Get these two out now

[3pm]

This is going to end in tears.

[SaulGoodman]

:agree:

[weonlywon6-2]

Only two ??

[sesoim]

Surely Petrie first?

[The Gorf]

This is going to end in tears.

oh dear. Tin hat time mate.:rolleyes:

[HibsNutter]

Nobody in the boardroom is going to leave unless we force them out, mass demonstration required.

[dmc1875]

Honestly if someone offered me the choice of keeping either Butcher or Kevin Thomson in the summer I would struggle to find a reason to keep Butcher.

[#2 Double Tap]

Honestly if someone offered me the choice of keeping either Butcher or Kevin Thomson in the summer I would struggle to find a reason to keep Butcher.

that's crazy huh.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This is going to end in tears.

Well, you've already got a balcony in place, so why not just crack on.

Make no mistake WE MEAN BUSINESS!!!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nobody in the boardroom is going to leave unless we force them out, mass demonstration required.

:faf:

Better make sure there's a camera crew in place, and make sure you have a season ticket to wave.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Someone shouted "Butcher yer a fat clueless hun *******, gtf!!!" As they were leaving after the second goal...

[oldbutdim]

Someone shouted "Butcher yer a fat clueless hun *******, gtf!!!" As they were leaving after the second goal...

Ah! The native wit of the terracing.

Splendid.

[#2 Double Tap]

Ah! The native wit of the terracing.

Splendid.

'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

[HibsNutter]

:faf:

Better make sure there's a camera crew in place, and make sure you have a season ticket to wave.

Do you think we can prosper under the current regime? If you do then I worry

[Winston Ingram]

I'm just stunned there was no protest outside.

Not only that, the faith that some people are showing on here to a man who's managerial record is poor/mediocre:confused:

[truehibernian]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.

After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.

[Northernhibee]

Do you think we can prosper under the current regime? If you do then I worry

Given time, yes.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I'm just stunned there was no protest outside.

Not only that, the faith that some people are showing on here to a man who's managerial record is poor/mediocre:confused:

There was about 15 folk 'protesting'. Have a look at the "4pm and we're still here" thread.

[green day]

"Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week'"

Player or manager agents????

[Paperboy]

I opened this thread thinking it was going to be Kelly Brook in a bikini

[Pete]

Given time, yes.

Agree. Butchers ICT didn't have centre halves humping the ball at every opportunity.

He must be given a summer window at the very least.

[Expecting Rain]

Thank goodness fans don't run teams.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.

After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.

Good post and sadly a fair assessment.

[Winston Ingram]

I'm just stunned there was no protest outside.

Not only that, the faith that some people are showing on here to a man who's managerial record is poor/mediocre:confused:

[Phil D. Rolls]

'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.'

Please, just don't.


Do you think we can prosper under the current regime? If you do then I worry

No, but I think people waving season tickets in front of the cameras is just about as sad as it gets.

[NAE NOOKIE]

What would happen if they were forced out?

Would it be down to you who says who is on the board or the mass demonstrators?
Do you think everyone would agree or would it be a democratic vote?

I would be very very happy

[Winston Ingram]

What would happen if they were forced out?

Would it be down to you who says who is on the board or the mass demonstrators?
Do you think everyone would agree or would it be a democratic vote?

The players would get a lift:agree:

[NAE NOOKIE]

With no one in charge?

Like now

[Captain Trips]

I would actually have some respect for Petrie well 1% if he sacked TB and he should. Petrie going is a given for me cluless since at least 2010.

Sack Butcher and resign right after is what RP should be doing.

[Captain Trips]

Hmmm.
Hardly a business plan is it? A flippant comment.
People are wanting the current board ousted, some sort of board would need to be put in place.
All I'm asking is what is the alternative.

We are not in the circles to know whom is available to replace RP etc, I have no answer to that myself but that doesn't mean I cannot want rid simply because I have no alternative.

[emerald green]

What would happen if they were forced out?

Would it be down to you who says who is on the board or the mass demonstrators?
Do you think everyone would agree or would it be a democratic vote?

I don't really know what would happen if they were "forced out". I am pretty sure I do know however what is going to happen if the club remains under the control of people who don't care (certainly not as much as the fans), have no interest other than financial, no drive and no ambition, and offer zilch in the way of strong leadership. When do we EVER hear anything from Sir Tom Farmer? Do you think all is well under this regime? The club is in a slow terminal decline. How often must we sit in silence while HOMFC's loathsome fans belt out their songs as we go down to yet another defeat? Do you think Hibernian Football Club is currently in good hands? I think what the poster is alluding to is change, somehow, has to happen at Hibs.

[GGTTHibees]

I opened this thread thinking it was going to be Kelly Brook in a bikini
LOL :faf:

[emerald green]

I'm just stunned there was no protest outside.

Not only that, the faith that some people are showing on here to a man who's managerial record is poor/mediocre:confused:

That's because most fans are now becoming resigned to this s*** week after week, and have become totally disillusioned. A very serious situation for any club, yet total SILENCE from Farmer & Petrie, followed by the usual platitudes from Butcher and selected player in the EEN.

[TornadoHibby]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.

After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.

:top marks

Not much that people can seriously argue with in that post!

KT showed exactly why he should have been the first name on the team sheet during all those weeks when the "party line " was that he was injured but people who knew him were adamant that he was fit and ready and very willing to play!

[Jim44]

It's too late in the day to even think about getting rid of them for the last three matches. They don't deserve to get away that easily, anyway. Five minutes after we lose the second leg of the play-off will suffice. There's a serious probability that we are going down and I don't see Butcher and Malpas bringing us back up. I can't see them bringing in any quality players willing to spend at least a year ( realistically, at best two) in the lower divisions and I don't have any faith in their third rate lackey hanger-on making any sort of worthwhile contribution. If and when this all happens I am hoping for a real watershed in the club with a total clear out from the very top downwards but I won't hold my breath.

[Expecting Rain]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.



After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.

They probably warmed up the same way before losing 0-7 to Celtic

[NAE NOOKIE]

No, not like now at all.

Doing nothing as things go tits up is a bit like not being in charge though isn't it ?

[emerald green]

Don't know that we need to hear from tom farmer but there are opportunities for you to ask questions.
All is well? Clearly something is not well but the players must take some of the responsibility for that, petrie brought in Butcher and his team, not many were up in arms over that, no real signings in January but that is recognised as being a poor opportunity to sign good players.
We got rid of Fenlon because he wasn't achieving, we got Butcher because he was.


What this poster is asking is what is the alternative?
Not saying don't change but to empty the board without a replacement is nuts. It won't happen.

We'll need to agree to disagree that we don't need to hear from STF. He is the owner of the club, and the club is in serious trouble. If we go down he must say something to the club's supporters. I agree the players and management team share some responsibility for the position Hibs are in. Many of the so called players brought in over many years now have simply been not good enough. However, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Where, ultimately does the responsibility for that lie? I accept the board cannot simply be "emptied". I don't believe the fans can do that (but they are entitled to voice their anger and concerns - it is their club after all). Change can only come about if there is someone, or some organisation, who would want to buy the club and STF agrees to sell to them. That's probably unlikely given the poor state of the game in Scotland. Fan ownership is another alternative, but that tends to get dismissed on these forums as being nuts. It may well be. I don't know. Whatever it is, something has to change at HFC or we are finished.

[basehibby]

This is going to end in tears.

So you think sacking our management team with 3 games to go is going to improve our chances of avoiding the playoffs then :confused:

[bingo70]

So you think sacking our management team with 3 games to go is going to improve our chances of avoiding the playoffs then :confused:

It couldnt do it much harm.

[pontius pilate]

Not one for sacking the management team at all every manager as far as I can remember has had at least a summer window to get his guys in who want to play for him as has been alluded to on another thread TB has stated that players are lined up and wanting to come to us but we need to stay up. We cannot and shoukd not get rid of the management team. For me alot of the problems run deeper than that or is every manager we have had been that *****

[southsider]

Butcher is a clown who got lucky at ICT. His record is nothing short of a disgrace. Should we sack him with 3 games to go ? I would as i believe it is our only chance of securing a win. Kevin Thompson to pick the team for the last 3 games...... we just might get a win.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We have a dilemma here. Do we stick by a manager who might get us relegated, or we do sack a guy after six months, so possibly creating more turmoil in the midst of relegation fight.


My personal opinion is he can **** off now. We're dropping like a stone and don't look like collecting even a point. We have three games to save our season and perhaps the medium term future of the club.

[truehibernian]

We have a dilemma here. Do we stick by a manager who might get us relegated, or we do sack a guy after six months, so possibly creating more turmoil in the midst of relegation fight.


My personal opinion is he can **** off now. We're dropping like a stone and don't look like collecting even a point. We have three games to save our season and perhaps the medium term future of the club.

Proof will be Petrie and summer - if 8 players are not announced prior to preseason, there's your answer - if we wait til last few days of window, whichever division we are in, welcome to more dross.

[GreenLake]

:top marks

Not much that people can seriously argue with in that post!

KT showed exactly why he should have been the first name on the team sheet during all those weeks when the "party line " was that he was injured but people who knew him were adamant that he was fit and ready and very willing to play!

It is an indicator of how low we have fallen that you claim KT should be the first name on our team sheet, but you are absolutely right.

[GreenLake]

Butcher is a clown who got lucky at ICT. His record is nothing short of a disgrace. Should we sack him with 3 games to go ? I would as i believe it is our only chance of securing a win. Kevin Thompson to pick the team for the last 3 games...... we just might get a win.

:faf:

[weonlywon6-2]

Proof will be Petrie and summer - if 8 players are not announced prior to preseason, there's your answer - if we wait til last few days of window, whichever division we are in, welcome to more dross.

I do expect us to stay up but if petrie doesnt back butcher in the summer he would probably walk himself.
Even petrie must see major surgery is required.

Butcher needs to put his name back on the map for his own good and he will,firstly by signing leigh from celtic !!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

We'll need to agree to disagree that we don't need to hear from STF. He is the owner of the club, and the club is in serious trouble. If we go down he must say something to the club's supporters. I agree the players and management team share some responsibility for the position Hibs are in. Many of the so called players brought in over many years now have simply been not good enough. However, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Where, ultimately does the responsibility for that lie? I accept the board cannot simply be "emptied". I don't believe the fans can do that (but they are entitled to voice their anger and concerns - it is their club after all). Change can only come about if there is someone, or some organisation, who would want to buy the club and STF agrees to sell to them. That's probably unlikely given the poor state of the game in Scotland. Fan ownership is another alternative, but that tends to get dismissed on these forums as being nuts. It may well be. I don't know. Whatever it is, something has to change at HFC or we are finished.

:hmmm:

Are you saying it isn't nuts? Seems to me it's only clubs that are forced into it, as a way of avoiding their debts that do it.

Well see how things go at Hearts. I noticed some of the deluded had Ann Budge masks on yesterday. Fuds, they've learned nothing.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I do expect us to stay up but if petrie doesnt back butcher in the summer he would probably walk himself.
Even petrie must see major surgery is required.

Butcher needs to put his name back on the map for his own good and he will,firstly by signing leigh from celtic !!!

I wish :boo hoo:

[StevieC]

Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy as the next fan about the current run of form (or lack of it), but you have to give Butcher the opportunity to get at least some of his own players in before we start talking about the Hibernian Manager Merry-go-round again.

IMO Butcher has been asked to clear the drive of snow and been handed a pitch-fork to do it. As fans, we can all see which players are trying and which ones are just not up to the task. I'm pretty sure that Butcher can see that as well, but he's stuck with them till the summer.

I appreciate that derby defeats hurt more than anything, and we've had two in quick succession, but I've been going to games since the late 70's and if you judged every manager on derby games then we'd have gone through a lot more than we actually have.

[Captain Trips]

UOTE=StevieC;3987452]Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy as the next fan about the current run of form (or lack of it), but you have to give Butcher the opportunity to get at least some of his own players in before we start talking about the Hibernian Manager Merry-go-round again.

IMO Butcher has been asked to clear the drive of snow and been handed a pitch-fork to do it. As fans, we can all see which players are trying and which ones are just not up to the task. I'm pretty sure that Butcher can see that as well, but he's stuck with them till the summer.

I appreciate that derby defeats hurt more than anything, and we've had two in quick succession, but I've been going to games since the late 70's and if you judged every manager on derby games then we'd have gone through a lot more than we actually have.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with your analagy about snow. It is correct to a certain extent but he was surely asked to take what was left and show improvement as he is surely supposed to be a better manager. He has not even cleared the drive but moved more snow onto it. He hasn't even been as good as Fenlon this season he has been not worse but significantly worse.

His record is a disgrace regardless of who signed who. It is sheer hope he will get it right and after 6 months it should have more basis than hope as I have seen nothing to make it anything other than hope. Hope is day one, evidence surely by now that it will come good and there is none.

I think Butcher is like PF 100% up for it he is just not right.

[StevieC]

It is correct to a certain extent but he was surely asked to take what was left and show improvement as he is surely supposed to be a better manager. He has not even cleared the drive but moved more snow onto it. He hasn't even been as good as Fenlon this season he has been not worse but significantly worse.

I don't know about significantly, time seems to have dulled the memory of just how bad we were under Fenlon (I was at both legs of the Malmo tie).

I still think it's harsh to judge a manager on players that he has inherited. Due to Fenlons signings, and tactics, Butcher has no strikers (unless you count Collins) to get the goals he needs, and he has a defence that is unable to defend set-pieces. You could be the best manager in the country and still struggle under those conditions.

[matty_f]

Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy as the next fan about the current run of form (or lack of it), but you have to give Butcher the opportunity to get at least some of his own players in before we start talking about the Hibernian Manager Merry-go-round again.

IMO Butcher has been asked to clear the drive of snow and been handed a pitch-fork to do it. As fans, we can all see which players are trying and which ones are just not up to the task. I'm pretty sure that Butcher can see that as well, but he's stuck with them till the summer.

I appreciate that derby defeats hurt more than anything, and we've had two in quick succession, but I've been going to games since the late 70's and if you judged every manager on derby games then we'd have gone through a lot more than we actually have.

Good post. Butcher should have the window to make changes and if, after that, we're still losing consistently then he can have no complaints.
I saw players playing for him and the badge yesterday.

[greenlex]

I would actually have some respect for Petrie well 1% if he sacked TB and he should. Petrie going is a given for me cluless since at least 2010.

Sack Butcher and resign right after is what RP should be doing.
Brilliant just ****ing brilliant. A handful of games to avoid the drop and you think the chairman should sack the management team then resign himself.

[Matt92]

IMO sacking the management team is NOT the answer that's potentially three new management teams in one season?!

I was one of a vast majority who were delighted when Butcher et al took over. He has done it elsewhere, knows this league and I think he needs at least until the end of next season.

He has inherited a god awful squad low on ability and confidence. I reckon a majority of the players know that they are heading for the door in the summer and therefore getting them to squeeze performances out will be a total nightmare. If we can limp through to next season avoiding relegation, the real test will be how butcher conducts his business this transfer window.

I am however worried that he will be doing so with the most stringent budget by a hibs manager in years with no cup money and way lower ST sales.

Very worrying times for us, we are a club in a major crisis.

[Winston Ingram]

Hmmm.
Hardly a business plan is it? A flippant comment.
People are wanting the current board ousted, some sort of board would need to be put in place.
All I'm asking is what is the alternative.

i don't think we need a business plan right now. Just a result or 2 in the last 3 games. One thing that is looking almost certain is that if this pair of clowns are still in charge for the rest of the season, that business plan will be based on the club surviving a minimum 2 seasons on Championship income.

[Captain Trips]

I don't know about significantly, time seems to have dulled the memory of just how bad we were under Fenlon (I was at both legs of the Malmo tie).

I still think it's harsh to judge a manager on players that he has inherited. Due to Fenlons signings, and tactics, Butcher has no strikers (unless you count Collins) to get the goals he needs, and he has a defence that is unable to defend set-pieces. You could be the best manager in the country and still struggle under those conditions.

My memory has not been dulled. The team is/was not great but IMO it is better than this. It is significant as PF won 5 out of his first 13 matches 15 if include Malmo. Butcher has won 5 in 23 that is significant. I expected us to be poor when he took over as he sets his marks but to be on a run like we are is shocking this far in.

So do we just ignore the last 6 months then? It isn't his players so just ignore this as an indication of the future? If Terry had won say 12/13 games which would have been good and somebody still wanted rid would you have referenced his last 6 months in that scenario as an indication.

[HibsNutter]

Given time, yes.

We've been in decline for seven years and it's showing no signs of getting better.

[Michael]

We might as well keep TB. If he goes we're only gonna get another guy in that'll be sacked in less than 12 months.

Even if we go down I think TB could get us back up. He got ICT promotion in one year.

[Captain Trips]

Brilliant just ****ing brilliant. A handful of games to avoid the drop and you think the chairman should sack the management team then resign himself.

Yes that is exactly what you should do. And the current manager offers? Hope? You can't change a manager argument after 6 months?

6 loses in a row not won since 15th Feburary and your giving it ++++king brilliant on a change. 23 games give us something GL from the football so far to give you the hope you have or is it just you can't sack him or it will be costly if that's it then he should go.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good post. Butcher should have the window to make changes and if, after that, we're still losing consistently then he can have no complaints.
I saw players playing for him and the badge yesterday.

Who will we/Butcher be able to sign in the window if we're relegated? The dilemma we face is an immediate one: three games to save ourselves.

[Dr Jimmy]

Yes that is exactly what you should do. And the current manager offers? Hope? You can't change a manager argument after 6 months?

6 loses in a row not won since 15th Feburary and your giving it ++++king brilliant on a change. 23 games give us something GL from the football so far to give you the hope you have or is it just you can't sack him or it will be costly if that's it then he should go.

Get TB & MM to **** now. Remove Petrie at end of season.

[(((Fergus)))]

Who will we/Butcher be able to sign in the window if we're relegated? The dilemma we face is an immediate one: three games to save ourselves.

Who will Hibs/Butcher be able to sign if the club remains a kind of Bermuda triangle in the SPFL where the skills of seemingly decent players inexplicably disappear.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Who will Hibs/Butcher be able to sign if the club remains a kind of Bermuda triangle in the SPFL where the skills of seemingly decent players inexplicably disappear.

That's a different question, but a good yin nonetheless.

If Butcher keeps us up, then his being given he summer to re-build comes into play. But if we're relegated, there won't be any re-building, only further downsizing. The nub of the issue is whether Butcher can keep us up. Summer transfers are a long way off right now.

[Captain Trips]

That's a different question, but a good yin nonetheless.

If Butcher keeps us up, then his being given he summer to re-build comes into play. But if we're relegated, there won't be any re-building, only further downsizing. The nub of the issue is whether Butcher can keep us up. Summer transfers are a long way off right now.

I disagree with your terminology "if Butcher keeps us up" it is like we were already bottom and he came in to try and save. Butcher hasn't kept us up if we stay up I would say "if Butcher doesn't manage to relegate us"

Sorry if reading it wrong but its like he should get credit if we stay up?

[emerald green]

:hmmm:

Are you saying it isn't nuts? Seems to me it's only clubs that are forced into it, as a way of avoiding their debts that do it.

Well see how things go at Hearts. I noticed some of the deluded had Ann Budge masks on yesterday. Fuds, they've learned nothing.

No mate I'm not saying it isn't nuts. If you read the rest of my post I go on to say I don't know. To be honest I hope fan ownership goes horribly wrong for HOMFC. I detest them and their loathsome supporters. I just genuinely believe something, somehow has to change at Hibernian FC.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I disagree with your terminology "if Butcher keeps us up" it is like we were already bottom and he came in to try and save. Butcher hasn't kept us up if we stay up I would say "if Butcher doesn't manage to relegate us"

Sorry if reading it wrong but its like he should get credit if we stay up?

No, I'm not saying should get any credit for keeping us up. Relegation wasn't a possibility when he arrived. My point is addressed to those saying he must be given the summer to re-build, as there will be no possibility of re-building if we're relegated. I'm saying we have a decision to make before we reach that point: can we afford to let Butcher reach the transfer window, or do we need a change now to ensure our survival in the last three games? It's a dilemma.

[Kato]

Relegation wasn't a possibility when he arrived.

Why wasn't it?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Why wasn't it?

We were comfortable enough, though by the end I agreed with Fenlon's sacking. Up until jut a few weeks ago I didn't give relegation a second thought. Perhaps I was complacent, but it's the fact we haven't won a game since mid February that has made relegation a realistic danger.

[Kato]

We were comfortable enough, though by the end I agreed with Fenlon's sacking. Up until jut a few weeks ago I didn't give relegation a second thought. Perhaps I was complacent, but it's the fact we haven't won a game since mid February that has made relegation a realistic danger.

These players were just as likely to put in the same peformances no matter the manager.

Said it before and I'll say it again the majority of players we have are good enough but the team lacks leadership on the park and some character to keep going when things are tough. Sauzee or Stanton simply wouldn't have given them the lee-way to give up during games.

[Frazerbob]

My take on Butcher is that he clearly thought we could coast to the end of the season, possibly making top 6, possibly not, thus allowing him to keep his powder dry and budget intact for the summer transfer window. He publicly told a few players to find another club in January, none of whom did. We find ourselves in the deep doggy doo and he is now relying on these same player to help dig him out of it. If....and it's a big IF, we manage to stave off relegation, terry has a massive rebuilding job on his hands. Can he do it? I don't see why not. Stuart McCall seems to manage it every season. We have to give him the opportunity.

If we go down however, he'll probably walk IMO.

[greenlex]

Yes that is exactly what you should do. And the current manager offers? Hope? You can't change a manager argument after 6 months?

6 loses in a row not won since 15th Feburary and your giving it ++++king brilliant on a change. 23 games give us something GL from the football so far to give you the hope you have or is it just you can't sack him or it will be costly if that's it then he should go. So we sack Butcher and Petrie chucks it a day later. Where will that leave us with three games left of the season? That is what you are advocating. Butcher was brought in as Fenlon wasn't doing it. Possibly getting rid of Fenlon was a long term view rather than where we were at that particular time. He needs time to do what he was brought into do. He had a January window on an almost zero budget The management team were relatively successful on a budget much less than they can expect at Hibs. He is playing with a poor hand here. The players are not doing it. His inverness teams used t come to ER and brush us aside with ease. What we have witnessed so far is IMO no way to what we can look forward to going forward. I sincerely hope relegation or not he is given time. Instability and chopping and changing Management and Players every year or so is possibly the biggest problem at Hibs. For the record I think Petrie has run his course and as a club we need a change. Sacking Butcher is madness.

[greenlex]

My take on Butcher is that he clearly thought we could coast to the end of the season, possibly making top 6, possibly not, thus allowing him to keep his powder dry and budget intact for the summer transfer window. He publicly told a few players to find another club in January, none of whom did. We find ourselves in the deep doggy doo and he is now relying on these same player to help dig him out of it. If....and it's a big IF, we manage to stave off relegation, terry has a massive rebuilding job on his hands. Can he do it? I don't see why not. Stuart McCall seems to manage it every season. We have to give him the opportunity.

If we go down however, he'll probably walk IMO. I think rather than thinking he could coast it any budget was used up bringing him Malpas and Marsella in in the first place. Loans were the only option. Summer will be different.

[dmc1875]

So we sack Butcher and Petrie chucks it a day later. Where will that leave us with three games left of the season? That is what you are advocating. Butcher was brought in as Fenlon wasn't doing it. Possibly getting rid of Fenlon was a long term view rather than where we were at that particular time. He needs time to do what he was brought into do. He had a January window on an almost zero budget The management team were relatively successful on a budget much less than they can expect at Hibs. He is playing with a poor hand here. The players are not doing it. His inverness teams used t come to ER and brush us aside with ease. What we have witnessed so far is IMO no way to what we can look forward to going forward. I sincerely hope relegation or not he is given time. Instability and chopping and changing Management and Players every year or so is possibly the biggest problem at Hibs. For the record I think Petrie has run his course and as a club we need a change. Sacking Butcher is madness.

:agree:

There is no doubt he has made some silly decisions though. I cant fathom why he tries to put 'square pegs in round holes' all the time. I don't understand the one up front.

And I will never understand why Thomson, clearly our best midfielder, was shoved to the side so quickly and told to find a new club in January. I hope they have fixed whatever issues there were, he signs a new contract, and we can build our team with him in it. A class apart at times.

Getting rid of Butcher though, would be ridiculous. He did a great job at Inverness, brought his whole management team with him and has definitely got the ability and passion to turn this club around.

Petrie on the other hand... well thats open to debate :cb

[Kaiserclem]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.

After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.


Cannot argue with any of that, When did u last see a butcher on the pitch after the game punching the air and applauding us fans! I was over the moon with Butcher and Malpas being appointed but I tell u wh! now I have lost all faith with their constant team changes, not playing KT is a joke and why do they play Watmore in the left when he has no left foot? Clueless. get the pair of them out the door now!

[greenlex]

Cannot argue with any of that, When did u last see a butcher on the pitch after the game punching the air and applauding us fans! I was over the moon with Butcher and Malpas being appointed but I tell u wh! now I have lost all faith with their constant team changes, not playing KT is a joke and why do they play Watmore in the left when he has no left foot? Clueless. get the pair of them out the door now!He whipped two lovely crosses in on Sunday with his left peg:confused:

[dmc1875]

Observations for me today.

Hearts goalkeepers were out early warming up, all upbeat, laughing, enjoying. Murdoch and Bobo went onto the pitch for the warm up, no Marsella - Bobo sent in to get him by SM. Marsella appears, slow, looking disinterested - speaks to fat Robbo for a while and leaves Ben, SM and Bobo to do their own wee thing, which isn't much.

Teams come out - Hearts lads look carefree, Hibs looked and were anxious, Zero leadership, no noise, no sledging the opposition.

Crowd - poor and muted. Hearts crowd up for it - even two lashings of SoL didn't muster concerted energy from stands.

Goals went in and again defence not only wanting but the only player to show utter anger and disgust was Cummings and Forster. Williams did his usual 'I'll hit fresh air hard' motion.

Bench during game was like a morgue, no life, no zest - team looks beaten and there is something seriously wrong at the club. Players and management look disengaged with each other.

After game, Sammy was in tears - Robbo utterly crestfallen and stayed in dugout - I like him a lot. Shows he cares and he shouldn't have played today from start. But he and Thommo I thought put in a hell of a shift. Alex Harris looked upset.....the rest......couldn't get off and out of ER quickly enough.

MotM for me was either Thommo or Jason Cummings.

James Collins - aye, gid yin. Nice one Pat :aok:

Butcher - wow, just wow. The fight, passion and enthusiasm has drained. Leader - not so sure have to be honest.

Point of interest - two agents talking to Terry very soon (and I mean very soon) after full time. Catching up 'this week' !

Hibs I'm afraid are a slow, dying, shell of a club........very very very sad to see and witness. Nothing about the place denotes winners and success. Nothing at all.

After the second goal Maybury went absolutely ballistic at Forster. Even Liam Craig was going nuts. You didn't need to be a genius to work out what Maybury was saying.

At the end a lot of the players looked crest-fallen. Ryan McGivern and James Collins being two others

[dmc1875]

Cannot argue with any of that, When did u last see a butcher on the pitch after the game punching the air and applauding us fans! I was over the moon with Butcher and Malpas being appointed but I tell u wh! now I have lost all faith with their constant team changes, not playing KT is a joke and why do they play Watmore in the left when he has no left foot? Clueless. get the pair of them out the door now!

Watmore looked really dangerous and a couple of times if it wasn't for excellent defending from McGowan, he would have shaped to shoot coming in from the left on his right foot....

Couple of decent balls in too...

[Captain Trips]

So we sack Butcher and Petrie chucks it a day later. Where will that leave us with three games left of the season? That is what you are advocating. Butcher was brought in as Fenlon wasn't doing it. Possibly getting rid of Fenlon was a long term view rather than where we were at that particular time. He needs time to do what he was brought into do. He had a January window on an almost zero budget The management team were relatively successful on a budget much less than they can expect at Hibs. He is playing with a poor hand here. The players are not doing it. His inverness teams used t come to ER and brush us aside with ease. What we have witnessed so far is IMO no way to what we can look forward to going forward. I sincerely hope relegation or not he is given time. Instability and chopping and changing Management and Players every year or so is possibly the biggest problem at Hibs. For the record I think Petrie has run his course and as a club we need a change. Sacking Butcher is madness.

So you are ignoring 5 wins from 23 and going back to his time at a different club as a marker? That is fine on day one and day 20 but what he is doing at Hibs now to me indicates what maybe in future rather than his time at another club, we both want what is best for Hibs but with very different ideas and thats fine but ignoring the last 6 months is folly IMO. This is going to end badly I fear you want him to be given a go in summer surely only based on his time at ICT and not what IMO is more relevant his time here.

The fact you are mentioning his achievements at previous club even though he has been here for 6 months says a lot, I ask you what has he done here footballing wise that gives you hope?

[Captain Trips]

:agree:

There is no doubt he has made some silly decisions though. I cant fathom why he tries to put 'square pegs in round holes' all the time. I don't understand the one up front.

And I will never understand why Thomson, clearly our best midfielder, was shoved to the side so quickly and told to find a new club in January. I hope they have fixed whatever issues there were, he signs a new contract, and we can build our team with him in it. A class apart at times.

Getting rid of Butcher though, would be ridiculous. He did a great job at Inverness, brought his whole management team with him and has definitely got the ability and passion to turn this club around.

Petrie on the other hand... well thats open to debate :cb


I do not understand this you point out things he has done while at Hibs in fact 2/3 things that you do not understand or agree with, then you say getting rid would be ridiculous based on a job at previous club. So in his time here for you he has made mistakes but nothing positive as you have not mentioned it the only positives are he has passion and what he did at ICT.

So you are ignoring the points you made and going purely on hope?

[Weir7]

Watmore looked really dangerous and a couple of times if it wasn't for excellent defending from McGowan, he would have shaped to shoot coming in from the left on his right foot....

Couple of decent balls in too...

Hes very raw and inexperienced. Not what we needed on transfer window. We neded experienced pros ready to deliver.

Three times Thomson played in watmore. Three times watmore tried to switch ball to right peg. Three times he lost the ball and got no shots on goal

Another long pass to him in box and he totally miscontrolled it.

[dmc1875]

I do not understand this you point out things he has done while at Hibs in fact 2/3 things that you do not understand or agree with, then you say getting rid would be ridiculous based on a job at previous club. So in his time here for you he has made mistakes but nothing positive as you have not mentioned it the only positives are he has passion and what he did at ICT.

So you are ignoring the points you made and going purely on hope?


I feel he needs his own team. I think he has struggled to get the best out of this team, but given time, will be able to one.

The Thomson situation has been well documented I just hope that is all behind them now.

If this was his team, playing this way then he would and rightly should be in the firing line. But when he has been left with this team and a budget of effectively £0 in January, he cannot be seen as the sole reason we are in this mess.

[Weir7]

I feel he needs his own team. I think he has struggled to get the best out of this team, but given time, will be able to one.

The Thomson situation has been well documented I just hope that is all behind them now.

If this was his team, playing this way then he would and rightly should be in the firing line. But when he has been left with this team and a budget of effectively £0 in January, he cannot be seen as the sole reason we are in this mess.
Buget of zero is nonsense. There was a budget for wages. He decided to spread it on three players. Two total rookies. One who is total.junk and there is better players in the reserves.

Binned rossco and vine. And replaced them with haynes. Who is a lazy wage thief.

Butcher is a mug.

[greenlex]

Buget of zero is nonsense. There was a budget for wages. He decided to spread it on three players. Two total rookies. One who is total.junk and there is better players in the reserves.

Binned rossco and vine. And replaced them with haynes. Who is a lazy wage thief.

Butcher is a mug. Maybe not zero but far from nonsense. If there was more cash there Rooney would be in a Hibs shirt as he wanted a permanent deal rather than loan. Butcher obviously assessed the squad and thought more than one player was needed. I agree Haynes has been poor and God knows what has happened with the Arsenal lad. He must be decidedly average in training to not be able to challenge that defence for a place. Watmore is decent enough but an inexperienced kid. Rossco and Vine have obvious attitude problems and were removed from the squad. The Summer will be an altogether different window. Butcher maybe a lot of things but he is no Mug

[dmc1875]

Maybe not zero but far from nonsense. If there was more cash there Rooney would be in a Hibs shirt as he wanted a permanent deal rather than loan. Butcher obviously assessed the squad and thought more than one player was needed. I agree Haynes has been poor and God knows what has happened with the Arsenal lad. He must be decidedly average in training to not be able to challenge that defence for a place. Watmore is decent enough but an inexperienced kid. Rossco and Vine have obvious attitude problems and were removed from the squad. The Summer will be an altogether different window. Butcher maybe a lot of things but he is no Mug

:agree:

[silverhibee]

He whipped two lovely crosses in on Sunday with his left peg:confused:[/B]
[/B]

He also lost the ball a number of times, still looks like the lad is carrying a injury.

[greenlex]

So you are ignoring 5 wins from 23 and going back to his time at a different club as a marker? That is fine on day one and day 20 but what he is doing at Hibs now to me indicates what maybe in future rather than his time at another club, we both want what is best for Hibs but with very different ideas and thats fine but ignoring the last 6 months is folly IMO. This is going to end badly I fear you want him to be given a go in summer surely only based on his time at ICT and not what IMO is more relevant his time here.

The fact you are mentioning his achievements at previous club even though he has been here for 6 months says a lot, I ask you what has he done here footballing wise that gives you hope?

Nothing he has done here in footballing terms Carlsberg. He is a decent manager and has proved this in the past, What more do you want me to say. Are you seriously advocating sacking every manager that fails to produce after a few months in the job even if they have a previous pedigree? Would you be the same if it was say David Moyes or Tony Mowbray or anyone who hasn't got these players playing for them? It would be absolute madness to sack him after this time. Even bigger madness when you don't have the finances to either pay him off or indeed replace with the quality of appointment you seem to require. The playing budget would be even worse than we have already for just getting rid of him. Give him time to get on with what he was brought in to do. That is get us up the right end of the table and sustain it.

[weonlywon6-2]

These players were just as likely to put in the same peformances no matter the manager.

Said it before and I'll say it again the majority of players we have are good enough but the team lacks leadership on the park and some character to keep going when things are tough. Sauzee or Stanton simply wouldn't have given them the lee-way to give up during games.


Imo most of our players are not good enough and we are season after season poor after new year.

I never thought when butcher came in we would be in this position but he needs to put his own players on the park,only then can we properly judge him,imo ofcourse

[Captain Trips]

Nothing he has done here in footballing terms Carlsberg. He is a decent manager and has proved this in the past, What more do you want me to say. Are you seriously advocating sacking every manager that fails to produce after a few months in the job even if they have a previous pedigree? Would you be the same if it was say David Moyes or Tony Mowbray or anyone who hasn't got these players playing for them? It would be absolute madness to sack him after this time. Even bigger madness when you don't have the finances to either pay him off or indeed replace with the quality of appointment you seem to require. The playing budget would be even worse than we have already for just getting rid of him. Give him time to get on with what he was brought in to do. That is get us up the right end of the table and sustain it.

No I am not advocating sacking every manager after a few months as you have to look at each one. For me the team Fenlon left was and is better than 5 wins from 23 not world beaters but for me better than this so therefore I do not see what TB brings to the club other than thus far a worse recodd than last manager.

Fenlon was same even though he cam in after Calderwood at about same time in season Butcher came in funnily enough Fenlon won 5 spl matches from November and again I thought the team was better than this.

If fenlon had lost all his matches this term or won 1 or 2 then as bad as it is Butchers record wouldnt look so bad however Fenlon did manage 5/13 so there was at least performances to be had I did not expect TB to come in and win 17/18 from 23 but on balance with players at hand I expected a lot more than 5.

The point that it would cost too much is not a valid reason to keep a manager not doing well enough but you seem to mention it and as I stated all you can offer me on him doing well is actually ignoring what is happening now and refrencing his last job. TB should have been losing his matches when he first arrived and stamping his mark on team with some progression this term and maybe getting his wins further on, 6 loses in a row is telling me his mark isnt very good.

Should we not be getting better week by week even if slight? I understand all you say but for me we are going to lose a lot more keeping this guy like we did with Fenlon. I think GL if TB had won 12/13 matches you would then reference this before mentioning ICT. Are you not concerned that after 6 months and that is a pretty good length of time that you admit "nothing he has done here in football terms". After 6 months you not think there should be something?

The job done at ICT was good but this isn't ICT you maybe can but I cannot look past what has been going on at the club he is at and I am far from impressed I just feel like I did with Calderwood that there is something not right with the fit.