PDA

View Full Version : East mains



Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 02:42 PM
I am only a fan, not a manager/scout/chairman/coach etc, etc...............e.g. I have no expertise in any of the workings of a football team (I wasn't even a player at School level)

The main change I see since Mowbray/Collins is East Mains, :dunno: No idea why :dunno:, could be ER is now alien to us on match day, we train on perfect pitches then try and play on less than perfect pitches, No Team spirit, get them together in a mini bus for a hour a day looking for training facilities, instead of, turn up train leave, as has been stated many, many times players /managers do not just Sign for us then become crap, we all talk about Petrie as a Problem, is he at East Mains, Does he do a Vlad and Fax Butcher the team, he is not the problem, there is a problem, or several that compound on Match day.
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall

Keith_M
24-03-2014, 03:09 PM
Is it Deja-Vu all over again?


:dunno:

Jones28
24-03-2014, 03:15 PM
Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

Captain Trips
24-03-2014, 03:21 PM
Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

It is slightly to blame as for me the faculty is OTT something half the size was still better than a park. But I guess any money saved on a smaller project would still have been wasted by the managers since.

StarMan10
24-03-2014, 03:26 PM
Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

Agree completely. East Mains is one of the only shining light out of the past few years

Pete
24-03-2014, 03:41 PM
Bad workmen blame their tools.

...or something like that.

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 03:46 PM
Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

How many other teams are better than us without our Facilities? eh at last count at least 6.
:na na:


Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

Take a sunday driver and stick them in a rally or F1 car and see how they handle it
:na na:

heretoday
24-03-2014, 03:49 PM
I was on about this recently. E Mains is to us what The Emirates is to Arsenal - an albatross (although a slightly smaller species of albatross).

But really it's the bad management and coaches who haven't had the ability to use the facilities properly and inspire the players that are to blame.

I still have faith that Butcher/Malpas will get things right next season.

Jones28
24-03-2014, 04:01 PM
How many other teams are better than us without our Facilities? eh at last count at least 6.
:na na:

Bad workmen blame their tools :na na:

Take a sunday driver and stick them in a rally or F1 car and see how they handle it
:na na:

Tongue in cheek or just determined to argue? Dinny ken

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 04:10 PM
Tongue in cheek or just determined to argue? Dinny ken

wee bit of both :duck:

But still think EM is a constant in all this intead of the usual Players, Players, Players, Petrie, Petrie, Petrie, Insert Managers name, Insert Managers name, Insert Managers name,:dizzy: run around that I read every day I log in to Hibs.net

Jones28
24-03-2014, 04:14 PM
wee bit of both :duck:

But still think EM is a constant in all this intead of the usual Players, Players, Players, Petrie, Petrie, Petrie, Insert Managers name, Insert Managers name, Insert Managers name,:dizzy: run around that I read every day I log in to Hibs.net

It is a constant yes, but so is the stadium. Is the east stand equally at fault for being too big or something?

Ah I ken, the seats are too green :greengrin

My point is that having better facilities can't be the reason we aren't doing well. I think there is just a lag in terms of quality filtering down into the team.

chrisski33
24-03-2014, 04:22 PM
Having a high quality training facility is NOT the reason we are pish.

How many other teams with our facilities are this bad? None. It's an inherent problem that goes deeper than anything superficial.

It's like saying you're a **** driver because your car is too good. Utter guff.

How come weve gone downhill since it was opened?? U can say what the op said wqs pish but its not. Doesnt matter how posh and s****y the training facility if the team aint performing on the pitch?? Im sure em has a part but isnt the main reason we are underperforming

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 04:32 PM
Ah I ken, the seats are too green :greengrin

.

Now who's being flippant :greengrin

The East stand may have a part to play this, I don't know, I heard a direct quote from Malpas "everything I used to do at Caley, I now have someone to do it for me at Hibs"

Too many cooks :dunno:

cocopops1875
24-03-2014, 04:38 PM
I am only a fan, not a manager/scout/chairman/coach etc, etc...............e.g. I have no expertise in any of the workings of a football team (I wasn't even a player at School level)

The main change I see since Mowbray/Collins is East Mains, :dunno: No idea why :dunno:, could be ER is now alien to us on match day, we train on perfect pitches then try and play on less than perfect pitches, No Team spirit, get them together in a mini bus for a hour a day looking for training facilities, instead of, turn up train leave, as has been stated many, many times players /managers do not just Sign for us then become crap, we all talk about Petrie as a Problem, is he at East Mains, Does he do a Vlad and Fax Butcher the team, he is not the problem, there is a problem, or several that compound on Match day.
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall

Apparently Barcelona train on S**te covered council pitches which explains their quality :rolleyes:

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 04:52 PM
Apparently Barcelona train on S**te covered council pitches which explains their quality :rolleyes:

You can throw all sorts of analogies at me, but there are multiple reasons why Barcelona are better than us, even if they did train "Doon Gypsy Brae" they'd probably still urinate all over us.

It's probably not the actual fault of East Mains per sae, but maybe we're not utilising it properly or by using it the way we do we're missing something else.

eggbamyasi
24-03-2014, 05:20 PM
Imo blaming the quality training facilities is absolutely mental . For me its down to continually changing managers and being a selling club . We like many supporters hound out managers too early and we like many supporters demand instant success . Hopefully we stick by our managment team this time round , give him time and a few seasons to get it going and we will see a difference im sure .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 05:57 PM
You can throw all sorts of analogies at me, but there are multiple reasons why Barcelona are better than us, even if they did train "Doon Gypsy Brae" they'd probably still urinate all over us.

It's probably not the actual fault of East Mains per sae, but maybe we're not utilising it properly or by using it the way we do we're missing something else.

What is it that we do at training that other clubs do differently?

Hibercelona
24-03-2014, 06:04 PM
We may have high quality facilities. But if the coaches aren't up to scratch, then it makes no difference how good the facilities are.

I'd take high quality training coachs over nice looking facilities.

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 06:08 PM
Imo blaming the quality training facilities is absolutely mental . For me its down to continually changing managers and being a selling club . We like many supporters hound out managers too early and we like many supporters demand instant success. Hopefully we stick by our managment team this time round , give him time and a few seasons to get it going and we will see a difference im sure .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

I am with you on all of the above, but surly we should have had a wee bit more success with at least 1 of our managerial appointments.

I am 100% behind Butcher/Malpas and for them to get more time (and money), hopefully they can realise and utilise the full potential of East Mains, we are bigger and better than all other SPFL teams (bar the obvious) in all areas bar the pitch (ultimately where it counts), we just need time to put together the product on the pitch, and keep our fingers crossed that anymore potential (rip up the SPFL) quality players don’t suddenly become “wage thieves” for no apparent reason as soon as we sign them.

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 06:09 PM
We may have high quality facilities. But if the coaches aren't up to scratch, then it makes no difference how good the facilities are.

I'd take high quality training coachs over nice looking facilities.

More scattergun theory's from you.

Which coaches are not up to scratch?

ancient hibee
24-03-2014, 06:10 PM
What's the big mystery?Over the last 7 years players have moved on and been replaced by inferior ones.

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 06:12 PM
What is it that we do at training that other clubs do differently?

Wish I knew, Sometimes I look at games and think they look like they all trained individually and this is the first time they have been together since last Saturday :rolleyes:

Hibercelona
24-03-2014, 06:13 PM
More scattergun theory's from you.

Which coaches are not up to scratch?

The one's that are in charge of ensuring that players know how to do the fudemental basics when it comes to football. Something they've failed at miserably.

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 06:15 PM
Wish I knew, Sometimes I look at games and think they look like they all trained individually and this is the first time they have been together since last Saturday :rolleyes:

Football training is all much of a muchness, especially in the backwater football graveyard that is Scotland. There are no mysterious training methods we are missing out on here, just a lot of poor players struggling to pass a ball between themselves.

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 06:16 PM
The one's that are in charge of ensuring that players know how to do the fudemental basics when it comes to football. Something they've failed at miserably.

So its the coaches fault now, yesterday it was meddling from above. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? :faf:

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 06:18 PM
What's the big mystery?Over the last 7 years players have moved on and been replaced by inferior ones.

not a stato type so can't quote facts and figures off the top of my head, but think I saw on here 60+ players, were they all inferior?

FFS Vine scored at the weekend :confused:

Hibercelona
24-03-2014, 06:21 PM
Football training is all much of a muchness, especially in the backwater football graveyard that is Scotland. There are no mysterious training methods we are missing out on here, just a lot of poor players struggling to pass a ball between themselves.

Poor players don't struggle to pass the ball about between themselves. Even the worst players can make a 5 yard pass to their team mate and look for a little space.

Our problems go beyond players simply being poor. They can't seem to do anything right. Not even the things that you'd expect school bairns to get right.

Hibercelona
24-03-2014, 06:21 PM
So its the coaches fault now, yesterday it was meddling from above. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? :faf:

Are the board not in charge of who the coaches are at the club? :confused:

greenpaper55
24-03-2014, 06:22 PM
So its the coaches fault now, yesterday it was meddling from above. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? :faf:

Meddling from below ! :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 06:23 PM
not a stato type so can't quote facts and figures off the top of my head, but think I saw on here 60+ players, were they all inferior?

FFS Vine scored at the weekend :confused:

Someone earier in the season did a chart on all the clubs in the SPFL and how many players they'd gone through over the last few years, sorry i cant remember how many years it was.

And surprise surprise, we were not top of that list. Its the nature of the beast these days, players sign on for shorter spells, sometimes even 6 months.

PS maybe Vine has found his lever? :wink:

ancient hibee
24-03-2014, 06:23 PM
So its the coaches fault now, yesterday it was meddling from above. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? :faf:

We're all guilty.

cocopops1875
24-03-2014, 06:25 PM
not a stato type so can't quote facts and figures off the top of my head, but think I saw on here 60+ players, were they all inferior?

FFS Vine scored at the weekend :confused:

In the SPFL :confused:

blackpoolhibs
24-03-2014, 06:25 PM
Are the board not in charge of who the coaches are at the club? :confused:

So is it the board who are telling the coaches how to coach, or the coaches who are doing it off their own back? Maybe STF is having more of an input that we currently think, and he's doing a Mad Vlad on the training field?

Do you think he has enough toner? :confused:

ancient hibee
24-03-2014, 06:28 PM
So is it the board who are telling the coaches how to coach, or the coaches who are doing it off their own back? Maybe STF is having more of an input that we currently think, and he's doing a Mad Vlad on the training field?

Do you think he has enough toner? :confused:

I know for a FACT that STF is in charge of training.They've covered tyre fitting and are moving on to battery charging-highly appropriate for East Mains.

greenpaper55
24-03-2014, 06:29 PM
We're all guilty.

Oh no i'm not, if only i could meddle then you'd see a team !:greengrin

Scouse Hibee
24-03-2014, 06:38 PM
East Mains/East Stand/The Manager/The Board/The Players........................................... what next?

Kato
24-03-2014, 06:48 PM
The one's that are in charge of ensuring that players know how to do the fudemental basics when it comes to football. Something they've failed at miserably.


Good lord.

Northern Hibby
24-03-2014, 07:25 PM
I think we all have different theories as to what's wrong and we're scrambling around looking for reasons or in some cases blame, I just don't happen to think that players/managers become crap as soon as pen is put to paper or Petrie has some mysterious influence over all things football at EM/ER, maybe it's as simple as EM has no soul and is just a generic sports training facility,

silverhibee
24-03-2014, 07:39 PM
East Mains/East Stand/The Manager/The Board/The Players........................................... what next?

Tam McCourt. :dunno:

Eyrie
24-03-2014, 08:34 PM
East Mains/East Stand/The Manager/The Board/The Players........................................... what next?


Tam McCourt. :dunno:

And then it'll be the fans.

Jones28
25-03-2014, 12:29 AM
How come weve gone downhill since it was opened?? U can say what the op said wqs pish but its not. Doesnt matter how posh and s****y the training facility if the team aint performing on the pitch?? Im sure em has a part but isnt the main reason we are underperforming

It is pish. How on earth can better facilities mean worse performance? I don't buy that argument at all. As Northern Hibee has said it may well be a case of too many cooks. An over complicated structure of coaches and assistant coaches etc.

Jones28
25-03-2014, 12:29 AM
East Mains/East Stand/The Manager/The Board/The Players........................................... what next?

You're next Scouse


:greengrin

Jones28
25-03-2014, 12:31 AM
Are the board not in charge of who the coaches are at the club? :confused:

The management team surely?

Hibercelona
25-03-2014, 03:01 AM
The management team surely?

I don't think the management team do pick the coaches. In fact. I don't think the coaching team has really changed over the last several managers.

If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?

It's not like every player that comes to Hibs, just happens to be crap on arrival. They actually get progressively worse.

easty
25-03-2014, 08:23 AM
If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?
.

You can lead a horse to water.

Jones28
25-03-2014, 08:25 AM
I don't think the management team do pick the coaches. In fact. I don't think the coaching team has really changed over the last several managers.

If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?

It's not like every player that comes to Hibs, just happens to be crap on arrival. They actually get progressively worse.

How could a training centre possibly be at fault? Just explain that.

blackpoolhibs
25-03-2014, 08:36 AM
I don't think the management team do pick the coaches. In fact. I don't think the coaching team has really changed over the last several managers.

If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?

It's not like every player that comes to Hibs, just happens to be crap on arrival. They actually get progressively worse.

Tell me you are only 5.

Kato
25-03-2014, 09:17 AM
I don't think the management team do pick the coaches. In fact. I don't think the coaching team has really changed over the last several managers.

If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?

It's not like every player that comes to Hibs, just happens to be crap on arrival. They actually get progressively worse.

Do you ever sit back and think, "maybe I don't have a scooby-doo about football". ?

Twa Cairpets
25-03-2014, 09:24 AM
East Mains
Correlation does not equal causation.
End of.

greenpaper55
25-03-2014, 09:28 AM
You can lead a horse to water.
But a pencil must be lead :greengrin

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 09:33 AM
The problem for me is simple it happens on day 1 of the managers appointment well the last 2 for sure, it is they are not the right candidates for the job. I think from day 2 onwards I cannot really fault Petrie/whoever as they seem to back the manager to a degree that Hibs should be looking at 2nd/3rd for a finish.

It is just simply we have hired a few managers that have failed to deliver and this 1 major decision is the problem that faces Hibs, not EM not anything else other than a massive failing on manager choice. It is a decision that has cost us dearly and for me all the people involved have now proved that they can back a manager but cannot pick one. There is no point in backing the wrong man so IMO as this is a key factor in how the club operates all who have been involved with this process over past few years should be removed from position.

Kato
25-03-2014, 09:34 AM
East Mains
Correlation does not equal causation.
End of.

"There are such things as Unidentified Flying Objects, right? So the only answer to what they are must be they are from another planet."

Spike Mandela
25-03-2014, 09:55 AM
My theory is that we had a good team that we sold off for a variety of riches in a short period of time. We chose to build the training facilities and the stand.

If this money had been used to increase the standard of player signed by either gradual wage improvements or by transfer fees we may have maintained a quality team for longer or any perceived decline would have been more gradual. (No guarantees of course but using the logic that bigger wages, bigger fees you are shopping in a better quality store)

As it was ,the money went in to infrastructure, and as a result the players we signed to try and replace a quality team were of a cheaper lower standard. Then through a series of poor signings, poor managers, poor coaching, poor results and hence poor team confidence/morale the standard has been diluted even more until we arrive at where we are now.

easty
25-03-2014, 09:58 AM
If this money had been used to increase the standard of player signed by either gradual wage improvements or by transfer fees we may have maintained a quality team for longer or any perceived decline would have been more gradual. (No guarantees of course but using the logic that bigger wages, bigger fees you are shopping in a better quality store)


It should make sense, but we're already working with a more expensive standard of player than a number of teams who are doing better than us.

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 10:03 AM
My theory is that we had a good team that we sold off for a variety of riches in a short period of time. We chose to build the training facilities and the stand.

If this money had been used to increase the standard of player signed by either gradual wage improvements or by transfer fees we may have maintained a quality team for longer or any perceived decline would have been more gradual. (No guarantees of course but using the logic that bigger wages, bigger fees you are shopping in a better quality store)

As it was ,the money went in to infrastructure, and as a result the players we signed to try and replace a quality team were of a cheaper lower standard. Then through a series of poor signings, poor managers, poor coaching, poor results and hence poor team confidence/morale the standard has been diluted even more until we arrive at where we are now.

I agree with a lot of that, I guess the problem I have with EM is it was for me so much more than what is needed so some money could and should have been saved with that. Even with that though we still appeared to have the means to be doing a whole lot better.

Northern Hibby
25-03-2014, 10:08 AM
You can lead a horse to water.

waterboarding

:wink:

Green&White
25-03-2014, 10:15 AM
For me its an attitude thing. mediocre players are turning up every day to this state of the art wonderful training facility and thinking they are big time charlie world beaters.

we all know for years now the players have had a attitude problem in terms of the effort they put in (cup finals come to mind).

to me EM has created this culture of 'we have better stuff than you so we automatically are better' thus creating a lesser work ethic and poorer attitude for playing for a team like hibs.:dunno:

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 10:25 AM
For me its an attitude thing. mediocre players are turning up every day to this state of the art wonderful training facility and thinking they are big time charlie world beaters.

we all know for years now the players have had a attitude problem in terms of the effort they put in (cup finals come to mind).

to me EM has created this culture of 'we have better stuff than you so we automatically are better' thus creating a lesser work ethic and poorer attitude for playing for a team like hibs.:dunno:

I cant really agree with that GW, every person is different and I cannot accept we managed to sign lots of players with the attitude you described I think it was and is far easier to sign and we did get 5/6 players signed by different managers whom regardless of EM or anything else were not good enough and the manager failed to improve them with the manager employing tactics that maybe didnt suit the squad or situations during match.

We finished 10th,11th and 7th last 3 seasons simply due to us having several players in a team on matchday that were not good enough, players not played in right places and questionable in match tactics as well as setting out the match in the wrong manner from start, none of this was due to EM it was due to bad management of the resources.

The managers whom put out these teams have either been sacked or resigned, the people whom put them in place should also now be gone.

Northern Hibby
25-03-2014, 10:26 AM
How could a training centre possibly be at fault? Just explain that.

You're simplifying the issue, it's not the actual fault of the training centre, but maybe with the shiny new facility we have lost something team bonding, camaraderie, togetherness or work ethic.

It's Easy the play nice passing football on a perfect pitch (real or Fake), in a cosy environment, but that doesn't seem to be transferred to a Saturday, Butcher himself has said "he didn't do that in Training" or something along those lines

We don't look fitter or better prepared than other teams who don't have out training centre, explain that?

truehibernian
25-03-2014, 10:30 AM
My theory is that we had a good team that we sold off for a variety of riches in a short period of time. We chose to build the training facilities and the stand.

If this money had been used to increase the standard of player signed by either gradual wage improvements or by transfer fees we may have maintained a quality team for longer or any perceived decline would have been more gradual. (No guarantees of course but using the logic that bigger wages, bigger fees you are shopping in a better quality store)

As it was ,the money went in to infrastructure, and as a result the players we signed to try and replace a quality team were of a cheaper lower standard. Then through a series of poor signings, poor managers, poor coaching, poor results and hence poor team confidence/morale the standard has been diluted even more until we arrive at where we are now.

There lies the rub mate - Hibs went a business/infrastructure route, no doubt as they saw what was ahead financially and also to ensure that in the next couple of decades the club was ahead of the rest when it came to any investment needed 'out the blue' (Taylor Report for example). You can't fault the outcome because we now have a superb stadium and (sorry.....I know it's now a cliche) a superb 'first class' training centre/academy.

What Hibs did however was not invest a fair and significant proportion of the transfer income into the squad/team - hence managers like Collins and definitely Mixu, became frustrated and left. I'd have loved Hibs to continue going down the Mowbray method of cherry picking good youth/early 20's players from down south, keen to make an impact and the use Hibs to springboard them to the next level. A bit like Crewe down south - mind some fans would still be unhappy as that brings with it a beautiful inconsistency of great football but sometimes glorious defeats amongst the wins....defeats in style often don't go down well up here.

The training centre is superb and glad we have got it. Our recent malaise is down to poor management choices, then subsequent poor signings (overall, not absolute). The two men at the top have however went through the last 7 years totally unscathed and seem above critcism, and I mean very real criticism from all quarters. For me it is about time Rod stood aside, but more importantly Sir Tom steps forward and uses all his aquired business experience and acumen, and leads the club forward, shows us all where we are heading, and plots a revival into the next 10 years. It's much much needed for a stale stale club.

Either that or he comes forward with his plan for the future without him - if that is what the desire is. Naturally because of across the road, and The Rangers, 'Well and Dunfermline, folk will rightly say 'careful what you wish for'. But change at the top will bring with it optimism as well as trepidation.

FranckSuzy
25-03-2014, 10:35 AM
The one's that are in charge of ensuring that players know how to do the fudemental basics when it comes to football. Something they've failed at miserably.

Fudemental :tee hee:

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 10:38 AM
Poor players don't struggle to pass the ball about between themselves. Even the worst players can make a 5 yard pass to their team mate and look for a little space.

Our problems go beyond players simply being poor. They can't seem to do anything right. Not even the things that you'd expect school bairns to get right.

How would you know anything, are you down at EM watching the poor coaches train the poor players or even when was the last time you seen Hibs play to make a judgement on how bad they are, getting text updates and listening to the radio don't count.

Honestly, you and a few others on here are the ones acting like silly we bairns.

The_Horde
25-03-2014, 10:44 AM
My theory is that we had a good team that we sold off for a variety of riches in a short period of time. We chose to build the training facilities and the stand.

If this money had been used to increase the standard of player signed by either gradual wage improvements or by transfer fees we may have maintained a quality team for longer or any perceived decline would have been more gradual. (No guarantees of course but using the logic that bigger wages, bigger fees you are shopping in a better quality store)

As it was ,the money went in to infrastructure, and as a result the players we signed to try and replace a quality team were of a cheaper lower standard. Then through a series of poor signings, poor managers, poor coaching, poor results and hence poor team confidence/morale the standard has been diluted even more until we arrive at where we are now.

Yes.

We could've used some of the money to bring in players of similar standard or good experienced players and within a couple more seasons of being up and around the top 3 and challenging in cups we'd have made that money back no problem and still been able to build the stand.

Instead we chose to build the stand and penny pinch everywhere else and it's probably cost us more in gate money, league placings, cup runs, paying off managers/players and panic buys.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 10:46 AM
I don't think the management team do pick the coaches. In fact. I don't think the coaching team has really changed over the last several managers.

If the facilities are as great as people harp on about, then why do players that come to Hibs seem to get progressively worse over time?

It's not like every player that comes to Hibs, just happens to be crap on arrival. They actually get progressively worse.

Please, name some of the players you are talking about.

easty
25-03-2014, 10:46 AM
;3942202']Yes.

We could've used some of the money to bring in players of similar standard or good experienced players and within a couple more seasons of being up and around the top 3 and challenging in cups we'd have made that money back no problem and still been able to build the stand.

Instead we chose to build the stand and penny pinch everywhere else and it's probably cost us more in gate money, league placings, cup runs, paying off managers/players and panic buys.

No we didnae. We still had a competitive playing budget that was greater than the majority of our league rivals.

truehibernian
25-03-2014, 10:53 AM
How would you know anything, are you down at EM watching the poor coaches train the poor players or even when was the last time you seen Hibs play to make a judgement on how bad they are, getting text updates and listening to the radio don't count.

Honestly, you and a few others on here are the ones acting like silly we bairns.

I was up at Riccarton two weeks ago SH and even with my green tinted spectacles, as a pro footballer, you'd jump at the chance of having East Mains as a training environment, rather than out there. It puts other centres in the shade......and we don't share or co-own with Uni's or colleges either.

I've even heard folk moan about the distance it is away from Edinburgh......Sunderland's centre is about 6 miles or so out of Sooonderland (lovely centre too), even Man Utd's is about 20 miles from Manchester. You'd think Ormiston was on the moon..............wait a minute.......:greengrin:na na:

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 11:06 AM
You're simplifying the issue, it's not the actual fault of the training centre, but maybe with the shiny new facility we have lost something team bonding, camaraderie, togetherness or work ethic.

It's Easy the play nice passing football on a perfect pitch (real or Fake), in a cosy environment, but that doesn't seem to be transferred to a Saturday, Butcher himself has said "he didn't do that in Training" or something along those lines

We don't look fitter or better prepared than other teams who don't have out training centre, explain that?

And yet the man who does the training MM said the players are fit and only a few weeks ago TB said they would be working harder to get more from the players, i don't believe for one single minute that a Pro footballer is unfit from training at good facilities or council pitches, they will still be fit no matter where they train.

Just out of curiosity have you been to EM,? the bit in bold, try popping out there in the winter or just bad weather, it's far from being cosy.

greenpaper55
25-03-2014, 11:06 AM
I was up at Riccarton two weeks ago SH and even with my green tinted spectacles, as a pro footballer, you'd jump at the chance of having East Mains as a training environment, rather than out there. It puts other centres in the shade......and we don't share or co-own with Uni's or colleges either.

I've even heard folk moan about the distance it is away from Edinburgh......Sunderland's centre is about 6 miles or so out of Sooonderland (lovely centre too), even Man Utd's is about 20 miles from Manchester. You'd think Ormiston was on the moon..............wait a minute.......:greengrin:na na:

It was me! well one of them anyway, my point is that EM has no connection with the local community in Edinburgh, as far as i know Hibs use it and nobody else which seems a total waste of a resource that could have been making money for Hibs by hiring out all weather facilities for example. Imagine if your kids games were played where the players trained ?, another point i made was why did we need 50 odd acre of land which cost how much ?, to much was spent on this and not enough on players when Collins was in charge.

truehibernian
25-03-2014, 11:17 AM
It was me! well one of them anyway, my point is that EM has no connection with the local community in Edinburgh, as far as i know Hibs use it and nobody else which seems a total waste of a resource that could have been making money for Hibs by hiring out all weather facilities for example. Imagine if your kids games were played where the players trained ?, another point i made was why did we need 50 odd acre of land which cost how much ?, to much was spent on this and not enough on players when Collins was in charge.

I think Willie Kirk is your man if you seek those answers. However kids can use East Mains as part of the holiday training camps they advertise, and I'm sure Hibs have signed up for an adults 'fives' thing that Mars sponsor.....I'll check but I'm sure it is being held at East Mains and will be a league (anyone correct me ?).

Players become part of the community by winning games, getting in the spotlight, giving positive feedback in the press - the fact the centre is in East Lothian doesn't detach the players/club from the community......has Carrington (over the years :greengrin) affected Man Utd's performance or detached it from the community......even though a vast part of the fanbase is overseas right enough.

If you worked for Standard Life would you rather go to work in a shed or a modern open plan office ? The working environment should itself strive for excellence and be of good quality. The players (or employees) should aspire to be as good as the surroundings. Simple as that.

For most in the squad, they will not get anywhere better to play in their whole careers.

Northern Hibby
25-03-2014, 11:18 AM
And yet the man who does the training MM said the players are fit and only a few weeks ago TB said they would be working harder to get more from the players, i don't believe for one single minute that a Pro footballer is unfit from training at good facilities or council pitches, they will still be fit no matter where they train.

Just out of curiosity have you been to EM,? the bit in bold, try popping out there in the winter or just bad weather, it's far from being cosy.

ok replace cosy with safe or comfertable

Speedway
25-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Ok, so the questions here from the OP are concerning whether smashing facilities and crap coaches equal a crap team? The answer is no.

If the question was: Does a player with low/no motivation fail to execute with verve, vigour and a high level of attention to detail his professional responsibilities for which he is paid a wage under a contractual obligation contribute negatively to a team performance? The answer is yes.

If the question was: Does having many players with that general state of mind described above whom whilst paying lip service in the press and at their club to trying hard to play well, actually can't be arsed and are pathetically complacent and lethargic AND lacking all fundamental elements of a winning mentality? The answer would be yes.

If the question was: Is the above one of the main contributory factors for why we can't play association football with any realistic chance of scoring more allowable goals than whoever the opposition is? The answer is yes.

If the question was: Is everything Rod Petrie's fault? The answer is no.

If the question was: Are some things Rod Petrie's fault? The answer is yes.

If the question was: Is Terry Butcher making us worse? The answer is yes.

If the question was: Will Terry Butcher make us better over time? The question contains a futuristic preposition steeped in uncertainty to a level where there can be no definitive response and therefore the answer is 'Dunno'.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 11:58 AM
I was up at Riccarton two weeks ago SH and even with my green tinted spectacles, as a pro footballer, you'd jump at the chance of having East Mains as a training environment, rather than out there. It puts other centres in the shade......and we don't share or co-own with Uni's or colleges either.

I've even heard folk moan about the distance it is away from Edinburgh......Sunderland's centre is about 6 miles or so out of Sooonderland (lovely centre too), even Man Utd's is about 20 miles from Manchester. You'd think Ormiston was on the moon..............wait a minute.......:greengrin:na na:


I have said it a few times before bud, we have the 2nd best training facilities for a football club in Scotland and we own ours, only Murray Park is better, Lennoxtown is nice but i am pretty sure if celtc had the chance they would move there TC away from there, in the winter or bad rain and the place gets flooded and Lennon has been very critical of it over the years blaming it for injuries that players have picked while training there, like you mate i have seen a few TC around the UK and we should be very happy with what we have, even though it's on the moon :greengrin, the only thing that lets EM down is a full size indoor pitch, but we can live without that i suppose.

Everything is now in place for the club to kick on in the summer, we have it all apart from the main ingredient, a good product on the pitch, STF and RP have done a great job getting it all in place, new stadium and training centre, this has to be the summer that they take it to the final step and back the the management team that they paid a lot of money too ICT for to get them to Hibs, the fans once again will do there bit and back the club but the club need to find some more cash on top of STs to give to TB to kick us on this summer and get quality players in the summer and be in and signed up and ready to go on the first day of pre-season.

As soon as we become safe from the play-off's then TB should make it quite clear on who is leaving the club in the summer or tell the ones with contracts who he doesn't want to keep(sure there will be a few) to tell there agents to find new clubs for them, if TB is still scurrying about come August trying to get 5th or 6th choices in then you no how things will pan out for us again.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 12:15 PM
It was me! well one of them anyway, my point is that EM has no connection with the local community in Edinburgh, as far as i know Hibs use it and nobody else which seems a total waste of a resource that could have been making money for Hibs by hiring out all weather facilities for example. Imagine if your kids games were played where the players trained ?, another point i made was why did we need 50 odd acre of land which cost how much ?, to much was spent on this and not enough on players when Collins was in charge.

It gets used through the week at nights for the youth teams, i know there is no connection from the Hibs community in Edinburgh to the Ormoonstin training centre, but that can be said about most clubs in Scotland, Killie train at Strathclyde, it shouldn't be a big deal nowadays, players get paid good money and should be able to get to wherever they train about.

It cost £5m to buy/build, roughly it costs £500k to maintain each year, the only thing i could say is that it needs to start delivering players through the youth ranks so that they make the grade and are then sold on to start paying for EM, hopefully we are starting to see one or two coming through and making it to the 1st team and then move on for a good fee, that's how it will go.

Did the club not buy extra land at EM, anyone know why and what was the reason for buying the extra land and how much it cost. ?

truehibernian
25-03-2014, 12:19 PM
I have said it a few times before bud, we have the 2nd best training facilities for a football club in Scotland and we own ours, only Murray Park is better, Lennoxtown is nice but i am pretty sure if celtc had the chance they would move there TC away from there, in the winter or bad rain and the place gets flooded and Lennon has been very critical of it over the years blaming it for injuries that players have picked while training there, like you mate i have seen a few TC around the UK and we should be very happy with what we have, even though it's on the moon :greengrin, the only thing that lets EM down is a full size indoor pitch, but we can live without that i suppose.

Everything is now in place for the club to kick on in the summer, we have it all apart from the main ingredient, a good product on the pitch, STF and RP have done a great job getting it all in place, new stadium and training centre, this has to be the summer that they take it to the final step and back the the management team that they paid a lot of money too ICT for to get them to Hibs, the fans once again will do there bit and back the club but the club need to find some more cash on top of STs to give to TB to kick us on this summer and get quality players in the summer and be in and signed up and ready to go on the first day of pre-season.

As soon as we become safe from the play-off's then TB should make it quite clear on who is leaving the club in the summer or tell the ones with contracts who he doesn't want to keep(sure there will be a few) to tell there agents to find new clubs for them, if TB is still scurrying about come August trying to get 5th or 6th choices in then you no how things will pan out for us again.

Some of the Academy kids have to make their way to Livingston and Perth - it's a sacrifice you have to make (as player and parent) if you want to succeed in football. What worries me SH is something a coach said to me a couple of months back.....something he said should be a requirement, not an afterthought.

He said that once players at Hibs made the step up from youth to full side, in his opinion, the training they got reduced in real terms - his point was that it's in the early years of your career that the work should be put in.

He advised that what Hibs should be doing is getting players like Ross, Alex, Danny, Jason, etc to work with the first team - but then come back for other sessions so they perfect certain skills, techniques, build stamina. He reckoned that players 'got off lightly' once stepping up.

As I say it was his observation - but he's high up in SFA coaching circles so you'd like to think he was talking about it with some authority and considerable coaching experience.

Haymaker
25-03-2014, 01:10 PM
He said that once players at Hibs made the step up from youth to full side, in his opinion, the training they got reduced in real terms - his point was that it's in the early years of your career that the work should be put in.

He advised that what Hibs should be doing is getting players like Ross, Alex, Danny, Jason, etc to work with the first team - but then come back for other sessions so they perfect certain skills, techniques, build stamina. He reckoned that players 'got off lightly' once stepping up.



That coach is correct. Most young players at top sides are brought in to the 1st team for tactical work if they are likely to get a game but sent back to the U-19s/Development squads to continue to work on the above - mainly to increase the amount of hours of training (10,000 hour rule) and because young players are still physically developing/strengthening muscle/bone etc (until roughly the age of 21). As a fully grown adult, 23+, your training should be different to an 18 year old and different again to those 30+.

Allowing the young players to do the same as the older players is the reason there are a lot of "Bright sparks" of players then they disappear early in their career or suffer recurring injuries to the knee/hip/ankle in their later careers. According to the opinion of some anyway.

Mikey
25-03-2014, 01:14 PM
How would you know anything, are you down at EM watching the poor coaches train the poor players or even when was the last time you seen Hibs play to make a judgement on how bad they are, getting text updates and listening to the radio don't count.

Honestly, you and a few others on here are the ones acting like silly we bairns.

He really could do with getting a burd.

Alternatively, we could chip in and get him a subscription to bigtits.com, that might keep him occupied elsewhere for a wee while.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 01:20 PM
ok replace cosy with safe or comfertable

Now you are just being silly, it's a training centre, players got to be in for 9.30 maybe have a bit toast and do a bit bonding, (you want them to do that on a mini bus while heading to a council pitch :rolleyes:) until 10.30 then it it is out to do the training for them, lunchtime and they come in for something to eat, a little rest and then a bit time in the gym to work on upper body strength, then maybe go over videos of the team you are playing next, then if the players decide they can go back out to the training pitch to work on things that they might think need working on, it ain't a f***ing holiday camp where they are safe(what the f*** does safe mean :confused:) or comfortable, the players work hard in a nice enviroment at EM, but you would rather have them driving about in mini buses and training on council pitches covered in dogs dirt bits of broken glass and a few bams down Gypsy Brae giving the players pelters, give it a break eh.

Hibercelona
25-03-2014, 01:22 PM
How would you know anything, are you down at EM watching the poor coaches train the poor players or even when was the last time you seen Hibs play to make a judgement on how bad they are, getting text updates and listening to the radio don't count.

Honestly, you and a few others on here are the ones acting like silly we bairns.

I don't really care how good/bad the players look at EM. It's how it transends onto the field on match day that i'm bothered about.

And based on what i've seen. These players don't appear to have the slightest clue in what they're doing, not even the slightest.

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 01:29 PM
It seems like there are lots of theories on our problems and I cannot see anything to suggest EM is an issue. Basics are you get in one manager who wastes money on crap he goes you get in 2nd who has a bit less to spend than he might of as we had to pay last guy off and some of his players, unfortunatly new guy isnt very good either so now we are losing more money in his removal and dealing with his crap players, onto next manager.

We have one issue that is manager recruitment. One mistake has led to others that has snowballed to a 10th,11th and 7th finish with this season looking like another low finish. Each and every manager over last 3yrs is responsible for our SPL position today all of them. These managers have now all gone so it was time awhile back for all concerned to move on from club that is anyone involved in recruiting managers has failed bigtime. A manager can make 2/3 bad signings and get away with it you cannot get away with signing a bad manager.

The players and tactics deployed are the reason we are in the position we are. EM or any training place will not make a free transfer from Bognor Regis any better, the people training them will.

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 01:41 PM
I don't really care how good/bad the players look at EM. It's how it transends onto the field on match day that i'm bothered about.

And based on what i've seen. These players don't appear to have the slightest clue in what they're doing, not even the slightest.

Most of the players we have signed in last 3/4 years if I may be so bold to generalise but I do not think anyone on here bar a few depending on location had seen them play a lot if at all. So therefore I do not know if after playing for us a few weeks they were ground down to being piss poor due to EM etc. I can go on the players I had seen before we signed them not a lot but I had seen 4/5 of the players we bought on a good number of occasions and for me played as well as I expected and in some (LG) better. 1 or 2 were as bad as I had seen previously. EM or supposed attitudes are not an issue for me, utter dross in key positions is.

Hibercelona
25-03-2014, 02:08 PM
Most of the players we have signed in last 3/4 years if I may be so bold to generalise but I do not think anyone on here bar a few depending on location had seen them play a lot if at all. So therefore I do not know if after playing for us a few weeks they were ground down to being piss poor due to EM etc. I can go on the players I had seen before we signed them not a lot but I had seen 4/5 of the players we bought on a good number of occasions and for me played as well as I expected and in some (LG) better. 1 or 2 were as bad as I had seen previously. EM or supposed attitudes are not an issue for me, utter dross in key positions is.

I hope you're right and that it is just a simple case of replacing some players in key positions. But I just can't see it myself. We've had so many oppurtunities over the years to get it right and it's just not happening.

You would at the very least expect every player to remember 2 important fundamentals of the game. "Pass" and "Move". It's something that every player should be capable of, despite a lack of ability.

But it's something we've been failing at for so long now. It's hard to believe that we've simply signed players over these years that don't get the basic principles of the game.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 02:11 PM
I don't really care how good/bad the players look at EM. It's how it transends onto the field on match day that i'm bothered about.

And based on what i've seen. These players don't appear to have the slightest clue in what they're doing, not even the slightest.

When was the last time you seen them, and i don't mean watching highlights, the whole 90 minutes in the flesh, you had so much to say about the performance on Saturday and yet you weren't even at the game, so you now don't care what happens at EM the main thing for you is on match day, but you don't go on match day. :rolleyes:

Bit in bold, does that go for Hanlon and Stevenson.?

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 02:26 PM
I hope you're right and that it is just a simple case of replacing some players in key positions. But I just can't see it myself. We've had so many oppurtunities over the years to get it right and it's just not happening.

You would at the very least expect every player to remember 2 important fundamentals of the game. "Pass" and "Move". It's something that every player should be capable of, despite a lack of ability.

But it's something we've been failing at for so long now. It's hard to believe that we've simply signed players over these years that don't get the basic principles of the game.

That is actually far easier to believe than we make decent players unable to pass or play after being here a while. Unfortunatly some of our signings just were not upto the mark and we have suffered for it. As for it being that simple? It is only that simple if the manager in place has the ability and for me that has simply been unproven as yet.

eggbamyasi
25-03-2014, 02:31 PM
Tell me you are only 5.

Hahahaha

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

eggbamyasi
25-03-2014, 02:43 PM
I honestly cant beleive that some people on here think our amazing training facilities are the problem with the team !!! It is just mental lol absolutely off your head crazy . There are many reasons why we are **** but that is 100% not it .also the management 100 % choose the coaches they want to get and or keep from previous regimes . Theres no way a new manager gets told by board heres your training facilities and you can not change the coaches . MM runs training , tells the coaches they brought in what to do his philosophy etc and also tells any coaches already there what to do if they dont do it they get changed or they follow the new plan . IMO MM and TB can choose to sack or hire any part of the managment team they want .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Northern Hibby
25-03-2014, 02:49 PM
Now you are just being silly, it's a training centre, players got to be in for 9.30 maybe have a bit toast and do a bit bonding, (you want them to do that on a mini bus while heading to a council pitch :rolleyes:) until 10.30 then it it is out to do the training for them, lunchtime and they come in for something to eat, a little rest and then a bit time in the gym to work on upper body strength, then maybe go over videos of the team you are playing next, then if the players decide they can go back out to the training pitch to work on things that they might think need working on, it ain't a f***ing holiday camp where they are safe(what the f*** does safe mean :confused:) or comfortable, the players work hard in a nice enviroment at EM, but you would rather have them driving about in mini buses and training on council pitches covered in dogs dirt bits of broken glass and a few bams down Gypsy Brae giving the players pelters, give it a break eh.

safe [seyf]

adjective, saf·er, saf·est.
1. secure from liability to harm, injury, danger, or risk: a safe place.
2. free from hurt, injury, danger, or risk: to arrive safe and sound.
3. involving little or no risk of mishap, error, etc.: a safe estimate.
4. dependable or trustworthy: a safe guide.
5. careful to avoid danger or controversy: a safe player; a safe play.

Hibercelona
25-03-2014, 03:18 PM
When was the last time you seen them, and i don't mean watching highlights, the whole 90 minutes in the flesh, you had so much to say about the performance on Saturday and yet you weren't even at the game, so you now don't care what happens at EM the main thing for you is on match day, but you don't go on match day. :rolleyes:

Bit in bold, does that go for Hanlon and Stevenson.?

Do you disagree with my assessment that we don't get the basics right?

If you don't, then what difference does it make to you whether i'm there or not?

If you do disagree. Then please tell me what you think we're getting right on match day.

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 03:27 PM
safe [seyf]

adjective, saf·er, saf·est.
1. secure from liability to harm, injury, danger, or risk: a safe place.
2. free from hurt, injury, danger, or risk: to arrive safe and sound.
3. involving little or no risk of mishap, error, etc.: a safe estimate.
4. dependable or trustworthy: a safe guide.
5. careful to avoid danger or controversy: a safe player; a safe play.

Yep all of that, they would be safe at EM, but you think it's better if they head down to Pilton on a mini bus to train so they can bond better. :faf:

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 03:33 PM
Do you disagree with my assessment that we don't get the basics right?

If you don't, then what difference does it make to you whether i'm there or not?

If you do disagree. Then please tell me what you think we're getting right on match day.

I know what we are getting right and i know what we are getting wrong, i see it with my own eyes when i'm there on matchday, how are you getting your insight if you never go and watch games but have plenty to say about the match events that you don't watch.

Jones28
25-03-2014, 03:53 PM
You're simplifying the issue, it's not the actual fault of the training centre, but maybe with the shiny new facility we have lost something team bonding, camaraderie, togetherness or work ethic.

It's Easy the play nice passing football on a perfect pitch (real or Fake), in a cosy environment, but that doesn't seem to be transferred to a Saturday, Butcher himself has said "he didn't do that in Training" or something along those lines

We don't look fitter or better prepared than other teams who don't have out training centre, explain that?

***** attitude. Simples. Spoilt by the facilities maybe? That's the only way the training centre could possibly have a part to play, and even then it's more of an attitude thing.

We were pish for long spells when we didn't have a training centre too you know.

blackpoolhibs
25-03-2014, 04:05 PM
Do you disagree with my assessment that we don't get the basics right?

If you don't, then what difference does it make to you whether i'm there or not?

If you do disagree. Then please tell me what you think we're getting right on match day.

We obviously dont play better than the teams we play most weeks, but once again you don't answer any questions that fire right through your amazing statements, statements that are all over the place blaming everything from meddling from above, meddling from below, the training centre and now the coaches.

So i will type this very slowly for you, AND ONCE AGAIN, can you tell me what type of training or coaching we do differently to the rest of the teams in the SPFL?

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 04:22 PM
We obviously dont play better than the teams we play most weeks, but once again you don't answer any questions that fire right through your amazing statements, statements that are all over the place blaming everything from meddling from above, meddling from below, the training centre and now the coaches.

So i will type this very slowly for you, AND ONCE AGAIN, can you tell me what type of training or coaching we do differently to the rest of the teams in the SPFL?

He has had a change of mind about EM, he doesn't care what happens there anymore.

blackpoolhibs
25-03-2014, 04:44 PM
He has had a change of mind about EM, he doesn't care what happens there anymore.

He's probably been called in for his tea, and told to go wash his hands. He might answer later. :wink:

silverhibee
25-03-2014, 05:11 PM
He's probably been called in for his tea, and told to go wash his hands. He might answer later. :wink:


After he has done his homework and tidy his room.


:hilarious

Twa Cairpets
25-03-2014, 05:22 PM
ok replace cosy with safe or comfertable

Do you really believe the best way to stand a chance of getting the best out of professional athletes is put them in an unsafe, uncomfortable environment? Yeh, that'll work... :rolleyes:

Northern Hibby
25-03-2014, 05:41 PM
Do you really believe the best way to stand a chance of getting the best out of professional athletes is put them in an unsafe, uncomfortable environment? Yeh, that'll work... :rolleyes:

It’s an adjective :rolleyes:

Captain Trips
25-03-2014, 05:50 PM
We would get the most out our players if the manager was good enough to get it, and secondly I fear if we got the best out of most of our squad of late it was simply not even close to good enough.

hibbyhabit
25-03-2014, 05:54 PM
It’s an adjective :rolleyes:


What does our training centre have different to the rest of them in Scotland?

Peevemor
25-03-2014, 06:43 PM
What does our training centre have different to the rest of them in Scotland?

I don't think ours has any goals.

Scouse Hibee
25-03-2014, 09:20 PM
You're simplifying the issue, it's not the actual fault of the training centre, but maybe with the shiny new facility we have lost something team bonding, camaraderie, togetherness or work ethic.

It's Easy the play nice passing football on a perfect pitch (real or Fake), in a cosy environment, but that doesn't seem to be transferred to a Saturday, Butcher himself has said "he didn't do that in Training" or something along those lines

We don't look fitter or better prepared than other teams who don't have out training centre, explain that?

How have we lost team bonding, camaraderie, togetherness and work ethic at a training centre where the players are errrrrrrrrrrrr together.

blackpoolhibs
25-03-2014, 09:22 PM
I don't think ours has any goals.



:greengrin

SunshineOnLeith
25-03-2014, 10:36 PM
I agree entirely with the sensible, well constructed and unfailingly coherent logic that says having good training facilities makes us bad at football.

Leithenhibby
25-03-2014, 11:32 PM
I've got to say that having gone down to EM this afternoon to watch the U20's play The Huns, I was well impressed with the set up.

It was my first visit and it's got to be said that it a cracking facility to nurture young footballers.. :agree:

Ronniekirk
25-03-2014, 11:41 PM
I've got to say that having gone down to EM this afternoon to watch the U20's play The Huns, I was well impressed with the set up.

It was my first visit and it's got to be said that it a cracking facility to nurture young footballers.. :agree:

Not sure Terry is into Nurture he seems to be have quickly lost Patience needed for that ApproachBut maybe the guys in charge of the youth set up have this hence why the Young Teams are doing well and sitting at top end of their leagues .Even the woman's Team does better than the First Team Could we not play some of them .

monktonharp
25-03-2014, 11:44 PM
I was on about this recently. E Mains is to us what The Emirates is to Arsenal - an albatross (although a slightly smaller species of albatross).

But really it's the bad management and coaches who haven't had the ability to use the facilities properly and inspire the players that are to blame.

I still have faith that Butcher/Malpas will get things right next season.East Mains is a holiday camp imho. we'd get better results from a concentration camp. awrite, there might be a few bumps on the pitch(es) due to mineworks or tunnels, but I'm sure it is all to easy for some doon there. I said this years ago, having witnessed some of them swanning about, during Mixu's days.:cb

Hibernia Na Eir
26-03-2014, 01:42 PM
East Mains is a holiday camp imho. we'd get better results from a concentration camp. awrite, there might be a few bumps on the pitch(es) due to mineworks or tunnels, but I'm sure it is all to easy for some doon there. I said this years ago, having witnessed some of them swanning about, during Mixu's days.:cb

100% correct.
I'd rather see the players tear up Arthur Seat and down to the sand dunes at Gullane than play pretty boy at East Mains with their Play stations and hairdryers.
It all started to go tits up once East Mains opened.
Questions need answered

CropleyWasGod
26-03-2014, 01:55 PM
East Mains is a holiday camp imho. we'd get better results from a concentration camp. awrite, there might be a few bumps on the pitch(es) due to mineworks or tunnels, but I'm sure it is all to easy for some doon there. I said this years ago, having witnessed some of them swanning about, during Mixu's days.:cb

Hmmm... at least with a prison camp, there's a chance of finding a Pele, a Moore or even a Wark lost in the tunnels.

Caversham Green
26-03-2014, 02:01 PM
Hmmm... at least with a prison camp, there's a chance of finding a Pele, a Moore or even a Wark lost in the tunnels.

Aye, but we'd end up signing Rocky.

In goal.

easty
26-03-2014, 02:03 PM
100% correct.
I'd rather see the players tear up Arthur Seat and down to the sand dunes at Gullane than play pretty boy at East Mains with their Play stations and hairdryers.
It all started to go tits up once East Mains opened.
Questions need answered

Pretty Boy, can you confirm this?

easty
26-03-2014, 02:07 PM
100% correct.
I'd rather see the players tear up Arthur Seat and down to the sand dunes at Gullane than play pretty boy at East Mains with their Play stations and hairdryers.
It all started to go tits up once East Mains opened.
Questions need answered

Somethings should just stay in the past.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTNhCzmUjlw

Nae need for it when we have a quality facility like East Mains.

Fitness isnt an issue in my opinion anyway, It's effort and quality thats lacking.

The_Horde
26-03-2014, 02:12 PM
Any player who can work in that environment and not improve doesn't deserve to have a contract. It's all there for them to go and learn.

Also, any problem with players "swanning around" is nothing to do with east mains. That's the individual players attitudes.

People can say what they like about Derek Riordan but I bet if east mains was there when he was coming up through the ranks he'd have been twice the player he was.

Some folk just think because we've been rubbish for 7 years and east mains has been around for 7 years that it's clearly the issue.

The issue is we sold our best assets to build the training centre and the stand and we haven't invested any of that money putting some quality into the playing squad.

IMO we should've held off on that stand a bit longer.

ManBearPig
26-03-2014, 02:33 PM
;3943223']Any player who can work in that environment and not improve doesn't deserve to have a contract. It's all there for them to go and learn.

Also, any problem with players "swanning around" is nothing to do with east mains. That's the individual players attitudes.

People can say what they like about Derek Riordan but I bet if east mains was there when he was coming up through the ranks he'd have been twice the player he was.

Some folk just think because we've been rubbish for 7 years and east mains has been around for 7 years that it's clearly the issue.

The issue is we sold our best assets to build the training centre and the stand and we haven't invested any of that money putting some quality into the playing squad.

IMO we should've held off on that stand a bit longer.

well said.