29 matches

[Stevie Reid]

That's how long Butcher has been with us, and what a disastrous period it's been: -

P 29 W 6 D 8 L 15

It made me curious as to what impact our other recent managers had had in such a period of time, so I had a look. To be honest, it shows little more than how bad we have been for a long, long time - as well as strongly suggesting that retaining Butcher would be a very bad idea.

(Please note that I am using the 29 games purely as a period time as it's how many Butcher has had until now. As such, there is some overlap, as Calderwood and Hughes were only here for 49 and 54 games, respectively)

Fenlon

Last 29 - W 10 D 8 L 11

First 29 - W 9 D 5 L 15

Calderwood

Last 29 - W 7 D 8 L 14

First 29 - W 8 D 6 L 15

Hughes

Last 29 - W 6 D 6 L 17

First 29 - W 14 D 7 L 8

[BarneyK]

That's how long Butcher has been with us, and what a disastrous period it's been: -

P 29 W 6 D 8 L 6

It made me curious as to what impact our other recent managers had had in such a period of time, so I had a look. To be honest, it shows little more than how bad we have been for a long, long time - as well as strongly suggesting that retaining Butcher would be a very bad idea.

(Please note that I am using the 29 games purely as a period time as it's how many Butcher has had until now. As such, there is some overlap, as Calderwood and Hughes were only here for 49 and 54 games, respectively)

Fenlon

Last 29 - W 10 D 8 L 11

First 29 - W 9 D 5 L 15

Calderwood

Last 29 - W 7 D 8 L 14

First 29 - W 8 D 6 L 15

Hughes

Last 29 - W 6 D 6 L 17

First 29 - W 15 D 7 L 8

Stevie, my maths may be rank but you do seem to have mislaid 9 results in there

[Stevie Reid]

Stevie, my maths may be rank but you do seem to have mislaid 9 results in there

Duly edited!

[Hibercelona]

Worse than Colin Calderwood. How is that even possible?

[Stevie Reid]

Worse than Colin Calderwood. How is that even possible?

Indeed. Yet both get a statement in support of them, when getting rid would be the only sensible thing to do.

[Hibercelona]

Indeed. Yet both get a statement in support of them, when getting rid would be the only sensible thing to do.

Aye. But apparently we can't afford to sack Butcher, which would suggest that we won't be able to afford better players either.

[Stevie Reid]

Aye. But apparently we can't afford to sack Butcher, which would suggest that we won't be able to afford better players either.

I didn't think I could feel worse today, but I do. The statement last night, followed by Thomson and McPake being the first to be shown the door, will just alienate more people.

[Hibercelona]

I didn't think I could feel worse today, but I do. The statement last night, followed by Thomson and McPake being the first to be shown the door, will just alienate more people.

It's certainly alienated me mate. They were the only 2 players at the club with any real level of leadership skills.

I dread to think who Butcher will replace them with in a league that could arguably prove to be even more difficult.

[Tyler Durden]

That's how long Butcher has been with us, and what a disastrous period it's been: -

P 29 W 6 D 8 L 15

It made me curious as to what impact our other recent managers had had in such a period of time, so I had a look. To be honest, it shows little more than how bad we have been for a long, long time - as well as strongly suggesting that retaining Butcher would be a very bad idea.

(Please note that I am using the 29 games purely as a period time as it's how many Butcher has had until now. As such, there is some overlap, as Calderwood and Hughes were only here for 49 and 54 games, respectively)

Fenlon

Last 29 - W 10 D 8 L 11

First 29 - W 9 D 5 L 15

Calderwood

Last 29 - W 7 D 8 L 14

First 29 - W 8 D 6 L 15

Hughes

Last 29 - W 6 D 6 L 17

First 29 - W 14 D 7 L 8

I want Butcher out but interested as to why you think these stats point toward retaining him being a bad idea? Other than the obvious.

Does this not just show that we keep changing managers and they've all been pretty awful?

[Keith_M]

So the only worse comparable period was actually Yogi's last 29 as manager?

It's quite funny, cos I could tell you somebody on here that has been VERY vocal in wanting Fenlon, Calderwood and now Butcher to leave but criticised most of us for wanting Yogi out.

I'm obviously too much of a gentleman to say who it was :wink:

[Stevie Reid]

It's certainly alienated me mate. They were the only 2 players at the club with any real level of leadership skills.

I dread to think who Butcher will replace them with in a league that could arguably prove to be even more difficult.

I'm astonished at how quickly things have happened. I honestly thought that last night's statement was just a holding one and that Butcher would be gone shortly - but with all the departures today, I'm now beginning to fear that he actually is getting to stay, and we're somehow going to entrust our worst ever manager to rebuild us in possibly our darkest hour.

Worrying times. At this point in time, every other club in the Championship is more galvanised than we are, even taking into account all the nonsense at Rangers.

[Stevie Reid]

I want Butcher out but interested as to why you think these stats point toward retaining him being a bad idea? Other than the obvious.

Does this not just show that we keep changing managers and they've all been pretty awful?

Other than the obvious, it's because they're comparable to Calderwood's, and it was blindingly obvious at the end of Calderwood's first season that he was just never going to cut it for us - and he managed to keep us up. Also comparable in terms of both Butcher and Calderwood took over teams that (technically, in terms of league position) the previous manager had improved, yet both have contrived to make us much, much worse.

Believe me, I'd rather we didn't have to sack another manager, but to see us relegated from the position he was in when he took over is a quite stunning display of ineptitude. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for certain managers at certain clubs - we as a club, and Butcher as a manager, both have histories that show that only too clearly - and it's only too obvious that it's highly unlikely to happen for Butcher here. If the bad feeling and low morale continues into next season, I shudder to think how far we might fall, and how many years in the wilderness we may spend.

Make no mistake, every other Championship team will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of playing us next season, and not just from a financial point of view. We need someone to come in and get us up for what lies ahead - after us making a mess of Hearts' relegation season, if they get back up before us, then the balance we have to redress with them will probably be insurmountable. And that doesn't bear thinking about. I thought two years ago was rock bottom, yet here we are.

[Stevie Reid]

I said this in another thread yesterday, but allowing Butcher to rebuild us is tantamount to not sacking Duffy in '98, then entrusting him to get us back up again - it would have been insanity then, just as this is now. We had McLeish come in and restore some pride and unite the club before we went down back then, and went into the First Division campaign with renewed optimism - even then we got a hell of a fright before we got it together.

I know Butcher got ICT up, but it was a less competitive league, and they had an inauspicious start, only winning it after going on an incredible run - they were 15 points behind Dundee in January. He won't have the luxury of that time next season.

[Spudster]

We had McLeish come in and restore some pride and unite the club before we went down back then, and went into the First Division campaign with renewed optimism

Worth remembering he spent an absolute bucket load of cash on players that crippled us for years after (granted someone allowed him to spend it).

[Greenblood70]

He has to go, he's burned his bridges with the support. Quite simply the worst football I've ever seen at ER with second rate cod psychology sound bites thrown in for good measure. Get him out.


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[Saorsa]

Indeed. Yet both get a statement in support of them, when getting rid would be the only sensible thing to do.Then Petrie would have tae be wrong yet again.

He'll let him spend the player budget in the summer, sack him a few months in tae the season, the the next manager will have tae work with is players until he can make some useless loan signings in January........

[Hibiza]

Butcher , more than capable of another straight relegation. :taxi

[emerald green]

Aye. But apparently we can't afford to sack Butcher, which would suggest that we won't be able to afford better players either.

We can't afford not to sack Butcher, but judging by today he is here to stay. For how long, only time will tell. I despair.

When I say "we" I mean those running our club into oblivion.