Infrastructure millstone

[greenpaper55]

We are always reminded by the board that we have in place a great infrastructure and i'me sure the thought of relegation was never even thought of when we spent the money. Now the unbelievable has happened our outgoings on EM and the new stand will be a heavy burden on the finances and with no guarantee that we will be promoted first go this will be a major factor in how much we have to spend on a new squad. We will be the equivalent of the ragged arsed bairn thanks to us being relegated and i don't think the repercussions of this has been fully realised.

[madhatter]

We are always reminded by the board that we have in place a great infrastructure and i'me sure the thought of relegation was never even thought of when we spent the money. Now the unbelievable has happened our outgoings on EM and the new stand will be a heavy burden on the finances and with no guarantee that we will be promoted first go this will be a major factor in how much we have to spend on a new squad. We will be the equivalent of the ragged arsed bairn thanks to us being relegated and i don't think the repercussions of this has been fully realised.

The repercussions of this have been realised. We're ****ed. We're royally ****ed if Petrie stays though.

Incidentally, in case any Petrie protectors are about: an individual deciding not to spend much cash on the club s/he supports because of one, now, vastly unlikable individual, is not boycotting. It is making an informed decision to avoid more days, months, years, decades of pain likely to be resultant from this man, and his boards', horrendous management. Does nobody outside the fans realise how many fans Petrie's resignation would entice back? The costs of running these facilities can be quite easily cut back/made up for should they need to. Close one stand at ER if necessary, blah blah blah.

The biggest question is: are the club adjusting to life in the championship (making their bed) or are they preparing to take it by storm (get out as soon as possible). My money is sadly the first, and I can't help but feel they are attempting to play the "divide" and "conquer" and adjust expectations game again.

Cutting costs can be easy - with fans. Shame no fans feel great being associated with the club and this is a prolonged feeling spanning many many a year.

Run into the ground. Absolutely. One way of recovery and it is being overlooked by the club again. Sinister is the word I use. Stinks is another.

Edit: Failure to spend will be blamed on fans. Failure to challenge will be blamed on fans. "We're so starving" will be played at the games next season. Petrie's rendition.

[JJP]

I don't know the figures involved but recently I have wondered if the costs of our infrastructure have negated any financial advantages we may have had over the smaller teams in that league we used to play in.

[Peevemor]

I don't know the figures involved but recently I have wondered if the costs of our infrastructure have negated any financial advantages we may have had over the smaller teams in that league we used to play in.

We spend more on wages than everyone except the uglies, yams and on sometimes Aberdeen.

[Stax]

Infrastructure is one of the few things we have to worry about IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

Infrastructure is one of the few things we have to worry about IMO.

Agreed.

In that respect, LD is going into a better situation than the new Hearts regime.

[Saorsa]

Infrastructure is one of the few things we have to worry about IMO.apart from the bit it will cost us a huge % of what we make tae actually keep it up? and we ken what will suffer for it. well run club? :faf:

[BVB Hibs]

I'm sorry, but the money spent on infrastructure is one of the few things that the board has done well over the past number of years. We've a lovely new stadium and state of the art training facilities in East Mains. The issue is that we've not at any point managed to back that up with a decent playing squad. That's not really money issues either, that's the board dilly dallying over players and managers bringing in mediocre, 4th choice journey men.

Everything at Hibs is in place to succeed and become by a distance the 3rd biggest club in Scotland. We need to stop putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. The infrastructure is not contributing to us being an awful footballing side. The costs of maintaining the east as opposed to maintaining a slightly smaller stand are negligible, and east mains has contributed to us having some brilliant youth squads. Bad players won't miraculously turn brilliant with good facilities though.

I'll tell you one thing. With the expenditure we've had on infrastructure, we're in a much better position to make the leap to a successful side than anybody else in Scotland bar the gruesome twosome. I'd much rather be spending more money on upkeep than to have a rotting ground like hearts, that they're going to have to replace in the near future when they won't have the kind of finances available that we did when we built the east and east mains. Our infrastructure was sound planning, surprisingly.

[Saorsa]

I'm sorry, but the money spent on infrastructure is one of the few things that the board has done well over the past number of years. We've a lovely new stadium and state of the art training facilities in East Mains. The issue is that we've not at any point managed to back that up with a decent playing squad. That's not really money issues either, that's the board dilly dallying over players and managers bringing in mediocre, 4th choice journey men.

Everything at Hibs is in place to succeed and become by a distance the 3rd biggest club in Scotland. We need to stop putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. The infrastructure is not contributing to us being an awful footballing side. The costs of maintaining the east as opposed to maintaining a slightly smaller stand are negligible, and east mains has contributed to us having some brilliant youth squads. Bad players won't miraculously turn brilliant with good facilities though.

I'll tell you one thing. With the expenditure we've had on infrastructure, we're in a much better position to make the leap to a successful side than anybody else in Scotland bar the gruesome twosome. I'd much rather be spending more money on upkeep than to have a rotting ground like hearts, that they're going to have to replace in the near future when they won't have the kind of finances available that we did when we built the east and east mains. Our infrastructure was sound planning, surprisingly.Shame the reason we exist for has been destroyed in the process, 7000 people and counting down in a 20,000 seater stadium, what a plan. Lets see how long they can keep those costs up on those crowds. Genius disnae even come close tae describing what they have achieved. :agree:

[BVB Hibs]

Shame the reason we exist for has been destroyed in the process, 7000 people in a 20,000 seater stadium, what a plan. Lets see how long they can keep those costs up on those crowds. Genius disnae even come close tae describing what they have achieved. :agree:

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

[Saorsa]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.well i'm ****in' blaming him right :aok:

[Aldo]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us. Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money. I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

RP is the man who hired the individuals to manage the team.......RP is the man who has allowed each of these managers (so called) to bring in dozens of players every season.......RP is the man who after 18 months or so sacks the person he has hired after poor results...... Simple as that.

In March 2007 after the CIS cup win instead of building on this we have gone from disaster to disaster.....

There is one common denominator in all this and it's RP.

If your happy with RP then so be it but as far as I am concerned he has ripped the heart and soul out of this club and it will continue as long as he's about!!!

[Emerald]

RP is the man who hired the individuals to manage the team.......RP is the man who has allowed each of these managers (so called) to bring in dozens of players every season.......RP is the man who after 18 months or so sacks the person he has hired after poor results...... Simple as that.

In March 2007 after the CIS cup win instead of building on this we have gone from disaster to disaster.....

There is one common denominator in all this and it's RP.

If your happy with RP then so be it but as far as I am concerned he has ripped the heart and soul out of this club and it will continue as long as he's about!!!
Is giving RP the sack due to failure not up to his employer? If RP is no good at employing the right people then who employs him. That is where the buck stops!

[Aldo]

Is giving RP the sack due to failure not up to his employer? If RP is no good at employing the right people then who employs him. That is where the buck stops!

Both should go. We lack ambition and drive. It would appear that they both have neither!

[Jack]

Despite dire football Hibs supporters have overfilled our end of the stadium and we've filled our end besides these occasions.

The Hibs support is desperate for a good successful team and I have no doubt we would run close to capacity if that was to happen.

After that the finances would look after themselves even, I suspect, in the championship.

Accountants who can't get their head around the football playing aspect of a football club; who lack the necessary vision; directed by an owner who knows nothing about football means we have no effective strategy for the business.

This has left us rudderless in the doldrums ... with a small whole in the boat :-(

[Crossgates Hibs]

I'm sorry, but the money spent on infrastructure is one of the few things that the board has done well over the past number of years. We've a lovely new stadium and state of the art training facilities in East Mains. The issue is that we've not at any point managed to back that up with a decent playing squad. That's not really money issues either, that's the board dilly dallying over players and managers bringing in mediocre, 4th choice journey men.

Everything at Hibs is in place to succeed and become by a distance the 3rd biggest club in Scotland. We need to stop putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. The infrastructure is not contributing to us being an awful footballing side. The costs of maintaining the east as opposed to maintaining a slightly smaller stand are negligible, and east mains has contributed to us having some brilliant youth squads. Bad players won't miraculously turn brilliant with good facilities though.

I'll tell you one thing. With the expenditure we've had on infrastructure, we're in a much better position to make the leap to a successful side than anybody else in Scotland bar the gruesome twosome. I'd much rather be spending more money on upkeep than to have a rotting ground like hearts, that they're going to have to replace in the near future when they won't have the kind of finances available that we did when we built the east and east mains. Our infrastructure was sound planning, surprisingly.


well said to be bitching about infrastructure is mental. I'm sure the upkeep of three of our stands is still cheaper than the upkeep of that one ****hole at the PBS.

[BVB Hibs]

RP is the man who hired the individuals to manage the team.......RP is the man who has allowed each of these managers (so called) to bring in dozens of players every season.......RP is the man who after 18 months or so sacks the person he has hired after poor results...... Simple as that.

In March 2007 after the CIS cup win instead of building on this we have gone from disaster to disaster.....

There is one common denominator in all this and it's RP.

If your happy with RP then so be it but as far as I am concerned he has ripped the heart and soul out of this club and it will continue as long as he's about!!!

Where did I say I supported RP? I'm able to distinguish between decisions he's made and decide which ones are good and which ones aren't. To invest in infrastructure when he did was a good decision for a number of reasons. On the playing side he's been a failure. They're two separate things though, and people need to stop implying that the infrastructure is at fault for a poor playing side. I understand why people want RP out, and I can't wait for LD to take over the reigns, but to brand his entire reign as a failure isn't right either. Everything is in place for hibs to fulfil their potential, we just need somebody to put a good playing squad together.

[eggbamyasi]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

Bang on the money agree

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[hhibs]

We spend more on wages than everyone except the uglies, yams and on sometimes Aberdeen.


It was my understanding that our wages include all staff, not just players, so it may not be possible to make accurate comparisons.Happy to be corrected if that is not the case.
Of course the bigger can of worms than even that is the spending on wages in an effective manner.

[Aldo]

Where did I say I supported RP? I'm able to distinguish between decisions he's made and decide which ones are good and which ones aren't. To invest in infrastructure when he did was a good decision for a number of reasons. On the playing side he's been a failure. They're two separate things though, and people need to stop implying that the infrastructure is at fault for a poor playing side. I understand why people want RP out, and I can't wait for LD to take over the reigns, but to brand his entire reign as a failure isn't right either. Everything is in place for hibs to fulfil their potential, we just need somebody to put a good playing squad together.

He did get it wrong to some extent as he didn't get the balance between infrastructure and playing side right.

We've suffered for years on the playing side....

Yeah we've got an excellent stadium and training facility but to what extent.... Relegation.

This has not just happened overnight but over a period of years.

Since 2007 from one disaster to another... Mismanaged from the top down.

We didn't kick on after our cup win and a bit more investment would of seen us kicking on.

You say potential.... We deserve what we've got this season and it's been there for us all to see yet RP has just plodded along.... 5 year plan blah blah blah.

The man has ripped the heart and soul out of the club simple as that.

Also for me anyway.... The 2 are connected cos it involves the club and how they are progressing.... Nice stadium but pish team. As I mentioned the playing side has suffered as a result of it.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Always been a believer that the infrastructure has to come first and it has. I won't change my mind on that and I am not going to enter into petty little name calling because of my views either. It is time for Petrie to go and has been for a few seasons now. He delivered what we needed when we needed it and delivered it well. The footballing side was not totally neglected but neglected enough to put us in the position we are in. I have always said that once the infrastructure was in place, the upkeep would be the only cost we would incur for the foreseeable future and all money would be put into the footballing side and punting us up the table. Unfortunately in, my opinion, the money we should have been spending on players was squandered on bad managers and bad players. If the money we had available had been spent well on a good manager and players we would be well above where we are now. It is not the spending on the infrastructure at fault but the other spending being done by buffoons unwisely.

[Thecat23]

Always been a believer that the infrastructure has to come first and it has. I won't change my mind on that and I am not going to enter into petty little name calling because of my views either. It is time for Petrie to go and has been for a few seasons now. He delivered what we needed when we needed it and delivered it well. The footballing side was not totally neglected but neglected enough to put us in the position we are in. I have always said that once the infrastructure was in place, the upkeep would be the only cost we would incur for the foreseeable future and all money would be put into the footballing side and punting us up the table. Unfortunately in, my opinion, the money we should have been spending on players was squandered on bad managers and bad players. If the money we had available had been spent well on a good manager and players we would be well above where we are now. It is not the spending on the infrastructure at fault but the other spending being done by buffoons unwisely.

I've also said the same, I'm glad we got everything in place and at that time it was the right decision. Agree with the rest of your post as well. Poor appointments has cost us very dear along with paying them off. Maybe like you say if we got a good manager we wouldn't be where we are now.

[Ringothedog]

The only millstone around our neck is Petrie along with rest of the failures on our board not the infrastructure. This is turning into a Hibernian civil war. The club v the fans

[jacomo]

Always been a believer that the infrastructure has to come first and it has. I won't change my mind on that and I am not going to enter into petty little name calling because of my views either. It is time for Petrie to go and has been for a few seasons now. He delivered what we needed when we needed it and delivered it well. The footballing side was not totally neglected but neglected enough to put us in the position we are in. I have always said that once the infrastructure was in place, the upkeep would be the only cost we would incur for the foreseeable future and all money would be put into the footballing side and punting us up the table. Unfortunately in, my opinion, the money we should have been spending on players was squandered on bad managers and bad players. If the money we had available had been spent well on a good manager and players we would be well above where we are now. It is not the spending on the infrastructure at fault but the other spending being done by buffoons unwisely.

:agree:

[ekhibee]

He did get it wrong to some extent as he didn't get the balance between infrastructure and playing side right.

We've suffered for years on the playing side....

Yeah we've got an excellent stadium and training facility but to what extent.... Relegation.

This has not just happened overnight but over a period of years.

Since 2007 from one disaster to another... Mismanaged from the top down.

We didn't kick on after our cup win and a bit more investment would of seen us kicking on.

You say potential.... We deserve what we've got this season and it's been there for us all to see yet RP has just plodded along.... 5 year plan blah blah blah.

The man has ripped the heart and soul out of the club simple as that.

Also for me anyway.... The 2 are connected cos it involves the club and how they are progressing.... Nice stadium but pish team. As I mentioned the playing side has suffered as a result of it.

This is exactly what I think too. It always seems as if it's been an either/or, either we spend on the infrastructure or spend on the team. Hibs have been scared, quite rightly, of ever finding themselves in the situation when Mercer tried to shut us down, so the phrase 'speculating to accumulate' is alien to them. But the main disapointment for me has been the ineffectiveness of the training center in improving the quality of the players we've had since it's been up and running. A lot of the people who lauded the training center seemed to be of the belief that the superb training facilities that we now had in place would attract a better type of player. Well it hasn't happened, and the training center begins to look like a millstone round the neck of the club. I don't think it was a bad idea to have it, far from it, but I do think that the board just basically assumed that that was all that was needed, it looked good for attracting new players and possibly new investors too. I do think the managerial staff have to take responsibility for a lot of that too, surely, whatever quality of player they have at their disposal, the whole first team should, at the very least be fit and ready to do a shift. Too often in the games I've been watching it has been exactly the opposite. It makes you wonder exactly how a manager uses the facilities at East Mains to the benefit of the team or whether the players spend too much time in the games room there.

[lapsedhibee]

Infrastructure is one of the few things we have to worry about IMO.


Agreed.


Disagree strongly. Would say that infrastructure is one of the few things we don't have to worry about.

[Keith_M]

The repair costs required for Tynecastle and Ibrox are way over anything we need to keep Easter Road up-to-date.

In that regard, we're in a much better state then either Hearts or The Rangers.

[HFC 0-7]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

There is a simple reason why we are paying so much on wages, because our turnover of players has been shocking. When the money coming in from transfers was high, it was put towards debt and infrastructure. There was no real drive to replace outgoing talent with anything remotely the same. The end result was a lot of duds who ate up wages when they were paid off.

I wonder what wages per first team players would compare across the top flight, IMO, I think a lot of our wage budget was spent getting rid of players instead of improving the squad.

[ekhibee]

There is a simple reason why we are paying so much on wages, because our turnover of players has been shocking. When the money coming in from transfers was high, it was put towards debt and infrastructure. There was no real drive to replace outgoing talent with anything remotely the same. The end result was a lot of duds who ate up wages when they were paid off.

I wonder what wages per first team players would compare across the top flight, IMO, I think a lot of our wage budget was spent getting rid of players instead of improving the squad.

Totally agree. And that's the irony of it when you consider players we could've had, for example, in the season that's just finished. I really can't understand why we couldn't have offered Adam Rooney, for example, a permanent deal at Hibs, okay, so it would have meant overspending slightly on the budget, but surely over the course of two or three seasons it balances out? Am I being naive? I dunno, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Butcher had gone to Petrie and asked about a permanent deal and been told we're not spending a penny more.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

Agree with every word. Whingeing about the one thing we've done well is utterly pointless.

Yes, the club have completely had their eye of the ball concerning issues on the park, but that's more of a cultural/direction/leadership issue than a resource one.

The fact is that with our resources there is no way we should have been relegated. It's due to monumental human incompetence, and isn't the fault of four stands and a training centre.

We've made poor management appointments for the last seven years, and the Raith Rovers cup game has heralded a slump that is almost unmatched in the history of modern sport. That's why we're down.

[Smartie]

I'm sorry, but this thread is making it sound like we've spent all our money on infrastructure and neglected the footballing side entirely. Last season we spent a fee on James Collins and we spent a fee on Michael Nelson. We also have outwith Celtic and Rangers the largest playing budget (probably behind Aberdeen this year too) in the entire country. How many other clubs do you remember than have paid fees in the past few years? How many side would kill for the financial clout we've had over the past number of years? Teams regularly above us in the league are spending massively less than us.

Clearly the plan was the back up our infrastructure with a team on the park worth of what we'd spent money on. Unfortunately, as it stands that's where the mismanagement has come from. We've been spending big wages on players not worthy of playing for a club of our stature. For every players who was in our squad last year we could point at another player in the SPL who is better in that position, who is earning the same or less money.

I agree, the playing side of the football club has been mediocre at best, disastrous at worst, for the past number of years. But it's certainly not due to the finances that the club does or doesn't have at it's disposal due to the infrastructure we have invested in. Yes, it is bad management investing in a poor squad of players, but we can't continue to blame the good decisions RP and the board have made for the other issues that we have as a club. Replacing our entire squad would cost less than it would to build the east or east mains now, sounds like good planning to me then.

I also agree with this 100%.

The week following our relegation was the time for gnashing and wailing, thrashing out, being pissed off and generally being unproductive.

What we need to do now is to carry out a cold and utterly honest post-mortem to get to the bottom of where we have gone wrong. Then we can come up with solutions and work out what we are going to do differently.

IMO blaming the infrastructure is totally wide of the mark. It is something to be proud of and is the least of our worries right now. To be honest the ongoing maintenance costs if we were to spend an increased time out of the top league with decreased revenue could yet turn out to be a problem but it hasn't been to blame for our problems up until now. All the more reason to bounce back at the earliest opportunity.

To blame the investment in infrastructure would suggest that we haven't spent enough on the football side of the business and would suggest that simply by spending more then we would get it right. That doesn't wash with me. We don't need to spend more on compensation for failed managerial appointments, clearing out their deadwood players, buying in the likes of Nelson and Collins. We need to stop doing it.

Our failures to secure our main transfer targets have been well-documented over the years. Going the extra mile for certain targets was not unreasonable. Had we got at least some of our first-choice targets and had a better team (which we undoubtedly would have had imo) would have been financially offset by having bigger crowds. That our crowds have held up over the past few years in the face of the utterly garbage football is a minor miracle. How many more of our more discerning fans/customers might we have tempted along if the product on show was better? This is where the extra money for these players would have been financed from - NOT through failing to invest in the infrastructure.

[CropleyWasGod]

Disagree strongly. Would say that infrastructure is one of the few things we don't have to worry about.

Sorry, I misread Stax's post. I agree with you.

As I say, LD has a better base to build on in that respect than Budge has.

[Jonnyboy]

We spend more on wages than everyone except the uglies, yams and on sometimes Aberdeen.

Probably because we've got/had a huge playing squad Peeve. First team, U20's, EOS although I accept there's a spill over between the latter two. We also have U17's IIRC. Helluva lot of players, helluva lot of wages.

[Ringothedog]

Probably because we've got/had a huge playing squad Peeve. First team, U20's, EOS although I accept there's a spill over between the latter two. We also have U17's IIRC. Helluva lot of players, helluva lot of wages.

A club like Hibernian should always be bottom heavy, this is the only way we will find players who might make it into the first team. I would also think that the average pay for those players would no more than £300 a week. If you have 40 players at that level the cost each year would be quite low i.e. £600000. That is money well spent imo. I would make any cuts at first team level by maybe reducing the squad by 3 or 4 players and using u/20's when needed.

[Stax]

Disagree strongly. Would say that infrastructure is one of the few things we don't have to worry about.
Sorry, initially confused but Just read my post back, meant to say infrastructure Least of our worries :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry, initially confused but Just read my post back, meant to say infrastructure Least of our worries :aok:

... which is how I read it :).

[Jonnyboy]

A club like Hibernian should always be bottom heavy, this is the only way we will find players who might make it into the first team. I would also think that the average pay for those players would no more than £300 a week. If you have 40 players at that level the cost each year would be quite low i.e. £600000. That is money well spent imo. I would make any cuts at first team level by maybe reducing the squad by 3 or 4 players and using u/20's when needed.

I hear what you are saying but for me the bulk of wages should be paid to the first team squad. Very few of those down the ladder will make it to the first team. I'm all for developing our own youth but we have to strike the right balance

[Heedersnvolleys]

The problem with the training facilities is we have never employed a manager of quality who could get the full use of them. None of the managers since Collins have every used similiar facilities and he left before he could take any advantage of them. CC you could argue with his experience down south maybe but he just did not want to be here! The other managers were used to the public park training and i get the feeling they have just used EM as their own "Public Park" without the dog $#!7E. There is so much more we should be getting out of it.

[Lago]

We are always reminded by the board that we have in place a great infrastructure and i'me sure the thought of relegation was never even thought of when we spent the money. Now the unbelievable has happened our outgoings on EM and the new stand will be a heavy burden on the finances and with no guarantee that we will be promoted first go this will be a major factor in how much we have to spend on a new squad. We will be the equivalent of the ragged arsed bairn thanks to us being relegated and i don't think the repercussions of this has been fully realised.
Absolute rubbish!!!

[IWasThere2016]

The answer to the OP is yes.

Hibs have a debt:income ratio that is far too high for the level of club's income.

The spending of the last of the cash and additional for the East was madness.

The cull of the squad, the replacements on the cheap, no contracts for the 17s etc.. is a clear sign we have a cost base that is too fixed and too high going forward in the Chumpionship.

More genius fae RP!

Get him to ******!

[Keith_M]

The spending of the last of the cash and additional for the East was madness.

Hibs replaced the old East Stand for only 3.5 million. This was a remarably low amount for the size of the stand, made possible because of steel prices at an all time low.. added to businesses desperate for any work just to keep ticking over because of the financial collapse.

If the club were to build that stand now, I have no doubts whatsoever that it would cost at least twice what it did then. Therefore, this is one decision for which Petrie should be applauded, for not taking the same short-sighted, short-termist view of some of his detractors.


Feel free to attack Petrie for his mismanagement of the club where it matters most, on the field of play. However, not everything he did was wrong.

[IWasThere2016]

Hibs replaced the old East Stand for only 3.5 million. This was a remarably low amount for the size of the stand, made possible because of steel prices at an all time low.. added to businesses desperate for any work just to keep ticking over because of the financial collapse.

If the club were to build that stand now, I have no doubts whatsoever that it would cost at least twice what it did then. Therefore, this is one decision for which Petrie should be applauded, for not taking the same short-sighted, short-termist view of some of his detractors.


Feel free to attack Petrie for his mismanagement of the club where it matters most, on the field of play. However, not everything he did was wrong.

It's not good sense to spend the last of your cash and borrow in the midst of a recession.. The longer term view would have been to build the fan-base to substantiate the stand and finance it thus also. RP took the short-term view, which is why in the short term later we are struggling with our cost base. That is mismanagement IMHO.

[3pm]

It's not good sense to spend the last of your cash and borrow in the midst of a recession.. The longer term view would have been to build the fan-base to substantiate the stand and finance it thus also. RP took the short-term view, which is why in the short term later we are struggling with our cost base. That is mismanagement IMHO.

G, I totally understand your view and always have but to what extent can we build our fan base? We'll never have 16-18000 folk, it's just not going to happen.

[IWasThere2016]

G, I totally understand your view and always have but to what extent can we build our fan base? We'll never have 16-18000 folk, it's just not going to happen.

Why then build a new stand and INCREASE the capacity to an unnecessary level?

[greenpaper55]

Only someone who doesn't understand the world of football would have got us into such a mess, i can understand the need to build the east and buy EM though why we had to spend 5 million on EM is beyond me, the planning application was running out on the east but to build when crowds were dropping and to have no coherent idea how to bring the crowds back(give us a winning team) is truly staggering. I think Petrie has painted himself into a corner with his terrible decisions and his refusal to resign might be because the state of the finances are worse than we imagined, all will be revealed or will they ?.

[Callum_62]

I think Petrie has painted himself into a corner with his terrible decisions and his refusal to resign might be because the state of the finances are worse than we imagined, all will be revealed or will they ?.

The state of the finances are revealed in full every year

[Smartie]

Only someone who doesn't understand the world of football would have got us into such a mess, i can understand the need to build the east and buy EM though why we had to spend 5 million on EM is beyond me, the planning application was running out on the east but to build when crowds were dropping and to have no coherent idea how to bring the crowds back(give us a winning team) is truly staggering. I think Petrie has painted himself into a corner with his terrible decisions and his refusal to resign might be because the state of the finances are worse than we imagined, all will be revealed or will they ?.

Was EM not mainly built of the desires of TM and JC, both who have experience of how things are done at bigger clubs down South/ on the continent?

The world's finances were in a better place then, and our own circumstances looked significantly rosier than they do now. Of course we would all have liked to have seen the money spent/ blown on players but would that really have been the best long-term strategy?

I still don't think the problem we have had has been how much has been spent on the playing side but how that amount has been spent. Would we have been better off not building EM and the new East Stand and hiring and firing more expensive management teams and more expensive dud players in order to compete on the park with Motherwell, St Johnstone and ICT?

[Just Alf]

I remember at one point not long after EM was completed we had players coming up from Newcastle, Sunderland and from teams a wee bit further afield (did I not read that there was talk of a Hotel or summat??) ...... That would have been a fantastic link to players around the country, last I heard there's no one :-(