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View Full Version : Let us swallow whatever pill Aberdeen had to take



Viva_Palmeiras
19-04-2014, 06:08 PM
As I've said before I view Aberdeen a bit of a basket case club much like ourself albeit perhaps one with financial stuff in the post.

Point is they've gone thought the Ebbe Skovdahls, Peles, Porterfield, Alex Miller, Willie Miller, Tango man, McGhee and faced some pretty humiliating defeats in Europe and in the cups to lower opposition given they are the famous Aberdeen.

I spent a year in Aberdeen. It's the only other home terracing I've stood on. Although they yearn for yesteryear much like us they appreciate decent football and have been made seek by the managers mentioned and the board (Smithy must go not their finest hour perhaps given how close he took them).

so whatever pill they've swallowed so must we IMHO. Gotta pull ourselves outta this nose dive and changing the pilot as we've done previously wouldn't appear to be the answer at first glance.

Ps thanks Hibs for a crap result on my birthday but hey why should today be different from other Saturdays this season? Perhaps cos we're in the brown stuff?

Pps apologies if events have moved on I had the kids to contend with since I started typing about 1.5 hrs ago.

truehibernian
19-04-2014, 06:15 PM
They weren't a basket case under Calderwood though - consistently top 6, in Europe, drew with Bayern, had decent results in Europe compared to us......his cup failures were his undoing. Some could argue that Brown started off the rebuild that they are enjoying the fruits of this year.

Doesn't matter what anyone says, Jimmy Calderwood was decent. Players wanted to play for him too. I was in his company on a Dunfermline night out years ago and he was with the players, good spirits, his players all seemed to warm to him. Good team spirit. Incidentally I heard that Brown wouldn't go near Hibs if asked - because he feared lack of board ambition.

Aberdeen are underachievers, but they invested in players this last 2 'non The Rangers' years - we didn't. We yet again scrabbled around the bargain basement of football and waited until the last moments of the window after players turned us down.

Hibercelona
19-04-2014, 06:25 PM
I don't think this is the same.

Aberdeen may have been underachieving up until recently, but they weren't so bad that they were staring relegation in the face like we are now. In fact, for all of their mediocrity, they've still finished above us more often than not over the last several years.

Thats twice in quick succession that we've been faced with the scare of relegation. This season and the 2011/12 season. Aberdeen haven't came close to that point in any recent years.

The pill we're being made to swallow is far more bitter.

Nelly070
19-04-2014, 06:39 PM
I don't think this is the same.

Aberdeen may have been underachieving up until recently, but they weren't so bad that they were staring relegation in the face like we are now. In fact, for all of their mediocrity, they've still finished above us more often than not over the last several years.

Thats twice in quick succession that we've been faced with the scare of relegation. This season and the 2011/12 season. Aberdeen haven't came close to that point in any recent years.

The pill we're being made to swallow is far more bitter.

They missed relegation by the skin of their teeth through league reconstruction !!

SAUZEH
19-04-2014, 07:13 PM
I believe that what we are seeing at Hibs is the result of having an effective dictatorship at the club that has lasted for 23 years. I bought my first season ticket the day after Sir Tom Farmer bought the club from the receiver, and have just renewed last month for next season. I was grateful (to say the least) for his intervention at that time and there is much to appreciate in the way that the stadium and training centre has been built, something of a polar opposite to certain other teams. However, I never accepted the 'happy to watch Hibs play at Porty beach line'.

At the time Hibs were 'saved' STF's 90% shareholding (98% with Mr Petrie's) was an asset, but it has now long ceased to be, I'll explain:

First of all there is no challenge in the boardroom (a bit like our defence!). Mr Petrie is a yes man and has his strings pulled, so the few people who have a very small shareholding in the club only have their one evening a year to ask a question or two, but this is quite futile.
A properly functioning board of directors for a company like Hibs should have a number of meaningful shareholders, people (fans, supporters and sympathisers) who have invested substantially in the club and expect to see the right level of performance in every bit of what we do. The absence of any other meaningful shareholder who could challenge the status quo means that the rot has set in. The big items (stadium, HTC) are complete and therefore things like laziness, jobs for the boys and acceptance of mediocracy (that might be an improvement) set in [up and down the whole place]. Unfortunately the small shareholders in the company (a token gesture in any case from STF) become unwitting accomplices (if I had any shares, they'd be in the post back to STF with a letter of explanation tonight).
STF and Mr Petrie run things their way, other board members are either paid employees or the odd non-executive. The most curious current Non-Exec Director is the lady who is the employment lawyer. I've no doubt that she is a good Hibee, but really we need an employment lawyer rather than someone with knowledge of football, suitable experience, a creative thinker, someone who could talk to the management team in their language and then translate that back to the rest of the board and investors. Something is seriously wrong here. If I did ever attend a shareholder meeting I'd certainly want to ask them an uncomfortable question or two about their roles and qualifications.
This isn't something that a board away day to Peebles Hydro will solve. Instead I believe that there are people who would invest in Hibs, taking reasonable shareholding and contributing to small matters such as debt reduction (see Killie and Dundee Utd this season), asset investment and even to the teams.
We urgently need creative thinkers, people who can help Mr Petrie (I think we are stuck with him) challenge the SPFL/SFA. Incredibly Scottish football clubs have missed a major opportunity to address the fairness in financial matters since Scotland's shame disappeared. Why was money not cut for first place in the league, but it was for everyone else, clearly Lawell has been running the show. 11 other clubs could have decided that celtc took NO MONEY from the tv deal and ensure that first place was cut too, no doubt other income streams also could have been made fairer. They would not have liked it up them, but then do they enjoy playing in front of a quarter full stadium and hang on to their odd European nights!? Unfortunately only regulation of football will help to bring a slightly even playing field, but when we should be leading this on behalf of the rest, we instead master the own goals route to failure.

The immediate problems that we have on the pitch are increasingly likely to end in disaster. Terry Butcher has unfortunately not worked out, but I view him as much of a victim in this as anyone, that includes a rather poor set of players as well as most of us. Nothing will change until STF opens up the club to new investment and as importantly new thinking and less acceptance of failure.

There again it may just be that we were on f:@{)%g BBC Alba again

Feel free to agree, add to or disagree;

Cheers

Hibercelona
19-04-2014, 07:22 PM
They missed relegation by the skin of their teeth through league reconstruction !!

In recent years, Aberdeen haven't came close to relegation. They've been down there, but comfortable enough on points. Certainly not hanging on for dear life as we find ourselves doing now.

dmc1875
19-04-2014, 08:24 PM
I don't think you can compare us and Aberdeen. Aberdeen have never been in the positions we have found ourselves in over the last few years.

They've bought well sure, but I don't really buy all the hype about them. They are horrific to watch. They have some game changing players, but I would much rather watch Motherwell or Dundee Utd than them.

I feel our club needs changed top to bottom which wasn't the case at Aberdeen

Criswell
19-04-2014, 10:29 PM
I believe that what we are seeing at Hibs is the result of having an effective dictatorship at the club that has lasted for 23 years. I bought my first season ticket the day after Sir Tom Farmer bought the club from the receiver, and have just renewed last month for next season. I was grateful (to say the least) for his intervention at that time and there is much to appreciate in the way that the stadium and training centre has been built, something of a polar opposite to certain other teams. However, I never accepted the 'happy to watch Hibs play at Porty beach line'.

At the time Hibs were 'saved' STF's 90% shareholding (98% with Mr Petrie's) was an asset, but it has now long ceased to be, I'll explain:

First of all there is no challenge in the boardroom (a bit like our defence!). Mr Petrie is a yes man and has his strings pulled, so the few people who have a very small shareholding in the club only have their one evening a year to ask a question or two, but this is quite futile.
A properly functioning board of directors for a company like Hibs should have a number of meaningful shareholders, people (fans, supporters and sympathisers) who have invested substantially in the club and expect to see the right level of performance in every bit of what we do. The absence of any other meaningful shareholder who could challenge the status quo means that the rot has set in. The big items (stadium, HTC) are complete and therefore things like laziness, jobs for the boys and acceptance of mediocracy (that might be an improvement) set in [up and down the whole place]. Unfortunately the small shareholders in the company (a token gesture in any case from STF) become unwitting accomplices (if I had any shares, they'd be in the post back to STF with a letter of explanation tonight).
STF and Mr Petrie run things their way, other board members are either paid employees or the odd non-executive. The most curious current Non-Exec Director is the lady who is the employment lawyer. I've no doubt that she is a good Hibee, but really we need an employment lawyer rather than someone with knowledge of football, suitable experience, a creative thinker, someone who could talk to the management team in their language and then translate that back to the rest of the board and investors. Something is seriously wrong here. If I did ever attend a shareholder meeting I'd certainly want to ask them an uncomfortable question or two about their roles and qualifications.
This isn't something that a board away day to Peebles Hydro will solve. Instead I believe that there are people who would invest in Hibs, taking reasonable shareholding and contributing to small matters such as debt reduction (see Killie and Dundee Utd this season), asset investment and even to the teams.
We urgently need creative thinkers, people who can help Mr Petrie (I think we are stuck with him) challenge the SPFL/SFA. Incredibly Scottish football clubs have missed a major opportunity to address the fairness in financial matters since Scotland's shame disappeared. Why was money not cut for first place in the league, but it was for everyone else, clearly Lawell has been running the show. 11 other clubs could have decided that celtc took NO MONEY from the tv deal and ensure that first place was cut too, no doubt other income streams also could have been made fairer. They would not have liked it up them, but then do they enjoy playing in front of a quarter full stadium and hang on to their odd European nights!? Unfortunately only regulation of football will help to bring a slightly even playing field, but when we should be leading this on behalf of the rest, we instead master the own goals route to failure.

The immediate problems that we have on the pitch are increasingly likely to end in disaster. Terry Butcher has unfortunately not worked out, but I view him as much of a victim in this as anyone, that includes a rather poor set of players as well as most of us. Nothing will change until STF opens up the club to new investment and as importantly new thinking and less acceptance of failure.

There again it may just be that we were on f:@{)%g BBC Alba again

Feel free to agree, add to or disagree;

Cheers

Well Said! I agree with every word.

SAUZEH
19-04-2014, 10:51 PM
Well Said! I agree with every word.

Thank you

IberianHibernian
19-04-2014, 11:08 PM
Aberdeen`s record in both cups has been terrible for a good few years and we knocked them out of SC cup twice with Fenlon . In the league they have been as bad or worse than us for a few years too . Even this year , they don`t seem that great in a year with no The Rangers or competition from Edinburgh . Players like Robson are quite old too - can they afford good replacements ? Whay is true is that it`s very difficult being one of the clubs in 2nd category ( in Scotland Aberdeen and Edinburgh clubs ) where expectations are higher but financial benefits only a little more than slightly smaller clubs . In Spain , Atlético Madrid will hopefully win league this year but they spent 2 years in the second división just a few years ago , likewise Valencia and both Seville clubs . Even when overspending Hearts struggled to make top 6 in 2012 and only played us in SC final after tremendous luck in every round on way . We`re supposed to have an advantage over rivals like Aberdeen having good stadium and training ground but so far haven`t made use of advantage .

Phil D. Rolls
19-04-2014, 11:48 PM
They weren't a basket case under Calderwood though - consistently top 6, in Europe, drew with Bayern, had decent results in Europe compared to us......his cup failures were his undoing. Some could argue that Brown started off the rebuild that they are enjoying the fruits of this year.

Doesn't matter what anyone says, Jimmy Calderwood was decent. Players wanted to play for him too. I was in his company on a Dunfermline night out years ago and he was with the players, good spirits, his players all seemed to warm to him. Good team spirit. Incidentally I heard that Brown wouldn't go near Hibs if asked - because he feared lack of board ambition.

Aberdeen are underachievers, but they invested in players this last 2 'non The Rangers' years - we didn't. We yet again scrabbled around the bargain basement of football and waited until the last moments of the window after players turned us down.

He leaves clubs in precarious financial positions though. However, that doesn't seem to matter, in the scheme of things.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-04-2014, 01:00 AM
FWIW I compare ourselves to Aberdeen from the perspective of an expectant fanbase. A club, rightly or wrongly that has experienced a halcyon period or periods that whets the appetite for the future - albeit too infrequently realised.

The "pill" I suspect we have to swallow is :

1) things ain't what they used to be

2) past reputations count for nothing

3) players required must match the reasonable expectations of the fans - ie no point in buying Keenan-type players - either buy better or develop youth and blend into the team. Whilst we the fans (yet again) suck up the time this takes...

4) despite past Hibstory and disappointments, patience (yet again!!! Is required - see point 3 )

5) the player and management "cheap option" has been exhausted, whilst financially it may be an option, it has cost us in the long run and we need to find an altenative path.

So perhaps all fine enough but "how soon is now?!"