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View Full Version : Most disastrous run - most unlucky as well?



madhatter
13-05-2014, 11:53 AM
From my own recollection, I can't remember us having such a solid series of: stonewall penalties being rejected, goals being chopped off, rebounds from blocks falling to opposition defenders rather than our players, hitting the woodwork, hitting the woodwork or an unbelievable save landing at one of their players, and lastly, the sheer amount of time wasting teams do against us to break our rhythm which has, all season, went unpunished.

Killie timewasting in the first half when we were on top. I remember their left-back (in the first half), for a long throw-in, went for walkies and rather than getting a booking just got told to hurry it up. Their goalkeeper did the same.

I cannot remember such a barren run of referee decisions in our favour. Such an horrendous amount of timewasting going unpunished and woodwork and rebounds not falling for us.

We've been atrocious but this hasn't helped!

California-Hibs
13-05-2014, 11:56 AM
Completely agree, on any other day, both Partick and Killie recently in particular, would of been thumped by us!

scuttle
13-05-2014, 11:58 AM
From my own recollection, I can't remember us having such a solid series of: stonewall penalties being rejected, goals being chopped off, rebounds from blocks falling to opposition defenders rather than our players, hitting the woodwork, hitting the woodwork or an unbelievable save landing at one of their players, and lastly, the sheer amount of time wasting teams do against us to break our rhythm which has, all season, went unpunished.

Killie timewasting in the first half when we were on top. I remember their left-back (in the first half), for a long throw-in, went for walkies and rather than getting a booking just got told to hurry it up. Their goalkeeper did the same.

I cannot remember such a barren run of referee decisions in our favour. Such an horrendous amount of timewasting going unpunished and woodwork and rebounds not falling for us.

We've been atrocious but this hasn't helped!

Its an old saying MH but you make your own luck, cant blame anyone or anything other than ourselves IMO

Bobby's Cinema
13-05-2014, 12:01 PM
I don't buy into this. You cannot have most of the game, fail to convert, and be so soft as to let the opposition go up the park and score against the run of play EVERY week, and put it down to luck.

Nando™
13-05-2014, 12:01 PM
Its an old saying MH but you make your own luck, cant blame anyone or anything other than ourselves IMO

So Hibs are to blame for the howling errors by referees? Such as the chopped-off goal in the last away derby..

Jdawg
13-05-2014, 12:01 PM
Its an old saying MH but you make your own luck, cant blame anyone or anything other than ourselves IMO

Completely agree with your post.

Hopefully crosses into the box and relying on the ball falling to is. Create good enough chances and we will score, no luck required

madhatter
13-05-2014, 12:03 PM
Its an old saying MH but you make your own luck, cant blame anyone or anything other than ourselves IMO

I agree totally, however, as stated if you hit the post 2-3 times in a game and nothing falls to you then the only thing you can really do is keep going. Players should improve their mathematics and make sure any shot headed for the post takes the proper deflection trajectory to a team-mate :aok:

You are entirely right but there is still a portion of "rub of the green".

Triple handball from St Mirren defender in last minute and no penalty is the "rub of the green" scenario. St Mirren player didn't make that luck. They got lucky.

Also, winning the lottery involves luck. Apart from buying 100k tickets - this kind of luck can not be manufactured.

madhatter
13-05-2014, 12:05 PM
I don't buy into this. You cannot have most of the game, fail to convert, and be so soft as to let the opposition go up the park and score against the run of play EVERY week, and put it down to luck.


Did I say I put down their performances down to luck? No. I stated that looking back, we've had some stinking luck as well...

Cropley10
13-05-2014, 12:06 PM
I agree totally, however, as stated if you hit the post 2-3 times in a game and nothing falls to you then the only thing you can really do is keep going. Players should improve their mathematics and make sure any shot headed for the post takes the proper deflection trajectory to a team-mate :aok:

You are entirely right but there is still a portion of "rub of the green".

Triple handball from St Mirren defender in last minute and no penalty is the "rub of the green" scenario. St Mirren player didn't make that luck. They got lucky.

Also, winning the lottery involves luck. Apart from buying 100k tickets - this kind of luck can not be manufactured.

Which game was it Collins got absolutely cleaned out in the penalty area at the FF end when he was shaping to shoot. Right at the end of the game IIRC? Nothing given (was it Raith?)

JimBHibees
13-05-2014, 12:09 PM
Which game was it Collins got absolutely cleaned out in the penalty area at the FF end when he was shaping to shoot. Right at the end of the game IIRC? Nothing given (was it Raith?)

St Johnstone.

scuttle
13-05-2014, 12:13 PM
So Hibs are to blame for the howling errors by referees? Such as the chopped-off goal in the last away derby..
No Nando they are not to blame for that particular decision but are to blame for one win in 19 and 3 goals in the last ten

Bristolhibby
13-05-2014, 12:13 PM
Only game I've been to this season (apart from the playoff 2nd leg) was the game just before Christmas (21/12/13) v St. Johnstone 0-0, with a late on stonewaller penalty not given for Collins getting his shooting leg taken out from under him.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TV/LiveMatches/0,,10290~71470,00.html

J

Nando™
13-05-2014, 12:33 PM
No Nando they are not to blame for that particular decision but are to blame for one win in 19 and 3 goals in the last ten

But terrible refereeing decisions throughout the season have contributed largely towards us finishing 11th. Had proper officiating been present then we'd be (a rough guess) 6 points clear of it and would have scored more goals through penalties etc..

Broken Gnome
13-05-2014, 12:33 PM
Am I right in saying the last time we led a game was between the 89th and 90-something minute against Motherwell?

Having those extra two points would probably have made us safe. Actually turning that game from a losing position to a win mightve done wonders to us.

Last season we blamed bottom six on bad luck as well. Was far more credible that time round. Yes the St Mirren handball and Tynecastle offside didn't help and would've made all the difference, but the lack of fortune doesn't outweigh the ineptitude sadly.

Pat 0-7
13-05-2014, 12:34 PM
From my own recollection, I can't remember us having such a solid series of: stonewall penalties being rejected, goals being chopped off, rebounds from blocks falling to opposition defenders rather than our players, hitting the woodwork, hitting the woodwork or an unbelievable save landing at one of their players, and lastly, the sheer amount of time wasting teams do against us to break our rhythm which has, all season, went unpunished.

Killie timewasting in the first half when we were on top. I remember their left-back (in the first half), for a long throw-in, went for walkies and rather than getting a booking just got told to hurry it up. Their goalkeeper did the same.

I cannot remember such a barren run of referee decisions in our favour. Such an horrendous amount of timewasting going unpunished and woodwork and rebounds not falling for us.

We've been atrocious but this hasn't helped!

:agree:

If a few of those decisions had went our way - like the penalty against St. J. and Forsters equaliser against the mutants - we could maybe have had an extra, say, 5 or 6 points and not been in this position.

Injuries to Harris, Hanlon and Thomson have been unlucky as well, although Pat or TB should have had better cover in the squad than what we have at the moment.

I think we will create chances in the play-off, and I think we will get 2 or 3 goals over the 2 games and will do enough to stay up - just.

:flag:

scuttle
13-05-2014, 12:43 PM
But terrible refereeing decisions throughout the season have contributed largely towards us finishing 11th. Had proper officiating been present then we'd be (a rough guess) 6 points clear of it and would have scored more goals through penalties etc..

Thats IF we had managed to score them. The league table does not lie we are where we are for a reason

Lago
13-05-2014, 12:43 PM
So Hibs are to blame for the howling errors by referees? Such as the chopped-off goal in the last away derby..
Still convinced to this day Hibs would have gone on to win if the goal had not been chocked off.

Paisley Hibby
13-05-2014, 12:44 PM
From my own recollection, I can't remember us having such a solid series of: stonewall penalties being rejected, goals being chopped off, rebounds from blocks falling to opposition defenders rather than our players, hitting the woodwork, hitting the woodwork or an unbelievable save landing at one of their players, and lastly, the sheer amount of time wasting teams do against us to break our rhythm which has, all season, went unpunished.

Killie timewasting in the first half when we were on top. I remember their left-back (in the first half), for a long throw-in, went for walkies and rather than getting a booking just got told to hurry it up. Their goalkeeper did the same.

I cannot remember such a barren run of referee decisions in our favour. Such an horrendous amount of timewasting going unpunished and woodwork and rebounds not falling for us.

We've been atrocious but this hasn't helped!

Sorry but this smacks of desperation. I'm sure every other club will have their own bad luck stories. The real shocker is that since January we've been by miles the worst team in the Premiership and that's it really.

KeithTheHibby
13-05-2014, 12:47 PM
Since the Aberdeen game away in January we have been utter gash. The last few games I will admit we have been unlucky when it comes to not getting the breaks in the opposition box. What about the previous 15 games? Some of these games failed to see us create any chances and very little attempts at goal.

The last few games we have been unlucky, yes, however prior to that we were honking without a doubt.

Keith_M
13-05-2014, 12:49 PM
I totally agree with the OP, I remember thinking how unlucky we were seven times at home to Malmö when the ball mysteriously entered our goals.

Damn that bad luck!

Nando™
13-05-2014, 12:55 PM
Thats IF we had managed to score them. The league table does not lie we are where we are for a reason

We're here for two reasons: Being *****, and referees not giving us what we deserve.

Pretty much a stick-on that most of them would be scored, percentage of penalties scored for the vast majority of clubs is pretty high.

scuttle
13-05-2014, 01:12 PM
We're here for two reasons: Being *****, and referees not giving us what we deserve.

Pretty much a stick-on that most of them would be scored, percentage of penalties scored for the vast majority of clubs is pretty high.

As long as Collins never took them

BVB Hibs
13-05-2014, 02:15 PM
Not sure I buy this. Yeah, a few decisions haven't gone our way this year, that's fair enough, but these things always have a way of balancing themselves out. Referees are not to blame for a poor goalscoring record. The fact it comes up as an argument just outlines how poor a goalscoring record we have. Referees, in awarding penalties, probably contribute 5/6 goals a season per team, the fact that's a number we're worried about is laughable. Teams taking it slow and disrupting our rhythm isn't bad luck, it's them knowing exactly how they need to play against us to get us rattled and start making mistakes. The ball not falling to a Hibs player off a save or when coming off the woodwork usually comes down to a lack of anticipation by the players.

One feature of our play I've noticed recently is the sheer number of shots we seem to be taking that get nowhere near the goal. Everything seems to get blocked by an opposition defender. There's only ever one reason for something like that though, and it's that we're making the wrong decisions or not getting the ball to the play quickly enough, and when we do get it there the player spend too long humming and hawing to get a shot away. I overheard people in the ground saying it was unlucky the opposition always seemed to get a foot in the way, it's not unlucky, it's just that we're not good enough to beat a defence.

(((Fergus)))
13-05-2014, 02:22 PM
But terrible refereeing decisions throughout the season have contributed largely towards us finishing 11th. Had proper officiating been present then we'd be (a rough guess) 6 points clear of it and would have scored more goals through penalties etc..


You would have to honestly compared poor decisions against Hibs with poor decisions against everyone else. I bet supporters of most other teams could rustle up another 6 points due to bad refereeing.

Just having a quick look at stats, e.g. penalties awarded and conceded. Hibs only have 2 for and 4 against. Motherwell also have 2 for but 6 against.

Also note Hibs had third worst discipline after Thistle and yams.

Bronson
13-05-2014, 02:43 PM
I said this the other day, as much as we have been terrible, we have been bloody unlucky more often than not this season.

Nando™
13-05-2014, 02:52 PM
You would have to honestly compared poor decisions against Hibs with poor decisions against everyone else. I bet supporters of most other teams could rustle up another 6 points due to bad refereeing.

Just having a quick look at stats, e.g. penalties awarded and conceded. Hibs only have 2 for and 4 against. Motherwell also have 2 for but 6 against.

Also note Hibs had third worst discipline after Thistle and yams.

I'd be interested in how often the other teams are shafted as well, but nowhere have I read about a team getting *****ed over by officials than I have on here. Having seen some of the incidents myself I'd be very surprised if we weren't the worst done by this season by a considerable margin.

Michael
13-05-2014, 02:59 PM
Luck can be decisive in one or two games. But, the league table doesn't lie. If you finish 11th it means you're the 11th best team. We're in the playoffs on merit and merit alone.

Jones28
13-05-2014, 03:03 PM
I don't buy into this. You cannot have most of the game, fail to convert, and be so soft as to let the opposition go up the park and score against the run of play EVERY week, and put it down to luck.

100%, well said Fraz

Up The Bracket
13-05-2014, 03:11 PM
I can recall stonewall penalties being not given in several games

St Mirren (A): 0-0, foul on Collins
St Johnstone (H): 0-0, foul on Collins
St Mirren (H): 2-3, handball
Celtic (H): 0-4, score was 1-0 at the time, foul on Collins
Killie (H): 0-1, foul on Nelson
Hearts (A): 0-2, Forster goal wrongly disallowed a 1-0
Aberdeen (A): 0-1, foul on Heffernan at 0-0? (Although they should have had a penalty just after aswell)
Aberdeen (H): 0-2, foul on Collins at 1-0

Yes, granted, we've been awful this season and I'm not making excuses for the mess the club is in, but we have had next to no breaks this season.

Iggy Pope
13-05-2014, 03:15 PM
I totally agree with the OP, I remember thinking how unlucky we were seven times at home to Malmö when the ball mysteriously entered our goals.

Damn that bad luck!

Not part of the run the OP is referring to and all in all a tiresome response.

The Sea-gull
13-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Regular bad luck is usually only noticed when accompanied by regular poor performances and results. Play better you get better results and there is less"if only we got......", "if only that had gone in..........." and "if only the ref had/hadn't given that" etc.

clerriehibs
13-05-2014, 03:48 PM
It's easier for refs to be less than fair to teams already down on their luck, as we are, particularly so if you hate said club - ie craig thomson and us.

davhibby
13-05-2014, 03:49 PM
It is down to us and only us that we are in this position however I can remember quite a few big calls going against us and only the Nelson handball away at Aberdeen for us. We always get told these even out over the season so we must be in for plenty in these playoff games?

Islington Hibs
13-05-2014, 04:15 PM
We have clearly been poor, but I do also think we have been pretty unlucky too. Some very poor decisions, incredible saves and the post has cost us dear. Bottom line though our punchless attack has been our real undoing. I tend to agree however we are no worse than three or four of the other clubs at the bottom but that is not the sort of benchmark we shroud be aiming for.

dmc1875
13-05-2014, 05:12 PM
For the last few years we have had absolutely no luck in anything we do and been victim of some horrendous refereeing decisions.

I can think of too many to post from this season and last. Last season two decisions cost us top six (Penalty at Dundee Utd and Leighs goal against Hearts) this season there are many, particular highlights are the penalty decision v St Johnstone at home not given, same against St Mirren at home, Forsters 'goal'.

madhatter
13-05-2014, 05:37 PM
There does appear to be many who have misinterpreted my OP - I stated clearly "most disastrous run" and stated as a team we've not been good enough.

However, like someone who spends their entire life buying lottery tickets only to die without winning, we've had a similar run of stonewallers, leniency on opponents and blatant awful decisions (Forster's goal). And just like the individual trying to win the lottery, the players can religiously try their best and this wouldn't effect their luck. The only thing it would affect is their chances - i.e. more tickets bought, the better chances; the more time we hit the post; the more we can expect the ball to rebound to us or into the net. However, luck is not the same as increasing your chances - against Partick we increased our chances and did get a reward but did we deserve what we got? No, we deserved more...Luck would have it, we didn't get what we deserved.

Dismal play is evident but so is the kicking we are getting whilst we're down. I've seen other clubs getting a soft penalty which has turned their season around - they get 3pts and confidence returns...

So, once again, I'm not saying the players should not be performing better and should increase our chances. However, I do feel in the last 4-5 games especially, we've been unlucky.

Scouse Hibee
13-05-2014, 06:25 PM
You notice things that go against you more so when you are having a bad time and couldn't buy a result, that's the only link to our season and luck.

Gettin' Auld
13-05-2014, 06:37 PM
As the golfer Gary Player once said when his long putts usually dropping into the hole was put down to luck - "The more i practice, the luckier i get"

brog
13-05-2014, 07:30 PM
Arguably the worst decision of the season which impacted on Hibs was when St Mirren got a pen in last couple of minutes against Well when ball hit McManus in face. Saints hadn't looked like scoring but got another after the pen. The undeserved 3 points gave them huge impetus, put them level with us & we were their next opponents at Love St in first game after the split. If you add in the non pen at ER in the 3-2 game then that's a 6 point swing in those 2 games alone. FWIW the only wrong decision in our favour I can remember was Heff's offside goal vs Celtc.

Hibercelona
13-05-2014, 08:12 PM
A loser once said "i'm just unlucky".

Truth is, winners are equally as unlucky. They just don't let bad luck hold them back. They just keep digging deeper until they win.

Is it unlucky that we take our foot off the gas whenever we go a goal down?

McBHibee
13-05-2014, 09:33 PM
Apart from the usual "decisions even themselves out during the season" nonsense, have you noticed how much of a free ride the officials get from Hibs. Look at most other teams and you will see players crowding the ref anytime a decision goes against them. Liam Craig tries but is obviously no good at it. By the way I am still waiting for our 10-0 victory when the decisions do catch up!

Sir David Gray
13-05-2014, 09:45 PM
Failing to win any of our last thirteen games isn't unlucky.
Only scoring three goals in our last eight games isn't unlucky.
Only winning two games in four and a half months isn't unlucky.
Finishing with the lowest number of points won in the league isn't unlucky.
Scoring the fewest amount of goals in the entire country isn't unlucky.

We've not been unlucky this season, we've been crap.

The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off.

majorhibs
13-05-2014, 09:51 PM
Yeah yeah we are unlucky nobody likes us decisions go against us blah No totally incompetent person with NO football intelligence picking totally incompetent managers & assistants, sorry too much heads in the sands here this has gone on & repeated so many times, calderwood Fenlon butcher 3 on the bounce, say no more!

NadeAteMyLunch!
13-05-2014, 10:23 PM
I've never known a season like this for bad luck and shocking refereeing decisions. It's clear that things do not always even themselves out over a season. Not even close.

NAE NOOKIE
13-05-2014, 10:52 PM
The table doesn't lie .......... we have been rank. Aye theres been crap decisions and bad luck too, but its the lack of goals .... the lack of goals I tells ye.

If we do go down this will be the perfect rubbish season:

Humped by Malmo ........ worst Euro aggregate in Scottish football history

Knocked out the League cup at home by the Yams

Knocked out of the Scottish cup at home by a mid table Championship team

Relegated by a team from the Championship who will possibly have played 6 games in 3 weeks?

The Green Goblin
13-05-2014, 11:04 PM
There's no doubt we've been on the end of some criminal decisions, but I think we should at least have been able to guarantee our own spfl safety in spite of them.

As for bad decisions costing you, well, Aberdeen's keeper gets Jacki Channed at a crossed ball and in the 92nd minute, Motherwell steal 2nd place. Aberdeen had their chances to guarantee 2nd place and didn't do it. As Michael kind of said, you have to make sure of it yourself and not be in a position where these things affect you so much, because things like this, with the standard of refereeing in the spfl, will always happen.

madhatter
13-05-2014, 11:18 PM
I say once again:

I, in no way, blamed where we are on the unlucky side of things - I was merely stating we've not had the "rub of the green" during another inept season.

So, please everyone who jumps on this or any other thread to vent steam regarding how bad we've been and say stuff like "The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off.", please chill out and read and think logically. We are all hurting and we all, almost without fail, know how bad we've been. We've known this was on the cards 2 years ago and realising it clearly hasn't helped. It may help that players realise the predicament but as far as us fans go, we may as well talk about a seagull, that grew up in the local area, being signed up for next season. It'd make no difference, as I highly doubt Petrie would stretch to paying the seagull 2 loafs a year :greengrin It's similar to being a backseat passenger in a car - if the driver takes the car straight into the wall. You may have realised; it may have been too late, you may have dithered with alerting the driver, you may have realised the oncoming and done nothing. These players, this management team, this board and the club are the driver and they should have realised. We can simply fill the tank (pump money into club as best we can). We can help with the map (vision) but ultimately if they choose to take a right (failure), when we clearly realised it should have been a left (success)...

In all seriousness, outside of supporting the team on Saturdays, do you really think an engrained "We're ****, quicker we realise this the better" is helping anyone? All I see it doing is possibly alienating fans from the forum through complete lack of anything more than a high percentage of whines (myself being the culprit for some of these as well right enough :rolleyes:). Another being worse, people turn their back on the club because it is in tatters (as we are all fully aware of, I might add), and instead of trying to stay positive and force changes through, 70%+ just seem to want to say "We're ****, sack the manager!".

Opinions are fine obviously but this incessant negativity (resembles hijacking) is getting tiresome. "Most disastrous run - most unlucky as well?" and we get to "The quicker we realise we're ****, the better!". Way to stay positive guys! Especially since I already suggested we were "disastrous" anyway so why bypass the question of "unlucky" and go in for the kill? This is your club btw, not someone elses. Lay of it once in a while guys!

:flag:

Hibernia&Alba
13-05-2014, 11:47 PM
We've had some bad luck certainly. When you're struggling luck seems to desert you, but our failure to win in three months is for the most part due to our being terrible.

matty_f
14-05-2014, 12:41 AM
It's unlucky to have had Hanlon, Thomson, Robertson, and Heffernan injured all at the same time.

The Green Goblin
14-05-2014, 12:48 AM
I say once again:

I, in no way, blamed where we are on the unlucky side of things - I was merely stating we've not had the "rub of the green" during another inept season.

So, please everyone who jumps on this or any other thread to vent steam regarding how bad we've been and say stuff like "The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off.", please chill out and read and think logically. We are all hurting and we all, almost without fail, know how bad we've been. We've known this was on the cards 2 years ago and realising it clearly hasn't helped. It may help that players realise the predicament but as far as us fans go, we may as well talk about a seagull, that grew up in the local area, being signed up for next season. It'd make no difference, as I highly doubt Petrie would stretch to paying the seagull 2 loafs a year :greengrin It's similar to being a backseat passenger in a car - if the driver takes the car straight into the wall. You may have realised; it may have been too late, you may have dithered with alerting the driver, you may have realised the oncoming and done nothing. These players, this management team, this board and the club are the driver and they should have realised. We can simply fill the tank (pump money into club as best we can). We can help with the map (vision) but ultimately if they choose to take a right (failure), when we clearly realised it should have been a left (success)...

In all seriousness, outside of supporting the team on Saturdays, do you really think an engrained "We're ****, quicker we realise this the better" is helping anyone? All I see it doing is possibly alienating fans from the forum through complete lack of anything more than a high percentage of whines (myself being the culprit for some of these as well right enough :rolleyes:). Another being worse, people turn their back on the club because it is in tatters (as we are all fully aware of, I might add), and instead of trying to stay positive and force changes through, 70%+ just seem to want to say "We're ****, sack the manager!".

Opinions are fine obviously but this incessant negativity (resembles hijacking) is getting tiresome. "Most disastrous run - most unlucky as well?" and we get to "The quicker we realise we're ****, the better!". Way to stay positive guys! Especially since I already suggested we were "disastrous" anyway so why bypass the question of "unlucky" and go in for the kill? This is your club btw, not someone elses. Lay of it once in a while guys!

:flag:

You started the thread though. You posted about both ideas: worst run AND the idea that we have been unlucky, and you've had replies debating both. But now (especially in that very odd last paragraph) you are having a go at an exchange of views which you instigated? I don't get that. It doesn't make sense at all.

madhatter
14-05-2014, 07:12 AM
You started the thread though. You posted about both ideas: worst run AND the idea that we have been unlucky, and you've had replies debating both. But now (especially in that very odd last paragraph) you are having a go at an exchange of views which you instigated? I don't get that. It doesn't make sense at all.

One was a statement - which from what I can see from this, and other threads, people had already pretty much reached a consensus on. I merely put that statement in to try to detract from the usual "we're ****, wake up and smell the ****" type response. I then followed that up with a hyphon and, the juicy part,the actual question. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, aren't you. Put it in to appease the negativity and attempt to bypass that to another debate. If I hadn't put that statement we still would have ended up here.

I actually think having a go at the negativity is just. It might be viewed as odd amongst fellow Hibs fans, mainly because we all like to be negative. However, I give up as quite clearly these are deemed suitable exchanges of views on a thread trying to instigate a positive debate:

"We've not been unlucky this season, we've been crap." - We've been unlucky and crap.

"The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off." - We all realise we've been crap, that wasn't the debate. I asked about being unlucky...

"sorry too much heads in the sands here" - My head is firmly out of the sand.

"I totally agree with the OP, I remember thinking how unlucky we were seven times at home to Malmö when the ball mysteriously entered our goals." - sarcasm and humour about the biggest defeat suffered by a Scottish team in Europe hardly relates to this debate at all and would be better placed on Keekback (we don't need to have other fans slag us, we do it ourselves).

Exchange of views fair enough. Relentless, blatant, negativity towards own club is beyond this. Check the attitude of most posts in threads like these - it is sad to read. So negative.

Steve20
14-05-2014, 07:28 AM
Failing to win any of our last thirteen games isn't unlucky.
Only scoring three goals in our last eight games isn't unlucky.
Only winning two games in four and a half months isn't unlucky.
Finishing with the lowest number of points won in the league isn't unlucky.
Scoring the fewest amount of goals in the entire country isn't unlucky.
.


These are the reasons we are getting relegated. Nothing to do with luck.

California-Hibs
14-05-2014, 07:57 AM
These are the reasons we are getting relegated. Nothing to do with luck.

However, we won't be getting relegated.

Captain Trips
14-05-2014, 08:39 AM
Failing to win any of our last thirteen games isn't unlucky.
Only scoring three goals in our last eight games isn't unlucky.
Only winning two games in four and a half months isn't unlucky.
Finishing with the lowest number of points won in the league isn't unlucky.
Scoring the fewest amount of goals in the entire country isn't unlucky.

We've not been unlucky this season, we've been crap.

The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off.

Correct. We as a team were in control of this. Have we had bad decisions yes but what about St Mirren. Killie etc do people on here follow there games closely enough to know if Killie were denied a clear penalty v Dundee Utd etc etc.

Keith_M
14-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Not part of the run the OP is referring to and all in all a tiresome response.


I know it wasn't, but I find this 'bad luck' talk more than a bit tiresome myself.

erin go bragh
14-05-2014, 12:02 PM
Well we were unlucky to have a good goal wrongly chopped off at the pbs . Had the goal stood we would have been level and whos to say we wouldnt have won .
How many stone wall pens have we been denied ?
I can think of 3 or 4 . Yes we have been tom kite but for 3 poonts we would have been safe . So i agree with the op , we have been unlucky . And we have been tom kite .

Ggtth

Smartie
14-05-2014, 12:32 PM
I know it's a different debate but elsewhere there has been a lot of talk about Butcher vs Fenlon and quotes used to criticise Butcher such as "at least Pat had us 5th when he left us" or "at least Pat knew how to get this side to win".

Remembering back to Pat's time and that away win at Partick, I've never known a Hibs win to be so negatively received on here, and rightly so. We were minging that night, defended reasonably well in places but rode our luck and a combination of their poor finishing, good goalkeeping from Ben and us taking our chance when it came meant that we won that game. From there we could have gone in 2 directions - we build on the good fortune and start playing better or we get found out and are punished for being pish. Unfortunately it was the latter and to be honest it was no real surprise.

On general play we were lucky to be fifth and had a few breaks earlier in the season. On balance we probably deserve to be higher than 11th but life's not fair and we are where we are.

A few more decisions have gone against us than for us and we have had bad injuries to key players in key positions at key times. But the main reason that we are where we are is that over the season we simply haven't been good enough, end of story.

I look forward to getting a Hibs team on the park that dominates possession, creates CLEAR CUT chances (not scrambles in the box through playing percentage balls) and plays the game in the opposition half and not defending in our own. I bet we'll be a damn sight luckier when we do that.

Captain Trips
14-05-2014, 02:05 PM
Well we were unlucky to have a good goal wrongly chopped off at the pbs . Had the goal stood we would have been level and whos to say we wouldnt have won .
How many stone wall pens have we been denied ?
I can think of 3 or 4 . Yes we have been tom kite but for 3 poonts we would have been safe . So i agree with the op , we have been unlucky . And we have been tom kite .

Ggtth

Yes we would have more points if we had got certain decisions. The point remains can all 11 other clubs say the same that they could have got more points if not for ref/linesman I bet they can and have.

patlowe
14-05-2014, 02:37 PM
I know it's a different debate but elsewhere there has been a lot of talk about Butcher vs Fenlon and quotes used to criticise Butcher such as "at least Pat had us 5th when he left us" or "at least Pat knew how to get this side to win".

Remembering back to Pat's time and that away win at Partick, I've never known a Hibs win to be so negatively received on here, and rightly so. We were minging that night, defended reasonably well in places but rode our luck and a combination of their poor finishing, good goalkeeping from Ben and us taking our chance when it came meant that we won that game. From there we could have gone in 2 directions - we build on the good fortune and start playing better or we get found out and are punished for being pish. Unfortunately it was the latter and to be honest it was no real surprise.

On general play we were lucky to be fifth and had a few breaks earlier in the season. On balance we probably deserve to be higher than 11th but life's not fair and we are where we are.

A few more decisions have gone against us than for us and we have had bad injuries to key players in key positions at key times. But the main reason that we are where we are is that over the season we simply haven't been good enough, end of story.

I look forward to getting a Hibs team on the park that dominates possession, creates CLEAR CUT chances (not scrambles in the box through playing percentage balls) and plays the game in the opposition half and not defending in our own. I bet we'll be a damn sight luckier when we do that.

100% agree with all of that, apart from the bit in bold. I actually think we have been the worst team in the league this season. Sloppy in defence, totally lacking in creativity and composure in midfield, and no cutting edge upfront. I'm not sure you could say all of that about any other team, despite how poor your St Mirrens, Ross Countys, Kilmarnocks and Hearts pre-March were.

I really hate to say it but if we're talking luck, then I think we'll need a fair chunk to overcome Falkirk or Hamilton.

The Green Goblin
14-05-2014, 03:21 PM
One was a statement - which from what I can see from this, and other threads, people had already pretty much reached a consensus on. I merely put that statement in to try to detract from the usual "we're ****, wake up and smell the ****" type response. I then followed that up with a hyphon and, the juicy part,the actual question. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, aren't you. Put it in to appease the negativity and attempt to bypass that to another debate. If I hadn't put that statement we still would have ended up here.

I actually think having a go at the negativity is just. It might be viewed as odd amongst fellow Hibs fans, mainly because we all like to be negative. However, I give up as quite clearly these are deemed suitable exchanges of views on a thread trying to instigate a positive debate:

"We've not been unlucky this season, we've been crap." - We've been unlucky and crap.

"The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off." - We all realise we've been crap, that wasn't the debate. I asked about being unlucky...

"sorry too much heads in the sands here" - My head is firmly out of the sand.

"I totally agree with the OP, I remember thinking how unlucky we were seven times at home to Malmö when the ball mysteriously entered our goals." - sarcasm and humour about the biggest defeat suffered by a Scottish team in Europe hardly relates to this debate at all and would be better placed on Keekback (we don't need to have other fans slag us, we do it ourselves).

Exchange of views fair enough. Relentless, blatant, negativity towards own club is beyond this. Check the attitude of most posts in threads like these - it is sad to read. So negative.

Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from. I think a lot of what comes across as negativity is also sheer frustration at how things are now and how they have been for a while, and that frustration will always come out on forums like this. It's also much easier to be positive when there is something to be positive about, and that's not something we have had in a good while now. It's probably worth bearing in mind that a lot of the posters who share their frustrations on here will also be there supporting the team in the playoffs, desperate, as we all are, to see us win and stay up. Maybe a blessing that some of it gets an outlet on here rather than all at once at the game, when it probably won't help or achieve anything?

chuckberry
14-05-2014, 03:30 PM
I can recall stonewall penalties being not given in several games

St Mirren (A): 0-0, foul on Collins
St Johnstone (H): 0-0, foul on Collins
St Mirren (H): 2-3, handball
Celtic (H): 0-4, score was 1-0 at the time, foul on Collins
Killie (H): 0-1, foul on Nelson
Hearts (A): 0-2, Forster goal wrongly disallowed a 1-0
Aberdeen (A): 0-1, foul on Heffernan at 0-0? (Although they should have had a penalty just after aswell)
Aberdeen (H): 0-2, foul on Collins at 1-0

Yes, granted, we've been awful this season and I'm not making excuses for the mess the club is in, but we have had next to no breaks this season.

:taxi

madhatter
14-05-2014, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from. I think a lot of what comes across as negativity is also sheer frustration at how things are now and how they have been for a while, and that frustration will always come out on forums like this. It's also much easier to be positive when there is something to be positive about, and that's not something we have had in a good while now. It's probably worth bearing in mind that a lot of the posters who share their frustrations on here will also be there supporting the team in the playoffs, desperate, as we all are, to see us win and stay up. Maybe a blessing that some of it gets an outlet on here rather than all at once at the game, when it probably won't help or achieve anything?


Yeah, I know -we're all very frustrated and this probably is a better vehicle for venting such rage. However, I'm of the opinion that these players are well paid and should rightly expect heavy criticism on the field and negativity in the stands at the moment. I'd like this not to be the case but sadly, be it on their head and all that...

I'm just very worried that, with the absolute failure on the pitch followed by constant (justifiable) negativity/frustration on here or other forums, we seriously run the risk of losing fans at an alarming rate. We are already a very difficult club to support as it is. Maybe I'm exaggerating, not sure. Time will tell.

Thanks for your response and lets all just get through the playoffs and wake up from this nightmare.

Sir David Gray
14-05-2014, 08:16 PM
I say once again:

I, in no way, blamed where we are on the unlucky side of things - I was merely stating we've not had the "rub of the green" during another inept season.

So, please everyone who jumps on this or any other thread to vent steam regarding how bad we've been and say stuff like "The quicker we realise this, the more chance we might have of doing something in the play off.", please chill out and read and think logically. We are all hurting and we all, almost without fail, know how bad we've been. We've known this was on the cards 2 years ago and realising it clearly hasn't helped. It may help that players realise the predicament but as far as us fans go, we may as well talk about a seagull, that grew up in the local area, being signed up for next season. It'd make no difference, as I highly doubt Petrie would stretch to paying the seagull 2 loafs a year :greengrin It's similar to being a backseat passenger in a car - if the driver takes the car straight into the wall. You may have realised; it may have been too late, you may have dithered with alerting the driver, you may have realised the oncoming and done nothing. These players, this management team, this board and the club are the driver and they should have realised. We can simply fill the tank (pump money into club as best we can). We can help with the map (vision) but ultimately if they choose to take a right (failure), when we clearly realised it should have been a left (success)...

In all seriousness, outside of supporting the team on Saturdays, do you really think an engrained "We're ****, quicker we realise this the better" is helping anyone? All I see it doing is possibly alienating fans from the forum through complete lack of anything more than a high percentage of whines (myself being the culprit for some of these as well right enough :rolleyes:). Another being worse, people turn their back on the club because it is in tatters (as we are all fully aware of, I might add), and instead of trying to stay positive and force changes through, 70%+ just seem to want to say "We're ****, sack the manager!".

Opinions are fine obviously but this incessant negativity (resembles hijacking) is getting tiresome. "Most disastrous run - most unlucky as well?" and we get to "The quicker we realise we're ****, the better!". Way to stay positive guys! Especially since I already suggested we were "disastrous" anyway so why bypass the question of "unlucky" and go in for the kill? This is your club btw, not someone elses. Lay of it once in a while guys!

:flag:

Since most of that was aimed in response to my post then I feel I should reply.

I personally think it does us no favours at all to talk about our lack of luck when we've just finished 11th in the league and now have 180 minutes to try and save our Premiership status.

I try to avoid being overly critical on too many threads at the moment and I certainly can't stand the amount of non-Hibs threads that have turned into a Hibs bashing exercise lately. However I feel that to try mentioning luck as being one of the reasons why we're in this position isn't helpful.

For the last few months, I have been watching a team that deserves to be where we are at the moment. Of course we can pick out particular moments from certain matches where refereeing decisions have gone against us etc but I'm sure if you asked fans of any team then you would get similar examples of bad luck.

We need to focus on those two games coming up and make sure that we do the job that is required to get out of this mess and retain our Premiership status. Feeling sorry for ourselves because of some bad luck isn't going to help.

Time to roll the sleeves up and make sure that everyone knows in these two games which team is the Premiership club.

matty_f
15-05-2014, 11:33 AM
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-under-achievers-are-also-soldiers-of-misfortune-1-3411932

The article here is pretty much spot on, IMHO.

The Green Goblin
15-05-2014, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I know -we're all very frustrated and this probably is a better vehicle for venting such rage. However, I'm of the opinion that these players are well paid and should rightly expect heavy criticism on the field and negativity in the stands at the moment. I'd like this not to be the case but sadly, be it on their head and all that...

I'm just very worried that, with the absolute failure on the pitch followed by constant (justifiable) negativity/frustration on here or other forums, we seriously run the risk of losing fans at an alarming rate. We are already a very difficult club to support as it is. Maybe I'm exaggerating, not sure. Time will tell.

Thanks for your response and lets all just get through the playoffs and wake up from this nightmare.

Not sure I`d completely agree with the way you put that mh. :wink:

It`s not yet "absolute failure". Not far off regarding this season, but not there quite yet.

I think a lot of fans have already left. Sort out the team and many will return.

I don`t think we are a difficult club to support. We`re a great club, just not on the pitch right now, but we have had our moments. Hopefully the problems with the team will finally be addressed one way or another.