Back Butcher

[Django]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

[yeezus.]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him te

Butcher has done his job - he has a worse win rate than Colin Calderwood and got us relegated so no I won't back him.

[The Green Goblin]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

And a fine job he's done so far.

[Captain Trips]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

That is all irrelevant, we have been relegated when it was totally avoidable he should 100% be sacked.

[KWJ]

That is all irrelevant, we have been relegated when it was totally avoidable he should 100% be sacked.

Just like Mixu, Hughes, CC & Fenlon?

[Nailrod]

Back Butcher
7 posts. Says it all.

[Captain Trips]

Just like Mixu, Hughes, CC & Fenlon?

What have they to do with it? Butcher should be punted.

[Hibeesmad]

I'm fed up of saying after each manager has left "oh we should have kept him" when In fact it is the fans who are hounding them out. I personally would give Butcher another season, he's been in this position before and even though he just got us relegated I honestly believe he can at least get us back into the play offs. Just give him another season because backing our manager is crucial.

I still don't think we should have sacked Yogi but that's over with

[yeezus.]

I'm fed up of saying after each manager has left "oh we should have kept him" when In fact it is the fans who are hounding them out. I personally would give Butcher another season, he's been in this position before and even though he just got us relegated I honestly believe he can at least get us back into the play offs. Just give him another season because backing our manager is crucial.

I still don't think we should have sacked Yogi but that's over with

I agree 100%, things have taken a nosedive since then :agree:

[Hibeesmad]

I agree 100%, things have taken a nosedive since then :agree:

You look at the amount of goals we were scoring back then with players such as Bamba, Zemmama, Riordan, Liam Miller, Stokes etc and then you look where we are now..relegated with hardly any hope.

Yogi even had us playing in Europe

[Pete]

7 posts. Says it all.

Sometimes less is a lot, lot more.

[macd123]

I honestly believe we would have done better with no manager at all. The players would have done better just organising training themselves.

[Nailrod]

Sometimes less is a lot, lot more.What is the lot, lot more that you think I'm missing?

[Steve20]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

Even if we were all ok with Butcher staying, will he be allowed to bring in the players to have a chance at promotion?? I doubt it.

[MWHIBBIES]

You know things are really bad when people think Yogi was good :faf:

[Pete]

What is the lot, lot more that you think I'm missing?

It was a constructive post highlighting the positives in giving the manager more time. It's a lot, lot more supportive of the football club I love than a lot of the posts I have been reading recently.

I don't think anyone is in any doubt that Petrie should go in the near future (samurai fell on their sword for a lot less) but I'm not happy with the butcher debate being lumped in with the Petrie feeding frenzy. They are two separate issues as far as I'm concerned and I'm not sure we wouldn't be lumping the baby out with the bath water.

We all care and are worried about the present situation but why can't people just wait one bloody week to hear what this new CEO has to say? The collective still has the power and the guns will still be trained so what's the urgency to oust Petrie before this appointment. I think it's clear that the intensity will remain and the same questions will still be asked.

[HH81]

Even if we were all ok with Butcher staying, will he be allowed to bring in the players to have a chance at promotion?? I doubt it.

Steve,

What are you trying to say? Are you saying the club are not going out to try and regain top flight football? As bad as the club is at the moment I am sure this is going to be the number 1 aim?

ps. am not saying Butcher is the man to do this.

[Pete]

Even if we were all ok with Butcher staying, will he be allowed to bring in the players to have a chance at promotion?? I doubt it.

Yes. I really do.

LeeAnn built a strong relationship between the club and the fans at Motherwell and the successful mantra was "TRUST THE BOARD".

Petrie has to leave or totally convince us he has nothing to do with any decision making in order for this to happen at hibs.

I'm behind butcher but if I was Ms. Dempster, the first decision I would make would be to recommend that Petrie leaves immediately in the interest of unity. If she has control and wants results she has to be ruthless if she has such powers.

[TornadoHibby]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

Pathetic effort Jamie to destabilise rational thought of the typical fan who has watched the club slip from a comfortable league position under Pat Fenlon to relegation to the Championship with a match win % during his period in charge of less than 20%!

That happened with the same players that PF worked with enhanced the three loan signing of Mr Butchers choice in January! The quality of football or rather hoofball over that time was a disgrace and the deliberate refusal to play key top players such as Kevin Thomson due to "personal issues" and not injury or lack of match fitness when everyone knew that Thomson was fit but the he had "upset" Mf Butcher in some way was instrumental and significant in causing relegation!

The problems you allude to were the direct result of the selection by Mr Petrie of previous managers who were almost as incompetent as Mr Butcher or did you have a view on who else might have been responsible for that!?

[Slim Shady]

7 posts. Says it all.

Can you explain this please. Why does the number of posts any registered member make have any bearing on his opinion (everyone has one).

Whilst I may not agree with the post, at least he is being constructive in out darkest hour.

Strange!!

[banchoryhibs]

I was delighted when Butcher was appointed. A high profile apparently successful manager who apparently had the bottle to challenge Petrie's tight fisted ways.

What did we get? A man who has introduced a horrible horrible style of hoofball; who failed to take any of the many chances to preserve the club's top flight position; who failed to exploit the winter transfer window; who created a divided dressing room; who allowed his deputy to become involved in a continuous swearing match with folk sitting nearby and who failed to lead or inspire the tremendously loyal fan base.

Has he been back in front of he camera to properly apologise; to share his vision; to explain how he is going to turn things round; to say why he failed and why this won't be repeated? No he has not.

He's had his chance and failed miserably. He's lost our respect and trust.

If he had an ounce of integrity he would have resigned immediately, he did not.

He must go and he must take Petrie with him.

[TornadoHibby]

Can you explain this please. Why does the number of posts any registered member make have any bearing on his opinion (everyone has one).

Whilst I may not agree with the post, at least he is being constructive in out darkest hour.

Strange!!

Constructive! :faf: :faf: :faf:

[timewilltell]

Constructive! :faf: :faf: :faf:

If you care to try and understand what he's saying you might actuly see he is trying to be constructive. However your one of the lets just sack everyone with no plan of where we go from here brigade. He has the best interests of the club at heart,

What's your agenda?

[Lang Toun Hibs]

Simply no, sorry.

[Winston Ingram]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

I'm getting sick of this *****.

Another ridiculous post with no logic as to why we should give time to a man with a solid & consistent record of failure & awful football.

As for this bring in his own players nonsense. Any idiot with an understanding of the concept of management would recognise what a ridiculous notion that is.

[Forza Fred]

Butcher came in and turned a poorly performing team into pub team.

Thank dog he only had half a season to ruin them completely and get us relegated.

Imagine what carnage he can cause if we give him longer

[greenpaper55]

[QUOTE=J1875M;4039582]Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there[/QUOTE

:faf:aye right.

[RedHibby]

So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circle that has to stop.

[SON OF PADDY]

[QUOTE=RedHibby;4039702]So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circlethat has to stop.[/QUO
Your spot on mate
We simply can't afford to sack TB, MM, & SM
The compensation we pay out to sacked managers is Staggering
Think of the money that has been wasted in pay offs, when it should of been invested in the Team.
I would personally give Butcher next season with his own team.

[blackpoolhibs]

7 posts. Says it all.

:agree: :yw:

[TornadoHibby]

If you care to try and understand what he's saying you might actuly see he is trying to be constructive. However your one of the lets just sack everyone with no plan of where we go from here brigade. He has the best interests of the club at heart,

What's your agenda?

Very good whoever you are at Hibs! :rolleyes:

Here's a plan then! :agree:

Invite me to be part of the Group that Hibs sets up between Hibs and the fans to "bridge the current divide between Club & supporters" and I'll help you to get this ship running in a manner that the fans will be happy with! :agree:

Trust me, I'm a Hibs fan/supporter (you decide how you want to describe me) and I know that what I want, in short, to be entertained by my team at ER week in week out as I have experienced many times in my life as a Hibs supporter when I didn't think twice about coming out in all weathers all over the country to watch and support my team! :agree:

What's your history with Hibs by the way? :confused: :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Given the shambles he presided over, Butcher cannot be allowed the chance to make it worse.

All we were looking for was three points from 5 games. He chose to leave McPake and Thomson out of the team, and opted for Victorian tactics. The man is a fool.

I very much doubt if he's got the stomach to clear up the mess he's created.

[Green Fish]

TB is who we've got whether you and I like it or not. There is alot of uncertainty around us and the other 2 'bigger' teams and what type of, and calibre of player we will bring in.
If there is no marked improvements by around October TB will be gone imo. The team will get my full support as always.

[Russ]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there


100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

[WHUHibs]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

So are you saying those who don't back him are not real Hibs fans?

[The Leith Dutch]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

There is a major difference here and that's the difference between not being very good (Calderwood) or not performing well (Mixu) and what Butcher has done.

Butcher's performance here has been negligent and that's a very different thing.

The cost of relegation may well be our very club.

Yes Petrie has failed massively and yes many of the players have failed to perform but let's be absolutely clear about this - had Butcher displayed even a shred of competence we would not have been relegated.

For the record - I was not against his appointment originally but his performance in the job is completely and utterly unacceptable.

[Ronniekirk]

[QUOTE=RedHibby;4039702]So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circlethat has to stop.[/QUO
Your spot on mate
We simply can't afford to sack TB, MM, & SM
The compensation we pay out to sacked managers is Staggering
Think of the money that has been wasted in pay offs, when it should of been invested in the Team.
I would personally give Butcher next season with his own team.
Normally I would agree with that the question that is exercising a lot of people minds on here is that T B after a decent start took us into complete free fall and showed no managerial competence to get us one win that would have saved us from Relegation ,he looked clueless , lost confidence ,didn't handle the pressure ,Demotivated some players ,ruined our top scorer Craig who could of been the one to score goals ,making him captain was wrong decision ,playing him in defensive midfield wrong decision he brought back Harris too quick and then his on going poor man management of that player has been horrendous Have seen little tactical awareness or ability to pick right team .i could go on and on .
So people are right to question his ability and be concerned if he is the right person to take us forward based on his own performance to date .

With his own players we may see a difference but the players he had lined up May not now come and therefore he may have to look at different players now so even that isn't ideal .

For the record I thought it was the right management team to bring in at the time and his ability or his scouts ability to source unknowns from lower divisions in England for next to no money ,but who could make an impact meant you were potentially getting hungry players with a desire to succeed and better their careers instead of ageing pros who are after that last big contract .

But to try and pretend we can have total confidence in T B after what he has done to the Team isn't realistic IMO .Finances may well dictate we have no option but to stick with him and time will tellif that was right decision ,
But if he doesn't bring us straight back up do we give him another year ?

Lee Ann will at least bring a fresh perspective and one from the outside untainted by Petries Self Interests .Would love no know what her thoughts are at this point in time .

[Saorsa]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.:blah:

[3pm]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

Ha Ha Ha Ha!

[Saorsa]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from thereAnother new poster backing the current mess :hmmm:

[Russ]

Pathetic effort Jamie to destabilise rational thought of the typical fan who has watched the club slip from a comfortable league position under Pat Fenlon to relegation to the Championship with a match win % during his period in charge of less than 20%!

That happened with the same players that PF worked with enhanced the three loan signing of Mr Butchers choice in January! The quality of football or rather hoofball over that time was a disgrace and the deliberate refusal to play key top players such as Kevin Thomson due to "personal issues" and not injury or lack of match fitness when everyone knew that Thomson was fit but the he had "upset" Mf Butcher in some way was instrumental and significant in causing relegation!

The problems you allude to were the direct result of the selection by Mr Petrie of previous managers who were almost as incompetent as Mr Butcher or did you have a view on who else might have been responsible for that!?

Tell me what Thomson did on Sunday other than applaud the fans singing his name and missing a penalty? That prima donna should never have been allowed anywhere near our club after his last stint at the club.

[Winston Ingram]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

How old are you? 5?

[JustSimplyHibs]

Tell me what Thomson did on Sunday other than applaud the fans singing his name and missing a penalty? That prima donna should never have been allowed anywhere near our club after his last stint at the club.

He didnae hide :dunno: ... and what i mean by this is that he was asking for the ball (on the deck) and your lucky if he got on the pitch for 50mins.

And why should he be no-where near OUR club???? Cause he choose to make a decent living for himself and family out of a short career!!! Is that not the idea behind modern football???? No his fault OUR club lacks championship and cup winning ambitions and chooses to sell its best assets - which he at the time was.

[TornadoHibby]

Tell me what Thomson did on Sunday other than applaud the fans singing his name and missing a penalty? That prima donna should never have been allowed anywhere near our club after his last stint at the club.

Very unlike you to come out with stuff like that! :rolleyes:

Disappointed at a poor fishing attempt! :agree: :wink:

Happy to discuss - call me! :wink:

[TornadoHibby]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

I think that you underestimate the feeling amongst the "real fans" as you put it! :agree:

This definitley ain't no "noisy minority", rather it's those that sit in the stadium on match day week in week out and cannot believe what Mr Butcher has managed to do to our beloved club in such a relatively short period of time! :agree:

You know what I'm talking about but call me if you want to chat about it sensibly! :wink:

[Hibernia&Alba]

I said I would back Butcher if he kept us up and would then give him the chance to build his own team. He failed. In fact he failed to produce the solitary win from mid February that would have kept us up. He failed in a manner I didn't think possible. He should have resigned on principle last Sunday, but he also failed to do that. I have no confidence left regarding Butcher. GO NOW.

[TornadoHibby]

So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circle that has to stop.

Ask yer Boss as he was the guy who appointed all the duds over the past few years resulting in compensation pay offs when they had to be emptied before their contract expired as that was cheaper than allowing them to continue to possibly do what Mr Butcher managed to achieve in record time for a Hibs Manager, better even than Duff Jimmy IIRC! :rolleyes:

The vicious circle that has to stop relates to the process for identifying and appointing competent guys to manage the football side of the club without intervention from the Board about playing matters unless it is adversely affecting the Clubs finances and stability! Something that hasn't happened for years now!:agree:

Oops.....vicious circle - we're right back to where I started then! :wink:

[Captain Trips]

Fenlon with this team was manager for 11 SPL games so we had played every team we managed to be on 4 wins 3 draws and 4 losses that is 15pts. Even with this squad that is still 15pts. Terry with same squad managed from 23 SPL games 4 wins 7 draws and 12 loses that is 19pts.

Fenlon assembled an unacceptable squad Fenlons record was not acceptable either. Pat Fenlon can be blamed for giving Terry a really poor squad to choose from but what he cannot be blamed for is what Butcher subsequently did with this squad. If Terry even managed to match the manager he replaced then we were staying up, he didn't even need to be better all he needed to do was match him.

Lets stop looking what went on before Butcher he was required to win one more game than Fenlon did with an extra 12 games to do it including a round robin with other teams who had been having a bad season. Even managing 5 wins was still piss poor but that was enough. If he had even managed to match Fenlon whom he replaced so is therefore supposed to be better then he would have won about 7/8 games still piss poor but safe for fun.

So lets back a manager that cannot even match the one he replaced and its not even close he vastly underperformed. He had a window to tweak and it is irrelevant if there are 2 players available or 200, you sign people who will improve the team so if there are 2 available but are not good enough do not bother. He signed 3 turned out not good enough so thats dire also.

If that squad was capable of 4 wins from 11 with Fenlon in charge a better manager must surely have been able to get 5 wins from 23. There is no way with that record I wish somebody of that calibur the bricks to build.

[emerald green]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

Who are these "real fans"? Are they the ones who simply will not / cannot see what is staring them right in the face?

For the record, I'm a "real fan". Have been for a very long time, through thick and thin in all sorts of weather, on open terracing amongst old firm nutters etc, watching good teams and absolute ****** teams.

This one, under Butcher & Malpas, is by far and away the worst I've ever seen disgracing our famous jersey. At any other club his feet wouldn't have touched the floor on his way out the door. It's truly shocking what has happened at HFC, and Butcher must take his share of the responsibility.

I believe the only reason he can still be there is because of financial reasons, not footballing ones.

I will back Hibs to the end. I won't back Butcher, and neither will many other Hibs "real fans". That's why he has to go.

[Ronniekirk]

So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circle that has to stop.
Agree it's a vicious circle that has to stop .But it has to stop with the right Manager and on performance over the past few months the question rightly being asked is , Is T B that Man I think he should spent some tome with that Psychologist he brought in and do some Gestalt Therapy and be honest with himself why he ****ed up and be clear the job isn't too big for him because if he stays and doesn't bring us straight back up those questions won't go away and will undermine him. He has gone from someone's who looked like he was a strong leader with Charisma to a broken man talking about log jams He placed far too Mutch onus on the young players who ultimately on there own found the pressure too great and even Stanton's form tailed off as is to be expected with young players .

[Hibernia&Alba]

Who are these "real fans"? Are they the ones who simply will not / cannot see what is staring them right in the face?

For the record, I'm a "real fan". Have been for a very long time, through thick and thin in all sorts of weather, on open terracing amongst old firm nutters etc, watching good teams and absolute ****** teams.

This one, under Butcher & Malpas, is by far and away the worst I've ever seen disgracing our famous jersey. At any other club his feet wouldn't have touched the floor on his way out the door. It's truly shocking what has happened at HFC, and Butcher must take his share of the responsibility.

I believe the only reason he can still be there is because of financial reasons, not footballing ones.

I will back Hibs to the end. I won't back Butcher, and neither will many other Hibs "real fans". That's why he has to go.

Good post, EG. Fully agree.

[Saorsa]

Who are these "real fans"? Are they the ones who simply will not / cannot see what is staring them right in the face?

For the record, I'm a "real fan". Have been for a very long time, through thick and thin in all sorts of weather, on open terracing amongst old firm nutters etc, watching good teams and absolute ****** teams.

This one, under Butcher & Malpas, is by far and away the worst I've ever seen disgracing our famous jersey. At any other club his feet wouldn't have touched the floor on his way out the door. It's truly shocking what has happened at HFC, and Butcher must take his share of the responsibility.

I believe the only reason he can still be there is because of financial reasons, not footballing ones.

I will back Hibs to the end. I won't back Butcher, and neither will many other Hibs "real fans". That's why he has to go.he's a troll. :agree:

[TornadoHibby]

So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circle that has to stop.

Was that the "listen to your customers because without the customer support the business won't prosper" lesson that RP heeded or did he just react because he didn't have a better way of dealing with disaster as the Chairman and CEO rather than what the fans proposed! :confused:

Need to look around "the house" for those responsible for where Hibs are right now mate! :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with the fans! :wink:

[emerald green]

Good post, EG. Fully agree.

Thanks H&A. :aok:

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=RedHibby;4039702]So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circlethat has to stop.[/QUO
Your spot on mate
We simply can't afford to sack TB, MM, & SM
The compensation we pay out to sacked managers is Staggering
Think of the money that has been wasted in pay offs, when it should of been invested in the Team.
I would personally give Butcher next season with his own team.

Butcher should not be sacked.

He should have the dignity and self respect to resign.


:cb

[emerald green]

he's a troll. :agree:

He must be Saorsa.

[DH1875]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy minority won't.

LOL.

Butcher can do one. If that don't sit right with some folks, then tough duckies. I'd have given Yogi and Mixu more time. JC should never have gone when he did and even Fenlon should have seen the season and his contract out. Butcher though, like I said, he can do one.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Please I am hanging on for some hope here, all these Butcher backers give some evidence on why we should keep him? All I hear is give him time, give him his own players, sorry that is not evidence that is just more miss judged hope. Also if you look at his whole career is record is abysmal.

I hate the manager merry go round as much as the next person but you have to have something that you see that gives the confidence he can turn it around. I have seen nothing in his 6 months on why we should! If he has a bad start and we get rid in Oct and we start the cycle again. We have a fresh start now!

if you have seen something please let us into the secret.:confused:

[WHUHibs]

Please I am hanging on for some hope here, all these Butcher backers give some evidence on why we should keep him? All I hear is give him time, give him his own players, sorry that is not evidence that is just more miss judged hope. Also if you look at his whole career is record is abysmal.

I hate the manager merry go round as much as the next person but you have to have something that you see that gives the confidence he can turn it around. I have seen nothing in his 6 months on why we should! If he has a bad start and we get rid in Oct and we start the cycle again. We have a fresh start now!

if you have seen something please let us into the secret.:confused:

Funnily enough I think he will turn it round,,don't know why, don't have a source, perhaps it's blind faith..I would love to look back on this post and say I told you so :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

Please I am hanging on for some hope here, all these Butcher backers give some evidence on why we should keep him? All I hear is give him time, give him his own players, sorry that is not evidence that is just more miss judged hope. Also if you look at his whole career is record is abysmal.

I hate the manager merry go round as much as the next person but you have to have something that you see that gives the confidence he can turn it around. I have seen nothing in his 6 months on why we should! If he has a bad start and we get rid in Oct and we start the cycle again. We have a fresh start now!

if you have seen something please let us into the secret.:confused:

There is nothing it is 100% sheer hope of the same we would have if we had a new manager this morning. He should after 6/7 months be past the hope stage.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Funnily enough I think he will turn it round,,don't know why, don't have a source, perhaps it's blind faith..I would love to look back on this post and say I told you so :greengrin
Believe me so do I

[Devilstorment]

I still support Butcher. His signing in the off season will impact further though...

[Hibernia&Alba]

I still support Butcher. His signing in the off season will impact further though...

On what basis do you still support him?

[Greencore]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there
I agree. I will back butcher, however we will fail until Petrie is out of here. Petrie won't back butcher with funds. Hence he will fail.

[Seven up]

I loved TB when he came in.... Said all the right things, in his own words" immersed himself in the clubs History" etc.... BUT..... His record is Horrible and he should have resigned...

[TornadoHibby]

[QUOTE=SON OF PADDY;4039744]

Butcher should not be sacked.

He should have the dignity and self respect to resign.


:cb

:top marks

Great post! :agree:

[highland hibbee]

Which Strachan did at Middlesborough , not many others I can think of though





You know things are really bad when people think Yogi was good :faf:


[QUOTE=SON OF PADDY;4039744]

Butcher should not be sacked.

He should have the dignity and self respect to resign.


Which, Strachan did at Middlesborough

:cb

[--------]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there


http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Uuqry9SMjQM/hqdefault.jpg

[Heedersnvolleys]

I agree. I will back butcher, however we will fail until Petrie is out of here. Petrie won't back butcher with funds. Hence he will fail.
Sorry but that is nonsense, that as what his supporters keep bring up what achieved at ICT with a fraction of our budget is a positive, so even if he is not backed if he is as good as people make out he will still be a success according to some. I personally put it down to a bit of luck.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry but that is nonsense, that as what his supporters keep bring up what achieved at ICT with a fraction of our budget is a positive, so even if he is not backed if he is as good as people make out he will still be a success according to some. I personally put it down to a bit of luck.

Given his mixed fortunes elsewhere, you could have a point. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

[Albanian Hibs]

The stench from this thread is unbearable.

[Devilstorment]

On what basis do you still support him?

I think from the word go at Hibs he has identified changes to the team are needed. I think he let players know too early that they weren't in his plans which resulted in half assed performances from said players, this was his big mistake which caused us to get relegated. A mistake but not one he should lose his job over imo

It sounds like he already has some idea of who he needs to get in to improve the team. Lets see who he brings in and then judge him.

Also, its worth remembering the entire nation could have told us that without griffiths the season before we would have been in trouble. That came round to bite us squarely in the arse as we failed in our attempts to bring in a goal scorer. THAT has been our biggest issue this last season, we could not score goals. I don't think that is Terry's fault, that is the scouts (if we have any!), Fenlon and Petrie's fault (the fact we let Doyle leave, who had scored a few, despite knowing we might not have Leigh emphasises this)

[Heedersnvolleys]

I agree. I will back butcher, however we will fail until Petrie is out of here. Petrie won't back butcher with funds. Hence he will fail.
To honest I think it is exactly the opposite, Petrie saw it as positive that someone like TB was willing to work and to some degree get a bit success with a very limited budget so he rather than succumbing to the preference of the fans he actually thought TB had the qualities Petrie likes budget saver!

[Heedersnvolleys]

I think from the word go at Hibs he has identified changes to the team are needed. I think he let players know too early that they weren't in his plans which resulted in half assed performances from said players, this was his big mistake which caused us to get relegated. A mistake but not one he should lose his job over imo

It sounds like he already has some idea of who he needs to get in to improve the team. Lets see who he brings in and then judge him.

Also, its worth remembering the entire nation could have told us that without griffiths the season before we would have been in trouble. That came round to bite us squarely in the arse as we failed in our attempts to bring in a goal scorer. THAT has been our biggest issue this last season, we could not score goals. I don't think that is Terry's fault, that is the scouts (if we have any!), Fenlon and Petrie's fault (the fact we let Doyle leave, who had scored a few, despite knowing we might not have Leigh emphasises this)
It's TB's fault he never addressed that in Jan

[Bobby's Cinema]

Given the shambles he presided over, Butcher cannot be allowed the chance to make it worse.

All we were looking for was three points from 5 games. He chose to leave McPake and Thomson out of the team, and opted for Victorian tactics. The man is a fool.

I very much doubt if he's got the stomach to clear up the mess he's created.
:agree: 100%. Even in this early doors clearout there is cause for concern, although it will be largely down to Pat and his longer term contracts for the worst players at the club, cheers Pat :aok:

[Devilstorment]

It's TB's fault he never addressed that in Jan

Yeah to a degree, but I think it would be harder than it looks mid season to sort something. You can sign free transfers whenever you like, so obviously Butcher didn't think any out there could improve the team. That leaves Loans and Buying players. Loans are a risk, no team will let a proven goal scorer walk out for a 6 month loan (except Wolves haha!) buying players comes squarely round to Mr R Petrie...

[Captain Trips]

I think from the word go at Hibs he has identified changes to the team are needed. I think he let players know too early that they weren't in his plans which resulted in half assed performances from said players, this was his big mistake which caused us to get relegated. A mistake but not one he should lose his job over imo

It sounds like he already has some idea of who he needs to get in to improve the team. Lets see who he brings in and then judge him.

Also, its worth remembering the entire nation could have told us that without griffiths the season before we would have been in trouble. That came round to bite us squarely in the arse as we failed in our attempts to bring in a goal scorer. THAT has been our biggest issue this last season, we could not score goals. I don't think that is Terry's fault, that is the scouts (if we have any!), Fenlon and Petrie's fault (the fact we let Doyle leave, who had scored a few, despite knowing we might not have Leigh emphasises this)

First part in bold: He knew change was required, He identified we had crap players that needed changed kind of obvious was it not something any manager with eyes would also have noticed.

Second part in bold: He made a mistake that caused relegation but shouldnt lose job, therefore if he hadnt told the players not needed your point suggests we wouldnt have got relegated? But you want to keep him even though he then from your perspective caused an avoidable relegation?

[southern hibby]

I'm I'n favour of butcher going. He's got a massive re-building job to do. Can this realistically be done when he has the World Cup to attend. Also is he taking a break with the family?
Let's not hide the facts here, Butcher got us relegated ( granted with Fenlon's players). If Butcher feels he has to go to Brazil rather than rebuild a team that's fine and who I'n Hibs sanctioned to allow him to go? But I feel we need someone who will be 100% behind team building, players signatures etc etc etc.

GGTTH

[Devilstorment]

First part in bold: He knew change was required, He identified we had crap players that needed changed kind of obvious was it not something any manager with eyes would also have noticed.

Second part in bold: He made a mistake that caused relegation but shouldnt lose job, therefore if he hadnt told the players not needed your point suggests we wouldnt have got relegated? But you want to keep him even though he then from your perspective caused an avoidable relegation?


Yes,

I doubt even he would have though the team was so bereft of professionalism that that would happen. He probably took a calculated gamble and decency to tell the players early and be up front with them one. In January relegation was not even on the cards, we were potentially going to scrape the top 6. I doubt anyone would have thought that it would have happened so cataclysmically!

[Russ]

First part in bold: He knew change was required, He identified we had crap players that needed changed kind of obvious was it not something any manager with eyes would also have noticed.

Second part in bold: He made a mistake that caused relegation but shouldnt lose job, therefore if he hadnt told the players not needed your point suggests we wouldnt have got relegated? But you want to keep him even though he then from your perspective caused an avoidable relegation?
Fenlon's fannies got us relegated, no one else. I wonder if McGivern and co were swigging champagne like they were after the Kilmarnock game

[The Green Goblin]

So, we get rid of Petrie and Butcher, what next? Butcher will require a payoff so we will have less money to strengthen/rebuild the team which could make it very difficult to come back up at the first attempt. It was the fans that shouted to get PF out and TB in. We got what we wanted and now we want another Manager in. How long will the next one get? Perhaps he will be allowed to lose a few games and then we will be shouting to get him out as well. It is a vicious circle that has to stop.

Many fans wanted Butcher but since he came in he has taken us from 5th to relegation. It was completely avoidable. He has been dreadful. Are you sayin that we should hang on to one of the statistically worst Hibs managers ever because it will cost money to get rid of him? He should have resigned. St. mirren got rid of Lennon and he kept them up!!!

[Captain Trips]

Butcher has nowhere to hide with this situation any poor result he will get it tight. This league is going to be difficult we will lose games no matter who is at club however the atmosphere and the baggage will be 10x worse if we lost under TB and he can only really blame himself for that.

We need a total clean slate now. I believe any new manager no matter who would have far more support than Butcher is going to have, I just do not see Butcher staying being conducive to us being successful.

[Gordy M]

Im a bit torn on Butcher, RP i think should go, as he is, at best, dividing the support and probably more than that is turning large sections against the club, which is no good going forward.

I wasnt sure Butcher was a good appointment, and was kinda shot down for saying so at the time. We have many posters on here saying that we cannot attract a certain calibre of player in the first division and if thats true, what kind of manager will we end up with? The reason i say that, and im sure someone will correct me, but Butcher will be the only manager in the Championship that has got a team promoted from that division, and i assume he will know what is required? Maybe the championship is his level? That being said his record so far is awful and maybe he just doesnt have the wherewithall to sort it out?

If someone can tell me that we could attract a Billy Davies, Steve Clarke etc then id be all for a change but im not sure that will happen!

I suppose i just think that this whole thing needs to be sorted in the next 7 days so we can move forward to building a team for this season.

[MrSmith]

Categorically NO!

We need change from top to bottom, no stone should be left unturned to oust all underachievers!

[TornadoHibby]

I think from the word go at Hibs he has identified changes to the team are needed. I think he let players know too early that they weren't in his plans which resulted in half assed performances from said players, this was his big mistake which caused us to get relegated. A mistake but not one he should lose his job over imo

He orchestrated the relegation of the Club from the SPFL yet he shouldn't lose his job as a result of that gross dereliction of duty, negligence and downright incompetence! :rolleyes:

Wow! Huge amount of material there for a psychoanlyst! :wink:


It sounds like he already has some idea of who he needs to get in to improve the team. Lets see who he brings in and then judge him.

Evidence to support this fairy story please with names, stage of negotiations, likely costs and has RP sanctioned each and every new player deal? :rolleyes::rolleyes:



Also, its worth remembering the entire nation could have told us that without griffiths the season before we would have been in trouble. That came round to bite us squarely in the arse as we failed in our attempts to bring in a goal scorer. THAT has been our biggest issue this last season, we could not score goals. I don't think that is Terry's fault, that is the scouts (if we have any!), Fenlon and Petrie's fault (the fact we let Doyle leave, who had scored a few, despite knowing we might not have Leigh emphasises this)

So could Terry not have got offensive players capable of scoring goals in January from that vast scouting network that the GK "coach" purports to have? :confused:

Aberdeen amongst others managed to do just that quite well! :agree: :wink:

[Captain Trips]

Fenlon's fannies got us relegated, no one else. I wonder if McGivern and co were swigging champagne like they were after the Kilmarnock game

From my earlier post:

Fenlon with this team was manager for 11 SPL games so we had played every team we managed to be on 4 wins 3 draws and 4 losses that is 15pts. Even with this squad that is still 15pts. Terry with same squad managed from 23 SPL games 4 wins 7 draws and 12 loses that is 19pts.

Fenlon assembled an unacceptable squad Fenlons record was not acceptable either. Pat Fenlon can be blamed for giving Terry a really poor squad to choose from but what he cannot be blamed for is what Butcher subsequently did with this squad. If Terry even managed to match the manager he replaced then we were staying up, he didn't even need to be better all he needed to do was match him.

Lets stop looking what went on before Butcher he was required to win one more game than Fenlon did with an extra 12 games to do it including a round robin with other teams who had been having a bad season. Even managing 5 wins was still piss poor but that was enough. If he had even managed to match Fenlon whom he replaced so is therefore supposed to be better then he would have won about 7/8 games still piss poor but safe for fun.

So lets back a manager that cannot even match the one he replaced and its not even close he vastly underperformed. He had a window to tweak and it is irrelevant if there are 2 players available or 200, you sign people who will improve the team so if there are 2 available but are not good enough do not bother. He signed 3 turned out not good enough so thats dire also.

If that squad was capable of 4 wins from 11 with Fenlon in charge a better manager must surely have been able to get 5 wins from 23. There is no way with that record I wish somebody of that calibur the bricks to build.

[Forza Fred]

Isn't it interesting that a lot of posters with low numbers support Butcher?

LTYF

[TornadoHibby]

From my earlier post:

Fenlon with this team was manager for 11 SPL games so we had played every team we managed to be on 4 wins 3 draws and 4 losses that is 15pts. Even with this squad that is still 15pts. Terry with same squad managed from 23 SPL games 4 wins 7 draws and 12 loses that is 19pts.

Fenlon assembled an unacceptable squad Fenlons record was not acceptable either. Pat Fenlon can be blamed for giving Terry a really poor squad to choose from but what he cannot be blamed for is what Butcher subsequently did with this squad. If Terry even managed to match the manager he replaced then we were staying up, he didn't even need to be better all he needed to do was match him.

Lets stop looking what went on before Butcher he was required to win one more game than Fenlon did with an extra 12 games to do it including a round robin with other teams who had been having a bad season. Even managing 5 wins was still piss poor but that was enough. If he had even managed to match Fenlon whom he replaced so is therefore supposed to be better then he would have won about 7/8 games still piss poor but safe for fun.

So lets back a manager that cannot even match the one he replaced and its not even close he vastly underperformed. He had a window to tweak and it is irrelevant if there are 2 players available or 200, you sign people who will improve the team so if there are 2 available but are not good enough do not bother. He signed 3 turned out not good enough so thats dire also.

If that squad was capable of 4 wins from 11 with Fenlon in charge a better manager must surely have been able to get 5 wins from 23. There is no way with that record I wish somebody of that calibur the bricks to build.

Those that can see what the current problems actually are are being hounded in an effort to persuade the "typical" Hibs fans, whatever the hell that means, to go with the current Hibs party line which is to allow Butcher to stay in post when all the evidence suggests he will only continue to do what he did last season and we know what happened there! :agree:

Wasting your time replying as am I as the "plan" appears to be cast in stone! :rolleyes:

It's make yer own minds up time though people! :agree:

[The Leith Dutch]

From my earlier post:

Fenlon with this team was manager for 11 SPL games so we had played every team we managed to be on 4 wins 3 draws and 4 losses that is 15pts. Even with this squad that is still 15pts. Terry with same squad managed from 23 SPL games 4 wins 7 draws and 12 loses that is 19pts.

Fenlon assembled an unacceptable squad Fenlons record was not acceptable either. Pat Fenlon can be blamed for giving Terry a really poor squad to choose from but what he cannot be blamed for is what Butcher subsequently did with this squad. If Terry even managed to match the manager he replaced then we were staying up, he didn't even need to be better all he needed to do was match him.

Lets stop looking what went on before Butcher he was required to win one more game than Fenlon did with an extra 12 games to do it including a round robin with other teams who had been having a bad season. Even managing 5 wins was still piss poor but that was enough. If he had even managed to match Fenlon whom he replaced so is therefore supposed to be better then he would have won about 7/8 games still piss poor but safe for fun.

So lets back a manager that cannot even match the one he replaced and its not even close he vastly underperformed. He had a window to tweak and it is irrelevant if there are 2 players available or 200, you sign people who will improve the team so if there are 2 available but are not good enough do not bother. He signed 3 turned out not good enough so thats dire also.

If that squad was capable of 4 wins from 11 with Fenlon in charge a better manager must surely have been able to get 5 wins from 23. There is no way with that record I wish somebody of that calibur the bricks to build.

Couldn't agree more.

This isn't about Fenlon;
It isn't about whether we think the current squad of players are good enough for Hibs;
It isn't about gelling or needing your own players;

It's about the fact that we had a squad that would never have been relegation material had it been managed in a fashion that wasn't negligent in the extreme.

[yeezus.]

Can you explain this please. Why does the number of posts any registered member make have any bearing on his opinion (everyone has one).

Whilst I may not agree with the post, at least he is being constructive in out darkest hour.

Strange!!

I like your username but every time I read or hear Slim Shady I say "braindead like Jim Brady"...

I think there's a few Yams on here and they are more likely to have 7 posts than 700 if you catch my drift?

[greenlex]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

[matty_f]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

That's where I am as well.:agree:

[Devilstorment]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.


agreed

[eggbamyasi]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

Also agree . Oh look a few people with thousands of posts thinking slightly differently from the unbelievably screamy guys who if you dont totally 100% agree, your a yam or a secret agent from rod petries board room lmfao .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[Devilstorment]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.


Petrie is the only constant over the slow degradation of our club. There is no way that this revolving door of management that we have at the moment is all down to incompetent managers. Why add one more casualty to the ever growing list. Get Petrie out and give Butcher a chance to sort out this mess

[Russ]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

That would satisfy the majority of the support.

[Devilstorment]

Also agree . Oh look a few people with thousands of posts thinking slightly differently from the unbelievably screamy guys who if you dont totally 100% agree, your a yam or a secret agent from rod petries board room lmfao .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


:wink:

[greenlex]

Petrie is the only constant over the slow degradation of our club. There is no way that this revolving door of management that we have at the moment is all down to incompetent managers. Why add one more casualty to the ever growing list. Get Petrie out and give Butcher a chance to sort out this messAgreed. Butcher and his team are successful in our league in relative terms. Every other manager we have had since the very successful Mowbray years has been a punt.Butcher had little or no money to change things in January. He tried to release some by getting players that were not in his plans to move on. Some did and some didn't. We brought in inexpensive players on loans short term to try and freshen things up. There is a massive clear out that would still be happening even if we had stayed up. They must be given the chance to rebuild. They can do it. Petries time was up a couple of years ago after the East was built. That was the time for someone like Leanne Dempster.

[One Day Soon]

I'm getting sick of this *****.

Another ridiculous post with no logic as to why we should give time to a man with a solid & consistent record of failure & awful football.

As for this bring in his own players nonsense. Any idiot with an understanding of the concept of management would recognise what a ridiculous notion that is.

You're quite right apart from the fact that you're wrong. But hey let's make everything black and white in our anger, this isn't the time for sober reflection.

[One Day Soon]

There is a major difference here and that's the difference between not being very good (Calderwood) or not performing well (Mixu) and what Butcher has done.

Butcher's performance here has been negligent and that's a very different thing.

The cost of relegation may well be our very club.

Yes Petrie has failed massively and yes many of the players have failed to perform but let's be absolutely clear about this - had Butcher displayed even a shred of competence we would not have been relegated.

For the record - I was not against his appointment originally but his performance in the job is completely and utterly unacceptable.


How is that exactly? Would Collins suddenly have started scoring goals?

[Nailrod]

Can you explain this please. Why does the number of posts any registered member make have any bearing on his opinion (everyone has one)... Whilst I may not agree with the post, at least he is being constructive in out darkest hour... Strange!!

Ok Slim, let me explain to you.

If I was a yamfud with a hibs.net ID and a posting history of 7 posts, this is what I would do.

I would post a ridiculous thread called 'Back Butcher' and then wait to see what happened. I wouldn't bother ever responding to any of the replies on my own thread, raising an issue that I thought was so important that I had started a thread about it. Why should I? I'd be too busy with my mates down the pub, laughing like a drain... "Hey guys, I posted a thread called as close as you could get to "Back door Butcher", and the Hobos are still slavering over it.

If anybody called me out as a yamfud I would post this post that you've posted with my other ID, just to add to my fun. And I wouldn't comment again with my other ID either. I would be having too much fun.

Enjoy.

Like Blackpool Hibs said. Both of them.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Petrie is the only constant over the slow degradation of our club. There is no way that this revolving door of management that we have at the moment is all down to incompetent managers. Why add one more casualty to the ever growing list. Get Petrie out and give Butcher a chance to sort out this mess

I agree you that Petrie is a constant and can't pick a manager and I think that is all it is he constantly picks bad managers or managers not up to managing Hibs. My reason for saying that is that none of our past managers have done anything of note since. PF will go back and manage at his level, mixu could not get another club gig, yogi I think may get found out again this year and Collins as also tried and failed. But a majority of the players have went on found the previous Hibs form again and I think we find the exact same this season with players we have released. None of the managers have.

[One Day Soon]

First part in bold: He knew change was required, He identified we had crap players that needed changed kind of obvious was it not something any manager with eyes would also have noticed.

Second part in bold: He made a mistake that caused relegation but shouldnt lose job, therefore if he hadnt told the players not needed your point suggests we wouldnt have got relegated? But you want to keep him even though he then from your perspective caused an avoidable relegation?

You mean like Calderwood and Fenlon failed to do?

[TornadoHibby]

Petrie is the only constant over the slow degradation of our club. There is no way that this revolving door of management that we have at the moment is all down to incompetent managers. Why add one more casualty to the ever growing list. Get Petrie out and give Butcher a chance to sort out this mess

Just keep spouting your wish list and don't bother giving us any justification for your confidence that it will be delivered fully and successfully by Mr Butcher! :rolleyes:

I did try to get you to "spill the beans" earlier on another thread but you've either not seen my post or chosen to ignore it! :wink:

[JimBHibees]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

I would agree with that.

[matty_f]

Just keep spouting your wish list and don't bother giving us any justification for your confidence that it will be delivered fully and successfully by Mr Butcher! :rolleyes:

I did try to get you to "spill the beans" earlier on another thread but you've either not seen my post or chosen to ignore it! :wink:

Can you name a manager where you can justify the confidence in them doing what needs to be delivered?

[Heedersnvolleys]

You mean like Calderwood and Fenlon failed to do?
You conveniently ignored his second paragraph.

And yes any manager would have to have the clear out butcher has done purely down to the situation we find ourselves in, I think I is more down to financial situation more than anything. Christ even I would have done what he as done and I can't get out of the conference on FM :cb.

the easy bit has been done he has told the OOC players to bolt he has not even dealt with the players in contract yet but he has the most difficult task to come which rebuilding us and I don't think he is up to it.

[One Day Soon]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.


On balance I'm coming round to that point of view as well.

Wait, what's happening to me? Even as I type my scarf is turning maroon and white AND I've suddenly noticed I'm employed by Hibs. Because I can't possibly be a .netter who doesn't have a low post count and who thinks that we have limited range of financial choices here....

[One Day Soon]

You conveniently ignored his second paragraph.

And yes any manager would have to have the clear out butcher has done purely down to the situation we find ourselves in, I think I is more down to financial situation more than anything. Christ even I would have done what he as done and I can't get out of the conference on FM :cb.

the easy bit has been done he has told the OOC players to bolt he has even dealt with the players in contract yet but he has the most difficult task yet which rebuilding us and I don't think he is up to it.


I didn't ignore it, I merely pointed out that contrary to what he was saying neither Fenlon nor Calderwood did seem to appreciate that the squad needed emptying. Butcher did.

You might be right and he might not be up to it. Given the cost of emptying him, what he managed at ICT (after he had made a lot of mistakes earlier in his managerial career I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he learned from those and ICT got the value of that) and that fact that we do not yet know whether with a blank sheet of paper he might be able to put a winning and attractive team on the park - I'm for keeping him.

Particularly if Dempsey can make peace (see what I did there?) and Petrie is sidelined or emptied.

[Captain Trips]

You mean like Calderwood and Fenlon failed to do?

How did Fenlon and Calderwood fail to notice we needed new players? did they sign nobody? No. They signed plenty of folk first chance they got pity the ones they thought would improve were no better. Calderwood and Fenlon didnt fail to notice they didnt do a good enough job of sorting.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/colin-calderwood-confident-his-new-signings-1093742

Thit is CC failing to notice we needed players. Nobody said any were good I stated TB noticing we needed changed is nothing. Add to that first chance Fenlon got he signed several in the January window all turning out to be pretty bad. So yeah any managers with eyes holds true.

[magnificent_seven]

7 posts. Says it all.

I agree 100% with the OP and I have a couple of thousand more posts. I'm certainly no jambo or club insider.

[Devilstorment]

Just keep spouting your wish list and don't bother giving us any justification for your confidence that it will be delivered fully and successfully by Mr Butcher! :rolleyes:

I did try to get you to "spill the beans" earlier on another thread but you've either not seen my post or chosen to ignore it! :wink:


I have listed why I have confidence in Butcher above, read it rather than post things purely to try and bait me.

[TornadoHibby]

Can you name a manager where you can justify the confidence in them doing what needs to be delivered?

No, but then I wouldn't come on here telling people that I felt that he would deliver what was needed when I actually didn't have a clue in reality!

I thought that you "ignored" me too! :wink:

[One Day Soon]

How did Fenlon and Calderwood fail to notice we needed new players? did they sign nobody? No. They signed plenty of folk first chance they got pity the ones they thought would improve were no better. Calderwood and Fenlon didnt fail to notice they didnt do a good enough job of sorting.

You state that any manager would have noticed that we had crap players who needed to be changed. You give Butcher no allowance for the fact that the players at his disposal were as you agree, crap. Then you discount the fact that Fenlon and Calderwood largely replaced crap players with more crap players. He is half way through he surgical job required and he's already been vastly more radical with that than pretty much any of his predecessors.

The current manager inherited a terminally weak squad and a disfunctional dressing room at the wrong end of five years or more of poor player investment choices, lack of discipline and frankly appalling training and fitness regimes. He might or might not not be the right manager for us but in a climate where our finances just tanked I'd say that putting meager resources into the player budget rather than putting them into changing management team - again - makes a lot more sense.

[07BigD]

You state that any manager would have noticed that we had crap players who needed to be changed. You give Butcher no allowance for the fact that the players at his disposal were as you agree, crap. Then you discount the fact that Fenlon and Calderwood largely replaced crap players with more crap players. He is half way through he surgical job required and he's already been vastly more radical with that than pretty much any of his predecessors.

The current manager inherited a terminally weak squad and a disfunctional dressing room at the wrong end of five years or more of poor player investment choices, lack of discipline and frankly appalling training and fitness regimes. He might or might not not be the right manager for us but in a climate where our finances just tanked I'd say that putting meager resources into the player budget rather than putting them into changing management team - again - makes a lot more sense.

All I want to see is a committed winning team on the park, can Butcher deliver this? I'm not sure

[TornadoHibby]

I have listed why I have confidence in Butcher above, read it rather than post things purely to try and bait me.

I have no desire to "bait you". Without trawling back through threads, I don't believe you have offered any tangibly sensible or approriate reason to promote the current manager to have earned the right to manage in 2014/15 following his horrific performance in 2013/14. :hmmm:

However, you did offer some "reasons" in one post to which I replied here (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?284834-Back-Butcher&p=4040062&viewfull=1#post4040062) but I haven't seen you replying to my thoughts on your comments. :dunno: :hmmm:

Fancy offering some supporting information of is it just another wish list without foundation or justification? :dunno:

[JJP]

I'm usually one who wants to back the manager but I don't know if I can forgive what Butcher has done to this club in his short time here.

[Captain Trips]

You state that any manager would have noticed that we had crap players who needed to be changed. You give Butcher no allowance for the fact that the players at his disposal were as you agree, crap. Then you discount the fact that Fenlon and Calderwood largely replaced crap players with more crap players. He is half way through he surgical job required and he's already been vastly more radical with that than pretty much any of his predecessors.

The current manager inherited a terminally weak squad and a disfunctional dressing room at the wrong end of five years or more of poor player investment choices, lack of discipline and frankly appalling training and fitness regimes. He might or might not not be the right manager for us but in a climate where our finances just tanked I'd say that putting meager resources into the player budget rather than putting them into changing management team - again - makes a lot more sense.

Again as I have already stated the team was crap he made it worse therfore why would I want him as a manager? The last 2/3/4 years is totally irrelevant when he took over from Pat Fenlon from day one he took over a team that had won 4 matches from 11 with Pat Fenlon deemed not good enough, he then took that team and managed to make it worse it is that simple. He didnt improve it he didnt consolidate it he made it worse and by a good bit.

Petrie is irrelevant, Calderwood is irrelevant, If butcher started the season then no marker would have been put down so we might always have thought Butcher could do no better, however Fenlon getting 11 games is key to show exactly with same resources and one window that Butcher relegated us with his decisions both with the players and tactically.

[The Leith Dutch]

"had Butcher displayed even a shred of competence we would not have been relegated."
How is that exactly? Would Collins suddenly have started scoring goals?


We did not get relegated because Collins couldn't score goals.
Clearly it was one of a number of contributing factors but, and this is the key point, none of them were addressed by Butcher and many of them he exacerbated.

As for the Collins not scoring issue - without for a moment suggesting I think Collins is a player I want to keep at Hibs I'd suggest he hasn't exactly been given the oppportunity to shine.

Had we had players passing in to him from advanced midfield positions with some sort of regularity he may have been capable of a similar amount of goals to the generally equally poor strikers in the other bottom 6 teams.

Instead we had Nelson and McGivern shelling the ball at him from 60 yards away with no striking partner to run on to it were he to win it and none of our midfield close enough to challenge for the second ball when his admittedly poor control led to the ball pinging off him.

It was a "tactic" with a low chance of him getting the ball to begin with and one which left us no options on the rare occassions he did get the touch.
I watched it not work for, what 20 odd games?

A competent manager would not allow the same mistake to happen twenty or thirty times every game for twenty games on the spin - he would change it.
We gave away possession in an obvious, predictable and resolvable way.

So it's clear - I'm not saying Collins is a good player but his previous record suggests that played in a competent set up he's no worse than the striking options of the other teams that managed to pass us in the last five fixtures (Boyd excepted).

This is the root of the problem and why I think Butcher is incompetent - the players he had (without excusing their role in our relegation) were, even to a cynical assessment, no worse than those of the other teams.

Allowing four equally poor squads to all get ahead of us is a failure that has to be laid at Butcher's door.

[matty_f]

No, but then I wouldn't come on here telling people that I felt that he would deliver what was needed when I actually didn't have a clue in reality!

I thought that you "ignored" me too! :wink:

I've never once (to my recollection) said I "ignored" you, I wish I could but as a site admin I don't have that luxury. More's the pity.

Indeed, I'm fairly certain that it was you that stated you were ignoring me previously. Go figure.

[Baader]

Cannot back butcher as I have no faith in him. He was not able to bring in players to what was a very poor squad. True. He did however, make the team even worse by his own mismanagement. Does anyone believe he had worse players to choose from than the likes of Ross County for example? He got nowhere near the best out of those at his disposal and that is a managers first priority.

[leggeto]

I have no problem with Butcher remaining as manager. Petrie simply must remove himself all together.

Me too although we could have got better,I'm clinging to hope that what he achieved at Inverness can be done here,I always said you can't judge him until he brings in his own players,Petrie should have gone after the calderwood reign, he survived that one,he won't survive this time

[smurf]

Focus is on #PetrieOut but Butcher has been a disastrous appointment and has to go.

[greenlex]

All I want to see is a committed winning team on the park, can Butcher deliver this? I'm not sure

He has delivered elsewhere where he was afforded time. As ODS says on top of that it would be madness to spend money replacing them months after we spent money getting them in the first place. Money needs spent on players and not taking a punt in yet another manager. Let them get on with the rebuild.

[leggeto]

He has delivered elsewhere where he was afforded time. As ODS says on top of that it would be madness to spend money replacing them months after we spent money getting them in the first place. Money needs spent on players and not taking a punt in yet another manager. Let them get on with the rebuild.

I wonder what the wage budget will be with all the talk off cuts,will we try and get up 1st time or are they setting themselves up for 2 seasons down in the championship

[blackpoolhibs]

100% The real fans will back him, the noisy MAJORITY won't.

Sorted.

[Devilstorment]

I have no desire to "bait you". Without trawling back through threads, I don't believe you have offered any tangibly sensible or approriate reason to promote the current manager to have earned the right to manage in 2014/15 following his horrific performance in 2013/14. :hmmm:

However, you did offer some "reasons" in one post to which I replied here (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?284834-Back-Butcher&p=4040062&viewfull=1#post4040062) but I haven't seen you replying to my thoughts on your comments. :dunno: :hmmm:

Fancy offering some supporting information of is it just another wish list without foundation or justification? :dunno:


Ok so i have taken a look.

Point one - I don't agree with you, I don't feel that it was "gross dereliction of duty" in the slightest. The fact remains he inherited a team with limited talent, he didn't abandon his duties.

Point two - I don't have any proof of this, I wound not be privy to inside dealings of the club, As i mentioned before, I have confidence. I don't have to have factual evidence of anything actually happening to have confidence. As Human beings we are aloud to do that.

Point three - I may be mistaken but I believe Aberdeen brought in a total of 0 players in January

[greenlex]

Cannot back butcher as I have no faith in him. He was not able to bring in players to what was a very poor squad. True. He did however, make the team even worse by his own mismanagement. Does anyone believe he had worse players to choose from than the likes of Ross County for example? He got nowhere near the best out of those at his disposal and that is a managers first priority.
How he would have got on with Ross Counties squad is irrelevant.Did he have worse players than Inverness is more relevant and the answer is quite simply yes.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I would have given Terence more time had he simply won one game in the final three months of the season and so avoided relegation, but the level of his failure is so egregious that I believe he must be sacked, as he clearly won't resign as a point of honour. His record is a disgrace. Are we really saying that relegation from such a weak SPL isn't a sacking offence? I'm sorry but he and Malpas must leave with Petrie.

[jacomo]

I would have given Terence more time had he simply won one game in the final three months of the season and so avoided relegation, but the level of his failure is so egregious that I believe he must be sacked, as he clearly won't resign as a point of honour. His record is a disgrace. Are we really saying that relegation from such a weak SPL isn't a sacking offence? I'm sorry but he and Malpas must leave with Petrie.

Amen to that.

As for waiting until the new CEO is in post:

1. Her job has already been made a lot harder by a manager who apparently refuses to resign and yet has already cut the squad in half.
2. Her remit does not extend upwards to the Chairman. Petrie will be her boss - she can't do anything to get rid of him.

[Captain Trips]

I would have given Terence more time had he simply won one game in the final three months of the season and so avoided relegation, but the level of his failure is so egregious that I believe he must be sacked, as he clearly won't resign as a point of honour. His record is a disgrace. Are we really saying that relegation from such a weak SPL isn't a sacking offence? I'm sorry but he and Malpas must leave with Petrie.

It is Fenlons fault though, if he had won 5 from his first 11 instead of 4. :greengrin

[greenlex]

It is Fenlons fault though, if he had won 5 from his first 11 instead of 4. :greengrin

You jest Carlsberg but................. given they were his players and worked with the majority for over a year then he really should have done better.

[Captain Trips]

You jest Carlsberg but................. given they were his players and worked with the majority for over a year then he really should have done better.

Might have lost every game after his 11 might have won some who knows, based on the 11 games IMO we would not have been relegated.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Might have lost every game after his 11 might have won some who knows, based on the 11 games IMO we would not have been relegated.

It certainly couldn't have bee any worse. Nobody could have produced a worse track record than Butcher has managed. It's inexcusable IMHO.

[Baader]

How he would have got on with Ross Counties squad is irrelevant.Did he have worse players than Inverness is more relevant and the answer is quite simply yes.

It's not irrelevant. It's a yardstick for comparing your rivals. Butcher failed to get the best out of what he had to work with when certain teams around us had worse resources. Do you honestly think Hamilton have a stronger squad than us? Subbing off an experienced striker and gambling to defend your league status... That is mismanagement at its absolute nadir...

[Jim Herriot]

Can you explain this please. Why does the number of posts any registered member make have any bearing on his opinion (everyone has one).

Whilst I may not agree with the post, at least he is being constructive in out darkest hour.

Strange!!
Agree. Such a response, typical on this forum, is why many members with a low post count choose to keep it that way.

[Devilstorment]

Agree. Such a response, typical on this forum, is why many members with a low post count choose to keep it that way.

its a long established way to preserve an elite...

[Zander]

Butcher has had too easy a time of it so far
At least Rod appeared at the meetings to face the 'resign now' calls

Terry should have fell on his own sword after Sunday's shambles but he has not been seen or heard from other than the initial "I'm staying" statement
We are not even sure if it was terry's idea to ditch all the out of contract players or it was Rod telling him to do so
Now we are hearing comments about young players possibly being sold off

Terry should be speaking to the fans telling us why he is the man to fix things, and what he plans to do to make things right.
The fans need to see a plan of action now not sometime in July

[JimBHibees]

It's not irrelevant. It's a yardstick for comparing your rivals. Butcher failed to get the best out of what he had to work with when certain teams around us had worse resources. Do you honestly think Hamilton have a stronger squad than us? Subbing off an experienced striker and gambling to defend your league status... That is mismanagement at its absolute nadir...

In saying that if the midfielders and defence had carried out even basic defensive competence in the 93rd min we would have stayed up. Nelson in particular should be shot for his defending at both goals. OTJ didnt exactly cover himself in glory either bailing out the tackle on the edge of the box.

[truehibernian]

In saying that if the midfielders and defence had carried out even basic defensive competence in the 93rd min we would have stayed up. Nelson in particular should be shot for his defending at both goals. OTJ didnt exactly cover himself in glory either bailing out the tackle on the edge of the box.

Jim I can't believe how easy fans have been on OTJ regards that goal - it was beyond juvenile football defending. Nelson - well, he's just garbage. The team photo he had a honey monster head on - he's played like he's had his body and feet tae !!!

[greenlex]

It's not irrelevant. It's a yardstick for comparing your rivals. Butcher failed to get the best out of what he had to work with when certain teams around us had worse resources. Do you honestly think Hamilton have a stronger squad than us? Subbing off an experienced striker and gambling to defend your league status... That is mismanagement at its absolute nadir...
Just as strong as squad yes. Certainly far more desire and determination. Every one of their midfield would have comfortably been in that hibs side and I include Kevin Thomson in that. MAC or Scotland versus James Collins? Its a bit of a no contest really. Defenders? I don't think I need to go on do I?

[JimBHibees]

Jim I can't believe how easy fans have been on OTJ regards that goal - it was beyond juvenile football defending. Nelson - well, he's just garbage. The team photo he had a honey monster head on - he's played like he's had his body and feet tae !!!

Agree I think you said McGivern and Nelson would take us down and you have been proven right. Shameful really and you do get the impression a core group of experienced players frankly were going through the motions big time in the last few months quite why they continually started is incredible and huge indictment of Butcher. I'll say it again quite how a team supposedly fighting for their lives didnt rack up one yellow card is frankly bizarre and indicative of the general malaise. A more professional team would have highlighted Scotland as pretty much the sole threat and been lets say more than robust on more than one occasion.

[Paisley Hibby]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

You must be on the wind up mate? In my opinion, the focus on Petrie has meant Butcher has been getting off lightly. Given his performance over the past five months I wouldn't trust him to manage a primary school team. He is worse than useless. Sadly we don't have the money to get rid. I can only hope that fan pressure eventually makes him do what he should have done last Sunday night.

[Nailrod]

I agree 100% with the OP and I have a couple of thousand more posts. I'm certainly no jambo or club insider.
Whatever.

I don't think in my whole posting career I've ever started a thread (which would generally indicate it's something that's really important to me) and then completely abandoned the thread and ignored all the other posts on it.

**admin deleted**

Back (Door) Butcher!

:rolleyes:

[eggbamyasi]

I didn't ignore it, I merely pointed out that contrary to what he was saying neither Fenlon nor Calderwood did seem to appreciate that the squad needed emptying. Butcher did.

You might be right and he might not be up to it. Given the cost of emptying him, what he managed at ICT (after he had made a lot of mistakes earlier in his managerial career I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he learned from those and ICT got the value of that) and that fact that we do not yet know whether with a blank sheet of paper he might be able to put a winning and attractive team on the park - I'm for keeping him.

Particularly if Dempsey can make peace (see what I did there?) and Petrie is sidelined or emptied.

Wait a minute , you explained why you might think butcher might do ok and also why getting rid at the mo might not be a good idea . Possible the third time too . But im sure the gtf screamers will completely ignore that and you mist be a spy/yam .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[Paisley Hibby]

Me too although we could have got better,I'm clinging to hope that what he achieved at Inverness can be done here,I always said you can't judge him until he brings in his own players,Petrie should have gone after the calderwood reign, he survived that one,he won't survive this time

The reason he did well at ICT was because of the set up at that club. The same applied to Robertson and Paterson who did well there. What they all have in common is that they were shown to be rubbish once they left ICT.

[Devilstorment]

Whatever.

I don't think in my whole posting career I've ever started a thread (which would generally indicate it's something that's really important to me) and then completely abandoned the thread and ignored all the other posts on it.

But then I'm not a yamfud like the OP who you 100% agree with.

Back (Door) Butcher!

:rolleyes:


Even if he is a yam, the thread has clearly created a lot of debate amongst Hibs fans, other than people trying to shutdown supporters of butcher, it is pretty healthy debate. Brokeback just has them all drooling in unison over whether they are going to sign Skacel for the 93rd time after he has failed at every other club.

[TornadoHibby]

Ok so i have taken a look.

Point one - I don't agree with you, I don't feel that it was "gross dereliction of duty" in the slightest. The fact remains he inherited a team with limited talent, he didn't abandon his duties.

Point two - I don't have any proof of this, I wound not be privy to inside dealings of the club, As i mentioned before, I have confidence. I don't have to have factual evidence of anything actually happening to have confidence. As Human beings we are aloud to do that.

Point three - I may be mistaken but I believe Aberdeen brought in a total of 0 players in January

Point 1 - OK, I have no idea how you pair the disaster of getting Hibs relegated from a position of relative safety when Mr Butcher arrived as anything less than what I described it as previously with "he didn't abandon his duties" but you are of course entitled to your opinion. Naturally, I don't agree for what I see as very obvious reasons. :agree:

Point 2 - If you have no information about something how can you possibly have any confidence about the outcome that is likely to emerge especially given Mr Butchers performance at Hibs and particularly in 2014? Again, I don't agree for very obvious reasons. :agree:

Point 3 - I was alluding to the signing of Adam Rooney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rooney), who has scored a number of important goals for the Dons since signing for them in January 2014. :rolleyes:

[Baader]

Just as strong as squad yes. Certainly far more desire and determination. Every one of their midfield would have comfortably been in that hibs side and I include Kevin Thomson in that. MAC or Scotland versus James Collins? Its a bit of a no contest really. Defenders? I don't think I need to go on do I?
Just as strong or no contest? Dont suppose it matters as you are not going to convince me Butcher is a man to back. If you think he was getting the best out of a very bad bunch fair enough. I can't agree and as such have no confidence in him as our manager. He's already proving divisive. His mismanagement has seen us where we are. The club is in a mess and I think he should follow Petrie and get out.

[TornadoHibby]

its a long established way to preserve an elite...

elite what? :dunno:

[Devilstorment]

Point 1 - OK, I have no idea how you pair the disaster of getting Hibs relegated from a position of relative safety when Mr Butcher arrived as anything less than what I described it as previously with "he didn't abandon his duties" but you are of course entitled to your opinion. Naturally, I don't agree for what I see as very obvious reasons. :agree:

Point 2 - If you have no information about something how can you possibly have any confidence about the outcome that is likely to emerge especially given Mr Butchers performance at Hibs and particularly in 2014? Again, I don't agree for very obvious reasons. :agree:

Point 3 - I was alluding to the signing of Adam Rooney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rooney), who has scored a number of important goals for the Dons since signing for them in January 2014. :rolleyes:

You said "dereliction of duty" - My understanding of that is that you are implying he has WILFULLY relegated Hibs. I can't imagine that thats the case for a second.

I guess my confidence is based on the rebuilding he done with ICT after "getting them" relegated.

We apparently wouldn't offer Rooney like the extra 500 pound a week her was looking for according to popular consensus - Surely thats down to Petrie? unless Butcher said he isn't worth the extra?

[greenlex]

Just as strong or no contest? Dont suppose it matters as you are not going to convince me Butcher is a man to back. If you think he was getting the best out of a very bad bunch fair enough. I can't agree and as such have no confidence in him as our manager. He's already proving divisive. His mismanagement has seen us where we are. The club is in a mess and I think he should follow Petrie and get out.
Your opinion and I respect that. Hamilton were the best team in both legs. The second leg by a mile. They thoroughly deserve their Premiership status. Our lot got exactly what they deserved. Relegated and for all of them the opportunity to look for another club. They are not good enough.

[Devilstorment]

elite what? :dunno:


Elite as in class.

We the x thousand posters, must by sheer volume of posts be more "Hibs" than anyone with low post volumes. We can also judge who is truly a Hibs fan based on whether they agree with our opinions. Anyone with low post volumes that voice a different opinion MUST be a yam (or as recently become popular, associated to Hibernian FC)

[TornadoHibby]

Elite as in class.

We the x thousand posters, must by sheer volume of posts be more "Hibs" than anyone with low post volumes. We can also judge who is truly a Hibs fan based on whether they agree with our opinions. Anyone with low post volumes that voice a different opinion MUST be a yam (or as recently become popular, associated to Hibernian FC)

I think that to understand the emergence of low post number members on here at time of Hibs trouble you need to have been here for more than five minutes to appreciate that our Jumbo neebors like to pop over here and cause mischief! :agree:

They aren't, in the main, new Hibs fans looking to cause controversy with posts that defy all logic and go against the general feeling on the MB. :agree:

Call it experience if you will more than suggesting that some with more posts think they have better opinions than those with lower post numbers. :agree:

We all had low post numbers at some time in our existence on here! :wink:

[Devilstorment]

I think that to understand the emergence of low post number members on here at time of Hibs trouble you need to have been here for more than five minutes to appreciate that our Jumbo neebors like to pop over here and cause mischief! :agree:

They aren't, in the main, new Hibs fans looking to cause controversy with posts that defy all logic and go against the general feeling on the MB. :agree:

Call it experience if you will more than suggesting that some with more posts think they have better opinions than those with lower post numbers. :agree:

We all had low post numbers at some time in our existence on here! :wink:


all true!! :agree:

I just think there we need to be careful that we don't alienate people who come on this. assuming we are all hibs fans, everyones opinion should be respected.

How you keep the yams and trolls out... I guess its hard, maybe a Hibs history quiz prior to registrations. If they all have to answer "What was the greatest derby score in history?" they might baulk at the idea of registering!!

[MSK]

Can we get this thread back on topic guy's please ..ta

[HNA1]

FFS get real.

This thread started with a contrarian post. It is now over 150 posts long. The 'Hibs supporter' who started it has 7 posts. He has not shown the slightest interest in his own thread since his first post.

Have you ever done that? (On Hibs.net I mean.)

Maybe they've gone to work and will come back on later. If you suspect someone's a Yam then report the post and the admin team will look into it. If you're toiling to post without chucking accusations about then you might want to consider whether this is the forum for you.

[Baader]

Your opinion and I respect that. Hamilton were the best team in both legs. The second leg by a mile. They thoroughly deserve their Premiership status. Our lot got exactly what they deserved. Relegated and for all of them the opportunity to look for another club. They are not good enough.
Sad thing is I agree completely greenlex. We got what we deserved and it has been a long time coming. Not how it should be but how it was. I just cannot accept butcher couldn't have kept us up.

[greenlex]

In less than 10 minutes from the time of this post tell me where the bookies kiosk is situated in the FF stand. If you cant do that tell me what the ceiling of the East Stand concourse looks like :rolleyes:

Ive been a hibby for more years than I care to remember. I e been on here fir longer than I care to remember. I couldn't tell you the answer to either of those questions. "greengrin"

[TornadoHibby]

You said "dereliction of duty" - My understanding of that is that you are implying he has WILFULLY relegated Hibs. I can't imagine that thats the case for a second.

I guess my confidence is based on the rebuilding he done with ICT after "getting them" relegated.

We apparently wouldn't offer Rooney like the extra 500 pound a week her was looking for according to popular consensus - Surely thats down to Petrie? unless Butcher said he isn't worth the extra?

Stick to what I said and don't imply what I mean from that as you have no idea of my personality or nature to enable you to make such implications! :agree:

Let me be clear as I have perhaps not made myself clear to you previously. IMO Mr Butcher made a complete arse of managing Hibs since his appointment and the degree of incompetence and negligence in the way he managed the first team in particular was mindblowingly large going from the relative safety of mid table when PF resigned to relegation serving up the worst football(hoofball) seen at ER in living memory of current fans! I'll be interested how you try and contradict me on that one! :wink:

Please don't trot the one out about that "it was Fenlons players""! Pat managed to do ok with them till he left, ok but not great! The "much lauded man managment and motivational guru" was singularly unable to coach, motivate, mentor, encourage (or anything else he should have been doing) those guys, or any of the youth players who were good enough to make the first team leap sufficiently well to secure the single additional one match victory that would have meant no "play offs" for Hibs! :rolleyes:

Does any of the above (or the attached Wiki page)assist your confidence building about the future with Mr Butcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Butcher)at the helm? :dunno:



Point three - I may be mistaken but I believe Aberdeen brought in a total of 0 players in January

Changed your tune now on point 3 then!

[matty_f]

Stick to what I said and don't imply what I mean from that as you have no idea of my personality or nature to enable you to make such implications! :agree:

Let me be clear as I have perhaps not made myself clear to you previously. IMO Mr Butcher made a complete arse of managing Hibs since his appointment and the degree of incompetence and negligence in the way he managed the first team in particular was mindblowingly large going from the relative safety of mid table when PF resigned to relegation serving up the worst football(hoofball) seen at ER in living memory of current fans! I'll be interested how you try and contradict me on that one! :wink:

Please don't trot the one out about that "it was Fenlons players""! Pat managed to do ok with them till he left, ok but not great! The "much lauded man managment and motivational guru" was singularly unable to coach, motivate, mentor, encourage (or anything else he should have been doing) those guys, or any of the youth players who were good enough to make the first team leap sufficiently well to secure the single additional one match victory that would have meant no "play offs" for Hibs! :rolleyes:

Does any of the above (or the attached Wiki page)assist your confidence building about the future with Mr Butcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Butcher)at the helm? :dunno:



Changed your tune now on point 3 then!

This relative safety of mid-table, can you remember how many points from 2nd bottom we were when Butcher took over?

[TornadoHibby]

This relative safety of mid-table, can you remember how many points from 2nd bottom we were when Butcher took over?

Around the same number we were off 4th (top) IIRC! :wink:

[matty_f]

Around the same number we were off 4th (top) IIRC! :wink:

How many was that, then?

[Devilstorment]

Stick to what I said and don't imply what I mean from that as you have no idea of my personality or nature to enable you to make such implications! :agree:

Let me be clear as I have perhaps not made myself clear to you previously. IMO Mr Butcher made a complete arse of managing Hibs since his appointment and the degree of incompetence and negligence in the way he managed the first team in particular was mindblowingly rge going from the relative safety of mid table when PF resigned to relegation serving up the worst football(hoofball) seen at ER in living memory of current fans! I'll be interested how you try and contradict me on that one! :wink:

Please don't trot the one out about that "it was Fenlons players""! Pat managed to do ok with them till he left, ok but not great! The "much lauded man managment and motivational guru" was singularly unable to coach, motivate, mentor, encourage (or anything else he should have been doing) those guys, or any of the youth players who were good enough to make the first team leap sufficiently well to secure the single additional one match victory that would have meant no "play offs" for Hibs! :rolleyes:

Does any of the above (or the attached Wiki page)assist your confidence building about the future with Mr Butcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Butcher)at the helm? :dunno:



Changed your tune now on point 3 then!


poor choice of words with imply. I don't imply I took the meaning directly from your words. Dereliction means:
1. Willful neglect, as of duty or principle.
2.a. The act of abandoning; abandonment.
b. A state of abandonment or neglect.


I am afraid I just can't see past the fact he has not been given enough time to build his own squad. Which he should be judge by. Fenlon's mid table side IMO was always going to struggle given the lack of a striker. I do not think its fair to measure him until it is his own team. Yes he should have done better, relegation is a disaster. But against all logic which you have presented. I still feel that until he builds his own team, we can't truly judge him.

I agree with you with regards to our current brand of hoofball, I only hope that this is an indication of his lack of faith in the technical ability of the squad at his disposal. Therefore he resorted to the most basic tactic available. Hoof it up the park and hope for the best....

Im not "changing" any "tune" I was wrong about the number of signings not exactly a sin to be wrong, never thought someone would hold it over my head.

I can see that we are not going to agree here. Lets just leave it as this:

You don't have faith that Butcher is the man for the job, I do.

[jacomo]

Can we get this thread back on topic guy's please ..ta

Ok fine. F*** Butcher, I want my club back.

[NAE NOOKIE]

C'mon admins ......... I know its hard going just now. but I wasn't insulting the guy, he was being accused of being a Yam. All I was doing was giving him a chance to prove he isn't. :cb

[Del Boy]

Sorry but had 5 full days to reflect and I'm 100% Butcher GTF.

[Nailrod]

C'mon admins ......... I know its hard going just now. but I wasn't insulting the guy, he was being accused of being a Yam. All I was doing was giving him a chance to prove he isn't. :cbYou're being unreasonable.

The guy's busy. Working really hard. Left for work at 2 a.m., and its now 5 p.m. Poor guy is desperate to come back and comment on his thread, but he's just working so hard.

[Greenworld]

Ok fine. F*** Butcher, I want my club back.

This agreed

[Paisley Hibby]

It's Butcher's abysmal performance as our manager and the consequences of that which have led to the current initiative to get rid of Petrie. If I had to choose one over the other right now it would be Butcher I'd bin.

[Nailrod]

It's Butcher's abysmal performance as our manager and the consequences of that which have led to the current initiative to get rid of Petrie. If I had to choose one over the other right now it would be Butcher I'd bin.Why?

Binning Butcher would cost us several hundred thousand pounds, and destroy any faint hopes we have of achieving promotion next year.

I'm of the view that if we weld enormous lead blinkers to Butcher's eyes, clamp earphones to his head playing rap music at 1000 decibels, plug his throat with a huge rubber stop, and allow him to wander around ER at random next year, then he might be just the guy to win us promotion.

[RIP Bestie]

You said "dereliction of duty" - My understanding of that is that you are implying he has WILFULLY relegated Hibs. I can't imagine that thats the case for a second.

I guess my confidence is based on the rebuilding he done with ICT after "getting them" relegated.

We apparently wouldn't offer Rooney like the extra 500 pound a week her was looking for according to popular consensus - Surely thats down to Petrie? unless Butcher said he isn't worth the extra?
Who says Rooney would have scored goals for us?
Griffiths would probably have struggled this season. Individualist goals aside.

[Winston Ingram]

This relative safety of mid-table, can you remember how many points from 2nd bottom we were when Butcher took over?

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-11-09

We were 15 off the top and 19 clear of Hearts.

[Sumner]

Who says Rooney would have scored goals for us?
Griffiths would probably have struggled this season. Individualist goals aside.

Who said we wouldn't go down? James Collins = 6 goals all season

Who said he would score play-off goals to save Hibs? Paul Heffernan = 0 play-off goals..

.. if "if's" and "buts" were bacon and nuts..

[majorhibs]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

Just stop it! Not going through 6 pages, but that is a DISGRACEFUL showing from Butcher, who could have done worse? Get him punted ASAP, Petrie will take time but a REAL football team, any team, would see this imposter for the clueless clown he is & punt him. It should have happened before. Petrie will take time but Butcher should be gone rapido. How ANYBODY can try to defend that abysmal showing from Butcher, relegating HIBS in that division against those teams, just completely mystifies me. He wasnt just bad, I really dont have the words, no excuses, just get rid before more damage, which would no doubt be followed by more apologising and excuses, can be done by Butcher to Hibernian FC. He simply cant be allowed to inflict more damage.

[The Leith Dutch]

Who says Rooney would have scored goals for us?
Griffiths would probably have struggled this season. Individualist goals aside.

:top marks

Without defending Collins who I don't particularly rate I reckon Kris Boyd - a leading SPL goal scorer both all time and this season - would have struggled with the way we played this season.

The team as a whole was poorly set up - deep lying midfield & defence combined with a lack of flair - which highlighted the weaknesses in the players we had.
The guy scoring is often just applying the finishing touch to a well drilled and organised team.

[matty_f]

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-11-09

We were 15 off the top and 19 clear of Hearts.

5 points ahead of Ross County in 10th, who had 2 games in hand on us. 4 points ahead of St Mirren who had 2 games in hand on us.

We weren't exactly in mid-table safety, all things considered.

[The Green Goblin]

Petrie is the only constant over the slow degradation of our club. There is no way that this revolving door of management that we have at the moment is all down to incompetent managers. Why add one more casualty to the ever growing list. Get Petrie out and give Butcher a chance to sort out this mess

No offence to yourself, but I honestly don`t understand this logic. If the immediate "mess" you refer to is relegation, Butcher had about 28 chances to "sort it out" and not only did he fail to do so, he actually created the "mess" we are trying to deal with. He has managed the club for 30 games in all competitions and out of those 30 games, he has won 6, 3 of those wins were in his last 20 (correct me if I`m wrong here please, but it`s along these lines) games in charge, a run which basically got us relegated. But you want to give him a chance to sort out the mess? I have nothing personal against Butcher, he seems like a good guy, but he has spectacularly failed as manager of Hibs. I`m not having a go, but I can`t understand, given his time so far at Hibs, what makes you think he is capable of being the manager we need next season. What is it? Can you tell me? (Again, I`m not being sarcastic or having a dig. That`s a genuine question). Cheers.

Edit: Just watched Charlie Reid`s interview and listened to his reasoning for not sacking TB with interest. I can see there`s another side to the argument and I need to have a think about that. In the meantime, as others are posting, the only issue is RP.

[Winston Ingram]

5 points ahead of Ross County in 10th, who had 2 games in hand on us. 4 points ahead of St Mirren who had 2 games in hand on us.

We weren't exactly in mid-table safety, all things considered.

A *****e Hearts side made 22 points up on us.

[matty_f]

A *****e Hearts side made 22 points up on us.

They did indeed, and they pulled back a lot of points on a few other teams as well.

[The Harp]

I just wonder what it is that those advocating we keep him and allow him to bring in his own players, have seen lately that I’ve missed. For me, it would be the most massive of gambles, because I’ve seen nothing which would indicate he just might belatedly get it right. The tactics employed over the last 5 months or so, the absolutely dire football offered up, the ludicrous statements issued and the total lack of man-management skills, however, would suggest otherwise.
I hoped he would have done the decent thing by now and handed in his resignation because of his spectacular failure in securing the one win which would have saved the Club from this nightmare. But no, he is too pig-headed to accept that his incompetence in the job has been the main cause of our demise. He wants to carry on, irrespective of how this will affect the well-being of Hibernian, in an attempt to restore his tarnished reputation.
Don’t forget his failure has also had a catastrophic effect on Rod Petrie, whose position many feel is now untenable. However, if our top flight status had been maintained, and with the prospect of Leeanne Dempster coming in to shake things up, it’s likely the calls for Rod to quit would have been less vociferous as they have been and he may just have survived.
Whatever personnel we have in place when the season starts, I’ll give the team my support from the stands as always.
I don’t normally go for long-winded ramblings on here but this nightmare has really got to me. The above is just my personal opinion, of course. Apologies for the rant.

[eastterrace]

butcher and malpas are duds and if we stick with them then next season going to be a long one i fear. i worry in case we actually will be fighting relegation again next season. still i have paid my season ticket money so just need to face up to it that we are stuck with with these duds.

[Callum_62]

I just wonder what it is that those advocating we keep him and allow him to bring in his own players, have seen lately that I’ve missed. For me, it would be the most massive of gambles, because I’ve seen nothing which would indicate he just might belatedly get it right. The tactics employed over the last 5 months or so, the absolutely dire football offered up, the ludicrous statements issued and the total lack of man-management skills, however, would suggest otherwise.
I hoped he would have done the decent thing by now and handed in his resignation because of his spectacular failure in securing the one win which would have saved the Club from this nightmare. But no, he is too pig-headed to accept that his incompetence in the job has been the main cause of our demise. He wants to carry on, irrespective of how this will affect the well-being of Hibernian, in an attempt to restore his tarnished reputation.
Don’t forget his failure has also had a catastrophic effect on Rod Petrie, whose position many feel is now untenable. However, if our top flight status had been maintained, and with the prospect of Leeanne Dempster coming in to shake things up, it’s likely the calls for Rod to quit would have been less vociferous as they have been and he may just have survived.
Whatever personnel we have in place when the season starts, I’ll give the team my support from the stands as always.
I don’t normally go for long-winded ramblings on here but this nightmare has really got to me. The above is just my personal opinion, of course. Apologies for the rant.

Would someone like Ian Murray be classed as a gamble?

[greenlex]

Would someone like Ian Murray be classed as a gamble?Yes absolutely. His appointment at this time would be a huge gamble. Exactly the type of appointment that got us to where we are at the moment.

[GloriousHibs]

I don't post much, by the time you have read the views of many, you're too depressed to offer your opinion.

However, on this subject. get this imposter on the first train out of Edinburgh. Disgrace of a manager . No excuses, enough, he has no future at Hibernian

[Winston Ingram]

Would someone like Ian Murray be classed as a gamble?

Of course. A massive one

[BIGK]

The only two teams that stuck by Butcher through his hard times( and that has been every club he has been at) has ended up better than when he got there.
I'm the kind of person that looks at the bigger picture (not always the correct one) and looks to see that this guy likes to change clubs from the roots up. Now I'm the most patient person I know so maybe not the best person to ask but I say stick with Butcher only because of his past record.
The next problem I have with his record says that he will toil for the fist couple of months of next season before getting it right. Straw and camel come to mind.

[boab1875]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

deluded post i'm afraid. he has been worse than all the managers you mentioned. Butcher Out, he's had his chance and royally f***ed it up. we will go down again with him at the helm

[SouthamptonHibs]

Over the last week, everyone linked with His has suffered. With talks of "boycotts" and such a like, the club would surely be more worse off than it already is. For those calling for butchers head, can I remind you of the Mixu, Hughes, caldwerwood and fenlon era where the vast majority of fans called for their heads, now look where the club is. This s***e of constant replacement of managers needs to stop. let Butcher do his job. Give him time, let him bring in players and go from there

Sorry I'll never back him. Clueless and does not have any tactics. His man management skills are out of date. Terrible manager. Butcher must goooooo

[Callum_62]

His man management skills are out of date. Terrible manager. Butcher must goooooo

I cant buy this argument at this stage

I know Inverness is a weird place, but surely they still dont reside the in 60's, where Butchers 'out of date' man management skills are brilliant

Why did he do so well, and was so well liked up there?

I believe its because he had pros that actually cared

We had 1 or 2....the rest couldn't give a monkeys

I back Butcher still, although I think he will be lucky to keep his job

Cant say that he didn't make mistakes, blatantly he must have - I dont think he was helped in any way by the joke of a 1st team squad

[truehibernian]

Would someone like Ian Murray be classed as a gamble?

Nope - I posted after Hughes was sacked Ian would be our manager in the very near future - he'll be our manager next season, I've absolutely no doubt now !

[Mixu62]

I'll back Butcher.....off a bleedin cliff.

[hibeejeebies]

As far as I can tell - and a few folk have pointed out his record at Inverness, which was in fairness pretty decent - the most common reasoning behind the pro Butcher cause is "we've sacked a load of other managers so let's try somet different."

I'm struggling to compile a list of reasons why he's the man for the job?

[Heedersnvolleys]

Yes absolutely. His appointment at this time would be a huge gamble. Exactly the type of appointment that got us to where we are at the moment.
I agree too big a gamble but it was the current appointment that got us in this mess. Unless you are suggesting TB's appoint was of a similar gamble?

[RIP Bestie]

Eh? Naw. Thanks

[greenlex]

I agree too big a gamble but it was the current appointment that got us in this mess. Unless you are suggesting TB's appoint was of a similar gamble?
No. I'm suggesting after getting lucky with Mowbray the slide started with the inexperience of Collins. Then steadily went downhill with Mixu Hughes and Calderwood. Fenlon arrested the slide somewhat but was still inexperienced enough to be out his depth. He acknowledged as much and walked. Butcher is experienced at the level we need to be at. Horrendous start it has to be said but if he is to be replaced we need someone who has done it before at our level and not take a punt on an up and coming manager. As a club its not what we need right now.

[SouthamptonHibs]

I cant buy this argument at this stage

I know Inverness is a weird place, but surely they still dont reside the in 60's, where Butchers 'out of date' man management skills are brilliant

Why did he do so well, and was so well liked up there?

I believe its because he had pros that actually cared

We had 1 or 2....the rest couldn't give a monkeys

I back Butcher still, although I think he will be lucky to keep his job

Cant say that he didn't make mistakes, blatantly he must have - I dont think he was helped in any way by the joke of a 1st team squad

Callum I agree that the squad was not the best but he never used it properly. 4-5-1 at home v Hamilton, Cummings wide right all game, playing Harris, not playing Thomson from the start. The negative sub Heff off Tudor on. He cost us big time in that game alone.

IMO he has to be sacked asap

[The Green Goblin]

Nope - I posted after Hughes was sacked Ian would be our manager in the very near future - he'll be our manager next season, I've absolutely no doubt now !

Wow. That's quite a claim, and my impression of you is that you are close to the club in some way (no idea who you are though :greengrin) Have you heard something? (And how come nobody else has picked up on your post?!)

[Callum_62]

If Murray replaces Butcher - I will be far more worried about next season that I am now

Not saying Ian wont be a good manager, far too early for our total rebuild though

[SouthamptonHibs]

If Murray replaces Butcher - I will be far more worried about next season that I am now

Not saying Ian wont be a good manager, far too early for our total rebuild though

I don't think Ian is ready for Hibs yet. But I also have no faith in Butcher.

Problem I've got is thinking what manager is going to come to us plus what players will we attract for next season?

Is Alex McLeish available? I'd take him back if we get a bank loan for some decent players he has the right pedigree to get us out of the championship.

Hearts and the Rangers are already building for next season we have not even started.

We need a full squad in place for start of July, Petrie or who ever is in charge can't wait till 31st August to sign players, by then we will already be behind Hearts and Rangers.

What worries me is Butcher let Thomson go and Ben Williams. Is he going to attract two better players to Hibs next season in the championship? Doubtful.

Collins is still at the club worst striker at our club since Hurtado

Nothing positive has come out of Hibs In last 6 days since relegation.

[bingo70]

Better to get shot now than 8 or 9 games into next season.

He's not shown anything so far to indicate he'll be able to turn it around and it's too big a risk to take imo

[The Leith Dutch]

Better to get shot now than 8 or 9 games into next season.

This is a big worry for me.
If we're brutally honest anything less than an excellent start and he's gone pre Christmas.

That puts us back in the cycle of:
new manager a couple of months into the season;
calls for time till he gets his own players in;
a paper over the cracks January window;
an end of season split in the fans between the he's not done well enough camp and the we need to see him with his own players camp;

We need a new manager in during the summer window for once.

There's a lot of people saying we can't afford to sack Butcher.

My take is we can't afford not to - especially as the manager now is buying a new team.

If we have to change manager in October we are royally screwed.

The management situation needs to be right now and not a case of "well this might work out...."

If that's a financial hit of compensation to Butcher now then so be it.
Better a few hundred grand now for the best chance of avoiding the cost of years in the Championship.

[majorhibs]

This is a big worry for me.
If we're brutally honest anything less than an excellent start and he's gone pre Christmas.

That puts us back in the cycle of:
new manager a couple of months into the season;
calls for time till he gets his own players in;
a paper over the cracks January window;
an end of season split in the fans between the he's not done well enough camp and the we need to see him with his own players camp;

We need a new manager in during the summer window for once.

There's a lot of people saying we can't afford to sack Butcher.

My take is we can't afford not to - especially as the manager now is buying a new team.

If we have to change manager in October we are royally screwed.

The management situation needs to be right now and not a case of "well this might work out...."

If that's a financial hit of compensation to Butcher now then so be it.
Better a few hundred grand now for the best chance of avoiding the cost of years in the Championship.

Good point. Too many saying we cant keep going through managers - we cant keep changing mid season & expect decent league placings - but lets face it who seriously could have done worse than these jokers last season - that was a disgrace & they HAVE to go now, rapido - and let a real manager get started & continue throughout the season - but please just empty these imposters right now by whatever means & give us a chance for next season.

[Albion Hibs]

I find it impossible to back butcher just now, and if I was Danny Lennon I would feel pretty frustrated at being let go, yet terry butcher not only keeps his job, but seems to have disappeared down a rabbit hole.

That also speaks volumes about the pride our board had for the club, that a team the size of st mirren can say 'this just is not working, things are not progressing so we need to change', yet down the road at hibs we get relegated and get 'we are all really disappointed' and 'let's kick off with sorry'...and NOTHING changes. I struggle to believe the man that MANAGES our team is still the one that MANAGED to get us relegated.

[Callum_62]

I find it impossible to back butcher just now, and if I was Danny Lennon I would feel pretty frustrated at being let go, yet terry butcher not only keeps his job, but seems to have disappeared down a rabbit hole.

That also speaks volumes about the pride our board had for the club, that a team the size of st mirren can say 'this just is not working, things are not progressing so we need to change', yet down the road at hibs we get relegated and get 'we are all really disappointed' and 'let's kick off with sorry'...and NOTHING changes. I struggle to believe the man that MANAGES our team is still the one that MANAGED to get us relegated.

That change was appointing his assistant manager...

Maybe we should give Mo the top job??? :greengrin

Im interested by the absolute silence coming out of Easter Road - big week ahead I imagine

[The Leith Dutch]

I find it impossible to back butcher just now, and if I was Danny Lennon I would feel pretty frustrated at being let go, yet terry butcher not only keeps his job, but seems to have disappeared down a rabbit hole.

That also speaks volumes about the pride our board had for the club, that a team the size of st mirren can say 'this just is not working, things are not progressing so we need to change', yet down the road at hibs we get relegated and get 'we are all really disappointed' and 'let's kick off with sorry'...and NOTHING changes. I struggle to believe the man that MANAGES our team is still the one that MANAGED to get us relegated.

Completely agree with the sentiments here.

I think the fact that Lennon was out of contract made their decision a little easier.

Easy to say with hindsight but had we kept hold of Fenlon who (I think) came to the end of his contract about now we'd have been better off - he couldn't after all have got us any more relegated.....

[matty_f]

Completely agree with the sentiments here.

I think the fact that Lennon was out of contract made their decision a little easier.

Easy to say with hindsight but had we kept hold of Fenlon who (I think) came to the end of his contract about now we'd have been better off - he couldn't after all have got us any more relegated.....

I think Fenlon definitely could have been relegated with us. Someone posted the other day that when Butcher came in we were 5 points clear of St Mirren in 10th, who had 2 games in hand on us.

It shows how close we were at that point to being in serious trouble, and then we lost more players to injury. The signs have been there since pre-season (0-7, anyone?) that this side was poor and very fragile. Fenlon absolutely could have taken us down.

[The Leith Dutch]

I think Fenlon definitely could have been relegated with us. Someone posted the other day that when Butcher came in we were 5 points clear of St Mirren in 10th, who had 2 games in hand on us.

It shows how close we were at that point to being in serious trouble, and then we lost more players to injury. The signs have been there since pre-season (0-7, anyone?) that this side was poor and very fragile. Fenlon absolutely could have taken us down.

Sorry - I re-read my post and realised it wasn't particularly clear (Sunday morning, fuzzy head).

Didn't mean to suggest Fenlon would have kept us up - just that there wouldn't have been a worse outcome under Fenlon and we'd at least have been able to change manager now without compensation. Hindsight eh? :)

[matty_f]

Sorry - I re-read my post and realised it wasn't particularly clear (Sunday morning, fuzzy head).

Didn't mean to suggest Fenlon would have kept us up - just that there wouldn't have been a worse outcome under Fenlon and we'd at least have been able to change manager now without compensation. Hindsight eh? :)

:aok: