Vine

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

And no it's not the six second video :greengrin

@rowanvine: Good luck to all the Hibs players and nearly all of the staff who deserve a bit of luck today...

My guess that is aimed at TB, MM & SM?

[nribs]

And no it's not the six second video :greengrin

@rowanvine: Good luck to all the Hibs players and nearly all of the staff who deserve a bit of luck today...

My guess that is aimed at TB, MM & SM?
Shocking tweet told him as much.

[3pm]

If you are going to look like a dick, you might as well act like one.

[Russ]

And no it's not the six second video :greengrin

@rowanvine: Good luck to all the Hibs players and nearly all of the staff who deserve a bit of luck today...

My guess that is aimed at TB, MM & SM?

Shows his class.

[Borderhibbie76]

Clancy was at it as well saying Butcher s celebration with fans at full time was embarrassing. Oh and guess what. ..old glass groins is injured and out for 6 to 9 months...no #### sherlock !!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[truehibernian]

Clancy was at it as well saying Butcher s celebration with fans at full time was embarrassing. Oh and guess what. ..old glass groins is injured and out for 6 to 9 months...no #### sherlock !!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Clancy is embarrassing full stop.

[Nevi_SOL]

Who's Clancy ;)

[Jones28]

Who are these players?

[500miles]

If Butcher walked in a told half the dressing room that they weren't good enough and would be shipped out at the end of the season, he deserves all the stick he gets.
It has contributed to a drop in team morale and thereby our shocking record and place in this playoff.

However, he is getting a chance to fix his mess and hopefully build bridges with the people he alienated.

[Scotty-1875]

Vine and Clancy :rotflmao:

[Diclonius]

Clancy and Vine: not good enough for a team that looks to be barely avoiding relegation.

Valued opinion of either player on coaching staff of said team: null.

[Ozyhibby]

Two of the biggest culprits in getting the previous manager sacked are not keen on the new one. Big surprise.
Terry has made many mistakes since he arrived. Getting shot of these two was not one of them.

[500miles]

Two of the biggest culprits in getting the previous manager sacked are not keen on the new one. Big surprise.
Terry has made many mistakes since he arrived. Getting shot of these two was not one of them.

To be fair to Clancy, it's difficult to help getting injured. I think the boy might be finished, but he was always committed on the park.

[--------]

To be fair to Clancy, it's difficult to help getting injured. I think the boy might be finished, but he was always committed on the park.


One of our new CEO's more astute bits of transfer business? :wink:

[Green&White]

If Butcher walked in a told half the dressing room that they weren't good enough and would be shipped out at the end of the season, he deserves all the stick he gets.
It has contributed to a drop in team morale and thereby our shocking record and place in this playoff.

However, he is getting a chance to fix his mess and hopefully build bridges with the people he alienated.


In my view if the players where worth anything they would have done their damnedest to prove him wrong, not chuck the towel in a give up. i dont want players with that attitude or mind set at hibs.

plus they haven't done themselves any favours in the shop window have they?

[R11Loaded]

Clancy seemed better than his predecessors in right back but his injury record is an absolute joke. He was literally being paid to heal. And still is at the Saints


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

In my view if the players where worth anything they would have done their damnedest to prove him wrong, not chuck the towel in a give up. i dont want players with that attitude or mind set at hibs.

plus they haven't done themselves any favours in the shop window have they?


that was my first thought, and still is :agree:

[--------]

In my view if the players were worth anything they would have done their damnedest to prove him wrong, not chuck the towel in and give up. I don't want players with that attitude or mind set at Hibs.

Plus they haven't done themselves any favours in the shop window have they?


Exactly.

But some players are such shrinking violets these days - look at how upset poor wee Yaya got when his bosses forgot his birthday.

Can you imagine Bill Shankly? Matt Busby? Jock Stein? Eddie Turnbull?


Bill Shankly at HT to a goalie who'd let one in through his legs:

Goalie: "Sorry boss, I should have kept my knees together." Shankly: "NO, son. Your mother should have. You're off."

They'd have Amnesty International and the European Court on the case nowadays ....

[SlickShoes]

Vine, the striker that scored 4 goals for Morton to help them secure second division football.

Tim Clancy, constantly injured so find it hard to judge him or how he can hold a grudge against hibs when he never done anything anyway.

Clancy also wears honking shirts ( St J train where I go to the gym. )

[500miles]

Exactly.

But some players are such shrinking violets these days - look at how upset poor wee Yaya got when his bosses forgot his birthday.

Can you imagine Bill Shankly? Matt Busby? Jock Stein? Eddie Turnbull?


Bill Shankly at HT to a goalie who'd let one in through his legs:

Goalie: "Sorry boss, I should have kept my knees together." Shankly: "NO, son. Your mother should have. You're off."

They'd have Amnesty International and the European Court on the case nowadays ....

Football isn't like that anymore. Sir Alex spoke about it a few years ago, how his interaction with players had changed over the years at Man U. I agree, Yaya Toure takes it to a whole new level, but that's no excuse for poor man management or causing division where there should be none.

I don't get your point about the new CEO previously either?

[--------]

Football isn't like that anymore. Sir Alex spoke about it a few years ago, how his interaction with players had changed over the years at Man U. I agree, Yaya Toure takes it to a whole new level, but that's no excuse for poor man management or causing division where there should be none.

I don't get your point about the new CEO previously either?

Depends how it was done. Possibly he was giving a few players the heads-up to get their agents on the job looking for new clubs for them? Lots of rumours circulate. There's probably a grounding of truth in some of them, but a lot depends on the way they're told and passed on. FWIW, Hibs seem to have had a crop of particularly delicate flowers the past few years.

Clancy came to us from Motherwell?

Was LD not at Fir Park by then?

Just a thought. Maybe I'm wrong. Often am.

[Kato]

And no it's not the six second video :greengrin

@rowanvine: Good luck to all the Hibs players and nearly all of the staff who deserve a bit of luck today...

My guess that is aimed at TB, MM & SM?

A daft laddie who is too old to act like that. He lives around the corner from me and I see him in the shops occasionally, one hand scratching that thatch he calls a beard and the other plucking his nads out of his too, too tight trousers.

Poser who never once trapped a ball properly in his time at ER.

Good luck to nearly all of him (except the beard and the fashion sense.)

[Rory]

A daft laddie who is too old to act like that. He lives around the corner from me and I see him in the shops occasionally, one hand scratching that thatch he calls a beard and the other plucking his nads out of his too, too tight trousers.

Poser who never once trapped a ball properly in his time at ER.

Good luck to nearly all of him (except the beard and the fashion sense.)

post of the day

[500miles]

Depends how it was done. Possibly he was giving a few players the heads-up to get their agents on the job looking for new clubs for them? Lots of rumours circulate. There's probably a grounding of truth in some of them, but a lot depends on the way they're told and passed on. FWIW, Hibs seem to have had a crop of particularly delicate flowers the past few years.

Clancy came to us from Motherwell?

Was LD not at Fir Park by then?

Just a thought. Maybe I'm wrong. Often am.

The things I heard was that the new management went in to East Mains with all the tact and subtlety of a wrecking ball. For me, you have to recognise the players you have, and manage them appropriately. I don't think Hibs have had more delicate flowers than anyone else, but I would suggest that it is the place with a tougher learning curve and difficult to manage expectations. I know mere SPFL survival isn't good enough, but even when we are sitting higher in the table, it's still not good enough, and the players still get it in the ear. We need to understand that progress takes time, and put faith in the team and management - even when they make mistakes.

As for the Dempster reference, I thought it may have been a reference to the posts I have made previously about my cautious attitude to her track record at Motherwell, but I get you now. And you're correct about Clancy I think.

[jacomo]

The things I heard was that the new management went in to East Mains with all the tact and subtlety of a wrecking ball. For me, you have to recognise the players you have, and manage them appropriately. I don't think Hibs have had more delicate flowers than anyone else, but I would suggest that it is the place with a tougher learning curve and difficult to manage expectations. I know mere SPFL survival isn't good enough, but even when we are sitting higher in the table, it's still not good enough, and the players still get it in the ear. We need to understand that progress takes time, and put faith in the team and management - even when they make mistakes.

As for the Dempster reference, I thought it may have been a reference to the posts I have made previously about my cautious attitude to her track record at Motherwell, but I get you now. And you're correct about Clancy I think.

:agree: TB and MM have simply not got the best out of the resources at their disposal, and deserve criticism for that.

Shankly might have thrown his weight around, as did Alex Ferguson, but from a position of power - once you are established as top dog at the club you can act tough and people will listen, but you have to earn that first.

Progress does take time, but you need to see evidence of progress. Not sure we've seen any since New Year so fans' frustrations are understandable IMO.

[Jim44]

Vine and Clancy :rotflmao:

Silly boys for making a public attack on Hibs' management, even if they deserved it. Football tends to be a close community and they might find themselves alienated by the 'establishment' in the future. That's if they have a future.

[Pretty Boy]

Rowan Vine :faf:

[Captain Trips]

In my view if the players where worth anything they would have done their damnedest to prove him wrong, not chuck the towel in a give up. i dont want players with that attitude or mind set at hibs.

plus they haven't done themselves any favours in the shop window have they?

I agree that is something we do not want, I also do not want a manager putting players in that position either with what I would say was a very bad call. Lots of mistakes made this season by players and management.

[Lago]

To be fair to Clancy, it's difficult to help getting injured. I think the boy might be finished, but he was always committed on the park.
On the few occasions he played he looked average at best.

[weonlywon6-2]

If Butcher walked in a told half the dressing room that they weren't good enough and would be shipped out at the end of the season, he deserves all the stick he gets.
It has contributed to a drop in team morale and thereby our shocking record and place in this playoff.

However, he is getting a chance to fix his mess and hopefully build bridges with the people he alienated.


Is it true that butcher walked in and said that ??,i dunno and doubt others know exactly either.
Butcher is not the first and wont be the last to call his players poor if he did,its football,it happens

[Captain Trips]

Is it true that butcher walked in and said that ??,i dunno and doubt others know exactly either.
Butcher is not the first and wont be the last to call his players poor if he did,its football,it happens

Do it at right time though, I want any manager to go in and make the changes providing he has the replacements in hand as you do not know when you may then need a player you have already told not staying.

[500miles]

Is it true that butcher walked in and said that ??,i dunno and doubt others know exactly either.
Butcher is not the first and wont be the last to call his players poor if he did,its football,it happens

It's just a rumour, but he slated them in the press when we were just at the start of our poor streak, so I wouldn't be suprised if he went into the dressing room and really went off.

It wasn't the case that the players weren't working hard, some just weren't good enough. If Butcher bladed them, then they may well feel some bitterness.

[silverhibee]

In my view if the players where worth anything they would have done their damnedest to prove him wrong, not chuck the towel in a give up. i dont want players with that attitude or mind set at hibs.

plus they haven't done themselves any favours in the shop window have they?

Well said, doesn't matter what was said to them they should have been busting a gut as to impress any new clubs rather than downing tools and turning on the manager, Butcher will do the right thing with them after Sunday and let them know they aren't wanted at the club.

[Mark79]

see clancy has just been emptied by st johnstone this afternoon. Nay luck pal.

cregg, iwulemo and hasselbank too.

[truehibernian]

see clancy has just been emptied by st johnstone this afternoon. Nay luck pal.

cregg, iwulemo and hasselbank too.

Would take the wee man in an instant - cracking potential, knows the league, 'off your seat' player - only 23.

[--------]

The things I heard was that the new management went in to East Mains with all the tact and subtlety of a wrecking ball. For me, you have to recognise the players you have, and manage them appropriately. I don't think Hibs have had more delicate flowers than anyone else, but I would suggest that it is the place with a tougher learning curve and difficult to manage expectations. I know mere SPFL survival isn't good enough, but even when we are sitting higher in the table, it's still not good enough, and the players still get it in the ear. We need to understand that progress takes time, and put faith in the team and management - even when they make mistakes.

As for the Dempster reference, I thought it may have been a reference to the posts I have made previously about my cautious attitude to her track record at Motherwell, but I get you now. And you're correct about Clancy I think.


She seems to have done well at Fir park - well thought of and spoken of by most Motherwell fans I know, but I think (I'm not a finance expert so I'm not sure I've got this right) that the way forward she's constructed for the club (with Boyle's input and approval) requires a further investment from the fans of £350,000 -£500,000 fairly soon. The alternative would be Boyle 'seeking further investment' from businessmen in the Motherwell area. I don't KNOW, but I don't THINK that Motherwell are another Romanov/Jambos scenario in the making; I suspect that Boyle and Dempster have been guilty of nothing worse than over-estimating the potential fan-base they can count on for support.

Like anyone else coming into ER, LD will need to be given time to get to grips with things, and judged on her merits oince she's been in the job a few months (at least).

The thought I did have was that I earnestly hope she's more successful than Petrie's last (how many?) raft of appointments. He's not exactly got a stellar record of success in his head-hunting efforts over the past few years.

He appears to have a talent for making sow's ears out of silk purses.

[jeffers]

Well said, doesn't matter what was said to them they should have been busting a gut as to impress any new clubs rather than downing tools and turning on the manager, Butcher will do the right thing with them after Sunday and let them know they aren't wanted at the club.

And hopefully LD will do the same with Butcher.

[--------]

And hopefully LD will do the same with Butcher.


I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as I can see, we're back in the same old corner Petrie's had us in for the past 7 years - do we carry on with a manager who's struggling, or sack him and start the same old merry-go-round spinning all over again?

Can we even afford to part company with not just Butcher, but Malpas and Marsella as well right now?

[givescotlandfreedom]

see clancy has just been emptied by st johnstone this afternoon. Nay luck pal.

cregg, iwulemo and hasselbank too.

Not sure how he can have it in for us when he was paid for months on end for doing absolutely nothing.

[jeffers]

I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as I can see, we're back in the same old corner Petrie's had us in for the past 7 years - do we carry on with a manager who's struggling, or sack him and start the same old merry-go-round spinning all over again?

Can we even afford to part company with not just Butcher, but Malpas and Marsella as well right now?

Wishful thinking on my part Doddie. I don't see how we can afford to sack them, I'd love them to just quit, but if we survive can't see that happening either.

[Hiber-nation]

A daft laddie who is too old to act like that. He lives around the corner from me and I see him in the shops occasionally, one hand scratching that thatch he calls a beard and the other plucking his nads out of his too, too tight trousers.

Poser who never once trapped a ball properly in his time at ER.

Good luck to nearly all of him (except the beard and the fashion sense.)

Vine lives in Paris?

[Captain Trips]

I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as I can see, we're back in the same old corner Petrie's had us in for the past 7 years - do we carry on with a manager who's struggling, or sack him and start the same old merry-go-round spinning all over again?

Can we even afford to part company with not just Butcher, but Malpas and Marsella as well right now?

The merry go round on this occasion is going backwards

[silverhibee]

And hopefully LD will do the same with Butcher.

It's not going to happen mate, Terry Butcher will be our manager next season whether you like it or not, yeah he has got some things wrong since he came here but hopefully he gets the chance this summer to get rid of the losers wearing the Hibs jersey for this season and he brings in a group of his own players in the summer who will bust a gut for him next season.

Then we can judge him.

[JimBHibees]

I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as I can see, we're back in the same old corner Petrie's had us in for the past 7 years - do we carry on with a manager who's struggling, or sack him and start the same old merry-go-round spinning all over again?

Can we even afford to part company with not just Butcher, but Malpas and Marsella as well right now?

Or we can do the radical thing and give them time and proper resources to sort out the team?

[JimBHibees]

It's not going to happen mate, Terry Butcher will be our manager next season whether you like it or not, yeah he has got some things wrong since he came here but hopefully he gets the chance this summer to get rid of the losers wearing the Hibs jersey for this season and he brings in a group of his own players in the summer who will bust a gut for him next season.

Then we can judge him.

Agree.

[silverhibee]

I wouldn't hold my breath. As far as I can see, we're back in the same old corner Petrie's had us in for the past 7 years - do we carry on with a manager who's struggling, or sack him and start the same old merry-go-round spinning all over again?

Can we even afford to part company with not just Butcher, but Malpas and Marsella as well right now?


There is only one answer to that Doddie and it is "NO".

[Kato]

Vine lives in Paris?

My location is Paris, I don't live there. Unless Inspector Clouseau calls.

[Captain Trips]

There is only one answer to that Doddie and it is "NO".

I understand what you are saying Silver so if he took over and we lost every match 5-0 we can't sack him?

[jeffers]

It's not going to happen mate, Terry Butcher will be our manager next season whether you like it or not, yeah he has got some things wrong since he came here but hopefully he gets the chance this summer to get rid of the losers wearing the Hibs jersey for this season and he brings in a group of his own players in the summer who will bust a gut for him next season.

Then we can judge him.

Yeah unfortunately silver I think you are right. While some of the players def are not good enough I think TB's management of them has been a disaster. I know I keep going on about it but the fact they don't appear to want KT astounds me and is a shocking decision on their part IMO.

[Hiber-nation]

My location is Paris, I don't live there. Unless Inspector Clouseau calls.

:greengrin

[Ricky Bobby]

It's not going to happen mate, Terry Butcher will be our manager next season whether you like it or not, yeah he has got some things wrong since he came here but hopefully he gets the chance this summer to get rid of the losers wearing the Hibs jersey for this season and he brings in a group of his own players in the summer who will bust a gut for him next season.

Then we can judge him.


I agree completely, he has got a few things wrong, but this squad of players are almost entirely to blame.Some are just not good enough which is fine, they will hopefully move on in the summer. It is the players who have shown a bit of ability in the past and are just plainly under performing that are the biggest problem. Regardless if they are not keen on Butcher or his methods they should still be giving their best efforts and if they are not it makes them wage thieves and the sooner they are emptied the better.

[Baker9]

Yeah unfortunately silver I think you are right. While some of the players def are not good enough I think TB's management of them has been a disaster. I know I keep going on about it but the fact they don't appear to want KT astounds me and is a shocking decision on their part IMO.

It's not that surprising when Butcher stated honestly and openly when he first came that the key attributes he wanted from his players were energy and attitude. They obviously feel that KT is short of these. Vine probably didn't fit the bill on attitude.

[Dan Sarf]

A mate of mine who is a life-long Leeds supporter (but he's alright, honestly) sent me this message before last night's game. An interesting view of where both clubs stand...


I wish you luck for tonight in what will undoubtedly be the most gruelling of evenings. I read a rather sad and shocking interview with Terry Butcher, who is clearly completely bewildered by your disastrous form. It must be an awful thing as a manager to watch everything you thought you know turn to **** - to put it politely - and every tactic prove more hopeless than the last. Over the years I've gained a curious respect for the hopeless Kevin Keegan (managerially) who admitted when he quit England that he had no idea what to do anymore, which was rather derided at the time but now feels oddly heroic, though painfully revealing. I think sometimes a horrible poison seeps into a team and the only cure is root and branch renewal from top to bottom, which often involves relegation - though not, I hope, in your case. For Leeds it's clear the rot has so permeated the club at so many levels that it may take an out and out REDACTED like Cellino to finally put it right, though even he, no stranger to REDACTED one suspects, seems startled by the sheer depth and range of the problems at Elland Road. Clearly he's wealthier than me but perhaps his millions were slightly illusory, as he's clearly in no hurry to spend any of it, which may actually be quite sensible when it comes to Leeds. I think a lot of us would quite like to start again using mostly the youth team, except for the fact that might end in disaster too as our youth team isn't that good. God knows where we go from here - in both our cases. The one thing I will say is that it's hard to face a season like the last one and it does actually lower the spirits; awful football, awful management, no hope at all of any kind. I've seen most things as a Leeds Utd fan, but not usually such a depth of apathy and resignation. On the plus side, though, we do still have Matt "much taller than the one in Doctor Who" Smith who I actually think might be the next Andy Carroll only not quite so psychotic. Is that a good thing? As far as Leeds go, yes.

[jdships]

Is it true that butcher walked in and said that ??,i dunno and doubt others know exactly either.
Butcher is not the first and wont be the last to call his players poor if he did,its football,it happens

Absolutely !!
Been sitting here thinking of something to write in reply to these "theories/accusations/rumours/assumptions" whatever you want to call them and you have come up with the perfect reply :thumbsup:

This is football and professional football into the bargain not a children's play group .
Many years ago our manager after a 4-0 defeat came into the dressing room and asked us " do you lot like working here ? If the answers yes you better get your f..n fingers out and show me that you do as it is only four weeks to the end of the season and the list of "frees" will be on the board soon . Prima Donnas belong on the stage not on a football pitch "
Remember Bertie Mee's quote " A manager is only as good and safe as his last result "
I came home and told my parents who thankfully wrote it down in the book they kept about my football career - all three years of it - YEEESSSSSSSSS !!!!

:greengrin:rolleyes:

[weonlywon6-2]

It's just a rumour, but he slated them in the press when we were just at the start of our poor streak, so I wouldn't be suprised if he went into the dressing room and really went off.

It wasn't the case that the players weren't working hard, some just weren't good enough. If Butcher bladed them, then they may well feel some bitterness.

Possibly he did who knows,we wouldnt have been in this position if we scored goals ,had we done this we wouldnt be having this discussion

[weonlywon6-2]

Wishful thinking on my part Doddie. I don't see how we can afford to sack them, I'd love them to just quit, but if we survive can't see that happening either.

I cant see him going but was told yeaterday that butcher will be on his way after sunday no matter the result,dont believe it though and to be honest hope not cause i still believe we will turn the corner

[--------]

There is only one answer to that Doddie and it is "NO".


I know that. I was trying to be polite, asking the question rather than stating what you and I know very well is the eye-curdling bleeding obvious.

One of the worst effects of Petrie's mismanagement (IMO) is that after 7 years and six? seven? managers (losing count) in that time, he's got us to a place where we're damned if we keep the one we have, and damned if we sack him.

And that's been true since Mixu's time, I'd reckon.

[--------]

A mate of mine who is a life-long Leeds supporter (but he's alright, honestly) sent me this message before last night's game. An interesting view of where both clubs stand...


I wish you luck for tonight in what will undoubtedly be the most gruelling of evenings. I read a rather sad and shocking interview with Terry Butcher, who is clearly completely bewildered by your disastrous form. It must be an awful thing as a manager to watch everything you thought you know turn to **** - to put it politely - and every tactic prove more hopeless than the last. Over the years I've gained a curious respect for the hopeless Kevin Keegan (managerially) who admitted when he quit England that he had no idea what to do anymore, which was rather derided at the time but now feels oddly heroic, though painfully revealing. I think sometimes a horrible poison seeps into a team and the only cure is root and branch renewal from top to bottom, which often involves relegation - though not, I hope, in your case. For Leeds it's clear the rot has so permeated the club at so many levels that it may take an out and out REDACTED like Cellino to finally put it right, though even he, no stranger to REDACTED one suspects, seems startled by the sheer depth and range of the problems at Elland Road. Clearly he's wealthier than me but perhaps his millions were slightly illusory, as he's clearly in no hurry to spend any of it, which may actually be quite sensible when it comes to Leeds. I think a lot of us would quite like to start again using mostly the youth team, except for the fact that might end in disaster too as our youth team isn't that good. God knows where we go from here - in both our cases. The one thing I will say is that it's hard to face a season like the last one and it does actually lower the spirits; awful football, awful management, no hope at all of any kind. I've seen most things as a Leeds Utd fan, but not usually such a depth of apathy and resignation. On the plus side, though, we do still have Matt "much taller than the one in Doctor Who" Smith who I actually think might be the next Andy Carroll only not quite so psychotic. Is that a good thing? As far as Leeds go, yes.


OOH - mixed emotions!

Great sympathy for your pal, but if DRU are REALLY as screwed as he says they are .... :hmmm:

I don't know what to say.

[jeffers]

It's not that surprising when Butcher stated honestly and openly when he first came that the key attributes he wanted from his players were energy and attitude. They obviously feel that KT is short of these. Vine probably didn't fit the bill on attitude.

Bit in bold, not seen much evidence of that. He's come out with one lot of crap after another. And if he doesn't think KT offers energy and attitude he must be watching a different player from me. And if energy is what he is looking for then explain OTJ getting selected, I'm struggling to think of a player who offers less........

[Arch Stanton]

For me Butcher was totally right in rooting out problems in the squad - but he either did it badly or he did it at the wrong time (i.e. before this season was properly done and dusted) and I actually think it was the latter.

However, if he gets away with it, and we stay up, then he will be well placed to put things right for next season - getting rid of him would be a mistake

[greenlex]

Yeah unfortunately silver I think you are right. While some of the players def are not good enough I think TB's management of them has been a disaster. I know I keep going on about it but the fact they don't appear to want KT astounds me and is a shocking decision on their part IMO.In the January window there were players who were told they didn't have a future with the club. One of those was Kevin Thomson. They were told that if they found new clubs they would be released. Probably to release wages for other players to come in during that window. A few left and a few came in. Kevin Thomson was not one who chose to leave. He stayed and proved the Management team wrong. Credit to both parties in my opinion. As for Vine and Clancy I think the credit goes to the management team on them both for very different reasons. Butcher will succeed at Hibs but it obviously aint gonna be overnight.

[Scouse Hibee]

Clancy was at it as well saying Butcher s celebration with fans at full time was embarrassing. Oh and guess what. ..old glass groins is injured and out for 6 to 9 months...no #### sherlock !!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I agree with Clancy and said the same last night, cringeworthy from Butcher in my opinion, but hey ho we won so I've forgotten about it now.

[jeffers]

In the January window there were players who were told they didn't have a future with the club. One of those was Kevin Thomson. They were told that if they found new clubs they would be released. Probably to release wages for other players to come in during that window. A few left and a few came in. Kevin Thomson was not one who chose to leave. He stayed and proved the Management team wrong. Credit to both parties in my opinion. As for Vine and Clancy I think the credit goes to the management team on them both for very different reasons. Butcher will succeed at Hibs but it obviously aint gonna be overnight.

The first bit in bold I cannot understand why. The one player in our squad with class, composure and experience of playing at a higher level, yet not that long in the door and they decide he is surplus to requirements. WTF are they thinking ? And 2nd bit in bold totally agree he has proved them wrong but yet they still decide he doesn't merit a new deal. Sorry greenlex, but can't agree TB & MM deserve any credit whatsoever for their handling of the whole situation - credit would be deserved if they admitted their mistake and offered him the new deal he deserves and by all accounts wants. IMO they just come across as very petty in refusing to acknowledge they were wrong about him.

[21.05.2016]

Very classy indeed :rolleyes:


Vine is one of the worst strikers i've ever seen in a hibs jersey (and that says something!) and Clancy was hopeless aswell. The pair of them couldn't make it in a team thats fighting relegation so those absolute NOBODIES are the only embarrasing themselves here.

[Albion Hibs]

Maybe vine is just annoyed that he did not get any good luck messages before Hamilton rammed 10 past the team that bearded muppet plays for.

[Arch Stanton]

The first bit in bold I cannot understand why. The one player in our squad with class, composure and experience of playing at a higher level, yet not that long in the door and they decide he is surplus to requirements. WTF are they thinking ? And 2nd bit in bold totally agree he has proved them wrong but yet they still decide he doesn't merit a new deal. Sorry greenlex, but can't agree TB & MM deserve any credit whatsoever for their handling of the whole situation - credit would be deserved if they admitted their mistake and offered him the new deal he deserves and by all accounts wants. IMO they just come across as very petty in refusing to acknowledge they were wrong about him.

That argument would only make sense if there wasn't likely to be a better option in the upcoming transfer market which is hardly likely.

Letting him know they would not be renewing his contract doesn't sound like such an evil thing if that was indeed the truth - worse if they'd strung him along I reckon. Both him and and Taiwo were in the same boat and both played well when selected, which is as it should be IMO.

[ekhibee]

Yeah unfortunately silver I think you are right. While some of the players def are not good enough I think TB's management of them has been a disaster. I know I keep going on about it but the fact they don't appear to want KT astounds me and is a shocking decision on their part IMO.
Unfortunately jeffers, yes, you do keep going on about it as you just said. There is no actual proof whatsoever that Kevin Thomson isn't wanted by Hibs unless you believe some of the people on here who make out they're 'in the know.' But in any case, if you do believe them, you probably heard the rumour going round the other day that Thomson and Butcher had resolved their differences (if there were any in the first place). You make a lot of good points on your posts, and I agree with a lot of them, but not this sadly.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Unfortunately jeffers, yes, you do keep going on about it as you just said. There is no actual proof whatsoever that Kevin Thomson isn't wanted by Hibs unless you believe some of the people on here who make out they're 'in the know.' But in any case, if you do believe them, you probably heard the rumour going round the other day that Thomson and Butcher had resolved their differences (if there were any in the first place). You make a lot of good points on your posts, and I agree with a lot of them, but not this sadly.



he's not been the same since MM told him to STFU/**** off etc etc :greengrin

[jeffers]

Unfortunately jeffers, yes, you do keep going on about it as you just said. There is no actual proof whatsoever that Kevin Thomson isn't wanted by Hibs unless you believe some of the people on here who make out they're 'in the know.' But in any case, if you do believe them, you probably heard the rumour going round the other day that Thomson and Butcher had resolved their differences (if there were any in the first place). You make a lot of good points on your posts, and I agree with a lot of them, but not this sadly.

You are correct I have no proof he is not wanted by TB, what I do however have is belief in what guys like thecat23 and SMAXXA post + a couple of sources of my own. All point to him not being offered a new deal. If he does get one I will be one of the first people to come on here and praise TB for being big enough to admit he was wrong.

And yes I go on about as I find it bewildering that he doesn't get a regular game and probably won't get a new deal when Liam Craig has been woeful for months, OTJ does heehaw when he comes on and even Scott Robertson (who I like as a player) comes almost straight back in the team after injury and has been pretty poor since his return. Fair enough if you don't agree with me on this point, this board is all about opinions.

As for not being the same since my altercation with MM, can anyone on here honestly tell me KT hasn't performed since they finally saw sense and selected him......:wink:

[silverhibee]

I understand what you are saying Silver so if he took over and we lost every match 5-0 we can't sack him?

But that's not happening so i can't say :greengrin.

He will be our manager next season, new players of his own choice see how we go, if it ain't working then will be the time to judge him.

[ekhibee]

You are correct I have no proof he is not wanted by TB, what I do however have is belief in what guys like thecat23 and SMAXXA post + a couple of sources of my own. All point to him not being offered a new deal. If he does get one I will be one of the first people to come on here and praise TB for being big enough to admit he was wrong.

And yes I go on about as I find it bewildering that he doesn't get a regular game and probably won't get a new deal when Liam Craig has been woeful for months, OTJ does heehaw when he comes on and even Scott Robertson (who I like as a player) comes almost straight back in the team after injury and has been pretty poor since his return. Fair enough if you don't agree with me on this point, this board is all about opinions.

As for not being the same since my altercation with MM, can anyone on here honestly tell me KT hasn't performed since they finally saw sense and selected him......:wink:
Of course nobody could say Thomson hasn't performed, and I agree that Tudor-Jones is poor, Craig, for the most part too. I'm not having a go at you at all, you just speak your mind which is what everybody should do on a board like this. I would ask you though, Thomson missed a lot of games through injury, do you think the manager was lying about that? I'm not being sarcastic or trying to wind you up in any way, but if the player was injured he couldn't play him no? Butcher also explained the reason for Thomson not playing at New Douglas Park before the game. Thomson will definitely be playing in the 2nd leg. I'd just be interested to know what you think.

[IberianHibernian]

What did St J fans think of Vine ? He seemed to do a good job for them last season and hardly played any full matches for us before being pushed out . Was never going to be a new Griffiths but don`t think he deserves flak he`s had here at times .

[Callum_62]

I agree with Clancy and said the same last night, cringeworthy from Butcher in my opinion, but hey ho we won so I've forgotten about it now.

Manager celebrates 1st win in months with big away support - in the 1st leg of game that determines our survival in the top league

We shouldnt be in this position - but we certainly shouldnt be above celebrating a win now we are

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Irrelevant no-mark. Hope he gets food poisoning.

[Scouse Hibee]

Manager celebrates 1st win in months with big away support - in the 1st leg of game that determines our survival in the top league

We shouldnt be in this position - but we certainly shouldnt be above celebrating a win now we are


Should have applauded the fans and left it at that in my opinion, giving it the big one was ridiculous, embarrassing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And no it's not the six second video :greengrin

@rowanvine: Good luck to all the Hibs players and nearly all of the staff who deserve a bit of luck today...

My guess that is aimed at TB, MM & SM?

I've read this a couple of times now and don't get it. What's the insult?

[McSwanky]

Should have applauded the fans and left it at that in my opinion, giving it the big one was ridiculous, embarrassing.

Lighten up!

[IberianHibernian]

Should have applauded the fans and left it at that in my opinion, giving it the big one was ridiculous, embarrassing.
Agree but he`s understandably looking for support from somewhere and trying to stir up support from fans . Noticed that all the players seemed to ignore him as they went off . Anyway , time to get second leg over with and then whoever is making decisions to decide on management team for next season .

[Jim44]

I've read this a couple of times now and don't get it. What's the insult?

You don't really expect anyone to answer you. But it's no big deal, just the immature mentality of someone who is clearly not very bright.

[jeffers]

Of course nobody could say Thomson hasn't performed, and I agree that Tudor-Jones is poor, Craig, for the most part too. I'm not having a go at you at all, you just speak your mind which is what everybody should do on a board like this. I would ask you though, Thomson missed a lot of games through injury, do you think the manager was lying about that? I'm not being sarcastic or trying to wind you up in any way, but if the player was injured he couldn't play him no? Butcher also explained the reason for Thomson not playing at New Douglas Park before the game. Thomson will definitely be playing in the 2nd leg. I'd just be interested to know what you think.

I didn't take it that you were having a go, we are just having a reasoned discussion.

Part my interpretation of things and part what I've heard but TB was claiming earlier in the season that KT still wasn't fit when he was. TB has come out with so much crap and changed his opinion on quite a few things to the extent that I struggle to believe much of what he says. So yes I think he was lying.

I think that TB has an issue with KT and that is clouding his judgement. For example he came on against Hearts at Tynecastle made an improvement to the team, yet doesn't start the next game. Last night he was on the bench so presumably was fit enough to come on, but instead of replacing Scott Robertson with him he brings on OTJ, a player who has offered absolutely nothing since he joined us in the summer. If TB genuinely thinks OTJ is a better option that KT I truly despair, so the only other conclusion I can come to is it's personal.

As for him playing on Sunday I don't expect him to, I expect the same team that started last night to start again, despite there being a few I would have nowhere near the starting 11.

[IberianHibernian]

Has Taiwo left or is he " injured " ? If he`s left , why didn`t club announce it ? Likewise Zoubir . In modern football , players change clubs regularly but that doesn`t mean fans don`t want to know who`s leaving / staying or that players don`t appreciate some recognition when they leave a club . Realise that last 6 months have been so bad that player farewells haven`t been a priority but players leaving without mention or being pushed out can`t help us when trying to sign new players .

[Baker9]

Bit in bold, not seen much evidence of that. He's come out with one lot of crap after another. And if he doesn't think KT offers energy and attitude he must be watching a different player from me. And if energy is what he is looking for then explain OTJ getting selected, I'm struggling to think of a player who offers less........

I'm pretty certain he said it and it would be fair to describe his ICT team as filled with energy and attitude (and decent football as a given). He sold OTJ to us and then hardly played him when he came here - interesting to see what happens to OTJ next season but he is / was an viable option for us this season.

[jeffers]

I'm pretty certain he said it and it would be fair to describe his ICT team as filled with energy and attitude (and decent football as a given). He sold OTJ to us and then hardly played him when he came here - interesting to see what happens to OTJ next season but he is / was an viable option for us this season.

He didn't sell OTJ to us, he wanted to keep him, OTJ just fancied the move. IMO my point still stands, he offers us nothing.

[easty]

Clancy seemed better than his predecessors in right back but his injury record is an absolute joke. He was literally being paid to heal. And still is at the Saints


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dunno bout that. His performance against Falkirk in the semi was maybe the worst full back performance I've seen from a Hibs player.

[Smartie]

He didn't sell OTJ to us, he wanted to keep him, OTJ just fancied the move. IMO my point still stands, he offers us nothing.

OTJ has been injured for much of the time Butcher's been here. Whilst I agree that he's offered us little so far he certainly did well at ICT and I think that he's one who starts next season with a clean slate. I think he could do a job playing more regularly in a more settled team.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Clancy is an idiot with poor grammatical "skills". Deadwood.

[talcy]

What did St J fans think of Vine ? He seemed to do a good job for them last season and hardly played any full matches for us before being pushed out . Was never going to be a new Griffiths but don`t think he deserves flak he`s had here at times .

What does it matter what they think or what Vine did at St J? He was utter gash at Hibs. Dis-interested, lazy & a disgrace to the shirt. I've been vocal about mistakes Butcher's made, but getting rid of Vine was bang on & sent a clear message about standards. An SPFL player dropping down to Morton should have made a big impact for them. He didn't, so he's not an SPFL player & we're well rid.

[Captain Trips]

But that's not happening so i can't say :greengrin.

He will be our manager next season, new players of his own choice see how we go, if it ain't working then will be the time to judge him.

IMO Hibs could have potentially made a fair chunk or maybe all of a severence pay for TB in the tv rights on Wednesday and gate recipts for Sunday as these are 2 matches not likely to have been accounted for. I judge a manager from day one onwards and over the last 3/4 months I do not wish him to be given 1p to build a team. I think after 6 months in charge "see how we go" shouldnt really be where we are at should it? "see how we go" is manger day 1 with no results behind him at the club. After 6 (25/26 matches) months should it not be we did well xyz and abc so therefore looking forward to next season as did this and that in tough situation. No we are at 100% hope still.

Vine however is p1sh so that is one decision he got right.

[0762]

Both Vine and Clancy are a throw back to the former regime under Fenlon. Clancy - Vine - Hard to believe that guy was sold for a couple of million pound a few years ago. One of these players who should probably done something in the game where instead he's amount to nothing. Destined to play his final years in the lower leagues. Clancy - understand even Fenlon was sick of him. Just declared himself unfit for the third cup final in a row. Had the misfortune of meeting him a couple of times through a mate.....classless individual who thought he was a better player than he was. Didn't believe a Motherwell mate how bad he was when we signed him....god he was so right. Two players who where both given a chance at our Club but both failed to deliver. Neither will be missed. :bye: Isn't it funny that the former players who performed well for Hibs always talk highly of the Club but those who fail to deliver take pops at the Club once they leave.

[MrRobot]

Both Vine and Clancy are a throw back to the former regime under Fenlon. Clancy - Vine - Hard to believe that guy was sold for a couple of million pound a few years ago. One of these players who should probably done something in the game where instead he's amount to nothing. Destined to play his final years in the lower leagues. Clancy - understand even Fenlon was sick of him. Just declared himself unfit for the third cup final in a row. Had the misfortune of meeting him a couple of times through a mate.....classless individual who thought he was a better player than he was. Didn't believe a Motherwell mate how bad he was when we signed him....god he was so right. Two players who where both given a chance at our Club but both failed to deliver. Neither will be missed. :bye: Isn't it funny that the former players who performed well for Hibs always talk highly of the Club but those who fail to deliver take pops at the Club once they leave.


Amadou Konte must hate us then :greengrin

[Ricky Bobby]

IMO Hibs could have potentially made a fair chunk or maybe all of a severence pay for TB in the tv rights on Wednesday and gate recipts for Sunday as these are 2 matches not likely to have been accounted for. I judge a manager from day one onwards and over the last 3/4 months I do not wish him to be given 1p to build a team. I think after 6 months in charge "see how we go" shouldnt really be where we are at should it? "see how we go" is manger day 1 with no results behind him at the club. After 6 (25/26 matches) months should it not be we did well xyz and abc so therefore looking forward to next season as did this and that in tough situation. No we are at 100% hope still.

Vine however is p1sh so that is one decision he got right.

Cant agree with this. Butcher came in to poorly performing side with a group of players who are plainly not good enough. Most of these pkayers were brought in by Pat, whos signing policy was bringing in players out of desperation for results.
Butcher should be given time to build his own team. Anyone that has seen ICT over the last couple of years would see that they played with pace, hard work and skill under Butcher. Qualities we have not seen at ER for a while now.

[Peevemor]

IMO Hibs could have potentially made a fair chunk or maybe all of a severence pay for TB in the tv rights on Wednesday and gate recipts for Sunday as these are 2 matches not likely to have been accounted for. I judge a manager from day one onwards and over the last 3/4 months I do not wish him to be given 1p to build a team. I think after 6 months in charge "see how we go" shouldnt really be where we are at should it? "see how we go" is manger day 1 with no results behind him at the club. After 6 (25/26 matches) months should it not be we did well xyz and abc so therefore looking forward to next season as did this and that in tough situation. No we are at 100% hope still.

Vine however is p1sh so that is one decision he got right.

It appears not. In Butcher's first 8 games in charge, we won 4, drew 3 and lost 1 (0-1 away at Parkhead).

But why let the facts get in the way of a good moan?

[Captain Trips]

Cant agree with this. Butcher came in to poorly performing side with a group of players who are plainly not good enough. Most of these pkayers were brought in by Pat, whos signing policy was bringing in players out of desperation for results.
Butcher should be given time to build his own team. Anyone that has seen ICT over the last couple of years would see that they played with pace, hard work and skill under Butcher. Qualities we have not seen at ER for a while now.

Fair enough we both evaluate what he came into differently, you say poor I say average side better than 11th place finish. Every manager joins a club with all the players signed be last manager. He isnt at ICT he doesnt have that team and doesnt have the same circumstances either.

What did Fenlons previous record indicate? James Collins record before Hibs impressive I think? What went on at different club doesnt mean it will occur here. I am interested in what happens at Hibs and for me the team was average and he made it worse. It appears you blame Fenlon for the last 6 months and in judging TB you seem to think ok to ignore any part in last 6 months and talk of times at a totally different club as an indicator of whats to come.

This is all about opinion and the main thing is although we disagree we both think our opinion is what would be best for Hibs. I am going to hope to be wrong here as I think we are keeping him.

[Captain Trips]

It appears not. In Butcher's first 8 games in charge, we won 4, drew 3 and lost 1 (0-1 away at Parkhead).

But why let the facts get in the way of a good moan?

What even does this mean? What facts? I judge him from day one to now. Did I say after 8 games he should be sacked? No I didnt. So I really fail to understand what you are even talking about.

[ekhibee]

Fair enough we both evaluate what he came into differently, you say poor I say average side better than 11th place finish. Every manager joins a club with all the players signed be last manager. He isnt at ICT he doesnt have that team and doesnt have the same circumstances either.

What did Fenlons previous record indicate? James Collins record before Hibs impressive I think? What went on at different club doesnt mean it will occur here. I am interested in what happens at Hibs and for me the team was average and he made it worse. It appears you blame Fenlon for the last 6 months and in judging TB you seem to think ok to ignore any part in last 6 months and talk of times at a totally different club as an indicator of whats to come.

This is all about opinion and the main thing is although we disagree we both think our opinion is what would be best for Hibs. I am going to hope to be wrong here as I think we are keeping him.
I can see where you're coming from Carlsberg, and it's a subject that arouses a lot of contradictory opinions, but your last paragraph is exactly right. We all want what's best for Hibs, we just disagree on the way to go about it.

[TornadoHibby]

Cant agree with this. Butcher came in to poorly performing side with a group of players who are plainly not good enough. Most of these pkayers were brought in by Pat, whos signing policy was bringing in players out of desperation for results.
Butcher should be given time to build his own team. Anyone that has seen ICT over the last couple of years would see that they played with pace, hard work and skill under Butcher. Qualities we have not seen at ER for a while now.

I keep hearing this stuff about ICT being a Case Study for assessing the perfomance of a good football manager against when in fact what we have seen this year is some of the worst football that we have EVER seen at ER in living memory of fans still regularly attending matches! :confused:

I'm tired saying this but any DECENT manager inheriting a team inevitably takes time to replaced duds in his team so has to set about making what team members he has do the job he wants done as well as it can possibly be done. Most team members listen to new direction and encouragement etc and the team improves its performance in line with the new manager who is responsible for their individual and team performances. :agree:

Football is a bit different in that there are only two periods where new players can be brought into any club and TB missed out on that one and brough in three players who have done nothing of note or benefit to the team or club since they arrived at ER! :agree:

TB knew he had that window, knew what he was coming into player pool wise (and if he didn't then that alone is decent grounds for firing him on incompetence IMO) so he must have thought that he could get to the end of the season in a decent league position, maybe even top 6 as Pat F left him in! :agree:

However, he (allegedly) told a number of the players that they were ***** (sorry "surplus to requirements") and should gtf as they would be going at the end of the season anyway! :rolleyes:

From a decent start of 4 wins in the first 8 games (IIRC) we then had one more win until Wednesday and the football has been absolutely terrible!

Who is responsible for that if not TB and MM!? :confused:

Its defo not Pat F IMO! :agree:

Oh aye, check TB's Wiki page and let us all know if there are any more ICT type "success stories" for us to investigate or did he usually get emptied within the first few months of his appointment?! :dunno:

Personally, I'd rather see TB and MM replaced after this week-end but suspect that won't happen. :rolleyes:

I have to decide if I want to risk the price of a ST renewal before 1st June for more football like we have seen since Pat F left! :hmmm:

[jeffers]

I keep hearing this stuff about ICT being a Case Study for assessing the perfomance of a good football manager against when in fact what we have seen this year is some of the worst football that we have EVER seen at ER in living memory of fans still regularly attending matches! :confused:

I'm tired saying this but any DECENT manager inheriting a team inevitably takes time to replaced duds in his team so has to set about making what team members he has do the job he wants done as well as it can possibly be done. Most team members listen to new direction and encouragement etc and the team improves its performance in line with the new manager who is responsible for their individual and team performances. :agree:

Football is a bit different in that there are only two periods where new players can be brought into any club and TB missed out on that one and brough in three players who have done nothing of note or benefit to the team or club since they arrived at ER! :agree:

TB knew he had that window, knew what he was coming into player pool wise (and if he didn't then that alone is decent grounds for firing him on incompetence IMO) so he must have thought that he could get to the end of the season in a decent league position, maybe even top 6 as Pat F left him in! :agree:

However, he (allegedly) told a number of the players that they were ***** (sorry "surplus to requirements") and should gtf as they would be going at the end of the season anyway! :rolleyes:

From a decent start of 4 wins in the first 8 games (IIRC) we then had one more win until Wednesday and the football has been absolutely terrible!

Who is responsible for that if not TB and MM!? :confused:

Its defo not Pat F IMO! :agree:

Oh aye, check TB's Wiki page and let us all know if there are any more ICT type "success stories" for us to investigate or did he usually get emptied within the first few months of his appointment?! :dunno:

Personally, I'd rather see TB and MM replaced after this week-end but suspect that won't happen. :rolleyes:

I have to decide if I want to risk the price of a ST renewal before 1st June for more football like we have seen since Pat F left! :hmmm:

Agree with every word TH, especially the bit in bold.

[Peevemor]

What even does this mean? What facts? I judge him from day one to now. Did I say after 8 games he should be sacked? No I didnt. So I really fail to understand what you are even talking about.

No, you said nothing after 8 games as things were going OK. You waited until things were bad before coming back on here and giving us all the benefit of your monotonous negativity.

[greenlex]

I keep hearing this stuff about ICT being a Case Study for assessing the perfomance of a good football manager against when in fact what we have seen this year is some of the worst football that we have EVER seen at ER in living memory of fans still regularly attending matches! :confused:The Players are the same players that Pat Fenlon left us with. We were hardly braziianesque under Fenlon so Im not sure what folks expected short term from Butcher. Its certainly no worse than under Fenlon so I don't know what you've been watching. I defended Fenlon right up till the end asking fans to give him more time. The squad is weak with little creativity and absolutely no pace. In short we are where we are largely because of the downward spiral from as far back as Hughes Mixu etc onwards. I said at the time that those two in particular were setting us back 5 years. Add Calderwoods disasterous tenure into the pot and here we are. Fenlon was getting there and needed probably another two seasons to complete the rebuild. He chose to walk. Butcher has come in and has the rest to do if not actually start again. Nobody could have saw the collapse in results from the draws with Motherwell (which we should have won) and Inverness. If anyone is saying they did they are either lying or kidding themselves on. Are the management team responsible for that collapse? We could argue the toss about that forever. Facts are we are where we are but we have a management team proven in our league who will get it done in time. They had absolutely zero budget in January to improve things and guess what? They didn't. Possibly with the bigger picture in mind they thought they didn't need to strengthen and could get to the end of the season comfortably.Lets see what they can do over the next couple of seasons with our resources. We really need to get together here and move forward IMO. Lets get the job done on Sunday as its far from over and move on.

[blackpoolhibs]

I keep hearing this stuff about ICT being a Case Study for assessing the perfomance of a good football manager against when in fact what we have seen this year is some of the worst football that we have EVER seen at ER in living memory of fans still regularly attending matches! :confused:

I'm tired saying this but any DECENT manager inheriting a team inevitably takes time to replaced duds in his team so has to set about making what team members he has do the job he wants done as well as it can possibly be done. Most team members listen to new direction and encouragement etc and the team improves its performance in line with the new manager who is responsible for their individual and team performances. :agree:

Football is a bit different in that there are only two periods where new players can be brought into any club and TB missed out on that one and brough in three players who have done nothing of note or benefit to the team or club since they arrived at ER! :agree:

TB knew he had that window, knew what he was coming into player pool wise (and if he didn't then that alone is decent grounds for firing him on incompetence IMO) so he must have thought that he could get to the end of the season in a decent league position, maybe even top 6 as Pat F left him in! :agree:

However, he (allegedly) told a number of the players that they were ***** (sorry "surplus to requirements") and should gtf as they would be going at the end of the season anyway! :rolleyes:

From a decent start of 4 wins in the first 8 games (IIRC) we then had one more win until Wednesday and the football has been absolutely terrible!

Who is responsible for that if not TB and MM!? :confused:

Its defo not Pat F IMO! :agree:

Oh aye, check TB's Wiki page and let us all know if there are any more ICT type "success stories" for us to investigate or did he usually get emptied within the first few months of his appointment?!

Personally, I'd rather see TB and MM replaced after this week-end but suspect that won't happen. :rolleyes:

I have to decide if I want to risk the price of a ST renewal before 1st June for more football like we have seen since Pat F left! :hmmm:


:top marks

[Captain Trips]

No, you said nothing after 8 games as things were going OK. You waited until things were bad before coming back on here and giving us all the benefit of your monotonous negativity.

Bored a 2 weeks ago with me. Monotonous now. Why are you wasting your time and mine replying to me? With drivel. I am only interested in discussing Hibs. I care not a jot if I bore you.

[Lucius Apuleius]

If Butcher walked in a told half the dressing room that they weren't good enough and would be shipped out at the end of the season, he deserves all the stick he gets.
It has contributed to a drop in team morale and thereby our shocking record and place in this playoff.

However, he is getting a chance to fix his mess and hopefully build bridges with the people he alienated.

And yet if he had told them they were good and just being unlucky he would have been slaughtered even more on here. I personally think telling them they were tom kite was the right thing to do. Any modicum of self respect they had would have been injected into their play to prove Butcher wrong.

[500miles]

And yet if he had told them they were good and just being unlucky he would have been slaughtered even more on here. I personally think telling them they were tom kite was the right thing to do. Any modicum of self respect they had would have been injected into their play to prove Butcher wrong.

There hasn't been a lack of effort at Hibs recently though. The team has worked hard. They've created chances, but our finishing has been poor, and our confidence in the final third is gone. The fact we are where we are suggests that getting stuck into them was the WRONG thing to do, and Butcher made a mistake.

Now, if we manage to finish the job on Sunday, I believe Butcher should get a second chance. He done well with Motherwell in difficult conditions. He done well at Inverness on a shoestring budget. His record in Scotland is rather good. If he struggles to get the best out of other people players, but can deliver improvement with his own players, then I believe getting rid of him would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Get this season out the way, grab the oppertunity of a fresh start, and get on with things. The support need to stop holding grudges against the management.

[Captain Trips]

I keep hearing this stuff about ICT being a Case Study for assessing the perfomance of a good football manager against when in fact what we have seen this year is some of the worst football that we have EVER seen at ER in living memory of fans still regularly attending matches! :confused:

I'm tired saying this but any DECENT manager inheriting a team inevitably takes time to replaced duds in his team so has to set about making what team members he has do the job he wants done as well as it can possibly be done. Most team members listen to new direction and encouragement etc and the team improves its performance in line with the new manager who is responsible for their individual and team performances. :agree:

Football is a bit different in that there are only two periods where new players can be brought into any club and TB missed out on that one and brough in three players who have done nothing of note or benefit to the team or club since they arrived at ER! :agree:

TB knew he had that window, knew what he was coming into player pool wise (and if he didn't then that alone is decent grounds for firing him on incompetence IMO) so he must have thought that he could get to the end of the season in a decent league position, maybe even top 6 as Pat F left him in! :agree:

However, he (allegedly) told a number of the players that they were ***** (sorry "surplus to requirements") and should gtf as they would be going at the end of the season anyway! :rolleyes:

From a decent start of 4 wins in the first 8 games (IIRC) we then had one more win until Wednesday and the football has been absolutely terrible!

Who is responsible for that if not TB and MM!? :confused:

Its defo not Pat F IMO! :agree:

Oh aye, check TB's Wiki page and let us all know if there are any more ICT type "success stories" for us to investigate or did he usually get emptied within the first few months of his appointment?! :dunno:

Personally, I'd rather see TB and MM replaced after this week-end but suspect that won't happen. :rolleyes:

I have to decide if I want to risk the price of a ST renewal before 1st June for more football like we have seen since Pat F left! :hmmm:

Sorry was sidetracked to reply to this and it deserves a reply. All I can say is 10/10.

[Lago]

Should have applauded the fans and left it at that in my opinion, giving it the big one was ridiculous, embarrassing.
Why didnt look over the top to me. I certainly wasnt embarrassed and most at the game seemed ok with it.

[Peevemor]

Should have applauded the fans and left it at that in my opinion, giving it the big one was ridiculous, embarrassing.

He's human you know. Can you imagine the relief he must have been feeling (even though we're only half way)?

[FranckSuzy]

Why didnt look over the top to me. I certainly wasnt embarrassed and most at the game seemed ok with it.


He's human you know. Can you imagine the relief he must have been feeling (even though we're only half way)?

:agree: I was happy to see how he felt about the result. At least it showed he cared, unlike some manager's we've had who have just stood with their arms folded :rolleyes:

[southsider]

:agree: I was happy to see how he felt about the result. At least it showed he cared, unlike some manager's we've had who have just stood with their arms folded :rolleyes:
With a cup of tea in their hand. Mr Calderwood THIS WAS YOU !

[Bostonhibby]

Vine and Clancy-both can certainly look back at their time at hibs and say they contributed their fair share to our current plight. Clancy was well looked after, bit of a comparison to his last gig?

Vine had ability perhaps but no application and I am not interested in his view about anything to do with us, been better if he'd kept his mouth shut.