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greenforgo
22-03-2014, 04:37 PM
Why with all the managers we have had over the years cant any of them sort out our defensive problems....SHOCKING

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 04:38 PM
I said it in another thread, the manager is just the face.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 04:39 PM
I said it in another thread, the manager is just the face.

Does it fit?

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 04:40 PM
I said it in another thread, the manager is just the face.

This is it.

The rot has long set in at the club.

Beefster
22-03-2014, 04:41 PM
If Mourinho or Ferguson were having to make do with the likes of Nelson and McGivern, they wouldn't be able to fix their defence out either.

greenforgo
22-03-2014, 04:41 PM
I said it in another thread, the manager is just the face. But for some reason we have had this problem for years with all different players...its getting ridiculous now.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 04:44 PM
But for some reason we have had this problem for years with all different players...its getting ridiculous now.

That's my point. We have a problem that no new manager or set of players can fix.

Broken Gnome
22-03-2014, 04:46 PM
That's my point. We have a problem that no new manager or set of players can fix.

What is it?

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 04:46 PM
If Mourinho or Ferguson were having to make do with the likes of Nelson and McGivern, they wouldn't be able to fix their defence out either.

I refuse to believe that Nelson or McGivern are bad footballers, McGivern in particular I've seen play very well before. There's something wrong at our club - it's not at playing level or with the manager, I firmly believe that. We need to change the culture at our club overall IMO.

Magnifique
22-03-2014, 04:48 PM
That's my point. We have a problem that no new manager or set of players can fix.

It has to be an attitude issue amongst the players which is why we MUST empty 90 per cent of them and start again. What else could it be?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 04:49 PM
What is it?

If I knew, i'd gladly share it with all of you.

But i'm sure you know yourself that a new set of players still won't change anything. It never does.

NORTHERNHIBBY
22-03-2014, 04:50 PM
Decent players seems to come to our club and then come down to level we already have rather than the existing players taking a thought and, fearing for their places, get the finger out.

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 04:51 PM
It has to be an attitude issue amongst the players which is why we MUST empty 90 per cent of them and start again. What else could it be?

And what keeps causing attitude problems at the club despite several changes in personnel on the pitch?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 04:51 PM
It has to be an attitude issue amongst the players which is why we MUST empty 90 per cent of them and start again. What else could it be?

But it doesn't matter who we bring in and how many clear outs we have, the attitudes still stink. Isn't it possible that there's an attitude problem futher up in the club and thats somehow rubbing off onto the players themselves?

Magnifique
22-03-2014, 04:56 PM
But it doesn't matter who we bring in and how many clear outs we have, the attitudes still stink. Isn't it possible that there's an attitude problem futher up in the club and thats somehow rubbing off onto the players themselves?



Yes possibly but who? Why has nobody identified the problem.

I think the attitude is a player thing, I think it has been ongoing for years and a succession of managers hasn't sorted it out so it goes from squad to squad. That is why I would empty the Lot of them except Stanton and maybe Harris but the rest get them oot

HIBERNIAN-0762
22-03-2014, 04:57 PM
I seriously don't think we will win another game this season.

As I've said with Butcher, a commanding center half in his day simply cannot seem to get any response with his knowledge yet continues to play these duds, get them to **** next week and get the youngsters in at the back, surely cannot be any worse than this garbage.

Oh well no tin on now...:wink:

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 04:57 PM
Yes possibly but who? Why has nobody identified the problem.

I think the attitude is a player thing, I think it has been ongoing for years and a succession of managers hasn't sorted it out so it goes from squad to squad. That is why I would empty the Lot of them except Stanton and maybe Harris but the rest get them oot

And then the problem would still continue. You're not looking high up enough.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:02 PM
Yes possibly but who? Why has nobody identified the problem.

Because nobody knows without a shadow of a doubt exactly what the problem is. But if you make any suggestions on here as to what you think it may be, you get shot down in flames.


I think the attitude is a player thing, I think it has been ongoing for years and a succession of managers hasn't sorted it out so it goes from squad to squad. That is why I would empty the Lot of them except Stanton and maybe Harris but the rest get them oot

The fact that every manager that has come through the door over the past several years has failed to change the attitude, would suggest that they too are suffering from the same infection.

inglisavhibs
22-03-2014, 05:06 PM
Why with all the managers we have had over the years cant any of them sort out our defensive problems....SHOCKING
Why pick on the defence. We are shambolic in every area of the park. We are not safe yet and on current form I think we are the worst team in the league. I don,t think the current set of players can lift themselves and get out of this rut so it's possible we won't win another game this season. Too many know they will be gone at the end of the season and it shows on the park. I wasn't at the game today but it sounded like more of the same. Now we have a derby to look forward to with the two worst teams in the league. Nobody can be confident of a result, that's for sure.

truehibernian
22-03-2014, 05:06 PM
How many top 6 sides play a centre half at right back ? There my friend is your answer - shambles of a signing window in summer and in January hence we now shuffle a rotten pack of dud cards.

Still, the Boardroom was like a 'war bunker' according to Terry - Petrie saving his ammo until the very last minute then realising there's no decent target to aim for !

Hibs = unambitious = more concerned with

truehibernian
22-03-2014, 05:07 PM
More concerned with survival....

Saorsa
22-03-2014, 05:07 PM
Because nobody knows without a shadow of a doubt exactly what the problem is. But if you make any suggestions on here as to what you think it may be, you get shot down in flames.



The fact that every manager that has come through the door over the past several years has failed to change the attitude, would suggest that they too are suffering from the same infection.Is that infection called the Malaise?

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 05:09 PM
How many top 6 sides play a centre half at right back ? There my friend is your answer - shambles of a signing window in summer and in January hence we now shuffle a rotten pack of dud cards.

Still, the Boardroom was like a 'war bunker' according to Terry - Petrie saving his ammo until the very last minute then realising there's no decent target to aim for !

Hibs = unambitious = more concerned with

I thought that everyone was calling for Forster to be moved to RB on here for a while and also that he reminded people of Whittaker in the first few games under TB.

BH Hibs
22-03-2014, 05:10 PM
Why with all the managers we have had over the years cant any of them sort out our defensive problems....SHOCKING

Possibly because good defenders don't come cheap and we won't go the extra mile to pay for one

truehibernian
22-03-2014, 05:11 PM
I thought that everyone was calling for Forster to be moved to RB on here for a while and also that he reminded people of Whittaker in the first few games under TB.

He's the best centre half at the club, has been for 2 years even when not in first team - that says it all.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:13 PM
I thought that everyone was calling for Forster to be moved to RB on here for a while and also that he reminded people of Whittaker in the first few games under TB.

It's strange. With just about every manager that has came in, the players have stepped up for several games and got good results in the process. Then they hit that dreaded brick wall, where 1 loss becomes a series of losses.

It's like a manager can come in and get the best out of them for a few games. Then thats basically it, we're rubbish from then on, until another manager comes in and gets the best out of them for 3 or 4 games.

Captain Trips
22-03-2014, 05:14 PM
The way I see it regardless of how good or bad the squad is Fenlon failed to get results with them. If a new manager comes in who the point in bringing in is better than what we had I expect if he is better even with this squad to actually prove this by getting some better results, I am not expecting a 10 game winning streak but I expect some improvement.

If he is a better manager he should with the same players get some better results and for me it is pretty much more of the same 2 wins this year. When Fenlon took over from CC I didnt really see anything special and it turned out he didnt really do much.

I am not saying TB will not be good for us I am concerned at this juncture that I have seen nothing of real note.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:14 PM
Possibly because good defenders don't come cheap and we won't go the extra mile to pay for one

Yet, there are teams in the league that pay a fraction of what we do on their squads and they out class us in every area of the pitch, including defence.

truehibernian
22-03-2014, 05:16 PM
Liam Craig, Boeteng, Haynes, McGivern - all should have been nowhere near the squad today. Terry didn't back up his words post Partick - that's a major faux pas for me. Just shows players that's he's full of BS.

Next week I'd hand Black and Baptie their full debuts, put Dean Horribine in, and start up top with Heff and Cummings. Hope to god Watmore is fit - Hearts will be supremely confident of a win against these muppets.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:19 PM
Liam Craig, Boeteng, Haynes, McGivern - all should have been nowhere near the squad today. Terry didn't back up his words post Partick - that's a major faux pas for me. Just shows players that's he's full of BS.

Next week I'd hand Black and Baptie their full debuts, put Dean Horribine in, and start up top with Heff and Cummings. Hope to god Watmore is fit - Hearts will be supremely confident of a win against these muppets.

I reckon our under 20s squad would do the business against Hearts main squad, if they were confident enough to step up to the task.

Sean1875
22-03-2014, 05:23 PM
All these players that have came and gone with Hibs, when do we ever hear them blaming those at a higher level than management for their poor performances or lack of spirit etc? If the true cause of this was from boardroom level I doubt very much it would be a hushed up secret from all these duds that come to Hibs and leave a completely different - and poorer- player

inglisavhibs
22-03-2014, 05:25 PM
But it doesn't matter who we bring in and how many clear outs we have, the attitudes still stink. Isn't it possible that there's an attitude problem futher up in the club and thats somehow rubbing off onto the players themselves?

Think you are going down the wrong route there. The truth is that we have not had a good group of players for a number of years now and this lot are certainly not good enough. Not one of the recent managers has been abe to put together a balanced team capable of competing and their signings have been in the main terrible. We have a collection of players who with a very few exceptions are slow to the ball, easily beaten, can't ever beat a man and don't have the athleticism needed to play at this level. Butcher has taken on a bigger job than he could have ever imagined but I suppose it can't get much worse.

LaMotta
22-03-2014, 05:25 PM
It has to be an attitude issue amongst the players which is why we MUST empty 90 per cent of them and start again. What else could it be?

Its not about attitude, its about ability. We sign substandard players.

Motherwell sign Stephen McManus and James McFadden - we sign Nelson and Collins

Aberdeen sign Barry Robson - we get Liam Craig.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:31 PM
Think you are going down the wrong route there. The truth is that we have not had a good group of players for a number of years now and this lot are certainly not good enough. Not one of the recent managers has been abe to put together a balanced team capable of competing and their signings have been in the main terrible. We have a collection of players who with a very few exceptions are slow to the ball, easily beaten, can't ever beat a man and don't have the athleticism needed to play at this level. Butcher has taken on a bigger job than he could have ever imagined but I suppose it can't get much worse.

These players are better than what they're displaying. Thats been our problem for the past several years. We do not get the best out of players.

A lot of these players will leave and do a job for a club of a similar size to ourselves.

Wotherspoon (a player who wasn't "Hibs class") ripped the pish out of us today.

Elephant Stone
22-03-2014, 05:31 PM
That's my point. We have a problem that no new manager or set of players can fix.


What is it?


If I knew, i'd gladly share it with all of you.



Insight King strikes again.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 05:33 PM
Insight King strikes again.

Do you actually contribute anything at all on here? Or do you just follow other posters around and discredit anything they say, because you have nothing to put forward yourself?

Elephant Stone
22-03-2014, 05:36 PM
Do you actually contribute anything at all on here? Or do you just follow other posters around and discredit anything they say, because you have nothing to put forward yourself?

What are you wasting time arguing with me for? Get back to sharing your insight into the game you weren't at or these problems that you don't know about.

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 05:41 PM
What are you wasting time arguing with me for? Get back to sharing your insight into the game you weren't at or these problems that you don't know about.

TBF Hibercelona is one of the better posters on here.

kaimendhibs
22-03-2014, 05:44 PM
There is definitely a big problem at our club but I am genuinely at a loss as to what it is. Successive managers and a huge turnover of players have failed miserably to turn it round. If the problem is high up, how would it work? How can Petrie etc influence the performances or attitudes of players on a daily/weekly basis! Thru aren't all bad players, as shown before they arrive at hibs, Liam Craig a prime example. So what is it? I have no clue


Sent from my iphone

Ronniekirk
22-03-2014, 05:50 PM
What is it?
That's easy we have never appointed right manager at right time so they all have to get rid of players others have brought in and this takes time and uses up money that we need for new players so we bring in temporary loan players or journeymen at end of careers with no system to fit them into and we just keep repeating the cycle
If TB and M M and S M are right management Team we need Farmers to help pay off all the Dross to allow T B to bring in the 9 players he has identified .There must be some way Farmer could structure a loan over a longer term period that gets written off eventually as T B turns things around If we don't do something radical like this we will lurch from one window to next clearing the deadwood .Can we really wait another year to off load the players that still have another year or more on contracts who aren't in plans but might want to stick it out for the money and deprive us of the new players needed.

Ronniekirk
22-03-2014, 05:55 PM
Its not about attitude, its about ability. We sign substandard players.

Motherwell sign Stephen McManus and James McFadden - we sign Nelson and Collins

Aberdeen sign Barry Robson - we get Liam Craig.
So the question is why can't the managers we appoint get these players ? They either don't want to come to a club that is on a downward spiral, and whose manager they don't rate and whose Chairman won't pay contract others are paying or what ,because whatever it is it is damaging our Club .

Cameron1875
22-03-2014, 05:57 PM
Blowing the 2-0 lead we had away at Dundee United appears to have caused this spiral. Spineless c***s

LaMotta
22-03-2014, 05:57 PM
So the question is why can't the managers we appoint get these players ? They either don't want to come to a club that is on a downward spiral, and whose manager they don't rate and whose Chairman won't pay contract others are paying or what ,because whatever it is it is damaging our Club .

:agree:

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 06:04 PM
Year after year after year, the only reasonable conclusion is that our expectations are too high with our heads stuck in the clouds thinking that Hibs should be blah blah blah......................we are a bottom six side get used to it.

emerald green
22-03-2014, 06:09 PM
But it doesn't matter who we bring in and how many clear outs we have, the attitudes still stink. Isn't it possible that there's an attitude problem futher up in the club and thats somehow rubbing off onto the players themselves?

I agree with everything you say Hibercelona. There is a cancer at the heart of our club. So-called "smaller" clubs regularly come to Easter Road and beat us - Raith Rovers a few weeks ago. Our home record over the last few seasons is a disgrace. I really thought Liam Craig was a good signing, but after a wee while at Hibs - nothing. Players leave Hibs & do a good job at other clubs - e.g. Spoonie today for St Johnstone. I've said on other threads that I've discussed the malaise at Hibs with lots of other Hibs fans who all have their own theories about what's wrong at the club, but I'm none the wiser. There is now a deep routed losing mentality at Hibs and it is hard to see how that is going to be changed. Certainly not in the short term. :fuming:

Greenworld
22-03-2014, 06:16 PM
[QTE=Hibercelona;3939356]But it doesn't matter who we bring in and how many clear outs we have, the attitudes still stink. Isn't it possible that there's an attitude problem futher up in the club and thats somehow rubbing off onto the players themselves?[/QUOTE]

Im Intrigued I want to say what a load of crap but..give
more on what you think needs to happen

inglisavhibs
22-03-2014, 06:31 PM
These players are better than what they're displaying. Thats been our problem for the past several years. We do not get the best out of players.

A lot of these players will leave and do a job for a club of a similar size to ourselves.

Wotherspoon (a player who wasn't "Hibs class") ripped the pish out of us today.
Wotherspoon has been out the starting eleven a lot recently. He was no worse or better than our current lot.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Wotherspoon has been out the starting eleven a lot recently. He was no worse or better than our current lot.

From what i've heard, he troubled us a few times and could have scored. Thats more than what any of our own did today.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2014, 06:57 PM
From what i've heard, he troubled us a few times and could have scored. Thats more than what any of our own did today.

We are pish you have told us that enough times, why wouldnt he trouble us? :confused:

Alfred E Newman
22-03-2014, 07:02 PM
I said it in another thread, the manager is just the face.

You are surely not suggesting Farmer and Petrie are responsible for our defensive woes? If you are that's utter nonsense.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 07:05 PM
You are surely not suggesting Farmer and Petrie are responsible for our defensive woes? If you are that's utter nonsense.

Well to be fair, if we played them both in defence they probably would be :greengrin

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 07:06 PM
You are surely not suggesting Farmer and Petrie are responsible for our defensive woes? If you are that's utter nonsense.

You're not suggesting that four managers in a row and about fifty to sixty different players have all had the same issues by coincidence, are you? If you are that's utter nonsense.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 07:13 PM
You're not suggesting that four managers in a row and about fifty to sixty different players have all had the same issues by coincidence, are you? If you are that's utter nonsense.

Keep hearing this but as yet no-one has explained how 4 managers and 60 odd players have been undermined by Petrie and Farmer.............can you?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 07:16 PM
We are pish you have told us that enough times, why wouldnt he trouble us? :confused:

My point is. We've let players go for "not being good enough", only for them to come back and better us, due to us being even worse without them.

Next season, it'll be Liam Craig or some other ex-Hibs player in a Partick Thistle strip getting the better of us.

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 07:17 PM
Keep hearing this but as yet no-one has explained how 4 managers and 60 odd players have been undermined by Petrie and Farmer.............can you?

Of course he can't. Because very few people have very little insight as to what goes on behind the scenes at the club.

But just because we don't know, doesn't mean we don't have the right to suspect that something may be wrong.

emerald green
22-03-2014, 07:18 PM
You are surely not suggesting Farmer and Petrie are responsible for our defensive woes? If you are that's utter nonsense.

The buck has to stop somewhere for our team's defensive woes (or any other woes). Tom Farmer isn't really interested, and that may be a factor in a seeming lack of ambition at the top of our club? However, Petrie is the guy ultimately in charge of the purse strings, and a succession of disastrous managerial appointments. Those poor managerial appointments, allied to those same managers having to make do with a succession of loan signings, and others who are simply not good enough, are then reflected by performances on the pitch.

JOD
22-03-2014, 07:22 PM
I reckon our under 20s squad would do the business against Hearts main squad, if they were confident enough to step up to the task.

God there is some P__sh spoke on this site having seen the under 20's couple of times this season peppered along with some of the first team players there is no way these youngsters are ready to take on something like that next week. Somehow TB/MM have to get something out of this demoralised squad or we are in B_G SH___ FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON. :worried::pray:

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 07:23 PM
Of course he can't. Because very few people have very little insight as to what goes on behind the scenes at the club.

But just because we don't know, doesn't mean we don't have the right to suspect that something may be wrong.


I get that but seriously what can possibly go on that affects to the extent we are suffering?

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 07:26 PM
Keep hearing this but as yet no-one has explained how 4 managers and 60 odd players have been undermined by Petrie and Farmer.............can you?

Do you think that a winning culture runs through the club at all levels?

Dashing Bob S
22-03-2014, 07:29 PM
We effortlessly drag the moderately gifted into a swamp of mediocrity. I don't think enough desire is shown at boardroom level and this permeates into the management and playing staff.

The playing staff aren't very good but some have shown themselves to be capable of playing well on Occasion. I think we need the basics of a harder, faster, fitter squad who can compete, then we start to bring in quality.

greenlex
22-03-2014, 07:34 PM
I refuse to believe that Nelson or McGivern are bad footballers, McGivern in particular I've seen play very well before. There's something wrong at our club - it's not at playing level or with the manager, I firmly believe that. We need to change the culture at our club overall IMO. I'm not really getting this. The playing side will be a million miles removed from the Directors of the club. At my work I don't see a director from one month to the next. They are not in my sphere of influence. It will be the same for the players and to an extent the management team. How can the Board of Directors influence the players day to day?

emerald green
22-03-2014, 07:38 PM
I get that but seriously what can possibly go on that affects to the extent we are suffering?

That's the 64,000 dollar question. For what it's worth, I don't think it's down to any one particular thing, rather than a whole set of factors. There are deep seated problems at the club. Surely there can be no doubt about that? I could go on about what I think these problems are, but I'm not going to. These have been aired on these forums, and elsewhere, many times before. But nothing changes. Maybe a complete change of ownership at the club with drive, ambition, and last but not least money is the only thing that will drag us out of this malaise.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 07:46 PM
Do you think that a winning culture runs through the club at all levels?


A winning culture at all levels? Clearly not on the level that matters to us the football supporter which is on the pitch, however the business side of the club has a pretty successful culture running through it hence the fact that we are sitting in a purpose built stadium, training facilities etc, etc. Clearly the business people at the club have it right, so why can't the playing side get it right?

hibee_girl
22-03-2014, 07:51 PM
I refuse to believe that Nelson or McGivern are bad footballers, McGivern in particular I've seen play very well before. There's something wrong at our club - it's not at playing level or with the manager, I firmly believe that. We need to change the culture at our club overall IMO.

Agree re McGivern, we all wanted him to sign up last season for a reason.

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 07:54 PM
A winning culture at all levels? Clearly not on the level that matters to us the football supporter which is on the pitch, however the business side of the club has a pretty successful culture running through it hence the fact that we are sitting in a purpose built stadium, training facilities etc, etc. Clearly the business people at the club have it right, so why can't the playing side get it right?

Seeing as how previous managers with decent experience haven't managed to crack it between them it's fair to perhaps ask questions of the people above?

How the board get such an easy ride from the support when they are failing is beyond me.

jakeshibs
22-03-2014, 07:57 PM
I'm not really getting this. The playing side will be a million miles removed from the Directors of the club. At my work I don't see a director from one month to the next. They are not in my sphere of influence. It will be the same for the players and to an extent the management team. How can the Board of Directors influence the players day to day?

I agree

jakeshibs
22-03-2014, 08:00 PM
Seeing as how previous managers with decent experience haven't managed to crack it between them it's fair to perhaps ask questions of the people above?

How the board get such an easy ride from the support when they are failing is beyond me.

Get an easy ride????? when??? every defeat is their fault, Rod Petries fault or STF fault according to posts on here, I don't think they get an easy time at all.
but as pointed out f our playing side was as successful a them we would be happy supporters

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 08:04 PM
Get an easy ride????? when??? every defeat is their fault, Rod Petries fault or STF fault according to posts on here, I don't think they get an easy time at all.
but as pointed out f our playing side was as successful a them we would be happy supporters

Total rubbish. Every dropped point this season was Fenlon's fault when it's looking like there was much more to it than just him, and despite manager after manager after manager struggling to turn our fortunes about the manager is still the one getting the flack all the time, players getting abuse and being useless despite having played well at Championship level in the past.

I wonder if we might need to hire more backroom staff, I know that we're running on the bare bones right now and if that overstretching is just a bit too much right now?

Hibercelona
22-03-2014, 08:05 PM
Get an easy ride????? when??? every defeat is their fault, Rod Petries fault or STF fault according to posts on here, I don't think they get an easy time at all.
but as pointed out f our playing side was as successful a them we would be happy supporters

It's not a case of every defeat being their fault. It's a case of several years of abject failure being their fault, seeing as they're the lowest common denominator in all of this.

It's only rational to suspect that their every day running of the club is somehow having a negative impact on players and possibly other staff as well, As it doesn't seem to make a blind bit of difference how many times things are changed below board level.

Alfred E Newman
22-03-2014, 08:07 PM
You're not suggesting that four managers in a row and about fifty to sixty different players have all had the same issues by coincidence, are you? If you are that's utter nonsense.

The OP was questioning our defensive weakness. If McGivern fails once again to win a bread and butter header, that's Petries fault? If you are discussing whether or not managerial choices have been correct then thats another debate.

gillythehibby
22-03-2014, 08:34 PM
Year after year after year, the only reasonable conclusion is that our expectations are too high with our heads stuck in the clouds thinking that Hibs should be blah blah blah......................we are a bottom six side get used to it.

Nonsense ! So we should have expectations like ross county, Killy, St Mirren etc? All provincial clubs. Hibs should be a top 5 side year on year with the resources we have and that's a reasonable expectation. HIbs fans heads are not in the clouds. We know the size of the club and have expectations to suit. It's a pity our leadership don't !!

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2014, 08:40 PM
Nonsense ! So we should have expectations like ross county, Killy, St Mirren etc? All provincial clubs. Hibs should be a top 5 side year on year with the resources we have and that's a reasonable expectation. HIbs fans heads are not in the clouds. We know the size of the club and have expectations to suit. It's a pity our leadership don't !!

Tongue in cheek mate................calm down :greengrin

BH Hibs
22-03-2014, 09:21 PM
Yet, there are teams in the league that pay a fraction of what we do on their squads and they out class us in every area of the pitch, including defence.

Who are the teams That have paid a fraction of our defence and are above us

Jonnyboy
22-03-2014, 11:14 PM
Liam Craig, Boeteng, Haynes, McGivern - all should have been nowhere near the squad today. Terry didn't back up his words post Partick - that's a major faux pas for me. Just shows players that's he's full of BS.

Next week I'd hand Black and Baptie their full debuts, put Dean Horribine in, and start up top with Heff and Cummings. Hope to god Watmore is fit - Hearts will be supremely confident of a win against these muppets.

He did in part. Six changes although granted three were enforced. Like you I'd bring Black and Baptie in and move Forster in alongside Nelson with McGivern dropping out as he should have done some time ago

Northernhibee
22-03-2014, 11:31 PM
The OP was questioning our defensive weakness. If McGivern fails once again to win a bread and butter header, that's Petries fault? If you are discussing whether or not managerial choices have been correct then thats another debate.

First of all, the constant slagging of individual players is getting very, very tiresome on these boards. Chicken and egg scenario - yes, McGivern was poor today but picking one player out today would be unfair, we were poor in general and should look at things as win as a team, lose as a team.

There's also a big difference between individual errors and the culture of the club to allow our team to be successful or not which is what's interesting. I'm not questioning managerial choices either - our defensive weakness has been there for some time so logic would dictate that it's not the manager that is the cause, the logic would be to say that the cause is something much more longstanding than that.

The .net philosophy all too often appears to be use Hanlon/Nelson/McGivern/Maybury/whoever as a scapegoat (incorrectly) when actually the fingers should be pointed elsewhere. It is not just the boards job to keep a healthy balance sheet but to create an environment where the team can be successful. I'm very interested in finding out what the board do to really strongly lead the club overall as we are bailing out our ship with a leaky bucket right now.

truehibernian
23-03-2014, 12:02 AM
He did in part. Six changes although granted three were enforced. Like you I'd bring Black and Baptie in and move Forster in alongside Nelson with McGivern dropping out as he should have done some time ago

I meant the threat to play the youngsters JB - and that is exactly what I would have done. My team midweek that I posted was 'Black, Forster, Hanlon and Baptie' (clearly PH was injured though) - I'd also included Dean Horribine alongside KT.

I think if you come out with a threat like that then sometimes you have to carry though on it, otherwise said players think the boss is just venting after a game and won't do what he says.

For what it's worth (and I think you agree on this), Black and Baptie in particular would actually enhance the side and make us a better attacking threat (defensively too).

J-C
23-03-2014, 12:57 AM
I've said it before, we have a chairman and board who are very happy to muddle along balancing the books year after year, there's no leadership and mediocrity has become the norm. Until we have strong leadership and a manager who begins by kicking a few ***** more often, things will not change, can you imagine Fergie allowing this lot to play the way they have, boots would be flying about that locker room every game.

Ozyhibby
23-03-2014, 09:56 AM
Get a couple of proper full backs instead of playing 4 centre backs and things will improve. We are the only club in the league that does this.

Alfred E Newman
23-03-2014, 11:40 AM
Get a couple of proper full backs instead of playing 4 centre backs and things will improve. We are the only club in the league that does this.

Correct. I've been saying this for years.

BH Hibs
23-03-2014, 11:59 AM
Get a couple of proper full backs instead of playing 4 centre backs and things will improve. We are the only club in the league that does this.

Decent shout mate

Northernhibee
23-03-2014, 12:09 PM
Get a couple of proper full backs instead of playing 4 centre backs and things will improve. We are the only club in the league that does this.

It worked a treat with Kujabi and Doherty.

Honestly, the problems are not as narrow as just tactics or individual players.

inglisavhibs
23-03-2014, 01:09 PM
From what i've heard, he troubled us a few times and could have scored. Thats more than what any of our own did today.
Didn't mean yesterday, i was referring to his contribution at Hibs which was mediocre.

inglisavhibs
23-03-2014, 01:15 PM
Nonsense ! So we should have expectations like ross county, Killy, St Mirren etc? All provincial clubs. Hibs should be a top 5 side year on year with the resources we have and that's a reasonable expectation. HIbs fans heads are not in the clouds. We know the size of the club and have expectations to suit. It's a pity our leadership don't !!
I am sure they do,it's just the question of how they achieve it? You can't believe the board don't want Hibs to be successful.

LaMotta
23-03-2014, 01:37 PM
First of all, the constant slagging of individual players is getting very, very tiresome on these boards. Chicken and egg scenario - yes, McGivern was poor today but picking one player out today would be unfair, we were poor in general and should look at things as win as a team, lose as a team.

There's also a big difference between individual errors and the culture of the club to allow our team to be successful or not which is what's interesting. I'm not questioning managerial choices either - our defensive weakness has been there for some time so logic would dictate that it's not the manager that is the cause, the logic would be to say that the cause is something much more longstanding than that.

The .net philosophy all too often appears to be use Hanlon/Nelson/McGivern/Maybury/whoever as a scapegoat (incorrectly) when actually the fingers should be pointed elsewhere. It is not just the boards job to keep a healthy balance sheet but to create an environment where the team can be successful. I'm very interested in finding out what the board do to really strongly lead the club overall as we are bailing out our ship with a leaky bucket right now.


But you are saying that we have players who ARE good enough to compete at the top end of the league and that we have the correct Management team in place. If that is the case what more would you expect from the board?

I would argue that the players we sign in general aren't good enough, which is reason to question the board.

Ozyhibby
23-03-2014, 01:38 PM
It worked a treat with Kujabi and Doherty.

Honestly, the problems are not as narrow as just tactics or individual players.

Your definition of 'proper full backs' and mine could not be further apart.

.Sean.
23-03-2014, 01:41 PM
The defence is a shambles.

Nelson is an absolute carthorse. Long ball huddy. Pish. Hanlon is soft as *****. Been at the centre of a ***** defence for years, speaks volumes nobody's ever came in for him. McGivern's a poor player. Horrendous distribution and awful positioning.

Forster's a player, if you play him in his right position. Never a full back.

leggeto
24-03-2014, 12:34 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but does anyone know what sort of wages Inverness paid out last season compared to our £3.9m

Ozyhibby
24-03-2014, 12:38 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but does anyone know what sort of wages Inverness paid out last season compared to our £3.9m

IIRC it's about £800k per annum.
It's easy to see why we are struggling to compete with them.
:-(

Michael
24-03-2014, 12:39 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but does anyone know what sort of wages Inverness paid out last season compared to our £3.9m

Not sure, but in 2012 they paid about 1.5m.

leggeto
24-03-2014, 12:51 PM
Not sure, but in 2012 they paid about 1.5m.

Jesus,that's a big difference,just shows what he achieved up there on that budget,he will have us sorted out soon enough,he just needs a chance to clear the dead wood and get his own men in

eggbamyasi
24-03-2014, 01:11 PM
Nelson and mcgivern for me is the big problem in defence . There distribution is just terrible absolutely shocking . Put the team is danger almost every time they clear it , opposition straight on the attack every time they clear it . Really poor .
Imo I would like terry to build defence around partnership of hanlon and forster . Think he can get them both trained up to be great cb pairing . Would like to see this back four next season ( hope only not sure we could get the players )
Shinnie
Hanlon
Forster
Naismith / yaqub ( both st mirren )
Think that would be a cracking defence :-D

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

greenforgo
24-03-2014, 08:15 PM
Nelson and mcgivern for me is the big problem in defence . There distribution is just terrible absolutely shocking . Put the team is danger almost every time they clear it , opposition straight on the attack every time they clear it . Really poor .
Imo I would like terry to build defence around partnership of hanlon and forster . Think he can get them both trained up to be great cb pairing . Would like to see this back four next season ( hope only not sure we could get the players )
Shinnie
Hanlon
Forster
Naismith / yaqub ( both st mirren )
Think that would be a cracking defence :-D

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Agreed

Redford Raj
24-03-2014, 08:24 PM
Agreed
Just watching the Conference game
Hibs could do worse than signing the left and right back of Halifax Town. the right back Roberts and the left back McManus the Centre Forward Gregory isn't a bad player as well. Bothe the backs have superb throw ins especially Mark Roberts. Anybody watching.

Jonnyboy
24-03-2014, 08:32 PM
I meant the threat to play the youngsters JB - and that is exactly what I would have done. My team midweek that I posted was 'Black, Forster, Hanlon and Baptie' (clearly PH was injured though) - I'd also included Dean Horribine alongside KT.

I think if you come out with a threat like that then sometimes you have to carry though on it, otherwise said players think the boss is just venting after a game and won't do what he says.

For what it's worth (and I think you agree on this), Black and Baptie in particular would actually enhance the side and make us a better attacking threat (defensively too).

Sorry for the delay in responding. Us old guys need our sleep you know :greengrin

I agree re the threat of playing youngsters and then not following through on that. Daft thing to say if he didn't mean it. Also agree (strongly) that Black and Baptie should start as Forster and in particular McGivern have been really poor recently.

Long Time Hibee
24-03-2014, 11:09 PM
Jesus,that's a big difference,just shows what he achieved up there on that budget,he will have us sorted out soon enough,he just needs a chance to clear the dead wood and get his own men in

Great point and hope he gets the backing. With more than double the wage bill, he should be able to get it right.

Long Time Hibee
24-03-2014, 11:17 PM
Nelson and mcgivern for me is the big problem in defence . There distribution is just terrible absolutely shocking . Put the team is danger almost every time they clear it , opposition straight on the attack every time they clear it . Really poor .
Imo I would like terry to build defence around partnership of hanlon and forster . Think he can get them both trained up to be great cb pairing . Would like to see this back four next season ( hope only not sure we could get the players )
Shinnie
Hanlon
Forster
Naismith / yaqub ( both st mirren )
Think that would be a cracking defence :-D

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Yeah, Nelson's distribution is awful but his defending is really bad which is his job!
If Black & Baptie are ready next season, it should be : Black, Forster, Hanlon, Baptie?
BTW Murdock looked very good!