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View Full Version : Petrie Out = Butcher Out



trev the hat
30-05-2014, 09:27 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.

WestStandMoaner
30-05-2014, 09:32 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.

Agree :agree: I feel the same way, no way should Butcher be able to slide under the radar he must go also

Paisley Hibby
30-05-2014, 09:36 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.

Yes, I said the same on another thread. In fact, I think getting shot of Butcher is more important.

Captain Trips
30-05-2014, 09:41 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.


Agree :agree: I feel the same way, no way should Butcher be able to slide under the radar he must go also


Yes, I said the same on another thread. In fact, I think getting shot of Butcher is more important.

My thoughts as well glad to see a few others concerned the focus is to much on Petrie.

IberianHibernian
30-05-2014, 09:43 PM
Still can`t understand why Butcher hasn`t resigned but I suppose it`s financial though his manager income must be low compared with media work . Seeing he hasn`t resigned , you`d expect him to be sacked but I suppose that may happen when LD takes over . Get the feeling that we just can`t afford to sack him - Petrie gambled money on compensation to Fenlon and Nicholl and ICT on getting bigger crowds and success . Massive error even if we`d stayed up since crowds didn`t go up at all despite press hype and then fiasco of last 5 months . That`s my only doubt about anti Petrie stuff and that is that it deflects attention away from need to get new manager in soon to start planning new team - players and coaches at all levels . In a vacuum now since what decent manager would sign for us with current uncertainty ? Relegation is never good but in different circumstances ( automatic resignation from Butcher even if we`d won play off ) we could have had some momentum going with exciting new manager and some new signings .

greenlex
30-05-2014, 09:46 PM
I think the opposite. Petrie must go. Butcher has a blank canvas to get a squad/team to compete for promotion. He knows exactly what is required top to bottom in the playing sense. He has started already. He has the ability as he has done this before including his team being unbeaten at home for the whole season at that level. His Inverness side were playing quick passing football so he can replicate that at ER. Last but not least it will cost us money not only to get rid of him and his team but to bring in a replacement with the knowhow or nous to get us back up again. He needs to be given at least a season and take it from there.

Winston Ingram
30-05-2014, 09:56 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.

Absolutely. Keeping means we're already starting next season on the back foot. If the polls on here are anything to go by he's lost the vast majority of the supporters already.

then there's ST sales. I can't imagine a flood of supporters rushing to the ticket office to watch their team kick it into the corners.

Captain Trips
30-05-2014, 09:57 PM
I think the opposite. Petrie must go. Butcher has a blank canvas to get a squad/team to compete for promotion. He knows exactly what is required top to bottom in the playing sense. He has started already. He has the ability as he has done this before including his team being unbeaten at home for the whole season at that level. His Inverness side were playing quick passing football so he can replicate that at ER. Last but not least it will cost us money not only to get rid of him and his team but to bring in a replacement with the knowhow or nous to get us back up again. He needs to be given at least a season and take it from there.

A blank canvas indeed.

http://www.childanxietymom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Drawing11.jpg

No thanks Terry

southsider
30-05-2014, 10:01 PM
Still can`t understand why Butcher hasn`t resigned but I suppose it`s financial though his manager income must be low compared with media work . Seeing he hasn`t resigned , you`d expect him to be sacked but I suppose that may happen when LD takes over . Get the feeling that we just can`t afford to sack him - Petrie gambled money on compensation to Fenlon and Nicholl and ICT on getting bigger crowds and success . Massive error even if we`d stayed up since crowds didn`t go up at all despite press hype and then fiasco of last 5 months . That`s my only doubt about anti Petrie stuff and that is that it deflects attention away from need to get new manager in soon to start planning new team - players and coaches at all levels . In a vacuum now since what decent manager would sign for us with current uncertainty ? Relegation is never good but in different circumstances ( automatic resignation from Butcher even if we`d won play off ) we could have had some momentum going with exciting new manager and some new signings .
If he had any integrity he would have but like every failed football manager he will wait for a pay-off. These days being a failure brings greater financial reward than success. Doubt there is a clause in his contract about relegation but if not, why not. I am up for a treble, Petrie, Butcher and Malpass. Get them the hell away from my club.

jacomo
30-05-2014, 10:03 PM
I think the opposite. Petrie must go. Butcher has a blank canvas to get a squad/team to compete for promotion. He knows exactly what is required top to bottom in the playing sense. He has started already. He has the ability as he has done this before including his team being unbeaten at home for the whole season at that level. His Inverness side were playing quick passing football so he can replicate that at ER. Last but not least it will cost us money not only to get rid of him and his team but to bring in a replacement with the knowhow or nous to get us back up again. He needs to be given at least a season and take it from there.

The question has to be asked... If he knows what he's doing, why has he made such an abject mess of it so far?

I can't understand how he achieved his success at ICT but I'm past caring. I just think he's the wrong man in the wrong job, and Petrie's latest appointment has been his worst.

trev the hat
30-05-2014, 10:04 PM
I think the opposite. Petrie must go. Butcher has a blank canvas to get a squad/team to compete for promotion. He knows exactly what is required top to bottom in the playing sense. He has started already. He has the ability as he has done this before including his team being unbeaten at home for the whole season at that level. His Inverness side were playing quick passing football so he can replicate that at ER. Last but not least it will cost us money not only to get rid of him and his team but to bring in a replacement with the knowhow or nous to get us back up again. He needs to be given at least a season and take it from there.

With the upmost respect
Can you honestly say you would happily pay to watch more of what you've seen over the last 10 home games ?
Butchers total capitulation & out of depth management coincides with a chairman who is totally alienated from the pulse of the Hibs Family.
Put simply neither understand !!!

IberianHibernian
30-05-2014, 10:08 PM
If he had any integrity he would have but like every failed football manager he will wait for a pay-off. These days being a failure brings greater financial reward than success. Doubt there is a clause in his contract about relegation but if not, why not. I am up for a treble, Petrie, Butcher and Malpass. Get them the hell away from my club.Surely there must have been a clause ? Agree about the treble but would put managers before Petrie simply because we need to start looking for a new management team ( we have a great opportunity to attract a good manager now in summer ) and right appointment would boost season ticket sales and attract new players .

jeffers
30-05-2014, 10:09 PM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.

dave62
30-05-2014, 10:09 PM
Both Petrie's and Butcher's positions at the club are untenable. Both must go.

Del Boy
30-05-2014, 10:10 PM
Hopefully if we force Petrie out then Butcher will follow. Might sound daft seeing as its still May but we're running out of time given that we need to recruit a new manager and they then have to virtually sign a new team!!!

trev the hat
30-05-2014, 10:17 PM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.

TB Hibs tenure needs no explaining.
I remember his words in the Eastern Cemetery prior to his 1st game.
I really do hope we as a support post Petrie do not tolerate his significant part in our current predicament.

greenlex
30-05-2014, 10:20 PM
With the upmost respect
Can you honestly say you would happily pay to watch more of what you've seen over the last 10 home games ?
Butchers total capitulation & out of depth management coincides with a chairman who is totally alienated from the pulse of the Hibs Family.
Put simply neither understand !!!
No absolutely not. I wouldn't be happy with that. Thankfully it looks like the players are about to be booted and rightly so. Not one of them a winner and not one of them taking any responsibility on the Park. Would I be happy to watch the Inverness team that turned us over regularly. Yes I would. There are probably other managers out there that could do a better job for sure but they are gonna cost us even more money (with no guarantees)that will ultimately come out the playing budget. Add more cash out the playing budget to get rid of them then it makes no sense to do this right now.

lucky
30-05-2014, 10:26 PM
I want RP out followed by TB and MM

All 3 have contributed to our downfall so all must go

Heedersnvolleys
30-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Yes, I said the same on another thread. In fact, I think getting shot of Butcher is more important.
This. But please let Leanne pick the next one.

trev the hat
30-05-2014, 10:41 PM
No absolutely not. I wouldn't be happy with that. Thankfully it looks like the players are about to be booted and rightly so. Not one of them a winner and not one of them taking any responsibility on the Park. Would I be happy to watch the Inverness team that turned us over regularly. Yes I would. There are probably other managers out there that could do a better job for sure but they are gonna cost us even more money (with no guarantees)that will ultimately come out the playing budget. Add more cash out the playing budget to get rid of them then it makes no sense to do this right now.

What makes sense is for us to make sure we don't tolerate mediocrity in amy shape or form.
If the £10k a week contract for Butcher & co isn't terminated along with the inept chairman how can you possibly have any confidence in the manager to bring us forward given his choices substitutions.

Winston Ingram
30-05-2014, 10:41 PM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.

Add to that...


His continued selection of the woeful Michael Nelson
His refusal to use James McPake
His dreadful transfer dealings in January
His complete lack of a plan B
His vocal and public lack of vilification of the squad.
Prioritising a trip to a south coast student union over watching our next opponents in one of our biggest games in years.




...and as for this 'wait til he gets his own players pish'. The job of a manager is to get the best out of the available resources. Not down tools when your not happy with what's available.

PatHead
30-05-2014, 10:48 PM
What if RP won't resign. Do you still want Butcher to go and let Petrie pick the new manager?

Who in their right mind would want the job whilst the Chairman's future is in doubt? A new chairman might not want the new guy.

Things have to be done in a logical order starting with the removal of RP.

For the record I am not sure if Butcher should go.

Hermit Crab
30-05-2014, 10:52 PM
For me this is a no brainer & IMO will be crucial in winning over the support. I can't see any way Petrie's decisions can be deemed justified yet again & fear post Petrie we could be left with his appointment. In the focus to remove Petrie it should be fully recognised how much of a failure Butcher has presided over.
I have serious concerns that TB becomes overlooked in the bigger picture & it worries me big time.


Petrie out. :agree:

Butcher out :no way:

greenlex
30-05-2014, 10:54 PM
What makes sense is for us to make sure we don't tolerate mediocrity in amy shape or form.
If the £10k a week contract for Butcher & co isn't terminated along with the inept chairman how can you possibly have any confidence in the manager to bring us forward given his choices substitutions.
I'm sure Butcher doesn't tolerate mediocrity in any shape or form. What choices of substitutions are these? The ones he was trying for weeks to find the right winning blend or the ones he used? The squad wasn't good enough. The teams wernt good enough. No money in January to strengthen. We got third rate loanees for the money we did have to try and freshen things up. Didn't work. As has been the norm for the last 7 years we spent money on firing managers rather than paying for better players. It has to stop. Butcher is relatively successful at our level given time. He needs to be given time.

frazeHFC
30-05-2014, 10:54 PM
Petrie out. Butcher out. Malpas out.

We are guarenteed to have a pretty much new team for next season, and I am hoping we have a brand new set-up off the field too. Time for serious changes.

trev the hat
30-05-2014, 11:11 PM
I'm sure Butcher doesn't tolerate mediocrity in any shape or form. What choices of substitutions are these? The ones he was trying for weeks to find the right winning blend or the ones he used? The squad wasn't good enough. The teams wernt good enough. No money in January to strengthen. We got third rate loanees for the money we did have to try and freshen things up. Didn't work. As has been the norm for the last 7 years we spent money on firing managers rather than paying for better players. It has to stop. Butcher is relatively successful at our level given time. He needs to be given time.

The substitution choices or lack of them / predictability are clear for all to see unless you leave ER prior to 60 min.
devoid of any thought, craft, purpose.
Who brings in the third rate loanees ??
we didn't try & freshen things up, you ain't kidding !
This our level talk is contributory to where we are right now.
Butcher was given plenty time & he made it clear as day to me anyway that he isn't up to task.
Whilst I fully respect your views I'm genuinely surprised you see things as you do.

Long Time Hibee
30-05-2014, 11:17 PM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.

Spot on Jeffers. I've said previously his handling of Alex Harris is really bad management, not to mention telling players when he walked in the door that they're crap and then asking/telling them that they need to help us out before they get the boot.
Guess what they did - GIRUY Boss!!!!!!! Amateur management and really worrying! I was happy when he was appointed but have serious reservations now and have never been more embarrassed to be a Hibs fan.

Crossgates Hibs
30-05-2014, 11:24 PM
My thoughts as well glad to see a few others concerned the focus is to much on Petrie.


Agree with this Petrie doesn't pick the team or coach them. Butcher for me has plenty to answer if he comes out and said there was a player power problem or something he might get a bit support but it looks like he trod on the stronger characters to show who was boss and lost the team. I feel the team chucked it ages ago and hasn't tried a leg since the window closed.

Long Time Hibee
30-05-2014, 11:34 PM
Add to that...


His continued selection of the woeful Michael Nelson
His refusal to use James McPake
His dreadful transfer dealings in January
His complete lack of a plan B
His vocal and public lack of vilification of the squad.
Prioritising a trip to a south coast student union over watching our next opponents in one of our biggest games in years.



...and as for this 'wait til he gets his own players pish'. The job of a manager is to get the best out of the available resources. Not down tools when your not happy with what's available.

It just gets worse when you add it all together and in most businesses, if you mess up so often you get the bullet. (and you don't get your contract paid either!!!!) Also has TB ever explained why he brought in Boateng and then having played him once I think, presumably realised he was awful? It really is a joke and we are all supposed to trust him because he'll have 'his' players?

The Green Goblin
30-05-2014, 11:47 PM
I think that part of the problem is that there's a strong feeling that things need to change, for there to be a clean slate and for many people, TB will always have that connection to the 'old' regime and relegation. It's a tricky one tbh, because I think he's failed so far in the job- I can't think of any redeeming aspects of keeping him on, except avoiding a financial blow- but he has been here before and done well. Big risk though, given the pressure to get next season right. Ach, what a sad state of affairs all round.

majorhibs
30-05-2014, 11:58 PM
I'm sure Butcher doesn't tolerate mediocrity in any shape or form. What choices of substitutions are these? The ones he was trying for weeks to find the right winning blend or the ones he used? The squad wasn't good enough. The teams wernt good enough. No money in January to strengthen. We got third rate loanees for the money we did have to try and freshen things up. Didn't work. As has been the norm for the last 7 years we spent money on firing managers rather than paying for better players. It has to stop. Butcher is relatively successful at our level given time. He needs to be given time.

Nonsense! You blame it on ALL the players. You blame it on too many managers. You say its too expensive. Dud manager. Shocking record. Relegated against all the odds. But YOU want him to continue? Why? You his drinking buddy or something? He is a dud, a total failure as a manager, he hasnt got "it". He is not up to being manager of Hibs! He will ruin the club if allowed to continue. How long before next season the apologists start out with the "needs time to gel" "completely new squad" caper? Just do what REAL football clubs do when relegated, even clubs that put up a fight, unlike Butcher did. Get rid before more damage is done!

TornadoHibby
31-05-2014, 12:45 AM
This. But please let Leanne pick the next one.

So this new CEO is now an HR expert with specific expertise in identifying and employing excellent SPFL football club managers?!!

Great, first we've had for years!!

Saorsa
31-05-2014, 12:51 AM
This. But please let Leanne pick the next one.and you think she'll be picking anything with petrie still there?

Lewis77
31-05-2014, 03:00 AM
Fair's fair, if I get myself famous for sporting a blooded bandage whilst wearing an england top, then kick lumps out of opposition players bereft of any finesse for the ibrox shower, can I be the next Hibs Manager?

pacorosssco
31-05-2014, 03:44 AM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.

Nail head. Petrie OUT Butcher OUT

DH1875
31-05-2014, 02:14 PM
Not much of a choice but if I had to pick one to stay and one to go it would defo be for Butcher to go. IF Petrie goes, Butcher has to go with him.

Paisley Hibby
31-05-2014, 02:50 PM
I'm sure Butcher doesn't tolerate mediocrity in any shape or form. What choices of substitutions are these? The ones he was trying for weeks to find the right winning blend or the ones he used? The squad wasn't good enough. The teams wernt good enough. No money in January to strengthen. We got third rate loanees for the money we did have to try and freshen things up. Didn't work. As has been the norm for the last 7 years we spent money on firing managers rather than paying for better players. It has to stop. Butcher is relatively successful at our level given time. He needs to be given time.

The squad would have been good enough to stay up under Fenlon (albeit boring us to tears in the process). Butcher couldn't even manage that level of mediocrity so it's a no brainer for me, he has to go. We can't afford NOT to sack him.

As for his pride stopping him from resigning, don't make me laugh. I'd bet he's just holding out in the hope of getting a good pay off.

greenlex
31-05-2014, 03:06 PM
Butcher is a decent manager. Yes he's made mistakes. He will be starting with basically a whole new squad. There was/is something fundamentally wrong at Hibs that has permeated from the top man down. Butcher isn't part if the problem. Petrie yes.Gutless players yes. I think throwing baby out with the bathwater (especially when it will cost us dear) would bd a mistake. You don't become s bad manager in a few months.

Keith_M
31-05-2014, 03:12 PM
Did Butcher make a mess of the second half our season?

-- Yes, there is no denying that.

If we change the management team now, are we guaranteed to get anyone in that could do a better job of rebuilding Hibs & getting promoted than the current management team?

-- In my opinion, no.


We have changed management so often in the last few years, with no positive outcome. If we do it now, we'll just be repeating the same behaviour, only this time it'll cost us a shedload of money that really should be spent on new players. While Butcher and Co have their obvious faults, they now have a clean slate to build a team and should be given the opportunity to achieve the same as they did at ICT.

Dan Sarf
31-05-2014, 04:40 PM
Spiers in the Herald. Apologies if already posted...

No-one but Butcher took Hibs down. It is his responsibility. Hibs should have been in no danger of such a fate, no matter the toils of the team under previous manager, Pat Fenlon.
Big Terry bears a heavy burden for what has happened at Easter Road, far above the constant bleating about Rod Petrie, the moustachioed gauleiter of the Hibernian boardroom.
If Butcher hangs on to his position - and right now he is - then the key question of trust is next up. Is he the man to restructure Hibs, as Butcher believes he is? He has had six months in which to build up that trust among the Hibs faithful, and failed miserably in the task.

Betty Boop
31-05-2014, 04:54 PM
Spiers in the Herald. Apologies if already posted...

No-one but Butcher took Hibs down. It is his responsibility. Hibs should have been in no danger of such a fate, no matter the toils of the team under previous manager, Pat Fenlon.
Big Terry bears a heavy burden for what has happened at Easter Road, far above the constant bleating about Rod Petrie, the moustachioed gauleiter of the Hibernian boardroom.
If Butcher hangs on to his position - and right now he is - then the key question of trust is next up. Is he the man to restructure Hibs, as Butcher believes he is? He has had six months in which to build up that trust among the Hibs faithful, and failed miserably in the task.

Agree with everything Spiers has to say there.

Golden Bear
31-05-2014, 04:58 PM
Agree with everything Spiers has to say there.

He also should have added that's he (Butcher) had six months to gain the respect of the team but he failed miserably.

Phil D. Rolls
31-05-2014, 05:02 PM
Agree with everything Spiers has to say there.

Fenlon got the sack because we weren't threatening at the top of the table. When Butcher arrived we expected to overtake Inverness. We didn't expect what happened.

I wish there was a collective outbreak of honesty on here. When Petrie brought in Butcher, everybody thought it was the right move.

I wouldn't ask Petrie to leave because of Butcher, who has been an absolute disaster. I'd ask him to go because over the last 7 years he has had enough chances to get the thing right, and failed.

The Green Goblin
31-05-2014, 05:28 PM
Fenlon got the sack because we weren't threatening at the top of the table. When Butcher arrived we expected to overtake Inverness. We didn't expect what happened.

I wish there was a collective outbreak of honesty on here. When Petrie brought in Butcher, everybody thought it was the right move.

I wouldn't ask Petrie to leave because of Butcher, who has been an absolute disaster. I'd ask him to go because over the last 7 years he has had enough chances to get the thing right, and failed.

I would agree that the vast majority thought it was a great move, but you have to admit that given where we were, the very idea that we might somehow get relegated at that moment in time was laughable. Unthinkable. It doesn't change the fact that Butcher failed.

Siralbertkidd
31-05-2014, 05:58 PM
So this new CEO is now an HR expert with specific expertise in identifying and employing excellent SPFL football club managers?!!

Great, first we've had for years!!

I am sure, that unlike Rod, she is a football man as well :wink:

majorhibs
31-05-2014, 06:06 PM
Fenlon got the sack because we weren't threatening at the top of the table. When Butcher arrived we expected to overtake Inverness. We didn't expect what happened.

I wish there was a collective outbreak of honesty on here. When Petrie brought in Butcher, everybody thought it was the right move.

I wouldn't ask Petrie to leave because of Butcher, who has been an absolute disaster. I'd ask him to go because over the last 7 years he has had enough chances to get the thing right, and failed.

I wish folk would collectively drop this use of "we". Speaking for myself I wanted to see how "we" would get on without 2 defensive midfielders & general negative tactics for a change. I was, however, not overjoyed at Petries latest choice. Having had years worth of arguing with mates, I did not fancy Butcher due to his very dubious managerial career to date, BUT, the jury was out with me after he SEEMED to finally be doing something right in management. i did NOT, however, imagine in my wildest dreams that he could be so humpty as to get "us" so far down the league. I thought it even less likely that he could possibly relegate "us". But what did I know. What I know now is that I have to say Butcher is the worst manager IMO, I have seen at Hibs. That was a disgrace. He has to go. Simple as that. And Petrie must never be allowed to choose another Hibs manager. Simple as that.

emerald green
31-05-2014, 06:41 PM
I think the opposite. Petrie must go. Butcher has a blank canvas to get a squad/team to compete for promotion. He knows exactly what is required top to bottom in the playing sense. He has started already. He has the ability as he has done this before including his team being unbeaten at home for the whole season at that level. His Inverness side were playing quick passing football so he can replicate that at ER. Last but not least it will cost us money not only to get rid of him and his team but to bring in a replacement with the knowhow or nous to get us back up again. He needs to be given at least a season and take it from there.

I didn't see any attempt to play anything remotely like quick passing football since Butcher took over from Fenlon last year. Why was there no attempt to set out and coach/instruct his teams to at least try to play a passing game? If he can replicate it at ER, why did he not do that right from the start?

Why wait until the club is relegated? Maybe it's because he thought the players at his disposal were not capable of playing a passing game? I don't know, but Butcher has never actually come out and said to the best of my knowledge. It's just been one apology after another. The usual excuses and platitudes, week after week, as his team imploded and were relegated in the most gutless and embarrassing manner possible.

I'm fairly sure Butcher talked about Hibs "getting balls into the box quicker" (hoofball?) when he first took charge. Then what? Hope for the best?

I hope he can turn it around, but I wont be holding my breath. If he does, I will be equally delighted and amazed.

Smartie
31-05-2014, 06:57 PM
Fenlon got the sack because we weren't threatening at the top of the table. When Butcher arrived we expected to overtake Inverness. We didn't expect what happened.

I wish there was a collective outbreak of honesty on here. When Petrie brought in Butcher, everybody thought it was the right move.

I wouldn't ask Petrie to leave because of Butcher, who has been an absolute disaster. I'd ask him to go because over the last 7 years he has had enough chances to get the thing right, and failed.

Fenlon wasn't sacked though, he walked. And he walked because he felt he'd lost the dressing room and the players weren't listening to him. The football was dire under Fenlon and we didn't complain when he was sacked thinking that our poor form was his fault.

This squad had previous for getting on top of a manager. Butcher identified that the squad wasn't good enough - there were no funds to bring in players without shipping out first. He identified players he didn't feel were providing us with value - NO other club saw fit to take them off our hands. So Butcher was left to take the scraps on offer on deadline day. And it didn't work.

He saw that it wasn't working, week after week, at the end of the season. He tried everything, probably changing it too much but there you go. There was no combination of these players that he could make work. Maybe he could have kept a stable team - there would have been an outcry. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Butcher has proven that he can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear. The football has been utterly garbage under him but is it really his fault? I don't think he's had a chance.

We have to stop sacking managers as soon as the football is poor and thinking that this alone will sort it. Butcher has a track record of getting out of this division and it would also cost a fortune to get rid of him so we need to get behind him.

More to the point Hibs need to get behind him. I'd say Petrie needs to get behind him but Petrie needs to GTF and let Hibs get on with it.

blackpoolhibs
31-05-2014, 07:00 PM
Butcher is a decent manager. Yes he's made mistakes. He will be starting with basically a whole new squad. There was/is something fundamentally wrong at Hibs that has permeated from the top man down. Butcher isn't part if the problem. Petrie yes.Gutless players yes. I think throwing baby out with the bathwater (especially when it will cost us dear) would bd a mistake. You don't become s bad manager in a few months.

What was fundamentally wrong with Coventry, Sunderland, Motherwell, Sydney, and Brentford?

greenpaper55
31-05-2014, 07:12 PM
In over fifty years of watching Hibs last Sundays performance was easily the worst i have ever seen, don't forget we could have been beaten by three or four goals and it would not have been out of place. He is devoid of any footballing coaching skills in the sense that we know it, he would not know a short passing game if it smacked him in the teeth and his only coaching he does from the sidelines is to imitate a lunatic trying to fly !. he has to go for a level of incompetence that would be hard to beat.

jeffers
31-05-2014, 07:13 PM
Fenlon wasn't sacked though, he walked. And he walked because he felt he'd lost the dressing room and the players weren't listening to him. The football was dire under Fenlon and we didn't complain when he was sacked thinking that our poor form was his fault.

This squad had previous for getting on top of a manager. Butcher identified that the squad wasn't good enough - there were no funds to bring in players without shipping out first. He identified players he didn't feel were providing us with value - NO other club saw fit to take them off our hands. So Butcher was left to take the scraps on offer on deadline day. And it didn't work.

He saw that it wasn't working, week after week, at the end of the season. He tried everything, probably changing it too much but there you go. There was no combination of these players that he could make work. Maybe he could have kept a stable team - there would have been an outcry. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Butcher has proven that he can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear. The football has been utterly garbage under him but is it really his fault? I don't think he's had a chance.

We have to stop sacking managers as soon as the football is poor and thinking that this alone will sort it. Butcher has a track record of getting out of this division and it would also cost a fortune to get rid of him so we need to get behind him.

More to the point Hibs need to get behind him. I'd say Petrie needs to get behind him but Petrie needs to GTF and let Hibs get on with it.

He couldn't even make a sow's ear out of a sow's ear, he made something far worse.

greenlex
31-05-2014, 07:16 PM
What was fundamentally wrong with Coventry, Sunderland, Motherwell, Sydney, and Brentford?
I don't know G. I'm talking about Hibs. Where he has had time he has performed. He has proved given time he is a good manager. Couple that with the mess at Hibs I feel we are in danger of overlooking that and in a scattergun manner taking folk out who don't need to be taken out (at a cost I may add). Butcher ain't the problem but he certainly has the tools to be part of the solution.

Lewis77
31-05-2014, 07:17 PM
Butcher is such a bad fit for our club, I thought that from the start. People shouldn't over analyse the Butcher issue. He took us down, he should go, simple!

jeffers
31-05-2014, 07:18 PM
What was fundamentally wrong with Coventry, Sunderland, Motherwell, Sydney, and Brentford?

One of:


Something fundamentally wrong at these clubs
They weren't his players
He instructed the players but they didn't listen to him
The supporters got on the players backs
He had no funds to sign players


Whatever the reason you can guarantee bh that it wasn't his fault......

Smartie
31-05-2014, 07:24 PM
Butcher is such a bad fit for our club, I thought that from the start. People shouldn't over analyse the Butcher issue. He took us down, he should go, simple!

Did he? And did McLeish take us down the last time?

Petrie, Fenlon, Calderwood, Collins, Nelson, McGivern to name but a few have all played a part in taking us down. Too simple to pin it all on Butcher.

southsider
31-05-2014, 07:34 PM
Petrie out. Butcher out. Malpas out.

We are guarenteed to have a pretty much new team for next season, and I am hoping we have a brand new set-up off the field too. Time for serious changes.
Perhaps it would e for the best if we just right off the forthcoming season. At least 2 home games against range7s and hea7ts plus half a mil. parashoot payment will provide financial stability. I would appoint a young coach, perhaps Ian Murray, with a mandate to bring us back within 2/3 years BUT play football the Hibs way. Entertaining attacking football, not the Butcher hoofball. You know it makes sense.

broonie27
31-05-2014, 08:26 PM
Butcher out first for me before he does any more damage to the playing side, IMO he's getting far too easy a ride from some fans not to mention the media.

I keep hearing about how well he did at ICT but his honking record at pretty much every other club he's been at is just glossed over. And how everything will be OK when he gets his own players in. But that doesn't excuse:



His handling of Alex Harris, who was being rested 'til the end of the season only to select him again a few games later and continue to play him when he was woefully off form.
Tom Taiwo wasn't in his plans only to select him and then praise him as one of our better players. Oh and then drop him completely for the last half dozen or so games of the season.
His petty spat with KT, who was our best player, but was rarely selected. But claim in the media he was looking forward to having him fit again. And before someone says he was a troublemaker the easy solution to that was tell him he was not wanted and did not need to report for training as he would be away in the summer.
Liam Craig as a holding midfielder and captain. Only to be told he was free to go at the end of the season. Great judgement there.
The substitution of Heffernan for OTJ against Hamilton, only to concede a last gasp equaliser then be left hanging on for penalties in extra time.


But we can trust him not make these type of basic errors when he gets his own players in. Players the calibre of Danny Haynes and Daniel Boateng who was so bad he couldn't even get in the squad. Yeah right. Petrie must go one hundred per cent but get that clown Butcher away as well.


I don`t know how you managed it but you read my mind from 12000 mile away. Impressive stuff.

Whilst Petrie has forced us to buy poorer and poorer players over the last few years Butcher took over with a team in 6th place in the league. I have never, ever rated the man and the only reason he got the job is because Petrie has no real knowledge of football. This is a man who had never been to a football match before joining the Hibs board. Dumb and dumber.

basehibby
31-05-2014, 08:30 PM
I think that part of the problem is that there's a strong feeling that things need to change, for there to be a clean slate and for many people, TB will always have that connection to the 'old' regime and relegation. It's a tricky one tbh, because I think he's failed so far in the job- I can't think of any redeeming aspects of keeping him on, except avoiding a financial blow- but he has been here before and done well. Big risk though, given the pressure to get next season right. Ach, what a sad state of affairs all round.

:agree: I'm in a quandry - I'm sick to the back teeth of going through managers non-stop and all the instability and groundhog day style restructuring that goes with it. But - and it's a big BUT Butcher has done spectacularly badly in his first 6 months at Hibs - we were in no apparent danger of being relegated when he came in but that's exactly what happened and, ordinarily you would think he had earned his P45 for that alone.

But he was a popular appointment amongst the support and with good reason given his standing in the game and his recent record at ICT, but it took time to build that success - do we give him the time to build for success at Hibs or is it groundhog day once again? Getting rid would cost money which we desperately need to be spending on players, with absolutely NO guarantee that his replacement would be an instant success either - yet I get the feeling that keeping him may well alienate a proportion of the fans before a ball has been kicked in the Championship. It's a mess alright and one that needs sorting out pronto if we want to have any chance of seeing our team promoted back to the Premier at the first time of asking.

broonie27
31-05-2014, 08:32 PM
I wish folk would collectively drop this use of "we". Speaking for myself I wanted to see how "we" would get on without 2 defensive midfielders & general negative tactics for a change. I was, however, not overjoyed at Petries latest choice. Having had years worth of arguing with mates, I did not fancy Butcher due to his very dubious managerial career to date, BUT, the jury was out with me after he SEEMED to finally be doing something right in management. i did NOT, however, imagine in my wildest dreams that he could be so humpty as to get "us" so far down the league. I thought it even less likely that he could possibly relegate "us". But what did I know. What I know now is that I have to say Butcher is the worst manager IMO, I have seen at Hibs. That was a disgrace. He has to go. Simple as that. And Petrie must never be allowed to choose another Hibs manager. Simple as that.


Totally agree. Although i'd say Duffy was worse.

greenlex
31-05-2014, 08:33 PM
I don`t know how you managed it but you read my mind from 12000 mile away. Impressive stuff.

Whilst Petrie has forced us to buy poorer and poorer players over the last few years Butcher took over with a team in 6th place in the league. I have never, ever rated the man and the only lreason he got the job is because Petrie has no real knowledge of football. This is a man who had never been to a football match before joining the Hibs board. Dumb and dumber.
I respect folks opinion but the bit in bold is just utter nonsense.

Alfred E Newman
31-05-2014, 08:44 PM
Speaking to several supporters of other clubs this afternoon and like me they are all amazed that Butcher is still in a job. Petrie has not helped with his penny pinching and lack of ambition but it is Butcher and Malpas that relegated us. This campaign against Petrie is deflecting the attention away from the real culprits and even if it succeeds in removing the man, at the end of the day we will be stuck with that couple of goons.

hibeejeebies
31-05-2014, 11:28 PM
Not much of a choice but if I had to pick one to stay and one to go it would defo be for Butcher to go. IF Petrie goes, Butcher has to go with him.

Mate, I'm pretty sure that doesn't make any sense....

The_Horde
01-06-2014, 01:16 AM
Butcher has no idea how to manage a struggling squad. That's been proven before.

But he knows how to build a squad capable of winning the championship and finishing in the top 6 in the premiership.

For that reason alone he gets some time to turn it around.

IberianHibernian
01-06-2014, 01:29 AM
Speaking to several supporters of other clubs this afternoon and like me they are all amazed that Butcher is still in a job. Petrie has not helped with his penny pinching and lack of ambition but it is Butcher and Malpas that relegated us. This campaign against Petrie is deflecting the attention away from the real culprits and even if it succeeds in removing the man, at the end of the day we will be stuck with that couple of goons. Exactly . First priority has to be to get rid of Butcher and to start interviewing candidates for new vacancy. Lots of good possible managers IF handled well by club but time is running out .

IberianHibernian
01-06-2014, 01:35 AM
Mate, I'm pretty sure that doesn't make any sense....Makes perfect sense . In short term we need a new manager and still have time to have a good manager in for next season ( August so lets interview as many candidates as posible ) . Petrie is going to leave soon ( at latest in late summer ) so now is time to look for new manager and start planning next season with idea of instant promotion.

Leith Mo
01-06-2014, 01:41 AM
Trust me. Step 2 = Butcher and his cabal gone. Let's get over the line together united on phase one then we set phasers to kill and the hun goes home. It is a just argument and a winning strategy.

Callum_62
01-06-2014, 03:19 AM
Trust me. Step 2 = Butcher and his cabal gone. Let's get over the line together united on phase one then we set phasers to kill and the hun goes home. It is a just argument and a winning strategy.

Id rather not unite with that kind of thinking TBH.

JOD
01-06-2014, 04:11 AM
gotta say just in and my keeboard not working right so I going to ramble so many hyprocrotics on here unbelievable terry was a great appointment by RP BY 90 + PER CENT of this forum now cause we belly up it is now Rod's fault and if we suddenly get rid of Rod that will solve our problems what a load of pish. We have a great club and we don't need witch hunts lets all pull to- gether and get behind our team ffs

southsider
01-06-2014, 06:37 AM
gotta say just in and my keeboard not working right so I going to ramble so many hyprocrotics on here unbelievable terry was a great appointment by RP BY 90 + PER CENT of this forum now cause we belly up it is now Rod's fault and if we suddenly get rid of Rod that will solve our problems what a load of pish. We have a great club and we don't need witch hunts lets all pull to- gether and get behind our team ffs
In case you did not notice, we have been relegated. Two reasons, Petrie's failure to invest in the playing staff and Butcher's failure as a coach. That, sir is the truth. PETRIE OUT & BUTCHER OUT.

jacomo
01-06-2014, 09:17 AM
Fenlon got the sack because we weren't threatening at the top of the table. When Butcher arrived we expected to overtake Inverness. We didn't expect what happened.

I wish there was a collective outbreak of honesty on here. When Petrie brought in Butcher, everybody thought it was the right move.

I wouldn't ask Petrie to leave because of Butcher, who has been an absolute disaster. I'd ask him to go because over the last 7 years he has had enough chances to get the thing right, and failed.

Honesty about what?

Butcher emerged as favourite for the position very quickly. It's clear that he was Petrie's 1st choice and most of us - including me - were happy. He'd done a good job at ICT and seemed to have the strength of character to succeed.

I have never met Butcher. I have never spoken to anyone who has worked with him. My impressions of him are strictly from afar. In truth, I really know very little about him. Is it not reasonable to expect Hibs to have done some proper research and due diligence before appointing him?

I think he's been an absolute disaster and I have no confidence in him turning it around. All he had to do was avoid relegation and he'd have had my support for next season.

emerald green
01-06-2014, 09:42 AM
gotta say just in and my keeboard not working right so I going to ramble so many hyprocrotics on here unbelievable terry was a great appointment by RP BY 90 + PER CENT of this forum now cause we belly up it is now Rod's fault and if we suddenly get rid of Rod that will solve our problems what a load of pish. We have a great club and we don't need witch hunts lets all pull to- gether and get behind our team ffs

Rubbish. Who is "we" belly up? Open your eyes. Petrie has to take responsibility for the state this club is in. Just because someone says they think someone is a great appointment and then realises it's not doesn't make them a hypocrite. Are you serious? Do you think everything at ER is just fine? Do you think Butcher has done a great job at ER getting the club relegated? Unbelievable blaming the fans.

IMO Petrie & Butcher should do the honourable thing and offer to resign right now. It is not a "witch hunt". It's an attempt to save our club. Could things get any worse after being relegated in such a gutless and shameful manner under Butcher? Yet the pair of them are still in post.

Nobody, as far as I am aware, has ever said that getting rid of "Rod" (is he your pal?) that will solve our problems. It will merely be the first step in trying to clear up the shambles our club has descended into under his watch.

Forget the nice stadium & training centre. I don't give a flying f*** about that to be honest. I would rather have a good team on the pitch playing attractive and winning football which I'm proud to go and watch. Not the utter garbage that's been the misfortune of the fans to have to suffer for years now.

JOD
01-06-2014, 11:19 AM
I've not took the time or trouble To look up your previous but I can count on 1 or maybe 2 hands how many posters on here were against TB APPOINTMENT. So hindsight a wonderful thing you must have. RP thought he was doing right thing but all you supa dupa f cking experts knew better. But forgot to mention it at the time. git behind our team and stop the witchunt.

emerald green
01-06-2014, 12:07 PM
I've not took the time or trouble To look up your previous but I can count on 1 or maybe 2 hands how many posters on here were against TB APPOINTMENT. So hindsight a wonderful thing you must have. RP thought he was doing right thing but all you supa dupa f cking experts knew better. But forgot to mention it at the time. git behind our team and stop the witchunt.

Yep, I was one of the many who hoped Butcher & Malpas' appointment would be a good one. Nobody can see into the future, and know for certain any appointment will be a success. Now that it has proven to be another disastrous appointment by Petrie, what does one do? Pretend everything is ok and just hope the problem just goes away? What do you think?

I've never pretended to be a "supa dupa expert", whatever that is. But I recognise total failure when it's staring me in the face.

My previous post seems to have gone right over the top of your head as you've not actually answered any of the questions I posted. You've simply repeated "stop the witch hunt".

Don't lecture me about getting behind our team by the way pal. I've supported my team through thick and thin for a long time. Probably a lot longer than you by the sounds of you, and this will be the third time I've seen my team relegated. And still I go back. What about you? How long have you supported Hibs?

Have you got anything constructive to say?

blackpoolhibs
01-06-2014, 12:13 PM
I've not took the time or trouble To look up your previous but I can count on 1 or maybe 2 hands how many posters on here were against TB APPOINTMENT. So hindsight a wonderful thing you must have. RP thought he was doing right thing but all you supa dupa f cking experts knew better. But forgot to mention it at the time. git behind our team and stop the witchunt.

Its not or ever will be the fans job to appoint a manager, but it has been Petries job, a job he's been well paid for to appoint the RIGHT man for manager of Hibs.

Notice i said the right man, not the fans choice. We as fans dont have the same information that is given at the interviews, all we can go on is what we have seen these appointments do previously.

And previously Butcher has had around 18 years of very bad luck as a manager, and 18 months to 2 years where he's done well. Looking at this, how was the man anywhere near the job as manager of Hibs?

Captain Trips
01-06-2014, 04:53 PM
gotta say just in and my keeboard not working right so I going to ramble so many hyprocrotics on here unbelievable terry was a great appointment by RP BY 90 + PER CENT of this forum now cause we belly up it is now Rod's fault and if we suddenly get rid of Rod that will solve our problems what a load of pish. We have a great club and we don't need witch hunts lets all pull to- gether and get behind our team ffs

Firstly here is the info that Rod etc have that we do not:

Our budget to pay manager.
The contract info ie length left on manager contract who we may like to bring in.
A fair idea of what a manager is currently getting paid at their club.
The costs in compensation to get new manager.
Who is available out of contract if we do not ant to pay compensation.
Who have we looked at in past for interview.

Give us these tools and I bet you poll 100 folk you will likely have 100 different managers, when we are linked to managers then folk will choose from the linked ones in general I believe. Rod had all those tools and picked the wrong guy.

greenpaper55
01-06-2014, 05:02 PM
I was wrong and i admit it about Butcher but i'm no getting 100k a year for making that decision, he got it wrong he pays the price.