The Petrie Cycle and the similarities of Collins, Hughes and Fenlon

[Paloschi]

I posted something similar to this on another thread but as I was writing it I felt it deserved discussion on a thread of it's own.

The cycle starts with the departure of Tony Mowbray. He was the only Manager that does not fit the cycle as he consistently had us playing good football, getting good results with a few bad ones mixed in. Mainly due to the amount Hearts were spending in his second season.

He leaves. Petrie Replaces him with John Collins during the 2006/07 season.

Collins comes in, shows immediate ambition. We win a cup which was amazing. The players then revolted, we all know the the general story here. Players left, Petrie sold them on. Collins had to build a new team. Despite all of this and Collins signed new players and we were top of the league in late October of the following season 07/08. Tommy Craig then said 'we can't keep this up forever.' That was the turning point. We lost confidence ended going from 1st to 9th in the league Collins resigned citing lack of backing and ambition from Petrie which can be a fair point. However the management team failed us that season. Mixu came in, our form improved and we achieved 6th which at the time was a major let down for us.

The next season (2008/09) came and went with Mixu building a team that was average at best. He sacked for his mediocrity and was replaced by good old John 'Yogi' Hughes.

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.

Similar to Collins reign we are on top of the world and then we go into free fall and have to salvage and scramble to finish in a respectable position. Players, good players, including Stokes leave and Hughes replaces them with the likes of Duffy, Trakys and Gow. Next season we struggle bit time. Hughes is sacked half way through the 2010/11 season and replaced by Colin Caldwerwood.

Calderwood didn't do well. He was the Mixu in between but was much worse. He was sacked during the 2011/12 season and does not deserve another sentence.

Petrie acquired Pat Fenlon in November of 2011. We just about survived relegation as a result of working with Calderwood's numpties. We lose a cup final 5-1 with a lot of Fenlon loan players and we start to rebuild again.

Pat rebuilds Hibs. He makes alot of signings. We are top of the league in the 2012/13 season in November after beating Dundee United 2-1 at Easter Road. Griffiths goals are carrying the team but our midfield and defence look solid. Then it all goes wrong again. We lose games for fun. We rely on Griffiths goals as we did with Riordan under Hiughes in his second season. We struggle to finish 7th.

We again lost key players heading into the 2013/14 season. Griffiths, Claros and Doyle are replaced with Vine, Tudur-Jones and Collins. We make a poor start and Fenlon is replaced with Terry Butcher

Butcher comes in and makes a Mixu like start winning and drawing a few games with the odd defeat. He then does a bit of a Calderwood and loses a few. He signals his intention to rebuild the Hibs team again.

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.

Can Terry get us out of it? I hope so... BUT what if he does? Will we then get rid of our top players again, replace them with a poorer standard and we again enter the cycle?

As a club, with the current board, no matter what manager comes in there is always going to be similarities. With Petrie we will always rebuild and if results do improve something will go wrong or we will lack the ambition necessary to succeed.

Change is needed.

[Speedway]

I hate to point this out after such effort being taken by the OP but because of the size of club Hibs are and the money that is available in the game in Scotland, any quality we ever have in player and management staff will be moved on because the players will want to play elsewhere and the club will spend the same amount on their replacements as they did on the original player - as little as possible.

In short, Hibs are a small club who have never sustained success and it's hard to make a case for how they ever will.

We live for the moments of glory.

[Jones28]

Not saying anything that hasn't been said before. We've got everything any club needs for success thanks to Petrie. So now that we've got these building blocks in place it's time to focus on the team.

This constant Petrie bashing is boring and although in some cases justified, it's managers who are responsible for the team on the park.

[Hibstrooper]

Change is needed.

The change that is needed is that we all (board & fans) back the manager and give him time to build a team.

Those expecting miracles in the summer - you know what it might happen (great) but if not we need to still stand behind TB. It took him 4 years to build his ICT team.

[Stevie Reid]

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.


Statto alert - the bit in bold isn't true, we couldn't have gone top by beating Rangers that day, and our league results immediately following that 4-1 home defeat to them were: -



SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

1 – 1

Heart of Midlothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
3 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.)

1 – 0

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Tannadice Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannadice_Park), Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee)
16 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

5 – 1

Hamilton Academical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Academical_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
23 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)

1 – 2

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Celtic Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Park), Glasgow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow)
27 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 1

St. Mirren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
30 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 2

Aberdeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
10 February 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





It was the 3-0 defeat at Ibrox that was the real point where the downturn began (a game we actually played well in, the scoreline flattered Rangers) - after that, in our remaining 15 league games we won three, drew two, and lost ten, including 6 defeats in a row at one point. We also only dropped as low as 5th in our 35th match of the season, before regaining 4th spot on the last day of the season.

Also, before that 4-1 defeat to Rangers we had only conceded 11 goals in 16 league games, so your point about our defence in the early part of the season is also incorrect - it was horrendous latterly though.

[Golden Bear]

I posted something similar to this on another thread but as I was writing it I felt it deserved discussion on a thread of it's own.

The cycle starts with the departure of Tony Mowbray. He was the only Manager that does not fit the cycle as he consistently had us playing good football, getting good results with a few bad ones mixed in. Mainly due to the amount Hearts were spending in his second season.

He leaves. Petrie Replaces him with John Collins during the 2006/07 season.

Collins comes in, shows immediate ambition. We win a cup which was amazing. The players then revolted, we all know the the general story here. Players left, Petrie sold them on. Collins had to build a new team. Despite all of this and Collins signed new players and we were top of the league in late October of the following season 07/08. Tommy Craig then said 'we can't keep this up forever.' That was the turning point. We lost confidence ended going from 1st to 9th in the league Collins resigned citing lack of backing and ambition from Petrie which can be a fair point. However the management team failed us that season. Mixu came in, our form improved and we achieved 6th which at the time was a major let down for us.

The next season (2008/09) came and went with Mixu building a team that was average at best. He sacked for his mediocrity and was replaced by good old John 'Yogi' Hughes.

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.

Similar to Collins reign we are on top of the world and then we go into free fall and have to salvage and scramble to finish in a respectable position. Players, good players, including Stokes leave and Hughes replaces them with the likes of Duffy, Trakys and Gow. Next season we struggle bit time. Hughes is sacked half way through the 2010/11 season and replaced by Colin Caldwerwood.

Calderwood didn't do well. He was the Mixu in between but was much worse. He was sacked during the 2011/12 season and does not deserve another sentence.

Petrie acquired Pat Fenlon in November of 2011. We just about survived relegation as a result of working with Calderwood's numpties. We lose a cup final 5-1 with a lot of Fenlon loan players and we start to rebuild again.

Pat rebuilds Hibs. He makes alot of signings. We are top of the league in the 2012/13 season in November after beating Dundee United 2-1 at Easter Road. Griffiths goals are carrying the team but our midfield and defence look solid. Then it all goes wrong again. We lose games for fun. We rely on Griffiths goals as we did with Riordan under Hiughes in his second season. We struggle to finish 7th.

We again lost key players heading into the 2013/14 season. Griffiths, Claros and Doyle are replaced with Vine, Tudur-Jones and Collins. We make a poor start and Fenlon is replaced with Terry Butcher

Butcher comes in and makes a Mixu like start winning and drawing a few games with the odd defeat. He then does a bit of a Calderwood and loses a few. He signals his intention to rebuild the Hibs team again.

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.

Can Terry get us out of it? I hope so... BUT what if he does? Will we then get rid of our top players again, replace them with a poorer standard and we again enter the cycle?

As a club, with the current board, no matter what manager comes in there is always going to be similarities. With Petrie we will always rebuild and if results do improve something will go wrong or we will lack the ambition necessary to succeed.

Change is needed.

Yes, RP has been the common denominator throughout and yes, change is needed (starting with a winning team that plays attractive and entertaining football)

However the saving graces for RP are:-

His Managerial appointments were all met with the general approval of fans.

The BOARD has financially backed each of the Managers, maybe not to the degree we would have liked but certainly to the extent that we should have expected much much better results that what's been achieved.

Is it not the case that the financial resources were wasted in so far as the incoming players were neither up to standard nor had any real desire to play for Hibernian FC? Soccer mercenaries in other words.

I appreciate that things are far from perfect and in an ideal word I would prefer a real football man to be at the helm of the Club but we could do a lot worse.

[Paloschi]

Statto alert - the bit in bold isn't true, our league results immediately following that 4-1 home defeat to Rangers were: -



SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

1 – 1

Heart of Midlothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
3 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.)

1 – 0

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Tannadice Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannadice_Park), Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee)
16 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

5 – 1

Hamilton Academical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Academical_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
23 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)

1 – 2

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Celtic Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Park), Glasgow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow)
27 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 1

St. Mirren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
30 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 2

Aberdeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
10 February 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





It was the 3-0 defeat at Ibrox that was the real point where the downturn began (a game we actually played well in, the scoreline flattered Rangers) - after that, in our remaining 15 league games we won three, drew two, and lost ten, including 6 defeats in a row at one point. We also only dropped as low as 5th in our 35th match of the season, before regaining 4th spot on the last day of the season.

Thanks for that. I tried to do that all based on memory as i'm supposed to be working :wink: I thought we went on that run after that 1-4 game! at least I got the Rangers part right...

The main points still remain though!

[Stevie Reid]

Yes, RP has been the common denominator throughout and yes, change is needed (starting with a winning team that plays attractive and entertaining football)

However the saving graces for RP are:-

His Managerial appointments were all met with the general approval of fans.

The BOARD has financially backed each of the Managers, maybe not to the degree we would have liked but certainly to the extent that we should have expected much much better results that what's been achieved.

Is it not the case that the financial resources were wasted in so far as the incoming players were neither up to standard nor had any real desire to play for Hibernian FC? Soccer mercenaries in other words.

I appreciate that things are far from perfect and in an ideal word I would prefer a real football man to be at the helm of the Club but we could do a lot worse.

Can't argue with any of that.

[stevejordan]

I posted something similar to this on another thread but as I was writing it I felt it deserved discussion on a thread of it's own.

The cycle starts with the departure of Tony Mowbray. He was the only Manager that does not fit the cycle as he consistently had us playing good football, getting good results with a few bad ones mixed in. Mainly due to the amount Hearts were spending in his second season.

He leaves. Petrie Replaces him with John Collins during the 2006/07 season.

Collins comes in, shows immediate ambition. We win a cup which was amazing. The players then revolted, we all know the the general story here. Players left, Petrie sold them on. Collins had to build a new team. Despite all of this and Collins signed new players and we were top of the league in late October of the following season 07/08. Tommy Craig then said 'we can't keep this up forever.' That was the turning point. We lost confidence ended going from 1st to 9th in the league Collins resigned citing lack of backing and ambition from Petrie which can be a fair point. However the management team failed us that season. Mixu came in, our form improved and we achieved 6th which at the time was a major let down for us.

The next season (2008/09) came and went with Mixu building a team that was average at best. He sacked for his mediocrity and was replaced by good old John 'Yogi' Hughes.

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.

Similar to Collins reign we are on top of the world and then we go into free fall and have to salvage and scramble to finish in a respectable position. Players, good players, including Stokes leave and Hughes replaces them with the likes of Duffy, Trakys and Gow. Next season we struggle bit time. Hughes is sacked half way through the 2010/11 season and replaced by Colin Caldwerwood.

Calderwood didn't do well. He was the Mixu in between but was much worse. He was sacked during the 2011/12 season and does not deserve another sentence.

Petrie acquired Pat Fenlon in November of 2011. We just about survived relegation as a result of working with Calderwood's numpties. We lose a cup final 5-1 with a lot of Fenlon loan players and we start to rebuild again.

Pat rebuilds Hibs. He makes alot of signings. We are top of the league in the 2012/13 season in November after beating Dundee United 2-1 at Easter Road. Griffiths goals are carrying the team but our midfield and defence look solid. Then it all goes wrong again. We lose games for fun. We rely on Griffiths goals as we did with Riordan under Hiughes in his second season. We struggle to finish 7th.

We again lost key players heading into the 2013/14 season. Griffiths, Claros and Doyle are replaced with Vine, Tudur-Jones and Collins. We make a poor start and Fenlon is replaced with Terry Butcher

Butcher comes in and makes a Mixu like start winning and drawing a few games with the odd defeat. He then does a bit of a Calderwood and loses a few. He signals his intention to rebuild the Hibs team again.

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.

Can Terry get us out of it? I hope so... BUT what if he does? Will we then get rid of our top players again, replace them with a poorer standard and we again enter the cycle?

As a club, with the current board, no matter what manager comes in there is always going to be similarities. With Petrie we will always rebuild and if results do improve something will go wrong or we will lack the ambition necessary to succeed.

Change is needed.

Petrie does not pick the team and Petrie did not appoint Paddy and he works for free.

[Speedway]

What age was Rod when he took over at ER?

12214

[silverhibee]

Statto alert - the bit in bold isn't true, we couldn't have gone top by beating Rangers that day, and our league results immediately following that 4-1 home defeat to them were: -



SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

1 – 1

Heart of Midlothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
3 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.)

1 – 0

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Tannadice Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannadice_Park), Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee)
16 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

5 – 1

Hamilton Academical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Academical_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
23 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)

1 – 2

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Celtic Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Park), Glasgow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow)
27 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 1

St. Mirren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mirren_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
30 January 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





SPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2009%E2%80%9310)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 2

Aberdeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
10 February 2010

[show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Hibernian_F.C._season#)]





It was the 3-0 defeat at Ibrox that was the real point where the downturn began (a game we actually played well in, the scoreline flattered Rangers) - after that, in our remaining 15 league games we won three, drew two, and lost ten, including 6 defeats in a row at one point. We also only dropped as low as 5th in our 35th match of the season, before regaining 4th spot on the last day of the season.

Also, before that 4-1 defeat to Rangers we had only conceded 11 goals in 16 league games, so your point about our defence in the early part of the season is also incorrect - it was horrendous latterly though.

Yogi decided to change the team about for the Rangers game, dropped Wotherspoon and the lad was never the same player after that, did he play Hogg at right back that day.

[Stevie Reid]

Yogi decided to change the team about for the Rangers game, dropped Wotherspoon and the lad was never the same player after that, did he play Hogg at right back that day.

In October 2009 we drew 1-1 at Ibrox, and Wotherspoon played RB - Lafferty caused all sorts of bother in the air at the back post, so Yogi took Wotherspoon off and put Hogg at RB, which worked very well, and Wotherspoon's form was fine after that. He later dropped Wotherspoon and started with Hogg at RB the 3-0 game in February, and I can see why.

Wotherspoon's confidence did eventually dip, but those are his issues - every player in the world has to deal with being dropped at some point in their career, how you react to that defines you as a player.

[hibbydog]

Its not the Petrie cycle, its the cycle of all football clubs bar a few elite who can afford to keep their top players.

There is a food chain in football. We are where we are in it and we will always lose our best players to the old firm or down south. Our only hope is to get a few gems in at the same time (either good potential sourced on the cheap, or talent brought through our youth system) and win the odd cup.

I want better, but I dont think we will ever get out of the cycle for any sustained period of time. Its been like this for decades and i dont see it changing anytime soon.

[The Modfather]

Yes, RP has been the common denominator throughout and yes, change is needed (starting with a winning team that plays attractive and entertaining football)

However the saving graces for RP are:-

His Managerial appointments were all met with the general approval of fans.

I don't understand this defence at all. Petrie is there to make the right appointments not the popular ones. Appointments that we as fans have to visibility in the recruitment process.

[jacomo]

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.


Rod Petrie has done a great job over the past decade. Hibs were staring into the abyss in 2003 - we really were - with crippling debts and the very real possibility of leaving ER and a groundshare with them at Straiton.

(The very best thing about the current Hearts debacle is that Hibs is not involved in it. Imagine if we were sharing a ground with them now? They could have dragged us down with them.)

Anyhow... none of that happened. Helped by STF's benevolent ownership, the club was given time and space to get its affairs in order, with Farmer selling off the car park to clear a chunk of the debt. Rod cut costs and ring-fenced transfer income for infrastructure to rebuild the club's assets.

All very good - but I now think we do need a fresh direction, and that means fresh leadership. I am shocked at the absence of a coherent vision for the club, our weak scouting, very poor communication with fans, and a whole host of smaller things that suggest that the club is not really united behind a common aim.

Yes, of course the manager is primarily responsible for results on the park, but I think managing Hibs is a difficult job, made harder by some of the above. Good men have tried and failed to change things - I just don't think they can all be wrong.

[--------]

Petrie does not pick the team and Petrie did not appoint Paddy and he works for free.

Always take a long hard look at the man who works for nothing - he's usually worth every penny. :wink:

Petrie has been in charge for nearly 10 years now, which is a long time for any chairman of any football club.

I'm a great believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but it seems to me that things could have been an awful lot better at ER for a good few years now. Dougie Cromb hardly got the time to pick up his hat and coat at the end of HIS time. Petrie seems to be in with the bricks. And bricks - stadium, training ground, infrastructure - seem to be the only things he's good at.

BTW - DOES he actually take no fees?

[CropleyWasGod]

Always take a long hard look at the man who works for nothing - he's usually worth every penny. :wink:

Petrie has been in charge for nearly 10 years now, which is a long time for any chairman of any football club.

I'm a great believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but it seems to me that things could have been an awful lot better at ER for a good few years now. Dougie Cromb hardly got the time to pick up his hat and coat at the end of HIS time. Petrie seems to be in with the bricks. And bricks - stadium, training ground, infrastructure - seem to be the only things he's good at.

BTW - DOES he actually take no fees?

Yes.

[greenpaper55]

I think TF and Rod work to a different agenda to the average supporter, I would think that Rod has a brief to run Hibs without making a loss and if we do to trim the budgets accordingly. In this they have been successful so whats yer problem they would say, we have given you a ground to be proud of and a great place for the players to train but the tricky bit is getting the football part right which is what we are interested in and in my opinion they have not got a clue. How we break the cycle is very difficult with these two at the helm, they mean well but they are not football people and one way could be to bring in a director with some footballing background, the recent directors that got punted were no better than we have got just now and were just another bunch of business men with little football acumen so maybe it's worth a shot to bring in some new blood ?.

[--------]

Yes.


Like I said - worth every penny. :greengrin

[Nailrod]

Always take a long hard look at the man who works for nothing - he's usually worth every penny. :wink:
Petrie has been in charge for nearly 10 years now, which is a long time for any chairman of any football club...
Doddie, I know time compresses for auld lads like us, but Petrie has been MD, CEO or Chairman for 17 years now. And while he didn't join the board till 1996, as Farmer's right-hand man during the takeover he's been pulling the strings for more than 20 years.

[Nailrod]

Petrie does not pick the team and Petrie did not appoint Paddy and he works for free.
1. But he appointed the two guys who did appoint Paddy. Who were presumably earmarked as 'the succession'. And neither of them are at the club any more - I guess they were sacked for being rubbish at choosing managers. :hmmm:

2. As Doddie has implied, he works for what he's worth. The two most important tasks that the leader of an organization has are:

(a) Putting together a strong management team.
We have a leader who's so friggin useless that he has to disqualify himself from the single most important appointment decision that he has to make - not that it makes any difference, since the guys he's brought in to make the decision screw it up anyway. :hmmm:

(b)Ensuring his own succession
Rodders has been involved with the club for more than 20 years, and he's been running the show for at least 17. If he got run over by a bus tomorrow the options would be a beancounty woman, wotsisname, and a guy who runs a shop. :hmmm:

[jacomo]

I think TF and Rod work to a different agenda to the average supporter, I would think that Rod has a brief to run Hibs without making a loss and if we do to trim the budgets accordingly. In this they have been successful so whats yer problem they would say, we have given you a ground to be proud of and a great place for the players to train but the tricky bit is getting the football part right which is what we are interested in and in my opinion they have not got a clue. How we break the cycle is very difficult with these two at the helm, they mean well but they are not football people and one way could be to bring in a director with some footballing background, the recent directors that got punted were no better than we have got just now and were just another bunch of business men with little football acumen so maybe it's worth a shot to bring in some new blood ?.

It's been said many times before - this is not about money. It's about vision and leadership.

To be fair, Rod did take a step back a few years ago - ultimately responsible for the overall budget of the company and its long term sustainability, but delegating day-to-day running of the club to Scott Lindsay / Fife Hyland.

Scott and Fife were: Over-promoted and useless / forced to cope with an unworkable split between the 'football dept' and 'club dept' with two different bases / unable to bear an interfering boss who didn't let them get on with the job*

*delete as appropriate.

[Nailrod]

Scott and Fife were: Over-promoted and useless / forced to cope with an unworkable split between the 'football dept' and 'club dept' with two different bases / unable to bear an interfering boss who didn't let them get on with the job*

*delete as appropriate.Why do you need to delete any?

[stevejordan]

1. But he appointed the two guys who did appoint Paddy. Who were presumably earmarked as 'the succession'. And neither of them are at the club any more - I guess they were sacked for being rubbish at choosing managers. :hmmm:




2. As Doddie has implied, he works for what he's worth. The two most important tasks that the leader of an organization has are:

(a) Putting together a strong management team
We have a leader who's so friggin useless that he has to disqualify himself from the single most important appointment decision that he has to make - not that it makes any difference, since the guys he's brought in to make the decision screw it up anyway. :hmmm:


(b)Ensuring his own succession
Rodders has been involved with the club for more than 20 years, and he's been running the show for at least 17. If he got run over by a bus tomorrow the options would be a beancounty woman, wotsisname, and a guy who runs a shop. :hmmm:

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.

The only kop out was not signing Lee when we had the chance but that was before he went on a fantastic scoring run that earned him his place in the Scotland Squad.

Petrie did appoint Terry and most of us have agreed welcomed this appointment on paper it should work given time and backing.

The reality is if we were playing well and winning no one would be Petrie Bashing and its not Petrie that picks the team or kicks a ball.

[CropleyWasGod]

(b)Ensuring his own succession
Rodders has been involved with the club for more than 20 years, and he's been running the show for at least 17. If he got run over by a bus tomorrow the options would be a beancounty woman, wotsisname, and a guy who runs a shop. :hmmm:

Or it could be Option D... appointing someone from outside.

By the "beancounty woman", do you mean Amanda Jones? One of the best-respected employment lawyers around?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TheDirectors/0,,10290,00.html

[oregonhibby]

RP does not work for free.

[CropleyWasGod]

RP does not work for free.

Are the accounts wrong?

[oregonhibby]

No. He is just paid from elsewhere.

[Captain Trips]

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.

The only kop out was not signing Lee when we had the chance but that was before he went on a fantastic scoring run that earned him his place in the Scotland Squad.

Petrie did appoint Terry and most of us have agreed welcomed this appointment on paper it should work given time and backing.

The reality is if we were playing well and winning no one would be Petrie Bashing and its not Petrie that picks the team or kicks a ball.

Petrie bashing, Fenlon bashing, AN Other bashing, 20pts behind Aberdeen and Motherwell everyone involved at club has played part in that, no Hearts or Rangers we cant even look at 4th? Everyone at the club should be ashamed that we are so far out of it and have been for years, they deserve all the stick and then some.

[CropleyWasGod]

No. He is just paid from elsewhere.

This has been done to death. Where is he paid from?

[greenpaper55]

This has been done to death. Where is he paid from?

Do you think he should be paid 100k for whats on display ?.

[oregonhibby]

You are correct it has been and there is no point in starting another thread or hijacking this one. He does a lot of other work as well as that he does for Hibs within the broad framework of the larger empire.

He is one of the hardest working people I know and takes more flack than he deserves. However, as the Chair the buck stops with him, and he knows and expects it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you think he should be paid 100k for whats on display ?.

I'm not arguing his worth. I'm arguing the facts.

[silverhibee]

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.

The only kop out was not signing Lee when we had the chance but that was before he went on a fantastic scoring run that earned him his place in the Scotland Squad.

Petrie did appoint Terry and most of us have agreed welcomed this appointment on paper it should work given time and backing.

The reality is if we were playing well and winning no one would be Petrie Bashing and its not Petrie that picks the team or kicks a ball.


I don't even think Fenlon was 1st choice by the the 2 guys who supposedly appointed him, Petrie seemed to take the credit for Fenlon which he should as that is who he opted for out of the 2 that Lyndsay and Hyland had targeted.

[Diclonius]

I don't even think Fenlon was 1st choice by the the 2 guys who supposedly appointed him, Petrie seemed to take the credit for Fenlon which he should as that is who he opted for out of the 2 that Lyndsay and Hyland had targeted.

Who was?

[Captain Trips]

You are correct it has been and there is no point in starting another thread or hijacking this one. He does a lot of other work as well as that he does for Hibs within the broad framework of the larger empire.

He is one of the hardest working people I know and takes more flack than he deserves. However, as the Chair the buck stops with him, and he knows and expects it.

Regardless how hard he works is irrelevant or how much he is paid or not. Managers are sacked when things go wrong Fenlon was given a decent amount of time however compare that to those above the manager, we are now probably onto season 4 of rather pathetic finishes what is it 10th,11th and 7th and now currently 7th. Would we keep a manager on for 4 years with that record? No as we have sacked them so I am interested how long do the mangers employers get? 4yrs so far of pretty much garbage with half the OF missing for 2 of them.


Club needs gutted no idea who by or who with that doesnt mean it doesnt need done.

[greenpaper55]

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.

The only kop out was not signing Lee when we had the chance but that was before he went on a fantastic scoring run that earned him his place in the Scotland Squad.

Petrie did appoint Terry and most of us have agreed welcomed this appointment on paper it should work given time and backing.

The reality is if we were playing well and winning no one would be Petrie Bashing and its not Petrie that picks the team or kicks a ball.


Seems to imply in this that he offered Wolves what we paid for Collins,

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/rod-petrie-lifts-lid-on-bid-for-leigh-griffiths-1-3084559

[Nailrod]

Or it could be Option D... appointing someone from outside.

By the "beancounty woman", do you mean Amanda Jones? One of the best-respected employment lawyers around?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TheDirectors/0,,10290,00.htmlYou undersell the good woman, CiG. Don't you know that she's also one of the world's leading authorities on the bactrian camel? Expertise which is worth its weight in gold.

Did it ever occur to you that if Hibs didn't spend all their time and money hiring useless managers and board members and then firing them, and operating as some kind of perpetual motion machine for millions of plodding journeyman footballers, then we might be able to dispense with the services of "one of the best-respected employment lawyers around" and bring in somebody who knows which end of a football to kick?

[jakeshibs]

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.

The only kop out was not signing Lee when we had the chance but that was before he went on a fantastic scoring run that earned him his place in the Scotland Squad.

Petrie did appoint Terry and most of us have agreed welcomed this appointment on paper it should work given time and backing.

The reality is if we were playing well and winning no one would be Petrie Bashing and its not Petrie that picks the team or kicks a ball.

well said and good point! RP does his job and does it well, you only need to look at our foundations, debt management. we are more secure than most have the best facilities outwith the OF,
The manager picks his players, selects his targets to be signed, trains and dictates tactics enough of this RP bashing... Yes it is possible we could be doing better, but then again we all could be doing better, but we could be in a lot worse, be careful what you wish for.

[oregonhibby]

I am not sure where in my post I am suggesting the "managements'" performance shouldn't be looked at?

His hard work has brought benefits, such as a wonderful stadium, superb training facility and solid finances and I would tend to think in the round these facets should be considered and hence my point of some undeserved criticism.

There is no doubt as I have said elsewhere we have performed lamentably on the park and we need to understand why and what is going to be done about it?

I also said where the buck stops.

[CropleyWasGod]

You undersell the good woman, CiG. Don't you know that she's also one of the world's leading authorities on the bactrian camel? Expertise which is worth its weight in gold.

Did it ever occur to you that if Hibs didn't spend all their time and money hiring useless managers and board members and then firing them, and operating as some kind of perpetual motion machine for millions of plodding journeyman footballers, then we might be able to dispense with the services of "one of the best-respected employment lawyers around" and bring in somebody who knows which end of a football to kick?

I was actually trying to establish what you meant by the "beancounty woman". Still don't know.

How much does she cost us? I thought she was a non-executive director.

[jakeshibs]

I posted something similar to this on another thread but as I was writing it I felt it deserved discussion on a thread of it's own.

The cycle starts with the departure of Tony Mowbray. He was the only Manager that does not fit the cycle as he consistently had us playing good football, getting good results with a few bad ones mixed in. Mainly due to the amount Hearts were spending in his second season.

He leaves. Petrie Replaces him with John Collins during the 2006/07 season.

Collins comes in, shows immediate ambition. We win a cup which was amazing. The players then revolted, we all know the the general story here. Players left, Petrie sold them on. Collins had to build a new team. Despite all of this and Collins signed new players and we were top of the league in late October of the following season 07/08. Tommy Craig then said 'we can't keep this up forever.' That was the turning point. We lost confidence ended going from 1st to 9th in the league Collins resigned citing lack of backing and ambition from Petrie which can be a fair point. However the management team failed us that season. Mixu came in, our form improved and we achieved 6th which at the time was a major let down for us.

The next season (2008/09) came and went with Mixu building a team that was average at best. He sacked for his mediocrity and was replaced by good old John 'Yogi' Hughes.

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.

Similar to Collins reign we are on top of the world and then we go into free fall and have to salvage and scramble to finish in a respectable position. Players, good players, including Stokes leave and Hughes replaces them with the likes of Duffy, Trakys and Gow. Next season we struggle bit time. Hughes is sacked half way through the 2010/11 season and replaced by Colin Caldwerwood.

Calderwood didn't do well. He was the Mixu in between but was much worse. He was sacked during the 2011/12 season and does not deserve another sentence.

Petrie acquired Pat Fenlon in November of 2011. We just about survived relegation as a result of working with Calderwood's numpties. We lose a cup final 5-1 with a lot of Fenlon loan players and we start to rebuild again.

Pat rebuilds Hibs. He makes alot of signings. We are top of the league in the 2012/13 season in November after beating Dundee United 2-1 at Easter Road. Griffiths goals are carrying the team but our midfield and defence look solid. Then it all goes wrong again. We lose games for fun. We rely on Griffiths goals as we did with Riordan under Hiughes in his second season. We struggle to finish 7th.

We again lost key players heading into the 2013/14 season. Griffiths, Claros and Doyle are replaced with Vine, Tudur-Jones and Collins. We make a poor start and Fenlon is replaced with Terry Butcher

Butcher comes in and makes a Mixu like start winning and drawing a few games with the odd defeat. He then does a bit of a Calderwood and loses a few. He signals his intention to rebuild the Hibs team again.

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.

Can Terry get us out of it? I hope so... BUT what if he does? Will we then get rid of our top players again, replace them with a poorer standard and we again enter the cycle?

As a club, with the current board, no matter what manager comes in there is always going to be similarities. With Petrie we will always rebuild and if results do improve something will go wrong or we will lack the ambition necessary to succeed.

Change is needed.

we all have our own opinions but I disagree with you on the above.

[oregonhibby]

The accountant is Jamie Marwick and Amanda is a Partner in a law firm who is a well respected employment lawyer. None of the NxDs take any form of pay.

[Captain Trips]

well said and good point! RP does his job and does it well, you only need to look at our foundations, debt management. we are more secure than most have the best facilities outwith the OF,
The manager picks his players, selects his targets to be signed, trains and dictates tactics enough of this RP bashing... Yes it is possible we could be doing better, but then again we all could be doing better, but we could be in a lot worse, be careful what you wish for.

Indded aspects of his job as are hiring mangers being dynamic during their appointments making sure they are the right appointments as a good manager with a successful team brings in money. This is an aspect and a major one he is lacking in and IMO was proved by his lack of forsight with CC when we could have got rid of him with some money to boot, yet he couldnt see what to myself and I think many was a guy not fit for purpose. Some 12 weeks later he is sacked and Hibs are out of pocket.

That was and remains a gross error and tells me all I need to know about him as a person who can deal with "all" aspects of the job.

[stevejordan]

You undersell the good woman, CiG. Don't you know that she's also one of the world's leading authorities on the bactrian camel? Expertise which is worth its weight in gold.

Did it ever occur to you that if Hibs didn't spend all their time and money hiring useless managers and board members and then firing them, and operating as some kind of perpetual motion machine for millions of plodding journeyman footballers, then we might be able to dispense with the services of "one of the best-respected employment lawyers around" and bring in somebody who knows which end of a football to kick?

I Agree with you on this point how is this " Beancounty " woman going to improve our football team on the park ? however i dont think Terry has had enough time to be called a " Useless Manager " as yet time will tell on that point.

Attracting quality players to our club is not easy anymore we are a bottom 6 team in a crappy league so its the Journeyman and loanee market that we work in unless we can bring through some decent Acadamy players but that pipeline has run dry in reent years which we cant blame Petrie for.

[Nailrod]

I was actually trying to establish what you meant by the "beancounty woman".
Now you're scaring me. You mean there's more than one?

How much does she cost us? I thought she was a non-executive director.I've absolutely no idea. But I do know of two very keen lepidopterists and an expert in Japanese Bonsai who would like nothing better than to join the board as unpaid non-execs and share some thoughts with Rod, the beancounty woman, wotsisname and the guy who runs the shop.

[jacomo]

This has been done to death. Where is he paid from?

FoH? :dunno:

:wink:

[Nailrod]

FoH? :dunno:

:wink::top marks:faf:

[silverhibee]

Seems to imply in this that he offered Wolves what we paid for Collins,

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/rod-petrie-lifts-lid-on-bid-for-leigh-griffiths-1-3084559

"there was no sum of money Wolves would except"

But they accepted a bid from the soapdodgers easily enough, imo Griffiths never wanted to come back to Hibs on a permanent deal with us.

[Nailrod]

"there was no sum of money Wolves would except"

But they accepted a bid from the soapdodgers easily enough, imo Griffiths never wanted to come back to Hibs on a permanent deal with us.We didn't need him on a 'permanent deal'. Three years would have been fine. Buy him for half a mill and sell him on for a mill and a half.

[jakeshibs]

Indded aspects of his job as are hiring mangers being dynamic during their appointments making sure they are the right appointments as a good manager with a successful team brings in money. This is an aspect and a major one he is lacking in and IMO was proved by his lack of forsight with CC when we could have got rid of him with some money to boot, yet he couldnt see what to myself and I think many was a guy not fit for purpose. Some 12 weeks later he is sacked and Hibs are out of pocket.

That was and remains a gross error and tells me all I need to know about him as a person who can deal with "all" aspects of the job.

He has put in a great shift and given us great foundations. Yes we can all say in hindsight that CC appointment and indeed not cashing in on his departure was an error, dynamic manger with a successful team you make it sound so easy, I wonder that we have never mastered this since our formation in 1875.

people and managers are all taken at risk no body wanted TM at the time unproven etc, but it worked, with some help from our youth system.

its about Hibs and what's best and he has proven the stability to improve us as an organisation, bills being paid, debt coming down, facilities, he has backed every manager financially and already told TB he has money available this summer.

he does not pick or train the team , but ensured we have the funds available to compete, now with TB I believe we will see the team we all want

[Captain Trips]

We didn't need him on a 'permanent deal'. Three years would have been fine. Buy him for half a mill and sell him on for a mill and a half.

The problem being his form was excellent therefore his wage would going on his form at time meant him and his agent could probably get a weekly wage of high end 4figures maybe touching 10k?

There was no way LG was ever going to sign a deal at that point on what we could offer. LG may have said wanted to stay he knew he had done enough to get a move for a very good weekly wage.

[Captain Trips]

He has put in a great shift and given us great foundations. Yes we can all say in hindsight that CC appointment and indeed not cashing in on his departure was an error, dynamic manger with a successful team you make it sound so easy, I wonder that we have never mastered this since our formation in 1875.

people and managers are all taken at risk no body wanted TM at the time unproven etc, but it worked, with some help from our youth system.

its about Hibs and what's best and he has proven the stability to improve us as an organisation, bills being paid, debt coming down, facilities, he has backed every manager financially and already told TB he has money available this summer.

he does not pick or train the team , but ensured we have the funds available to compete, now with TB I believe we will see the team we all want

You seem to be crediting him with things then the football side its all the managers fault. He has a job that includes what you said and also maintain a successful team and he has not done that. IMO keeping CC was as bad a mistake as was some of the good he did.

[Nailrod]

In case anybody thinks I'm being unduly flippant about this, there is a serious side to the issue. I think we all have a tendency to treat the people around the club as if they were icons. TB for example. What a tough guy! Never room for a moment's self-doubt!

That's obviously rubbish. He's just a human being like the rest of us. He'll have his ups and downs. And right now, he can't be feeling too great about how things have gone over the last couple of months. So who is he going to turn to for support? The guy at the top, obviously. Imagine the conversation:

TB: Not feeling too happy about the way things are going right now boss...

RP: Hmm...

TB: We seemed to have got onto the right track, and then all of a sudden we hit the buffers...

RP: I'm hearing you Terry.

TB: I don't know. I've tried motivation. I've tried threats. But things are slipping. I really thought we were going to be pushing for 5th right now, and instead we're looking over our shoulders...

RP: I hear where you're coming from Terry.

TB: Any thoughts boss? I'm open to any ideas. From any quarter. Even wotsisname. Or the guy who runs the shop. I just want to get things back on track...

RP: Hmm... Perhaps you might have a chat with Amanda. She doesn't know anything about football, but she's one of the best-respected employment lawyers around...

[oregonhibby]

Brilliant

RP: Hmm... Perhaps you might have a chat with Amanda. She doesn't know anything about football, but she's one of the best-respected employment
lawyers around.......................................and you will be needing one soon!

[silverhibee]

We didn't need him on a 'permanent deal'. Three years would have been fine. Buy him for half a mill and sell him on for a mill and a half.

imo he wouldn't have come back to Hibs unless it was a loan deal, there was no chance he was going to sign on a 1,3, or 5 deal with Hibs.

[CropleyWasGod]

Now you're scaring me. You mean there's more than one?
I've absolutely no idea. But I do know of two very keen lepidopterists and an expert in Japanese Bonsai who would like nothing better than to join the board as unpaid non-execs and share some thoughts with Rod, the beancounty woman, wotsisname and the guy who runs the shop.

It was you who called her such. I was trying to establish why. That's all.

A club like us needs employment law advice. We get it for nothing.

[silverhibee]

Who was?

Michael O'Neill.

[rcarter1]

Enjoyed the OP's post. I feel that the big problem is that our managers have all seemingly been hoodwinked into thinking we are good, when we have a good striker banging them in. Ever since we sold the best of Mowbrays/Collins team we have been crap in midfield and have relied on good strikers to keep us from from being kicked solidly out of the top division.

[jacomo]

"there was no sum of money Wolves would except"

But they accepted a bid from the soapdodgers easily enough, imo Griffiths never wanted to come back to Hibs on a permanent deal with us.

There might be a bit of truth in it. Wolves and LG seemed to have a falling out between the summer and winter transfer windows.

Anyhow, wages would always have been the big issue. I don't have any figures, so pure speculation, but if Wolves were paying twice what we could afford and Celtc's offer matched that, we were never in the running. LG might be a Hibby but he's a professional footballer first.

[greenpaper55]

He has put in a great shift and given us great foundations. Yes we can all say in hindsight that CC appointment and indeed not cashing in on his departure was an error, dynamic manger with a successful team you make it sound so easy, I wonder that we have never mastered this since our formation in 1875.

people and managers are all taken at risk no body wanted TM at the time unproven etc, but it worked, with some help from our youth system.

its about Hibs and what's best and he has proven the stability to improve us as an organisation, bills being paid, debt coming down, facilities, he has backed every manager financially and already told TB he has money available this summer.

he does not pick or train the team , but ensured we have the funds available to compete, now with TB I believe we will see the team we all want

Jeezo, if this is the good bit i can hardly wait for the bad !.

[Nailrod]

It was you who called her such. I was trying to establish why. That's all.

A club like us needs employment law advice.I bet all the small provincial clubs currently sitting above us in the league are gnawing off their own bell ends at the thought that we're getting employment law advice for nothing. I bet they're raging. I bet they're constantly trying to poach Amanda off us, to replace their own useless non-execs. Who needs to sit down with the guys who run the club and talk about formations, tactics, opposition strengths and weaknesses, team selection this week, when you could be discussing the intricacies of the latest EU Commission Directive on employment law?
We get it for nothing.Somebody is getting something for nothing... :hmmm:

[CropleyWasGod]

I bet all the small provincial clubs currently sitting above us in the league are gnawing off their own bell ends at the thought that we're getting employment law advice for nothing. I bet they're raging. I bet they're constantly trying to poach Amanda off us, to replace their own useless non-execs. Who needs to sit down with the guys who run the club and talk about formations, tactics, opposition strengths and weaknesses, team selection this week, when you could be discussing the intricacies of the latest EU Commission Directive on employment law?Getting something for nothing... :hmmm:

Is that the point of corporate governance?

[matty_f]

It was you who called her such. I was trying to establish why. That's all.

A club like us needs employment law advice. We get it for nothing.

Better getting someone who knows what end of a football to kick to do it. What's Mickey Weir up to these days?

[Nailrod]

Is that the point of corporate governance?Leave it out CwG. I'm not some bambo reading the tick-tock thread.

We are not a "corporation". We are no more than an SME. And as Amanda could certainly confirm, rated by number of employees and turnover we are not even close to the 'Medium' end of the SME ranking. We are an 'S'. We are quite a small 'S'. We do not need ''corporate governance".

But there are some things that we do need. We are a football club, and for several years we have been in urgent and desperate need of somebody, somewhere, who can provide some useful input as to how you spend a £12 million pound bounty without at the same time turning your team into a 7-year laughing stock on the field. There must be a number of people in the country who could provide some such advice, as there are currently five teams above us in the league table who did not receive a £12 million pound bounty, and who nevertheless have succeeded in not turning their teams into a laughing stock on the field.

But in a sense you are right. I suspect that our glorious leader finds it much easier to relate to things like "corporate governance".

[CropleyWasGod]

Leave it out CwG. I'm not some bambo reading the tick-tock thread.

We are not a "corporation". We are no more than an SME. And as Amanda could certainly confirm, rated by number of employees and turnover we are not even close to the 'Medium' end of the SME ranking. We are an 'S'. We are quite a small 'S'. We do not need ''corporate governance".

But there are some things that we do need. We are a football club, and for several years we have been in urgent and desperate need of somebody, somewhere, who can provide some useful input as to how you spend a £12 million pound bounty without at the same time turning your team into a 7-year laughing stock on the field. There must be a number of people in the country who could provide some such advice, as there are currently five teams above us in the league table who did not receive a £12 million pound bounty, and who nevertheless have succeeded in not turning their teams into a laughing stock on the field.

But in a sense you are right. I suspect that our glorious leader finds it much easier to relate to things like "corporate governance".

There's no need for the abuse. I am genuinely interested in your point of view; as an aside, you still haven't answered my initial question.

As for us not needing corporate governance, I disagree. All businesses, corporate or otherwise, need it at some level. Whether that's through non-execs, through management, or by external advisers, is open to argument.

I definitely don't like the idea of "fitba people" making up the Board, but do accept that a balance is needed.

[Nailrod]

There's no need for the abuse. I am genuinely interested in your point of view; as an aside, you still haven't answered my initial question.

As for us not needing corporate governance, I disagree. All businesses, corporate or otherwise, need it at some level. Whether that's through non-execs, through management, or by external advisers, is open to argument.

I definitely don't like the idea of "fitba people" making up the Board, but do accept that a balance is needed.
Fair enough. It's late where I am, and drink has been taken.

FWIW I don't want 'fitba people' on the Board at ER either. Almost without exception, they're rubbish. They're the sort of people who used to run 'The Rangers'. But I do want a Board - execs and non-execs - made up of educated, intelligent, mature people with some kind of useful background, who know and care about football and who know and care about Hibernian Football club, and who the Manager will respect and see as people who have something worthwhile to contribute when he needs support.

And I could probably reel off a dozen names from this website who fit that profile better than the current incumbents. You for example.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fair enough. It's late where I am, and drink has been taken.

FWIW I don't want 'fitba people' on the Board at ER either. Almost without exception, they're rubbish. They're the sort of people who used to run 'The Rangers'. But I do want a Board - execs and non-execs - made up of educated, intelligent, mature people with some kind of useful background, who know and care about football and who know and care about Hibernian Football club, and who the Manager will respect and see as people who have something worthwhile to contribute when he needs support.

And I could probably reel off a dozen names from this website who fit that profile better than the current incumbents. You for example.

You were doing so well until that last statement :greengrin

Words like "***tty stick" and "bargepoles" spring to mind.......:cb

[Nailrod]

You were doing so well until that last statement :greengrin

Pax :na na:

[stevejordan]

Fair enough. It's late where I am, and drink has been taken.

FWIW I don't want 'fitba people' on the Board at ER either. Almost without exception, they're rubbish. They're the sort of people who used to run 'The Rangers'. But I do want a Board - execs and non-execs - made up of educated, intelligent, mature people with some kind of useful background, who know and care about football and who know and care about Hibernian Football club, and who the Manager will respect and see as people who have something worthwhile to contribute when he needs support.

And I could probably reel off a dozen names from this website who fit that profile better than the current incumbents. You for example.

We can bleat and moan all we like Petrie is going nowhere he is in with the bricks and has full back of Tom Farmer If Terry fails as per the OP The cylce will continue with a new Manager appointed and it will continue till we get a Manager that brings success.

[Saorsa]

I Still dont get this Petrie bashing he took no part in the appointment of Paddy and how was he to know that the guys he delegated to hire a Manager would " screw it up " Petrie backed Paddy with a lot of money.Just because he delegated the job tae Scott Lindsay and High Fiveland, that disnae absolve him of the blame. If he delegated tae the wrong people he is responsible for that and anyway if you (or anybody else) thinks he never had the final say then you're dreaming. He makes the final decision on everything. If it wisnae his appointment how come he was the one strutting around parading him when he signed and no the others?

He was solely responsible for all the failures before that, the Colin Deadwood farce has tae be his crowning glory though. Deadwood, according tae Petrie was a coup when he was signed up. At the end of his 1st season everybody could see he was a bigger dumplin' than Hughes but rather than admit he got it wrong again Petrie came out and nailed his colours tae the mast of that particular sinking ship. Even by the end of the summer when Deadwood was trying tae engineer his ain way out the door Petrie was still insisting he was the man for the job (and Deadwood continued tae squander the entire transfer budget on duds) despite the fact he could have got rid of him for nothing. Instead he sacks him 3 months in tae the season and had tae pay him off. The man is responsible for wasting hundreds of thousand paying off his mistakes.


Petrie is in charge of everything at ER (and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on) yet some folk on here only want tae credit him for the infrastructure and absolve him from any blame of the decline and series of unmitigated disasters that have befallen this club on the football side of things. He might no pick the team on the park but he picked the duds that did.


He is responsible for it ​ and he should have been away efter the Deadwood farce.

[ancient hibee]

Counter argument.

Petrie hires new manager-takes a closer interest in the playing side to help the new man settle in-team does well-Petrie steps back and leaves it all to the football man-team goes down the swanee.
Conclusion-Petrie should do everything-you know it makes sense(or at least as much as some of the guff on here).

[Captain Trips]

Just because he delegated the job tae Scott Lindsay and High Fiveland, that disnae absolve him of the blame. If he delegated tae the wrong people he is responsible for that and anyway if you (or anybody else) thinks he never had the final say then you're dreaming. He makes the final decision on everything. If it wisnae his appointment how come he was the one strutting around parading him when he signed and no the others?

He was solely responsible for all the failures before that, the Colin Deadwood farce has tae be his crowning glory though. Deadwood, according tae Petrie was a coup when he was signed up. At the end of his 1st season everybody could see he was a bigger dumpin' than Hughes but rather than admit he got it wrong again Petrie came out and nailed his colours tae the mast of that particular sinking ship. Even by the end of the summer when Deadwood was trying tae engineer his ain way out the door Petrie was still insisting he was the man for the job (and Deadwood continued tae squander the entire transfer budget on duds) despite the fact he could have got rid of him for nothing. Instead he sacks him 3 months in tae the season and had tae pay him off. The man is responsible for wasting hundreds of thousand paying off his mistakes.


Petrie is in charge of everything at ER (and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on) yet some folk on here only want tae credit him for the infrastructure and absolve him from any blame of the decline and series of unmitigated disasters that have befallen this club on the football side of things.


He is responsible for it ​ and he should have been away efter the Deadwood farce.

Agree with all that DD 100%. The CC farce was indeed a shambles and he should have called it after sacking CC. If RP hadn't nailed his colours as you say we could have got rid of CC that summer where perhaps other candidates may have been available and the manager will have had that summer even if PF to strengthen.

Yes managers are a gamble on day 1 but CC had shown nothing in the previous months and had a rather strange attitude during that summer yet RP stuck with it when the chance may have been there to get rid, that therefore wasn't a gamble it was gross incompetence costing 1000s. If indeed an offer was put in for CC then Petrie should have looked at what he had done thus far and what he thought was capable of, during that summer he hadnt done much of note until then and during summer didn't appear hungry. RP didnt gamble he thought this guy was ok and tbh Stevie Wonder saw the signs this wasn't going to end well. It was a joke of a decision and smacked me of pride rather than what was best at time.

[greenpaper55]

Just because he delegated the job tae Scott Lindsay and High Fiveland, that disnae absolve him of the blame. If he delegated tae the wrong people he is responsible for that and anyway if you (or anybody else) thinks he never had the final say then you're dreaming. He makes the final decision on everything. If it wisnae his appointment how come he was the one strutting around parading him when he signed and no the others?

He was solely responsible for all the failures before that, the Colin Deadwood farce has tae be his crowning glory though. Deadwood, according tae Petrie was a coup when he was signed up. At the end of his 1st season everybody could see he was a bigger dumplin' than Hughes but rather than admit he got it wrong again Petrie came out and nailed his colours tae the mast of that particular sinking ship. Even by the end of the summer when Deadwood was trying tae engineer his ain way out the door Petrie was still insisting he was the man for the job (and Deadwood continued tae squander the entire transfer budget on duds) despite the fact he could have got rid of him for nothing. Instead he sacks him 3 months in tae the season and had tae pay him off. The man is responsible for wasting hundreds of thousand paying off his mistakes.


Petrie is in charge of everything at ER (and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on) yet some folk on here only want tae credit him for the infrastructure and absolve him from any blame of the decline and series of unmitigated disasters that have befallen this club on the football side of things.


He is responsible for it ​ and he should have been away efter the Deadwood farce.

:top marksHow long will he be at ER, there must come a time to step aside ?.

[jakeshibs]

Jeezo, if this is the good bit i can hardly wait for the bad !.

where did I suggest this is the good bit? only saying

[RIP]

If Amanda,Garry,Brian,Bruce, Colin or Jamie know nothing about football then they are in exactly the same position as the rest of us.

Hibs supporters

[stevejordan]

Just because he delegated the job tae Scott Lindsay and High Fiveland, that disnae absolve him of the blame. If he delegated tae the wrong people he is responsible for that and anyway if you (or anybody else) thinks he never had the final say then you're dreaming. He makes the final decision on everything. If it wisnae his appointment how come he was the one strutting around parading him when he signed and no the others?

He was solely responsible for all the failures before that, the Colin Deadwood farce has tae be his crowning glory though. Deadwood, according tae Petrie was a coup when he was signed up. At the end of his 1st season everybody could see he was a bigger dumplin' than Hughes but rather than admit he got it wrong again Petrie came out and nailed his colours tae the mast of that particular sinking ship. Even by the end of the summer when Deadwood was trying tae engineer his ain way out the door Petrie was still insisting he was the man for the job (and Deadwood continued tae squander the entire transfer budget on duds) despite the fact he could have got rid of him for nothing. Instead he sacks him 3 months in tae the season and had tae pay him off. The man is responsible for wasting hundreds of thousand paying off his mistakes.


Petrie is in charge of everything at ER (and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves on) yet some folk on here only want tae credit him for the infrastructure and absolve him from any blame of the decline and series of unmitigated disasters that have befallen this club on the football side of things. He might no pick the team on the park but he picked the duds that did.


He is responsible for it ​ and he should have been away efter the Deadwood farce.

This Petrie bashing is OTT Some on here make him out to be a dictator AKA Sadam i have met the bloke on several occasions he is a quiet spoken considerate polite man.

In my opinion he held on to Paddy for longer than the rest as Paddy was also a nice man.

Lets be honest if we ran Petrie out of town tomorrow would the result change in our next game ?

[jakeshibs]

This Petrie bashing is OTT Some on here make him out to be a dictator AKA Sadam i have met the bloke on several occasions he is a quiet spoken considerate polite man.

In my opinion he held on to Paddy for longer than the rest as Paddy was also a nice man.

Lets be honest if we ran Petrie out of town tomorrow would the result change in our next game ?

totally agree good post!

[Saorsa]

This Petrie bashing is OTT Some on here make him out to be a dictator AKA Sadam i have met the bloke on several occasions he is a quiet spoken considerate polite man.

In my opinion he held on to Paddy for longer than the rest as Paddy was also a nice man.

Lets be honest if we ran Petrie out of town tomorrow would the result change in our next game ?Good stuff, lets keep people because they are nice, what a plan, never mind if they are making a total **** of it, we're keeping lots of nice people in a job.

Why would it change next game, it's taken him 7 years tae make this ****in' mess, it'll take longer than a week tae clear it up.


p.s. Why did Petrie keep Driftwood as long as he did, when he was total ****in' erse? What's your excuse for him there?

[Kato]

I'm pretty grateful to Petrie for many aspects of his management of the club.

Think it's time for a change though.

[truehibernian]

I'm pretty grateful to Petrie for many aspects of his management of the club.

Think it's time for a change though.

I was a staunch Petrie supporter until around two years ago - my thoughts now are thanks for everything Rod, you've led us through harsh times and made us stronger and stable - but time to pass the baton on to someone with a new vision, energy, and vibrant outlook. Positivity should emanate from top to bottom - I just get that vibe from Rod, and this undoubtedly rubs off on the club.

[Kato]

I was a staunch Petrie supporter until around two years ago - my thoughts now are thanks for everything Rod, you've led us through harsh times and made us stronger and stable - but time to pass the baton on to someone with a new vision, energy, and vibrant outlook. Positivity should emanate from top to bottom - I just get that vibe from Rod, and this undoubtedly rubs off on the club.

Perfectly put.

[stevejordan]

Good stuff, lets keep people because they are nice, what a plan, never mind if they are making a total **** of it, we're keeping lots of nice people in a job.

Why would it change next game, it's taken him 7 years tae make this ****in' mess, it'll take longer than a week tae clear it up.


p.s. Why did Petrie keep Driftwood as long as he did, when he was total ****in' erse? What's your excuse for him there?

No excuse for the mess he made of sacking Colin anyway thats way in the past now if he has made another pigs ear of it with the appointment of Terry and its not looking very good at the moment then i will concede when Terry goes Petrie should go with him enough is enough.

[Captain Trips]

No excuse for the mess he made of sacking Colin anyway thats way in the past now if he has made another pigs ear of it with the appointment of Terry and its not looking very good at the moment then i will concede when Terry goes Petrie should go with him enough is enough.

What is also in past is the great work Petrie did but that is mentioned alot in his favour. As a club we have benefited from the work done by Rod and co to this day so that is relevant however we are IMO still suffering also from the errors he made over last few years especially the mess created with CC. Enough was enough almost 3yrs ago for me.

I do not expect a chairman to be here as long as he has and appoint the managers and not get it wrong but in appointing CC that was a mistake finishing 10th then under him and Fenlon 11th then onto Fenlons first complete full season we manage 7th with no Rangers, that for me is totally unacceptable and is unforgiveable to appoint two managers in succession who managed to give us mediocrity as a high at best is just not on.

[stevejordan]

What is also in past is the great work Petrie did but that is mentioned alot in his favour. As a club we have benefited from the work done by Rod and co to this day so that is relevant however we are IMO still suffering also from the errors he made over last few years especially the mess created with CC. Enough was enough almost 3yrs ago for me.

I do not expect a chairman to be here as long as he has and appoint the managers and not get it wrong but in appointing CC that was a mistake finishing 10th then under him and Fenlon 11th then onto Fenlons first complete full season we manage 7th with no Rangers, that for me is totally unacceptable and is unforgiveable to appoint two managers in succession who managed to give us mediocrity as a high at best is just not on.

Petrie did not appoint Paddy.

[silverhibee]

Petrie did not appoint Paddy.

Oh yes he did.

[Saorsa]

Petrie did not appoint Paddy.If you think Petrie never had any say and indeed the final say on who got the managers job at ER you're dreamin'.



Oh yes he did.:agree:

[Captain Trips]

Petrie did not appoint Paddy.

I do not care if it was his idea or somebody else he will have agreed to it, do you honestly believe he went from hiring managers to just simply not being involved at any level on a major decision for the club? I happen to think he was heavily involved.

Maybe Rod didnt select him maybe Rod didnt interview him but I think Rod at some point will have had a say and that makes him culpable. His problem was not in the appointing of CC it was in his failure to see the mistake as it unfolded, then be offered a get out of jail card and still go with it.

[greenpaper55]

The office cat never gets to fart without his say so !, the thing is how does sir Tom not see that we are under achieving ?. The only thing you can deduce from that is that TF has no interest in Hibs whatsoever and he leaves Rod to run the thing as he sees fit, where we go from here is anybodies guess and this situation could run and run for the foreseeable unless things get even worse on the park.

[The Falcon]

Or it could be Option D... appointing someone from outside.

By the "beancounty woman", do you mean Amanda Jones? One of the best-respected employment lawyers around?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TheDirectors/0,,10290,00.html


Aye, But wit diz she ken aboot fitba?? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye, But wit diz she ken aboot fitba?? :wink:

She kens which gadgies have goat the best erses. :cb

[The Falcon]

The office cat never gets to fart without his say so !, the thing is how does sir Tom not see that we are under achieving ?. The only thing you can deduce from that is that TF has no interest in Hibs whatsoever and he leaves Rod to run the thing as he sees fit, where we go from here is anybodies guess and this situation could run and run for the foreseeable unless things get even worse on the park.


How about we give TB the time to put it right?

[Kaiser1962]

Or it could be Option D... appointing someone from outside.

By the "beancounty woman", do you mean Amanda Jones? One of the best-respected employment lawyers around?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TheDirectors/0,,10290,00.html


That will be same Amanda Jones who wiped the floor with Willie McKay and called the shots during the players revolt. Allegedly.

[CropleyWasGod]

That will be same Amanda Jones who wiped the floor with Willie McKay and called the shots during the players revolt. Allegedly.

Wow. Didn't know that.

I'm not too surprised, though. I've had some dealings with her myself, and she knows her stuff. I wouldn't fancy being on the other side of the table from her.

[greenpaper55]

That will be same Amanda Jones who wiped the floor with Willie McKay and called the shots during the players revolt. Allegedly.

Anyone care to enlighten us a bit more?.

[oregonhibby]

Amanda is an outstanding employment lawyer. No doubting her skills and effectiveness in a crisis. The issue is always about avoiding a crisis and how you got into it in the first place.

[Hibercelona]

The thing that's been consistent throughout this whole time is our inability to mold a team together.

For the last several years, we've always relied on a player or 2 that steps up at just the right moment to keep us away from the relegation zone.

There's no real sense of team spirit or togetherness. The stadium is currently more of a grave yard than the actual grave yard itself.

It's all very soulless and has been for quite some time.

[Nailrod]

p.s. Why did Petrie keep Driftwood as long as he did, when he was total ****in' erse? What's your excuse for him there? I have to say that I like a man who nails his colours firmly to the mast.

You were probably too angry for it to register at the time, but among his many other accomplishments the Calderoosh managed the not inconsiderable feat of gaining 1 point from his 5 post-split matches. Yup, folks, that's one point in the games against the worst five teams in the league (apart from ourselves obviously).

And it was after this that Rod decided the guy was such a prize asset that it was worth turning down a lot of money to keep a hold of him.

Rod - total plum or complete plonker? You decide folks...

[Nailrod]

That will be same Amanda Jones who wiped the floor with Willie McKay and called the shots during the players revolt. Allegedly.I really hate to come across as being all negative all the time, but why would anybody with any sense think that this is a 'good thing'?

I don't want to support a club that needs some stiletto-heeled sharp-tongued Allie McBeal on the Board to hand Willie McKay his erse on a plate when there's a players' revolt.

I'd rather support a club that's not so rotten to the core that there are players revolts in the first place.

It's the same with "Rodders had nothing to do with the Fenlon appointment" argument.

I don't want to support a club where the man in charge makes some grandiloquent condescending gesture about removing himself from the managerial decision-making process in order to appease the angry fans.

I'd rather support a club where the man in charge hasn't mucked up the single most important decision that a football club has to make so many times that he has to remove himself from the process to begin with.

[jacomo]

Amanda is an outstanding employment lawyer. No doubting her skills and effectiveness in a crisis. The issue is always about avoiding a crisis and how you got into it in the first place.

Given the sheer number of personnel we've had to move on over the past six or so years, this is handy. :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

I don't want to support a club that needs some stiletto-heeled sharp-tongued Allie McBeal on the Board to hand Willie McKay his erse on a plate when there's a players' revolt.


We needed to stay the right side of the law and all clubs employ them. Lawyers, like accountants, are a necessary evil. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

We needed to stay the right side of the law and all clubs employ them. Lawyers, like accountants, are all evil. :wink:

Always wanted to say "fixed that for you." :cb

[stevejordan]

I have to say that I like a man who nails his colours firmly to the mast.

You were probably too angry for it to register at the time, but among his many other accomplishments the Calderoosh managed the not inconsiderable feat of gaining 1 point from his 5 post-split matches. Yup, folks, that's one point in the games against the worst five teams in the league (apart from ourselves obviously).

And it was after this that Rod decided the guy was such a prize asset that it was worth turning down a lot of money to keep a hold of him.

Rod - total plum or complete plonker? You decide folks...

Ill bet their are no other Chairmen in the SPL Who work for Free Petrie has worked hard over the years puting all the infrastructure in place and its not his fault the Acadamy is not producing.

CC And Paddy are now gone we now have an experienced Management team put in place by Petrie to turn our on field problems round if Petrie is prepared to back them with cash then fair enough.

If he thinks Terry can work miracles with the dross left from the Paddy carnage then he will lose the backing of the fans and will have to go in the meantime lets all pull together as the Petrie bashing is getting us know where.

[ancient hibee]

I really hate to come across as being all negative all the time, but why would anybody with any sense think that this is a 'good thing'?

I don't want to support a club that needs some stiletto-heeled sharp-tongued Allie McBeal on the Board to hand Willie McKay his erse on a plate when there's a players' revolt.

I'd rather support a club that's not so rotten to the core that there are players revolts in the first place.

It's the same with "Rodders had nothing to do with the Fenlon appointment" argument.

I don't want to support a club where the man in charge makes some grandiloquent condescending gesture about removing himself from the managerial decision-making process in order to appease the angry fans.

I'd rather support a club where the man in charge hasn't mucked up the single most important decision that a football club has to make so many times that he has to remove himself from the process to begin with.

Aren't you missing the point-it was the players who were rotten to the core not the club.

Is it true that the players prefer playing away from ER?

[blackpoolhibs]

This Petrie bashing is OTT Some on here make him out to be a dictator AKA Sadam i have met the bloke on several occasions he is a quiet spoken considerate polite man.

In my opinion he held on to Paddy for longer than the rest as Paddy was also a nice man.

Lets be honest if we ran Petrie out of town tomorrow would the result change in our next game ?

How much money has our club wasted on paying off manager after manager? How much money has our club wasted on paying of player after player, paying out the remainder of their contracts because they have been a waste of space on the park?


Who appointed the men who brought them players to the club? Just how much would you guess this amounts to Steve, give me a ball park figure?

Perhaps Petrie is a nice man too? :rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

Ill bet their are no other Chairmen in the SPL Who work for Free Petrie has worked hard over the years puting all the infrastructure in place and its not his fault the Acadamy is not producing.

CC And Paddy are now gone we now have an experienced Management team put in place by Petrie to turn our on field problems round if Petrie is prepared to back them with cash then fair enough.

If he thinks Terry can work miracles with the dross left from the Paddy carnage then he will lose the backing of the fans and will have to go in the meantime lets all pull together as the Petrie bashing is getting us know where.

Yes because we have really been going places under his tenure like the heady heights of 7th or how about 10th. I care not a jot if he works for 300k or free, not good enough at "ALL" aspects of the job.

[Eyrie]

Amanda is an outstanding employment lawyer. No doubting her skills and effectiveness in a crisis. The issue is always about avoiding a crisis and how you got into it in the first place.

I'm sure she can use those same skills effectively to avoid a crisis happening.

[oregonhibby]

Aye

[stevejordan]

How much money has our club wasted on paying off manager after manager? How much money has our club wasted on paying of player after player, paying out the remainder of their contracts because they have been a waste of space on the park?


Who appointed the men who brought them players to the club? Just how much would you guess this amounts to Steve, give me a ball park figure?

Perhaps Petrie is a nice man too? :rolleyes:

Fair point and i am just as frustrated as you however how many of us fans kicked up a storm after each dud appointment ? to a man we all stood by Petrie backing the latest incumbent if its not Terrys Army its Paddys Army and when it all goes breasts heavenhards the shouts for Petries head appear.

I Say it again if we get rid of Petrie it will not improve results on the park which is what we all want the Petrie bashing is now becoming non helpful to our cause winning games

[truehibernian]

Fair point and i am just as frustrated as you however how many of us fans kicked up a storm after each dud appointment ? to a man we all stood by Petrie backing the latest incumbent if its not Terrys Army its Paddys Army and when it all goes breasts heavenhards the shouts for Petries head appear.

I Say it again if we get rid of Petrie it will not improve results on the park which is what we all want the Petrie bashing is now becoming non helpful to our cause winning games

I think it will - the whole personality of the club starts from the top and sweeps down throughout the staff in my opinion. That includes the fans.

If you have a guy (or girl) at the helm, who fans see as energetic, enthusiastic, in tune with the boss (who himself wears his heart on his sleeve), and shares a common vision both internally and in public in the media, I think the fans subconsciously become confident and positive.

Rod at present breeds negativity and a little bit of resentment - that I'm afraid is the truth. And we can't escape the fact that fans are not going to watch Hibs because they feel not only they are not getting value for money on the pitch, but that Rod encapsulates the lack of ambition.

It's the truth I'm afraid - I know a great many Hibs fans, many well off and well educated, who quite simply have stopped going because they now see through Rod's 'strategy'. That being 'stay in the league' rather than 'push for success'. The model at Hibs is centred around safety and mediocrity - no one at Board level is willing to really take a chance. It's very self centred - I noted Gogs say that they are all Hibs fans and they care - don't we all. That does not detract from accountability - crowds are poor, season tickets are down, bottom 6 again beckons, the football standard is awful and those in high positions are not doing their jobs well. Simple as that (as harsh as it sounds).

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Very good post TH.

[Pete]

I think it will - the whole personality of the club starts from the top and sweeps down throughout the staff in my opinion. That includes the fans.

If you have a guy (or girl) at the helm, who fans see as energetic, enthusiastic, in tune with the boss (who himself wears his heart on his sleeve), and shares a common vision both internally and in public in the media, I think the fans subconsciously become confident and positive.

Rod at present breeds negativity and a little bit of resentment - that I'm afraid is the truth. And we can't escape the fact that fans are not going to watch Hibs because they feel not only they are not getting value for money on the pitch, but that Rod encapsulates the lack of ambition.


It's the truth I'm afraid - I know a great many Hibs fans, many well off and well educated, who quite simply have stopped going because they now see through Rod's 'strategy'. That being 'stay in the league' rather than 'push for success'. The model at Hibs is centred around safety and mediocrity - no one at Board level is willing to really take a chance. It's very self centred - I noted Gogs say that they are all Hibs fans and they care - don't we all. That does not detract from accountability - crowds are poor, season tickets are down, bottom 6 again beckons, the football standard is awful and those in high positions are not doing their jobs well. Simple as that (as harsh as it sounds).

Agree with some of what you say but also disagree as I believe the current situation can work.

People talk about this "top down" theory but I think the personality of a clubs starts at a chosen figurehead. I honestly think our board have been seeking someone like Butcher to come in, be the face and driving force behind the club and dictate our football path.

Terry has a philosophy, a way of doing things and wants control over very aspect when it comes to football. He is in charge and supplies the energy. If this doesn't work then serious questions need to be asked of the board in a few years as there are now no excuses but this looks like the perfect combination to me.

Corporate structures are often referred to but this isn't a call centre. This is a football team and if the right manager is given time, the right facilities and a decent budget then he can't fail.

[stevejordan]

I posted something similar to this on another thread but as I was writing it I felt it deserved discussion on a thread of it's own.

The cycle starts with the departure of Tony Mowbray. He was the only Manager that does not fit the cycle as he consistently had us playing good football, getting good results with a few bad ones mixed in. Mainly due to the amount Hearts were spending in his second season.

He leaves. Petrie Replaces him with John Collins during the 2006/07 season.

Collins comes in, shows immediate ambition. We win a cup which was amazing. The players then revolted, we all know the the general story here. Players left, Petrie sold them on. Collins had to build a new team. Despite all of this and Collins signed new players and we were top of the league in late October of the following season 07/08. Tommy Craig then said 'we can't keep this up forever.' That was the turning point. We lost confidence ended going from 1st to 9th in the league Collins resigned citing lack of backing and ambition from Petrie which can be a fair point. However the management team failed us that season. Mixu came in, our form improved and we achieved 6th which at the time was a major let down for us.

The next season (2008/09) came and went with Mixu building a team that was average at best. He sacked for his mediocrity and was replaced by good old John 'Yogi' Hughes.

We are now into 2009/10. Hughes has us flying, challenging the old firm. Stokes is a revelation, Riordan is at his best again, Zemmama is creating chance after chance and Colin Nish is scoring the odd goal too. Most Hibs fans would agree that despite this we were not the finished article. We generally out scored the opposition but out whole team performance was lacking. Our defence and goalkeeper were making constant mistakes and our midfield was overrun. We just happened to have one of the best attacking combinations in the league. Then there's the turning point. We lost 1-4 at home to Rangers and miss a chance to go top in December. Our confidence goes. We don't win in our next 9 games and we are mid-table. Colin Nish goes on a scoring run at the end of the season and we finish 4th and qualify for Europe. Are we challenging the top teams again? No.

Similar to Collins reign we are on top of the world and then we go into free fall and have to salvage and scramble to finish in a respectable position. Players, good players, including Stokes leave and Hughes replaces them with the likes of Duffy, Trakys and Gow. Next season we struggle bit time. Hughes is sacked half way through the 2010/11 season and replaced by Colin Caldwerwood.

Calderwood didn't do well. He was the Mixu in between but was much worse. He was sacked during the 2011/12 season and does not deserve another sentence.

Petrie acquired Pat Fenlon in November of 2011. We just about survived relegation as a result of working with Calderwood's numpties. We lose a cup final 5-1 with a lot of Fenlon loan players and we start to rebuild again.

Pat rebuilds Hibs. He makes alot of signings. We are top of the league in the 2012/13 season in November after beating Dundee United 2-1 at Easter Road. Griffiths goals are carrying the team but our midfield and defence look solid. Then it all goes wrong again. We lose games for fun. We rely on Griffiths goals as we did with Riordan under Hiughes in his second season. We struggle to finish 7th.

We again lost key players heading into the 2013/14 season. Griffiths, Claros and Doyle are replaced with Vine, Tudur-Jones and Collins. We make a poor start and Fenlon is replaced with Terry Butcher

Butcher comes in and makes a Mixu like start winning and drawing a few games with the odd defeat. He then does a bit of a Calderwood and loses a few. He signals his intention to rebuild the Hibs team again.

The cycle continues. The common denominator? Rod Petrie and the Hibs board he is responsible for.

Can Terry get us out of it? I hope so... BUT what if he does? Will we then get rid of our top players again, replace them with a poorer standard and we again enter the cycle?

As a club, with the current board, no matter what manager comes in there is always going to be similarities. With Petrie we will always rebuild and if results do improve something will go wrong or we will lack the ambition necessary to succeed.

Change is needed.


Your cycle seems to be continuing can you do predictions as well as History lessons ?

[blackpoolhibs]

Fair point and i am just as frustrated as you however how many of us fans kicked up a storm after each dud appointment ? to a man we all stood by Petrie backing the latest incumbent if its not Terrys Army its Paddys Army and when it all goes breasts heavenhards the shouts for Petries head appear.

I Say it again if we get rid of Petrie it will not improve results on the park which is what we all want the Petrie bashing is now becoming non helpful to our cause winning games

Thats nonsence and you know it, plus what would you expect the support to do, lambast the new man? Only one person appoints the manager, and more often than not he gets it wrong.

Petrie can't appoint a decent manager, thats been proven time after time.

[Captain Trips]

Thats nonsence and you know it, plus what would you expect the support to do, lambast the new man? Only one person appoints the manager, and more often than not he gets it wrong.

Petrie can't appoint a decent manager, thats been proven time after time.

Indeed. We should not be in a position today of hoping TB can turn it. Clearing up the mess PF left because he couldnt clear up the mess CC left and made a mess himself is down to RP. Everything is in place for Hibs to be successful all the good stuff Petrie did slowly getting wasted. Pure and simple the man failed to do a key part of his job costing us 1000s, from gate money,prize money and pay offs.

[Scouse Hibee]

I work in a business that has invested heavily in infrastructure, property refurbishment and modernisation. Along the way expenses have been controlled by reducing staff levels to a sometimes ridiculous low yet the levels of service which are the driver for the business to be a success are expected to be maintained at all times. The success of the business now depends on driving people through the doors and securing new business and clients, the effort that goes into this is considerable.Every passing week levels are monitored and questions asked if we don't reach targets for new business on the books and people through the door. Feedback on quality of service and product is reviewed across various mediums, social media sites, forums and review sites are constantly monitored, the feedback from them is treated seriously and erses kicked because of them. This happens on a daily/weekly basis, clearly Hibs do not show the same level of commitment to their customers as we do.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Petrie must go! Need new idea's at the club. Our business model is terrible for putting a decent team together. Last 18 months us Hibs fans have got through by laughing at Hearts, we have not moved on in years, we have gone backwards in a league with no Rangers and a poor Hearts.
Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon that's three poor squads in a row. Now we have zero star players(maybe Stanton but to early to tell needs more games).
Petrie time to move on and give someone else a try

[147lothian]

Petrie must go! Need new idea's at the club. Our business model is terrible for putting a decent team together. Last 18 months us Hibs fans have got through by laughing at Hearts, we have not moved on in years, we have gone backwards in a league with no Rangers and a poor Hearts.
Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon that's three poor squads in a row. Now we have zero star players(maybe Stanton but to early to tell needs more games).
Petrie time to move on and give someone else a try

Im still going to get my new season ticket but with a very heavy heart while Petrie is there! I don't believe anything at ER happens without the nod from Petrie, he could have got rid of Calderwood for nothing but sacks him with three months left of the season to take the heat off himself. I just don't believe Petrie has now got no say in the managers appointed, nothing happens without his approval, I can't see Hibs going anywhere when they are being run by an aloof board that are far removed from ordinary fans

[Itsnoteasy]

What age was Rod when he took over at ER?

12214

That is Gray the guy that bought nightclubs wi hibs cash

[Peevemor]

That is Gray the guy that bought nightclubs wi hibs cash

It was "Avon Inns" and it wasn't his decision.