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View Full Version : Pet Fenlon had us challenging in the top 6!



SlickShoes
26-05-2014, 01:46 PM
NAW HE DIDN'T!

On October the 5th a full month before he left we were 7th on 11 points from 8 games.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-10-05

When he left at the start of November we were still 7th, we had 15 points now, St Mirren were bottom on 8 points but had two games in hand. They would go on to win one of those, Killie went 2nd bottom 6 points behind us and it stayed like that for some time.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-11-04

By this point we were in freefall, had been horsed in two Scottish Cup finals, trounced 9-0 by Malmo and beaten 1-0 TWICE by a turly awful Hearts team that could not buy a win from anyone else. He could not motivated a team of players that he himself brought to the club. It was the right thing for him to leave if you can't see this then just open your eyes and take off your rose coloured glasses.

We rose up to a heady 6th place when we won some games over christmas, somehow butcher got the players to actually play like a team for a month. After that was over normal service resumed and Pat's players shambled on through the season.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2014-01-04

Butcher is culpable but Pat Fenlon shoulders a large part of the blame for assembling this squad and thinking that they were good enough. I am sick of reading how he left us in this great position and if he had stayed we would be fine.

Hibernia&Alba
26-05-2014, 01:50 PM
Pat's time was up, and that seemed the consensus amongst the support at the time. However, Terence somehow contrived to make us even worse; much worse. A relegation battle wasn't on the radar when he took over. He didn't win a league game in the final three months of the season. He must go immediately.

SlickShoes
26-05-2014, 01:53 PM
Pat's time was up, and that seemed the consensus amongst the support at the time. However, Terence somehow contrived to make us even worse; much worse. A relegation battle wasn't on the radar when he took over. He didn't win a league game in the final three months of the season. He must go immediately.

I'm not defending butcher at all, he made a complete arse of it as did the players but some folk on here are intent on peddling this myth that Pat had us well safe when in reality we were two defeats away from the playoff for large parts of the season.

Stevie Reid
26-05-2014, 01:56 PM
NAW HE DIDN'T!

On October the 5th a full month before he left we were 7th on 11 points from 8 games.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-10-05

When he left at the start of November we were still 7th, we had 15 points now, St Mirren were bottom on 8 points but had two games in hand. They would go on to win one of those, Killie went 2nd bottom 6 points behind us and it stayed like that for some time.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-11-04

By this point we were in freefall, had been horsed in two Scottish Cup finals, trounced 9-0 by Malmo and beaten 1-0 TWICE by a turly awful Hearts team that could not buy a win from anyone else. He could not motivated a team of players that he himself brought to the club. It was the right thing for him to leave if you can't see this then just open your eyes and take off your rose coloured glasses.

We rose up to a heady 6th place when we won some games over christmas, somehow butcher got the players to actually play like a team for a month. After that was over normal service resumed and Pat's players shambled on through the season.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2014-01-04

Butcher is culpable but Pat Fenlon shoulders a large part of the blame for assembling this squad and thinking that they were good enough. I am sick of reading how he left us in this great position and if he had stayed we would be fine.

We were 6th when he left, the table can be seen here: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24591036



1
Celtic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic)
9
12
23


2
Aberdeen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aberdeen)
11
6
20


3
Inverness CT (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/inverness-caledonian-thistle)
10
6
19


4
Motherwell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/motherwell)
10
1
19


5
Dundee Utd (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dundee-united)
11
8
16


6
Hibernian (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian)
11
-2
15


7
Partick Thistle (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/partick-thistle)
10
-1
13


8
St Johnstone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/st-johnstone)
10
2
12


9
Ross County (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/ross-county)
10
-8
10


10
Kilmarnock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/kilmarnock)
11
-4
9


11
St Mirren (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/st-mirren)
10
-11
8


12
Hearts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/heart-of-midlothian)
11
-9
-7



His points per game average had us on track for 52 points - one better than last year, still 7th place. We weren't in freefall when he left, but he'd suffered one bad result too many, the football was uninspiring, and he had to go.

However, Butcher has been a monumental failure, and to blame Fenlon for our relegation when he left us in the top half of the table in October, is rather ridiculous. He didn't leave us in a great place, but it was a damn site better than where Butcher has taken us. Lots of people wanted Fenlon to go - I don't recall any of them saying that it was because we might get relegated. And that's because there was no way we would be relegated under Fenlon.

Hibercelona
26-05-2014, 01:57 PM
Fenlon was crap. Butcher has turned out to be worse.

I don't know how there can be any misunderstanding.

SlickShoes
26-05-2014, 02:01 PM
We were 6th when he left, the table can be seen here: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24591036



1
Celtic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic)
9
12
23


2
Aberdeen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aberdeen)
11
6
20


3
Inverness CT (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/inverness-caledonian-thistle)
10
6
19


4
Motherwell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/motherwell)
10
1
19


5
Dundee Utd (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/dundee-united)
11
8
16


6
Hibernian (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian)
11
-2
15


7
Partick Thistle (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/partick-thistle)
10
-1
13


8
St Johnstone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/st-johnstone)
10
2
12


9
Ross County (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/ross-county)
10
-8
10


10
Kilmarnock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/kilmarnock)
11
-4
9


11
St Mirren (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/st-mirren)
10
-11
8


12
Hearts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/heart-of-midlothian)
11
-9
-7



His points per game average had us on track for 52 points - one better than last year, still 7th place. We weren't in freefall when he left, but he'd suffered one bad result too many, the football was uninspiring, and he had to go.

However, Butcher has been a monumental failure, and to blame Fenlon for our relegation when he left us in the top half of the table in October, is rather ridiculous. He didn't leave us in a great place, but it was a damn site better than where Butcher has taken us. Lots of people wanted Fenlon to go - I don't recall any of them saying that it was because we might get relegated. And that's because there was no way we would be relegated under Fenlon.

The table when he left on November the 1st was with us in 7th place. You could have stopped butchers reign in january and estimated his points total and you would have been completely wrong. The only way we were heading under Pat was down, not better than last year, much much worse.

greenlex
26-05-2014, 02:07 PM
He's gone. FFS

h185forever
26-05-2014, 02:11 PM
He's gone. FFS


agreed lets look forward...looking wont help us at all now ........its what happens next that matters

Stevie Reid
26-05-2014, 02:15 PM
The table when he left on November the 1st was with us in 7th place. You could have stopped butchers reign in january and estimated his points total and you would have been completely wrong. The only way we were heading under Pat was down, not better than last year, much much worse.

Your league table is from 4 November, by which time Jimmy Nicholl had managed us in defeat to Motherwell - Fenlon left us in 6th. Anyway, the point being that we were top 6 contenders when he left - we couldn't even hack in the bottom 6 after Butcher had worked his magic.

And whilst you're right that at the end of January a points projection for Butcher would have been off, by the end of January - coincidentally - he had managed us for 11 league games. His 13 point haul was still less than Fenlon's.

We were treading water under Pat (after last year's improved league finish) and doing it whilst having to watch mind numbingly dull football - that was the problem, not that people were worried that we were going down. Under Butcher, the results and style of play have been much, much worse - seems a strange stick to beat Fenlon with.

eastterrace
26-05-2014, 02:16 PM
yes fenlon had us safe by about 7 points , so who is to say a few defeats and we would have been were we are now. also the football was eye bleeding stuff so lets look forward and not back.

SlickShoes
26-05-2014, 02:30 PM
Your league table is from 4 November, by which time Jimmy Nicholl had managed us in defeat to Motherwell - Fenlon left us in 6th. Anyway, the point being that we were top 6 contenders when he left - we couldn't even hack in the bottom 6 after Butcher had worked his magic.

And whilst you're right that at the end of January a points projection for Butcher would have been off, by the end of January - coincidentally - he had managed us for 11 league games. His 13 point haul was still less than Fenlon's.

We were treading water under Pat (after last year's improved league finish) and doing it whilst having to watch mind numbingly dull football - that was the problem, not that people were worried that we were going down. Under Butcher, the results and style of play have been much, much worse - seems a strange stick to beat Fenlon with.

October 27th we were in 7th. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2013-10-27

The point we agree on anyway was that Pat had to go, it's just been much much worse since he left.

Shaggy
26-05-2014, 04:16 PM
Fenlon football - bland uneventful ...but mid table.
Butcher hoofball - horendous to watch .... got us relegated.

Hibs fans forced Fenlon out,
Hibs fans done a song and dance at our new arrival.

Yeah we got that right!
This was always coming,

.. just as John Collins knew it would back 2007.