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Nailrod
27-04-2014, 02:28 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.

Sir David Gray
27-04-2014, 02:30 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.

Hear hear.

Stax
27-04-2014, 02:33 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.
Excellent post.

Hibercelona
27-04-2014, 02:36 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.

Nail on head Nailrod. :agree:

Islington Hibs
27-04-2014, 02:39 PM
Excellent post.


Great post. The issue is psychological and the root lies with the Chairman (and perhaps the owner although he is a proven winner in other fields). We have got used to defeat and accept it. Butcher has not worked so far, although it is far to soon to change that horse. The root cause is our smug board. What ever happens, stay up, or go down, it is time for Petrie to resign.

Famous Fiver
27-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Nail rod to what, Nailrod? Suggestions on a postcard...........

andyf5
27-04-2014, 02:52 PM
Agree with this. Now the current board have everything in place they can step asdide with honour. We need new leadership passionate about football in the same vein as so many clubs above us in the league. But who are the candidates for the job?

Nailrod
27-04-2014, 03:53 PM
This is what I mean by 'absence of leadership qualities':

It is a savage, savage indictment of the way our club has been run that after taking in £16 million in transfer fees to invest in the club, instead of being up towards the top of the league and challenging for the cups, we are looking at seven years of miserable failure, we have just been through a season in which we have been humiliated four times by the worst Hearts team in fifty years, and we are now staring at relegation from the worst Scottish top division in the history of football.

It wasn't shortage of money that caused our problems, but we sure as hell are going to need money to dig our way out of them. I'm tired of reading posts on .net whimpering about how we have to 'live within our means' or we'll 'end up like Hearts'. Over the last two seasons and next, our 'means' will have taken a savage hit. How the hell are we going to improve the team by spending less money? With every year that passes performances get worse, more and more fans walk away in despair, and our 'means' continue to shrink.

So what is our great leader doing about it? Nothing, apparently. He sure as hell isn't going to put any money into the club, and neither, it appears, is STF. They appear to be quite comfortable with our ongoing spiral of failure.

What should he be doing about it? Well, instead of starting from the standpoint of "What are our means, and let's not go a penny outwith our means..." he could be starting from the standpoint of "What should our means be? What could our means be? What do I have to do to turn our potential means into our actual means?"

That's the way a leader would look at it. And we don't have a leader. A leader needs to be an inspiring figure who is a great communicator, and who finds creative solutions to long-standing problems. Our ruler has none of these qualities. Petrie is the type of person who makes an ideal second-in-command - a nitpicking bean counter who never takes a risk. People like Petrie should never be in charge. They don't know how to lead.

Paperboy
27-04-2014, 04:00 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today.

I blame you as you seem to be a jinx.

In all fairness you pretty much hit the nail on the head

Nailrod
27-04-2014, 04:00 PM
Agree with this. Now the current board have everything in place they can step asdide with honour. We need new leadership passionate about football in the same vein as so many clubs above us in the league. But who are the candidates for the job?The fact that you have to ask this question highlights the problem. Petrie has been in charge for the best part of twenty years, and what's the 'succession plan'?

Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. There's not a single person around the club of any stature whatsoever. That's what happens when you have an apparatchik running the show. He surrounds himself with mediocrity.

Nailrod
27-04-2014, 04:09 PM
I blame you as you seem to be a jinx.

In all fairness you pretty much hit the nail on the headNah, you're right. We scored after I left.

Carheenlea
27-04-2014, 05:08 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.

An excellent post :agree:

Islington Hibs
27-04-2014, 07:01 PM
This is what I mean by 'absence of leadership qualities':

It is a savage, savage indictment of the way our club has been run that after taking in £16 million in transfer fees to invest in the club, instead of being up towards the top of the league and challenging for the cups, we are looking at seven years of miserable failure, we have just been through a season in which we have been humiliated four times by the worst Hearts team in fifty years, and we are now staring at relegation from the worst Scottish top division in the history of football.

It wasn't shortage of money that caused our problems, but we sure as hell are going to need money to dig our way out of them. I'm tired of reading posts on .net whimpering about how we have to 'live within our means' or we'll 'end up like Hearts'. Over the last two seasons and next, our 'means' will have taken a savage hit. How the hell are we going to improve the team by spending less money? With every year that passes performances get worse, more and more fans walk away in despair, and our 'means' continue to shrink.

So what is our great leader doing about it? Nothing, apparently. He sure as hell isn't going to put any money into the club, and neither, it appears, is STF. They appear to be quite comfortable with our ongoing spiral of failure.

What should he be doing about it? Well, instead of starting from the standpoint of "What are our means, and let's not go a penny outwith our means..." he could be starting from the standpoint of "What should our means be? What could our means be? What do I have to do to turn our potential means into our actual means?"

That's the way a leader would look at it. And we don't have a leader. A leader needs to be an inspiring figure who is a great communicator, and who finds creative solutions to long-standing problems. Our ruler has none of these qualities. Petrie is the type of person who makes an ideal second-in-command - a nitpicking bean counter who never takes a risk. People like Petrie should never be in charge. They don't know how to lead.

Nailrod spot on. We have, and it is tedious to recant, one of the biggest supports in the country, the best stadium and infrastructure outside Glasgow and some balance sheet. Woopee. We have squandered those resources and act as frightened losers before a ball is kicked. Petrie is not up to the job. A lack of attention to detail. A lack of real desire. A lack of vision. Lots of short term fixes, bring someone new in and 'smart marketing.' Serious change is required. From what you have posted perhaps you should call Sir Tom?

Nakedmanoncrack
27-04-2014, 07:54 PM
This is what I mean by 'absence of leadership qualities':

It is a savage, savage indictment of the way our club has been run that after taking in £16 million in transfer fees to invest in the club, instead of being up towards the top of the league and challenging for the cups, we are looking at seven years of miserable failure, we have just been through a season in which we have been humiliated four times by the worst Hearts team in fifty years, and we are now staring at relegation from the worst Scottish top division in the history of football.

It wasn't shortage of money that caused our problems, but we sure as hell are going to need money to dig our way out of them. I'm tired of reading posts on .net whimpering about how we have to 'live within our means' or we'll 'end up like Hearts'. Over the last two seasons and next, our 'means' will have taken a savage hit. How the hell are we going to improve the team by spending less money? With every year that passes performances get worse, more and more fans walk away in despair, and our 'means' continue to shrink.

So what is our great leader doing about it? Nothing, apparently. He sure as hell isn't going to put any money into the club, and neither, it appears, is STF. They appear to be quite comfortable with our ongoing spiral of failure.

What should he be doing about it? Well, instead of starting from the standpoint of "What are our means, and let's not go a penny outwith our means..." he could be starting from the standpoint of "What should our means be? What could our means be? What do I have to do to turn our potential means into our actual means?"

That's the way a leader would look at it. And we don't have a leader. A leader needs to be an inspiring figure who is a great communicator, and who finds creative solutions to long-standing problems. Our ruler has none of these qualities. Petrie is the type of person who makes an ideal second-in-command - a nitpicking bean counter who never takes a risk. People like Petrie should never be in charge. They don't know how to lead.

:agree:
Some good points.

stevejordan
27-04-2014, 08:09 PM
The fact that you have to ask this question highlights the problem. Petrie has been in charge for the best part of twenty years, and what's the 'succession plan'?

Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. There's not a single person around the club of any stature whatsoever. That's what happens when you have an apparatchik running the show. He surrounds himself with mediocrity.

Petrie has a 5 year plan he has told us that he has this cunning plan at the last 3 AGMs 2 of which he sacked the Incumbent Manager he appointed the day before.

emerald green
27-04-2014, 08:13 PM
...which made my tally for the season Malmo at ER, first Hearts game at Tynie, Hearts in the league cup, and then today. Respect to the fans who are able to put up with that level of abject humiliation week after week after week...

There's a scientific phenomenon called the Rosenthal Effect, which demonstrates how expectations create performance. Where positive expectations create high performance, it's informally called the Pygmalion Effect; where negative expectations create low performance it's called the Golem Effect. An important aspect of it is that it's not limited to your own expectations - other people's expectations can have a direct effect on your ability to perform.

Hibs are obviously trapped in a vicious cycle of underperformance which has lasted for years. At the start of this season we had three or four very promising youngsters - Harris, Forster, Stanton, Hanlon - and a couple of solid pros - Thomson and Stevenson. We added five proven SPL performers - Robertson, Tudor-Jones, Craig, Heffernan and Vine - and we find ourselves staring into the abyss. Butcher looks like a rattled, frightened man. Right now whatever brave words are spoken before the game, in their hearts players, management, board and fans alike expect a beating, which duly materialises. Players come and go, managers come and go, nothing changes.

We need two things to break out of this cycle - money, and leadership. But money is only the secondary issue. It wasn't a shortage of money that created the problem - none of our rivals have had anything close to the £16 million we took in transfer fees between 2006 and 2011. The fundamental problem is a man at the head of the club who has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever.

:top marksWell said that man. I've been saying the same regarding lack of leadership at our club for years. Sorry you came all that way to be let down once again.

neil7908
27-04-2014, 08:16 PM
I agree with a lot of this but the money point is interesting. I'm honestly not sure that this is really the issue. Yes we have not invested the funds we received from our 'golden generation' as well as we could but the Scotsman had some interesting points in an article today focusing on Hibs and Gordon Strachan:

"Yet at that meeting late last year, the Easter Road club also announced their football wage bill was £3.9m. That can hardly be said to cast Hibs as desperately unambitious since only Aberdeen – with a £5.2m spend – devote more financial resources to competing for second-to-Celtic-status in the Premiership.

Moreover, last summer, courtesy of the £200,000 paid to Swindon Town for James Collins, Hibs were the only Premiership team outside of Celtic to pay a transfer fee.
Other clubs have made much smaller budgets work, with regulars in the top six – a status that has eluded the Easter Road club for four straight seasons – Motherwell, St Johnstone and Inverness Caledonian Thistle all operating with player wage bills not even half of that doled out by Hibs."

As the article points out, we have been outspending teams above us in the league by a considerable margin for many seasons now but it hasn't got us anywhere. This isn't just a one season things either - Motherwell, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone etc have been finishing above us regularly for years despite paying considerably less to their staff. That tells me money is not really the issue.

Somethings wrong with our club, countless managers and players have come and gone, millions spent but still we are actually getting steadily worse on the pitch. Maybe Petrie and Farmer should not be blamed but I can't see where else we can look for change?

emerald green
27-04-2014, 08:16 PM
This is what I mean by 'absence of leadership qualities':

It is a savage, savage indictment of the way our club has been run that after taking in £16 million in transfer fees to invest in the club, instead of being up towards the top of the league and challenging for the cups, we are looking at seven years of miserable failure, we have just been through a season in which we have been humiliated four times by the worst Hearts team in fifty years, and we are now staring at relegation from the worst Scottish top division in the history of football.

It wasn't shortage of money that caused our problems, but we sure as hell are going to need money to dig our way out of them. I'm tired of reading posts on .net whimpering about how we have to 'live within our means' or we'll 'end up like Hearts'. Over the last two seasons and next, our 'means' will have taken a savage hit. How the hell are we going to improve the team by spending less money? With every year that passes performances get worse, more and more fans walk away in despair, and our 'means' continue to shrink.

So what is our great leader doing about it? Nothing, apparently. He sure as hell isn't going to put any money into the club, and neither, it appears, is STF. They appear to be quite comfortable with our ongoing spiral of failure.

What should he be doing about it? Well, instead of starting from the standpoint of "What are our means, and let's not go a penny outwith our means..." he could be starting from the standpoint of "What should our means be? What could our means be? What do I have to do to turn our potential means into our actual means?"

That's the way a leader would look at it. And we don't have a leader. A leader needs to be an inspiring figure who is a great communicator, and who finds creative solutions to long-standing problems. Our ruler has none of these qualities. Petrie is the type of person who makes an ideal second-in-command - a nitpicking bean counter who never takes a risk. People like Petrie should never be in charge. They don't know how to lead.

I wish I had posted this. Brilliant post again sir. :aok:

Bobby's Cinema
27-04-2014, 08:38 PM
This is what I mean by 'absence of leadership qualities':

It is a savage, savage indictment of the way our club has been run that after taking in £16 million in transfer fees to invest in the club, instead of being up towards the top of the league and challenging for the cups, we are looking at seven years of miserable failure, we have just been through a season in which we have been humiliated four times by the worst Hearts team in fifty years, and we are now staring at relegation from the worst Scottish top division in the history of football.

It wasn't shortage of money that caused our problems, but we sure as hell are going to need money to dig our way out of them. I'm tired of reading posts on .net whimpering about how we have to 'live within our means' or we'll 'end up like Hearts'. Over the last two seasons and next, our 'means' will have taken a savage hit. How the hell are we going to improve the team by spending less money? With every year that passes performances get worse, more and more fans walk away in despair, and our 'means' continue to shrink.

So what is our great leader doing about it? Nothing, apparently. He sure as hell isn't going to put any money into the club, and neither, it appears, is STF. They appear to be quite comfortable with our ongoing spiral of failure.

What should he be doing about it? Well, instead of starting from the standpoint of "What are our means, and let's not go a penny outwith our means..." he could be starting from the standpoint of "What should our means be? What could our means be? What do I have to do to turn our potential means into our actual means?"

That's the way a leader would look at it. And we don't have a leader. A leader needs to be an inspiring figure who is a great communicator, and who finds creative solutions to long-standing problems. Our ruler has none of these qualities. Petrie is the type of person who makes an ideal second-in-command - a nitpicking bean counter who never takes a risk. People like Petrie should never be in charge. They don't know how to lead.
:agree: This mis-management of the money available has been absolutely devastating on the park. Disgraceful

Little did I know when I got my first season ticket in Mowbray's first season at the age of 12, that ten years down the line I'd be watching these losers, with one or two exceptions.

There is no strategy for success at board level. And on evidence the same could be said of TB.

Nailrod
28-04-2014, 09:33 PM
I meant to finish what I had to say, but I got kind of demoralised along the way.

I said in my previous post that we are going to need money to dig ourselves out of the hole we have diligently dug ourselves into. And I said that it clearly isn't going to come from Rod Petrie or STF. So where then?

There are three things that Rod Petrie 'The Leader' needs to do.

The first thing he needs to do is engage with the people like me - all the hundreds and thousands of supporters who used to be season ticket holders or regular walk-ups, and who in the past few years have drifted away from ER in despair. If he could persuade a thousand, or two thousand, or three thousand of us to come back, it would transform our finances.

In my case, I've never been a season ticket holder as I've spent most of my adult life abroad, but I always used to go to every match I could when I was back in Edinburgh. When I stopped going, contrary to popular .net myth, it wasn't a 'knee-jerk reaction', and I don't demand 'overnight success'. I would actually go back again even if Hibs were still unsuccessful, if I could see any genuine evidence that the people who run the club actually had any kind of creative and original ideas about how they were going to turn things around.

Unfortunately, there are two problems here.

One, Petrie has never even shown the slightest sign of being aware that 'we' exist. He has never made the slightest attempt to identify and engage with us directly; he has never made the slightest effort to find out what it would take to bring us back, and ask himself how he can deliver it. It appears that as far as he's concerned, once we stopped going, we stopped existing. I understand that the 'marketing drive' to sell season tickets this year involved some infantile drivel about a combat khaki envelope that might have persuaded my 9-year old to buy a box of lego. But since I'm not on their list, I didn't even get one.

Two, the bridges are burnt. Even if Petrie did come chasing after me to try to wheedle money out of me, I'd tell him to GTF, and I suspect that most of the 'me' brigade would do the same.

So it looks like that could be a non-starter.

Nailrod
28-04-2014, 09:57 PM
Since I'm not going to give him any of my money, Rod The Leader Petrie is going to have to try something else. And there is another avenue that's worth pursuing.

I think it's quite probable that until Mrs Cludgie suddenly appeared with two and a half million quid to save the Hearts, nobody on the planet had ever heard of her.

There are a number of well-known Hibs fans with money. There must be a number of Mrs Cludgie's as well, with no public profile. Both of these groups are potential sources of funds. These are people who could individually make the contribution of a thousand fans. If even two or three of them would do it, it would transform our finances.

Unfortunately, Rod seems to think that it's their job to come and pay homage to him at his court, and to beg him to take some of their money and he might consider it.

I don't see it that way. I see it as his job to go to them and pay homage to them at their courts, and to beg them to put a little of their money his way and they might consider it. In fact, if I was him, that's pretty much all I would be doing right now (when I wasn't busy with SFA and EUFA business of course).

The fly in the ointment here is that people who have that kind of money available tend to have it because they've been successful in their chosen fields. And if I was a Hibs fan - high or low profile - with money to spare because I had been successful in my chosen field, and if Rod came chiselling after me trying to wheedle money out of me, I'd tell him to GTF.

Anyway, no such people have put money into Hibs. So it's safe to conclude either that Rod hasn't thought of it, or that he's tried it and he's been told to GTF. Which suggests that this might be a bit of a non-starter too.

Nailrod
28-04-2014, 10:21 PM
Which leaves us with only one last thing.

We need a leader to turn our fortunes around. We need a leader to drag us out of the slough of despond. We need somebody to rid us of the Golem Effect.

We need somebody who is an inspiring figure, a person of vision, a great communicator, an original thinker who comes up with creative solutions to intractable problems.

Rod is none of these things. He's an apparatchik. His 'live within our means and ignore the fact they're getting smaller with every year that passes, sack the manager and by the way squander a bit of money in the transition process' really has now been tested to destruction as a 'strategy'.

So what Rod really needs to be spending all his time on right now is scouring the planet for somebody who is all the things he isn't, who thinks of all the things he's never thought of, who is willing to try all the things he's never tried, and who can make some of them work.

When he finds somebody like that who is willing to have a go at Hibs, then all he needs to do is hand over the reins, withdraw discreetly, and never be seen again.

Then the new person can try to engage with the 'me brigade' and find out what it would take to persuade some of us to come back with our money. (S)he can pay homage at the court of the Hibs supporters with a bit of money to spare, and find out what it would take to persuade some of them to put some of their money into the club. And if she manages to persuade one or two thousand from the first group, and one or two from the second group, to pay attention, then (s)he will have made a start on transforming our finances, and on transforming our prospects of getting back to somewhere close to where Hibernian Football Club belongs in Scottish football.

The Green Goblin
28-04-2014, 10:25 PM
Some really top posts Nailrod, as usual. I don't have anything to add to this, as you have really summed it all up brilliantly.

Nailrod
28-04-2014, 10:51 PM
Some really top posts Nailrod, as usual. I don't have anything to add to this, as you have really summed it all up brilliantly.
Thanks to you and to the small number of people above who have read this thread and offered words of encouragement.

I have a bit of sense that I'm flogging a dead horse, pretty much on my own. None of the things I've talked about above are going to happen. Nothing that matters is going to change. But I'm not done yet.

GreenLake
28-04-2014, 11:10 PM
The fact that you have to ask this question highlights the problem. Petrie has been in charge for the best part of twenty years, and what's the 'succession plan'?

Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. There's not a single person around the club of any stature whatsoever. That's what happens when you have an apparatchik running the show. He surrounds himself with mediocrity.

Sorry you made such a long trip to watch that game. I hope it wasn't in economy. I think it is a good idea for people in important roles to have a succession plan, but anyone above them who agrees with the successor they pick needs their head examined. Never let anyone pick their own successor. Ferguson and Moyes is the latest example.

Hopefully some of your ideas will find form at some point in the near future. I doubt anyone will give money to Hibs without Petrie's 10% and exit in exchange - that should be the baseline condition in my view.

cleanyman
28-04-2014, 11:36 PM
Hearts have won more derbies this season than we have in 5 years.

**** sake

Russ
28-04-2014, 11:40 PM
I meant to finish what I had to say, but I got kind of demoralised along the way.

I said in my previous post that we are going to need money to dig ourselves out of the hole we have diligently dug ourselves into. And I said that it clearly isn't going to come from Rod Petrie or STF. So where then?

There are three things that Rod Petrie 'The Leader' needs to do.

The first thing he needs to do is engage with the people like me - all the hundreds and thousands of supporters who used to be season ticket holders or regular walk-ups, and who in the past few years have drifted away from ER in despair. If he could persuade a thousand, or two thousand, or three thousand of us to come back, it would transform our finances.

In my case, I've never been a season ticket holder as I've spent most of my adult life abroad, but I always used to go to every match I could when I was back in Edinburgh. When I stopped going, contrary to popular .net myth, it wasn't a 'knee-jerk reaction', and I don't demand 'overnight success'. I would actually go back again even if Hibs were still unsuccessful, if I could see any genuine evidence that the people who run the club actually had any kind of creative and original ideas about how they were going to turn things around.

Unfortunately, there are two problems here.

One, Petrie has never even shown the slightest sign of being aware that 'we' exist. He has never made the slightest attempt to identify and engage with us directly; he has never made the slightest effort to find out what it would take to bring us back, and ask himself how he can deliver it. It appears that as far as he's concerned, once we stopped going, we stopped existing. I understand that the 'marketing drive' to sell season tickets this year involved some infantile drivel about a combat khaki envelope that might have persuaded my 9-year old to buy a box of lego. But since I'm not on their list, I didn't even get one.

Two, the bridges are burnt. Even if Petrie did come chasing after me to try to wheedle money out of me, I'd tell him to GTF, and I suspect that most of the 'me' brigade would do the same.

So it looks like that could be a non-starter.
Hundreds and thousands? lol dream on son. You flew all the way over from where? aw diddums, am sorry pal but no matter where you came from your hurt is no greater than me or joe bloggs from niddrie. The brown nosing you have received on your pishy posts only goes to reiterate the clique that exists on this *****hole

marinello59
29-04-2014, 05:40 AM
Hundreds and thousands? lol dream on son. You flew all the way over from where? aw diddums, am sorry pal but no matter where you came from your hurt is no greater than me or joe bloggs from niddrie. The brown nosing you have received on your pishy posts only goes to reiterate the clique that exists on this *****hole

Dearie me. Drunk?

emerald green
29-04-2014, 07:43 PM
Thanks to you and to the small number of people above who have read this thread and offered words of encouragement.

I have a bit of sense that I'm flogging a dead horse, pretty much on my own. None of the things I've talked about above are going to happen. Nothing that matters is going to change. But I'm not done yet.

Maybe Ms Dempster's appointment will make some of the things you've talked about happen, and things will change. I really hope so. Well said again Nailrod. :top marks

Russ
30-04-2014, 03:24 AM
maybe ms dempster's appointment will make some of the things you've talked about happen, and things will change. I really hope so. Well said again nailrod. :top marks


lol

Islington Hibs
30-04-2014, 07:09 AM
Thanks to you and to the small number of people above who have read this thread and offered words of encouragement.

I have a bit of sense that I'm flogging a dead horse, pretty much on my own. None of the things I've talked about above are going to happen. Nothing that matters is going to change. But I'm not done yet.


Nailrod there is so much gnashing of teeth (understandably). It is great to have some really constructive and well reasoned posts. Hopefully yesterday's changes will start to bring a new approach, only time will tell but certainly mediocre Rod's time has to be up.

Hibs claim around 8000 season tickets I think, down from a peak of 11000. I guess that over the last 10 seasons perhaps as many as 15000 different people have had a season. I have no idea how many different 'Hibs' supporters attended at least one game this year but if we had over 16k for Malmo and similar home support for Hearts plus others attending the odd game here and there I would guess over 20k different people have worn a green scarf at Easter Road. Quite a big 'warm' market. Further the club do know who many of these people are as they increasingly book on line.

Numbers are well down, and will almost drop further, for very obvious reasons, until there is some entertainment/winning but your points about engaging with former 'customers' and finding out what it would take to entice them back are, in any industry outside football, common sense. Very little attempt has been made to engage with these groups. Given most weeks we have 10000+ empty seats there must be targeted initiatives that could be.

However the big issue is that going to Easter Road is increasingly an aggressive/ frustrating and apathetic experience. The employees are a revolving door, almost no player/ manager is with the club for more than a couple of seasons, the supporters are angry (understandably) and it is frankly becoming the sort of negative experience one could do without.

To break this vicious circle the club must regain the trust of the very disillusioned support with a serious love in and not cheap marketing gimmicks . Equally games are more enjoyable when the crowd is 'up for it.' I hope Dempster makes a difference here but the route must be to nurture players, like Stanton, and hopefully Harris, and turn them into players who stay for a good number of years who have a real affinity with the club, supplementing our home-grown talent with 4-6 more seasoned pros. Further the club needs to make defeat unacceptable and address the culture of second best failure and the expectations of defeat that have become endemic. The first task of the manager must be to 'dominate Edinburgh.' Given that the league title is beyond everyone outside Celtic those games are most supporters cup finals. There also has to be an emphasis on entertainment. Football can not be guaranteed, but attempting to play positively should be a core requirement of a manager. Further use the excellent facilities better and make it more of a carnival atmosphere. (easier said than done!). People need to feel they have had a good day out and are not exploited.

Nailrod
30-04-2014, 05:50 PM
Hundreds and thousands? lol dream on son. You flew all the way over from where? aw diddums, am sorry pal but no matter where you came from your hurt is no greater than me or joe bloggs from niddrie. The brown nosing you have received on your pishy posts only goes to reiterate the clique that exists on this *****holeI've made several attempts to answer your post but I keep running into the need for a word of more than one syllable.

Fundamentally you're right though. How dare I - one of the 'wee folk', trying to analyse what's gone wrong and come up with some ideas as to how to put it right! Who the hell do I think I am?

Oh and just for the record - none of my posts on the thread were actually about this. It's just the heading I chose for the thread:
You flew all the way over from where? aw diddums, am sorry pal but no matter where you came from your hurt is no greater than me or joe bloggs from niddrie...

Nailrod
30-04-2014, 05:54 PM
Which leaves us with only one last thing.

We need a leader to turn our fortunes around. We need a leader to drag us out of the slough of despond. We need somebody to rid us of the Golem Effect.

We need somebody who is an inspiring figure, a person of vision, a great communicator, an original thinker who comes up with creative solutions to intractable problems.

Rod is none of these things. He's an apparatchik. His 'live within our means and ignore the fact they're getting smaller with every year that passes, sack the manager and by the way squander a bit of money in the transition process' really has now been tested to destruction as a 'strategy'.

So what Rod really needs to be spending all his time on right now is scouring the planet for somebody who is all the things he isn't, who thinks of all the things he's never thought of, who is willing to try all the things he's never tried, and who can make some of them work.

When he finds somebody like that who is willing to have a go at Hibs, then all he needs to do is hand over the reins, withdraw discreetly, and never be seen again.Dear Rod,

The bit in bold is every bit as important as the rest. Just thought I would let you know.

Nailrod.

Islington Hibs
30-04-2014, 06:25 PM
Dear Rod,

The bit in bold is every bit as important as the rest. Just thought I would let you know.

Nailrod.


Therein lies the conundrum. Is the new CEO really the CEO or is Rod doing the back seat driving? Part1 in place. Now part 2 time for Rod to, as you say, discretely disappear.

emerald green
30-04-2014, 06:53 PM
lol

What's funny? Have I missed something? :confused:

Nailrod
30-04-2014, 10:38 PM
Therein lies the conundrum. Is the new CEO really the CEO or is Rod doing the back seat driving? Part1 in place. Now part 2 time for Rod to, as you say, discretely disappear.There isn't any point in making this type of appointment if Petrie is going to insist on lurking in the background like Shelob in her lair.

We desperately need a new broom that's going to sweep clean. A new broom can't sweep clean if there's an old broom hanging around saying "No hang on you can't sweep there because that's my corner ok you can sweep there but I'll have to show you how it's done because it's not as simple as it looks no hang on a minute just let me tell you how to sweep this bit..."

The fact of the matter is that when it comes to success in running a football club Dempster has ten times the credentials that Petrie has. The only thing that she or Hibs need Petrie to do is GTF.