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View Full Version : How do we build a new team in 12 weeks?



timewilltell
28-05-2014, 02:15 PM
Whilst there is much talk about ousting Petrie, Butcher or both, the fact remains that the new campaign in the Championship starts in less than 12 weeks or so.

Changing the manager at this stage in my opinion will delay our start, I assume Butcher has targets and the players need time to work together before the season starts. I, like most on here am unhappy with Petrie, however I worry that all this talk of boycotts etc merely distracts us from being ready for the new season. We must get off to a good start.

Both The Rangers and Hearts players know one another, hearts players have been together most of the season and that was reflected in some of their recent results.

Lets just assume (and it's a big assumption) that Butcher signs up all the players we want in the next 4 weeks. Is that really enough time to get them working together and understanding not only each other but how to play together as a unit? (We don't even have a goalkeeper on our books!).

we are all hurting but let's not get distracted. We need to stay focused on starting well and getting this once great club back up where it belongs.:flag:

Nutmegged
28-05-2014, 02:18 PM
Changing the manager may delay our start but what damage will it do to our finish if we actually stick with the manager?

The further you go knowing you're headed in the wrong direction the longer it takes you to finally get back on the road.

cleanyman
28-05-2014, 02:21 PM
Butcher has relegated one of the biggest teams in Scotland along with relegating ICT and finishing 12th with Motherwell. That's an embarrassing record.

He has to be sacked along with Petrie, only then can we properly rebuild

houstonhibbee
28-05-2014, 02:21 PM
Very valid points. Hearts have a well organized unit that will do well in the Championship and are ready to go. We will have a handle of players at best with first team experience.

Allan45
28-05-2014, 02:21 PM
Whilst there is much talk about ousting Petrie, Butcher or both, the fact remains that the new campaign in the Championship starts in less than 12 weeks or so.

Changing the manager at this stage in my opinion will delay our start, I assume Butcher has targets and the players need time to work together before the season starts. I, like most on here am unhappy with Petrie, however I worry that all this talk of boycotts etc merely distracts us from being ready for the new season. We must get off to a good start.

Both The Rangers and Hearts players know one another, hearts players have been together most of the season and that was reflected in some of their recent results.

Lets just assume (and it's a big assumption) that Butcher signs up all the players we want in the next 4 weeks. Is that really enough time to get them working together and understanding not only each other but how to play together as a unit? (We don't even have a goalkeeper on our books!).

we are all hurting but let's not get distracted. We need to stay focused on starting well and getting this once great club back up where it belongs.:flag:

I like most of what you have said, if Butcher goes IMO it will be even harder to get off to a good start. We have to trust him to get his own players in the next 4 weeks, and there needs to be quality in all players that he brings in. They will certainly need to gel together quickly. This season coming up will be hard for all of us.
we will see pre-season where we are and capable of in the next 4 months.........:cb

nribs
28-05-2014, 02:22 PM
He may have had targets but most of them would have been for the top league on a top league budget. That has now changed so he probably doesn't have a clue who he needs/wants.

GreenPJ
28-05-2014, 02:24 PM
He may have had targets but most of them would have been for the top league on a top league budget. That has now changed so he probably doesn't have a clue who he needs/wants.

Do we know definitively that the transfer budget has changed?

davcar
28-05-2014, 02:25 PM
In reality it's probably less than 12 weeks to preseason, players will shuffle of on holiday, Butcher if still with us is doing work at the World Cup and will be entitled to a holiday, can he still afford to do both?
This IMO is why we need clarity on the situation ASAP.
If Petrie walks and allows Dempster full control, and Butchers top targets are allowed to sign then I'd be completely amazed but this would allow a degree of stability to return to the club.
Can I see that happen, no!

BOB MARLEYS DUG
28-05-2014, 02:25 PM
Butcher has relegated one of the biggest teams in Scotland along with relegating ICT and finishing 12th with Motherwell. That's an embarrassing record.

He has to be sacked along with Petrie, only then can we properly rebuild

Gotta agree with this.

greenpaper55
28-05-2014, 02:28 PM
Do we know definitively that the transfer budget has changed?

You have the added problem of players not wanting to play in a lower league, you have to be smart to get players to play for you in that league and smart is not the word that springs to mind when you think of who we have in charge !.

DarrenSQH
28-05-2014, 02:31 PM
Our First game is Less than 2 months away I thought?

I know other Championship teams start preseason on the 23rd of June.

Ozyhibby
28-05-2014, 02:34 PM
Unless Petrie and Butcher are gone I don't give two hoots about next season.

jacomo
28-05-2014, 02:38 PM
Changing the manager may delay our start but what damage will it do to our finish if we actually stick with the manager?

The further you go knowing you're headed in the wrong direction the longer it takes you to finally get back on the road.


Butcher has relegated one of the biggest teams in Scotland along with relegating ICT and finishing 12th with Motherwell. That's an embarrassing record.

He has to be sacked along with Petrie, only then can we properly rebuild

Afraid so. Both Hearts and Rangers have had since around New Year to make plans for the Championship. We now have no contracted goalkeepers (I think?), have lost three loanees (no great loss) and besides the others that have gone there's a risk that Stanton etc might now want out.

We're in a real mess. But Butcher and Petrie are primarily responsible for that. Petrie is handing over to the new CEO and I suppose we have to let that process take shape. I want Butcher out.

Hibiza
28-05-2014, 02:39 PM
Buy the Dumbarton one c/w manager.

stokesmessiah
28-05-2014, 02:42 PM
I know it has been alluded to on here previously but i have also heard that whilst the situation seems quite desperate to us, they are in fact quite far on with a large number of targets. The number i heard was 14 and that would be combined with what Butcher is looking to keep - Hanlon, Forster, Booth, Stanton, Robertson,Tudor Jones, Caldwell, Handling & Cummings. There may of course also be some of the dregs left over that we cant get rid of but they have all had wages dropped and told they will play no part and to find new clubs.

iainm1875
28-05-2014, 02:42 PM
Hearts are I'm the same boat as us. They emptied half their squad as well. Over to the goalkeeping coach to see if he's half of what he was cracked up to be.


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nribs
28-05-2014, 02:44 PM
Do we know definitively that the transfer budget has changed?

No we don't know for definate I am going on reports on here and gut feeling. Income will have reduced considerably and RP likes his wages etc to be something like 65% of turnover which would suggest there is a very good chance of the budget being reduced unless we speculate to ensure we gain promotion.

hibs0666
28-05-2014, 02:56 PM
When is our pre season due to start?

cleanyman
28-05-2014, 03:00 PM
When is our pre season due to start?

Majority of clubs are 1st July for training.

eggbamyasi
28-05-2014, 03:03 PM
Unless Petrie and Butcher are gone I don't give two hoots about next season.

So if butcher isn't gone and were doing well with new squad you will not be on here or going to any games or comment on anything hibs at all ?

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nribs
28-05-2014, 03:16 PM
So if butcher isn't gone and were doing well with new squad you will not be on here or going to any games or comment on anything hibs at all ?

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He's a football fan and is angry upset and is allowed to change his mind at a moment's notice. I would doubt there are many people on here who have promised not to return or back a manager but the pull of Hibs is to great for some.

eggbamyasi
28-05-2014, 03:18 PM
He's a football fan and is angry upset and is allowed to change his mind at a moment's notice. I would doubt there are many people on here who have promised not to return or back a manager but the pull of Hibs is to great for some.

Fair enough . just pointless post on an actual intresting thread . But what you say is right .

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Hibeesmad
28-05-2014, 03:22 PM
Hopefully Butcher does the same as what he done at Inverness and bring in a few gems from the lower leagues in England, hopefully with a few experienced players too. Maybe players will be interested in the challenge which lays ahead and the prospect of playing Hearts and Rangers?

There will also be a lot of talk that the Championship will be better than the premiership next season so hopefully that can attract a few players too

Ozyhibby
28-05-2014, 03:23 PM
So if butcher isn't gone and were doing well with new squad you will not be on here or going to any games or comment on anything hibs at all ?

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You will have to prize my right to bitch and moan from my cold dead hands.
But if Butcher and Petrie remain in post then I won't be attending games next season.

Keith_M
28-05-2014, 03:27 PM
If Butcher carries through with going to the World Cup to commentate, instead of staying here to build for the new season, he can do one as far as I'm concerned.

He either accepts the size of the task he has created for himself or we get a new Manager in that can appreciate how important the job is.

weonlywon6-2
28-05-2014, 04:41 PM
Very valid points. Hearts have a well organized unit that will do well in the Championship and are ready to go. We will have a handle of players at best with first team experience.

Hearts have binned three experienced players leaving younger players,yes they have played together and are further forward than us but they will have changes also

Alfred E Newman
28-05-2014, 05:20 PM
It looks like we will be in for another lengthy transitional period.

NAE NOOKIE
28-05-2014, 05:25 PM
If Butcher carries through with going to the World Cup to commentate, instead of staying here to build for the new season, he can do one as far as I'm concerned.

He either accepts the size of the task he has created for himself or we get a new Manager in that can appreciate how important the job is.

This for me too now ..... I was OK with it when it looked like we would stay up, but things are different .... he has a massive job on his hands and I don't care if he has access to every modern communication device on the planet in Brazil. His place is in Edinburgh showing the same commitment he is going to have to demand from his new team.

I wouldn't grudge him a week in Benidorm though.

As for building a new team capable of getting us out of the Championship he either needs the owners to step up with a decent budget or to spend the 4 weeks he was going to spend in Brazil taking a crash course at Hogwarts. I am very, very sad to say the latter is more likely.

erin go bragh
28-05-2014, 06:32 PM
If he can unearth another Sauzee / Latapy types . He can go where he wants and for as long as he wants .

Ggtth

madhatter
28-05-2014, 06:48 PM
Easy to build a team because players should have been lined up, even with relegation in mind - Rangers and Hearts will be able to attract players down to the Championship so no reason why we can't. It'd take only 1-3 weeks to sign most players. Especially as most clubs seem to negotiate quickly and get 2-5 in at a time. 6-8 players in with Collins, Heffernan, Tudur Jones, Robertson, Stevenson, Nelson, McGivern going, then I'm sure we can put a decent side together with our u-20s, these new players, Stanton, Harris (pre-season under his belt), Cummings and Booth.

We need to avoid questionable signings, we need to avoid proven journeyman. What we need is hungry hungry players. Players who want to succeed. Pacy, Strong and an ability to pass. Don't care where they come from.

Looking at the under-20s: Dunsmore, Baptie, Black, Gardiner, Todd, Beaton, Paul, Mulhall, Hendry, Doyle amongst others could do a job for our top team in the Championship and will be a decent learning curve. I'd much prefer to see our own than players who couldn't give a toss. I'm sure even in goals, Perntreau or Horne will be a decent substitute goallie. Give them turns even sitting on the bench (being involved match days).

I'd focus on Defence and Midfield as it's not goalscoring that's been our problem. It's making chances and stopping opposition scoring (inviting pressure on us over and over again). Midfield that can keep possession and Defence that can pass to Midfield and defend. Problem solved.

ballengeich
28-05-2014, 06:56 PM
I'd focus on Defence and Midfield as it's not goalscoring that's been our problem.

How do you come to that conclusion? We had the sixth best goals against tally in the premier division, but the fewest goals for. The defence's use of the ball is poor, but they do the defensive side of the job reasonably well.

I agree that we don't set up many chances for the forwards, so we need to add creative qualities in midfield, plus players to provide width.

madhatter
28-05-2014, 07:07 PM
How do you come to that conclusion? We had the sixth best goals against tally in the premier division, but the fewest goals for. The defence's use of the ball is poor, but they do the defensive side of the job reasonably well.

I agree that we don't set up many chances for the forwards, so we need to add creative qualities in midfield, plus players to provide width.

Look at Hamilton's goals - you cannot say good defending for either. Very poor. Scotland was celebrating and Nelson was still turning...
Also, most crucial part of defending is keeping the ball. This is especially crucial in own half. If defence and midfield cannot keep ball, if defence can't get ball to midfield then we'll lose more games than we should. A draw is better than a loss and if we could actually keep the ball, we wouldn't have been relegated.

Hamilton could have scored more, last ditch blocks are necessary but aren't indicative of good defending - last ditch is suggestive of either lack of pace, awareness, ability to turn, ability to monitor flight of ball, ability to mark and I have seen many last ditch blocks, tackles and goal keepers flying out at ER this year. Remember the goal we lost against Motherwell? The late equaliser in the 3-3 game. Good defending? Sadly not...

HibbiesandtheBaddies
28-05-2014, 07:23 PM
If Butcher carries through with going to the World Cup to commentate, instead of staying here to build for the new season, he can do one as far as I'm concerned.

He either accepts the size of the task he has created for himself or we get a new Manager in that can appreciate how important the job is.


I'd imagine his gig will be cancelled. Who would be able to take his chat seriously given that he managed to relegate us from a position of almost mid table security.

MacGruber
28-05-2014, 09:47 PM
RE rebuilding:

We have to hope Butcher/Marsella repeat the trick of unearthing gems - this much they do have a good record at in recent times.

Hearts are speaking to Darren MacGregor - he would be available for us to speak to aswell and there was a thread on the subject of whether or not we should go for him. Two much better centre halves are Gary Warren & Josh Meekings - not that they are available, but examples of players unearthed by TB/SM that would have been well within budget and would have jumped at Hibs from where they were. We need to hope if Hearts are signing the MacGregors, we are signing better. Repeat through the team.

Not really sure of all the success stories from Inverness - Aaron Doran and Billy MacKay are the obvious ones, plucked from the wilderness.

ballengeich
28-05-2014, 10:01 PM
Look at Hamilton's goals - you cannot say good defending for either. Very poor. Scotland was celebrating and Nelson was still turning...
Also, most crucial part of defending is keeping the ball. This is especially crucial in own half. If defence and midfield cannot keep ball, if defence can't get ball to midfield then we'll lose more games than we should. A draw is better than a loss and if we could actually keep the ball, we wouldn't have been relegated.

Hamilton could have scored more, last ditch blocks are necessary but aren't indicative of good defending - last ditch is suggestive of either lack of pace, awareness, ability to turn, ability to monitor flight of ball, ability to mark and I have seen many last ditch blocks, tackles and goal keepers flying out at ER this year. Remember the goal we lost against Motherwell? The late equaliser in the 3-3 game. Good defending? Sadly not...

Any goal can be analysed and bad defending found. Over the season we let in fewer goals than six other premier teams. That suggests to me that our defence wasn't that bad, particularly before Hanlon's injury. I agree that retaining possession is important, but that can be worked on by coaches. There's a balance to be found between the very negative midfield ball retention under Fenlon and the hoof upfield under Butcher. I still don't accept that we don't have more significant personnel problems further forward.

Borderhibbie76
28-05-2014, 10:12 PM
Butcher has relegated one of the biggest teams in Scotland along with relegating ICT and finishing 12th with Motherwell. That's an embarrassing record.

He has to be sacked along with Petrie, only then can we properly rebuild

This 100%...he took us down with his tactics, hoofball, petty agendas against players, [email protected] loan signings in Jan and useless substitutions. Not to mention his dreadful man management of Harris and slagging the players off in the press in Jan.

Butcher is a clown and must go along with Petrie, Malpas etc etc.

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madhatter
28-05-2014, 10:32 PM
Any goal can be analysed and bad defending found. Over the season we let in fewer goals than six other premier teams. That suggests to me that our defence wasn't that bad, particularly before Hanlon's injury. I agree that retaining possession is important, but that can be worked on by coaches. There's a balance to be found between the very negative midfield ball retention under Fenlon and the hoof upfield under Butcher. I still don't accept that we don't have more significant personnel problems further forward.

The point I make is we've cleared out (or will clear out) our whole defence and midfield almost, plus the goalkeeper. I'd personally prefer building a solid foundation and have young players up-top with 1 proven goalscorer. The hoof upfield is not as much down to Butcher as I think many are thinking. It wasn't like that when he had his decent run - it was faster/longer passes but not "hoof", it gradually became more "hoof" towards the end. Coaches will likely need to be improved though. Case and point is McGivern's attempt to pass ending up at a Hamilton player's foot and in the net 5 seconds later. They, sadly, didn't seem capable of passing or had incredibly poor decision making. Most goals conceded this year also come from losing comfortable possession whilst committing men forward for a harmless attack or losing possession deep in our own half. McPake, whilst I liked him as a player and as a guy, was notorious for being caught out of position and resorted to desperate lunges. This is brave defending; good defending would have prevented the need though. Nelson is notorious for taking a fort-night to turn. McGivern is notorious for being rash and knackered in the 2nd half of games. Fewer goals lost doesn't tell the full story, how many times have teams hit the woodwork against us or have had terrible finishing at the crucial moment? Or Williams saved us?

I've also never seen such a flat-footed, ball-watching Hibs team in my life.

The only reason we don't always lose many goals is because as, was evident against Hamilton, and during many other games this season - at some point in the 2nd half we revert to almost playing a back 10. So deep it is ridiculous. This either works (earn draws or wins) or doesn't (lose).

Our problem doesn't come from up-top. How many times did you see that Hibs team counter-attack? Very rarely. I've watched a player break forward to almost the half-way line (slowly), get closed down and rather than taking the man on (which creates space as, if successful, can draw another defender) each time they turned back or passed sideways to a player who then passed it back. Goals generally come from players taking a gamble, whether it is taking a man on or peeling off a defender. Under Fenlon and now under Butcher, the team was setup to prevent losing goals. Worked better for Fenlon as he didn't say the players were garbage.

A counter-attack is meant for midfielders and forwards to try to score a goal, not as a means to get to the half-way line, get back into something that resembles a 4-5-1 and to hoof balls anywhere (Butcher), or as a means to pass it side-ways (Fenlon). Negative tactics only work with good midfielders and defenders who all know how to defend, this accompanied with a forward with great workrate.

Hence, I think we get a defence who can defend and pass, get a midfield that are confident, pacy, strong, can pass and create, and rely less on negative tactics. Levein vs Strachan. Granted though, goalscorer would be a welcome accomplice.

TowerHibs
28-05-2014, 11:15 PM
The point I make is we've cleared out (or will clear out) our whole defence and midfield almost, plus the goalkeeper. I'd personally prefer building a solid foundation and have young players up-top with 1 proven goalscorer. The hoof upfield is not as much down to Butcher as I think many are thinking. It wasn't like that when he had his decent run - it was faster/longer passes but not "hoof", it gradually became more "hoof" towards the end. Coaches will likely need to be improved though. Case and point is McGivern's attempt to pass ending up at a Hamilton player's foot and in the net 5 seconds later. They, sadly, didn't seem capable of passing or had incredibly poor decision making. Most goals conceded this year also come from losing comfortable possession whilst committing men forward for a harmless attack or losing possession deep in our own half. McPake, whilst I liked him as a player and as a guy, was notorious for being caught out of position and resorted to desperate lunges. This is brave defending; good defending would have prevented the need though. Nelson is notorious for taking a fort-night to turn. McGivern is notorious for being rash and knackered in the 2nd half of games. Fewer goals lost doesn't tell the full story, how many times have teams hit the woodwork against us or have had terrible finishing at the crucial moment? Or Williams saved us?

I've also never seen such a flat-footed, ball-watching Hibs team in my life.

The only reason we don't always lose many goals is because as, was evident against Hamilton, and during many other games this season - at some point in the 2nd half we revert to almost playing a back 10. So deep it is ridiculous. This either works (earn draws or wins) or doesn't (lose).

Our problem doesn't come from up-top. How many times did you see that Hibs team counter-attack? Very rarely. I've watched a player break forward to almost the half-way line (slowly), get closed down and rather than taking the man on (which creates space as, if successful, can draw another defender) each time they turned back or passed sideways to a player who then passed it back. Goals generally come from players taking a gamble, whether it is taking a man on or peeling off a defender. Under Fenlon and now under Butcher, the team was setup to prevent losing goals. Worked better for Fenlon as he didn't say the players were garbage.

A counter-attack is meant for midfielders and forwards to try to score a goal, not as a means to get to the half-way line, get back into something that resembles a 4-5-1 and to hoof balls anywhere (Butcher), or as a means to pass it side-ways (Fenlon). Negative tactics only work with good midfielders and defenders who all know how to defend, this accompanied with a forward with great workrate.

Hence, I think we get a defence who can defend and pass, get a midfield that are confident, pacy, strong, can pass and create, and rely less on negative tactics. Levein vs Strachan. Granted though, goalscorer would be a welcome accomplice.
Good post. Also comes from attitude and creating a tempo. We were much improved against Thistle at ER and should have scored 2/3 in the first half. Fast throw ins, fast set plays got everyone focused and determined. As soon as that stopped, out passing became longer and sloppier

RIP Bestie
29-05-2014, 03:53 AM
This for me too now ..... I was OK with it when it looked like we would stay up, but things are different .... he has a massive job on his hands and I don't care if he has access to every modern communication device on the planet in Brazil. His place is in Edinburgh showing the same commitment he is going to have to demand from his new team.

I wouldn't grudge him a week in Benidorm though.

As for building a new team capable of getting us out of the Championship he either needs the owners to step up with a decent budget or to spend the 4 weeks he was going to spend in Brazil taking a crash course at Hogwarts. I am very, very sad to say the latter is more likely.
You never know, he might unearth the next Mark Caughy

ballengeich
29-05-2014, 07:21 AM
Our problem doesn't come from up-top. How many times did you see that Hibs team counter-attack?

I see what you're getting at and agree about the problems you've pointed out about the build up, but I think you're optimistic about what we have up-top. Heffernan is a good premier player, but often injured. Collins didn't make the step up adequately - perhaps he'll come good. Cummings has a future, but has yet to score in the premier, while Handling and Caldwell don't look like they're going to make the grade.

Your point about some of the early games under Butcher was good. I welcomed his switch to moving the ball forward quicker, and there were games in which the approach worked. The win over Kilmarnock just before Christmas was the first in some time which I left having enjoyed the attacking performance and feeling optimistic. What went wrong afterwards is beyond my capacity to understand, as there were several displays around that time which showed that we had at least an adequate premier division squad.

AlbertK86
29-05-2014, 07:42 AM
RE rebuilding: We have to hope Butcher/Marsella repeat the trick of unearthing gems - this much they do have a good record at in recent times. Hearts are speaking to Darren MacGregor - he would be available for us to speak to aswell and there was a thread on the subject of whether or not we should go for him. Two much better centre halves are Gary Warren & Josh Meekings - not that they are available, but examples of players unearthed by TB/SM that would have been well within budget and would have jumped at Hibs from where they were. We need to hope if Hearts are signing the MacGregors, we are signing better. Repeat through the team. Not really sure of all the success stories from Inverness - Aaron Doran and Billy MacKay are the obvious ones, plucked from the wilderness.

On sky sports news this morning that Hearts expect to sign Gomis and Bauben next week

Didn't think they were out of admin yet but if this is true then that is a proven engine room that I would have taken at Hibs

As you say he maybe has better lined up but my head says he will struggle to get the targets he potentially had lined up had we stayed up


On another note

Just saw three of the Hertz defenders on the u21 highlights getting torn apart by the Dutch .... Hopefully daunts their confidence !! 😉

Ronniekirk
29-05-2014, 08:55 AM
Whilst there is much talk about ousting Petrie, Butcher or both, the fact remains that the new campaign in the Championship starts in less than 12 weeks or so.

Changing the manager at this stage in my opinion will delay our start, I assume Butcher has targets and the players need time to work together before the season starts. I, like most on here am unhappy with Petrie, however I worry that all this talk of boycotts etc merely distracts us from being ready for the new season. We must get off to a good start.

Both The Rangers and Hearts players know one another, hearts players have been together most of the season and that was reflected in some of their recent results.

Lets just assume (and it's a big assumption) that Butcher signs up all the players we want in the next 4 weeks. Is that really enough time to get them working together and understanding not only each other but how to play together as a unit? (We don't even have a goalkeeper on our books!).

we are all hurting but let's not get distracted. We need to stay focused on starting well and getting this once great club back up where it belongs.:flag:

I think the reality at this point is that we probably don't know and 12 will become eleven etc
That's why at tonight's meeting the right questions need to be asked.
It's clear we have been in Free fall for months so the Board must have started a Contingency Plan for life in the Championship.
Given the current talk of boycotting season ticket sales and sponsors withholding money that means it's harder for club to be specific about Transfer Budget tonight as Season Ticket Sales are a large part of that Budget ..
Deprive however the Manager , whoever they may be of Funds and no quick deals will be getting done to bring new players in will be Petries stance at tonight's meeting
If Hearts are well on way to signing some key experienced players then they are already going to be ahead of us in preparation for new season so we need to know what current position is on signings as if we had targets lined up they must have a view on whether relegation changes that and you would think T B would know who is still willing to come on board
If we are serious about wanting T B and Team out it has to happen in next week to give new incumbent time to be appointed and then be active in Transfer Market so R P needs to make it clear tonight that even with him gone is that Financially possible and what are implications for Transfer Budget If it can't be done without severely denting the Transfer Budget we are stuck with T B I fear .
Lee Ann's role needs to be clearly defined and Petrie pushed if staying will he stay out of appointing managers and Transfer negotiations ,if so what is his role ? To oversee a smooth Transition over the wind of change period for eg If so how long will that take and what other changes are planned and do some of these now need to wait till we get promotion
Those present tonight need to ensure there is constructive dialogue not just a ram my from the floor There needs to be answers to the above questions as for Fans to make decisions to stop putting money into club now could mean we spend longer time in lower division .Is this a price worth paying now to achieve the objective of Petrie going immediately or can there be compromise of a planned exit and handing over the reigns with clear expectation if he doesn't go and things don't change then he will have backed us into a corner
The Future of our Club is at Stake here so those responsible for calling this meeting need to be mindful of the Enormity of trying to achieve all this in a timeframe that doesn't damage us further.
I do think Petries time is up and hope tonight he is left in no doubt that there is a strong feeling amongst the support that this is needed .
One meeting can't possibly resolve all this of course as he is unlikely to Step Down without a fight. he will try and ride out a few demonstrations if he thinks he can .
On the question of Butcher staying the fans seem more divided it's a difficult one to call but he has given me no confidence he knows what he is doing apart fom first few months when he had us better organised and pushing higher up pitch closing opposition down .So the question is can we trust him to bring in the right players with different mentality who he can motivate and coach and I don't honestly know I have seen enough to say he can So it's a risk tasking him to bring us straight back up .

GlenrothesHibee
29-05-2014, 09:21 AM
A small silver lining here. The ICT team Butcher built in the first division ended up going over a year unbeaten away and won promotion. Lets just hope he does ssomething similar with us.

hibbydad
29-05-2014, 09:29 AM
I think the reality at this point is that we probably don't know and 12 will become eleven etc
That's why at tonight's meeting the right questions need to be asked.
It's clear we have been in Free fall for months so the Board must have started a Contingency Plan for life in the Championship.
Given the current talk of boycotting season ticket sales and sponsors withholding money that means it's harder for club to be specific about Transfer Budget tonight as Season Ticket Sales are a large part of that Budget ..
Deprive however the Manager , whoever they may be of Funds and no quick deals will be getting done to bring new players in will be Petries stance at tonight's meeting
If Hearts are well on way to signing some key experienced players then they are already going to be ahead of us in preparation for new season so we need to know what current position is on signings as if we had targets lined up they must have a view on whether relegation changes that and you would think T B would know who is still willing to come on board
If we are serious about wanting T B and Team out it has to happen in next week to give new incumbent time to be appointed and then be active in Transfer Market so R P needs to make it clear tonight that even with him gone is that Financially possible and what are implications for Transfer Budget If it can't be done without severely denting the Transfer Budget we are stuck with T B I fear .
Lee Ann's role needs to be clearly defined and Petrie pushed if staying will he stay out of appointing managers and Transfer negotiations ,if so what is his role ? To oversee a smooth Transition over the wind of change period for eg If so how long will that take and what other changes are planned and do some of these now need to wait till we get promotion
Those present tonight need to ensure there is constructive dialogue not just a ram my from the floor There needs to be answers to the above questions as for Fans to make decisions to stop putting money into club now could mean we spend longer time in lower division .Is this a price worth paying now to achieve the objective of Petrie going immediately or can there be compromise of a planned exit and handing over the reigns with clear expectation if he doesn't go and things don't change then he will have backed us into a corner
The Future of our Club is at Stake here so those responsible for calling this meeting need to be mindful of the Enormity of trying to achieve all this in a timeframe that doesn't damage us further.
I do think Petries time is up and hope tonight he is left in no doubt that there is a strong feeling amongst the support that this is needed .
One meeting can't possibly resolve all this of course as he is unlikely to Step Down without a fight. he will try and ride out a few demonstrations if he thinks he can .
On the question of Butcher staying the fans seem more divided it's a difficult one to call but he has given me no confidence he knows what he is doing apart fom first few months when he had us better organised and pushing higher up pitch closing opposition down .So the question is can we trust him to bring in the right players with different mentality who he can motivate and coach and I don't honestly know I have seen enough to say he can So it's a risk tasking him to bring us straight back up .

You are right what you say what is required is a proper recovery plan as would be the case in any business. An immediate requirement in my view would be to increase the share capital in order to raise working capital to invest in the team. The board should be calling an immediate shareholders meeting which would need to be approached constructively. aiF WE ARE TO GET OUT OF THE HOLE WE ARE IN WE MUST ALL WORK TOGETHER IN HARMONY. I do not in saying this exonerate the board or their management team but we must all pull together immediately if we are to have any chance of acheiving promotion in the coming season.

le bill
29-05-2014, 09:38 AM
Easy to build a team because players should have been lined up, even with relegation in mind - Rangers and Hearts will be able to attract players down to the Championship so no reason why we can't. It'd take only 1-3 weeks to sign most players. Especially as most clubs seem to negotiate quickly and get 2-5 in at a time. 6-8 players in with Collins, Heffernan, Tudur Jones, Robertson, Stevenson, Nelson, McGivern going, then I'm sure we can put a decent side together with our u-20s, these new players, Stanton, Harris (pre-season under his belt), Cummings and Booth.

We need to avoid questionable signings, we need to avoid proven journeyman. What we need is hungry hungry players. Players who want to succeed. Pacy, Strong and an ability to pass. Don't care where they come from.

Looking at the under-20s: Dunsmore, Baptie, Black, Gardiner, Todd, Beaton, Paul, Mulhall, Hendry, Doyle amongst others could do a job for our top team in the Championship and will be a decent learning curve. I'd much prefer to see our own than players who couldn't give a toss. I'm sure even in goals, Perntreau or Horne will be a decent substitute goallie. Give them turns even sitting on the bench (being involved match days).

I'd focus on Defence and Midfield as it's not goalscoring that's been our problem. It's making chances and stopping opposition scoring (inviting pressure on us over and over again). Midfield that can keep possession and Defence that can pass to Midfield and defend. Problem solved.





mmmmmmm
I think it has

JustSimplyHibs
29-05-2014, 10:11 AM
mmmmmmm
I think it has



That's why we need to make a statement of intent - get Boyd (whom i have a feeling we have already secured or, at least negotiating with, my old man sometimes drives his agent about, there was interest in Feb/March - never said much last night about Hibs as it was Nevin doing the talking but the body lanuage would suggest something is in the pipeline), out of contract and a proven goalscorer who would rip the championship apart, every other goal scorer is contracted to clubs and would cost a bit of money.

We need a GOAL SCORER, simple really!

nribs
29-05-2014, 10:26 AM
That's why we need to make a statement of intent - get Boyd (whom i have a feeling we have already secured or, at least negotiating with, my old man sometimes drives his agent about, there was interest in Feb/March - never said much last night about Hibs as it was Nevin doing the talking but the body lanuage would suggest something is in the pipeline), out of contract and a proven goalscorer who would rip the championship apart, every other goal scorer is contracted to clubs and would cost a bit of money.

We need a GOAL SCORER, simple really!
I didn't see any body language that would suggest he is coming to Easter Road but I don't profess to be an expert in such matters if I was I'd have saved myself a few slaps to the face :) I thought he was struggling not to laugh at the talk about Hibs?

Diclonius
29-05-2014, 10:30 AM
It looks like we will be in for another lengthy transitional period.

The board love that phrase. For then it means "We're going to be pretty **** this season, and we'll have a pretty small budget. But tough ****. Give us your ****ing money."

There's no time for transition in the Championship. We need results NOW.

madhatter
29-05-2014, 12:01 PM
That's why we need to make a statement of intent - get Boyd (whom i have a feeling we have already secured or, at least negotiating with, my old man sometimes drives his agent about, there was interest in Feb/March - never said much last night about Hibs as it was Nevin doing the talking but the body lanuage would suggest something is in the pipeline), out of contract and a proven goalscorer who would rip the championship apart, every other goal scorer is contracted to clubs and would cost a bit of money.

We need a GOAL SCORER, simple really!

Unless we're talking about someone of Griffiths standard, I reiterate without a more than capable midfield who can pass, they will not score many goals. Objective 1 has to be playing in the oppositions half and in the final third - being capable of doing so. Heffernan was a proven goalscorer but like all others, scraps will strangle a strikers goalscoring tally no-end.

This emphasis on goalscorer is bewildering when we just cleared out a team that couldn't pass, couldn't keep possession and were so slow at attacking that chances were kept to an absolute minimum. Van Persie didn't score as many for Man Utd this season as he should have, why? He was injured for a bit but it has the same answer as why Suarez and Sturridge scored more? Bad team; good team. Why do Chelsea have a top goalscorer that plays in midfield? Good team. Not just about 1 goalscorer that plays up-top.

I'd personally hate Boyd being at Hibs. Lazy journeyman is the last thing we need. The absolute last thing.

AlbertK86
29-05-2014, 12:56 PM
Boyd was on a photograph that was tweeted this morning

Sitting at an airport waiting to board a 10:05 flight to Aberdeen according to the Info board in the photo

Ronniekirk
29-05-2014, 06:53 PM
You are right what you say what is required is a proper recovery plan as would be the case in any business. An immediate requirement in my view would be to increase the share capital in order to raise working capital to invest in the team. The board should be calling an immediate shareholders meeting which would need to be approached constructively. aiF WE ARE TO GET OUT OF THE HOLE WE ARE IN WE MUST ALL WORK TOGETHER IN HARMONY. I do not in saying this exonerate the board or their management team but we must all pull together immediately if we are to have any chance of acheiving promotion in the coming season.

harmony Peace Love and Understanding are in short supply just now but let's see what tomorrow's announcement delivers .I do sense there is a realisation at Board a Level there needs to be change but don't think it's going to be at a pace that some want .

The Leith Dutch
29-05-2014, 08:43 PM
If Butcher carries through with going to the World Cup to commentate, instead of staying here to build for the new season, he can do one as far as I'm concerned.

He either accepts the size of the task he has created for himself or we get a new Manager in that can appreciate how important the job is.

This is a very relevant point.

I work as a technical manager.

The approximate equivalent for me of what's happened at Hibs is that my director is incompetent and my technical team couldn't find their own ***** with both hands and a map and will need to be replaced. Also three quarters of the hardware is literally on fire.

Add to this that I need to be ready and prepared for a massive project starting in 10 (yes it's only 10) weeks where the consequences of failure may very well be the end of the company I work for as a viable business.

I then turn round to my boss and announce that I plan to take a four week sabbatical to a conference in Brazil where I intended to deliver some well paid keynote speeches organised by another company.

Chances of me still being in a job with my current employers anyone?

greenpaper55
29-05-2014, 08:56 PM
Twelve weeks, we always seem to get players in the last few days so why would it be any different this year.

The_Horde
29-05-2014, 08:59 PM
Twelve weeks, we always seem to get players in the last few days so why would it be any different this year.

I dunno maybe because we just lost 14 including 3 keepers?

Gatecrasher
29-05-2014, 09:11 PM
Build a team? We're still waiting to see who wins the "I have the biggest cock" contest between the board and the supporters club. Hopefully Marsella and butcher already have a good few players targeted.

The Leith Dutch
29-05-2014, 09:12 PM
Twelve weeks, we always seem to get players in the last few days so why would it be any different this year.

Last season the Championship started on the 10th August.
That's 73 days away or, likely, 10 weeks on Saturday in old money.....

Still. We just need to get a new owner, change the board, replace the current manager and coaching team and sign somewhere between half and three quarters of a new team.

Nae rush eh?

:greengrin

MacGruber
29-05-2014, 09:35 PM
;4039205']I dunno maybe because we just lost 14 including 3 keepers?

Agreed

The 14 is a bit of a false figure though given 5 never kicked a ball for us (including Boetang) with another 2, Watmore & Hayes, that were loans that never got much game time. We've lost 7 for me in real money.

Still though, I get your point.