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AgentDaleCooper
30-03-2014, 09:46 PM
our board's main claim to success is their prudent spending, resulting in our secure financial position (in the short/medium term anyway). it's dragged us through years of purgatory, and looks like we're getting sucked lower and lower, with little sight of hope of as to how we'll be lifted out.

our neighbours along the way have had a polar opposite experience in the last few years. they're financially hooped at the moment, but they've enjoyed two major cup wins, split the old firm, and regular humiliations of ourselves, whilst laughing on as we ***** our pants in europe. they even got to hear the champions league theme music in their stadium, albeit only once.

my question is this - who's position would you really rather be in? they might spout all their pish about 'how proud they are of their team' and so on, but there is one thing they truly have, whether it was financially fair or not, and that is great memories, which after all is said and done, are football's greatest prize.

i know the real answer to this is 'neither - there's a happy medium', because we're dealing with two extremes, but IMO, the manner in which we're humiliating ourselves has utterly nothing going for it. at least their way brought them good times. they can, and do say 'oh well, it was worth it', whilst we moan, year after year, 'please, anything but this'.

Sir David Gray
30-03-2014, 09:50 PM
Our position every day of the week.

The Hearts fans may not have a club to support in a few weeks' time.

There's no cup or any sort of success that would make up for losing my club.

Albion Hibs
30-03-2014, 09:59 PM
Ours everyday of the week. A happy medium is probably wishful thinking, but something a little closer to it is the ideal. The jambos celebrated today like they won the champions league, it was slightly embarrassing, but I am pretty sure when they dragged themselves home the reality will have kicked in that come next weekend they will be relegated and probably not seen back in the spl for quite some time. Next year will no doubt be a bit novel to start off with but I think surely even the daftest of them would not take that for a couple of cup wins and a fancy opera tune playing in their stadium.

21.05.2016
30-03-2014, 10:06 PM
Ours everyday of the week. A happy medium is probably wishful thinking, but something a little closer to it is the ideal. The jambos celebrated today like they won the champions league, it was slightly embarrassing, but I am pretty sure when they dragged themselves home the reality will have kicked in that come next weekend they will be relegated and probably not seen back in the spl for quite some time. Next year will no doubt be a bit novel to start off with but I think surely even the daftest of them would not take that for a couple of cup wins and a fancy opera tune playing in their stadium.

This 100%. They have their 5 minutes of gloating and glory but like you say once thats worn off, its back to the reality of going down and facing an uncertain future.

Would never want to be one of that mob, no matter how bad things were with us. They are a grotty, horrible little club with a history now tainted with cheating, conning and corruption, playing in a scabby, tin can rikety old "stadium" with a disgusting, bigotted, arrogant, deluded fanbase. They might come off better in most derbies but would I ever want to be one of them? AYE RIGHT!

Hibercelona
30-03-2014, 10:08 PM
This 100%. They have their 5 minutes of gloating and glory but like you say once thats worn off, its back to the reality of going down and facing an uncertain future.

Would never want to be one of that mob, no matter how bad things were with us. They are a grotty, horrible little club with a history now tainted with cheating, conning and corruption, playing in a scabby, tin can rikety old "stadium" with a disgusting, bigotted, arrogant, deluded fanbase. They might come off better in most derbies but would I ever want to be one of them? AYE RIGHT!

Well said.

TheFamous1875
30-03-2014, 10:09 PM
Now that we're financially sound and have a full infrastructure, surely it's time to start investing in the team? And by that I mean investing in youth, building them up and selling them down to England and buying players with the fees.

Imagine we had the fees brought in from 2006-2010 to spend on players? We'd have been snorting at Naismith, Robson and Hammell, not the other way around.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

stoneyburn hibs
30-03-2014, 10:11 PM
Hmmm no exactly a sophie's choice poll.

scuttle
30-03-2014, 10:13 PM
Don't see the point of this poll, the only people voting for Hertz will be undercover yams on this forum. No true Hibbys would rather be in their position

erin go bragh
30-03-2014, 10:15 PM
our board's main claim to success is their prudent spending, resulting in our secure financial position (in the short/medium term anyway). it's dragged us through years of purgatory, and looks like we're getting sucked lower and lower, with little sight of hope of as to how we'll be lifted out.

our neighbours along the way have had a polar opposite experience in the last few years. they're financially hooped at the moment, but they've enjoyed two major cup wins, split the old firm, and regular humiliations of ourselves, whilst laughing on as we ***** our pants in europe. they even got to hear the champions league theme music in their stadium, albeit only once.

my question is this - who's position would you really rather be in? they might spout all their pish about 'how proud they are of their team' and so on, but there is one thing they truly have, whether it was financially fair or not, and that is great memories, which after all is said and done, are football's greatest prize.

i know the real answer to this is 'neither - there's a happy medium', because we're dealing with two extremes, but IMO, the manner in which we're humiliating ourselves has utterly nothing going for it. at least their way brought them good times. they can, and do say 'oh well, it was worth it', whilst we moan, year after year, 'please, anything but this'.

They dont play the champion league music for qualifiers .
Cheats never win in the long run. .

Ggtth

Jones28
30-03-2014, 10:17 PM
Stupid question, every one of us would rather be in our position.

It still doesn't make a derby loss in these circumstances any more comforting

ronaldo7
30-03-2014, 10:20 PM
I'd rather keep my honour and pay for my poppies.

hfc rd
30-03-2014, 10:27 PM
Really? Our position every day of the week.

Ray_
30-03-2014, 10:48 PM
Don't see the point of this poll, the only people voting for Hertz will be undercover yams on this forum. No true Hibbys would rather be in their position

I don't see the point of this neither, because no matter how much they are in the ****ter, it doesn't make it any easier after the last seven years, especially as, as bad as they are, they can still take care of our hopeless lot.

Speedy
30-03-2014, 11:51 PM
Don't see the point of this poll, the only people voting for Hertz will be undercover yams on this forum. No true Hibbys would rather be in their position

Not sure your last point is true.

Pete
31-03-2014, 12:05 AM
our board's main claim to success is their prudent spending, resulting in our secure financial position (in the short/medium term anyway). it's dragged us through years of purgatory, and looks like we're getting sucked lower and lower, with little sight of hope of as to how we'll be lifted out.

our neighbours along the way have had a polar opposite experience in the last few years. they're financially hooped at the moment, but they've enjoyed two major cup wins, split the old firm, and regular humiliations of ourselves, whilst laughing on as we ***** our pants in europe. they even got to hear the champions league theme music in their stadium, albeit only once.

my question is this - who's position would you really rather be in? they might spout all their pish about 'how proud they are of their team' and so on, but there is one thing they truly have, whether it was financially fair or not, and that is great memories, which after all is said and done, are football's greatest prize.

i know the real answer to this is 'neither - there's a happy medium', because we're dealing with two extremes, but IMO, the manner in which we're humiliating ourselves has utterly nothing going for it. at least their way brought them good times. they can, and do say 'oh well, it was worth it', whilst we moan, year after year, 'please, anything but this'.

Where's the "neither - there's a happy medium" option?

V-I
31-03-2014, 12:15 AM
Would you rather live until you're 80 and achieve nothing with your life, or live until you're 50 and fulfill all your dreams?

What is the greatest thing that Hearts or Hibs could realistically achieve in Scottish football? Given that winning the league or making a meaningful run in Europe is out of the question? Thrashing their rivals in the Cup Final? Can Hibs fans realistically imagine anything better than beating Hearts 5-1 in the Scottish Cup Final?

In 5 years time Hearts will be back in Scotland's top division, financially stable and have brilliant memories. In 5 years time Hibs will be in Scotland's top division and financially stable.

It might be better as a Hibs fan now, but this is a small window as it is inevitable that the natural order will be restored in the not too distant future.

Pete
31-03-2014, 12:24 AM
Would you rather live until you're 80 and achieve nothing with your life, or live until you're 50 and fulfill all your dreams?

What is the greatest thing that Hearts or Hibs could realistically achieve in Scottish football? Given that winning the league or making a meaningful run in Europe is out of the question? Thrashing their rivals in the Cup Final? Can Hibs fans realistically imagine anything better than beating Hearts 5-1 in the Scottish Cup Final?

In 5 years time Hearts will be back in Scotland's top division, financially stable and have brilliant memories. In 5 years time Hibs will be in Scotland's top division and financially stable.

It might be better as a Hibs fan now, but this is a small window as it is inevitable that the natural order will be restored in the not too distant future.

They won nothing for 36 years. Was that part of the "natural order"?

I'd rather have nothing than something achieved by cheating. It would be hollow and tainted as far as I'm concerned.

AgentDaleCooper
31-03-2014, 12:25 AM
Where's the "neither - there's a happy medium" option?

it's not there, because part of the point here is comparison. i feel that the way the club is being run is actually potentially very damaging. if we carry on in this vein for another 5 years, season tickets sales will hit new depths, and we'll miss out on a lot of potential new fans as well. the club seems to be running on a 'no risks' policy, ironically putting its self at risk on various fronts as a result.

basehibby
31-03-2014, 12:25 AM
Don't see the point of this poll, the only people voting for Hertz will be undercover yams on this forum. No true Hibbys would rather be in their position

:agree: It's an utter no brainer - the few voting to be in the Yams shoes are either sad Yam interlopers looking to boost their increasingly fragile delusions of viability or have simply forgotten to take their medication.

AgentDaleCooper
31-03-2014, 12:27 AM
They won nothing for 36 years. Was that part of the "natural order"?

I'd rather have nothing than something achieved by cheating. It would be hollow and tainted as far as I'm concerned.

are you genuinely saying that if hibs got bought over by some rich person, lived beyond their means a bit, but played very good football, and won the scottish cup, you wouldn't be very, very, very happy? i totally get where your coming from, but i also think that in the glory of it, you wouldn't even notice yourself letting go of the moral high ground.

Hibercelona
31-03-2014, 12:43 AM
They won nothing for 36 years. Was that part of the "natural order"?

I'd rather have nothing than something achieved by cheating. It would be hollow and tainted as far as I'm concerned.

Players cheat to win games by diving. Obviously it doesn't make them feel hollow about the victory, as players continue to do it at an ever increasing rate without a care in the world. Fans don't seem to care either, as long as they're on the side that benefits from it.

I don't think financial cheating would be any different. If some rich tycoon came to Hibs and started plowing his money in, we'd develop an arrogance and superiority complex not all that different from Hearts fans. Nobody would be complaining about it.

Pete
31-03-2014, 12:47 AM
are you genuinely saying that if hibs got bought over by some rich person, lived beyond their means a bit, but played very good football, and won the scottish cup, you wouldn't be very, very, very happy? i totally get where your coming from, but i also think that in the glory of it, you wouldn't even notice yourself letting go of the moral high ground.

I was answering his question.


To answer yours, which was "who's position would you rather be in?", it would be ours.

If I was a hearts fan I would have had serious doubts about returning after their regimes comments regarding Graham Rix. I wouldn't have returned after their refusal to sack another child sex offender.

It's not all about "great memories" for me, it's genuinely about morals and what sort of devil you sell your soul to. Call it taking the moral high ground if you like but as a father, the debate stops right there as far as I'm concerned.

Pete
31-03-2014, 12:51 AM
Players cheat to win games by diving. Obviously it doesn't make them feel hollow about the victory, as players continue to do it at an ever increasing rate without a care in the world. Fans don't seem to care either, as long as they're on the side that benefits from it.

I don't think financial cheating would be any different. If some rich tycoon came to Hibs and started plowing his money in, we'd develop an arrogance and superiority complex not all that different from Hearts fans. Nobody would be complaining about it.

So in your opinion cheating on the park is the same as financial doping (which isn't the same as "some guy plowing his money in")?

And it's OK?

I've heard it all now.:rolleyes:

Hibercelona
31-03-2014, 12:56 AM
So in your opinion cheating on the park is the same as financial doping (which isn't the same as "some guy plowing his money in")?

And it's OK?

I've heard it all now.:rolleyes:

Cheating is cheating. Whether it be on the park or off it.

Fans don't care how it's achieved, they just want to be entertained and watch a winning team.

We could be owned by complete gangsters. But as long as we're performing and winning games, nobodies going to care.

basehibby
31-03-2014, 01:00 AM
are you genuinely saying that if hibs got bought over by some rich person, lived beyond their means a bit, but played very good football, and won the scottish cup, you wouldn't be very, very, very happy? i totally get where your coming from, but i also think that in the glory of it, you wouldn't even notice yourself letting go of the moral high ground.

But that is not how things stand - a desperate Hearts were taken over by a criminal shyster who appears to have used them as one of a number of tools through which to launder large quantities of dirty money. Now that the smoke has cleared and the mirrors have been smashed they find themselves clinging on to the memories of tainted pyrrhic victories as the existence of their club and their shabby exhausted home hangs by a thread.
Hibs DID get bought over by a very rich person some 20 years ago - who has proceeded to attempt to run the club along the same lines that originally made him very rich in the first place. OK it's not all been wine and roses, but we can at least look to the future with confidence that our main aspirations for next season are somewhere above merely existing.

gegs70
31-03-2014, 01:24 AM
To be honest other teams have been prudent and managed a lot better in bringing in players look at 5of the 6 teams above us at the moment.

SanFranHibs
31-03-2014, 05:20 AM
To be honest other teams have been prudent and managed a lot better in bringing in players look at 5of the 6 teams above us at the moment.

The most frustrating thing about our situation is of course the football, or lack of it. I find it incredible that none of our recent managers has been able to at least organise our team so we at least play a consistent game every week and play as a team. ICT have done it for a few years, St. Johnstone, PArtick play decent football though flawed. We are pretty much a shambles week in, week out.

Also and I have said this quite a few times, don't over estimate Petries financial prowess. He was lucky that the Mowbray era allowed him to sell off a few players to quickly reduce the debt and improve the infrastructure. He has to be commended somewhat for improving our infrastruture and not blowing the money but he really was lucky that the Scott Browns and Whittakers etc allowed him to do this.

I really believe Hibs need a fresh team at the top. The club is stagnating and the team now is and has been for a few years pretty dreadful.

SouthamptonHibs
31-03-2014, 06:04 AM
£400 squid saved as not renewing season ticket! Hibs are *****! Over to Hibs now to get decent players in

AndyM_1875
31-03-2014, 06:08 AM
Would you rather live until you're 80 and achieve nothing with your life, or live until you're 50 and fulfill all your dreams?

What is the greatest thing that Hearts or Hibs could realistically achieve in Scottish football? Given that winning the league or making a meaningful run in Europe is out of the question? Thrashing their rivals in the Cup Final? Can Hibs fans realistically imagine anything better than beating Hearts 5-1 in the Scottish Cup Final?

In 5 years time Hearts will be back in Scotland's top division, financially stable and have brilliant memories. In 5 years time Hibs will be in Scotland's top division and financially stable.

It might be better as a Hibs fan now, but this is a small window as it is inevitable that the natural order will be restored in the not too distant future.


Delusional.

First and foremost I'd rather keep my integrity.
I'd rather my club hasn't ripped people off to the tune of £30m and squirmed out of its tax liabilities.
There's a right and a wrong way to carry yourself. Winning the odd tin pot whilst running up toxic debt is not the way, to me that is fraudulent.

Your post says much about the delusional mindset of the common garden Hearts fan and the more I read nonsense from your type the more I want distance between us and right now I'll settle for separate leagues.

PeeJay
31-03-2014, 07:15 AM
our board's main claim to success is their prudent spending, resulting in our secure financial position (in the short/medium term anyway). it's dragged us through years of purgatory, and looks like we're getting sucked lower and lower, with little sight of hope of as to how we'll be lifted out.

our neighbours along the way have had a polar opposite experience in the last few years. they're financially hooped at the moment, but they've enjoyed two major cup wins, split the old firm, and regular humiliations of ourselves, whilst laughing on as we ***** our pants in europe. they even got to hear the champions league theme music in their stadium, albeit only once.

my question is this - who's position would you really rather be in? they might spout all their pish about 'how proud they are of their team' and so on, but there is one thing they truly have, whether it was financially fair or not, and that is great memories, which after all is said and done, are football's greatest prize.

i know the real answer to this is 'neither - there's a happy medium', because we're dealing with two extremes, but IMO, the manner in which we're humiliating ourselves has utterly nothing going for it. at least their way brought them good times. they can, and do say 'oh well, it was worth it', whilst we moan, year after year, 'please, anything but this'.

An intriguing post - my initial response was "ours", seemed an easy choice - yet, some of my family are Hearts fans and they've had the best times of their lives winning cups (against us), finishing consistently higher up the league than us and more often than not (recently) they have embarrassed us on the park, and - yet again - they had the times of their lives yesterday ... meanwhile we hold up our cards with "cheats", "prudence" "healthy balance sheet" and "integrity" on them ... they'll get relegated BUT they will be back. And when they are: we'll still have our wee cards, but we're a long, long, long way away from having anywhere near the time of our lives ... the memories of their "ill-gotten gains" will tide them over when in the lower league, even if it lasts for more than a season - how much succor can we take from our cards and our integrity and moral stance and our pointless finger pointing? It has long since stopped meaning that much to me. Being in their position doesn't seem to me to be such a bad place to be after all - particularly when it's obvious where we currently are as a club ourselves: after all, what have we got to write home about? We all know why they are going down, does anyone have an answer to why we are almost going down? Seems to me that this integrity spiel is not working.

Anyway, there are several "successful" clubs out there who are winning championships, cups, playing in Europe, drawing huge crowds, and they are all financially living beyond their means ... and they don't give a xxxxx about integrity - they leave that to clubs like ours: so what lessons should we take from this situation?

Bill Milne
31-03-2014, 07:53 AM
Surely a no-brainer of a poll. Who on earth would want to be in their position?

The Green Goblin
31-03-2014, 10:27 AM
Would you rather live until you're 80 and achieve nothing with your life, or live until you're 50 and fulfill all your dreams?

What is the greatest thing that Hearts or Hibs could realistically achieve in Scottish football? Given that winning the league or making a meaningful run in Europe is out of the question? Thrashing their rivals in the Cup Final? Can Hibs fans realistically imagine anything better than beating Hearts 5-1 in the Scottish Cup Final?

In 5 years time Hearts will be back in Scotland's top division, financially stable and have brilliant memories. In 5 years time Hibs will be in Scotland's top division and financially stable.

It might be better as a Hibs fan now, but this is a small window as it is inevitable that the natural order will be restored in the not too distant future.

Nice user name. If only I understood Roman numerals...

I think I have spotted the flaw in your post. It's the bit about Hearts being back in the top flight debt free in 5 years.

Also, here's the thing. If Hibs did push the boat out and go for a glorious cup win or whatever, I would never want it to be with money that was not ours. I would also not want it to be at the expense of local businesses, charities, poppy funds and so on. Because that would be morally unforgiveable.

Here's another Roman numeral for you: L

Can you guess what it stands for?

emerald green
31-03-2014, 10:34 AM
Ours everyday of the week. A happy medium is probably wishful thinking, but something a little closer to it is the ideal. The jambos celebrated today like they won the champions league, it was slightly embarrassing, but I am pretty sure when they dragged themselves home the reality will have kicked in that come next weekend they will be relegated and probably not seen back in the spl for quite some time. Next year will no doubt be a bit novel to start off with but I think surely even the daftest of them would not take that for a couple of cup wins and a fancy opera tune playing in their stadium.

Spot on mate. :aok:

emerald green
31-03-2014, 10:36 AM
This 100%. They have their 5 minutes of gloating and glory but like you say once thats worn off, its back to the reality of going down and facing an uncertain future.

Would never want to be one of that mob, no matter how bad things were with us. They are a grotty, horrible little club with a history now tainted with cheating, conning and corruption, playing in a scabby, tin can rikety old "stadium" with a disgusting, bigotted, arrogant, deluded fanbase. They might come off better in most derbies but would I ever want to be one of them? AYE RIGHT!

And spot on again mate. :aok:

Waxy
31-03-2014, 10:38 AM
I'd still take our position. We still have had a good budget and have under achieved.
If we stay up it could bring a new dawn.

21.05.2016
31-03-2014, 10:51 AM
Nice user name. If only I understood Roman numerals...

I think I have spotted the flaw in your post. It's the bit about Hearts being back in the top flight debt free in 5 years.

Also, here's the thing. If Hibs did push the boat out and go for a glorious cup win or whatever, I would never want it to be with money that was not ours. I would also not want it to be at the expense of local businesses, charities, poppy funds and so on. Because that would be morally unforgiveable.

Here's another Roman numeral for you: L

Can you guess what it stands for?

:top marks They might have had their cheated glory days at the expense of charities, small businesses but their history will forever be tainted with corruption and cheating just like the big huns.

oregonhibby
31-03-2014, 11:16 AM
The two "integrity" and "success" needn't be mutually exclusive.

There are short memories and after they, "Rangers" and "Hearts" make their way back they will continue to have a winning attitude and greater desire than us given what was seen yesterday, or indeed the last 7 seasons. We have failed to take advantage of the best opportunity to be successful in years. How many managers and players do we need. We have tried plenty and still can't win, or even look like winning, anything.