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Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 06:45 PM
Was interested to hear him say he was "pleased with our Diamond set up" when all I could see was a midfield struggling to work out where they were playing (mostly due to a lack of footballing brain) full backs were given no support as no one was really playing ahead of them, McGivern was victim of this mostly.

And how Heffernan played the full game i'll never understand. The mans a passenger.

I support Butcher but today I think he got a few things wrong.

Kaiser1962
22-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Was interested to hear him say he was "pleased with our Diamond set up" when all I could see was a midfield struggling to work out where they were playing (mostly due to a lack of footballing brain) full backs were given no support as no one was really playing ahead of them, McGivern was victim of this mostly.

And how Heffernan played the full game i'll never understand. The mans a passenger.

I support Butcher but today I think he got a few things wrong.

You can only p!sh with the cock you've got I'm afraid.

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 06:50 PM
You can only p!sh with the cock you've got I'm afraid.

Agree completely but it seems like he chose to pish on his shoes with said cock (to continue the analogy.)

Bobby's Cinema
22-03-2014, 06:50 PM
I'm not reading too much into his comments tbh. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to see how bad things actually are

Borderhibbie76
22-03-2014, 07:06 PM
To be fair he has tried the slagging off post match of this shower of s@@@ we currently have at our disposal and its backfired badly so he is probably running out of things to say post match

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:20 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Joe6-2
22-03-2014, 07:23 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

This

mutley
22-03-2014, 07:24 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Spot on

BOB MARLEYS DUG
22-03-2014, 07:25 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Correct as usual Cat.

bingo70
22-03-2014, 07:26 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Imo he needs to find his best 11, convince them theyve got a chance to succeed at the club and persist with them. If someone picks up an injury then that gives someone in the reserves a chance to prove whst they can do.

I think bringing someone in after being out for weeks, giving them a game or two then dropping them isnt helping anyone.

Albion Hibs
22-03-2014, 07:27 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.


:top marks

He he has to ride out the season, pump the ugly lot a couple of times then build his own team over the summer. Any manager that can turn water into wine / build a team in a January window on our budget would be far too good to be at hibs if we are being honest. He needs time and ideally a few folk who can actually play football.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 07:28 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

:agree: If you go through the team one by one, being completely honest there are very few i'd keep even as squad members. The previous managers have riddled the club with bloody awful players, players who are just not and never will be good enough to get the club into the top 4.

Butcher has probably added to this by telling them straight, but the arm round the neck and the kissing their arse was not working either. This season has gone just like the last few, a few wins a lot of defeats and draws. Next season Butcher has his work cut out to get this club to where it should be, its something we said last season and the season before and the one before that.

The 64 thousand dollar question is can he do it?

number 27
22-03-2014, 07:28 PM
You can only p!sh with the cock you've got I'm afraid.


He could have improved his cock in January, He didn't.

matty_f
22-03-2014, 07:29 PM
:agree: If you go through the team one by one, being completely honest there are very few i'd keep even as squad members. The previous managers have riddled the club with bloody awful players, players who are just not and never will be good enough to get the club into the top 4.

Butcher has probably added to this by telling them straight, but the arm round the neck and the kissing their arse was not working either. This season has gone just like the last few, a few wins a lot of defeats and draws. Next season Butcher has his work cut out to get this club to where it should be, its something we said last season and the season before and the one before that.

The 64 thousand dollar question is can he do it?

:top marks

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 07:31 PM
He could have improved his cock in January, He didn't.

In his defense he did say his main work would be in the summer, and the players he did bring in were to bolster the team until then.

ehf
22-03-2014, 07:33 PM
He could have improved his cock in January, He didn't.

:agree: could have turned it from a betting pencil into a mega-dobber to borrow from the Arctic Monkeys.

number 27
22-03-2014, 07:34 PM
In his defense he did say his main work would be in the summer, and the players he did bring in were to bolster the team until then.

Seems like a misjudgement now though IMO. Other teams made better signings than us despite all the Marsella hype.

matty_f
22-03-2014, 07:35 PM
In his defense he did say his main work would be in the summer, and the players he did bring in were to bolster the team until then.

And he's been unlucky that Watmore had been booted up and down when he's played.

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 07:36 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Agree completely. But a blind man without a dug could have seen the game was passing Heffernan by and needed to be subbed.

Like I said I support Butcher and he will need the summer to fix this. But that doesn't make him immune to criticism imo.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:37 PM
Imo he needs to find his best 11, convince them theyve got a chance to succeed at the club and persist with them. If someone picks up an injury then that gives someone in the reserves a chance to prove whst they can do.

I think bringing someone in after being out for weeks, giving them a game or two then dropping them isnt helping anyone.

Yeah I agree with this mate. Find the best 11 and get the best he can out them till season ends.

silverhibee
22-03-2014, 07:37 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Are you saying he is listening to the fans on here and doing as the fans demanded, that would be a worry for me as we don't see them in training all week. :wink:

I haven't demanded anyone is brought back in to the team, it makes no difference to the outcome.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:38 PM
:agree: If you go through the team one by one, being completely honest there are very few i'd keep even as squad members. The previous managers have riddled the club with bloody awful players, players who are just not and never will be good enough to get the club into the top 4.

Butcher has probably added to this by telling them straight, but the arm round the neck and the kissing their arse was not working either. This season has gone just like the last few, a few wins a lot of defeats and draws. Next season Butcher has his work cut out to get this club to where it should be, its something we said last season and the season before and the one before that.

The 64 thousand dollar question is can he do it?

I'm the same, wouldn't keep more than Prob 4 in the whole squad. I do though believe he will change it round next season if he gets the men he wants in early and a good pre season under their belt.

weonlywon6-2
22-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

couldnt really put it any better.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:41 PM
Are you saying he is listening to the fans on here and doing as the fans demanded, that would be a worry for me as we don't see them in training all week. :wink:

I haven't demanded anyone is brought back in to the team, it makes no difference to the outcome.

Haha, no but when he does change things to what fans were wanting and they don't win the same ones are back on giving it big licks.

bingo70
22-03-2014, 07:41 PM
:agree: If you go through the team one by one, being completely honest there are very few i'd keep even as squad members. The previous managers have riddled the club with bloody awful players, players who are just not and never will be good enough to get the club into the top 4.

Butcher has probably added to this by telling them straight, but the arm round the neck and the kissing their arse was not working either. This season has gone just like the last few, a few wins a lot of defeats and draws. Next season Butcher has his work cut out to get this club to where it should be, its something we said last season and the season before and the one before that.

The 64 thousand dollar question is can he do it?

Collins scored a lot of goals down south so obviously knows how to score goals if played the right way and with confidence.

Heffernan has got a good scoring record at this level, he hasnt become a ***** player over night.

Craig was a top performer for st johnstone wheb they were better than us so hes capable at this level.

Thomson is a scotland international and played regularly for a good rangers side.

Zoubir had a good game against celtic but not been seen since.

Im not disputing theres some ***** in the squad but hes not making the most out of what he has, combine that with the signings hes made looking nothing special (cant believe he never prioritised a right back) then im going to admit im concerned.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 07:43 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Agreed. But sadly, he doesn't seem to actually have a team of players to pick from. I don't think anybody really believed that these changes were going to make any dramatic difference, as the players he replaced, were replaced with other players that have already played this season and have failed to step up to the mark themselves.

The only player that got pass marks today was the only player that hadn't played for us yet this season, which was of course Sean Murdoch.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:43 PM
Agree completely. But a blind man without a dug could have seen the game was passing Heffernan by and needed to be subbed.

Like I said I support Butcher and he will need the summer to fix this. But that doesn't make him immune to criticism imo.

I don't think he's immune to criticism. But some are way over the top and think they know better though. I'm not happy but have faith he can change it.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 07:46 PM
Collins scored a lot of goals down south so obviously knows how to score goals if played the right way and with confidence.

Heffernan has got a good scoring record at this level, he hasnt become a ***** player over night.

Craig was a top performer for st johnstone wheb they were better than us so hes capable at this level.

Thomson is a scotland international and played regularly for a good rangers side.

Zoubir had a good game against celtic but not been seen since.

Im not disputing theres some ***** in the squad but hes not making the most out of what he has, combine that with the signings hes made looking nothing special (cant believe he never prioritised a right back) then im going to admit im concerned.



Why have all these players you quote not taken the SPFL by storm as you clearly think they should?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 07:50 PM
Why have all these players you quote not taken the SPFL by storm as you clearly think they should?

Why haven't any of the players we've signed in the last several years made much of an impact in the SPFL that we've signed?

According to you, it's because they've all been *****. You'd rather believe that the club have had 60+ problems over the last several years, rather than look into the possibility of 1 problem that has affected 60+ players.

Surely the 2nd possibilty has to be viewed as the more rational one?

tomf
22-03-2014, 07:53 PM
I think we all realise that the current squad is not good enough for Hibs. Some individuals have had some excellent games but more often than not they have played like they haven't a clue; no finding space, no decent running of the ball, poor tacking and hardly any attempts at closing opposition players down, poor control, panicking on the ball etc...the list of basic blunders goes on and on. None of us can envy Terry Butcher but I am confident that he can do something over the Summer to begin the rebuilding process that is required. It appears that the team have given up on this season and can't be motivated but if we are to avoid getting into a play-off scramble I would seriously consider whether we should play our best young, talented players against Hearts for the obvious reason that they have nothng to lose and I am sure there will be some hefty tackles going around. I dont care what happens to Hearts but I do care about the risk of injury to some great Hib's prospects and we might need them more in the other bottom six round of games. My advice to Terry in the meantime is get back to basics; play a formation that the players are familiar with and, as far as possible, play them in their best positions.

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 07:53 PM
I don't think he's immune to criticism. But some are way over the top and think they know better though. I'm not happy but have faith he can change it.

I think the calls for his head is premature and OTT but he needs to start showing a bit more than weve seen recently.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 07:57 PM
I think the calls for his head is premature and OTT but he needs to start showing a bit more than weve seen recently.

I think what he done wrong was saying the whole team pretty much needs changed. The players seem to have taken the huff. He can only do so much but when they cross that white line it's up to the players to compete and win their individual battles (cliche I know) but true.

jakeshibs
22-03-2014, 08:03 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

This..... lets stand by support TB and let him do his job which without the pressure he has done at 2 previous clubs

Ronniekirk
22-03-2014, 08:03 PM
Funny many on here DEMANDED changes. So he did. Many said we should play Heff so he did. Many wanted Thomson back (me included) so he did. They never done anything at all so all us who think we know how to pick a team sadly don't. He sees who's best in training and plays them. Sadly they don't care about the club and are rank rotten.

He can't win.

Yep he can't win and neither can the Team .

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 08:04 PM
I think what he done wrong was saying the whole team pretty much needs changed. The players seem to have taken the huff. He can only do so much but when they cross that white line it's up to the players to compete and win their individual battles (cliche I know) but true.

Aye, theres definitely something the players don't like about his approach (all the more reason to punt them i suppose). He does however have to do his best to set them up so when they cross that white line they have the best chance to win 3 points and for me he didn't do that.

Ronniekirk
22-03-2014, 08:07 PM
I think what he done wrong was saying the whole team pretty much needs changed. The players seem to have taken the huff. He can only do so much but when they cross that white line it's up to the players to compete and win their individual battles (cliche I know) but true.
He probably didn't think at that point that they would just capitulate , and roll over without showing any bottle. ,forget skill we are nt even expecting that we just want a team that can grind out a draw or two

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 08:08 PM
Aye, theres definitely something the players don't like about his approach (all the more reason to punt them i suppose). He does however have to do his best to set them up so when they cross that white line they have the best chance to win 3 points and for me he didn't do that.

I honestly don't think they are doing what they are told though. They seem to just strut through games doing what they want. It's embarrassing the club are still paying them.

tomf
22-03-2014, 08:10 PM
Why haven't any of the players we've signed in the last several years made much of an impact in the SPFL that we've signed?

According to you, it's because they've all been *****. You'd rather believe that the club have had 60+ problems over the last several years, rather than look into the possibility of 1 problem that has affected 60+ players.

Surely the 2nd possibilty has to be viewed as the more rational one?

I think this has to be considered but it would only make sense to me if, for instance, the board were interfering with the footballing side. I don't recall hearing any rumours to that effect but it does appear that, logically, something is wrong at the core of the club. I was told once that there were issues about bonus payments in the past but that idea is rendered idiotic when the team can hardly string two passes together let alone a run of victories. It might be the ethos of the club, it might be structural, it might be financial, it might be about a lack of ambition, it might be fear but whatever it is, something needs to be done about it. I believe that Terry Butcher has a great deal of motivational skills but he may need to look beyond the dressing room and he may need help to get this club back to where it belongs. If we saw a little positive light at the end of the tunnel I know the majority of fans would be right behind him.

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 08:10 PM
I honestly don't think they are doing what they are told though. They seem to just strut through games doing what they want. It's embarrassing the club are still paying them.

If thats the case though, stop playing them?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:14 PM
I think this has to be considered but it would only make sense to me if, for instance, the board were interfering with the footballing side. I don't recall hearing any rumours to that effect but it does appear that, logically, something is wrong at the core of the club. I was told once that there were issues about bonus payments in the past but that idea is rendered idiotic when the team can hardly string two passes together let alone a run of victories. It might be the ethos of the club, it might be structural, it might be financial, it might be about a lack of ambition, it might be fear but whatever it is, something needs to be done about it. I believe that Terry Butcher has a great deal of motivational skills but he may need to look beyond the dressing room and he may need help to get this club back to where it belongs. If we saw a little positive light at the end of the tunnel I know the majority of fans would be right behind him.

I agree. We need something, anything to get the ball rolling again.

Even if the board aren't meddling, it could still be an attitude thing that's filtering down the business structure.

If the attitude of the board stinks, it's can sink down to every other layer. Eventually you're left with players and staff that just can't wait to leave. Which seems to be the case more and more often these days.

IWasThere2016
22-03-2014, 08:15 PM
Imo he needs to find his best 11, convince them theyve got a chance to succeed at the club and persist with them. If someone picks up an injury then that gives someone in the reserves a chance to prove whst they can do.

I think bringing someone in after being out for weeks, giving them a game or two then dropping them isnt helping anyone.

This.

bingo70
22-03-2014, 08:15 PM
Why have all these players you quote not taken the SPFL by storm as you clearly think they should?

Confidence.

I dint think butcher is getting the best out any of his players and his whole management style seems based on bringing in his own players. John collins man management style was slated but he got the best out of brown, stevenson, zemmama, benji, kevin mccann, chris hogg plus others i cant think of just now.

Imo a managers role is to improve, motivate and get the most out of his players, not just sign new ones.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Why haven't any of the players we've signed in the last several years made much of an impact in the SPFL that we've signed?

According to you, it's because they've all been *****. You'd rather believe that the club have had 60+ problems over the last several years, rather than look into the possibility of 1 problem that has affected 60+ players.

Surely the 2nd possibilty has to be viewed as the more rational one?

Caldwell Sheils Murphy Jones Stokes Riordan Bamba Miller, every one of those that gave us a 4th place finish, Williams is supposed to be our best keeper since Goram, Hanlon is superb. Thomson is the messiah. Certain players have made huge differences but as a team we have been poor. Instead of disagreeing, give me an answer. What is it thats wrong, who is meddling from above, and answer the question you keep ignoring. Which manager has not been backed?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Imo a managers role is to improve, motivate and get the most out of his players, not just sign new ones.

This is what concerns me as well. Butchers been here for the best part of 5 months now and there really hasn't been any difference at all.

You'd have expected to have seen some difference at least. But as some of the other posters have said, it's almost like the players go out onto the pitch and appear to have no instructions on what to do.

It can't just be a case of players choosing to ignore managerial instructions, that just doesn't seem to make any sense. Why would they ignore Fenlons instructions and now Butchers? Why would Butchers own signings ignore his instructions as well?

But that's what we see week in and week out. A team without a plan.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 08:23 PM
This is what concerns me as well. Butchers been here for the best part of 5 months now and there really hasn't been any difference at all.

You'd have expected to have seen some difference at least. But as some of the other posters have said, it's almost like the players go out onto the pitch and appear to have no instructions on what to do.

It can't just be a case of players choosing to ignore managerial instructions, that just doesn't seem to make any sense. Why would they ignore Fenlons instructions and now Butchers? Why would Butchers own signings ignore his instructions as well?

But that's what we see week in and week out. A team without a plan.

So who is making them play this bad, who ARE they listening to?

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 08:23 PM
If thats the case though, stop playing them?

The whole squad? Because it's looking like bar 3 or 4 the rest just want away.

RIP
22-03-2014, 08:26 PM
Confidence.

I dint think butcher is getting the best out any of his players and his whole management style seems based on bringing in his own players. John collins man management style was slated but he got the best out of brown, stevenson, zemmama, benji, kevin mccann, chris hogg plus others i cant think of just now.

Imo a managers role is to improve, motivate and get the most out of his players, not just sign new ones.

Agree 100%.

When I was appointed to manage a team if I had asked to change all the staff inside a year my arse would be the first one oot the door.

Centre Hawf
22-03-2014, 08:27 PM
The whole squad? Because it's looking like bar 3 or 4 the rest just want away.

I'd rather watch young laddies and the ones who care play and lose than a team of folk that dont care lose.

JCHibby
22-03-2014, 08:29 PM
Agree 100%.

When I was appointed to manage a team if I had asked to change all the staff inside a year my arse would be the first one oot the door.

Trouble is 40% of this squad have had years pi$$ing about at hibs! sorry times up! You don't want to tow the line, get a new employer

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:30 PM
Caldwell Sheils Murphy Jones Stokes Riordan Bamba Miller, every one of those that gave us a 4th place finish, Williams is supposed to be our best keeper since Goram, Hanlon is superb. Thomson is the messiah. Certain players have made huge differences but as a team we have been poor. Instead of disagreeing, give me an answer. What is it thats wrong, who is meddling from above, and answer the question you keep ignoring. Which manager has not been backed?

I've already given you my answer. But you keep choosing to ignore it. If I had any hard evidence as to what the problem actually is, I would present it.

I haven't said anything about a lack of finanical backing concerning our recent managers. I don't think finances are a problem at all.

I "suspect" that their may be an issue regarding attitudes further up in the club and that it's filtering down to staff and players effecting performance throughout the club, regardless of replacements. But I have no hard evidence to back this up, it just seems logical to suspect this, considering the board are the lowest common denominator in all of this.

What if Butcher brings in his own players and nothing changes? Will it still be down to an endless stream of rubbish managers and players? Or will you ever begin to suspect that there may be another issue at hand?

Swedish hibee
22-03-2014, 08:30 PM
If this was Yogi getting these results- there would be outrage, in fact there was and he had better record than Butcher.
Listen there is nothing I want more than a successful Hibs team but I am seriously loosing faith in Butcher. He should be getting more than this outta the players whether he likes them or not. He knew the squad he was taken over when he took the job.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:32 PM
So who is making them play this bad, who ARE they listening to?

They don't appear to be listening to anyone. We have a team that appears to have no mind behind it's play. But this isn't anything new, it's been like this for years.

HoboHarry
22-03-2014, 08:33 PM
I've already given you my answer. But you keep choosing to ignore it. If I had any hard evidence as to what the problem actually is, I would present it.

I haven't said anything about a lack of finanical backing concerning our recent managers. I don't think finances are a problem at all.

I "suspect" that their may be an issue regarding attitudes further up in the club and that it's filtering down to staff and players effecting performance throughout the club, regardless of replacements. But I have no hard evidence to back this up, it just seems logical to suspect this, considering the board are the lowest common denominator in all of this.

What if Butcher brings in his own players and nothing changes? Will it still be down to an endless stream of rubbish managers and players? Or will you ever begin to suspect that there may be another issue at hand?
And if he does bring in his own players and (giving him the 18 month period he said he would need) things do change will you admit that you were simply plucking wild guesses out of the air and admit that in fact you had no idea what you were talking about?

HoboHarry
22-03-2014, 08:35 PM
If this was Yogi getting these results- there would be outrage, in fact there was and he had better record than Butcher.
Listen there is nothing I want more than a successful Hibs team but I am seriously loosing faith in Butcher. He should be getting more than this outta the players whether he likes them or not. He knew the squad he was taken over when he took the job.
Indeed he did - and he said it would take 18 months to get the team to where it should be. Not that the bed-wetters will admit to this of course.

bingo70
22-03-2014, 08:36 PM
Trouble is 40% of this squad have had years pi$$ing about at hibs! sorry times up! You don't want to tow the line, get a new employer

Every manager has tried that. Its not a threat that works as they know they will get a new emoloyer no problem.

Before mowbrey arrived goc almost got transferred to aberdeen, he got the most out of him and was a terrific asset to the club, thats what i expect from a good manager and i dont see anything like that happening with butcher

JCHibby
22-03-2014, 08:38 PM
And if he does bring in his own players and (giving him the 18 month period he said he would need) things do change will you admit that you were simply plucking wild guesses out of the air and admit that in fact you had no idea what you were talking about?

Basically players arrive at hibs, great stadium, great training facilities. I have arrived, the players we have brought in are not strong enough mentally and not winners, accept defeat easily and it rots to the core. Terry will bring winners and if this bunch don't like it, good luck at Alloa

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:39 PM
And if he does bring in his own players and (giving him the 18 month period he said he would need) things do change will you admit that you were simply plucking wild guesses out of the air and admit that in fact you had no idea what you were talking about?

I've already admitted that my opinion has no hard evidence and is simply based on theory. So if Butcher can somehow turn us around with the same board in place, then i'll hold my hand up and say that it was simply coincidence that the last 6 managers and 60+ players just all happened to be rubbish.

But if he fails to do so, I doubt you and many others that share your point of view will be prepared to put your own hands up and admit that you're wrong. You have all had years to do this.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 08:48 PM
I'd rather watch young laddies and the ones who care play and lose than a team of folk that dont care lose.

I would too. But I also wouldn't want those young lads zapped of confidence if they were to also lose each week. Bring in a couple and see how they do.

HoboHarry
22-03-2014, 08:50 PM
I've already admitted that my opinion has no hard evidence and is simply based on theory. So if Butcher can somehow turn us around with the same board in place, then i'll hold my hand up and say that it was simply coincidence that the last 6 managers and 60+ players just all happened to be rubbish.

But if he fails to do so, I doubt you and many others that share your point of view will be prepared to put your own hands up and admit that you're wrong. You have all had years to do this.
I would be more inclined to believe it if an ex-manager came out and stated it but as yet that hasn't happened has it? What I do believe is that the posters - like you - who do little other than criticize will disappear like snow off a dyke if/when we start to climb again.

emerald green
22-03-2014, 09:04 PM
I've already admitted that my opinion has no hard evidence and is simply based on theory. So if Butcher can somehow turn us around with the same board in place, then i'll hold my hand up and say that it was simply coincidence that the last 6 managers and 60+ players just all happened to be rubbish.

But if he fails to do so, I doubt you and many others that share your point of view will be prepared to put your own hands up and admit that you're wrong. You have all had years to do this.

:agree: It's obvious to a blind man that there are deep seated problems at our club. For what it's worth, I've already posted elsewhere on these forums my tuppence worth regarding what I think the causes/solutions might be. I may be wrong. I simply don't know. But to bury one's head in the sand and pretend all is well at our club is crazy. Just look across the city. Good luck Terry. I've a feeling you are going to need it.

Paisley Hibby
22-03-2014, 09:22 PM
Collins scored a lot of goals down south so obviously knows how to score goals if played the right way and with confidence.

Heffernan has got a good scoring record at this level, he hasnt become a ***** player over night.

Craig was a top performer for st johnstone wheb they were better than us so hes capable at this level.

Thomson is a scotland international and played regularly for a good rangers side.

Zoubir had a good game against celtic but not been seen since.

Im not disputing theres some ***** in the squad but hes not making the most out of what he has, combine that with the signings hes made looking nothing special (cant believe he never prioritised a right back) then im going to admit im concerned.

I agree. At McDermid Park today we looked clueless and demoralised. There's something seriously wrong behind the scenes at ER/East Mains. Whatever it is it seems that Butcher is just the latest manager to be affected by it and until that's fixed it will not matter how many new players we bring in.

Jim44
22-03-2014, 09:55 PM
Yeah I agree with this mate. Find the best 11 and get the best he can out them till season ends.

I'm sure there's a couple of draws left in them this season and we'll probably survive by the skin of our teeth in an untidy dog eat dog end of season battle. I don't think we'll have enough bottle to deal with the Jambos in our two matches against them and the excitement of us relegating them next week looks like being a huge anti-climax. It's ironic that they'll face the ignominy of relegation while probably holding the bragging rights over us.

Alfred E Newman
22-03-2014, 10:27 PM
I'm sure there's a couple of draws left in them this season and we'll probably survive by the skin of our teeth in an untidy dog eat dog end of season battle. I don't think we'll have enough bottle to deal with the Jambos in our two matches against them and the excitement of us relegating them next week looks like being a huge anti-climax. It's ironic that they'll face the ignominy of relegation while probably holding the bragging rights over us.

If the unthinkable happened and we were to lose twice to them before the end of this season ,his days would be numbered.

stevejordan
22-03-2014, 10:33 PM
If the unthinkable happened and we were to lose twice to them before the end of this season ,his days would be numbered.

Dont agree Petrie has nailed his coat on his shakey peg on Terrys peg not even his teflon coating will get him out of this mess if it goeas breasts heavenwards the AGM Sacking stunt wont be bought a 3rd time.

But he will have something up his sleeve.

Thecat23
22-03-2014, 10:37 PM
If the unthinkable happened and we were to lose twice to them before the end of this season ,his days would be numbered.

No they won't.. And I'll happily place a wager on it. £100 go a charity of bet winners choice. We are rotten and just as bad as hearts IMO. But TB will be given time at least next season. If we lose to hearts it's nothing new. They have this hex over us but it won't cost him his job. It will piss of many including me but he'll be here and rightly so.

It's the players I'd love to go through if we lose. Bunch of ****ing useless money grabbing no hopers who I hope **** right off and play in the lowest leagues possible where they belong.

I'm fed up of the lot of them.

Gerard
22-03-2014, 10:41 PM
No they won't.. And I'll happily place a wager on it. £100 go a charity of bet winners choice. We are rotten and just as bad as hearts IMO. But TB will be given time at least next season. If we lose to hearts it's nothing new. They have this hex over us but it won't cost him his job. It will piss of many including me but he'll be here and rightly so.

It's the players I'd love to go through if we lose. Bunch of ****ing useless money grabbing no hopers who I hope **** right off and play in the lowest leagues possible where they belong.

I'm fed up of the lot of them.

You and the majority of the Hibs family. This team has continued another season of mediocrity. I have faith in TB and his management team. Next season must be better than this season and I want at least one cup:wink:

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 10:42 PM
If the unthinkable happened and we were to lose twice to them before the end of this season ,his days would be numbered.

Dont agree in the slightest.
TB will get next season and so he should.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
22-03-2014, 10:47 PM
If the unthinkable happened and we were to lose twice to them before the end of this season ,his days would be numbered.

Not a chance

IberianHibernian
22-03-2014, 10:53 PM
Dont agree Petrie has nailed his coat on his shakey peg on Terrys peg not even his teflon coating will get him out of this mess if it goeas breasts heavenwards the AGM Sacking stunt wont be bought a 3rd time.

But he will have something up his sleeve.I also think that Butcher will know that IF he wants to continue with us he can , at least if we`re still in top league ( if we`re relegated he`ll get abuse but probably would have enough alternatives from other clubs and media to have an alternative to managing us ) . I`d imagine Petrie`s dream scenario now would be Butcher getting an offer he can`t refiuse elsewhere - chance to bring in someone new who would really stir up interest in our club .

stevejordan
22-03-2014, 11:02 PM
I also think that Butcher will know that IF he wants to continue with us he can , at least if we`re still in top league ( if we`re relegated he`ll get abuse but probably would have enough alternatives from other clubs and media to have an alternative to managing us ) . I`d imagine Petrie`s dream scenario now would be Butcher getting an offer he can`t refiuse elsewhere - chance to bring in someone new who would really stir up interest in our club .

how many times do i need to say this we are safe even if we lose all games for rest of season Paddy seen to that

Last 10 matches (overall) P W D L GF GA Dif Pts
1 Celtic 10 9 0 1 30 2 +28 27
2 Aberdeen 10 7 1 2 12 8 +4 22
3 Dundee Utd 10 5 3 2 18 15 +3 18
4 Motherwell 10 5 2 3 21 18 +3 17
5 Ross County 10 4 3 3 15 14 +1 15
6 Partick Thistle 10 3 5 2 17 13 +4 14
7 St Johnstone 10 4 1 5 10 10 0 13
8 Inverness 10 3 3 4 7 12 -5 12
9 Kilmarnock 10 2 3 5 12 19 -7 9
10 Hearts 10 2 2 6 11 20 -9 8
11 St Mirren 10 2 1 7 9 17 -8 7
12 Hibernian 10 1 4 5 12 21 -9 7

Jim44
22-03-2014, 11:18 PM
I also think that Butcher will know that IF he wants to continue with us he can , at least if we`re still in top league ( if we`re relegated he`ll get abuse but probably would have enough alternatives from other clubs and media to have an alternative to managing us ) . I`d imagine Petrie`s dream scenario now would be Butcher getting an offer he can`t refiuse elsewhere - chance to bring in someone new who would really stir up interest in our club .

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm in your last statement? If we ended up losing Butcher and co. after less than a season I think Petrie's position would be untenable. Butcher will be around for a wee while yet but I'm convinced that he never thought for a second that we would sink to the level of possible relegation candidates. My concern is whether a deflated Butcher has the balls to keep our heads above water because the heap of cr@p on the pitch doesn't.

Jim44
22-03-2014, 11:30 PM
how many times do i need to say this we are safe even if we lose all games for rest of season Paddy seen to that

Last 10 matches (overall) P W D L GF GA Dif Pts
1 Celtic 10 9 0 1 30 2 +28 27
2 Aberdeen 10 7 1 2 12 8 +4 22
3 Dundee Utd 10 5 3 2 18 15 +3 18
4 Motherwell 10 5 2 3 21 18 +3 17
5 Ross County 10 4 3 3 15 14 +1 15
6 Partick Thistle 10 3 5 2 17 13 +4 14
7 St Johnstone 10 4 1 5 10 10 0 13
8 Inverness 10 3 3 4 7 12 -5 12
9 Kilmarnock 10 2 3 5 12 19 -7 9
10 Hearts 10 2 2 6 11 20 -9 8
11 St Mirren 10 2 1 7 9 17 -8 7
12 Hibernian 10 1 4 5 12 21 -9 7

Any chance of explaining the logic and arithmetic of your surprising claim?

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 11:32 PM
A
Any chance of explaining the logic and arithmetic of your surprising claim?

Might be due to me being half cut but i cannot make out any sense of that table.
Whats it meant to say ?:confused:

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 11:35 PM
Why haven't any of the players we've signed in the last several years made much of an impact in the SPFL that we've signed?

According to you, it's because they've all been *****. You'd rather believe that the club have had 60+ problems over the last several years, rather than look into the possibility of 1 problem that has affected 60+ players.

Surely the 2nd possibilty has to be viewed as the more rational one?

:top marks

Letter by letter nail on head. We have a fair few good players in our team as proven by their time at other clubs.

Russ
22-03-2014, 11:38 PM
Was interested to hear him say he was "pleased with our Diamond set up" when all I could see was a midfield struggling to work out where they were playing (mostly due to a lack of footballing brain) full backs were given no support as no one was really playing ahead of them, McGivern was victim of this mostly. And how Heffernan played the full game i'll never understand. The mans a passenger. I support Butcher but today I think he got a few things wrong. Can I ask what it is that makes you and a number of others think they know better than an experienced International player and a qualified coach? Never ceases to amaze me that one.

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 11:43 PM
Can I ask what it is that makes you and a number of others think they know better than an experienced International player and a qualified coach? Never ceases to amaze me that one.

Experienced International captain with 77 caps IIRC:agree:

Russ
22-03-2014, 11:44 PM
:agree: If you go through the team one by one, being completely honest there are very few i'd keep even as squad members. The previous managers have riddled the club with bloody awful players, players who are just not and never will be good enough to get the club into the top 4. Butcher has probably added to this by telling them straight, but the arm round the neck and the kissing their arse was not working either. This season has gone just like the last few, a few wins a lot of defeats and draws. Next season Butcher has his work cut out to get this club to where it should be, its something we said last season and the season before and the one before that. The 64 thousand dollar question is can he do it? No the question is actually will he be given time to do it before our army of armchair coaches demand his head. Butcher and Malpas are as good a management team as we are ever likely to get and should be given more than 1 season ( as is being touted on here ) if necessary . I'm no expert but a bairn with a biscuit arse can see these 2 have what it takes to turn our club around.

CropleyWasGod
22-03-2014, 11:44 PM
how many times do i need to say this we are safe even if we lose all games for rest of season Paddy seen to that

7

Can't agree.

But prove me wrong...please :greengrin

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 11:46 PM
No the question is actually will he be given time to do it before our army of armchair coaches demand his head. Butcher and Malpas are as good a management team as we are ever likely to get and should be given more than 1 season ( as is being touted on here ) if necessary . I'm no expert but a bairn with a biscuit arse can see these 2 have what it takes to turn our club around.

:not worth

Ronniekirk
22-03-2014, 11:51 PM
I agree. At McDermid Park today we looked clueless and demoralised. There's something seriously wrong behind the scenes at ER/East Mains. Whatever it is it seems that Butcher is just the latest manager to be affected by it and until that's fixed it will not matter how many new players we bring in.
You should of done what I did Stayed in Paisley It was odds on we wouldn't do anything after that shambles at Partick and laying a top six side Wotherspoon I assume is turning out to be a better signing for them than Craig is for us .But you just know Craig could move to another Scottish side and start scoring again so clearly there is a problem ,Can we fix it Who knows but we don't have time to fix it for Derby and it pains me to think they could edge us out by a single goal again there as that's all it will take .

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 11:53 PM
Here's my problem with the "the players aren't good enough" argument, I'll take a standardish starting XI from this season:

Ben Williams - Ex Man Utd youth, won player of the year awards before, definately good enough

Jordan Forster - Inconsistency to be expected being young but has played at RB and CB before so should be good enough
Michael Nelson - A decent leader and has played well at SPL level before.
Paul Hanlon - Former Scotland U21s captain and arguably our best player
Ryan McGivern - Performed well at Championship level, ex Man City youth

Paul Cairney - Took a step up a couple of seasons back but has chipped in with assists
Scott Robertson - Experienced SPL central midfielder and has played at Championship level
Kevin Thomson - Played in European competition, Scotland international, championship level
Alex Harris - Pacey and showed last year he's capable of very good things

James Collins - Goal machine down south, scored four in a game despite coming on as a sub with twenty-five minutes to go
Paul Heffernan - Experienced, proven SPL player

Even some subs - Rowan Vine - experienced, proven SPL player who has racked up a seven figure amount in transfer figures in the past, Tom Taiwo who is good and tidy, Alan Maybury - good, experienced SPL defender etc. etc. etc.

I don't buy into this idea that the team isn't good enough and I don't buy into the idea that the manager isn't good enough at all.

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 11:56 PM
Here's my problem with the "the players aren't good enough" argument, I'll take a standardish starting XI from this season:

Ben Williams - Ex Man Utd youth, won player of the year awards before, definately good enough

Jordan Forster - Inconsistency to be expected being young but has played at RB and CB before so should be good enough
Michael Nelson - A decent leader and has played well at SPL level before.
Paul Hanlon - Former Scotland U21s captain and arguably our best player
Ryan McGivern - Performed well at Championship level, ex Man City youth

Paul Cairney - Took a step up a couple of seasons back but has chipped in with assists
Scott Robertson - Experienced SPL central midfielder and has played at Championship level
Kevin Thomson - Played in European competition, Scotland international, championship level
Alex Harris - Pacey and showed last year he's capable of very good things

James Collins - Goal machine down south, scored four in a game despite coming on as a sub with twenty-five minutes to go
Paul Heffernan - Experienced, proven SPL player

Even some subs - Rowan Vine - experienced, proven SPL player who has racked up a seven figure amount in transfer figures in the past, Tom Taiwo who is good and tidy, Alan Maybury - good, experienced SPL defender etc. etc. etc.

I don't buy into this idea that the team isn't good enough and I don't buy into the idea that the manager isn't good enough at all.

Excellent post and i agree with many of your assessments but.....
Whats your *****g point :greengrin

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 11:56 PM
Excellent post and i agree with many of your assessments but.....
Whats your *****g point :greengrin

So many people saying "the players are ****", "the players aren't good enough" etc.

It's simply not true. There's something much deeper lying than that.

sleeping giant
22-03-2014, 11:59 PM
So many people saying "the players are ****", "the players aren't good enough" etc.

It's simply not true. There's something much deeper lying than that.

Which is what ?
IMO , we have the facilities , we have the manager , we have the coaches. Whats missing ?
Pay scale ?

Ronniekirk
23-03-2014, 12:00 AM
Can I ask what it is that makes you and a number of others think they know better than an experienced International player and a qualified coach? Never ceases to amaze me that one.
The fact we haven't won in our last 13 games surely must be a clue am not saying he won't turn out to be a good manager but he came in praising and building up confidence in handling Collins and drilled back four into keeping clean sheets with Craig scoring and us scoring from corners for fun He has now turned on these same players and it's clear the impact this has had .he could at least have waited a bit longer but he run out of Patience and players aren't playing for him and he threatens to drop them and doesn't .I would rather he did as these players are no longer playing for him or club in a way that is Professionally acceptable to us Fans

Northernhibee
23-03-2014, 12:00 AM
Which is what ?
IMO , we have the facilities , we have the manager , we have the coaches. Whats missing ?
Pay scale ?

If I knew that I'd be a rich man. It's the question as fans we should be demanding answers from the board about though, I'm certain of that.

Ronniekirk
23-03-2014, 12:02 AM
So many people saying "the players are ****", "the players aren't good enough" etc.

It's simply not true. There's something much deeper lying than that.
So you think there is a well ?

Ronniekirk
23-03-2014, 12:05 AM
Might be due to me being half cut but i cannot make out any sense of that table.
Whats it meant to say ?:confused:
We are poorest team according to recent form and it's hard to argue against that

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:10 AM
If I knew that I'd be a rich man. It's the question as fans we should be demanding answers from the board about though, I'm certain of that.

I am assuming you think that wages are an issue then (forgive me if my assumptions are off)
Thats the only thing the board could change.

We dont have the season ticket holders to indulge our fantasies .

I am 100% behind RP and the way he runs our club.

I was there at the HOH campaign and fully bought in Douglas Crombs visions that we would never be in that position again.
I witnessed JB kiising the hallowed turf and remember thinking , no matter what , i would always follow Hibs through thick and thin.
never in my mind did i think we would have a state of the art Stadium and trianing facilities.
I also think we have the perfect management team. We just need to give them the opportunity to get there message acrros.

Dont get me wrong . TB is not untouchable . Personally , i do not think he should have publicly stated that the players were ***** :greengrin

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:13 AM
We are poorest team according to recent form and it's hard to argue against that

Not arguing against that in the slightest. Just dont understand how that makes us safe unless im having a major whoosh moment.

HappyAsHellas
23-03-2014, 12:13 AM
Most of the players are good enough for survival, but not much else. We need a few quality players to come in and lift the entire squad. I firmly believe this will happen in the summer window. We're only a player or two away from being 2nd in the league. That is reality, and what I'm looking forward to.

Northernhibee
23-03-2014, 12:16 AM
I am assuming you think that wages are an issue then (forgive me if my assumptions are off)
Thats the only thing the board could change.

We dont have the season ticket holders to indulge our fantasies .

I am 100% behind RP and the way he runs our club.

I was there at the HOH campaign and fully bought in Douglas Crombs visions that we would never be in that position again.
I witnessed JB kiising the hallowed turf and remember thinking , no matter what , i would always follow Hibs through thick and thin.
never in my mind did i think we would have a state of the art Stadium and trianing facilities.
I also think we have the perfect management team. We just need to give them the opportunity to get there message acrros.

Dont get me wrong . TB is not untouchable . Personally , i do not think he should have publicly stated that the players were ***** :greengrin

I don't think it's wages either.

I'm not denying that the board have done good for the club in the past. I'm not sure if they're right for the clubs future now we're in a good position and need to focus on what's on the pitch.

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:17 AM
Most of the players are good enough for survival, but not much else. We need a few quality players to come in and lift the entire squad. I firmly believe this will happen in the summer window. We're only a player or two away from being 2nd in the league. That is reality, and what I'm looking forward to.

TBH ,
i quite agree with you. I really do think we will see a good few players arriving in the summer.

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:19 AM
I don't think it's wages either.

I'm not denying that the board have done good for the club in the past. I'm not sure if they're right for the clubs future now we're in a good position and need to focus on what's on the pitch.

Forgive me if im being thick but are you saying you believe its just down to the board financing higher wages ?

Northernhibee
23-03-2014, 12:27 AM
Forgive me if im being thick but are you saying you believe its just down to the board financing higher wages ?

No, I don't know what it is. But I don't think the problem with our club is the manager or the players.

We should be focusing our attention on getting an answer to the million dollar question though.

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:33 AM
No, I don't know what it is. But I don't think the problem with our club is the manager or the players.

We should be focusing our attention on getting an answer to the million dollar question though.

Right :greengrin So what is your guess then...
Stadium ...Check
Training Ground...Check
International multi capped , successful Manager ....Check
International multi capped Assistant manager ....Check
Decent players playing well for their old clubs ....check

The only thing left is finance.

HappyAsHellas
23-03-2014, 12:34 AM
There seems to be quite a lot of people starting to question the board just now, and I wonder why? I was one of RP's biggest critics a few years ago but I look across the road now and think thank christ the board had a bigger collective brain than me. Financially we are on a pretty sound footing, we have facilities and a stadium that is the envy of every club outside the OF, and I wonder now, I ask myself. Would the people who managed to bring all this for us, not realise that we might need a team to enhance the surroundings? - or were they simply putting the foundations down first? Give it a bit of time and I'm sure we will all reap the rewards. Starting next season.

OsloHibs
23-03-2014, 12:41 AM
The fact we haven't won in our last 13 games surely must be a clue am not saying he won't turn out to be a good manager but he came in praising and building up confidence in handling Collins and drilled back four into keeping clean sheets with Craig scoring and us scoring from corners for fun He has now turned on these same players and it's clear the impact this has had .he could at least have waited a bit longer but he run out of Patience and players aren't playing for him and he threatens to drop them and doesn't .I would rather he did as these players are no longer playing for him or club in a way that is Professionally acceptable to us Fans

Wonderful post.

truehibernian
23-03-2014, 12:45 AM
There seems to be quite a lot of people starting to question the board just now, and I wonder why? I was one of RP's biggest critics a few years ago but I look across the road now and think thank christ the board had a bigger collective brain than me. Financially we are on a pretty sound footing, we have facilities and a stadium that is the envy of every club outside the OF, and I wonder now, I ask myself. Would the people who managed to bring all this for us, not realise that we might need a team to enhance the surroundings? - or were they simply putting the foundations down first? Give it a bit of time and I'm sure we will all reap the rewards. Starting next season.

We signed Zoubir, Vine, Collins, Heffernan......could have had Lyle Taylor and Adam Rooney with Handling, Cummings and Caldwell as back up.

We signed Tudur Jones and Liam Craig......could have had Willo Flood.

Signed Nelson, let McManus and McCourt train for a week and then FO to other clubs.

Yep, I blame the Board. No ambition.

Hermit Crab
23-03-2014, 12:52 AM
Everyone that doesn't pull their weight in the squad out. New players in.

sleeping giant
23-03-2014, 12:53 AM
Everyone that doesn't pull their weight in the squad out. New players in.

You just in from the peeve ?:greengrin

GreenOnions
23-03-2014, 01:16 AM
We signed Zoubir, Vine, Collins, Heffernan......could have had Lyle Taylor and Adam Rooney with Handling, Cummings and Caldwell as back up.

We signed Tudur Jones and Liam Craig......could have had Willo Flood.

Signed Nelson, let McManus and McCourt train for a week and then FO to other clubs.

Yep, I blame the Board. No ambition.

Although I don't believe we ever had a chance of signing McCourt this has always been the frustrating thing with Hibs. Apart from a short spell when McLeish was at ER (eg with John O'Neil) we NEVER succeed in bringing players to ER when they are also sought by Aberdeen or Hearts.

Ending up with the likes of Michael Nelson, Fraser Mullen and Rowan Vine in our first starting eleven of the season - after about five minutes of the match I just couldn't believe how we'd signed players like that. Also - I don't think Callum Booth was ever as bad as Ryan McGivern or the "new Roberto Carlos" - in fact despite some errors defensively he showed a lot of promise and yet he was banished from the first team and then from the club before you could even blink.

I think we need to give some of our players a break though - they will be much better when they have better players around them.

I think Forster (as a centre back), Hanlon, Thomson, Robertson, Stanton, Craig and Harris are definitely players we should be keeping if we can and I woudn't be unhappy if they were all in a first team. I think Lewis Stevenson is also a good player to have around the squad and I hear positive things about some of our other youngsters.

As far as I'm concerned though that means that Nelson, McGivern, McPake, Taiwo, Cairney, Tudur-Jones, Heffernan, Caldwell, Handling and Collins should go if they are out of contract or if we can move them on.

rcarter1
23-03-2014, 01:30 AM
We signed Zoubir, Vine, Collins, Heffernan......could have had Lyle Taylor and Adam Rooney with Handling, Cummings and Caldwell as back up.

We signed Tudur Jones and Liam Craig......could have had Willo Flood.

Signed Nelson, let McManus and McCourt train for a week and then FO to other clubs.

Yep, I blame the Board. No ambition.

The McManus situation was interesting. Politely he decided to choose a smaller club (and wage?) for some reason. How many other players have looked at Hibs and chosen a rival of equal or lesser size?

I would really like (but don't expect) to hear a range of honest views from current and ex players/staff. Particularly if they can compare with other clubs in Scotland. I never hear the honest opinions of people on the inside. Ive stopped watching the Hibs interactive interviews because they often come across a bit cagey or defensive. Some of the interviews allude to divisions within the squad. This is perhaps not surprising as there has been little continuity in personel. Our players sound like defensive individuals trying not to say the wrong things to the fans, but almost no belief comes through. Its been like this for years.

I just hope that Butcher can punt enough of our current squad to enable a total rehaul of the mood/atmosphere/team spirit.

blackpoolhibs
23-03-2014, 01:40 AM
I've already given you my answer. But you keep choosing to ignore it. If I had any hard evidence as to what the problem actually is, I would present it.

So basically you dont have a ****in clue?

I haven't said anything about a lack of finanical backing concerning our recent managers. I don't think finances are a problem at all.

But you dont give any other reason except meddling from above, but cant state any facts to back it up?

I "suspect" that their may be an issue regarding attitudes further up in the club and that it's filtering down to staff and players effecting performance throughout the club, regardless of replacements. But I have no hard evidence to back this up, it just seems logical to suspect this, considering the board are the lowest common denominator in all of this.

Again you say you suspect there may be an issue further up, but cant tell us just what it is. Well done, i suspect someone is working you from behind, but i cant tell who it is but thats the lowest common denominator in my book?

What if Butcher brings in his own players and nothing changes? Will it still be down to an endless stream of rubbish managers and players? Or will you ever begin to suspect that there may be another issue at hand?

Well if butcher ****s it up, you will have another few weeks of making up some bull**** to make your opinion:faf: sound feasible.

Throw enough **** and some of it will stick, that is your way of trying to make a point.

Bobby's Cinema
23-03-2014, 08:53 AM
Most of the players are good enough for survival, but not much else. We need a few quality players to come in and lift the entire squad. I firmly believe this will happen in the summer window. We're only a player or two away from being 2nd in the league. That is reality, and what I'm looking forward to.
I'm afraid the gap between us and an Aberdeen/DundeeUtd/Motherwell is a lot LOT bigger than you think, despite the possibility of losing some of their better players in the summer.

Ronniekirk
23-03-2014, 09:43 AM
I'm afraid the gap between us and an Aberdeen/DundeeUtd/Motherwell is a lot LOT bigger than you think, despite the possibility of losing some of their better players in the summer.
But this is the nub of the issue and the chicken and egg remove Aberdeen from equation as there board has been just as bad at picking managers than ours .But the other two have managed to with the odd exception ( like Jim Gannon at Motherwell ) choose the right manager ,have a youth policy and scouting system and coaches that brings through regularly first team players that cement there place in first team They know who they are losing and bring in like for like Higdon goes bring in Sutton .Daley goes bring in The big guy that scored the goal against Hearts .well loose fast winger with pace who chips in with goals bring in Ainsworth . The manager and back room are same but having key people that know their job provides the continuity and these players come in and know where they are playing and in what system and they maintain top six .
We have chopped and changed ,had to bring in assistant managers to try and shore up the manager .Reintroduced. Scouting system that had been allowed to lapse .
If we believe the current Management team is the right one then we have to give them the three years of contract but at some point have an eye on who would succeed them eg Jackie McNamara if he continues to do well at United .If we need to pay to get the right people in we need to do that .
But we can't underestimate the mess that had has been made of our club over the past seven years and we have a Reputation to rebuild .Aberdeen are just now embarking on that ,and you can see see how it's galvanising them and their supporters ,so Rooney was always going to pick them over us even if we did offer permanent contract IMO .However the fact we didn't offer a Permanent deal was a mistake as you can see what he would bring to us .My point is that the Board Panic at times and didn't get Leigh when they could of as it would have been an investment even if we had to shell out £ 500,000 it was obvious we would recoup that Pissing about upping bids and losing out on Lyle Taylor if he was managers no 1 choice was another example However they then go and back the Manager at end of a Transfer window in a panic and we end up with Collins who you now couldn't give away .The board see that and then don't want to part with more cash given our tight financial structure.
So we need to look at what these teams have done right as the blue print is there for us to see but do we have right Board Members to bring this about .Its not stadiums and training facilities as nice as they are to have .Its the right people with the right skill sets ,be it manager coaches scouts psychologist physio etc .If we get those Foundations right we can build a team and then tinker with it each transfer window .But when we don't we see these wholesale squad clearances that can't be engineered without making players unhappy ,and then being left with some of them in squad
So summer is part one of this Transformational change that needs to take place at our club and fans who go to meetings with board need to articulate the vision and passion we have for the club to find a way the Board can support this Petrie has admitted failings but what are Board doing to learn lessons and ensure we don't keep making these same mistakes .

Tyler Durden
23-03-2014, 09:56 AM
:agree: could have turned it from a betting pencil into a mega-dobber to borrow from the Arctic Monkeys.

The actual lyric is "Mecca dauber" as in a bingo magic marker. Not a mega dobber! Took me a while to work that out too.

Hermit Crab
23-03-2014, 10:08 AM
You just in from the peeve ?:greengrin

No. Just in after working a ten hour back shift.

emerald green
23-03-2014, 10:24 AM
Here's my problem with the "the players aren't good enough" argument, I'll take a standardish starting XI from this season:

Ben Williams - Ex Man Utd youth, won player of the year awards before, definately good enough

Jordan Forster - Inconsistency to be expected being young but has played at RB and CB before so should be good enough
Michael Nelson - A decent leader and has played well at SPL level before.
Paul Hanlon - Former Scotland U21s captain and arguably our best player
Ryan McGivern - Performed well at Championship level, ex Man City youth

Paul Cairney - Took a step up a couple of seasons back but has chipped in with assists
Scott Robertson - Experienced SPL central midfielder and has played at Championship level
Kevin Thomson - Played in European competition, Scotland international, championship level
Alex Harris - Pacey and showed last year he's capable of very good things

James Collins - Goal machine down south, scored four in a game despite coming on as a sub with twenty-five minutes to go
Paul Heffernan - Experienced, proven SPL player

Even some subs - Rowan Vine - experienced, proven SPL player who has racked up a seven figure amount in transfer figures in the past, Tom Taiwo who is good and tidy, Alan Maybury - good, experienced SPL defender etc. etc. etc.

I don't buy into this idea that the team isn't good enough and I don't buy into the idea that the manager isn't good enough at all.

So, if as you claim, these players ARE good enough, why do they perform so badly week after week? It's not just this group of players either. It's been like this for years under several different managers/coaches. It just backs up the theory that there are serious deep-seated problems at our club.

blackpoolhibs
23-03-2014, 10:46 AM
So, if as you claim, these players ARE good enough, why do they perform so badly week after week? It's not just this group of players either. It's been like this for years under several different managers/coaches. It just backs up the theory that there are serious deep-seated problems at our club.

What are these deep seated problems, nobody seems to be able to answer this question other than throw in the odd gem like meddling from above.

Then when you ask who and what meddling is being done, you never get an answer to that either? :confused:

Was there meddling ar aberdeen while they were as poor as us, although it must be a good type of meddling they are getting at the moment, or is it just the introduction of a decent manager who's identified some decent players and moulded them into a decent team?

rcarter1
23-03-2014, 11:00 AM
What are these deep seated problems, nobody seems to be able to answer this question other than throw in the odd gem like meddling from above.

Then when you ask who and what meddling is being done, you never get an answer to that either? :confused:

Was there meddling ar aberdeen while they were as poor as us, although it must be a good type of meddling they are getting at the moment, or is it just the introduction of a decent manager who's identified some decent players and moulded them into a decent team?

I would like to get some players/explayers from the last 7 years, and under the influence of sodium pentobarbital, ask them what has been going on. John Rankin always seems keen to put the boot into us, so he would be my first choice. I think the deep seated problem is that the club has been on the back foot for 5 or 6 years, and the fans, players, management and everyone else have developed a collective anxiety.

One good whole hearted clean out is my hope for a revival.

gegs70
23-03-2014, 11:12 AM
We need to get back to the team that beat hearts in January....however confidence is low and getting lower every time they lose!

Maybe we need to do something different, a 5-3-2, 5-4-1aim for the draw but hope to steal the game?

emerald green
23-03-2014, 11:23 AM
What are these deep seated problems, nobody seems to be able to answer this question other than throw in the odd gem like meddling from above.

Then when you ask who and what meddling is being done, you never get an answer to that either? :confused:

Was there meddling ar aberdeen while they were as poor as us, although it must be a good type of meddling they are getting at the moment, or is it just the introduction of a decent manager who's identified some decent players and moulded them into a decent team?

I agree with you, nobody is able to answer this question. Certainly not on these forums anyway. I have said elsewhere that I don't have the answers. I don't even claim that any "meddling" is going on, as I simply don't know. Fans, who have the best interests of the club at heart, can only offer their views and opinions as to what the cause of the malaise at HFC actually is. Presumably you will agree that all is not well at HFC? You ask "what are these deep seated problems"? For what it's worth, I'll put in my tuppence worth here again. There has been a succession of poor managerial appointments over several years, especially Calderwood & Fenlon. (The jury is still out on TB & I wish him all the luck in the world turning things around. He will need it IMO). Many of the signings made over recent years and to date have simply not been good enough, allied to numerous loan signings who time & again prove to be well below the level required to compete successfully at this level. Is this because the budget is set at such a level, by the board, that's all HFC can afford or are willing to pay? There has been no stability at the club for years now. IMO there also seems to be a lack of drive, ambition, and leadership at the club. Both on and off the pitch. I'll again exclude TB from this last bit. A losing culture now exists at the club. Our record at home over recent seasons, for a club of our stature, has been a disgrace. Maybe fans groups could sit down and speak to STF & the board about all this, but I presume that's been done before? I'm not so arrogant that I claim to know it all and have all the answers to the problems at the club. These are just my opinions. I just want my club, whom I have supported all my life, to be better than what it is just now, and for once to realise its true potential, as I'm sure every other supporter does too.

wills
23-03-2014, 11:24 AM
I feel that we don't have any leaders on the park, too many wishing to pass the buck. Get rid of some of the journey men, use there wages to invest in 2/3 quality players through the middle of the park who will guide and develope the younger players around. We've never had a true leader since Sauze

sean
23-03-2014, 11:44 AM
When the butcher appointment came about I was very worried. He had good success with an Inverness club who have never ever achieved anything, was average at Motherwell and dire at Brentford etc.

What ever you think of butcher good or bad he has made some god awful decisions:

Told Taiwo and Thomson they weren't his kind of players and don't expect to play.

Gets rid of Scott Thomson the goalie coach, who to my knowledge is down in England 3 days a week leaving Ben Williams to take goal keeping practice.

Undermind hibs under 20s coach James mcdonaugh on several occasions.

Made Liam Craig (proven SPL box to box goal scorer) captain then leave him on the bench most weeks.

Now people can argue all they want with these points but it's my opinion, guys like butcher work well at small clubs, picking up lower league players and making them hard to beat, that hibs squad should perform a lot better and it's upto the management to get the best out the players.

All this talk about the players not giving a **** etc? Why would they ? Some have been told they won't be here next season and are just picking up a pay cheque toll the end .
Sure most of us have all done that in our jobs at some point.
It was a risky move by butcher slating players and telling them too move on early doors and it's back firing as we now have a team in free fall.

3pm
23-03-2014, 11:46 AM
When the butcher appointment came about I was very worried. He had good success with an Inverness club who have never ever achieved anything, was average at Motherwell and dire at Brentford etc.

What ever you think of butcher good or bad he has made some god awful decisions:

Told Taiwo and Thomson they weren't his kind of players and don't expect to play.

Gets rid of Scott Thomson the goalie coach, who to my knowledge is down in England 3 days a week leaving Ben Williams to take goal keeping practice.

Undermind hibs under 20s coach James mcdonaugh on several occasions.

Made Liam Craig (proven SPL box to box goal scorer) captain then leave him on the bench most weeks.

Now people can argue all they want with these points but it's my opinion, guys like butcher work well at small clubs, picking up lower league players and making them hard to beat, that hibs squad should perform a lot better and it's upto the management to get the best out the players.

All this talk about the players not giving a **** etc? Why would they ? Some have been told they won't be here next season and are just picking up a pay cheque toll the end .
Sure most of us have all done that in our jobs at some point.
It was a risky move by butcher slating players and telling them too move on early doors and it's back firing as we now have a team in free fall.

Are you sure about those bits in bold?

rcarter1
23-03-2014, 11:47 AM
When the butcher appointment came about I was very worried. He had good success with an Inverness club who have never ever achieved anything, was average at Motherwell and dire at Brentford etc.

What ever you think of butcher good or bad he has made some god awful decisions:

Told Taiwo and Thomson they weren't his kind of players and don't expect to play.

Gets rid of Scott Thomson the goalie coach, who to my knowledge is down in England 3 days a week leaving Ben Williams to take goal keeping practice.

Undermind hibs under 20s coach James mcdonaugh on several occasions.

Made Liam Craig (proven SPL box to box goal scorer) captain then leave him on the bench most weeks.

Now people can argue all they want with these points but it's my opinion, guys like butcher work well at small clubs, picking up lower league players and making them hard to beat, that hibs squad should perform a lot better and it's upto the management to get the best out the players.

All this talk about the players not giving a **** etc? Why would they ? Some have been told they won't be here next season and are just picking up a pay cheque toll the end .
Sure most of us have all done that in our jobs at some point.
It was a risky move by butcher slating players and telling them too move on early doors and it's back firing as we now have a team in free fall.


This. Its either a deliberate and carefully thought through plan, or it he is losing his cool already.

sean
23-03-2014, 12:03 PM
For me the reason the club struggles time and time again is the fact that there is no real Club Identity anymore.

For the last 5 years we have had managers who have not fitted the mild of what the club stands for, now it was meant to always be fast flowing, attractive football. Thats been totally and utterly lost.

The club doesn't seem to have a set of values or an ethos of what it really stands for or believes in, Call me fantisful if you like but shouldn't a club our size dictate the ethos and values to the manager when he is appointed? or all that happens is we go round and round in circles appointing new managers with new ideas and new players while the results stay the same.

Secondly why do we have a youth section? whats its actually really doing in the cold light of day? i don't know how many youth teams Hibernian have but they are all taught to play a different style and a different way right up too senior level where they are taught to play another completley different way again, surely the club again would either be better by having a genuine brand of football all the way through making the transition to senior football 10 times easier for younger players OR scrap youth football, saves thousands and just bring players in on loan like we do every season.


I dont blame Terry Butcher for this, i blame the head of the club for having a lack of direction, ethos and core values which defines any organisation. It has been lost in the last 6-8 years of constant mismanagement and turmoil with no solid foundation.

AK86
23-03-2014, 12:34 PM
Most of the players are good enough for survival, but not much else. We need a few quality players to come in and lift the entire squad. I firmly believe this will happen in the summer window. We're only a player or two away from being 2nd in the league. That is reality, and what I'm looking forward to.
That will be Messi and Ronaldo then.:rolleyes:

Kaiser1962
23-03-2014, 12:43 PM
It was a risky move by butcher slating players and telling them too move on early doors and it's back firing as we now have a team in free fall.

I hope for their sake they don't read Hibs Net.

Onion
23-03-2014, 12:47 PM
Most of the players are good enough for survival, but not much else. We need a few quality players to come in and lift the entire squad. I firmly believe this will happen in the summer window. We're only a player or two away from being 2nd in the league. That is reality, and what I'm looking forward to.

Are you serious ? Even Butcher thinks we need a major clear-out of all the deadwood lying around ER. We are 7 or 8 players from being a top 6 side and a new Board and owner away from being 2nd.

Onion
23-03-2014, 12:57 PM
The McManus situation was interesting. Politely he decided to choose a smaller club (and wage?) for some reason. How many other players have looked at Hibs and chosen a rival of equal or lesser size?

I would really like (but don't expect) to hear a range of honest views from current and ex players/staff. Particularly if they can compare with other clubs in Scotland. I never hear the honest opinions of people on the inside. Ive stopped watching the Hibs interactive interviews because they often come across a bit cagey or defensive. Some of the interviews allude to divisions within the squad. This is perhaps not surprising as there has been little continuity in personel. Our players sound like defensive individuals trying not to say the wrong things to the fans, but almost no belief comes through. Its been like this for years.

I just hope that Butcher can punt enough of our current squad to enable a total rehaul of the mood/atmosphere/team spirit.

Butcher arrived with bags of spirit, hope and enthusiasm and that's now been well and truly knocked out of him. There must be some concern that things gets much worse before they get better, that the fans start to turn on him (his tactics, team selection, new buys etc) or he becomes frustrated and disillusioned with ER and decides to walk.

AK86
23-03-2014, 01:07 PM
I hope for their sake they don't read Hibs Net.
I'd be surprised if any of them care enough to check out a hibs website.

rcarter1
23-03-2014, 01:09 PM
Butcher arrived with bags of spirit, hope and enthusiasm and that's now been well and truly knocked out of him. There must be some concern that things gets much worse before they get better, that the fans start to turn on him (his tactics, team selection, new buys etc) or he becomes frustrated and disillusioned with ER and decides to walk.

True. Which is why the season couldn't end soon enough! A summer rehaul :pray: will be Butchers big throw of the dice in the job. I don't think he will throw in the towel until then.

Onion
23-03-2014, 01:19 PM
I agree with you, nobody is able to answer this question. Certainly not on these forums anyway. I have said elsewhere that I don't have the answers. I don't even claim that any "meddling" is going on, as I simply don't know. Fans, who have the best interests of the club at heart, can only offer their views and opinions as to what the cause of the malaise at HFC actually is. Presumably you will agree that all is not well at HFC? You ask "what are these deep seated problems"? For what it's worth, I'll put in my tuppence worth here again. There has been a succession of poor managerial appointments over several years, especially Calderwood & Fenlon. (The jury is still out on TB & I wish him all the luck in the world turning things around. He will need it IMO). Many of the signings made over recent years and to date have simply not been good enough, allied to numerous loan signings who time & again prove to be well below the level required to compete successfully at this level. Is this because the budget is set at such a level, by the board, that's all HFC can afford or are willing to pay? There has been no stability at the club for years now. IMO there also seems to be a lack of drive, ambition, and leadership at the club. Both on and off the pitch. I'll again exclude TB from this last bit. A losing culture now exists at the club. Our record at home over recent seasons, for a club of our stature, has been a disgrace. Maybe fans groups could sit down and speak to STF & the board about all this, but I presume that's been done before? I'm not so arrogant that I claim to know it all and have all the answers to the problems at the club. These are just my opinions. I just want my club, whom I have supported all my life, to be better than what it is just now, and for once to realise its true potential, as I'm sure every other supporter does too.

Great post. Anyone looking from the outside in can see there is "something" badly wrong at the club beyond the poor selection of managers. The evidence is overwhelming. Yet, how often in the last 2 or 3 years has the Board even acknowledged this ? How much more reassured would we all be if they came out with a statement recognising the team's underperformance, expressing a desire to do something about it (other than rotating the manager every 18 months) and outlining the club's ambition or targets ?

Fact is the only time we hear from Petrie and the Board is when they change manager or want our money. Given our owner never says a thing, this is a disgrace. So, in absence of any communication from the Board, we are left to make our own conclusions which comprise :

they don't think there's a problem
they can't identify the problem(s)
they don't know what they're doing
they are crap at what they're doing
they don't care (just give us money)

Eyrie
23-03-2014, 01:33 PM
The problems are with the first team squad, which is the responsibility of the manager - unless posters are suggesting that the board should be overruling him about how to manage.

The board's responsibilities are to keep the club on an even financial footing (pass marks), build and maintain the infrastructure (pass marks), appoint a good manager (repeated failure) and give that appointed manager financial backing (pass marks).

What I want to see from the board is a public stating of our targets - to me it is reasonable to state that in a five year period we should be in two cup finals and win one, and finish no lower than fourth at least four times (allows for one poor season). Looking at the rest of Scottish football that is achievable with the right manager because, outwith the Ugly Sisters, only Aberdeen have a comparable budget to ourselves so the key is spending that budget on the right players for a balanced squad. Until proven otherwise, I have faith that Butcher will assemble such a squad.

That only leaves a strong youth set up, and we have a good one at the moment. The first team manager should have no involvement in the youth set up because his focus is on the short term needs of the first team squad and the focus for the youths has to be their long term development as both players and people.

blackpoolhibs
23-03-2014, 01:54 PM
I agree with you, nobody is able to answer this question. Certainly not on these forums anyway. I have said elsewhere that I don't have the answers. I don't even claim that any "meddling" is going on, as I simply don't know.

Fans, who have the best interests of the club at heart, can only offer their views and opinions as to what the cause of the malaise at HFC actually is. Presumably you will agree that all is not well at HFC? You ask "what are these deep seated problems"? For what it's worth, I'll put in my tuppence worth here again. There has been a succession of poor managerial appointments over several years, especially Calderwood & Fenlon.

:agree:

(The jury is still out on TB & I wish him all the luck in the world turning things around. He will need it IMO). Many of the signings made over recent years and to date have simply not been good enough, allied to numerous loan signings who time & again prove to be well below the level required to compete successfully at this level. Is this because the budget is set at such a level, by the board, that's all HFC can afford or are willing to pay?

I'd say our budget is better than most, but others use theirs much better than we do.

There has been no stability at the club for years now. IMO there also seems to be a lack of drive, ambition, and leadership at the club. Both on and off the pitch. I'll again exclude TB from this last bit. A losing culture now exists at the club. Our record at home over recent seasons, for a club of our stature, has been a disgrace.

:agree:

Maybe fans groups could sit down and speak to STF & the board about all this, but I presume that's been done before? I'm not so arrogant that I claim to know it all and have all the answers to the problems at the club. These are just my opinions. I just want my club, whom I have supported all my life, to be better than what it is just now, and for once to realise its true potential, as I'm sure every other supporter does too.

Well said. :agree:

Weir7
23-03-2014, 02:26 PM
Was interested to hear him say he was "pleased with our Diamond set up" when all I could see was a midfield struggling to work out where they were playing (mostly due to a lack of footballing brain) full backs were given no support as no one was really playing ahead of them, McGivern was victim of this mostly.

And how Heffernan played the full game i'll never understand. The mans a passenger.

I support Butcher but today I think he got a few things wrong.

For me once again butcher got his tactics wrong. Narrow midfield resulted infull backs getting ripped

Mcgivern cant defend so he needs all the help he can get. Tawio was ment to attack but kept going backwards.

Butcher did nothing to fix these issues during the game.

For me I have major doubts about him.

ancient hibee
23-03-2014, 02:55 PM
The problem at the club is the team.The problem about the team is-and has been-that for a number of years there has been no solid core of senior players.Look at Man.u-I know a different stratosphere-but against Olympiakos the senior players turned up and did the job.We haven't had that since the Sauzee/Latapy/Jack era.Mowbray's spell coincided with the influx of good youngsters but that's not what sustains a club.

s.a.m
23-03-2014, 03:02 PM
The problem at the club is the team.The problem about the team is-and has been-that for a number of years there has been no solid core of senior players.Look at Man.u-I know a different stratosphere-but against Olympiakos the senior players turned up and did the job.We haven't had that since the Sauzee/Latapy/Jack era.Mowbray's spell coincided with the influx of good youngsters but that's not what sustains a club.


I think you've got a good point there.

emerald green
23-03-2014, 04:11 PM
Well said. :agree:

Cheers pal. GGTTH

Centre Hawf
23-03-2014, 05:35 PM
For me once again butcher got his tactics wrong. Narrow midfield resulted infull backs getting ripped

Mcgivern cant defend so he needs all the help he can get. Tawio was ment to attack but kept going backwards.

Butcher did nothing to fix these issues during the game.

For me I have major doubts about him.

Exactly this. He doesn't need a new squad or 18 months to learn when something needs reshuffling.

Ronniekirk
23-03-2014, 11:27 PM
Wonderful post.

You obviously haven't read some of my others . you are lucky to live in Oslo makes it hard to get to Easter Road to watch this lot .:wink:

Russ
24-03-2014, 04:30 AM
The fact we haven't won in our last 13 games surely must be a clue am not saying he won't turn out to be a good manager but he came in praising and building up confidence in handling Collins and drilled back four into keeping clean sheets with Craig scoring and us scoring from corners for fun He has now turned on these same players and it's clear the impact this has had .he could at least have waited a bit longer but he run out of Patience and players aren't playing for him and he threatens to drop them and doesn't .I would rather he did as these players are no longer playing for him or club in a way that is Professionally acceptable to us Fans

You don't even come close to answering my question. Butcher more than anyone knows what he has to do, and certainly more than the fans.

Nailrod
24-03-2014, 05:21 AM
Why haven't any of the players we've signed in the last several years made much of an impact in the SPFL that we've signed?

According to you, it's because they've all been *****. You'd rather believe that the club have had 60+ problems over the last several years, rather than look into the possibility of 1 problem that has affected 60+ players.

Surely the 2nd possibility has to be viewed as the more rational one?I think over the past 7 years you could comfortably double that number and then add some.

Nailrod
24-03-2014, 05:52 AM
Great post. Anyone looking from the outside in can see there is "something" badly wrong at the club beyond the poor selection of managers. The evidence is overwhelming. Yet, how often in the last 2 or 3 years has the Board even acknowledged this ? How much more reassured would we all be if they came out with a statement recognising the team's underperformance, expressing a desire to do something about it (other than rotating the manager every 18 months) and outlining the club's ambition or targets ?

Fact is the only time we hear from Petrie and the Board is when they change manager or want our money. Given our owner never says a thing, this is a disgrace. So, in absence of any communication from the Board, we are left to make our own conclusions which comprise :

they don't think there's a problem
they can't identify the problem(s)
they don't know what they're doing
they are crap at what they're doing
they don't care (just give us money) I'm willing to have a go too.

The issue isn't 'meddling from above'. It's exactly the opposite. We have a Board stuffed with anonymous journeymen - just like the team. A Board devoid of anything resembling ambition. A Board devoid of any character or spirit. A Board devoid of ideas. A Board with an unblemished 7-year-long record of utter failure when it comes to putting a decent team on the park, who never seem to call themselves into question. A Board who clearly have absolutely nothing to contribute in terms of support on the footballing side. A Board who seem to serve no other purpose than to surround our glorious leader with obedient acolytes.

Is there a single one of them who has ever come out in public with anything exciting or inspiring in all the years they've been in their positions?

Ronniekirk
24-03-2014, 08:35 AM
You don't even come close to answering my question. Butcher more than anyone knows what he has to do, and certainly more than the fans.
I will take your word for it .My point is simply that he had the team playing in a way that was grinding out results and keeping us within his stated aim of top six .All of a sudden he seemed to change his management style ( or loose his patience ) and the supportive positive praising statements for players stopped and we then had tinkering with the team and this coincided with complete form slump.We don't know if he had continued praising and talking up players if that same slump might still have happened but he has to accept his share of the blame .
We all know we need a complete clear out bar a few but we also know from January window it isn't just as easy as that so some of the players he would like to go he could be stuck with and may still have to play and some of his targets might not want to come to Hibs for whatever reason and just now it's easy to see why we do struggle to get out top targets .
Like others I am hoping our fortunes change next season .He brought his own psychologist with him to club ,so man management and finding out what makes certain players tick was part of what I thought he was bringing to the club

Nailrod
24-03-2014, 08:38 AM
I will take your word for it .My point is simply that he had the team playing in a way that was grinding out results and keeping us within his stated aim of top six .All of a sudden he seemed to change his management style ( or loose his patience ) and the supportive positive praising statements for players stopped and we then had tinkering with the team and this coincided with complete form slump.I'm completely baffled by what happened. I wonder if he tore into the players after they lost the two-goal lead against Dundee United, and it backfired.

Ronniekirk
24-03-2014, 08:55 AM
I'm completely baffled by what happened. I wonder if he tore into the players after they lost the two-goal lead against Dundee United, and it backfired.
He made the wrong substitutions which contributed to us not being able to hold the ball up front and gave them the confidence to attack and go for it as we got deeper. yep he wasn't pleased after the match so that is a possibility it was first time they had witnessed him losing it. he and Malpas talk a lot about mental strength in players .Whether they had been working with certain players on that and assessed they just didn't have it .or whether he felt they would maybe respond to his outburst I don't know but he has referred recently on a few occasions to having been let down buy players so don't see how he can now get things back on track .However I note he did talk up the diamond formation after st Johnstone game so maybe he will try sticking with this and trying to get a team playing that system and go back to his former style to see if that gets us a few results But he wears his heart on his sleeve and maybe he needs to work with his own psychologist to learn to button his lip or at least follow through with his threats as hollow words are dangerous in that staff then loose respect for a manager if that goes you don't win it back quickly .
On the other hand he may feel we can't get dragged into playoffs and he is going to continue with that style to see who can handle it and show him that mental toughness he is looking for .If they don't then they don't feature next season provided he can get the players he wants in and therein could be another potential source of frustration for him .Interesting time ahead that's for sure and we certainly need something radical to halt over seven year cycle .

Jones28
24-03-2014, 01:41 PM
No ambition in the boardroom.
Very little talent in the dressing room.
No confidence on the pitch.
Frustration in the stands.