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Onion
18-05-2014, 07:01 AM
Not looking to open the Fenlon v Butcher debate again, but this latest interview with Fenlon covers quite a few issues behind the scenes at Hibs - as he sees it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2631584/Hibs-lost-just-pride-theyve-lost-identity-claims-Pat-Fenlon.html

Carheenlea
18-05-2014, 07:22 AM
Good interview. Pat's a likable guy and it's a pity it wasn't to be for him at Hibs.
Must have some radio in his car if he can tune into Radio Scotland in Dublin!

Hibrandenburg
18-05-2014, 07:36 AM
Not looking to open the Fenlon v Butcher debate again, but this latest interview with Fenlon covers quite a few issues behind the scenes at Hibs - as he sees it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2631584/Hibs-lost-just-pride-theyve-lost-identity-claims-Pat-Fenlon.html

I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.

bingo70
18-05-2014, 07:40 AM
Good interview and interesting insight regarding our youth set up.

Heedersnvolleys
18-05-2014, 07:43 AM
" I'm not sure what the problem is" says it all to me!

johnbc70
18-05-2014, 07:50 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, both for us the fans in that maybe he was not as bad as we all made out and for Pat when he talks about the 2 big losses that defined his time with us.

The table does not lie, the worst thing for me this season is that without the 15 point penalty we would have been bottom and Butcher took the team from mid table medioracy to a team that any other season would be down and still could go down.

Ozyhibby
18-05-2014, 08:00 AM
'There's something wrong at Hibs, I just can't put my finger on it'
Not much f****** good to us then.

Auckland Hibs
18-05-2014, 08:13 AM
" I'm not sure what the problem is" says it all to me!

Pretty strange statement.

Clearly he knows there are issues at ER, but yet he doesn't know what the problem is - WTF?! He was the manager FFS.

IMO he's at least 50% to blame for our current situation - he signed some complete pish.

McKenzie
18-05-2014, 08:17 AM
To be honest I think he has put his finger on it. A lack of football leadership has seen us recruit a number of bang average players. A director of football, who can be solely responsible for the football side, working with the manager would be a start. Then, as RP talked about a "head of youth" to come in and work with all things academy ensures everyone pulls in the same direction.

bigwheel
18-05-2014, 08:18 AM
One of the most interesting perspectives I've read for a while....suggesting that there is a need to rebuild what the club is about from the top down....

J-C
18-05-2014, 08:26 AM
Good interview. Pat's a likable guy and it's a pity it wasn't to be for him at Hibs.
Must have some radio in his car if he can tune into Radio Scotland in Dublin!


DAB digital radio now in most new cars.

I think the two big defeats didn't help Pat at all, he's looked at these games and decided the best way forward was to be more defensive and harder to beat but with that brings boring eye bleeding football, Pat like Terry now struggled to get a balance in the team and his signings made the squad more unbalanced as it lacks width and pace. I spoke to a young footballer from Ireland when Pat had not long taken over, he told me Fenlon's teams were always well organised and hard to break down but always played with pace and width, the latter part was something he didn't achieve and probably cost him and us in the long run.

The youth set up is one I didn't expect to hear about as i thought we had a good one but when you really look into it, where is the real young talent coming from, we've went from the Mowbray team to what we have now, never replacing John and Donald Park with the right people has been a mistake and it's no surprise Bill Hendry has been shown the exit door. Just look at the extremely good young talent in a lot of the teams around us and you can see we seem to be getting left behind, I think we saw last season when 4-5 young lads were signed up for the U20's what Pat was trying to do but it' goes deeper, we're not attracting or maybe not making enough effort into getting these young lads to sign for us.

Ozyhibby
18-05-2014, 08:31 AM
Has Bill Hendry been shown the door?

Jones28
18-05-2014, 08:33 AM
A likeable guy who wouldn't have had us in this position IMO

Pretty Boy
18-05-2014, 08:36 AM
Good interview and lifts the lid on a lot of the rumoured issues.

I've said for some time that the cost cutting in other areas of the club, to try and avoid cutting the football budget, was going to hurt us long term. Seems Fenlon agrees. His point about the club not really knowing who we are is a good one as well. Maybe that's something the fans have to take the lead on, a few reminders to everyone of our proud history.

The only bit I find 'amusing' is his point about Collins coming good if we play someone up top with him. He regularly played him on his own up front!

CallumLaidlaw
18-05-2014, 08:39 AM
Decent interview. He's right to be aggrieved with the media. He was battered by them because he was closed off with them.
And to regards to the club and the deep rooted problems, he's saying exactly what most on here think, so it's difficult to give him a hard time for that.

As said, a nice guy, but not enough ambition.

Wonder what he used to argue with RP about?

NorthNorfolkHFC
18-05-2014, 08:44 AM
It that official that he has been shown the door?

This revamp could be very important if we are to go down where we might rely on our youth.


"That was classic intercourse!"

easty
18-05-2014, 08:45 AM
I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.

Ah, the Billy Brown 'if you've no managed/coached at this level you cannae have an opinion" argument. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

J-C
18-05-2014, 08:46 AM
Has Bill Hendry been shown the door?




Couple of posters here seem to think so.

Hibrandenburg
18-05-2014, 08:54 AM
Ah, the Billy Brown 'if you've no managed/coached at this level you cannae have an opinion" argument. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

No, the old "umpteen managers in 10 years cannae all be wrong" argument. The problem lies elsewhere but let's sack the manager anyway mentality has to stop.

Viva_Palmeiras
18-05-2014, 08:54 AM
" I'm not sure what the problem is" says it all to me!

To be fair to Pat my take is he took these players to 5/6th before he left so post leaving he'll not be party the goings on.

I thought Pat was undertaking a root and branch review tho' can someone confirm that's not a figment of my imagination? 2 root and branch reviews in the space of 3 years is some going if it is the case!!!

The most alarming thing is the loss of identity for me - that must be part of our DNA as a club and if that's missing (it is) then someone needs a rocket up their rear after the 19th May debacle... Not helped by turnover of staff and instability/inability of management / captaincy

AK86
18-05-2014, 09:11 AM
Poor wee pat
none of it was his fault. Nobody liked him and everything was against him. We don't have the right type of ground either
Must be on the short list for the Man U job. I wonder if he will take Kuqi with him.

NAE NOOKIE
18-05-2014, 09:31 AM
Its an interesting interview no doubt, but I'm not sure what it brings to the table to be honest, apart from what he said about Easter Road.

I keep hearing that we have a good squad of players ..... If that's the case I dread to think where we would be with a poor squad of players. The fact that our current management team are not long in the door and the fact that we just cant keep changing manager had saved their ass IMO. The fact that two managers who finished on more points than us with supposedly inferior resources have just been given the bums rush should concentrate minds at ER you would think.

PFs comments on the stadium are telling in my view and he is bang on in his assessment. Reading between the lines it is not difficult to surmise that he was being critical of the lack of atmosphere and its impact on the team. Since the new East was built our home results have been appalling.

In a post on a previous thread I made the point that Hibs failure to address the problem was symptomatic of the malaise around the club. The people in charge have failed to identify this as a problem .... or at least not one worth bothering about .... and that in my view is a major error. Instead of giving reasons why the lower FF cant be made into a Kop type area the should be moving heaven and earth to make it happen. It will give the ( for want of a better word ) ultras a place to call their own and hopefully swell their numbers. I am in no doubt it would vastly improve the atmosphere ....... lets face it having a small knot of enthusiasts stuck up in the gods is not helping .... from the FF on a Saturday they can barely be heard ... or seen for that matter.

Of all the problems around ER these days its the one most easily identified and the one easiest to address .... if the folk in charge could only be made to take their heads out of their backsides and treat it with the seriousness it deserves. No wonder our opponents find a visit to ER such an easy ride.

3 / 4,000 Hibbies were able to create a brilliant atmosphere stuck together in small areas at Bolton, Ayr and Killie ...... Why not 2,000 behind the goals at Easter Road?

MrSmith
18-05-2014, 09:37 AM
" I'm not sure what the problem is" says it all to me!

You know, I don't think he's far off the mark there! Without stating the obvious, can anyone truthfully say they know what's wrong at hibs? I certainly can't put my finger on it!

aunty joyce
18-05-2014, 09:39 AM
I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.

Oh how I wish Hibs.net had a 'LKE' option 👍

Auckland Hibs
18-05-2014, 09:48 AM
You know, I don't think he's far off the mark there! Without stating the obvious, can anyone truthfully say they know what's wrong at hibs? I certainly can't put my finger on it!

If I was, or had been the manager at ER then I'd think it would be pretty obvious what the issues are - with the exception of RP then surely the manager would have more understanding than anyone else?

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-05-2014, 09:54 AM
I read this through, but at the end of it, do I know anything that I didn't know before? No. And as for Pat Fenlon, there is a limit to the amount of times that you can go into print to say that your are keeping a dignified silence. The internal issues at Hibs are such an easy ask for the footie pages, and articles like this just bolster the view that this is what defines us a club. So if Pat gets any more requests to re-hash this, or indeed if any of the previous manager's have an overdue gas bill, I would have much more respect for them if they said " I have moved on, and so should you and so should Hibs".

Stuarty27
18-05-2014, 09:59 AM
I played for Hibs youth team when I was there and Bill Hendry was one of the coaches at the time.

The guy was clueless and a border line jakey. When I heard he got the head of academy job I was totally shocked and is a surprise he has lasted this long.

Diclonius
18-05-2014, 10:06 AM
Poor wee pat
none of it was his fault. Nobody liked him and everything was against him. We don't have the right type of ground either
Must be on the short list for the Man U job. I wonder if he will take Kuqi with him.

I wasn't a fan of Pat but he didn't say that. He admitted he had made mistakes.

500miles
18-05-2014, 10:06 AM
I played for Hibs youth team when I was there and Bill Hendry was one of the coaches at the time.

The guy was clueless and a border line jakey. When I heard he got the head of academy job I was totally shocked and is a surprise he has lasted this long.

Hendry is never spoken well of when it comes to the ex youth players I know. The example I got was that he kept on David Crawford because he was a "nice boy" and chucked Scougall because he wasn't prepared to give it the same act. Nothing to do with the latter being "too small".

147lothian
18-05-2014, 10:13 AM
If I was, or had been the manager at ER then I'd think it would be pretty obvious what the issues are - with the exception of RP then surely the manager would have more understanding than anyone else?

Interesting to hear that pat had many arguments with RP I wish he would expand on this point to let us know what they were about, but it seems like ex managers never publicly criticize chairmen who have employed them

Billychaotic182
18-05-2014, 10:18 AM
The most worrying part of that for me is his comments on the youth set up. At this point in Scottish football a good youth set up is what can take you further. Just look at Dundee United. I know they lost yesterday but I'd kill for hibs to have that set of youth players. A team like hibs should be good enough to attracted high quality youngsters and the reason we are not is according to Pat is we are not competing for them. Worrying indeed

ManBearPig
18-05-2014, 10:18 AM
I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.

This.

S4uzee
18-05-2014, 10:23 AM
Hendry is never spoken well of when it comes to the ex youth players I know. The example I got was that he kept on David Crawford because he was a "nice boy" and chucked Scougall because he wasn't prepared to give it the same act. Nothing to do with the latter being "too small".

He also planned on releasing James McFadden at Motherwell before he got offered a job at Hibs

500miles
18-05-2014, 10:24 AM
If I was, or had been the manager at ER then I'd think it would be pretty obvious what the issues are - with the exception of RP then surely the manager would have more understanding than anyone else?

You should had your CV in then. :rolleyes:

500miles
18-05-2014, 10:26 AM
The most worrying part of that for me is his comments on the youth set up. At this point in Scottish football a good youth set up is what can take you further. Just look at Dundee United. I know they lost yesterday but I'd kill for hibs to have that set of youth players. A team like hibs should be good enough to attracted high quality youngsters and the reason we are not is according to Pat is we are not competing for them. Worrying indeed

Hearts were really paying over the odds for young players a couple of years ago. Double and triple a standard youth wage.

Billychaotic182
18-05-2014, 10:29 AM
Hearts were really paying over the odds for young players a couple of years ago. Double and triple a standard youth wage.

I guess you are right with hearts but what about United? I remember we were linked to GMS at the same time as united

TowerHibs
18-05-2014, 10:36 AM
I played for Hibs youth team when I was there and Bill Hendry was one of the coaches at the time.

The guy was clueless and a border line jakey. When I heard he got the head of academy job I was totally shocked and is a surprise he has lasted this long.

I was involved with hibs when I was in my teens and Bill Henry was there. We went to milk cup however our main coach was malky Thompson and John park. Bill was more or the secretary/organiser.

I was surprised when I found out he was in charge of the academy as he was more John parks goffer if you like. However he is a likeable guy, brainy guy. (Sure he read 2/3 books a day) and is a former school teacher. Boarder line jakey is a bit strong.

pogo
18-05-2014, 10:55 AM
Small bit of artistic license from either Pat, or the Daily Mail here!
He wasn't working for RTE last Saturday, he was in fact working for Setanta, on the Setanta Cup final at a rain drenched Tallaght Stadium (Same match that Richie Rowell was playing in, he actually looked pretty decent in midfield).
He was in the studio on site along with Brian Kerr(ex-Ireland manager), and was doing rehearsals from around 2 pm, not sure exactly what time he arrived at, as I was working on the pitch, but he was on camera getting Mic'ed up well before then. Luckily I had been put with the reporter, doing pre-match interviews, and not given the studio sound, as I'm not too sure how I would have been around Pat!

As for the Radio Scotland link, that is not believeable either, as yes, there is fairly limited DAB radio around Ireland, but BBC stations are not included in this. Even listening on-line is restricted for SPFL matches, and I had to use the Central FM app on my phone to get any info.

Apart from that, everything else he says in the interview sounds ok!

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 10:56 AM
"Maybe i picked the wrong team on both occasions. Maybe i should have went more defensive.

That was his thoughts on that cup final and the Malmo game, was he going to do a Potter and go 4-6-0.

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-05-2014, 11:05 AM
I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.

Football fans post their opinions in a football fans forum, what a shocker!

500miles
18-05-2014, 11:15 AM
I guess you are right with hearts but what about United? I remember we were linked to GMS at the same time as united

GMS wasn't signed as a youth player, he was signed as a first team player. I heard Calderwood didn't see him as a first team regular, but a youth player. Dundee United wanted him in the first team straight away.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:29 AM
I'm sure one of our gurus will be along to tell us that Pat's talking pish again. After all, what's a clueless plum like Fenlon know about football compared to someone who's actively participated from the stands all their life.


Correct, Pat talking pish, seems to be taking the blame for two defeats but the rest was everybody else's fault including the stand, :faf: the timing of his interview is a strange one to say the least as well.

The press didn't like him he couldn't settle in Edinburgh, now that is a f***ing laugh, he seemed pretty settled as he frequented boozers up Morningside way with his buddie Liam O'brien.

Why does he not say why Scott Lyndsay left that heaped extra work on to the chairman, what were the arguement's about with Petrie, why say that if he isn't going to say what they were about.

Before he arrived at Hibs there was rumours going about that he was a bit of a back stabber, seems he hasn't changed as he seems to be doing a fair bit of that in that interview, infact just ask LOB. :wink:

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:35 AM
Pretty strange statement.

Clearly he knows there are issues at ER, but yet he doesn't know what the problem is - WTF?! He was the manager FFS.

IMO he's at least 50% to blame for our current situation - he signed some complete pish.

:agree: with most of that apart from the 50% :wink:


Maybe if he spent more time here through the week rather than bolting back home at every chance he might have found out what was wrong at Hibs.

The_Horde
18-05-2014, 11:35 AM
Shut up Pat. "Collins is good he needs a partner" who Rowan Vine?

Ryan McGivern got called up for NI. So? That's more fool them the boys gash.

Michael Nelson is a good defender? Please.

Your "good" defence are lost without Hanlon. You also left us without a decent, fit right back.

Your midfield had (and still has) no invention and it didn't look like we'd ever score a goal, particularly in the two derbies.

I agree that the stand was the absolute wrong option at the time. We could've used a bit of the money to ensure the old east was secure or built a smaller one tier stand to replace it.

You used to feel involved at the football but since that stand was built I feel like a customer, like I'm at the cinema or something. The only thing we can do to repair that now is to fix the team on the park, something that's been 7 yeas overdue.

Nando™
18-05-2014, 11:39 AM
;4015330']Shut up Pat. "Collins is good he needs a partner" who Rowan Vine?

Ryan McGivern got called up for NI. So? That's more fool them the boys gash.

Michael Nelson is a good defender? Please.

Your "good" defence are lost without Hanlon. You also left us without a decent, fit right back.

Your midfield had (and still has) no invention and it didn't look like we'd ever score a goal, particularly in the two derbies.

I agree that the stand was the absolute wrong option at the time. We could've used a bit of the money to ensure the old east was secure or built a smaller one tier stand to replace it.

You used to feel involved at the football but since that stand was built I feel like a customer, like I'm at the cinema or something. The only thing we can do to repair that now is to fix the team on the park, something that's been 7 yeas overdue.

I'd say the stand was the right option, it's the training centre I wouldn't have built at that time.

AK86
18-05-2014, 11:40 AM
I wasn't a fan of Pat but he didn't say that. He admitted he had made mistakes.
All he admits is that maybe he was a bit too attacking :rolleyes:
He appears to want credit for the signings of Jones and Nelson. He's a better comedian that fitba manager that's for sure.

So what exactly did you do as manager of Hibernian FC Pat?
Two years you had to change things, what improvements did you make? Diddly squat is the answer.

He bumbled about out his depth, absolutely clueless how to set up a team, train a squad , spot a player or progress the ones we had.
He is a blot on our history, that won't ever go away but I wish he would.

david wotherspoon had a good game yesterday , didn't he. It would be nice if we had attacking midfielders prepared to take on players and make runs into the box. :wink:

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:40 AM
DAB digital radio now in most new cars.

I think the two big defeats didn't help Pat at all, he's looked at these games and decided the best way forward was to be more defensive and harder to beat but with that brings boring eye bleeding football, Pat like Terry now struggled to get a balance in the team and his signings made the squad more unbalanced as it lacks width and pace. I spoke to a young footballer from Ireland when Pat had not long taken over, he told me Fenlon's teams were always well organised and hard to break down but always played with pace and width, the latter part was something he didn't achieve and probably cost him and us in the long run.

The youth set up is one I didn't expect to hear about as i thought we had a good one but when you really look into it, where is the real young talent coming from, we've went from the Mowbray team to what we have now, never replacing John and Donald Park with the right people has been a mistake and it's no surprise Bill Hendry has been shown the exit door. Just look at the extremely good young talent in a lot of the teams around us and you can see we seem to be getting left behind, I think we saw last season when 4-5 young lads were signed up for the U20's what Pat was trying to do but it' goes deeper, we're not attracting or maybe not making enough effort into getting these young lads to sign for us.


Just another poor manager that Petrie has brought to the club, Fenlon sounds bitter that Butcher isn't getting a hard time from the press.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:41 AM
A likeable guy who wouldn't have had us in this position IMO

Did you meet him.?

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:43 AM
Good interview and lifts the lid on a lot of the rumoured issues.

I've said for some time that the cost cutting in other areas of the club, to try and avoid cutting the football budget, was going to hurt us long term. Seems Fenlon agrees. His point about the club not really knowing who we are is a good one as well. Maybe that's something the fans have to take the lead on, a few reminders to everyone of our proud history.

The only bit I find 'amusing' is his point about Collins coming good if we play someone up top with him. He regularly played him on his own up front!

That he blighted.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:44 AM
Ah, the Billy Brown 'if you've no managed/coached at this level you cannae have an opinion" argument. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

Get your badges oot. :greengrin

Keith_M
18-05-2014, 11:47 AM
Maybe the thing missing at Easter Road is the desire from the top to be a successful football club, not just successful at counting the pennies.

Really great clubs have that winning desire permeating from top to bottom. At Hibs, the overriding feeling I get is it's enough to continue just to exist.

We need a change of focus, away from the Petrie era.

Michael
18-05-2014, 11:48 AM
All he admits is that maybe he was a bit too attacking :rolleyes:
He appears to want credit for the signings of Jones and Nelson. He's a better comedian that fitba manager that's for sure.

So what exactly did you do as manager of Hibernian FC Pat?
Two years you had to change things, what improvements did you make? Diddly squat is the answer.

He bumbled about out his depth, absolutely clueless how to set up a team, train a squad , spot a player or progress the ones we had.
He is a blot on our history, that won't ever go away but I wish he would.

david wotherspoon had a good game yesterday , didn't he. It would be nice if we had attacking midfielders prepared to take on players and make runs into the box. :wink:

Does Griffiths not count anymore?

The_Horde
18-05-2014, 11:48 AM
I'd say the stand was the right option, it's the training centre I wouldn't have built at that time.

We needed somewhere to train as we couldn't keep going on with training on public pitches. I think the training centre was the correct idea but they've mismanaged it. They got the training centre but didn't have a plan to make it an instant success.

This is why you're now seeing a DOF, head of youth etc in the pipeline.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:49 AM
You know, I don't think he's far off the mark there! Without stating the obvious, can anyone truthfully say they know what's wrong at hibs? I certainly can't put my finger on it!


FFS he was at the club for two seasons, he will know the problem, he just won't say in case it affects his severance pay.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Hendry is never spoken well of when it comes to the ex youth players I know. The example I got was that he kept on David Crawford because he was a "nice boy" and chucked Scougall because he wasn't prepared to give it the same act. Nothing to do with the latter being "too small".

That rings a bell, he was also a Petrie yes man.

Keith_M
18-05-2014, 11:53 AM
;4015330']
I agree that the stand was the absolute wrong option at the time. We could've used a bit of the money to ensure the old east was secure or built a smaller one tier stand to replace it.


I don't agree with that. The circumstances dictated that it was the best time for building a new stand, as builders were desperate for any kind of work and steel prices were at an all time low.

If they'd built a smaller version, maybe 4,000 capacity, I really don't think that would have saved any useful level of money on the construction, considering it only cost 3.5million to build.

AK86
18-05-2014, 11:57 AM
Does Griffiths not count anymore?
Oh behave yourself.

Griffiths was a good player long before Fenlon came to the club.
Fenlons idea of a striker was Kuqi FFS

500miles
18-05-2014, 11:57 AM
Does Griffiths not count anymore?

Or Stevenson. Or Hanlon.

500miles
18-05-2014, 12:00 PM
Oh behave yourself.

Griffiths was a good player long before Fenlon came to the club.
Fenlons idea of a striker was Kuqi FFS

There was plenty opinion on here, after scoring only 8 goals in his first season here, that Griffiths could go back to Wolves and never come back. Griffiths did not have a good first season at Hibs. In fact, it took him a long enough time to get his first goal.

AK86
18-05-2014, 12:05 PM
Or Stevenson. Or Hanlon.
your yanking my chain here.

he persisted in playing Stevenson on the wrong side , watching the guy getting tore apart on a weekly basis. Every club in the land knew it was our major weakness He wrecked the guys confidence.

If you think he progressed LS career then you don't have a clue what your on about
or your Pat Fenlon :wink:

The_Horde
18-05-2014, 12:05 PM
I don't agree with that. The circumstances dictated that it was the best time for building a new stand, as builders were desperate for any kind of work and steel prices were at an all time low.

If they'd built a smaller version, maybe 4,000 capacity, I really don't think that would have saved any useful level of money on the construction, considering it only cost 3.5million to build.

It's up for debate but if we'd spent that money back on the team we could've had more success which would've generated more money and we wouldn't have had to worry about penny pinching on the stand.

Jonny1875
18-05-2014, 12:06 PM
Fair play to Fenlon,hard to dislike but Malmo showed how out of his depth he was.

silverhibee
18-05-2014, 12:06 PM
The most worrying part of that for me is his comments on the youth set up. At this point in Scottish football a good youth set up is what can take you further. Just look at Dundee United. I know they lost yesterday but I'd kill for hibs to have that set of youth players. A team like hibs should be good enough to attracted high quality youngsters and the reason we are not is according to Pat is we are not competing for them. Worrying indeed


Why, we are still producing good young players, the problem being is some struggle to make the step up to the first team, but that is nothing new as that happens to a lot of young lads coming through football at any club they are at, these things happen in football and it must be very hard to take but it has to happen, not every young player makes it in football, that is a fact, how good was it when we produced the Golden Generation from our youth set up and it now seems that the Arabs are producing a good bunch of lads, is it down to good scouting and coaching or maybe luck that a club bring through a number of players at the one time, luck must play a big part in it because i don't see many other clubs where this has happened, it will help if you have the right coaches in as well and in Donald Park we had one of the best who should never have been allowed to leave Hibs.

AK86
18-05-2014, 12:08 PM
There was plenty opinion on here, after scoring only 8 goals in his first season here, that Griffiths could go back to Wolves and never come back. Griffiths did not have a good first season at Hibs. In fact, it took him a long enough time to get his first goal.
Aye ok then , you have convinced me.
Pat Fenlon was genius

Diclonius
18-05-2014, 12:28 PM
Fenlon was a good man-manager and certainly brought our club forward after the pile of **** that C********d left us in. However, he could only take us so far (i.e. 7th) and him leaving was the correct decision to make at the time. Whilst the Butcher appointment was a failure in the short term, keeping on Fenlon would have led us to another 7th placed finish this season. And the season after. And the season after.. Basically, Fenlon leaving Hibs was inevitable and to come at the time it did was unfortunate.

Also, any Hibs manager that can't reverse the losing trend against Hearts shouldn't be our manager long-term. That IMO is the benchmark for success at Hibs. Fenlon's record against Hearts: W2 D3 L5, GF 6 GA 14.

500miles
18-05-2014, 12:48 PM
Fenlon was a good man-manager and certainly brought our club forward after the pile of **** that C********d left us in. However, he could only take us so far (i.e. 7th) and him leaving was the correct decision to make at the time. Whilst the Butcher appointment was a failure in the short term, keeping on Fenlon would have led us to another 7th placed finish this season. And the season after. And the season after.. Basically, Fenlon leaving Hibs was inevitable and to come at the time it did was unfortunate.

Also, any Hibs manager that can't reverse the losing trend against Hearts shouldn't be our manager long-term. That IMO is the benchmark for success at Hibs. Fenlon's record against Hearts: W2 D3 L5, GF 6 GA 14.

He was fifth when he left, and that was with Harris, Cairney and Stanton - his most creative players- injured since the season started.

And Hibs are about Hibs. If seeing Hearts getting beat is so important to you, get a season ticket for the away end at Tynecastle.

J-C
18-05-2014, 12:54 PM
Just another poor manager that Petrie has brought to the club, Fenlon sounds bitter that Butcher isn't getting a hard time from the press.

Very true, Butcher isn't getting as hard a time because they see this as Fenlon's team and not Terry's but tbh Butcher should be getting it really tight from the press because unlike Pat, Terry's had Cairney, Harris etc all able to play for him and he's actually made this team worse if that was at all possible.

superbam
18-05-2014, 01:07 PM
Small bit of artistic license from either Pat, or the Daily Mail here!
He wasn't working for RTE last Saturday, he was in fact working for Setanta, on the Setanta Cup final at a rain drenched Tallaght Stadium (Same match that Richie Rowell was playing in, he actually looked pretty decent in midfield).
He was in the studio on site along with Brian Kerr(ex-Ireland manager), and was doing rehearsals from around 2 pm, not sure exactly what time he arrived at, as I was working on the pitch, but he was on camera getting Mic'ed up well before then. Luckily I had been put with the reporter, doing pre-match interviews, and not given the studio sound, as I'm not too sure how I would have been around Pat!

As for the Radio Scotland link, that is not believeable either, as yes, there is fairly limited DAB radio around Ireland, but BBC stations are not included in this. Even listening on-line is restricted for SPFL matches, and I had to use the Central FM app on my phone to get any info.

Apart from that, everything else he says in the interview sounds ok!

I can confirm it is (only just) possible to pick up a very weak BBC Scotland in North Co Dublin. But I don't believe Fenlon is hibs-daft enough to have the patience for it!

Unseen work
18-05-2014, 01:27 PM
Hendry is never spoken well of when it comes to the ex youth players I know. The example I got was that he kept on David Crawford because he was a "nice boy" and chucked Scougall because he wasn't prepared to give it the same act. Nothing to do with the latter being "too small".

I very much doubt Crawford stayed on because he was a nice guy - if that's the case why did he get a couple of appearances for the first team? Other spl/championship teams wanted him in the summer but he said no so he could focus on his own personal training company he was building

Jdawg
18-05-2014, 01:30 PM
He thinks nelson is a good centre half - fail, his team was carried by griffiths and his goals - fact (see Boyd this season), he signed around 40 Holding midfielders, didn't sign proper full backs or good enough cover for fb position, played players way out of position and created a team devoid of pace, creativity or heart.

Berwickhibby
18-05-2014, 01:35 PM
Couple of posters here seem to think so.

I was chatting with Bill Hendry at the Switzerland v Scotland game in Malta on Thursday and he is still with Hibernian, he was talking about future plans with the academy and was granted permission from the club to shadow the Scotland team. He did not give the impression that he has or was going to be shown the door.

macd123
18-05-2014, 01:37 PM
My problem with pat is that he quit and didn't see it through. He did have a vision though. He started to put in place a proper scouting network, including scottish lower leagues which we have ignored for years. He got good fitness coaches in. He started to improve the academy and recruit from further afield.

Not sure the current dinosaurs managing the club have any interest in these issues.

AK86
18-05-2014, 01:39 PM
He thinks nelson is a good centre half - fail, his team was carried by griffiths and his goals - fact (see Boyd this season), he signed around 40 Holding midfielders, didn't sign proper full backs or good enough cover for fb position, played players way out of position and created a team devoid of pace, creativity or heart.
Word perfect :agree:

I often wonder at what point when he had Kuqi on trial did he think
" he looks a prospect, let's give him a year deal"
everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY , took about 5 mins seeing him play and knew he was useless well past his sell by date lumbering buffoon.

Unseen work
18-05-2014, 01:41 PM
Tbf I don't think u can blame fenlon fully for malmo, as a manager there is only so much you can do. Losing that bad was down to the players IMO, players get it too easy sometimes when it's a heavy defeat, they are the ones performing or not in our case. Malmo were a much fitter stronger sharper team than us who were into there season and we hadn't signed our first choice striker.

The signings he made I never heard any complaints about at the time/ start of the season

Nelson - "strong, leader, what we have been missing for ages"
Mullen - right back with good delivery and comfortable on the ball and good prospect
Tudor jones - key part of a caley team finishing above us
Craig - goal scoring midfielder we had been badly missing, key part of team above us
Vine - striker/winger who scored 10 season before from wing
Collins - energetic scored 18 season before, good hold up play and strong

All these things were being said at the time but due to injuries he never really got to play his exact team, same for butcher

Injuries to
Clancy (first choice right back)
mcpake - captain and first choice centre back
Harris and cairney - to most creative threats and goal threats
Hanlon
Thomson
Tudor jones
Heffernan


All effected how this season has turned out, we have never had a fully fit settled side this season

I'm not defending fenlon at all but find it funny people slating his signings when we all thought it was a very good squad at the start, how things unfolded nobody could of known

Jdawg
18-05-2014, 01:45 PM
Word perfect :agree:

I often wonder at what point when he had Kuqi on trial did he think
" he looks a prospect, let's give him a year deal"
everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY , took about 5 mins seeing him play and knew he was useless well past his sell by date lumbering buffoon.

Correct. I failed to mention his tactics and the line ups for his teams in both cup finals. Both teams lost before walking into the pitch. Played a diamond against hearts who were always going to play 2 wingers and didn't seem to change the formation at any point and against Celtic played Thomson out of position and allowed Scott Brown the freedom of Hampden to dictate play.

Jdawg
18-05-2014, 01:50 PM
Tbf I don't think u can blame fenlon fully for malmo, as a manager there is only so much you can do. Losing that bad was down to the players IMO, players get it too easy sometimes when it's a heavy defeat, they are the ones performing or not in our case. Malmo were a much fitter stronger sharper team than us who were into there season and we hadn't signed our first choice striker.

The signings he made I never heard any complaints about at the time/ start of the season

Nelson - "strong, leader, what we have been missing for ages"
Mullen - right back with good delivery and comfortable on the ball and good prospect
Tudor jones - key part of a caley team finishing above us
Craig - goal scoring midfielder we had been badly missing, key part of team above us
Vine - striker/winger who scored 10 season before from wing
Collins - energetic scored 18 season before, good hold up play and strong

All these things were being said at the time but due to injuries he never really got to play his exact team, same for butcher

Injuries to
Clancy (first choice right back)
mcpake - captain and first choice centre back
Harris and cairney - to most creative threats and goal threats
Hanlon
Thomson
Tudor jones
Heffernan


All effected how this season has turned out, we have never had a fully fit settled side this season

I'm not defending fenlon at all but find it funny people slating his signings when we all thought it was a very good squad at the start, how things unfolded nobody could of known

From al the signings mentioned not a single player with any pace including the 2 strikers. Signed a laboured team with no ability to get in behind and in some games failed to get more than a couple of shots on goal.

Only pace we had was with Harris and unfortunately he got injured.

Godsahibby
18-05-2014, 01:51 PM
Hate to tell a few folk on here this but I was in Dublin on Saturday, Portmarnock to be precise and I managed to listed to the game on the radio just fine. Cant comment on the BBC signal but listed to it on Central FM through digital radio.

portycabbage
18-05-2014, 02:05 PM
I don't agree with that. The circumstances dictated that it was the best time for building a new stand, as builders were desperate for any kind of work and steel prices were at an all time low.

If they'd built a smaller version, maybe 4,000 capacity, I really don't think that would have saved any useful level of money on the construction, considering it only cost 3.5million to build.

I think the key thing wrong with the stand is that performances have been too poor to fill it (along with the west and FF) regularly. Before it was built, we were at or near capacity, as we were getting several thousand more due to Mowbray's team. We also needed to build it because the planning permission was due to lapse, in addition to the construction costs being favourable. I don't think it should be an "either or" thing - IMO we have failed on the pitch due to poor recruitment of players and managers, rather than not having any money after paying for infrastructure. I think if we'd had a decent level of performance at ER over the last 5 or so years, then there wouldn't be issues with the stadium being half full or lacking atmosphere.

easty
18-05-2014, 02:09 PM
Regardless of wether PF is talking complete sense or absolute bollocks, I'd just rather not hear from him.

Did he make us better to watch or harder to beat? It doesn't matter.

There are ups and downs as a Hibby, but I've never felt more down than after those 2 games, and it's those games that will always define his time at Hibs for me.

Jdawg
18-05-2014, 02:11 PM
I think the key thing wrong with the stand is that performances have been too poor to fill it (along with the west and FF) regularly. Before it was built, we were at or near capacity, as we were getting several thousand more due to Mowbray's team. We also needed to build it because the planning permission was due to lapse, in addition to the construction costs being favourable. I don't think it should be an "either or" thing - IMO we have failed on the pitch due to poor recruitment of players and managers, rather than not having any money after paying for infrastructure. I think if we'd had a decent level of performance at ER over the last 5 or so years, then there wouldn't be issues with the stadium being half full or lacking atmosphere.
Agree entirely. We will have made a little money hosting semis and the rams dens final. 20k derby alone is an addition 4k supporters.

Get a team befitting our new stadium and training facilities is the key

BOB MARLEYS DUG
18-05-2014, 02:30 PM
Fair play to Fenlon. Good interview!

Keith_M
18-05-2014, 02:41 PM
;4015359']It's up for debate but if we'd spent that money back on the team we could've had more success which would've generated more money and we wouldn't have had to worry about penny pinching on the stand.


Agreed that it's debatable but, IMO, we would have had to spend at least double if we were to build the same structure now. If you look at the cost of similar (very basic) stands, they have a price of around £1,000-£1,500 per seat. Ours was built for the bargain price of just over £500 per seat.

We would have had to generate millions more, then people would now be slating Petrie for not getting a bargain when he could have :wink:

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-05-2014, 02:48 PM
The direction that Scottish football is heading in means other clubs winnae be falling over each other to spend the amount of dough on their grounds that we have.

Smartie
18-05-2014, 02:52 PM
Like all of our recent managers it is impossible to say what he might have achieved. He walked, of his own free will, early on in the job and deserves both criticism and praise for this. As with our previous managers, his tenure can only be considered to be one of transition and since he didn't hang around to finish the job his time at the club can only be described as a failure.

In his first season he inherited an absolute shambles of a club, patched it up, kept us up and got us to an ill-fated cup final - many of us will wish he hadn't. That season should really be considered to be a success from his starting position.

The next year he consolidated and finished in a higher position and got us to a cup final again. That season should also be considered to be a relative success.

He was horrifically unlucky with injuries at the start of this season - losing Harris and Cairney deprived us of our main attacking threat and left us with a terribly imbalanced squad. He could really have done with Clancy and McPake being fit. It was a poor start to the season and none of us really saw it getting better and none of us really complained when he left. We all believed that we had better players than our results suggested and we all believed that Butcher would improve things.

Hibs rarely give too much away in the press so it's hard to work out who deserves criticism and when. The manager is always the easiest scapegoat and we've jumped on everyone since Mowbray. I like his "hard to put the finger on it" comment. I think many people are looking for a single silver bullet, one factor that is wrong at Hibs and if it is sorted then everything will be fine. IMO it's nowhere near as simple as that. There are multiple failings that we need to pick through in order to kick on.

Fenlon's time at Hibs will always be defined through specific horror results, fairly or otherwise. I'm not convinced he is entirely culpable for these results. Ok, in "that" cup final he was tactically naive. He shouldn't have played a diamond in midfield and O'Connor and Griffiths up front. But I think the problems that O'Connor and Riordan alluded to when they were on the radio said it all about that squad. Squabbling over bonuses in the run up to it was not the way for us to prepare, and I don't know what Fenlon was meant to do about that. The Hearts players knew that significant funds were going to drop into their accounts. Atrocious refereeing decisions at key moments also cost us.

The following season we were overly-reliant on Griffiths. When he was injured in the run-up to the cup final that was us crippled. He had to play him but he wasn't fit and shouldn't have. Thomson shouldn't have been played where he was. Naive? Yes. Horrifically unlucky? Yes.

We were simply not ready for the Malmo game and it was shameful. Vine was a panic buy to stop us going into the game with only Handling and Caldwell after we were missing out on our main targets left, right and centre. The players weren't fit, didn't know how to play together and it was a shambles. Nelson was signed in August in a panic because all our centre-halves were injured or suspended. Pitiful planning.

I'm convinced that this season's squad isn't Pat's squad - it's Petrie's. No self-respecting football manager would have signed so many holding midfielders, failed to address the lack of a right-back and centre-halves, the lack of pace and width. To have wasted our entire budget and left us no room to manoeuvre in January yet been woefully unprepared for the start of the season was criminal. Our squad is a collection of 5th and 6th choice signings, bought in a panic with no thought as to how they would play together and compliment each other. We have snapped up players who had questionable injury records but a pedigree that suggested they were too good to pass us by without any thought as to how they might fit in (Thomson, Heffernan, OTJ). We had panic buys to fill gaps because we had games coming up and nobody else to play there (Nelson and Vine). We have had horribly exposed youngsters (Mullen, Harris). It's been grim.

Pat was a good guy, tried his best and imo made us a tiny bit better. We have totally failed to build on his progress. Pat probably was part of the problem and we should be grateful to him for getting us to 2 cup finals, never getting us relegated, starting to address the youth set-up etc and more than anything for having the self-awareness to walk when he knew he wasn't getting what was required from the players. He should look at the tactical naivety in the big games, the frustrating inability to make changes during games that were slipping away from us and his inability to link up our midfield and forward/forwards if he wants to improve, kick on and be a success elsewhere.

The problems at Easter Road simply do not begin and end with the manager, and haven't for a long time. We have 2 games to prevent this whole debacle from having been an absolute disaster. But we MUST start learning from these mistakes.

macd123
18-05-2014, 03:16 PM
He thinks nelson is a good centre half - fail, his team was carried by griffiths and his goals - fact (see Boyd this season), he signed around 40 Holding midfielders, didn't sign proper full backs or good enough cover for fb position, played players way out of position and created a team devoid of pace, creativity or heart.

I don't buy the lack of creativity argument. We could pick a team including thomson, stanton, zoubir, cairney and harris.

Jdawg
18-05-2014, 03:28 PM
I don't buy the lack of creativity argument. We could pick a team including thomson, stanton, zoubir, cairney and harris.

I wouldn't say Thomson is particularly creative, yes in the sense of linking defence and midfield and setting us on our way but not I the final third where it counts, has Cairney ever been 100% fit since we signed him, Zoubir gets the ball beats a man and tries to beat him again or holds on the ball far too long. Doesn't see to have a footballers brain and flatters to deceive. We have relied far too much on Stanton this season, an excellent prospect but, expectedly at his age, falls in and out of games. Harris hasn't been the same since he came back from injury.

We don't create clear cut chances so we don't have creativity. We hoof it forward from the back 9 times out 10 hoping for a break.

Bobby's Cinema
18-05-2014, 03:29 PM
"Hibs have lost not just their pride, but their identity."

Sorry Pat but in my mind, but a massive part of that is down to YOU.

It is though, hard to argue with what he says about the players as they are now. They have shown previously that they are better than this.

Tyler Durden
18-05-2014, 03:42 PM
I think Fenlon was certainly unlucky with injuries. And if he had stayed then we'd likely be sitting 8 or 9th.

But he doesn't half talk pish. Firstly he talks as if he arrived at Hibs with us marooned in 11th position. Just nonsense to take no responsibility for only avoiding relegation on penultimate game of the season. How many players did he sign that January?

Then his views on the stadium. Maybe if he could field am entertaining team the stadium wouldn't be so empty. But that was never likely with his footballing philosophy - the fact the lesson he learned from 2 cup final defeats was "I could have been more defensive" speaks volumes.

Then he wants credit for going a season undefeated against a terrible Hearts team. We scraped 2 wins against them and in a few of the games we barely tried to attack. To claim this as success shows how out of touch he was with the support. And any credit he deserved there was quickly wiped out by 2 defeats to an even poorer Hearts side this season.

Just because Butcher has made an even bigger mess does not mean Fenlons time should be re-evaluated. The man should shut up - he will never get near a team of our stature again.

pacorosssco
18-05-2014, 03:56 PM
I think Fenlon was certainly unlucky with injuries. And if he had stayed then we'd likely be sitting 8 or 9th.

But he doesn't half talk pish. Firstly he talks as if he arrived at Hibs with us marooned in 11th position. Just nonsense to take no responsibility for only avoiding relegation on penultimate game of the season. How many players did he sign that January?

Then his views on the stadium. Maybe if he could field am entertaining team the stadium wouldn't be so empty. But that was never likely with his footballing philosophy - the fact the lesson he learned from 2 cup final defeats was "I could have been more defensive" speaks volumes.

Then he wants credit for going a season undefeated against a terrible Hearts team. We scraped 2 wins against them and in a few of the games we barely tried to attack. To claim this as success shows how out of touch he was with the support. And any credit he deserved there was quickly wiped out by 2 defeats to an even poorer Hearts side this season.

Just because Butcher has made an even bigger mess does not mean Fenlons time should be re-evaluated. The man should shut up - he will never get near a team of our stature again.

Spot on

blackpoolhibs
18-05-2014, 03:58 PM
I think Fenlon was certainly unlucky with injuries. And if he had stayed then we'd likely be sitting 8 or 9th.

But he doesn't half talk pish. Firstly he talks as if he arrived at Hibs with us marooned in 11th position. Just nonsense to take no responsibility for only avoiding relegation on penultimate game of the season. How many players did he sign that January?

Then his views on the stadium. Maybe if he could field am entertaining team the stadium wouldn't be so empty. But that was never likely with his footballing philosophy - the fact the lesson he learned from 2 cup final defeats was "I could have been more defensive" speaks volumes.

Then he wants credit for going a season undefeated against a terrible Hearts team. We scraped 2 wins against them and in a few of the games we barely tried to attack. To claim this as success shows how out of touch he was with the support. And any credit he deserved there was quickly wiped out by 2 defeats to an even poorer Hearts side this season.

Just because Butcher has made an even bigger mess does not mean Fenlons time should be re-evaluated. The man should shut up - he will never get near a team of our stature again.

:top marks

Islington Hibs
18-05-2014, 04:22 PM
It is irrelevant now but he was a victim of circumstance and a few dreadful results. In the round, while unspectacular, the results were OK, helped by Sparky for sure, but the defence was tight and I think he is right about Williams- think we will miss him. I think Fenlon was slowly getting things right and he clearly cared for the club and I think did understand the issues.

This is an interesting interview that clearly lays some blame of a well meaning Petrie and the youth set up. The atmosphere at ER clearly remains an issue in my view too. Personally think it would have been better if he had stayed. Tin hat.

Jones28
18-05-2014, 04:26 PM
Did you meet him.?

Nope. I based my opinion on what little chance he was given in the media.

H18Y GW
18-05-2014, 04:29 PM
i actually hate him and two cup finals and Leigh Griffiths papered over a ****in joke of a manager.

IWasThere2016
18-05-2014, 04:40 PM
;4015330']Shut up Pat. "Collins is good he needs a partner" who Rowan Vine?

Ryan McGivern got called up for NI. So? That's more fool them the boys gash.

Michael Nelson is a good defender? Please.

Your "good" defence are lost without Hanlon. You also left us without a decent, fit right back.

Your midfield had (and still has) no invention and it didn't look like we'd ever score a goal, particularly in the two derbies.

I agree that the stand was the absolute wrong option at the time. We could've used a bit of the money to ensure the old east was secure or built a smaller one tier stand to replace it.

You used to feel involved at the football but since that stand was built I feel like a customer, like I'm at the cinema or something. The only thing we can do to repair that now is to fix the team on the park, something that's been 7 yeas overdue.

Post of the day.

rcarter1
18-05-2014, 04:43 PM
It is irrelevant now but he was a victim of circumstance and a few dreadful results. In the round, while unspectacular, the results were OK, helped by Sparky for sure, but the defence was tight and I think he is right about Williams- think we will miss him. I think Fenlon was slowly getting things right and he clearly cared for the club and I think did understand the issues.

This is an interesting interview that clearly lays some blame of a well meaning Petrie and the youth set up. The atmosphere at ER clearly remains an issue in my view too. Personally think it would have been better if he had stayed. Tin hat.

This is the intriguing point. Our youth teams do really well and play good football. It seems that since the 'golden generation' we have tended to foster physically slight, albeit talented youngsters, but don't go for the grit and steel required to make the grade. That Fenlon could compare us unfavourably to Juniors is alarming.

Leithenhibby
18-05-2014, 05:08 PM
Poor wee pat
none of it was his fault. Nobody liked him and everything was against him. We don't have the right type of ground either
Must be on the short list for the Man U job. I wonder if he will take Kuqi with him.

Harsh... IMO

Captain Trips
18-05-2014, 05:17 PM
Pat made some bad signings or used the signings wrongly he simply wasn't right to take the club further IMO. It is a great shame that although he appeared far more into the job than Calderwood and was a better manager PF for me will be remembered for 2 results and not much else for me.

I believe he deserved to go and it should have been a lot sooner but as far as this season goes I think had he stayed we would have finished higher not a lot higher but higher none the less that too though would still not have cut it.

AK86
18-05-2014, 05:28 PM
Harsh... IMO
It was harsh for us as supporters to put up with him for so long
If things were so bad throughout the club when he was here why didn't he inform the fans at the time.?why didn't he change things? Why did he sign so many guffies?

J-C
18-05-2014, 05:31 PM
It was harsh for us as supporters to put up with him for so long
If things were so bad throughout the club when he was here why didn't he inform the fans at the time.?why didn't he change things? Why did he sign so many guffies?


He spoke about rows with Petrie, maybe these were down to Petrie not getting the players he wanted and having to deal with 3rd and 4th choices again, there's only so much you can do to change a club but it's very hard to do when you have a chairman like Petrie at the helm.

Captain Trips
18-05-2014, 05:37 PM
He spoke about rows with Petrie, maybe these were down to Petrie not getting the players he wanted and having to deal with 3rd and 4th choices again, there's only so much you can do to change a club but it's very hard to do when you have a chairman like Petrie at the helm.

A manager shouldnt be signing players unless he thinks they will improve us surely? Even if 3rd or 4th choice he still signed them so he must have thought fit for purpose and better than what we had. Unfortuantly most were not.

J-C
18-05-2014, 05:40 PM
A manager shouldnt be signing players unless he thinks they will improve us surely? Even if 3rd or 4th choice he still signed them so he must have thought fit for purpose and better than what we had. Unfortuantly most were not.

No argument from about the signings but look at the dross we've had this past 5-6 years, does make you think.

After saying that, many on here thought OTJ, Vine etc were decent signings and look how they turned out, same goes for McGivern.

AK86
18-05-2014, 05:41 PM
He spoke about rows with Petrie, maybe these were down to Petrie not getting the players he wanted and having to deal with 3rd and 4th choices again, there's only so much you can do to change a club but it's very hard to do when you have a chairman like Petrie at the helm.
But when he resigned , he was bumping his gums about how great the board were to work with.
So he is a liar as well as an incompetent

Captain Trips
18-05-2014, 05:42 PM
No argument from about the signings but look at the dross we've had this past 5-6 years, does make you think

It does make you think as some players brought in were no better or worse than what was there already.

J-C
18-05-2014, 05:43 PM
But when he resigned , he was bumping his gums about how great the board were to work with.
So he is a liar as well as an incompetent


Called being diplomatic, things have moved on now and he maybe feels it's time to spill some beans.

emerald green
18-05-2014, 05:48 PM
It's time for Pat Fenlon to shut it.

weecounty hibby
18-05-2014, 05:49 PM
I liked PF and still do. I think he cares for the club. It's not his fault that he was appointed and that he wasn't up to the job. There are not many around at the level of PF who wouldn't accept the job as Hibernian manager if they were offered it. Also I guess he was asked to conduct an interview and didn't chase down the reporter

macd123
18-05-2014, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't say Thomson is particularly creative, yes in the sense of linking defence and midfield and setting us on our way but not I the final third where it counts, has Cairney ever been 100% fit since we signed him, Zoubir gets the ball beats a man and tries to beat him again or holds on the ball far too long. Doesn't see to have a footballers brain and flatters to deceive. We have relied far too much on Stanton this season, an excellent prospect but, expectedly at his age, falls in and out of games. Harris hasn't been the same since he came back from injury.

We don't create clear cut chances so we don't have creativity. We hoof it forward from the back 9 times out 10 hoping for a break.

I agree but that's a management issue. Cairney has been fully fit since butcher arrived. We need goals so play the guy behind the striker ffs. Instead they have completely mismanaged stanton and put all the burden on him. Likewise harris was starting games when he needed reintroduced slowly.

Zoubir can do things nobody else can so should be used when we are chasing the game.

AK86
18-05-2014, 06:01 PM
Called being diplomatic, things have moved on now and he maybe feels it's time to spill some beans.
No it's not, it's called being a spineless liar.

MWHIBBIES
18-05-2014, 06:12 PM
Pretty strange statement.

Clearly he knows there are issues at ER, but yet he doesn't know what the problem is - WTF?! He was the manager FFS.

IMO he's at least 50% to blame for our current situation - he signed some complete pish.Aye, thats right, half of the last 5 years of rubbish is Fenlons fault.

J-C
18-05-2014, 06:13 PM
No it's not, it's called being a spineless liar.

:rolleyes:

AK86
18-05-2014, 06:29 PM
:rolleyes:

Whats that meant to mean.

J-C
18-05-2014, 06:37 PM
Whats that meant to mean.

It means I think you comment is a bit harsh and OTT, I thought Fenlon's time had come probably too late but he was never going to say too many nasty things straight away, it's not in his nature, he obviously feels enough time has passed for him to say certain things.

AK86
18-05-2014, 06:45 PM
It means I think you comment is a bit harsh and OTT, I thought Fenlon's time had come probably too late but he was never going to say too many nasty things straight away, it's not in his nature, he obviously feels enough time has passed for him to say certain things.
I disagree. He didn't have to say anything
well, sorry might have been appropriate .

Northernhibee
18-05-2014, 06:50 PM
But when he resigned , he was bumping his gums about how great the board were to work with.
So he is a liar as well as an incompetent

Did Pat **** in your soup or something?

AK86
18-05-2014, 07:04 PM
Did Pat **** in your soup or something?
Worse than that.
he f####d my club. Signed Kuqi and Maybury and any passing Irishman he fancied.
he then left saying Hibs have been great with him, then changes his tune and says a lot without actually telling us anything.
the man is a complete bellend

Smartie
18-05-2014, 07:14 PM
Worse than that.
he f####d my club. Signed Kuqi and Maybury and any passing Irishman he fancied.
he then left saying Hibs have been great with him, then changes his tune and says a lot without actually telling us anything.
the man is a complete bellend

Really harsh IMO.

He inherited a shambles created by successive failed managers and was at worst guilty of failing to turn it around.

He did his best and feels the need to defend his corner under increasing scrutiny of our pitifully poor season.

His Irish signings were decent imo - Doyle, pre-injury Deegan etc.

Maybury has imo been our best player in our last 3-4 games.

Maybe you are just getting nostalgic for Calderwood, Stephens, Agogo, Thornhill etc?

No way did Fenlon f*** our club. He may not have improved it much but he didn't f*** it.

Arch Stanton
18-05-2014, 07:14 PM
'There's something wrong at Hibs, I just can't put my finger on it'
Not much f****** good to us then.

Oh no?

Before the club can start solving a problem it has to recognise that there is a problem.

The fans and the board are of the same mindset. Clubs that spend less than us do better than us. Our answer: spend more!

Managers who are doing well with smaller clubs come here and talk about Hibs being a big club. Too nuch to think that Rod woulod keep them right on that score. Our new CEO thinks she is in charge of a BIG club too.

Big surprise to everyone that Hearts outperformed us with a budget team - why?

So, what has become of T. Mowbrays tenure - did we learn nothing from that?

Butcher seems intelligent enough and maybe he will figure it out - unless he is sacked first of course.

Gustavo Fring
18-05-2014, 07:31 PM
pat fenlon thought james collins was a striker

he knows NOTHING about football

jacomo
18-05-2014, 07:49 PM
This thread almost developed into a decent discussion but has been swamped by smart *** comments and hysterics. Hibs.net is an ugly place at the moment.

KWJ
18-05-2014, 07:52 PM
There seems to be a lot of animosity towards Pat on here which is unfair I reckon. The man gave it his all and sort of took us in the right direction, just not in the way we'd hoped and with some pretty serious blips along the way.

He seems passionate about the club and I really love that. He's lived Hibs and it's stuck to him despite it coming during one of our most inhospitable spells.

Thanks Pat, keep supporting. GGTTH.

matty_f
18-05-2014, 07:55 PM
pat fenlon thought james collins was a striker

he knows NOTHING about football

The same James Collins that outscored Adam "wish we'd signed him in January" Rooney at their last club? :wink:

Fwiw, Collins hasn't cut it at Hibs but that's not to say that you could have seen it coming based on his form with his old club.

gillythehibby
18-05-2014, 08:11 PM
pat fenlon thought james collins was a striker

he knows NOTHING about football

18 goals for Swindon out-scoring the new scoring saviour of Aberdeen would prove you wrong. I wish some on here would think before spouting pish. Looking at the bigger picture, there's probably not too many present players worthy of a Hibs jersey right now, but that's the bracket we are working with. That's what pat and others have had to work with. 2k a week players gets you mediocre performances. The fact is you get what you pay for. I don't think Pat was quite good enough to be a Hibernian manager, but that could be said to most in the last 20 years. I've no doubt Pat lost out on other better players that would have helped and I blame the board for that. It's easy to identify good players when you can offer 6-7 grand a week.

For him part, I think He set up the teams wrong for some matches. Forget Malmo. Who gives a fk about that, but he wrongly put too much faith in the cup final team that got horsed by Hertz. It's easy to pin the blame on a scapegoat as it makes us feel better when we don't have the answers. Whilst we are on about blame, 1 win in 19 is our present manager's record. Never mind blaming PF, maybe we should look closer to home for our current plight !!

CallumLaidlaw
18-05-2014, 08:17 PM
The same James Collins that outscored Adam "wish we'd signed him in January" Rooney at their last club? :wink:

Fwiw, Collins hasn't cut it at Hibs but that's not to say that you could have seen it coming based on his form with his old club.

As I've said before, look at Collins' and Billy McKays careers to date after they'd spent 1 season in Scotland. Very similar. Not saying that will happen with Collins. But the only difference is, McKay was able to go about his business without the pressure and expectancy that Collins has due to the price paid for him.

GreenCastle
18-05-2014, 08:35 PM
So Bill Hendry is leaving Hibs and Eddie May is coming in ?

Tyler Durden
18-05-2014, 08:35 PM
18 goals for Swindon out-scoring the new scoring saviour of Aberdeen would prove you wrong. I wish some on here would think before spouting pish. Looking at the bigger picture, there's probably not too many present players worthy of a Hibs jersey right now, but that's the bracket we are working with. That's what pat and others have had to work with. 2k a week players gets you mediocre performances. The fact is you get what you pay for. I don't think Pat was quite good enough to be a Hibernian manager, but that could be said to most in the last 20 years. I've no doubt Pat lost out on other better players that would have helped and I blame the board for that. It's easy to identify good players when you can offer 6-7 grand a week.

For him part, I think He set up the teams wrong for some matches. Forget Malmo. Who gives a fk about that, but he wrongly put too much faith in the cup final team that got horsed by Hertz. It's easy to pin the blame on a scapegoat as it makes us feel better when we don't have the answers. Whilst we are on about blame, 1 win in 19 is our present manager's record. Never mind blaming PF, maybe we should look closer to home for our current plight !!

Only 2 teams in Scotland are paying players 6/7 grand per week. 9 SPL teams finished above us paying nowhere near that. 4 or 5 had plenty of performances which were better than mediocre.

Forget Malmo? We got beat 7-0 at home!

Tyler Durden
18-05-2014, 08:39 PM
As I've said before, look at Collins' and Billy McKays careers to date after they'd spent 1 season in Scotland. Very similar. Not saying that will happen with Collins. But the only difference is, McKay was able to go about his business without the pressure and expectancy that Collins has due to the price paid for him.

Your first sentence doesn't make sense. Are you just saying both had comparably poor first seasons? I think that would be generous to Collins to be honest.

Auckland Hibs
18-05-2014, 08:50 PM
You should had your CV in then. :rolleyes:

Will do.

Can I send it to you for a spell check first? :rolleyes:

CallumLaidlaw
18-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Your first sentence doesn't make sense. Are you just saying both had comparably poor first seasons? I think that would be generous to Collins to be honest.

In 2 seasons at league 1 Northampton, McKay scored 16 goals in 84 games (a goal every 5.25 games).
At the age of 22 he moved to thistle and scored 3 goals in 24 (a goal every 8 games) in his first season.

In 2 seasons in league one for Shrewsbury and Swindon, Collins scored 34 in 98 (a goal every 2.88 games)
At the age of 22 he signed for Hibs and has scored 6 goals in 40 games ( a goal every 6.66 games)

Tyler Durden
18-05-2014, 09:16 PM
In 2 seasons at league 1 Northampton, McKay scored 16 goals in 84 games (a goal every 5.25 games).
At the age of 22 he moved to thistle and scored 3 goals in 24 (a goal every 8 games) in his first season.

In 2 seasons in league one for Shrewsbury and Swindon, Collins scored 34 in 98 (a goal every 2.88 games)
At the age of 22 he signed for Hibs and has scored 6 goals in 40 games ( a goal every 6.66 games)

It was the "after 1 season in Scotland" part I wasn't sure of but interesting stats.

Unfortunately for Collins, regardless of price tag he was always going to be under scrutiny as our apparent first choice striker. He's been beyond disappointing.

I think he'll definitely be on his way out, whatever league we are in. Probably with us taking a massive hit.

Fergus52
18-05-2014, 09:17 PM
In 2 seasons at league 1 Northampton, McKay scored 16 goals in 84 games (a goal every 5.25 games).
At the age of 22 he moved to thistle and scored 3 goals in 24 (a goal every 8 games) in his first season.

In 2 seasons in league one for Shrewsbury and Swindon, Collins scored 34 in 98 (a goal every 2.88 games)
At the age of 22 he signed for Hibs and has scored 6 goals in 40 games ( a goal every 6.66 games)

Those stats are pretty interesting.

I still think Collins could come good with a decent team around him playing to his strengths.

MWHIBBIES
18-05-2014, 09:22 PM
Worse than that.
he f####d my club. Signed Kuqi and Maybury and any passing Irishman he fancied.
he then left saying Hibs have been great with him, then changes his tune and says a lot without actually telling us anything.
the man is a complete bellendMaybury has been solid for us since signing. Pathetic post.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
18-05-2014, 09:24 PM
So Bill Hendry is leaving Hibs and Eddie May is coming in ?

:agree:

AK86
18-05-2014, 09:47 PM
Maybury has been solid for us since signing. Pathetic post.
He's been a decent pro for us. That is all

a player deemed not good enough for st Johnstone 2YEARS AGO. Is still getting a game at Hibernian and some people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.
Now that's pathetic .

SMAXXA
18-05-2014, 09:57 PM
Some of the cheap digs on this thread isn't unexpected but still pathetic IMO. He's the only manager in recent years that's done the decent thing and walked because he felt he couldn't take us to where all us fans want to and expect to be. That against some of the arrogant or useless ****s ripping the heart out our club....I have no problem with him and what he's saying. a lot of it is factually correct and shows the morals of the guy praising us and backing butcher. Would some folk on here prefer him to come out and slate hibs so they can have a reason to slate the guy.....to be fair I'm sure some folk on here probably would.

Totally agree with the stadium comment, I've said for long enough we need to cordon off the top rows of the stands and push fans neared the pitch, we are in a big stadium that's half full, no atmosphere and no wonder away fans and teams love coming here. Ffs we can't even get the basics right and put the small band of away fans int he top tear as far away from the pitch as possible ala Motherwell etc.

Jones28
18-05-2014, 09:59 PM
Worse than that.
he f####d my club. Signed Kuqi and Maybury and any passing Irishman he fancied.
he then left saying Hibs have been great with him, then changes his tune and says a lot without actually telling us anything.
the man is a complete bellend

If you opened your eyes you would realise out club was pretty ****ed long before Pat Fenlon, Colin Calderwood is the main culprit in all this.

Jones28
18-05-2014, 10:01 PM
In 2 seasons at league 1 Northampton, McKay scored 16 goals in 84 games (a goal every 5.25 games).
At the age of 22 he moved to thistle and scored 3 goals in 24 (a goal every 8 games) in his first season.

In 2 seasons in league one for Shrewsbury and Swindon, Collins scored 34 in 98 (a goal every 2.88 games)
At the age of 22 he signed for Hibs and has scored 6 goals in 40 games ( a goal every 6.66 games)

A lovely big nail into the anti Collins balloon, great stats

Captain Trips
18-05-2014, 10:05 PM
A lovely big nail into the anti Collins balloon, great stats

The only stats of any interest are those of the player playing for Hibs and job done here. Collins as a forward has thus far failed.

AK86
18-05-2014, 10:06 PM
If you opened your eyes you would realise out club was pretty ****ed long before Pat Fenlon, Colin Calderwood is the main culprit in all this.
CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassment

SMAXXA
18-05-2014, 10:14 PM
CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassment

Of course he improved things to say otherwise Is just pure wrong

MWHIBBIES
18-05-2014, 10:15 PM
He's been a decent pro for us. That is all

a player deemed not good enough for st Johnstone 2YEARS AGO. Is still getting a game at Hibernian and some people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.
Now that's pathetic .Nope. He has been a solid full back who defends and does his job well on either side. Your posts are pathetic.

MWHIBBIES
18-05-2014, 10:16 PM
CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassmentYou are just being stupid and basically lying now. Please stop, its absolutely embarrassing to read.

AK86
18-05-2014, 10:20 PM
You are just being stupid and basically lying now. Please stop, its absolutely embarrassing to read.
Show me where I'm lying?

its not pathetic, the truth hurts, you were duped by an imposter and you feel silly.
but still you can't see it. That's pathetic

Viva_Palmeiras
18-05-2014, 10:29 PM
A lovely big nail into the anti Collins balloon, great stats

And he's scored more than Kuqi, Agogo, Soares, Vaz Te (older and premiership material) combined - we know how to pick 'em!

Viva_Palmeiras
18-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Show me where I'm lying?

its not pathetic, the truth hurts, you were duped by an imposter and you feel silly.
but still you can't see it. That's pathetic

Gentlemen time please! ;)

Jones28
18-05-2014, 10:37 PM
CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassment

Fenlon wouldn't have had us in the mess we are in now. They may be a crap team, but least under fenlon they were getting some sort of results to keep us fighting for a place in the top 6.

FranckSuzy
18-05-2014, 11:25 PM
Show me where I'm lying?

its not pathetic, the truth hurts, you were duped by an imposter and you feel silly.
but still you can't see it. That's pathetic

Are you sure you're a Hibby? :confused: If you are, it should really be 'we', naw?

macd123
18-05-2014, 11:33 PM
It's been a long, long time since any manager at hibs made any progress. Pat was the first since mowbray to begin to improve things. He signed the first decent goalkeeper in over a decade. He made us threaten at set pieces for the first time i can remember. He found someone for the matty jack role we have been on about for ages.

It's hard to remember now but some of the guys he signed are proven at this level. Nelson can actually defend. But butcher and malpas encouraging him to pass the ball to the strikers is just madness. He was doing ok for us when he was playing simple 5 yard passes. Up until December craig was having a good season too. These guys will be written off and moved on and replacements brought in. Just seems a bit pointless.

Michael
18-05-2014, 11:33 PM
James Collins isn't that bad. At least he looks a bit like a footballer in that he can sort of keep his balance and look busy.

MWHIBBIES
19-05-2014, 01:16 AM
Show me where I'm lying?

its not pathetic, the truth hurts, you were duped by an imposter and you feel silly.
but still you can't see it. That's patheticHighlighted where you are lying.

Curly1875
19-05-2014, 01:54 AM
So what exactly did you do as manager of Hibernian FC Pat?
Two years you had to change things, what improvements did you make? Diddly squat is the answer.

What a load of crap. Do you seriously think Fenlon wasn't an improvement on Calderwood? When he came in his first job was to keep us up due to the mess CC had left, he did that and took us to a final (albeit not the best one). In his next season he improves our league standing further, again getting to another final. When he left we were in a fight for top six, being anywhere near a relegation fight was unthinkable and yet you think none of this was an improvement?

HoboHarry
19-05-2014, 01:57 AM
What a load of crap. Do you seriously think Fenlon wasn't an improvement on Calderwood? When he came in his first job was to keep us up due to the mess CC had left, he did that and took us to a final (albeit not the best one). In his next season he improves our league standing further, again getting to another final. When he left we were in a fight for top six, being anywhere near a relegation fight was unthinkable and yet you think none of this was an improvement?
Don't engage him. He comes across as around 14 years of age to me.....

Tyler Durden
19-05-2014, 06:13 AM
A lovely big nail into the anti Collins balloon, great stats

Eh no. The stats show both players had poor first seasons in Scotland. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Collins will come good just because McKay did.

Leithenhibby
19-05-2014, 08:06 AM
CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassment

Like it or not, He did... :agree:


Are you sure you're a Hibby? :confused: If you are, it should really be 'we', naw?

Crossed my mind also. :wink:

HUTCHYHIBBY
19-05-2014, 08:13 AM
When he came in his first job was to keep us up due to the mess CC had left

Has this become a .net fact yet?

blackpoolhibs
19-05-2014, 08:28 AM
He's been a decent pro for us. That is all

a player deemed not good enough for st Johnstone 2YEARS AGO. Is still getting a game at Hibernian and some people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.
Now that's pathetic .

Hibby or not, you are 100% right. And this goes right through the team, we have a large amount of supporters who seem quite happy to keep bigging up crap players like Maybury who will never take us forward.

Yes he's steady and does most of the basics right, but does nothing offensively and is quite happy to do the bare minimum because anything else will show him up to be severely lacking.

We have a team full of this

yekimevol
19-05-2014, 08:32 AM
Theres not much i think you can argue with in this interview to be honest, he left the team in a better state than he found it but could not advance any further and the fans wanted him to leave so he did. Its not his fault that the manager brought in to further advance the team has taken it back three steps and not forward. I mean come on is Ferguson the reason that Moyes failed at united.

MWHIBBIES
19-05-2014, 09:07 AM
Hibby or not, you are 100% right. And this goes right through the team, we have a large amount of supporters who seem quite happy to keep bigging up crap players like Maybury who will never take us forward.

Yes he's steady and does most of the basics right, but does nothing offensively and is quite happy to do the bare minimum because anything else will show him up to be severely lacking.

We have a team full of thisMaybury isn't a crap player, that is why people like him. Crap players get dogs abuse, Maybury isn't one of them.

The last line is just stupid, the only thing Maybury lacks defensively is pace and maybe size. He defends 1vs1 really well and I'd be fine with both of our fullbacks being able to defend really well before thinking about charging up the pitch. If Maybury hadn't played for Hearts and was 10 years younger people would be more than happy with him like they were with Forster when he was doing okay at right back. Picking out our fullbacks for doing nothing offensively probably shows just how bad we are offensively, we don't not score goals because of our fullbacks, we don't score goals because our fowards are poor and our midfield aren't even close to being creative enough.

Stevie Reid
19-05-2014, 11:40 AM
Obviously still has deep feelings for the club, which doesn't surprise me, you could always see how much the job meant to him.

I defended him for as long as I could on here, though I'm well aware that my threshold was reached later than quite a few others.

Unfortunately his time was up when he went, though he left with my best wishes and I said at the time that I would always be grateful for what he did for us overall - and, FWIW, I wish he were in charge of us for these two games.

At this point in time I find it impossible to imagine ever being grateful to Butcher for anything.

blackpoolhibs
19-05-2014, 11:43 AM
Maybury isn't a crap player, that is why people like him. Crap players get dogs abuse, Maybury isn't one of them.

The last line is just stupid, the only thing Maybury lacks defensively is pace and maybe size. He defends 1vs1 really well and I'd be fine with both of our fullbacks being able to defend really well before thinking about charging up the pitch. If Maybury hadn't played for Hearts and was 10 years younger people would be more than happy with him like they were with Forster when he was doing okay at right back. Picking out our fullbacks for doing nothing offensively probably shows just how bad we are offensively, we don't not score goals because of our fullbacks, we don't score goals because our fowards are poor and our midfield aren't even close to being creative enough.

If Maybury was 10 years younger i doubt anyone would be complaining about him? He's a player who is slow, cant move forward with the ball very well and lacks any real ability in getting forward and passing the ball. He's fine at sticking to defending in his own half, but looks very dodgy when being ran at with pace.

I never mentioned anything about us not scoring goals because our full backs are pish, :confused: i do think we concede more than we should because they are pish.

Bang average full backs, with little ability at driving us forward, add poor central defenders and a forward line that couldnt score in scorpios, this is why we are were we are.

Jones28
19-05-2014, 12:49 PM
Eh no. The stats show both players had poor first seasons in Scotland. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Collins will come good just because McKay did.

Nothing to suggest he won't though, just proof that it doesn't work out for everyone first time around.

If Collins was to leave for another Scottish club I garuantee he would come back to haunt us.

Bobby's Cinema
19-05-2014, 12:51 PM
Nothing to suggest he won't though, just proof that it doesn't work out for everyone first time around.

If Collins was to leave for another Scottish club I garuantee he would come back to haunt us.
I would normally agree, but I don't think he has it in him

Fergus52
19-05-2014, 12:53 PM
Eh no. The stats show both players had poor first seasons in Scotland. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Collins will come good just because McKay did.

Likewise there's nothing to suggest that he wont.

blackpoolhibs
19-05-2014, 12:53 PM
Nothing to suggest he won't though, just proof that it doesn't work out for everyone first time around.

If Collins was to leave for another Scottish club I garuantee he would come back to haunt us.

Do you reckon he's going to cover himself with a white bed sheet and hide behind corners then jump out shouting boo?

Fergus52
19-05-2014, 12:55 PM
If Maybury was 10 years younger i doubt anyone would be complaining about him? He's a player who is slow, cant move forward with the ball very well and lacks any real ability in getting forward and passing the ball. He's fine at sticking to defending in his own half, but looks very dodgy when being ran at with pace.

I never mentioned anything about us not scoring goals because our full backs are pish, :confused: i do think we concede more than we should because they are pish.

Bang average full backs, with little ability at driving us forward, add poor central defenders and a forward line that couldnt score in scorpios, this is why we are were we are.

he came in as back-up and has mainly been used as back up.

Hibs aren't going to have a squad where we have 2 or 3 top quality players in each position

blackpoolhibs
19-05-2014, 01:00 PM
he came in as back-up and has mainly been used as back up.

Hibs aren't going to have a squad where we have 2 or 3 top quality players in each position

I know this, but if he's our back up who is our first choice right back? Let me answer this for you, we dont have one. He's as you say a back up player, and he's in good company because most of the rest of this shambles should be the same, but they are playing every week. And its because we have so many poor players, managed by a poor manager we are in this position.

One quality player in each position would be sufficient for me please.

macd123
19-05-2014, 02:15 PM
I know this, but if he's our back up who is our first choice right back? Let me answer this for you, we dont have one. He's as you say a back up player, and he's in good company because most of the rest of this shambles should be the same, but they are playing every week. And its because we have so many poor players, managed by a poor manager we are in this position.

One quality player in each position would be sufficient for me please.

The pecking order was clancy, forster then maybury. Clancy is good enough for motherwell and st johnstone.

I would never say our players are world beaters but a good manager would get them in the top 6.

silverhibee
19-05-2014, 02:49 PM
Has this become a .net fact yet?

Looks like it.

blackpoolhibs
19-05-2014, 02:51 PM
The pecking order was clancy, forster then maybury. Clancy is good enough for motherwell and st johnstone.

I would never say our players are world beaters but a good manager would get them in the top 6.

Forster was never picked as right back under Fenlon, Maybury was because Clancy was never fit. I agree a good manager would have this lot higher, but top 6, never.

AK86
19-05-2014, 04:34 PM
Are you sure you're a Hibby? :confused: If you are, it should really be 'we', naw?
Yes I'm very sure I'm a Hibby. All the poppy stealers loved wee Pat, and who could blame them.
If you think I would waste my time debating stuff about a club or cause I don't care about then I can assure you , you are wrong. It's the usual response on here from anyone who dares to go against the grain.

I wasn't duped by him so I never used the word" we " .i knew the day he gave the thieves the git it up you gesture at Hampden he wasn't ready for a job like Hibs.
He filled our team with defence minded players, played one up front most of the time and we still got a few do-ings. Im old enough to have seen the Bertie auld days at ER , and Fenlons team were the most unimaginative, unfit, unappealing I have ever seen.
Thats my opinion . Other folk don't have to agree, I don't care, but to stoop to name calling and accusations is just childish.

FranckSuzy
19-05-2014, 07:47 PM
Oh behave yourself.

Griffiths was a good player long before Fenlon came to the club.
Fenlons idea of a striker was Kuqi FFS


your yanking my chain here.

he persisted in playing Stevenson on the wrong side , watching the guy getting tore apart on a weekly basis. Every club in the land knew it was our major weakness He wrecked the guys confidence.

If you think he progressed LS career then you don't have a clue what your on about
or your Pat Fenlon :wink:


Aye ok then , you have convinced me.
Pat Fenlon was genius


Word perfect :agree:

I often wonder at what point when he had Kuqi on trial did he think
" he looks a prospect, let's give him a year deal"
everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY , took about 5 mins seeing him play and knew he was useless well past his sell by date lumbering buffoon.


But when he resigned , he was bumping his gums about how great the board were to work with.
So he is a liar as well as an incompetent


No it's not, it's called being a spineless liar.


Worse than that.
he f####d my club. Signed Kuqi and Maybury and any passing Irishman he fancied.
he then left saying Hibs have been great with him, then changes his tune and says a lot without actually telling us anything.
the man is a complete bellend


He's been a decent pro for us. That is all

a player deemed not good enough for st Johnstone 2YEARS AGO. Is still getting a game at Hibernian and some people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.
Now that's pathetic .


CC was total knob. There is no disputing that.

Fenlon had nearly two years to improve things and didn't. He actually delivered us some humiliation.
my eyes were well open at what the clown was doing while the happy clappers on here and other places spouted absoloute drivel about progress and decent squad blah blah blah.
the guy was an amatuer,a joke, an embarrassment


Show me where I'm lying?

its not pathetic, the truth hurts, you were duped by an imposter and you feel silly.
but still you can't see it. That's pathetic


Yes I'm very sure I'm a Hibby. All the poppy stealers loved wee Pat, and who could blame them.
If you think I would waste my time debating stuff about a club or cause I don't care about then I can assure you , you are wrong. It's the usual response on here from anyone who dares to go against the grain.

I wasn't duped by him so I never used the word" we " .i knew the day he gave the thieves the git it up you gesture at Hampden he wasn't ready for a job like Hibs.
He filled our team with defence minded players, played one up front most of the time and we still got a few do-ings. Im old enough to have seen the Bertie auld days at ER , and Fenlons team were the most unimaginative, unfit, unappealing I have ever seen.
Thats my opinion . Other folk don't have to agree, I don't care, but to stoop to name calling and accusations is just childish.

:kettle:

500miles
19-05-2014, 10:11 PM
your yanking my chain here.

he persisted in playing Stevenson on the wrong side , watching the guy getting tore apart on a weekly basis. Every club in the land knew it was our major weakness He wrecked the guys confidence.

If you think he progressed LS career then you don't have a clue what your on about
or your Pat Fenlon :wink:

Lewis had a few good games at right back. - a position he was only asked to play due to numerous injuries. He was behind Clancy and Maybury in the pecking order. Even then, he only really struggled against the better wingers in the league.

By the way, Lewis wasn't playing regularly before Pat came in, so Fenlon definitely progressed his career. In fact, he was player of the year during his first season in charge. He was also POTY as voted for the Hibernian Disabled Supporters Association this year.

You seem to think that you have a better idea than everybody else what it takes to manage Hibs, and how the team works. If I were you, I'd get on Ebay, pick up a copy of this..
12598

and indulge your fantastic notions of football expertise and wisdom in an environment where they belong.

Bobby's Cinema
19-05-2014, 10:18 PM
:kettle:
:hilarious:hilarious I thought the same

AK86
19-05-2014, 11:34 PM
Lewis had a few good games at right back. - a position he was only asked to play due to numerous injuries. He was behind Clancy and Maybury in the pecking order. Even then, he only really struggled against the better wingers in the league.

By the way, Lewis wasn't playing regularly before Pat came in, so Fenlon definitely progressed his career. In fact, he was player of the year during his first season in charge. He was also POTY as voted for the Hibernian Disabled Supporters Association this year.

You seem to think that you have a better idea than everybody else what it takes to manage Hibs, and how the team works. If I were you, I'd get on Ebay, pick up a copy of this..
12598

and indulge your fantastic notions of football expertise and wisdom in an environment where they belong.
okay thanks for the advice. I will buy it tomorrow, first thing I will do is buy Kuqi , then waste all my budget on Collins


:hilarious:hilarious I thought the same
get a room, and stop brown nosing

Flanny boy
20-05-2014, 08:39 AM
If Maybury was 10 years younger i doubt anyone would be complaining about him? He's a player who is slow, cant move forward with the ball very well and lacks any real ability in getting forward and passing the ball. He's fine at sticking to defending in his own half, but looks very dodgy when being ran at with pace.

I never mentioned anything about us not scoring goals because our full backs are pish, :confused: i do think we concede more than we should because they are pish.

Bang average full backs, with little ability at driving us forward, add poor central defenders and a forward line that couldnt score in scorpios, this is why we are were we are.
Scorpios eh :aok:

Bobby's Cinema
20-05-2014, 08:45 AM
okay thanks for the advice. I will buy it tomorrow, first thing I will do is buy Kuqi , then waste all my budget on Collins


get a room, and stop brown nosing
I'm not going to start falling out with other Hibbys before tomorrow night :aok:

We're all angry, but let's stick together

FranckSuzy
20-05-2014, 09:47 AM
okay thanks for the advice. I will buy it tomorrow, first thing I will do is buy Kuqi , then waste all my budget on Collins


get a room, and stop brown nosing

Think you need to go and lie down for a while. Calling folks names, accusing them of 'brown nosing'. You're the one chucking accusations around. Gie it a rest, eh?

AK86
20-05-2014, 10:08 AM
Think you need to go and lie down for a while. Calling folks names, accusing them of 'brown nosing'. You're the one chucking accusations around. Gie it a rest, eh?
I think you find I was only criticizing Fenlon , then others started the derogatory about myself.
i couldn't care less what people think about me on a website. It's here for folks differing opinions and that's mine. And I know I'm right :na na: :greengrin

The vast majority of Hibbies I speak to in the real world agree that PF was an absoloute disaster who got a longer than he should have. Saying he was better than CC is a bit like saying a kick in the teeth is better than a boot in the baws.

I should have have let this go for sure, but I am absolutely baffled how anyone can praise the man for the disasters he led us too.he then has the cheek to say it's all wrong at ER , totally ignoring the fact he done or said heehaw when he had the chance.
i will try :greengrin And say no more about it

J-C
20-05-2014, 10:32 AM
I think you find I was only criticizing Fenlon , then others started the derogatory about myself.
i couldn't care less what people think about me on a website. It's here for folks differing opinions and that's mine. And I know I'm right :na na: :greengrin

The vast majority of Hibbies I speak to in the real world agree that PF was an absoloute disaster who got a longer than he should have. Saying he was better than CC is a bit like saying a kick in the teeth is better than a boot in the baws.

I should have have let this go for sure, but I am absolutely baffled how anyone can praise the man for the disasters he led us too.he then has the cheek to say it's all wrong at ER , totally ignoring the fact he done or said heehaw when he had the chance.
i will try :greengrin And say no more about it

Well you did call him a bellend, a joke, an embarrassment, a liar and incompetent, an impostor and you also called CC a knob. :aok:

I think people are basically saying compared to Butcher Fenlon wasn't that bad, under Fenlon we were eye bleeding to watch, had a few disasters here and there but were in general harder to beat. We would've scraped a few wins and draws and more than likely finished 7-8th but we would never be where we are right now. I think this is the point Fenlon is making in his statement, he took us to decent boring midtable but they were never going to end up in a play off, Butcher has been a disaster and I can't believe people are willing to give him next season with his own players, personally I think we've made another huge blunder in Butcher but we're stuck with him now.

Instead of worrying about what Fenlon done, you should be more worried about what Butcher is doing.