PDA

View Full Version : Farmer/Fan Ownership



NatureBoy
30-03-2014, 03:46 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

Emerald
30-03-2014, 03:54 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

I agree with this 100%. The owner is the one who should be leading from the front and showing ambition and passion. STF is a great saviour but he does not have that ambition and passion for Hibs. Petrie is a just an employee and if he were to be hounded out, all we would get is another Petrie type employed by Farmer. However, it's easy saying we need another owner but it won't be very easy getting one. I fear more and more years of mediocre pish. Mind you mediocre actually would be a step up right now. Sad times :boo hoo:

blackpoolhibs
30-03-2014, 03:58 PM
Oh but he saved us, all hail sir Tom.

dave62
30-03-2014, 03:59 PM
I'm not unsympathetic to your point, but there aren't that many Hibs minded millionaires who might be persuaded to put a bucket load of cash into the club, and it's not as if we'd be seen as a good financial investment by an outsider.

What we do need in the lack of any new money is a load of new ideas. What they may be I've no idea.

HIBERNIAN-0762
30-03-2014, 03:59 PM
Don't waste your time mate, honestly.

Alfred E Newman
30-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Oh but he saved us, all hail sir Tom.

But he did.

NatureBoy
30-03-2014, 04:04 PM
I'm not unsympathetic to your point, but there aren't that many Hibs minded millionaires who might be persuaded to put a bucket load of cash into the club, and it's not as if we'd be seen as a good financial investment by an outsider.

What we do need in the lack of any new money is a load of new ideas. What they may be I've no idea.

I'm certainly no expert and don't have the answers but would like to see STF actively try to sell the club. He's never made a real effort to punt it, so we never know who might bite. We're in great nick off the park so may be an attractive proposition to some. I know I'm not the only one who can't take much more of the same.

dave62
30-03-2014, 04:11 PM
I'm certainly no expert and don't have the answers but would like to see STF actively try to sell the club. He's never made a real effort to punt it, so we never know who might bite. We're in great nick off the park so may be an attractive proposition to some. I know I'm not the only one who can't take much more of the same.

It's common knowledge that Hibs is for sale to the right person and whilst Tom Farmer's attitude of only selling to the right person keeps the likes of Romanov from sniffing around us, I agree that maybe being a bit more aggressive regarding looking for a new buyer may pay dividends.

Thecat23
30-03-2014, 04:18 PM
It's common knowledge that Hibs is for sale to the right person and whilst Tom Farmer's attitude of only selling to the right person keeps the likes of Romanov from sniffing around us, I agree that maybe being a bit more aggressive regarding looking for a new buyer may pay dividends.

That's the thing it's not common knowledge though. If I want my house sold I don't whisper it to a neighbour and say I'll only sell to some nice bloke. I put it on the market and get the best for myself.

Of course he won't sell to a madman but I still believe if formally put up for sale he will get a buyer. Everything that's needed at a club is there they have taken hibs as far as they can.

SunshineOnLeith
30-03-2014, 04:20 PM
Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

Who?







You don't know? Exactly.

Top Pans Hibby
30-03-2014, 04:21 PM
At the very very least Farmer should be telling us what his plans are for our club. At the moment we hear nothing except for the jangling of collecting tins when our season tickets are due for renewal.

We need to know what his strategy and objectives are. Are plans already in place for a smooth handover to potential buyers who have Hibs at heart?

The time for this ongoing silence is well and truly at an end.

Ronniekirk
30-03-2014, 04:25 PM
That's the thing it's not common knowledge though. If I want my house sold I don't whisper it to a neighbour and say I'll only sell to some nice bloke. I put it on the market and get the best for myself.

Of course he won't sell to a madman but I still believe if formally put up for sale he will get a buyer. Everything that's needed at a club is there they have taken hibs as far as they can.

I am coming round to your last point and wonder how actively he has sought a buyer .What I can't understand is why can't he attract someone else with investment even if in short term he stays on board and continues to get rental income and underpin the stability he has given us .He seems more interested in the community side of things which is fine ,we want to retain our heritage and Leith identity but it's not taking us forwards

johnbc70
30-03-2014, 04:25 PM
At the very very least Farmer should be telling us what his plans are for our club. At the moment we hear nothing except for the jangling of collecting tins when our season tickets are due for renewal.

We need to know what his strategy and objectives are. Are plans already in place for a smooth handover to potential buyers who have Hibs at heart?

The time for this ongoing silence is well and truly at an end.

Agree with this but was it not the same in May 12. 2 years down the road and what has changed? Did he say anything after that game, or the Malmo game or the pathetic defeat to Raith in the cup. He won't say a thing he never does.

smurf
30-03-2014, 04:25 PM
Under the current ownership the objective is only survival. There is no pressure from Sir Tom to be successful.

dave62
30-03-2014, 04:32 PM
That's the thing it's not common knowledge though. If I want my house sold I don't whisper it to a neighbour and say I'll only sell to some nice bloke. I put it on the market and get the best for myself.

Of course he won't sell to a madman but I still believe if formally put up for sale he will get a buyer. Everything that's needed at a club is there they have taken hibs as far as they can.

It's common knowledge amongst Hibs supporters that we are for sale so I agree that Farmer and/or the board should be more proactive in looking for a new owner. They should say that whilst they will protect us from being taken over by some idiot, they have taken the club as far as they can and it's time for an injection of fresh ideas and money.

My gratitude to Tom Farmer for saving our club knows no bounds, but I'd love him even more if he admitted that it's time for him to sell up to someone who can take us to the next level.

NatureBoy
30-03-2014, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=SunshineOnLeith;3948732]Who?







You don't know?

Of course I don't know as sadly I don't have a crystal ball. It is my firm belief however if STF took a more aggressive approach in selling the club there would be numerous interested parties.
We are a capital city club with all the foundations in place, are you honestly telling me nobody would show a blind bit interest?

Emerald
30-03-2014, 04:38 PM
Under the current ownership the objective is only survival. There is no pressure from Sir Tom to be successful.

This is the problem but until things change we will always be under achievers bar the odd season when we get a decent group of players. Of course they would be quckly be sold with the revenue invested anywhere bar the team.

I don't know how we change this? :confused:

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 04:40 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

Yeah, really sounds like you're grateful to Farmer.

NAE NOOKIE
30-03-2014, 04:47 PM
I posted on this subject on another thread and have done a number of times recently.

Its time for Tom Farmer to get involved or sell the club. I don't believe for a second that a man with his contacts couldn't have found a buyer by now for something he doesn't want.

The question is no longer can Hibs survive without Farmer? The question is ........ how the hell can we ever be a success with him as owner?

He is obviously happy to settle for mediocrity and failure. That's not what I fork out hundreds of pounds every year for.

As I said on the other thread ............. I want him to come out and bloody well say something .... his silence is an insult to Hibs fans everywhere ..... perhaps he thinks he is too good to get into it with the plebs.

Keith_M
30-03-2014, 04:48 PM
Yeah, really sounds like you're grateful to Farmer.

Why the sarcy comment? The guy sounds genuine to me and I find it hard to diagree with anything he says.

Tom Farmer saved the club over twenty years ago, and Hibs supporters are grateful for that. A lot of Hibs supporters think the club has now stagnated and needs a new owner and a new direction. I don't see the two views as contradictory.

NatureBoy
30-03-2014, 04:49 PM
Yeah, really sounds like you're grateful to Farmer.

I'm entitled to my opinion, I am actually grateful to Farmer but what he done was a long time ago. Things move on especially in football and if you don't have the ability to evolve things never get better.

Churchill was a Great War leader who people will always be eternally grateful to. It never made him a great peace time leader though hence him losing the general election.

Emerald
30-03-2014, 04:53 PM
Why the sarcy comment? The guy sounds genuine to me and I find it hard to diagree with anything he says.

Tom Farmer saved the club over twenty years ago, and Hibs supporters are grateful for that. A lot of Hibs supporters think the club has now stagnated and needs a new owner and a new direction. I don't see the two views as contradictory.

:top marksSpot on. Everyone is grateful to STF but after 20 odd years it's pretty obvious that footballing success isn't part of his remit.

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 04:55 PM
Why the sarcy comment? The guy sounds genuine to me and I find it hard to diagree with anything he says.

Tom Farmer saved the club over twenty years ago, and Hibs supporters are grateful for that. A lot of Hibs supporters think the club has now stagnated and needs a new owner and a new direction. I don't see the two views as contradictory.

I think the post could have been more respectful, or do without saying he was grateful.

He gave Farmer a good kicking in his post, using emotive remarks like "Teflon Owner" and then comes out with insincere **** at the end.

I agree that Hibs can't go on like this.

NAE NOOKIE
30-03-2014, 04:56 PM
Yeah, really sounds like you're grateful to Farmer.

Sorry FR but that's getting a bit old mate.

Every Hibs fan is well aware of what STF did for us. But, the club is fast becoming a joke under his tenure. The mans inactivity is ****ting on his own legacy .......... The line between legend and bellend aint a fine one, but eventually it does get crossed.

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 04:57 PM
I'm entitled to my opinion, I am actually grateful to Farmer but what he done was a long time ago. Things move on especially in football and if you don't have the ability to evolve things never get better.

Churchill was a Great War leader who people will always be eternally grateful to. It never made him a great peace time leader though hence him losing the general election.

Very good points. I don't think Farmer is standing in anybody's way.

ionahibby
30-03-2014, 04:57 PM
It's common knowledge that Hibs is for sale to the right person and whilst Tom Farmer's attitude of only selling to the right person keeps the likes of Romanov from sniffing around us, I agree that maybe being a bit more aggressive regarding looking for a new buyer may pay dividends.

I heard many moons ago about the Barclay brothers that wanted to buy us but farmer refused. They own one of the newspapers? I might be totally wrong so somebody may have to set me right?

blackpoolhibs
30-03-2014, 05:02 PM
But he did.

brilliant what a great job

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 05:02 PM
I heard many moons ago about the Barclay brothers that wanted to buy us but farmer refused. They own one of the newspapers? I might be totally wrong so somebody may have to set me right?

You want the Barclay Brothers to own Hibs?

greenpaper55
30-03-2014, 05:03 PM
You want the Barclay Brothers to own Hibs?

I'd take the chuckle brother right now !.

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 05:05 PM
I'd take the chuckle brother right now !.

Or The Funk Soul Brother? :greengrin

Keith_M
30-03-2014, 05:06 PM
I'd take the chuckle brother right now !.


Would it be like a time share ownership thing?


"To me, to you, to me....."

Emerald
30-03-2014, 05:06 PM
I'd take the chuckle brother right now !.

At least they knew how to pass the ball :tee hee:

greenpaper55
30-03-2014, 05:12 PM
Would it be like a time share ownership thing?


"To me, to you, to me....."

:faf: i should have thought of that one,

smurf
30-03-2014, 05:15 PM
I heard many moons ago about the Barclay brothers that wanted to buy us but farmer refused. They own one of the newspapers? I might be totally wrong so somebody may have to set me right?

There was a time many moons ago when media organisations were investing in football clubs. The Yams got some in 1999.

The Barclay Brothers who owned The Scotsman Publications until 2005 were rumoured to be interested in investing. Looking at their portfolio of interests and investments I think this was a rumour without foundation.

SunshineOnLeith
30-03-2014, 05:27 PM
[QUOTE=SunshineOnLeith;3948732]Who?







You don't know?

Of course I don't know as sadly I don't have a crystal ball. It is my firm belief however if STF took a more aggressive approach in selling the club there would be numerous interested parties.
We are a capital city club with all the foundations in place, are you honestly telling me nobody would show a blind bit interest?


It's pretty clear from your opening post that you want an owner who cares about the club I.e. a Hibs fan. If such a potential owner exists they wouldn't need the club to be publicly put up for sale to show interest.

wills
30-03-2014, 05:38 PM
STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings

jeffers
30-03-2014, 05:43 PM
I'd take the chuckle brother right now !.

They are already managing the team by the look of things.

Criswell
30-03-2014, 05:45 PM
STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings

Jeez, That's all I wanted to hear! I have just gone from depressed to suicidal!

greenginger
30-03-2014, 05:52 PM
STF has not had a stroke, he is not looking a well man but has not had a stroke.

I think there would be more chance of his daughter taking over at ER than his son.

NAE NOOKIE
30-03-2014, 05:57 PM
STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ......................... Brilliant !!!

truehibernian
30-03-2014, 06:01 PM
http://startups.co.uk/kwik-fit-founder-sir-tom-farmer-on-learning-from-the-mistakes-of-others-video/

'The manager and team of people were the most important, they were number one'.......'unless they were highly self motivated nothing would ever happen'

Well Sir Tom, nothing has been happening for a good while now.......how's about you step up to the plate and tell Hibs supporters that you are telling these players and management the same :aok:

leggeto
30-03-2014, 06:05 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

to be fair to farmer he's not a football man,he's also not stupid with money so no way will he authorize Petrie to go into the overdraft

Weststandwanab
30-03-2014, 06:05 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's. Anyone in mind?


At the very very least Farmer should be telling us what his plans are for our club. At the moment we hear nothing except for the jangling of collecting tins when our season tickets are due for renewal.

We need to know what his strategy and objectives are. Are plans already in place for a smooth handover to potential buyers who have Hibs at heart?

The time for this ongoing silence is well and truly at an end. Strategy is break even and do not get relegated in that order.









You don't know?

Of course I don't know as sadly I don't have a crystal ball. It is my firm belief however if STF took a more aggressive approach in selling the club there would be numerous interested parties.
We are a capital city club with all the foundations in place, are you honestly telling me nobody would show a blind bit interest?[/QUOTE] I agree with this.


You want the Barclay Brothers to own Hibs? Please no.


STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings His son prefers music and is a rugger man that is why Tim Gardiner was employed as a bean counter.


STF has not had a stroke, he is not looking a well man but has not had a stroke.

I think there would be more chance of his daughter taking over at ER than his son. Now that would be interesting watching Budgie V Farmer

smurf
30-03-2014, 08:32 PM
Not good to read Sir Tom isn't in good health?

ManBearPig
30-03-2014, 10:59 PM
I hadn't heard anything about poor health! is this true?

Phil D. Rolls
30-03-2014, 11:49 PM
Not good to read Sir Tom isn't in good health?


I hadn't heard anything about poor health! is this true?

Even if someone did know anything, this is not the place to be talking about these things.

I think the best thing is that the original post is deleted.

CB_NO3
31-03-2014, 12:04 AM
Even if someone did know anything, this is not the place to be talking about these things.

I think the best thing is that the original post is deleted.

Why delete the original post? The OP has made good, valid points IMO. It must be time to move on. Name the East Stand "The Tom Farmer stand" and show our respect to the man but the end of the day we are a football club, that is our bread and butter, not to be run well on paper. For some reason you dont win trophys for having nice balance sheets. We need to get it right on the park or we will crumble as a club. Season ticket sales will be down next season and with no Hearts in the league, we will take another big hit financially.

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 06:47 AM
Why delete the original post? The OP has made good, valid points IMO. It must be time to move on. Name the East Stand "The Tom Farmer stand" and show our respect to the man but the end of the day we are a football club, that is our bread and butter, not to be run well on paper. For some reason you dont win trophys for having nice balance sheets. We need to get it right on the park or we will crumble as a club. Season ticket sales will be down next season and with no Hearts in the league, we will take another big hit financially.

We shouldn't be speculating about anybody's health.

jdships
31-03-2014, 08:12 AM
We shouldn't be speculating about anybody's health.

Thank You for a sensible post !
To those advocating " removing" STF :
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

:flag:

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 08:35 AM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.


Aye, let's get some Eastern European in who will take us for a ride. And then we can go to the fan ownership model, 'cause that works really well, eh? Obviously, either of those is preferable to the queue round the block of multi-millionaires waiting to invest in Hibs.

Steve-O
31-03-2014, 08:36 AM
Aye, let's get some Eastern European in who will take us for a ride. And then we can go to the fan ownership model, 'cause that works really well, eh? Obviously, either of those is preferable to the queue round the block of multi-millionaires waiting to invest in Hibs.

That's not what the post said at all?

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 08:38 AM
That's not what the post said at all?

No; the post said "move on Farmer" without any suggestion as to a workable alternative.

Jones28
31-03-2014, 08:39 AM
But he did.

Aye, 20 plus years ago.

Steve-O
31-03-2014, 08:45 AM
No; the post said "move on Farmer" without any suggestion as to a workable alternative.

Well we mere mortals don't know the alternatives. We shouldn't assume the only option is some Vlad-like character just because we are not aware of said person / group.

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 08:54 AM
Well we mere mortals don't know the alternatives. We shouldn't assume the only option is some Vlad-like character just because we are not aware of said person / group.


Then mere mortals shouldn't make knee-jerk calls for the removal of safe owners.

People should get the news into their skulls that there is no one out there waiting to take on Hibs, without offering an alternative - which there isn't. If there was, it would have happened. If there was, someone similar would have rescued hertz. They haven't. They're going to be liquidated, because the budge offer is laughable, and their fan ownership plan is ludicrous.

CB_NO3
31-03-2014, 08:56 AM
Aye, let's get some Eastern European in who will take us for a ride. And then we can go to the fan ownership model, 'cause that works really well, eh? Obviously, either of those is preferable to the queue round the block of multi-millionaires waiting to invest in Hibs.
Or we could continue to be 10th every season, have 3 good seasons in every 20 year and continue to be the laughing stock of scottish football. If Farmer has no interest in football then the logical thing would be, not to own a football club. Its defo time to move on.

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 09:00 AM
Or we could continue to be 10th every season, have 3 good seasons in every 20 year and continue to be the laughing stock of scottish football. If Farmer has no interest in football then the logical thing would be, not to own a football club. Its defo time to move on.


Brilliant. What's the suggestion then? Where's the queue of multi-millionaires waiting to invest? Where's the one, fairly rich guy who wants to waste his cash?

Oh, sorry. They don't exist. You must mean fan ownership? Brilliant (again).

Onion
31-03-2014, 09:07 AM
:top marksSpot on. Everyone is grateful to STF but after 20 odd years it's pretty obvious that footballing success isn't part of his remit.

He needs more time :)

We should embed that within the club badge.

Steve-O
31-03-2014, 09:16 AM
Along with 'in a transitional period since 1875'

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 09:28 AM
Or we could continue to be 10th every season, have 3 good seasons in every 20 year and continue to be the laughing stock of scottish football. If Farmer has no interest in football then the logical thing would be, not to own a football club. Its defo time to move on.

We aren't even the laughing stock of Edinburgh football. But you could be with your analysis of Farmers tenure. 3 good seasons? Think you need to check your facts before shooting your mouth off about how bad the club is.

Thank goodness your logic wasn't used 25 years ago. Since then we've been the laughing stock in more cup finals than the likes if St Johnstone have had in their history.

If people like you hound out Farmer, you will definitely regret it.



Along with 'in a transitional period since 1875'

Whilst suffering Jamboid delusions of being a bigger team than we are.

CB_NO3
31-03-2014, 09:33 AM
Brilliant. What's the suggestion then? Where's the queue of multi-millionaires waiting to invest? Where's the one, fairly rich guy who wants to waste his cash?

Oh, sorry. They don't exist. You must mean fan ownership? Brilliant (again).
I don't have the answer but what I do know is this is dire to say the least. If your happy the way things are then good for you. The fact of the matter is we have a man who has no interest in football in charge of a football club, and the everyday running of a football club is done by an accountant. You would not put a fishmonger in charge of a hairdresser would you? The fact is Rod has a 10% stake in Hibs, it does not matter to Rod if we finish 2nd or 11th. As long as we remain in the SPL with a half decent set of accounts he is happy. Unfortunately thats not why I pay my x amount per year to watch Hibs for and am sure others are in the same boat. I think the board might get a wee fright come the start of the season when they see the season ticket sales.

No one is asking for a millionaire to come in, as you say that does not happen. The club is self sustainable and in a better position than most but their must be someone who has passion for the game and wants to see success. The money is there, am sure our budget is among the best in the league so put it to use.

Maybe performance related pay is the way forward? Maybe Farmer should say to Petrie, every top 6 finish you achieve, your stake in the club goes up 1% and every time you finish bottom 6 your stake goes down 1%. Maybe Petrie would care more and put more pressure on the manager? Maybe Farmer should get rid of Rod and bring another chairman in? Maybe Farmer should hand full control of the club to Petrie and it would be up to Petrie to bring a football minded person under him, someone with drive and the will to win. I dont really know but what I do know is this is dire and not working and change is needed and its needed now.

The Harp Awakes
31-03-2014, 09:51 AM
Years of under-achieving suggests there is a profound lack of leadership within Hibernian F.C. There appears no ambition other than balancing the books and the current Board seems to just accept failure year after year.

Is it time for Hibs fans to buy the club from Tom Farmer and appoint leaders who have the necessary passion and ambition to succeed?

green day
31-03-2014, 09:56 AM
For how much?

I dont think its the "ownership" thats at issue, it is the direction and execution of strategy.

Fan ownership would not exactly increase our budget, would it?

Mikey
31-03-2014, 10:00 AM
I feel that having an owner who doesn't get involved, but is in the background if needed, is a good thing. I do think that RP has run his course though and it's time for someone else to have a go.

They'll still have to operate within budget though, as would any fan ownership model.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 10:08 AM
Thank You for a sensible post !
To those advocating " removing" STF :
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

:flag:

Why is it daft to want better? Under his ownership we did steady the ship, but the ship is sailing in the water of Leith, when it should be on the high seas. There is no direction, no leadership and no drive from either STF or Petrie.

We are rudderless and we are ALL sitting here watching it drift. And thats because we have people like yourself who want to thank STF for something that happened 20 odd years ago.

We cant go on thanking him for something that happened so long ago, while the club is withering right in front of us, with him watching too.

I'm not going to be careful for what i wish for thank you very much, i wish we had MUCH better than him and his puppet are delivering.

easty
31-03-2014, 10:09 AM
I got paid on Friday, how much is the club? I might buy it. I went out on Saturday night, but still have a decent amount in the bank.

HappyAsHellas
31-03-2014, 10:11 AM
Where would the money come from? Using foh as a model, if we get 8,000 people to pledge 200 pounds per annum, we can't afford to pay a 20 man squad 2k a week each. On top of this I know we have ST sales etc, just using it as a rough guide if you will. If we have a season like this one then the 8k may well dwindle to 4 with a lot of bickering between the interested parties. One guy at the top isn't perfect but it's better than thousands of owners. The other option is of course that we could all donate voluntarily towards the club to afford better players. Given the recent performances, it's clear the club could do with our added support, so how much will you pledge at this moment it time?

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 10:13 AM
In all honesty, I don't believe that the Hibs fans are any different from other supporters.

Fan ownership means a lot of officious wee men, in blazers, organising seats on the bus for themselves.

If the current owner was taking a profit from the club, I can see the sense in maybe going for a better share of the money. As it is, I don't think we can raise any more from fan ownership than the current model does.

The Harp Awakes
31-03-2014, 10:19 AM
For how much?

I dont think its the "ownership" thats at issue, it is the direction and execution of strategy.

Fan ownership would not exactly increase our budget, would it?

I don't think fan ownership would necessarily increase our budget, but I guess it would depend on how much supporters were able/willing to stump up. There are certainly some wealthy and famous Hibs fans out there.

I'm thinking more about the people that really care about the Club, the supporters, having the ability to select leaders who will provide the necessary passion and ambition to succeed.

Tom Farmer was the Club's saviour and without him we might not be in existence today. Rod Petrie has run the Club successfully from a financial point of view. They have both played their part and we should be thankful for that, but I think it is becoming obvious that we need a change in direction.

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 10:21 AM
I don't see any advantage in us being owned by fans, financially we would not be better off.
:agree:

And a chaotic approach to day to day running, as everyone and their dog try to get their tuppence worth in.

Beefster
31-03-2014, 10:21 AM
Funnily enough, Mrs Beefster made some cupcakes at the weekend. If I can sell them before she gets home and ****s up the plan, I'm in.

Tyler Durden
31-03-2014, 10:36 AM
We aren't even the laughing stock of Edinburgh football. But you could be with your analysis of Farmers tenure. 3 good seasons? Think you need to check your facts before shooting your mouth off about how bad the club is.

Thank goodness your logic wasn't used 25 years ago. Since then we've been the laughing stock in more cup finals than the likes if St Johnstone have had in their history.

If people like you hound out Farmer, you will definitely regret it.


Whilst suffering Jamboid delusions of being a bigger team than we are.

We are actually past the point of being the laughing stock of Edinburgh football. Beaten 3 times by a Hearts team in admin, it's no longer considered a shock in the slightest.

Cup finals? Do you get a prize for getting to cup finals? Is that success?

The Harp Awakes
31-03-2014, 10:36 AM
Funnily enough, Mrs Beefster made some cupcakes at the weekend. If I can sell them before she gets home and ****s up the plan, I'm in.

I've no idea how much cash would be needed to buy the Club or how much cash Hibs supporters would be able to raise. The advantage we have over Hearts though, is that we are not facing oblivion and there would not be a hard and fast deadline to raise the necessary cash. Time would be on our side - no need for cake sales:greengrin

Rod Petrie is Tom Farmer's man and he aint going to replace him. Therefore if a change of leadership is required at the Club, then a change of ownership is required. Without a green knight with the necessary funds to buy the Club from Tom Farmer, the only option is the possibility of fan ownership or status quo.

greenginger
31-03-2014, 10:49 AM
Cup finals? Do you get a prize for getting to cup finals? Is that success?


You do when you win them,

Pretty Boy
31-03-2014, 10:57 AM
:agree:

And a chaotic approach to day to day running, as everyone and their dog try to get their tuppence worth in.

Would this be the case though?

The most famous fan ownership model is obviously the Barcelona one and they hold presidential elections once every 2 years where interested parties can state their case to 'run the club'. It's not like every fan gets a vote on every decision. Really big decisions such as a change to the constitution (shirt sponsorship as an example) or the recent stadium move or redevelopment plan will go to full vote.

Closer to home and, sadly, closer to our level you have Ebbsfleet and FC United, one of whom seems to be running very well and relatively successfully. I've no idea what their structure is like but it seems to be working, at that level.

mmmmhibby
31-03-2014, 10:59 AM
Surely Sir Tom must care about our fans? Its us who have to suffer this rubbish week in week out. Surely he must think of how many times we have been left disappointed? Surely he must've thought about the thousands of fans at them SC Finals and our potential when seeing 25k there. Fact of the matter is neither Rod or STF could pay our support back for the gratitude we have show this team. Never Ever!!!!

Tyler Durden
31-03-2014, 11:01 AM
You do when you win them,

And we've won one of our last 4/5? So I don't think the fact that we've "been in more cup finals in the last 25 years than St Johnstone have had in their history" is anything to shout about. Bizarre.

HappyAsHellas
31-03-2014, 11:02 AM
It's well known in business circles that if you want to lose a fortune, buy a football club. What some people are hoping for is a hibby with a few hundred million to spare and to use it to buy a team that will last for, in reality, a few seasons. If anyone knows where such a buffoon exists, then by all means get in touch with him/her. Hearts wont be the last club to go to the wall. The fact that Killie and co have re negotiated their debt is seen as something good. It is if you think the financial %uck up that is Greece is good, or you believe in debt consolidation. We are the envy of many many clubs in Scotland in a financial sense. On the pitch we need to improve but I'm sure we can raise at least 8 - 10 thousand Hibs fans to donate several hundred pounds a year to the cause. Come on people, dig deep. you know you want to..............

greenpaper55
31-03-2014, 11:43 AM
Sir Tom will always be rightly regarded as our saviour from Wallet Merciless and it is reputed he paid 3 million for his slice of the shares. Since then WE the fans have paid many more times that amount in ST's and merchandise so in reality WE the fans are the saviour of the club year in year out !. This is forgotten by Rod and co and they should be dancing to our tune and not the other way round. One answer might be a fans representative on the board, for to long we as fans have been kept in the dark as to the running of the club and we are drip fed information of whats going on on a need to know basis apart from when it's ST renewal time when there is a charm offensive !. We all hear rumours of things like a wage cap or interference from above which might be nonsense or not but we as fans need answers to these questions and a fans representative on the board should be able to give us feedback on the way the club is run . For to long the club has been run as a personal fiefdom by Rod and he should be in no doubt that it is us the fans who keep him in a job and we the fans are the major stakeholder in the club.

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 12:24 PM
When Sir Tom bought the club and ultimately saved us from going out of business he made it clear that "never again" would he allow the club to be put into that position again. He made it clear he was not a football man and that he was driven by saving the club for the community of Leith.

There was not one single Hibs fan who was not delighted by this and extremely grateful for Sir Toms intervention.

Since then, we have gone on to win two trophies, suffered relegation and won promotion, build a brand new stadium and Training facility and reached another 5 cup finals as well as seeing some top quality players play for our club.

Yes we have moved those players on for profit, but this has helped to improve the infrastructure of the club, which was an important and necessary condition put on clubs who wanted to play at the high end of league football and in European competition, at the same time as keeping debt to a manageable level.

The manager is given all funds that are raised through season ticket sales and attendances as well as the sale of merchandise, to improve the playing squad year after year after year.

Sir Tom has kept his promise. Hibs are here for the long term, we have facilities that are here for the long term, any debt the club has is manageable, there is an infrastructure in place that gives us the best opportunity to build for the future in terms of breeding our own players.

Sir Tom has said that if anyone suitable came along to buy the club, he would happily sell it to them.
the fact is that there is nobody of that ilk out there that can realistically protect what Sir Tom promised us all that he would do.

i totally accept that,given what he has done, there is a raft of under achievements during his tenure. A string of bad managerial appointments, no real talent coming from the academy, and poor results and performances on the pitch.

Yes, as, he needs to address this, yes he maybe needs to start asking more questions, yes he may need to look at a new direction. But move on? No chance.
As I have said Sir Tom has kept every promise he ever made to Hibs fans and the Leith community as a whole, he has kept the wolf from the door and if it wasn't for Sir Tom we could have been in the same boat as our neighbours. Anyone else would have sold up a long time ago. Thankfully we had someone like Sir Tom to keep us from the clutches of the wolves.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 12:28 PM
When Sir Tom bought the club and ultimately saved us from going out of business he made it clear that "never again" would he allow the club to be put into that position again. He made it clear he was not a football man and that he was driven by saving the club for the community of Leith.

There was not one single Hibs fan who was not delighted by this and extremely grateful for Sir Toms intervention.

Since then, we have gone on to win two trophies, suffered relegation and won promotion, build a brand new stadium and Training facility and reached another 5 cup finals as well as seeing some top quality players play for our club.

Yes we have moved those players on for profit, but this has helped to improve the infrastructure of the club, which was an important and necessary condition put on clubs who wanted to play at the high end of league football and in European competition, at the same time as keeping debt to a manageable level.

The manager is given all funds that are raised through season ticket sales and attendances as well as the sale of merchandise, to improve the playing squad year after year after year.

Sir Tom has kept his promise. Hibs are here for the long term, we have facilities that are here for the long term, any debt the club has is manageable, there is an infrastructure in place that gives us the best opportunity to build for the future in terms of breeding our own players.

Sir Tom has said that if anyone suitable came along to buy the club, he would happily sell it to them.
the fact is that there is nobody of that ilk out there that can realistically protect what Sir Tom promised us all that he would do.

i totally accept that,given what he has done, there is a raft of under achievements during his tenure. A string of bad managerial appointments, no real talent coming from the academy, and poor results and performances on the pitch.

Yes, as, he needs to address this, yes he maybe needs to start asking more questions, yes he may need to look at a new direction. But move on? No chance.
As I have said Sir Tom has kept every promise he ever made to Hibs fans and the Leith community as a whole, he has kept the wolf from the door and if it wasn't for Sir Tom we could have been in the same boat as our neighbours. Anyone else would have sold up a long time ago. Thankfully we had someone like Sir Tom to keep us from the clutches of the wolves.

STF said he saved our club for the benefit of the Leith community, well the Leith community and beyond are suffering. :rolleyes:

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 12:32 PM
STF said he saved our club for the benefit of the Leith community, well the Leith community and beyond are suffering. :rolleyes:
I agree. But him selling to the wrong person isn't the answer.

Keith_M
31-03-2014, 12:36 PM
When Sir Tom...

I said yesterday that it is in no way contradictory to be both grateful for the intervention Farmer made in 1990 but to also be of the opinion that it is now maybe time for him to hand over the reigns to someone else. The feeling among a lot of fans is that we need someone in charge that has a real drive and determination to make our club the best that it can be. What we currently have is a club that is at best treading water and at worst slowly sinking.

An opportunity is being lost to take advantage of the absence of Rangers and a crippled Hearts. We see other clubs finally getting their act together (e.g D-Utd and Aberdeen) and wonder why it is that we are not doing the same.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 12:42 PM
I agree. But him selling to the wrong person isn't the answer.

Is this the only option on the table? I get fed up with all this bullsheite that he saved the club, FFS that was before about half of the folk who supported us at tynecastle yesterday were even born.

We need someone who owns us to take a ****in interest in us, and we also need that ****in condecending clown he's appointed to run things, out the bloody door and as far away from this club as possible.

A new owner could make us worse, they could also make us better. What stinks is the current incumbent is doing sweet fanny adams to address this shambles of a club, and its here NOW just to exist.

oregonhibby
31-03-2014, 12:42 PM
I don't think he needs to sell it but I think he needs to do something with it.

We all thank Tom for what he did and will do so as long as we live. However, he is in danger of allowing the Club to crumble and his legacy will crumble with it.

He knows that customers ultimately decide how successful a business is and fundamental this is a football business.

Supporters want hope and we are being denied hope.

The Club is acting as if nothing is wrong. It doesn't communicate effectively and when it tries it is patronising.


Last year the call was for fans to dig deep and to do their part and we did. What did we get back?

After two ignominious cup finals we don't hear the board saying that will never happen again in my watch. If we are a big club we need to act like one otherwise we are irrelevant. A provincial team who can't win a thing.

jdships
31-03-2014, 03:08 PM
Brilliant. What's the suggestion then? Where's the queue of multi-millionaires waiting to invest? Where's the one, fairly rich guy who wants to waste his cash?

Oh, sorry. They don't exist. You must mean fan ownership? Brilliant (again).

Aye : your holding all the aces in this argument :agree::thumbsup:

Saorsa
31-03-2014, 03:18 PM
At the very very least Farmer should be telling us what his plans are for our club. At the moment we hear nothing except for the jangling of collecting tins when our season tickets are due for renewal.

We need to know what his strategy and objectives are. Are plans already in place for a smooth handover to potential buyers who have Hibs at heart?

The time for this ongoing silence is well and truly at an end.There is a plan, it's a top secret 5 year plan :agree:

number 27
31-03-2014, 03:24 PM
Aye : your holding all the aces in this argument :agree::thumbsup:


Yep, the only option is to stay as we are, hopefully it will continue to bring the same level of success :rolleyes:

Honestly, it is so depressing how many Hibs supporters are scared of considering any kind of change, surely you cant be happy with where we are? is it not worth at least considering other options instead of cowering away, terrified of doing anything positive to try to improve things?

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 03:25 PM
We are actually past the point of being the laughing stock of Edinburgh football. Beaten 3 times by a Hearts team in admin, it's no longer considered a shock in the slightest.

Cup finals? Do you get a prize for getting to cup finals? Is that success?

It's not a success, in the same way that Liquidation isn't a failure. Namely, it's how you define success and failure that is important.

So, are Hibs any more a failure than any other Scottish team? Apparently not, as we frequently compete in the latter stages of national tournaments and even win them on occasion.

Of course looking at things that way doesn't suit the post derby knee jerk approach to planning.

Should Hibs be doing better - probably. Are they failures - probably not. Won't stop the morons gathering behind the stand though, particularly if the TV cameras go along.

MWHIBBIES
31-03-2014, 03:25 PM
brilliant what a great jobI'd rather be in our current situation than not exist, muppet.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 03:29 PM
Yep, the only option is to stay as we are, hopefully it will continue to bring the same level of success :rolleyes:

Honestly, it is so depressing how many Hibs supporters are scared of considering any kind of change, surely you cant be happy with where we are? is it not worth at least considering other options instead of cowering away, terrified of doing anything positive to try to improve things?

:agree: Did you know Hibs cease to exist the same day STF is no more.

number 27
31-03-2014, 03:30 PM
:agree: Did you know Hibs cease to exist the same day STF is no more.

Portsmouth, Leeds, Plums etc.

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 03:31 PM
Yep, the only option is to stay as we are, hopefully it will continue to bring the same level of success :rolleyes:

Honestly, it is so depressing how many Hibs supporters are scared of considering any kind of change, surely you cant be happy with where we are? is it not worth at least considering other options instead of cowering away, terrified of doing anything positive to try to improve things?

Im not scared of change, I'm scared of the people that are proposing it. People with no real idea how to improve things, or where we will get the money to improve them. Surprised none of you is proposing investing in hotels and pubs, or even going to the stock exchange.

I think, to be taken seriously, you could at least acknowledge the concerns of people who went through the trouble of the late 80s. It would show that you have considered what could go wrong, and that you have a good knowledge of the club.

So please avoid words like "cowering" and "terrified" when describing other supporters. It's not helpful to the debate.

The Falcon
31-03-2014, 03:36 PM
:agree: Did you know Hibs cease to exist the same day STF is no more.

What a ridiculous statement.

Scottie
31-03-2014, 03:38 PM
Is this the only option on the table? I get fed up with all this bullsheite that he saved the club, FFS that was before about half of the folk who supported us at tynecastle yesterday were even born.

We need someone who owns us to take a ****in interest in us, and we also need that ****in condecending clown he's appointed to run things, out the bloody door and as far away from this club as possible.

A new owner could make us worse, they could also make us better. What stinks is the current incumbent is doing sweet fanny adams to address this shambles of a club, and its here NOW just to exist.

Could'ny agree more

The time is now before there are no more supporters left to follow the Hibs.

The only way the club (board) will listen to us fans is if the noise is LOUD and CLEAR. From the terraces to the rooftops we should be raging and venting our anger and disgust towards them but Still give our all vocal SUPPORT to the team (mind you no sure they deserve it at the mo)

IT can't go on any longer. They asked us to back them the last few years by buying the season tickets so it's now their time to invest in the playing squad and show us their loyalty. :fuming::fuming::fuming:

number 27
31-03-2014, 03:39 PM
Im not scared of change, I'm scared of the people that are proposing it. People with no real idea how to improve things, or where we will get the money to improve them. Surprised none of you is proposing investing in hotels and pubs, or even going to the stock exchange.

I think, to be taken seriously, you could at least acknowledge the concerns of people who went through the trouble of the late 80s. It would show that you have considered what could go wrong, and that you have a good knowledge of the club.

So please avoid words like "cowering" and "terrified" when describing other supporters. It's not helpful to the debate.


Given some language you have used in the past I find that a fairly laughable post. For your information I went through the late 80's and it does not make me find our current situation acceptable.

Saying that you would accept change only not from anyone actually suggesting it sounds to me like someone who either is scared of change or likes being where we are now. I cant understand how anyone can be in that position to be honest.

jakeshibs
31-03-2014, 03:42 PM
When Sir Tom bought the club and ultimately saved us from going out of business he made it clear that "never again" would he allow the club to be put into that position again. He made it clear he was not a football man and that he was driven by saving the club for the community of Leith.

There was not one single Hibs fan who was not delighted by this and extremely grateful for Sir Toms intervention.

Since then, we have gone on to win two trophies, suffered relegation and won promotion, build a brand new stadium and Training facility and reached another 5 cup finals as well as seeing some top quality players play for our club.

Yes we have moved those players on for profit, but this has helped to improve the infrastructure of the club, which was an important and necessary condition put on clubs who wanted to play at the high end of league football and in European competition, at the same time as keeping debt to a manageable level.

The manager is given all funds that are raised through season ticket sales and attendances as well as the sale of merchandise, to improve the playing squad year after year after year.

Sir Tom has kept his promise. Hibs are here for the long term, we have facilities that are here for the long term, any debt the club has is manageable, there is an infrastructure in place that gives us the best opportunity to build for the future in terms of breeding our own players.

Sir Tom has said that if anyone suitable came along to buy the club, he would happily sell it to them.
the fact is that there is nobody of that ilk out there that can realistically protect what Sir Tom promised us all that he would do.

i totally accept that,given what he has done, there is a raft of under achievements during his tenure. A string of bad managerial appointments, no real talent coming from the academy, and poor results and performances on the pitch.

Yes, as, he needs to address this, yes he maybe needs to start asking more questions, yes he may need to look at a new direction. But move on? No chance.
As I have said Sir Tom has kept every promise he ever made to Hibs fans and the Leith community as a whole, he has kept the wolf from the door and if it wasn't for Sir Tom we could have been in the same boat as our neighbours. Anyone else would have sold up a long time ago. Thankfully we had someone like Sir Tom to keep us from the clutches of the wolves.

well said sir, totally agree!

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 03:44 PM
What a ridiculous statement.

Of course i know that its a ridiculous statement, but there are folk on here who are so scared of their own shadow, and cant think of life at easter road without him, it seems to me they just put up with any old sheite while he's the owner.

The constant mantra of be careful what you wish for, is just folk scared of crossing the road without their mummy.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 03:45 PM
I'd rather be in our current situation than not exist, muppet.

And of course that is the only other option, idiot.

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 03:48 PM
Could'ny agree more

The time is now before there are no more supporters left to follow the Hibs.

The only way the club (board) will listen to us fans is if the noise is LOUD and CLEAR. From the terraces to the rooftops we should be raging and venting our anger and disgust towards them but Still give our all vocal SUPPORT to the team (mind you no sure they deserve it at the mo)

IT can't go on any longer. They asked us to back them the last few years by buying the season tickets so it's now their time to invest in the playing squad and show us their loyalty. :fuming::fuming::fuming:

Make sure you appoint a spokesman, a protest group is no use without a "fans spokesman".


Given some language you have used in the past I find that a fairly laughable post. For your information I went through the late 80's and it does not make me find our current situation acceptable.

Saying that you would accept change only not from anyone actually suggesting it sounds to me like someone who either is scared of change or likes being where we are now. I cant understand how anyone can be in that position to be honest.

No it suggests I think the people proposing the change are driven by desperation, and will not be thinking straight, I don't trust supporters to be involved in change, it has led to disaster at clubs.

In all honesty, I think the majority of people who get involved in these things end up we'll out of their depth. A bit like that fud that was on the telly last year trying to get a protest movement going.

Supporters are not genetically programmed to run football clubs. They are also naive on the business side, and are sitting ducks for sharp operators with an eye on a quick buck and a soft touch.

By the way, I have used provocative language in the past. I wasn't stupid enough to think I'd get people to take my point if view by insulting them though.

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 03:49 PM
I said yesterday that it is in no way contradictory to be both grateful for the intervention Farmer made in 1990 but to also be of the opinion that it is now maybe time for him to hand over the reigns to someone else. The feeling among a lot of fans is that we need someone in charge that has a real drive and determination to make our club the best that it can be. What we currently have is a club that is at best treading water and at worst slowly sinking.

An opportunity is being lost to take advantage of the absence of Rangers and a crippled Hearts. We see other clubs finally getting their act together (e.g D-Utd and Aberdeen) and wonder why it is that we are not doing the same.

ok then.

who?

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 03:50 PM
Of course i know that its a ridiculous statement, but there are folk on here who are so scared of their own shadow, and cant think of life at easter road without him, it seems to me they just put up with any old sheite while he's the owner.

The constant mantra of be careful what you wish for, is just folk scared of crossing the road without their mummy.


ok then.

who is it you have in mind?

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 03:52 PM
Could'ny agree more

The time is now before there are no more supporters left to follow the Hibs.

The only way the club (board) will listen to us fans is if the noise is LOUD and CLEAR. From the terraces to the rooftops we should be raging and venting our anger and disgust towards them but Still give our all vocal SUPPORT to the team (mind you no sure they deserve it at the mo)

IT can't go on any longer. They asked us to back them the last few years by buying the season tickets so it's now their time to invest in the playing squad and show us their loyalty. :fuming::fuming::fuming:



you want a new owner?

gonnae let us know who?

Keith_M
31-03-2014, 03:55 PM
Tom Farmer will celebrate his 74th Birthday this year.

It's a sad fact that we will have to contemplate a Hibs owned by someone else in the near future. I'm of the opinion that he needs to start this transition of ownership sooner, rather than later. I'm very happy that he shares the same opinion as the rest of us, that Hibs must be preserved for current and future generations. I'd be very interested in hearing his plan to make that happen.

number 27
31-03-2014, 03:59 PM
No it suggests I think the people proposing the change are driven by desperation, and will not be thinking straight, I don't trust supporters to be involved in change, it has led to disaster at clubs.

In all honesty, I think the majority of people who get involved in these things end up we'll out of their depth. A bit like that fud that was on the telly last year trying to get a protest movement going.

Supporters are not genetically programmed to run football clubs. They are also naive on the business side, and are sitting ducks for sharp operators with an eye on a quick buck and a soft touch.

By the way, I have used provocative language in the past. I wasn't stupid enough to think I'd get people to take my point if view by insulting them though.


Lets assume for one minute that I am interested in getting you to take my point. I would suggest that we dont need to be driven by desperation, we have time to organise a succession and if STF was interested we could go about it in a way that could combat the problems you highlight. We could be consulting now and setting up a framework to run the club properly, STF and Rod could be involved, surely it is worth at least investigating?

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2014, 03:59 PM
ok then.

who is it you have in mind?

I dont have a scooby, what i do know though. Is if i cant give something my all, or i cant make something i am in charge of better. Then its time for me to look for new ideas, or get someone in who has the time and energy and can make it better.

More of the same is not an option.

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 04:06 PM
Lets assume for one minute that I am interested in getting you to take my point. I would suggest that we dont need to be driven by desperation, we have time to organise a succession and if STF was interested we could go about it in a way that could combat the problems you highlight. We could be consulting now and setting up a framework to run the club properly, STF and Rod could be involved, surely it is worth at least investigating?

Well what's the point of advocating change if you can't carry other supporters with you? I'm just trying to make it clear that whilst we may want change, there will be differing camps when it comes to the route we take.

i agree that some form of change has to happen soon. I'd have to be convinced it was change for the better before supporting it though.

The Modfather
31-03-2014, 04:09 PM
ok then.

who?

Stop being deliberately obtuse! Have you never speculated on a new player or a new manager without knowing the clubs budget, thus no idea if those targets were obtainable or not.

If Farmer was to come out and say the club is for sale to the right person, rather than the whispers we hear, and how much he was looking for we then might be in a position to give you alternatives.

If you are so desperate for a name anyone on this list would do - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_by_net_worth you happy now? Can we now contemplate and discuss change?

WHUHibs
31-03-2014, 04:50 PM
Then mere mortals shouldn't make knee-jerk calls for the removal of safe owners.

People should get the news into their skulls that there is no one out there waiting to take on Hibs, without offering an alternative - which there isn't. If there was, it would have happened. If there was, someone similar would have rescued hertz. They haven't. They're going to be liquidated, because the budge offer is laughable, and their fan ownership plan is ludicrous.

Why is it ludicrous?

WHUHibs
31-03-2014, 04:53 PM
Well what's the point of advocating change if you can't carry other supporters with you? I'm just trying to make it clear that whilst we may want change, there will be differing camps when it comes to the route we take.

i agree that some form of change has to happen soon. I'd have to be convinced it was change for the better before supporting it though.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if we could set up a working group for change? Find out peoples opinions and try and find a consensus?

Its is clear that we have finanical stability but at the same time we want to have a winning team now there is the million dollar question,,how do we achieve both?

It is clear from the way we are run at the moment we are not achieving the latter.

WHUHibs
31-03-2014, 04:57 PM
Tom Farmer will celebrate his 74th Birthday this year.

It's a sad fact that we will have to contemplate a Hibs owned by someone else in the near future. I'm of the opinion that he needs to start this transition of ownership sooner, rather than later. I'm very happy that he shares the same opinion as the rest of us, that Hibs must be preserved for current and future generations. I'd be very interested in hearing his plan to make that happen.

This hits the nail on the head succession planning.

It is normal in any business to look at how its run and plan for eventualities fo people leaving a business through movement of jobs, illness or unfortuantely death. Im sure STF will have a plan of moving his investment if something happens.

The business plan within the club will hold a strategy( debateable if it would be shared) but HR will normally expect succession planning so will the banks and other investors.

If not we are in trouble!

oregonhibby
31-03-2014, 05:15 PM
There are no other investors bar those who have a smidgen of a shareholding.

I am sure these things have been considered by Tom and there will be a solution outlined.

I could foresee RP owning the lot!

Scottie
31-03-2014, 05:31 PM
you want a new owner?

gonnae let us know who?

What is it you want then ?

Another 50 years of underachievement and mediaocracy ?

I would take anyone who would show us a little in return for the investment we have all put in the last 30 -40 years. Would you rather be sitting in the old cow shed watching a fantastic team or in our shinny new stadium watching a load of journeymen that don't give a crap about our club or us ?

Maybe your happy with what's on offer so we'll all sit back and enjoy the wonderful football that we see every week at ER.

Just look up the road to Aberdeen and you'll see that investment in the team pays dividends. We're not asking millions here just enough to make us proud of our team not embarrassed. If STF can give us that then I'm happy for him to stay :greengrin

Kaiser1962
31-03-2014, 05:34 PM
Tom Farmer will celebrate his 74th Birthday this year.

It's a sad fact that we will have to contemplate a Hibs owned by someone else in the near future. I'm of the opinion that he needs to start this transition of ownership sooner, rather than later. I'm very happy that he shares the same opinion as the rest of us, that Hibs must be preserved for current and future generations. I'd be very interested in hearing his plan to make that happen.


Plans for transition will be well advanced by now I would guess. STF has been here longer than he ever planned to be.

silverhibee
31-03-2014, 05:37 PM
STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings

:confused:

When was this, i seen him out walking with his missus a few weeks back.

Kaiser1962
31-03-2014, 05:37 PM
your happy with what's on offer so we'll all sit back and enjoy the wonderful football that we see every week at ER.

Just look up the road to Aberdeen and you'll see that investment in the team pays dividends. We're not asking millions here just enough to make us proud of our team not embarrassed. If STF can give us that then I'm happy for him to stay :greengrin

Aberdeen have been trying to achieve what they have this season for almost 20 years, overspending by near £30m in the process.

clerriehibs
31-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Stop being deliberately obtuse! Have you never speculated on a new player or a new manager without knowing the clubs budget, thus no idea if those targets were obtainable or not.

If Farmer was to come out and say the club is for sale to the right person, rather than the whispers we hear, and how much he was looking for we then might be in a position to give you alternatives.

If you are so desperate for a name anyone on this list would do - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_by_net_worth you happy now? Can we now contemplate and discuss change?



****ing marvellous. A list of rich people. How utterly ... pointless.

Mikey
31-03-2014, 05:41 PM
Perhaps it would be a good idea if we could set up a working group for change? Find out peoples opinions and try and find a consensus?

Its is clear that we have finanical stability but at the same time we want to have a winning team now there is the million dollar question,,how do we achieve both?

It is clear from the way we are run at the moment we are not achieving the latter.

There are hints on the PM board that there's one on the go already but it's top secret.

WHUHibs
31-03-2014, 05:50 PM
There are hints on the PM board that there's one on the go already but it's top secret.

Okay fingers crossed,,,some good will happen eventually for us Hibbies as the pain is currently hard to take!

Phil D. Rolls
31-03-2014, 05:52 PM
What is it you want then ?

Another 50 years of underachievement and mediaocracy ?

I would take anyone who would show us a little in return for the investment we have all put in the last 30 -40 years. Would you rather be sitting in the old cow shed watching a fantastic team or in our shinny new stadium watching a load of journeymen that don't give a crap about our club or us ?

Maybe your happy with what's on offer so we'll all sit back and enjoy the wonderful football that we see every week at ER.

Just look up the road to Aberdeen and you'll see that investment in the team pays dividends. We're not asking millions here just enough to make us proud of our team not embarrassed. If STF can give us that then I'm happy for him to stay :greengrin

What are realistic ambitions for Hibs, and how do we raise the money to reach them. There's no way I'm baking cakes, by the way.

silverhibee
31-03-2014, 05:54 PM
STF is not running things as far as I'm aware, his son has taken over since his recent stroke. His son has even less interest in football, so it look as though Petrie is pulling all the strings

:confused:

When was this, i seen him out walking with his missus a few weeks back.

Keith_M
31-03-2014, 06:08 PM
There are hints on the PM board that there's one on the go already but it's top secret.


Is it that time of the year again already?


:greengrin

Keith_M
31-03-2014, 06:10 PM
Plans for transition will be well advanced by now I would guess. STF has been here longer than he ever planned to be.

If anyone considers the fans of a football club to be important at all, then it would be nice to know what these plans are.

The Modfather
31-03-2014, 06:33 PM
****ing marvellous. A list of rich people. How utterly ... pointless.

Much like your loaded questions as to "who"?

Kaiser1962
31-03-2014, 07:20 PM
If anyone considers the fans of a football club to be important at all, then it would be nice to know what these plans are.

Again previous discussions about 10-12 years ago were surrounding the set up of a trust that would run the football club allowing STF to ride off into the sunset mission accomplished. Were they not discussed at one of the AGM's around that time?

RIP
31-03-2014, 10:26 PM
The people proposing the change are driven by desperation, and will not be thinking straight, I don't trust supporters to be involved in change.

In all honesty, I think the majority of people who get involved in these things end up we'll out of their depth.

Supporters are not genetically programmed to run football clubs. They are also naive on the business side, and are sitting ducks for sharp operators with an eye on a quick buck and a soft touch.

Think you just took the words out of Rod's mouth there FR.

You reckon the 'powers that be' can look down on supporters and rest assured that only they have the intelligence and commercial experience to run a football club?

Dont buy it! Every director I've met at our club is a Hibs supporter through and through. I've also met or talked to other supporters who successfully manage annual budgets ten times the size of our annual turnover.

This 'us and them' picture you paint bears no relation to the trends in community ownership currently expanding in European football.

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 10:47 PM
Im not scared of change, I'm scared of the people that are proposing it. People with no real idea how to improve things, or where we will get the money to improve them. Surprised none of you is proposing investing in hotels and pubs, or even going to the stock exchange.

I think, to be taken seriously, you could at least acknowledge the concerns of people who went through the trouble of the late 80s. It would show that you have considered what could go wrong, and that you have a good knowledge of the club.

So please avoid words like "cowering" and "terrified" when describing other supporters. It's not helpful to the debate.
Good post Filled Rolls. I want Hibs to be competing at the top of the league and being serious contenders in the cups every year, even the chance of a good run in Europe. I'm no different to any other Hibs supporter in that respect.
I'm not however prepared to demand that regardless of consequence.
I, along with thousands of others that still go and watch Hibs, went through hell at the thought of us not existing anymore.
I trust Sir Tom to do what is best.
The fact is that nobody has made him an offer that he would consider as the right person hasn't come along yet. If they do, I'm sure that Sir Tom would gladly step aside. It amazes me that some people forget where we were when he took over.

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 10:50 PM
Could'ny agree more

The time is now before there are no more supporters left to follow the Hibs.

The only way the club (board) will listen to us fans is if the noise is LOUD and CLEAR. From the terraces to the rooftops we should be raging and venting our anger and disgust towards them but Still give our all vocal SUPPORT to the team (mind you no sure they deserve it at the mo)

IT can't go on any longer. They asked us to back them the last few years by buying the season tickets so it's now their time to invest in the playing squad and show us their loyalty. :fuming::fuming::fuming:
So what would your message be? What solutions would you propose to improve things?

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 10:59 PM
I dont have a scooby, what i do know though. Is if i cant give something my all, or i cant make something i am in charge of better. Then its time for me to look for new ideas, or get someone in who has the time and energy and can make it better.

More of the same is not an option.
He made it clear from the outset that he was not going to be involved in the running of the football club. This, I assume, was ok with you when he stepped in when he was needed.

truehibernian
31-03-2014, 11:02 PM
Again previous discussions about 10-12 years ago were surrounding the set up of a trust that would run the football club allowing STF to ride off into the sunset mission accomplished. Were they not discussed at one of the AGM's around that time?

I'd be interested to know what the plans re this are ? Last time I chatted with Sir Tom his only gambit when I questioned Hibs lack of ambition in the top flight (at an event at St Giles) was 'aye but you'll be buying a season ticket' !

The fans are being taken for a ride......it's simple as that. :aok: he saved us, stabilised us, but he has no interest whatsoever in football matters (on the pitch). A gent but not someone who we should be looking at to lead clearly - he gave that role to Rod - and he hides behind statements and pleas for cash.

Be nice for Rod to come out in the media and do a few interviews..........will never ever ever happen !!!! Utterly detached - players, fans, Board.......detached, not united.

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 11:06 PM
This hits the nail on the head succession planning.

It is normal in any business to look at how its run and plan for eventualities fo people leaving a business through movement of jobs, illness or unfortuantely death. Im sure STF will have a plan of moving his investment if something happens.

The business plan within the club will hold a strategy( debateable if it would be shared) but HR will normally expect succession planning so will the banks and other investors.

If not we are in trouble!
We are talking about one of the most successful businessmen this country has produced. I have no doubt that Sir Tom has plans in place for every eventuality. I trust in the promises he made to us and see no reason to believe that he would not have plans in place to carry that promise on.

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 11:14 PM
What is it you want then ?

Another 50 years of underachievement and mediaocracy ?

I would take anyone who would show us a little in return for the investment we have all put in the last 30 -40 years. Would you rather be sitting in the old cow shed watching a fantastic team or in our shinny new stadium watching a load of journeymen that don't give a crap about our club or us ?

Maybe your happy with what's on offer so we'll all sit back and enjoy the wonderful football that we see every week at ER.

Just look up the road to Aberdeen and you'll see that investment in the team pays dividends. We're not asking millions here just enough to make us proud of our team not embarrassed. If STF can give us that then I'm happy for him to stay :greengrin
Aberdeen had invested in their stadium a long time before we had to in response to the Taylor report. They are also looking at moving to a purpose built stadium outside the city to avoid more investment in Pittodrie. I thought that was something that we as Hibs fans didn't want us to do.

truehibernian
31-03-2014, 11:29 PM
Aberdeen had invested in their stadium a long time before we had to in response to the Taylor report. They are also looking at moving to a purpose built stadium outside the city to avoid more investment in Pittodrie. I thought that was something that we as Hibs fans didn't want us to do.

Eh ? Aberdeen didn't have to invest due to the Taylor Report......their stadium was pretty much all seater way way prior to that. They built the Dick Donald as a tribute.

They also trained at Seaton Park for years until they went up to Balgownie, Pittodrie and other pitches. They are actively looking for a site for a training centre.

Until then they have invested in their team. Hibs have done the reverse.....invested in infrastructure with the proceeds of football transfers. There are arguments for and against that strategy, but if you are a football fan you'd want the former. I didn't watch Hibs so I could admire the stadium.....I followed Hibs because I loved the terrace, the cigar smoke, the industrial language and the fact my dear old grandad said they were bloody gods !

RIP Bestie
31-03-2014, 11:59 PM
7]Eh ? Aberdeen didn't have to invest due to the Taylor Report.[/B].....their stadium was pretty much all seater way way prior to that. They built the Dick Donald as a tribute.

They also trained at Seaton Park for years until they went up to Balgownie, Pittodrie and other pitches. They are actively looking for a site for a training centre.

Until then they have invested in their team. Hibs have done the reverse.....invested in infrastructure with the proceeds of football transfers. There are arguments for and against that strategy, but if you are a football fan you'd want the former. I didn't watch Hibs so I could admire the stadium.....I followed Hibs because I loved the terrace, the cigar smoke, the industrial language and the fact my dear old grandad said they were bloody gods !
Read my post again. That's what I said......... We had to invest due to the Taylor Report and we now have a stadium that is compliment for both SPFL and UEFA competition. Whether we like it or not, it was necessary to invest in the stadium as staying the same was not an option. Unlike Aberdeen who had done this years before.

truehibernian
01-04-2014, 12:13 AM
Read my post again. That's what I said......... We had to invest due to the Taylor Report and we now have a stadium that is compliment for both SPFL and UEFA competition. Whether we like it or not, it was necessary to invest in the stadium as staying the same was not an option. Unlike Aberdeen who had done this years before.

Apologies Bestie, read it back......get your point now mate :agree:

IWasThere2016
01-04-2014, 05:08 AM
Aberdeen have been trying to achieve what they have this season for almost 20 years, overspending by near £30m in the process.

Their debt is £9m to our £5m. It is affordable - particularly with the result they'll post this season (particularly if they achieve a cup double and STs will be very healthy). They've improved in the last 7 years - by as much as we've regressed. But we have it right of course :rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2014, 07:05 AM
He made it clear from the outset that he was not going to be involved in the running of the football club. This, I assume, was ok with you when he stepped in when he was needed.

Of course it was, but that was how long ago? I helped my kids when they were young, they now go out and run their own lives, and both are doing well on their own without me making all their decisions for them.


We cant keep harking back to the days of mercer, yes STF did a magnificent job in saving us from death, but we need a different approach from someone new with time and effort in abundance to drive the club forward and lead from the top.

stoneyburn hibs
01-04-2014, 07:57 AM
Their debt is £9m to our £5m. It is affordable - particularly with the result they'll post this season (particularly if they achieve a cup double and STs will be very healthy). They've improved in the last 7 years - by as much as we've regressed. But we have it right of course :rolleyes:

Aberdeen have only improved this season.

stantonhibby
01-04-2014, 08:06 AM
Aberdeen have only improved this season.

Indeed - all these folk holding up Aberdeen as some sort of beacon of excellence seem to have deleted their last 20 years of mediocrity. Their recent cup win was their first since 1995 and their first appearance in a final for about 12 years with some horrific defeats in the cup along the way ( E Fife, Raith, Queens Park and of course QoS in a semi final)

truehibernian
01-04-2014, 08:29 AM
Indeed - all these folk holding up Aberdeen as some sort of beacon of excellence seem to have deleted their last 20 years of mediocrity. Their recent cup win was their first since 1995 and their first appearance in a final for about 12 years with some horrific defeats in the cup along the way ( E Fife, Raith, Queens Park and of course QoS in a semi final)

It's easy to jump on bandwagons when a certain club is doing well - we received plenty plaudits under TM and JC during the cup winning season.

But Aberdeen have been better than Hibs over the last decade - they reached the Europa League, been in Europe a few times, reached semi finals (who put them oot again :greengrin), under Calderwood they were always a top 6 side IIRC.

They have been like Hibs, very inconsistent. This season could be a special season for them, but you have to hand it to their Board for retaining McGinn, persuading Hayes, reinforcing with quality experience in Flood and Robson - and Willie Miller has to be congratulated too because had it not been for him years ago, their youth policy would be in the dark ages. He did a lot of work setting up 'four corners' across Scotland and identifying young talent, which you now see in Pawlett, Jack, Low, etc.

I'm just one for thinking that Hibs should never ever have to contemplate bottom 6, and repeated bottom 6 finishes. We should be up challenging for top 4 each and every season.

There is something miserable and rotting in the club - and there has been one 'mainstay' over the last two decades. He has to stand aside and fresh approaches need to be adopted. I do truly believe that if Rod stood aside, fans would feel refreshed and would be persuaded to come back if they knew there was someone at the helm with sheer drive and enthusiasm, that was clear to see and regularly providing updates on the club (not statements on websites, but in the media, really promoting and driving the club on).

RIP Bestie
01-04-2014, 11:19 AM
Of course it was, but that was how long ago? I helped my kids when they were young, they now go out and run their own lives, and both are doing well on their own without me making all their decisions for them.


We cant keep harking back to the days of mercer, yes STF did a magnificent job in saving us from death, but we need a different approach from someone new with time and effort in abundance to drive the club forward and lead from the top.
I would not disagree with this but we can't just invent this non existent person. The fact is that Sir Tom is the only person we have at the moment. No one else is coming forward.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2014, 11:51 AM
I would not disagree with this but we can't just invent this non existent person. The fact is that Sir Tom is the only person we have at the moment. No one else is coming forward.

And the reason i dont think anyone is coming forward is i dont believe he wants to sell, or even give it to someone else? As i said before, STF wont live forever somebody will have to take over when that day eventually comes. Should we be afraid, or should we look forward to a different kind of leadership?

RIP Bestie
01-04-2014, 12:02 PM
And the reason i dont think anyone is coming forward is i dont believe he wants to sell, or even give it to someone else? As i said before, STF wont live forever somebody will have to take over when that day eventually comes. Should we be afraid, or should we look forward to a different kind of leadership?
No I don't think we should be afraid, I'm confident that Sir Tom will have made plans for any eventuality.
I'm not so sure that he doesn't want to sell. He has always said he would sell to the right person and I believe him. There is no proof to say there is someone out there who is willing to make him an offer, we would surely have heard about it if someone was serious about it.

Keith_M
01-04-2014, 01:08 PM
No I don't think we should be afraid, I'm confident that Sir Tom will have made plans for any eventuality.
I'm not so sure that he doesn't want to sell. He has always said he would sell to the right person and I believe him. There is no proof to say there is someone out there who is willing to make him an offer, we would surely have heard about it if someone was serious about it.


So what is his plan then?

superfurryhibby
01-04-2014, 01:12 PM
I think STF should give Hibs away for free. Ideally to a mixture of fans trust and investors. He's has his day, done the job he set out to do and now it's time to move on.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2014, 01:53 PM
So what is his plan then?

All the plans the club have are very hush hush, only a select few may ever know the answers and they are all sworn to secrecy. :rolleyes:

MWHIBBIES
01-04-2014, 01:57 PM
And of course that is the only other option, idiot.No but without him we wouldn't exist, clown.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2014, 01:59 PM
No but without him we wouldn't exist, clown.

How long do we have to be so grateful? muppet.

Mikey
01-04-2014, 02:00 PM
Can we cut out the petty insults please.

It's going to be a long summer. Again.....

jakeshibs
01-04-2014, 03:52 PM
Good post Filled Rolls. I want Hibs to be competing at the top of the league and being serious contenders in the cups every year, even the chance of a good run in Europe. I'm no different to any other Hibs supporter in that respect.
I'm not however prepared to demand that regardless of consequence.
I, along with thousands of others that still go and watch Hibs, went through hell at the thought of us not existing anymore.
I trust Sir Tom to do what is best.
The fact is that nobody has made him an offer that he would consider as the right person hasn't come along yet. If they do, I'm sure that Sir Tom would gladly step aside. It amazes me that some people forget where we were when he took over.

I agree

Kaiser1962
01-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Their debt is £9m to our £5m. It is affordable - particularly with the result they'll post this season (particularly if they achieve a cup double and STs will be very healthy). They've improved in the last 7 years - by as much as we've regressed. But we have it right of course :rolleyes:


The Dandy Dons overall debt has been reduced substantially by a number of conversion to shares and a significant revaluation of the assets.

marinello59
01-04-2014, 04:29 PM
The Dandy Dons overall debt has been reduced substantially by a number of conversion to shares and a significant revaluation of the assets.

They still have to move out of Pittodrie sooner rather than later. That won't be cheap.

Kaiser1962
01-04-2014, 04:36 PM
I'd be interested to know what the plans re this are ? Last time I chatted with Sir Tom his only gambit when I questioned Hibs lack of ambition in the top flight (at an event at St Giles) was 'aye but you'll be buying a season ticket' !


I suspect it would work very similar to a fans buy out. There would be a committee (trust) appointed to oversee the running of the football club. In its initial stage, if I recall correctly, there would have been local dignitaries, captains of industry, ex players and fans representatives who had a common interest in the well being of Hibs. It is my opinion that this is where we will finally end up when STF and RP ride off together.

Kaiser1962
01-04-2014, 04:37 PM
They still have to move out of Pittodrie sooner rather than later. That won't be cheap.

I think that may have been the real driving force for the revaluations, with the debt reduction a happy consequence.

Keith_M
01-04-2014, 05:04 PM
No I don't think we should be afraid, I'm confident that Sir Tom will have made plans for any eventuality.
I'm not so sure that he doesn't want to sell. He has always said he would sell to the right person and I believe him. There is no proof to say there is someone out there who is willing to make him an offer, we would surely have heard about it if someone was serious about it.


So what is his plan then?


Any chance of an answer?

:dunno:

HappyAsHellas
01-04-2014, 07:10 PM
As far as I am aware, there are no large clubs being run under fan ownership, which to my mind would seem to say it's been tried before in a few different guises and doesn't work. This being the case we are either looking for a major investor, or possibly a large number of fans buying up a share issue that would maybe give us a bit of a voice with how things are run. This could be done on a yearly basis to set up a war kitty for management, but make no mistake, you would have to pay yearly, over and above ST's. This may just work if you're having a good season, but we are a fickle bunch in reality and that's probably why no one uses this as a business model. Short of this I don't see what else can be done, but I know bugger all about running a football club.:greengrin

I also think the lack of communication at present from the powers that be, to the fans, is diabolical.

Phil D. Rolls
01-04-2014, 07:15 PM
As far as I am aware, there are no large clubs being run under fan ownership, which to my mind would seem to say it's been tried before in a few different guises and doesn't work. This being the case we are either looking for a major investor, or possibly a large number of fans buying up a share issue that would maybe give us a bit of a voice with how things are run. This could be done on a yearly basis to set up a war kitty for management, but make no mistake, you would have to pay yearly, over and above ST's. This may just work if you're having a good season, but we are a fickle bunch in reality and that's probably why no one uses this as a business model. Short of this I don't see what else can be done, but I know bugger all about running a football club.:greengrin

I also think the lack of communication at present from the powers that be, to the fans, is diabolical.

I can think of examples when fan DD schemes have ended in tears.

RIP Bestie
01-04-2014, 10:38 PM
Any chance of an answer?

:dunno:
I don't have the answer, how would I? But do you seriously think that a man of his experience in business won't have contingencies in place if something were to happen to him. I'm sure, however, that the plan wouldn't be to sell to the first charlatan to come along waving a cheque book. For every Sir Tom Farmer there are possibly a thousand Romanov type businessmen that would like to get their hands on Hibs. I know who I would put my trust in.

Beefster
02-04-2014, 02:35 PM
As far as I am aware, there are no large clubs being run under fan ownership, which to my mind would seem to say it's been tried before in a few different guises and doesn't work.

I know they're not as good as they used to be but I reckon Barcelona are still a large club.

I'm not particularly in favour of supporter ownership but a lot of folk seem to think it involves 500 supporters in a room trying to make decisions.

silverhibee
02-04-2014, 03:18 PM
They still have to move out of Pittodrie sooner rather than later. That won't be cheap.

Why would that be, could they not revamp Pittodrie and give it a make over, i really don't see why clubs need to go out and build new stadiums nowadays, it's not worth it or needed in Scottish football anymore.

marinello59
02-04-2014, 03:58 PM
Why would that be, could they not revamp Pittodrie and give it a make over, i really don't see why clubs need to go out and build new stadiums nowadays, it's not worth it or needed in Scottish football anymore.

Staying at Pittodrie is not an option. Apparently the maintenance bills each year just to keep it in it's present condition are huge. It's why they were given a deadline several years ago by the bank to leave Pittodrie as part of a debt restructuring deal. That deadline appears to have been relaxed but the on going costs remain an issue.
Merely revamping their present ground is not an option as there is not enough space, mainly due to the small main stand they presently have. One option was to buy up a disused gasworks behind the ground and rotate the pitch 90 degrees. Unfortunately that land was bought up by Barratts and flats built on it whilst Aberdeen FC were trying to get a tax payer funded ground built elsewhere. At least they have a state of the art training facility. They share a pitch with a local private girls school. :greengrin

silverhibee
02-04-2014, 04:49 PM
Staying at Pittodrie is not an option. Apparently the maintenance bills each year just to keep it in it's present condition are huge. It's why they were given a deadline several years ago by the bank to leave Pittodrie as part of a debt restructuring deal. That deadline appears to have been relaxed but the on going costs remain an issue.
Merely revamping their present ground is not an option as there is not enough space, mainly due to the small main stand they presently have. One option was to buy up a disused gasworks behind the ground and rotate the pitch 90 degrees. Unfortunately that land was bought up by Barratts and flats built on it whilst Aberdeen FC were trying to get a tax payer funded ground built elsewhere. At least they have a state of the art training facility. They share a pitch with a local private girls school. :greengrin

:aok:

I suppose the land the ground is on must be worth a few quid and the Dons owner must have first dibs on it to build flats/houses on it when the Dons move which may pay towards there new stadium.

Bit in bold, don't tell Sparky. :greengrin

jgl07
03-04-2014, 02:11 PM
And why would anyone or any organization want to buy Hibs unless they had either a deep emotional connection to the club or were a crook.

Tom Farmer has seen off Brian Kennedy who wanted the stadium for a Rugby Union franchise and would have seen off Vlad had he come sniffing around.

There is no commercial case to buy into the SPFL apart from Celtic and The Rangers (and a very dubious one at that Celtic and even more so for The Rangers).

The idea that there is some go-getting potential owner out there wanting to sink millions into Hibs but being cold-shouldered by Tom Farmer is delusion.

I don't think that fan ownership is going to work either. If that ever happens with our pink neighbours I will await the outcome with interest. It might be a goer for the likes of Dunfermline or St Mirren but will not cut it for Hibs or Aberdeen.

RIP Bestie
05-04-2014, 10:39 PM
And of course that is the only other option, idiot.
This is acceptable? No ? Yes? Depends who you are?

Saorsa
05-04-2014, 10:47 PM
This is acceptable? No ? Yes? Depends who you are?Did you really go and look that up just because you got a warning? How sad.

--------
05-04-2014, 10:52 PM
Whatever the present board is doing isn't working.

They've been doing it for far too long and getting away with it.

Managers get pelters, players get pelters, but the Board, chairman and owner seem to be beyond criticism in the eyes of many of us. And when those of us who don't like what we're seeing post here to express our unease and concern for the future, our concern and unease is rubbished as scaremongering or we're told to be good little Hibbies and buy a season ticket.

The present board is backed by STF and his family. They aren't listening to the fans' dissatisfaction, and the situation isn't helped by the way so many supporters of STF and Petrie contend that the only alternative to the status quo is complete financial disaster and the demise of the club and the team.

Something needs to change at ER, or the club will continue the slow decline we've been seeing the past few years.

I have no confidence in the present chairman, and I want to see him gone. Nor do I have any confidence in the judgement of those who are keeping him in his position.

Things have to change. The only person who can change them right now would appear to me to be STF. The fact that he seems content with things as they are appals me.

RIP Bestie
05-04-2014, 10:52 PM
Did you really go and look that up just because you got a warning? How sad.
Just making a point. Fair one I thought. It really wasn't hard to find

jacomo
06-04-2014, 07:48 AM
I know they're not as good as they used to be but I reckon Barcelona are still a large club.

I'm not particularly in favour of supporter ownership but a lot of folk seem to think it involves 500 supporters in a room trying to make decisions.

Both Barca and Real Madrid are fan-owned. The fans elect a president to run the club.

The irony though is that both clubs have highly political structures, with candidates competing for votes. I think this has helped fuel the ludicrous Galactico era.

Although technically in control, I wonder if the fans at either institution really have much power?

NAE NOOKIE
06-04-2014, 07:13 PM
Whatever the present board is doing isn't working.

They've been doing it for far too long and getting away with it.

Managers get pelters, players get pelters, but the Board, chairman and owner seem to be beyond criticism in the eyes of many of us. And when those of us who don't like what we're seeing post here to express our unease and concern for the future, our concern and unease is rubbished as scaremongering or we're told to be good little Hibbies and buy a season ticket.

The present board is backed by STF and his family. They aren't listening to the fans' dissatisfaction, and the situation isn't helped by the way so many supporters of STF and Petrie contend that the only alternative to the status quo is complete financial disaster and the demise of the club and the team.

Something needs to change at ER, or the club will continue the slow decline we've been seeing the past few years.

I have no confidence in the present chairman, and I want to see him gone. Nor do I have any confidence in the judgement of those who are keeping him in his position.

Things have to change. The only person who can change them right now would appear to me to be STF. The fact that he seems content with things as they are appals me.

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

As I've said .... Saving a club is one thing, making it a success is quite another.

There have been a few comments about fans having little business sense and being naïve in matters relating to how a football club should be run and being unrealistic in their expectations.

But if ever the Frog and Scorpion scenario applied to a situation it is this one.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, who gets themselves involved with a football club no matter how well intentioned is naïve in the extreme if they labour under the impression that in the end they can avoid carrying the can for on field failure.

If STF has made any mistakes in this saga his biggest is the mistake of thinking that the mere existence of their club will keep fans happy for ever .... there is a reason that football manager is the least safe job in the world, not least of all at Easter Road. Winning is everything and sentiment only takes you so far.

Sacked or resigned before being sacked:

Pat Stanton ............... Hibs legend
John Blackley ............. Great Hibs player
Eddie Turnbull ............ Utter Hibs legend
Mixu Patalainnen ........ 6 - 2 hat trick hero
Franck Sauzee ............ Probably the most loved player since I started going in 1975... Given no time and shamefully sacked.

Proof if it was ever needed that gratitude and sentiment only go so far in this business.

Perhaps there are no Green Knights out there, but if that is the case the people in charge at this club need to do better and find ways to do better .... if they cant, or wont then we will not last in the top division and we will NEVER win the Scottish Cup

NEVER

Mikey
06-04-2014, 07:30 PM
Just making a point. Fair one I thought. It really wasn't hard to find

When that post was made the admin team were making regular posts on the main board asking people not to dish our personal abuse. There was going to come a time when those warnings would move away from the general board and be more specific.

If users showed each other a bit more respect there wouldn't be a need for it.

TornadoHibby
06-04-2014, 08:13 PM
I rarely post on the forum as I enjoy reading and somebody usually makes the point i would anyway.

I'm of the personal opinion that Mr Farmer is the number one culprit for the ongoing situation at our club! Don't get me wrong Petrie is woeful and should be gone but he's only acting on instructions from our Teflon owner. The whole acceptance of the mediocre filters right through the club and if you shoot for the average you end up so much worse.

Sir Tom will always have our thanks but surely the time is now to hand over to someone with a bit drive and passion, who'd actually feel like they've been shot in the guts by a result like today's.

Who do you suggest and what would the fundamental characteristics of be along with the motivation factors required for them to invest in the club and team at levels at least as significant as STF or, more probably, higher if the fanbase is to be fully satisfied with the owner change?! :confused:

RIP Bestie
06-04-2014, 08:13 PM
When that post was made the admin team were making regular posts on the main board asking people not to dish our personal abuse. There was going to come a time when those warnings would move away from the general board and be more specific.

If users showed each other a bit more respect there wouldn't be a need for it.
I understand that Mikey and to be fair it really doesn't bother me. If I'm being a k*ob or a clown or whatever! I deserve to be called one. But I understand that it does get to others and you have to stop it which is fair enough.