Some of the players have chucked it/Chance for U20's (Merged)

[Cameron1875]

Hate to think this about the team but there were a few boys yesterday that I just refuse to accept that they gave everything they've got.
Guys like Nelson, Cairney (previously a big fan), Mcgivern, Collins were absolutely abysmal yesterday and have been for weeks!

It really does look like Butcher has told or suggested to a few of them that they won't be at Hibs beyond the summer so some have just downed tools.

The difference in attitude between players like Stanton and Taiwo to Nelson and Mcgivern appears to be night an day. If Nelson plays another aimless long ball when we have 3 men in open space next week then I think i'll scream :boo hoo::bitchy:.

Butchers quote "It will be an interesting team selection next week. I'd rather go with kids and lose if we're going to lose, but let's go with kids, at least they're honest" does seem to suggest that he has similar doubts to me about a few of the more 'experienced' players.
Horrific performance yesterday and probably as bad as Dun Utd game at home.

Tough being a hibee at the moment.

[SMAXXA]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.

[Glory Lurker]

I don't know about having chucked it, but does anyone know what team spirit is like at the moment? That didn't look like a group of guys pulling together. I didn't see players encouraging each other. Partick's second in part stemmed from our front-ish guys moaning about an attack breaking down rather than trying to chase Partick down. No fun to watch at all.

[J-C]

I think TB mentioned a few weeks ago that players were playing for their futures, it looks very much like he's highlighted the more experienced players haven't done enough so maybe time the kids come in and show what the futures can hold.

For too long now Hibs have been a haven for lazy good for nothing wage thieves, happy to pick up a wage and not give a frig, hopefully TB will change this attitude and a summer clear out is required.

If Marsella can wave his magic wand and get a load of players like he did at ICT, then it won't cost a lot, just a case of freeing up the wages from the non performers.

Players to be gone will be (hopefully) Nelson/McGivern/McPake/Heffernan/Collins/Cairney/Taiwo/Hanlon/Williams/OTJ/ That should free up at least £20-24K a week in wages, plus we'll get some money back from a couple of them.

[ian cruise]

I would have hoped that when TB laid down the challenge and said players were playing for their futures that some rose to the challenge instead of downing tools and/or throwing toys out of the pram. TB has made mistakes since arriving, I bet he'd be the first to admit it, but I feel the players are letting him, and us down.

[basehibby]

I don't know about having chucked it, but does anyone know what team spirit is like at the moment? That didn't look like a group of guys pulling together. I didn't see players encouraging each other. Partick's second in part stemmed from our front-ish guys moaning about an attack breaking down rather than trying to chase Partick down. No fun to watch at all.

:agree: I don't know so much about downing tools but morale seems to be rock bottom amongst the players. Many of them , they make a mistake and the heads seem to go down and that seems to bring out the worst in some - ie, forlorn aimless "passes" rather than playing with an urgency and determination to keep posession and build on it.
I think there was genuine effort to get back into the game yesterday, and with a bit of luck we could have got a point, but we lacked quality and at times that sense of being "up for it" which you need to give you an edge so nothing came of it.

[Jim44]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.

This is undoubtedly a very likely reason for our present position. I've said elsewhere that any recent media coverage on Butcher has been all about his raving on about the quality of the opposition, his dilemna of divided loyalty to ICT and what he's left up there and his looking forward to the cup final. Yes, some our players may have said, stuff you Butcher, but I don't think his attitude has helped matters.

[Waxy]

Your right. Terrence B must doing his nut having to wait till summer to get proper pros in.

[coldingham hibs]

For me the January transfer window was a disaster, we desperately required players in a number of positions and failed to sign them, even short term loans.

The 3 we signed have failed to improve the squad, none of them are even fist names on the teamsheet.

If we finish in the play off spot then whoever made the decision not to bring in any quality needs to explain why.

[Eyrie]

I think TB mentioned a few weeks ago that players were playing for their futures, it looks very much like he's highlighted the more experienced players haven't done enough so maybe time the kids come in and show what the futures can hold.

For too long now Hibs have been a haven for lazy good for nothing wage thieves, happy to pick up a wage and not give a frig, hopefully TB will change this attitude and a summer clear out is required.

If Marsella can wave his magic wand and get a load of players like he did at ICT, then it won't cost a lot, just a case of freeing up the wages from the non performers.

Players to be gone will be (hopefully) Nelson/McGivern/McPake/Heffernan/Collins/Cairney/Taiwo/Hanlon/Williams/OTJ/ That should free up at least £20-24K a week in wages, plus we'll get some money back from a couple of them.

That only works if the unwanted players are out of contract at the end of this season. If not, either we have to agree an early termination payment with them to settle the balance of their contract, or else hope that they find another club and we only need to pay them the difference in wages.

[Iceman1875]

Why the ****** is Kevin Thomson not involved in the match day squad? We are a laughing stock.


Sky sports understands that Hearts are going down.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why the ****** is Kevin Thomson not involved in the match day squad? We are a laughing stock.


Sky sports understands that Hearts are going down.

I thought he picked up an injury midweek?

[Pretty Boy]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

[Northernhibee]

Why the ****** is Kevin Thomson not involved in the match day squad? We are a laughing stock.


Sky sports understands that Hearts are going down.

Because he's been injured and isn't match fit.

[Iceman1875]

I thought he picked up an injury midweek?

Maybe he did Blackpool but within the last few weeks there has been opportunity to have him at least on the bench.


Sky sports understands that Hearts are going down.

[blackpoolhibs]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

:agree: We just have a poor bunch of players, we have a bottom 6 team and have become a bottom 6 club.

[kaimendhibs]

I was sat in the front row yesterday and there wa virtually no communication between the players. No encouragement or cajoling each other. The only shouts were from malpas, for the most part tb sat in the dugout. In my opinion morale and spirit at rock bottom


Sent from my iphone

[GreenArmyyy!]

For me the January transfer window was a disaster, we desperately required players in a number of positions and failed to sign them, even short term loans.

The 3 we signed have failed to improve the squad, none of them are even fist names on the teamsheet.

If we finish in the play off spot then whoever made the decision not to bring in any quality needs to explain why.

I would say from what I have seen of Watmore he is definitely one of the first names on the team sheet.

[TornadoHibby]

I thought he picked up an injury midweek?

Bad man! :greengrin

I think he seems to do that every week these days and since the last time he started a match by all accounts on here at least! :wink: :agree:

If fit, Thomson should play every week as he is one player currently at ER who actually can offer composure on the ball as well as off it, creativity, genuine football ability of quality and experience of playing the game at much higher levels than Hibs currently play at IMO! :agree: :confused:

Something not right reading between the lines of the conflicting accounts as to why he isn't even featuring in the first team squad yet plays for the U20's and the EOS teams regularly, mainly starting matches! :agree:

If he is intent on clearing out all of the existing squad as he repeatedly alludes to in his post match speeches advising the fans as to why we have haplessly lost yet another match that we should be winning, TB should be concentrating on playing teams that will have the best chance of winning these games that we have been embarrassed in! That might have had us in the Top 6 and given the fans some enjoyment for the current season's ST and PATG cash at a time when we are being asked to commit (yet again) to next seasons ST with something like 10 games of the current campaign yet to play, again IMO! :confused:

[Elephant Stone]

I was sat in the front row yesterday and there wa virtually no communication between the players. No encouragement or cajoling each other. The only shouts were from malpas, for the most part tb sat in the dugout. In my opinion morale and spirit at rock bottom


Sent from my iphone

That's the only worry I've got about the play-off place, we shouldn't get over-taken by 4 teams with the gap we've got between us but the teams below us will pull together for a scrap, if we can't sort our mentality out then we could be in a spot of bother.

[Hiber-nation]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

I tend to agree but with McGivern and Craig in particular, they take the easy way out so many times by hoofing it up the park when they have the ability to take a touch and play it on the deck to a team-mate. It's laziness.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

Nailed it.

[Hibercelona]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.

This is what infuriates me. A manager should never write a season off, regardless of circumstances. You fight till the very end.

We could have still been pushing for the top 6, if Butcher had applied himself better. But that's just my opinion.

[Hibercelona]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

I've seen the team play better than this. Not a lot better, but still better non the less.

Their heart just doesn't seem to be in it at all now.

[Kato]

This is what infuriates me. A manager should never write a season off, regardless of circumstances. You fight till the very end.

We could have still been pushing for the top 6, if Butcher had applied himself better. But that's just my opinion.

In what areas and how could he have applied himself better?

[Onceinawhile]

Cairney chucked it a few weeks ago? He hasn't been getting a game, then comes in and makes three assists ffs.

[Ronniekirk]

That only works if the unwanted players are out of contract at the end of this season. If not, either we have to agree an early termination payment with them to settle the balance of their contract, or else hope that they find another club and we only need to pay them the difference in wages.

Yep and when we have to pay them off less money in our transfer budget and we have been doing this now every a Transfer window for years confirming the players were never good enough in the first place

[HoboHarry]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.
Complete nonsense of a statement but then there is a lot of that on this forum. Neither Butcher or Malpas have ever been quitters - quite the reverse - but don't let that stop you from making stuff up.

[Hibercelona]

In what areas and how could he have applied himself better?

I think he could have handled his feelings towards the players better. Telling some of them that they're getting the boot but choosing to play them anyway is a bit puzzling.

[HoboHarry]

I think he could have handled his feelings towards the players better. Telling some of them that they're getting the boot but choosing to play them anyway is a bit puzzling.
Who specifically has been told they are getting the boot and when were they told?

[SMAXXA]

Complete nonsense of a statement but then there is a lot of that on this forum. Neither Butcher or Malpas have ever been quitters - quite the reverse - but don't let that stop you from making stuff up.

Aye ok then, jog on.

[HoboHarry]

Aye ok then, jog on.
That's your best reply? Seriously?

[Hibercelona]

Who specifically has been told they are getting the boot and when were they told?

I think he's been quite public about the plan of offloading players who's contracts are coming to an end. So those players are going to know who they are, which is why I don't see the point in him playing them.

[18/03/07]

Thomson was fit to play at the weekend from what i hear, but for the player not to be considered for the EOS game, thats just not real, don't know if the incident with MM is true but if he can't get a game in that team his tea must be oot

[Eyrie]

Yep and when we have to pay them off less money in our transfer budget and we have been doing this now every a Transfer window for years confirming the players were never good enough in the first place

Which comes down to the then manager being a poor judge of a player's ability and fit for the squad.

I'm just hoping that Butcher and Marsella can continue their good record of identifying the right players or we'll be having the same discussion next year about Jimmy Calderwood rebuilding the team (which doesn't bear thinking about).

[HoboHarry]

I think he's been quite public about the plan of offloading players who's contracts are coming to an end. So those players are going to know who they are, which is why I don't see the point in him playing them.
I haven't read that anywhere. I have read that there was going to be a general overhaul of the squad but he also went out of his way to say that it was up to the players to make him change his mind about them, an example being Tom Taiwo who played his way back into his plans

[leggeto]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.

this season was a write off long ago

[oldbutdim]

Young Kevin always seems fit enough when he turns up for his regular game of 5's.

[J-C]

this season was a write off long ago#

It was a write off after that humiliation in Europe, TB should've been in after that.

[leggeto]

I think TB mentioned a few weeks ago that players were playing for their futures, it looks very much like he's highlighted the more experienced players haven't done enough so maybe time the kids come in and show what the futures can hold.

For too long now Hibs have been a haven for lazy good for nothing wage thieves, happy to pick up a wage and not give a frig, hopefully TB will change this attitude and a summer clear out is required.

If Marsella can wave his magic wand and get a load of players like he did at ICT, then it won't cost a lot, just a case of freeing up the wages from the non performers.

Players to be gone will be (hopefully) Nelson/McGivern/McPake/Heffernan/Collins/Cairney/Taiwo/Hanlon/Williams/OTJ/ That should free up at least £20-24K a week in wages, plus we'll get some money back from a couple of them.

kids are no good in a playoff dogfight,they will have to get out of it themselves to prove they deserve another season

[Hibercelona]

this season was a write off long ago

Our seasons seem to be a write off after the first game these days.

As long as it's mathematically possible for us to get into the top half, we shouldn't be writing anything off. Its such a loser thing to do.

I just feel sorry for season ticket holders who have forked over cash to see 38 games this season, only for it to be over when theres still 8 games left to make the difference.

[leggeto]

#

It was a write off after that humiliation in Europe, TB should've been in after that.

im sure pat handed in his resignation to rod that night and was told to go and calm down I'll see you in the morning

[inglisavhibs]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.
Agree' just watched the game on Alba. Lack of ability but no lack of effort from anybody.

[J-C]

im sure pat handed in his resignation to rod that night and was told to go and calm down I'll see you in the morning

So I heard, aye Rod the all Wise :rolleyes::confused:

[leggeto]

Its always going to be hard for butcher to have another mans players play his style of football,Pat had the passing slow build up where Terry likes them to bomb up the wings,it looks like they just can't play his way so a lot of them will be moving on

[Reaper]

Its always going to be hard for butcher to have another mans players play his style of football,Pat had the passing slow build up where Terry likes them to bomb up the wings,it looks like they just can't play his way so a lot of them will be moving on

Spot on IMO. Dissappointing that TB is gettin a hard time from some. He needs time, he'll get it. He didnt have time to properly identify players in Jan so didnt make rash signings. No issues with that. We just need to remember Kujabi, Pallson et al to remind us when that happened. Im happy.to.give him the summer n next Jan then judge him.

[jeffers]

Spot on IMO. Dissappointing that TB is gettin a hard time from some. He needs time, he'll get it. He didnt have time to properly identify players in Jan so didnt make rash signings. No issues with that. We just need to remember Kujabi, Pallson et al to remind us when that happened. Im happy.to.give him the summer n next Jan then judge him.
He's getting a hard time from some because under him we are no better than we are under PF, but of course it's not his fault they are not his players. And we are just supposed to accept that the experienced manager he is cannot make any improvements until he makes major changes to the playing squad.

As for the January transfer window he's signed one player who looks decent, one who he already appears to have decided isn't good enough and another who he doesn't appear to think is any good at all. How he didn't have time to identify players is beyond me....

[OsloHibs]

This is what infuriates me. A manager should never write a season off, regardless of circumstances. You fight till the very end.

We could have still been pushing for the top 6, if Butcher had applied himself better. But that's just my opinion.

My opinion too. Well said.

[Kato]

I think he could have handled his feelings towards the players better. Telling some of them that they're getting the boot but choosing to play them anyway is a bit puzzling.

Because of what you think happened?

You have no clue as to how those conversations panned out. I'm sure they were nothing but honest and professional on the player and managers part. He got a bit of response from Taiwo and publicly admitted that he had played his way into his plans.

If there is subtle nuances in there which would have made all the players actually apply themselves and show some grit then I'm missing it. The players performances are down to themselves and no one else.

[HoboHarry]

Because of what you think happened?

You have no clue as to how those conversations panned out. I'm sure they were nothing but honest and professional on the player and managers part. He got a bit of response from Taiwo and publicly admitted that he had played his way into his plans.

If there is subtle nuances in there which would have made all the players actually apply themselves and show some grit then I'm missing it. The players performances are down to themselves and no one else.
Kato - you need to get with the program. It's ok for some posters to put whatever twist they choose to on any piece of information and then present it as the truth. It then gets repeated often enough for it to become a "fact" and the assertion that it came from someone "in the know" will also follow. :rolleyes:

[weonlywon6-2]

:agree: We just have a poor bunch of players, we have a bottom 6 team and have become a bottom 6 club.

this is it exactly.we simply dont have good enough players.
at no point have we actually been on a decent run over the last few years.

we will be poor until nex season i feel.
Terry aint gonna get much out of this lot,shame as i thought we would have picked up a bit

[gringojoe]

Players will still be trying for the win bonus, just that we don't have that many decent players. Anybody got an idea what the win bonus is worth these days?

[SMAXXA]

Thomson was fit to play at the weekend from what i hear, but for the player not to be considered for the EOS game, thats just not real, don't know if the incident with MM is true but if he can't get a game in that team his tea must be oot


Hes been fit for a couple of weeks now. Probably down to butcher making him do running on his own rather than training with the rest of the guys.

[J-C]

Hes been fit for a couple of weeks now. Probably down to butcher making him do running on his own rather than training with the rest of the guys.


Yep, also been training with the kids, a disgraceful decision by TB and MM, no matter what happened between them, the fact that we're toiling right now and need a player of his quality is very poor on their behalf.

[edwards]

This is not about players chucking it, It's about inconsistancy and we have players of this calibre by the barrowload.

Collins
Cairney
Taiwo
Nelson
Forster
Craig
Harris
Heffernan

All who have underachieved this season

[jacomo]

Kato - you need to get with the program. It's ok for some posters to put whatever twist they choose to on any piece of information and then present it as the truth. It then gets repeated often enough for it to become a "fact" and the assertion that it came from someone "in the know" will also follow. :rolleyes:

So much bitterness in this post.

It's a Fact that some posters are In The Know - about some things. No one has a complete picture and everyone has an opinion. We'll never agree on everything. It's ok.

Don't worry, I'm never in the know about anything!

[easty]

Yep, also been training with the kids, a disgraceful decision by TB and MM, no matter what happened between them, the fact that we're toiling right now and need a player of his quality is very poor on their behalf.

I disagree. I don't know what went on between them but if Thomson was out of order then its his actions that are disgraceful. TB and MM should absolutely stick to their guns. There's got to be discipline at a club, for all the players. Bringing someone back into the team who's been out of line, simply because they are good, doesn't send out a strong message about discipline.

[HoboHarry]

So much bitterness in this post.

It's a Fact that some posters are In The Know - about some things. No one has a complete picture and everyone has an opinion. We'll never agree on everything. It's ok.

Don't worry, I'm never in the know about anything!
Why would I be bitter? Bored rigid with some of the frankly ridiculous posts that appear here but not bitter in the least. I wasn't rubbishing those who really are in the know - just mocking the stuff that becomes "fact" on this forum.

[shetlandhibee]

Really can't describe how bad we are right now. I say we play the youth team next week, with some older boys. We've got nothing to loose. Right now we are not a team that deserves to be in the top six, I hope I'm wrong. Keep Williams, cairney, thomson and Stanton or something like that, and play the youth players. Theres no pressure on them and I would think they can't be any worse than our team right now.:agree:

[Centre Hawf]

I would keep Hanlon, Taiwo, Stanton, Watmore, Williams, Forster(for centre half), Cairney, and Cummings in the side. The rest can all get dropped.

[Hibercelona]

Stanton and Watmore. Replace the rest of them.

[Billychaotic182]

Stanton and Watmore. Replace the rest of them.

This

[California-Hibs]

I would keep Hanlon, Taiwo, Stanton, Watmore, Williams, Forster(for centre half), Cairney, and Cummings in the side. The rest can all get dropped.

Seriously?! We need to set out standards WAY higher than this. Try someone new from the under 20's.

[basehibby]

Are you guys serious?!? Our under 20s won the double a few years back and how many of them proved good enough to make the step straight up to SPL level?

I'm not knocking them - of course they deserve a chance - but they need some senior players around them to help them adapt to the challenges of SPL football - like having a hundred odd self appointed experts screaming that they're sheight the moment they put a foot wrong :wink:

BTW - can't believe the OP's assertion that we have nothing to lose - haven't you heard that we're about to get sucked into the dog fight to avoid the play offs any moment now :confused:

[macca70]

Are you guys serious?!? Our under 20s won the double a few years back and how many of them proved good enough to make the step straight up to SPL level?

I'm not knocking them - of course they deserve a chance - but they need some senior players around them to help them adapt to the challenges of SPL football - like having a hundred odd self appointed experts screaming that they're sheight the moment they put a foot wrong :wink:

BTW - can't believe the OP's assertion that we have nothing to lose - haven't you heard that we're about to get sucked into the dog fight to avoid the play offs any moment now :confused:

I don't think many from that successful u20 team were even given a decent run at our 1st team, i think 6 got contracts then someone decided they weren't good enough and away they they went. We seem to prefer to buy dross than give the youngsters a decent shot at the 1st team.

[WHUHibs]

Kato - you need to get with the program. It's ok for some posters to put whatever twist they choose to on any piece of information and then present it as the truth. It then gets repeated often enough for it to become a "fact" and the assertion that it came from someone "in the know" will also follow. :rolleyes:

What makes you the gospel adjudicator?

I think it's fair to say people can express opinions and have the right to do so. Quite often I'm sure they can't substantiate something they believe is fact, equally you cannot prove they are wrong.

Forums about opinions and I would express the fact the team are disillusioned as they believe they will be gone in the summer,,quite rightly ,,,I'm glad most will leave as the quality is abysmal but TB should get more out of the team. It started brightly with some nice goals from set plays and a bit more solidity at the back..quite a few games with a decent goal against ratio..now with the same players we are back to power puff and you need to question what has changed! I'm not in the know but simply guessing that players are disenchanted as they are leaving,,,can you perhaps persuade me otherwise with facts?

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I was looking on the bounce and Nikki, who posts on here and there, attends most of the under 20's, and she said that they have been playing a lot of hoofball which is down to TB & MM. When I read that, I was concered. And plus, she's been watching them for a while and as I say, attends most matches so she could well be right. Has anyone else noticed it? :boo hoo:

[Kato]

What makes you the gospel adjudicator?

I think it's fair to say people can express opinions and have the right to do so. Quite often I'm sure they can't substantiate something they believe is fact, equally you cannot prove they are wrong.

Forums about opinions and I would express the fact the team are disillusioned as they believe they will be gone in the summer,,quite rightly ,,,I'm glad most will leave as the quality is abysmal but TB should get more out of the team. It started brightly with some nice goals from set plays and a bit more solidity at the back..quite a few games with a decent goal against ratio..now with the same players we are back to power puff and you need to question what has changed! I'm not in the know but simply guessing that players are disenchanted as they are leaving,,,can you perhaps persuade me otherwise with facts?

Opinion without facts are basically just fairy stories, no?

[GreenOnions]

Are you guys serious?!? Our under 20s won the double a few years back and how many of them proved good enough to make the step straight up to SPL level?

I'm not knocking them - of course they deserve a chance - but they need some senior players around them to help them adapt to the challenges of SPL football - like having a hundred odd self appointed experts screaming that they're sheight the moment they put a foot wrong :wink:

BTW - can't believe the OP's assertion that we have nothing to lose - haven't you heard that we're about to get sucked into the dog fight to avoid the play offs any moment now :confused:

I actually think that our most impressive performers over the last twelve months have been players who've come up through the ranks - Hanlon, Forster (at centre-back), Stanton, Harris and Stevenson.

Robertson and (of course) Griffiths are the only players who've played consistently well for us in the last year who didn't come into this category IMO - although I do think that Liam Craig will come good for us too.

It's the players our last few managers have brought from other clubs who've not done the job.

I'd be very happy to see certainly Hanlon, Forster, Stanton and Harris in particular as key parts of our starting 11 next season and still believe that Lewis is a good player to have in the squad too. That's quite a good success rate in terms of bringing through players from your own youth set up compared to others.

[Hfc_Since1875]

Not often do i have inside info but from a couple of recent players to leave I do, both had interesting comments
1. Everything is in place for the club to be succesful, the facilites are outstanding but something just doesnt feel right at the club was their quote
2. The players havent bought into TB & MM with TB allegedly telling them he's getting rid of players as he can replace them for half the money
3. The players arent happy about the treatment of thomson who is widely held as the best footballer in the team

As i said its not often i have information however due to players moving to a club where i have a mate he passed this on to me!

[Reaper]

He's getting a hard time from some because under him we are no better than we are under PF, but of course it's not his fault they are not his players. And we are just supposed to accept that the experienced manager he is cannot make any improvements until he makes major changes to the playing squad.

As for the January transfer window he's signed one player who looks decent, one who he already appears to have decided isn't good enough and another who he doesn't appear to think is any good at all. How he didn't have time to identify players is beyond me....

He had only been there a short time when the Jan window came round. He'd started at a new club, trying to assess what he needed and then find hidden gems as we had a depleted budget..........Not sure what else he could have done.He did identify Rooney but didnt want to give him a permanent deal and he went elsewhere. Thats going to happen as is TB bringing in players that dont work out....its part and parcel of football. Or do you think we should just get rid as he hasnt improved players who are clearly not good enough?

[bawheid]

I disagree. I don't know what went on between them but if Thomson was out of order then its his actions that are disgraceful. TB and MM should absolutely stick to their guns. There's got to be discipline at a club, for all the players. Bringing someone back into the team who's been out of line, simply because they are good, doesn't send out a strong message about discipline.

Spot on. Hibs have needed a 'boss' for a while. Someone to pick up this failing bunch of saps by the scruff of the neck.

Don't like the way we train, Kevin? Questioning the management's authority in front of the rest of the squad? There's the door, son.

[flash]

What do you expect when the manager is the one who's chucked it and written of this season. He forgets us fans haven't written anything off but he fails to see that.

Think you are confusing chucking it with not giving your mate a game.

Easy done.

[WHUHibs]

Opinion without facts are basically just fairy stories, no?

Yes,,,it is but then again who can say what people are saying as facts are fairy stories,,proven or not proven that the question...sometimes people have snippets share them and they grow legs and become a supposed fact!

I like seeing people's opinions but won't go on the offensive to hound people to prove Them right,,or wrong,,just good to view peoples take on situations.

[mcfly]

Is anyone concerned we could end up in playoff??

I'm worried we get dragged in. 1 win in 10.

What on earth is going on and why do the likes of nelson, McGivern etc still get a game.

No season ticket renewal for me till I know what league we will be in.

[J-C]

I was looking on the bounce and Nikki, who posts on here and there, attends most of the under 20's, and she said that they have been playing a lot of hoofball which is down to TB & MM. When I read that, I was concered. And plus, she's been watching them for a while and as I say, attends most matches so she could well be right. Has anyone else noticed it? :boo hoo:

Wasn't that long ago someone posted here just how good the U20's were playing and the fact they were playing the ball on the deck also, praise was also being given to McDonagh who runs them and the fact he was getting them playing it the right way. If as you say they're starting to play hoofball, the future of our youngsters will be under threat as who would want to join ER if we're known as a hoofball team. :confused:

[jeffers]

He had only been there a short time when the Jan window came round. He'd started at a new club, trying to assess what he needed and then find hidden gems as we had a depleted budget..........Not sure what else he could have done.He did identify Rooney but didnt want to give him a permanent deal and he went elsewhere. Thats going to happen as is TB bringing in players that dont work out....its part and parcel of football. Or do you think we should just get rid as he hasnt improved players who are clearly not good enough?

He could have worked out after his first training session that we don't have one decent full back in the squad. We keep reading about all the players Marsella is aware of, but all we can bring in during the transfer window is ONE player who is any better than what we already had. And the decision not to offer Rooney a peremanent deal is looking like a great decision right enough.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting for a minute getting rid of TB, but yet again we have brought in a manager who is unable to make any improvements 'til he brings in his own players. Yet TB is the experienced Premiership manager we have supposedly been needing. I will give him the same time I gave PF, but I can only imagine anyone who claims he will get it right is basing that on what he achieved at ICT, because so far I have seen nothing in his time with us to suggest he will.

[Kato]

Yes,,,it is but then again who can say what people are saying as facts are fairy stories,,proven or not proven that the question...sometimes people have snippets share them and they grow legs and become a supposed fact!

I like seeing people's opinions but won't go on the offensive to hound people to prove Them right,,or wrong,,just good to view peoples take on situations.

Sorry I disagree. Uninformed opinion is worthless. What happens when people they must give an opinion is that egos and personal agendas kick-in.

Far too much credence given to shallow flights of fancy.

These boards used to about discussion and opinion was secondary.

[Ronniekirk]

Wasn't that long ago someone posted here just how good the U20's were playing and the fact they were playing the ball on the deck also, praise was also being given to McDonagh who runs them and the fact he was getting them playing it the right way. If as you say they're starting to play hoofball, the future of our youngsters will be under threat as who would want to join ER if we're known as a hoofball team. :confused:
Get billy whizz onto this as you get great updates from him at these games,Would be interested in his view ,as yes that would be worrying if it's true

[SaulGoodman]

I'd've thought the U20's manager would've had more say than TB and MM as to what style of football they play.

[Paisley Hibby]

He could have worked out after his first training session that we don't have one decent full back in the squad. We keep reading about all the players Marsella is aware of, but all we can bring in during the transfer window is ONE player who is any better than what we already had. And the decision not to offer Rooney a peremanent deal is looking like a great decision right enough.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting for a minute getting rid of TB, but yet again we have brought in a manager who is unable to make any improvements 'til he brings in his own players. Yet TB is the experienced Premiership manager we have supposedly been needing. I will give him the same time I gave PF, but I can only imagine anyone who claims he will get it right is basing that on what he achieved at ICT, because so far I have seen nothing in his time with us to suggest he will.

I share your concerns. I also worry about some of the things Butcher says. That stuff on Saturday about playing the kids was just setting himself up for a fall. He seemed to be saying he thinks we are going to lose whatever we do. So what kind of message is that with the relegation trap door not far away?

[SaulGoodman]

I share your concerns. I also worry about some of the things Butcher says. That stuff on Saturday about playing the kids was just setting himself up for a fall. He seemed to be saying he thinks we are going to lose whatever we do. So what kind of message is that with the relegation trap door not far away?

Mind when we were getting beat under Fenlon and he just said we were unlucky and that we have a good team?

What was said after those interviews again? Oh yeah "I wish Fenlon was more honest"

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Wasn't that long ago someone posted here just how good the U20's were playing and the fact they were playing the ball on the deck also, praise was also being given to McDonagh who runs them and the fact he was getting them playing it the right way. If as you say they're starting to play hoofball, the future of our youngsters will be under threat as who would want to join ER if we're known as a hoofball team. :confused:

Totally agree with you:agree:

[SMAXXA]

Think you are confusing chucking it with not giving your mate a game.

Easy done.

No at all. I'm expressing my view on the basis of TBs numerous negative comments the latest being bring in the youth and bin the rest. I understand he will get frustrated as we do but let's go back to basics and make us hard to beat, like we were when he first came in.....what's changed. Managers and coaches are there to do just that, coach the guys you have as you can only piss with the cock you have. I'd go as far as saying if we need to even go 5 at the back to have a solid base give that a try. The constant changing of personnel each game doesn't help either, how can we get continuity when we've got different starting line ups each game.

its really easy to hang players out to dry, drop them, criticise them and so on, it's a lot harder to pull them together and use your abilities to get an average to poor team playing better than we have, even if that's 5% better. If players constantly hear how bad they are, they will start to believe that, they are fickle lets be honest. Yes I like the fact he is being more honest than previous managers but lets not hide behind the squad, go on and make them better by coaching and changing things.

[SMAXXA]

Wasn't that long ago someone posted here just how good the U20's were playing and the fact they were playing the ball on the deck also, praise was also being given to McDonagh who runs them and the fact he was getting them playing it the right way. If as you say they're starting to play hoofball, the future of our youngsters will be under threat as who would want to join ER if we're known as a hoofball team. :confused:

I've been at the last couple of u20 games and was really disappointed with the way we played. Not saying we don't try to play football at any point, seemed to me that there was a reluctance to build from the back so defenders and midfielders taking it of the keeper etc. I was told that MM goes daft if they do this which is more in keeping with the directness and style of play the new manager wants to play.

left disappointed after each game as I expected better but would like to see more of them to give a more informed view rather than just in those 2 games.

Cummings was stand out each time.

[truehibernian]

I've been at the last couple of u20 games and was really disappointed with the way we played. Not saying we don't try to play football at any point, seemed to me that there was a reluctance to build from the back so defenders and midfielders taking it of the keeper etc. I was told that MM goes daft if they do this which is more in keeping with the directness and style of play the new manager wants to play.

left disappointed after each game as I expected better but would like to see more of them to give a more informed view rather than just in those 2 games.

Cummings was stand out each time.

You might have been disappointed mate but the results speak for themselves - they are at the top end of the league, scoring goals and winning games. That breeds confidence.

My thoughts are that Kevin could seize on the opportunity here, if of course given the chance, and come out looking rosy if he 'leads' Hibs to safety (or top 6) and to a few wins. Also perhaps a way to say 'told you so' (or GIRUY) :aok: I'd be quite up for giving him the armband and saying 'go on then' - and add in Black, Baptie, Horribine and Cummings. Kevin played centrally and allowed to sit/dictate.

The players are the ones who fans should be venting anger at for the mess they've again allowed to find themselves in - once over that white line they all have the ability to win games and play well. Some are totally unprofessional and see this game clearly as a means to just pay the bills - there seems to be no drive to make the step up, and even if they have been told their future lies elsewhere, they surely want to try and earn as good a contract elsewhere.

Poor attitudes = poor results.

[easty]

I've been at the last couple of u20 games and was really disappointed with the way we played. Not saying we don't try to play football at any point, seemed to me that there was a reluctance to build from the back so defenders and midfielders taking it of the keeper etc. I was told that MM goes daft if they do this which is more in keeping with the directness and style of play the new manager wants to play.

left disappointed after each game as I expected better but would like to see more of them to give a more informed view rather than just in those 2 games.

Cummings was stand out each time.

I don't believe that at all. If they were consistently rolling it out to the defenders and losing the ball right away I could understand him being annoyed, but theres no danger he's actively wanting the keeper to go long. That's just nonsense.

[Kato]

No at all. I'm expressing my view on the basis of TBs numerous negative comments the latest being bring in the youth and bin the rest. I understand he will get frustrated as we do but let's go back to basics and make us hard to beat, like we were when he first came in.....what's changed. Managers and coaches are there to do just that, coach the guys you have as you can only piss with the cock you have. I'd go as far as saying if we need to even go 5 at the back to have a solid base give that a try. The constant changing of personnel each game doesn't help either, how can we get continuity when we've got different starting line ups each game.

its really easy to hang players out to dry, drop them, criticise them and so on, it's a lot harder to pull them together and use your abilities to get an average to poor team playing better than we have, even if that's 5% better. If players constantly hear how bad they are, they will start to believe that, they are fickle lets be honest. Yes I like the fact he is being more honest than previous managers but lets not hide behind the squad, go on and make them better by coaching and changing things.

If players don't want to hear bad words said abou them they can always choose to take some responsibility and actually put a shift in.

[SMAXXA]

I don't believe that at all. If they were consistently rolling it out to the defenders and losing the ball right away I could understand him being annoyed, but theres no danger he's actively wanting the keeper to go long. That's just nonsense.

Dont be so sure, I'm certainly not in the habit of making things up so you can believe what you like. You see Ben Williams looking to build from the back eh, hoof every time and from what I witnessed it's the same I'm the games I've seen in the 20s.

[Kato]

[/B] You see Ben Williams looking to build from the back eh, hoof every time

Simply not true.

[easty]

[/B]
Dont be so sure, I'm certainly not in the habit of making things up so you can believe what you like. You see Ben Williams looking to build from the back eh, hoof every time and from what I witnessed it's the same I'm the games I've seen in the 20s.

I'm not saying you're making it up, you said you were told, and I believe you. I just don't believe what you're being told is true.

Not playing out from the back can be a confidence thing, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Williams tends to go long. We're a team completely lacking in confidence right now.

[Paloschi]

A few points

1. If Butcher has already lost the dressing room what we need is a new dressing room.

2. If Players are winging get them out. This is the same bunch of pu$$ies that were too scared to play at Easter Road earlier in the season.

3. Focus and build a team around youth. Forster, Stanton, Harris and Cummings are special talents.

4. TB and MM want to be more direct, so what? Mixu, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all spouted about playing entertaining football and provided anything but.

5. I am concerned about TB and his tactics and team selections but it seems no matter what he tries the players are just not good enough again. Haynes, Watmore and Boateng have not improved us a great deal.

6. Give Paul Cairney a 1 year deal. We are a more dangerous team when he plays.

[oconnors_strip]

I was looking on the bounce and Nikki, who posts on here and there, attends most of the under 20's, and she said that they have been playing a lot of hoofball which is down to TB & MM. When I read that, I was concered. And plus, she's been watching them for a while and as I say, attends most matches so she could well be right. Has anyone else noticed it? :boo hoo:

It's not something I (nikki) would make up. Earlier in the season we played the ball on the deck, good passing build up play from the back. Now we tend to have the long hoofball from the keeper or defender, that instruction is coming from MM and not James mcdonaugh! Yes we are getting results still but it's not the same quality football we are used to watching.

[oconnors_strip]

I don't believe that at all. If they were consistently rolling it out to the defenders and losing the ball right away I could understand him being annoyed, but theres no danger he's actively wanting the keeper to go long. That's just nonsense.

I've heard MM pass on those instructions at under 20 games as sit just in front of him

[SMAXXA]

I've heard MM pass on those instructions at under 20 games as sit just in front of him

:agree: That and the players who've also told me about the instructions they are given in the dressing room. Still,may not be enough for some fans to believe it. Mind it's upto the managers how they want to play and I'm not saying they are wrong for that, all I'm saying is it wasn't what I expected before I went and I'm not convinced by it but it's early days.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

It's not something I (nikki) would make up. Earlier in the season we played the ball on the deck, good passing build up play from the back. Now we tend to have the long hoofball from the keeper or defender, that instruction is coming from MM and not James mcdonaugh! Yes we are getting results still but it's not the same quality football we are used to watching.

I know you wouldn't make it up. Why does Malpas get involved and what does James think about it?

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

:agree: That and the players who've also told me about the instructions they are given in the dressing room. Still,may not be enough for some fans to believe it. Mind it's upto the managers how they want to play and I'm not saying they are wrong for that, all I'm saying is it wasn't what I expected before I went and I'm not convinced by it but it's early days.

You are reliable and I believe it. But, why is MM getting involved with the under 20's? Isn't James McDonaugh job to do that?

[J-C]

Any management team would obviously want their youth to be playing the same as the 1st team, look at Barca, it's like a conveyor belt of talent all playing the same way, easy to slip into the team whenever they're given a chance.

[GlasgowHibee]

You are reliable and I believe it. But, why is MM getting involved with the under 20's? Isn't James McDonaugh job to do that?

I'd imagine it would be so that the youth players understand what to do if/when they make the first team. It should mean that they'll be fully acclimatized to our new style of play.

[superfurryhibby]

Do people sometimes mistake lack of ability for lack of effort?

I can't think of many, if any, games I have been to this season where I have thought the players aren't trying. I just think a lot of our 1st team squad aren't very good.

Sadly have to agree. I can't really imagine a game where players go out and say to themselves, I can't be ****ed with this. It's down to lack of ability, not lack of effort.

[renato]

SMAXXA and OCS are correct, direction is coming from MM direct to the coaching staff. I don't fundamentally have a problem with this if down the line it 1) leads to winning, pacy, effective counter attacking football (ala ICT early this season) and 2) allows a more seamless transition to the 1st team for the best u20's.

James' football however is / was more pleasing on the eye. Plus it was successful for us too. Lets hope it all falls into place.

[SMAXXA]

Any management team would obviously want their youth to be playing the same as the 1st team, look at Barca, it's like a conveyor belt of talent all playing the same way, easy to slip into the team whenever they're given a chance.


I'd imagine it would be so that the youth players understand what to do if/when they make the first team. It should mean that they'll be fully acclimatized to our new style of play.

:agree: And that's fair enough and understandable. Doesn't mean we have to like it :wink:, mind if it's successful most of us couldn't give a monkeys. I guess we may just have to be patient and hopefully see the fruits of their labour in a year or so time when fully transitioned. I'm just a fan of playing he game the right way and trying to entertain but fully appreciate this isn't always gona get you success and you need to have decent players to bring that success generally.

[JimBHibees]

Think you are confusing chucking it with not giving your mate a game.

Easy done.

:faf::faf:

[steviehibsleith]

A few points

1. If Butcher has already lost the dressing room what we need is a new dressing room.

2. If Players are winging get them out. This is the same bunch of pu$$ies that were too scared to play at Easter Road earlier in the season.

3. Focus and build a team around youth. Forster, Stanton, Harris and Cummings are special talents.

4. TB and MM want to be more direct, so what? Mixu, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all spouted about playing entertaining football and provided anything but.

5. I am concerned about TB and his tactics and team selections but it seems no matter what he tries the players are just not good enough again. Haynes, Watmore and Boateng have not improved us a great deal.

6. Give Paul Cairney a 1 year deal. We are a more dangerous team when he plays.

Stanton is a special talent :aok:
Harris and Cummings are good yet to say how high a level they will achieve hopefully we can develop them
Forster is average from what I have seen. That by many may seem harsh but i doubt many would class him as a special talent.

[Centre Hawf]

Not often do i have inside info but from a couple of recent players to leave I do, both had interesting comments
1. Everything is in place for the club to be succesful, the facilites are outstanding but something just doesnt feel right at the club was their quote
2. The players havent bought into TB & MM with TB allegedly telling them he's getting rid of players as he can replace them for half the money
3. The players arent happy about the treatment of thomson who is widely held as the best footballer in the team

As i said its not often i have information however due to players moving to a club where i have a mate he passed this on to me!

I am utterly sick and tired of hearing about him now. I hope to god he gets emptied soon purely on the basis that right now he's poisonous to the club just by being present, if Butcher and Malpas don't want to pick him for whatever reason then I back them 100 percent. The club is bigger than a player.

When I say he's poisonous I don't mean he's a trouble maker (I wouldn't know) but if the players have taken Thomsons side over the manager and the fans are backing Thomson over the manager, how the **** are we ever going to move forward as a club?

He is ONE player.

[Hainan Hibs]

I am utterly sick and tired of hearing about him now. I hope to god he gets emptied soon purely on the basis that right now he's poisonous to the club just by being present, if Butcher and Malpas don't want to pick him for whatever reason then I back them 100 percent. The club is bigger than a player.

When I say he's poisonous I don't mean he's a trouble maker (I wouldn't know) but if the players have taken Thomsons side over the manager and the fans are backing Thomson over the manager, how the **** are we ever going to move forward as a club?

He is ONE player.

and a hun:agree:

[jeffers]

and a hun:agree:

Clown

[weonlywon6-2]

im reading all these stories about tb and mm being this and that,has anyone heard any negative stories coming out of inverness players whilst they were there,then at long last we can maybe get rid of these stories once and for all

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

and a hun:agree:

Embarrassing.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I am utterly sick and tired of hearing about him now. I hope to god he gets emptied soon purely on the basis that right now he's poisonous to the club just by being present, if Butcher and Malpas don't want to pick him for whatever reason then I back them 100 percent. The club is bigger than a player.

When I say he's poisonous I don't mean he's a trouble maker (I wouldn't know) but if the players have taken Thomsons side over the manager and the fans are backing Thomson over the manager, how the **** are we ever going to move forward as a club?

He is ONE player.

I agree, couldn't care less. Hopefully he is not being a wee moan behind the scenes and upsetting the players but if that's the case they need to stop being wee lassies and get on with the job they're paid handsomely for.


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

[JimBHibees]

I agree, couldn't care less. Hopefully he is not being a wee moan behind the scenes and upsetting the players but if that's the case they need to stop being wee lassies and get on with the job they're paid handsomely for.


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

What are the odds? :rolleyes:

[silverhibee]

im reading all these stories about tb and mm being this and that,has anyone heard any negative stories coming out of inverness players whilst they were there,then at long last we can maybe get rid of these stories once and for all

One ICT player being interviewed yesterday did say that since Yogi had been there the pinning up against walls, headbutts and door smashing had stopped. :greengrin

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

What are the odds? :rolleyes:

I'd hate to hypothesise.

I don't know the boy, I have played rugby and football since I was 16 and have seen guys that are regarded the best not getting their game. It's a nightmare because you DO begin to doubt the coach when things aren't going well.

The only options are he is emptied, or Hibs start winning without him.

That said, this could all be g**h and just hear say.

[bawheid]

I know you wouldn't make it up. Why does Malpas get involved and what does James think about it?

This says it all, eh? 'Malpas' and 'James'... :faf:

'Malpas' is the assistant boss and therefore a bit higher up the food chain than 'James'. Aka he's "in cherge" as Jocky might say.

Quite frankly I don't give a monkeys what James thinks, as long as his team are winning games, breeding confidence and providing players for the first team.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

This says it all, eh? 'Malpas' and 'James'... :faf:

'Malpas' is the assistant boss and therefore a bit higher up the food chain than 'James'. Aka he's "in cherge" as Jocky might say.

Quite frankly I don't give a monkeys what James thinks, as long as his team are winning games, breeding confidence and providing players for the first team.

:aok:

[Weir7]

This says it all, eh? 'Malpas' and 'James'... :faf:

'Malpas' is the assistant boss and therefore a bit higher up the food chain than 'James'. Aka he's "in cherge" as Jocky might say.

Quite frankly I don't give a monkeys what James thinks, as long as his team are winning games, breeding confidence and providing players for the first team.

Hibs first team management team have no durisdiction over academy teams. James is head of academy coaching. Which I believe ia more important than asst manager.

Bringing through youth players is vital to future of hibs.

Malpas needs to but out and keep his hoofball away from ballers.

From age of seven when players join the academy programme they are taught how to play the game properly. Ten plus years before they make it to the first team.

Where now they are told forget all that. Smash it long


Malpas but out.

[Weir7]

and a hun:agree:

More a hibby than you id wager

[Weir7]

I know you wouldn't make it up. Why does Malpas get involved and what does James think about it?

What would you think if someone was trying to undermine you at your work

[SMAXXA]

What would you think if someone was trying to undermine you at your work

Theres so much undermining going on KT on MM, MM taking it out on JMcd, Rod signing players undermining TB :greengrin

It's no like inverness have had successful u20 sides so that brand of football clearly isn't right at that level :wink:. On a serious note I can understand people being peeved at a very successful youth set up with a great reputation for playing good football being changed to, well be lest technical and more old school.

I think we, not just at hibs but in Scotland should be nurturing players and coaching them to play football on the deck from the back, Dundee United U20s did it against us a few weeks ago and was great to watch at times. We have to make our players more technical and better which for me involves giving them the ball in tight areas etc not just shelling it over their head at most opportunities. It won't always work and you will get beat at times but the end result will be technically better players with more to offer no??

who's actually came through the inverness youth ranks of note?

[Jonnyboy]

and a hun:agree:

Huns are famous for their bigotry but you leave them standing in those stakes

[bawheid]

Hibs first team management team have no durisdiction over academy teams. James is head of academy coaching. Which I believe ia more important than asst manager.

Bringing through youth players is vital to future of hibs.
.

When was the last time Hibs brought through a player that either massively enhanced the team and/or was sold for a decent sum?

Fletcher? Don't think even he was a product of the youth system though.

Maybe it's high time the management did become involved.

[Weir7]

When was the last time Hibs brought through a player that either massively enhanced the team and/or was sold for a decent sum?

Fletcher? Don't think even he was a product of the youth system though.

Maybe it's high time the management did become involved.

Fletcher came through the system

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

What would you think if someone was trying to undermine you at your work

Stick a copper pipe up their erse:wink:

[Weir7]

Stick a copper pipe up their erse:wink:

Kinky.

James hope you're reading this, some good advice.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Kinky.

James hope you're reading this, some good advice.

I hope he is too as my boss' name is James and he's a hibee anaw:greengrin

[bawheid]

Fletcher came through the system

Ok, and he made his debut ten years ago. Anyone since?

It's another part of the club that has failed over recent years.

[Billy Whizz]

Kinky.

James hope you're reading this, some good advice.

I think we should keep James away from this thread, let him get on with the great work he's doing.

[oconnors_strip]

I think we should keep James away from this thread, let him get on with the great work he's doing.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[h1bs4life]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

10/10

[Heisenberg]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

Spot on.

[rcarter1]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

Bring on the revolution!.

And KT, if you actually gave 100%, and not 75, you'd be in the team.

[matty_f]

and a hun:agree:

Give it up.

[matty_f]

Ok, and he made his debut ten years ago. Anyone since?

It's another part of the club that has failed over recent years.

We have Forster,Stanton, Hanlon, Stevenson, Cummings, Handling, and Harris (off the top of my head) that are first team players this season. I would suggest this gives a very strong counter to your point that the youth system is failing.

[jakeshibs]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

well said 10/10

[bawheid]

We have Forster,Stanton, Hanlon, Stevenson, Cummings, Handling, and Harris (off the top of my head) that are first team players this season. I would suggest this gives a very strong counter to your point that the youth system is failing.

Of those only Hanlon and Stevenson are established first team players IMO. I like them both - particularly Lewis - but their overall track record as Hibernian players isn't that great really.

The others have a chance but they've all got a lot to prove before we can call them successes.

I'm not trying to do the guys involved in the academy down btw - somebody else brought it into this thread as yet another way to try and have a go at our relatively brand new management team.

My view is that the manager and first team coaches are the top men at the club, or at least should be. They should have free reign to do whatever the hell they like to get us back at least punching our weight. If their methods include getting involved in the academy so be it. They'll be judged by their results over the long term (i.e. not a few months).

A few noses at the club are being put out of joint, it seems. Good.

[JimBHibees]

Of those only Hanlon and Stevenson are established first team players IMO. I like them both - particularly Lewis - but their overall track record as Hibernian players isn't that great really.

The others have a chance but they've all got a lot to prove before we can call them successes.

I'm not trying to do the guys involved in the academy down btw - somebody else brought it into this thread as yet another way to try and have a go at our relatively brand new management team.

My view is that the manager and first team coaches are the top men at the club, or at least should be. They should have free reign to do whatever the hell they like to get us back at least punching our weight. If their methods include getting involved in the academy so be it. They'll be judged by their results over the long term (i.e. not a few months).

A few noses at the club are being put out of joint, it seems. Good.

Totally agree if my job was on the line I would be sure I was making myself involved in whoever was bringing through players that can help the first team and how that process worked. I'll say it again we really need to allow the management team real time to change the culture at the club. It will take time however the undermining of them by constantly going on about players not playing or questioning any input or not with the youth teams is totally counter productive. It is poor at the moment however sometime changes take a significant time and you need to go one or two steps back to end up further forward in the end. They need real patience and goodwill from the fans in allowing them to do their job not nipping away behind their backs. When they arrived people were indicating they needed time to turn it round well this is the time when it is most important to show that. It is easy to support when we are winning however it is the sign of the real fan IMO to support when struggling.

[Hibstrooper]

It's no like inverness have had successful u20 sides so that brand of football clearly isn't right at that level :wink:. On a serious note I can understand people being peeved at a very successful youth set up with a great reputation for playing good football being changed to, well be lest technical and more old school.

It wasn't that long ago people were asking questions about why we didn't have one style of football running through the club as it prepares youth players better for the transition to the first team.

Seems like we are now trying to do that and folk still ain't happy!

TB & MM seem to be ruffling a few feathers, good as it isn't difficult to see the whole club needs a shake. It might not be an easy ride at times but it's time to back the horse we've got and let them ride with it.

[Ronniekirk]

We have Forster,Stanton, Hanlon, Stevenson, Cummings, Handling, and Harris (off the top of my head) that are first team players this season. I would suggest this gives a very strong counter to your point that the youth system is failing.
Think poster was highlighting its a while ie Fletcher since we had someone come through that other teams would be outbidding each other to take off our hands.The academy hoped to pay it's own way by doing this or at least partially pay it's own way The youth players we sold on over the years were all a product of being scouted and coached by whom as someone got it right then We had ambition taking john park from Dundee United and Celtic took him from us as he had proven track record So it pays to get it right at that level I have no idea how Mutch the academy and east mains costs to run ,but to date it hasnt done what Mowbray s vision was and that brings it full circle as we struggle to get a complete team in and have them for five years .We chop and change so there is no continuity Stanton and Harris and Cummings might go on to be the next batch and there might be more coming through .I think this is what Petrie expected,but instead he has hired and fired and paid off managers and players alike as we have stumbled from one crisis to next ,and we see results of that on the field .So we need to give T B the full three years of his contract and see what's improved or we will be stuck in bottom six,and make little progress while losing yet more fans and that is something we just can't afford.We just have to accept that this season it's all about avoiding getting dragged unto play offs as unpalatable as that is for a lot of us .This team as is lacks fight and bottle ,never mind skill pace etc so we defo don't want to be in play offs as other team would fancy thier chances simple as .

It's now all about what T B is allowed to do in summer Transfer window and if he can bring in the players he wants when he wants ,what kind of start we make .that could determine if we are merely top six or top four.

[Brightside]

Some of the comments on recent threads are a real eye opener. Rumours or facts ? KT's mates telling us him and other players not happy that he is not getting a game. That will be the same bunch of non achievers who have got us to a magnificent 7th in the league with possibility of getting dragged into the play offs in the worst top league in living memory. Now someone in the academy not happy that MM getting involved in how the younger teams are playing. The number of people trying to undermine the management team are unbelievable. The most important people at Hibs are Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas ,you do it their way or you GTF as far as I am concerned. Thought at the time TB and MM were good appointments ,if some of the stories are true and they are ruffling a few feathers all the better. Seen the team they built turn us over at the Easter Road and even watching them yesterday theres few if any of our current squad would get a game for Inverness.

:top marks:top marks:top marks

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Huns are famous for their bigotry but you leave them standing in those stakes

Amongst the worst you've ever read on the internet? ;-)

[renato]

To be fair I don't think many (any?) are trying to undermine the new mgmt team, just stating that there has been input into the style of play in the youth teams. I'm all for that, if done in the right manner, as TB, MM and SM should have carte blanche over how the club is run.

Let's hope it leads to the same type of footy that they managed to produce laterally at ICT.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

Is there a twenties game tonight?

[SMAXXA]

Is there a twenties game tonight?

Aye against st j

[Hibiza]

bin them, esp Collins.

[Eyrie]

Not keen on the idea that the first team management should be dictating how the U20s play.

We should have a consistent style of play for all of our youth teams to make it easier for the kids to develop in a familiar setting, and the U20s should be the end stage for those that make it.

Allowing the first team management to decide how the U20s play will mean that every time the manager changes, there is a new approach to be taken by the U20s and that can't be good for kids trying to make the grade.

To my mind it should be the other way round - the first team manager should be appointed from a shortlist of candidates who share our philosophy on how to play the game and that will ease the U20s into the first team squad more effectively than having to learn a new style of play.

[Blaster]

Sorry mate i disagree. The 20s should be told to play the same way as the first team so that if playing well and get called up they know what to expect.

[Eyrie]

Sorry mate i disagree. The 20s should be told to play the same way as the first team so that if playing well and get called up they know what to expect.

And what happens when the next manager wants to play a different way?

[Centre Hawf]

And what happens when the next manager wants to play a different way?

Not meaning to play Devils Advocate, but you could argue that we're in that situation now.

[Blaster]

And what happens when the next manager wants to play a different way?

All managers have different styles. For me up to the 20s should be as you state up to the academy and be about ball retention and enhancing their basic skills

however the purpose for the 20s is to prepare players for first team action, playing with the big boys and into the first team managers playing style.

[Nailrod]

Ok, and he made his debut ten years ago. Anyone since?

It's another part of the club that has failed over recent years.
It's not the youth system that's failing, as this thread clearly shows (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?280348-East-Mains-doing-its-job).
(Sorry to be acting as my own 'publicity agent', but I'm genuinely interested in responses from people who have a view on this subject, and maybe my thread title wasn't the best choice for the topic).

What is failing, and has been failing for years, is the process for transitioning talented youngsters into the first team and enabling them to achieve their full potential. For several years now we have had a youth squad that has been far more successful than it was when the 'golden generation' was coming up through the ranks, and not one single one of these players has gone on to make it big and been sold on for a substantial sum.

[Niffy]

Maybe other teams youth teams are just really *****, and we're least *****.
Hence the young ***** players are just as ***** when progressing.

Maybe not as well though.