Terry Butcher off to Brazil

[.Sean.]

Surely this talk of him heading to the World Cup is nonsense? Quite possibly our biggest season in history coming up, we're left with an absolutely huge squad re-build on our hands and rather than staying home to try and mould a side, somehow salvage some pride and clear up the mess he's made, he's off on a jolly to do media work?

Astonishing if true.

[TowerHibs]

This was done weeks ago

[.Sean.]

This was done weeks ago
We weren't a Championship side weeks ago.

[Paisley Hibby]

Surely this talk of him heading to the World Cup is nonsense? Quite possibly our biggest season in history coming up, we're left with an absolutely huge squad re-build on our hands and rather than staying home to try and mould a side, somehow salvage some pride and clear up the mess he's made, he's off on a jolly to do media work?

Astonishing if true.

If it's true that he's going then he can do us a favour and not come back.

[TowerHibs]

We were in all but name

[HibeeHendo]

Hope he doesn't ****ing come back.

[greenlex]

Is there no internet or telecommunications in Brazil? Will Malpas and Marsela be joining him? Is Leanne Dempster going too? Do they all have each other's phone numbers? So many questions!!!!

[(((Fergus)))]

If he had any decency about him he could go on his jolly with everyone's blessing.

[frazeHFC]

Just on things I've read today I've decided he's a fud and I hope he goes.

Was really excited back when he joined, more optimistic than I've ever been with a manager, but he's been the worst of the lot.

Inverness fans up here are loving it.

[kaimendhibs]

Couldn't give a rats ass about technology, he got us relegated, he better stay and get us out the mess we are in. We need to sign players and quickly and he should be at home getting them in


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[Waxy]

He might come back with a Brazilian for us.

[Hibernia&Alba]

He might come back with a Brazilian for us.

Is he getting his erse waxed out there?

[kaimendhibs]

Is he getting his erse waxed out there?

Christ, is Malpas going too?


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[staunchhibby]

This man obviously has no conscience. If he goes on his jolly after the shambles he has presided over in his so called managers position.

[Captain Trips]

Couldn't give a rats ass about technology, he got us relegated, he better stay and get us out the mess we are in. We need to sign players and quickly and he should be at home getting them in


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No thanks.

[kaimendhibs]

No thanks.

Sorry, what I meant to say is, if, I hope he isn't, still our manager!


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[leggeto]

This will be his holiday

[weonlywon6-2]

I dont think he will be staying at home and sorting out hibs.if he is away for two weeks and using it as his holiday then fair dos but any longer plus another holiday is not in the interests our club

[Captain Trips]

Take as long as you want Terry say 30yrs?

[number 27]

Christ, is Malpas going too?


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:tee hee:

[Gus Fring]

What difference does it make if he's in Brazil or North Berwick? Very few player signings etc are done face to face nowadays and there won't be many matches he can go to scout players. If he was to take the players abroad for pre-season he'd still be able to work and sign players etc.

It doesn't matter where he is as long as he's back in time to oversee pre-season.

[jacomo]

What difference does it make if he's in Brazil or North Berwick? Very few player signings etc are done face to face nowadays and there won't be many matches he can go to scout players. If he was to take the players abroad for pre-season he'd still be able to work and sign players etc.

It doesn't matter where he is as long as he's back in time to oversee pre-season.

Not buying it. Football people always talk about how hard they work to get deals done during the transfer window... for me that work should have already started.

Having said that, I hope the only reason we haven't got rid of Butcher yet is that we're waiting for the new CEO to sign the order. Then he can do whatever he likes.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Is there no internet or telecommunications in Brazil? Will Malpas and Marsela be joining him? Is Leanne Dempster going too? Do they all have each other's phone numbers? So many questions!!!!

I think it is all about getting your priorities right and showing that you give a f@$# about the mess you have created and willing do what is necessary to put it right!
He will be away on a family holiday I presume before it so I if that is the case that is totally taking the p!$$

[John_the_angus_hibby]

I think it is all about getting your priorities right and showing that you give a f@$# about the mess you have created and willing do what is necessary to put it right!
He will be away on a family holiday I presume before it so I if that is the case that is totally taking the p!$$

This. Based on our predicament it would be crassly stupid for him to go.

It would tell me he is very unsure of his position at Hibs and is not wanting to burn his TV work.


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[Saorsa]

Take as long as you want Terry say 30yrs?aye, and take pertie with you

[Albion Hibs]

Money is clearly no issue for hibs then. I wonder how many other Championship managers are getting sent out to Brazil? In first read of the heading I was hoping this was to do TV work, paid for by someone else of course!

[johnbc70]

Yes they have internet and phones but in a crisis your leader needs to be visible and lead. This is a crisis and the man in charge of first team affairs needs to be here, not being here and going to Brazil will tell us a lot where he sees Hibs in his list of priorities.

[et_hibby]

Christ, is Malpas going too?


Good one!

[jdships]

Every one is entitled to a holiday surely .
Remember there is a word " Delegation" for times like this and would also imagine even if we hadn't " gone down " there would have been a massive clear out
TB will have been working for weeks if not months on replacements :rolleyes:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Couldn't give a rats ass about technology, he got us relegated, he better stay and get us out the mess we are in. We need to sign players and quickly and he should be at home getting them in


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Made me laugh ;)

[JimBHibees]

Alot of pretty classless stuff being thrown at Butcher on this thread IMO.

[The Green Goblin]

He's coming to visit me. I've spotted a local player who does a lot of "unseen work" and Terry's coming to check him out. He'll fit perfectly into the new 0-9-1 formation we'll be destroying our way through the championship with next season...

Yes, I'm kidding.

[Ronniekirk]

Surely this talk of him heading to the World Cup is nonsense? Quite possibly our biggest season in history coming up, we're left with an absolutely huge squad re-build on our hands and rather than staying home to try and mould a side, somehow salvage some pride and clear up the mess he's made, he's off on a jolly to do media work?

Astonishing if true.

You sure it's not got misinterpreted and in actual fact he is going on a spying mission to watch the blue Brazil and plot A way for us to beat Cowdenbeath next season :wink:

[Gus]

So no player who is being retained are allowed out of east mains? Get a grip folks, as already mentioned he has TV commitments, doesn't make it right but his assistants, dumpster etc can oversee signings if they have been identified

[hibeejeebies]

Apologies if I've missed this but was just looking at the BBC/ITV punditry line ups and didn't see TB's name mentioned?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Apologies if I've missed this but was just looking at the BBC/ITV punditry line ups and didn't see TB's name mentioned?

Good, he's terrible at that too.

[Callum_62]

Makes not a jot of difference to me

Its up to Dempster to conclude the deals that TB has already identified

Hibs fans love a drama

:rolleyes:

[Swedish hibee]

He can stay there. Words cannot describe how i feel about him.

[number 27]

Apologies if I've missed this but was just looking at the BBC/ITV punditry line ups and didn't see TB's name mentioned?

He does a bit for Five live radio. It might be them he is going with. :dunno:

[Dr Jimmy]

Is there no internet or telecommunications in Brazil? Will Malpas and Marsela be joining him? Is Leanne Dempster going too? Do they all have each other's phone numbers? So many questions!!!!

Strange post.

[1068gary]

He does a bit for Five live radio. It might be them he is going with. :dunno:

What is he there for? His football knowledge? They must be desperate!

[hibbymick]

He must be off his nut.

[Callum_62]

He must be off his nut.

:greengrin

[greenlex]

Every one is entitled to a holiday surely .
Remember there is a word " Delegation" for times like this and would also imagine even if we hadn't " gone down " there would have been a massive clear out
TB will have been working for weeks if not months on replacements :rolleyes: Very much so JD and LD should just be getting on with the contract and signing business. Its not as if there is any football on here at the moment to be scouting. In fact arguably Brazil is the place to be to do just that as that's where the best players on the planet will actually be playing. I really wonder how some fans minds actually work at times.

[greenlex]

I think it is all about getting your priorities right and showing that you give a f@$# about the mess you have created and willing do what is necessary to put it right!
He will be away on a family holiday I presume before it so I if that is the case that is totally taking the p!$$What should he be doing that is a bigger priority? What's he going to do here? There isn't games to be looking at players over here. I am at a loss to know what you actually expect. Should he be locked away in east mains till the season starts? I don't understand how going to the world cup is taking the piss. All the best players on the [planet will be there. He might just persuade one or two that Hibs is a good bet to eventually get access to the Englandshire Premiership.

[Alfred E Newman]

Very much so JD and LD should just be getting on with the contract and signing business. Its not as if there is any football on here at the moment to be scouting. In fact arguably Brazil is the place to be to do just that as that's where the best players on the planet will actually be playing. I really wonder how some fans minds actually work at times.

I can't see many players competing in the World Cup coming to Easter Road next season. Would not imagine there will be many hoofball merchants there anyway.

[Gus Fring]

Not buying it. Football people always talk about how hard they work to get deals done during the transfer window... for me that work should have already started.

Having said that, I hope the only reason we haven't got rid of Butcher yet is that we're waiting for the new CEO to sign the order. Then he can do whatever he likes.

It will have started. And he can work hard wherever he is. His location is largely irrelevant. He lives in North Berwick and the team plays in Edinburgh, if he's signing a player that lives in London or Madrid what difference does it make where Terry is? It's all done by phone and email.

[Captain Trips]

Perhaps he fancies being a beach towel that eats Pot Noodles.

[johnbc70]

Assuming he is our manager next season I do find it strange that people seem not that bothered he is heading to Brazil for what could be a month, assuming he is there from game 1 to the final on the 13th July. What if his targets have changed their mind now we are in the Championship, what if his first, second and third choices get better offers from elsewhere (we know this happens regularly and we miss out on players quite a lot) what if the player wants to see TB eye to eye before committing to moving to a different city and potentially uprooting his family as well? "Just hang on a few weeks will you until Tel gets back from Brazil and then you can meet your new boss" that would be a great way to attract a player to our club.

Where else would you find a company in crisis and the main man who is in charge of the department that is in big trouble being 6,000 miles away? TB needs to be at East Mains or Easter Road and be tackling this shambles head on, planning every single detail of next season and leaving nothing to chance.

[Dr Jimmy]

Very much so JD and LD should just be getting on with the contract and signing business. Its not as if there is any football on here at the moment to be scouting. In fact arguably Brazil is the place to be to do just that as that's where the best players on the planet will actually be playing. I really wonder how some fans minds actually work at times.

What if a signing target wants to speak to the manager? Where he sees him playing in the side, how the side will set up etc.
surely TB should be here to do that no???

[kaimendhibs]

Assuming he is our manager next season I do find it strange that people seem not that bothered he is heading to Brazil for what could be a month, assuming he is there from game 1 to the final on the 13th July. What if his targets have changed their mind now we are in the Championship, what if his first, second and third choices get better offers from elsewhere (we know this happens regularly and we miss out on players quite a lot) what if the player wants to see TB eye to eye before committing to moving to a different city and potentially uprooting his family as well? "Just hang on a few weeks will you until Tel gets back from Brazil and then you can meet your new boss" that would be a great way to attract a player to our club.

Where else would you find a company in crisis and the main man who is in charge of the department that is in big trouble being 6,000 miles away? TB needs to be at East Mains or Easter Road and be tackling this shambles head on, planning every single detail of next season and leaving nothing to chance.

10/10. Our club is in the mire and loads are happy for our manager to be miles away ( if it were my decision it would be permanent but...) when we should be rebuilding. Why would anyone buy a season ticket for this mess?


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[Greenblood70]

I'll pay him to stay in Brazil. Hold him as culpable as the players and Petrie for our position. His position is untenable in my opinion.


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[IberianHibernian]

I`d imagine he`ll be getting paid as much for a couple of weeks at WC as he gets from us in a year and will have made it a condition to be away during negotiations when he joined us . In purely financial terms this media work will be more important to him than Hibs as it also keeps him in the spotlight so he doesn`t lose contact with English clubs ( though his record there as in Australia is far from great ) . Last year we played our first friendly a month after the cup final so I suppose Fenlon had almost no holiday as there was some training and signings etc. IF Butcher is still with us and we make a bad start to season , being away in close season will give critics an extra reason to attack him . Hopefully he`ll have left before the WC starts and we can start search for new manager .

[johnbc70]

It will have started. And he can work hard wherever he is. His location is largely irrelevant. He lives in North Berwick and the team plays in Edinburgh, if he's signing a player that lives in London or Madrid what difference does it make where Terry is? It's all done by phone and email.

Location is completely relevant. I do not know what job you do but if there was crisis and you were in charge how do you think your customers and employees would perceive the fact that you would rather be 6,000 miles away and manage the crisis over the phone and email. Not very impressed I would suggest. Now how would your customers and employees feel if you were in the company HQ and visible every day being seen to do everything you can to resolve the crisis and leading from the front, not over the phone or by email. I think they would prefer to see you there in person every day doing all you can to sort the mess out.

Hibs are in crisis and TB is in charge of the first team, a leader in a crisis situation needs to do 4 things:

1) Take full responsibility
2) Be visible and in the forefront of action and decision-making
3) Solve the problem
4) Lead by example

I fail to see how he can do this effectively 6,000 miles away and via phone calls and emails.

[Gus]

The WC starts in 2 weeks, he has that time to make signings and speak to agents etc......let's see who he brings in

[Shields Hibee]

I hope the media give him a right old hard time for our situation. It will be interesting to hear his take on things & how awfully sorry he is etc.

Most of the players playing in the WC will be out of price range so can't call it scouting mission. My view is TB shouldn't be allowed to go to Brazil after the season we've had, he should be staying in the UK preparing for next season.

Poor manager but even worse a pundit!

[johnbc70]

The WC starts in 2 weeks, he has that time to make signings and speak to agents etc......let's see who he brings in

And what if a player says I have a few offers on the table, give me a week to think about it. The week passes and he wants to meet TB to find out more about his plans for him in the team and how the team will be set up. For this player moving to Edinburgh and uprooting his family is a big deal so he wants to be 100% certain it is the right move for him and his career. So Hibs say to this player "oh sorry Terry is in Brazil now but why don't you email him with your questions as there is internet in Brazil you know, or give him a call but mind the time difference won't you, don't want to wake him too early" In the meantime the manager of another club that wants to sign him makes a personal visit to him and offers him an invite to show him and his family around the club/city personally and on the back of this he signs for them. Might not happen, then again it might, why take that risk? We are not in a position to take any chances when it comes to preparing for next season.

[IberianHibernian]

The WC starts in 2 weeks, he has that time to make signings and speak to agents etc......let's see who he brings inIn our current situation with uncertainty about who will be running the club on and off the pitch , how many half decent players would commit to us without waiting to see what other offers are available ? ( always the case but more so this year ) . I suspect a considerable amount of money raised from cup final and STs was kept aside for Butcher ( compensation ) last autumn instead of being spent in summer when we had to replace Griffiths , Claros and Doyle and he wasted a bit but not much in winter cause he hoped to spend a lot in summer without counting on relegation ,awful football not being acceptable at Hibernian and his general unpopularity . So we paid high salary to him and his assistants plus compensation to ICT and let him do media work . Catalogue of errors and noone`s resigned !

[KanyeWestLower]

Location is completely relevant. I do not know what job you do but if there was crisis and you were in charge how do you think your customers and employees would perceive the fact that you would rather be 6,000 miles away and manage the crisis over the phone and email. Not very impressed I would suggest. Now how would your customers and employees feel if you were in the company HQ and visible every day being seen to do everything you can to resolve the crisis and leading from the front, not over the phone or by email. I think they would prefer to see you there in person every day doing all you can to sort the mess out.

Hibs are in crisis and TB is in charge of the first team, a leader in a crisis situation needs to do 4 things:

1) Take full responsibility
2) Be visible and in the forefront of action and decision-making
3) Solve the problem
4) Lead by example

I fail to see how he can do this effectively 6,000 miles away and via phone calls and emails.

Spot on Sir.
If he is not in and around East Mains all summer (With the exception of his planned annual leave) then he makes his position untenable. There may well be contractual obligations between TB and who he will be working for and no doubt RP agreed to honour any pre existing arrangements between TB and whomever.

However, morally TB has to remain in Edinburgh to lead his back room to ensure we are in the best possible shape for the middle of July, surely he understands that.

[monktonharp]

The WC starts in 2 weeks, he has that time to make signings and speak to agents etc......let's see who he brings in
so he has 2 weeks to bring new players in? then with the WC period,he has to wait before he can arrange anything,then new players alredy approached will have time to reflect and head off into the sunset. by all accounts, or at least a good number of rumours,he was the man that told approx. 10 players weeks ago they had no future at HFC which imho possibly lead to the nosedive we took over the last 3 months. I can not see one positive thing coming our way, if he is indeed going to the world cup!

[Dashing Bob S]

He's gone over to sign two World Cup stars...

[GreenLake]

He's gone over to sign two World Cup stars...

Maradona must know of a few up and coming players and he owes Butcher a favor. Maybe he can give him a hand.

[Heedersnvolleys]

What should he be doing that is a bigger priority? What's he going to do here? There isn't games to be looking at players over here. I am at a loss to know what you actually expect. Should he be locked away in east mains till the season starts? I don't understand how going to the world cup is taking the piss. All the best players on the [planet will be there. He might just persuade one or two that Hibs is a good bet to eventually get access to the Englandshire Premiership.

Lex if he manages to attract the ball boy he will be doing well, you live in dreamland if you think he can bring anybody from that tournament to play at Dumbarton come the start of the season. I hear it is 12 weeks to the start of the new season in our new adventure so he will be as I said on another post probably on a family just now then 4 weeks at the World Cup so you think it is right that he spends half of the close season away from the club he is contracted too after he has been responsible for the disaster that has just happened and another massive rebuilding of the squad is required. Which will not be rebuilt by World Cup stars but probably English lower league players which because of his disaster we will be in an even less of a bargaining position to offer a decent wage. So the difference whether we land a player or not could actually come down to our manager being able to meet said player face to face and show him our undoubtably great facilities and try not to give it away though he will be playing on a pitch with a stock car track around it at some point. I just don't think people are grasping how difficult it is going to be to attract players to our club now especially the amount we may need.

[Delboy4]

Lex if he manages to attract the ball boy he will be doing well, you live in dreamland if you think he can bring anybody from that tournament to play at Dumbarton come the start of the season. I hear it is 12 weeks to the start of the new season in our new adventure so he will be as I said on another post probably on a family just now then 4 weeks at the World Cup so you think it is right that he spends half of the close season away from the club he is contracted too after he has been responsible for the disaster that has just happened and another massive rebuilding of the squad is required. Which will not be rebuilt by World Cup stars but probably English lower league players which because of his disaster we will be in an even less of a bargaining position to offer a decent wage. So the difference whether we land a player or not could actually come down to our manager being able to meet said player face to face and show him our undoubtably great facilities and try not to give it away though he will be playing on a pitch with a stock car track around it at some point. I just don't think people are grasping how difficult it is going to be to attract players to our club now especially the amount we may need.


100% agree with you. I'm an agent and I can't see any big names kicking TB door down wanting to sign for Hibs!

The club is a laughing stock at the moment. I had two players at Hibs and they were actually glad to go because of the so called management team. There's even players who were kept that want out of their contracts! The club is in a total mess...now I'm not saying it's all TB fault but the players were not all wanting to jump ship last season, something has drastically went wrong, somewhere.

Speaking as a Hibs supporter now, I cannot believe he is still going to go to Brazil as there is some hell of a work to do from now until the start of the season. He should be there in person to sell the club to the future players he needs to bring in. When I'm with players signing, the gaffers are there at least 95% of the time - the players are big kids, they need to know that they are wanted by the gaffer and they do have questions to ask him. So, I hope he has it all in hand because after all, I am a Hibby and want the best for my team.

Time will tell.

GGTTH

[Hibrandenburg]

Going against the grain but here we go.

Managers in all other industries take part in trade fairs, exhibitions and international conferences to better their knowledge of the job, procedures and expand their knowledge and contacts in their respective fields. Why shouldn't a football manager (even at our level) try and expand his horizons. Surely if TB gains experience from the greatest football fair in the world it would benefit Hibs?

[Hibrandenburg]

100% agree with you. I'm an agent and I can't see any big names kicking TB door down wanting to sign for Hibs!

The club is a laughing stock at the moment. I had two players at Hibs and they were actually glad to go because of the so called management team. There's even players who were kept that want out of their contracts! The club is in a total mess...now I'm not saying it's all TB fault but the players were not all wanting to jump ship last season, something has drastically went wrong, somewhere.

Speaking as a Hibs supporter now, I cannot believe he is still going to go to Brazil as there is some hell of a work to do from now until the start of the season. He should be there in person to sell the club to the future players he needs to bring in. When I'm with players signing, the gaffers are there at least 95% of the time - the players are big kids, they need to know that they are wanted by the gaffer and they do have questions to ask him. So, I hope he has it all in hand because after all, I am a Hibby and want the best for my team.

Time will tell.

GGTTH

95% There's that number again.

[The Leith Dutch]

Going against the grain but here we go.

Managers in all other industries take part in trade fairs, exhibitions and international conferences to better their knowledge of the job, procedures and expand their knowledge and contacts in their respective fields. Why shouldn't a football manager (even at our level) try and expand his horizons. Surely if TB gains experience from the greatest football fair in the world it would benefit Hibs?

I get where you're coming from up to a point but with 10 weeks left till the first game of the season and something approximating a complete rebuild of the club required in terms of both personel and approach I just think that if he's not going to resign or be sacked then we can't afford to have him spending 4 weeks in Brazil.....

[Hibrandenburg]

I get where you're coming from up to a point but with 10 weeks left till the first game of the season and something approximating a complete rebuild of the club required in terms of both personel and approach I just think that if he's not going to resign or be sacked then we can't afford to have him spending 4 weeks in Brazil.....

If he's traveling with the England team then he'll be back before you can say "Penalty Shootout". :greengrin

[johnbc70]

Going against the grain but here we go.

Managers in all other industries take part in trade fairs, exhibitions and international conferences to better their knowledge of the job, procedures and expand their knowledge and contacts in their respective fields. Why shouldn't a football manager (even at our level) try and expand his horizons. Surely if TB gains experience from the greatest football fair in the world it would benefit Hibs?

But are the managers in these other industries facing their biggest crisis in years? Unlikely.

Let's be honest he is going to gain very little that will benefit Hibs from being in Brazil.

[The Leith Dutch]

If he's traveling with the England team then he'll be back before you can say "Penalty Shootout". :greengrin

*grins*

Would be just our luck if they went on and won the bloody thing mind......

[PatHead]

Does anyone know if he is going or is this like the Hibs in Tenerife thread when they were actually at the Spartans Ground/George Street?

[PatHead]

Not on the BBC list.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/worldcup2014/biogs

Not on ITV list.

http://www.itv.com/worldcup/itv-announce-2014-world-cup-coverage-details-andros-townsend-joins-team-of-pundits

[Just Alf]

Good point PH

Someone mentioned 5live...

I used to set up outside broadcasts etc and sometimes the radio pundits weren't even at the game! They had access to the streams coming from the various cameras around the ground... Maybe if he is involved he'll not be too far away after all?

[The Green Goblin]

Not on the BBC list.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/worldcup2014/biogs

Not on ITV list.

http://www.itv.com/worldcup/itv-announce-2014-world-cup-coverage-details-andros-townsend-joins-team-of-pundits


Doesn`t he do his punditry on 5 Live/Talksport or something like that?

[Captain Trips]

Doesn`t he do his punditry on 5 Live/Talksport or something like that?

"I reckon Brazil would best lumping it straight up to Neymar"

You got any tickets for games GG?

[bookert]

;4038968']Get ****ed. Transfers rarely happen during the World Cup and anyway he's got a whole team here whom he trusts.

He's probably already identified every signing he wants anyway.
Aye worked well in JanuaryI

[The_Horde]

Aye worked well in JanuaryI

I hope you realise how little sense that post makes.

[The Green Goblin]

"I reckon Brazil would best lumping it straight up to Neymar"

You got any tickets for games GG?

Sorry Carlsberg, just saw this post now. I could have done, and lots of my work colleagues have them, but I just can`t in all good conscience support this WC.

The government has built 12 stadiums costing $8bn, using 90% of taxpayers money, when they promised they wouldn`t use any taxpayers` money, with most of those same stadium costs sometimes reaching 10-20 times what they should have done due to fraudulent billing and corrupt officials.

There will be almost zero infrastructure legacy or improvement (various high level airport/metro/train projects have either failed or been abandoned mid-way through, although vast sums of money have still changed hands to pay for them). The much advertised Sao Paulo Metro development, which began 5 years ago, is already years behind schedule and the rumour is that they have deliberately slowed down finishing the new stations/line to allow the property value around the stations to increase to maximise sell-on profit for the various businesses and politicians who bought up the property in advance of the work beginning. Stuff you couldn`t make up.

Many stadium workers being rushed in to help complete the behind-schedule stadiums working 24 hrs in poor safety conditions have not been paid for weeks and to top it all off, FIFA and other companies like McDonalds and a number of local banks will be making and taking billions of dollars out of a country where countless millions live in poverty.

I just can`t support that, when I see what I see every day of my life on the streets etc. As hypocritical of me as it probably is, I`ll no doubt watch lots of the games on tv, but there we go. I do predict many serious problems during the month the WC will take place though and we will be hearing about those in time. I can`t speak for the rest of Brazil, but SP is coming apart at the seams: demonstrations, a crumbling public transport system, police strikes, airports which are not ready and were built for 1970s passenger numbers and luggage etc. 500km of traffic congestion the other day (yes, 500!), an increase in crime and so on. Those are the highlights, but basically I see a very different picture to the one I expect the media is putting out.

So, I`m heading back to Edinburgh on June 16th - deliberately a few days after the WC starts, to allow the airport to hopefully recover from its impending collapse from being unable to process the numbers coming in - and taking some much needed time at home in Scotland until the end of July. :cb

[Lewis77]

Is he going there to live?

[majorhibs]

Sorry Carlsberg, just saw this post now. I could have done, and lots of my work colleagues have them, but I just can`t in all good conscience support this WC.

The government has built 12 stadiums costing $8bn, using 90% of taxpayers money, when they promised they wouldn`t use any taxpayers` money, with most of those same stadium costs sometimes reaching 10-20 times what they should have done due to fraudulent billing and corrupt officials.

There will be almost zero infrastructure legacy or improvement (various high level airport/metro/train projects have either failed or been abandoned mid-way through, although vast sums of money have still changed hands to pay for them). The much advertised Sao Paulo Metro development, which began 5 years ago, is already years behind schedule and the rumour is that they have deliberately slowed down finishing the new stations/line to allow the property value around the stations to increase to maximise sell-on profit for the various businesses and politicians who bought up the property in advance of the work beginning. Stuff you couldn`t make up.

Many stadium workers being rushed in to help complete the behind-schedule stadiums working 24 hrs in poor safety conditions have not been paid for weeks and to top it all off, FIFA and other companies like McDonalds and a number of local banks will be making and taking billions of dollars out of a country where countless millions live in poverty.

I just can`t support that, when I see what I see every day of my life on the streets etc. As hypocritical of me as it probably is, I`ll no doubt watch lots of the games on tv, but there we go. I do predict many serious problems during the month the WC will take place though and we will be hearing about those in time. I can`t speak for the rest of Brazil, but SP is coming apart at the seams: demonstrations, a crumbling public transport system, police strikes, airports which are not ready and were built for 1970s passenger numbers and luggage etc. 500km of traffic congestion the other day (yes, 500!), an increase in crime and so on. Those are the highlights, but basically I see a very different picture to the one I expect the media is putting out. J

So, I`m heading back to Edinburgh on June 16th - deliberately a few days after the WC starts, to allow the airport to hopefully recover from its impending collapse from being unable to process the numbers coming in - and taking some much needed time at home in Scotland until the end of July. :cb

I use GIG Rio airport so dont see it, but guys from my work have just come through Sao Paolo int. where they tell me there is a brand new, very smart new terminal. I have been using the new metro at Ipanema/copacabana, general osorio D, since it opened a few months ago, very handy. While a lot of what you say is true, you & many others are highlighting negatives only. There is some things completed & improved but they are not high on many peoples priorities. Brazil had many problems before, fair enough theres plenty corruption going on with the W.C. & Olympics, but they are not solely to blame for all the countries ills, although sometimes it seems like that is whats being implied.

[The Green Goblin]

I use GIG Rio airport so dont see it, but guys from my work have just come through Sao Paolo int. where they tell me there is a brand new, very smart new terminal. I have been using the new metro at Ipanema/copacabana, general osorio D, since it opened a few months ago, very handy. While a lot of what you say is true, you & many others are highlighting negatives only. There is some things completed & improved but they are not high on many peoples priorities. Brazil had many problems before, fair enough theres plenty corruption going on with the W.C. & Olympics, but they are not solely to blame for all the countries ills, although sometimes it seems like that is whats being implied.

There is a new terminal (I have been there) and it is quite smart, but it is tiny; just 4 luggage conveyer belts, I think and it handles internal SA flights only. The development to the main airport terminals will not be completed in time for the cup. As I said in my post, I can`t speak for other cities, but SP is crumbling. I am not implying that it is the world cup/olympics which is to blame at all. My point was clearly that a country which suffers the problems that Brazil does should not be spending $8bn on building world cup stadiums when millions of its people are starving and living in shacks and its health, education, social and transport systems are falling apart and in desperate need of investment.

[The Green Goblin]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2014/world-cup-2014-public-anger-3618122

He was reflecting on another day of protest, replicated in cities across Brazil, against a World Cup that has become the focal point for public sector workers and political activists (http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/2014%20world%20cup) angry that £11 billion is being spent by politicians and their corrupt lackeys to keep FIFA happy, while their health, education and transport budgets are decimated.
As 20,000 took to the streets amid calls for a general strike, the most popular banner read “Na Copa vai ter luta” (the World Cup will have protests). These are people battered by austerity and depleted services, enraged that only 10% of the public transport projects (which was sold as the World Cup’s main legacy) have been completed and white elephants, like the stadium in Brasilia, which has no top-flight team to play in it after the tournament, cost £600 million.
Speaking to Sport Recife fans at a home game in November, the general feeling was that although they were pleased Brazil was hosting the World Cup, it wasn’t for them. The ticket prices, the new stadiums (Recife’s has been built 20 kilometres outside their gridlocked city) were aimed at rich Brazilians, tourists and the wider world.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/anti-world-cup-protests-across-brazil

Carrying banners declaring “Na Copa vai ter luta” (The Cup will have protests), appeals for a general strike and claims that the cost of refurbishing the Maracanã stadium could pay for 200 schools, the demonstrators rallied with striking workers in the broadest show of dissent in several months.
Many of those present cited the proximity of the tournament and the global media attention it brings as a driver for their actions.
“The world is looking to Brazil and we are showing that the World Cup doesn’t represent us,” said Felipe Mesquita, a history student at the Fluminense Federal University. “I like football. I like the national team but we also have to think about what the World Cup means. We shouldn’t accept all the bad things that go with it such as forced relocations and the limits on rights to protest and strike.”
In São Paulo police used tear gas and rubber bullets against demonstrators. In Belo Horizonte about 2,000 people took to the streets. In Brasilia protesters carried banners decrying the deaths of stadium workers in the rush to finish before the tournament.
Brazil has also been hit by a wave of strikes in recent weeks. Teachers in Rio have halted classes for several days to call for better pay and working conditions. They were joined on Thursday by bus drivers, who had refused to work on Tuesday and Wednesday.
In past years many neighbourhoods joined in competitions to produce street art in support of the national team. But relatively few communities have painted the roads green and yellow or festooned the streets with bunting.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/10133833/Brazil-World-Cup-protests-teenager-dies-as-a-million-people-take-to-the-streets.html

http://rt.com/news/162672-brazil-world-cup-protests/

[majorhibs]

There is a new terminal (I have been there) and it is quite smart, but it is tiny; just 4 luggage conveyer belts, I think and it handles internal SA flights only. The development to the main airport terminals will not be completed in time for the cup. As I said in my post, I can`t speak for other cities, but SP is crumbling. I am not implying that it is the world cup/olympics which is to blame at all. My point was clearly that a country which suffers the problems that Brazil does should not be spending $8bn on building world cup stadiums when millions of its people are starving and living in shacks and its health, education, social and transport systems are falling apart and in desperate need of investment.

Aye fair enough G.G. just wasted a few days reading Dave Zirin, alleged American sports journos book Brazils dance with the Devil in which instead of covering World Cups & Olympics like hes supposed to he slates FIFA, the IOC, the world cup & Brazil & particularly seems to try to make a case against the world cup & Brazil & how they are pulling down Rios favelas just to make money & accomodate the WC, having got caught in the middle of last months nonsense which spilled over from the favela into Copacabana for the best part of a week I am a bit down on favelas at the moment & it just seems to me like everywhere I turn every problem & every grievance seems to be against FIFA & the World Cup, yes plenty bad & corrupt is going on, as has been the case many times before, but I personally have seem SOME good & some effort, there is plenty people need to be brought to account but just now & then it would be good to recognise the efforts of some genuine people & some improvements for a wee change. Anyway, back on topic if Butcher is attending the W.C. Then hopefully he will realise his true vocation alongside the other pundits & jack in the day job, I can advise him of a few not to be missed nightclubs in Rio to make sure he isnae homesick or anything, & Hibs can begin to look for a real, competent manager to get on with the serious job of actually winning a game or two, especially considering who were gonna be facing in the league shortly. With an actual, genuine knowledgable football person running the team next season, someone who gives real optimism & not ifs buts & excuses, it could be a huge not to be missed rollercoaster season, but IMO with the imposters from last season it would end up a damp squib. Butchers got to go for me.

[The goalie]

Aye fair enough G.G. just wasted a few days reading Dave Zirin, alleged American sports journos book Brazils dance with the Devil in which instead of covering World Cups & Olympics like hes supposed to he slates FIFA, the IOC, the world cup & Brazil & particularly seems to try to make a case against the world cup & Brazil & how they are pulling down Rios favelas just to make money & accomodate the WC, having got caught in the middle of last months nonsense which spilled over from the favela into Copacabana for the best part of a week I am a bit down on favelas at the moment & it just seems to me like everywhere I turn every problem & every grievance seems to be against FIFA & the World Cup, yes plenty bad & corrupt is going on, as has been the case many times before, but I personally have seem SOME good & some effort, there is plenty people need to be brought to account but just now & then it would be good to recognise the efforts of some genuine people & some improvements for a wee change. Anyway, back on topic if Butcher is attending the W.C. Then hopefully he will realise his true vocation alongside the other pundits & jack in the day job, I can advise him of a few not to be missed nightclubs in Rio to make sure he isnae homesick or anything, & Hibs can begin to look for a real, competent manager to get on with the serious job of actually winning a game or two, especially considering who were gonna be facing in the league shortly. With an actual, genuine knowledgable football person running the team next season, someone who gives real optimism & not ifs buts & excuses, it could be a huge not to be missed rollercoaster season, but IMO with the imposters from last season it would end up a damp squib. Butchers got to go for me.

Well at least we now know Terry is going there to sort out the huge socioeconomic issues! Because it can be heehaw related to football management that's for sure!:)

[The Green Goblin]

Aye fair enough G.G. just wasted a few days reading Dave Zirin, alleged American sports journos book Brazils dance with the Devil in which instead of covering World Cups & Olympics like hes supposed to he slates FIFA, the IOC, the world cup & Brazil & particularly seems to try to make a case against the world cup & Brazil & how they are pulling down Rios favelas just to make money & accomodate the WC, having got caught in the middle of last months nonsense which spilled over from the favela into Copacabana for the best part of a week I am a bit down on favelas at the moment & it just seems to me like everywhere I turn every problem & every grievance seems to be against FIFA & the World Cup, yes plenty bad & corrupt is going on, as has been the case many times before, but I personally have seem SOME good & some effort, there is plenty people need to be brought to account but just now & then it would be good to recognise the efforts of some genuine people & some improvements for a wee change. Anyway, back on topic if Butcher is attending the W.C. Then hopefully he will realise his true vocation alongside the other pundits & jack in the day job, I can advise him of a few not to be missed nightclubs in Rio to make sure he isnae homesick or anything, & Hibs can begin to look for a real, competent manager to get on with the serious job of actually winning a game or two, especially considering who were gonna be facing in the league shortly. With an actual, genuine knowledgable football person running the team next season, someone who gives real optimism & not ifs buts & excuses, it could be a huge not to be missed rollercoaster season, but IMO with the imposters from last season it would end up a damp squib. Butchers got to go for me.

Hi and cheers for the reply. I will be sure to check out the Zirin book you mentioned. It sounds interesting. And you are so right, there are so many people who try to make things better and I totally take your point about recognising some of the good that happens. Some of the kids I work with are involved in the TETO project, where volunteers spend a weekend building families in the favelas a new (kit) home with running water. There`s a really nice video about the project here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDvgi1QhVcw You can switch on the English captions on the video for the translation.

I know I have probably only come across as negative, but it`s just anger and frustration, that time and time again, those with the power and money fall so far short in terms of what they could do to help people. So much money that could help people is simply stolen by those who already have so much. The World Cup for me is a kind of mega-example of this, hence my passionate stance against it. But I thank you for reminder to focus on those who do change peoples` lives for the better.

I read about the problems at Copacabana last month and it sounded absolutely mental.

I agree re: Butcher, even if he has built sides in this situation before, it should never have come to this, but then the whole club is in such a terrible mess. It`s very sad really.

I`m guessing you don`t make it down to SP, but if you do, drop me a pm and I`ll buy you a beer. Cheers. GG

[Viva_Palmeiras]

There is a new terminal (I have been there) and it is quite smart, but it is tiny; just 4 luggage conveyer belts, I think and it handles internal SA flights only. The development to the main airport terminals will not be completed in time for the cup. As I said in my post, I can`t speak for other cities, but SP is crumbling. I am not implying that it is the world cup/olympics which is to blame at all. My point was clearly that a country which suffers the problems that Brazil does should not be spending $8bn on building world cup stadiums when millions of its people are starving and living in shacks and its health, education, social and transport systems are falling apart and in desperate need of investment.

For me I thnk the wider point is that Brasil has been booming off the back of a number of thjngs including the WC and Olympics. Rather than PMing the pockets and misapproproation of funds the public are rightly demanding that some investment in key areas MUST happen or social injustice continues unabated. Many votes the PT in are of the poor and they are probably scratching their heads thinking they've been short-changed.

BTW re São Paulo Airport afaik the parking problem is unsolved. Instead of one in/out when full access is permitted so you have cars cruising around without a space to find - nuts.

There re will also likely be grid-lock in some of the ne places that won't cope with the traffic - this was averted in the ConCaf pre-WC tourney by paying locals to take a holiday ....