Parallels with Alex Miller and jim Duffy

[fife hfc]

I can't help thinking this season is like the season when everybody wanted the boring Alex miller (swap for fenlon) out as we were going nowhere and the football was dire. Under miller we would not have been relegated but the football was becoming sterile, as I believe is the case with Fenlon. We got Duffy held in high regard by the media but never really had a fantastic record ( Terry Butcher). A new beginning and everybody looking forward to bright new future. Well we ended up in the relegation play off and survived (can history repeat itself) but it only delayed the inevitable. To me this is too much of a similarity and I hope to hell it does not end in relegation.

[eastterrace]

I can't help thinking this season is like the season when everybody wanted the boring Alex miller (swap for fenlon) out as we were going nowhere and the football was dire. Under miller we would not have been relegated but the football was becoming sterile, as I believe is the case with Fenlon. We got Duffy held in high regard by the media but never really had a fantastic record ( Terry Butcher). A new beginning and everybody looking forward to bright new future. Well we ended up in the relegation play off and survived (can history repeat itself) but it only delayed the inevitable. To me this is too much of a similarity and I hope to hell it does not end in relegation.

sure jocky scott took over from miller, then duffy came after him.

[500miles]

sure jocky scott took over from miller, then duffy came after him.

Jocky was just a caretaker manager really.

[eastterrace]

Jocky was just a caretaker manager really.

13 matches , so about a 1/3 of a season. looked back his record won 3 games so probably why he didnt get the job permanent.mind his first game against rangers when we won 2-1

[Peevemor]

Jocky was just a caretaker manager really.

Yep, although he was in with a shout for the job and was even allowed to buy players. Strange one!

[mca]

Can mind of Hibs.T.V - and chic charnley saying how sorry he felt for the manager (Duffy)- and then Yogi - running nude behind them... tell me im wrong.. :greengrin

[IberianHibernian]

I can't help thinking this season is like the season when everybody wanted the boring Alex miller (swap for fenlon) out as we were going nowhere and the football was dire. Under miller we would not have been relegated but the football was becoming sterile, as I believe is the case with Fenlon. We got Duffy held in high regard by the media but never really had a fantastic record ( Terry Butcher). A new beginning and everybody looking forward to bright new future. Well we ended up in the relegation play off and survived (can history repeat itself) but it only delayed the inevitable. To me this is too much of a similarity and I hope to hell it does not end in relegation.Interesting post . Miller was a very unpopular appointment and was kept on for many years because we couldn`t afford to sack him ( obviously in 10 years there were some good moments but in general he was a failure and caused many Hibs fans to lose contact with club ) . Duffy had a good record for a young manager and we did play some good football despite bad results . Unfair to compare Fenlon ( 2 cup finals etc ) with Miller ( 10 years and cup losses at Clydebank etc no SC final ) . Anyway , what is a good manager ? Someone like Hughes or Fenlon who took us to Europe or....?

[Peevemor]

Interesting post . Miller was a very unpopular appointment and was kept on for many years because we couldn`t afford to sack him ( obviously in 10 years there were some good moments but in general he was a failure and caused many Hibs fans to lose contact with club ) . Duffy had a good record for a young manager and we did play some good football despite bad results . Unfair to compare Fenlon ( 2 cup finals etc ) with Miller ( 10 years and cup losses at Clydebank etc no SC final ) . Anyway , what is a good manager ? Someone like Hughes or Fenlon who took us to Europe or....?

It wasn't about money. Dougie Crombe was in tears when Miller was emptied, referring to him as "one of the family".

[eastterrace]

It wasn't about money. Dougie Crombe was in tears when Miller was emptied, referring to him as "one of the family".

miller was emptied because his dismal derby record, it was abysmal. he thought to much into how to stop hearts instead of trying to win these games imo.

[Stevie Reid]

FWIW, Miller's cup record was very good - off the top of my head I can think of three Scottish Cup semi finals that we got to, along with the two league cup finals, with the one win. I may be wrong, but I also think that we only lost once to lower league opposition (Killie league cup 1992) in his time with us.

[baggio70]

I remember under millar, every corner against us we would have 11 men in the box. We would win the corner and usually hoof it back up to the half way line. Where the opposition would take there time and send it back in again.

[eastterrace]

I remember under millar, every corner against us we would have 11 men in the box. We would win the corner and usually hoof it back up to the half way line. Where the opposition would take there time and send it back in again.

yes he even had micky wier back at corners. the guy was too deep a thinker , instead of playing to our strengths he would always try and stop the opposition.

[HibbyAndy]

13 matches , so about a 1/3 of a season. looked back his record won 3 games so probably why he didnt get the job permanent.mind his first game against rangers when we won 2-1


Laudrup missed a penalty...And because it was Laudrup the ref made up his own rules and made him take it again...Leighton saved it again.

GIFRUY Laudrup

[IberianHibernian]

FWIW, Miller's cup record was very good - off the top of my head I can think of three Scottish Cup semi finals that we got to, along with the two league cup finals, with the one win. I may be wrong, but I also think that we only lost once to lower league opposition (Killie league cup 1992) in his time with us.2 League Cup finals and no SC finals in 10 years is a good record ?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Ah Miller. Who can forget his "jump the shark" moment in signing Wilkins...

I was not-so-young child of the Miller generation attending my first game in 87/88.

Apart from the Hearts I went into games thinking we wouldn't lose (doesn't mean I thought we'd win). His defences (including his approach to corner kicks) were usually sound and Rangers 7-0 and a fee derbies aside we rarely got tanked.

His derby record was abysmal I'd like a copy of that chapter in his memoirs, the takeover and the Skol cup but I'd leave the rest.

Eternally grateful for the dignity and professionalism he showed during those dark days but as others said 10 yrs at the helm meant bed got stale and run out of ideas - Wilkins and Bannon FFS!

If nothing lease tho Miller was consistent - the wrong kind but consistent. He did also have some surprisingly good players and teams and his cup record is decent.

But Miller equating to Fenlon? Well Miller had money to spend and generally spent it wisely (selling one decent Wright for another excellent one). Disparity on Duration of stat also renders the comparison void - look at the number of ex-Hibs players from the Miller era that are now in management I'd bet very few of PFs journeymen end up as managers...

So not so hot on the parallels for me.

Terry and Duffy? Is Terry not less of a punt having managed somewhat successfully in the top-flight?

I dunno I'm rubbish at these comparisons ;)
cheers
vP

[eastterrace]

Laudrup missed a penalty...And because it was Laudrup the ref made up his own rules and made him take it again...Leighton saved it again.

GIFRUY Laudrup

yes mind it well, as i was just behind the rangers dugout and davie dodds started fist pumping when it was to be re taken, his face was a picture when it was saved again ( not a pretty sight may i add)

[HibbyAndy]

yes mind it well, as i was just behind the rangers dugout and davie dodds started fist pumping when it was to be re taken, his face was a picture when it was saved again ( not a pretty sight may i add)

Davie Dodds eh...So ugly the tide woodnae take him oot

[Stevie Reid]

2 League Cup finals and no SC finals in 10 years is a good record ?

Two league cup finals and three SC semi finals in ten years is very good in my book.

[fife hfc]

I'm talking about how everybody wanted rid of a manager who was not seen as playing good football but had teams who would never end up relegated. they get replaced by a manager viewed as playing good football and liked by the media and we all know what happened with duffy. I just hope history does not repeat itself.

[eastterrace]

I'm talking about how everybody wanted rid of a manager who was not seen as playing good football but had teams who would never end up relegated. they get replaced by a manager viewed as playing good football and liked by the media and we all know what happened with duffy. I just hope history does not repeat itself.

we were on the slide with miller, but i get where your coming from with the comparisons.

[heretoday]

Yep, although he was in with a shout for the job and was even allowed to buy players. Strange one!
But those were the days before the transfer deadline. Easier to patch up the team at short notice. That's been TBs problem partly.

[Peevemor]

But those were the days before the transfer deadline. Easier to patch up the team at short notice. That's been TBs problem partly.

Yeah I know, but even then it was unusual for a caretaker manager to sign players (Yogi & Rab Shannon IIRC).

[IberianHibernian]

Two league cup finals and three SC semi finals in ten years is very good in my book.We`ve been in 2 LC finals ( also winning one ) and reached 2 SC finals ( plus 1 or 2 more semis ? ) in last 10 years but got rid of managers quickly .

[Stevie Reid]

We`ve been in 2 LC finals ( also winning one ) and reached 2 SC finals ( plus 1 or 2 more semis ? ) in last 10 years but got rid of managers quickly .

True, but whilst some of our managers in the last ten years had bad cup results that certainly didn't help their cause, it wasn't cup progress - or lack of - that resulted in their respective departures.

Definitely a major factor in Fenlon's case though - he probably won more cup ties than Mixu, Yogi and Calderwood put together, but it was a handful of cup defeats that were his most damaging results (5-1, 7-0, 0-1 Hearts LC) that did for him.

Getting to the latter stages of the Scotttish Cup and improving our league position were two things that would have been asked of him and he certainly delivered on that front - the uninspiring football may have been put up with for longer by many had it not been for such historic results (in the worst possible sense), as our league form and points total last season was a massive improvement. Even this year our first quarter form and points per game average had us on track for 52 points, one more than last year.

Anyway, I digress - under Miller we competed in the last four (or better) of the cups on average every two years. I consider that a decent return. Before Fenlon's arrival we hadn't had a day out in 5 years - we then had four trips to Hampden in 14 months. Sadly, he will forever be remembered for one of them in particular.

[heretoday]

Yeah I know, but even then it was unusual for a caretaker manager to sign players (Yogi & Rab Shannon IIRC).

Rab Shannon. I wish you hadn't mentioned that name.

[ekhibee]

Ah Miller. Who can forget his "jump the shark" moment in signing Wilkins...

I was not-so-young child of the Miller generation attending my first game in 87/88.

Apart from the Hearts I went into games thinking we wouldn't lose (doesn't mean I thought we'd win). His defences (including his approach to corner kicks) were usually sound and Rangers 7-0 and a fee derbies aside we rarely got tanked.

His derby record was abysmal I'd like a copy of that chapter in his memoirs, the takeover and the Skol cup but I'd leave the rest.

Eternally grateful for the dignity and professionalism he showed during those dark days but as others said 10 yrs at the helm meant bed got stale and run out of ideas - Wilkins and Bannon FFS!

If nothing lease tho Miller was consistent - the wrong kind but consistent. He did also have some surprisingly good players and teams and his cup record is decent.

But Miller equating to Fenlon? Well Miller had money to spend and generally spent it wisely (selling one decent Wright for another excellent one). Disparity on Duration of stat also renders the comparison void - look at the number of ex-Hibs players from the Miller era that are now in management I'd bet very few of PFs journeymen end up as managers...

So not so hot on the parallels for me.

Terry and Duffy? Is Terry not less of a punt having managed somewhat successfully in the top-flight?

I dunno I'm rubbish at these comparisons ;)
cheers
vP
I would say Miller ties with Bertie Auld as the most boring manager we've had in my lifetime. His tactics against Hearts were really frustrating, and he never seemed to change them. He did bring in 1 or 2 good players but there were some really bad ones too. I totally agree with you about Wilkins by the way, he was absolutely dreadful. Miller's sons were both pish too.

[Captain Trips]

Laudrup missed a penalty...And because it was Laudrup the ref made up his own rules and made him take it again...Leighton saved it again.

GIFRUY Laudrup

Now that was an afternoon Andy.

[Captain Trips]

yes mind it well, as i was just behind the rangers dugout and davie dodds started fist pumping when it was to be re taken, his face was a picture when it was saved again ( not a pretty sight may i add)

Davie Dodds and face was a picture in same sentence. Now that's gotta be a first.