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View Full Version : The yams ( we're now debt free ) myth



Waxy
15-05-2014, 12:11 PM
Amazing how many are saying now we're debt free we'll be bigger than ever soon. I reckon they're all wrong. My arguement is that as they've never paid their debts therefore they've always been debt free. They've been debt free but with extra cash from loans etc which they never did get to pay back.Basically for at least the last 30 years.
I'm no expert but i doubt they'll get a loan for a while and they'll have to live on less money than they ever have, forever.

Thecat23
15-05-2014, 12:14 PM
Hearts are skint, budge is very much I'm the same frame of mind is Farmer. She won't waste money and it will be scrapping the barrel for a long, long time to come.

Plus they are NOT debt free.

hibbymac
15-05-2014, 12:15 PM
Amazing how many are saying now we're debt free we'll be bigger than ever soon. I reckon they're all wrong. My arguement is that as they've never paid their debts therefore they've always been debt free. They've been debt free but with extra cash from loans etc which they never did get to pay back.Basically for at least the last 30 years.
I'm no expert but i doubt they'll get a loan for a while and they'll have to live on less money than they ever have, forever.

:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ??

Keith_M
15-05-2014, 12:18 PM
:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ??


Yep, the whole £6M of it :wink:



Anyway, it's easy to be fairly debt free if you just dump circa £60M in debts to all and sundry (that's the real figure, don't fall for the £28M myth). It's amazing how little, if at all, this is mentioned in the media.

Waxy
15-05-2014, 12:20 PM
Your right. Even worse they must pay the budgie.
Pay the budgie.

Onceinawhile
15-05-2014, 12:20 PM
:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ??

Yes, but Bidco are the owners of the club. Foundation of Hearts owe budge £2.5 million for the CVA, plus her yearly interest charge (I think at 6%), plus her "arrangement fee" of circa £100,000.

What I'm getting at I suppose, is that apart from the football debt. HMFC (owned by Bidco) do not have debts. FOH are paying Bidco to buy HMFC off them, but that isn't a debt. It's essentially a sale.

The Green Goblin
15-05-2014, 12:20 PM
Amazing how many are saying now we're debt free we'll be bigger than ever soon. I reckon they're all wrong. My arguement is that as they've never paid their debts therefore they've always been debt free. They've been debt free but with extra cash from loans etc which they never did get to pay back.Basically for at least the last 30 years.
I'm no expert but i doubt they'll get a loan for a while and they'll have to live on less money than they ever have, forever.

They will never be the same club again. A long period of austerity and hard decisions beckons. Those yams who have gotten used to, grown up with and gloried in the years of overspending will find it hardest to take...poor wee lambs. :tee hee:

TornadoHibby
15-05-2014, 12:22 PM
Hearts are skint, budge is very much I'm the same frame of mind is Farmer. She won't waste money and it will be scrapping the barrel for a long, long time to come.

Plus they are NOT debt free.

:top marks

She worked hard in her IT business to make it generate the large wad that she now has to live comfortably with but I doubt whether she has much of an appetite to lose ANY of that wad on paying overinflated costs which exceed the business income in her Jumbo venture! :greengrin :wink:

She does like to treat herself to very nice personal items such as the rather nice Aston Martin that she rocked up the other day in to fire everyone who were "surplus to requirements" immediately she turned up as MD! :greengrin

R11Loaded
15-05-2014, 12:43 PM
Ann Budge made £26m of her business, Sir Tom Farmer made over a billion. Do we really think she'll spend money on them, that she won't get back?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seveno
15-05-2014, 12:58 PM
Ann Budge made £26m of her business, Sir Tom Farmer made over a billion. Do we really think she'll spend money on them, that she won't get back?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

STF sold Kwik-Fit to Ford for a billion but he owned less than 10% of the company. He has though made a lot of money from his property interests in addition.

scott7_0(Prague)
15-05-2014, 01:00 PM
:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ??

The money she paid in will be paid back at 6% pa and has a management fee to be included. She will make in the region of 1m from the entire 5 year process.

Not debt free, but managed debt (at the moment) :wink:

Geo_1875
15-05-2014, 01:03 PM
STF sold Kwik-Fit to Ford for a billion but he owned less than 10% of the company. He has though made a lot of money from his property interests in addition.

Was that the first or second time it was sold?

Weststandwanab
15-05-2014, 01:15 PM
:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ?? And the rest.


Ann Budge made £26m of her business, Sir Tom Farmer made over a billion. Do we really think she'll spend money on them, that she won't get back?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk£26m less Capital Gain tax

CyberSauzee
15-05-2014, 01:29 PM
They've got the footballing debts to pay off. IIRC about £550k, including Driver's share of over £100k.

Jack Hackett
15-05-2014, 01:52 PM
The money she paid in will be paid back at 6% pa and has a management fee to be included. She will make in the region of 1m from the entire 5 year process.

Not debt free, but managed debt (at the moment) :wink:

....but, but I thought 'managed debt' is cheating according to sickbag ...at least it is when we do it.

#allveryconfusing

Seveno
15-05-2014, 01:59 PM
Was that the first or second time it was sold?

The first. Ford sold it later to CVC for £350m.

southern hibby
15-05-2014, 03:20 PM
She's ( if i've read Hibs Net correctly) managed to get her boyfriend on the hearts board. Obviously that's wages for him and her.

Also hearts are not out of Administration yet ( have the shares even been released from Lithuania )? The season has finished and they have no income. This makes me ask the question why are season tickets not on sale and when will they be going on sale?

All I know is Romanov pampered the jambo's. She has taken over and told them that it's going to be a hard slog. Sacked the manager, let players go who were out of contract. This alone makes me believe she will not pamper them unlike the last clown. So whether they are debt free or not I do not believe we will see hearts back anytime soon spending untold riches they never had on players.
They will have less tv money, still have to pay their footballing debt, Heriot Watt for their training sessions and on top of that still live within their means.
As for them saying they are debt free, they are I'n essence debt free compared to where they were, when they went I'n to admin. BUT LET WAIT AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS (AND WORKS OUT ) FOR THEM.
GGTTH

jdships
15-05-2014, 04:45 PM
The money she paid in will be paid back at 6% pa and has a management fee to be included. She will make in the region of 1m from the entire 5 year process.

Not debt free, but managed debt (at the moment) :wink:


:agree:
Debt's whatever size they are have to be " seviced" and at the same time the company has to operate on a profitable basis . Plus rthere is the matter of the old stand : heard today it's certificate comes up for renewal in the autumn - anyone know anything re this ?
Next twelve months will prove one way or other if they have right people running the " show"
After Mrs B leaves is another ball game altogether
Who amongst those who reckoned to be in the frame to run the club then has business experience to meet the needs of a top football club.
Have a wee sneaking suspicion things will be very downbeat at PBS for a year or two at least :rolleyes:

lapsedhibee
15-05-2014, 05:09 PM
:agree:
Debt's whatever size they are have to be " seviced" and at the same time the company has to operate on a profitable basis . Plus rthere is the matter of the old stand : heard today it's certificate comes up for renewal in the autumn - anyone know anything re this ?


Don't think you have to be In The Know to know that this will be renewed.

Viva_Palmeiras
16-05-2014, 12:53 AM
12585
:confused: Ehh, is Budgie no wanting her £2.5 million back ??

IWasThere2016
16-05-2014, 06:15 AM
Hearts are skint, budge is very much I'm the same frame of mind is Farmer. She won't waste money and it will be scrapping the barrel for a long, long time to come.

Plus they are NOT debt free.

And they stay in a hole. They have better players than us however..

mjhibby
16-05-2014, 07:50 AM
Apologies as I've not followed this but are they still in administration or not.there has been so much said but switched off ages ago.

flash
16-05-2014, 08:03 AM
Apologies as I've not followed this but are they still in administration or not.there has been so much said but switched off ages ago.

Welcome back from Mars.

jdships
16-05-2014, 09:21 AM
Don't think you have to be In The Know to know that this will be renewed.

You are probably right - that is if it doesn't fall down one dark night !!

Was in the company of three Jambo's last night ( older guys ) and couldn't believe the belief that Hearts are " COMPLETELY DEBT FREE " !!
Even when my friend , an accountant who worked on the Sevco job , tried to explain that for starters there is the debt to Ms Budge which has to be repaid at 6% interest .
Fell on deaf ears with remarks like " she is a real Jambo and will stand by us " - as my friend added " and an astute business women who is not running a HofM Charity "

Interesting couple of years ahead methinks !!

ballengeich
16-05-2014, 09:30 AM
Obviously they're not debt-free, but given their crowds relative to the average in the Championship I expect them to put together a good enough team to reach next season's playoffs without spending above what they can afford. At that point it's unpredictable who'll get the promotion so they could have only one season away from the Premier.

I don't expect them to win the division as The Rangers have a squad which should come top unless the club collapses financially.

boab1875
16-05-2014, 10:51 AM
I have heard this being banded about the office as well and the truth is, any yam telling you they are debt free is talking utter bollocks. The fans have to pay Budge back over a number of years, during which additional debts could be accumulated.

The sickening fact is the way that they have gotten away with it. The bottom line is, the cheats are paying back a fraction of the debt that they accumulated over the time when they were cheating their way to scottish cups, 2nd place finishes etc. They were about 37 million in debt and have to pay back 2.5 million of that plus interest. Makes me feel ill thinking about that.

The other frustrating point is that, whether we like it or not, Hearts have had the third largest home support in Scotland for some time now and that doesn't look like waning. With ticket sales providing the main source of income to all clubs outside of Celtic, it would be wishful thinking to think that Hearts will not establish themselves as a top 6 team competing for Europe etc in the next few years. They will however, have to do it on a level playing field meaning a repeat of the Romanov spending will never happen again.

Cropley10
16-05-2014, 11:01 AM
I have heard this being banded about the office as well and the truth is, any yam telling you they are debt free is talking utter bollocks. The fans have to pay Budge back over a number of years, during which additional debts could be accumulated.

The sickening fact is the way that they have gotten away with it. The bottom line is, the cheats are paying back a fraction of the debt that they accumulated over the time when they were cheating their way to scottish cups, 2nd place finishes etc. They were about 37 million in debt and have to pay back 2.5 million of that plus interest. Makes me feel ill thinking about that.

The other frustrating point is that, whether we like it or not, Hearts have had the third largest home support in Scotland for some time now and that doesn't look like waning. With ticket sales providing the main source of income to all clubs outside of Celtic, it would be wishful thinking to think that Hearts will not establish themselves as a top 6 team competing for Europe etc in the next few years. They will however, have to do it on a level playing field meaning a repeat of the Romanov spending will never happen again.

Yeah those Cups they won, the European nights, the UCL Qualifier, the players they had on the park, the derby wins during that period, really does make you sick.

Thing is they have those memories forever. They can't be taken away.

But I'm really glad there's no danger of us going bust, or going into admin. That would be terrible.

Geo_1875
16-05-2014, 12:20 PM
Yeah those Cups they won, the European nights, the UCL Qualifier, the players they had on the park, the derby wins during that period, really does make you sick.

Thing is they have those memories forever. They can't be taken away.

But I'm really glad there's no danger of us going bust, or going into admin. That would be terrible.

Much like Jimmy Saville recalling his sex life.

The Green Goblin
16-05-2014, 12:33 PM
I have heard this being banded about the office as well and the truth is, any yam telling you they are debt free is talking utter bollocks. The fans have to pay Budge back over a number of years, during which additional debts could be accumulated.

The sickening fact is the way that they have gotten away with it. The bottom line is, the cheats are paying back a fraction of the debt that they accumulated over the time when they were cheating their way to scottish cups, 2nd place finishes etc. They were about 37 million in debt and have to pay back 2.5 million of that plus interest. Makes me feel ill thinking about that.

The other frustrating point is that, whether we like it or not, Hearts have had the third largest home support in Scotland for some time now and that doesn't look like waning. With ticket sales providing the main source of income to all clubs outside of Celtic, it would be wishful thinking to think that Hearts will not establish themselves as a top 6 team competing for Europe etc in the next few years. They will however, have to do it on a level playing field meaning a repeat of the Romanov spending will never happen again.


Are you sure about that? Hearts create their attendance figures by starting with ST holders then adding on walkups. It`s nonsense. As for not looking like waning, well, let`s see how that plays out after their paper thin squad have played their first few games next season.

The 2nd bit in bold - I am a wishful thinker then. Hearts time as a self-proclaimed "big club" (achieved by pishing away tens of millions of other peoples`money) has come to an end.

Hibernia Na Eir
16-05-2014, 12:36 PM
You are probably right - that is if it doesn't fall down one dark night !!

Was in the company of three Jambo's last night ( older guys ) and couldn't believe the belief that Hearts are " COMPLETELY DEBT FREE " !!
Even when my friend , an accountant who worked on the Sevco job , tried to explain that for starters there is the debt to Ms Budge which has to be repaid at 6% interest .
Fell on deaf ears with remarks like " she is a real Jambo and will stand by us " - as my friend added " and an astute business women who is not running a HofM Charity "

Interesting couple of years ahead methinks !!

wouldn't surprise me if they did come away from all this smelling of roses. They've been spawny for as long as anyone can remember. Will their luck ever run out?

SurferRosa
16-05-2014, 02:06 PM
Yes, but Bidco are the owners of the club. Foundation of Hearts owe budge £2.5 million for the CVA, plus her yearly interest charge (I think at 6%), plus her "arrangement fee" of circa £100,000.

What I'm getting at I suppose, is that apart from the football debt. HMFC (owned by Bidco) do not have debts. FOH are paying Bidco to buy HMFC off them, but that isn't a debt. It's essentially a sale.

In other words, they " owe it to themselves ".. :greengrin

Holmesdale Hibs
16-05-2014, 02:48 PM
Haven't been following in detail so apologies it tho has been asked before, but who owns PBS? I never understood why Romanov or the administrators didn't cash in on it.

Spike Mandela
16-05-2014, 02:55 PM
Wouldn't get your knickers in a twist about it. They've written off £26m+ and have used the tool of administration to do it. If we ever get an owner or Chief exec who is more liberal with the cash and the debt becomes unmanageable then we can pull the same trick.

Football administration........still the easiest scam to pull off ever.:cb

emerald green
16-05-2014, 03:04 PM
Wouldn't get your knickers in a twist about it. They've written off £26m+ and have used the tool of administration to do it. If we ever get an owner or Chief exec who is more liberal with the cash and the debt becomes unmanageable then we can pull the same trick.

Football administration........still the easiest scam to pull off ever.:cb

And yet, if a stranger were to read the stuff in the press here, and/or listen to stuff on the radio and TV over the last season, they would probably get the impression that HOMFC were hard done bye. It's a scandal, and they have got away very lightly IMO.

The Green Goblin
16-05-2014, 05:23 PM
And yet, if a stranger were to read the stuff in the press here, and/or listen to stuff on the radio and TV over the last season, they would probably get the impression that HOMFC were hard done bye. It's a scandal, and they have got away very lightly IMO.

You're right about the media... I think it will be a case of reality bites for two or three lonnnng seasons though, maybe more if it all doesn't quite work out.

Salisbury Hibby
16-05-2014, 05:29 PM
Wouldn't get your knickers in a twist about it. They've written off £26m+ and have used the tool of administration to do it. If we ever get an owner or Chief exec who is more liberal with the cash and the debt becomes unmanageable then we can pull the same trick.

Football administration........still the easiest scam to pull off ever.:cb

The cynic in me thinks that Hibs would be made an example of, and the establishment would do bugger all. Can't imagine anybody in high public office fighting our corner.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

marinello59
16-05-2014, 05:33 PM
The cynic in me thinks that Hibs would be made an example of, and the establishment would do bugger all. Can't imagine anybody in high public office fighting our corner.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

What? Over all the other businesses in the country that go in to Admin we would be the only one not allowed to use the law as it stands? I doubt it.

Onion
16-05-2014, 05:33 PM
Wouldn't get your knickers in a twist about it. They've written off £26m+ and have used the tool of administration to do it. If we ever get an owner or Chief exec who is more liberal with the cash and the debt becomes unmanageable then we can pull the same trick.

Football administration........still the easiest scam to pull off ever.:cb

:agree: Petrie hasn't read the script and is trying to get the relegation bit out of the way before we start spending big and winning trophies :cb

Salisbury Hibby
16-05-2014, 05:35 PM
What? Over all the other businesses in the country that go in to Admin we would be the only one not allowed to use the law as it stands? I doubt it.

You don't have a right to have a CVA accepted.

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emerald green
16-05-2014, 06:18 PM
You're right about the media... I think it will be a case of reality bites for two or three lonnnng seasons though, maybe more if it all doesn't quite work out.

I really hope so Green Goblin.

jdships
16-05-2014, 07:20 PM
You're right about the media... I think it will be a case of reality bites for two or three lonnnng seasons though, maybe more if it all doesn't quite work out.

:thumbsup::agree:

NAE NOOKIE
17-05-2014, 09:48 AM
Much like Jimmy Saville recalling his sex life.

Brilliant ..........:faf:

Vini1875
17-05-2014, 10:03 AM
Having read a fair bit of these threads on here, I have drawn the conclusion that no one has a clue as to what will happen next with them. Much of what has been written already is wishful thinking. It is just as likely that will win the championship, Budge will spend a few quid, sell players for a few quid, realise a profit and come to the SPFL as though nothing has happened to resume their arrogant, self appointed third force position.

As for the millions in unpaid debt? A quick shrug of the shoulders will see that off as a Hobo myth.

Keith_M
17-05-2014, 11:12 AM
Having read a fair bit of these threads on here, I have drawn the conclusion that no one has a clue as to what will happen next with them. Much of what has been written already is wishful thinking. It is just as likely that will win the championship, Budge will spend a few quid, sell players for a few quid, realise a profit and come to the SPFL as though nothing has happened to resume their arrogant, self appointed third force position.

As for the millions in unpaid debt? A quick shrug of the shoulders will see that off as a Hobo myth.


:agree:


They've already started to re-write history as it is, like the myth of Hibs dumping loads of debt by going into Adminstration in 1990 (for the benefit of any Yams looking in, neither of those things happened)

Famous Fiver
18-05-2014, 04:36 PM
Isn't it odd that just when Budge took over and the 'fans' will now run the club, their main airway, Kickback, went down and has stayed down.
North Korea or what? New open fan ownership my *rse. Most of them are skulking about on here to find out what's going on.

GreenLake
18-05-2014, 04:52 PM
Isn't it odd that just when Budge took over and the 'fans' will now run the club, their main airway, Kickback, went down and has stayed down.
North Korea or what? New open fan ownership my *rse. Most of them are skulking about on here to find out what's going on.

Interesting the site was taken down. Was it a decision by:

1. The owner
2. The main clique
3. Club orders
4. FOH orders
5. Budge bought the site/owner

emerald green
18-05-2014, 05:29 PM
Interesting the site was taken down. Was it a decision by:

1. The owner
2. The main clique
3. Club orders
4. FOH orders
5. Budge bought the site/owner

It's a secret. :cb

Geo_1875
18-05-2014, 06:11 PM
The games up for us now. I heard one of them today mention the famous warchest. Just about chokef on my pint.