
No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

What is it he's done likes? Other than telling them they were leaving.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 10:00 AM
;4045732']You can't tell me they don't?

They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned. Then big bad Butcher told one or two they weren't in his plans and yet again they downed tools. Almost going through 2 managers in one season.

I can tell you that they don't. I am telling you that they don't. I need evidence that they do. Do you have it? They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned? That simple was it?

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 10:01 AM
;4045716']Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

ehf
03-06-2014, 10:08 AM
People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

:agree:

Any other club, he and his nutjob sidekick would have been huckled off the premises within minutes of Cummings missing his penalty.

The yams and St Mirren have just sacked better managers, FFS.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:09 AM
I can tell you that they don't. I am telling you that they don't. I need evidence that they do. Do you have it? They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned? That simple was it?

Pat said it himself.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 10:10 AM
;4045762']Pat said it himself.

Whiich makes it totally true then? Right.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:14 AM
People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:15 AM
Whiich makes it totally true then? Right.

What's the truth then?

I expect a factual answer with a good source referenced to back it up.

Winston Ingram
03-06-2014, 10:17 AM
Sorry i've added a wee extra bit in after an edit. It looks like we are gonna have to agree to disagree bud.

But I do think Liam Craig will prove people wrong at another Scottish Premiership club. And you can quote me on that :wink:

Quote me on that as well. As soon as he returns to the position he played when we decided to sign him and add a manager that doesn't tell him he's *****e on a regular basis and he'll quickly return to his best.:agree:

Speedway
03-06-2014, 10:17 AM
;4045771']And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

Butcher needs a six year contract.

Carol Thatcher needs to be the new Chairman

We need to re-name the ground the 'Mercer Stadium' as it was him that got Hibbys off their ***** in the 90s and got STF in. We owe him all of our hearts for that.

Then we bring in Billy Brown because we've been strugglin' and no-one understands that more than him.

Skacel should be our new attacking coach, he'd give us the advantage in the championship by a nose.

THEN we're ready for the new season.

Peevemor
03-06-2014, 10:20 AM
;4045771']And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

I agree with the bit in bold but part of me also wants to bin him.

I'm totally scunnered! :confused:

chrisski33
03-06-2014, 10:22 AM
No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

How about looking at how the players have treated this club and us fans! Ffs poor little players who were told they werent in hibs plans. Sick of this lets feel sorry for how the players have been treated chat. The players are part of how we got relegated!

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 10:23 AM
;4045771']And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.
We were rubbish to watch when Butcher arrived but we were still doing enoug to pick up wins here and there. After initially looking like he was turning things round he made us rubbish to watch again, without being able to pick up results. 1 win after the new year derby is a shocking record, to lose over 2 legs to Hamilton is even worse.
I suspect he is going to be given the chance to make up for the mess he's created and obviously I hope he does get us promoted, but I will always be of the opinion that getting us relegated is a sackable offence.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:26 AM
I agree with the bit in bold but part of me also wants to bin him.

I'm totally scunnered! :confused:

I know how you feel mate. I was 50/50 immediately after relegation but when I started thinking more rationally I came to the conclusion that sticking with Butcher gives us the best chance of coming back up.

If he were sacked we'd have no money for players and we'd be bringing in a new guy who'd be starting from scratch. He'd need to identify players and work out who needs to go out of the players who are still here and that could take weeks. Even at that they're only going to get to see the players in non competitive matches.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:28 AM
We were rubbish to watch when Butcher arrived but we were still doing enoug to pick up wins here and there. After initially looking like he was turning things round he made us rubbish to watch again, without being able to pick up results. 1 win after the new year derby is a shocking record, to lose over 2 legs to Hamilton is even worse.
I suspect he is going to be given the chance to make up for the mess he's created and obviously I hope he does get us promoted, but I will always be of the opinion that getting us relegated is a sackable offence.

Picking up wins where? Pretty sure Pat left after a string of not very good performances with HIS team that HE built.

Pat Fenlon's gutless players are what got us relegated.

Peevemor
03-06-2014, 10:31 AM
;4045794']I know how you feel mate. I was 50/50 immediately after relegation but when I started thinking more rationally I came to the conclusion that sticking with Butcher gives us the best chance of coming back up.

If he were sacked we'd have no money for players and we'd be bringing in a new guy who'd be starting from scratch. He'd need to identify players and work out who needs to go out of the players who are still here and that could take weeks. Even at that they're only going to get to see the players in non competitive matches.

:agree:

For me, it's the work already carried out in scouting new players (and Marsella's apparent
knack for this) which is the strongest argument for TB staying in the job.

Hibs7
03-06-2014, 10:35 AM
:agree:

For me, it's the work already carried out in scouting new players (and Marsella's apparent
knack for this) which is the strongest argument for TB staying in the job.

This is the only reason Butcher should stay, if he does not have Hibs in the top 3 consistently next season then he gets dumped at Xmas.

MWHIBBIES
03-06-2014, 10:35 AM
;4045796']Picking up wins where? Pretty sure Pat left after a string of not very good performances with HIS team that HE built.

Pat Fenlon's gutless players are what got us relegated.Weren't Pat Fenlons gutless players when Pat was here though, many on here thought he had put a decent squad together.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 10:38 AM
Weren't Pat Fenlons gutless players when Pat was here though, many on here thought he had put a decent squad together.

On paper they were a decent squad of players. Football isn't played on paper though and they all turned out to be bottle merchants. The squad was also very unbalanced (no wide players apart from Harris, no recognised right back and hardly any centre back cover. Also no creativity in the middle of the park)

Baker9
03-06-2014, 10:39 AM
We were rubbish to watch when Butcher arrived but we were still doing enoug to pick up wins here and there. After initially looking like he was turning things round he made us rubbish to watch again, without being able to pick up results. 1 win after the new year derby is a shocking record, to lose over 2 legs to Hamilton is even worse.
I suspect he is going to be given the chance to make up for the mess he's created and obviously I hope he does get us promoted, but I will always be of the opinion that getting us relegated is a sackable offence.

Any right-thinking manager and his 'management team' should have been able to get us the points to stay up. The proverbial 11 dustbins could have done it. Having been delighted at his original appointment - sack him.

heretoday
03-06-2014, 10:45 AM
Watching Hibs on "Sick Sunday" it struck me that the players had great difficulty controlling the bouncing ball. Hamilton seemed to have the ability, or the will, to get the thing under control better.

Maybe the ground staff could have let the grass grow a bit longer to cushion the ball and stop it bouncing so high.

Having said that we were only seconds from staying up.

jacomo
03-06-2014, 10:52 AM
I agree with the bit in bold but part of me also wants to bin him.

I'm totally scunnered! :confused:

In my mind the only reasons for keeping him are negative i.e.

We don't have long to build a new team before the season starts.

We don't want to change yet another manager and keep this hiring/firing cycle going.

I am always supportive towards a new manager and welcomed TB - partly cos he had a big character and could hopefully handle the job, partly cos he was bringing his trusted assistants with him and would hopefully settle in quickly.

However, the scale of his failure last term really was unforgivable, given the cards he was dealt. Pat left him with enough that relegation should not have been an issue.

I also just don't think TB 'gets us' or what makes Hibs tick. His man management, player selection and tactics are all worrying. Malpas seems like a radge, and their squad additions in January possibly did more harm than good.

On balance I want rid. To me, his appointment has been a terribly costly mistake. I'd be slightly reassured if he had been on the front foot this week, telling us why it went wrong last term and what his plan is to dig us out of trouble. But we've had complete silence...

Keith_M
03-06-2014, 11:06 AM
Please God Please can we get Rachel Riley also? I have never met her, but I can tell you now, I love her! I say love, what I'm really talking about is the best 20 seconds of bliss she'd ever have.

Butcher Out - Rachel Riley In.




12692

Captain Trips
03-06-2014, 11:14 AM
Hope it is true. Dreadful manager at Hibs.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 11:16 AM
;4045796']Picking up wins where? Pretty sure Pat left after a string of not very good performances with HIS team that HE built.

Pat Fenlon's gutless players are what got us relegated.

We were 5th in the league when fenlon left, we had dropped to 7th when butcher took over. Under Fenlon we had won 3 drew 1 (against celtic) and lost 2 of our last 6 games. I'm not trying to make a defence for Fenlon but he was able to get this teeam to win games, something Butcher couldn't.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 11:28 AM
We were 5th in the league when fenlon left, we had dropped to 7th when butcher took over. Under Fenlon we had won 3 drew 1 (against celtic) and lost 2 of our last 6 games. I'm not trying to make a defence for Fenlon but he was able to get this teeam to win games, something Butcher couldn't.

Fenlons strike force consisted of Collins and Vine. You really think that would've had us winning more games than we lost? He had Lewis at right back and a fit Paul Hanlon in the middle.

We didn't look like scoring at all. Butcher went on a 9 game run of results himself and then it dried up. Pat would've had the same, that's why he resigned.

We were 5th when pat left but it was very, very early in the season.

Keith_M
03-06-2014, 11:29 AM
We were 5th in the league when fenlon left, we had dropped to 7th when butcher took over. Under Fenlon we had won 3 drew 1 (against celtic) and lost 2 of our last 6 games. I'm not trying to make a defence for Fenlon but he was able to get this teeam to win games, something Butcher couldn't.


I've given this a bit of thought and, while I agree with your facts, I actually don't think that's necessarily a big indicator of where we would have finished the season.

The reason being, I've watched so many teams have decent starts to the season then fall away dramatically, e.g. Jim Duffy's team were top of the league at a similar stage to when Hibs were 5th under Fenlon. I'm not saying that we would have been relegated, it's just that it's not that big an indicator as it seems.

My own opininion is that I think we would have scraped by under Fenlon, most likely avoiding relegation, and he would have been sacked come the end of the season for what was yet another dissapointing lower half finish. Preferable to what did happen but we would hardly have been shouting from the rooftops about it.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 11:37 AM
I've given this a bit of thought and, while I agree with your facts, I actually don't think that's necessarily a big indicator of where we would have finished the season.

The reason being, I've watched so many teams have decent starts to the season then fall away dramatically, e.g. Jim Duffy's team were top of the league at a similar stage to when Hibs were 5th under Fenlon. I'm not saying that we would have been relegated, it's just that it's not that big an indicator as it seems.

My own opininion is that I think we would have scraped by under Fenlon, most likely avoiding relegation, and he would have been sacked come the end of the season for what was yet another dissapointing lower half finish. Preferable to what did happen but we would hardly have been shouting from the rooftops about it.

Agreed. Nobody knows where Fenlon would've taken us but I do know this.

The players confidence was already shot.
Jimmy Nichol said the players were scared of playing at Easter Road
Our team was still massively unbalanced.
Injuries would still have happened (to the likes of Hanlon, who we are significantly weaker without and struggle to replace).
We couldn't score in a barrel of jambos.

bingo70
03-06-2014, 11:41 AM
;4045897']Agreed. Nobody knows where Fenlon would've taken us but I do know this.

The players confidence was already shot.
Jimmy Nichol said the players were scared of playing at Easter Road
Our team was still massively unbalanced.
Injuries would still have happened (to the likes of Hanlon, who we are significantly weaker without and struggle to replace).
We couldn't score in a barrel of jambos.

He would have brought in better than boateng and that other useless haynes. He wouldn't have frozen out Thomson and would have given mcpake a game when we were needing defensive cover.

We still wouldn't have been good, that's why he had to leave us but there's absolutely no danger we would have gone down Sith him in charge

Kato
03-06-2014, 11:50 AM
;4045897']Agreed. Nobody knows where Fenlon would've taken us but I do know this.

The players confidence was already shot.
Jimmy Nichol said the players were scared of playing at Easter Road
Our team was still massively unbalanced.
Injuries would still have happened (to the likes of Hanlon, who we are significantly weaker without and struggle to replace).
We couldn't score in a barrel of jambos.

No leader on the park was the problem for Fenlon and Butcher.

That quality doesn't come cheap.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 11:56 AM
I've given this a bit of thought and, while I agree with your facts, I actually don't think that's necessarily a big indicator of where we would have finished the season.

The reason being, I've watched so many teams have decent starts to the season then fall away dramatically, e.g. Jim Duffy's team were top of the league at a similar stage to when Hibs were 5th under Fenlon. I'm not saying that we would have been relegated, it's just that it's not that big an indicator as it seems.

My own opininion is that I think we would have scraped by under Fenlon, most likely avoiding relegation, and he would have been sacked come the end of the season for what was yet another dissapointing lower half finish. Preferable to what did happen but we would hardly have been shouting from the rooftops about it.

I agree that we don't know were we would have finished under Fenlon, but we can look to the previous 2 seasons as a pointer to how we might have done. I thought we were heading for another disappointing mid to lower half position with Fenlon being sacked at the end of the season, I wish we had gone down that route now.
Butcher has made so many mistakes since he arived, he told Thomson and Tawio that they weren't in his plans, then through desperation he was forced to play them, his 3 singings in January were a waste of time, he stuck to his own system rather than playing to the strengths of the players he had at his disposal, he managed to make a poor team worse, he managed 2 wins this year and he got us relegated. He has to go imo.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 12:03 PM
No leader on the park was the problem for Fenlon and Butcher.

That quality doesn't come cheap.

Agreed. Nobody there to take the game by baws.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 12:04 PM
I agree that we don't know were we would have finished under Fenlon, but we can look to the previous 2 seasons as a pointer to how we might have done. I thought we were heading for another disappointing mid to lower half position with Fenlon being sacked at the end of the season, I wish we had gone down that route now.
Butcher has made so many mistakes since he arived, he told Thomson and Tawio that they weren't in his plans, then through desperation he was forced to play them, his 3 singings in January were a waste of time, he stuck to his own system rather than playing to the strengths of the players he had at his disposal, he managed to make a poor team worse, he managed 2 wins this year and he got us relegated. He has to go imo.

Don't think you can use the previous 2 seasons at all. Both of those were with Leigh up front. We never had anybody like that this season. From the start.

Also Fenlon wouldn't have signed Haynes or boateng?

He signed pretty much the entire team that took us down. Good yin.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 12:07 PM
;4045954']Don't think you can use the previous 2 seasons at all. Both of those were with Leigh up front. We never had anybody like that this season. From the start.

But we didn't have him for the first part of last season either, we were still able to win matches.

Sammy7nil
03-06-2014, 12:09 PM
I agree that we don't know were we would have finished under Fenlon, but we can look to the previous 2 seasons as a pointer to how we might have done. I thought we were heading for another disappointing mid to lower half position with Fenlon being sacked at the end of the season, I wish we had gone down that route now.
Butcher has made so many mistakes since he arived, he told Thomson and Tawio that they weren't in his plans, then through desperation he was forced to play them, his 3 singings in January were a waste of time, he stuck to his own system rather than playing to the strengths of the players he had at his disposal, he managed to make a poor team worse, he managed 2 wins this year and he got us relegated. He has to go imo.

Nail on the head.

He made a poor team worse that was a real challange for an experienced manager to achieve but our Tell rose to that task in fact he actually excelled at it.

For that reason he has to go if he stays he will divide the support this is something we cannot afford to happen.
I see six months gardening leave until for Tell until he finds a new job then we could agree 3 month pay off. Okay it will cost but there is no need to pay his contract in full.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 12:10 PM
;4045954']Don't think you can use the previous 2 seasons at all. Both of those were with Leigh up front. We never had anybody like that this season. From the start.

Also Fenlon wouldn't have signed Haynes or boateng?

He signed pretty much the entire team that took us down. Good yin.

The point I'm trying to make is that we weren't going down until Butcher came in.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 12:12 PM
Nail on the head.

He made a poor team worse that was a real challange for an experienced manager to achieve but our Tell rose to that task in fact he actually excelled at it.

For that reason he has to go if he stays he will divide the support this is something we cannot afford to happen.
I see six months gardening leave until for Tell until he finds a new job then we could agree 3 month pay off. Okay it will cost but there is no need to pay his contract in full.

I was just on the club website and I noticed all the Terry Butchers green and white army stuff has been taken away, hopefully that's a sign he's going.

borstalboy
03-06-2014, 12:16 PM
I don't understand your logic. RP will know TB a lot better than LD does. Maybe it's her that wants time to decide?

Well woldn't LD, RP & TB all have had a meeting that day? To discuss the future under LD (can't really see why else she would've been there considering she wasn't actually contracted to us at that time). So on that basis, you'd presume there was no point in either RP & LD being there if they weren't there to discuss his future along with other things.

If she needed or needs a couple of weeks to decide on TB, then why let TB tell the players they are no longer required? All just seems a bit disjointed if it turns out that TB is fired, don't you think?

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 12:19 PM
But we didn't have him for the first part of last season either, we were still able to win matches.

From what I remember we were pretty awful and couldn't score. But if you want to believe Fenlon would've had us taking on the world with that squad then I'll leave you in lala land. This debate will just go around In circles.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 12:19 PM
The point I'm trying to make is that we weren't going down until Butcher came in.

Even hearts weren't down when butcher came in.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 12:23 PM
;4045978']From what I remember we were pretty awful and couldn't score. But if you want to believe Fenlon would've had us taking on the world with that squad then I'll leave you in lala land. This debate will just go around In circles.

It will certainly go round in circles if you make things up like you've just done. I said we were terrible under Fenlon, I certainly didn't say we be taking on the world, all I said was that I didn't think we would have been relegated.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 12:28 PM
It will certainly go round in circles if you make things up like you've just done. I said we were terrible under Fenlon, I certainly didn't say we be taking on the world, all I said was that I didn't think we would have been relegated.

I'm struggling to see Fenlon pick up many wins when his sides couldn't score and we were conceding goals left right and centre without Hanlon at the back. We'd be in exactly the same position but it's all conjecture. Fenlon couldn't and shouldn't have stayed, he built that rubbish side and he deserved to go.

Butcher and his team were brought in on the basis of what they done well at Inverness. Those qualities, I believe, will see us promoted this season.

Hibiza
03-06-2014, 12:33 PM
hope so.

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 12:34 PM
;4045993']I'm struggling to see Fenlon pick up many wins when his sides couldn't score and we were conceding goals left right and centre without Hanlon at the back. We'd be in exactly the same position but it's all conjecture. Fenlon couldn't and shouldn't have stayed, he built that rubbish side and he deserved to go.

Butcher and his team were brought in on the basis of what they done well at Inverness. Those qualities, I believe, will see us promoted this season.

You're right it is all conjecture, but we didn't need to pick up that many wins to have been safe this season and imo under Fenlon we would have done enough, then he would have been sacked.
I sincerely hope your right about Butcher bringing us straight back up.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 01:25 PM
;4045773']What's the truth then?

I expect a factual answer with a good source referenced to back it up.

Firstly 'the truth' is not contained within one sentence or a paragraph. Simplistic, knee jerk responses will get you nowhere. Since you typed that directed at me you have continued with this train of what might loosely be termed thought on this thread. You are clearly impressed by your own debating skills. I fail to see why.

You expect? Ah such pomposity for one so young. Facts? OK.

Pat Fenlon wasn't a great manager. That we can agree on. The squad wasn't the strongest. They could play well at times (First 20 minutes against Hearts in the cup tie earlier this season) but were woefully inconsistent. Butcher takes over. After a brief period of reasonable results the team goes into meltdown. Thousands of us on a weekly basis watch aimless, inflexible tactics. Players who were competent earlier in the season look clueless, scared (See McGivern, Craig, others). A man who interviews well talking about hard work, things will change, confident about not going down. Every week gets the same. Players frightened to retain possession. Long hopeful balls followed by long hopeless balls. There are stories being circulated about his bad people management of players, some may be idle gossip, others true. We shouldn't repeat them here but they are indicative of a general malaise that so many actually circulate.

Fenlon quit because he said he couldn't take the club any further. In subsequent interviews he has parlayed variations on this general theme. To reduce that to the idea that they weren't listening to him as you have done and then claim this as objective fact is nonsense.

I am heartily sick of the 'It's not his players' line. Any reasonable manager should be able to organise a set of players he inherits to some level of organisation. I see no evidence of that. What kind of prima donna can only work with those he has cherry picked??

And finally my contention is that we would not have been relegated under Fenlon. Never rated the man frankly but the last few months are virtually unprecedented in British football for such a collapse in form and confidence.

Give him time? Why? In god's name why? I drove to Dingwall straight from work. Work suited and booted. Had to leave something at reception there and picked it up again after the game. The young guy at the desk was very friendly but he said that he could not believe how bad we were.

Would be genuinely interested in your response.

Keith_M
03-06-2014, 01:52 PM
.... I thought we were heading for another disappointing mid to lower half position with Fenlon being sacked at the end of the season, I wish we had gone down that route now.....


That's the great part about hindsight.

It appears now like the choice was between keeping a manager who would have us finish in mid to lower table mediocrity and one who would have us relegated. If that choice was presented at the time, it's obvious what we would have said, but it wasn't.

It was between Fenlon and a guy who had ICT punching above their weight and doing much better than Hibs. Nobody knew it was going to turn out the way it did, that's why Butcher was almost universally welcomed.

Dashing Bob S
03-06-2014, 01:53 PM
Firstly 'the truth' is not contained within one sentence or a paragraph. Simplistic, knee jerk responses will get you nowhere. Since you typed that directed at me you have continued with this train of what might loosely be termed thought on this thread. You are clearly impressed by your own debating skills. I fail to see why.

You expect? Ah such pomposity for one so young. Facts? OK.

Pat Fenlon wasn't a great manager. That we can agree on. The squad wasn't the strongest. They could play well at times (First 20 minutes against Hearts in the cup tie earlier this season) but were woefully inconsistent. Butcher takes over. After a brief period of reasonable results the team goes into meltdown. Thousands of us on a weekly basis watch aimless, inflexible tactics. Players who were competent earlier in the season look clueless, scared (See McGivern, Craig, others). A man who interviews well talking about hard work, things will change, confident about not going down. Every week gets the same. Players frightened to retain possession. Long hopeful balls followed by long hopeless balls. There are stories being circulated about his bad people management of players, some may be idle gossip, others true. We shouldn't repeat them here but they are indicative of a general malaise that so many actually circulate.

Fenlon quit because he said he couldn't take the club any further. In subsequent interviews he has parlayed variations on this general theme. To reduce that to the idea that they weren't listening to him as you have done and then claim this as objective fact is nonsense.

I am heartily sick of the 'It's not his players' line. Any reasonable manager should be able to organise a set of players he inherits to some level of organisation. I see no evidence of that. What kind of prima donna can only work with those he has cherry picked??

And finally my contention is that we would not have been relegated under Fenlon. Never rated the man frankly but the last few months are virtually unprecedented in British football for such a collapse in form and confidence.

Give him time? Why? In god's name why? I drove to Dingwall straight from work. Work suited and booted. Had to leave something at reception there and picked it up again after the game. The young guy at the desk was very friendly but he said that he could not believe how bad we were.

Would be genuinely interested in your response.

Nutshell. That Butcher has made Fenlon look good is no mean feat. His tenure has been a disaster, taking a mediocre outfit that was going nowhere, to the position of worst senior football team in Britain and relegation. And we're still heading south.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 01:55 PM
Firstly 'the truth' is not contained within one sentence or a paragraph. Simplistic, knee jerk responses will get you nowhere. Since you typed that directed at me you have continued with this train of what might loosely be termed thought on this thread. You are clearly impressed by your own debating skills. I fail to see why.

You expect? Ah such pomposity for one so young. Facts? OK.

Pat Fenlon wasn't a great manager. That we can agree on. The squad wasn't the strongest. They could play well at times (First 20 minutes against Hearts in the cup tie earlier this season) but were woefully inconsistent. Butcher takes over. After a brief period of reasonable results the team goes into meltdown. Thousands of us on a weekly basis watch aimless, inflexible tactics. Players who were competent earlier in the season look clueless, scared (See McGivern, Craig, others). A man who interviews well talking about hard work, things will change, confident about not going down. Every week gets the same. Players frightened to retain possession. Long hopeful balls followed by long hopeless balls. There are stories being circulated about his bad people management of players, some may be idle gossip, others true. We shouldn't repeat them here but they are indicative of a general malaise that so many actually circulate.

Fenlon quit because he said he couldn't take the club any further. In subsequent interviews he has parlayed variations on this general theme. To reduce that to the idea that they weren't listening to him as you have done and then claim this as objective fact is nonsense.

I am heartily sick of the 'It's not his players' line. Any reasonable manager should be able to organise a set of players he inherits to some level of organisation. I see no evidence of that. What kind of prima donna can only work with those he has cherry picked??

And finally my contention is that we would not have been relegated under Fenlon. Never rated the man frankly but the last few months are virtually unprecedented in British football for such a collapse in form and confidence.

Give him time? Why? In god's name why? I drove to Dingwall straight from work. Work suited and booted. Had to leave something at reception there and picked it up again after the game. The young guy at the desk was very friendly but he said that he could not believe how bad we were.

Would be genuinely interested in your response.

I fail to see how any of this proves that the players don't rule the roost?

That hearts game has been our story all season, flying first 20 mins but then pish.

Fenlon might've picked up a few wins here and there but would he have gone on the 8/9 game run terry did? I couldn't see it coming. Therefor we'd probably sitting on the same points total, maybe one or two wins more maybe less but for a man who had time to build a squad that isn't good enough.

I seen players frightened to retain possession since that Malmo game. It's been a problem all season with and without Terry.

I was up at dingwall myself and knew that day we were down. The players put on a good act of looking devastated at the end but in reality hardly any of those players gave a ****.

I've already stated my reasons for wanting terry to stay.

2 managers failed to get this squad playing any sort of effective football. We've seen Terry's teams on top form and Fenlon's sides playing well. None of it was hoofball. That tells me it's more the players than the manager.

Finally, my "pompous" response was a reply to your similarly pompous comment. If you can dish it then you can receive it.

Groathillgrump
03-06-2014, 01:57 PM
I was just on the club website and I noticed all the Terry Butchers green and white army stuff has been taken away, hopefully that's a sign he's going.

Not all of it has gone.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TBGAWA/0,,10290,00.html

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 02:03 PM
I've previously stated that Terry didn't cover himself in glory in our relegation fight and if leeann feels it's time for him to go then I'll back her judgement. But I think he should stay and if she decides the same people need to get behind him.

But slating the style of play in comparison with pat's is silly. The only difference is the players would pass it sideways before launching it forward under him.

*****bag players got us relegated more than Terry did. And Pat signed them.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 02:23 PM
In response


;4046115']I fail to see how any of this proves that the players don't rule the roost?
I was answering your specific point about players not listening to Fenlon. There is no one explanation for why he went. The not listening comment was one he made months after the event

That hearts game has been our story all season, flying first 20 mins but then pish.

A very good point. Couldn't agree more

Fenlon might've picked up a few wins here and there but would he have gone on the 8/9 game run terry did? I couldn't see it coming. Therefor we'd probably sitting on the same points total, maybe one or two wins more maybe less but for a man who had time to build a squad that isn't good enough.

One win more would have been enough. I still can't agree we would have gone down. He would have finished his contract and we'd have a clean slate

I seen players frightened to retain possession since that Malmo game. It's been a problem all season with and without Terry.

But what has he done to address it? And why has it gotten even worse??

I was up at dingwall myself and knew that day we were down. The players put on a good act of looking devastated at the end but in reality hardly any of those players gave a ****.

I think more than them give an 'ahem' than you think. I think they were not being motivated correctly. I know of at least one player who was and still is gutted by what happened and who claims that the players were baffled by the tactics and team changes each week

I've already stated my reasons for wanting terry to stay.

I think he will stay. And if we come up first time playing great football under him I have no problems posting here in public that you were right. I cannot see it though

2 managers failed to get this squad playing any sort of effective football. We've seen Terry's teams on top form and Fenlon's sides playing well. None of it was hoofball. That tells me it's more the players than the manager.

My view however is that Fenlon's team didn't improve. Butcher's got painfully worse over the months

Finally, my "pompous" response was a reply to your similarly pompous comment. If you can dish it then you can receive it.

Fair comment. Just be grateful I didn't use my A game on you on that :na na:

Lester B
03-06-2014, 02:25 PM
Nutshell. That Butcher has made Fenlon look good is no mean feat. His tenure has been a disaster, taking a mediocre outfit that was going nowhere, to the position of worst senior football team in Britain and relegation. And we're still heading south.

Thank you sir. I admire your work too!

majorhibs
03-06-2014, 04:01 PM
;4046115']I fail to see how any of this proves that the players don't rule the roost?

That hearts game has been our story all season, flying first 20 mins but then pish.

Fenlon might've picked up a few wins here and there but would he have gone on the 8/9 game run terry did? I couldn't see it coming. Therefor we'd probably sitting on the same points total, maybe one or two wins more maybe less but for a man who had time to build a squad that isn't good enough.

I seen players frightened to retain possession since that Malmo game. It's been a problem all season with and without Terry.

I was up at dingwall myself and knew that day we were down. The players put on a good act of looking devastated at the end but in reality hardly any of those players gave a ****.

I've already stated my reasons for wanting terry to stay.

2 managers failed to get this squad playing any sort of effective football. We've seen Terry's teams on top form and Fenlon's sides playing well. None of it was hoofball. That tells me it's more the players than the manager.

Finally, my "pompous" response was a reply to your similarly pompous comment. If you can dish it then you can receive it.

Either you just really enjoy disagreeing with loads of folk, or your just delusional. Either way, I'm just glad I only have to read your nonsense & not listen to it. Seriously though, Fenlon was bad, the players were bad, but "Terry" is the boy? Just scunners me how folk go on about what he "acheived" at Inverness. Come on, just look at his managerial record? But how can anyone defend what he has done to Hibernian FC? How can anyone excuse how bad a display of management that was? I know Petrie doesnt want to admit to his mistakes, but people defending Butcher? Why? Every neutral I come across shakes their head & commiserates, & then they laugh & agree when I talk about Hibs "management team". They cant believe whats happened & how Hibs are in this state, they cant grasp same as me how Butcher still has a job after that disaster, but where in the world is this belief that this failure at managing various football teams is suddenly going to come good coming from? Just scunners me. The worst manager I have witnessed at E.R. by a country mile. Get rid of this clown first & foremost before more excuses & more failure is inflicted on Hibs.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 04:07 PM
I'm not defending Butcher. I'm telling it how it is. He's not managed the situation well at all but I feel he's the man best equipped to recruit us players and put together a squad capable of pushing for promotion.

It's my opinion. I've spoken to others who agree too.

We get rid of Petrie and as far as I'm concerned everyone (playing staff apart) has a clean slate.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 04:14 PM
I also wonder when people are going to realise that sacking managers isn't always the correct answer to the problem.

We keep doing the same thing and ending up in the same, dull place.

greenpaper55
03-06-2014, 04:19 PM
;4046282']I also wonder when people are going to realise that sacking managers isn't always the correct answer to the problem.

We keep doing the same thing and ending up in the same, dull place.

You mean keeping then like we did with CC !. Another managerial masterstroke from the man who had never been to a football match until he became a board member at ER.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 04:24 PM
You mean keeping then like we did with CC !. Another managerial masterstroke from the man who had never been to a football match until he became a board member at ER.

Don't get me started on the clown. He should never have been appointed in the first place.

But no, I don't mean keeping them like calderwood. I mean keeping them Butcher. Calderwood had his chance. Terry hasn't.

sadtom
03-06-2014, 04:25 PM
;4046282']I also wonder when people are going to realise that sacking managers isn't always the correct answer to the problem.

We keep doing the same thing and ending up in the same, dull place.

Well i wonder when people will realise sticking with what we have just because we are sick of changing again is not the right thing to do. It takes us further away from where we want to be and means it will take longer to get there.
I'm all for giving people a chance but they have to show some (jesus, ANY!) signs of abilty.
CC got longer than he should have because of our fear to start again. Indeed we could have recieved money for him, instead we paid to get rid of him (yet another RP f*** up!).
Likewise with PF. Should have gone after THAT game if not the, then after Malmo.
Just wishing the next numpty will somehow come good aint enough.

Cameron1875
03-06-2014, 04:26 PM
Liam Craig, Scott Robertson, Harris, Heff are all not hopeless and would walk into any other bottom 6 SPL team.

Why they have been so woeful at Hibs is something that has many different answers for folk. Personally for me its the way they are being coached by the management.

Others will blame confidence, injuries, lack of balls etc.

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 04:27 PM
Well i wonder when people will realise sticking with what we have just because we are sick of changing again is not the right thing to do. It takes us further away from where we want to be and means it will take longer to get there.
I'm all for giving people a chance but they have to show some (jesus, ANY!) signs of abilty.
CC got longer than he should have because of our fear to start again. Indeed we could have recieved money for him, instead we paid to get rid of him (yet another RP f*** up!).
Likewise with PF. Should have gone after THAT game if not the, then after Malmo.
Just wishing the next numpty will somehow come good aint enough.

I'm not hoping he'll come good I know he will without Petrie hanging around.

Lago
03-06-2014, 04:29 PM
It's amazing how so many on .net are desperately trying to re write history. Prior to Pat leaving an over whelming number of 'fans' wanted him gone, as his team played eye bleeding awful football. Butcher in the main was welcomed with Petrie being told to make sure he got the complete ICT management team to ER.
Personaly I'm not sure if Butcher will still be here at seasons start, in fact I'm not sure he and his team want to be at ER

The_Horde
03-06-2014, 04:30 PM
Liam Craig, Scott Robertson, Harris, Heff are all not hopeless and would walk into any other bottom 6 SPL team.

Why they have been so woeful at Hibs is something that has many different answers for folk. Personally for me its the way they are being coached by the management.

Others will blame confidence, injuries, lack of balls etc.

So they were coached poorly by 2 managers?

3 players who were injured for lots of this season and our top scorer and ultimate shirker of the ball Liam Craig. Wow.

The players are blame free in your eyes?

Kato
03-06-2014, 04:32 PM
Liam Craig, Scott Robertson, Harris, Heff are all not hopeless and would walk into any other bottom 6 SPL team.

Why they have been so woeful at Hibs is something that has many different answers for folk. Personally for me its the way they are being coached by the management.

Others will blame confidence, injuries, lack of balls etc.

They are being coached to hide and mis-hit passes?

lord bunberry
03-06-2014, 04:54 PM
That's the great part about hindsight.

It appears now like the choice was between keeping a manager who would have us finish in mid to lower table mediocrity and one who would have us relegated. If that choice was presented at the time, it's obvious what we would have said, but it wasn't.

It was between Fenlon and a guy who had ICT punching above their weight and doing much better than Hibs. Nobody knew it was going to turn out the way it did, that's why Butcher was almost universally welcomed.
You're right and I'm as guilty as everyone else who wanted rid of Fenlon, I defended him up until the cup game with them, but after that defeat I lost all confidence in him.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 05:06 PM
It's amazing how so many on .net are desperately trying to re write history. Prior to Pat leaving an over whelming number of 'fans' wanted him gone, as his team played eye bleeding awful football. Butcher in the main was welcomed with Petrie being told to make sure he got the complete ICT management team to ER.
Personaly I'm not sure if Butcher will still be here at seasons start, in fact I'm not sure he and his team want to be at ER

Who is rewriting history? Name names. I'm not seeing it here

Lester B
03-06-2014, 05:18 PM
;4046282']I also wonder when people are going to realise that sacking managers isn't always the correct answer to the problem.

We keep doing the same thing and ending up in the same, dull place.

Who said it was always the correct answer. I could name you several Hibs managers whom I wish had stayed. It was right for Calderwood. It was right for Duffy. It's right for Butcher.

The same dull place?? What planet are you currently on? We have been relegated to the strongest second tier ever. I'd give my left one to be having a dull close season just now.

Simplistic stuff from you and arguing for the sake of it.

Speedway
03-06-2014, 05:22 PM
It's only hearsay but it HASN'T come from the Internet, that Malpas is for the chop on Friday not Butcher.

As I say though 100% rumour from someone at EM.

keep the faith
03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
It's amazing how so many on .net are desperately trying to re write history. Prior to Pat leaving an over whelming number of 'fans' wanted him gone, as his team played eye bleeding awful football. Butcher in the main was welcomed with Petrie being told to make sure he got the complete ICT management team to ER.
Personaly I'm not sure if Butcher will still be here at seasons start, in fact I'm not sure he and his team want to be at ER

Spot on.

Del Boy
03-06-2014, 05:29 PM
If Malpas is sacked then maybe (hopefully) Butcher will resign.

smurf
03-06-2014, 05:32 PM
It's only hearsay but it HASN'T come from the Internet, that Malpas is for the chop on Friday not Butcher.

As I say though 100% rumour from someone at EM.

If that was true it would be a deliberate ploy to force the hand of TB....

jeffers
03-06-2014, 05:32 PM
It's only hearsay but it HASN'T come from the Internet, that Malpas is for the chop on Friday not Butcher.

As I say though 100% rumour from someone at EM.

Considering they came as a team that would leave TB in a difficult position. Is someone being cunning in getting rid of MM in the hope that it forces TB to resign and thus saving money in compensation. Fingers crossed.......

Dr Jimmy
03-06-2014, 05:45 PM
Considering they came as a team that would leave TB in a difficult position. Is someone being cunning in getting rid of MM in the hope that it forces TB to resign and thus saving money in compensation. Fingers crossed.......

It could be cunning stunt from Petrie who as we know is a stunning ....!!

Lester B
03-06-2014, 05:52 PM
Spot on.

Really? How?

E10 Rifle
03-06-2014, 05:53 PM
Who said it was always the correct answer. I could name you several Hibs managers whom I wish had stayed. It was right for Calderwood. It was right for Duffy. It's right for Butcher.

The same dull place?? What planet are you currently on? We have been relegated to the strongest second tier ever. I'd give my left one to be having a dull close season just now.

Simplistic stuff from you and arguing for the sake of it.

I'm with you. I wouldn't let the idiot make one more decision on our future. :taxi

superbam
03-06-2014, 06:01 PM
I cannot believe anyone can still defend Butcher. He has presided over what is potentially the most catastrophic tenure in our history. He has taken over a grim team that was in no danger whatsoever of relegation, and made them unbelievably worse. He has relegated us from the weakest ever top tier to the strongest ever second tier. Surely that is without question grounds for dismissal? His record as a manager before he came to us is also questionable. We have seen the type of football he wants to play and it is even more prehistoric than Fenlon's. He has made bizarre tactical decisions and selections which have clearly baffled the players, has been incapable of motivating the players despite all his bluster about psychological conditioning etc, and appears incredibly naive in terms of man management.

The main reason I want him out however is that if he starts next season as manager, we are always going to be minutes away from poison in the stands unless we start skelping teams immediately, including our rivals. We need to start next season united and positive and we are not going to do that with Butcher & Malpas in the dugout.

Lester B
03-06-2014, 06:04 PM
I cannot believe anyone can still defend Butcher. He has presided over what is potentially the most catastrophic tenure in our history. He has taken over a grim team that was in no danger whatsoever of relegation, and made them unbelievably worse. He has relegated us from the weakest ever top tier to the strongest ever second tier. Surely that is without question grounds for dismissal? His record as a manager before he came to us is also questionable. We have seen the type of football he wants to play and it is even more prehistoric than Fenlon's. He has made bizarre tactical decisions and selections which have clearly baffled the players, has been incapable of motivating the players despite all his bluster about psychological conditioning etc, and appears incredibly naive in terms of man management.

The main reason I want him out however is that if he starts next season as manager, we are always going to be minutes away from poison in the stands unless we start skelping teams immediately, including our rivals. We need to start next season united and positive and we are not going to do that with Butcher & Malpas in the dugout.


:top marks

emerald green
03-06-2014, 06:13 PM
Totally agree:agree:

He had chance after chance to ensure that we survived in the top tier and failed every time; his style of football is horrendous; he fails to change tactics when they are obviously not working; he failed to bring any meaningful players in during the January window; Malpas spends more time swearing at fans than directing players on the pitch and the atmosphere in the camp was rotten - no wonder when he told everyone that they were crap and would be replaced in the summer.

If he was a man of integrity he would have resigned.

So why do we want to give him another chance?

:top marks

coco22
03-06-2014, 06:19 PM
I cannot believe anyone can still defend Butcher. He has presided over what is potentially the most catastrophic tenure in our history. He has taken over a grim team that was in no danger whatsoever of relegation, and made them unbelievably worse. He has relegated us from the weakest ever top tier to the strongest ever second tier. Surely that is without question grounds for dismissal? His record as a manager before he came to us is also questionable. We have seen the type of football he wants to play and it is even more prehistoric than Fenlon's. He has made bizarre tactical decisions and selections which have clearly baffled the players, has been incapable of motivating the players despite all his bluster about psychological conditioning etc, and appears incredibly naive in terms of man management.

The main reason I want him out however is that if he starts next season as manager, we are always going to be minutes away from poison in the stands unless we start skelping teams immediately, including our rivals. We need to start next season united and positive and we are not going to do that with Butcher & Malpas in the dugout.

I agree with all of this. I understand why people would give him time (to startbring in his own players etc) but, as you have stated, the supportare divided and many would be waiting to start the vitriol at the drop of a hat when things don't go our way (and there's every chance they won't)

sadtom
03-06-2014, 06:25 PM
;4046314']I'm not hoping he'll come good I know he will without Petrie hanging around.

Lottery nunbers please. ;-)
Seriously i can only put your comment down to one of two things. Blind faith. Or just blindness. All the evidence would suggest he is not up to the job.

Gustavo Fring
03-06-2014, 06:30 PM
cant see him gettin fired , doubtful we could afford to

i dont think butcher is at the root of our problems . he's made some howlers and played his part but i think he could assemble a decent team for next season as long as petries not there tying his hands behind his back like he did with rooney

The Harp
03-06-2014, 06:37 PM
It's amazing how so many on .net are desperately trying to re write history. Prior to Pat leaving an over whelming number of 'fans' wanted him gone, as his team played eye bleeding awful football. Butcher in the main was welcomed with Petrie being told to make sure he got the complete ICT management team to ER.
Personaly I'm not sure if Butcher will still be here at seasons start, in fact I'm not sure he and his team want to be at ER

Wow! If TB and his team can't decide whether they want to be at the Club then they should've done the honourable thing and resigned. Better management teams than them have done this elsewhere in the past. They most certainly won't be missed in my opinion.

Lago
03-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Who is rewriting history? Name names. I'm not seeing it here

Perhaps quick look back at some of the comments following our lucky win against Partick and being humped by ICT the previous game, then managed by, yes TB.
Various points made along the lines of boring football, poor defence, long balls to Collins, Fenlon doesn't know how to set up a team etc etc etc.
Posts were made 8th 9th Oct.

Eternal Hibbie
03-06-2014, 07:42 PM
I cannot believe anyone can still defend Butcher. He has presided over what is potentially the most catastrophic tenure in our history. He has taken over a grim team that was in no danger whatsoever of relegation, and made them unbelievably worse. He has relegated us from the weakest ever top tier to the strongest ever second tier. Surely that is without question grounds for dismissal? His record as a manager before he came to us is also questionable. We have seen the type of football he wants to play and it is even more prehistoric than Fenlon's. He has made bizarre tactical decisions and selections which have clearly baffled the players, has been incapable of motivating the players despite all his bluster about psychological conditioning etc, and appears incredibly naive in terms of man management.

The main reason I want him out however is that if he starts next season as manager, we are always going to be minutes away from poison in the stands unless we start skelping teams immediately, including our rivals. We need to start next season united and positive and we are not going to do that with Butcher & Malpas in the dugout.

Top post, totally sums it up for me.