World Cup Qatar 2022 - Possible venue re-vote

[Hibbyradge]

I don't suppose anyone will be surprised by the news that there are serious allegations of corruption surrounding the decision to host the WC in a furnace, but here's the story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27654587

Mon the Sunday Times.

[Diclonius]

Good. Complete farce to hold it there in the first place.

[Alex Trager]

I believe that not only are the stadiums not in place, cities in which they stadiums
Are to be built are not in place. I find that astonishing tbh.
Along with the fact they want to get it moved to winter and play it at night

[3pm]

England will get it IMO.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

England will get it IMO.

England didn't bid for 2022 ultimately and it will have been in Europe in 2018 so it's unlikely IMO. Could see England or Germany getting it, however, only if it had to be changed at very late notice as the stadia are already largely in place.

[s.a.m]

Perhaps it could be a multi-country one, based over a geographical zone? Have UEFA not got one of these planned already?

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Perhaps it could be a multi-country one, based over a geographical zone? Have UEFA not got one of these planned already?

But only in those countries that aren't tainted by FIFA corruption scandals, which leaves........ Andorra! :-)

[s.a.m]

But only in those countries that aren't tainted by FIFA corruption scandals, which leaves........ Andorra! :-)

Tax haven. :wink:

[Michael]

If it doesn't get moved from Qatar we should have our own World Cup with people, cities and stadiums.

[magpie1892]

I was living and working in Qatar when the decision was made and came on here to say how the decision was 100% driven by bribery and would be an utter disaster anyhow.

It was ****ing exhausting trying to fight off the vast majority of fellow posters who were insistent how wonderful it would be to have it in Qatar.

Wish I could find the thread....

[magpie1892]

Oh, found the thread. There's some absolute belters on there. My favourite:

"Theres never been a world cup in Eastern Europe or Russia, and theres never been one in the Middle East. The decision makes perfect sense to me."

You know who you are...

[hibbybrian]

I was living and working in Qatar when the decision was made and came on here to say how the decision was 100% driven by bribery and would be an utter disaster anyhow.

It was ****ing exhausting trying to fight off the vast majority of fellow posters who were insistent how wonderful it would be to have it in Qatar.

I have vague memories of endless regular debates about this (and the demise of the Yams) in the Library :wink:

[ScottB]

Given the disgusting use of armies of virtual slave labour alone is reason enough to take it off them then good.

I get the desire to be seen to be sharing the tournament around the world, but Brazil can't afford it, Russia is a basket case and Qatar is an ethical nightmare. America and Australia would have been perfect hosts and not European, plus capable of undertaking and paying for it without bribes or working people to death.

[EdinMike]

Didn't Russia bribe them just a little less... I mean were second favourites ?! :confused: :wink:

I can't remember who was even in contention, gonna have to have a looksy

Edit: just had a look, Has to be Oz

[magpie1892]

I have vague memories of endless regular debates about this (and the demise of the Yams) in the Library :wink:

Me too. Another pint of Heineken, Brian? That's seven so just one more.

[magpie1892]

Given the disgusting use of armies of virtual slave labour alone is reason enough to take it off them then good.

I get the desire to be seen to be sharing the tournament around the world, but Brazil can't afford it, Russia is a basket case and Qatar is an ethical nightmare. America and Australia would have been perfect hosts and not European, plus capable of undertaking and paying for it without bribes or working people to death.

Qatar and Russia were, of the nine submitted bids for 2018 & 2022, ranked the two worst by FIFA themselves, Qatar bottom by some distance. As soon as the card came out of the envelope you knew there was only one way it could have happened.

[ekhibee]

Qatar and Russia were, of the nine submitted bids for 2018 & 2022, ranked the two worst by FIFA themselves, Qatar bottom by some distance. As soon as the card came out of the envelope you knew there was only one way it could have happened.

That's scary, one's as corrupt as the other. Like a previous poster, England or Germany would be fine for me, even better Spain?

[Keith_M]

Of course there should be. The whole thing was a farce and everybody knew people must have accepted bungs. I also think the Russian bid for 2018 should be investigated, in light of the allegations of the Russian Mafia threatening the decision makers with their lives.

FWIW, I was completely behind England's complaint at the time and would fully support them being awarded the World Cup instead.

[blackpoolhibs]

I was living and working in Qatar when the decision was made and came on here to say how the decision was 100% driven by bribery and would be an utter disaster anyhow.

It was ****ing exhausting trying to fight off the vast majority of fellow posters who were insistent how wonderful it would be to have it in Qatar.

Wish I could find the thread....

I remember your posts, at the time you said it was a ridiculous decision, and you doubted it would ever take place there.

Looks like you could be spot on. :top marks

[Keith_M]

I was living and working in Qatar when the decision was made and came on here to say how the decision was 100% driven by bribery and would be an utter disaster anyhow.

It was ****ing exhausting trying to fight off the vast majority of fellow posters who were insistent how wonderful it would be to have it in Qatar.

Wish I could find the thread....


FWIW, I was on your side at the time and my opinion has been further entrenched by the stories coming out of Qatar since.

[Sylar]

Corruption and 1000+ deaths in the development of infrastructure to this point...

The entire thing is abhorrent.

[magpie1892]

Corruption and 1000+ deaths in the development of infrastructure to this point...

The entire thing is abhorrent.

...and they've not even broken ground on a single stadium yet. Not sure how many they're building. They promised 12 stadiums (10 or 11 new, and a couple of tart-ups) but now think that eight will suffice, so that should reduce deaths by a third.

Progress!

[magpie1892]

I remember your posts, at the time you said it was a ridiculous decision, and you doubted it would ever take place there.

Looks like you could be spot on. :top marks


FWIW, I was on your side at the time and my opinion has been further entrenched by the stories coming out of Qatar since.

I spent about three hours in a firefight with multiple opponents on here (none of whom had been to Qatar) and it was exhausting, so I went for a pint with HibbyBrian instead.

Blackpoolhibs - Sadly, I think that the 2022 World Cup will be played in Qatar and will be played in winter (Qatar bid for a summer competition, but that's only a technicality). I pray for a re-vote, but with the amount of bribes paid by Qatar at all levels to FIFA staff and their affiliates, as soon as they took the money, the die was cast. I mean, $1.6 million paid into the Post Office book of the then 10-year-old daughter of S.American EXCO member Ricardo Teixera..? And as soon as you give even a tenner to a 'man' like Jack Warner, that's your credibility gone.

The point being that if FIFA try and take the tourney off Qatar, they would not only sue (and win) but they'd name every single person who took a bribe and that list is so long it could bring FIFA down. Obviously, there's a lot of people that would like to see that happen, and my God have they ever got it coming, but they won't condone something so dangerous to the organisation.

Instead, everyone else has to live with this outrageous decision - and thousands of Nepalis/Indians/Bangladeshis get to die by it.

I was right first time back in 2010, I hope to God I'm wrong this time and there will actually be a re-vote.

[IWasThere2016]

Bought the Sunday Times - will read it later. Seems a disaster in the making...

[Sir David Gray]

It was an absolute shambles from the start.

Apart from anything else, there was never any danger that an outdoor sporting event was going to take place in summer in a country that has summer temperatures which regularly exceed 110 degrees fahrenheit.

That sort of heat poses an extreme risk to human life and trying to play a sport such as football in that sort of environment was just a complete non-starter, even although FIFA said at the time that they would be able to overcome those concerns.

Obviously there's other factors coming into play now but the climate alone should have been enough to dismiss Qatar as a viable option for host nation from the very start of the bidding process.

[magpie1892]

Bought the Sunday Times - will read it later. Seems a disaster in the making...

They've got so much info, they're going to be running this story for the next three Sundays as well.

[magpie1892]

the climate alone should have been enough to dismiss Qatar as a viable option for host nation from the very start of the bidding process.

It was (albeit long after the bidding stage). By FIFA's own inspection team. The report is online, but, overall, Qatar was described as 'high risk' - the only bid that came with that warning.

FIFA's EXCO chose to 'ignore' (Blatter's word) this advice and reject ****holes like the US, Japan, Korea and single-vote Australia to give the tourney to 50C+ Qatar. A country with an indigenous population of about 250,000.

[Diclonius]

England and Australia would have been the correct host countries.

[Billy Whizz]

England and Australia would have been the correct host countries.

Jointly?

[ekhibee]

Of course there should be. The whole thing was a farce and everybody knew people must have accepted bungs. I also think the Russian bid for 2018 should be investigated, in light of the allegations of the Russian Mafia threatening the decision makers with their lives.

FWIW, I was completely behind England's complaint at the time and would fully support them being awarded the World Cup instead.

Totally agree. Unfortunately FIFA and the Russian Government are well matched in terms of corruption, so doubt if there'll be any change there.

[EdinMike]

Jointly?

:greengrin

[hfc rd]

USA or Australia.

[Aaron]

I am sure USA were runners up in the bidding process so surely it should go there if Qatar fails?

[Nomeancity]

Maybe I'm a bit simple bur I never thought for a minute that there was anything dodgy about a World Cup being held in Qatar. Scottish cup finals at parkhead?

[IberianHibernian]

Every time questions are asked by press ( normally English press ) about choice of World Cup organisers reports start about how England could step in and organise it but in voting for 2018 England got about 2 votes ( one from an Englishman I think ) leaving them well behind Russia , Spain / Portugal and Belgium / Netherlands bids .

[magpie1892]

Every time questions are asked by press ( normally English press ) about choice of World Cup organisers reports start about how England could step in and organise it but in voting for 2018 England got about 2 votes ( one from an Englishman I think ) leaving them well behind Russia , Spain / Portugal and Belgium / Netherlands bids .

We're talking about Qatar 2022. Try and keep up.

[IberianHibernian]

We're talking about Qatar 2022. Try and keep up.Fully aware of that . But it`s English press who always hint that England is waiting in the wings to organise any WC including 2018 or 2022 if necessary . Worth remembering that England was also accused of giving dodgy gifts to FIFA officials before failed campaigns to host 2006 and other WCs - not on same scale as accusations about 2022 but still clear and not denied by English FA either .

[hibsbollah]

Absolutely inevitable when staging a major tournament has become such a circus. Same scenario with Olympic bidding, I'm sure every award has a whiff of undercover payments about it.

I'd be in favour of the next successful host nation promising NOT to build any new stadia, NOT to spend lots of money on new 'infrastructure' and in general to make it a more sustainable event. Did Russia's decision to break expenditure records on hosting the last winter Olympics result in a 'better' tournament than, say, London's relatively modest (in comparison with Beijing in 2008) Summer games? No.

[hibsbollah]

Oh, found the thread. There's some absolute belters on there. My favourite:

"Theres never been a world cup in Eastern Europe or Russia, and theres never been one in the Middle East. The decision makes perfect sense to me."

You know who you are...

That could well have been me.

I still like the idea of the 'World' cup being held in all continents as befits the global game instead of the same usual suspects, which was my point, but I accept that events have now shown Qatar wasn't a good choice. Corruption is rife though.

[magpie1892]

That could well have been me.

I still like the idea of the 'World' cup being held in all continents as befits the global game instead of the same usual suspects, which was my point, but I accept that events have now shown Qatar wasn't a good choice. Corruption is rife though.

It was you. As I said in 2010, Qatar was not the right choice. Sitting in my flat in Doha - following a summer where I had had the air conditioning on 24/7 for three months solid - I knew Qatar never could be the right choice. It's not just that the country is completely unsuitable for such an event, it's also the fact that every expat in Qatar instantly knew how they got it - bribes and corruption, and finally it's all coming out.

Your point about the 'usual suspects' as hosts is fair enough. This is why it should have been Australia. I understand Australia are to re-submit their bid to FIFA in Zurich and are considering taking a camera crew with them to film them slamming it on the reception desk at FIFA HQ. That'd be worth seeing.

A large number of people embarrassed themselves on here at the time of the bid 'win' but then again, we've all done it (myself more than once). At least you admit you got it wrong.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

The english fa slithering around like snakes trying to get the prize here I think, the bid for them with bokeum and the gormless tit was hilarious, you could almost hear them saying "Qatar? but we're here how could they do this!"

Any port in a storm to get out of qualifying of course, please FIFA don't give it to "them"

:aok:

[magpie1892]

The english fa slithering around like snakes trying to get the prize here I think, the bid for them with bokeum and the gormless tit was hilarious, you could almost hear them saying "Qatar? but we're here how could they do this!"

Any port in a storm to get out of qualifying of course, please FIFA don't give it to "them"

:aok:

Eh?

[Steve-O]

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/australia-world-cup-bid.jpg

:aok:

[magpie1892]

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/australia-world-cup-bid.jpg

:aok:

Totally agree, as stated above.

[brog]

Theres a lot of hypocrisy here & the FA are not exactly shining lights. Firstly they backstabbed Germany by bidding for 2006, there was an agreement that Germany supported Engerlund for Euro 96 in exchange for English support for Germany in 06. Then in the 2018 bid, England handed out mulberry hanbags, worth about 250 each to the wives of the FIFA delegates, a bribe by any other name.

[Baader]

Qatar has less than half the population of Ireland and did not have one stadium in place during its bid. Does anyone ever think Ireland would possibly host a World Cup in future? No because that's absurd. It was obvious from the beginning the only way Qatar managed to secure the vote was by throwing a load of money at a crooked FIFA. It utterly stinks

[magpie1892]

Theres a lot of hypocrisy here & the FA are not exactly shining lights. Firstly they backstabbed Germany by bidding for 2006, there was an agreement that Germany supported Engerlund for Euro 96 in exchange for English support for Germany in 06. Then in the 2018 bid, England handed out mulberry hanbags, worth about 250 each to the wives of the FIFA delegates, a bribe by any other name.

The media worldwide is reporting that Qatar paid millions in bribes to secure the tournament and it's now an accepted fact they bought the World Cup. I fail to see how that's hypocritical. People seem to forget that England did not bid for 2022 and the FA have not said a peep about 2018, even though that bid is also under scrutiny by Garcia.

The EXCO weren't interested in a few handbags - they wanted, and got, millions in bribes for their votes. Interestingly, they were paid in US dollars so the US justice department (who are already involved) might want to have a look at what is now a federal offence involving its currency. I think that's a little more significant than a comparatively low-value GIFT (the handbags) which was RECORDED in England's total bid spend...

Try again.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Eh?

Thought I'd made it clear but hey ho..

What I'm saying is the english want this in 2022, they sent golden balls and prince numpty to try and raise the bar to get it awarded to them, they didn't, and please don't give them it either.

OK?

[marinello59]

The english fa slithering around like snakes trying to get the prize here I think, the bid for them with bokeum and the gormless tit was hilarious, you could almost hear them saying "Qatar? but we're here how could they do this!"

Any port in a storm to get out of qualifying of course, please FIFA don't give it to "them"

:aok:

It would be brilliant to have the World Cup in England, Especially if Scotland qualified. It would only be a short hop south to soak up the atmosphere and take in a game or two. What's not to like? :confused:

[Haymaker]

It would be brilliant to have the World Cup in England, Especially if Scotland qualified. It would only be a short hop south to soak up the atmosphere and take in a game or two. What's not to like? :confused:

Would be fantastic to have it in England. :agree:

[Keith_M]

The english fa slithering around like snakes trying to get the prize here I think, the bid for them with bokeum and the gormless tit was hilarious, you could almost hear them saying "Qatar? but we're here how could they do this!"

Any port in a storm to get out of qualifying of course, please FIFA don't give it to "them"

:aok:


This appears to be a case of corruption on an extraordinary level and something needs to be done about it.

Also, I think it would be fitting if England were awarded the World Cup instead of Qatar, but I can't see FIFA allowing it, for the many reasons already given.

FWIW, I totally agree about the gifts. I don't believe for a minute that it's right to give ANY gifts to the delegates, directly or indirectly. However, it doesn't change what Qatar has done.

[ekhibee]

Just out of curiosity, if England did get it, what stadium's would they use apart from Wembley, Old Trafford and the Etihaad, probably the Emirates, what others? I would hope they wouldn't use Stamford Bridge, it's a **** stadium.

[Keith_M]

Just out of curiosity, if England did get it, what stadium's would they use apart from Wembley, Old Trafford and the Etihaad, probably the Emirates, what others? I would hope they wouldn't use Stamford Bridge, it's a **** stadium.


Thee are currently 11 Football Stadia in England with capacities of 40k or over (if you count the Olympic Stadium).

If they were awarded the World Cup, I think it would provide the impetus for a number of new or updgraded Stadia, e.g. Anfield/Stanley Park.

[MelbourneHibby]

On a European Holiday (live in Melbourne now) stopped in Doha en route. In fairness Qatar Airways excellent, however Doha just Sand, Skycrapers, heat, unfinished construction projects, dirty streets, 500k migrant slaves, very very poor, very very rich, 16 pound bottles of beer from only the top top hotels, single women not allowed to stay with boyfriend in same room, no stadiums, no infrastructure, no original culture on show. I'm biased now but Australia has everything in place.

[Baader]

Thought I'd made it clear but hey ho..

What I'm saying is the english want this in 2022, they sent golden balls and prince numpty to try and raise the bar to get it awarded to them, they didn't, and please don't give them it either.

OK?

England didn't bid for 2022. They lost out to Russia in the bid for 2018 - probably more corruption involved as well.

What's so bad about England getting a world cup? Gives people here a fantastic chance of seeing an actual match...

[Baader]

Just out of curiosity, if England did get it, what stadium's would they use apart from Wembley, Old Trafford and the Etihaad, probably the Emirates, what others? I would hope they wouldn't use Stamford Bridge, it's a **** stadium.

Newcastle or Sunderland would be one venue.

[magpie1892]

Thought I'd made it clear but hey ho..

What I'm saying is the english want this in 2022, they sent golden balls and prince numpty to try and raise the bar to get it awarded to them, they didn't, and please don't give them it either.

OK?

Ah, right.

No, England are not pitching for 2022. You're aware of the 'rotational' method, yes?

England will probably bid again in 2030 (it'll be China in 2026), once Blatter is long dead and people have stopped spitting on his grave (which may take a while). Assuming that FIFA survives in its current form, of course.

[magpie1892]

Newcastle or Sunderland would be one venue.

Newcastle would get the nod on that one.

[Baader]

Ah, right.

No, England are not pitching for 2022. You're aware of the 'rotational' method, yes?

England will probably bid again in 2030 (it'll be China in 2026), once Blatter is long dead and people have stopped spitting on his grave (which may take a while). Assuming that FIFA survives in its current form, of course.

If you mean FIFAs continental rotation policy, that ends after the current World Cup. The way it works now is that a confederation cannot bid if it has held one of the previous two World Cups. Currently that would mean China can't host 2026 as you state. Likely it'll be in the Americas.

A disbanded FIFA would be good for football. Its a disgusting organisation

[Keith_M]

Newcastle or Sunderland would be one venue.


Newcastle would get the nod on that one.


I think it would go to Sunderland.

They already have plans in place to upgrade the Stadium to 63k capacity but couldn't previously justify the cost without a prolonged spell in the EPL. However, the World Cup would be a very good reason and might also provide at least part of the money required.

As you know, SJP is restricted for any further building because of the location.

[magpie1892]

I think it would go to Sunderland.

They already have plans in place to upgrade the Stadium to 63k capacity but couldn't previously justify the cost without a prolonged spell in the EPL. However, the World Cup would be a very good reason and might also provide at least part of the money required.

As you know, SJP is restricted for any further building because of the location.

It's moot anyway, as I doubt England will see the World Cup again as long as FIFA exists, but Newcastle would get the nod because of its superior road, rail and air links. Road: A1M cuts through the city near Manors, about 600yds from SJP. Rail: five minutes walk up the hill. Air: international airport directly connected by Metro to station 50 yards from Gallowgate turnstiles.

Then you have to factor in accommodation. There's one hotel (Marriot) in Sunderland city centre. Newcastle has about 10 decent hotels (incl. Malmaison, Copthorne, Hilton) within a three-mile radius of SJP and half-a-dozen at/near the airport. I know FIFA don't give a **** about the fans (hence Qatar 2022) but Newcastle's nightlife and general attractions are light years ahead of Sunderland.

Sunderland wouldn't get it even if they did have 63k capacity. That's not me being partisan, that's just looking at the facts.

Oh, and SJP's capacity could be increased by putting an extra tier on the Gallowgate - another 8,000 seats or so to bring us to just over 60,000. It's the East Stand they can't do anything about. Google it if you wish.

It's a no-contest my man...

[Keith_M]

It's moot anyway, as I doubt England will see the World Cup again as long as FIFA exists, but Newcastle would get the nod because of its superior road, rail and air links. Road: A1M cuts through the city near Manors, about 600yds from SJP. Rail: five minutes walk up the hill. Air: international airport directly connected by Metro to station 50 yards from Gallowgate turnstiles.

Then you have to factor in accommodation. There's one hotel (Marriot) in Sunderland city centre. Newcastle has about 10 decent hotels (incl. Malmaison, Copthorne, Hilton) within a three-mile radius of SJP and half-a-dozen at/near the airport. I know FIFA don't give a **** about the fans (hence Qatar 2022) but Newcastle's nightlife and general attractions are light years ahead of Sunderland.

Sunderland wouldn't get it even if they did have 63k capacity. That's not me being partisan, that's just looking at the facts.

Oh, and SJP's capacity could be increased by putting an extra tier on the Gallowgate - another 8,000 seats or so to bring us to just over 60,000. It's the East Stand they can't do anything about. Google it if you wish.

It's a no-contest my man...


I thought there was an issue with the Gallowgate as well, something to do with the Metro?

:dunno:



Oh and don't gimme your p*sh about not being partisan :wink:

[magpie1892]

If you mean FIFAs continental rotation policy, that ends after the current World Cup. The way it works now is that a confederation cannot bid if it has held one of the previous two World Cups. Currently that would mean China can't host 2026 as you state. Likely it'll be in the Americas.

A disbanded FIFA would be good for football. Its a disgusting organisation

I didn't know they'd changed it - thanks for correcting me. I was sure FIFA were desperate for China 2026? I guess because of the huge bribes they could have garnered. I guess it depends what happens with 2022... Kier Radnege on the AIPS site today saying that they couldn't take it away from Qatar as it would cause 'fury in the Arab world'. Fury at what? Getting caught bribing your way to the hosting rights? Besides, I'd dispute that many others than the 250,000 Qataris would be bothered if they got the tourney stripped. The rulers of Saudi and UAE would piss themselves laughing. The GCC are a lot less cuddly among themselves than people seem to think.

Agree 100% with your succinct appraisal of FIFA.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

I think it would go to Sunderland.

They already have plans in place to upgrade the Stadium to 63k capacity but couldn't previously justify the cost without a prolonged spell in the EPL. However, the World Cup would be a very good reason and might also provide at least part of the money required.

As you know, SJP is restricted for any further building because of the location.

I suppose awarding the World Cup to Sunderland's no crazier than awarding it to Qatar! :wink::greengrin

[magpie1892]

I thought there was an issue with the Gallowgate as well, something to do with the Metro?

:dunno:



Oh and don't gimme your p*sh about not being partisan :wink:

Apparently, it's doable to build the foundations for the extra tier past the line of the tunnels - Villa have done something similar with a road running under one of their stands? Thing is, NUFC have freehold on the land behind the Gallowgate but Ashley will sell it (he's looking for buyers now) as he continues to rape the club.

Even if I were being partisan, I hope I've demonstrated why SJP would get the nod over SoL... :wink: