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RIP
03-03-2014, 06:30 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. After being hunted down by Tommy Craig and Tim Gardiner, he reluctantly turned up to take his place on the stage for the speeches. (thanks HH - missed this bit out)

The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

Saorsa
03-03-2014, 06:38 PM
Aye, but there's a 5 year plan now :agree:

Spike Mandela
03-03-2014, 06:39 PM
Aye, but there's a 5 year plane now :agree:

It's a rolling five year plan.:cb

hibbydog
03-03-2014, 06:43 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

Don't disagree with any of that, but I've never came across a kick ass idea for how we break the cycle ?

Depressing as it is, I don't think the Hibs board have any ideas for this either

Hibs7
03-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Don't disagree with any of that, but I've never came across a kick ass idea for how we break the cycle ?

Depressing as it is, I don't think the Hibs board have any ideas for this either

I think it is up to the manager to facilitate the change ... The infrastructure is there, a strong manager who will challenge or cajole the board to provide the backing, to put a top 6 team on the park is the last piece of the jigsaw I think.

At the moment I still think TB is the man !

Was at east mains today for the first time . Extremely impressive !

ancient hibee
03-03-2014, 07:15 PM
Obviously Rod will have to take charge of training,team structure and defending corners as he is obviously to blame.Or should he employ coaches with a reasonable track record and let them do their job properly.In the meantime he can stop signing internationalists like Riordan,Stokes,McGivern,Robertson,Thomson,Craig.

--------
03-03-2014, 07:17 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day


Gogs, my friend, you're singing my song.

I cannot believe that not one of the managers who have come to ER between Collins' leaving and now was without a clue.

I cannot believe that not one of them was capable of turning things around - given appropriate support from the board and a club where everyone from top to bottom was committed to success on the pitch as the Number One objective and aim of the whole operation.

But I don't believe that that last bit - about commitment and desire and focus on the team - has been true at ER since Mowbray left in the autumn of 2006.

I said a while back that Farmer and Petrie get not a penny of my money until they convince me that they really want to see Hibs thriving as a football club rather than just another 'institution' in the social make-up of the city of Edinburgh.

As of this date, I remain unconvinced.

I've been persuaded for a long, long time now that The White Knight and his Sancho Panza are quite content with things as they are.

They've missed the one point about Hibs that you would think would be unmissable - that Hibs exists to put a football team on the pitch capable of winning games and exciting the supporters whose cash provides so much of the income that keeps everything going.

Farmer promised to preserve the club for the future - well, he has. But it's as if he's killed it off and pickled the corpse in formaldehyde like a laboratory specimen. All the bits are there, but the life has gone.

I'm actually reaching the point where I no longer care.

Groundhog Day? You bet. :agree:

eastterrace
03-03-2014, 07:36 PM
Gogs, my friend, you're singing my song.

I cannot believe that not one of the managers who have come to ER between Collins' leaving and now was without a clue.

I cannot believe that not one of them was capable of turning things around - given appropriate support from the board and a club where everyone from top to bottom was committed to success on the pitch as the Number One objective and aim of the whole operation.

But I don't believe that that last bit - about commitment and desire and focus on the team - has been true at ER since Mowbray left in the autumn of 2006.

I said a while back that Farmer and Petrie get not a penny of my money until they convince me that they really want to see Hibs thriving as a football club rather than just another 'institution' in the social make-up of the city of Edinburgh.

As of this date, I remain unconvinced.

I've been persuaded for a long, long time now that The White Knight and his Sancho Panza are quite content with things as they are.

They've missed the one point about Hibs that you would think would be unmissable - that Hibs exists to put a football team on the pitch capable of winning games and exciting the supporters whose cash provides so much of the income that keeps everything going.

Farmer promised to preserve the club for the future - well, he has. But it's as if he's killed it off and pickled the corpse in formaldehyde like a laboratory specimen. All the bits are there, but the life has gone.

I'm actually reaching the point where I no longer care.

Groundhog Day? You bet. :agree:

the thing is you really do care as you wouldnt be replying, we all care but just a tad cheesed off.

Fife-Hibee
03-03-2014, 07:54 PM
Gogs, my friend, you're singing my song.

I cannot believe that not one of the managers who have come to ER between Collins' leaving and now was without a clue.

I cannot believe that not one of them was capable of turning things around - given appropriate support from the board and a club where everyone from top to bottom was committed to success on the pitch as the Number One objective and aim of the whole operation.

But I don't believe that that last bit - about commitment and desire and focus on the team - has been true at ER since Mowbray left in the autumn of 2006.

I said a while back that Farmer and Petrie get not a penny of my money until they convince me that they really want to see Hibs thriving as a football club rather than just another 'institution' in the social make-up of the city of Edinburgh.

As of this date, I remain unconvinced.

I've been persuaded for a long, long time now that The White Knight and his Sancho Panza are quite content with things as they are.

They've missed the one point about Hibs that you would think would be unmissable - that Hibs exists to put a football team on the pitch capable of winning games and exciting the supporters whose cash provides so much of the income that keeps everything going.

Farmer promised to preserve the club for the future - well, he has. But it's as if he's killed it off and pickled the corpse in formaldehyde like a laboratory specimen. All the bits are there, but the life has gone.

I'm actually reaching the point where I no longer care.

Groundhog Day? You bet. :agree:

Well put Doddie 10/10

basehibby
03-03-2014, 08:00 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

Great post - groundhog day is exactly how it feels - sadly we've been on a downward spiral since JC walked with mediocre signings leading to uninspiring football leading to boredom and negativity in the stands - leading to declining ST sales - more journeymen - steadily worse football and on it goes...

In one sense it has seemed churlish to complain too much when you look at the Yams and the Huns and the pickle they've got themselves in through their ridiculous over-extravagence, but looking back you have got to say that JC was bang on the money and the neglect of the football team - in comparison to what was spent on infrastructure at least - has hurt the club.

You've got to hope that lessons have been learned in that the actual MAIN POINT of a football club is to entertain and bring joy (and hence bums on seats) through putting together a bloody decent football team! The signing of Butcher and Malpas - a management team with a pedigree befiting a club of Hibs' stature - is a step in the right direction. Going forward I hope they're given the scope and flexibility to make this club as good as they can possibly make it - we all hope they'll find a few diamonds in the dust with the aid of our man Kinsella, but we cannot rely on that and deadline day signings alone to create a team that'll get Easter Road jumping.

Hibercelona
03-03-2014, 08:02 PM
The thing is, the managers are getting the cash they need. We still outspend most of the clubs in the league. But players just aren't performing in a Hibs top for whatever reasons.

But as you say, it's the same cycle of problems.

We turn up for a game in hope that something will be different this time, but it never really is any different. Even when we win a game now, I rarely ever walk away feeling enthralled with what i've just seen.

The football is bland at best. Very occasionally do we even get the basics of football right.

I don't believe that any of the players that we've brought into Easter Road in the last several years are anywhere near as bad as they had been performing while in a Hibs top.

I can't help thinking that there is something else going on, which prevents any player in a Hibs top, playing anywhere near their full ability.

The players don't seem capable of getting out of 1st gear. They actually look quite tired and unfit for purpose. But you just know that once they leave here and go somewhere else, they'll miraculously be able to step up their game again. They'll suddenly have pace, stamina and skill on a level that they just didn't have while playing for us.

There's something wrong within the club thats affecting the way that players approach the games on the pitch. But what could it actually be?

HUTCHYHIBBY
03-03-2014, 08:12 PM
Looking back you have got to say that JC was bang on the money and the neglect of the football team - in comparison to what was spent on infrastructure at least - has hurt the club

Yip, you dinnae get any trophies for having such fine facilities, I'll never understand why it was deemed necessary to spend so much on the non-playing side of the club at a time when Scottish football was/is in steady decline.

GoldenEagle
03-03-2014, 08:20 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day


Gogs.. you were there not too long ago at ER (PF was still there) where we were advised that the club were actively looking at revamping the football side of the business to incorporate a style of football as "We can't go on changing the manager every two/three years".. I paraphrase but you were there and will be able to articulate it better than I'm doing.

I took that to mean that we would actively embrace a DoF and have a coach which suits the ethos of the football club. What we have is another manager who will change the entire playing pool and move to a style which is there to win a game at all costs. Now if that's happening then there will be no one more happy than I, however I feel that after a honeymoon period we're actually not that better off.

TB has until Xmas as that will have given him two transfer windows and if we cannot take advantage (again!) of no Rangers or Hearts then, well you know how it works as we've seen it now several times in the last 10 years.

wandering_hibee
03-03-2014, 08:24 PM
Now live a 4 hour drive from Edinburgh so over the last few seasons have found it easy enough to justify to myself why I shouldn't attend home matches but still like to go along when we are in Aberdeen, Inverness or Dingwall. However even those matches are a chore at the moment and much as I hate to say it, I question the wisdom of building a training centre so far away from Edinburgh. We seemed to be a much more committed team when we trained locally, even if the facilities were poorer. Like some others, I imagine, I wish we could turn the clock back.

TRC
03-03-2014, 08:24 PM
Maybe the wrong thread. I've been wondering for a while now, we all have a rough knowledge of the wage celling in force at easter Road but I always wonder how the bonus scheme works do we have one but does anyone else think that at some of the problems that could come from players feeling like they are not being rewarded enough for goals etc. We all know how well hibees have performed in the worst squads?

Iggy Pope
03-03-2014, 08:33 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day


A grand sentiment but sadly inaccurate.
John Collins was present at the grand opening, I stood right in front of him as he made his speech.

WestStandMoaner
03-03-2014, 08:37 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

100% agree with your post Gogs

Viva_Palmeiras
03-03-2014, 08:40 PM
Maybe well see a return to youth sprinkled with Marsalla's nuggets?

I couldn't believe we found ourselves in the same predicament - the board were warned (courtesy BaldyFoghorn iirc) that they had one last chance to get it right - blown yet again.

On a brighter note look at Aberdeen after years as a basket case (Smithy must go FFS - took them to the last day needing a draw for the title!) they've got someone in who clicked with them and they're on the up - still a lot to do and actually win something but an indication of how things can work with the right due in charge. Terry it's over to you...

But folks - let's not give up on Tel yet!!! Unfortunately Watmore's injury has come at a pivotal moment.

basehibby
03-03-2014, 08:49 PM
Yip, you dinnae get any trophies for having such fine facilities, I'll never understand why it was deemed necessary to spend so much on the non-playing side of the club at a time when Scottish football was/is in steady decline.

I can actually understand why the stadium was completed when it was - we basically got a good deal due to the depressed state of the building industry and lower material costs at the time - I think on that basis the board decided it was an opportunity to save a few bob on money that was always envisioned as being earmarked to complete the stadium.

What has always left me shaking my head is that, having spent so extravagently on a great theatre of dreams there seemed to be no real effort to try and fill it - if you built a great music venue you would make sure and open it with a big name act - not just a bunch of buskers off the street corner. For me that should have been part and parcel of the budget for the stadium - a boost to the manger's budget designed to attract extra bums onto all those nice new seats.

Maybe I'm missing something, like maybe a lack of faith in Hughes - the manager of the time - ruled out such extravagence. But I think if I was to level a criticism at Hibs under Petrie's stewardship it would be a lack of imagination to see that sometimes you need to think outside the rigid boundaries of bottom lines for the sake of the bigger picture. Football is after-all a form of showbiz at some level and we fans need a bit of razzamataz from time to time to keep us interested.

Thecat23
03-03-2014, 09:08 PM
Agree with a couple of things the OP is saying. One thing I didn't think was, that Hibs would become as force in Scotland. Look at our history and when have we ever been a real force bar Famous Five and The Tornados?

A good way to judge is to look at the past. We have never really won many trophies really. The size of a club like hibs you would think we would have won a lot more than we have.

As for the stadium, we HAD to build it to secure a place for Hibs to play. Look over the road now. They are on their knees and need a new stand. I'm delighted Petrie done what he done back then but I also think that's when he should have gone. It insures we have a ground we can be proud of and one that holds other cup and international games.

As for Collins, he may have had a great work ethic installed in him but his signings were rotten. We played bad many times under him as well. The fact he's not went on to anything to shout about or been picked up says it all.

Right now something must change. New board with new ideas perhaps? New owner who may want to kick on now the foundations are set? Farmer I'll in my eyes always be a real hero as he saved us. But should he now sell? IMO he should be looking yes and I'd like new faces to go with a new manager. Fresh ideas is a must.

Folk turning their back now I can see why they are angry but I don't get the anger towards TB. He needs his own team and his own time to build it. Only a fool would think Hibs were good enough to turn it around with some of this lot.

I'd like to think the club would do something to try get these fans back because unlike others TB took another SPFL club to 2nd after building a team that he moulded. He can do this here I believe given the support.

If we start running out in front of under 8k then we won't improve because we will have no money. So again the board must take action and sort this out or face fans like many on here who moan there arse off (Me included at times) and it will eat the club from inside and we will never step out this huge dark cloud that sits over us.

greenpaper55
03-03-2014, 09:17 PM
Obviously Rod will have to take charge of training,team structure and defending corners as he is obviously to blame.Or should he employ coaches with a reasonable track record and let them do their job properly.In the meantime he can stop signing internationalists like Riordan,Stokes,McGivern,Robertson,Thomson,Craig.

Something is not right and that's for sure but does Rod do his job properly ?, when PF resigned i heard Rod on the radio defending the points won already by PF in the wee run we had before things went off the rails. He was defending numbers and not the way we had been playing, does he even know what a team playing good football looks like, does he even care ?. A good chairman should have a grasp of not only the finances but he should also be in touch of what the paying customers demand instead of looking at a points total and deciding that is the benchmark of a good football team regardless of the way the points had been won. Sure Rod does not pick the team but i think his lack of football knowledge is there for all to see and maybe because of this he has a hands off approach in his dealings with his many managers who are under no pressure until it's time to spend money of course.

jeffers
03-03-2014, 09:27 PM
Agree with a couple of things the OP is saying. One thing I didn't think was, that Hibs would become as force in Scotland. Look at our history and when have we ever been a real force bar Famous Five and The Tornados?

A good way to judge is to look at the past. We have never really won many trophies really. The size of a club like hibs you would think we would have won a lot more than we have.

As for the stadium, we HAD to build it to secure a place for Hibs to play. Look over the road now. They are on their knees and need a new stand. I'm delighted Petrie done what he done back then but I also think that's when he should have gone. It insures we have a ground we can be proud of and one that holds other cup and international games.

As for Collins, he may have had a great work ethic installed in him but his signings were rotten. We played bad many times under him as well. The fact he's not went on to anything to shout about or been picked up says it all.

Right now something must change. New board with new ideas perhaps? New owner who may want to kick on now the foundations are set? Farmer I'll in my eyes always be a real hero as he saved us. But should he now sell? IMO he should be looking yes and I'd like new faces to go with a new manager. Fresh ideas is a must.

Folk turning their back now I can see why they are angry but I don't get the anger towards TB. He needs his own team and his own time to build it. Only a fool would think Hibs were good enough to turn it around with some of this lot.

I'd like to think the club would do something to try get these fans back because unlike others TB took another SPFL club to 2nd after building a team that he moulded. He can do this here I believe given the support.

If we start running out in front of under 8k then we won't improve because we will have no money. So again the board must take action and sort this out or face fans like many on here who moan there arse off (Me included at times) and it will eat the club from inside and we will never step out this huge dark cloud that sits over us.

Agree with almost all of that TC23. I'd like to see someone new in charge at ER, not someone who is going to take wild risks, but someone who has the club in his blood, someone who actually cares about what happens on the park. I may be well off the mark, but I always get the feeling with Petrie he doesn't really care as long as we are muddling along.

Where I don't really agree is regards TB. My feeling towards him is one of disappointment not anger. You keep saying it's not his fault, he needs to get his own players in and I don't entirely disagree. But imo and I suppose I sound a bit like a broken record I still feel he should be doing a lot better with the players at his disposal. He's the experienced SPL manager we supposedly needed but in some recent games if I didn't check the dugout I could swear I watching Hibs under PF.

Moon unit
03-03-2014, 09:27 PM
I can actually understand why the stadium was completed when it was - we basically got a good deal due to the depressed state of the building industry and lower material costs at the time - I think on that basis the board decided it was an opportunity to save a few bob on money that was always envisioned as being earmarked to complete the stadium.

What has always left me shaking my head is that, having spent so extravagently on a great theatre of dreams there seemed to be no real effort to try and fill it - if you built a great music venue you would make sure and open it with a big name act - not just a bunch of buskers off the street corner. For me that should have been part and parcel of the budget for the stadium - a boost to the manger's budget designed to attract extra bums onto all those nice new seats.

Maybe I'm missing something, like maybe a lack of faith in Hughes - the manager of the time - ruled out such extravagence. But I think if I was to level a criticism at Hibs under Petrie's stewardship it would be a lack of imagination to see that sometimes you need to think outside the rigid boundaries of bottom lines for the sake of the bigger picture. Football is after-all a form of showbiz at some level and we fans need a bit of razzamataz from time to time to keep us interested.
Nailed it!..

PatHead
03-03-2014, 09:32 PM
Must admit I have felt we have lacked a real leader on the park for years which leaves us a soft touch. If that was sorted it would be a big step, the team lacks character.

snooky
03-03-2014, 09:36 PM
Personally, I don't expect us to win the league. I'm not even too upset if we don't win a cup.
What I do expect is to be entertained for most of the 90mins of the games I attend. Win or lose.

Trust me, the only people in this world who pay money to be inflicted with pain are masochists, folk who go to the dentist and Hibs supporters.

Kato
03-03-2014, 09:37 PM
I've never really been a fan or a hater of Petrie. I'll say this though he's done a great job in his time as far as giving Hibs a platform to do our business in the foreseeable future.

Time for a new face though and to find a way that will bring someone in to lead the club and who will effectively represent Hibs' football interests on the park, in the press and with the footballing authorities. All three of those aspects have been neglected for too long.

stevejordan
03-03-2014, 09:44 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

Every Manager appointed since JC Left has just got worse and worse its like a plane in a tail spin out of control money has been given by the board to each one but it just seems to get worse year on year.

To be fair at least we are on a solid financial footing but results on the park mean more.

I Am not the one to critisise as i rarely set foot now but when i see my son and grandson not interested anymore it hurts 7 years now of pain and the same leader in charge we need a fresh start a new begining to bring us all back together.

Thecat23
03-03-2014, 09:59 PM
Agree with almost all of that TC23. I'd like to see someone new in charge at ER, not someone who is going to take wild risks, but someone who has the club in his blood, someone who actually cares about what happens on the park. I may be well off the mark, but I always get the feeling with Petrie he doesn't really care as long as we are muddling along.

Where I don't really agree is regards TB. My feeling towards him is one of disappointment not anger. You keep saying it's not his fault, he needs to get his own players in and I don't entirely disagree. But imo and I suppose I sound a bit like a broken record I still feel he should be doing a lot better with the players at his disposal. He's the experienced SPL manager we supposedly needed but in some recent games if I didn't check the dugout I could swear I watching Hibs under PF.

I'd love to see someone who cared like we do take over. Like you say not someone daft who's going to ruin us but I would fully expect Farmer would only sell to someone genuine thankfully.

I do see what you mean regarding performances. When I say it's not his fault I'm more meaning the poor players he's left with. I do think we should defo be doing better. Also think he should be playing Thomson as well now. Any bitterness they had I'm sure it's settled now and I hope he plays next game. He's also got his tactics wrong in some games. Not sure if he is just trying them out to see who's up to the task but sadly it's not working.

I do think there was a huge over reaction on Friday night though. I'm sure he'll come good because he knows this league well. If he fails it's not worth thinking about mate because where the hell do we go from that?

jeffers
03-03-2014, 10:04 PM
I'd love to see someone who cared like we do take over. Like you say not someone daft who's going to ruin us but I would fully expect Farmer would only sell to someone genuine thankfully.

I do see what you mean regarding performances. When I say it's not his fault I'm more meaning the poor players he's left with. I do think we should defo be doing better. Also think he should be playing Thomson as well now. Any bitterness they had I'm sure it's settled now and I hope he plays next game. He's also got his tactics wrong in some games. Not sure if he is just trying them out to see who's up to the task but sadly it's not working.

I do think there was a huge over reaction on Friday night though. I'm sure he'll come good because he knows this league well. If he fails it's not worth thinking about mate because where the hell do we go from that?

Can't argue with any of that mate. Only thing I would say is while Friday was very very poor I'm still more pissed off about the Raith game. Dundee Utd are a decent side, the same cannot be said for Raith - their results before and since the played us would back that up. The fact TB couldn't get a result against them gives me some concern.

Thecat23
03-03-2014, 10:07 PM
Can't argue with any of that mate. Only thing I would say is while Friday was very very poor I'm still more pissed off about the Raith game. Dundee Utd are a decent side, the same cannot be said for Raith - their results before and since the played us would back that up. The fact TB couldn't get a result against them gives me some concern.

Not going to lie that result has bothered me. Thinking about the next round now and not being in it made life harder for him. I hope he learns from it and gets a good run next time. Maybe another final ;)

jeffers
03-03-2014, 10:09 PM
Not going to lie that result has bothered me. Thinking about the next round now and not being in it made life harder for him. I hope he learns from it and gets a good run next time. Maybe another final ;)

We live in hope mate, the story of being a Hibby !

GreenCastle
03-03-2014, 10:26 PM
Some good and interesting posts on this thread.

I think from now till the end of the season and beyond is huge for the future of our club.

Next season there will be another huge opportunity to do well with no yams or sevco.

We can't have a season of transition next year - we need a serious improvement in quality. If not Butcher and especially the board will be accountable.

I really hope we can improve as we have suffered enough rubbish for the last 7 years and we are due a half decent team to change for 2nd / 3rd.

A real leader / a creative midfielder and a style of football that keeps the ball from being punted up every 2 touches would help.

As fans we deserve better - as we have stood up and been counted for years!

EastCalderHibby
03-03-2014, 10:28 PM
Yip, you dinnae get any trophies for having such fine facilities, I'll never understand why it was deemed necessary to spend so much on the non-playing side of the club at a time when Scottish football was/is in steady decline.

Agreed But it,s done now, and as each new manager has said the facilities /stadium are 1st class but the class on the park is woeful.
I am sure petrie said after em was completed that 80% of intake will now go to building the team.
My idea of building a team is to make it stronger and more competitive on the park WHERE IT MATTERS
But since then we have been weak with no fight when needed and no leader on the park since le god. How many times do we have to rebuild ffs
In Terry i trust but he will need to be able to spend :tbgwa:

RIP
03-03-2014, 10:54 PM
A grand sentiment but sadly inaccurate.
John Collins was present at the grand opening, I stood right in front of him as he made his speech.

Alongside me mate. I felt he was very muted for what should have been an exciting day for a Hibs manager.

What was your take?

HUTCHYHIBBY
04-03-2014, 01:08 AM
Must admit I have felt we have lacked a real leader on the park for years which leaves us a soft touch. If that was sorted it would be a big step, the team lacks character.

Its not just the team that lacks character its the club as a whole. There just seems to have been a general malaise allowed to take root around Hibs as a club, how that's rectified I've no idea.

Jones28
04-03-2014, 01:26 AM
Aye, but there's a 5 year plan now :agree:

It's actually 5 years whenever a new manager takes over, so Petrie isn't lying...

:greengrin:

--------
04-03-2014, 01:27 AM
Its not just the team that lacks character its the club as a whole. There just seems to have been a general malaise allowed to take root around Hibs as a club, how that's rectified I've no idea.


There's a general disaffection among the fans - I think a majority of the support feel alienated from the club and from the team. I don't really feel that this is MY team or MY club, and I'd guess there are a whole lot of guys who feel the same.

Quick informal survey - how often do posters on this forum refer to Hibs players by their first names? ow many of the players have nicknames? I remember Onion, Shades, Paddy, Cilla, Sloop, Nijinsky, Mickey, Seamus, BBJ, Razor, Crunchy, Benny .... Darren Jackson was Dazza n]and Keith Wright was just KEITH-KEITH-KEITH .... Scotty, Thommo, Gaz and Deek.

Team for the Motherwell game? Does it really matter? Will it make a difference who plays? Don't really think so, don't really care.

We've had nearly 25 years of Farmer and nearly 15 of Petrie, and truth is I'm totally pissed off right now and more interested in the Test Match in Cape Town than I am in anything happening at ER.

(Aussies leading by 234 with all their second-innings wickets standing at the end of the 3rd day, btw, and boiling up nicely for a close finish provided the weather stays OK.)

Nailrod
04-03-2014, 07:17 AM
There's a general disaffection among the fans ... and truth is I'm totally pissed off right now and more interested in the Test Match in Cape Town than I am in anything happening at ER. Agree with every word you say, from the start, through everything that's contained in these three dots, right down to your closing remarks about the cricket.

drumatic44
04-03-2014, 07:44 AM
Top post, nail on head my friend, couldn't have put it better. Something undoubtedly happens to players psychologically when they arrive at Hibs and not in a good way. !!
Slightly off topic, anybody agree with me that we need an enforcer, a total beast in the middle of the park,(dare I say Matty Jack,haven't had one for a long time.).That midfield is totally lightweight.
Allez les Verts originales.!!

Lucius Apuleius
04-03-2014, 08:58 AM
Definitely groundhog day. However I will be renewing my ST as I feel TB is indeed the man who can take us up a notch or two. I have always admired his ethics and work ethos. Being an infrastructure type guy I still believe we did the right thing by building the stadium and training centre. What was not envisaged as far as I can see was the global recession. This has made people more careful with where their hard earned cash goes, and quite rightly so too. Obviously this means less cash for players which means less good players which means less of us go which means less cash for players ad infinitum. I live in hope that TB will turn tnis club around. As I said they will get my ST money this time even though I will be lucky to make 50% of the games. Not sure they will get it again in a years time though.

bobbyhibs1983
04-03-2014, 10:22 AM
Alot of intresting views being shared on this thread!

For myslef, and my point of view i think there is some sorta lack of mentality i think the word is,i guess a lot of rpide as well could also be said.
I guess my point is just accepting things.Like the raith game.In the last few season if ir eclal we have prob been beaten by a lower divison team,
why?
why should we, fans and the club accept this?
i understand that games like that happen,days like that happen and sometimes a lower division team plays well above there weight and fair enough.BUT it has happeend more than once for us, It just seems we. hibs, just shrugg our shoulders and accept it.Then it happens again and what happens? we yet again shrugg our shoulders and accept it.

I think somehow someone should have the guts to say okay hers how thigns are gonna be this ,this , and that and we are not gonna accept anything less that that.I guess its like we have certain "standards".we should atleast have some but for the life of me i can not see if any we do have.

One player i admired was roy keane. He may have be an arrogant so and so but atleast he expected the best from himself.his team mates and everyone around himself.Im sure somone above mentioned a leader,leaders above and i agree.

As a few other psoters have mentioned, we seem unfit, lack of pace , a lack of this a lack of that.

Now i dunno much but unless we have someone who will demand high standards and expect the best and nothing less will do,then i feel we will always be , just another club who should do better.

Shore Thing
04-03-2014, 11:46 AM
expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings.

A couple of years ago, my dad was given advice on tyres from Tom Farmer himself, in one of his tyre emporiums.
"Go for the cheap ones", he said, "see all these expensive tyres, total waste of money. They're all exactly the same".

Now, I don't want to defame STF's business in any way, but I reckon this business philosophy has filtered through to the running of Hibs, and especially the purchase of players. "A footballer is a footballer is a footballer", "these players that say they're worth £xx per week are no better than someone doing the same job in the reserves of some lower division English team" - is the message I've been hearing for several years now.

I'm with Terry Butcher when he says the past is gone and we can't change it. We can only affect the present and the future.
The current management team say they have targets in mind, including at least one 'name player'. The board absolutely have to back the management team financially this summer. EVEN if it means spending a little bit more on two or three 1st choice players (I repeat - FIRST CHOICE players, not third or fourth rate players who happen to fall within our pay scale).

At last we have a manager again who is not afraid to play exciting youngsters in the first team. Spend the necessary money on a couple of quality, experienced players and use our own home-grown talent to bulk up the squad, rather than wasting the same amount of wages on five or six second-rate 'journeymen'.

--------
04-03-2014, 12:38 PM
A couple of years ago, my dad was given advice on tyres from Tom Farmer himself, in one of his tyre emporiums.
"Go for the cheap ones", he said, "see all these expensive tyres, total waste of money. They're all exactly the same".

Now, I don't want to defame STF's business in any way, but I reckon this business philosophy has filtered through to the running of Hibs, and especially the purchase of players. "A footballer is a footballer is a footballer", "these players that say they're worth £xx per week are no better than someone doing the same job in the reserves of some lower division English team" - is the message I've been hearing for several years now.

I'm with Terry Butcher when he says the past is gone and we can't change it. We can only affect the present and the future.
The current management team say they have targets in mind, including at least one 'name player'. The board absolutely have to back the management team financially this summer. EVEN if it means spending a little bit more on two or three 1st choice players (I repeat - FIRST CHOICE players, not third or fourth rate players who happen to fall within our pay scale).

At last we have a manager again who is not afraid to play exciting youngsters in the first team. Spend the necessary money on a couple of quality, experienced players and use our own home-grown talent to bulk up the squad, rather than wasting the same amount of wages on five or six second-rate 'journeymen'.


I would agree - it's true that you can find some very good players in the lower leagues and sign them up relatively easily - much the same way as you can find some very good bargains in charity shops. But it isn't good sense to buy absolutely EVERYTHING out of charity shops and Poundstretcher, and Aldi may be low-priced, but they don't always have what I want at the time I want it, which is why most folks still go to the mainstream supermarkets for their groceries.

The truth is, even tyres AREN'T all exactly the same, and for my own car I'd rather take it (for anything) to a guy who really knows what he's doing than to Kwik-Fit or any other chain where the most the guy knows is how to fit a new part, not how to do a proper repair.

It's amazing what one or two quality players can do to transform a team. Alex Edwards and Alan Gordon were the finishing touches to the Tornadoes; the replacement of Paul Wright with Keith Wright in 1991; Latapy and Sauzee coming to us in 1999 totally transformed the way the team played.

These were great players, and I'm not suggesting that we're going to see their likes at ER again soon (maybe never!), but the principle still remains valid.

The fact is that there are players playing for Hibs today whom many netters would find hard to recognise if they met them on the street. There's been a grey sameness about the squad for far too long, and even when we do find a gem like Griffiths, we let him slip through our fingers far too easily. How many of us are REALLY CONVINCED that the board made a SERIOUS effort to sign him when the opportunity was there? When he was getting himself in trouble with the fans and on Twitter and so on and he seemed to be more trouble than he was worth? When a reasonably serious offer MIGHT JUST have persuaded Wolves to part with him? We're told an offer was made, but how serious was it? And how hard did the board push it?

Too much same old, same old, Mr Petrie. Football isn't about penny-plain tradesmen who'll "do a job for the club". How I HATE that expression - do a job? Football isn't a job, it's an art-form.

I don't want Rushton & Co, Builders and Decorators, I want Rembrandt, Monet, Cezanne. I don't want X-Factor, I want Pavarotti, Maria Callas, the New York Met and all the trimmings. I may DRIVE a Skoda, but in my heart I crave a Ferrari.

So either get it sorted, Messrs F&P, or get lost and let someone else have a go.

Shore Thing
04-03-2014, 12:57 PM
Rembrandt, Monet, Cezanne. Pavarotti, Maria Callas, the New York Met and all the trimmings.

Hibs class :agree:

silverhibee
04-03-2014, 02:56 PM
Obviously Rod will have to take charge of training,team structure and defending corners as he is obviously to blame.Or should he employ coaches with a reasonable track record and let them do their job properly.In the meantime he can stop signing internationalists like Riordan,Stokes,McGivern,Robertson,Thomson,Craig.

McManus Rooney Sheridan Naismith McCourt Goodwin and Taylor. :cb

ancient hibee
04-03-2014, 04:19 PM
McManus Rooney Sheridan Naismith McCourt Goodwin and Taylor. :cb

And your point is?

I get used to reading absolute c**p on here but now it seems one of Scotland's most successful ever companies isn't too great really.See that guy Farmer-knows nothing.

RIP
04-03-2014, 05:30 PM
A really good, measured set of replies.

I wrote this feeling fairly negative and was hoping your responses would help recharge my batteries. Every time we wan't to give up and think there is nothing we (the Hibernian FC custodians) can do to help re-energise our club we take energy from fellow supporters. We cannot create a plan for action unless we have a good handle on the problem. Do you change an organisation from the bottom up, the top down or in both directions at the same time? We may all have a slightly different take on things but for me there seems to a broad consensus that:-




Tom Farmer provides financial stability, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater
Rod Petrie is a knowledgeable football adminstrator, well respected in football circles
Rod's been an excellent servant to the club in nearly 20 years at the helm
By selling players who wanted to leave he reinvested in infrastructure and established the foundations for success
He has done his best sourcing managers and funding signings
However in seven years the key performance indicators on our main business - FOOTBALL have significantly underperformed
We have tried changing coaching teams every season or two with no uplift in results
Constant squad churns have created a disconnect between supporters and players
Home form has suffered greatly as a result
There has been a decline in confidence around the club, a risk of disaffected supporters walking away
As a football business we are underachieving and at risk of losing our future customer base
Two former full-time CEO's have left the business
Rod may eat, sleep, breathe Hibs but the question is - can he be chairman, chief executive and football director all on his own?
Or does he need an injection of new blood and new ideas to help him turn the club around?

--------
04-03-2014, 06:30 PM
A really good, measured set of replies.

I wrote this feeling fairly negative and was hoping your responses would help recharge my batteries. Every time we wan't to give up and think there is nothing we (the Hibernian FC custodians) can do to help re-energise our club we take energy from fellow supporters. We cannot create a plan for action unless we have a good handle on the problem. Do you change an organisation from the bottom up, the top down or in both directions at the same time? We may all have a slightly different take on things but for me there seems to a broad consensus that:-



Tom Farmer provides financial stability, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater
Rod Petrie is a knowledgeable football adminstrator, well respected in football circles
Rod's been an excellent servant to the club in nearly 20 years at the helm
By selling players who wanted to leave he reinvested in infrastructure and established the foundations for success
He has done his best sourcing managers and funding signings
However in seven years the key performance indicators on our main business - FOOTBALL have significantly underperformed
We have tried changing coaching teams every season or two with no uplift in results
Constant squad churns have created a disconnect between supporters and players
Home form has suffered greatly as a result
There has been a decline in confidence around the club, a risk of disaffected supporters walking away
As a football business we are underachieving and at risk of losing our future customer base
Two former full-time CEO's have left the business
Rod may eat, sleep, breathe Hibs but the question is - can he be chairman, chief executive and football director all on his own?
Or does he need an injection of new blood and new ideas to help him turn the club around?





In regard to the points you make here concerning Farmer and Petrie, if I went to a five-star restaurant for a meal, having been assured that the owner was one of the soundest people in the business, and that he employed one of the best Cordon Bleu chefs in the country in the kitchen, and the meal turned out to be uneatable, I would complain, loud and long.

Farmer may well be a highly successful businessman; Petrie may well be a highly-respected football administrator; right now the food they're putting on the table is entirely unacceptable, at least to this customer's palate.

Every sign I see tells me that we're rotting on the tree. :fuming:

Hibernia Na Eir
04-03-2014, 07:34 PM
apathy and ground hog day.......much of a same!

sahib
04-03-2014, 08:23 PM
I think it is up to the manager to facilitate the change ... The infrastructure is there, a strong manager who will challenge or cajole the board to provide the backing, to put a top 6 team on the park is the last piece of the jigsaw I think.

At the moment I still think TB is the man !

Was at east mains today for the first time . Extremely impressive !

No wonder the team are rubbish if the "coaching staff" have never been to the training ground.

Hibercelona
04-03-2014, 08:43 PM
A really good, measured set of replies.

I wrote this feeling fairly negative and was hoping your responses would help recharge my batteries. Every time we wan't to give up and think there is nothing we (the Hibernian FC custodians) can do to help re-energise our club we take energy from fellow supporters. We cannot create a plan for action unless we have a good handle on the problem. Do you change an organisation from the bottom up, the top down or in both directions at the same time? We may all have a slightly different take on things but for me there seems to a broad consensus that:-




Tom Farmer provides financial stability, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater
Rod Petrie is a knowledgeable football adminstrator, well respected in football circles
Rod's been an excellent servant to the club in nearly 20 years at the helm
By selling players who wanted to leave he reinvested in infrastructure and established the foundations for success
He has done his best sourcing managers and funding signings
However in seven years the key performance indicators on our main business - FOOTBALL have significantly underperformed
We have tried changing coaching teams every season or two with no uplift in results
Constant squad churns have created a disconnect between supporters and players
Home form has suffered greatly as a result
There has been a decline in confidence around the club, a risk of disaffected supporters walking away
As a football business we are underachieving and at risk of losing our future customer base
Two former full-time CEO's have left the business
Rod may eat, sleep, breathe Hibs but the question is - can he be chairman, chief executive and football director all on his own?
Or does he need an injection of new blood and new ideas to help him turn the club around?



Rod Petrie is a knowledgeable "accountant". I've said it all along.

He's been great for us in terms of balancing figures. But that's the only quality he adds to the club. Therefore he shouldn't be in the position that he is at the club, because the position he is in requires more diverse skills that he simply doesn't have. He's completely out of touch with the fans and I suspect equally out of touch with managers and other staff members at the club.

There's no questioning his commitment to the club, but he falls short on too many key areas for me.

Iggy Pope
04-03-2014, 08:58 PM
Alongside me mate. I felt he was very muted for what should have been an exciting day for a Hibs manager.

What was your take?

I spoke to him a lot throughout the development and he was enthusiastic.
I was gobsmacked when he resigned but it was the day after.

RIP
04-03-2014, 09:48 PM
I spoke to him a lot throughout the development and he was enthusiastic.
I was gobsmacked when he resigned but it was the day after.

If you know him better than I do then I'll gladly bow to your inside knowledge.

The way I heard it John had a meeting on the day of the Training Centre opening where he gave the chairman his criteria for continuing as manager. He did not participate in any of the meet and greet activities before the speeches. Management were all asking people if they had seen him - there was some frantic last-minute searching going on. Tommy Craig was dispatched to track him down.

He told his players at training the following morning and his previously typewritten letter was a press release by lunchtime. He also alluded to 'interference from above' both at the time and more recently when Terry Butcher was appointed

Iggy Pope
04-03-2014, 10:16 PM
If you know him better than I do then I'll gladly bow to your inside knowledge.

The way I heard it John had a meeting on the day of the Training Centre opening where he gave the chairman his criteria for continuing as manager. He did not participate in any of the meet and greet activities before the speeches. Management were all asking people if they had seen him - there was some frantic last-minute searching going on. Tommy Craig was dispatched to track him down.

He told his players at training the following morning and his previously typewritten letter was a press release by lunchtime. He also alluded to 'interference from above' both at the time and more recently when Terry Butcher was appointed

Dear me. I don't know him at all well but recognise him when he is two feet away.Sorry to take the edge off your thundering opener.

You believe what you hear.

I looked after the fit out at East Mains. On the day we gave Hibs the keys he sat beside me in the First Tesm Changing Room and told me he thought the place would 'change the players lives'. He knew that me and a few of the staff were good Hibbies (as did the rest of the management and board involved).
He was enthusiastic and was all the way through the development.
Right up to and including Opening Day.
After that? Over to those ITK like yourself. And believe me, I'm as seek as you are.

stevejordan
04-03-2014, 10:23 PM
JC Was the last decent Manager we have had since he departed we have had 7 years of duds Jury is out on our current Commander in Cheif.

sven nil
05-03-2014, 12:04 AM
A couple of years ago, my dad was given advice on tyres from Tom Farmer himself, in one of his tyre emporiums.
"Go for the cheap ones", he said, "see all these expensive tyres, total waste of money. They're all exactly the same".

Now, I don't want to defame STF's business in any way, but I reckon this business philosophy has filtered through to the running of Hibs, and especially the purchase of players. "A footballer is a footballer is a footballer", "these players that say they're worth £xx per week are no better than someone doing the same job in the reserves of some lower division English team" - is the message I've been hearing for several years now.

I'm with Terry Butcher when he says the past is gone and we can't change it. We can only affect the present and the future.
The current management team say they have targets in mind, including at least one 'name player'. The board absolutely have to back the management team financially this summer. EVEN if it means spending a little bit more on two or three 1st choice players (I repeat - FIRST CHOICE players, not third or fourth rate players who happen to fall within our pay scale).

At last we have a manager again who is not afraid to play exciting youngsters in the first team. Spend the necessary money on a couple of quality, experienced players and use our own home-grown talent to bulk up the squad, rather than wasting the same amount of wages on five or six second-rate 'journeymen'. did he offer your dad one goodyear by any chance,,,,,,,,,, that would be freaky,,,,,,

drifter533814
06-03-2014, 04:45 AM
Yip, you dinnae get any trophies for having such fine facilities, I'll never understand why it was deemed necessary to spend so much on the non-playing side of the club at a time when Scottish football was/is in steady decline.
I seem to remember petrie promising us that once the trainng ground and stadium was finished then we would have a winning team on the park.

Weststandwanab
06-03-2014, 06:01 AM
It's a rolling five year plan.:cb Rolling but rudderless.


It's actually 5 years whenever a new manager takes over, so Petrie isn't lying...

:greengrin: TB does not have a five year contract.


Rod Petrie is a knowledgeable "accountant". I've said it all along.

He's been great for us in terms of balancing figures. But that's the only quality he adds to the club. Therefore he shouldn't be in the position that he is at the club, because the position he is in requires more diverse skills that he simply doesn't have. He's completely out of touch with the fans and I suspect equally out of touch with managers and other staff members at the club.

There's no questioning his commitment to the club, but he falls short on too many key areas for me. Who do you have in mind ?


I seem to remember petrie promising us that once the trainng ground and stadium was finished then we would have a winning team on the park. Maybe the stadium is not yet finished.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-03-2014, 06:39 AM
I seem to remember petrie promising us that once the trainng ground and stadium was finished then we would have a winning team on the park.

Sounds a bit rash from Rodney...

stanton_4
06-03-2014, 06:43 AM
[QUOTE=Gogs43;3922334] He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

This is what has always disappointed me about Collins. Rather than stay and fight it out, raise awareness or make a fist of it... call it what you will, he turned his back on the "club he loves" and scuttled off giving little explanation other than a derogatory glance in the direction of the board. For what ever reason and which ever way I look at it, when I look back I feel let down by him. I know I know, he was let down by the board yada yada yada but in my opinion he gave up without too much of a fight and left us high and dry. Feel free to come back at me and cite all the short comings of The Tash and Co but the fact will remain, Collins gave up and walked.

IWasThere2016
06-03-2014, 07:14 AM
I pity anyone who listens to a word RP has to say.

Anyone seen this 5-year plan - what year are we in of the initial 5 years, and what progress have we made? :faf:

Nailrod
06-03-2014, 08:06 AM
Anyone seen this 5-year plan - what year are we in of the initial 5 years, and what progress have we made?I've just been reading my bible, and what's worrying me is that like the Pharaoh of ancient Egypt, we're just coming to the end of the 'seven good years', and must now look forward to the 'seven lean years'... :paranoid::eek::worried::panic:

Mikey
06-03-2014, 12:51 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. After being hunted down by Tommy Craig and Tim Gardiner, he reluctantly turned up to take his place on the stage for the speeches. (thanks HH - missed this bit out)

The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day

Do any of these points ever get raised at your LWT meetings?

HIBERNIAN-0762
06-03-2014, 02:24 PM
The thing is, the managers are getting the cash they need. We still outspend most of the clubs in the league. But players just aren't performing in a Hibs top for whatever reasons.

But as you say, it's the same cycle of problems.

We turn up for a game in hope that something will be different this time, but it never really is any different. Even when we win a game now, I rarely ever walk away feeling enthralled with what i've just seen.

The football is bland at best. Very occasionally do we even get the basics of football right.

I don't believe that any of the players that we've brought into Easter Road in the last several years are anywhere near as bad as they had been performing while in a Hibs top.

I can't help thinking that there is something else going on, which prevents any player in a Hibs top, playing anywhere near their full ability.

The players don't seem capable of getting out of 1st gear. They actually look quite tired and unfit for purpose. But you just know that once they leave here and go somewhere else, they'll miraculously be able to step up their game again. They'll suddenly have pace, stamina and skill on a level that they just didn't have while playing for us.

There's something wrong within the club thats affecting the way that players approach the games on the pitch. But what could it actually be?

Spot on and I have been asking this question for many a year now, it's just impossible to put your finger on why this is happening and more worryingly it shows no sign of getting any better.

I will give TB time to bring his own players in but as you say any player that signs for us looking really good at another club seems to fall well short of what we expect, this to me is the biggest mystery of all.

TrinityHibs
06-03-2014, 04:29 PM
In regard to the points you make here concerning Farmer and Petrie, if I went to a five-star restaurant for a meal, having been assured that the owner was one of the soundest people in the business, and that he employed one of the best Cordon Bleu chefs in the country in the kitchen, and the meal turned out to be uneatable, I would complain, loud and long.

Farmer may well be a highly successful businessman; Petrie may well be a highly-respected football administrator; right now the food they're putting on the table is entirely unacceptable, at least to this customer's palate.

Every sign I see tells me that we're rotting on the tree. :fuming:

I like the analogy Doddie but I don't think its quite accurate. STF might be the significant investor in the restaurant who you never see but is there in the background somewhere. RP would be the minority shareholder who manages the restaurant front of house. Call him the maitre'd. Both the majority shareholder and maitre'd know they need a good chef but as the restaurant is in Edinburgh they cannot get a Michelin Star chef as they are either away working in London, Madrid or Paris or working in one of the more famous establishments. Working within the pool of available talent they select chef's who are generally considered to be worth taking on. The chef then appoints some junior chefs and between them they purchase the basic ingredients necessary to produce quality dining. The principal investor knows that the chef should have a good kitchen to work in and the maitre'd realises that the restaurant area should be brought up to a high standard. Sufficient money is also set aside to buy the necessary cooking ingredients and employ waiters.

On the face of it everything has been done to make the restaurant a success. Due to the fickle market some of the chef's turn out to be less talented than their CV suggested and the quality of fayre is sub standard, sometimes the ingredients used are sub standard and the meals are poor, the waiters sometimes have an off day, soup gets spilled and the experience is poor other days the junior chef forgets to put in salt and the experience is bland. What we want is the principal shareholder to be invisible, the maitre'd to ensure that the restaurant runs smoothly, the main chef to pull together a top class menu which is then prepared by the junior chefs who mix the ingredients correctly and then the waiters deliver the product to a clientele who will remember and recommend the restaurant.

The maitre'd, being the face of the restaurant takes the flack if chef, junior chef, menu, ingredients or waiters don't met the demanding standards set by the clientele. He can try and get the best out of the extended food experience but ultimately the ingredients in the form of food and the waiters are what directly impact on the eating experience and if they are not up to it the restaurant starts to fail. Currently our waiters and ingredients need refreshed.

The restaurant currently has three options 1. Close as it is running at an unsustainable loss. 2. Sell. However there are no buyers in the market who would be willing to invest in a specialist food outlet. 3. Employ the best chef available and manage the issues out of the process. For me 3. is the only option and I truly hope that the TB/MM are given the time to replenish the fridge and any waiters who do not buy into their philosophy are shown the door.

As an aside I wouldn't trust Calderwood to put a burger in a roll and Fenlon's best efforts reminded me of boil in the bag beef with Smash.

RIP
06-03-2014, 05:26 PM
Do any of these points ever get raised at our LWT meetings?

Fixed that :wink:

There's often a healthy debate with management but Rod's attendance is infrequent, partly due to his SFA, SPL and contract duties. There was a good discussion last year to formulate the Hibernian Way programme but the partnership within the club (Board, management and supporters organisations) needs more traction before we can work together to put that into implementation

Ronniekirk
06-03-2014, 05:37 PM
Fixed that :wink:

There's often a healthy debate with management but Rod's attendance is infrequent, partly due to his SFA, SPL and contract duties. There was a good discussion last year to formulate the Hibernian Way programme but the partnership within the club (Board, management and supporters organisations) needs more traction before we can work together to put that into implementation

The fact Rod is away doing this other stuff with SFA and SPlL does that possibly mean he isn't able to spend enough time on Hibs business at a time when we really need to working even harder together to think of ways to generate more income for player budget By looks of things increasing cup top up seems to be putting people off taking up this option .Was that something fans had been consulted on and thought was a good idea. Just interested as it's looking like it might not generate the extra income that was hoped ..

Viva_Palmeiras
06-03-2014, 07:43 PM
Fixed that :wink:

There's often a healthy debate with management but Rod's attendance is infrequent, partly due to his SFA, SPL and contract duties. There was a good discussion last year to formulate the Hibernian Way programme but the partnership within the club (Board, management and supporters organisations) needs more traction before we can work together to put that into implementation

I can only assume that the board see being challenged to come up with the elements outlined the Hibernian Way as a longer term issue and punt it into the long grass?

Is it being left for any future fan-based running (if that ever transpires) of the club to grapple with? It's an intangible in the short term I could envisage management at this stage seeing such an initiative as possibly getting in the way of TB rather than just letting him get on with it in the hope that many of these things would fall into place or by the wayside...

FranckSuzy
06-03-2014, 07:50 PM
I can only assume that the board see being challenged to come up with the elements outlined the Hibernian Way as a longer term issue and punt it into the long grass?

Is it being left for any future fan-based running (if that ever transpires) of the club to grapple with? It's an intangible in the short term I could envisage management at this stage seeing such an initiative as possibly getting in the way of TB rather than just letting him get on with it in the hope that many of these things would fall into place or by the wayside...

Some members of LWT had been due to attend the HTC to speak to PF and some of the newer players about The Hibernian Way programme last year when he 'left'. There have been various other delays along the way, some no fault of HFC but others........:cb

Hibrandenburg
07-03-2014, 11:41 AM
Spot on and I have been asking this question for many a year now, it's just impossible to put your finger on why this is happening and more worryingly it shows no sign of getting any better.

I will give TB time to bring his own players in but as you say any player that signs for us looking 'really good at another club seems to fall well short of what we expect, this to me is the biggest mystery of all.

I've been saying for a while that players arriving at ER soon find out that the manager is the weak link in the chain. Why should they take anyone serious who's going to take the bullet when things go tits up?

RIP
07-03-2014, 05:14 PM
The fact Rod is away doing this other stuff with SFA and SPlL does that possibly mean he isn't able to spend enough time on Hibs business at a time when we really need to working even harder together to think of ways to generate more income for player budget By looks of things increasing cup top up seems to be putting people off taking up this option .Was that something fans had been consulted on and thought was a good idea. Just interested as it's looking like it might not generate the extra income that was hoped ..


I can only assume that the board see being challenged to come up with the elements outlined the Hibernian Way as a longer term issue and punt it into the long grass?

Is it being left for any future fan-based running (if that ever transpires) of the club to grapple with? It's an intangible in the short term I could envisage management at this stage seeing such an initiative as possibly getting in the way of TB rather than just letting him get on with it in the hope that many of these things would fall into place or by the wayside...


Some members of LWT had been due to attend the HTC to speak to PF and some of the newer players about The Hibernian Way programme last year when he 'left'. There have been various other delays along the way, some no fault of HFC but others

The supporter team leader working on this project had good traction from a new board member. He got an excellent reception when presenting the proposal to the Board. The trouble is resource. The Hibs Board are almost all non-exec meaning they have a senior management day job and work long hours during the week. The 2 exec members work 6 or 7 days. We volunteers also work long hours (a lot of us away from home) and also volunteer for churches and community groups. So the constraints are there for all to see - there are no quick fixes

To implement a programme of this vision Hibs would need a CEO with the empowerment from the board. I personally think that a CEO role would more than pay for itself, particularly if the salary was based on profit-driven incentives. Look at Leann Dempster and the revenue she has brought to Motherwell. As for TB we were asked to hold off on a meeting with TB until he got his new signings integrated into the squad. We agreed the best time to initiate Hibernian Way will be the close season before the new players arrive.

marinello59
07-03-2014, 07:01 PM
The supporter team leader working on this project had good traction from a new board member. He got an excellent reception when presenting the proposal to the Board. The trouble is resource. The Hibs Board are almost all non-exec meaning they have a senior management day job and work long hours during the week. The 2 exec members work 6 or 7 days. We volunteers also work long hours (a lot of us away from home) and also volunteer for churches and community groups. So the constraints are there for all to see - there are no quick fixes

To implement a programme of this vision Hibs would need a CEO with the empowerment from the board. I personally think that a CEO role would more than pay for itself, particularly if the salary was based on profit-driven incentives. Look at Leann Dempster and the revenue she has brought to Motherwell. As for TB we were asked to hold off on a meeting with TB until he got his new signings integrated into the squad. We agreed the best time to initiate Hibernian Way will be the close season before the new players arrive.

What is the Hibernian way? :confused:

silverhibee
07-03-2014, 07:16 PM
The supporter team leader working on this project had good traction from a new board member. He got an excellent reception when presenting the proposal to the Board. The trouble is resource. The Hibs Board are almost all non-exec meaning they have a senior management day job and work long hours during the week. The 2 exec members work 6 or 7 days. We volunteers also work long hours (a lot of us away from home) and also volunteer for churches and community groups. So the constraints are there for all to see - there are no quick fixes

To implement a programme of this vision Hibs would need a CEO with the empowerment from the board. I personally think that a CEO role would more than pay for itself, particularly if the salary was based on profit-driven incentives. Look at Leann Dempster and the revenue she has brought to Motherwell. As for TB we were asked to hold off on a meeting with TB until he got his new signings integrated into the squad. We agreed the best time to initiate Hibernian Way will be the close season before the new players arrive.

Maybe time for you to step away from LWT if you can't make meetings because of your other interests with the church and the community and also your sons football as well must take up a fair bit of time and as you have said you also work away from home a lot of the time and the long hours too, you must have known about all these commitments before you took on your roll with LWT, the only thing i ask you is, why then did you even get involved with the group with all your other commitments in your life.

Ronniekirk
07-03-2014, 09:12 PM
Maybe time for you to step away from LWT if you can't make meetings because of your other interests with the church and the community and also your sons football as well must take up a fair bit of time and as you have said you also work away from home a lot of the time and the long hours too, you must have known about all these commitments before you took on your roll with LWT, the only thing i ask you is, why then did you even get involved with the group with all your other commitments in your life.
That's what Volunteers do They Volunteer .

ronaldo7
07-03-2014, 09:18 PM
What is the Hibernian way? :confused:

http://www.dublinmapped.com/?search=Royal+Hibernian+Way+Shopping+Centre&plc=4E5YJ2K6Q9

:greengrin

FranckSuzy
07-03-2014, 09:21 PM
That's what Volunteers do They Volunteer .

Yes, but I think SH was trying to say that there's not much use in volunteering if you've not got the time to commit :aok:

silverhibee
07-03-2014, 09:38 PM
That's what Volunteers do They Volunteer .


Yeah they sure do, but you don't volunteer for something if you are a busy person and can't make the meetings due to other commitments.

Ronniekirk
07-03-2014, 09:40 PM
Yes, but I think SH was trying to say that there's not much use in volunteering if you've not got the time to commit :aok:
Ah the over committed volunteer , that has no other volunteers to Delegate to coz they are busy Volunteering else where Nightmare Suzy :soapbox::dizzy:

stevejordan
07-03-2014, 10:11 PM
What i cant understand is why when we bring good experienced football players and managers to our club it ends in failure Mixu came in and failed yet has done well since Derek Adams came in failed and has done well since even Colin Calderwood with a decent track record prior to arrival has done well in the EPL since he left Yogi at Inverness doing well Paddy was a really nice man but the exception to the rule as he was out of his depth from day 1 yet out of all i previously mentioned gets the most backing till eventually he walked.

Countless good proven SPL Players arrive with good pedigree only to soon depart with tails between legs then go on and make good careers else where.

I Do not have the answer i ask the question why ? Why did we not sign Lee when we had the chance ? why did we not accept the financial offer to take Colin Calderwood ? Decisions have been made that do not make any sense.

I Think we finally have the right man in Terry but he seems to have one hand tied behind his back and forced to work with the squad Paddy put together i just wish Terry had been appointed 4 years ago instead off now as budgets are tight and we need to bring in players who can perform for Terry.

FranckSuzy
07-03-2014, 10:59 PM
Ah the over committed volunteer , that has no other volunteers to Delegate to coz they are busy Volunteering else where Nightmare Suzy :soapbox::dizzy:

Bloody do-gooders :rolleyes: :greengrin

Ronniekirk
07-03-2014, 11:11 PM
Bloody do-gooders :rolleyes: :greengrin
The Volantary Act of giving of one s own time to help others .:top marks

FranckSuzy
07-03-2014, 11:53 PM
The Volantary Act of giving of one s own time to help others .:top marks

And to those who help them out :aok:

monktonharp
08-03-2014, 01:05 AM
There's a general disaffection among the fans - I think a majority of the support feel alienated from the club and from the team. I don't really feel that this is MY team or MY club, and I'd guess there are a whole lot of guys who feel the same.

Quick informal survey - how often do posters on this forum refer to Hibs players by their first names? ow many of the players have nicknames? I remember Onion, Shades, Paddy, Cilla, Sloop, Nijinsky, Mickey, Seamus, BBJ, Razor, Crunchy, Benny .... Darren Jackson was Dazza n]and Keith Wright was just KEITH-KEITH-KEITH .... Scotty, Thommo, Gaz and Deek.

Team for the Motherwell game? Does it really matter? Will it make a difference who plays? Don't really think so, don't really care.

We've had nearly 25 years of Farmer and nearly 15 of Petrie, and truth is I'm totally pissed off right now and more interested in the Test Match in Cape Town than I am in anything happening at ER.

(Aussies leading by 234 with all their second-innings wickets standing at the end of the 3rd day, btw, and boiling up nicely for a close finish provided the weather stays OK.)how's the caldercruix cricket pitches looking these days Doddsy? still burn the stolen cars there?:wink:

Nailrod
08-03-2014, 01:12 AM
how's the caldercruix cricket pitches looking these days Doddsy? still burn the stolen cars there?:wink:Now don't be sarcastic. As I'm sure Doddie will shortly confirm, that Saffer/Oz test was a joy to watch. Particularly the SA 2nd innings. Hour after hour they ploughed relentlessly on, without ever looking like scoring, and clearly without a hope of winning. And then just for good measure they managed to lose the game in the last ten minutes by conceding two.

Ah, it was 'Groundhog Day' indeed. Any Hibby would have felt right smack bang at home...

monktonharp
08-03-2014, 01:18 AM
Now don't be sarcastic. As I'm sure Doddie will shortly confirm, that Saffer/Oz test was a joy to watch. Particularly the SA 2nd innings. Hour after hour they ploughed relentlessly on, without ever looking like scoring, and clearly without a hope of winning. And then just for good measure they managed to lose the game in the last ten minutes by conceding two.

Ah, it was 'Groundhog Day' indeed. Any Hibby would have felt right smack bang at home... gotcha drift :greengrin

marinello59
08-03-2014, 05:31 AM
http://www.dublinmapped.com/?search=Royal+Hibernian+Way+Shopping+Centre&plc=4E5YJ2K6Q9

:greengrin



:greengrin

RIP
08-03-2014, 10:55 AM
I think you guys thought I was talking about me. I was talking about management and supporters. I just help to organise the meetings. When I'm no there the job is done by others.

It's not a lack of meetings or ideas that stop organisations making faster progress. It's a shortage of people with spare time to make things happen and reinforcements to replace them when original volunteers pull out.

At Hibs we have loads of people who do great work, much of it which goes unrecognised. LWT is not a group. It is a Gateway where all club organisations meet, share information and build unity. At the last meeting we agreed improvements for 2014. It's still early days.

Ronniekirk
08-03-2014, 11:12 AM
I think you guys thought I was talking about me. I was talking about management and supporters. I just help to organise the meetings. When I'm no there the job is done by others.

It's not a lack of meetings or ideas that stop organisations making faster progress. It's a shortage of people with spare time to make things happen and reinforcements to replace them when original volunteers pull out.

At Hibs we have loads of people who do great work, much of it which goes unrecognised. LWT is not a group. It is a Gateway where all club organisations meet, share information and build unity. At the last meeting we agreed improvements for 2014. It's still early days.

What's in the improvement plan ,actively recruit more volunteers who are also over committed and no time to do anything as too busy volunteering ..Not sure who dig was at ,as don't know enough about it .
It was a bit of fun and Suzy puts in a power of work with others with leith Lynx on a voluntary basis so her do good ears comment was clearly tongue in cheek, hence I gave her:top marks keep on organising .

--------
08-03-2014, 11:48 AM
how's the caldercruix cricket pitches looking these days Doddsy? still burn the stolen cars there?:wink:

My my - that's a well-reasoned and challenging response, is it not? I'll have to think long and hard for an answer to this one. Didn't realise the intellectuals were listening in.


Now don't be sarcastic. As I'm sure Doddie will shortly confirm, that Saffer/Oz test was a joy to watch. Particularly the SA 2nd innings. Hour after hour they ploughed relentlessly on, without ever looking like scoring, and clearly without a hope of winning. And then just for good measure they managed to lose the game in the last ten minutes by conceding two.

Ah, it was 'Groundhog Day' indeed. Any Hibby would have felt right smack bang at home...

Actually, it was. Not a joy to watch, but absolutely fascinating - riveting. SA came within four and a half overs of saving the match and the series - 20-25 minutes, actually.

Test cricket isn't always about high run-rates and 4s and 6s flying off the bat. If that's what you want, watch T20 - or as the Aussies prefer to call it, "Big Bash".

A series that's undecided up to half an hour from the end of play on the last day of the last Test is always worth watching.

You are aware that in an almost identical situation a few years back De Villiers and Du Plessis batted through and saved the game?

mcfly
09-03-2014, 10:40 AM
I appreciate we have a lovely ground and training facility but my concerns are on the pitch.

We spent money on a striker who doesn't score. Works very hard but doesn't look like scoring.

We have a club captain who has given up in my view and cannot drive the team on.

We look like bottom 6 again for the 4th or 5th year in a row but yet we are still charged top whack 400 quid for a season ticket.

Aberdeen showed a bit of ambition signed proven players and a good SPL striker in jan who has scored 8 goals - we got Danny Haynes.

I just think loyal fans deserve better and I'd like the board to seek new investment or explain what the see for hibs in the future.

Sorry but yet another disappointing season for me with little excitement or home wins.....

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 10:43 AM
Is this a re-hash of some earlier thread missed de ja vu or ground hog day? Maybe we just create a weekly thread?

Hibbyradge
09-03-2014, 10:49 AM
I appreciate we have a lovely ground and training facility but my concerns are on the pitch.

We spent money on a striker who doesn't score. Works very hard but doesn't look like scoring.

We have a club captain who has given up in my view and cannot drive the team on.

We look like bottom 6 again for the 4th or 5th year in a row but yet we are still charged top whack 400 quid for a season ticket.

Aberdeen showed a bit of ambition signed proven players and a good SPL striker in jan who has scored 8 goals - we got Danny Haynes.

I just think loyal fans deserve better and I'd like the board to seek new investment or explain what the see for hibs in the future.

Sorry but yet another disappointing season for me with little excitement or home wins.....

board@hibernianfc.co.uk

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 10:50 AM
It's high time people started asking what the boards ambitions are, I'm really surprised its taken this long. There's usually a couple of personal vendettas in place by this time on a Sunday.

So you don't reckon the boards ambition have been questioned until this thread (or a decent period has passed?)

Scouse Hibee
09-03-2014, 10:57 AM
It's pretty clear that our ambitions are financial stability and the long term future of Hibernian Football Club. Admittedly when you take to your seat on a Saturday afternoon it's not at the forefront of your mind but hey ho that's the reality.

blackpoolhibs
09-03-2014, 11:01 AM
To exist it seems, although there is a secret 5 year plan but its anyones guess what it is?

Ronniekirk
09-03-2014, 11:04 AM
I appreciate we have a lovely ground and training facility but my concerns are on the pitch.

We spent money on a striker who doesn't score. Works very hard but doesn't look like scoring.

We have a club captain who has given up in my view and cannot drive the team on.

We look like bottom 6 again for the 4th or 5th year in a row but yet we are still charged top whack 400 quid for a season ticket.

Aberdeen showed a bit of ambition signed proven players and a good SPL striker in jan who has scored 8 goals - we got Danny Haynes.

I just think loyal fans deserve better and I'd like the board to seek new investment or explain what the see for hibs in the future.

Sorry but yet another disappointing season for me with little excitement or home wins.....

By bringing in the Management team we currently have they have shown intent to get that right after some poor appointments. There was never going to be money in January transfer window so we were always going to have to limp on till the summer .Then we will see who comes in and that will partly answer your question .But we won't break from a sound financial structure

mcfly
09-03-2014, 11:18 AM
Is this a re-hash of some earlier thread missed de ja vu or ground hog day? Maybe we just create a weekly thread?

Quite relevant in my view perhaps just not yours.

However before I part with another £400 in blind faith again I would like us to sign players early and show intent.

Why can't we attract investment?
Why do good players at other clubs come to hibs and become hopeless ie our captain.

Part of the other thing making me consider picking my games is the total inept officials we have in Scotland although that is something out with our boards remit!!!

GreenCastle
09-03-2014, 11:24 AM
From the outside it would seem to be STABLE.

Live within our means and if we get lucky with a cup run or league run every so often then great.

The 5 year plan is often mentioned but no one (including the board) actually know what it is and when it started...:rolleyes:

I also get the feeling if the yams are struggling then the board get more leeway - as long as we are't as bad as them fans often put up with it.

The reality is we are in a time of opportunity to push on from the yams and sevco and basically do what Aberdeen have done this season - it's possible the board / manager just need to get it right with who they bring in.

The board are on their final life with TB - if this appointment doesn't work then they MUST go. I do hope it works out though as the fans deserve better :agree:

hibbymick
09-03-2014, 11:31 AM
To exist it seems, although there is a secret 5 year plan but its anyones guess what it is?

Is that the plan that starts every Monday ?

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-03-2014, 11:32 AM
FR is at his sarcastic best today.

Hibbyradge
09-03-2014, 11:35 AM
However before I part with another £400 in blind faith



If you buy before the end ogf March, it's only £380.




However before I part with another £400 in blind faith again I would like us to sign players early and show intent.



Chicken, meet egg. Egg, meet chicken.




Why can't we attract investment?


We do attract investment and at the top of what a SPFL club can expect.



Why do good players at other clubs come to hibs and become hopeless ie our captain.



Hopeless? Liam Craig is our top scorer.

His 9 goals so far this term are more than he scored for St Johnstone in 5 out of his 6 seasons there. (He scored 10 during 2009/10).

Hibbyradge
09-03-2014, 11:40 AM
To exist it seems, although there is a secret 5 year plan but its anyones guess what it is?

I'm fairly certain it was me that first raised the spectre of a 5 year plan. Remember when a group of fans farcically met, and didn't meet, with RP? Or did they? :hmmm:

I think RP was eventually asked if Hibs had a plan and RP said yes, unsurprisingly as that may be.

Hence, the 5 year plan was created.

Phil D. Rolls
09-03-2014, 11:40 AM
FR is at his sarcastic best today.

Putting it another way. People are right to express their views. It's just that this one comes up every week. I know, if you don't like it don't read it, so Ill shut my trap and let the discussion move on.

Phil D. Rolls
09-03-2014, 11:42 AM
I'm fairly certain it was me that first raised the spectre of a 5 year plan. Remember when a group of fans farcically met, and didn't meet, with RP? Or did they? :hmmm:

I think RP was eventually asked if Hibs had a plan and RP said yes, unsurprisingly as that may be.

Hence, the 5 year plan was created.

Remind me, did that involve people waving season ticket books at cameras, or was that something else? I must admit to getting a bit mixed up with all these groups that want to run the club, but never put their name to anything.

Onion
09-03-2014, 11:56 AM
Quite relevant in my view perhaps just not yours.

However before I part with another £400 in blind faith again I would like us to sign players early and show intent.

Why can't we attract investment?
Why do good players at other clubs come to hibs and become hopeless ie our captain.

Part of the other thing making me consider picking my games is the total inept officials we have in Scotland although that is something out with our boards remit!!!

Don't worry, ST sales will be a long overdue reality-check for this Hibs Board. They have lived off the goodwill and blind faith of the followers for longer than they deserved.

Once panic sets in, as it surely will, expect them to find the money and balls to invest early in a few high profile signings.

mcfly
09-03-2014, 11:58 AM
If you buy before the end ogf March, it's only £380.



Chicken, meet egg. Egg, meet chicken.



We do attract investment and at the top of what a SPFL club can expect.



Hopeless? Liam Craig is our top scorer.

His 9 goals so far this term are more than he scored for St Johnstone in 5 out of his 6 seasons there. (He scored 10 during 2009/10).

Top scorer he may be but have u watched him recently

Hibbyradge
09-03-2014, 12:03 PM
Remind me, did that involve people waving season ticket books at cameras, or was that something else? I must admit to getting a bit mixed up with all these groups that want to run the club, but never put their name to anything.

I wasn't there, although I should have been :wink:, but I don't recall season books and cameras being mentioned.

You may be getting confused as I think the meeting was in camera?

easty
09-03-2014, 12:10 PM
Don't worry, ST sales will be a long overdue reality-check for this Hibs Board. They have lived off the goodwill and blind faith of the followers for longer than they deserved.

Once panic sets in, as it surely will, expect them to find the money and balls to invest early in a few high profile signings.

Where do you expect them to find this money? Are there really people that think Rod is sitting on a wee treasure chest but doesn't want to spend it?

12158

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 12:11 PM
Quite relevant in my view perhaps just not yours.

However before I part with another £400 in blind faith again I would like us to sign players early and show intent.

Why can't we attract investment?
Why do good players at other clubs come to hibs and become hopeless ie our captain.

Part of the other thing making me consider picking my games is the total inept officials we have in Scotland although that is something out with our boards remit!!!

I did n't state your point was irrelevant just part of something ready raised elsewhere - and here we are.

Who else is attracting/bringing in additional investment in Scottlsh football? Re enigmatic players I agree and have asked the same. Mickey Weir would like to know too he reckons it's perhaps down to their lack of appreciation just how big the club is.

Edit: Unhappy Smiley is not my addition iphone randomly includes...

jdships
09-03-2014, 12:17 PM
It's pretty clear that our ambitions are financial stability and the long term future of Hibernian Football Club. Admittedly when you take to your seat on a Saturday afternoon it's not at the forefront ofmind your but hey ho that's the reality.

Good post and if we are honest this is/should be the first priority of any football club in Scotland :thumbsup:
"Ok it's not in the forefront of your mind" - correct BUT if you want to still have a team to support then it has to be right up there.
I can't see " glory days" for teams other than "The Glasgow Mafia " with their massive fan base in the foreseeable future .

NAE NOOKIE
09-03-2014, 12:23 PM
What are the boards or clubs ambitions for Hibs?

Its a question that shouldnt have to be asked because it should be self evident. A football club board only has two aims .... to run the club well off the park and to have a winning team on it.

The people who run our club have done a decent job off the park, no doubt about it, our infrastructure is second to none and the envy of a lot of much bigger clubs.

But ... a football club board and owner should live and die by results on the park, that is a football clubs reason for being and if it isnt the priority then these people arnt doing their job. If a professional club only sees staying in business as the end game, then it may as well turn amatuer so that the fans who agree with this outlook can go and watch it play in the amatuer leagues.

A professional club ... especially a club which is one of the biggest in its league ... should measure success or failure by what it does on the park. In that side of the things the people who run HFC have been a miserable failure .. especially in the last 7 years.

If you want to look at it from a business angle then surely bums on seats is something the business folk at ER can identify with .... year on year since 2007 our crowds have dropped. Not in the last two years I know ... but disaster has only been averted by fans renewing or buying STs in order to guarantee cup final tickets. What is going to happen next season?

I have said before ... the folk who run Hibs seem to be out of ideas .... I can see no future or improvement unless one of three things happen.

We find a way to improve the wages we pay in order to attract better quality players.
We manage to find a white knight who can pump money into the club.
We get lucky.

Phil D. Rolls
09-03-2014, 12:24 PM
I wasn't there, although I should have been :wink:, but I don't recall season books and cameras being mentioned.

You may be getting confused as I think the meeting was in camera?

If they keep having meetings in inaccessible places like Camera it's no wonder the fans aren't being listened to.

Onion
09-03-2014, 12:34 PM
Where do you expect them to find this money? Are there really people that think Rod is sitting on a wee treasure chest but doesn't want to spend it?

12158

It's amazing what a Board can and will do when put under pressure and there is nothing more effective than the realisation that customers are voting with their feet. Recall the last time Rod was under intense pressure at the end of the transfer window ? Lo and behold, he somehow finds money to fund Riordan's signing.

This Board needs to be imaginative and effective at deploying available resources - that's all. Maybe they could assume they won't have to pay off this current management team in the coming season ? That would be refreshing and free up some money. Maybe they could pre-fund some players, knowing that TB will get shot of some of the current duds later in the window ? Maybe they'll take the view that if they invest X early on to support TB's vision/ambitions, they might actually get Y extra season ticket sales ?

Or they could just pretend all is honky dory, ignore TB, and sift through the dregs at the end of the window as per usual. Hmmm.

--------
09-03-2014, 01:13 PM
Quite relevant in my view perhaps just not yours.

However before I part with another £400 in blind faith again I would like us to sign players early and show intent.

Why can't we attract investment?

Why do good players at other clubs come to hibs and become hopeless ie our captain.

Part of the other thing making me consider picking my games is the total inept officials we have in Scotland although that is something out with our boards remit!!!

My understanding is that Farmer actively discourages investment. An new investor would have to prove he was a "fit person" before he would be entertained. There MAY have been a few inquiries in the past, but if there were, none of them measured up to Farmer's high standards.

Except Rod. :rolleyes:



From the outside it would seem to be STABLE.

Live within our means and if we get lucky with a cup run or league run every so often then great.

The 5 year plan is often mentioned but no one (including the board) actually know what it is and when it started...:rolleyes:

I also get the feeling if the yams are struggling then the board get more leeway - as long as we are't as bad as them fans often put up with it.

The reality is we are in a time of opportunity to push on from the yams and sevco and basically do what Aberdeen have done this season - it's possible the board / manager just need to get it right with who they bring in.

The board are on their final life with TB - if this appointment doesn't work then they MUST go. I do hope it works out though as the fans deserve better :agree:


STABLE, aye. That baby mammoth they found frozen in the Siberian ice a few years back was STABLE, but it wasn't going anywhere.

DYNAMIC would be a better word, if it was applicable. But it isn't.

Nor is BUOYANT.

The truth as I see it is that the club's been going round in ever-decreasing circles since Mowbray's time and if this goes on much longer Hibs will suffer the painful and tragic fate of the Oozlum Bird and disappear. Possibly for good.

You're right - the Yams' tribulations have led a lot of us to assume that as long as Hibs are in a better state than Hearts, the board's doing OK. Hibs fans have out up with far too much, and sadly when we DO lose patience we tend to lose patience with the wrong people - we launch out at the manager, coaches, players, instead of the people who mould the club and whose policies and attitudes decide the corporate ethos of the club - Farmer, Petrie and the board.

Why did Tony Mowbray leave? Is it possible that he had sussed that there wasn't going to be any backing for rebuilding when Brown, Thomson, Murphy etc left for bigger clubs? Collins was clear about it - a lack of ambition on the part of the board. There's no point in providing a top-notch training ground if the only players training on it are the players no one else wants. And as far as I can see, that's been the pattern ever since.

Hibs have been in a decline since Mowbray's time. Petrie, under Farmer's eye, has presided over this decline. It's all very well saying that if Butcher doesn't succeed, the board must go.

They DON'T go. They WON'T go. They (and the White Knight) think everything's just grand.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 03:23 PM
My understanding is that Farmer actively discourages investment. An new investor would have to prove he was a "fit person" before he would be entertained. There MAY have been a few inquiries in the past, but if there were, none of them measured up to Farmer's high standards.

Except Rod. :rolleyes:





STABLE, aye. That baby mammoth they found frozen in the Siberian ice a few years back was STABLE, but it wasn't going anywhere.

DYNAMIC would be a better word, if it was applicable. But it isn't.

Nor is BUOYANT.

The truth as I see it is that the club's been going round in ever-decreasing circles since Mowbray's time and if this goes on much longer Hibs will suffer the painful and tragic fate of the Oozlum Bird and disappear. Possibly for good.

You're right - the Yams' tribulations have led a lot of us to assume that as long as Hibs are in a better state than Hearts, the board's doing OK. Hibs fans have out up with far too much, and sadly when we DO lose patience we tend to lose patience with the wrong people - we launch out at the manager, coaches, players, instead of the people who mould the club and whose policies and attitudes decide the corporate ethos of the club - Farmer, Petrie and the board.

Why did Tony Mowbray leave? Is it possible that he had sussed that there wasn't going to be any backing for rebuilding when Brown, Thomson, Murphy etc left for bigger clubs? Collins was clear about it - a lack of ambition on the part of the board. There's no point in providing a top-notch training ground if the only players training on it are the players no one else wants. And as far as I can see, that's been the pattern ever since.

Hibs have been in a decline since Mowbray's time. Petrie, under Farmer's eye, has presided over this decline. It's all very well saying that if Butcher doesn't succeed, the board must go.

They DON'T go. They WON'T go. They (and the White Knight) think everything's just grand.

When opportunity called Mowbray answered at the second ring. It was never going to be his forever job and he needed to move whilst his stock was high like most managers IMO. Nothing unusual in that.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 03:31 PM
I pondered a while ago why the 20k seater stadium - what's the end game you don't just have that for SP(F)L and the odd Scotland fixture/Elton gig.

Iirc Jack suggested it maybe a British League - once the boys at Europes top table eff off but will be some time off. Something along those lines is my uneducated guess.

If the club were to be handed over to fans at some stage your imagine it'd be better to had over from a position relatively I encumbered by debt. So keeping liabilities and debt low could facilitate a quicker/smoother transition. Again just a guess.

Pete
09-03-2014, 03:35 PM
Is this a re-hash of some earlier thread missed de ja vu or ground hog day? Maybe we just create a weekly thread?

Weekly threads? I hope not. Keeping it all in the one place is a good idea and would make the rest of the board a bit more bearable.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 04:44 PM
Weekly threads? I hope not. Keeping it all in the one place is a good idea and would make the rest of the board a bit more bearable.

Sorry came out wrong but that's what I meant.

schinkenotto
09-03-2014, 04:57 PM
I would agree - it's true that you can find some very good players in the lower leagues and sign them up relatively easily - much the same way as you can find some very good bargains in charity shops. But it isn't good sense to buy absolutely EVERYTHING out of charity shops and Poundstretcher, and Aldi may be low-priced, but they don't always have what I want at the time I want it, which is why most folks still go to the mainstream supermarkets for their groceries.

The truth is, even tyres AREN'T all exactly the same, and for my own car I'd rather take it (for anything) to a guy who really knows what he's doing than to Kwik-Fit or any other chain where the most the guy knows is how to fit a new part, not how to do a proper repair.

It's amazing what one or two quality players can do to transform a team. Alex Edwards and Alan Gordon were the finishing touches to the Tornadoes; the replacement of Paul Wright with Keith Wright in 1991; Latapy and Sauzee coming to us in 1999 totally transformed the way the team played.

These were great players, and I'm not suggesting that we're going to see their likes at ER again soon (maybe never!), but the principle still remains valid.

The fact is that there are players playing for Hibs today whom many netters would find hard to recognise if they met them on the street. There's been a grey sameness about the squad for far too long, and even when we do find a gem like Griffiths, we let him slip through our fingers far too easily. How many of us are REALLY CONVINCED that the board made a SERIOUS effort to sign him when the opportunity was there? When he was getting himself in trouble with the fans and on Twitter and so on and he seemed to be more trouble than he was worth? When a reasonably serious offer MIGHT JUST have persuaded Wolves to part with him? We're told an offer was made, but how serious was it? And how hard did the board push it?

Too much same old, same old, Mr Petrie. Football isn't about penny-plain tradesmen who'll "do a job for the club". How I HATE that expression - do a job? Football isn't a job, it's an art-form.

I don't want Rushton & Co, Builders and Decorators, I want Rembrandt, Monet, Cezanne. I don't want X-Factor, I want Pavarotti, Maria Callas, the New York Met and all the trimmings. I may DRIVE a Skoda, but in my heart I crave a Ferrari.

So either get it sorted, Messrs F&P, or get lost and let someone else have a go.

Excellent post in most respects-totally agree re Mr Petrie-but(having been directly professionally involved in the Mercer "takeover" saga) feel that the denigration of STF is totally unjustified and dangerous.Having been a Season Ticket holder since 1960,I miss the glorious "ups" and even the "downs" which we have had over the years, as opposed to than the horrendous rubbish we have had to endure since the departure of John Collins.

STF has public spiritedly,with a deep feeling for the Leith Community,provided a platform for Hibs to flourish and what is required is a Board with an understanding and knowledge of football and more particularly of the history and traditions of Hibs ,which I understand from reliable sources, is sadly lacking on the present Board(not excluding any present member).

jdships
09-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Quote by DODDIE
" My understanding is that Farmer actively discourages investment. An new investor would have to prove he was a "fit person" before he would be entertained. There MAY have been a few inquiries in the past, but if there were, none of them measured up to Farmer's high standards."

So you would be happy if some Sheik Ali Ben Useless guy came along with Billions of pounds/euro's/dollars to buy what he would simply look on as a play thing
If you want proof of that happening just go and do some research thro' the English Leagues right down to Div 2 !!
We have just witnessed that happening across the City and look what happened there !!
Same story unfolding at " Hunbrox "
Remember " [B]BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR "[/

I am with STF all the way here in regard to selling to a " fit person " and would think that any one who has followed Hibs for a number of years would agree . Many of us go back to worse days than this !!

B]

:flag:

RIP
09-03-2014, 05:29 PM
It's not about investment. That's just spending money we do not have.

We have more resources than every club out with the old firm. Yet smaller clubs with better management are outperforming us.

We should not focus on the owner or the first-team coach. We have had 6 coaching teams and over 70 players in the past 7 seasons. That's not a plan or strategy for success.

That's just rank bad leadership.

The Modfather
09-03-2014, 07:07 PM
Quote by DODDIE
" My understanding is that Farmer actively discourages investment. An new investor would have to prove he was a "fit person" before he would be entertained. There MAY have been a few inquiries in the past, but if there were, none of them measured up to Farmer's high standards."

So you would be happy if some Sheik Ali Ben Useless guy came along with Billions of pounds/euro's/dollars to buy what he would simply look on as a play thing
If you want proof of that happening just go and do some research thro' the English Leagues right down to Div 2 !!
We have just witnessed that happening across the City and look what happened there !!
Same story unfolding at " Hunbrox "
Remember " [B]BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR "[/

I am with STF all the way here in regard to selling to a " fit person " and would think that any one who has followed Hibs for a number of years would agree . Many of us go back to worse days than this !!

B]

:flag:

You can also look at how far Swansea have come in the last 10 years. From the brink to a trophy and Europe. All without a sheikh pumping silly money in. Yes there is a lot of money in the Premiership, but it's all relative given 19 other clubs have that same benefit.

Rather than mysterious 5 year plans that may or may not exist, and if they do they have spectacularly failed the last 5 years. Swansea have a plan that was clearly set out, achieved, and now have an identifiable brand and identity.

Maybe Petrie should take a pen and notepad on a flight to Swansea and find out what a successful plan and club ethos looks like.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-03-2014, 07:26 PM
Excellent post in most respects-totally agree re Mr Petrie-but(having been directly professionally involved in the Mercer "takeover" saga) feel that the denigration of STF is totally unjustified and dangerous.Having been a Season Ticket holder since 1960,I miss the glorious "ups" and even the "downs" which we have had over the years, as opposed to than the horrendous rubbish we have had to endure since the departure of John Collins.

STF has public spiritedly,with a deep feeling for the Leith Community,provided a platform for Hibs to flourish and what is required is a Board with an understanding and knowledge of football and more particularly of the history and traditions of Hibs ,which I understand from reliable sources, is sadly lacking on the present Board(not excluding any present member).

Cant say that's been my experience from what I've seen from management - albeit some are non-execs. Those That I and others at LWT have met are extended (in many cases) time-served Hibbies who do understand the club and football and whilst any initiative of this nature will not be without flaws, one of the positives of LWT has been repeated across the participants has been the passion and knowledge of Hibs shining through from the management participants. And any Hibee that can make the meetings can judge for themselves.

The Falcon
09-03-2014, 07:36 PM
With making Hibs a success on the field, and profitable off it, apparently so easy to do I am surprised someone has not stepped forward to make it happen, earning themselves a fortune whilst doing so.

stevejordan
09-03-2014, 09:48 PM
You can also look at how far Swansea have come in the last 10 years. From the brink to a trophy and Europe. All without a sheikh pumping silly money in. Yes there is a lot of money in the Premiership, but it's all relative given 19 other clubs have that same benefit.

Rather than the mysterious 5 year plans that may or may not exist, and if they do they have spectacularly failed the last 5 years. Swansea have a plan that was clearly set out, achieved, and now have an identifiable brand and identity.

Maybe Petrie should take a pen and notepad on a flight to Swansea and find out what a successful plan and club ethos looks like.

This 5 year plan seems like an answer to any serious questions we as supporters have we ask a question and the answer is " dont worry we have a 5 year plan " can someone please tell us the 5 year plan ? and when exactly this plan started and is due to finish.
The majority of our current players were Paddys who took 2 years to put together Paddy was a very nice man and these players would probably have responded better to Paddy than Terry recent results are worse than Paddys shortly before he walked.
Terry has to start again from scratch Groundhog Day all over again bottom six yet again no improvement but the balance sheet looks good.
Terry needs support cash to improve the squad which in turn improves results and crowds and results and cash flow Mr Petrie.

--------
09-03-2014, 11:39 PM
Quote by DODDIE
" My understanding is that Farmer actively discourages investment. An new investor would have to prove he was a "fit person" before he would be entertained. There MAY have been a few inquiries in the past, but if there were, none of them measured up to Farmer's high standards."

So you would be happy if some Sheik Ali Ben Useless guy came along with Billions of pounds/euro's/dollars to buy what he would simply look on as a play thing
If you want proof of that happening just go and do some research thro' the English Leagues right down to Div 2 !!
We have just witnessed that happening across the City and look what happened there !!
Same story unfolding at " Hunbrox "
Remember " [B]BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR "[/

I am with STF all the way here in regard to selling to a " fit person " and would think that any one who has followed Hibs for a number of years would agree . Many of us go back to worse days than this !!

B]

:flag:


Be careful what I wish for?

Well, I go back as far as Hibs selling Joe Baker to Torino after he asked for an extra £5 in his wages - that's a 40-goals-a-season striker I'm talking about, and there have been plenty of grey days since then.

But not every possible investor's a Romanov, and not all investment is silly speculation leading to disaster.

Right now we're going precisely NOWHERE. And we've been 7 years on the journey. Seven years ago this month we won the League Cup in style. Right now I wouldn't back Hibs to win against any team in the Premiership or the Championship.

Since we won the League Cup in 2007 no Hibs manager has stayed even two seasons; we've seen players shuttling in and out of the club in droves; performances on the pitch have deteriorated season by season; and any talent we HAVE unearthed hasn't stayed around any longer than the manager who signed him.

I was grateful to Farmer when he rescued us 25 years ago, and I would admit that there have been good seasons here and there.

But if you're trying to tell me that the club has made any real progress on the field since Rod Petrie was put in by Farmer then I'm here to tell you I think you're way off base. Terry Butcher took the job on November 5th, just over 4 months ago. Already there are people on this forum carping and criticising everything he does. A manager at ER gets about 8 weeks before the "supporters" start to get on his back. Eight or nine months, and they're calling for his head.

But Farmer's had TWENTY-FIVE YEARS to get it right, and Petrie NINE and a half. And any time someone asks questions about where we're going under their "leadership", or suggests that perhaps there might be someone out there who could contribute positively to the health and direction of the club, we get the same old response - be careful what you Wish for, look at what Romanov did to Hearts, at least the club's solvent and stable.

And when anyone suggests that perhaps the board could be investing more adventurously in the team (which is surely the be-all and end-all of the football club, after all) they're accused of advocating speculation beyond our means with a view to destroying the club.

Farmer said he had bought Hibs to preserve the club for the fans. I thought he might have meant that he was going to run it as a going concern, a proper football club where results mattered.

What he seems to have meant is "preserve" in the sense that an undertaker preserves a corpse - all the superficial appearance of life, but nothing of any value or significance remaining.

Under present ownership and directorship Hibs are going nowhere. And I for one have lost patience with the White Knight and his faithful Sancho Panza. There's something really rotten in the state of my football club, and it's been there and stinking for quite a while now. And responsibility doesn't rest with the manager and players - it rests with the guy who runs the club and the man who placed him there.

blackpoolhibs
09-03-2014, 11:56 PM
Be careful what I wish for?

Well, I go back as far as Hibs selling Joe Baker to Torino after he asked for an extra £5 in his wages - that's a 40-goals-a-season striker I'm talking about, and there have been plenty of grey days since then.

But not every possible investor's a Romanov, and not all investment is silly speculation leading to disaster.

Right now we're going precisely NOWHERE. And we've been 7 years on the journey. Seven years ago this month we won the League Cup in style. Right now I wouldn't back Hibs to win against any team in the Premiership or the Championship.

Since we won the League Cup in 2007 no Hibs manager has stayed even two seasons; we've seen players shuttling in and out of the club in droves; performances on the pitch have deteriorated season by season; and any talent we HAVE unearthed hasn't stayed around any longer than the manager who signed him.

I was grateful to Farmer when he rescued us 25 years ago, and I would admit that there have been good seasons here and there.

But if you're trying to tell me that the club has made any real progress on the field since Rod Petrie was put in by Farmer then I'm here to tell you I think you're way off base. Terry Butcher took the job on November 5th, just over 4 months ago. Already there are people on this forum carping and criticising everything he does. A manager at ER gets about 8 weeks before the "supporters" start to get on his back. Eight or nine months, and they're calling for his head.

But Farmer's had TWENTY-FIVE YEARS to get it right, and Petrie NINE and a half. And any time someone asks questions about where we're going under their "leadership", or suggests that perhaps there might be someone out there who could contribute positively to the health and direction of the club, we get the same old response - be careful what you Wish for, look at what Romanov did to Hearts, at least the club's solvent and stable.

And when anyone suggests that perhaps the board could be investing more adventurously in the team (which is surely the be-all and end-all of the football club, after all) they're accused of advocating speculation beyond our means with a view to destroying the club.

Farmer said he had bought Hibs to preserve the club for the fans. I thought he might have meant that he was going to run it as a going concern, a proper football club where results mattered.

What he seems to have meant is "preserve" in the sense that an undertaker preserves a corpse - all the superficial appearance of life, but nothing of any value or significance remaining.

Under present ownership and directorship Hibs are going nowhere. And I for one have lost patience with the White Knight and his faithful Sancho Panza. There's something really rotten in the state of my football club, and it's been there and stinking for quite a while now. And responsibility doesn't rest with the manager and players - it rests with the guy who runs the club and the man who placed him there.

:top marks

ehf
10-03-2014, 12:05 AM
Top scorer he may be but have u watched him recently

:agree:

At fault for Well's equaliser yesterday; could not be arsed to put in a challenge at the edge of the box.

Ronniekirk
10-03-2014, 08:16 AM
:agree:

At fault for Well's equaliser yesterday; could not be arsed to put in a challenge at the edge of the box.
Yes he isn't playing at his best ,but there were several players at fault not just him.The reason T B is saying they will practice how to defend throws in s is handling was in no mans land between thrower and player he was throwing it to ,so that created space in first place and he got by three players before the goalmouth stramash when it was ping ponging about . he shouldn't be Captain as he doesn't strike you as Authoritative Figure and don't think he is a leader as often see him shouting at ref as if taking frustration out on him His passing at times is wayward but if not playing in his best position then puts extra pressure on him.it was noticeable after one poor pass or free kick he was first player to get booed.Have no problem with that at half or full time but really think we do our selfs no favours doing that during games as apart from an instant venting of displeasure for individual fans at time it must potentially affect a players confidence if they are going through difficult spell.

Ronniekirk
10-03-2014, 08:43 AM
It's not about investment. That's just spending money we do not have.

We have more resources than every club out with the old firm. Yet smaller clubs with better management are outperforming us.

We should not focus on the owner or the first-team coach. We gave had 6 coaching teams and over 70 players in the past 7 seasons. That's not a plan or strategy for success.

That's just rank bad leadership.

Petrie has acknowledged he has made mistakes along the way ,and think that's why they splashed out on current management Team .As appointing these assistants like Nichols and Adams was trying to rectify previous mistakes and all it did was compound them Petrie knows if this Team doesn't work out he will be more in the spotlight as fans have made that clear.The problem now is that we are not making profits year on year because of the above ,which has affected performance on the pitch and driven down crowds.Any extra money we have goes on paying managers and players off from the mistakes of previous director and managers decisions . Then the new manager has to move players on and scrape around for replacements with no scouting system in place and with some of these managers poor contacts ,so quality of players coming in has often been poor or they haven't been brought in to fit in to a system and played out of position as we have never been able to source a decent natural full back for eg for years..
T B has made it clear he will aim to replicate what he did at Inverness .That can't be done in one summer transfer window.It will be a start and hopefully a good one that takes us into top four.However it will be in subsequent windows when he then knows which players are playing well in his system and which need replaced that we will see his forward planning in action and we should then have more continuity and basis of good team . he didn't have lots of money to spend at Inverness so agree money isn't everything .Its having right team in place who can identify right players ,persuade them to come to a team that's under performed for 7 years on basis they are turning things round now,and then coaching them to play in the system and play football the way they want it played . So we should see big improvements year on year.

greenpaper55
10-03-2014, 10:05 AM
Be careful what I wish for?

Well, I go back as far as Hibs selling Joe Baker to Torino after he asked for an extra £5 in his wages - that's a 40-goals-a-season striker I'm talking about, and there have been plenty of grey days since then.

But not every possible investor's a Romanov, and not all investment is silly speculation leading to disaster.

Right now we're going precisely NOWHERE. And we've been 7 years on the journey. Seven years ago this month we won the League Cup in style. Right now I wouldn't back Hibs to win against any team in the Premiership or the Championship.

Since we won the League Cup in 2007 no Hibs manager has stayed even two seasons; we've seen players shuttling in and out of the club in droves; performances on the pitch have deteriorated season by season; and any talent we HAVE unearthed hasn't stayed around any longer than the manager who signed him.

I was grateful to Farmer when he rescued us 25 years ago, and I would admit that there have been good seasons here and there.

But if you're trying to tell me that the club has made any real progress on the field since Rod Petrie was put in by Farmer then I'm here to tell you I think you're way off base. Terry Butcher took the job on November 5th, just over 4 months ago. Already there are people on this forum carping and criticising everything he does. A manager at ER gets about 8 weeks before the "supporters" start to get on his back. Eight or nine months, and they're calling for his head.

But Farmer's had TWENTY-FIVE YEARS to get it right, and Petrie NINE and a half. And any time someone asks questions about where we're going under their "leadership", or suggests that perhaps there might be someone out there who could contribute positively to the health and direction of the club, we get the same old response - be careful what you Wish for, look at what Romanov did to Hearts, at least the club's solvent and stable.

And when anyone suggests that perhaps the board could be investing more adventurously in the team (which is surely the be-all and end-all of the football club, after all) they're accused of advocating speculation beyond our means with a view to destroying the club.

Farmer said he had bought Hibs to preserve the club for the fans. I thought he might have meant that he was going to run it as a going concern, a proper football club where results mattered.

What he seems to have meant is "preserve" in the sense that an undertaker preserves a corpse - all the superficial appearance of life, but nothing of any value or significance remaining.

Under present ownership and directorship Hibs are going nowhere. And I for one have lost patience with the White Knight and his faithful Sancho Panza. There's something really rotten in the state of my football club, and it's been there and stinking for quite a while now. And responsibility doesn't rest with the manager and players - it rests with the guy who runs the club and the man who placed him there.

:top marksI think we all agree on the debt we owe sir Tom for saving Hibs but for what ?, there is no doubt in my mind the club will survive in it's present state for as far as i can see but is that the b all and end all of it at ER ?, i don't know if there is anything rotten at the core or if it's just the fact that we are run by people who have no real interest in football.
I would think TF is quite happy for Rod to run the club on a day to day basis and will never "kick ass"when results are poor as he to busy selling tyres and doing his charity stuff to bother with the club. We also know where Rod stands in the grand scheme of things as TF has already said he wishes he could have a hundred RP's working for him so we must assume that in TF's eyes as a club we are doing ok !.
Rod has day to day running of Hibs but i don't se him as another who would "kick ass" if results were poor, indeed with every manager he has had to sack or who has left he has defended their record and coming out with stats to back up his selection of that manager even Calderwood and Fenlon got that treatement !. This makes me wonder if he even sees or knows that we are playing some of the worst football in our history and he should run his statistics over our recent home record if he would rather believe that.
Now East Mains, One of the countries best football training grounds but since it's use we have performed so badly that you must think that there is a link between moving there and the results. Why we needed to move the training to another county is beyond me, there is no connection between EM and the fans and the community, the players are never at ER until the day of the game and it looks like we are the away team for lots of the time. What could have been a great resource for the community if it had been built nearer the city is just a white elephant that is used during the day and brings Hibs in not a red cent at any other time, Rod should take a look at Spartans at how money is used wisely with club and community benefitting from both. Sadly i don't see anything changing in the near future, it will be the same as for many years to come unless those at the top move on.

Gerard
10-03-2014, 11:01 AM
I wonder how many transitional seasons await for us? Hibs must do a lot better to encourage fans to buy STs or walk up tickets. This season should have been so much better:wink: In time Mr RM Petrie could be President of the governing body. If that happens the club will need a full time CEO:wink:

jacomo
10-03-2014, 11:22 AM
You can also look at how far Swansea have come in the last 10 years. From the brink to a trophy and Europe. All without a sheikh pumping silly money in. Yes there is a lot of money in the Premiership, but it's all relative given 19 other clubs have that same benefit.

Rather than mysterious 5 year plans that may or may not exist, and if they do they have spectacularly failed the last 5 years. Swansea have a plan that was clearly set out, achieved, and now have an identifiable brand and identity.

Maybe Petrie should take a pen and notepad on a flight to Swansea and find out what a successful plan and club ethos looks like.

Swansea Council built the club a new stadium. That must have helped...

jacomo
10-03-2014, 11:25 AM
There's something really rotten in the state of my football club, and it's been there and stinking for quite a while now. And responsibility doesn't rest with the manager and players - it rests with the guy who runs the club and the man who placed him there.

It's hard to argue with this. Hibs have ploughed through plenty of managers and countless players without any strong sense of direction. That can't be right.

I'm glad Petrie has learned his lessons but talk like that is cheap... like politicians acknowledging that "mistakes were made" long after those mistakes can harm their career.

I think we need new leadership at the top, and a genuine vision for the club.

Beefster
10-03-2014, 11:26 AM
If that happens the club will need a full time CEO:wink:

The club needs a full-time CEO now and has done for two years.

HUTCHYHIBBY
10-03-2014, 11:33 AM
There seems to be a growing sense of disillusion among fans in my age group, most of the guys that I was going to games with in my 20s/30s very rarely attend these days, is that just in my circle of pals or is it a more general thing.

--------
10-03-2014, 12:09 PM
It's hard to argue with this. Hibs have ploughed through plenty of managers and countless players without any strong sense of direction. That can't be right.

I'm glad Petrie has learned his lessons but talk like that is cheap... like politicians acknowledging that "mistakes were made" long after those mistakes can harm their career.

I think we need new leadership at the top, and a genuine vision for the club.


I honestly don't think he HAS learned anything. I can see the same stuff beginning to happen now around Butcher as happened around all the others who've gone before.

You're right - we need someone in charge who has a genuine vision for the club that goes beyond neatly audited account-books and not upsetting Sir Tom - a vision that involves the football team.

Because as of now I don't think either Farmer or Petrie see anything wrong with the team. Farmer's like the Grand Old Duke of York - he marches us up to the top of the hill (only we never actually get there - it's only promises conveyed to us through his Mouthpiece Petrie), then marches us down again. And each time we march down, we get a little lower, into a little worse state, but heaven help anyone who criticises - he saved our club.

Well now he's letting it die by inches.

WHUHibs
10-03-2014, 12:54 PM
The club needs a full-time CEO now and has done for two years.

Unfortunately Rod does not want a CEO from my last discussion with hibs. In addition to this and it's not secret he has many other business interests.

The week before Fenlons departure I had 2 influential people with me who said they are looking to invest in football(England) and after the game which we lost they said no one would put money into a club like Hibs. Without knowing the details they suggested the infrastructure and investment required to put an under performing club to the top would be significant. Added to this unless you were a Hibs fan that the return on that investment would not be attractive for an investor. The business model for profit would be based on rearing players for sales and reinvestment in the club and they think that the risk associated with this will be unattractive. Of course additional income can be raised depending on performance but historically Hibs are too much of a club which shows no stability in management, player retention( I.e loan signings and journey men) and very little silver wear....so I think it will be difficult.

The only option I see is an investor with a Hibs background, supported by local business people. If you add that to a possible fan ownership model and a forward thinking CEO to drive additional revenue streams nothing will change...

As Doddie said what do we wish for,,,,,,something better perhaps before it's too late...

--------
10-03-2014, 04:18 PM
Unfortunately Rod does not want a CEO from my last discussion with hibs. In addition to this and it's not secret he has many other business interests.

The week before Fenlons departure I had 2 influential people with me who said they are looking to invest in football(England) and after the game which we lost they said no one would put money into a club like Hibs. Without knowing the details they suggested the infrastructure and investment required to put an under performing club to the top would be significant. Added to this unless you were a Hibs fan that the return on that investment would not be attractive for an investor. The business model for profit would be based on rearing players for sales and reinvestment in the club and they think that the risk associated with this will be unattractive. Of course additional income can be raised depending on performance but historically Hibs are too much of a club which shows no stability in management, player retention( I.e loan signings and journey men) and very little silver wear....so I think it will be difficult.

The only option I see is an investor with a Hibs background, supported by local business people. If you add that to a possible fan ownership model and a forward thinking CEO to drive additional revenue streams nothing will change...

As Doddie said what do we wish for,,,,,,something better perhaps before it's too late...


Beginning to feel a bit like five minutes to midnight to me.

I think the Grinch has stolen my football team.

stevejordan
10-03-2014, 04:33 PM
I honestly don't think he HAS learned anything. I can see the same stuff beginning to happen now around Butcher as happened around all the others who've gone before.

You're right - we need someone in charge who has a genuine vision for the club that goes beyond neatly audited account-books and not upsetting Sir Tom - a vision that involves the football team.

Because as of now I don't think either Farmer or Petrie see anything wrong with the team. Farmer's like the Grand Old Duke of York - he marches us up to the top of the hill (only we never actually get there - it's only promises conveyed to us through his Mouthpiece Petrie), then marches us down again. And each time we march down, we get a little lower, into a little worse state, but heaven help anyone who criticises - he saved our club.

Well now he's letting it die by inches.

Sadly since John Collins walked it has been downhill all the way Paddy did lift us with 2 cup finals and Europe Quallification but that apart its been not good Paddy was a nice man and it was sad that he had to eventually resign i honestly thought with Terry we were onto a winner but like so many decent players and Managers who come in for some bizare reason they seem to deteriorate and end up useless get moved on and all of a sudden they look good again.

Does someone have a reason an answer even an idea as to why this happens our current Captain is the perfect example of what i mean and no i do not blame Petrie he has nothing to do with the playing or management of the team.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-03-2014, 04:43 PM
Sadly since John Collins walked it has been downhill all the way Paddy did lift us with 2 cup finals and Europe Quallification but that apart its been not good Paddy was a nice man and it was sad that he had to eventually resign i honestly thought with Terry we were onto a winner but like so many decent players and Managers who come in for some bizare reason they seem to deteriorate and end up useless get moved on and all of a sudden they look good again.

Does someone have a reason an answer even an idea as to why this happens our current Captain is the perfect example of what i mean and no i do not blame Petrie he has nothing to do with the playing or management of the team.

The reason Craig isn't playing well under a Butcher is because he is playing the holding midfield role, which doesn't suit his stlye of play at all. It's so Sam can get forward and attack. Craig needs to be playing in an attackig role, either the same as Sam or left mid. If not, expect his performances to stay as they are or, possibly get even worse.

jgl07
10-03-2014, 06:20 PM
I am with STF all the way here in regard to selling to a " fit person " and would think that any one who has followed Hibs for a number of years would agree.

Indeed. I recall that there was outrage in certain quarters when Brian Kennedy was knocked back by Farmer in the 1990s.

It was evident that his main interest was in Rugby. Had he taken over I venture that Hibs would now be renting (or homeless) while Easter Road would be hosting (and owned by) an Edinburgh Rugby Union team. That happened to Stockport County who have dropped from the second tier of English Football to the sixth tier (Conference North) in the last twelve years (much of it under Kennedy's ownership).

Nobody will 'invest' in Scottish Football with the possible exception of Celtic. Anyone who claims to be doing so is either a fool or a liar (apart from Vlad who was both).

Ronniekirk
10-03-2014, 07:31 PM
There seems to be a growing sense of disillusion among fans in my age group, most of the guys that I was going to games with in my 20s/30s very rarely attend these days, is that just in my circle of pals or is it a more general thing.

I am 57 and still meet up with friends I went with when I was 14 /15 from fife .But at different points we have all had periods where we couldnt go regularly but always made sure we went to a few games a season .but when at uni and skint and jobs take you further afield and then you get married and have young kids and can't afford it .Also when rank rotten the non diehards disappear but come back for big games . I remember we took five double deckers some smaller buses from fife to the skol cup final and now it's down to individuals brining cars. Others have given up going but still look for results,and some have lost interest as they gain other interests that take up there time .
I personally couldn't see me never going back but everyone changes over time and personal circumstances change .

Leeson
13-03-2014, 08:03 PM
With the results last night, St Johnstone are obviously favourites now to finish ahead of Hibs for the last place in the top six. Why can a much smaller club not manage that not just this season but now for maybe 4 seasons running? Obviously you will get the odd freak season but nearly half a decade? Surely that is not acceptable?

Related, why do Hibs sign one of their best players and he is moving towards being a fringe player at ER? Why can Craig play so well for them but not Hibs?

Ronniekirk
13-03-2014, 08:18 PM
With the results last night, St Johnstone are obviously favourites now to finish ahead of Hibs for the last place in the top six. Why can a much smaller club not manage that not just this season but now for maybe 4 seasons running? Obviously you will get the odd freak season but nearly half a decade? Surely that is not acceptable?

Related, why do Hibs sign one of their best players and he is moving towards being a fringe player at ER? Why can Craig play so well for them but not Hibs?
In a nutshell the Managers they have appointed have been the right appointments and the new one coming in hasn't had to clear out a load of players as there has been the nucleus of a good team already there ..the fact there managers have then been headhunted and gone on to bigger clubs is testament to the job they did.St Johnstone got compensation for them leaving .We appointed poor managers and had to pay to get rid of them and each manager then had to pay off some players and off load others and bring in short tem players on loans who were not good enough and the cycle wheat on so crowds went down as did income ...
Don't know the board set up there but brown has has been there years so obviously knows what he is doing . .

stevejordan
13-03-2014, 08:57 PM
In a nutshell the Managers they have appointed have been the right appointments and the new one coming in hasn't had to clear out a load of players as there has been the nucleus of a good team already there ..the fact there managers have then been headhunted and gone on to bigger clubs is testament to the job they did.St Johnstone got compensation for them leaving .We appointed poor managers and had to pay to get rid of them and each manager then had to pay off some players and off load others and bring in short tem players on loans who were not good enough and the cycle wheat on so crowds went down as did income ...
Don't know the board set up there but brown has has been there years so obviously knows what he is doing . .

Then we must look at who appoints all the failed managers we have had in the last 6 years good friends i know who have followed thick and thin over the last 6 years have fell by the wayside and have lost interest in our club i am talking about over 20 supporters that i know who used to go to away games as well as being season ticket book holders since Mowbray it has been downhill.

I Was looking at our results today and noted we have only won 1 game in last 10 games and looking like we will finish in the bottom six again we must improve next season re group and be positive the board need to back Terry with cash to sign new players.

We need exciting free flowing attacking football and a winning team this will get the fans to return in numbers.

ronaldo7
13-03-2014, 09:05 PM
Then we must look at who appoints all the failed managers we have had in the last 6 years good friends i know who have followed thick and thin over the last 6 years have fell by the wayside and have lost interest in our club i am talking about over 20 supporters that i know who used to go to away games as well as being season ticket book holders since Mowbray it has been downhill.

I Was looking at our results today and noted we have only won 1 game in last 10 games and looking like we will finish in the bottom six again we must improve next season re group and be positive the board need to back Terry with cash to sign new players.

We need exciting free flowing attacking football and a winning team this will get the fans to return in numbers.

Why don't we just look at what St Johnstone are doing. I believe they spend nearly all the cash on the first team squad leaving the laddies to scrimp and save to put a team on the park, and yet they are only 12 points behind us in the Under 20's League.

Are we spreading our cash over too many players??

Ronniekirk
13-03-2014, 09:15 PM
Then we must look at who appoints all the failed managers we have had in the last 6 years good friends i know who have followed thick and thin over the last 6 years have fell by the wayside and have lost interest in our club i am talking about over 20 supporters that i know who used to go to away games as well as being season ticket book holders since Mowbray it has been downhill.

I Was looking at our results today and noted we have only won 1 game in last 10 games and looking like we will finish in the bottom six again we must improve next season re group and be positive the board need to back Terry with cash to sign new players.

We need exciting free flowing attacking football and a winning team this will get the fans to return in numbers.
Don't disagree with what you say was only proffering an opinion on why st Johnstone have been relatively successfully but am sure there will be other factors .But whatever they are doing we are clearly not and but let's hope this is going to be the start of things getting better as everyone has stories of those they know that aren't going anymore and most folk agree things have got so bad you vacant blame them .I need my Hibs fix every now and again but it is getting harder to keep going back for more of the same But I enjoyed Motherwell game and despite being pissed off we couldn't eek out a one nil last night I will go to Partick game and maybe st Johnstone away but bottom six holds no attraction unless he is blooding exciting talent from under 20 s Team Hearts game will probably go to as won't be able to get a ticket for Tyncastle game But will look forward to watching who we bring in and the excitement will start for next Season

IWasThere2016
13-03-2014, 09:28 PM
Be careful what I wish for?

Well, I go back as far as Hibs selling Joe Baker to Torino after he asked for an extra £5 in his wages - that's a 40-goals-a-season striker I'm talking about, and there have been plenty of grey days since then.

But not every possible investor's a Romanov, and not all investment is silly speculation leading to disaster.

Right now we're going precisely NOWHERE. And we've been 7 years on the journey. Seven years ago this month we won the League Cup in style. Right now I wouldn't back Hibs to win against any team in the Premiership or the Championship.

Since we won the League Cup in 2007 no Hibs manager has stayed even two seasons; we've seen players shuttling in and out of the club in droves; performances on the pitch have deteriorated season by season; and any talent we HAVE unearthed hasn't stayed around any longer than the manager who signed him.

I was grateful to Farmer when he rescued us 25 years ago, and I would admit that there have been good seasons here and there.

But if you're trying to tell me that the club has made any real progress on the field since Rod Petrie was put in by Farmer then I'm here to tell you I think you're way off base. Terry Butcher took the job on November 5th, just over 4 months ago. Already there are people on this forum carping and criticising everything he does. A manager at ER gets about 8 weeks before the "supporters" start to get on his back. Eight or nine months, and they're calling for his head.

But Farmer's had TWENTY-FIVE YEARS to get it right, and Petrie NINE and a half. And any time someone asks questions about where we're going under their "leadership", or suggests that perhaps there might be someone out there who could contribute positively to the health and direction of the club, we get the same old response - be careful what you Wish for, look at what Romanov did to Hearts, at least the club's solvent and stable.

And when anyone suggests that perhaps the board could be investing more adventurously in the team (which is surely the be-all and end-all of the football club, after all) they're accused of advocating speculation beyond our means with a view to destroying the club.

Farmer said he had bought Hibs to preserve the club for the fans. I thought he might have meant that he was going to run it as a going concern, a proper football club where results mattered.

What he seems to have meant is "preserve" in the sense that an undertaker preserves a corpse - all the superficial appearance of life, but nothing of any value or significance remaining.

Under present ownership and directorship Hibs are going nowhere. And I for one have lost patience with the White Knight and his faithful Sancho Panza. There's something really rotten in the state of my football club, and it's been there and stinking for quite a while now. And responsibility doesn't rest with the manager and players - it rests with the guy who runs the club and the man who placed him there.

:top marks

RIP
13-03-2014, 10:06 PM
Why don't we just look at what St Johnstone are doing. I believe they spend nearly all the cash on the first team squad leaving the laddies to scrimp and save to put a team on the park, and yet they are only 12 points behind us in the Under 20's League.

Are we spreading our cash over too many players??

The guys who run Saints are successful businessmen who talk to supporters every day. Their salaries bill is low because as a community club they make liberal use of talented volunteers.

Population 40,000 or 7% the size of Edinburgh

--------
14-03-2014, 10:58 AM
The guys who run Saints are successful businessmen who talk to supporters every day. Their salaries bill is low because as a community club they make liberal use of talented volunteers.

Population 40,000 or 7% the size of Edinburgh


They also actually care whereabouts in the League St Johnstone are.

I don't think Farmer and Petrie KNOW where Hibs are in the League, far less care.

Once upon a time Hibs used to use the assistance of volunteers, too, IIRC - back in the days when I was a boy, a long, long, time ago.

When we had a team on the park.

Torto7062
14-03-2014, 09:06 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26583407 Now Killie are reducing their debt I think
Its time WE as a club have to take a gamble
Wages wise and players wise..seeing
As Aberdeen are on a flyer and Utd will be
up there next season with M/well It's now time to speculate to accumulate.

Thoughts

ronaldo7
14-03-2014, 09:09 PM
I thought he'd forgot to set his alarm clock.

LioNeilMessi
14-03-2014, 09:11 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26583407 Now Killie are reducing their debt I think
Its time WE as a club have to take a gamble
Wages wise and players wise..seeing
As Aberdeen are on a flyer and Utd will be
up there next season with M/well It's now time to speculate to accumulate.

Thoughts

Everything contained in your post is a hibs.net cliché.

Really we shouldn't have to up our wage budget to compete with United and Motherwell, we just have to sign better players.

lord bunberry
14-03-2014, 09:12 PM
It's not going to happen, we all know that so there's no point asking the same questions over and over again

Dalianwanda
14-03-2014, 09:14 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26583407 Now Killie are reducing their debt I think
Its time WE as a club have to take a gamble
Wages wise and players wise..seeing
As Aberdeen are on a flyer and Utd will be
up there next season with M/well It's now time to speculate to accumulate.

Thoughts

As in spend more money or putting faith in the manager to spend wisely and get the most from the team? Spending more doesn't guarantee anything getting the right manager to spend wisely and get the best from the players has more of a chance..

So no I think the managers have been given enough for the league we are in...Why get ourselves back into financial trouble were not exactly rolling in it at the moment...I trust TB to spend wisely and get max from what he has..

HUTCHYHIBBY
14-03-2014, 09:15 PM
Groundhog Day!

blackpoolhibs
14-03-2014, 09:19 PM
Groundhog Day!

Just spat my coffee all over the screen. :faf:

SaulGoodman
14-03-2014, 09:30 PM
Just spat my coffee all over the screen. :faf:

This.

Torto7062
14-03-2014, 09:45 PM
As in spend more money or putting faith in the manager to spend wisely and get the most from the team? Spending more doesn't guarantee anything getting the right manager to spend wisely and get the best from the players has more of a chance..

So no I think the managers have been given enough for the league we are in...Why get ourselves back into financial trouble were not exactly rolling in it at the moment...I trust TB to spend wisely and get max from what he has..


If TB is given the funds he asks for we
Should do ok, My post was leaning morw
to...if we are gonna win something while
the newco gers and peado 11 are in the
championship we have to push the boat
Out a bit more. Especially to catch the young fans
being turned away by the footballing
Product

Dalianwanda
15-03-2014, 08:01 AM
If TB is given the funds he asks for we
Should do ok, My post was leaning morw
to...if we are gonna win something while
the newco gers and peado 11 are in the
championship we have to push the boat
Out a bit more. Especially to catch the young fans
being turned away by the footballing
Product

If push the boat out means gives the manager as much funds as we are able to, within our means, then Im all for that..

Ronniekirk
15-03-2014, 08:13 AM
If push the boat out means gives the manager as much funds as we are able to, within our means, then Im all for that..
If we are going to push the boat out we need to watch we don't end up up **** Creek Without a Paddle

RIP
15-03-2014, 09:44 AM
We have the tools at our disposal to build a successful football club. Great stadium, fantastic training centre, successful youth academy, loyal supporters, community and charitable history, talented volunteers.

It's not about how many tools you have in your bag but having the skills and creativity to use them to build a finished product.

Eyrie
15-03-2014, 11:20 AM
We have the tools at our disposal to build a successful football club. Great stadium, fantastic training centre, successful youth academy, loyal supporters, community and charitable history, talented volunteers.

It's not about how many tools you have in your bag but having the skills and creativity to use them to build a finished product.

One of the problems is that we've had too many tools (Calderwood, Doherty et al). I have faith that in Butcher we've finally got the quality tradesman needed to make the most of what we have.

RIP
16-03-2014, 08:20 AM
One of the problems is that we've had too many tools (Calderwood, Doherty et al). I have faith that in Butcher we've finally got the quality tradesman needed to make the most of what we have.

A quality craftsman can only succeed if he works for a company dedicated to delivering a quality product. This involves a structured recruitment strategy, succession planning and a high performance culture.

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 08:41 AM
A quality craftsman can only succeed if he works for a company dedicated to delivering a quality product. This involves a structured recruitment strategy, succession planning and a high performance culture.

And is given the time to do the job.

Inverness were not an overnight success rather a long term project which only began to bear fruit after a number of years of hard work.

leggeto
16-03-2014, 08:49 AM
We have the tools at our disposal to build a successful football club. Great stadium, fantastic training centre, successful youth academy, loyal supporters, community and charitable history, talented volunteers.

It's not about how many tools you have in your bag but having the skills and creativity to use them to build a finished product.

nothing will change at Easter road while Petrie is in charge he is a money man and has done great balancing the books for years while other teams are falling around us,but we can't keep our good players,after a good season for any of our star men in the past they are gone the next,we need to keep them and build around them,Inverness,killie,saints,Dundee Utd have all managed to keep hold of their lads

Onion
16-03-2014, 09:14 AM
And is given the time to do the job.

Inverness were not an overnight success rather a long term project which only began to bear fruit after a number of years of hard work.

No problem with that, other than the torture we can expect during the transition seasons. Everyone - the fans, the manager, the players, the club - all know that Hibs are a piss poor side with below average players who need to be replaced. Butcher says that every week.

So why are we all expected to pay a premium price for a ST... for a work in progress ? This is akin to Adobe trying to charge you full price to Beta test their latest software, knowing it's full of bugs, will crash every now and then, and is not fit for purpose. Wake me up in 2016/7 :rolleyes:

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 10:11 AM
Some good analysis on here, and some "bloke in the pub" based evidence.

For example, saying St. Johnstone (trophies won = 0) are a successful club, and then using it as proof that Hibs are failing.

If our club had spent as much time in the lower leagues as them, we would be saying we are finished. If they had won a quarter of our sparse trophy haul, in their history, they would be delighted.

Yes, Hibs should be doing better, and our board are quite possibly the reason for that, but to compare ourself to St. Johnstone, who are having a good season this year, shows the short sighted and knee jerk responses of lots of football supporters.

One point that has been missed about the smaller town clubs is operating costs. A poster on here explained that because the Arabs operate in a city where things are cheaper they don't need as many fans to cover overheads.

Maybe we should move out of Edinburgh to a place with lower operating costs,

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 10:59 AM
No problem with that, other than the torture we can expect during the transition seasons. Everyone - the fans, the manager, the players, the club - all know that Hibs are a piss poor side with below average players who need to be replaced. Butcher says that every week.

So why are we all expected to pay a premium price for a ST... for a work in progress ? This is akin to Adobe trying to charge you full price to Beta test their latest software, knowing it's full of bugs, will crash every now and then, and is not fit for purpose. Wake me up in 2016/7 :rolleyes:

fair enough but we have been changing manager every other season for a while and that's not worked so lets tough it out and see where it takes us. If some don't want to go on that journey then I would have no problem with that.

There have been a number of opinions on where we are going wrong expressed on this thread, and others, and I posted elsewhere (half cut admittedly) that anyone can step forward and buy the club implementing their own plans and risking their own funds.

Eyrie
16-03-2014, 12:01 PM
A quality craftsman can only succeed if he works for a company dedicated to delivering a quality product. This involves a structured recruitment strategy, succession planning and a high performance culture.

So who determines the culture? Should it be the owner, chief executive, Director of Football or first team manager?

Given that the problem is an underperforming first team, I'd argue it is the manager. The first two can lay out a general strategy, but the actual implementation is down to whoever they appoint. And we don't have a Director of Football.

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 05:18 PM
For me today shows that Stewart Milne knew that without The Rangers and a poor Hearts side if he pumps a bit money in and get a good manager and good players in it does pay off. Yes it was pens but they still won it and the deserved it.

Hibs should have binned Pat long ago and gone for him. But I'm pleased we have got Terry Butcher. This board MUST pump in the money now. No Hearts next year so why shouldn't we look for second or third. If we finish mid table yet again then I think even I'm done with them.

Lets have ambition, let's dare to take a chance. NO I'm not saying spend millions I'm saying spend to compete with the likes of the dons. It's no good having a decent manager if the board or owner doesn't share the same thoughts.

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 05:21 PM
For me today shows that Stewart Milne knew that without The Rangers and a poor Hearts side if he pumps a bit money in and get a good manager and good players in it does pay off. Yes it was pens but they still won it and the deserved it.

Hibs should have binned Pat long ago and gone for him. But I'm pleased we have got Terry Butcher. This board MUST pump in the money now. No Hearts next year so why shouldn't we look for second or third. If we finish mid table yet again then I think even I'm done with them.

Lets have ambition, let's dare to take a chance. NO I'm not saying spend millions I'm saying spend to compete with the likes of the dons. It's no good having a decent manager if the board or owner doesn't share the same thoughts.

How much money ;how long for; what can we reasonably expect to achieve?

cleanyman
16-03-2014, 05:22 PM
Our trophy haul is embarrassingly poor.

With no Rangers and Hearts at their weakest we have failed to take advantage. Next season could be the last chance saloon.

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 05:23 PM
Our trophy haul is embarrassingly poor.

With no Rangers and Hearts at their weakest we have failed to take advantage. Next season could be the last chance saloon.

Hearts have been weaker than this season and will be again.

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 05:24 PM
How much money ;how long for; what can we reasonably expect to achieve?

As much to match our rivals. We pull in the same crowds as dons. I'd expect one cup within 5 years of building and setting standards and at least a Europa place each year.

Would you agree? Or do you think we should carry on as we are?

cleanyman
16-03-2014, 05:25 PM
Hearts have been weaker than this season and will be again.

Not in my lifetime anyway.

We are total failures.

nonshinyfinish
16-03-2014, 05:25 PM
For me today shows that Stewart Milne knew that without The Rangers and a poor Hearts side if he pumps a bit money in and get a good manager and good players in it does pay off. Yes it was pens but they still won it and the deserved it.

Hibs should have binned Pat long ago and gone for him. But I'm pleased we have got Terry Butcher. This board MUST pump in the money now. No Hearts next year so why shouldn't we look for second or third. If we finish mid table yet again then I think even I'm done with them.

Lets have ambition, let's dare to take a chance. NO I'm not saying spend millions I'm saying spend to compete with the likes of the dons. It's no good having a decent manager if the board or owner doesn't share the same thoughts.

Mixu, Yogi, Collins, Calderwood and Fenlon were all given money to spend. The problem is clearly in how it was spent. If you want to trace that back to Petrie then criticise his hiring, but you can't accuse the board of not providing managers with funds.

You could argue that we should have pushed the boat out a bit more, in the 'speculate to accumulate' fashion, but do you really think the Calderwood/Fenlon tenures would have been greatly different if they had an extra £500k to spend?

What's needed is to hire the right manager (hopefully that's now been achieved), give him the same financial backing that previous managers have enjoyed, and if he can turn that into improved performances then the increased gate/ST income can be chucked back into his wages pot.

3pm
16-03-2014, 05:26 PM
Is it not more down to crap signings rather than a lack of ambition?

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 05:26 PM
Any successful business is built on good foundations but also they take risks. Not huge or enough to cripple them. But buying a player or two that could get fans back and playing good football is the difference from many attending and not attending.

Farmer saved us and I'll always be grateful but I'd hope he sees the SPFL as most do and that's it weakened hugely.

Elephant Stone
16-03-2014, 05:27 PM
First trophy in 18 years and now Aberdeen are the model of ambition?

The_Horde
16-03-2014, 05:27 PM
For me today shows that Stewart Milne knew that without The Rangers and a poor Hearts side if he pumps a bit money in and get a good manager and good players in it does pay off. Yes it was pens but they still won it and the deserved it.

Hibs should have binned Pat long ago and gone for him. But I'm pleased we have got Terry Butcher. This board MUST pump in the money now. No Hearts next year so why shouldn't we look for second or third. If we finish mid table yet again then I think even I'm done with them.

Lets have ambition, let's dare to take a chance. NO I'm not saying spend millions I'm saying spend to compete with the likes of the dons. It's no good having a decent manager if the board or owner doesn't share the same thoughts.

Absolutely. A long term investment required. Good, experienced players on competitive wages and secured to the club for a few years. We have the management team here who can evidently spot a player now let him work his magic.

Another year of picking up players who are 3rd, 4th, 5th on the list and I think a lot more fans will walk through sheer boredom.

leggeto
16-03-2014, 05:28 PM
As much to match our rivals. We pull in the same crowds as dons. I'd expect one cup within 5 years of building and setting standards and at least a Europa place each year.

Would you agree? Or do you think we should carry on as we are?

top six next season then,rod will never go into the overdraught

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 05:28 PM
Is it not more down to crap signings rather than a lack of ambition?

Not really, as the crap signings are what we can afford. Dons offered Rooney way more than us whether we wanted him on loan or perm. Hibs should now be pushing on not falling behind.

Edinburgh is a huge city, it should appeal to players to play for Hibs but only if we have the right folk running and managing.

GreenCastle
16-03-2014, 05:30 PM
For me today shows that Stewart Milne knew that without The Rangers and a poor Hearts side if he pumps a bit money in and get a good manager and good players in it does pay off. Yes it was pens but they still won it and the deserved it.

Hibs should have binned Pat long ago and gone for him. But I'm pleased we have got Terry Butcher. This board MUST pump in the money now. No Hearts next year so why shouldn't we look for second or third. If we finish mid table yet again then I think even I'm done with them.

Lets have ambition, let's dare to take a chance. NO I'm not saying spend millions I'm saying spend to compete with the likes of the dons. It's no good having a decent manager if the board or owner doesn't share the same thoughts.


:top marks:agree:

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 05:31 PM
First trophy in 18 years and now Aberdeen are the model of ambition?

No but they have now pushed on with an ambitious manager with good players. They have now won a cup and a good chance to reach another final. So I think we should be looking at them and taking note.

Ronniekirk
16-03-2014, 05:50 PM
How much money ;how long for; what can we reasonably expect to achieve?
We have missed the boat.There are no foundations for butcher to build on So Stanton apart and consider moving Foster to Centre Back and we hope Harris comes good ,possibly Cummings although he wasn't impressive yesterday Then you could argue that with players we could have to keep as under contract like Hanlon ,McGivern, Nelson ,Heff ,Robertson Collins We need at least 8 first Team Players to come in and hit ground running . That's the Enormity of the mess we have got into with poor managers brining in poor players season after season .We were cruely exposed all over park yesterday for lack of pace so no point in renewing contracts for Cairney, Thompson and the rest and several young players may have to go that don't stake claim between now and end of season the way Stanton has .The Foundations we have are in facilities and Community Links it's time to refocus on basics the first Team .If we can break into top four it will be good first season for T B those That expect us to do an Aberdeen in one season are not being realistic IMO .

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 06:16 PM
As much to match our rivals. We pull in the same crowds as dons. I'd expect one cup within 5 years of building and setting standards and at least a Europa place each year.

Would you agree? Or do you think we should carry on as we are?

I've always seen Hibs as a trophy every 20 years, and three or four runners up in the same period. I think we should be targeting a place in the group stages of the Europa league.

But what does it cost, and can you buy success ( without destroying your club ) anyway.

So, where do we get the money to match our ambitions? And where do Aberdeen get the money to bring their stadium up to date?

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 06:21 PM
We have missed the boat.There are no foundations for butcher to build on So Stanton apart and consider moving Foster to Centre Back and we hope Harris comes good ,possibly Cummings although he wasn't impressive yesterday Then you could argue that with players we could have to keep as under contract like Hanlon ,McGivern, Nelson ,Heff ,Robertson Collins We need at least 8 first Team Players to come in and hit ground running . That's the Enormity of the mess we have got into with poor managers brining in poor players season after season .We were cruely exposed all over park yesterday for lack of pace so no point in renewing contracts for Cairney, Thompson and the rest and several young players may have to go that don't stake claim between now and end of season the way Stanton has .The Foundations we have are in facilities and Community Links it's time to refocus on basics the first Team .If we can break into top four it will be good first season for T B those That expect us to do an Aberdeen in one season are not being realistic IMO .

I agree with what you say, (I think - theres a lot to think about!). We have a lot of work to do to make top four. We do have the foundations, and that is something the likes of Aberdeen are going to have to address at some point.

I don't know where they got the money to buy the likes of Robson and Flood.

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 06:25 PM
I've always seen Hibs as a trophy every 20 years, and three or four runners up in the same period. I think we should be targeting a place in the group stages of the Europa league.

But what does it cost, and can you buy success ( without destroying your club ) anyway.

So, where do we get the money to match our ambitions?

Farmer is the only one who can provide us. Even a loan? That's what I mean by a business plan. I know you will keep shooting this down and I'm not a financial expert. But I do work in a business where plans are make risks are taken and sometimes they pay off. In this league it wouldn't take much to be 2nd or third and I think if folk are happy with how we just plod along then that shows that they plus the board settle for bang average.

Again I'm not saying blow millions. Our owner has the cash to invest if not I'd like him to sell. Farmer is level headed so I'm sure a buyer would be out there. Something has to give FR. Look at our crowds! Football has changed dramatically since 80's and 90's. We have the foundations to now kick on. Sadly we lack what is needed most. The quality on the park.

I'm not having a go btw but can I ask wHat you think of the current board/owner and team. What you would do to improve it or would you settle for what we have?

Saorsa
16-03-2014, 06:27 PM
I agree with what you say, (I think - theres a lot to think about!). We have a lot of work to do to make top four. We do have the foundations, and that is something the likes of Aberdeen are going to have to address at some point.

I don't know where they got the money to buy the likes of Robson and Flood.Maybe from their owner/chairman/major shareholder or whatever who actively takes an interest (and who saw an opportunity) in the club rather then letting it wither on the vine under the guidance of a man who has been responsible for the shambles and decline of the last 7 years. :dunno: just a guess, could be wrong.

Kaiser1962
16-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Again I'm not saying blow millions. Our owner has the cash to invest if not I'd like him to sell. Farmer is level headed so I'm sure a buyer would be out there. Something has to give FR. Look at our crowds! Football has changed dramatically since 80's and 90's. We have the foundations to now kick on. Sadly we lack what is needed most. The quality on the park.

It may be an "investment" in a football sense but financially its money that he will never see again. If there's someone out there willing to buy then let them step forward. It wont be a big list.

3pm
16-03-2014, 06:47 PM
How much do they pay Robson and Flood?!

inglisavhibs
16-03-2014, 06:56 PM
On December 19th I was fortunate enough to attend the grand opening of East Mains. Lots of dignitaries present including Rod and Sir Tom. The main man, John Collins, was missing. What we did not know was that he had handed in his notice. After being hunted down by Tommy Craig and Tim Gardiner, he reluctantly turned up to take his place on the stage for the speeches. (thanks HH - missed this bit out)

The official reason cited in the press was a lack of ambition by the Hibernian Board. They had player sales income of nine million pounds but were only re-investing a small fraction into sourcing replacements. John had a grander vision for the club but within the resources that had been made available, was expected to rummage around in the bargain basement for signings. He apparently wasn't willing to accept second best for his club - and so decided to walk away.

That for me was a watershed moment in the development of our football club and a position from which we have consummately failed to recover. Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and Fenlon all tried to re-build the squad but in the absence of any board-approved football strategy or direction, appear to have been left pretty much to their own devices. A huge number of out-of-contract journeymen, loan signings and U19 youngsters passed through the club since that time without ever achieving the appearance of a settled team. The excitement and expectation generated by the arrival of a new coaching team and new signings have been quickly dashed when it became obvious that all we had was a disconnected group of individuals rather than a Hibs team worthy of the name.

Every first-team coach we have had since Collins has pleaded with us to create this mythical 'Fortress Easter Road'. Supporters have been urged to dig deep to fulfil Mixu's vision. John's Vision, Colin's Vision, Pat's Vision and now Terry's vision. The same marketing slogans, the same group of investors and a deteriorating rate of return in terms of product on the park, entertainment, value for money, fitness, dedication, performance, squad construction, tactics and basic skills acquisition. Permanent bottom six with a shameful home record and some embarrassing defeats laced in between.

They built us a great stadium and training centre but then had absolutely no clue on how to deliver a football operation worthy of the support. Sadly, that has become Rod Petrie's legacy ......... instead of the huge achievement of delivering infrastructure fit for the 21st century. The past 7 years has been a catalogue of failure with a false dawn every time a new manager is appointed or a new squad churn engineered. How can we escape the feeling that its same old, same old with our new coaching team once again slumped in the dugout apparently bereft on ideas. When we stood singing Sunshine on Leith that glorious March day in 2007, did we expect to kick on and become a new force in football as Dougie Donnelly predicted? I know I did

Seven years on and for me - it's GroundHog Day
I wonder what you expect the board to do? Other than give the manager more money I am not sure what you want. Most management teams in football want less interference from boards allowing them to get on with the football side. I am afraid that the managers you mention have all been very poor and in particular their selection of players has been dreadful,especially when compared with other SPL teams with much less money to spend. Our current manager has at least been successful in our league and should be given a chance to change our fortunes. As everybody can see it's no easy task with a large player turnaround required. If the board can be blamed for anything it is their selection of managers with far too much emphasis on ex Hibs men. None of the managers mentioned above have gone on to better things at club level and I doubt they will. There is no easy answer to this, we need better, motivated players moulded in to a decent organised team by a decent manager. I hope Butcher is that man.

RIP
16-03-2014, 08:21 PM
I wonder what you expect the board to do? Other than give the manager more money I am not sure what you want. Most management teams in football want less interference from boards allowing them to get on with the football side. I am afraid that the managers you mention have all been very poor and in particular their selection of players has been dreadful,especially when compared with other SPL teams with much less money to spend. Our current manager has at least been successful in our league and should be given a chance to change our fortunes. As everybody can see it's no easy task with a large player turnaround required. If the board can be blamed for anything it is their selection of managers with far too much emphasis on ex Hibs men. None of the managers mentioned above have gone on to better things at club level and I doubt they will. There is no easy answer to this, we need better, motivated players moulded in to a decent organised team by a decent manager. I hope Butcher is that man.

Forgive me my friend but until such times as supporters like us wake up to the fact that building a high performing football club involves a lot more than simply balancing books, setting budgets and hiring football coaches we will continue to wallow in mediocrity.

It's kind of like Tom Farmer saying go buy some shops and sell some tyres. There were loads of firms doing similar. Sir Tom got to the top because he used entrepreneurial flair to build a top brand, vision, strategy, organisational culture and first-class customer service. A FIT company from top to bottom.

stevejordan
16-03-2014, 09:41 PM
Maybe from their owner/chairman/major shareholder or whatever who actively takes an interest (and who saw an opportunity) in the club rather then letting it wither on the vine under the guidance of a man who has been responsible for the shambles and decline of the last 7 years. :dunno: just a guess, could be wrong.

Petrie is a cautious man every pound is a prisoner it is in his DNA he runs a prudent tight ship TF Likes his style he backed him at the AGM The balance sheet has been the priority for last 7 years.

Before that time frame we had the Golden years when we sold players for millions and millions of pounds and made a fortune and invested the money in East Mains and our Stadium.

The neglect of the first team over the last 7 years has seen thousands of our fans stop going and in many cases given up we have no players worth a carrot worth selling and a chairman in charge who i can only describe as a Misor with no ambition.

We will continue to decline unless things change Aberdeen have shown what can be done with investment and support of the first team and management.

Terry is like Duffy Jim we are 9 games away from wher Duffy took us and if we do not pick up we are going the same way we have recorded one win in our last 11 games and every week it just gets worse.

Personally i think we will avoid the play offs but bottom six again and no signs of any improvement makes a really dissapointing season yet again.

Ronniekirk
16-03-2014, 09:45 PM
I agree with what you say, (I think - theres a lot to think about!). We have a lot of work to do to make top four. We do have the foundations, and that is something the likes of Aberdeen are going to have to address at some point.

I don't know where they got the money to buy the likes of Robson and Flood.
Wasn't that impressed by Aberdeen today but guess they just needed to win that first trophy in 20 years and get the monkey off thier back .Inverness had some good players but they couldn't get McKay into game .whats happen to him since yogi took over.

Viva_Palmeiras
16-03-2014, 10:02 PM
Petrie is a cautious man every pound is a prisoner it is in his DNA he runs a prudent tight ship TF Likes his style he backed him at the AGM The balance sheet has been the priority for last 7 years.

Before that time frame we had the Golden years when we sold players for millions and millions of pounds and made a fortune and invested the money in East Mains and our Stadium.

The neglect of the first team over the last 7 years has seen thousands of our fans stop going and in many cases given up we have no players worth a carrot worth selling and a chairman in charge who i can only describe as a Misor with no ambition.

We will continue to decline unless things change Aberdeen have shown what can be done with investment and support of the first team and management.

Terry is like Duffy Jim we are 9 games away from wher Duffy took us and if we do not pick up we are going the same way we have recorded one win in our last 11 games and every week it just gets worse.

Personally i think we will avoid the play offs but bottom six again and no signs of any improvement makes a really dissapointing season yet again.

Aberdeen-schmaberdeen. "The graveyard of managers" - Sunday Supplement quote not mine.

From the paw Broon era can anyone really have foreseen a cup win?

As much a basketcaae of a club as us (management/performance wise) and whilst they won today hardly wiped the floor with ICT. I think they've been struggling to find the right formula as much as we have.

To compare TB with Jim Duffy - really?

stevejordan
16-03-2014, 10:03 PM
[QUOTE=Right Said Frank;3934456]Because our simplistic approach is continuing to fail spectacularly as it has with the last 7 years of Petrie's (fast becoming) "unworkable legacy".[/QUOTE

Petries Legacy is to tell our grand children come see our fantastic stadium and our fantastic training complex do you like it ? yes but why is the stadium so empty on match days and where are the trophys for all this training place they answer ?

Investment in the team is what we need now to avoid these questions in the future.

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 10:06 PM
Before that time frame we had the Golden years when we sold players for millions and millions of pounds and made a fortune and invested the money in East Mains and our Stadium.

And before that we spent lots of money on players like Sauzee, Latapy, O'Neil, Zitelli, Luna and more yet we lost money hand over fist which meant we needed to sell to balance the books. The money to pay for it wasnt coming from anywhere else.


We will continue to decline unless things change Aberdeen have shown what can be done with investment and support of the first team and management


Aberdeen are the one club who have performed, pound for pound, worse than us.

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 10:07 PM
Farmer is the only one who can provide us. Even a loan? That's what I mean by a business plan. I know you will keep shooting this down and I'm not a financial expert. But I do work in a business where plans are make risks are taken and sometimes they pay off. In this league it wouldn't take much to be 2nd or third and I think if folk are happy with how we just plod along then that shows that they plus the board settle for bang average.

Again I'm not saying blow millions. Our owner has the cash to invest if not I'd like him to sell. Farmer is level headed so I'm sure a buyer would be out there. Something has to give FR. Look at our crowds! Football has changed dramatically since 80's and 90's. We have the foundations to now kick on. Sadly we lack what is needed most. The quality on the park.

I'm not having a go btw but can I ask wHat you think of the current board/owner and team. What you would do to improve it or would you settle for what we have?

I think you're talking sense. The club has to set objectives, and then put plans in place to meet them.

I'm a convert to the school of thought that says we lack direction. Things have to improve.

Ronniekirk
16-03-2014, 10:07 PM
Where did all those Elephants in the room Disappear to .?:rolleyes:

inglisavhibs
16-03-2014, 10:09 PM
Forgive me my friend but until such times as supporters like us wake up to the fact that building a high performing football club involves a lot more than simply balancing books, setting budgets and hiring football coaches we will continue to wallow in mediocrity.

It's kind of like Tom Farmer saying go buy some shops and sell some tyres. There were loads of firms doing similar. Sir Tom got to the top because he used entrepreneurial flair to build a top brand, vision, strategy, organisational culture and first-class customer service. A FIT company from top to bottom.
So what do you want the board to do? They have got most things right off the pitch, it's up to the football people to get it right on the pitch. We have the best stadium outside the old firm,we have our own impressive academy and just to put the record straight we find it hard to balance the books on our turnover. Tom Farmer got in to the market for tyres and exhausts at an early stage and there was a huge market untapped. Do you think Hibs can be a top brand? i would settle for a decent team to watch, winning our fair share of games, winning the odd cup and competing at the top end of the league. A good manager can achieve that with Hibs.

greenpaper55
16-03-2014, 10:10 PM
I think you're talking sense. The club has to set objectives, and then put plans in place to meet them.

I'm a convert to the school of thought that says we lack direction. Things have to improve.

Remember we have a 5 year plan.... i think !.

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2014, 10:10 PM
Petrie is a cautious man every pound is a prisoner it is in his DNA he runs a prudent tight ship TF Likes his style he backed him at the AGM The balance sheet has been the priority for last 7 years.

Before that time frame we had the Golden years when we sold players for millions and millions of pounds and made a fortune and invested the money in East Mains and our Stadium.

The neglect of the first team over the last 7 years has seen thousands of our fans stop going and in many cases given up we have no players worth a carrot worth selling and a chairman in charge who i can only describe as a Misor with no ambition.

We will continue to decline unless things change Aberdeen have shown what can be done with investment and support of the first team and management.

Terry is like Duffy Jim we are 9 games away from wher Duffy took us and if we do not pick up we are going the same way we have recorded one win in our last 11 games and every week it just gets worse.

Personally i think we will avoid the play offs but bottom six again and no signs of any improvement makes a really dissapointing season yet again.

Anybody that went through Duffy would say that's nonsense.

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 10:14 PM
I think you're talking sense. The club has to set objectives, and then put plans in place to meet them.

I'm a convert to the school of thought that says we lack direction. Things have to improve.

Really hope they do, I think the fans have suffered to much now. As you prob know I support Terry 100% and I think he's the man to move us on. I just wish we could change something and make it all click. To many are walking away from this club and after reading through many comments they have a point! I'd rather they didn't but what is the pull? I only get a season ticket to do something on a sat.

This club as a whole need to sit down and dramatically change the way we think. Personally I feel we have this loser attitude hanging over the club and that needs to go.

stevejordan
16-03-2014, 10:18 PM
Anybody that went through Duffy would say that's nonsense.

i hope you are right but i see the slippery slope and the likeness to the " No worrys we are fine mindset " of the Duffy Jim regime current form is dire however i still think we will be okay sorry i tend to panic and i hope you are right.

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 10:18 PM
Really hope they do, I think the fans have suffered to much now. As you prob know I support Terry 100% and I think he's the man to move us on. I just wish we could change something and make it all click. To many are walking away from this club and after reading through many comments they have a point! I'd rather they didn't but what is the pull? I only get a season ticket to do something on a sat.

This club as a whole need to sit down and dramatically change the way we think. Personally I feel we have this loser attitude hanging over the club and that needs to go.

Starting with guaranteeing Butcher the time he needs?

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 10:21 PM
i hope you are right but i see the slippery slope and the likeness to the " No worrys we are fine mindset " of the Duffy Jim regime current form is dire however i still think we will be okay sorry i tend to panic and i hope you are right.

It would be more accurate to liken Butcher's situation to the one McLeish inherrited.

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 10:21 PM
Starting with guaranteeing Butcher the time he needs?

IMO yes. Results could and should be better. But he will be judged next season with his own players not ones who are half arsed and can't handle tough training. The only reason TB is getting as much grief now is because of previous managers. Fans are simply fed up.

The Falcon
16-03-2014, 10:27 PM
IMO yes. Results could and should be better. But he will be judged next season with his own players not ones who are half arsed and can't handle tough training. The only reason TB is getting as much grief now is because of previous managers. Fans are simply fed up.

Although I have never really been convinced about Butcher's ability there's no doubting his attitude. Others have mentioned the time it took at ICT to get it right and we keep changing managers which clearly hasnt worked. So let the man do what he did at ICT which may take time

Thecat23
16-03-2014, 10:29 PM
Although I have never really been convinced about Butcher's ability there's no doubting his attitude. Others have mentioned the time it took at ICT to get it right and we keep changing managers which clearly hasnt worked. So let him do what he did at ICT.

This is exactly how I see it. We must give him time as he has proved he can do it in this league. Butcher isn't the problem at Hibs.

stevejordan
16-03-2014, 10:30 PM
Although I have never really been convinced about Butcher's ability there's no doubting his attitude. Others have mentioned the time it took at ICT to get it right and we keep changing managers which clearly hasnt worked. So let the man do what he did at ICT which may take time

i agree but whilst i also agree that paddy was a very nice man he left us in the s--t with the worst set of players i can remember and that includes Duffy Jims team

RIP
17-03-2014, 12:29 AM
So what do you want the board to do? They have got most things right off the pitch, it's up to the football people to get it right on the pitch. We have the best stadium outside the old firm,we have our own impressive academy and just to put the record straight we find it hard to balance the books on our turnover. Tom Farmer got in to the market for tyres and exhausts at an early stage and there was a huge market untapped. Do you think Hibs can be a top brand? i would settle for a decent team to watch, winning our fair share of games, winning the odd cup and competing at the top end of the league. A good manager can achieve that with Hibs.

I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.

Thecat23
17-03-2014, 12:50 AM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.

Pretty much all this.

Onion
17-03-2014, 06:26 AM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.

I a nutshell :agree:

WHUHibs
17-03-2014, 06:49 AM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.

Hit the nail on the head,,, he does not have vision he is an excellent accountant who can make sure the investment is safe... If he can't visualise an investment in a good CEO then the continued under performance will be with us for years to come. Even if a Terry can give us a winning team then when he leaves for his next step we would go back to the status Quo... I hope Terry gets it right but without vision any success will be short term.

I am fed up of hearing about a 5 year plan,,,lay out the vision with who is going to drive and implement it then it becomes real...an accountant sadly in my opinion can't do this even if the will is there,,,which I doubt!

I bought a season ticket lat year as I have for the previous 32 even though my laddie plays under 19s ,,we attend every game we can home and away,,depending on his fixtures..this is the first year that I don't have the stomach to renew and may just pick my games,,,it's hard to take as the club needs the income to buy players etc,,,but I am completely disillusioned ,,,my non purchase won't hurt the club and maybe I can be criticised but no one can question 32 years investment for a mediocre return,,
A good CEO with a 100-150k package, perhaps with shares would make a significant difference to our future but sadly I don't see that happening,,,

The Falcon
17-03-2014, 07:15 AM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.


How do you structure "long term squad building strategy" when there are folk already on the managers back after less than six months?

Depends on the definition of long term I suppose.

inglisavhibs
17-03-2014, 02:09 PM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.

With due respect much of what you say just doesn't and wont ever happen. Define a style of play? Not the board's job and never will be. High performance culture? Do you mean higher bonuses? I have not heard many Hibs players complain about bonuses unlike some other teams. Long term squad building is impossible with freedom of contract and selling is now part and parcel of nearly all teams, we are meant to be producing our own players from the academy (again a football matter that needs to be addressed). Hiring a manager and communicating with the fans is part of the boards job and our record particularly with the former is not too good. It is concerning to us all that regular attenders are giving up and it's difficult to blame them as we have suffered mediocrity at best for a number of seasons now. Lower season ticket sales are inevitable and unfortunately that means less opportunity in the transfer window and the prospect of further decline of our club.

ancient hibee
18-03-2014, 04:53 PM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inpire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.


You're deluded if you think that's how it works.The only thing that matters is that a dominant manager controls everything.This is not the chairman or a CEO it is the man that puts the team on the field.If you don't believe me read any book by or about Alex Ferguson.It's all about his control.Manchester United grew on the back of Ferguson's achievements not the other way round.They were able to provide the facilities that they have now because of him-he managed the club's officials.Stein left Celtic because the board thought they were more important than him.

greenpaper55
18-03-2014, 04:59 PM
You're deluded if you think that's how it works.The only thing that matters is that a dominant manager controls everything.This is not the chairman or a CEO it is the man that puts the team on the field.If you don't believe me read any book by or about Alex Ferguson.It's all about his control.Manchester United grew on the back of Ferguson's achievements not the other way round.They were able to provide the facilities that they have now because of him-he managed the club's officials.Stein left Celtic because the board thought they were more important than him.

Man City did not grow on the back of their managers achievements, they were led there by money and ambition. Our CEO has no ambition other than not to run the club at a loss.

ancient hibee
18-03-2014, 05:03 PM
Man City did not grow on the back of their managers achievements, they were led there by money and ambition. Our CEO has no ambition other than not to run the club at a loss.

Manchester City's "achievments"are no better than they were 50 years ago.

greenpaper55
18-03-2014, 05:17 PM
Manchester City's "achievments"are no better than they were 50 years ago.

Are you saying that City are not one of the best teams in Europe ?, a far cry from any year you care to mention in the last 50 years. Are you saying that a board driven by ambition has not delivered a better team ?, on a smaller scale it can be done if anyone at the top at ER had any vision other than the accounts.

Hibbyradge
18-03-2014, 05:19 PM
Are you saying that City are not one of the best teams in Europe ?, a far cry from any year you care to mention in the last 50 years. Are you saying that a board driven by ambition has not delivered a better team ?, on a smaller scale it can be done if anyone at the top at ER had any vision other than the accounts.

Man City are driven by money.

Hibs don't have any money.

Ambition doesn't come into it.

greenpaper55
18-03-2014, 05:24 PM
Man City are driven by money.

Hibs don't have any money.

Ambition doesn't come into it.

Your right about the last bit !.

RIP
18-03-2014, 05:24 PM
How do you structure "long term squad building strategy" when there are folk already on the managers back after less than six months? Depends on the definition of long term I suppose.

Rod, Scott Lindsay and Brian Houston have I believe taken advice on this in the past. Here is one example I made up - I'm sure we could use our current manager to help us build a template if Alex Ferguson is otherwise busy. However don't leave it all to TB as football coaches are by nature ... transitional.

Within three years 50% of the squad will be home-grown products. We will spend over budget on two flair players (don't retch) in a summer window to bring in the crowds and help shift ST's. The remainder will be proven SPL players sourced from our rivals. Loan players will be sourced mid-season only as injury cover. No manager will be permitted to churn a whole team. This is the failed strategy of the past 7 years.


With due respect much of what you say just doesn't and wont ever happen. Define a style of play? Not the board's job and never will be. Maybe not the board but definitely the club. A poor style of play that persists for years loses thousands from the gate. We have proved that. At Hibs we won't win cups but I'm dammed if our SPL rivals can keep the ball down and we play aimless hoof manager upon manager. It's not acceptable. Not on our watch. Look at St Johnstone, Motherwell, Swansea for examples of CEO or board-inspired vision


High performance culture? Here's what a good Hibby said 18 months ago - and he knows what he's talking about!!http://blog.grow-your-business.co.uk/performance-lessons-from-a-scottish-cup-humiliation/


You're deluded if you think that's how it works.The only thing that matters is that a dominant manager controls everything.This is not the chairman or a CEO it is the man that puts the team on the field.If you don't believe me read any book by or about Alex Ferguson.It's all about his control.Manchester United grew on the back of Ferguson's achievements not the other way round.They were able to provide the facilities that they have now because of him-he managed the club's officials.

Fergie is a one-off who was eight years at Aberdeen, 16 at Man Utd. With such an inspirational leader you hardly need a CEO or Board. We change our manager every year. A talented CEO would bring stability, vision, strategy and continuity and sorry (JC) cost us less than James Collins and if on a performance bonus, bring us financial benefits

jakeshibs
18-03-2014, 05:31 PM
You're deluded if you think that's how it works.The only thing that matters is that a dominant manager controls everything.This is not the chairman or a CEO it is the man that puts the team on the field.If you don't believe me read any book by or about Alex Ferguson.It's all about his control.Manchester United grew on the back of Ferguson's achievements not the other way round.They were able to provide the facilities that they have now because of him-he managed the club's officials.Stein left Celtic because the board thought they were more important than him.

totally agree, everyone blaming STF or Rod, they do their jobs, and provide the platform..... in TB I trust and we must give him time.

--------
18-03-2014, 06:25 PM
I think we have a chairman who has proven he can count, sell players and build stadiums. I don't think he is proven in a CEO role i.e. create a shared vision, define a Hibs product or style of play, hire and manage coaching teams to deliver, communicate with customers/supporters, introduce a high performance culture, structure a long-term squad-building strategy, bring strong leadership and inspire the club to succeed.

The first team coach runs the team on the park within a framework installed by the CEO. To say they have got most things right is the greatest myth at our club. Their ONLY reason for being is to run a successful football club. In that main objective they have fundamentally failed to deliver.




I agree with you. There are clubs that do a lot better than Hibs do on a budget a lot smaller than Hibs' budget.

The simple fact is that since Tony Mowbray left, Rod Petrie has presided over a slow decline at Easter Road. Six managers have come in, five have gone, and the knives are out for Butcher already. Not one of Butcher's five predecessors lasted a year and a half, even.

We have a pretty stadium, thanks to Farmer and Petrie. Pity the home team plays such dreadful football there.

We have a 'state of the art' training ground, opened 6 years ago - pity no one seems to have been able to translate the excellence of those facilities onto the field of play during those six years.

Either Petrie has made 6 duff appointments, one after the other - which argues strongly that as far as the football side of the club is concerned, his judgement is seriously open to question - or manager after manager has come into the club and encountered a club ethos and atmosphere which simply doesn't allow real progress to be made on the field of play.

Or a personality (or personalities) who have made his job difficult to impossible because of the way they exercise influence and power within the corporate structure of the club?

There IS such a thing as a dysfunctional corporate ethos - companies and other organisations can be sick in the way they're organised, in the way they approach business, in the way they set priorities, or in the way that senior officers operate within the organisation.

At what point does the Hibs support stop just blaming the manager - short-term as he has been for the past decade at least, and start really questioning the guy who's been here and in charge for that whole period?

In my job, if a congregation went through six or seven ministers in less than ten years, no one would be bemoaning their apparent bad luck in making the appointments - the authorities would long ago have set up an investigation into what exactly was going on inside the congregation that apparently made it impossible for anyone to work there with any degree of success.

I don't think you or I should be considered 'deluded' for asking these questions - Butcher is a proven SPFL manager; Malpas a proven coach at the same level. There's always been an 'escape clause' before now - inexperience, lack of commitment, whatever. But Butcher and Malpas have already done the job successfully at Motherwell and ITC.

How many times do we have to go through this vicious rigmarole before some folks admit that there's something rotten in the state of the club farther up the pyramid than the manager's office?

greenpaper55
18-03-2014, 06:39 PM
I agree with you. There are clubs that do a lot better than Hibs do on a budget a lot smaller than Hibs' budget.

The simple fact is that since Tony Mowbray left, Rod Petrie has presided over a slow decline at Easter Road. Six managers have come in, five have gone, and the knives are out for Butcher already. Not one of Butcher's five predecessors lasted a year and a half, even.

We have a pretty stadium, thanks to Farmer and Petrie. Pity the home team plays such dreadful football there.

We have a 'state of the art' training ground, opened 6 years ago - pity no one seems to have been able to translate the excellence of those facilities onto the field of play during those six years.

Either Petrie has made 6 duff appointments, one after the other - which argues strongly that as far as the football side of the club is concerned, his judgement is seriously open to question - or manager after manager has come into the club and encountered a club ethos and atmosphere which simply doesn't allow real progress to be made on the field of play.

Or a personality (or personalities) who have made his job difficult to impossible because of the way they exercise influence and power within the corporate structure of the club?

There IS such a thing as a dysfunctional corporate ethos - companies and other organisations can be sick in the way they're organised, in the way they approach business, in the way they set priorities, or in the way that senior officers operate within the organisation.

At what point does the Hibs support stop just blaming the manager - short-term as he has been for the past decade at least, and start really questioning the guy who's been here and in charge for that whole period?

In my job, if a congregation went through six or seven ministers in less than ten years, no one would be bemoaning their apparent bad luck in making the appointments - the authorities would long ago have set up an investigation into what exactly was going on inside the congregation that apparently made it impossible for anyone to work there with any degree of success.

I don't think you or I should be considered 'deluded' for asking these questions - Butcher is a proven SPFL manager; Malpas a proven coach at the same level. There's always been an 'escape clause' before now - inexperience, lack of commitment, whatever. But Butcher and Malpas have already done the job successfully at Motherwell and ITC.

How many times do we have to go through this vicious rigmarole before some folks admit that there's something rotten in the state of the club farther up the pyramid than the manager's office?

:top marksspot on, if the high heid yins are so good how is the team so bad !.

The Falcon
18-03-2014, 08:42 PM
Rod, Scott Lindsay and Brian Houston have I believe taken advice on this in the past. Here is one example I made up - I'm sure we could use our current manager to help us build a template if Alex Ferguson is otherwise busy. However don't leave it all to TB as football coaches are by nature ... transitional.

Within three years 50% of the squad will be home-grown products. We will spend over budget on two flair players (don't retch) in a summer window to bring in the crowds and help shift ST's. The remainder will be proven SPL players sourced from our rivals. Loan players will be sourced mid-season only as injury cover. No manager will be permitted to churn a whole team. This is the failed strategy of the past 7 years.


In an ideal world that would be great.

McLeish signed the players he did in the belief that he could fill ER in a similarly proportionately way that Rantic fill their grounds against the rest of the SPL. That went so badly that we were forced to change track as we were perilously close to testing STF's kudos with the bank. The chuckle brothers speculated in the late 80's with an even more disastrous outcome.

Dosent mean we should ignore any plans which will improve the side like the one you suggest but lets learn from previous mistakes, and not implode if they dont happen. Do we now have the right manager? Or managerial team? I dont know but we have one that has done well in Scotland with two clubs, has a no nonsense attitude that we need with the manager himself having a standing in the game that should be to the clubs advantage.

I think we should give him time. And plenty of it.

GreenCastle
18-03-2014, 10:14 PM
I agree with you. There are clubs that do a lot better than Hibs do on a budget a lot smaller than Hibs' budget.

The simple fact is that since Tony Mowbray left, Rod Petrie has presided over a slow decline at Easter Road. Six managers have come in, five have gone, and the knives are out for Butcher already. Not one of Butcher's five predecessors lasted a year and a half, even.

We have a pretty stadium, thanks to Farmer and Petrie. Pity the home team plays such dreadful football there.

We have a 'state of the art' training ground, opened 6 years ago - pity no one seems to have been able to translate the excellence of those facilities onto the field of play during those six years.

Either Petrie has made 6 duff appointments, one after the other - which argues strongly that as far as the football side of the club is concerned, his judgement is seriously open to question - or manager after manager has come into the club and encountered a club ethos and atmosphere which simply doesn't allow real progress to be made on the field of play.

Or a personality (or personalities) who have made his job difficult to impossible because of the way they exercise influence and power within the corporate structure of the club?

There IS such a thing as a dysfunctional corporate ethos - companies and other organisations can be sick in the way they're organised, in the way they approach business, in the way they set priorities, or in the way that senior officers operate within the organisation.

At what point does the Hibs support stop just blaming the manager - short-term as he has been for the past decade at least, and start really questioning the guy who's been here and in charge for that whole period?

In my job, if a congregation went through six or seven ministers in less than ten years, no one would be bemoaning their apparent bad luck in making the appointments - the authorities would long ago have set up an investigation into what exactly was going on inside the congregation that apparently made it impossible for anyone to work there with any degree of success.

I don't think you or I should be considered 'deluded' for asking these questions - Butcher is a proven SPFL manager; Malpas a proven coach at the same level. There's always been an 'escape clause' before now - inexperience, lack of commitment, whatever. But Butcher and Malpas have already done the job successfully at Motherwell and ITC.

How many times do we have to go through this vicious rigmarole before some folks admit that there's something rotten in the state of the club farther up the pyramid than the manager's office?


:top marks:top marks

Captain Trips
20-03-2014, 11:14 AM
Calderwood, Fenlon, Mixu, Hughes, Butcher it matters not since a decent platform on winning CIS cup it has really been a failure, with the infrastructures and stadium and decent budgets for SPL along with the recent Rangers and now Hearts issues there is really no excuses. We are well out of it again due to having to clear up previous mess and is the new manager the right man to clear up?

Bottom line is no matter who the managers have been on the park Hibs have been of the mark for seasons and that falls on the head of the only constants of this time.

2007/2008 6th
2008/2009 6th
2009/2010 4th
2010/2011 10th
2011/2012 11th
2012/2013 7th
2013/2014 Current: 7th 10 games left

I am not asking for much but Hibs should be competing and the last few years have been nothing short of gross incompetence, there are no excuses for us to be scratching around the lower end of table it is simply unacceptable and it has gone well beyond managers.

Paloschi
20-03-2014, 11:49 AM
Calderwood, Fenlon, Mixu, Hughes, Butcher it matters not since a decent platform on winning CIS cup it has really been a failure, with the infrastructures and stadium and decent budgets for SPL along with the recent Rangers and now Hearts issues there is really no excuses. We are well out of it again due to having to clear up previous mess and is the new manager the right man to clear up?

Bottom line is no matter who the managers have been on the park Hibs have been of the mark for seasons and that falls on the head of the only constants of this time.

2007/2008 6th
2008/2009 6th
2009/2010 4th
2010/2011 10th
2011/2012 11th
2012/2013 7th
2013/2014 Current: 7th 10 games left

I am not asking for much but Hibs should be competing and the last few years have been nothing short of gross incompetence, there are no excuses for us to be scratching around the lower end of table it is simply unacceptable and it has gone well beyond managers.

Interesting that our highest finish was under John Hughes who gets a lot of stick from Hibs fans. He did however rely on the goals of Riordan, Stokes and Nish that season. We were pretty good and challenging the old firm then we collapsed after losing 1-4 at home to Rangers. We had Riordan, Stokes, Nish, Zemmama, Liam Miller and Benji that season. It all went wrong the year after when Stokes and Benji left and we replaced them with Gow and Duffy. Hughes had us in free fall at one point, trying to rely on Riordan which is what Fenlon did with Griffiths.

Can we really blame Yogi though? The board let good players go and did not give the boss the backing to replace them. We were a top 4 team at the time and surely our ambitions should have been to build on 4th. Instead we as a club (Petrie and Hughes) made costly mistakes and ultimately we entered a vicious cycle. Just last season Fenlon looked like he got us out of it. We were top in November, like Hughes had us flying that season (Collins even had us up there in 2006/07). But then our season collapsed we finished 7th did not replace Claros and Griffiths and the same has happened. Petrie and the board have over seen this 2 season cycle happen twice, maybe even 3 times if you count Collins and Mixu where similarly our seasons peaked in October/November and ended up petering out big time.

Who is to say this won't happen again? As soon as we get a sniff of success we sell. As soon as we go into free fall we sack. As soon as we appoint a new manager we rebuild. As soon as we rebuild it takes time. As soon as time is given we improve and so on....

IWasThere2016
20-03-2014, 11:51 AM
Calderwood, Fenlon, Mixu, Hughes, Butcher it matters not since a decent platform on winning CIS cup it has really been a failure, with the infrastructures and stadium and decent budgets for SPL along with the recent Rangers and now Hearts issues there is really no excuses. We are well out of it again due to having to clear up previous mess and is the new manager the right man to clear up?

Bottom line is no matter who the managers have been on the park Hibs have been of the mark for seasons and that falls on the head of the only constants of this time.
2007/2008 6th
2008/2009 6th
2009/2010 4th
2010/2011 10th
2011/2012 11th
2012/2013 7th
2013/2014 Current: 7th 10 games left

I am not asking for much but Hibs should be competing and the last few years have been nothing short of gross incompetence, there are no excuses for us to be scratching around the lower end of table it is simply unacceptable and it has gone well beyond managers.

:top marks

Captain Trips
20-03-2014, 02:58 PM
Interesting that our highest finish was under John Hughes who gets a lot of stick from Hibs fans. He did however rely on the goals of Riordan, Stokes and Nish that season. We were pretty good and challenging the old firm then we collapsed after losing 1-4 at home to Rangers. We had Riordan, Stokes, Nish, Zemmama, Liam Miller and Benji that season. It all went wrong the year after when Stokes and Benji left and we replaced them with Gow and Duffy. Hughes had us in free fall at one point, trying to rely on Riordan which is what Fenlon did with Griffiths.

Can we really blame Yogi though? The board let good players go and did not give the boss the backing to replace them. We were a top 4 team at the time and surely our ambitions should have been to build on 4th. Instead we as a club (Petrie and Hughes) made costly mistakes and ultimately we entered a vicious cycle. Just last season Fenlon looked like he got us out of it. We were top in November, like Hughes had us flying that season (Collins even had us up there in 2006/07). But then our season collapsed we finished 7th did not replace Claros and Griffiths and the same has happened. Petrie and the board have over seen this 2 season cycle happen twice, maybe even 3 times if you count Collins and Mixu where similarly our seasons peaked in October/November and ended up petering out big time.

Who is to say this won't happen again? As soon as we get a sniff of success we sell. As soon as we go into free fall we sack. As soon as we appoint a new manager we rebuild. As soon as we rebuild it takes time. As soon as time is given we improve and so on....

20pts behind Motherwell and Aberdeen for a "well run" club is simply a joke of a position. There is nothing well run about that.

weonlywon6-2
20-03-2014, 08:04 PM
Farmer is the only one who can provide us. Even a loan? That's what I mean by a business plan. I know you will keep shooting this down and I'm not a financial expert. But I do work in a business where plans are make risks are taken and sometimes they pay off. In this league it wouldn't take much to be 2nd or third and I think if folk are happy with how we just plod along then that shows that they plus the board settle for bang average.

Again I'm not saying blow millions. Our owner has the cash to invest if not I'd like him to sell. Farmer is level headed so I'm sure a buyer would be out there. Something has to give FR. Look at our crowds! Football has changed dramatically since 80's and 90's. We have the foundations to now kick on. Sadly we lack what is needed most. The quality on the park.

I'm not having a go btw but can I ask wHat you think of the current board/owner and team. What you would do to improve it or would you settle for what we have?


im not sure Farmer will give us money.What would have happened if he had agreed and given money to calderclown and fenlon,they wouldnt know a good player if it bit them on the backside,so back to the drawing board again for Farmer,and more money.Hes to shrewd a businessman to put his money into football players

Shore Thing
20-03-2014, 10:09 PM
Here's what a good Hibby said 18 months ago - and he knows what he's talking about!!http://blog.grow-your-business.co.uk/performance-lessons-from-a-scottish-cup-humiliation/

Brilliant article that. I notice the author has offered his services to the club, but had not had a response at the time of writing.

I'm sure Hibs could benefit from someone carrying out a sort of independent 'performance audit'. Someone with knowledge and experience of what generally creates a high performing organisation.
A lot of what he says seems, to me, to resonate with (what I see as) TB's philosophy of positivity and hard work bringing results beyond what you could imagine.
I just fear that if the 'Hibs organisation' as a whole, is still anywhere near as far off the mark as we were back then (18% according to John Stein's criteria), then TB &co are going to be facing an uphill struggle all the way.

From the article:
"Hibernian Football Club scores (excuse the pun) 18% on our winning formula performance model criteria. An 80%+ score indicates you are a high performing organisation. They have a long way to go."

"Hibs like many organisations do not have a developed and agreed performance criteria in place and therefore do not possess the leadership and operational focus required to ensure its success. The leaders responsible for running the club have yet to accept that they have a performance problem back at the ranch."

I would like to know if this last statement still holds true. I suspect it does. We have a 'five year plan' dontcha know. And we aim to 'win as many games as possible'. And our target for each season is to finish in the top six (sixth place in other words).

emerald green
21-03-2014, 09:23 PM
The thing is, the managers are getting the cash they need. We still outspend most of the clubs in the league. But players just aren't performing in a Hibs top for whatever reasons.

But as you say, it's the same cycle of problems.

We turn up for a game in hope that something will be different this time, but it never really is any different. Even when we win a game now, I rarely ever walk away feeling enthralled with what i've just seen.

The football is bland at best. Very occasionally do we even get the basics of football right.

I don't believe that any of the players that we've brought into Easter Road in the last several years are anywhere near as bad as they had been performing while in a Hibs top.

I can't help thinking that there is something else going on, which prevents any player in a Hibs top, playing anywhere near their full ability.

The players don't seem capable of getting out of 1st gear. They actually look quite tired and unfit for purpose. But you just know that once they leave here and go somewhere else, they'll miraculously be able to step up their game again. They'll suddenly have pace, stamina and skill on a level that they just didn't have while playing for us.

There's something wrong within the club thats affecting the way that players approach the games on the pitch. But what could it actually be?

I agree with this post, particularly the bit "there's something wrong within the club". I've discussed this over and over again with lots of Hibs supporters. They all put forward their various theories as to what it is that's causing the malaise that's been hanging over the club for the last 6/7 seasons, but I'm none the wiser. Maybe it's not just one thing, but a combination of stuff, particularly a real lack of leadership both on and off the pitch? I might be wrong here, and I hope I am, but is TB starting to display the same sort of body language as previous managerial failures at ER? Sorry if this comes over as very negative. I just get so angry and frustrated at the way things are, and long for things to get better at the club. I don't expect us to win every week, but some of the s*** we've had to suffer for far too long is completely unacceptable. :grr:

GreenCastle
30-03-2014, 03:49 PM
Another missed opportunity today - add that to the cup game against them earlier in the season under Fenlon.

The Raith game was a disaster and today was another farce.

Higher up personnel at the club are killing it - Butcher not helping the situation making very strange team selection decisions.

WHUHibs
30-03-2014, 07:01 PM
Perhaps a bold statement to make but something is inherently wrong with a club that continues to under perform!

Why have we had so many managers over the last 12 years? Why do our players continually act like a spineless group when our backs are to the wall? Why is it so difficult to play attractive football? Why can we not find the jewels in our crown from East mains on a regular basis with such a superb facility?

Managers come and go, players come and go, board members come and go,,,the only people who are consistent in the demise of our club is Farmer and Petrie! I have been critical of them in the past but thought they have now gone for a good management team which I still believe to be the case given time. However, with all the talent we have sold and not reinvested back in the team has shown that we continually put out a team of spineless non performers who rarely are able to cut it at a crucial time!

A lot of posters state quite rightly they feel Rod has got it wrong in managers but has always backed them with bringing in players. Well on the face of it they may be right however, we need to look further into this. For example did we lose Sparky for money or perhaps he wouldn't have come anyway? Do we continually get players on wages that fit our structure or should we invest to earn in a better quality player?

There are always pros and cons in the above but one thing is for sure we have a spineless team who are probably the worst in my lifetime but we have been used to crap for so long we accept it.

Enough is enough and there is no justification for this long demise of our club which is slowly dying on its feet and one day we might find ourselves with a mausoleum of a stadium with empty seats that will never be used and an apathy of a future generation.

Great stadium, fabulous training centre, magnificent fans but a club run by people who think that it's acceptable to call us to arms to protect their investment and refuse to accept responsibility.

Let's not laugh at our neighbours demise when our club is being slowly strangled,,the focus should be getting our own house in order from top to bottom!

GGTH

147lothian
30-03-2014, 08:22 PM
Perhaps a bold statement to make but something is inherently wrong with a club that continues to under perform!

Why have we had so many managers over the last 12 years? Why do our players continually act like a spineless group when our backs are to the wall? Why is it so difficult to play attractive football? Why can we not find the jewels in our crown from East mains on a regular basis with such a superb facility?

Managers come and go, players come and go, board members come and go,,,the only people who are consistent in the demise of our club is Farmer and Petrie! I have been critical of them in the past but thought they have now gone for a good management team which I still believe to be the case given time. However, with all the talent we have sold and not reinvested back in the team has shown that we continually put out a team of spineless non performers who rarely are able to cut it at a crucial time!

A lot of posters state quite rightly they feel Rod has got it wrong in managers but has always backed them with bringing in players. Well on the face of it they may be right however, we need to look further into this. For example did we lose Sparky for money or perhaps he wouldn't have come anyway? Do we continually get players on wages that fit our structure or should we invest to earn in a better quality player?

There are always pros and cons in the above but one thing is for sure we have a spineless team who are probably the worst in my lifetime but we have been used to crap for so long we accept it.

Enough is enough and there is no justification for this long demise of our club which is slowly dying on its feet and one day we might find ourselves with a mausoleum of a stadium with empty seats that will never be used and an apathy of a future generation.

Great stadium, fabulous training centre, magnificent fans but a club run by people who think that it's acceptable to call us to arms to protect their investment and refuse to accept responsibility.

Let's not laugh at our neighbours demise when our club is being slowly strangled,,the focus should be getting our own house in order from top to bottom!

GGTH

Good point, I can't see us catching M'well and st johnstone while STF and Petrie are there because they are quite content to sit there and say we saved hibs, we built a great stadium etc etc, and think that shows how good they are, they are not football people so they can't take the club to the next level, and realise the potential of a big city club. Please don't say I want to spend millions, I don't I just want Hibs to be able to outbid teams like St Johnstone and M'well. I can't see that happening until we get rid of STF and Petrie, they have long past their sell by date IMO