St Johnstone 2 v Hibernian 0 (Haynes sent off)

[hibbymick]

Butcher's record must be worse than Fenlon?

shi*e players but I reckon fenlon got more out of them than butcher has.

[J-C]

We have a team of slow one paced midfielders, yet Butcher wants them to play high tempo, surely impossible until he gets in players capable of doing this. Can't polish ***** as they say.

[Scouse Hibee]

There's always next season :greengrin

[Onion]

Joke of a team, won't win another game this season. Whatever chance we had went when Butcher started slating the players in public, pish management skills. Butcher guilty of making poor signings in January, 2nd bottom here we come. Maybe the yams will relegate us at Easter Road post split.

How does that work ?

[Nailrod]

Time to log off , the depressing bed wetters will be out in force. Not to mention the armchair master tacticians.:not worth
If being infuriated by the fact that:
1. we are effing ******

and the fact that:
2. we have been effing ****** for 7 years now

makes me a 'depressing bed wetter', then I guess I had better go and pash all over my bed.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It's hard to find any reasons to be cheerful to be fair...

Season is nearly over?

[Pretty Boy]

Time to log off , the depressing bed wetters will be out in force. Not to mention the armchair master tacticians.:not worth

Oh goody goody another defeat and poor performance.

Should guarantee an exciting end to the season and maybe even a couple of extra games in a play off. If season tickets are valid that's a bonus as well. Happy days are here again.

Better?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Time to log off , the depressing bed wetters will be out in force. Not to mention the armchair master tacticians.:not worth

C'mon stay logged on. Let's have a chat about how good we are we can compliment the players ability and desire, applaud the tactical and motivational genius of the management team and discuss how good the rest of the season will be and what we're looking forward to the most.

[21.05.2016]

Embarrassing.

[Bostonhibby]

We will get beat next week aswell:agree:, don't be too disappointes either. Hibs let the fans down all the time. I honestly don't care about this season anymore, I'm not sure the players do either. We are in freefall.

Sadly I agree every word, comparing the yam effort against the arabs with ours the yam were better and if they get in about us through the middle we are beat. Not even that bothered just now.

[IWasThere2016]

Butcher's record must be worse than Fenlon?

Yes I would imagine so. Statistically, the next manager is worse than the previous one .. Still, In Rod We Trust :faf:

[GreenLake]

Really ****ing dreading next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's going to be the derby of the worst teams for both clubs ever. Could turn out to be an exciting if not classy game of football.

[stevejordan]

Can't remember losing to st johnstone away under fenlon. In fact we seemed to win almost every time. To think, some on here wanted fenlon sacked for a 1-0 WIN at firhill, yet butcher's team gets hammered and barely a word. 1 win in 12 is relegation form and sacking form.

teams behind us will ensure we avoid the play offs

[SteveHFC]

We will get beat next week aswell:agree:, don't be too disappointes either. Hibs let the fans down all the time. I honestly don't care about this season anymore, I'm not sure the players do either. We are in freefall.

:top marks

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I wonder what the threats will be this week then...

[The Gorf]

Really ****ing dreading next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why? We always play differently against them. I still fancy our chances.

GGTTH and FTH

[Twa Cairpets]

Joke of a team, won't win another game this season. Whatever chance we had went when Butcher started slating the players in public, pish management skills. Butcher guilty of making poor signings in January, 2nd bottom here we come. Maybe the yams will relegate us at Easter Road post split.

Away and behave yourself. Fancy a £50 charity bet on not winning another game? Or are you just another bed-wetting troll?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yes I would imagine so. Statistically, the next manager is worse than the previous one .. Still, In Rod We Trust :faf:

Have you written off the next manager already? Who is he?

[SaulGoodman]

I'm glad we started Thomson and Heffernan. Don't understand why Butcher didn't play them before.

[Greencore]

I really hope Rod gives us some cash in the summer...

[The Falcon]

Yes I would imagine so. Statistically, the next manager is worse than the previous one .. Still, In Rod We Trust :faf:

I thought Fenlon had a better record than Calderwood?

[Twa Cairpets]

It's going to be the derby of the worst teams for both clubs ever. Could turn out to be an exciting if not classy game of football.

No, it's not. This team is not worse than, say Calderwoods? Duff Jimmys?

[Houchy]

We're all hurting today and venting our frustrations, but your recent posts on this thread have been very silly. Get a grip.

FWIW, I agree and think we will get turned over next Sunday. By 2 or 3 too. 1 from Stevenson (freak), a Hammil penalty and 1 from bombscare McGivern.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm glad we started Thomson and Heffernan. Don't understand why Butcher didn't play them before.

:agree: with Collins out of the side I imagine Craig will be in the firing line.

Mind you mcgivern's crept up on him.

[Crazyhorse]

Season is nearly over?

That's about all I can think of too.

[marinello59]

Yes I would imagine so. Statistically, the next manager is worse than the previous one .. Still, In Rod We Trust :faf:
I take it you have been rubbishing the apointment of Butcher since he was first linked with us then?

[J-C]

I really hope Rod gives us some cash in the summer...

Hell has to freeze over 1st for that to happen.

[hibbybrian]

Why? We always play diffidently against them.

sorted :greengrin

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I really hope Rod gives us some cash in the summer...

Don't hold your breath, it is Rod we are talking about. He is as tight as a nuns ****.

[coldingham hibs]

How does that work ?

Well, if they put us in the play off spot and we lose that then in my opinion they will have relegated us. It my not be exactly factual but I for one will feel thats the case.

[Onceinawhile]

Nobody ever wanted fenlon sacked because of a win

You didn't read this place after we beat partick 1-0 away then.

[Hibercelona]

Yes I would imagine so. Statistically, the next manager is worse than the previous one .. Still, In Rod We Trust :faf:

Hibs are a bit like politics. It doesn't matter who you want in, because they're all just puppets of an even greater entity.

[The Sea-gull]

Murdoch is having a stormer. We really don't have many decent players though we must have improved a bit on the last couple two seasons as we were routed to second bottom for most of the season 2 years ago and last year we were round about the same place in the league at this point but we had Griffiths and have had nobody this season to do anything like what he did.

[Heisenberg]

Mcgivern is dreadful. Needs dropped for next week. Forster isn't a right back either. Get the u20 boys in and give them a chance. Killie losing now too, scores going for us so far.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Murdoch is having a stormer. We really don't have many decent players though we must have improved a bit on the last couple two seasons as we were routed to second bottom for most of the season 2 years ago and last year we were round about the same place in the league at this point but we had Griffiths and have had nobody this season to do anything like what he did.

Is that a good or bad thing?

[Alfred E Newman]

I really hope Rod gives us some cash in the summer...

Like last summer?

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder what the threats will be this week then...

He might threaten to bring in the youngsters again. Like he was going to do this week and proceeded to bring in:

Kevin Thomson 29
Liam Craig 27
Sean Murdoch 27
Danny Haynes 26
Paul Heffernan 32.

God knows how old some of our players must be if they are youngsters.

[Bostonhibby]

Time to log off , the depressing bed wetters will be out in force. Not to mention the armchair master tacticians.:not worth

From the above I am assuming that you probably don't put yourself into the bedwetter or indeed the armchair master tactician camp.

Can you let us all know what the best way to express ourselves during this abysmal spell is? It's not making a smart remark and logging off into the sunset is it?:wink:

[leggeto]

Why? We always play differently against them. I still fancy our chances.

GGTTH and FTH

form goes out the window for a Derby

[coldingham hibs]

No, it's not. This team is not worse than, say Calderwoods? Duff Jimmys?

Yes it is, but that's a matter of opinion.

[Scouse Hibee]

We can clamour for whoever from our squad to be in the team each week, the truth is it doesn't really matter we're pish and we know we are. The only way is up, next season can't come quick enough.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

You know Hibs are bad when we have to rely on other results to go our way:boo hoo:

[Greencore]

Like last summer?
James Collins, 200k.. apparantly.

[The Sea-gull]

Mcgivern is dreadful. Needs dropped for next week. Forster isn't a right back either. Get the u20 boys in and give them a chance. Killie losing now too, scores going for us so far.. This seems to happen most weeks. All scores go for us accept our own. The way things are going the last few weeks we are clear of the play off by the ineptitude of others and in spite of our own ineptitude.

[SteveHFC]

James Collins, 200k.. apparantly.

:faf:

[Onion]

It's going to be the derby of the worst teams for both clubs ever. Could turn out to be an exciting if not classy game of football.

:agree: This is a rare season where we have had more money, better players (apparently) and certainly a better management team and yet.... it will be basic team spirit and motivation that will win the day. Horrendous.

[Alfred E Newman]

Mcgivern is dreadful. Needs dropped for next week. Forster isn't a right back either. Get the u20 boys in and give them a chance. Killie losing now too, scores going for us so far.

McGivern needs to be shifted out permenantly.

[Nailrod]

No. We've been outplayed this half. Would you prefer me to lie about the texts I'm getting from the game?I wasn't having a go at you. You're only reporting what you were hearing.

And given that we haven't had any attempts at all on goal in the second half - on target or otherwise - we probably are being outplayed this half.

And somehow we're still shading the possession statistics... :confused::dunno:

[leggeto]

I get the feeling we're playing better with 10 men

[ancienthibby]

I really hope Rod gives us some cash in the summer...

Get real.

There's no money for Rod or anyone else to give!

[Greencore]

:faf:
The key word "apparently"

[Thecat23]

These players are horrific simples. Heff is murder, I'd bin him as well right away along with pretty much the rest.

Pretty mad that some fans think the players are giving their all when it's far from it and want out. McGivern wouldn't get in my 5's team. One of the worst players in ER.

[The Sea-gull]

Is that a good or bad thing?
Keeper having a stormer is always good. Means he is keeping you in a game or avoiding you an even worse score than the one you have. The latter for us today.

[Kaiser1962]

I thought Fenlon had a better record than Calderwood?

Statistically Fenkon had a better record than any manager since Collins. Even slightly better than Yogi which, when you consider their respective inheritance, surprised me.

[RoxburghHibs]

James Collins, 200k.. apparantly.

We paid £30k not £200k

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Keeper having a stormer is always good. Means he is keeping you in a game or avoiding you an even worse score than the one you have. The latter for us today.

In with a shout to start next week then?

[leggeto]

What's happening?

[The Sea-gull]

We paid £30k not £200k

Involved in the deal? Seen the books?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Statistically Fenkon had a better record than any manager since Collins. Even slightly better than Yogi which, when you consider their respective inheritance, surprised me.

Tells you a lot about statistics.

Mind Maka was a superstar goalie at one point cos of statistics?

[Pretty Boy]

14K+ at Pittodrie today.

Shows what taking advantage of Hearts and Rangers plights can do for a clubs attendances.

Meanwhile we will be playing bottom 6 football again. That's bottom 6 with no Rangers in the league and Hearts starting on minus 15 points. That is a ****ing travesty.

[Keith_M]

What's happening?


We're losing, but about to score 3 goals :wink:

[The Sea-gull]

In with a shout to start next week then?

I'd play him in goals and Williams up front. He can't do any worse than Collins, Hayes, Heffernan, handling or Cummings.

[Greencore]

In other news Gary O'connor just scored for Morton.

[Northernhibee]

Involved in the deal? Seen the books?

Were you involved in the deal or have you seen the books?

[leggeto]

We're losing, but about to score 3 goals :wink:

im getting on the phone to my bookie

[Keith_M]

In other news Gary O'connor just scored for Morton.


Any chance of a return to ER?

[Hibercelona]

These players are horrific simples. Heff is murder, I'd bin him as well right away along with pretty much the rest.

Pretty mad that some fans think the players are giving their all when it's far from it and want out. McGivern wouldn't get in my 5's team. One of the worst players in ER.

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.

[Beefster]

These players are horrific simples. Heff is murder, I'd bin him as well right away along with pretty much the rest.

Pretty mad that some fans think the players are giving their all when it's far from it and want out. McGivern wouldn't get in my 5's team. One of the worst players in ER.

That can't be right. I've been reading on here over the last couple of weeks about how good he is.

[theonlywayisup]

We can clamour for whoever from our squad to be in the team each week, the truth is it doesn't really matter we're pish and we know we are. Theonlywayisup, next season can't come quick enough.

You called.........yes, I agree

[Thecat23]

That can't be right. I've been reading on here over the last couple of weeks about how good he is.

There is a reason he doesn't play mate. A very lazy player in training according to some.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.

Do you think the board are telling them to play pishly?

[leggeto]

That can't be right. I've been reading on here over the last couple of weeks about how good he is.

wouldn't say he was murder,I think a few of us are getting a little frustrated,nothing a win gorgie won't fix

[Danderhall Hibs]

There is a reason he doesn't play mate. A very lazy player in training according to some.

That and the board have been interfering and asking him to be poor.

[Keith_M]

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.


Could you explain how that works!?!?


We buy decent players and Petrie tells them to play cr*p?


:confused:

[Thecat23]

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.

TB I believe will have his players playing well mate. This lot are impostors signed by a poor manager. Can't wait till they go in the summer.

I've still plenty faith in Butcher myself. Buts that's just me.

[stevejordan]

Todays result does not drag us into play off contention the teams below us have not managed to gain very much on us in last 10 games so i cant see much changing in next 10.

This does not include todays games but all below us are getting beat so no gain on us for any of them today.


Current Form Gide SPL
Last 10 matches (overall)



P

W

D

L

GF

GA

Dif

Pts



1

Celtic (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=3)

10

9


1

30

2

+28

27



2

Aberdeen (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=1)

10

7

1

2

12

8

+4

22



3

Dundee Utd (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=8)

10

5

3

2

18

15

+3

18



4

Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=12)

10

5

2

3

21

18

+3

17



5

Ross County (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=4)

10

4

3

3

15

14

+1

15



6

Partick Thistle (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=7)

10

3

5

2

17

13

+4

14



7

St Johnstone (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=9)

10

4

1

5

10

10


13



8

Inverness (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=5)

10

3

3

4

7

12

-5

12



9

Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=2)

10

2

3

5

12

19

-7

9



10

Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=10)

10

2

2

6

11

20

-9

8



11

St Mirren (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=6)

10

2

1

7

9

17

-8

7



12

Hibernian (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=11)

10

1

4

5

12

21

-9

7

[Hibercelona]

Do you think the board are telling them to play pishly?

Of course not. But I do believe that the way a club board conducts itself, can have an effect on the players.

[Northernhibee]

That can't be right. I've been reading on here over the last couple of weeks about how good he is.

I'm also delighted with our performance now KT is playing for us.

[The Sea-gull]

Were you involved in the deal or have you seen the books?

No, hence why I am not correcting anyone when they quote the transfer fee.

[RoxburghHibs]

Involved in the deal? Seen the books?

Yeah

[Keith_M]

TB I believe will have his players playing well mate. This lot are impostors signed by a poor manager. Can't wait till they go in the summer.

I've still plenty faith in Butcher myself. Buts that's just me.


Yes, but wait till Petrie starts telling the new signings to play rubbish


:rolleyes:

[Onion]

Well, if they put us in the play off spot and we lose that then in my opinion they will have relegated us. It my not be exactly factual but I for one will feel thats the case.

Butcher is far from blameless in this collapse. IMHO he was far too quick to hammer the players, threaten clear-outs, giving out ultimatums and then bring back players he told could leave. His man management skills seem to be all over the place. Threatening to clear-out virtually the whole first team has not worked - quite the opposite - and we're now worried about stumbling over the line.

[Greencore]

Like I said on this board when Butcher was first Appointed. I will not judge Butcher on this season. I will give him a full season next season. He and co need a chance to get his own players in and get the duds out. Bring on next season.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm also delighted with our performance now KT is playing for us.

I'm hearing he's strolling through the game. Head and shoulders above anyone on the park.

Well I've not heard it yet but no doubt will later.

[RoxburghHibs]

No, hence why I am not correcting anyone when the quote the transfer fee.

I wasn't but spoke to a man who knows the player. Was £30k a year over 3 seasons.

[Keith_M]

Of course not. But I do believe that the way a club board conducts itself, can have an effect on the players.


Nope, sorry, you'll still have to explain that one a bit more.

[Jones28]

Are we **** going to relegate that lot next week.

[hibees 7062]

[QUOTE=The Sea-gull;3939305]I'd play him in goals and Williams

Sorted :greengrin

[KuqiKuqiCoo]

Least I've guessed the score? Positive?

[weonlywon6-2]

Like I said on this board when Butcher was first Appointed. I will not judge Butcher on this season. I will give him a full season next season. He and co need a chance to get his own players in and get the duds out. Bring on next season.

this is it exactly.As much as we are all hurting terry need to get his own players in cause what he was left with was rubbish

[GreenLake]

I'd play him in goals and Williams up front. He can't do any worse than Collins, Hayes, Heffernan, handling or Cummings.
:greengrin

[Nailrod]

We can clamour for whoever from our squad to be in the team each week, the truth is it doesn't really matter we're pish and we know we are. The only way is up, next season can't come quick enough. Unfortunately this just isn't true. Last season Dundee were stickons for relegation because they came into the SPL totally unprepared. This season Hearts were stickons for relegation.

Next season there will be a relegation place and a playoff place. We have been farting about in the bottom six for years. You can only do that for so long before you end up holding the short straw. We have no money to turn things round. We will be going into next season with the same clueless Board of Directors, a management team that has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of improving results in the short time it has been here, and a set of players who will either be the same as this year, or fished from exactly the same pool as the current squad.

[Sean1875]

another weekend, another honking result. cheers Hibs, roll on next week :aok:

[truehibernian]

Ryan McGivern has cost Hibs so many opening goals it's frightening - coward, can't attack the ball, minute he's named on the team sheet the scoreboard should add a goal to the opposition in advance.

Get your effing finger out Ryan and learn to defend !

[Onion]

Of course not. But I do believe that the way a club board conducts itself, can have an effect on the players.

Absolutely correct :top marks We're talking about a winning mentality and high performance culture in everything the club does. After 7 years, the malaise at ER is almost palpable. The Board's decisions and behaviours have set this tone.

[Pretty Boy]

Put a 10 team acca on this morning. Meant to pick Man Utd, somehow picked Sunderland. 9 results came in, Sunderland lost.

Hibs lose.

Only thing that could have spoiled my weekend more would have been Hearts winning.

[Keith_M]

So after starting the thread that saw a spirited fightback against Motherwell I've decided to reclaim update thread duties.

..................


Pretty Boy OUT, A.N.Other IN

[The Falcon]

Like I said on this board when Butcher was first Appointed. I will not judge Butcher on this season. I will give him a full season next season. He and co need a chance to get his own players in and get the duds out. Bring on next season.

I would say that he needs that at least.

[Pretty Boy]

Ryan McGivern has cost Hibs so many opening goals it's frightening - coward, can't attack the ball, minute he's named on the team sheet the scoreboard should add a goal to the opposition in advance.

Get your effing finger out Ryan and learn to defend !

This can be shortened to Ryan McGivern is pish.

[stevejordan]

Unfortunately this just isn't true. Last season Dundee were stickons for relegation because they came into the SPL totally unprepared. This season Hearts were stickons for relegation.

Next season there will be a relegation place and a playoff place. We have been farting about in the bottom six for years. You can only do that for so long before you end up holding the short straw. We have no money to turn things round. We will be going into next season with the same clueless Board of Directors, a management team that has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of improving results in the short time it has been here, and a set of players who will either be the same as this year, or fished from exactly the same pool as the current squad.


You have diagnosed the problem whats the cure ?

[leggeto]

Put a 10 team acca on this morning. Meant to pick Man Utd, somehow picked Sunderland. 9 results came in, Sunderland lost.

Hibs lose.

Only thing that could have spoiled my weekend more would have been Hearts winning.

never put us on your coupon man,learned that lesson years ago

[blackpoolhibs]

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.

Are you saying someone other than the manager is telling Butcher/Fenlon/Calderclown/Hughes/Mixu/Collins/Mowbray who to pick or what tactics to play?

[Scouse Hibee]

Unfortunately this just isn't true. Last season Dundee were stickons for relegation because they came into the SPL totally unprepared. This season Hearts were stickons for relegation.

Next season there will be a relegation place and a playoff place. We have been farting about in the bottom six for years. You can only do that for so long before you end up holding the short straw. We have no money to turn things round. We will be going into next season with the same clueless Board of Directors, a management team that has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of improving results in the short time it has been here, and a set of players who will either be the same as this year, or fished from exactly the same pool as the current squad.

FFS let TB build his own team before you write us off next season.

[The Falcon]

Absolutely correct :top marks We're talking about a winning mentality and high performance culture in everything the club does. After 7 years, the malaise at ER is almost palpable. The Board's decisions and behaviours have set this tone.

Which ones in particular?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Todays result does not drag us into play off contention the teams below us have not managed to gain very much on us in last 10 games so i cant see much changing in next 10.

This does not include todays games but all below us are getting beat so no gain on us for any of them today.


Current Form Gide SPL
Last 10 matches (overall)



P
W
D
L
GF
GA
Dif
Pts


1
Celtic (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=3)
10
9

1
30
2
+28
27


2
Aberdeen (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=1)
10
7
1
2
12
8
+4
22


3
Dundee Utd (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=8)
10
5
3
2
18
15
+3
18


4
Motherwell (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=12)
10
5
2
3
21
18
+3
17


5
Ross County (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=4)
10
4
3
3
15
14
+1
15


6
Partick Thistle (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=7)
10
3
5
2
17
13
+4
14


7
St Johnstone (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=9)
10
4
1
5
10
10

13


8
Inverness (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=5)
10
3
3
4
7
12
-5
12


9
Kilmarnock (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=2)
10
2
3
5
12
19
-7
9


10
Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=10)
10
2
2
6
11
20
-9
8


11
St Mirren (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=6)
10
2
1
7
9
17
-8
7


12
Hibernian (http://www.hibs.net/team.asp?league=scotland&teamid=11)
10
1
4
5
12
21
-9
7







the worst defence in the league, i'm sick and tired of saying it but...build a ****** defence in the summer Mr Butcher, it must be demoralising for a pretty decent defender having to train/watch the lack of quality in our defence, hopefully we're not playing a team next week that can't even buy a point, we all know how hibs teams are world famous for showing benevolence to teams that are struggling, don't we

[weonlywon6-2]

butcher out hibs.net in

[mutley]

So, this weekend, ALL top 6 teams get a win

[Scouse Hibee]

You have diagnosed the problem whats the cure ?


He hasn't diagnosed anything!

[neil7908]

this is it exactly.As much as we are all hurting terry need to get his own players in cause what he was left with was rubbish

I agree Terry needs a chance to bring on his own players and to clear the decks but a couple of things trouble me I have to admit :

1) He signed 3 players in January and I would say only 1 looks to be better than we have. Every manager makes poor signings but that was a first chance for him to stamp his mark on the team and it hasn't worked.

2) I accept that fenlon left a squad that didn't have a lot of quality but it's concerning that they seem to have regressed under Butcher, a supposedly better manager. I wasn't expecting miracles from him and this team this season but we're on a very dangerous slide at the moment and he seems unable to turn it around.

Butcher definitely still needs time but it wouldn't be honest of me to say I'm 100% confident for next season.

[Greencore]

butcher out hibs.net in
Agree. The admins can decide the tactics. the longest serving member decides the strip design and the members decide the team via a poll :greengrin

BUTCHER OUT!!!

:top marks

[jakeshibs]

Hell has to freeze over 1st for that to happen.

RP has already agreed the budget to TB it was part of his signing deal, so money is available as he has always made it in the past!

[Pretty Boy]

So, this weekend, ALL top 6 teams get a win

Tbh that doesn't surprise me. The top 6 teams are all far better than the bottom 6 teams and the league table reflects this to be the case over the whole season.

[Islington Hibs]

Unfortunately this just isn't true. Last season Dundee were stickons for relegation because they came into the SPL totally unprepared. This season Hearts were stickons for relegation.

Next season there will be a relegation place and a playoff place. We have been farting about in the bottom six for years. You can only do that for so long before you end up holding the short straw. We have no money to turn things round. We will be going into next season with the same clueless Board of Directors, a management team that has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of improving results in the short time it has been here, and a set of players who will either be the same as this year, or fished from exactly the same pool as the current squad.


I agree. Season sales are almost certain to be well down so little cash and a team that needs a complete overhaul. I wouldn't be overly confident, but then again the bar is pretty low so you never know.

[hibbymick]

The thing is mate. We bring in a fresh batch of players and they don't attempt to play any football either. And people still believe that there's not meddling from above.

What meddling do you believe is coming from above ?

[Golden Bear]

This can be shortened to Ryan McGivern is pish.

:agree:

A total liability to boot. He looked a great player when he first arrived as a loan player but he's another signing who soon caught Hibsitis and he's went downhill ever since.

[kdhibees1]

Bucking Foooooooooooooooooooooo

[blackpoolhibs]

What meddling do you believe is coming from above ?

He just opens his hole and spouts a load of crap matey, i cant wait to hear what this answer is and his facts to back it up. :greengrin

[Dalkeith]

Unfortunately this just isn't true. Last season Dundee were stickons for relegation because they came into the SPL totally unprepared. This season Hearts were stickons for relegation.

Next season there will be a relegation place and a playoff place. We have been farting about in the bottom six for years. You can only do that for so long before you end up holding the short straw. We have no money to turn things round. We will be going into next season with the same clueless Board of Directors, a management team that has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of improving results in the short time it has been here, and a set of players who will either be the same as this year, or fished from exactly the same pool as the current squad.

excuse the pun but nail on head for me, just need to look at the 4 teams above us and ask what do they have that we don't, it's not crowds and it's not money but they all seem to get more out of their mangers and players than we do.

[Northernhibee]

:agree:

A total liability to boot. He looked a great player when he first arrived as a loan player but he's another signing who soon caught Hibsitis and he's went downhill ever since.

Rather than harming the confidence of players further I'm desperate to know why so many good players have gone off the boil for us. Seek out the cause, not the symptom.

McGivern is a footballer who has played well at Championship level.

[Onion]

Agree. The admins can decide the tactics. the longest serving member decides the strip design and the members decide the team via a poll :greengrin

BUTCHER OUT!!!

:top marks

BDO in, Petrie/Butcher Out. And let the Admin's decide the tactics. Cheaper, same result :aok:

[Thecat23]

RP has already agreed the budget to TB it was part of his signing deal, so money is available as he has always made it in the past!

This isn't exactly true mate. They spoke about it and it depends who they move on to who comes in. He has 9 targets that he wants and if we lose out and start getting his 2nd and 3rd choices then for me next season is done before it started.

If he does get them I'm 100% confident we will do well.

[Greencore]

BDO in, Petrie/Butcher Out. And let the Admin's decide the tactics. Cheaper, same result :aok:haha :aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

23 points behind the sheep is diabolical, and they have played two games less as well...shame on whoever is responsible

[Golden Bear]

Rather than harming the confidence of players further I'm desperate to know why so many good players have gone off the boil for us. Seek out the cause, not the symptom.

McGivern is a footballer who has played well at Championship level.

:agree:

I don't have the answer but it is alarming that so many good professionals with a reasonable pedigree fail to shine at ER.

[Ronniekirk]

this is it exactly.As much as we are all hurting terry need to get his own players in cause what he was left with was rubbish

He has now taken us into complete Free-fall Hayes is a player he brought in and has done nothing in past few weeks when we have needed his experience Send off today and assume sheer frustration .McGivern own goal doesn't surprise me ,as he just keeps getting worse .Haven't read posts so no idea if he brought on any young players .But there is no place for us to go .I won't be putting money on us beating Hearts next week as don't see where the confidence to do so will come from .Other Results were probably going to go our way with all bottom six clubs getting beat ,but if we are relying on that week in week out we really have a problem .The under 20 s are winning week in week out can they really do any worse than this lot You would keep Stanton and Williams Who else ? the fact we can't score tells us everything this is just making it more difficult to attract quality players for next season with defeats and no goals .

[Nailrod]

FFS let TB build his own team before you write us off next season.FFS haven't we been through this enough times by now? WHAT IS HE GOING TO BUILD 'HIS OWN TEAM' WITH???

If he was the kind of managerial miracle worker that so many fans are so determined to believe then we wouldn't be looking at 1 win in 12, and we wouldn't be stuck in the bottom 6, and we wouldn't be looking over our shoulders and hoping somebody else is going to keep us out of the playoff place.

The guy is just a human being. Come this summer he will be shopping in exactly the same market as we have been shopping in for the last x years, only with even less money as crowds are down, season ticket sales will be down, and we had no cup runs to add a little extra to the kitty.

Where is he going to find this 'team of his own' filled with overperforming superhumans?

[Pretty Boy]

23 points behind the sheep is diabolical, and they have played two games less as well...shame on whoever is responsible

We were 3 points ahead of them in the final table last year as well.

Whilst they sorted themselves out in the summer we persisted with a guy who was clearly a dud.

[Saorsa]

We were 3 points ahead of them in the final table last year as well.

Whilst they sorted themselves out in the summer Petrie persisted with another guy who was clearly a dud.I think that is a bit mair accurate.

[Beefster]

I'm hearing he's strolling through the game. Head and shoulders above anyone on the park.

Well I've not heard it yet but no doubt will later.

He's not played for the first team for months. Thomson would be way down the list of those responsible for us being pish.

[hibsitis]

:agree:

A total liability to boot. He looked a great player when he first arrived as a loan player but he's another signing who soon caught Hibsitis and he's went downhill ever since.

Are you saying this is a bad thing........:wink:?

[ionahibby]

I'm sorry but i don't believe all this "once butcher gets his own players in all will be fine" rubbish that most folk are saying. On paper we have a decent squad yet in the matter of weeks every player lacks confidence and ability so it must be something butcher is doing behind the scenes? I don't believe all this "it's the boards fault" that most seem to rely on here on .net. I like butcher and really thought he was the man but I'm losing faith in him now pretty rapidly! How hard can it be to get these guys playing standard football instead of the dross that is being served up?

[stevejordan]

We were 3 points ahead of them in the final table last year as well.

Whilst they sorted themselves out in the summer we persisted with a guy who was clearly a dud.

How can Petrie manage to appoint so many Dud Managers it is not possible these Managers have all had Pedigree of some sort prior to arriving at our door step their must be some other factor that is causing all these Managers to turn into Duds.

Aberdeen have had a few Duds in recent years as well im wondering if it is Pure Luck that they have got it so right getting better every week whilst we are getting worse week upon week.

[Brooster]

Complete garbage today. Murdoch and Thomson were Hibs best players and Heff was ok. The rest were horrendous.

[Greencore]

I'm sorry but i don't believe all this "once butcher gets his own players in all will be fine" rubbish that most folk are saying. On paper we have a decent squad yet in the matter of weeks every player lacks confidence and ability so it must be something butcher is doing behind the scenes? I don't believe all this "it's the boards fault" that most seem to rely on here on .net. I like butcher and really thought he was the man but I'm losing faith in him now pretty rapidly! How hard can it be to get these guys playing standard football instead of the dross that is being served up?
It's not the boards fault. It's Fenlons fault. Once Terry Butcher gets his own stamp on the club then we will improve. proof? Take a look at inverness at the start of this season, they were doing great, getting good solid results, reached a semi final with TB in charge. Then what happened? Yogi took over and now look at them. They went so long without a goal before today's result. Terry will get it right, he has Experience in the Scottish game. What else can we do, we are no Celtic or Rangers, we don't have glory hunting fans, we live within our means. Should we just break the bank and go wild and throw money at players. I'm not criticizing your post or anything like that, but as long as your a hibs fan you and I have no choice but to back the manager.

[HappyAsHellas]

We are where we are because of our squad and their performances. We are slightly better overall than the 5 teams below us and a bit worse than the six above us. I still believe over the summer we need to concentrate on bringing in a few quality players as opposed to a whole new squad. Time to press panic buttons or string people up........nah that's just a bit silly.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

Complete garbage today. Murdoch and Thomson were Hibs best players and Heff was ok. The rest were horrendous.

Thomson? He offered absolutely nothing along with the rest of the imposters.

Heff was equally terrible with little control.

Every player was second to the ball today.

First time where I've thought players weren't trying. Pretty worrying and shambolic.

Craig can't play for us again and McGivern can't be far behind him.


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

[Hibercelona]

We are where we are because of our squad and their performances. We are slightly better overall than the 5 teams below us and a bit worse than the six above us. I still believe over the summer we need to concentrate on bringing in a few quality players as opposed to a whole new squad. Time to press panic buttons or string people up........nah that's just a bit silly.

I don't think we are better than them to be honest. I think we "were" better than them, but now we're worse.

I can't see where our next win is going to come from against anyone. Where as the other clubs below us are capable of beating one another.

Sorry to sound so glum, but it's how I honestly see it.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think we are better than them to be honest. I think we "were" better than them, but now we're worse.

I can't see where our next win is going to come from against anyone. Where as the other clubs below us are capable of beating one another.

Sorry to sound so glum, but it's how I honestly see it.

No mention of the meddling? :confused: When you thought we were better than them, was that down to the meddling from above or not?

[Scouse Hibee]

FFS haven't we been through this enough times by now? WHAT IS HE GOING TO BUILD 'HIS OWN TEAM' WITH???

If he was the kind of managerial miracle worker that so many fans are so determined to believe then we wouldn't be looking at 1 win in 12, and we wouldn't be stuck in the bottom 6, and we wouldn't be looking over our shoulders and hoping somebody else is going to keep us out of the playoff place.

The guy is just a human being. Come this summer he will be shopping in exactly the same market as we have been shopping in for the last x years, only with even less money as crowds are down, season ticket sales will be down, and we had no cup runs to add a little extra to the kitty.

Where is he going to find this 'team of his own' filled with overperforming superhumans?

When Butcher was appointed everyone was saying how they hoped he would be able to unearth some decent players for us like he did for ICT. No-one has said he is a miracle worker nor have they ever suggested he will be shopping in the elite market. Granted he's had a crap start, we have to wait and see what he can do when he manages to bring in new players and make wholesale changes, there is no other option so let him get on with it!

[Hibercelona]

No mention of the meddling? :confused: When you thought we were better than them, was that down to the meddling from above or not?

I said we were better. I didn't say we were anywhere near as good as we should be as a club.

Why is that? Why are we never as good as we should be, regardless of managers or players?

What do you think the reason is? If it's not an issue further up, then why does a carbon copy of the same problems remain, regardless of managerial and player changes?

[blackpoolhibs]

I said we were better. I didn't say we were anywhere near as good as we should be as a club.

Why is that? Why are we never as good as we should be, regardless of managers or players?

What do you think the reason is? If it's not an issue further up, then why does a carbon copy of the same problems remain, regardless of managerial and player changes?

**** managers bringing **** players to the club, its not rocket science. Which manager has not been backed since you started supporting the club?

[mcfly]

No one can surprised by today's result and to be honest I'm not at all confident that this team can beat hearts next week.

What I would try though is forster and McGivern in central defence.

Can't be any worse than what we have.

Season has been another disaster and the fans deserve so much better

I've not renewed my ticket yet and am struggling to remain positive as we are in free fall and there doesn't seem to be anything the manager can do about it.

Surely they can show a bit of fight next week and relegate them

[yeezus.]

No one can surprised by today's result and to be honest I'm not at all confident that this team can beat hearts next week.

What I would try though is forster and McGivern in central defence.

Can't be any worse than what we have.

Season has been another disaster and the fans deserve so much better

I've not renewed my ticket yet and am struggling to remain positive as we are in free fall and there doesn't seem to be anything the manager can do about it.

Surely they can show a bit of fight next week and relegate them

Excellent post. I really hope we can raise our game next week but I have an awful feeling we will play out a 0-0 draw.

[Hibercelona]

**** managers bringing **** players to the club, its not rocket science. Which manager has not been backed since you started supporting the club?

You base manager *****ness on what exactly? Their time here?

Most of the managers we've appointed over the past several years have had strong track records elsewhere. So don't try telling me that they were all simply *****, because that's just *****.

[truehibernian]

No one can surprised by today's result and to be honest I'm not at all confident that this team can beat hearts next week.

What I would try though is forster and McGivern in central defence.

Can't be any worse than what we have.

Season has been another disaster and the fans deserve so much better

I've not renewed my ticket yet and am struggling to remain positive as we are in free fall and there doesn't seem to be anything the manager can do about it.

Surely they can show a bit of fight next week and relegate them

McGivern hasn't jumped and attacked a ball all season, starting with young Paterson's goal at Tynie, right through to today - Ryan has been atrocious this season. He wouldn't be anywhere and I mean anywhere near my squad.

[blackpoolhibs]

You base manager *****ness on what exactly? Their time here?

Most of the managers we've appointed over the past several years have had strong track records elsewhere. So don't try telling me that they were all simply *****, because that's just *****.

Once again you open your mouth and just talk complete bollox.

Mowbray no track record as a manager, Mixu no track record at any level bar Cowdenbeath. Collins no track record as a manager, Calderwood, no track record as a manager John Hughes a good record at first division level and did well to keep Falkirk in the SPL.

[Hibercelona]

Once again you open your mouth and just talk complete bollox.

Mowbray no track record as a manager, Mixu no track record at any level bar Cowdenbeath. Collins no track record as a manager, Calderwood, no track record as a manager John Hughes a good record at first division level and did well to keep Falkirk in the SPL.

Mixu - Guided Cowdenbeath to their first title win in 67 years.

Hughes - Gained Falkirk promotion into the SPL in 2005 and kept them there for 4 seasons, despite their limited budget.

Fenlon - Won titles and domestic cups with Bohemians. (Dundee Utd even tried to appoint him)

Butcher - Brought ICT up from the championship and had them challenging 2nd place in the league.

That's 4 managers out of the 6 (since Mowbray) that have proven that they're capable of getting clubs to punch above their weight.

Something 3 of them have failed to do since coming here. And something that Butcher is showing no sign of what so ever at the moment.

I don't believe that most of the managers have simply been crap, I believe that something else must be going on that effects the way we play, despite managers and players.

[jacomo]

McGivern hasn't jumped and attacked a ball all season, starting with young Paterson's goal at Tynie, right through to today - Ryan has been atrocious this season. He wouldn't be anywhere and I mean anywhere near my squad.

He's been a massive disappointment. Should be showing much more than he has IMO.

Another disappointment is this season in its entirety. When you think how we started, to not make top six is really poor.

[Kaiser1962]

Aberdeen have had a few Duds in recent years as well im wondering if it is Pure Luck that they have got it so right getting better every week whilst we are getting worse week upon week.

Since Aberdeen last won the league cup in 1996 they have had 10 managers compared to our 12, which includes Miller who left in August 96 and Sauzee who only lasted two months.

[blackpoolhibs]

Mixu - Guided Cowdenbeath to their first title win in 67 years.

Nowhere near the standard of Hibs

Hughes - Gained Falkirk promotion into the SPL in 2005 and kept them there for 4 seasons, despite their limited budget.

I accepted this.

Fenlon - Won titles and domestic cups with Bohemians. (Dundee Utd even tried to appoint him)

Nowhere near the standard of Hibs

Butcher - Brought ICT up from the championship and had them challenging 2nd place in the league.

Still using the last clowns players.

That's 4 managers out of the 6 (since Mowbray) that have proven that they're capable of getting clubs to punch above their weight.

Something 3 of them have failed to do since coming here. And something that Butcher is showing no sign of what so ever at the moment.

I don't believe that most of the managers have simply been crap, I believe that something else must be going on that effects the way we play, despite managers and players.

You dont believe the managers are crap, so then believe something else must be wrong. You then throw in a bomb about meddling from above, yet dont give any evidence?

What meddling went on when Mowbray was here?

[Hibercelona]

You dont believe the managers are crap, so then believe something else must be wrong. You then throw in a bomb about meddling from above, yet dont give any evidence?

What meddling went on when Mowbray was here?

It doesn't matter what level a manager succeeds at, because they're restricted to a budget for that level.

A manager succeeding at any level with a club that doesn't normally pick up any success, shows that the manager is capable of making a team punch above it's own budget. So it's only natural that we went for those managers.

You may not have realized it, but our business model was quite a bit different during the Mowbray era. There were more people involved higher up than there are now. This is because Tom Farmer reduced the numbers at board level as a cost cutting measure.

As for giving you an example of meddling, you know that I can't. But I never claimed to have any examples to give, otherwise I would have done so. My opinion is purely theoretical, nobody has to agree with it.

[blackpoolhibs]

It doesn't matter what level a manager succeeds at, because they're restricted to a budget for that level.

Do you know the budget Mixu had at Cowdenbeath? I dont but i do know Fenlon had the biggest budget in the Irish league by quite a margin. We may just as well go after Ally McCoist for our next man, he knows what its like to spend more than most, and can win a diddy league in doing so. Mixu also said the job was too early for him, and had to go away and learn more before taking the Kilmarnock job.

A manager succeeding at any level with a club that doesn't normally pick up any success, shows that the manager is capable of making a team punch above it's own budget. So it's only natural that we went for those managers.

Not always the case, Kilmarnock appointed Alan Johnston he's hardly set the world on fire, while Jackie McNamara has done well. Its not a given that you pick up someone who's done well in a lower league he will do well when stepping up.

You may not have realized it, but our business model was quite a bit different during the Mowbray era. There were more people involved higher up than there are now. This is because Tom Farmer reduced the numbers at board level as a cost cutting measure.

And that makes what difference?

As for giving you an example of meddling, you know that I can't. But I never claimed to have any examples to give, otherwise I would have done so. My opinion is purely theoretical, nobody has to agree with it.

Well if you are going to make a statement about something as serious as meddling from above, at least have some evidence to back it up, or expect someone to poke holes in it as i did.

You also failed to answer my question i posed you earlier, which managers have not been backed?

[ehf]

Excellent post. I really hope we can raise our game next week but I have an awful feeling we will play out a 0-0 draw.

I'd bite your arm off for a 0-0 right now.

[mcfly]

McGivern hasn't jumped and attacked a ball all season, starting with young Paterson's goal at Tynie, right through to today - Ryan has been atrocious this season. He wouldn't be anywhere and I mean anywhere near my squad.

Disagree he is a centre back and if I'm correct he was o/s when he played there v hearts before.

The defence is hopeless anyway so what have we to lose??

Club is in free fall - something very very wrong.

[truehibernian]

Disagree he is a centre back and if I'm correct he was o/s when he played there v hearts before.

The defence is hopeless anyway so what have we to lose??

Club is in free fall - something very very wrong.

I'm talking about his defending, in general - look back at the goals we have conceded recently and more than a fair few are attributed to Ryan either not closing down quickly enough, or attacking the ball at set piece deliveries. Against Killie he was skinned by a through ball where he was too deep and didn't lunge with his body to make the attacker think or hesitate prior to shooting, against Partick he failed to jump against Mair for their second, today he again failed to attack the ball. I'm pretty sure he allowed Sutton to get in before him for their first in the 3-3 game too.

He does not anticipate, attack or jump - three basic components for good defending.

If I were Locke next week, I'd say to Smith and Nicolson, take on Forster and McGivern time and time again, and I think that will be their tactic. They'll get the ball out wide at any opportunity, up against a centre back at right back and a left back who is well off the pace.

Black and Baptie in for me - and I pray to God that Watmore is available, even Alex Harris too.

[leggeto]

Can anyone who braved the game tell me why Haynes got sent off ?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Can anyone who braved the game tell me why Haynes got sent off ?

Stamped on Wotherspoon......

[The Pointer]

While I currently support Butcher and (let's not forget) Malpas cause they're just in the door, the least I expected was grit and determination and playing the ball on the ground, i.e. football, but we're not even getting that. I once made the mistake of referring to footballers as 'professional athletes' and was reminded that they're not, they're 'professional footballers' so I wonder what they do all week in the parallel universe that is East Mains.

I was looking forward to next weekend but now am sh*tting myself. At least they'll be motivated, as they always are, and have scored the odd goal recently. Make no mistake, they'll be right up for it, but I'd like to think Butcher, unlike Fenlon, will have our guys baying for blood.

[leggeto]

Stamped on Wotherspoon......

do you think he meant it,what a helmet if he did

[BSEJVT]

No, it's not. This team is not worse than, say Calderwoods? Duff Jimmys?

This team is far worse than Duff Jimmys

fortunately so are the teams below us in the league

There are half a dozen players in duff Jimmys team that would walk into this side.

Hughes Harper Crawford Lavety Mcginlay Charnley Rougier without thinking too hard

[Calum68]

I'd bite your arm off for a 0-0 right now.

After watching that performance yesterday I would agree. Can't see where we'll get goals from and our defence leaks goals.

[Houchy]

Stick McGivern up front, he's obviously got an eye for goal and we'll concede less goals in the process. All good!! Champions 2014/15 lol.

[Houchy]

23 points behind the sheep is diabolical, and they have played two games less as well...shame on whoever is responsible

Aye, but their chairman admitted they had massive debts. What did fergus McCann do to turn septic around from staring into the abyss to their current position? I know it's unlikely but RP needs to trust the fans to back the club if x amount of season tickets are sold ie, I'll put up £2m for players as long as 9,000 or 10,000 season tickets are sold and I'll do that every season as long as we continue selling 10,000 per year. This would allow TB to identify and bring in players for the full pre season rather than picking up the last minute rejects that no one else wants. As I say, just an idea but I know it's not the way RP operates.

[The Falcon]

Aye, but their chairman admitted they had massive debts. What did fergus McCann do to turn septic around from staring into the abyss to their current position? I know it's unlikely but RP needs to trust the fans to back the club if x amount of season tickets are sold ie, I'll put up £2m for players as long as 9,000 or 10,000 season tickets are sold and I'll do that every season as long as we continue selling 10,000 per year. This would allow TB to identify and bring in players for the full pre season rather than picking up the last minute rejects that no one else wants. As I say, just an idea but I know it's not the way RP operates.

Who pays the £2m?

[blackpoolhibs]

Who pays the £2m?

Season ticket sales.

[Onceinawhile]

Just watched the highlights. 2-0 didn't do St Johnstone justice, Murdoch has made some fantastic saves.

[The Falcon]

Season ticket sales.

The manager already gets the ST money?

[NOLA]

just going on the highlights Boateng looks well out of his depth.

[Saorsa]

so you never really saw that at all? :wink:

[GreenOnions]

Aye, but their chairman admitted they had massive debts. What did fergus McCann do to turn septic around from staring into the abyss to their current position? I know it's unlikely but RP needs to trust the fans to back the club if x amount of season tickets are sold ie, I'll put up £2m for players as long as 9,000 or 10,000 season tickets are sold and I'll do that every season as long as we continue selling 10,000 per year. This would allow TB to identify and bring in players for the full pre season rather than picking up the last minute rejects that no one else wants. As I say, just an idea but I know it's not the way RP operates.

I thought it was exactly the way Rod Petrie operates. Season ticket money goes straight to the player budget. That's been said many a time - presumably because salaries need to be paid throughout the year. We cannot take on new players based on the number of walk-ups we might get.

As we generally sell more than £2m of season tickets he's actually offering more than you're asking for :confused:

The problem has not been lack of investment in bringing in players - it's been lack of investment in bringing in the necessary quality of management. Hopefully that has changed now.