PDA

View Full Version : Butcher and time!!!!



greenforgo
23-04-2014, 05:57 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

Mark79
23-04-2014, 06:01 PM
Realistically it looks like he will have a massively different squad with all the players out of contract in summer. The new ones will need to bond so I think 10 matches. Thats a third of a season.

Hermit Crab
23-04-2014, 06:03 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???


If things haven't turned round by Xmas then he will be out the door.

bingo70
23-04-2014, 06:04 PM
Wont have long next season as theres no obvious relegation candidate, this seasons form at the start of next season could see us cut adrift at the bottom. I'd say he'll get the first 5-10 games then we will need to act. (Assuming we stay up this season)

Fwiw the above is exactly what i think will happen and we will have another new manager by christmas.

iwasthere1972
23-04-2014, 06:10 PM
Depends whether Rod takes a leaf out Manchester United's book and doesn't trust him to spend the budget wisely.

Seriously got to give him another full season to turn things around. Candidates for the Hibs manager job will be thin on the ground and if they're not then most of them will be gash.

Diclonius
23-04-2014, 06:12 PM
Rod


the budget

lol

Onceinawhile
23-04-2014, 06:13 PM
AGM time. Missed the annual AGM sacking last year.

Pretty Boy
23-04-2014, 06:16 PM
There's really no excuse for not hitting the ground running next season. It will be his team and he's had 2/3rds of a season to analyse what key areas need addressed.

In saying that as long as their is clear signs of inprovement and we are in no danger of going down then he should probably get the whole season. If we start with a run like the current one the unfortunately we have to cut our losses, again.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 06:16 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

He brought in his own players and never picks them.

Sir David Gray
23-04-2014, 06:16 PM
As I've said already, we cannot keep losing managers every couple of years, either voluntarily or otherwise. It does nothing to help us at all.

To put it simply, we can't afford to sack Butcher any time soon, in my opinion.

We picked him and his backroom team less than 6 months ago on the basis that he had worked wonders at a far smaller club than our own with much less resources at his disposal. We need to give him time over the summer to build his own team and then we need to see what happens next season as he goes about trying to implement his methods with his own team. This short term approach that we seem to have towards football management is not one that I support and the one thing that we need at Hibs, above everything else, is stability.

We have had six managers since Mowbray left and that was only seven and a half years ago. That's a ridiculous turnover to have and it needs to change.

If Terry Butcher leaves the club within the next couple of years, for any reason other than because he's been headhunted by a bigger club due to his success with us, then Rod Petrie and the rest of the club's hierarchy needs to leave with him.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 06:23 PM
As I've said already, we cannot keep losing managers every couple of years, either voluntarily or otherwise. It does nothing to help us at all.

To put it simply, we can't afford to sack Butcher any time soon, in my opinion.

We picked him and his backroom team less than 6 months ago on the basis that he had worked wonders at a far smaller club than our own with much less resources at his disposal. We need to give him time over the summer to build his own team and then we need to see what happens next season as he goes about trying to implement his methods with his own team. This short term approach that we seem to have towards football management is not one that I support and the one thing that we need at Hibs, above everything else, is stability.

We have had six managers since Mowbray left and that was only seven and a half years ago. That's a ridiculous turnover to have and it needs to change.

If Terry Butcher leaves the club within the next couple of years, for any reason other than because he's been headhunted by a bigger club due to his success with us, then Rod Petrie and the rest of the club's hierarchy needs to leave with him.

I don't think you can apply a blanket rule to these things.

If a person is not very good or awful this case, as an employer what you are seeing is abhorrent you can't keep him and cause more damage just cos he needs more time. The damage this man has causing looks like being catastrophic.

The issue with the managers Hibs have had is with our recruitment policy not with the amount of time they've been given.:agree:

3pm
23-04-2014, 06:24 PM
He has no margin for error and it's all his own doing IMO.

I have said on other threads that I wouldn't continue with him. I really hope he turns it round and does the business though.

jeffers
23-04-2014, 06:27 PM
I don't think you can apply a blanket rule to these things.

If a person is not very good or awful this case, as an employer what you are seeing is abhorrent you can't keep him and cause more damage just cos he needs more time. The damage this man has causing looks like being catastrophic.

The issue with the managers Hibs have had is with our recruitment policy not with the amount of time they've been given.:agree:

Absolutely. If we had made a mistake in letting these managers go they would have by gone on to do well at other clubs. NONE of them have. Says it all for me.

Sir David Gray
23-04-2014, 06:37 PM
I don't think you can apply a blanket rule to these things.

If a person is not very good or awful this case, as an employer what you are seeing is abhorrent you can't keep him and cause more damage just cos he needs more time. The damage this man has causing looks like being catastrophic.

The issue with the managers Hibs have had is with our recruitment policy not with the amount of time they've been given.:agree:

I go back to my point in my previous post though about Butcher being selected by the Hibs board less than six months ago, and being prized away from a club that he had done a great job at for the last couple of years. On the face of it, Terry Butcher was a great choice for Hibs.

He had done a great job at Inverness on a very small budget, he has a good standing within the game itself and knows Scottish football inside out after spending much of the last 20 years up here both as a player and manager.

I wholeheartedly stand by my original point which is that if Terry Butcher ends up being another failed appointment for Hibs, we absolutely must have a change at the top of the club.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

bingo70
23-04-2014, 06:52 PM
Dont know how anyone can suggest giving him a full season or even till christmas. What if the current form continues into next season?

No way can we give him that long imo.

J-C
23-04-2014, 06:53 PM
Out of all the seasons he's been a manager, he's had 1 decent one, pure luck or has it taken him that long to figure out how to do it, personally after seeing what he's done thus far, I'm very apprehensive.

JMac
23-04-2014, 06:57 PM
If we stay up he has till X mas, if we get relegated, he's gone

The Sea-gull
23-04-2014, 07:01 PM
He brought in his own players and never picks them.

Not sure they were his choices. Maybe his fifth choices if they were his at all.

emerald green
23-04-2014, 07:01 PM
I wholeheartedly stand by my original point which is that if Terry Butcher ends up being another failed appointment for Hibs, we absolutely must have a change at the top of the club.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

This. :agree:

The Sea-gull
23-04-2014, 07:03 PM
I go back to my point in my previous post though about Butcher being selected by the Hibs board less than six months ago, and being prized away from a club that he had done a great job at for the last couple of years. On the face of it, Terry Butcher was a great choice for Hibs.

He had done a great job at Inverness on a very small budget, he has a good standing within the game itself and knows Scottish football inside out after spending much of the last 20 years up here both as a player and manager.

I wholeheartedly stand by my original point which is that if Terry Butcher ends up being another failed appointment for Hibs, we absolutely must have a change at the top of the club.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

There should have been a change at the top about 3 managers ago.

Carheenlea
23-04-2014, 07:07 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

If results are good and the football is entertaining, he will get all the time he wants.

Zazu62
23-04-2014, 07:07 PM
I honestly believe if we beat hearts on Sunday the whole thing will turn around . C'mon butchers boys .

bingo70
23-04-2014, 07:11 PM
This. :agree:

I agree as well but realistically nothing will happen.

We'll all moan on here, maybe even a small protest after a defeat but then we will appoint someone new and we'll all get caught up in the optimisim and euphoria that comes with a new manager then the whole cycle will start again.

What i dont understand is all recent succesfull appointments have made a big deal aboit teams playing good football. Mowbray being the obvious one, collins won us a cup, yogi got us to europe and going back further we played excellent stuff under mcleish. Why have we now started going for managers that dont put any emphasis on how we play, when has that ever worked for us? When have the fans ever bought into this type of manager?

Bostonhibby
23-04-2014, 07:16 PM
AGM time. Missed the annual AGM sacking last year.

:agree: We require blood to distract us from RP himself - if TB is doing ok it will be the stadium announcer again who will have to defeat a gladiator to survive, only to then be eaten by Rod's trusty lion that he keeps to assists him in all contract negotiations.

Jones28
23-04-2014, 07:21 PM
He brought in his own players and never picks them.

He brought in 3 loanees, one of whom has been better than most of other players this season.

hibeemikey21
23-04-2014, 07:23 PM
I honestly believe if we beat hearts on Sunday the whole thing will turn around . C'mon butchers boys .

Me too.

It was the Dundee utd away capitulation that started this awful decline. Before then, under Butcher, things were going well.

Hopefully a favourable result can reverse it

hibbymick
23-04-2014, 07:27 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

Are you the same Greenforgo who doesnt seem to know where you sit at the games ??????

matty_f
23-04-2014, 07:28 PM
Out of all the seasons he's been a manager, he's had 1 decent one, pure luck or has it taken him that long to figure out how to do it, personally after seeing what he's done thus far, I'm very apprehensive.

That first sentence isn't even in the same vicinity as fact.

bingo70
23-04-2014, 07:30 PM
That first sentence isn't even in the same vicinity as fact.

Not far off it imo.

Ronniekirk
23-04-2014, 07:33 PM
Are you the same Greenforgo who doesnt seem to know where you sit at the games ??????
Yep you can spot him no problem can't even disguise comment Would be as well have a rubber stamp as avatar .next post will be in a memorandum of understanding style .

Onion
23-04-2014, 07:39 PM
If Butcher gets us relegated, it will be an absolute disgrace and disaster for Hibs, but expect Petrie to stick with Butcher. Players will get released, saving wages, and costs cut back to the bone. There will be no "great adventure" statement by Petrie, just cutbacks. 5000 crowds will become the norm, along with beatings from Sevco and Bidco in the Championship. The game will be up for Hibs as we know it. STF and Petrie's work will be complete.

oregonhibby
23-04-2014, 07:41 PM
I am told at half time the entire team came out 5 mins before kick off and went to the centre circle. TB stood at the side and eyeballed them.

Is this true?

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 07:47 PM
I go back to my point in my previous post though about Butcher being selected by the Hibs board less than six months ago, and being prized away from a club that he had done a great job at for the last couple of years. On the face of it, Terry Butcher was a great choice for Hibs.

He had done a great job at Inverness on a very small budget, he has a good standing within the game itself and knows Scottish football inside out after spending much of the last 20 years up here both as a player and manager.

I wholeheartedly stand by my original point which is that if Terry Butcher ends up being another failed appointment for Hibs, we absolutely must have a change at the top of the club.

This cannot be allowed to continue.

Had he done a great job? To me he had 1 good season and a good start to this season.

If you look at his prev track record, his only success really is last season at ICT finishing 4th. His highest league placing with Motherwell was 6th. That's not bad but hardly great. He finished bottom with Motherwell & ICT in his 1st season with both.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 07:50 PM
If Butcher gets us relegated, it will be an absolute disgrace and disaster for Hibs, but expect Petrie to stick with Butcher. Players will get released, saving wages, and costs cut back to the bone. There will be no "great adventure" statement by Petrie, just cutbacks. 5000 crowds will become the norm, along with beatings from Sevco and Bidco in the Championship. The game will be up for Hibs as we know it. STF and Petrie's work will be complete.

We've still got about 12 still in contract at the end of the season. We'll have to pay them off

J-C
23-04-2014, 07:59 PM
That first sentence isn't even in the same vicinity as fact.

Have you actually looked at his managerial record, apart from the past 12 months his previous would make you steer well clear of him.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 08:00 PM
That first sentence isn't even in the same vicinity as fact.

Tbf Matty,it's not far off. other than Motherwell & ICT in the longest he's lasted anywhere was Coventry & that was 13 months. Was binned pronto at Sunderland, Brentford & Sydney which is a good indicator at how well he's done.

As I said in another post, finished bottom with both ICT & Motherwell. His best finish at Motherwell was 6th. Ok but not great.

He's had a couple of mediocre seasons but last season was really the only one that you call remotely impressive

NadeAteMyLunch!
23-04-2014, 08:05 PM
I take a little bit of comfort from the fact that Brendan Rodgers didn't have a great first season at Liverpool(admittedly nowhere near as chronic as Butcher's). I take a big bit of comfort from the fact that Reading emptied Rodgers after 10 months. He's clearly a quality manager, success is not always instant though

bingo70
23-04-2014, 08:06 PM
Tbf Matty,it's not far off. other than Motherwell & ICT in the longest he's lasted anywhere was Coventry & that was 13 months. Was binned pronto at Sunderland, Brentford & Sydney which is a good indicator at how well he's done.

As I said in another post, finished bottom with both ICT & Motherwell. His best finish at Motherwell was 6th. Ok but not great.

He's had a couple of mediocre seasons but last season was really the only one that you call remotely impressive

I could never understand the clammer on here to appoint him for that reason.

There'll be plenty hypocrits on here going nuts about petrie getting it wrong again when he's the one most wanted.

At least i know i can get hysterical with a clean conscious ;-)

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 08:09 PM
I could never understand the clammer on here to appoint him for that reason.

There'll be plenty hypocrits on here going nuts about petrie getting it wrong again when he's the one most wanted.

At least i know i can get hysterical with a clean conscious ;-)

Neither did I but I, particularly due to the style of football he employed. I just put it down to the fact that due to RP's other appointments being so bad that our standards had dropped.

Onion
23-04-2014, 08:11 PM
We've still got about 12 still in contract at the end of the season. We'll have to pay them off

They will have clauses in their contracts allowing them to walk for free in the case of relegation = no cost to Petrie. Everyone happy :greengrin Don't you recall the mass exodus the last time we went down.... like rats off a sinking ship.

eastterrace
23-04-2014, 08:20 PM
They will have clauses in their contracts allowing them to walk for free in the case of relegation = no cost to Petrie. Everyone happy :greengrin Don't you recall the mass exodus the last time we went down.... like rats off a sinking ship.

trying to think who jumped ship the last time we went down but cant really think of anybody, could you refresh my memory.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 08:21 PM
They will have clauses in their contracts allowing them to walk for free in the case of relegation = no cost to Petrie. Everyone happy :greengrin Don't you recall the mass exodus the last time we went down.... like rats off a sinking ship.

I doubt it. They'll earn a lot more here than at St Johnstone for example.

Mr White
23-04-2014, 08:22 PM
trying to think who jumped ship the last time we went down but cant really think of anybody, could you refresh my memory.

Willie miller and darren dods iirc

Aldo
23-04-2014, 08:22 PM
Willie miller and darren dods iirc

The very two!!!!

Onion
23-04-2014, 08:23 PM
trying to think who jumped ship the last time we went down but cant really think of anybody, could you refresh my memory.

Darren Dods for one. Never forgave him for that.

eastterrace
23-04-2014, 08:26 PM
Willie miller and darren dods iirc

is that it , willie miller was at hibs for nearly 13 years so wouldnt call him a rat as for darren not a big miss,

Mr White
23-04-2014, 08:35 PM
is that it , willie miller was at hibs for nearly 13 years so wouldnt call him a rat as for darren not a big miss,

Yeah it wasn't exactly a mass exodus.

Jim44
23-04-2014, 08:41 PM
If we stay up he has till X mas, if we get relegated, he's gone

:agree: I wouldn't give him till Christmas, 'tho, if we start losing most of our games.

Sir David Gray
23-04-2014, 08:52 PM
Had he done a great job? To me he had 1 good season and a good start to this season.

If you look at his prev track record, his only success really is last season at ICT finishing 4th. His highest league placing with Motherwell was 6th. That's not bad but hardly great. He finished bottom with Motherwell & ICT in his 1st season with both.

Inverness were already bottom when he took over in January 2009, they got relegated that season but came straight back up again the following season. With Motherwell, he did finish bottom in his first season but as you say, he did then get them to around mid-table in subsequent seasons and that was more than respectable considering that was a very tough period for Motherwell.

His record is not spectacular but is certainly one that is worthy of respect and I think he needs at least another year at least to see what he can do.

Winston Ingram
23-04-2014, 09:14 PM
Inverness were already bottom when he took over in January 2009, they got relegated that season but came straight back up again the following season. With Motherwell, he did finish bottom in his first season but as you say, he did then get them to around mid-table in subsequent seasons and that was more than respectable considering that was a very tough period for Motherwell.

His record is not spectacular but is certainly one that is worthy of respect and I think he needs at least another year at least to see what he can do.

They were bottom but only by a point.

I'm not saying it didn't deserve respect, just bang average. As the earlier poster said, he's only really had 1 impressive season.

flash
23-04-2014, 09:33 PM
Yet another thread with the same miserable gits saying the same miserable stuff.

If he does do well it will really piss a few folk off.

Jim44
23-04-2014, 10:06 PM
Yet another thread with the same miserable gits saying the same miserable stuff.

If he does do well it will really piss a few folk off.

Wrong! This miserable git will be delighted if he does do well. By all means take umbrage at folk expressing an opinion you don't agree with but don't put words in other folk's mouths.

eggbamyasi
23-04-2014, 10:13 PM
As I've said already, we cannot keep losing managers every couple of years, either voluntarily or otherwise. It does nothing to help us at all.

To put it simply, we can't afford to sack Butcher any time soon, in my opinion.

We picked him and his backroom team less than 6 months ago on the basis that he had worked wonders at a far smaller club than our own with much less resources at his disposal. We need to give him time over the summer to build his own team and then we need to see what happens next season as he goes about trying to implement his methods with his own team. This short term approach that we seem to have towards football management is not one that I support and the one thing that we need at Hibs, above everything else, is stability.

We have had six managers since Mowbray left and that was only seven and a half years ago. That's a ridiculous turnover to have and it needs to change.

If Terry Butcher leaves the club within the next couple of years, for any reason other than because he's been headhunted by a bigger club due to his success with us, then Rod Petrie and the rest of the club's hierarchy needs to leave with him.
Totally agree 100%


Yet another thread with the same miserable gits saying the same miserable stuff.

If he does do well it will really piss a few folk off.
Bang on . I really really hope he gets us into a solid quality squad over next couple of seasons and challenging for top 3 / 4 and cups ( which I believe he will ) and these seriously depressive doom and gloomers with constant negative comments , and I dont mean actual criticism of squad/players performances or tactics they dont like ,acutal real arguments worth debating .I mean the type of comment like the poster onions on this thread ,can be copy and pasted so they feel like right tits ................
Rant over :-D



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

IberianHibernian
23-04-2014, 10:28 PM
Don`t think he should ever have been appointed and think he`s had a really easy time from press ( maybe one of the reasons for appointing him was fact he seems to have friends in press ) otherwise we`d probably have sacked him by now but now is not the time to question appointment as everyone at club has to get together and get us out of present situation . If we`re relegated I asume he`ll resign , if we win play off I`d hope for the same and if we escape then it`s up to club to decide what to do ( I suspect we can`t afford to sack him since we`ve already spent a lot on compensation for a manager who has not boosted crowds , has seen team collapse in league and cup and transfer value of players fall too ) . If Petrie has any doubt at all he should get rid of him in summer and bring someone in who will really stimulate support ( and I don`t mean marketing thing like present season ticket campaign that must be proving to be a complete own goal and not just because of team`s form ) since another change in mid season would not be a good idea .

IberianHibernian
23-04-2014, 10:38 PM
Totally agree 100%


Bang on . I really really hope he gets us into a solid quality squad over next couple of seasons and challenging for top 3 / 4 and cups ( which I believe he will ) and these seriously depressive doom and gloomers with constant negative comments , and I dont mean actual criticism of squad/players performances or tactics they dont like ,acutal real arguments worth debating .I mean the type of comment like the poster onions on this thread ,can be copy and pasted so they feel like right tits ................
Rant over :-D



Sent from my GT-I9300 using TapatalkAre you saying that " challenging for top 3 or 4 after a couple of seasons " would be considered a success given low level of clubs in Scotland and fact TB was appointed after paying compensation and without interviewing other candidates because of his knowledge of league ? Yogi and Paddy Fenlon were sacked less than a year after having us in top 2 at Christmas so challenging for top 3 or 4 ( which could mean 4th to 6th ) doesn`t seem very ambitious . And what about style of play ? Whatever people say , fans want to see decent football , something we haven`t seen since TB arrived and I don`t think ICT have been a flashy team at any time either .

J-C
23-04-2014, 10:39 PM
Yet another thread with the same miserable gits saying the same miserable stuff.

If he does do well it will really piss a few folk off.

Not miserable just realistic, his CV aint that great apart from the past season and a half, I didn't want him but will give him the benefit, at the moment he's taken us from comfortable mid table to very close to relegation play off's. He screwed up by telling all the players he didn't want what their fate was going to be in January and since then, he's lost them and they've decide to stick 2 fingers up at him, poor management skills. If we survive then he'll have to start next season with a bang or he's in for one hell of a rough ride.

Scottie
23-04-2014, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=jc1;3981317]He screwed up by telling all the players he didn't want what their fate was going to be in January and since then, he's lost them and they've decide to stick 2 fingers up at him, poor management skills.

Is this the case or are the players in question just ***** in the first place ?

IberianHibernian
23-04-2014, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE=jc1;3981317]He screwed up by telling all the players he didn't want what their fate was going to be in January and since then, he's lost them and they've decide to stick 2 fingers up at him, poor management skills.

Is this the case or are the players in question just ***** in the first place ?The statistics clearly show ( compare first 11 league matches with same fixtures in 3rd round of matches after a transfer windowc and return of Harris and Cairney after injury ) that results are a lot worse . With a new manager who has considerable knowledge of league . Were the players ***** against Celtic just a few weeks before Butcher arrived ?

TornadoHibby
24-04-2014, 12:01 AM
Depends whether Rod takes a leaf out Manchester United's book and doesn't trust him to spend the budget wisely.

Seriously got to give him another full season to turn things around. Candidates for the Hibs manager job will be thin on the ground and if they're not then most of them will be gash.

That's what should happen before the end of this season IMO!

J-C
24-04-2014, 12:10 AM
[QUOTE=jc1;3981317]He screwed up by telling all the players he didn't want what their fate was going to be in January and since then, he's lost them and they've decide to stick 2 fingers up at him, poor management skills.

Is this the case or are the players in question just ***** in the first place ?


They were mid table, not playing very attractive football but under Fenlon we didn't look like relegation prospects, his 1st few games he did get a response from the players but since January when he told the majority they were not needed(either in January or come July) it's all went very pear shaped, when players decide not to play for the manager, you have to look at his management skills.

eggbamyasi
24-04-2014, 05:01 AM
Are you saying that " challenging for top 3 or 4 after a couple of seasons " would be considered a success given low level of clubs in Scotland and fact TB was appointed after paying compensation and without interviewing other candidates because of his knowledge of league ? Yogi and Paddy Fenlon were sacked less than a year after having us in top 2 at Christmas so challenging for top 3 or 4 ( which could mean 4th to 6th ) doesn`t seem very ambitious . And what about style of play ? Whatever people say , fans want to see decent football , something we haven`t seen since TB arrived and I don`t think ICT have been a flashy team at any time either .

Nope . Top 3/4 means 1st-4th ...........
And im happy if he has a team that plays direct attacking football and wins . Rather than flashy football as you put it . Both would be nice of course . Basically what im saying is , give the guy a chance , hes had six months with another coaches players and a pretty small squad positon wise too .
GGTTH :-D

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

SouthamptonHibs
24-04-2014, 05:40 AM
I think we should introduce a culture in Hibs that's all about winning (Italian & Spainish teams do this), if the goals of the club are not met the manager (head coach) is removed.

Goal of the club starting 24th April 2014. Must not lose or draw a derby!

Starting on Sunday; if you don't win the derby = punt him

Hail Hail

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 10:25 AM
There's really no excuse for not hitting the ground running next season. It will be his team and he's had 2/3rds of a season to analyse what key areas need addressed.

In saying that as long as their is clear signs of inprovement and we are in no danger of going down then he should probably get the whole season. If we start with a run like the current one the unfortunately we have to cut our losses, again.

Completely agree.

HappyHibby93
24-04-2014, 10:26 AM
People suggesting he should get 10 games is ridiculous. He has to be given the whole season, with objective of top 6. He should be given the opportunity to do that. The club needs stability, punting a manager after 10 solves nothing.

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 10:28 AM
He brought in his own players and never picks them.

He pretty much plays Watmore when fit and Haynes has started a few games though admittedly Boateng hasnt played much and looks a poor signing.

Keith_M
24-04-2014, 11:12 AM
I think it all depends on the players he's allowed to bring in during the summer. If he's not given the backing required in signings, it's Petrie that needs to go, not Butcher.

FWIW, I think if he is backed by the board in the summer, we should do OK next season.

TowerHibs
24-04-2014, 12:02 PM
I had my doubts before Butcher came in - as others have said, he has had one, maybe , decent seasons as a manager. include MM's record into that and it gets worse. However, the vast majority of people were all misty eyed at the thought of the dream team coming down from Inverness. Now, dont get me wrong, i was excited when he first came in, i thought at last an experienced guy with authority and a reputation to sort out our club. He said the right things, was immediately passionate about the club and started excellently.

Now things have went a bit pear-shaped and the panic stations are well and truely on.

What i would say, as a support, we tend to jump on band wagons very quickly rather than look at the cold hard facts properly. For example, the thought of jimmy Calderwood or Stuart McCall being Hibs manager sends people into panic mode. I look at JC coaching credentials for example - consistant top 6 with Aberdeen with a good run in Europe, well with Dumfy, saved Killie from the drop and done an unbelievable job in Holland. He must have good contacts from his time over there and there is no way he would have settled for one up front against 10 men in a vital game. For some reason though, JC is seen as a farcical appointment and not Hibs class.

I am not suggeting he should be our manager but it seems as soon as a hand full of people either like or dislike a manager then his actually record and ability gets overlooked.

Scottie
24-04-2014, 12:11 PM
I had my doubts before Butcher came in - as others have said, he has had one, maybe , decent seasons as a manager. include MM's record into that and it gets worse. However, the vast majority of people were all misty eyed at the thought of the dream team coming down from Inverness. Now, dont get me wrong, i was excited when he first came in, i thought at last an experienced guy with authority and a reputation to sort out our club. He said the right things, was immediately passionate about the club and started excellently.

Now things have went a bit pear-shaped and the panic stations are well and truely on.

What i would say, as a support, we tend to jump on band wagons very quickly rather than look at the cold hard facts properly. For example, the thought of jimmy Calderwood or Stuart McCall being Hibs manager sends people into panic mode. I look at JC coaching credentials for example - consistant top 6 with Aberdeen with a good run in Europe, well with Dumfy, saved Killie from the drop and done an unbelievable job in Holland. He must have good contacts from his time over there and there is no way he would have settled for one up front against 10 men in a vital game. For some reason though, JC is seen as a farcical appointment and not Hibs class.

I am not suggeting he should be our manager but it seems as soon as a hand full of people either like or dislike a manager then his actually record and ability gets overlooked.
I would say as a support we have been very very patient over the past decade or so bearing in mind the absolute dross we have had to put up with in that time and the lack of any success.

DanTheMan
24-04-2014, 12:15 PM
I am told at half time the entire team came out 5 mins before kick off and went to the centre circle. TB stood at the side and eyeballed them.

Is this true?

Yes

Jim44
24-04-2014, 12:33 PM
"I am told at half time the entire team came out 5 mins before kick off and went to the centre circle. TB stood at the side and eyeballed them."

If this is true, I would say that the games a bogey. It's one thing losing the dressing room but for the players to remonstrate in front of the fans, it shows the depth the club has sunk to.

MrRobot
24-04-2014, 01:01 PM
Full season at the very least. Punting him after 10 games with his own players is ridiculous. We then just get back to the same mess.

bingo70
24-04-2014, 01:03 PM
Full season at the very least. Punting him after 10 games with his own players is ridiculous. We then just get back to the same mess.

What happens if we are 10 points adrift at the bottom after 10 games.

If our current form.continues into next season thats not impossible.

silverhibee
24-04-2014, 01:29 PM
What happens if we are 10 points adrift at the bottom after 10 games.

If our current form.continues into next season thats not impossible.


If our current form continues then he may not be here next season.

Winston Ingram
24-04-2014, 02:35 PM
If our current form continues then he may not be here next season.

He's got a history of gettin punted pronto. Brentford & Sydney clearly saw enough to punt him after 6 months.

flash
24-04-2014, 02:49 PM
What happens if we are 10 points adrift at the bottom after 10 games.

If our current form.continues into next season thats not impossible.

Get down from the Forth Road Bridge ffs.

stevejordan
24-04-2014, 02:51 PM
I had my doubts before Butcher came in - as others have said, he has had one, maybe , decent seasons as a manager. include MM's record into that and it gets worse. However, the vast majority of people were all misty eyed at the thought of the dream team coming down from Inverness. Now, dont get me wrong, i was excited when he first came in, i thought at last an experienced guy with authority and a reputation to sort out our club. He said the right things, was immediately passionate about the club and started excellently.

Now things have went a bit pear-shaped and the panic stations are well and truely on.

What i would say, as a support, we tend to jump on band wagons very quickly rather than look at the cold hard facts properly. For example, the thought of jimmy Calderwood or Stuart McCall being Hibs manager sends people into panic mode. I look at JC coaching credentials for example - consistant top 6 with Aberdeen with a good run in Europe, well with Dumfy, saved Killie from the drop and done an unbelievable job in Holland. He must have good contacts from his time over there and there is no way he would have settled for one up front against 10 men in a vital game. For some reason though, JC is seen as a farcical appointment and not Hibs class.

I am not suggeting he should be our manager but it seems as soon as a hand full of people either like or dislike a manager then his actually record and ability gets overlooked.

It is not a matter of liking or disliking a Manager TB Was a very popular appointment what we as fans want is results and atractive free flowing football where players can pass the ball and move at pace.

First to go was the results after a decent start and the style of play adopted is hoofball one striker lack of creativity and lack of goals low confidence mistake after mistake and no Direction from the Manager.

Constant changes in line ups week after week has not helped and some fans have lost patience TB Needs time to clear out the dead wood time to bring in his own players so we can start afresh next season bringing him in half way through the season has not helped either.

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 02:54 PM
Get down from the Forth Road Bridge ffs.

:faf::faf:

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 02:56 PM
He's got a history of gettin punted pronto. Brentford & Sydney clearly saw enough to punt him after 6 months.

That is a long time ago though his most recent jobs in our league have been very good including building a team in ICT which has constantly horsed Hibs and played us off the park. It would be lunacy not to give him the appropriate time to do the same here. The way it is going with muppets thinking it ok to shout and advise :rolleyes: a new management team certainly isnt helping.

jeffers
24-04-2014, 03:03 PM
That is a long time ago though his most recent jobs in our league have been very good including building a team in ICT which has constantly horsed Hibs and played us off the park. It would be lunacy not to give him the appropriate time to do the same here. The way it is going with muppets thinking it ok to shout and advise :rolleyes: a new management team certainly isnt helping.

Maybe if they weren't making such an arse of things fans wouldn't feel the need to advise them. Unless of course you think bringing on a sub with less than 2 minutes to go at 0-2 is great management.

Spike Mandela
24-04-2014, 03:05 PM
That is a long time ago though his most recent jobs in our league have been very good including building a team in ICT which has constantly horsed Hibs and played us off the park. It would be lunacy not to give him the appropriate time to do the same here. The way it is going with muppets thinking it ok to shout and advise :rolleyes: a new management team certainly isnt helping.

In his first season at Motherwell they finished bottom of the league but weren't relegated as Falkirk didn't have a stadium deemed suitable for SPL. In his first season at ICT they got relegated.

In each there were mitigating circumstances but he has a history of bad starts at teams but then going on to build a good team. Hopefully history will repeat itself.

hibbypostie
24-04-2014, 03:13 PM
I am told at half time the entire team came out 5 mins before kick off and went to the centre circle. TB stood at the side and eyeballed them.

Is this true?



not that I saw. sounds a bit ridiculous so I doubt it

Russ
24-04-2014, 04:11 PM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

It won't be long into next season when the question on here will be how long can we keep him, and all the bed wetters and fair weather fans are singing a different tune.

greenpaper55
24-04-2014, 04:14 PM
It won't be long into next season when the question on here will be how long can we keep him, and all the bed wetters and fair weather fans are singing a different tune.

That will be "please stay" !.

bingo70
24-04-2014, 04:28 PM
Get down from the Forth Road Bridge ffs.

Ha ha that made me laugh tbf.

I realise im being a miserable *******, ive just not seen anything to indicate things will be better next season. Thats from looking at our pish team and butchers managerial record.

Put those two together and the thought of giving him the whole season regatdless of how ***** we are i think is crazy.

Aldo
24-04-2014, 05:19 PM
Tbh this has not just happened over night or since Butcher and Malpas has taken over. We have been poor for seasons and on the downward spiral since winning the CIS Cup in 2007.

This is the accumulation of poor managers and poor players bought by these managers.

We are rotten to the core and for me it starts at the top.

TB is on a hiding to nothing and the players are as much to blame. They could at least try and show the fans what it means to play for the club.

If TB is sacked before the end of this season and is not given time then not just him but Petrie should go.

We've stagnated long enough IMHO.

Fwiw I think TB will be a success and turn us round but he needs time that's the problem he won't get it.

flash
24-04-2014, 05:41 PM
Ha ha that made me laugh tbf.

I realise im being a miserable *******, ive just not seen anything to indicate things will be better next season. Thats from looking at our pish team and butchers managerial record.

Put those two together and the thought of giving him the whole season regatdless of how ***** we are i think is crazy.

Ach things can only get better Bingo hopefully starting on Sunday.

Winston Ingram
24-04-2014, 06:20 PM
That is a long time ago though his most recent jobs in our league have been very good including building a team in ICT which has constantly horsed Hibs and played us off the park. It would be lunacy not to give him the appropriate time to do the same here. The way it is going with muppets thinking it ok to shout and advise :rolleyes: a new management team certainly isnt helping.

Not that long, Brentford & Sydney were just over 5 years ago. Since then he's managed to finish last, 10th & 4th.

As for horsing us, everybody has horsed us.

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 06:32 PM
Maybe if they weren't making such an arse of things fans wouldn't feel the need to advise them. Unless of course you think bringing on a sub with less than 2 minutes to go at 0-2 is great management.


Is he the only manager that does that?

JimBHibees
24-04-2014, 06:37 PM
Not that long, Brentford & Sydney were just over 5 years ago. Since then he's managed to finish last, 10th & 4th.

As for horsing us, everybody has horsed us.

He was sacked from Brentford over 6 years ago.

He took over Inverness when bottom they got relegated they then won the First division and since then had them 10th, 4th and then 2nd when he left. Seems like the sort of progress this club needs however IMO he needs time to change the culture and get his own folk in. Sometimes progress takes time.

Winston Ingram
24-04-2014, 06:52 PM
He was sacked from Brentford over 6 years ago.

He took over Inverness when bottom they got relegated they then won the First division and since then had them 10th, 4th and then 2nd when he left. Seems like the sort of progress this club needs however IMO he needs time to change the culture and get his own folk in. Sometimes progress takes time.

Pat Fenlon was 2nd in November last season.

Apart from a couple of mediocre seasons at Motherwell he's essentially had 1 impressive season in top flight football in his entire career as a manager.

Eyrie
24-04-2014, 06:52 PM
I think we should introduce a culture in Hibs that's all about winning (Italian & Spainish teams do this), if the goals of the club are not met the manager (head coach) is removed.

Goal of the club starting 24th April 2014. Must not lose or draw a derby!

Starting on Sunday; if you don't win the derby = punt him

Hail Hail

Why restrict that to the manager? It would be an excellent incentive for our underperforming players as well, and they're the ones out on the pitch who can influence the game.

Monts
24-04-2014, 07:13 PM
Did he not also have a massive unbeaten run away from home?

weonlywon6-2
24-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Did he not also have a massive unbeaten run away from home?

Yes he did,over a year.

At the time butcher was appointed he was by far and away the beat choice imho and i still belive he will turn things round.
I agree saying to the players they are poor was not the best idea but maybe he did it to spur them on,or are they quite simply not good enough players.

#2 Double Tap
24-04-2014, 07:51 PM
http://youtu.be/Xv-OTq1AxkU

The Omega Man
24-04-2014, 07:59 PM
He was a shocking manager when he was at Sunderland. I have no idea how he has been able to carve out such a career in Scotland and end up at a good club like Hibs.

Ronniekirk
24-04-2014, 08:00 PM
Yes he did,over a year.

At the time butcher was appointed he was by far and away the beat choice imho and i still belive he will turn things round.
I agree saying to the players they are poor was not the best idea but maybe he did it to spur them on,or are they quite simply not good enough players.
With Butcher and time as thread headline it feels a bit like all we are doing just now is marking time .He needs to show he can pick right team ,get tactics right ,motivate them and change it when needed .If he sits slumped on his seat with head in hands it l looks like he hasn't a clue what to do

#2 Double Tap
24-04-2014, 08:09 PM
With Butcher and time as thread headline it feels a bit like all we are doing just now is marking time .He needs to show he can pick right team ,get tactics right ,motivate them and change it when needed .If he sits slumped on his seat with head in hands it l looks like he hasn't a clue what to do Did you click the youtube link :P

Ronniekirk
24-04-2014, 09:49 PM
Did you click the youtube link :P
Now is the Time .Lets Do It :thumbsup: :wink:

matty_f
24-04-2014, 10:14 PM
He was a shocking manager when he was at Sunderland. I have no idea how he has been able to carve out such a career in Scotland and end up at a good club like Hibs.

His appointment was a bit out of left-field?

Winston Ingram
25-04-2014, 06:58 AM
His appointment was a bit out of left-field?

He was playing for them after he was sacked by Coventry. Took over as caretaker and after a few decent results was given the job.

AndyM_1875
25-04-2014, 07:07 AM
He was playing for them after he was sacked by Coventry. Took over as caretaker and after a few decent results was given the job.

And to be fair both these clubs at the time he was there were undergoing huge boardroom fights & had money troubles. Hardly fair on him to judge against either of those situations.

Steve-O
25-04-2014, 07:19 AM
I really he turns things around once he gets his own players in and as long as we stay up!!! How much time do the fans give him during next season???

:jamboid:

Winston Ingram
25-04-2014, 07:50 AM
And to be fair both these clubs at the time he was there were undergoing huge boardroom fights & had money troubles. Hardly fair on him to judge against either of those situations.

It was also 20 + years ago

MrRobot
25-04-2014, 05:47 PM
Let's face it, one if his biggest mistakes has been telling the players he is rebuilding. When he came in, performances were better and we were getting results. He then publicly stated about players not having a future and its gone downhill. Once he has his own players, I am positive he will turn things around and be a success at Hibs.