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View Full Version : Butcher is staying based on what ?



Sammy7nil
26-05-2014, 10:13 AM
Nothing BUTCHER has done since arriving at Hibs justifies the decision to give him more time.
The fact he remains will split the support and cAnnot be in the interests of the club, so why has Petrie made this decision what is his reasoning?

Does he like HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFBALL?

FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB TB SHOULD RESIGN.

Pretty Boy
26-05-2014, 10:22 AM
Butcher talks a great game. He certainly blinded a lot of the support, including myself, to his many shortcomings with his chat.

Maybe the gift of the gab is still working on Rod.

MWHIBBIES
26-05-2014, 10:25 AM
We can't afford to sack him.

Hibernia&Alba
26-05-2014, 10:29 AM
We can't afford to sack him.

This can be the only possible explanation for his continuing. Nobody, and I mean nobody, could have performed worse since his arrival. Everything has been horrific: selection, tactics, playing style, results. There is no positive reason that I can see to keep him.

Makaveli
26-05-2014, 10:30 AM
Based on him having no shame. Fenlon went after the protests etc and said it wasn't fair on anyone to stay. Butcher's idiocy is costing honest people their jobs yet he's still here.

Baader
26-05-2014, 10:32 AM
Butcher talks a great game. He certainly blinded a lot of the support, including myself, to his many shortcomings with his chat.

Maybe the gift of the gab is still working on Rod.

Remember Duffy doing the same when he came in - was all about what we were going to do. Butchers tenure has reminded me of this.

He knows he isn't up to it and is responsible for this nightmare. He needs to walk

NORTHERNHIBBY
26-05-2014, 10:39 AM
Perhaps Rod told him he would keep his job whatever because even he didn't think we would go down.

SanFranHibs
26-05-2014, 10:42 AM
Still hope he can show some managerial and player finding skill this summer.

But the fact is that when he took over 'Fenlons duds' as someone called them on the Sky Sports thread, those duds were in 7th with still some hope of catching St. Johnstone for 6th and certainly a long way clear of the relegation battle.

If he keeps Nelson and a couple of others then I will seriously doubt his judgement and Hibs chance of being anywhere near the promotion race next season.

However, can we seriously sack another manager so soon? I don't think we will and if he does not walk he will be our manager next season so we had better hope they come up with a few gems for next season or we are down there for a long time.

What a depressing time.

Saorsa
26-05-2014, 10:46 AM
Based on Butcher having nae shame and Petrie being a ****

The Leith Dutch
26-05-2014, 11:04 AM
Still hope he can show some managerial and player finding skill this summer.

But the fact is that when he took over 'Fenlons duds' as someone called them on the Sky Sports thread, those duds were in 7th with still some hope of catching St. Johnstone for 6th and certainly a long way clear of the relegation battle.

If he keeps Nelson and a couple of others then I will seriously doubt his judgement and Hibs chance of being anywhere near the promotion race next season.

However, can we seriously sack another manager so soon? I don't think we will and if he does not walk he will be our manager next season so we had better hope they come up with a few gems for next season or we are down there for a long time.

What a depressing time.

My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

Ronniekirk
26-05-2014, 11:08 AM
Based on purely the fact we can't afford to pay the team off them off.Petrie will say he brought ICT straight back up so he has experience to do that job with his own players being brought in Time will tell if that's right or not .
He also liked T B because he hardly spent money on Transfers at ICT so that will also be a major factor.

emerald green
26-05-2014, 11:10 AM
We can't afford to sack him.

We can't afford not to.

Stevie Reid
26-05-2014, 11:15 AM
Petrie. Yesterday's statement was as misguided as the Calderwood one, and we know how that turned out. Too much of the support is lost for Butcher not to go, whatever the cost - if we allow him to rebuild and he loses the first two games of next season, he will be out; we then face another manager coming in dealing with a group of players he hasn't assembled.

Whatever the cost, get shot of the three of them. The fact that they haven't the decency to walk (Petrie included) tells you everything about the type of character they are.

Pretty Boy
26-05-2014, 11:17 AM
We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

Hibercelona
26-05-2014, 11:19 AM
He needs time to build his own team.

So that he can then turn those players against him as well, continue to play terrible formations and tactics and continue to make baffling substitutions at baffling times.

JimBHibees
26-05-2014, 11:23 AM
We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

Agree especially about the bottom games, a couple of draws would probably have kept us up but we blew it massively. His record is atrocious and you can only use the players excuse so many times, he picked the team and constantly had 4 or 5 changes every game rather than stick with a settled group.

St Mirren should have been about not losing at all costs, we lost a goal in 12 seconds, absolutely laughable.

The style of football yesterday was worse than pub league against an average team who could pass the ball but had that rock Martin Canning at the back, dear oh dear. Heffernan ran away from their other centre back yet we sit back and let them play. Only Hibs could lose a 2 goal lead at home in front of a massive support.

I think he should go now and get a progressive coach to get us playing an attractive style of football.

Stax
26-05-2014, 11:26 AM
I genuinely saw a couple of positives when he first came in. Looking back most of it was to do with a minimal initial 'bounce' when he came in. That was more to with positive media p.r Than any actual improvements. I don't think anyone could honestly see how bad things were going to get and how quickly that deterioration would be. I've not seen any glimmer from butcher of what he's trying to achieve since he's been here. The fact he is now in charge of whatever budget we have genuinely worries me. I fear the football we've witnessed this season will appear silky compared to what he'll attempt next season. I know we can't go on continually sacking managers but I've seen nothing in butcher to convince me to put any faith in him. I honestly don't know what the answer is, unfortunately the management of our club don't seem to either.

Makaveli
26-05-2014, 11:28 AM
My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

It's understandably being lost in the shuffle but that's probably the most sensible posts I've seen today.

(1) It really is hard to see why he persists in the long balls when all they do is surrender possession. Talk about playing to your weaknesses.

(2) The OTJ for Heffernan switch reminded me of Williamson taking Mixu off with ten minutes to go against Hearts only for it to free up McKenna who then scored.

(3) I fully agree about Harris and Cairney.

Hiber-nation
26-05-2014, 11:34 AM
Petrie. Yesterday's statement was as misguided as the Calderwood one, and we know how that turned out. Too much of the support is lost for Butcher not to go, whatever the cost - if we allow him to rebuild and he loses the first two games of next season, he will be out; we then face another manager coming in dealing with a group of players he hasn't assembled.

Whatever the cost, get shot of the three of them. The fact that they haven't the decency to walk (Petrie included) tells you everything about the type of character they are.

Spot on. How anyone could trust Butcher to build a squad to get promoted and attract fans to ER is beyond me. The man has failed spectacularly.

emerald green
26-05-2014, 11:42 AM
We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

:agree: I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs supporter can or would argue for Butcher & Malpas staying, especially after yesterday. In addition to the stats quoted above, his football style and philosophy is pre-historic.

Hamilton Accies - average attendance circa 2,000 - passed Hibs off the park yesterday. Butcher talks a good game. He's a bull****ter though and it appears he is staying.

euro Hibby
26-05-2014, 11:53 AM
I think the club will keep the management team so they are lucky guys. They hopefully have players lined up and a management change at this time would mean starting again so we are stuck with what we have got !

In most other leagues they would have been fired after a 3 month run will so little football

Lang Toun Hibs
26-05-2014, 11:55 AM
With the current clear out underway, there is a real danger for me if he stays. Not only has his football been awful, but if he gets the opportunity to fill the team with his 'style' of player then we're in big trouble if/when the wheels come off again. His position is untenable in my view and allowing him anywhere near the recruitment of a new team is a major cause for concern.

nickwhibs
26-05-2014, 11:59 AM
My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.


My thoughts exactly. I don't trust him to be able to build and manage a new, successful team - he has to go!

Golden Bear
26-05-2014, 11:59 AM
:agree: I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs supporter can or would argue for Butcher & Malpas staying, especially after yesterday. In addition to the stats quoted above, his football style and philosophy is pre-historic.

Hamilton Accies - average attendance circa 2,000 - passed Hibs off the park yesterday. Butcher talks a good game. He's a bull****ter though and it appears he is staying.

:agree:

I was very much in the Butcher camp when he first arrived but how wrong could I be.

Events this morning suggest that TB will still be here next season (if he wants to be that is) and it is a bit alarming that Pat Stanton has come out and publicly backed the guy.

h185forever
26-05-2014, 12:02 PM
the only thing that could embarrass the club more is a resurrected story of ....Hibs dump yet another manager....the BBC would just love that

Keith_M
26-05-2014, 12:18 PM
The people questioning the decision to keep Butcher obviously know very little about how management works in the real world. Management decisions are mostly taken with the interests of the decision maker at heart, not the company, shareholders or customer.

Petrie knows he's failed spectacularly in the last few years, both in appointing managers and backing them to get their pick of players. He pushed the boat out with the Butcher management team, even willing to pay compensation (against his own instincts) because he knew how much he'd failed and had to do something to protect his position.

We have now had an even more disastrous season as a result, leading to the view from a lot of the fans that the current management team should go. This is the part where they don't get how management works. Petrie put himself on the line with this appointment so he really can't be seen to be admitting yet another (this time expensive) failure. Admitting failure may be the right thing to do, good for all concerned outside of Petrie himself, but that is not how things work in the real world.

I've seen this kind of self-preservation, never admit a mistake type of management at loads of companies in a number of different countries, so it really doesn't surprise me one bit that the archetypal 'manager' has made the archetypal 'business decision'.

Killiehibbie
26-05-2014, 12:28 PM
The people questioning the decision to keep Butcher obviously know very little about how management works in the real world. Management decisions are mostly taken with the interests of the decision maker at heart, not the company, shareholders or customer.

Petrie knows he's failed spectacularly in the last few years, both in appointing managers and backing them to get their pick of players. He pushed the boat out with the Butcher management team, even willing to pay compensation (against his own instincts) because he knew how much he'd failed and had to do something to protect his position.

We have now had an even more disastrous season as a result, leading to the view from a lot of the fans that the current management team should go. This is the part where they don't get how management works. Petrie put himself on the line with this appointment so he really can't be seen to be admitting yet another (this time expensive) failure. Admitting failure may be the right thing to do, good for all concerned outside of Petrie himself, but that is not how things work in the real world.

I've seen this kind of self-preservation, never admit a mistake type of management at loads of companies in a number of different countries, so it really doesn't surprise me one bit that the archetypal 'manager' has made the archetypal 'business decision'.Simple solution. Petrie can go with him.

Brizo
26-05-2014, 12:34 PM
Butchers strengths were meant to be that he was an inspirational leader, motivator and man manager. He has failed to bring any of these qualities to the team.

Yesterday he spent most of the time like a statue on the touchline. When the Accies boss was on the touchline he was constantly on the edge of the technical area geeing his players up. When the penalties were being taken his players were all in one unit arms round shoulders; ours weren't. Its a small point but indicative of a unity we totally lacked.

Hamilton played the type of passing game we should be playing. Our sunday amateur hoofball "tactics" were as painful to watch as they've been in previous months. The argument to wait and let him bring his own players in isn't going to change his "philosophy" and fatal tactics such as bringing on OTJ to protect a 0 1 defeat.

I believed the hype about Butcher. Having now seen the reality, he should either bolt or be sacked. Unfortunately economics mean we are probably stuck with him.

gillythehibby
26-05-2014, 12:36 PM
My problem with Butcher is that he has failed in the basic task of management: taking the resources at your disposal and achieving the goals you are set.

I'm not for a second suggesting we have a squad I'm happy with but that said it is clearly not a squad that should have earned the lowest points total in the division.

Here's 3 reasons I think he doesn't have what it takes:

(1)
He has either failed to address or actively encouraged Nelson and McGivern to lump the ball upfield and straight down the middle.
We win at the very best 1 in 20 balls.

This shows a complete failure to understand both the principle of possession football and the concept of percentage football.
It gifts the opposition the ball back, boosts their confidence and encourages them to attack us.

(2)
He doesn't seem to grasp the idea that part of the job of a striker is to give the opposition something to think about and stop them pushing forward at will.
To substitute Heffernan with Tudor-Jones was a defining moment in his time at Hibs and contributed massively to us losing the game - we had nothing in attack.

(3)
Anyone who watched Harris last season recognised there's a player in there.
Anyone who has watched him this season recognises a player utterly bereft of confidence.
To substitute him (and yes he was utterly ineffective) may well have ruined him as a player - at least for Hibs.
Cairney would have been a more sensible option imho.

Good Post. With the subbing of Heff, to remove an attacker was criminal. All that did was bring them even more on top of us. Collins should have been put on before OTD. Collins certainly no great shakes on the evidence of last few Months but he would have given us a link between midfield and attack and would have held the ball up. He would also have worked the channels. Butcher gambled on us defending a loss. Like we've been able to do that at any time this season as well !!! I want Butcher gone. I didn't want him as Hibs' manager anyway as his style stinks. He has proved the job beyond his technical capabilities. he tried everything in HIS locker to no avail. I'll still support them, but I fear this is another ground-hog day scenario.

GBTH

Keith_M
26-05-2014, 12:38 PM
Simple solution. Petrie can go with him.


That's the problem, we don't get to decide who stays or goes. You have to remember, STF would be happy with a hundred Rod Petrie's. He is Mr Teflon.

Management's main purpose is to please those who can hire and fire them. Petrie obviously knows the right buttons to press with STF and continues to do so.

Captain Trips
26-05-2014, 01:07 PM
Based on some of Walter White's finest.

hibee19
26-05-2014, 03:23 PM
I wanted calderwood to go, I got my wish and things got worse.
I wanted fenlon to go, I got my wish and things got worse.

Butcher came in to build his own team so, while I'd hardly be disappointed if he left, I think I'd be alright with him having a full season and window to see what he can do.

mcfly
26-05-2014, 03:30 PM
We needed one win against the other 5 teams in the league almost as bad as us. He failed.

In fact he had 4 months to get is that win that would have kept us up. He failed.

We got a 2nd chance to beat a Championship team over 2 legs. He failed.

We were drawn at home in the Scottish Cup to a mid table Championship team who had failed to score this calendar year. We lost 2-3. He failed.

Hopefully his last act as manager is telling the players they aren't wanted before clearing his own desk.

Agree 100%

Add in continued to play nelson and McGivern every week

Changed his team every week

Never any consistency in selection

Signed a player in january and never played him

Very very poor signings in jan

The list is endless....... Another very very poor hibs
manager.

Sammy7nil
26-05-2014, 03:48 PM
I wanted calderwood to go, I got my wish and things got worse.
I wanted fenlon to go, I got my wish and things got worse.

Butcher came in to build his own team so, while I'd hardly be disappointed if he left, I think I'd be alright with him having a full season and window to see what he can do.

Again though based on what ? There is absolutely nothing to suggest Butcher should be trusted to turn this around. His overall managerial record is patchy at best and the style of football will ensure fans stay away in their droves.

I am not talking about sackinig Butcher if he had an once of honour or integrity he would offer to walk and Petrie should bite his hand off.

For Butcher to cling to his job based on his record whilst letting players go is an embarresment and shows his class.

wills
26-05-2014, 03:51 PM
I'm sorry to say but after our summer break, World Cup in Brazil we'll all be behind the team again no matter who's in charge. It's our club, we are hurting and angry but this board has never taken our feelings into consideration, they will feed of our love for the club and continue in the same vain.
If we want change we will need to bring it about ourselves

#2 Double Tap
26-05-2014, 03:57 PM
I wanted calderwood to go, I got my wish and things got worse.
I wanted fenlon to go, I got my wish and things got worse.

Butcher came in to build his own team so, while I'd hardly be disappointed if he left, I think I'd be alright with him having a full season and window to see what he can do.

Imagine he continues the current trend - watmore - haynes - boateng any one. We can't afford to get this one wrong - we gotta win that league next year.

Sammy7nil
26-05-2014, 04:03 PM
I'm sorry to say but after our summer break, World Cup in Brazil we'll all be behind the team again no matter who's in charge. It's our club, we are hurting and angry but this board has never taken our feelings into consideration, they will feed of our love for the club and continue in the same vain.
If we want change we will need to bring it about ourselves

Totally disagree with that bit if TB is in charge at best the support will be split and many will stay away.

If TB has the good of the club at heart he would walk clinging on to his job after his dire performance in charge shows imho the man has no shame.

The Harp
26-05-2014, 04:47 PM
As time is moving on it's obvious Butcher won't do the honourable thing and walk away. For me, it's not because he thinks he can rebuild a squad capable of gaining promotion anytime soon, it's because he's too pig-headed to admit he's messed up.

Onion
26-05-2014, 04:52 PM
As time is moving on it's obvious Butcher won't do the honourable thing and walk away. For me, it's not because he thinks he can rebuild a squad capable of gaining promotion anytime soon, it's because he's too pig-headed to admit he's messed up.

Simpler than that, this is all about money. Butcher gave up a solid job at ICT for a 6 month stint at Hibs. No way is he going to walk away for nothing. Petrie and Butcher will be dancing the dance until they agree a figure and then they'll issue the mutual consent statement. This is not rocket science !

Sammy7nil
26-05-2014, 05:02 PM
Simpler than that, this is all about money. Butcher gave up a solid job at ICT for a 6 month stint at Hibs. No way is he going to walk away for nothing. Petrie and Butcher will be dancing the dance until they agree a figure and then they'll issue the mutual consent statement. This is not rocket science !

I hope you are right.
Just honour his contract no lump sum payment, just give him a weekly wage until he finds a new job.

Ronniekirk
26-05-2014, 05:04 PM
Good Post. With the subbing of Heff, to remove an attacker was criminal. All that did was bring them even more on top of us. Collins should have been put on before OTD. Collins certainly no great shakes on the evidence of last few Months but he would have given us a link between midfield and attack and would have held the ball up. He would also have worked the channels. Butcher gambled on us defending a loss. Like we've been able to do that at any time this season as well !!! I want Butcher gone. I didn't want him as Hibs' manager anyway as his style stinks. He has proved the job beyond his technical capabilities. he tried everything in HIS locker to no avail. I'll still support them, but I fear this is another ground-hog day scenario.

GBTH

When the rot first started he subbed Heff at Tannadice and we had no one to hold up the ball up front and bring others into play and we got deeper and deeper in our own half and United just got the hoof ball straight to them and it was wave after wave of attack till they scored. He hasn't learnt from this He ffis only 33 ,Scotland is 36 and looks unfit yet he put in a great shift and used experience to great effect .
For me T B s Substitutions yesterday cost us hanging on for the one nil defeat that would of seen us through T B s decision making under pressure has to be called into question .

iwasthere1972
26-05-2014, 05:04 PM
Nothing BUTCHER has done since arriving at Hibs justifies the decision to give him more time.
The fact he remains will split the support and cAnnot be in the interests of the club, so why has Petrie made this decision what is his reasoning?

Does he like HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFBALL?

FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB TB SHOULD RESIGN.

Because in Scotland he wouldn't get a better wage unless he was managing Celtic or The Rangers.

Simples.

The_Todd
26-05-2014, 05:18 PM
Butcher out, Faragè in.

Phil D. Rolls
26-05-2014, 06:21 PM
IMO no manager of Hibs should survive a relegation . I'll excuse McLeish, as he just about got away with it, and had the team playing.

HibeeBigFly
26-05-2014, 06:35 PM
Get rid ASAP!

Worst Hibs manager ever. It amazes me people still want to keep him.

BSEJVT
26-05-2014, 08:46 PM
I think the big difference between this and our last relegation is that at that time everyone was united behind the club and the team.

Those responsible had either jumped or been pushed.

My view is that the support are the most divided they have ever been between those who either hate Petrie and /or Butcher et al, those that aren't fussed and those that want them to stay.

We are going to really struggle in that league even if ( insert who you think is the best manager in the world) is in charge.

When results don't go our way there will be utter carnage amongst the various elements and if I were Leanne Dempster I would be punting Butcher et al and having Rod announce he was stepping down from the board and trying to rally everyone behind the cause.

Sure it will cost money, but there are so many people who are so sickened by Petrie and /or Butcher et al that they wont return till they are gone, that it might be self financing, it will certainly unite the support.

We will be up against the The Rangers, who once they sort out their internal politics will be galvanised by their erroneous sense of injustice and Hearts who will be buoyed by their back from the brink experience, to go into that scenario as divided as we are is utter madness.

Finally IMO Butcher should have done the honourable thing and resigned, immediately followed by Petrie

Alfred E Newman
26-05-2014, 08:56 PM
It looks to me like Butcher is letting the players take total responsibility for this shambles. Nothing to do with bad management ,poor tactics , substitutions etc.

Sammy7nil
26-05-2014, 09:00 PM
I think the big difference between this and our last relegation is that at that time everyone was united behind the club and the team.

Those responsible had either jumped or been pushed.

My view is that the support are the most divided they have ever been between those who either hate Petrie and /or Butcher et al, those that aren't fussed and those that want them to stay.

We are going to really struggle in that league even if ( insert who you think is the best manager in the world) is in charge.

When results don't go our way there will be utter carnage amongst the various elements and if I were Leanne Dempster I would be punting Butcher et al and having Rod announce he was stepping down from the board and trying to rally everyone behind the cause.

Sure it will cost money, but there are so many people who are so sickened by Petrie and /or Butcher et al that they wont return till they are gone, that it might be self financing, it will certainly unite the support.

We will be up against the The Rangers, who once they sort out their internal politics will be galvanised by their erroneous sense of injustice and Hearts who will be buoyed by their back from the brink experience, to go into that scenario as divided as we are is utter madness.

Finally IMO Butcher should have done the honourable thing and resigned, immediately followed by Petrie

:top marks:top marks:top marks

Captain Trips
26-05-2014, 09:21 PM
If Jeremy Beadle was still with us Rod and Terry would be on it tonight.

Watch out Butchers about.