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jimmyboco1875
15-05-2014, 01:38 PM
Can anyone tell me why butcher played an unfit heffernan on sat but when he was fit he didn't get a game?

easty
15-05-2014, 01:41 PM
When was he fit but not getting a game?

Steven_Hibs
15-05-2014, 01:41 PM
Can anyone tell me why butcher played an unfit heffernan on sat but when he was fit he didn't get a game?

Cause Butchers not got a clue

StarMan10
15-05-2014, 01:44 PM
Can anyone tell me why butcher played an unfit heffernan on sat but when he was fit he didn't get a game?

Cause he is trying his darnedest to find some kind of combination that will provide goals. Think of our frustration at the lack of goals and multiplying it a few times by watching these strikers score goals in training to then not being able to hit a barn door on a Saturday

matty_f
15-05-2014, 01:44 PM
When was he fit but not getting a game?

I can't remember too many times where he was fit but not getting a game either. He was injured for ages, came back, got injured again, and has just come back.

leggeto
15-05-2014, 01:45 PM
He's just realized he is a striker and Collins is no

jimmyboco1875
15-05-2014, 01:47 PM
When was he fit but not getting a game?

Are you kidding? Lol he was fit and bench warming quite a few games

easty
15-05-2014, 02:02 PM
I can't remember too many times where he was fit but not getting a game either. He was injured for ages, came back, got injured again, and has just come back.

:agree:


Are you kidding? Lol he was fit and bench warming quite a few games

He was on the bench cos he was just coming back from injury, he wasn't "fit" yet.

jimmyboco1875
15-05-2014, 02:05 PM
:agree:



He was on the bench cos he was just coming back from injury, he wasn't "fit" yet.
Ah right there was me thinking he should have been playing

Thecat23
15-05-2014, 02:25 PM
I'll be honest, I don't rate Heff. Sat he was either unfit or just wasn't at the races. I'd bin him.

If he scores the winner to keep us up feel free to say "told you so!! :D

easty
15-05-2014, 02:26 PM
I'll be honest, I don't rate Heff. Sat he was either unfit or just wasn't at the races. I'd bin him.

If he scores the winner to keep us up feel free to say "told you so!! :D

I thought he looked good for Killie, havent seen much of him in a Hibs shirt that I've liked though.

Dr Jimmy
15-05-2014, 02:29 PM
Can anyone tell me why butcher played an unfit heffernan on sat but when he was fit he didn't get a game?
His name hadn't came out the hat until Saturday.

jimmyboco1875
15-05-2014, 02:37 PM
His name hadn't came out the hat until Saturday.

This seems more like it lol

nribs
15-05-2014, 02:45 PM
Are you kidding? Lol he was fit and bench warming quite a few games
When though? How fit was he when he was bench warming? I dont recall this??

jimmyboco1875
15-05-2014, 02:48 PM
When though? How fit was he when he was bench warming? I dont recall this??

Fitter than he was on Saturday that's got sure

Pretty Boy
15-05-2014, 02:49 PM
In fairness to the OP if Heffernan was being kept on the bench, and there was a period of 5/6 games where he was always on the bench, due to concerns over match fitness then it makes the decision to play him on Saturday seem all the more bizarre/desperate.

nribs
15-05-2014, 02:51 PM
Fitter than he was on Saturday that's got sure
I agree with that. It seemed like a desperate last throw of the dice. That wasn't what your op said though!?

easty
15-05-2014, 02:55 PM
In fairness to the OP if Heffernan was being kept on the bench, and there was a period of 5/6 games where he was always on the bench, due to concerns over match fitness then it makes the decision to play him on Saturday seem all the more bizarre/desperate.

Not really, I bet he still wasnt seen as being 100% fit, but it was our last roll of the dice to avoid the playoffs so the gamble had to be taken.

Onion
15-05-2014, 03:31 PM
I thought he looked good for Killie, havent seen much of him in a Hibs shirt that I've liked though.

First 10 mins then did his usual vanishing act. Looked a player when he first came to Hibs. Now looks like a man winding down to retirement.

Pretty Boy
15-05-2014, 03:43 PM
Not really, I bet he still wasnt seen as being 100% fit, but it was our last roll of the dice to avoid the playoffs so the gamble had to be taken.

I don't disagree that it was a gamble that had to be taken.

It does call TBs judgement into some doubt though. I get why he felt he had to change the formation on Saturday to go for it. However had he been even slightly more adventurous or flexible in the weeks and months previous a situation like Saturday could well have been avoided. Playing for a draw away to ICT, ironically by bringing on Heffernan to waste time and the defeat at tynecastle where it seemed the louder the fans called for a sub (Heff and Thomson in particular) the less likely it seemed both would happen. When he brought Harris and Thomson on we improved tenfold and had he done it earlier we may well have got at least a draw.

The fact it took until a desperate last throw of the dice to get him to change fornation is damning evidence against him as opposed to an excuse in his defence imo.

Bobby's Cinema
15-05-2014, 04:00 PM
His lack of fitness was evident after the first 45. Stevenson on the bench is an even stranger one for me, someone we can surely rely on in these games. But then, these are just some of the endless, undeniably strange decisions from TB that has us in this mess

blackpoolhibs
15-05-2014, 04:05 PM
He likes throwing in players who have played no football in weeks, sometimes months. There's no logic in this at all, and is just panic selections from someone who's out his depth again as a manager.

carnoustiehibee
15-05-2014, 04:09 PM
He likes throwing in players who have played no football in weeks, sometimes months. There's no logic in this at all, and is just panic selections from someone who's out his depth again as a manager.

Butchers tried everything with this group. When craig is going to the manager asking for him and Maurice to stop shouting at the players and you can hear a pin drop in the changing room at half time it must be tough trying to get these soggy arsed players to show some fight on the pitch

Franck Stanton
15-05-2014, 04:25 PM
Cause he is trying his darnedest to find some kind of combination that will provide goals. Think of our frustration at the lack of goals and multiplying it a few times by watching these strikers score goals in training to then not being able to hit a barn door on a Saturday

Aye, but in training they are up against our defenders.

Jim44
15-05-2014, 04:26 PM
Butchers tried everything with this group. When craig is going to the manager asking for him and Maurice to stop shouting at the players and you can hear a pin drop in the changing room at half time it must be tough trying to get these soggy arsed players to show some fight on the pitch

How come we managed to win some games with these 'soggy arsed' players? Surely it can't be because Butcher, intentionally or not, gradually knocked the stuffing and confidence out of them. I'm convinced he is an empty vessel with an ever-decreasing ability to do the job we initially thought he was capable of.

easty
15-05-2014, 04:32 PM
I don't disagree that it was a gamble that had to be taken.

It does call TBs judgement into some doubt though. I get why he felt he had to change the formation on Saturday to go for it. However had he been even slightly more adventurous or flexible in the weeks and months previous a situation like Saturday could well have been avoided. Playing for a draw away to ICT, ironically by bringing on Heffernan to waste time and the defeat at tynecastle where it seemed the louder the fans called for a sub (Heff and Thomson in particular) the less likely it seemed both would happen. When he brought Harris and Thomson on we improved tenfold and had he done it earlier we may well have got at least a draw.

The fact it took until a desperate last throw of the dice to get him to change fornation is damning evidence against him as opposed to an excuse in his defence imo.

Cannae really argue with that PB.

Nutmegged
15-05-2014, 04:49 PM
I think Butcher just wanted to go with experience on Saturday, out of everyone in the squad there's only two guys you could say is good for a goal in the Premiership, one would be Heffernan and the other would probably be Liam Craig, I can quite underatand why he went with Heff in what was a one off winner is safe game.

Golden Bear
15-05-2014, 04:53 PM
I think Butcher just wanted to go with experience on Saturday, out of everyone in the squad there's only two guys you could say is good for a goal in the Premiership, one would be Heffernan and the other would probably be Liam Craig, I can quite underatand why he went with Heff in what was a one off winner is safe game.


Could be. And TB possibly thought that Heff had a point to make against his old club and it would spur him on to produce a match winning performance. Or something like that.

carnoustiehibee
15-05-2014, 04:55 PM
How come we managed to win some games with these 'soggy arsed' players? Surely it can't be because Butcher, intentionally or not, gradually knocked the stuffing and confidence out of them. I'm convinced he is an empty vessel with an ever-decreasing ability to do the job we initially thought he was capable of.

What you mean big games like Derbys and when the pressure was really on in the bottom six run in. How can't it be cause butcher knocked the stuffing out of them, that doesn't make sense.

I don't think butcher should've said at the start that most the players were leaving nor can I understand how a top English and scottish international defender can't get the ****ing defence sorted though.

Nutmegged
15-05-2014, 04:58 PM
Could be. And TB possibly thought that Heff had a point to make against his old club and it would spur him on to produce a match winning performance. Or something like that.

Yeah I think thats a valid train of thought too GB - It obviously didn't work and maybe it was slightly naive in hindsight just throwing him in but if I'm honest then I'll say I was a lot more hopeful we could get the win when I saw he was in the line up...maybe that says more about the other strikers tha it does about Heff though.

greenlex
15-05-2014, 05:00 PM
I think Butcher just wanted to go with experience on Saturday, out of everyone in the squad there's only two guys you could say is good for a goal in the Premiership, one would be Heffernan and the other would probably be Liam Craig, I can quite underatand why he went with Heff in what was a one off winner is safe game.
The only real proven goalscorer in the squad.Collins has proved to have a severe lack of confidence if not ability. Cummings hasn't scored a senior goal. ( once he gets his first IM sure he will get a good few) Handling is lightweight and cannot hold the ball up to bring anyone else into the game not to mention hardly prolific when he's had game time. Heffernan is our only hope of a goal. Even half fit he shouldbe first on the team sheet.

blackpoolhibs
15-05-2014, 05:01 PM
Butchers tried everything with this group. When craig is going to the manager asking for him and Maurice to stop shouting at the players and you can hear a pin drop in the changing room at half time it must be tough trying to get these soggy arsed players to show some fight on the pitch

He's not tried putting out the same team twice in a row, he's not tried to get some kind of understanding that you get with playing a settled side, and he's not tried to keep them together by good man management, in fact quite the opposite.

4 sometimes 5 changes week on week, throwing in players who have not played in months, 2 at the same time in central midfield against St Mirren away, both incidentally sitting holding midfielders in OTJ and Thomson, just tells me he's picking names out of a hat.

Tombolla Terry, thats what i call him.

Golden Bear
15-05-2014, 05:02 PM
Yeah I think thats a valid train of thought too GB - It obviously didn't work and maybe it was slightly naive in hindsight just throwing him in but if I'm honest then I'll say I was a lot more hopeful we could get the win when I saw he was in the line up...maybe that says more about the other strikers tha it does about Heff though.

I agree but the Heff is only going to be effective if he receives the right kind of service and that doesn't include chasing down long balls which are lumped into the corners.

Golden Bear
15-05-2014, 05:06 PM
He's not tried putting out the same team twice in a row, he's not tried to get some kind of understanding that you get with playing a settled side, and he's not tried to keep them together by good man management, in fact quite the opposite.

4 sometimes 5 changes week on week, throwing in players who have not played in months, 2 at the same time in central midfield against St Mirren away, both incidentally sitting holding midfielders in OTJ and Thomson, just tells me he's picking names out of a hat.

Tombolla Terry, thats what i call him.

Synonymous as his predecessor - in other words the actual line up is almost incidental as it will be loaded with mediocrity regardless.

However onwards and upwards must be the message in the meantime.

:flag:

easty
15-05-2014, 05:06 PM
Tombolla Terry, thats what i call him.

I bet you call him worse things than that.

Captain Trips
15-05-2014, 05:31 PM
He's not tried putting out the same team twice in a row, he's not tried to get some kind of understanding that you get with playing a settled side, and he's not tried to keep them together by good man management, in fact quite the opposite.

4 sometimes 5 changes week on week, throwing in players who have not played in months, 2 at the same time in central midfield against St Mirren away, both incidentally sitting holding midfielders in OTJ and Thomson, just tells me he's picking names out of a hat.

Tombolla Terry, thats what i call him.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-play-tombola-5.png

blackpoolhibs
15-05-2014, 05:42 PM
I bet you call him worse things than that.

I have, but none can be typed on here.

Green Reaper
15-05-2014, 06:01 PM
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-play-tombola-5.png

10/10

Tyler Durden
15-05-2014, 06:17 PM
I can't remember too many times where he was fit but not getting a game either. He was injured for ages, came back, got injured again, and has just come back.

Just had a look and after returning to squad for the derby on 2nd January, Heffernan was in the squad for 11 of the next 12 games, starting a few. Then early April Butcher picked him against Aberdeen and he was injured in the warm up.

So clearly Butcher didn't fancy him for long periods

happiehibbie
15-05-2014, 08:40 PM
TBH these guys are all fit what we are talking about is match fitness, If I was TB i would have put the Heff in as well, desperate times need desperate measures, I think if Thomson was 90% he would have played too,

But I am not really fussed if we go down! Rangers Hearts chance of winning more games than we lose and we get a derby

GGTTH

NadeAteMyLunch!
15-05-2014, 09:28 PM
I actually thought his first touch on Sat was pretty good considering he's hardly played. Unfortunately, as throughout this season, all this work was done 30 yards from goal. A player like Heff should rarely leave the 18 yard box during a game, that's where he's going to do some damage

Jim44
16-05-2014, 06:19 PM
How come we managed to win some games with these 'soggy arsed' players? Surely it can't be because Butcher, intentionally or not, gradually knocked the stuffing and confidence out of them. I'm convinced he is an empty vessel with an ever-decreasing ability to do the job we initially thought he was capable of.


What you mean big games like Derbys and when the pressure was really on in the bottom six run in. How can't it be cause butcher knocked the stuffing out of them, that doesn't make sense.

I don't think butcher should've said at the start that most the players were leaving nor can I understand how a top English and scottish international defender can't get the ****ing defence sorted though.

I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet here, Carnoustiehibee. I don't think you connected with my sarcasm. I think the bulk of the blame for our demise is because of Butcher and his self-important, misguided handling of the squad.

leggeto
16-05-2014, 07:18 PM
I actually thought his first touch on Sat was pretty good considering he's hardly played. Unfortunately, as throughout this season, all this work was done 30 yards from goal. A player like Heff should rarely leave the 18 yard box during a game, that's where he's going to do some damage

I really think Collins should be played in midfield he has bags of energy which could be put to better use

Mr White
16-05-2014, 07:52 PM
I really think Collins should be played in midfield he has bags of energy which could be put to better use

He does but his first touch is bad with his opponent behind him, I'd be surprised if it improved if he had to face them head on.

Craig_in_Prague
16-05-2014, 08:39 PM
TBH these guys are all fit what we are talking about is match fitness, If I was TB i would have put the Heff in as well, desperate times need desperate measures, I think if Thomson was 90% he would have played too,

But I am not really fussed if we go down! Rangers Hearts chance of winning more games than we lose and we get a derby

GGTTH

You're not fussed if we go down? Eh??

Would be a serious disaster for the club.