(rumour) Butcher will be sacked

[smurf]

Butcher out.

Like a previous poster said....wrong pedigree (he was a Hun)....not Hibs class...and a football philosophy from the dark ages.

New change from top to bottom required. Would go cap in hand and bring Collins back.

Supporters with such opinions of folks PAST are not Hibs pedigree IMHO.

[Jonnyboy]

The first bit you've highlighted is ridiculous but nothing wrong with the second part imo.

I just felt the two phrases contradicted each other although I maybe should have just highlighted the 'from dark ages' part :wink:

[Pete]

Butcher in.

Give him a season or two to get players in that fit in with his style and judge him after that. He's messed up with the players he inherited but the fact he wants rid of them all tells you that they don't have, to a man, the attributes that he is looking for.

If he has us playing with heart, determination and pace as we're handing out doings to all who cross us then sign me up for the "dark ages" please.

Even if he did manage that then no doubt some would just say that he got lucky at hibs the exact same way he got lucky at Inverness. :rolleyes:

The harder you work the luckier you get.

[JimBHibees]

When he joined they all became his players if he cannot manage players correctly to give him 100% then he is not good enough. He caused us to get relegated therefore should have been punted and even punted a few weeks before it happened as with him in charge it had a certain inevitability about it all in the last few weeks.

OK Agent Butcher return to base.

Why can't he do the same job as he did at ICT

[JimBHibees]

Butcher out.

Like a previous poster said....wrong pedigree (he was a Hun)....not Hibs class...and a football philosophy from the dark ages.

New change from top to bottom required. Would go cap in hand and bring Collins back.

Pathetic

[Captain Trips]

Why can't he do the same job as he did at ICT

He isnt at ICT that is why, he is however doing what he did most of the time before ICT. This ICT just keeps getting put up time and time again. Why do players at one club score goals get a move and fail. How often do managers have a good time at one club and get a move to what they think is better and it does not work.

He has to go nearly getting relegated was one thing actually doing it is quite another, He has to go I have 0% faith in him.

[ehf]

Which part of that should we take as your view as you seem to give every possible view!? :confused:

He used to think he was indececisive, but now he's not so sure!

I am though: Butcher can gtf.

[Wellbankhibby]

I have read all the comments on this post and my opinion is we should be supporting The Whole Management Team.
Facts are the Vast majority of Hibs fans were happy with the appointments.
Far too often I have sat in the Famous Five stand and listned to our supporters screaming obsenities against our own Players and Managers Putting additional pressures on all of them.
Butcher has come into the club and after a good start has without a doubt made some very strange decisions. If what we are meant to believe he told some of the Team that they were not good enough to play for Hibs and in my opinion he was 100% correct, I also agree with some of the posters on here that say the players did not want to play for him, again I agree with this. Far too long at this club we have players trying to dictate when they should play and what Manager they like and dislike. When JC was the boss some of our players went to Petrie behind his back and resignation of JC followed. The BIGGEST PROBLEM we all agree on is PETRIE has to go. I am absolutly convinced the vast majority of Fans would unite together. Petrie is a money Man and the one thing he has done well is keep the club on a very sound footing, unfortunately this was to the detriment of the playing side. As supporters we are all entitled to our own opinions but Everyone in employment needs time to be successful and given time I honestly feel Butcher will do a very good job for us. He has made some strange decisions by taking Heff off near the end in our last game to try and shore up the midfield in order that we survived in the Premier league. When we lost the very late goal Heff was off the park, he would have taken a penalty. Also felt it strange that cummings was left with the pressure of the last spot kick. We all make errors in our lives and we all hope someone will give us a second chance thats my hope for the Management team. The very least we should be doing is to give him the opportunity to bring a list of his own players and if he fails with them there is no argument. Lets not kid ourselves on the playing side we have been rapidly getting poorer every season and as Hibs fans it has been difficult to watch. On a personal note i was spoiled watching the great Turnbulls Tornadoes team and watched them play fantastic football.Although I am gutted at relegation this might be the kick up the jacksy that we as a club needed. Its probably about time we had a real clearout of the dead wood. Im not silly enough to think we can all unite together but in my opinion that is what is required. If Petrie leaves and Butcher is given time to bring his own players in I am confident we will see a big change in our fortunes. :tbgwa:

[Westie1875]

Get rid

[Scorrie]

I want him gone. Dreadful hoofball. Awful tactics. Clueless substitutions. Didn't really know how to set a team up. Could go on but the last 5 months were one long car crash unfolding and I never got the feeling he knew how to change things. Even when we got the result away at Accies, he couldn't build on a two goal lead at home. I don't see anything that would convince me that he could get us out of the Championship (promoted that is!)

[SanFranHibs]

I welcomed his appointment at the time but given what has been on offer lately, I've changed my mind.

However, I endorse the view that players are to blame for our demise but Mr Petrie and Butcher also share in this.

In my view, it is time for a clean sweep, boardroom, management and most of the players. We need to get Hibernian minded people back on board and a mindset that knows what it means to play for our club. I know some on the board are Hibernian minded but they are still part of the current problem existing at ER and EM. Hopefully LD will tear through the place and set us up properly again but RP, TB and their teams need to go!

Not sure how we can achieve that except bring back players who have already played for us.

And some of our better players in recent years had no connection with Hibs whatsoever and probably very little knowledge of Hibs generally (other than we played in the SPL), David Murphy, Sproule, Latapy, Sauzee, Boozy etc.

And then you follow it up by saying the existing Hibernian minded people at the club are part of the problem so they should go anyhow.

Forget the Hibernian minded people. DOn;t think we can limit it to Hibernian minded people.....next we wil be asking 'What school did you go to?' :wink:

Just get in a better quality of player and managerial staff and we shall surely improve. Easier said than done of course but other teams are more able to do this.

:flag:

[Leith Mo]

Given his previous should never have been appointed (only positive his "success" with ICT having, like almost all his other clubs, gone through relegation). Get him out. If he had integrity he'd have gone of his own volition but clearly lacks the leadership ability to do so. Hisccontinuing presence gives a clear message that Hibs tolerate failure and are soft. Sorry but no. Out now for me

[Waxy]

It's nearly freaky friday.

[Waxy]

Well it's friday, and he's still here.

[The Green Goblin]

I think it's pretty simple: we can't afford to sack him. There might have been an outside chance of taking the financial hit if we had stayed up, but now that we are down, I really doubt it's an option financially.

[Pete]

He isnt at ICT that is why, he is however doing what he did most of the time before ICT. This ICT just keeps getting put up time and time again. Why do players at one club score goals get a move and fail. How often do managers have a good time at one club and get a move to what they think is better and it does not work.

He has to go nearly getting relegated was one thing actually doing it is quite another, He has to go I have 0% faith in him.

What sort of reason is "because he isn't at ICT"? It keeps getting brought up because it worked due to the fact it was given time to work.

I notice people keep bringing up his past record and his "failures" but he is now part of a team that was successful including Maurice Malpas and Steve Marsella.

Why don't we discuss that specific management team because that's what's in charge now? Butcher in the past with someone else or on his own is now irrelevant as the team we have has proven that it can work. If you try to use the fact that they were relegated to strengthen your argument you are actually weakening it and demonstrating the strength of the management team. To come from such lows and continually build something special and take it on an upward curve is remarkable given the constraints. The curve was getting steeper until we poached them so in theory, if we leave them to get on with it then the sky is the limit.

If you make allowances for him not being the best man manager when it comes to players who are not chosen by him (he's not perfect, otherwise he wouldn't be here), all you have left is "I dinnae like the fitba".

Ask yourself if the Inverness fans were complaining about the ball not being on the deck all the time as they strolled to victories over teams like ourselves. At the start of last season they were comfortably second and we've been nowhere near anything like that for eight years when it comes to performances. Those who disagreed with ICT and the way they played might have been losers but at least they were gallant losers who refused to appreciate "prehistoric football". Maybe it makes constant bottom six football easier to deal with.

[Cameron1875]

I think it's pretty simple: we can't afford to sack him. There might have been an outside chance of taking the financial hit if we had stayed up, but now that we are down, I really doubt it's an option financially.

I actually think we'll make more money this season. Theres a 500k prize money hit i think with relegation but the gate reciepts will be through the roof.

The Rangers 3500
Hearts 3500
Raith 1200-2000
Falkirk 1200-2000
Livi 500-800
Dumbarton 300-600
Queen of South 400-600
Cowdenbeath 300-400
Alloa 300-400

The novelty factor should ensure that some of the diddies bring extra fans especially local clubs like Raith and Falkirk. Could actually see those clubs sell out the Dunbar end for the 1st round of fixtures just because Hibs will be seen as a scalp.

[TheFamous1875]

This is from an interview at the beginning of last season:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/terry-butcher-says-wont-kill-2210258

Shakhtar stunned the Hoops by playing like Stoke – but Butcher insists his side play more in the style of Arsenal.

The Kazakhs took the high road, bombarding Lennon’s men with
long throws and set-pieces, but the Highlanders prefer to get the ball down and pass through rivals.

Caley Jags showed their silky style last week with a stunning second goal in the 2-0 win over Stuart McCall’s Motherwell.

The Fir Park side were carved open by a slick 12-pass move that was coolly finished off by in-form striker Billy McKay.

Butcher said: “The players have got that in them and it was great when everyone joined in with
the celebrations because it was a really lovely goal.

“Even at the finish, Billy didn’t smash it – he passed it into the net.

“It was an Arsenal goal in many respects. I know people will criticise that because we are nowhere near Arsenal in terms of the size of club or standard of player.

“But I think if you play football like that and have the confidence to do so then it’s going to impress people and hopefully get you the right kind of results.”

The Well win sent Inverness top but the Highlanders won’t be suffering from vertigo. Butcher is always finding new ways to keep his troops motivated and this time he has adopted a new motto – and had it translated into Gaelic.

He said: “It’s a lovely feeling to be top but it’s only a cursory glance at the table at the moment because there is a long way to go.

“It’s early but we have done what has been asked of us and done it with some style.

“I have come up with a phrase in gaelic – Smior, Stoidhil agus Stailinn – which means stamina, style and steel. Everyone has got to show that and it’s the mantra we have taken on this season.

“It suits us. We have fitness and stamina, we showed the steel last week with the likes of Gary Warren, Richie Foran and Ross Draper and then we have the style as we showed with that second goal.”

It's very interesting now to read an interview form a then very confident and ebullient Butcher. He says everything that we want and don't have. That took him 4 years to achieve at Inverness.

He has a clean slate now with lots of the players already being released from his squad. I wonder if he can get Hibs to this level of confidence and performance.

He's had a disaster with last season's squad, and I think his inaugural season as Hibs manager has shown that he is not a great manager. However, his four seasons at Inverness show that he can be a very good manager, and it's the picture painted in that article and the football they played the last two years that gives me the teensy slither of hope that he can do it again.

If he gets the chop, I won't be surprised or sad as his tenure has been catastrophically bad, but if we go the other way, I'll be very happy that he turned it around after such a dire start.


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[The_Horde]

This is from an interview at the beginning of last season:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/terry-butcher-says-wont-kill-2210258

Shakhtar stunned the Hoops by playing like Stoke – but Butcher insists his side play more in the style of Arsenal.

The Kazakhs took the high road, bombarding Lennon’s men with
long throws and set-pieces, but the Highlanders prefer to get the ball down and pass through rivals.

Caley Jags showed their silky style last week with a stunning second goal in the 2-0 win over Stuart McCall’s Motherwell.

The Fir Park side were carved open by a slick 12-pass move that was coolly finished off by in-form striker Billy McKay.

Butcher said: “The players have got that in them and it was great when everyone joined in with
the celebrations because it was a really lovely goal.

“Even at the finish, Billy didn’t smash it – he passed it into the net.

“It was an Arsenal goal in many respects. I know people will criticise that because we are nowhere near Arsenal in terms of the size of club or standard of player.

“But I think if you play football like that and have the confidence to do so then it’s going to impress people and hopefully get you the right kind of results.”

The Well win sent Inverness top but the Highlanders won’t be suffering from vertigo. Butcher is always finding new ways to keep his troops motivated and this time he has adopted a new motto – and had it translated into Gaelic.

He said: “It’s a lovely feeling to be top but it’s only a cursory glance at the table at the moment because there is a long way to go.

“It’s early but we have done what has been asked of us and done it with some style.

“I have come up with a phrase in gaelic – Smior, Stoidhil agus Stailinn – which means stamina, style and steel. Everyone has got to show that and it’s the mantra we have taken on this season.

“It suits us. We have fitness and stamina, we showed the steel last week with the likes of Gary Warren, Richie Foran and Ross Draper and then we have the style as we showed with that second goal.”

It's very interesting now to read an interview form a then very confident and ebullient Butcher. He says everything that we want and don't have. That took him 4 years to achieve at Inverness.

He has a clean slate now with lots of the players already being released from his squad. I wonder if he can get Hibs to this level of confidence and performance.

He's had a disaster with last season's squad, and I think his inaugural season as Hibs manager has shown that he is not a great manager. However, his four seasons at Inverness show that he can be a very good manager, and it's the picture painted in that article and the football they played the last two years that gives me the teensy slither of hope that he can do it again.

If he gets the chop, I won't be surprised or sad as his tenure has been catastrophically bad, but if we go the other way, I'll be very happy that he turned it around after such a dire start.


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"But that's not been his style with hibs"

"Who cares he got us relegated" etc etc

[TheFamous1875]

;4049731']"But that's not been his style with hibs"

"Who cares he got us relegated" etc etc

Ken eh. Mental though how "who cares" comes in when we should all be caring a **** load or be done with it. You just want to shout: "THAT'S 'CAUSE FENLON'S SQUAD WAS ****ING PISH!!"


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[Pete]

This is from an interview at the beginning of last season:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/terry-butcher-says-wont-kill-2210258

Shakhtar stunned the Hoops by playing like Stoke – but Butcher insists his side play more in the style of Arsenal.

The Kazakhs took the high road, bombarding Lennon’s men with
long throws and set-pieces, but the Highlanders prefer to get the ball down and pass through rivals.

Caley Jags showed their silky style last week with a stunning second goal in the 2-0 win over Stuart McCall’s Motherwell.

The Fir Park side were carved open by a slick 12-pass move that was coolly finished off by in-form striker Billy McKay.

Butcher said: “The players have got that in them and it was great when everyone joined in with
the celebrations because it was a really lovely goal.

“Even at the finish, Billy didn’t smash it – he passed it into the net.

“It was an Arsenal goal in many respects. I know people will criticise that because we are nowhere near Arsenal in terms of the size of club or standard of player.

“But I think if you play football like that and have the confidence to do so then it’s going to impress people and hopefully get you the right kind of results.”

The Well win sent Inverness top but the Highlanders won’t be suffering from vertigo. Butcher is always finding new ways to keep his troops motivated and this time he has adopted a new motto – and had it translated into Gaelic.

He said: “It’s a lovely feeling to be top but it’s only a cursory glance at the table at the moment because there is a long way to go.

“It’s early but we have done what has been asked of us and done it with some style.

“I have come up with a phrase in gaelic – Smior, Stoidhil agus Stailinn – which means stamina, style and steel. Everyone has got to show that and it’s the mantra we have taken on this season.

“It suits us. We have fitness and stamina, we showed the steel last week with the likes of Gary Warren, Richie Foran and Ross Draper and then we have the style as we showed with that second goal.”

It's very interesting now to read an interview form a then very confident and ebullient Butcher. He says everything that we want and don't have. That took him 4 years to achieve at Inverness.

He has a clean slate now with lots of the players already being released from his squad. I wonder if he can get Hibs to this level of confidence and performance.

He's had a disaster with last season's squad, and I think his inaugural season as Hibs manager has shown that he is not a great manager. However, his four seasons at Inverness show that he can be a very good manager, and it's the picture painted in that article and the football they played the last two years that gives me the teensy slither of hope that he can do it again.

If he gets the chop, I won't be surprised or sad as his tenure has been catastrophically bad, but if we go the other way, I'll be very happy that he turned it around after such a dire start.


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:agree: Good find.

I really hope he is given the time because no matter what anyone says, we will all be happy of we are like that ICT team in a few years.

The finished product won't be hoof-ball.

[majorhibs]

It appears I am missing out on some right good drugs by not being in Edinburgh the now! Butchers somehow become S.A.F. to some of the Hibs support. Wow!

[Captain Trips]

What sort of reason is "because he isn't at ICT"? It keeps getting brought up because it worked due to the fact it was given time to work.

I notice people keep bringing up his past record and his "failures" but he is now part of a team that was successful including Maurice Malpas and Steve Marsella.

Why don't we discuss that specific management team because that's what's in charge now? Butcher in the past with someone else or on his own is now irrelevant as the team we have has proven that it can work. If you try to use the fact that they were relegated to strengthen your argument you are actually weakening it and demonstrating the strength of the management team. To come from such lows and continually build something special and take it on an upward curve is remarkable given the constraints. The curve was getting steeper until we poached them so in theory, if we leave them to get on with it then the sky is the limit.

If you make allowances for him not being the best man manager when it comes to players who are not chosen by him (he's not perfect, otherwise he wouldn't be here), all you have left is "I dinnae like the fitba".

Ask yourself if the Inverness fans were complaining about the ball not being on the deck all the time as they strolled to victories over teams like ourselves. At the start of last season they were comfortably second and we've been nowhere near anything like that for eight years when it comes to performances. Those who disagreed with ICT and the way they played might have been losers but at least they were gallant losers who refused to appreciate "prehistoric football". Maybe it makes constant bottom six football easier to deal with.

It is a valid and perfectly acceptable reason and I see it is all about ICT with little to no refererence to his actual time here at Hibernian. I am not going to look at what went on with a totally different group of players at a totally different club ahead of his 7 months here in a total hope he manages to pull that off again. He had to start with us playing in the top flight and he mismanaged us to the point we are not in the top flight now.

Jim Duffy had a decent record before Hibernian. James Collins had a decent record. It doesn't work all the time. If a manager has been at the club for what 27 matches close on 6 months and all you have is ICT then that really does say it all does it not.

[Pete]

It is a valid and perfectly acceptable reason and I see it is all about ICT with little to no refererence to his actual time here at Hibernian. I am not going to look at what went on with a totally different group of players at a totally different club ahead of his 7 months here in a total hope he manages to pull that off again. He had to start with us playing in the top flight and he mismanaged us to the point we are not in the top flight now.

Jim Duffy had a decent record before Hibernian. James Collins had a decent record. It doesn't work all the time. If a manager has been at the club for what 27 matches close on 6 months and all you have is ICT then that really does say it all does it not.

So you, along with your mate who's thinking about drugs, are totally ignoring their time at ICT and refuse to even think that they could do something similar here.

It's laughable and I've yet to see one valid reason to convince me that they (yes, THEY before you start waffling on about past records) can't replicate what they've done at ICT.

Short-sighted.

[TornadoHibby]

What sort of reason is "because he isn't at ICT"? It keeps getting brought up because it worked due to the fact it was given time to work.

I notice people keep bringing up his past record and his "failures" but he is now part of a team that was successful including Maurice Malpas and Steve Marsella.

Why don't we discuss that specific management team because that's what's in charge now? Butcher in the past with someone else or on his own is now irrelevant as the team we have has proven that it can work. If you try to use the fact that they were relegated to strengthen your argument you are actually weakening it and demonstrating the strength of the management team. To come from such lows and continually build something special and take it on an upward curve is remarkable given the constraints. The curve was getting steeper until we poached them so in theory, if we leave them to get on with it then the sky is the limit.

If you make allowances for him not being the best man manager when it comes to players who are not chosen by him (he's not perfect, otherwise he wouldn't be here), all you have left is "I dinnae like the fitba".

Ask yourself if the Inverness fans were complaining about the ball not being on the deck all the time as they strolled to victories over teams like ourselves. At the start of last season they were comfortably second and we've been nowhere near anything like that for eight years when it comes to performances. Those who disagreed with ICT and the way they played might have been losers but at least they were gallant losers who refused to appreciate "prehistoric football". Maybe it makes constant bottom six football easier to deal with.

And when folk say that Butcher must go they mean the three (not) musketeers as it was they collectively that ensured that Hibs were relegàted!

The evidence for that was in front of our eyes for their time at Hibs and has been well reported on here for some considerable time but most notably over the past couple of weeks!

The fact that you select only the ICT period of his manager ship cv and ignore everything else which reeks of failure is poor IMO!

He needs to leave now and should resign rather than wait to get sacked IMO.

[Aldo]

Butcher out. Like a previous poster said....wrong pedigree (he was a Hun)....not Hibs class...and a football philosophy from the dark ages. New change from top to bottom required. Would go cap in hand and bring Collins back.

Can't highlight but the bit about him being a Hun ....... What a pathetic thing to say.

[Pete]

And when folk say that Butcher must go they mean the three (not) musketeers as it was they collectively that ensured that Hibs were relegàted!

The evidence for that was in front of our eyes for their time at Hibs and has been well reported on here for some considerable time but most notably over the past couple of weeks!

The fact that you select only the ICT period of his manager ship cv and ignore everything else which reeks of failure is poor IMO!

He needs to leave now and should resign rather than wait to get sacked IMO.

I haven't ignored anything. I've looked at the most relevant information which involves the three of them...which makes damn good reading before coming here. Looking at what Butcher did on his own is irrelevant to an extent as he isn't here on his own.

We all know he ****ed up and I acknowledge they aren't perfect. However, this CAN work and they have proven that they can mould a successful team given time. It would be foolish not to give them a chance.

[flash]

Butcher out.

Like a previous poster said....wrong pedigree (he was a Hun)....not Hibs class...and a football philosophy from the dark ages.

New change from top to bottom required. Would go cap in hand and bring Collins back.

He played for Rangers but he is no Hun. They hate him with a passion because of comments in his book.

[JustSimplyHibs]

It appears I am missing out on some right good drugs by not being in Edinburgh the now! Butchers somehow become S.A.F. to some of the Hibs support. Wow!

The grass is always greener on the positive side! :wink:

[Captain Trips]

So you, along with your mate who's thinking about drugs, are totally ignoring their time at ICT and refuse to even think that they could do something similar here.

It's laughable and I've yet to see one valid reason to convince me that they (yes, THEY before you start waffling on about past records) can't replicate what they've done at ICT.

Short-sighted.


I haven't ignored anything. I've looked at the most relevant information which involves the three of them...which makes damn good reading before coming here. Looking at what Butcher did on his own is irrelevant to an extent as he isn't here on his own.

We all know he ****ed up and I acknowledge they aren't perfect. However, this CAN work and they have proven that they can mould a successful team given time. It would be foolish not to give them a chance.

One valid reason are you really being serious? I will give you a valid reason. Played 27 Won 6 Drawn 7 lost 14. Relegated.

So the most relevent information isnt his 27 games at Hibs it is his games with previous club? That is more relevant? Waffling on about past records? You seem to be the one doing that are you not? all you seem to reference is his past record at a different club is it not?

So he keeps his job based on a different job he did at another club. His own record here isnt good enough so lets just keep him due to ICT and brush that aside. Why not just ignore Fenlon's record here and keep him based on his very good Bohemians record.

[Golden Bear]

Butcher out.

Like a previous poster said....wrong pedigree (he was a Hun)....not Hibs class...and a football philosophy from the dark ages.

New change from top to bottom required. Would go cap in hand and bring Collins back.

What a pathetic poster you are turning out to be. I would suggest that you are the relic from the dark ages.

[Pete]

One valid reason are you really being serious? I will give you a valid reason. Played 27 Won 6 Drawn 7 lost 14. Relegated.

So the most relevent information isnt his 27 games at Hibs it is his games with previous club? That is more relevant? Waffling on about past records? You seem to be the one doing that are you not? all you seem to reference is his past record at a different club is it not?

So he keeps his job based on a different job he did at another club. His own record here isnt good enough so lets just keep him due to ICT and brush that aside. Why not just ignore Fenlon's record here and keep him based on his very good Bohemians record.

Butchers record with inherited players:

Butchers record with his own players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with inherited players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with their own players:



Can you quote the above, filling in the blanks please. We can then discuss what is actually relevant going forward.

[majorhibs]

So you, along with your mate who's thinking about drugs, are totally ignoring their time at ICT and refuse to even think that they could do something similar here.

It's laughable and I've yet to see one valid reason to convince me that they (yes, THEY before you start waffling on about past records) can't replicate what they've done at ICT.

Short-sighted.


The grass is always greener on the positive side! :wink:

Tell you what bud, the happy clappers on here HOPING that these failures are anywhere near good enough to get in the top two are on something waayyy stronger than grass!

[Captain Trips]

Butchers record with inherited players:

Butchers record with his own players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with inherited players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with their own players:



Can you quote the above, filling in the blanks please. We can then discuss what is actually relevant going forward.

I do not need to I have no interest in ICT. I have stated several times to me it is irrelevant and that remains. I have no need or desire to pick out certain scenarios at totally different football clubs as a marker for here it for me has zero none nada relevence at this juncture. If you think what he did at ICT can be done here fine, I happen to think it cannot digging through stats from other clubs will not change that.

A managers record and indeed a players record at last club is only indicative of the job they will be offered on back of that. Your points were valid 6/7 months ago they are IMO not relevant at all now. ICT are irrelevant to me. Ipswich, Sunderland etc etc all irrelevant. 27 games at this club is what it is all about and it is a disgrace.

[Dr Jimmy]

I do not need to I have no interest in ICT. I have stated several times to me it is irrelevant and that remains. I have no need or desire to pick out certain scenarios at totally different football clubs as a marker for here it for me has zero none nada relevence at this juncture. If you think what he did at ICT can be done here fine, I happen to think it cannot digging through stats from other clubs will not change that.

A managers record and indeed a players record at last club is only indicative of the job they will be offered on back of that. Your points were valid 6/7 months ago they are IMO not relevant at all now. ICT are irrelevant to me. Ipswich, Sunderland etc etc all irrelevant. 27 games at this club is what it is all about and it is a disgrace.

Well said.

[The Leith Dutch]

Butchers record with inherited players:

Butchers record with his own players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with inherited players:

Butcher, Malpas and Marsellas record with their own players:

Can you quote the above, filling in the blanks please. We can then discuss what is actually relevant going forward.

If we were to keep him it must be on the assumption that he is at least a decent manager.
I cannot agree that someone is a decent football manager if they cannot engineer competent football out of reasonable squad of players.

Clearly we want better players and yes, a little pace and goal threat is required.

That said, I'm at a loss to explain how "their own players" are going to be stylistically so different that it renders them unable to do a competent job with someone else's players.

This isn't a case of they couldn't play the exact game they wanted.
This is a case of them producing such rank and utter ineptitude that they achieved something that should have been impossible and got us relegated.

[Heedersnvolleys]

I haven't ignored anything. I've looked at the most relevant information which involves the three of them...which makes damn good reading before coming here. Looking at what Butcher did on his own is irrelevant to an extent as he isn't here on his own.

We all know he ****ed up and I acknowledge they aren't perfect. However, this CAN work and they have proven that they can mould a successful team given time. It would be foolish not to give them a chance.

Believe me I want to be convinced. As you say in other posts ignoring all the management teams past record is irrelevant so please give me some evidence, action or I would even settle for a even glimmer of hope what you have seen that us shortsighted people have missed that has convinced you they are they team to turn this mess around?

[Keith_M]

Back to the actual topic........


It's now nearly two weeks since we were relegated and we've still to read or hear anything from Butcher. As the man is (in)famous for yapping to the press, I'm starting to believe there may be something in this rumour after all.

[Lester B]

;4049731']"But that's not been his style with hibs"

"Who cares he got us relegated" etc etc

*bites tongue and conforms to previous vow not to get embroiled again*

[Callum_62]

Back to the actual topic........


It's now nearly two weeks since we were relegated and we've still to read or hear anything from Butcher. As the man is (in)famous for yapping to the press, I'm starting to believe there may be something in this rumour after all.

Arnt they meant to be meeting late this week?

must hear something by end of tomorrow (im sure that will come up/be raised by fans)

Might even be mentioned in Leeanns interview about to be released....

[Bobby's Cinema]

So you, along with your mate who's thinking about drugs, are totally ignoring their time at ICT and refuse to even think that they could do something similar here.

It's laughable and I've yet to see one valid reason to convince me that they (yes, THEY before you start waffling on about past records) can't replicate what they've done at ICT.

Short-sighted.
:hilarious short-sighted? come on mate. You only have to look at what he's done over the last six months. Total destruction to what was already a piss poor bottom six side.

He knew he was only getting a January window with limited opportunity. So he would have to manage players. Be a manager. He has failed dismally.

You will also never convince me that the only style of football available to these not so very good players was the total garbage he has refused to change up.

[SlickShoes]

He still here then?

[RIP Bestie]

I haven't ignored anything. I've looked at the most relevant information which involves the three of them...which makes damn good reading before coming here. Looking at what Butcher did on his own is irrelevant to an extent as he isn't here on his own.

We all know he ****ed up and I acknowledge they aren't perfect. However, this CAN work and they have proven that they can mould a successful team given time. It would be foolish not to give them a chance.
How is it that it's ok to get rid of players who have done it at other clubs but not done it here but it's not ok to get rid of these 3 roasters? Puzzles me.

[Scottie]

How is it that it's ok to get rid of players who have done it at other clubs but not done it here but it's not ok to get rid of these 3 roasters? Puzzles me.

:agree:

[Beefster]

What time is the sacking being announced?

[Waxy]

I wonder. Hibs haven't said hardly a word about the management team lately. You'd think they should have by now. Does anyone think that behind the scenes we've been trying to get a new manager, maybe a couple on Hibs shortlist? But will make do with Butcher and co in the meantime if the targets are unavailable?

[erskine-hibby]

I wonder. Hibs haven't said hardly a word about the management team lately. You'd think they should have by now. Does anyone think that behind the scenes we've been trying to get a new manager, maybe a couple on Hibs shortlist? But will make do with Butcher and co in the meantime if the targets are unavailable?

No.

[Waxy]

No.Thatllbethathen.com :)

[silverhibee]

What time is the sacking being announced?


Just waiting for these pesky Americans to wake up first before it's announced to our new oversea's audience.

[erskine-hibby]

Thatllbethathen.com :)
It will.

[The Leith Dutch]

Just waiting for these pesky Americans to wake up first before it's announced to our new oversea's audience.

In the spirit of cloud cuckoo land fantasy:

Here's hoping John W Henry buys us.
Tie up with Liverpool plus he owns the Red Sox for the Boston / Irish connection which would be great to market Hibs in the US.

Also worth mentioning - he put together a management team targeted at helping the Red Sox overcome the curse of the Bambino ending an 86 year World Series drought.

How do you top that? Scottish Cup at Easter Road will do nicely thankyouverymuch :)

[MontrealHibs]

In the spirit of cloud cuckoo land fantasy:

Here's hoping John W Henry buys us.
Tie up with Liverpool plus he owns the Red Sox for the Boston / Irish connection which would be great to market Hibs in the US.

Also worth mentioning - he put together a management team targeted at helping the Red Sox overcome the curse of the Bambino ending an 86 year World Series drought.

How do you top that? Scottish Cup at Easter Road will do nicely thankyouverymuch :)

I went to watch the Red Sox on Sunday, amazing atmosphere in Boston!

[Turkish Green]

Is he sacked yet?




PETRIE OUT

[MrSmith]

Surely it requires to be unfrozen, rubber-stamped and then faxed to TB in due course?

[Cameron1875]

That last 6 months is the worst football i've seen from an SPL/premiership team in many a year. Players like Craig, Robertson and Thomson weren't signed to sit in midfield and win flick on headers. So **** knows why they were asked to do that.

Absolute managerial charlatan

[One Day Soon]

So is it a TDD kind of Friday sacking for Terry then? News will come through at 2 minutes to 11 or whenever?

This thread should be a salutary reminder to us all about the difference between wild speculation and fact - not of course to be confused with either FACT or .net fact.

[TornadoHibby]

I haven't ignored anything. I've looked at the most relevant information which involves the three of them...which makes damn good reading before coming here. Looking at what Butcher did on his own is irrelevant to an extent as he isn't here on his own.

We all know he ****ed up and I acknowledge they aren't perfect. However, this CAN work and they have proven that they can mould a successful team given time. It would be foolish not to give them a chance.

So is the most relevant information not how they mismanaged the huge number of games (out of the season's total) that they were in charge of as Hibs "management" for want of a better word?! :rolleyes:

It would be foolish to allow them to remain in post and leave us in the next down league, rather than the one where we were playing and where they should have quite easily kept us, had they done their set job for last season properly rather than screwing it up and the Club up for all of its loyal fans! :agree:

[pontius pilate]

We will all find out next week what the future holds for the management team

[greenpaper55]

So is the most relevant information not how they mismanaged the huge number of games (out of the season's total) that they were in charge of as Hibs "management" for want of a better word?! :rolleyes:

It would be foolish to allow them to remain in post and leave us in the next down league, rather than the one where we were playing and where they should have quite easily kept us, had they done their set job for last season properly rather than screwing it up and the Club up for all of its loyal fans! :agree:

Exactly, i have honestly never seen anything like that from us as i witnessed against Hamilton, it was clear the management had not got a clue, mind you Rod probably thought is was not to bad that's how much he knows.

[Steven_Hibs]

We will all find out next week what the future holds for the management team

From seeing Leanne's interview I'm taking from the comments surrounding changes of direction etc, that Butcher is gonna get punted. My source is still convinced it's going to happen! But we'll see

[chrisski33]

From seeing Leanne's interview I'm taking from the comments surrounding changes of direction etc, that Butcher is gonna get punted. My source is still convinced it's going to happen! But we'll see

U said he would be sacked today he hasnt amd isnt gonna be. He will be out manager next season and thats fact.

[superbam]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.

[smurf]

U said he would be sacked today he hasnt amd isnt gonna be. He will be out manager next season and thats fact.

If it's fact then why didn't the CEO say so?

[Greenworld]

If it's fact then why didn't the CEO say so?

Mulling over his pay off offer ?

[emerald green]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.

Well said. :top marks

[chrisski33]

If it's fact then why didn't the CEO say so?

Because butchers sacking isnt on the agenda!

[Glorious St Pat]

U said he would be sacked today he hasnt amd isnt gonna be. He will be out manager next season and thats fact.

God help us then

[Glorious St Pat]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.


:top marks:top marks:top marks:top marks:top marks:top marks

And the sooner this message gets through those still backing him the better!

[Dashing Bob S]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.

I agree completely. I think Butcher is probably the luckiest man in Scottish football. Now he's benefiting from an 'it's all Petrie's fault' mentality. Yes, much of it is Petrie's fault, but he took a decidedly average, underperforming team and gave them one of the worst records of failure in the modern game.

[Swedish hibee]

Has he not gone yet?

[stubru59]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.


Spot on. We are where we are because too many of us have come to accept (or put up with) inept performances.

[LancsHibs]

Has he not gone yet?

Afraid not. Can only assume as he is still here that he won't be going anywhere! If we were getting rid then it should have been the day after the relegation, in fact HE SHOULD HAVE TENDERED HIS RESIGNATION. The longer this drags on the less time any prospective new manager has to sort the shambles that us our squad for next season.
Well if he is staying and it's looking like is, we will just gave to get behind him and hope he can bring in the right mix to get us up.

[Glorious St Pat]

I agree completely. I think Butcher is probably the luckiest man in Scottish football. Now he's benefiting from an 'it's all Petrie's fault' mentality. Yes, much of it is Petrie's fault, but he took a decidedly average, underperforming team and gave them one of the worst records of failure in the modern game.

I also think that if Dempster was to sack him it would send out the right message that she is in charge, that is another slap in Petrie's face and a real sign that failure and mediocrity will not be tolerated at this club.

Those posters willing to give him a chance and cite his record at ICT are missing the bigger picture - look at his managerial career, look at the number of times he has been sacked, look at the number of clubs that have been relegated under his watch.

I would bring in Collins and possibly Lennon as a sidekick.

[staunchhibby]

If Butcher remains its a bad day for all Hibees.He has done enough damage.

[Glorious St Pat]

Afraid not. Can only assume as he is still here that he won't be going anywhere! If we were getting rid then it should have been the day after the relegation, in fact HE SHOULD HAVE TENDERED HIS RESIGNATION. The longer this drags on the less time any prospective new manager has to sort the shambles that us our squad for next season.
Well if he is staying and it's looking like is, we will just gave to get behind him and hope he can bring in the right mix to get us up.


Whose to say that Leeann hasn't already put the feelers out with regard a new manager. It is clear from her interview that she wants a new direction for the club. I am uncertain how Butcher fits into this new direction. If it means being more "direct" God help us!

[Glorious St Pat]

Interesting article on Butcher on the day of the Raith Cup disaster.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-terry-butcher-on-music-politics-and-more-1-3299040

Some choice quotes:

"When the Hibs job came up, though, I just went: ‘Wow.’ I always looked at them and thought they only needed the right person to get them going because everything else was in place.” [well you screwed that up]

"Maybe the last thing I’d say to my team would be: ‘There’s a blank canvas waiting for you out there, lads – go and paint.’ Now, be honest, do you not feel a little bit motivated? … ” [psuedo intellectual bollocks]

"Another time I handed out feathers. They can signify cowardice but I got the guys to think about how, among the North American Indians, they mean the bravest of the brave. Some put them in their socks, others their jockstraps.” ICT won that day, too, and how tickled Butcher must have been by that. [Just WOW]

“I don’t think Hibs are quite ready for this kind of stuff. Some of the guys are still worried about the games and how they’re going to play. They don’t know me well enough yet so they’re a bit afraid to say anything.” [built up a great rapport then?]

Right away, he detected a hangover still lingering from those crushing defeats by Hearts and Malmo (5-1 and 7-0) so David Yeoman, the mind guru he used at Inverness, is trying to “clear their timelines”. [still didn't work did it?]

Do his new charges find him intimidating? He laughs. “I guess, but the one they should be worried about is Maurice [Malpas, No 2] who by the way I rate as the best coach in Scotland." [Really and perhaps explain the Thomson rumour]

And why is in the pub giving an interview in Gullane on the same day as we're playing Raith in the Cup?

Oh and he's a Tory to boot...great! (Am I allowed to say this net?)

[Borderhibbie76]

My first impression from watching the LD interviews is he WILL be punted next week. If he was staying she would have said so categorically. ..but she didn't. Imo he is mulling over a pay off and I hope this is the case. Regardless of squad issues he has been an abject failure worse than Calderwood and needs to go!! If he stays and we don't start next season well.....well I think we all know the script from here a la Yogi, fenlon etc etc

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[leither17]

Interesting article on Butcher on the day of the Raith Cup disaster.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-terry-butcher-on-music-politics-and-more-1-3299040

Some choice quotes:

"When the Hibs job came up, though, I just went: ‘Wow.’ I always looked at them and thought they only needed the right person to get them going because everything else was in place.” [well you screwed that up]

"Maybe the last thing I’d say to my team would be: ‘There’s a blank canvas waiting for you out there, lads – go and paint.’ Now, be honest, do you not feel a little bit motivated? … ” [psuedo intellectual bollocks]

"Another time I handed out feathers. They can signify cowardice but I got the guys to think about how, among the North American Indians, they mean the bravest of the brave. Some put them in their socks, others their jockstraps.” ICT won that day, too, and how tickled Butcher must have been by that. [Just WOW]

“I don’t think Hibs are quite ready for this kind of stuff. Some of the guys are still worried about the games and how they’re going to play. They don’t know me well enough yet so they’re a bit afraid to say anything.” [built up a great rapport then?]

Right away, he detected a hangover still lingering from those crushing defeats by Hearts and Malmo (5-1 and 7-0) so David Yeoman, the mind guru he used at Inverness, is trying to “clear their timelines”. [still didn't work did it?]

Do his new charges find him intimidating? He laughs. “I guess, but the one they should be worried about is Maurice [Malpas, No 2] who by the way I rate as the best coach in Scotland." [Really and perhaps explain the Thomson rumour]

And why is in the pub giving an interview in Gullane on the same day as we're playing Raith in the Cup?

Oh and he's a Tory to boot...great! (Am I allowed to say this net?)

That's the day I lost all faith in him we were destroyed by a below par championship team and he didn't have a clue how to change it

[GreenCastle]

Was told tonight something might happen next week.

Not sacked but mutually agreed he leaves.

Not concrete but we should know next week either way.

Personally backed him before he arrived but we should never have gone down BUT he's press the self destruct button and seriously made Fenlons team worse by falling out with several players - crap players or not he needed them to stay in the league!

If he does stay we will know within the first 45mins of pre-season if he will play the ball from the back and look to pass it or play long and direct...zzzzz!

[Del Boy]

Few rumours now that he will be gone by middle of next week. Please be true.

[Paisley Hibby]

Few rumours now that he will be gone by middle of next week. Please be true.

He will definitely be gone next week....



....to Brazil.

[Niffy]

I just watched Stotty's interview with Leeanne. Well first part anyway.

All I got from that is Terry will be sacked next week when he comes back.
Or as I think she called it ... addressed then.

[pacorosssco]

Interesting article on Butcher on the day of the Raith Cup disaster.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-terry-butcher-on-music-politics-and-more-1-3299040

Some choice quotes:

"When the Hibs job came up, though, I just went: ‘Wow.’ I always looked at them and thought they only needed the right person to get them going because everything else was in place.” [well you screwed that up]

"Maybe the last thing I’d say to my team would be: ‘There’s a blank canvas waiting for you out there, lads – go and paint.’ Now, be honest, do you not feel a little bit motivated? … ” [psuedo intellectual bollocks]

"Another time I handed out feathers. They can signify cowardice but I got the guys to think about how, among the North American Indians, they mean the bravest of the brave. Some put them in their socks, others their jockstraps.” ICT won that day, too, and how tickled Butcher must have been by that. [Just WOW]

“I don’t think Hibs are quite ready for this kind of stuff. Some of the guys are still worried about the games and how they’re going to play. They don’t know me well enough yet so they’re a bit afraid to say anything.” [built up a great rapport then?]

Right away, he detected a hangover still lingering from those crushing defeats by Hearts and Malmo (5-1 and 7-0) so David Yeoman, the mind guru he used at Inverness, is trying to “clear their timelines”. [still didn't work did it?]

Do his new charges find him intimidating? He laughs. “I guess, but the one they should be worried about is Maurice [Malpas, No 2] who by the way I rate as the best coach in Scotland." [Really and perhaps explain the Thomson rumour]

And why is in the pub giving an interview in Gullane on the same day as we're playing Raith in the Cup?

Oh and he's a Tory to boot...great! (Am I allowed to say this net?)

Great post. Mad man who looks luke benefited good infa structure ict. Tory who needs em indeed.from another planet

[IberianHibernian]

In most European countries he`d have been sacked before the play off , maybe several weeks before it . Fact he`s still with us suggests he was given such a ridiculously high salary that he doesn`t want to resign and we can`t afford to sack him . He`s had amazing protection from the press and if we sack him sections of press will be quick to back him so maybe we`re hoping he`ll get an offer from elsewhere though his performance with us won`t have helped his reputation . Hopefully we can look for a new manager soon ( maybe are already looking ) . Still time to have thorough selection process ( how we`re paying for not doing that when Fenlon left ) .

[Sir David Gray]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.

[craigmounthibby]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.
Sounds absurd? Sounds like Hibs.

[GreenCastle]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.

I do find this strange and another reason relegation and RP (not having a clue what's going on) are bad news.

I guess TB still had the power to get rid of players as he maybe felt they had severely let him down (rightly or wrongly as we don't know the full story - only snippets from sources on here etc).

What I heard is he's not getting sacked - another issue has supposedly come up which will see him mutually leave (Hibs find new fresh manage (less compensation) and Butcher doesn't have sacking on his CV and TB can attend to the issue which has supposedly come up outwith football).

Probably find out either way Wednesday next week.

[silverhibee]

She is buying time to get a new manager in place, Butcher will be gone next week, he has lost the support and LD knows this and there is no way back for him now, i can understand why it has to be done but i will still be pretty annoyed at the decision as i would think Butcher was probably told last week but if it was done then it would be Petrie doing the sacking again, that wouldn't look good on him so let LD do it next week.

In a mess.

[stubru59]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.

Most of these players were out of contract anyway. And while we can argue the toss about this one or that one, none of them came into the must keep category. More to the point, assessing the limitations of the playing staff was not exactly a complex operation.

[Heedersnvolleys]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.

See I don't, the players that left last week were always going to leaving. So he really done the easy bit and it is the next bit they don't trust him with so hopefully someone else will be brought in to do the hard part.

[craigmounthibby]

I also think that if Dempster was to sack him it would send out the right message that she is in charge, that is another slap in Petrie's face and a real sign that failure and mediocrity will not be tolerated at this club.

Those posters willing to give him a chance and cite his record at ICT are missing the bigger picture - look at his managerial career, look at the number of times he has been sacked, look at the number of clubs that have been relegated under his watch.

I would bring in Collins and possibly Lennon as a sidekick.
I assume you mean John Collins?

He won the league cup in 2007, with Tony Mowbray's players. But not one single player he signed was even remotely acceptable: Brian Kerr, Patrick Noubissie, Thierry Gatheussi, Yves Makalambay, Alan O'Brien, Antoine-Curier, Clayton Donaldson, Torben Joneleit. The football was utter, utter mince (20 passes to reach the half way line), with the goalie constantly rolling it out.

And he played Kevin McCann at centre half away to Aberdeen.

We'd be better off with Jackie Collins.

[SMAXXA]

Going nowhere

[Sir David Gray]

Most of these players were out of contract anyway. And while we can argue the toss about this one or that one, none of them came into the must keep category. More to the point, assessing the limitations of the playing staff was not exactly a complex operation.

I don't have a problem with most of them leaving but Williams and Thomson being allowed to leave was certainly controversial and decisions such as that really shouldn't be taken by a manager if he's about to lose his job.

[chrisski33]

[QUOTE=Trig;4050827]I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.[/QUOTE

Its absurd as he aint getting sacked nor resigning. The rumours are all tosh according to my source

[Captain Trips]

I don't have a problem with most of them leaving but Williams and Thomson being allowed to leave was certainly controversial and decisions such as that really shouldn't be taken by a manager if he's about to lose his job.

The players may have expressed to the club that they were calling it no matter who was in charge maybe.

[Sir David Gray]

The players may have expressed to the club that they were calling it no matter who was in charge maybe.

Possibly.

I just would have thought that Butcher would have gone by now if he was going to be sacked.

We're at the end of the second full week following our relegation. We've obviously not played since then so nothing's changed between the Hamilton game and now to make it more likely that Butcher will be sacked so I don't understand the delay.

If he's going to go, I would have expected it to have happened before now.

We're losing crucial time, if we are going to get rid of him, in allowing his successor to build the team for next season.

Our first match of the new season is 7 weeks tomorrow in the Ramsdens Cup. I know the transfer window is open until the end of August but I think it's vital that we have the vast majority of our new squad together by the time that match comes round so there's not long left.

[stubru59]

Going nowhere


Surely not a result based decision?

[jacomo]

[QUOTE=Trig;4050827]I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.[/QUOTE

Its absurd as he aint getting sacked nor resigning. The rumours are all tosh according to my source

Unless your source is Leeann D herself I'd pay little attention.

[Steven_Hibs]

U said he would be sacked today he hasnt amd isnt gonna be. He will be out manager next season and thats fact.

That's what I was told.

[Cameron1875]

Just go Terry.

[hibby67]

See ya

[Baader]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.

Great post. Agree with all of it. The first responsibility of any manager is getting the best out of what you have. Butcher failed spectacularly with that one - the wheels well and truly came off as we headed for a spectacular relegation crash.

He's another Duffy that managed to deceive his now obvious shortcomings with a good value, 'tell it like it is' personality and a good press.

He should have offered his resignation after taking us down. We are not Inverness - he is not up to it and he knows it.

[Last Minute]

Leeann said she would listen to the fans, let's tell her then, we want Collins back, let's then see if Petrie has nothing to do with her decisions .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[H18Y GW]

Certainly they had and have better players than us . You are still comparing apples and pears

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .

[Winston Ingram]

I think Butcher has pulled a con-job on Scottish football fans, with the help of the press. He seems to be unduly revered. He has cultivated this image of a no-nonsense manager that talks a good game, he is even courted by corporation to give talks on management techniques and motivation (!). He has a 35% win percentage as a manager – yet he is celebrated for getting Inverness relegated then taking them to fourth in the SPL. That’s an achievement, but I can’t understand why this is good enough for Hibs to aspire to replicate. Relegation from a position of safety within 6 months should be an automatic sacking, and that's without considering the circumstances and timing are significantly more disastrous this year than they would usually be.

Why does he need to get his own players in before we can judge him? Many people wanted Fenlon gone because they didn't think he was getting enough out of the squad we had. Butcher couldn't even maintain this level of mediocrity; indeed under his watch we became considerably worse. It seems he effectively wrote off last season, and a good number of players, early in his tenure- and quite publicly. Despite this being not good enough under any circumstances, it was an unforgiveable error of judgement. Failure to organize and motivate that team to hold out on a 2-0 advantage at home to Hamilton is reason enough to punt him, never mind his catalogue of disasters and playing a medieval brand of rudderless football which has made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are.

I can’t believe we are even discussing if he should go or not. It scares me that some of us think what he has done is somehow acceptable.

Superb post.

[LancsHibs]

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .

Don't agree mate, we weren't getting relegated under Fenlon, relegation never crossed my mind until after Butcher had taken over and we were on our slump. If we were apples we were sour under Fenlon and went rotten under Butcher.

[TornadoHibby]

Don't agree mate, we weren't getting relegated under Fenlon, relegation never crossed my mind until after Butcher had taken over and we were on our slump. If we were apples we were sour under Fenlon and went rotten under Butcher.

:top marks

[jeffers]

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .
I don't agree with a word of that. Players weren't great but TB managed to make them a lot worse. We looked like middle of the table under PF, not relegation candidates.

Again don't agree there was no money to bring in players in January, there was scope for loans but whereas Partick for example secured Lyle Taylor our dream team opted for Danny Haynes - I know who I'd have preferred. And don't get me started on Boateng.

F off Terry from our club.

[Waxy]

Seems like man management let them down. Suppose you can be the best coach in the world but if you dont show people a bit respect then you'll get nothing.

[Alfred E Newman]

Whatever your veiws on Butcher, it is obvious that a large proportion of the support now have no confidence in the management team.
If the club is to recover from this nightmare it is essential that the fans are united behind the manager.
Hopefully Dempster will realise this and act accordingly and reading her comments yesterday I am hopeful she will.

[MacGruber]

I can't believe he would have been allowed to make the decision to let 14 players leave at the end of the season, if he was going to be sacked just a couple of weeks later.

Sounds absurd.

I know what you mean but looking at it from a different perspective (watching Leean's interview and choice of language, sounds to me Terry is gone) of there being a new manager set to come in.....

None of the 14 out of contract players could have been retained. They were free agents along with all other out of contract free agents at other clubs. With no manager you couldn't give any a contract as the new man might not fancy any. Say you kept Thomson, signed an expensive 3 year deal and the new man comes in a week later and doesn't fancy him. Retaining any would effectively be like the board deciding on players and eating into the new manager's budget. Without a new manager we wouldn't sign somebody elses out of contract player. The only one that has gone under contract is James Collins, if it's a mutually beneficial deal (which means more than released for my money, sell-on clause/Shrewsbury paying Swindon) then I can understand the club's thinking.

It would leave however a strange scenario of Butcher (if gone) having a say on any under contract player, like telling Craig he can go etc.

At least the one positive is Leean comes over very well and it's the first thing (interview) in a while which I've taken optimism from for the future well-being of the club. Leean's the man.. so to speak!

[Father Ted]

Why are people no longer wiling to accept responsibility for their failures and resign, both Petrie & Butcher are responsible for our relegation but neither are willing to walk despite admitting culpability. I think we need rid of both for a fresh start.

[Callum_62]

Leeann said she would listen to the fans, let's tell her then, we want Collins back, let's then see if Petrie has nothing to do with her decisions .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do we really want Collins back as manager?

Count me out of that one

[craigmounthibby]

Leeann said she would listen to the fans, let's tell her then, we want Collins back, let's then see if Petrie has nothing to do with her decisions .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Erm, no, we absolutely do not want Collins back. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Short memory, some people.

[Glorious St Pat]

In most European countries he`d have been sacked before the play off , maybe several weeks before it . Fact he`s still with us suggests he was given such a ridiculously high salary that he doesn`t want to resign and we can`t afford to sack him . He`s had amazing protection from the press and if we sack him sections of press will be quick to back him so maybe we`re hoping he`ll get an offer from elsewhere though his performance with us won`t have helped his reputation . Hopefully we can look for a new manager soon ( maybe are already looking ) . Still time to have thorough selection process ( how we`re paying for not doing that when Fenlon left ) .

Dont think he got a great reception by the press after the Hamilton debacle..numerous articles slating him especially the Tom English one.

[SanFranHibs]

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .

1)
I disagree that we were being relegated with Fenlon. When he left us we were in 7th place but FIVE poins behind Aberdeen in second and far ahead of the relegation zone (28 poins ahead of Hearts at one point) and I don't recall anyone mentioning Hibs as future relegation candidates. Fenlons points % with Hibs over his tenure was 35% whereas Butchers is 20% and if you take away Butchers 2 defeats in his first ten his % drops down to a ridiculously low number. Also, Fenlon had left us close enough to the top 6 that if I recall correctly we actually passed St Johnstone into 6th although they had a game in hand I believe. We cannot blame Fenlon at all for being relegated when even in the worst scenario that we slumped into the playoff spot we had a 2 goal lead going into the second leg AT HOME. And you can't blame Fenlon for TB's 3 magnificent loan signings.

2)

Leeann said she would listen to the fans, let's tell her then, we want Collins back, let's then see if Petrie has nothing to do with her decisions .
You are not speaking for me.

If we are going to clean house it has to be Petrie, TB and all the low quality players we have. Not likely to happen I fear.

[Glorious St Pat]

Erm, no, we absolutely do not want Collins back. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Short memory, some people.

I would take him back as long as he had total autonomy and was suitably backed.

[Glorious St Pat]

I assume you mean John Collins?

He won the league cup in 2007, with Tony Mowbray's players. But not one single player he signed was even remotely acceptable: Brian Kerr, Patrick Noubissie, Thierry Gatheussi, Yves Makalambay, Alan O'Brien, Antoine-Curier, Clayton Donaldson, Torben Joneleit. The football was utter, utter mince (20 passes to reach the half way line), with the goalie constantly rolling it out.

And he played Kevin McCann at centre half away to Aberdeen.

We'd be better off with Jackie Collins.

Apart from a few, the majority would not be his first pick....again another example of Petrie not backing his manager.

[GlenrothesHibee]

Erm, no, we absolutely do not want Collins back. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Short memory, some people.

Collins? Dear god no. His woeful signings and poor management led us on the road to where we find ourselves today. Im out.

[Peevemor]

Collins? Dear god no. His woeful signings and poor management led us on the road to where we find ourselves today. Im out.

:agree: Exactly

[craigmounthibby]

I would take him back as long as he had total autonomy and was suitably backed.
But why? What has he achieved in management in the 6+ years since he left? Per my earlier post, his signings were, without exception, dreadful.

[SanFranHibs]

I would take him back as long as he had total autonomy and was suitably backed.

For clubs of Hibs means there can never be complete managerial/coach autonomy as the first time a manager might say 'I want this player in' or 'We need to break our wage structure somehow to keep this player' and Petrie (or whomever might be in his place) says no, the complete autonomy vanishes.

Also, I just don't rate him too highly as coach or a man manager.

Just my opinion but if we want a completely new direction then it must be completely and not turning the clock back, especially to a time when player/manager/board realations were strained and seemed to precipitate our slide into a lower division.

[Winston Ingram]

I assume you mean John Collins?

He won the league cup in 2007, with Tony Mowbray's players. But not one single player he signed was even remotely acceptable: Brian Kerr, Patrick Noubissie, Thierry Gatheussi, Yves Makalambay, Alan O'Brien, Antoine-Curier, Clayton Donaldson, Torben Joneleit. The football was utter, utter mince (20 passes to reach the half way line), with the goalie constantly rolling it out.

And he played Kevin McCann at centre half away to Aberdeen.

We'd be better off with Jackie Collins.

This.

[H18Y GW]

But why? What has he achieved in management in the 6+ years since he left? Per my earlier post, his signings were, without exception, dreadful.


Loved your Previous post,Collins won with Mowbrays team,something Mowbray even against a piss poor Livi team and numerous other semi final ***** ups couldnt do......So it was Mowbrays team:aok:

Whos team got us relegated...Fenlons:aok: or Butchers ???

Intresting No ??

[Lucius Apuleius]

I don't understand this rubbish that we have yobuy out his contract if we sack him. I worked under a year by year contract for years. Firstly I never felt intimidated by it knowing full well that if I did my job for that year I would get another year's contract ( usually with a renegotiated wage package). If I was a bad boy or the company tnought I wasn't doing my job properly they could have quite easily terminated by appointment by giving me the 30 days notice stipulated in my contract. Why should football, management especially, be any different?

[AlbertK86]

She is buying time to get a new manager in place, Butcher will be gone next week, he has lost the support and LD knows this and there is no way back for him now, i can understand why it has to be done but i will still be pretty annoyed at the decision as i would think Butcher was probably told last week but if it was done then it would be Petrie doing the sacking again, that wouldn't look good on him so let LD do it next week. In a mess.

Could be viewed both ways .... Letting Leeann sort out his departure gets the support on her side and shows she is here to be ruthless

However I still ain't convinced she has made up her mind that she is binning him for definite. She says they have talked a lot and I think she will have the courtesy to listen to his plans before she makes a final decision

[AlbertK86]

Leeann said she would listen to the fans, let's tell her then, we want Collins back, let's then see if Petrie has nothing to do with her decisions . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Much as I would love Collins back it looks like he's going to be no 2 at the Sellick

[Moon unit]

If...he is sacked,could we have Mr Mowbray back please Leanne?

[SanFranHibs]

Loved your Previous post,Collins won with Mowbrays team,something Mowbray even against a piss poor Livi team and numerous other semi final ***** ups couldnt do......So it was Mowbrays team:aok:

Whos team got us relegated...Fenlons:aok: or Butchers ???

Intresting No ??

Collins won us the cup WITH Mowbrays team and Butcher got us relegated WITH Fenlons team.

Let's not get too excited about a record of winning a League Cup othewrise we will be wanting Alex Miller back. (Not sure if he won the cup with HIS team :wink:).

[H18Y GW]

If...he is sacked,could we have Mr Mowbray back please Leanne?

Now thats funny:faf::faf:

Good to see humour creeping back in

[H18Y GW]

Collins won us the cup WITH Mowbrays team and Butcher got us relegated WITH Fenlons team.

Let's not get too excited about a record of winning a League Cup othewrise we will be wanting Alex Miller back. (Not sure if he won the cup with HIS team :wink:).


Why not,it was "all" Eddie Turnbull done,***** manager also:ostrich:

[madsen5]

From seeing Leanne's interview I'm taking from the comments surrounding changes of direction etc, that Butcher is gonna get punted. My source is still convinced it's going to happen! But we'll see
Agree that's how it sounded:flag:

[Aldo]

Apart from a few, the majority would not be his first pick....again another example of Petrie not backing his manager.

Thing is though he didn't need to bring all these players in but use his budget accordingly.... Instead he brought quite a lot of very very poor players to the club.

The bids he attempted to make for Naismith etc was an attempt to call Petries bluff. Collins knew exactly what his budget was and wasn't happy so got out.

Not saying Petrie is faultless but who bought these players to club.... Collins. How many did he bring in that were successes??? None I think.

Some of his decisions and team selections/formations were poor.... McCann at CH.

His time at Charleroi ended in similar fashion.

Very very good player but not a very good manager IMHO.

So it's a no from me (again)

[SanFranHibs]

Why not,it was "all" Eddie Turnbull done,***** manager also:ostrich:

But did I say I was excited about Eddie Turnbull?

:wink:


And we all know his team should have won more and we were still humiliated in a couple of Scottish Cup thrashings. Indeed maybe with the quality of players he had at his disposal his team was a bigger failure.

:greengrin

Ah, it's just grand being a Hibs fan !

[The Leith Dutch]

I'm inclined to agree that as manager it wouldn't work but I would have John Collins back as director of Football.

We talk regularly of the culture at Hibs being wrong:
poor football
players with the wrong attitude
the George Street antics.

I think Collins knows exactly how to address this.

His approach to the "professional" part of being a "professional footballer" is exemplary - he understands the importance of diet, lifestyle and the idea that footballers must look at the opposition (who are also good players) and ask themselves what they're going to do to get that edge on them.

He would set the requirements for employees on the footballing side of the business and those standards would be met.

I'd also suggest that these dietary/lifestyle/training changes are easier pushed from a Director of Football role where they are not complicated by the need to work with the players day to day and inspire them to play for you.

Secondly, he understands how the game needs to be played.

There was an interview posted on here with him where he was hugely frustrated with the fact that most goalkeepers do most of their distribution by punting the ball down the pitch - at best a 50/50 for retaining possession. He made the point that nowhere in your coaching badges is that trained or encouraged.

As a single point for what was wrong with the way Hibs played under Butcher it sums up my frustrations - a failure to grasp the basics of retaining possession and the percentages of a given ball working out.

Collins, as Director of Football would set the style of play that everyone pulling on a Hibs jersey would adhere to.

This to me is what Collins is good for and what role he should play in the club.

[eastmainsmsh]

I'm inclined to agree that as manager it wouldn't work but I would have John Collins back as director of Football.

We talk regularly of the culture at Hibs being wrong:
poor football
players with the wrong attitude
the George Street antics.

I think Collins knows exactly how to address this.

His approach to the "professional" part of being a "professional footballer" is exemplary - he understands the importance of diet, lifestyle and the idea that footballers must look at the opposition (who are also good players) and ask themselves what they're going to do to get that edge on them.

He would set the requirements for employees on the footballing side of the business and those standards would be met.

I'd also suggest that these dietary/lifestyle/training changes are easier pushed from a Director of Football role where they are not complicated by the need to work with the players day to day and inspire them to play for you.

Secondly, he understands how the game needs to be played.

There was an interview posted on here with him where he was hugely frustrated with the fact that most goalkeepers do most of their distribution by punting the ball down the pitch - at best a 50/50 for retaining possession. He made the point that nowhere in your coaching badges is that trained or encouraged.

As a single point for what was wrong with the way Hibs played under Butcher it sums up my frustrations - a failure to grasp the basics of retaining possession and the percentages of a given ball working out.

Collins, as Director of Football would set the style of play that everyone pulling on a Hibs jersey would adhere to.

This to me is what Collins is good for and what role he should play in the club.


I'd love Collins back with Murray and buezelin involved

[SanFranHibs]

Thing is though he didn't need to bring all these players in but use his budget accordingly.... Instead he brought quite a lot of very very poor players to the club.

The bids he attempted to make for Naismith etc was an attempt to call Petries bluff. Collins knew exactly what his budget was and wasn't happy so got out.

Not saying Petrie is faultless but who bought these players to club.... Collins. How many did he bring in that were successes??? None I think.

Some of his decisions and team selections/formations were poor.... McCann at CH.

His time at Charleroi ended in similar fashion.

Very very good player but not a very good manager IMHO.

So it's a no from me (again)

We are talking about rebuilding, starting again, clean sweep etc....so why bring in a manager who will split the fan base immediately. Like you, I do not think he is a good manager and although he 'steered' Charleroi to league safety (in otherwords they were **** but stayed up), he then quit, he had previously quit Hibs, subsequently quit Livi as DoF when Evans was jettisoned and generally pisses his players off with his six pack.

Great player but not a great manager and does not seem to get on with players and boardroom staff alike. Just what we need!

We need to be united behind our next manager and give him at least half a season before we ALL call for his head! :wink:

All for goals and glory, now !

[Scorrie]

Collins being linked very strongly to the DoF post at Celtic

[Aldo]

We are talking about rebuilding, starting again, clean sweep etc....so why bring in a manager who will split the fan base immediately. Like you, I do not think he is a good manager and although he 'steered' Charleroi to league safety (in otherwords they were **** but stayed up), he then quit, he had previously quit Hibs, subsequently quit Livi as DoF when Evans was jettisoned and generally pisses his players off with his six pack. Great player but not a great manager and does not seem to get on with players and boardroom staff alike. Just what we need! We need to be united behind our next manager and give him at least half a season before we ALL call for his head! :wink: All for goals and glory, now !


Good post SFH!!! Defo not a good manager but excellent player.

[3pm]

Terry Butcher got whipped off Raith, Hamilton and Hearts. Doesnae scream championship manager to me.

[Eternal Hibbie]

[QUOTE=SanFranHibs;4051090]Collins won us the cup WITH Mowbrays team and Butcher got us relegated WITH Fenlons team.

Thing is, as has been mentioned on here many times, Butcher had the opportunity to change and improve Fenlons team in the January window which he patently didn't do, actually his three signings arguably made it worse so for me its a no brainer - he's totally responsible for the position we are in, will never forgive him for that.

I have been a Hibbie a lot longer than Terry Butcher and will continue to be so long after he is gone - get rid of please asap.

[H18Y GW]

[QUOTE=SanFranHibs;4051090]Collins won us the cup WITH Mowbrays team and Butcher got us relegated WITH Fenlons team.

Thing is, as has been mentioned on here many times, Butcher had the opportunity to change and improve Fenlons team in the January window which he patently didn't do, actually his three signings arguably made it worse so for me its a no brainer - he's totally responsible for the position we are in, will never forgive him for that.

I have been a Hibbie a lot longer than Terry Butcher and will continue to be so long after he is gone - get rid of please asap.

So who won the cup TM or JC lol

[H18Y GW]

Terry Butcher got whipped off Raith, Hamilton and Hearts. Doesnae scream championship manager to me.

Fenlon got whooped of Hearts Ayr Utd Hearts , Hearts again and did I mention 1-5 or 0-9 From the mighty Malmo

Not having it , Butcher hasn't done well I accept that but Fenlon was a clown with **** players

Mowbray done ***** with great players

And JC gets a hard time for only winning the league cup , it's hilarious

[Eternal Hibbie]

[QUOTE=Eternal Hibbie;4051203]

So who won the cup TM or JC lol

Hibs did !!! :p

[jdships]

Collins being linked very strongly to the DoF post at Celtic

Good !! :greengrin:thumbsup:

[jacomo]

I'd love Collins back with Murray and buezelin involved

Completely :agree:

Collins had weaknesses in terms of identifying players to bring in on our limited budget and possibly man management but so much of what he believes in is right.

If someone mentions McCann at CH again I will scream. It was a single selection that didn't work out FFS.

[Turkish Green]

Great player but not a great manager and does not seem to get on with players and boardroom staff alike. Just what we need!

Very much this. I would even go as far as to say that JC is a very good coach but he has very poor people skills.

I knew JC due to his involvement with Hutchie and again at Livi were my lad was at their academy. The first thing he does at Livi is disband their successful U17s and U19s squads. Didn't last long until he fell out with Gordon Macdougall. I cannot see him lasting long in the post at Celtic, if appointed.

[Greenblood70]

We need to unite behind the club next season, so far that reason retaining Butcher and Malpas would hamstring us from the start. I feel optimistic that LD has a vision to improve things at ER. The best way to do that in the short term is to get an entertaining team playing football on the deck. Butcher has had his chance and blown it in a way none of us could have envisaged when he arrived. He simply has to go, I do not want his influence anywhere near Easter Road.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SanFranHibs]

[QUOTE=Eternal Hibbie;4051203]

So who won the cup TM or JC lol

JC won it. Thought I was clear on that. ;) no problem giving JC credit for it. But as for his people skills and his signings? Not outstanding I think is fair to say.

[blackpoolhibs]

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .

My arse, we were relegated by Butcher, nobody else but him and the other chuckle brother took us down.

[majorhibs]

My arse, we were relegated by Butcher, nobody else but him and the other chuckle brother took us down.

Just amazing the lengths some people seem to want to go to deflect blame off these jokers. Not only did these clowns relegate us, they did it in the most inept embarrassing way you could probably imagine. Just what is it some folk seem to see that makes them think these imposters can suddenly come good? :confused:

[The Green Goblin]

My arse, we were relegated by Butcher, nobody else but him and the other chuckle brother took us down.

Yup. We were stagnating under Fenlon. We sank under Butcher.

[The Green Goblin]

Just amazing the lengths some people seem to want to go to deflect blame off these jokers. Not only did these clowns relegate us, they did it in the most inept embarrassing way you could probably imagine. Just what is it some folk seem to see that makes them think these imposters can suddenly come good? :confused:

Totally agree.

[Winston Ingram]

If we were the Apples , Butcher inherited them and most were bad .
We were getting relegated under Fenlon, we got a pick up after TB signed and then the Rot set back in.

And there was no money to sign players in January, Fenlon had blown the lot .

What utter guff:rolleyes:

[Scottie]

Going nowhere


Just amazing the lengths some people seem to want to go to deflect blame off these jokers. Not only did these clowns relegate us, they did it in the most inept embarrassing way you could probably imagine. Just what is it some folk seem to see that makes them think these imposters can suddenly come good? :confused:

:agree: Bang on

[emerald green]

Just amazing the lengths some people seem to want to go to deflect blame off these jokers. Not only did these clowns relegate us, they did it in the most inept embarrassing way you could probably imagine. Just what is it some folk seem to see that makes them think these imposters can suddenly come good? :confused:

:agree: There are none so blind that will not see. Maybe they are just hoping for a miracle or something?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Collins ................... Please no!

Opinons are divided as to the League cup win. For me the kicker is that with the players we had it is the best chance we have had of winning the Scottish Cup in my time supporting Hibs ..... especially considering how bad celtic were at the time. He couldn't get us past Dunfermline with two goes at it.

[Pete]

:agree: There are none so blind that will not see. Maybe they are just hoping for a miracle or something?

Maybe they are not blind and are looking at the bigger picture.

Don't get me wrong, there is an overwhelming case for sacking them and I see where you guys are coming from but I'm simply not going to join in with the campaign to oust them. If they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do and will be right behind them.

As for not making informed decisions, why would you ignore 75% of a management TEAM'S time together when making a judgement on them?
If there's one camp here thats "blind" or missing anythjng in their analysis it certainly isn't the one I'm in.

And majorhibs, you should try some of that grass as its known to chill you out and make you open-minded.

[Lester B]

Fenlon got whooped of Hearts Ayr Utd Hearts , Hearts again and did I mention 1-5 or 0-9 From the mighty Malmo

Not having it , Butcher hasn't done well I accept that but Fenlon was a clown with **** players

Mowbray done ***** with great players

And JC gets a hard time for only winning the league cup , it's hilarious

This isn't so much a post. More a series of typos, bizarre re-writings of recent history and misunderstanding.

I think this debate is touching rock bottom now. Parties are never going to agree.

[Aldo]

My arse, we were relegated by Butcher, nobody else but him and the other chuckle brother took us down.

BH - that made me laugh!! You defo have a way with words. ;-)

[Winston Ingram]

Just amazing the lengths some people seem to want to go to deflect blame off these jokers. Not only did these clowns relegate us, they did it in the most inept embarrassing way you could probably imagine. Just what is it some folk seem to see that makes them think these imposters can suddenly come good? :confused:

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.

[Lester B]

Maybe they are not blind and are looking at the bigger picture.

Don't get me wrong, there is an overwhelming case for sacking them and I see where you guys are coming from but I'm simply not going to join in with the campaign to oust them. If they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do and will be right behind them.

As for not making informed decisions, why would you ignore 75% of a management TEAM'S time together when making a judgement on them?
If there's one camp here thats "blind" or missing anythjng in their analysis it certainly isn't the one I'm in.

And majorhibs, you should try some of that grass as its known to chill you out and make you open-minded.

And I thought the panto season started in December.

There will be no agreement between various sides here and every one knows they are right from their corner.

[emerald green]

Maybe they are not blind and are looking at the bigger picture.

Don't get me wrong, there is an overwhelming case for sacking them and I see where you guys are coming from but I'm simply not going to join in with the campaign to oust them. If they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do and will be right behind them.

As for not making informed decisions, why would you ignore 75% of a management TEAM'S time together when making a judgement on them?
If there's one camp here thats "blind" or missing anythjng in their analysis it certainly isn't the one I'm in.

And majorhibs, you should try some of that grass as its known to chill you out and make you open-minded.

OK, can you tell me what exactly "the bigger picture" actually is? What am I not seeing? Is the club being relegated under the charge of Butcher & Malpas at least a wee bit of the "bigger picture" maybe?

Next, you say "there is an overwhelming case for sacking them", and you see where you guys are coming from, and in the very next sentence you say "if they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do". Happy with what? Getting relegated is what they can do.
I'm afraid you've lost me. Your post just doesn't make an iota of sense to me. :confused:

[jeffers]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.

:top marks

[Pete]

And I thought the panto season started in December.

There will be no agreement between various sides here and every one knows they are right from their corner.

I suppose we'll just have to wait for next season and see what new signings are made and judge the results regardless of who is in charge.

It's never boring. At least we all share that.

[Pete]

OK, can you tell me what exactly "the bigger picture" actually is? What am I not seeing? Is the club being relegated under the charge of Butcher & Malpas at least a wee bit of the "bigger picture" maybe?

Next, you say "there is an overwhelming case for sacking them", and you see where you guys are coming from, and in the very next sentence you say "if they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do". Happy with what? Getting relegated is what they can do.
I'm afraid you've lost me. Your post just doesn't make an iota of sense to me. :confused:

All the answers you seek are actually within the post. If you're still confused then I'm afraid I can't help you as I'm not willing to bang my head off a brick wall again by repeating my stance.

Sorry.

[blackpoolhibs]

BH - that made me laugh!! You defo have a way with words. ;-)

:greengrin

[BH Hibs]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.

Well put especially about point one mate. :top marks

[emerald green]

All the answers you seek are actually within the post. If you're still confused then I'm afraid I can't help you as I'm not willing to bang my head off a brick wall again by repeating my stance.

Sorry.

No they aren't, and you know it. You haven't even attempted to answer any of the questions I put to you.

I'm not going to waste any more time debating this with you. It's pointless. But you carry on anyway.:bye:

[connerg]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.
Totally agree. Surely Butcher and Malpas will have a clause in their contracts that say they walk with no compensation if we go down. If Petrie didn't put this in their contracts then that is gross misconduct by him. Another reason he should go!!!

[cleanyman]

Peter Douglas.

Sassijery.

Butcher must go.

[Pete]

]No they aren't, and you know it.[/I] You haven't even attempted to answer any of the questions I put to you.

I'm not going to waste any more time debating this with you. It's pointless. But you carry on anyway.:bye:

You're right. If you can't see them you probably are wasting your time.:aok:

[superbam]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.

Well put. It shouldn't even be up for discussion. I think the reverence in which his record at Caley is held, ignoring all his other failures, is particularly ridiculous.

[Pete]

Peter Douglas.

Sassijery.

Butcher must go.

:monkey:

[stubru59]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.


I agree, we can't afford NOT ​to sack him.

[Smartie]

There are different types of manager and different things can and should be expected of them. This should be seriously considered at the interview stage to ensure that you are getting absolutely the right man for the job.

Certain "marmite" figures - and I would say that Butcher, John Collins and the likes of Di Canio come into this category - seem to be either loved or hated by fans and players alike. If a club appoints one of these characters then they absolutely have to back them - they give them funds to bring players in who will buy into their philosophy. They will piss a lot of people off early on - fans and players alike - and the club must stand firm and back their man in the long-term knowing that the results will come.

Scrutinising Butcher's CV (and I know it's easy with hindsight) shows that he ALWAYS gets off to a slow start. When he's given the backing to see his project through, he tends to come good. When he's punted before that happens then he is always considered a failure. If we wanted a fast start then we simply shouldn't have appointed him. We should have gone for a Jimmy Calderwood figure. Would that have been better long-term though? Nah.

JC deserved better from Hibs. People pan that "McCann" at CH moment but he showed more than enough positives to be backed better at Hibs. He changed tactics before and during games, made magnificent use of subs - a skill we've never seen since as game after game has slipped away and we've seen cop-out tactical moves "striker off striker on" when we're creating nowt and that is simply not the problem. He had his weaknesses no doubt, but he was a rookie manager and made mistakes. The football under him at times was phenomenal, sometimes it was poor, but that's going to happen when you are selling good players for big bucks and replacing them with cheap rubbish. He deserved a long-term chance to bring in players who would fit his philosophy (imagine we'd got the last 8 years or so with Hammell at LB instead of him being at Motherwell) and not the "George Street" lot. We might still be talking about the odd tactical blunder but it would have been a damn site better with the fitness levels displayed under JC than the collective efforts under Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher.

I'll be fascinated to see how the Butcher situation plays out, and I could go either way on it to be honest. We have a guy in position who has a track-record of getting out of this league. He has put good teams together on a shoestring. What I've seen with my own eyes of his Motherwell and ICT teams have been competitive combative teams who play good football and finish above us. Whilst it was a bit different aesthetically to what I've enjoyed Hibs playing in the past, that short spell of decent stuff around Christmas (remember creating 20+ chances against Hearts? - Fenlon had us going about 3 weeks without creating 1 with the same players) was very watchable. There is no escaping the fact that what we have played since then has been some of the worst football I have ever seen Hibs play and has been deeply disturbing. He has clearly lost a large number of the fans, a position that can be difficult to come back from and so I wouldn't be utterly devastated if he were to go.

One thing I want more than anything is for Hibs to start doing things differently, and the main thing is to stop pinning the failings of the club on individuals and expecting that if you get rid of that individual then things will automatically get better. The problems we have had over the years have gone far further than certain individuals. More than anything, the appointment of LD is a huge step in the right direction and we need to back her fully. What she says goes IMO - if she wants Butcher to stay, magic. If not, equally magic. We need the entire club to unite behind her and whoever she chooses to be with her, through the good times and especially the bad.

[OsloHibs]

I want Butcher out. He has to go.:agree:

[Pete]

There are different types of manager and different things can and should be expected of them. This should be seriously considered at the interview stage to ensure that you are getting absolutely the right man for the job.

Certain "marmite" figures - and I would say that Butcher, John Collins and the likes of Di Canio come into this category - seem to be either loved or hated by fans and players alike. If a club appoints one of these characters then they absolutely have to back them - they give them funds to bring players in who will buy into their philosophy. They will piss a lot of people off early on - fans and players alike - and the club must stand firm and back their man in the long-term knowing that the results will come.

Scrutinising Butcher's CV (and I know it's easy with hindsight) shows that he ALWAYS gets off to a slow start. When he's given the backing to see his project through, he tends to come good. When he's punted before that happens then he is always considered a failure. If we wanted a fast start then we simply shouldn't have appointed him. We should have gone for a Jimmy Calderwood figure. Would that have been better long-term though? Nah.

JC deserved better from Hibs. People pan that "McCann" at CH moment but he showed more than enough positives to be backed better at Hibs. He changed tactics before and during games, made magnificent use of subs - a skill we've never seen since as game after game has slipped away and we've seen cop-out tactical moves "striker off striker on" when we're creating nowt and that is simply not the problem. He had his weaknesses no doubt, but he was a rookie manager and made mistakes. The football under him at times was phenomenal, sometimes it was poor, but that's going to happen when you are selling good players for big bucks and replacing them with cheap rubbish. He deserved a long-term chance to bring in players who would fit his philosophy (imagine we'd got the last 8 years or so with Hammell at LB instead of him being at Motherwell) and not the "George Street" lot. We might still be talking about the odd tactical blunder but it would have been a damn site better with the fitness levels displayed under JC than the collective efforts under Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher.

I'll be fascinated to see how the Butcher situation plays out, and I could go either way on it to be honest. We have a guy in position who has a track-record of getting out of this league. He has put good teams together on a shoestring. What I've seen with my own eyes of his Motherwell and ICT teams have been competitive combative teams who play good football and finish above us. Whilst it was a bit different aesthetically to what I've enjoyed Hibs playing in the past, that short spell of decent stuff around Christmas (remember creating 20+ chances against Hearts? - Fenlon had us going about 3 weeks without creating 1 with the same players) was very watchable. There is no escaping the fact that what we have played since then has been some of the worst football I have ever seen Hibs play and has been deeply disturbing. He has clearly lost a large number of the fans, a position that can be difficult to come back from and so I wouldn't be utterly devastated if he were to go.

One thing I want more than anything is for Hibs to start doing things differently, and the main thing is to stop pinning the failings of the club on individuals and expecting that if you get rid of that individual then things will automatically get better. The problems we have had over the years have gone far further than certain individuals. More than anything, the appointment of LD is a huge step in the right direction and we need to back her fully. What she says goes IMO - if she wants Butcher to stay, magic. If not, equally magic. We need the entire club to unite behind her and whoever she chooses to be with her, through the good times and especially the bad.

:agree: very good post.

[H18Y GW]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.

Every manager we have ever had has under achieved , what makes Butcher so special, do you really think anyone is going to take the gig , no players and in a league with full and diet Huns .


Good post I suppose but not really relevant at this time , sounds a bit like Rodders and the lip service of giving fans what they want to hear tbh

[TornadoHibby]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.



OK, can you tell me what exactly "the bigger picture" actually is? What am I not seeing? Is the club being relegated under the charge of Butcher & Malpas at least a wee bit of the "bigger picture" maybe?

Next, you say "there is an overwhelming case for sacking them", and you see where you guys are coming from, and in the very next sentence you say "if they stay then I will be happy as I know what they can do". Happy with what? Getting relegated is what they can do.
I'm afraid you've lost me. Your post just doesn't make an iota of sense to me. :confused:

Two excellent posts IMO!

:top marks

[jacomo]

There are different types of manager and different things can and should be expected of them. This should be seriously considered at the interview stage to ensure that you are getting absolutely the right man for the job.

Certain "marmite" figures - and I would say that Butcher, John Collins and the likes of Di Canio come into this category - seem to be either loved or hated by fans and players alike. If a club appoints one of these characters then they absolutely have to back them - they give them funds to bring players in who will buy into their philosophy. They will piss a lot of people off early on - fans and players alike - and the club must stand firm and back their man in the long-term knowing that the results will come.

Scrutinising Butcher's CV (and I know it's easy with hindsight) shows that he ALWAYS gets off to a slow start. When he's given the backing to see his project through, he tends to come good. When he's punted before that happens then he is always considered a failure. If we wanted a fast start then we simply shouldn't have appointed him. We should have gone for a Jimmy Calderwood figure. Would that have been better long-term though? Nah.

JC deserved better from Hibs. People pan that "McCann" at CH moment but he showed more than enough positives to be backed better at Hibs. He changed tactics before and during games, made magnificent use of subs - a skill we've never seen since as game after game has slipped away and we've seen cop-out tactical moves "striker off striker on" when we're creating nowt and that is simply not the problem. He had his weaknesses no doubt, but he was a rookie manager and made mistakes. The football under him at times was phenomenal, sometimes it was poor, but that's going to happen when you are selling good players for big bucks and replacing them with cheap rubbish. He deserved a long-term chance to bring in players who would fit his philosophy (imagine we'd got the last 8 years or so with Hammell at LB instead of him being at Motherwell) and not the "George Street" lot. We might still be talking about the odd tactical blunder but it would have been a damn site better with the fitness levels displayed under JC than the collective efforts under Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher.

I'll be fascinated to see how the Butcher situation plays out, and I could go either way on it to be honest. We have a guy in position who has a track-record of getting out of this league. He has put good teams together on a shoestring. What I've seen with my own eyes of his Motherwell and ICT teams have been competitive combative teams who play good football and finish above us. Whilst it was a bit different aesthetically to what I've enjoyed Hibs playing in the past, that short spell of decent stuff around Christmas (remember creating 20+ chances against Hearts? - Fenlon had us going about 3 weeks without creating 1 with the same players) was very watchable. There is no escaping the fact that what we have played since then has been some of the worst football I have ever seen Hibs play and has been deeply disturbing. He has clearly lost a large number of the fans, a position that can be difficult to come back from and so I wouldn't be utterly devastated if he were to go.

One thing I want more than anything is for Hibs to start doing things differently, and the main thing is to stop pinning the failings of the club on individuals and expecting that if you get rid of that individual then things will automatically get better. The problems we have had over the years have gone far further than certain individuals. More than anything, the appointment of LD is a huge step in the right direction and we need to back her fully. What she says goes IMO - if she wants Butcher to stay, magic. If not, equally magic. We need the entire club to unite behind her and whoever she chooses to be with her, through the good times and especially the bad.

This is a good post, and as I think Butcher should go it gives me food for thought.

I just regret how disruptive Butcher has been. Relegation is too high a price for us to pay as he finds his feet. But, if LD thinks she can work with him then maybe we we have to go with it.

[Pete]

Two excellent posts IMO!

:top marks

The second post. Whats "excellent" about being confused?

[majorhibs]

The second post. Whats "excellent" about being confused?

IMO its your optimism & faith in the trumpets who managed our team into a lower division against all the odds thats confusing plenty! If it wisnae for the random drugs testing I keep getting subjected to from my work, I'd ask you for a shot of thon grass you were on about earlier so I could mebbes get in a bit on your open mindedness & chilled out state of mind, but as it stands your faith in the "management team" & the brill job they did at ICT confuses me as well.

[Waxy]

It would help if we got the truth about what happened last season. Butcher could come out and tell it like it was. I think we deserve to know.

[southsider]

I want Butcher out. He has to go.:agree:
Agreed and Petrie. I heard he and his team were asked to accept a 50% wage cut. He is, with his family, in the USA thinking it over.

[emerald green]

IMO its your optimism & faith in the trumpets who managed our team into a lower division against all the odds thats confusing plenty! If it wisnae for the random drugs testing I keep getting subjected to from my work, I'd ask you for a shot of thon grass you were on about earlier so I could mebbes get in a bit on your open mindedness & chilled out state of mind, but as it stands your faith in the "management team" & the brill job they did at ICT confuses me as well.

:agree: :greengrin

[HH81]

Noticed how sky interviewed Terry and Stuart P today.

They discussed the new season with SP at Forest but Hibs were not mentioned by Terry?

[Hibby]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.


With you all the way. Good post IMO!!

:flag:

[Kato]

Collins ................... Please no!

Opinons are divided as to the League cup win. For me the kicker is that with the players we had it is the best chance we have had of winning the Scottish Cup in my time supporting Hibs ..... especially considering how bad celtic were at the time. He couldn't get us past Dunfermline with two goes at it.

Nail on head for that era. That was the best chance we've had to win the SC in the last 30 years, he lost the players big style. Was all for his fitness strategy but it should have been tapered into the the older players routine with a bit subtlety instead foisted on them as an order.

[PeterboroHibee]

Noticed how sky interviewed Terry and Stuart P today.

They discussed the new season with SP at Forest but Hibs were not mentioned by Terry?

LD is being non-committal about Butcher's future until they've had a chance to properly meet, so maybe its similar from his end.

[bingo70]

LD is being non-committal about Butcher's future until they've had a chance to properly meet, so maybe its similar from his end.

Until he's been told otherwise he should be 100% committed to us and should be speaking to the fans (through the media) to convince us he knows what he's doing and that he'll get us promoted.

Going into hiding and then hoping the media don't mention us isn't good enough. We deserve better than to be ignored.

The guys a tit imo, sooner we get rid of him the better.

[RIP Bestie]

:agree: very good post.
Is that what you were trying to say in your previous post?

[Hibiza]

Butcher a one trick pony.

[Pete]

Is that what you were trying to say in your previous post?

An element of the club is being slaughtered on this thread. If I'm being honest, I thought that we would have heard from you a lot earlier than this.

[jdships]

Nail on head for that era. That was the best chance we've had to win the SC in the last 30 years, he lost the players big style. Was all for his fitness strategy but it should have been tapered into the the older players routine with a bit subtlety instead foisted on them as an order.

:thumbsup::agree:
Collin failure in the " man management department " cost us dearly !!

[FranckSuzy]

Once or twice during yesterday's meeting with LD, I mistakenly said Tony Mowbray instead of Terry Butcher and LD laughed and said "no matter how many times you say it, Mowbray is not coming back". :tee hee:. Can't blame me for trying though :greengrin

[SMAXXA]

Once or twice during yesterday's meeting with LD, I mistakenly said Tony Mowbray instead of Terry Butcher and LD laughed and said "no matter how many times you say it, Mowbray is not coming back". :tee hee:. Can't blame me for trying though :greengrin

:faf::faf: At least she has a sense of humour eh

[Turkish Green]

:agree:

It's astonishing. There is not one reason that stands up to any low level scrutiny. The most common ones i've seen on are utter guff.


1. We can't afford to sack him. Utter pish. He's on £120k a year approx. A thousand ST's would pay off his contract and we'll likely sell them easily if he's sacked. Even then we can just carryon paying him his weekly wage which negates the need to find a lump sum. On top of that the cost of not sacking him is the guarantee we'll be spending another season in the Championship which blows that this argument completely out of the water.
2. I'll judge him when he gets his own players. More pish. A managers job in any walk of life is to get the best of their available resources. Not only did he spectacularly fail to do that, he utterly destroyed these resources. On top of that he got his 'own players' in Jan and rarely picked them.
3. He has proven he's a good manager at ICT. Bollocks. A relegation, a promotion, 2 bottom 6 finishes and 4th. Wow. The one occasion they finished 4th is decent but hardly the beacon of hope some are trying to portray it as. The 4th place finish was achieved with sides like ourselves, Hearts & Rangers being utter basket cases. Even then he still finished behind similar sized clubs like St J & Motherwell and promoted Ross County were only 1pt behind. Those clubs achievements were way more impressive. On top of that he only finished 3pts ahead of us!!!
4. He wasn't given money in January. Other than Celtic, neither was any other manager in the league. Ross County, St Mirren & Kilmarnock all signed players that had a big impact on them staying up.
5. We can't keep sacking managers. No!!! We just need to look at why we keep hiring really *****e ones. This is probably the best of the lot. If he had ever demonstrated anything that merited it, maybe. His CV and what he's done in the first 7 months only point to the clown doing even more damage.
I agree with every point. If what I heard over the weekend is correct then RP is now an irrelevance. LD as CEO will pull the strings therefore the clubs priority is to replace the inept Butcher. Nobody else is to blame for the way the season ended.





PETRIE OOT

[Smartie]

:thumbsup::agree:
Collin failure in the " man management department " cost us dearly !!

I think some managers failure in that department have cost us even more dearly even more recently.

[FranckSuzy]

:faf::faf: At least she has a sense of humour eh

Too right :greengrin

[Beefster]

This isn't so much a post. More a series of typos, bizarre re-writings of recent history and misunderstanding.

I think this debate is touching rock bottom now. Parties are never going to agree.

'Rewritings' doesn't have a hyphen.

[spike220]

:cb

[Russ]

Hopefully when it is confirmed that Terry will be staying the fans unite behind the team, both management and players. Let's not do what we are best at and self implode.

[jdships]

'Rewritings' doesn't have a hyphen.

Thought this was a football forum ?:wink::greengrin:rolleyes:
How do you know that Lester B wasn't educated in North America where the use of a hyphen in " rewritings " is still grammatically correct ?
Also the use of the hyphen in UK is looked on by "Publishing Houses" as in order/acceptable although its regular use stopped in mid 20th C
( started 1567) , although one or two dictionary's still show it .
:greengrin

[merritthibees]

Whispers starting to form on twitter that he has been sacked! But it has came from twitter so who knows! Haha

[matty_f]

Whispers starting to form on twitter that he has been sacked! But it has came from twitter so who knows! Haha

How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

[Mr White]

How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

Reduce your font size? :dunno:

[Hibee87]

Whispers starting to form on twitter that he has been sacked! But it has came from twitter so who knows! Haha

He was apparently meeting with dempster today to discuss his futur was he not?

wether folk have put 2 and 2 together and got 5 who knows, however I would have expected some in the know posters on here would have said so before twitter

[cam75]

What time is meeting planned?will we hear outcome today ?
ggtth

[E10 Rifle]

How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

I will just whisper this, but I reckon it goes something like this.

You post on Twitter what you pick up on here, then you report back on here that the rumours are on Twitter, Twitter then reports that there are rumours on MB and you continue that cycle with people getting worked up about essentially the same piece of information being recirculated!:wtf:

[bingo70]

Whispers starting to form on twitter that he has been sacked! But it has came from twitter so who knows! Haha

Twitter isn't a source, the person who tweeted is the source, the credibility of the rumour will depend on who tweeted it, not the fact they said it on Twitter.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thought this was a football forum ?:wink::greengrin:rolleyes:
How do you know that Lester B wasn't educated in North America where the use of a hyphen in " rewritings " is still grammatically correct ?
Also the use of the hyphen in UK is looked on by "Publishing Houses" as in order/acceptable although its regular use stopped in mid 20th C
( started 1567) , although one or two dictionary's still show it .
:greengrin

What do they say about apostrophising plurals? :greengrin

[matty_f]

Reduce your font size? :dunno:

Sorry.


How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

[Hank Schrader]

Sorry.


How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[HibbyRod]

What time is meeting planned?will we hear outcome today ?
ggtth

I thought the planned meeting is this Thursday.

[Mr White]

Sorry.


How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

:greengrin very good

[Peevemor]

How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

Something like this? :dunno:

[robinp]

Sorry.


How do you whisper on twitter? :dunno:

You Twitsper:
http://twitsper.cs.ucr.edu/faq.html

[matty_f]

You Twitsper:
http://twitsper.cs.ucr.edu/faq.html
No personal insults please.:greengrin

[Mr White]

No personal insults please.:greengrin

Hohoho, you're on fire today! Does the F stand for funnyman? :greengrin

[marti1875]

I thought the planned meeting is this Thursday.

She clearly only says "sometime next week" regarding meeting with Butcher. She never specifies any day whatsoever in the interview with GS. So, we have mo idea what day it will actually be.

[Winston Ingram]

Whispers starting to form on twitter that he has been sacked! But it has came from twitter so who knows! Haha

That's like blaming the telephone for what's been said on a phone call:confused:

[easty]

That's like blaming the telephone for what's been said on a phone call:confused:

:agree: I once fell out with my TV because Jeremy Clarkson was on it.

[Ozyhibby]

If it's not today then questions need to be asked. We need things sorted quick sharp in order to prepare for the new season. Butcher obviously has a bit of time on his hands if he is doing radio work.
Hibs need to get their act together.

[RIP Bestie]

An element of the club is being slaughtered on this thread. If I'm being honest, I thought that we would have heard from you a lot earlier than this.
You are very selective on what you read from me.

[robinp]

No personal insults please.:greengrin

Duly noted. :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

:agree: I once fell out with my TV because Jeremy Clarkson was on it.

:faf: Often been tempted to punch a hole in the telly when he is on, in the vague hope that he might just feel the impact. Prize erse. Probably next in line for the Hibs job :greengrin

[AlbertK86]

Hopefully meeting is today.

His holiday is clearly over unless he was down South.

He was on a kids coaching course in England with Le Saux over the weekend

[bingo70]

If it's not today then questions need to be asked. We need things sorted quick sharp in order to prepare for the new season. Butcher obviously has a bit of time on his hands if he is doing radio work.
Hibs need to get their act together.

Completely agree.

[Crazyhorse]

That's like blaming the telephone for what's been said on a phone call:confused:

You mean like blaming the conduit....

[Steven_Hibs]

Just been told that he's away

[JimBHibees]

Just been told that he's away

Good source?

[SlickShoes]

Just been told that he's away

sauce?

[dangermouse]

Just been told that he's away

Away where? The shops, Brazil, the seaside? :wink:

[DarrenSQH]

Hibs retro posted on facebook he is gone so hes probably here to stay. lol

[greenpaper55]

North Berwick ?.

[Hibiza]

hopefully bye butch . you TOTALLY underperformed. One trick pony. Day after the game. "Think of a letter , and describe your feelings". ... pass the sick bag. :flag:

[Cropley10]

Just been told that he's away

Did you get a text?

[jimmyboco1875]

Im no sure this is true, Cos if so who's decision was it to bin so many players?

[TheFamous1875]

Im no sure this is true, Cos if so who's decision was it to bin so many players?

Dempster said it was Butcher's in her interview with Grant Stott.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[erskine-hibby]

Bang goes a huge slice of our budget IF it's true.

[jimmyboco1875]

Dempster said it was Butcher's in her interview with Grant Stott.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yeah so they surely would not have let him make that decision

[--------]

Thought this was a football forum?:wink::greengrin:rolleyes:
How do you know that Lester B wasn't educated in North America where the use of a hyphen in "rewritings" is still grammatically correct?
Also the use of the hyphen in the UK is looked on by "Publishing Houses" as in order/acceptable although its regular use stopped in mid 20th C (started 1567),although one or two dictionaries still show it .
:greengrin


Fixed that for you. :greengrin

Cambridge, Collins, Oxford, Oxford Advanced and Webster-Merriam Dictionaries of American English all disallow the hyphenation of 'rewriting'. The middle of the twentieth century is a very long time ago.

And 're-writing' isn't listed in the Oxford English Dictionary, by which I mean the BIG one. So it's wrong.

:wink:


Oh - I nearly forgot. My choice, were I to be granted one, would be for the club to dispense with the services of Messrs Butcher, Malpas and Marsella as quickly as possible.

[TheFamous1875]

Yeah so they surely would not have let him make that decision

You'd assume so, but Dempster also said she had no authority at the time as she was still in her post at Motherwell. We all know how badly this club has been run for the last few years, so it wouldn't surprise me if this did end up being the case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JDHibs]

From what ive heard, from someone in the know, Butcher out with McCall coming in as he cant take the well any further.

[Steven_Hibs]

Good source?

The same as the one who told me he would be away on Friday. Look how that turned out. I believe he's definitely going to be emptied. I'm sorry if anyone is annoyed by these rumours. All I'm doing is posting what I've been hearing!

[greenpaper55]

From what ive heard, from someone in the know, Butcher out with McCall coming in as he cant take the well any further.

I't's difficult to take a well any distance at all but I heard you can take a horse to water but a pencil must be lead !

[SlickShoes]

From what ive heard, from someone in the know, Butcher out with McCall coming in as he cant take the well any further.

lol

[jimmyboco1875]

You'd assume so, but Dempster also said she had no authority at the time as she was still in her post at Motherwell. We all know how badly this club has been run for the last few years, so it wouldn't surprise me if this did end up being the case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Yeah very true mate, surely no big decisions like our best footballer leaving though, hopefully find out soon though, he stays I will back him 100% and hoping he will sign a team like he had at inverness and play good football and if he's away then fingers crossed the McCall rumour is true.

[TheFamous1875]

Yeah very true mate, surely no big decisions like our best footballer leaving though, hopefully find out soon though, he stays I will back him 100% and hoping he will sign a team like he had at inverness and play good football and if he's away then fingers crossed the McCall rumour is true.

Word for word exactly how I feel about this too mate! :topmarks:


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