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Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 10:41 AM
I'm convinced that now is the time for the fans to take control of the club. It's clear that there is no direction in the way the club is currently being run and there is no sugar daddy on the horizon.
The problem is, how do we do it? We would need a fairly strong team of qualified fans (lawyers, accountants etc)willing to give up their time on a voluntary basis to start looking at the options.
We need to mobilise the support as much as possible with the help of former players, celeb fans etc.
Most importantly I think we need to start now.
It time we were a club again and not just a business.
Am I alone in thinking along these lines?

leggeto
27-05-2014, 10:44 AM
Rod out ozy in

greenlex
27-05-2014, 10:47 AM
I'm convinced that now is the time for the fans to take control of the club. It's clear that there is no direction in the way the club is currently being run and there is no sugar daddy on the horizon.
The problem is, how do we do it? We would need a fairly strong team of qualified fans (lawyers, accountants etc)willing to give up their time on a voluntary basis to start looking at the options.
We need to mobilise the support as much as possible with the help of former players, celeb fans etc.
Most importantly I think we need to start now.
It time we were a club again and not just a business.
Am I alone in thinking along these lines?
I've said elsewhere that the appointment of Leanne Dempster is a prelude to this happening. I reckon STF is behind it.

hibeeleicester
27-05-2014, 10:49 AM
Who pays off the debt?

Who will give us interest free loans like STF?

lobster
27-05-2014, 10:50 AM
Hope this is the case. Would be a bold move not out of character for the club historically.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 10:52 AM
Rod out ozy in

Couldn't be any worse than Petrie. :-)
Slowly getting over the shock of Sunday and realising that this can go one of two ways for me as a fan. Complete disengagement and concentrate on the kids footy or get more involved and try and bring about real change.
Unfortunately I'm not qualified to set up such a scheme so I'm just hoping that we can encourage other fans to step up.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 10:54 AM
Who pays off the debt?

Who will give us interest free loans like STF?

The club will be responsible for the debt as it is just now. We will still have to be a well run club, no matter who owns it.
The club is not loss making, so will not be a burden on the new fan owners.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 10:56 AM
I've said elsewhere that the appointment of Leanne Dempster is a prelude to this happening. I reckon STF is behind it.

Why wait? Maybe no such thing is happening? Maybe it's time we instigated something rather than wait on STF?

Keith_M
27-05-2014, 10:59 AM
Why wait? Maybe no such thing is happening? Maybe it's time we instigated something rather than wait on STF?

I think it's a good idea to wait and see what Dempster says first.

If/when she's been in the door for a week or so and said nothing, then revisit this idea.

Blaster
27-05-2014, 10:59 AM
Why wait? Maybe no such thing is happening? Maybe it's time we instigated something rather than wait on STF?

It is happening.

southfieldhibby
27-05-2014, 11:02 AM
Who pays off the debt?

Who will give us interest free loans like STF?

The debt is effectively a mortgage, so like all of us who pay off that responsibly, so would Hibs.


I'm against fan ownership,though, a recipe for disaster.Fan representation I'm all for.

itslegaltender
27-05-2014, 11:02 AM
I've said elsewhere that the appointment of Leanne Dempster is a prelude to this happening. I reckon STF is behind it.

Is it not the case though that she has failed to generate the amount of cash required for a fans buyout at Motherwell? They released a statement on this last week.

bobbyhibs1983
27-05-2014, 11:02 AM
prehaps something alone the likes of what man united done and put us on the stock exchange?

i doubt many people would want hibs share therefor it ll be mostly us fans. is the club put the price at say £5 a share and sold a million shares that ll raise £5million for the club i guess

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 11:04 AM
It is happening.

I really hope so. We can't go on much longer like this. Without the club articulating a clear plan for the future I fear that we will become like Dundee.
If they don't announce in the next week then I think we need to act ourselves.

leggeto
27-05-2014, 11:06 AM
Couldn't be any worse than Petrie. :-)
Slowly getting over the shock of Sunday and realising that this can go one of two ways for me as a fan. Complete disengagement and concentrate on the kids footy or get more involved and try and bring about real change.
Unfortunately I'm not qualified to set up such a scheme so I'm just hoping that we can encourage other fans to step up.

It Does seem the way forward tbh

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 11:06 AM
The debt is effectively a mortgage, so like all of us who pay off that responsibly, so would Hibs.


I'm against fan ownership,though, a recipe for disaster.Fan representation I'm all for.

Seems to work well on the continent.

Blaster
27-05-2014, 11:11 AM
I really hope so. We can't go on much longer like this. Without the club articulating a clear plan for the future I fear that we will become like Dundee.
If they don't announce in the next week then I think we need to act ourselves.

I believe the first step of process already started a few weeks ago. I am not sure how long that change takes but as soon as that is completed there will be an announcement.

Keith_M
27-05-2014, 11:13 AM
Seems to work well on the continent.

Ozzy, I'm not being deliberately negative about the idea but... I've heard this before and I'm really not sure this is the case.


What examples do you have of successfully run, fan owned clubs?

:dunno:

I can think of Barcelona, but nobody else. That hardly makes a good example for us, as they have a club membership of 120,000.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 11:16 AM
Do you know what's happening or just rumours? If it is happening then great but I think the club need to let us know their plans soon.

southfieldhibby
27-05-2014, 11:20 AM
Ozzy, I'm not being deliberately negative about the idea but... I've heard this before and I'm really not sure this is the case.


What examples do you have of successfully run, fan owned clubs?

:dunno:

I can think of Barcelona, but nobody else. That hardly makes a good example for us, as they have a club membership of 120,000.

Every club in Germany is majority owned by the fans...in partnership with big business.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 11:20 AM
Ozzy, I'm not being deliberately negative about the idea but... I've heard this before and I'm really not sure this is the case.


What examples do you have of successfully run, fan owned clubs?

:dunno:

I can think of Barcelona, but nobody else. That hardly makes a good example for us, as they have a club membership of 120,000.

I think all clubs in Germany have to be at least 51% owned by fans.
I just feel that it is right for us.
We have very poor ownership just now and no sign of anyone willing to take over.
Even if you think there are better ownership models out there, they do not appear to be available to us.

Blaster
27-05-2014, 11:29 AM
Do you know what's happening or just rumours? If it is happening then great but I think the club need to let us know their plans soon.

Everything is a rumour until its confirmed is it not.

I've heard the ownership changing from STF to his son due to his health. Then some sort of fan ownership plan to happen. The first bit has been passed to companies house i believe but not sure how long that process takes.

May be nonsense of course!

WhileTheChief..
27-05-2014, 11:34 AM
Farmer puts no money in and the club is self sufficient therefore we don't need a sugar daddy type.

1000 fans put up a grand each and offer Farmer the million.

I'll get the ball rolling with the first grand :)

Peevemor
27-05-2014, 11:36 AM
Farmer puts no money in and the club is self sufficient therefore we don't need a sugar daddy type.

1000 fans put up a grand each and offer Farmer the million.

I'll get the ball rolling with the first grand :)

STF has regularly bailed out the club with short term loans to help cash flow - something that the Banks are reluctant to do (with football clubs in general).

greenlex
27-05-2014, 11:37 AM
Is it not the case though that she has failed to generate the amount of cash required for a fans buyout at Motherwell? They released a statement on this last week.Kinda. I think the model was sound enough but the fans just are not there.The numbers were overestimated. Whether it was done at the wrong time during a recession when money is tight I don't know. I think its a case the fans failed rather than what was being implemented. Hibs as a club are in a much better position to do this. City club with relatively small and manageable debt with a bigger fan base. Relegation will be stick in the spokes though. Maybe if we are competitive next season and challenging it might actually be better for this kind of change with a bit of momentum and a feel good factor.. I dunno Im just thinking out loud.

madhatter
27-05-2014, 11:39 AM
STF has regularly bailed out the club with short term loans to help cash flow - something that the Banks are reluctant to do (with football clubs in general).

An owner giving his business loans...

Sounds a bit bizarre. Also, help cash flow? What cash flow - not on team or wages clearly so where?

Also, why do Hibs require these loans even though we have a bigger following, low debt and low wage/salary demands? It doesn't add up for me.

Peevemor
27-05-2014, 11:41 AM
An owner giving his business loans...

Sounds a bit bizarre. Also, help cash flow? What cash flow - not on team or wages clearly so where?

Also, why do Hibs require these loans even though we have a bigger following, low debt and low wage/salary demands? It doesn't add up for me.

Whatever, but it's definitely the case.

southsider
27-05-2014, 11:44 AM
[QUOTE=hibeeleicester;4033420]Who pays off the debt?

Who will give us interest free loans like STF?Would we really need interes free loans. We just keep paying back the "morgages" as our assets far outway our liabilities. If we are deadly serious abouf fan owership then we can do it. I know lots of people who will not go near the place whilst Farmer/Petrie remain.

greenlex
27-05-2014, 11:45 AM
An owner giving his business loans...

Sounds a bit bizarre. Also, help cash flow? What cash flow - not on team or wages clearly so where?

Also, why do Hibs require these loans even though we have a bigger following, low debt and low wage/salary demands? It doesn't add up for me. Loans are required when things run over budget. Out of cups too early and paying of managers/players etc are a couple that spring to mind.

Weir7
27-05-2014, 11:46 AM
STF has regularly bailed out the club with short term loans to help cash flow - something that the Banks are reluctant to do (with football clubs in general).

Which he charged interest on. Cash flow problems are due to petrie's mismanagement

madhatter
27-05-2014, 11:47 AM
Whatever, but it's definitely the case.

It may very well be the case, I don't think many are disputing that but cash flow seems to suggest money is flowing into the club and disappearing. That sadly is also definitely the case :boo hoo:

Money has regularly been pumped into club from fans - 11k+ average attendance this season plus merchandise and 49% wage to turnover ratio suggests something is not right. Wages should account for most of the money and anything above and beyond that should be miniscule in comparison.

offshorehibby
27-05-2014, 11:49 AM
I'm against fan ownership,though, a recipe for disaster.Fan representation I'm all for.

I'm against complete fan ownership as well, god we can't even agree on here. I would like to see more fan involvement at board room level.

VivaHiberña
27-05-2014, 11:51 AM
Ozzy, I'm not being deliberately negative about the idea but... I've heard this before and I'm really not sure this is the case.


What examples do you have of successfully run, fan owned clubs?

:dunno:

I can think of Barcelona, but nobody else. That hardly makes a good example for us, as they have a club membership of 120,000.

I'm pretty sure FC United of Manchester are fan-owned and are probably far more comparable to us. Could we learn from their experiences?

Edit: Apparently they're still playing non-league football with considerably less supporters than us. Even then maybe we can apply some of what they've done to a larger model. Just something to consider.


I'm against complete fan ownership as well, god we can't even agree on here. I would like to see more fan involvement at board room level.

:agree: I think this is about right.

madhatter
27-05-2014, 11:54 AM
Loans are required when things run over budget. Out of cups too early and paying of managers/players etc are a couple that spring to mind.

That has happened due to mismanagement - aka Petrie (employee of Farmer - owner).

Failing customers then looking like a hero by giving a loan to the club when you have failed is nothing short of hypocritical...

Petrie is Farmer's employee and so if we need to sack managers constantly then surely Sherlock isn't needed to realise the problem - owner and board are deluded.

Farmer saves us years and years ago. Now he and his henchman is killing the club. They both need rid of.

Farmer tells us "Couldn't have a better leader than Petrie - wish I had 200 Petrie's" and then gives loans for cash flow on a regular basis due to failure? Nothing stinks about that?

southfieldhibby
27-05-2014, 11:59 AM
I'm against complete fan ownership as well, god we can't even agree on here. I would like to see more fan involvement at board room level.

There is an argument that there is already fan representation on the board.

greenlex
27-05-2014, 12:01 PM
That has happened due to mismanagement - aka Petrie (employee of Farmer - owner).

Failing customers then looking like a hero by giving a loan to the club when you have failed is nothing short of hypocritical...

Petrie is Farmer's employee and so if we need to sack managers constantly then surely Sherlock isn't needed to realise the problem - owner and board are deluded.

Farmer saves us years and years ago. Now he and his henchman is killing the club. They both need rid of.

Farmer tells us "Couldn't have a better leader than Petrie - wish I had 200 Petrie's" and then gives loans for cash flow on a regular basis due to failure? Nothing stinks about that? You like a rant eh? The question was why do we need loans. I gave a couple of reasons. Fan ownership or the removal of Farmer and Petrie will not see the need for loans go away.

greenlex
27-05-2014, 12:04 PM
It may very well be the case, I don't think many are disputing that but cash flow seems to suggest money is flowing into the club and disappearing. That sadly is also definitely the case :boo hoo:

Money has regularly been pumped into club from fans - 11k+ average attendance this season plus merchandise and 49% wage to turnover ratio suggests something is not right. Wages should account for most of the money and anything above and beyond that should be miniscule in comparison.Not being funny but have you ever run a business or a football club?

madhatter
27-05-2014, 12:07 PM
Not being funny but have you ever run a business or a football club?

Not being funny but that is none of your business.

offshorehibby
27-05-2014, 12:10 PM
There is an argument that there is already fan representation on the board.

Thinking along the lines of more grass route fans HSA, .net, The Bounce, ERIN trust.

madhatter
27-05-2014, 12:11 PM
You like a rant eh? The question was why do we need loans. I gave a couple of reasons. Fan ownership or the removal of Farmer and Petrie will not see the need for loans go away.

No, I actually like supporting a football club - know of any one in local area that is doing alright?

You explained why we need loans. I explained how fishy the failure leading to loan cycle and the deja vu type feeling with regard to this - oh we've got the wrong manager, we'll need a loan from STF to get new one and new squad. Oh, we're relegated, we need to clear out - get loan from STF and challenge for promotion.

All this failure and our owner supports the overseer. Fishy. Not a rant by any means. Stating my opinion as you have.

Caversham Green
27-05-2014, 12:11 PM
It may very well be the case, I don't think many are disputing that but cash flow seems to suggest money is flowing into the club and disappearing. That sadly is also definitely the case :boo hoo:

Money has regularly been pumped into club from fans - 11k+ average attendance this season plus merchandise and 49% wage to turnover ratio suggests something is not right. Wages should account for most of the money and anything above and beyond that should be miniscule in comparison.

Stadium upkeep, Security, Rates, Insurance, Travel etc are anything but miniscule - they came to £3.3m last year. Meanwhile the 49% wages/turnover ratio only applied to that year, the previous year was 60%.

Cash flow problems apply to pretty much all businesses - that's why they have bank overdrafts (or loans from their owners which is extremely common for privately-owned companies). The loans from the owner take the place of a bank overdraft, and where interest is charged (some are interest-free) it is much cheaper than an overdraft or bank loan.

Out of interest, where do you think the money is disappearing to?

madhatter
27-05-2014, 12:15 PM
Stadium upkeep, Security, Rates, Insurance, Travel etc are anything but miniscule - they came to £3.3m last year. Meanwhile the 49% wages/turnover ratio only applied to that year, the previous year was 60%.

Cash flow problems apply to pretty much all businesses - that's why they have bank overdrafts (or loans from their owners which is extremely common for privately-owned companies). The loans from the owner take the place of a bank overdraft, and where interest is charged (some are interest-free) it is much cheaper than an overdraft or bank loan.

Out of interest, where do you think the money is disappearing to?

No idea where the money is going. We can debate the finances but if a business is in constant need for increased cash flow for the wrong reasons why would its owner back the chairman?

greenlex
27-05-2014, 12:15 PM
Not being funny but that is none of your business.Ill take that as a no then.

madhatter
27-05-2014, 12:18 PM
Where's your evidence for that?

Asking fans for evidence of wrongdoing by owner and chairman at this time is pretty ludicrous to be honest. I have no evidence for the club leaking cash but we lose out on players due to wages offered, we have a big following when compared to our competitors and this thread shows we are in constant need of improved cash flow. It doesn't add up.

Failure from the top has led to this but those at top back each other still.

greenlex
27-05-2014, 12:19 PM
No idea where the money is going. We can debate the finances but if a business is in constant need for increased cash flow for the wrong reasons why would its owner back the chairman?Its not constant. It is only when needed. The need to pay it back then does however impact on something. It affects the budget.The fixed costs are the fixed costs. You work away at trying to reduce them but eventually they cant be reduced any more. They are what they are.The only thing left is the wage part of the budget.

Caversham Green
27-05-2014, 12:22 PM
No idea where the money is going. We can debate the finances but if a business is in constant need for increased cash flow for the wrong reasons why would its owner back the chairman?

As I said, cash flow problems are common to all businesses and in Hibs case the problems are solved without the need for expensive bank overdrafts. The fact that our loan debt is steadily decreasing tells us that the cash flow problems are a matter of timing rather than overspending or money 'disappearing' out of the business. Our club has plenty of problems, but you're inventing ones that don't exist.

CropleyWasGod
27-05-2014, 12:25 PM
Asking fans for evidence of wrongdoing by owner and chairman at this time is pretty ludicrous to be honest. I have no evidence for the club leaking cash but we lose out on players due to wages offered, we have a big following when compared to our competitors and this thread shows we are in constant need of improved cash flow. It doesn't add up.

Failure from the top has led to this but those at top back each other still.

It was you who raised the issue, and suggested that money was "disappearing". It's not ludicrous to ask how you arrived at that.

Keith_M
27-05-2014, 12:26 PM
Every club in Germany is majority owned by the fans...in partnership with big business.


So we need a big business partner.


How about Kwik Fit?

:duck:

Spudster
27-05-2014, 12:35 PM
assets far outway our liabilities. If we are deadly serious abouf fan owership then we can do it.
Those two sentences contradict each other. If the assets the fans want ownership of "far outway our liabilities" it will be an expensive club to buy. For example, Hearts with all their debt still cost £2.5M.

JeMeSouviens
27-05-2014, 12:57 PM
Those two sentences contradict each other. If the assets the fans want ownership of "far outway our liabilities" it will be an expensive club to buy. For example, Hearts with all their debt still cost £2.5M.

That's not really true. Hearts with almost all the debt written off cost £2.5M. For that you get c£0.5M of football debt, a worthless football business and a prime piece of real estate worth at least double that.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 01:16 PM
Is there enough people interested in taking it forward?
If there was then it would be possible to set up a meeting of interested fans and maybe invite a rep from supporters direct to come and speak to us? There is no harm in trying?

graciehfc
27-05-2014, 01:21 PM
Would this be a plan where fans pay monthly contributions into the same account to be used soley on running the club and not big bonuses for rods replacement!!!!

NAE NOOKIE
27-05-2014, 01:22 PM
100% fan ownership is not an option IMO ... we just don't have the fanbase to make us competitive financially. But something along the lines of the German model could work where we own say 50% of the club.

The German clubs seem to have little trouble getting wealthy companies and individuals to come on board for 49% of the action.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 01:39 PM
100% fan ownership is not an option IMO ... we just don't have the fanbase to make us competitive financially. But something along the lines of the German model could work where we own say 50% of the club.

The German clubs seem to have little trouble getting wealthy companies and individuals to come on board for 49% of the action.

Lack of a fan base to make us competitive in Scotland?
Who do you see coming to take on the other 50% and spend their money on us?

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 01:40 PM
Would this be a plan where fans pay monthly contributions into the same account to be used soley on running the club and not big bonuses for rods replacement!!!!

There isn't really a plan. I'm just trying to see if there is interest among the Hibs support for a change in direction?

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 01:46 PM
As I said, cash flow problems are common to all businesses and in Hibs case the problems are solved without the need for expensive bank overdrafts. The fact that our loan debt is steadily decreasing tells us that the cash flow problems are a matter of timing rather than overspending or money 'disappearing' out of the business. Our club has plenty of problems, but you're inventing ones that don't exist.

The financial side of the club is strong. Even Petrie's harshest critics would concede that. The should be no need for ongoing external funding for the club. Lack of money is not the problem at Hibs, it's a lack of direction.

CropleyWasGod
27-05-2014, 01:57 PM
So we need a big business partner.


How about Kwik Fit?

:duck:

We've exhausted that connection.

timewilltell
27-05-2014, 02:08 PM
Fan ownership ? Can you provide good examples of where this is working?

Ludicrous idea.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 02:16 PM
Fan ownership ? Can you provide good examples of where this is working?

Ludicrous idea.

Athletic Bilbao

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 02:27 PM
Fan ownership ? Can you provide good examples of where this is working?

Ludicrous idea.

http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/case-studies/swansea-city

southsider
27-05-2014, 02:39 PM
Fan ownership ? Can you provide good examples of where this is working?

Ludicrous idea.
Not So. Works in Germany where crowds are massive and prices for football are much lower than our crappy league.

Caversham Green
27-05-2014, 03:19 PM
The financial side of the club is strong. Even Petrie's harshest critics would concede that. The should be no need for ongoing external funding for the club. Lack of money is not the problem at Hibs, it's a lack of direction.

I agree (although Petrie's harshest critics don't seem to be conceding it), but there is likely to be a need for overdraft-type funding around the middle of each season. I doubt if a moderate bank overdraft would be much of a problem to obtain as the club is clearly and demonstrably self-sufficient in general terms. The way the club is organised means that a change of ownership would not of itself cause any financial difficulty, a board of directors could be appointed to run the club under instruction from the new owner(s) in much the same way as the current setup works.

Maybe something like the FoH model is the way forward - a syndicate of supporters runs the holding company with a board of directors running the actual club. However, the average yam that's bought into FoH is probably paying about twice as much for his football as the average Hibby STH and the complaints about the way the club is run would continue - it's by no means the complete solution. Ironically we would also find it rather more difficult to raise funds purely because the club has been responsibly run (in financial terms) and the future of the club is not in jeopardy.

Hibby Bairn
27-05-2014, 03:30 PM
The simplest thing to do would be for a group of supporter representatives to invite Paul Goodwin from Supporters Direct in for a chat. This would help you/us understand more clearly what was involved, what success looks like and the steps to getting there.

Then a more informed debate can take place.

I was closely involved with another SPL club community takeover attempt (fell through) and it isn't actually that complicated. But it does need level headed people (as opposed to "bams" :greengrin) to be part of the fan representation group.

MoscowHibs
27-05-2014, 03:33 PM
Lack of a fan base to make us competitive in Scotland?
Who do you see coming to take on the other 50% and spend their money on us?

Maybe someone with Brian Kennedy's contact details should sound him out, with the view to getting on board or trying to get the club outright.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 04:06 PM
Maybe someone with Brian Kennedy's contact details should sound him out, with the view to getting on board or trying to get the club outright.

Now I'm really convinced we need fan ownership

CyberSauzee
27-05-2014, 04:06 PM
The simplest thing to do would be for a group of supporter representatives to invite Paul Goodwin from Supporters Direct in for a chat. This would help you/us understand more clearly what was involved, what success looks like and the steps to getting there.

Then a more informed debate can take place.

I was closely involved with another SPL club community takeover attempt (fell through) and it isn't actually that complicated. But it does need level headed people (as opposed to "bams" :greengrin) to be part of the fan representation group.

If anyone is serious then TH's advice is the best way forward, talk to SD.

You are basically buying a football club, how it is structured once you buy it is up to you. What most fan owned clubs do is have the football club owned by a traditional limited company, with this limited company wholly owned by a co-operative society where each paid up member is an equal shareholder (and therefore owner) of the football club. I believe this is what the Yams will do, but 5 years is a long time in football...

Regarding debt and cash flow, debt can be taken on by fan owned clubs, just like any other business (or football club); you just have to be very careful about how much as you are answerable to the supporters. You can be aggressive and set your season's budget based on reaching the quarter finals of both domestic cups and a run in Europe, or you can be ultra cautious and simply just treat your home games as your working capital for the season, and treat any cup runs as an added bonus for next year's budget. Again, that's up to the supporters (or their representatives on the board) to decide.

A final word on Germany and the Bundesliga. This works because nowadays one stipulation of Bundesliga membership is that all clubs must be wholly owned by the fans (with two historic 'works' team exceptions), and they must all provide a a set of accounts for the season ahead and stick to that budget. No overspending by anyone.

Edit. Just realised that should read majority owned by fans.

(((Fergus)))
27-05-2014, 04:11 PM
A final word on Germany and the Bundesliga. This works because nowadays one stipulation of Bundesliga membership is that all clubs must be wholly owned by the fans (with two historic 'works' team exceptions), and they must all provide a a set of accounts for the season ahead and stick to that budget. No overspending by anyone.

Sounds like something the SPFL should be interested in, not least in light of recent calamities - Gretna, Dundee, Motherwell, Them, The Them...

NAE NOOKIE
27-05-2014, 04:57 PM
Lack of a fan base to make us competitive in Scotland?
Who do you see coming to take on the other 50% and spend their money on us?

10,OOO Home crowds on average. At 10,000 X £10 month that would be £1,200,000 per annum. But lets face it, you would be lucky to get anything like 10k fans to commit to that unless it was a Yam type situation. Even in Scotland where you don't need tens of millions to compete the best you could expect from fan ownership would be enough to run East Mains ....... Not make the club competitive with Aberdeen or Dundee Utd for example.

Who would want the other 50% ? How would I know mate, why does anybody want to put money into a football club. Why do Americans want to own Liverpool? Why do Malaysians want to own Welsh Championship clubs? Why did a likeable, but misguided, multi millionaire pump millions into a village team who had no prospect of growth?

One thing I do know ......... Nothing gets sold if its not advertised.

Ozyhibby
27-05-2014, 05:21 PM
10,OOO Home crowds on average. At 10,000 X £10 month that would be £1,200,000 per annum. But lets face it, you would be lucky to get anything like 10k fans to commit to that unless it was a Yam type situation. Even in Scotland where you don't need tens of millions to compete the best you could expect from fan ownership would be enough to run East Mains ....... Not make the club competitive with Aberdeen or Dundee Utd for example.

Who would want the other 50% ? How would I know mate, why does anybody want to put money into a football club. Why do Americans want to own Liverpool? Why do Malaysians want to own Welsh Championship clubs? Why did a likeable, but misguided, multi millionaire pump millions into a village team who had no prospect of growth?

One thing I do know ......... Nothing gets sold if its not advertised.

The club already generates enough money to compete with Aberdeen or Dundee utd. It's not lack of money that is preventing us.
Any direct debit scheme would only be needed to purchase the club. Until we know the price then we have no idea what is required. STF may say we can have the whole lot for a £1 or he may say £10m.
We don't need a direct debit for ongoing expenditure.

Devilstorment
27-05-2014, 05:58 PM
Hibs have been running at a loss the last few years i thought?

greenlex
27-05-2014, 05:59 PM
Hibs have been running at a loss the last few years i thought?
Not true. Accounts in the vault.

Devilstorment
27-05-2014, 06:10 PM
Just checked. Last 3 years have had 2 years loss, one years profit. Profit year was till end July 2013.


http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20130909/club-publishes-financial-statement_2262950_3452889

shezer
27-05-2014, 06:26 PM
Fan ownership ? Can you provide good examples of where this is working?

Ludicrous idea.


Right here in Cork City.

http://heartofgame.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/heartofthegamehandbook_ireland.pdf

The Falcon
27-05-2014, 06:32 PM
Why wait? Maybe no such thing is happening? Maybe it's time we instigated something rather than wait on STF?

We are already owned, ultimately, by a trust, the Sir Tom Farmer 1998 Settlement.

The Falcon
27-05-2014, 06:35 PM
Maybe someone with Brian Kennedy's contact details should sound him out, with the view to getting on board or trying to get the club outright.

Somebody at Stockport County will still have them.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/mar/29/stockport-county-paying-price-chaos

147lothian
27-05-2014, 06:42 PM
We need to take our club back! Its gulling for me that we have heard nothing of what happens to the club post Farmer! An owner who has no interest in football and an arrogant accountant brings malaise and a club alien to the fans, fans ownership is the way forward, it involves the fans is transparent and open to new initiatives everything the club has not been under farmer and petrie