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View Full Version : Take the Hearts -15pts out of the Q



Delboy4
03-04-2014, 01:29 PM
Just thinking to myself, If Hearts didn't get the -15 pts deduction at the start of the season...we would only be 9 ponits ahead of them AND they are playing an U20's side - how f***in bad is that in our part..?!?


You have to hand it to them (and I hate them with a vengance) but they always seem to give that bit extra on the park, esp when they play us. How can our players not bloody give it too?


Christ, our players should be saying to themselves, lets get out there and bully these young boys, steamroller them and put 3 or 4 past them.

But no, there's no fight, no cockyness about our our team, we can't pass the ball through the channels for our forwards to make runs in behind the oppositions defence...absolutely NOTHING.


Sorry to be so negative, but this is really annoying me now...what the hell is going on at our club?


I've ben watching/following Hibs for 43 years now and it really grates on you when they do not try a f***in leg!


God, we can only get better...I hope.


Don't even feel better after that rant. Lol


GGTTH


:flag::flag::flag::flag:

IWasThere2016
03-04-2014, 01:31 PM
Yes - we are pish.

CallumLaidlaw
03-04-2014, 01:33 PM
Just thinking to myself, If Hearts didn't get the -15 pts deduction at the start of the season...we would only be 9 ponits ahead of them AND they are playing an U20's side - how f***in bad is that in our part..?!?


You have to hand it to them (and I hate them with a vengance) but they always seem to give that bit extra on the park, esp when they play us. How can our players not bloody give it too?


Christ, our players should be saying to themselves, lets get out there and bully these young boys, steamroller them and put 3 or 4 past them.

But no, there's no fight, no cockyness about our our team, we can't pass the ball through the channels for our forwards to make runs in behind the oppositions defence...absolutely NOTHING.


Sorry to be so negative, but this is really annoying me now...what the hell is going on at our club?


I've ben watching/following Hibs for 43 years now and it really grates on you when they do not try a f***in leg!


God, we can only get better...I hope.


Don't even feel better after that rant. Lol


GGTTH


:flag::flag::flag::flag:



Stop believing all this u20's p!sh. Their squad is not much younger than a fair few other premiership clubs.

smurf
03-04-2014, 01:36 PM
Yes - we are pish.

And have been for seven years with an owner and leader with no desire or idea how to change that. Except of course to tell more of us to buy season tickets.

Hibercelona
03-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Hearts have a "win at all costs" attitude when it comes to derbies. They do whatever it takes to win. They go out like warriors prepared to do battle.

Our players on the hand think that they're too upper class to get their boots dirty.

Diclonius
03-04-2014, 01:39 PM
And have been for seven years with an owner and leader with no desire or idea how to change that. Except of course to tell more of us to buy season tickets.

Yup. Rudderless management from top to bottom, with no desire or drive to change. That's Petrie and his yes men for you. :aok:

Saorsa
03-04-2014, 01:45 PM
And have been for seven years with an owner and leader with no desire or idea how to change that. Except of course to tell more of us to buy season tickets.correct, it's the person running this club that has dragged it down tae where it is while the owner does nothing and thinks he's doing a good job.

Delboy4
03-04-2014, 01:49 PM
Stop believing all this u20's p!sh. Their squad is not much younger than a fair few other premiership clubs.

I'm not using the U20's excuse, maybe worded it wrongly.


What I'm trying to point out is that they have quite a young team to ours...they have around a dozen players who are in their squad who usually play or on the bench that could be playing for the U20's!

Ozyhibby
03-04-2014, 01:50 PM
Don't think it's lack of effort that is our problem, it's lack of quality.

smurf
03-04-2014, 01:50 PM
correct, it's the person running this club that has dragged it down tae where it is while the owner does nothing and thinks he's doing a good job.

As others have said the objective of Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie is just our survival. There is no real objective for success. And if others say I'm talking tosh then it makes the record of this owner and chairman even more miserable.

Onion
03-04-2014, 02:04 PM
As others have said the objective of Sir Tom Farmer and Rid Petrie is just our survival. There is no real objective for success. And if others say I'm talking tosh then it makes the record of this owner and chairman even more miserable.

Agree with that. If we accept that Hibs win a trophy (the League Cup) every 20 years and get into Europe every 6 or 7 years (normally a waste of time), then Derby matches are the most important games on the calendar. Hearts recognise that, Hibs haven't a clue. It is quite a miserable existence supporting Hibs :greengrin

matty_f
03-04-2014, 02:10 PM
Can anyone find another way to point out how pish we are in case nobody has worked it out for themselves yet?

Pete
03-04-2014, 02:12 PM
Yes - we are pish.

It's amazing how many ways people are finding to say the same thing.

Why don't we take away their trophies, derby wins and false league positions achieved due to their years (not just the romanov ones) of overspending?

Just putting it out there in this sea of negativity.

marinello59
03-04-2014, 02:16 PM
Can anyone find another way to point out how pish we are in case nobody has worked it out for themselves yet?

How about a few of us wear T-Shirts saying 'Hibs are Pish' and chain ourselves to the railings outside the Scottish Parliament?

JustSimplyHibs
03-04-2014, 02:16 PM
Just thinking to myself, If Hearts didn't get the -15 pts deduction at the start of the season...we would only be 9 ponits ahead of them AND they are playing an U20's side - how f***in bad is that in our part..?!?


You have to hand it to them (and I hate them with a vengance) but they always seem to give that bit extra on the park, esp when they play us. How can our players not bloody give it too?


Christ, our players should be saying to themselves, lets get out there and bully these young boys, steamroller them and put 3 or 4 past them.

But no, there's no fight, no cockyness about our our team, we can't pass the ball through the channels for our forwards to make runs in behind the oppositions defence...absolutely NOTHING.


Sorry to be so negative, but this is really annoying me now...what the hell is going on at our club?


I've ben watching/following Hibs for 43 years now and it really grates on you when they do not try a f***in leg!


God, we can only get better...I hope.


Don't even feel better after that rant. Lol


GGTTH


:flag::flag::flag::flag:


Nonsense!!!!

Their average age on Sunday was probably 23 while ours would have been about 25... They've won bog all with their team which is older than ours who won the CIS - their average age was 22!!!!!

Fact of the matter is, their team was up for the Derby we weren't.... Even with a lay owner and a Chairman who was reluctant to replace the decent managers and quality players we lost in the lead upto end of 2007 season, WE are in a far better position than them - off the field!!!!! As for on it, even with the dross over the last seven years, WE are still playing in the same league as them (just) and have played in more finals and semi finals (a hazzard guess, cannae be bothered checking).

Anyway what does it matter about average age - they are professional football players who should be roughly of same ability however, ours at this moment in time lack passion, lack the ability to succeed and are pure inbalanced, too slow and play hoof the ball. That is what loses us games - our players have inability to keep the ball and keep giving it right back to our opponents, we also have the inability to break teams done - due to our lack of pace.

The crux of the matter is that WE never replaced our quality players seven years ago, replacing them with journeymen who are on the scrap heap of football - I blame the owner and Chairman for not replacing decent managers with decent managers who in return, have recruited enough players to assemble 5 teams that would struggle in the EoS leagues.

Gordy M
03-04-2014, 02:19 PM
So they would still be bottom of the table..is that the point you are making???:greengrin

Elephant Stone
03-04-2014, 02:21 PM
Hearts have a "win at all costs" attitude when it comes to derbies. They do whatever it takes to win. They go out like warriors prepared to do battle.

Our players on the hand think that they're too upper class to get their boots dirty.

:hilarious:hilarious

Since the warriors stopped paying suicidal wages we've won 3, lost 3 and drawn 3.

Pete
03-04-2014, 02:21 PM
How about a few of us wear T-Shirts saying 'Hibs are Pish' and chain ourselves to the railings outside the Scottish Parliament?

Yes.

...and hiring a plane.

smurf
03-04-2014, 02:25 PM
How about a few of us wear T-Shirts saying 'Hibs are Pish' and chain ourselves to the railings outside the Scottish Parliament?

There's definitely a commercial opportunity to this...

Spooky
03-04-2014, 02:34 PM
Can anyone find another way to point out how pish we are in case nobody has worked it out for themselves yet?

But, look at the number of injuries (of key players) we have had this season??

Bet there are not too many others who have suffered as much :boo hoo:

Spike Mandela
03-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Yes we are crap but it is nice to see a sanction for cheating actually working.:aok:

stevejordan
03-04-2014, 02:48 PM
correct, it's the person running this club that has dragged it down tae where it is while the owner does nothing and thinks he's doing a good job.

I Was not against Petrie but after the recent results and looking back on his tenure off the pitch yes he has done well but this has cost us on the pitch with lack of ambition and investment in the team he has tried and failed and it is now the time for him to step aside for a younger more enthusiastic motivated person to take our club by the scruff of the neck and get things moving in the right direction again.

Hibercelona
03-04-2014, 02:50 PM
:hilarious:hilarious

Since the warriors stopped paying suicidal wages we've won 3, lost 3 and drawn 3.

Since they've started playing young boys who are on a fraction of the wages that our players are, they've gotten the better of us in 3 of the last 4 encounters this season.

But please, laugh away. You seem to take joy from that fact.

Twa Cairpets
03-04-2014, 03:06 PM
Since they've started playing young boys who are on a fraction of the wages that our players are, they've gotten the better of us in 3 of the last 4 encounters this season.

But please, laugh away. You seem to take joy from that fact.

FFS.
Note also that Killie, St Mirren, Ross Cty and Partick are also closer to the brave young straplings, and have even managed to beat them but somehow - according to the league - are still mair p!sh than we are.

I don't define us about how we got on against Hearts - they beat us. It was ****, move on. On the day they were more up for it, as we were when we beat them last time. We lost. They've also not lost to Aberdeen this season. Do you define Aberdeen by how they got on against Hearts?

Despite this u20 guff, people forget they are professional footballers at a very big club, by scottish standards. Removing my green shades. they'e done f****** well as a team, and while they deserve nothing but the deepest opprobrium as a club, as a group of players they've outperformed what might have been expected.

I'll continue to laugh at the institution that is Hearts, thanks for your permission.

HUTCHYHIBBY
03-04-2014, 03:12 PM
I Was not against Petrie but after the recent results and looking back on his tenure off the pitch yes he has done well but this has cost us on the pitch with lack of ambition and investment in the team he has tried and failed and it is now the time for him to step aside for a younger more enthusiastic motivated person to take our club by the scruff of the neck and get things moving in the right direction again.

We've just got to have a bit of patience.

Elephant Stone
03-04-2014, 03:19 PM
Since they've started playing young boys who are on a fraction of the wages that our players are, they've gotten the better of us in 3 of the last 4 encounters this season.

But please, laugh away. You seem to take joy from that fact.

The warriors never beat us once last season, out of 5 matches. This season has been another transition and **** up all round for us and I don't consider it warrior-like to have beaten Hibs three times.

They've beaten Aberdeen more than us over the last two seasons, wonder if the Aberdeen forum is full of mopey sad sacks as well.

SaulGoodman
03-04-2014, 03:33 PM
This is a non argument because I thoroughly believe if we played our under 20's we'd b further up the table than we are now.

silverhibee
03-04-2014, 03:52 PM
How about a few of us wear T-Shirts saying 'Hibs are Pish' and chain ourselves to the railings outside the Scottish Parliament?

Hire a small plane to fly over the Capital with a big banner that say's "Hibs are Pish", that should get the message over.

Hibercelona
03-04-2014, 05:48 PM
The warriors never beat us once last season, out of 5 matches. This season has been another transition and **** up all round for us and I don't consider it warrior-like to have beaten Hibs three times.

They've beaten Aberdeen more than us over the last two seasons, wonder if the Aberdeen forum is full of mopey sad sacks as well.

I'm not just talking about right now. I'm talking about over the course of decades. They fight harder than we do and even when we're tipped as favourites to beat them, they somehow tip the odds in their own favour.

Why would Aberdeen fans be "mopey" about it? They're sitting 2nd in the league and it's not as if Hearts are their bitter rivals like they are too us.

But you better believe that i'm mopey about it. Because it makes me sick to my stomach that more often than not (even when we're favourites), Hearts get the better of us, simply because they fought harder.

Maybe if we actually got angry as a club, we'd show some real ******* passion for a change when it comes to derbies, instead of just accepting the usual pish as the norm.

Hibernia&Alba
03-04-2014, 05:51 PM
They've at least given it a go. Starting on minus fifteen points and a club on the verge of disappearing must be totally demoralizing, yet they've displayed spirit in the absence of quality. Their fans couldn't ask more of them, unlike us.

green day
03-04-2014, 06:07 PM
Aw **** this *****, honest to god, some of the people on this forum need to re examine their mindset over the summer.

Hearts are pish and certainly for the drop

We are currently pish and hopefully not for the drop

But as has been stated, last 9 games have been entirely even. All this 'under 20s nonsense' is just that - they are not playing under 20s, its all hype - and the hype has worked in gelling them into a unit.

We might (if the planets align) beat the dons and gain the mythical 3 points we seem to all think we need for safety.

Hearts might be relegated by the weekend

Hearts might be liquidated by next month

Who knows, just let our pishy season go and look forward

Phil D. Rolls
03-04-2014, 06:08 PM
And have been for seven years with an owner and leader with no desire or idea how to change that. Except of course to tell more of us to buy season tickets.

Shocking behaviour, given you have no choice whether to buy or not.

The Falcon
03-04-2014, 06:18 PM
The following is an advertisement for Save Hearts in Trouble and how wonderful they are compared to the evil Hibernian FC.



Just thinking to myself, If Hearts didn't get the -15 pts deduction at the start of the season...we would only be 9 ponits ahead of them AND they are playing an U20's side - how f***in bad is that in our part..?!?


You have to hand it to them (and I hate them with a vengance) but they always seem to give that bit extra on the park, esp when they play us. How can our players not bloody give it too?


Christ, our players should be saying to themselves, lets get out there and bully these young boys, steamroller them and put 3 or 4 past them.

But no, there's no fight, no cockyness about our our team, we can't pass the ball through the channels for our forwards to make runs in behind the oppositions defence...absolutely NOTHING.


Sorry to be so negative, but this is really annoying me now...what the hell is going on at our club?


I've ben watching/following Hibs for 43 years now and it really grates on you when they do not try a f***in leg!


God, we can only get better...I hope.


Don't even feel better after that rant. Lol


GGTTH


:flag::flag::flag::flag:

Kaiser1962
03-04-2014, 06:26 PM
I'm not using the U20's excuse, maybe worded it wrongly.


What I'm trying to point out is that they have quite a young team to ours...they have around a dozen players who are in their squad who usually play or on the bench that could be playing for the U20's!

Their average age on Sunday was 22.5 compared to our 25.1. We had Maybury (35) Nelson (34) and Williams (31) in our line up.

HFC 0-7
03-04-2014, 06:27 PM
Hearts have a "win at all costs" attitude when it comes to derbies. They do whatever it takes to win. They go out like warriors prepared to do battle.

Our players on the hand think that they're too upper class to get their boots dirty.

lets not get carried away, it's not Sparta! They show pride, we don't, they seem genuinely bothered where as our players look like they don't care and it's just another day at the office.

emerald green
03-04-2014, 06:35 PM
Don't think it's lack of effort that is our problem, it's lack of quality.

I think it's both. That, allied to a lack of drive, ambition and leadership, both on and off the pitch, and has been for years now. WHY? That's the $64,000 dollar question.

Ronniekirk
03-04-2014, 06:42 PM
Hearts have a "win at all costs" attitude when it comes to derbies. They do whatever it takes to win. They go out like warriors prepared to do battle.

Our players on the hand think that they're too upper class to get their boots dirty.

Maybe we need to call on the Last Sumuri and summon up that Warrior Spirit .:wink:
Don't know what your on about with we are too upper class to get Boots Dirty .i know we have some Public School Boys on our Books but that's just a ridiculous comment .

But agree that we lack a togetherness ,and some players might not be as committed to the cause ,but it's lack of confidence and T B s inability to sort this out that's as big a problem .Whether he can rejig Team for Don's game and have them fighting to close down space and find the right option up front so we at least pose a goal threat remains to be seen as we know we are not going to keep a clean sheet

matty_f
03-04-2014, 06:51 PM
lets not get carried away, it's not Sparta! They show pride, we don't, they seem genuinely bothered where as our players look like they don't care and it's just another day at the office.

To play Devil's Advocate a little bit here, by rights our players should have been considered to have cared enough to come back from a goal down to at least get a point against the Yams on Sunday.

It wasn't the players' fault that they didn't, they did enough to get the point but the linesman was a bell-end and so despite their efforts we got nowt.

(I have to confess that I only saw the second half which we controlled, rather than the first half where I understand we were rank).

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2014, 06:57 PM
To play Devil's Advocate a little bit here, by rights our players should have been considered to have cared enough to come back from a goal down to at least get a point against the Yams on Sunday.

It wasn't the players' fault that they didn't, they did enough to get the point but the linesman was a bell-end and so despite their efforts we got nowt.

(I have to confess that I only saw the second half which we controlled, rather than the first half where I understand we were rank).A point would be almost as bad, its embarrassing that we can't beat them comfortably.

The Falcon
03-04-2014, 07:17 PM
A point would be almost as bad, its embarrassing that we can't beat them comfortably.

How must Aberdeen be feeling?

rcarter1
03-04-2014, 07:29 PM
A point would be almost as bad, its embarrassing that we can't beat them comfortably.

As bad as Hearts are, they aren't as bad as all that. They haven't lost to Aberdeen all season, and generally haven't been turned over by many teams - Celtics 7-0 being the exception to that. I was hoping we could turn them over a few times this season, we were undefeated last season after all, but its a tight league and they have had the breaks in 3 of the derbies. Miserable as it is, they will do well to avoid liquidation - and if we can finally get our act together over the next season or two we could have our wicked way should they get back up.

leggeto
03-04-2014, 07:50 PM
Hearts have a "win at all costs" attitude when it comes to derbies. They do whatever it takes to win. They go out like warriors prepared to do battle.

Our players on the hand think that they're too upper class to get their boots dirty.

with a little help from the officials

ehf
03-04-2014, 08:37 PM
with a little help from the officials

And all the luck that's going.

HFC 0-7
03-04-2014, 08:45 PM
To play Devil's Advocate a little bit here, by rights our players should have been considered to have cared enough to come back from a goal down to at least get a point against the Yams on Sunday.

It wasn't the players' fault that they didn't, they did enough to get the point but the linesman was a bell-end and so despite their efforts we got nowt.

(I have to confess that I only saw the second half which we controlled, rather than the first half where I understand we were rank).


My point about them, is that it means more to them, yes we had a goal chopped off but apart from that we were not a threat. We didn't play well, we defended poorly, no direction, the list could go on. Thm on the other hand are not particularly good players but they fought and wanted it more. We had a chance to relegate these plums on their own patch and the players looked about as interested as they do in every other game .... Not very!

the hearts players seem to understand what it means to the fans. Our players don't look interested either way.

We need to drop the excuses, we are honking and even if that goal was allowed I wouldn't be confident of us pushing on in that game, in fact this season, if we were three up I wouldn't be confident until the final whistle blew!

SaulGoodman
03-04-2014, 08:48 PM
Wow this sites getting more like JkB by the day. What's with this Yam love in all of a sudden?

Is it just another way to feel sorry for ourselves?

Ronniekirk
03-04-2014, 08:50 PM
How must Aberdeen be feeling?
Smug They have won the league cup are still in the Scottish cup and second in the league They have Flood and Rooney but we didn't think they were worth contracts or the money they would have needed for wages, as we have Collins and Craig But let's wait and see how we fare on Monday night ,I may change my mind when we beat them :wink:

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2014, 08:59 PM
As bad as Hearts are, they aren't as bad as all that. They haven't lost to Aberdeen all season, and generally haven't been turned over by many teams - Celtics 7-0 being the exception to that. I was hoping we could turn them over a few times this season, we were undefeated last season after all, but its a tight league and they have had the breaks in 3 of the derbies. Miserable as it is, they will do well to avoid liquidation - and if we can finally get our act together over the next season or two we could have our wicked way should they get back up.By winning comfortably I don't mean turning them over, I mean 2-0, 3-1. Victories in which we are the better team and show it, nothing wrong with expecting that against the bottom of the league club.

Gordy M
03-04-2014, 09:07 PM
Wow this sites getting more like JkB by the day. What's with this Yam love in all of a sudden?

Is it just another way to feel sorry for ourselves?
Exactly mate, they would still be bottom and have been p*** for the vast majority of the season. Hopefully theyll be relegated this weekend, we win our next two and look forward to next season.

The Falcon
03-04-2014, 09:08 PM
Smug

The gentleman's point was that "its embarrassing that we can't beat them comfortably." yet Aberdeen, who are getting loads of plaudits on here (this season) fail to beat them at all.

I suspect that if we were sitting second and not beating the near relegated Yams all season this place would be screaming for blood.

smurf
03-04-2014, 09:32 PM
Shocking behaviour, given you have no choice whether to buy or not.

However, we do because we are the true custodians of the club. As the stats show though we are a diminishing army... Big summer wouldn't you agree?

Kaiser1962
03-04-2014, 09:38 PM
However, we do because we are the true custodians of the club. As the stats show though we are a diminishing army... Big summer wouldn't you agree?

What stats are these?

rcarter1
03-04-2014, 10:05 PM
By winning comfortably I don't mean turning them over, I mean 2-0, 3-1. Victories in which we are the better team and show it, nothing wrong with expecting that against the bottom of the league club.

Im with you on that, in that I thought/hoped Hibs would be good enough to do just that. Their record against Aberdeen who are clearly a decent side in this league however show that Hearts are 'good' enough to pull a few surprises now and again. One more derby coming up, lets just hope it turns out to be our day / we are really up for it.

smurf
03-04-2014, 10:05 PM
What stats are these?

Falling attendances and season ticket numbers.

Heedersnvolleys
03-04-2014, 10:07 PM
Don't think it's lack of effort that is our problem, it's lack of quality.

I think it is beginning to look like that, Collins saving grace was that he at least put a shift in, I don't think he has even done that in the last couple of games.

basehibby
03-04-2014, 10:08 PM
Hire a small plane to fly over the Capital with a big banner that say's "Hibs are Pish", that should get the message over.

Lets hire out Mr Methane to fart it out in morse code in talcum powder - using dots and dashes.

Kaiser1962
03-04-2014, 10:09 PM
Falling attendances and season ticket numbers.

Stats show that average attendances are up on last season, which were up on the season before that. Season ticket sales are on going at the moment with no figures published.

So what stats are you referring to?

smurf
03-04-2014, 11:25 PM
Stats show that average attendances are up on last season, which were up on the season before that. Season ticket sales are on going at the moment with no figures published.

So what stats are you referring to?

You seriously suggesting that since 2007 season ticket sales have not been on a downward trend?

Ronniekirk
03-04-2014, 11:36 PM
The gentleman's point was that "its embarrassing that we can't beat them comfortably." yet Aberdeen, who are getting loads of plaudits on here (this season) fail to beat them at all.

I suspect that if we were sitting second and not beating the near relegated Yams all season this place would be screaming for blood.
If we were good enough to be second top I wouldn't give a toss if we drew with Heats at Tyncastle as it would be an improvement on getting beat there more often than not :wink:

Jones28
03-04-2014, 11:46 PM
It's amazing how many ways people are finding to say the same thing.

Why don't we take away their trophies, derby wins and false league positions achieved due to their years (not just the romanov ones) of overspending?

Just putting it out there in this sea of negativity.

That still isn't really a comfort for me tbh

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 06:15 AM
You seriously suggesting that since 2007 season ticket sales have not been on a downward trend?

You never mentioned 2007 which was now 7 years ago and you only mention it when you realised that attendances had went up.

You stated "As the stats show though we are a diminishing army" when, over the past two seasons we have been increasing.

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 06:16 AM
If we were good enough to be second top I wouldn't give a toss if we drew with Heats at Tyncastle as it would be an improvement on getting beat there more often than not :wink:

If we hadn't beaten Hearts over a season do you wanna bet :wink:

smurf
04-04-2014, 07:29 AM
You never mentioned 2007 which was now 7 years ago and you only mention it when you realised that attendances had went up.

You stated "As the stats show though we are a diminishing army" when, over the past two seasons we have been increasing.

There has been marginal increases the last two years. However, we are well down on where we were recently. Indeed I would attribute cup finals to look forward to as contributing factors in the most recent seasons.

You only need to speak to folk or read postings to know that the Hibs support is completely fed up to the back teeth with the product being served. And many are staying away.

It's frankly laughable that you are challenging that by using short term stats to try and refute it.

Saorsa
04-04-2014, 07:57 AM
There has been marginal increases the last two years. However, we are well down on where we were recently. Indeed I would attribute cup finals to look forward to as contributing factors in the most recent seasons.

You only need to speak to folk or read postings to know that the Hibs support is completely fed up to the back teeth with the product being served. And many are staying away.

It's frankly laughable that you are challenging that by using short term stats to try and refute it.:agree: I guess we'll get a better idea where ST sales are this season (if they tell us) with nae cup final.



Here's just one set of figures for one fixture that I posted on another thread tae show what has happened tae crowds in the last 7 seasons

In 2007-08 we got 13,258 in our first hame fixture of the season against ICT, the next season it was 11,688, last season it was 9,908 and the equivalent fixture this season attracted a mere 8750.

4508, less people at the last game compared tae the 1st, these are all Saturday 3pm KO's

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 08:24 AM
There has been marginal increases the last two years. However, we are well down on where we were recently. Indeed I would attribute cup finals to look forward to as contributing factors in the most recent seasons.

You only need to speak to folk or read postings to know that the Hibs support is completely fed up to the back teeth with the product being served. And many are staying away.

It's frankly laughable that you are challenging that by using short term stats to try and refute it.

So 7 years is "recent" but 3 years is "short term"?

It was you that brought up the use of stats, not me.

number 27
04-04-2014, 08:33 AM
So 7 years is "recent" but 3 years is "short term"?

It was you that brought up the use of stats, not me.


It seems to me that this sums up our problems and illustrates why the supporters are becoming divided.

It must be obvious to all of us who go to games that crowds are falling, regular attenders are no longer going to ER and ST holders are unsure whether to renew. Instead of accepting this and looking at ways to reverse the trend we still get a worrying number of people trying to tell us that black is white, everything is fine and good times are just around the corner.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 08:59 AM
It seems to me that this sums up our problems and illustrates why the supporters are becoming divided.

It must be obvious to all of us who go to games that crowds are falling, regular attenders are no longer going to ER and ST holders are unsure whether to renew. Instead of accepting this and looking at ways to reverse the trend we still get a worrying number of people trying to tell us that black is white, everything is fine and good times are just around the corner.
That's not what he's saying at all. Smurf said we were a diminishing support, the facts don't back that up, so rather than accepting that Smurf changed the goalposts and now he's only wrong because we got to two cup finals (which obviously is the club's fault rather than something it should be given credit for).

There are a growing number of threads on here lamenting how pish we are. We all know it. Nobody is covering their eyes, plugging their ears and pretending everything is ok.

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:06 AM
So 7 years is "recent" but 3 years is "short term"?

It was you that brought up the use of stats, not me.

Oh well I am obviously wrong. If Sir Tom does sit down with our chairman at the end of the season and review performance they can both conclude we are most certainly on an upward curve...

Things are going well. All is Barry.

The reality is most within the support know that's not the reality.

I said that we are a diminishing army and I stand by that.

Geo_1875
04-04-2014, 09:12 AM
Since they've started playing young boys who are on a fraction of the wages that our players are, they've gotten the better of us in 3 of the last 4 encounters this season.

But please, laugh away. You seem to take joy from that fact.

And they have got the better of Aberdeen over the season.

However, they've also lost a lot of games.

If I was unfortunate enough to support them I'd be asking why they only try against Hibs and Aberdeen.

Sounds like they're cheating again.

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:16 AM
:agree: I guess we'll get a better idea where ST sales are this season (if they tell us) with nae cup final.



Here's just one set of figures for one fixture that I posted on another thread tae show what has happened tae crowds in the last 7 seasons

In 2007-08 we got 13,258 in our first hame fixture of the season against ICT, the next season it was 11,688, last season it was 9,908 and the equivalent fixture this season attracted a mere 8750.

4508, less people at the last game compared tae the 1st, these are all Saturday 3pm KO's

Thank you. We can all spin one way or another to satisfy our point of view. I just know a lot of folk that have stopped going. I know from speaking to others that they too know folk likewise. And many of us still going are doing so almost out of duty with no enthusiasm.

My original point is that this is a big summer for all of us. I hope every single supporter who can buys a season ticket to give the maximum amount of cash possible to the club. Furthermore we need to see real leadership from our owner Sir Tom Farmer and our chairman Rod Petrie. I don't doubt that they want to see a successful club. However, do they really want to make it happen? The objective has got to be much more than just survival.

If they are concluding such as a poster on here that our support is on the increase so there isn't a fundamental motivational issue then we are in dangerous territory.

Saorsa
04-04-2014, 09:29 AM
Thank you. We can all spin one way or another to satisfy our point of view. I just know a lot of folk that have stopped going. I know from speaking to others that they too know folk likewise. And many of us still going are doing so almost out of duty with no enthusiasm.

My original point is that this is a big summer for all of us. I hope every single supporter who can buys a season ticket to give the maximum amount of cash possible to the club. Furthermore we need to see real leadership from our owner Sir Tom Farmer and our chairman Rod Petrie. I don't doubt that they want to see a successful club. However, do they really want to make it happen? The objective has got to be much more than just survival.

If they are concluding such as a poster on here that our support is on the increase so there isn't a fundamental motivational issue then we are in dangerous territory.Here's another set

1st fixture of season against Dundee UTD 2007-08 14,440, 08-09 13,390, 12-13 10,596 (sunday early KO), this season, 9,171. 3pm Saturday KO's apart from the one mentioned.

5,269 less at the last game than the 1st, tells it's own story

matty_f
04-04-2014, 09:29 AM
:agree: I guess we'll get a better idea where ST sales are this season (if they tell us) with nae cup final.



Here's just one set of figures for one fixture that I posted on another thread tae show what has happened tae crowds in the last 7 seasons

In 2007-08 we got 13,258 in our first hame fixture of the season against ICT, the next season it was 11,688, last season it was 9,908 and the equivalent fixture this season attracted a mere 8750.

4508, less people at the last game compared tae the 1st, these are all Saturday 3pm KO's

How many away fans attended each? Taking one date (the opening game) as a barometer is hugely flawed as a basis for an argument.

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 09:31 AM
Oh well I am obviously wrong. If Sir Tom does sit down with our chairman at the end of the season and review performance they can both conclude we are most certainly on an upward curve...

Things are going well. All is Barry.

The reality is most within the support know that's not the reality.

I said that we are a diminishing army and I stand by that.

Who said that?

Clearly they are not.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 09:33 AM
Who said that?

Clearly they are not.

Wasting your time, chief.

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 09:34 AM
Here's another set

1st fixture of season against Dundee UTD 2007-08 14,440, 08-09 13,390, 12-13 10,596 (sunday early KO), this season, 9,171. 3pm Saturday KO's apart from the one mentioned.

5,269 less at the last game than the 1st, tells it's own story

Why stop at 2007 and not go prior to that? Its been the same hierarchy running the club for much longer.

Nobody is saying that we are doing well as clearly we are not.

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:35 AM
Who said that?

Clearly they are not.

Would you accept that motivational levels within the support are at an all time low after years of horrendous home results?

Saorsa
04-04-2014, 09:35 AM
How many away fans attended each? Taking one date (the opening game) as a barometer is hugely flawed as a basis for an argument.It, not the opening game of the season it's just equivalent fixtures for each season. There's another set against another team, same story.

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 09:38 AM
Would you accept that motivational levels within the support are at an all time low after years of horrendous home results?

Absolutely no argument with that.

You correctly state that this is a big summer (another one) so lets get through the season intact and give TB and his team the time they need.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 09:42 AM
It, not the opening game of the season it's just equivalent fixtures for each season. There's another set against another team, same story.

:aok: sorry I mis-read the post I quoted where I picked up on the opening fixture. Regardless, the point remains that taking single fixtures in isolation doesn't tell the whole story, overall attendance figures give a better barometer as do season ticket sales.

Saorsa
04-04-2014, 09:44 AM
:aok: sorry I mis-read the post I quoted where I picked up on the opening fixture. Regardless, the point remains that taking single fixtures in isolation doesn't tell the whole story, overall attendance figures give a better barometer as do season ticket sales.Do they for the last two season when they were boosted by the promise of cup final tickets? Where would they have been without that?

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:45 AM
Why stop at 2007 and not go prior to that? Its been the same hierarchy running the club for much longer.

Nobody is saying that we are doing well as clearly we are not.

Crowds had been in decline 2002-2004 and picked up impressively 2004-2007 thanks to good football at Easter Road.

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:50 AM
Wasting your time, chief.

Oh dear. Entirely expected...

I expressed an opinion I'd say shared by the majority of us with a love of our club that this is a big summer for our club. I suggested that our support was a diminishing army. I would say most feel that we are a support in decline.

The reply came back suggesting it was an upward trend.

For years you have been on here telling us all to calm down and all is well. It wasn't and it isn't.

Posts like that from yourself are a deliberate attempt to provoke. Tiresome.

smurf
04-04-2014, 09:52 AM
Do they for the last two season when they were boosted by the promise of cup final tickets? Where would they have been without that?

He knows exactly where they'd be.

Your wasting your time mate.

number 27
04-04-2014, 10:06 AM
There are a growing number of threads on here lamenting how pish we are. We all know it. Nobody is covering their eyes, plugging their ears and pretending everything is ok.


To be honest I think you are doing exactly that just as you do every pre-season when we have to "calm down" "give it time" "wait for the window to shut" etc etc. Those pointing out that we are heading for another poor season are inevitably proved correct.

Seriously trying to argue that we are not losing support simply flies in the face of what we are all seeing around us but still we have people trying to tell us it isn't happening:rolleyes:

Twa Cairpets
04-04-2014, 10:08 AM
Oh dear. Entirely expected...

I expressed an opinion I'd say shared by the majority of us with a love of our club that this is a big summer for our club. I suggested that our support was a diminishing army. I would say most feel that we are a support in decline.

The reply came back suggesting it was an upward trend.

For years you have been on here telling us all to calm down and all is well. It wasn't and it isn't.

Posts like that from yourself are a deliberate attempt to provoke. Tiresome.

Haven't looked at the trends, but I think anyone would be naive to think that the general disaffection after the past few seasons hasn't made some people say "enough is enough, I'm not enjoying this" and stop going. The impact of the cup finals are anyones guess, but you can't take them out of the equation any more than you can take the Dunfermline relegation match out, or the fact we've (maybe, not checked) had more home games v Ross County or St J. than, say Aberdeen or Hearts with bigger travelling supports. The disappearance oif Old Rangers is also a factor if comparing total attendances

The only meaningful statistic on this is, I think, our variance over a season since the LC final in 2007 in comparison to the variance in attendances for other clubs - sadly I have neither the inclination, time or ability to do the relevant statistical analysis. The fact that we have gone through an economic crisis in that period is also relevant, I think, and would be highlighted if there was a general reduction in attendances across the league.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 10:15 AM
Oh dear. Entirely expected...

I expressed an opinion I'd say shared by the majority of us with a love of our club that this is a big summer for our club. I suggested that our support was a diminishing army. I would say most feel that we are a support in decline.

The reply came back suggesting it was an upward trend.

For years you have been on here telling us all to calm down and all is well. It wasn't and it isn't.

Posts like that from yourself are a deliberate attempt to provoke. Tiresome.
:aok:

smurf
04-04-2014, 10:22 AM
Absolutely no argument with that.

You correctly state that this is a big summer (another one) so lets get through the season intact and give TB and his team the time they need.

Agreed. I am fully behind TB and hope everyone part of our club pulls out all the stops this summer. GGTTH

Keith_M
04-04-2014, 11:35 AM
How many away fans attended each? Taking one date (the opening game) as a barometer is hugely flawed as a basis for an argument.


Dundee United and ICT both filled the South Stand, 3,900 fans each, at the earlier matches but only brought around 200 at the most recent; obviously because of their diminishing stature in the intervening years. That accounts for most of the missing fans


:rolleyes:

clerriehibs
04-04-2014, 11:42 AM
It seems to me that this sums up our problems and illustrates why the supporters are becoming divided.

It must be obvious to all of us who go to games that crowds are falling, regular attenders are no longer going to ER and ST holders are unsure whether to renew. Instead of accepting this and looking at ways to reverse the trend we still get a worrying number of people trying to tell us that black is white, everything is fine and good times are just around the corner.


Starter for 10; Let's just scrap the half-baked boycott thread.

Wighty76
04-04-2014, 12:37 PM
Can anyone find another way to point out how pish we are in case nobody has worked it out for themselves yet?

I was thinking the same thing. OP don't get me wrong you made a fair point but we are so pish on so many levels that we are spoilt for choice when it comes to making negative comparisons with other teams.

I am as scunnered as everyone else.

:aok:

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 01:56 PM
It seems to me that this sums up our problems and illustrates why the supporters are becoming divided.

It must be obvious to all of us who go to games that crowds are falling, regular attenders are no longer going to ER and ST holders are unsure whether to renew. Instead of accepting this and looking at ways to reverse the trend we still get a worrying number of people trying to tell us that black is white, everything is fine and good times are just around the corner.

Who said everything was fine?

Mikey
04-04-2014, 02:39 PM
There are a growing number of threads on here lamenting how pish we are. We all know it. Nobody is covering their eyes, plugging their ears and pretending everything is ok.

And none of them have a plan for fixing it, other than staying away.

Kaiser1962
04-04-2014, 03:11 PM
Dundee United and ICT both filled the South Stand, 3,900 fans each, at the earlier matches but only brought around 200 at the most recent; obviously because of their diminishing stature in the intervening years. That accounts for most of the missing fans


:rolleyes:


Is this a whoosh moment?

I realise it loses something if you have to be asked.......:greengrin

The Modfather
04-04-2014, 03:17 PM
And none of them have a plan for fixing it, other than staying away.

Are your eyes painted on? How many threads and posts are there with people questioning the role of Petrie, and to a lesser extent Farmer?

Or lets just keep throwing our money at the problem and churning through managers.

The first positive step that could be made to rectify the last 7 years is Petrie stepping down. Failing that, Farmer becoming more involved/setting the bar an awfull lot higher and Petrie being more transparent as to his bulls**t "5 year plan", but that would mean him possibly being accountable for something.

Butcher is yet to fully convince me, but he is trying to turn water into wine with this squad. Lets see how his own squad begins to take shape. There's an awfull lot of places to point the finger at before it gets to the manager.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 03:18 PM
Oh dear. Entirely expected...

I expressed an opinion I'd say shared by the majority of us with a love of our club that this is a big summer for our club. I suggested that our support was a diminishing army. I would say most feel that we are a support in decline.

The reply came back suggesting it was an upward trend.

For years you have been on here telling us all to calm down and all is well. It wasn't and it isn't.

Posts like that from yourself are a deliberate attempt to provoke. Tiresome.

Not even remotely true.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 03:20 PM
Do they for the last two season when they were boosted by the promise of cup final tickets? Where would they have been without that?

Of course they do - the sales were on the back of (relative) on-field success in the cups. They were a directly impacted on what the team did.

Similarly, without that success and with the poor performances on the pitch, I fully expect the season ticket numbers to drop for next season

Mikey
04-04-2014, 03:24 PM
The first positive step that could be made to rectify the last 7 years is Petrie stepping down. Failing that, Farmer becoming more involved/setting the bar an awfull lot higher and Petrie being more transparent as to his bulls**t "5 year plan"..............



How do you propose to do make that happen?

I do what I can to help the club and that's to buy a season ticket. I fail to see what more I can do.

Firing personal abuse at me for doing that might make you feel better but it doesn't achieve anything.

The Modfather
04-04-2014, 03:42 PM
How do you propose to do make that happen?

I do what I can to help the club and that's to buy a season ticket. I fail to see what more I can do.

Firing personal abuse at me for doing that might make you feel better but it doesn't achieve anything.

Personal abuse??

I've not contributed to any of the calls for boycotts, nor am I advocating one now. I am merely speaking for myself. The days of my blind loyalty are long gone, I now want value for my money, and more importantly, time. Until there is a product worth watching (style, fitness, passing etc, not necessarily results or specific league placings) I'll keep my money.

I'm not alone in that. In the same way Mixu was apparently sacked for poor season ticket sales, poor early sales this year might force Petrie's hand to consider his own position. I feel no guilt in keeping my money, nor am I making proclamations that Hibs should be finishing here or there next season. Come what may we will have a budget that is at least bigger/comparative to 3/4 of the league. Thus, in my mind, there are no excuses for the club not punching it's weight in relation to it's budget.

There's no boycott from me, just a fan drifting away in large part to Petrie's mismanagement the last 7 years. No longer does the prospect of a new manager give me the exitment of a new dawn. The only genuine new dawn will begin once Petrie steps down.

smurf
04-04-2014, 03:47 PM
And none of them have a plan for fixing it, other than staying away.

Not true. This season for the first time in twenty years I have no season ticket. I have bought two for next season. I hope we all if we can buy season tickets to ensure every penny that can be out in the pot goes in the pot.

However, off the park we need to see leadership from our owner and chairman.

Mikey
04-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Not true. This season for the first time in twenty years I have no season ticket. I have bought two for next season. I hope we all if we can buy season tickets to ensure every penny that can be out in the pot goes in the pot.

Good stuff. I wish more would!



However, off the park we need to see leadership from our owner and chairman.

Not going to happen. I also don't see how we're going to shift either of them.

However, if anyone can get STF's ear and have a reasoned conversation with him they may at least have a chance of getting the message over.

Keith_M
04-04-2014, 03:59 PM
Is this a whoosh moment?

I realise it loses something if you have to be asked.......:greengrin


Yep, looks like it. Read through some earlier posts and you'll get the point :wink:

marinello59
04-04-2014, 04:05 PM
Not going to happen. I also don't see how we're going to shift either of them.

However, if anyone can get STF's ear and have a reasoned conversation with him they may at least have a chance of getting the message over.

That doesn't mean it's impossible though. Something has to change at the top in terms of attitude at least or we will remain in transition for years.

matty_f
04-04-2014, 04:18 PM
To be honest I think you are doing exactly that just as you do every pre-season when we have to "calm down" "give it time" "wait for the window to shut" etc etc. Those pointing out that we are heading for another poor season are inevitably proved correct.

Seriously trying to argue that we are not losing support simply flies in the face of what we are all seeing around us but still we have people trying to tell us it isn't happening:rolleyes:

Can you point to any of my posts that say that? I've been as critical as anyone else about how we are playing and how we have been playing. I'm not telling anyone to calm down or that it'll be alright. Don't just make stuff up or repeat what someone else has made up.

I expect season tickets and attendances to be down this coming season. Someone said we were a declining army and was challenged on how factual that was given that season ticket sales and (iirc) average attendances had risen over the last 2 seasons. Those were the facts that were presented, I'm not using them to say everything is rosy in the garden and that we are somehow doing well.

Hiber-nation
04-04-2014, 06:46 PM
And none of them have a plan for fixing it, other than staying away.

You did that yourself earlier in the season Mikey!

Mikey
04-04-2014, 06:48 PM
You did that yourself earlier in the season Mikey!

I did.

But I said quite clearly at the time that even if I stayed way next season I would still renew my season ticket as I wouldn't damage the club financially. I wouldn't be turning up to watch it though.

Hiber-nation
04-04-2014, 06:58 PM
I did.

But I said quite clearly at the time that even if I stayed way next season I would still renew my season ticket as I wouldn't damage the club financially. I wouldn't be turning up to watch it though.

Not having a dig by the way.

I'd rather disgruntled fans created a massive banner in the East - Petrie Out - or something more "creative". But apathy seems to be the way forward for a lot of our fans.

Mikey
04-04-2014, 07:12 PM
Not having a dig by the way.

I'd rather disgruntled fans created a massive banner in the East - Petrie Out - or something more "creative". But apathy seems to be the way forward for a lot of our fans.

Did you see OH's post on the PM board? That's the way ahead but there's a lot of work needed.

NAE NOOKIE
04-04-2014, 07:35 PM
Dundee United and ICT both filled the South Stand, 3,900 fans each, at the earlier matches but only brought around 200 at the most recent; obviously because of their diminishing stature in the intervening years. That accounts for most of the missing fans


:rolleyes:

I have missed probably one home game in the last 15 or so years ....... that must have been a dream you had Keekaboo coz neither ICT or Dundee Utd have ever come even close to selling out the South.

On the original point .... the Yams have put up a fight no doubt, but crap always sinks to the bottom of the pan in the end. The trouble is we as a club have singularly failed to take advantage of the demise of two of our biggest rivals .... a situation which if allowed to continue we will live to regret in years to come.

There is still time to reap the rewards of being brave enough to grasp the nettle ..... Unfortunately I am now utterly convinced and have been for some time that the current owner and chairman of Hibernian F.C. have neither the interest, ability or courage required to make this club anything other than a mediocre also ran on the park.

Yes, crowds have been falling ..... but everything I have seen over the last 3 seasons tells me that Hibs have some of the best and most committed fans in British football .... who else has suffered like us and yet still turned out when it mattered.

What is the saying? ......... Lions lead by Donkeys.

Mikey
04-04-2014, 07:38 PM
Nah, not been on much today but will have a look :wink:

Post 185.......

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?280487-The-Petrie-dilemma/page7

Hiber-nation
04-04-2014, 07:38 PM
Did you see OH's post on the PM board? That's the way ahead but there's a lot of work needed.

Yep found it and excellent post if the right people are involved.

Might take a while and a drop in crowds though :(